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both sides have their reasonable arguments, both are right imo.
the problem is, bilzzard created this game, it all belongs to them.
It's the same with Diablo II. It all belongs to blizzard. All the items, all the characters, . . .
I hope I got both articles right:
Blizz gave the broadcasting rights for SC2 to GOM.
KeSPA wants the players not to compete there, like they did with Averatec Intel Classic.
KeSPA had the complete control, now Blizz wants a huge piece of the cake.
I am with Blizz at this point, and I hugely disagree with one point of KeSPA.
The most important part about eSports is the rights of the fans.
I say:
The most important part about eSports ARE the rights of the PLAYERS AND THE FANS.
As long as KeSPA treats the players (no real rights) like shit, I'm going with Blizz.
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Can someone clear something up for me? What's to stop KESPA from just saying "f*ck you" to Blizzard and broadcasting anyways? Do US patents apply in Korea, because I know of many IPhone knockoffs being produced and sold in China? And let's say they did take this to court: Who would be the arbitrator? There's no easy way to enforce intellectual property rights internationally.
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If KeSPA had't sold broadcating to Ongamenet and MBC game, this case wouldn't happen. I am with blizzard at this point.
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5003 Posts
Updated with text of the 3 questions asked by KeSPA
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On May 31 2010 15:49 Terakin wrote:
I respect what KeSPA has done for SC:BW, but I am behind Blizzard.
KeSPA doesn't give a damn about eSports outside S. Korea. Even when GOM attempted to bring SC to foreigners by hiring Tasteless and Daniel Lee, KeSPA made sure to torpedo that plan. Blizz has a vision for SC:BW and all their products to be as big in the rest of the world as it is in Korea. KeSPA has little or no ground to stand on. Yes, through their blood sweat and tears, they built an industry. Too bad they built it all on someone else's property. (1) Korean e-Sports Players Association (KeSPA) "doesn't give a damn about eSports outside of S. Korea". You are completely right about that point.
(2) Blizzard does have a vision for SC:BW - for it to be moved aside for its sequel. Blizzard does not seek to further promote BW to the rest of the world in 2010. But some of their other games - yes.
(3) I like your last sentence "Too bad [KeSPA] built [an industry] on someone else's property". It is true. I think most of TL would wholeheartedly agree with that statement.
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5003 Posts
added Blizzard's response. will be adding Gretech's response in a second
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kespa offered an amount of royalties too low for blizzard to accept, gomtv offered a much larger sum and negotiations are still open. blizzard won't need to negotiate with korean laws, but instead kespa will need to respect its own laws even if it doesnt respect overseas law.
you see the trick to this is to force kespa to negotiate with gom tv. there's actually no hindrance to this esports scene whatsoever.
kespa just needs to pay royalties of such an amount that it can entice gomtv to sell their rights as well to broadcast it. previously it was unethical as the higher ups in kespa made hundreds of thousands (equivalent in $US dollar). Wait one then can ask if kespa is a profit maximisation or non profit government organisation?
kespa is only willing to pay royalties such that they won't be the ones losing money.
Gomtv is willing to make a sunk cost high investment and in long run it will pay off.
kespa doesnt want to make any loss regardless whether the costs can be recouped over any time period horizon.
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United States33653 Posts
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On May 31 2010 13:22 Salv wrote:
Both of these bodies want money, KESPA has been greedy in the past, and Blizzard is now being greedy.... I have a hard time feeling sympathetic for KESPA.
Blizzard who are not qualified to run esports are trying to destroy BW and the current scene to make money whereas Kespa wants to promote and continue the scene for the same reason. Seems like an easy call to make, trivial matters like the PPP incidents shouldn't even come into it.
I'm far more inclined to trust Kespa at this point, especially as they have stated they will pay royalties, just not surrender control. All these questions/demands from Kespa seem reasonable as they are the ones asking for transparency in negotiations.
On May 31 2010 15:49 Terakin wrote:
KeSPA doesn't give a damn about eSports outside S. Korea
Blizzard doesn't give a damn about eSports.
I cannot believe the number of people on TL siding with blizzard trying to secure further SC2 sales through the destruction of pro-BW. It will likely be another wc3, there will be no professional league and esports will go back to the dark ages if Blizzard has it's way. Kotick is just looking to exploit the scene in the short term to sell a bunch of expansions.
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5003 Posts
rofl that's just hilarious
EDIT: Updated
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United States33653 Posts
On May 31 2010 12:45 Capook wrote:
Blizzard should say "talk to GOM kthx"
good call man, that's like exactly what they did within the next three hours >_<
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On May 31 2010 12:47 LunarC wrote:
The way Activision approaches any sort of business partnership is bound to screw over anyone that isn't Activision...
