EPTeSports is screwd?
Gretech and KeSPA Deadlocked - Page 7
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Mykill
Canada3402 Posts
eSports is screwd? | ||
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im a roc
United States745 Posts
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Mellotron
United States329 Posts
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
They didn't do jack shit for pro scene and it's community. I still find it unbelievable there has NEVER been a Blizzard OSL. Or even a donation. Even Prignles had a goddamn OSL Now they want to take it all down just so they can try to make more money from a shittier game. Which will probably fail miserably. And fuck Kespa too for that matter. | ||
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riboflavin
United States226 Posts
On June 09 2010 11:40 Mellotron wrote: Alright Kespa, you lose. Now save some face and go onto the next game, not float your buildings to the corner of the map and sit there afk. Finally, an analogy that fits! Well played, sir. | ||
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Mallard
United States129 Posts
On June 09 2010 11:53 Xenocide_Knight wrote: Fuck blizzard They didn't do jack shit for pro scene and it's community. I still find it unbelievable there has NEVER been a Blizzard OSL. Or even a donation. Even Prignles had a goddamn OSL You are right. They have done nothing. Besides, you know, creating the game in which the entire community and scene is based off of. But no, of course they don't deserve any credit for that. Why is it that Starcraft is being treated as some holy object that no laws or rules should apply to? If you replace Starcraft in this situation with a movie, or a television show, or music there would be no argument. There are laws protecting all these forms of created entertainment but for some reason everyone seems to think they should not apply to Starcraft. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
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Wargizmo
Australia1237 Posts
On June 09 2010 11:02 riboflavin wrote: However... The few valid arguments that I have yet to see anyone make are: Kespa has been broadcasting SC BW games long before Blizzard attempted to protect their IP. In cases of inventions and many types of IP if one does not make legitimate and timely effort to protect it, then they forfeit it. This ultimately means that corporations are legally compelled to sue anyone who infringes...not just the ones with money. It makes for some heartbreaking stories sometimes, but if they did not pursue even the small companies who infringe, then they open the door up for everyone to steal their IP-- as their lack of action will have allowed the notion that they failed to protect their IP previously, thus making it public domain. I was thinking along these lines when I heard they were giving Kespa until August. Legally if your IP rights are being infringed and you know about it aren't you supposed to give them an immediate cease and desist letter? not say "well we know you're breaking the law but we're going to let it slide for a few months while you wrap up your thing." This leniancy from Blizzard may end up costing them. | ||
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trulla
Chile303 Posts
On June 09 2010 11:53 Xenocide_Knight wrote: Fuck blizzard They didn't do jack shit for pro scene and it's community. I still find it unbelievable there has NEVER been a Blizzard OSL. Or even a donation. Even Prignles had a goddamn OSL Now they want to take it all down just so they can try to make more money from a shittier game. Which will probably fail miserably. And fuck Kespa too for that matter. I totally agree with you, and i'm pissed too. Anyway, we foreigners fans must make our voice be heard by Blizzard, going to blizzard forums and post about EVERYTHING we have been commentating here last weeks. Blizzard is fucking everything up!! | ||
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Mastermind
Canada7096 Posts
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
On June 09 2010 10:24 JustAnotherKnave wrote: Is Blizzard's contract with Gretech exclusive to South Korea, or is it the IP rights to broadcast internationally? this distinction I believe to be very important. If its for e-sports on the international level, why shouldn't kespa have to negotiate with Gretech? its not like Kespa has any intention of serving a public that isn't s.korea first and everyone else last. KeSPA is the Korean eSports Players Association. Their target audience is Korean viewers. All of their revenue comes from advertising and stuff inside Korea. Why on earth would they not put Korea first and everyone else last? Use a little bit of logic here... This is an issue about the Korean eSports scene, not the international eSports scene. KeSPA has nothing to do with the international scene (at least not directly). On June 09 2010 10:24 JustAnotherKnave wrote: Also, I'm not entirely sure as to the facts, but from what I've gathered is that at some point Gretech tried to broadcast some progames w/ korean players until hostile actions on the part of kespa forced an end to the venture - a venture that was for the primary benefit of the international community. The venture was not primarily for the benefit of the international community. They had English speaking casters behind the Korean ones, but that's about it. KeSPA refused to participate in it because it was sponsored by Blizzard and at the time, they were essentially going through the same nonsense they're going through now with Blizzard suddenly complaining about their IP rights being violated. GomTV was an unfortunate casualty in this mess of a situation, but that's how business works. Please don't act like KeSPA is somehow doing something to purposely screw the international community because it's not. On June 09 2010 10:24 JustAnotherKnave wrote: From my eyes, it seems kespa doesn't give a shit about anyone but S.Korea. Blizzard does not need to