I'm with this man. Look at what activison did to the infinity ward guys after CoDMW2 came out. In case you didn't know, they found sketchy grounds to fire them so that they wouldn't be forced to pay them royalties for the CoD earnings. I'm with Kespa man what the fuck is blizzards problem?! They are just trying to mug the Koreans to get control of the e-sports market!
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On May 31 2010 14:02 Black Gun wrote:
imho blizzard is not interested in squeezing the korean bw scene. i personally interpret this move as the placement of a mine right underneath kespa´s ass so blizz is in a stronger position if kespa ever wants to interfere with the way blizz intends to handle and develop the sc2 esports market.
blizz could ruin kespa if they wanted to, but they wont. but by the possibility to do so, blizz basically holds kespa and the old korean esports scene by their balls, so that when blizz wants to do anything esports-related in korea, kespa is in no position to take away market share/money/influence from them.
imho this is a preparational move for setting themselves up to squeeze the max out of a potential sc2 esports scene.
this + it's only right to let them have all that money up until now, they did it on there blood sweat and tears and it started in there country, they are just doing what makes sense for sc2, and trying to get a good % out of sc1.
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we want to know why Blizzard did not mention Intellectual property rights up to 2006 even though they were aware of such events.
I really like this point. I think someone mentioned this in the GomTV/Blizzard contract thread. It's like they're reading TL.net! I really hope Blizzard resumes negotiations with KeSPA. Redeem your greedy asses of not caring about E-Sports and do the right thing Blizzard. Starcraft wouldn't have been this popular without what KeSPA started.
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On May 31 2010 16:19 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 13:22 Salv wrote:
Both of these bodies want money, KESPA has been greedy in the past, and Blizzard is now being greedy.... I have a hard time feeling sympathetic for KESPA. Blizzard who are not qualified to run esports are trying to destroy BW and the current scene to make money whereas Kespa wants to promote and continue the scene for the same reason. Seems like an easy call to make, trivial matters like the PPP incidents shouldn't even come into it. I'm far more inclined to trust Kespa at this point, especially as they have stated they will pay royalties, just not surrender control. All these questions/demands from Kespa seem reasonable as they are the ones asking for transparency in negotiations.
Yeah I also trust KeSPA to run things better simply because KeSPA makes money from e-sports and nothing else. Which means that KeSPA in the end only worries about keeping the fans watching by providing good tournaments/coverage and so on.
Blizzard on the other hand wanna sell games I doubt they consider e-sports more then a marketing tool.
I dont really consider any of these organizations "nicer" than the other but they got different markets and as an e-sport fan I prefer the one that is niched towards me.
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On May 31 2010 12:45 Capook wrote:
Blizzard should say "talk to GOM kthx"
Talk to the guys who's league you destroyed just because you were faggots and couldn't deal with some competition. I would love to see GOM humiliate Kespa in every way possible.
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"- The 12 Progaming teams to come together to "strongly oppose" Blizzard"
Does this statment hold for the opinions of the players, coaches etc as well? Or just the team managers?
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One thing I know for sure is that Blizzard has become a disgusting greedy monster.
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I too would love to hear answers to these very same questions KeSPA has, Blizzard. It's all too convenient that you don't even approach the Korean BW scene for all these years, and now you care so much right as you're planning to make/release SC2. The burden of proof is on you here.
I mean, KeSPA is being damn realistic. What, do you think you've lost potential sales from all the free advertisement they've given you? Do you think you've lost reputation based on the fact they've crafted a game you created into the only sustainable eSport so far? Are you really upset that your brand is now practically a household name in Korea?
Congratulations. You've made an organization like KeSPA sound this reasonable to even some of your biggest fans.
All this, and now your hubris continues to cloud all judgment. Do you really think bashing the very people who made you as popular as you've been in Korea is a good thing? Do you really think you can fight the powers that be in Korea, alienate tons of fans, and somehow have SC2 surpass BW? I mean, come on. You sign with an inferior host. Your new game has almost zero innovation and actually goes backward in time with it's lack of important features. You're fighting an uphill battle while SC2 is still in beta and showing it.
To be honest, KeSPA shouldn't even offer to pay you any royalties, because it's more than obvious what you're doing. You further the precedent on designers getting paid royalties despite not actually having to do anything, and your profits continue to increase. Now you can make the turnover on non-MMO games meet whatever insane demands for profit you and Activision have these days. It says a lot about your character to see that you're using the same logic the music industry does as far as profits go. Congratulations, you've officially joined the ranks of companies that have made IP rights seem like a terrible idea in practice.
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EPT