take knee to one lil xenophobic nation state. I say fuck 'em. Good move by Blizzard and I hope they have the litigation power to stop any childish attempts by kespa to continue to stand by their poor judgement and prevent the progress of E-sports globally. Again, it's obvious KeSPA doesn't really give a shit about anyone but South Korea because all of its business is conducted within Korea. Do you expect the NBA to care about its Japanese audience? How do you figure that KeSPA is somehow preventing the progress of eSports globally when they've got nothing to do with international competition anyway? Also, eliminating KeSPA does nothing to help eSports progress across the globe. If anything, it will probably stunt it by taking away a major organizing body in one of the largest eSports markets in the globe and eliminating some of the very few legitimate professional eSports leagues and teams. KeSPA and the Korean eSports scene are an example that eSports can actually work and can actually reach a certain level of professionalism. Are you suggesting that tearing that down would be a good thing for eSports globally? If so, please explain why it is you believe this would be beneficial at all because I really don't see how it can be. This isn't about Blizzard taking a knee to a "xenophobic nation state" (which I personally find offensive), but about Blizzard not being complete asses about a game they obviously don't care at all about. If they valued their IP rights so much, where the hell were they for 10 years while Starcraft was obviously being played, broadcast, and profits being made from it? Were they under a rock or something? They knew all about the pro-gaming scene in Korea and did nothing to stop it. All of a sudden now they are all concerned and coincidentally their next game is coming down the pipe in a month... I hope Blizzard/Gretech take this to court and get smacked by the judge to put them in their place because this is bullshit. I feel like Blizzard has seriously lost their way in their mad quest for money and control. Blizzard, go back to putting your heads down and making your games and leave the development of eSports to the community that actually cares about it. You've proven time and time again that you're absolutely horrible at managing these things anyway so please just stop trying... | ||
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trulla
Chile303 Posts
Blizzard is against e-sport. Let me explain why, and please forgive my bad english. Nowadays, videogame's enterprise is based not only selling the game, but also expansions and add-ons, so game developpers have profit long after the game first come out. These expansions and add-ons require changes to the game to make it more attractive to the ... Ver máscustomers. If you don't agree with me, please check how much traffic there is on these items on Xbox Live and PSN. On the other hand, e-sports must be based on games that are massively played (so there is a market for each game, this require that people don't have to pay every month for a new patch, add-on, etc), that don't change much after every patch (so gamers can develop strategies and techniques through time, just like the starcraft case). This is why Blizzard has made so much money on WoW and so little with Starcraft, being Starcraft the most awesome game of all time and that has been played for hundreds of thousand people for over 12 years. I hope i made myself clear, again sorry about my english | ||
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
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trulla
Chile303 Posts
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Ighox
Norway580 Posts
On June 09 2010 06:55 BookTwo wrote: why does blizzard want Gretech to have the rights to starcraft after seeing what kespa has done for it? because they don't care about sc1 anymore. Because Gretech negotiated with Blizzard instead of being like KeSPA and saying "fuck you, this is our baby and you won't fuck with our baby." But really, even if KeSPA gets shut down the BW scene won't simply go away. It's a MAJOR part of korean entertainment with a lot of fans, the fans will still be there without KeSPA, there will be a big demand for BW leagues without KeSPA and still a lot of money to be made. People will make deals with Gretech instead, if anyone really disbands there will always be people to take their place as long as there's money to be made and I don't really see how that changes. Personally I think it's great how Gretech is now in control, at least they've made an effort to run international leagues and english broadcasted korean leagues before and KeSPA were the ones who shut that down. I really do like the korean leagues, but I'm just 99% sure they will continue without problems even if KeSPA is not involved. (And didn't MBC already start negotiations with Gretech? That's probably just the first of many.) | ||
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L0thar
987 Posts
A: Blizzard created Starcraft. People bought Starcraft. People used it to create esports scene. Blizzards now wants money from the esports scene. B: Canon created cameras. People bought cameras. People used them to take pictures and sold them. Canon now wants money from the sellings. I'm not actually interested in stricly law discussion, more in the moral background. | ||
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Wargizmo
Australia1237 Posts
On June 09 2010 12:39 trulla wrote: same thing I posted on TL's facebook: Blizzard is against e-sport. Let me explain why, and please forgive my bad english. Nowadays, videogame's enterprise is based not only selling the game, but also expansions and add-ons, so game developpers have profit long after the game first come out. These expansions and add-ons require changes to the game to make it more attractive to the ... Ver máscustomers. If you don't agree with me, please check how much traffic there is on these items on Xbox Live and PSN. On the other hand, e-sports must be based on games that are massively played (so there is a market for each game, this require that people don't have to pay every month for a new patch, add-on, etc), that don't change much after every patch (so gamers can develop strategies and techniques through time, just like the starcraft case). This is why Blizzard has made so much money on WoW and so little with Starcraft, being Starcraft the most awesome game of all time and that has been played for hundreds of thousand people for over 12 years. I hope i made myself clear, again sorry about my english Except Blizzard have already started running tournaments through GOM TV and the game is not even out of beta yet, they obviously aren't anti-esports, they just want to be the ones calling the shots. Starcraft is Blizzard's second biggest selling game after WoW so they obviously haven't made "so little" with Starcraft. BTW a sport can have constant changes to it and can still be extremely popular and competitive as a sport. F1 motor racing for example is extremely popular in many countries and is constantly undergoing revisions and rule changes on a monthly basis. | ||
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Vec
United States69 Posts
A: Blizzard created Starcraft. People bought Starcraft. People used it to create esports scene. Blizzards now wants money from the esports scene. B: Canon created cameras. People bought cameras. People used them to take pictures of copyrighted material and sold them. Copyright holder now wants money from the sellings. | ||
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
All of the notable players in Brood War are under contract with KeSPA teams. This means that they can be prevented from participating in non-KeSPA events regardless of their own personal desire for the duration of these contracts. Given that GomTV got killed off by this same tactic, I don't see why KeSPA wouldn't employ it again if it came down to it. Unless you believe that professional Brood War can survive not having any of its star players for the duration of their contracts and suddenly jump back on its feet, then it would effectively mean the end of Brood War as I doubt many Korean viewers would be very eager to see a bunch of no-named B-teamers or worse playing in the leagues. Viewership would likely plummet, advertising revenues would drop, and it's unlikely that the scene would survive until the top players are freed from their contracts. Without KeSPA, Gretech really doesn't have anything to go on. They don't have the TV stations, they don't have the pro-gaming teams, and they don't have the players or even good casters (Gom's casters were horrible). They simply don't have the resources to preserve Brood War. In the end, this is not about Brood War anyway, but Starcraft 2. Blizzard could care less at this point about Brood War and it's clear that if it needs to be a casualty to further their control over Starcraft 2, they're willing to let that happen. On June 09 2010 13:02 Vec wrote: Adelarge, your analogy is a little off it should be as follows: A: Blizzard created Starcraft. People bought Starcraft. People used it to create esports scene. Blizzards now wants money from the esports scene. B: Canon created cameras. People bought cameras. People used them to take pictures of copyrighted material and sold them. Copyright holder now wants money from the sellings. Actually it would be closer to: A: Blizzard created Starcraft. People bought Starcraft. People used it to create esports scene. Blizzards now wants money from the esports scene. B: Spalding creates a basketball. The NBA the basketball. The NBA creates a tournament and sells broadcasting rights to stations that want to broadcast players playing with the basketball that they bought. Spalding now wants money for their product being broadcast in a profitable venture and also wants complete ownership of all broadcasts made that show a Spalding basketball along with ownership of all contracts of the basketball players. Don't forget throwing in the right for Spalding to audit the NBA whenever they want and also requiring the NBA to first receive approval from Spalding for any competition they want to hold involving Spalding basketballs. The concept of intellectual property and the extent of the rights a creator has to his property are not universal. In the USA and some other western nations, we're used to intellectual property laws being pretty strict and in some cases, downright unreasonable. The question comes down to what you are and are not allowed to do with the things you buy and what rights the consumer has as opposed to the creator. | ||
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trulla
Chile303 Posts
On June 09 2010 12:59 Wargizmo wrote: Except Blizzard have already started running tournaments through GOM TV and the game is not even out of beta yet, they obviously aren't anti-esports, they just want to be the ones calling the shots. Starcraft is Blizzard's second biggest selling game after WoW so they obviously haven't made "so little" with Starcraft. BTW a sport can have constant changes to it and can still be extremely popular and competitive as a sport. F1 motor racing for example is extremely popular in many countries and is constantly undergoing revisions and rule changes on a monthly basis. Yes, they want to take control of e-sports in korea where it is a profitable business, but not in other regions, that's why no crossrealm in bnet2.0. Anyway the way blizzard is fucking everything up with sc2 and bnet2, SCII will not have a massive competitive scene as SC:BW. I really don't think so. they haven't, that's why the game has already 2 expansions coming. changing the technology of the cars of course is a part of the competition on F1 because the teams are car producers and they want to take advantage from their own technology and research. I don't see any other sport where they change the rules every year (in games it would be every 2 months) | ||
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