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[OSL] Korean Air Starleague Final

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[OSL] Korean Air Starleague Final

Text byWaxangel
May 29th, 2010 22:20 GMT
[image loading]
Banner by SilverskY

[image loading]
Image by Keit



by WaxAngel and Kwark

As a long time fan of e-Sports, I was surprised at OnGameNet's mindset going into the Korean Airline Starleague final. The match-fixing scandal was of course, very serious, but I did not expect it would make OGN fear for the industry's very existence. In an episode of After Talk, the last hype opportunity they would have before the final, they made it clear that the final was a make or break event, its success a barometer of how much life e-Sports had left after being rocked by the scandal. As the de facto spokesmen for the company, the OGN announcers implored to the fans to be the strong foundation the industry needed in trying times.

It was inevitable that focusing on events outside the OSL itself would steal some of the thunder from the two finalists, but framing the final as critical juncture in the history of E-sports paid off big time for OnGameNet as they drew an incredible crowd to the main Korean Air hangar. Although there may have been some cynical decision making in appealing to the fans' sense of loyalty, the fans were given their due reward with the very best stage presentation in OnGameNet history.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ4hZPLXIng


In retrospect, it was rather fitting, considering there was a slim chance that this would be the last OSL ever. So for a little while the announcers yelled with all their might, and the fans cried back with all their heart, and the OSL final became something bigger than two finalists and their struggle, instead it was culmination and celebration of all things e-Sports.

And then we recovered our senses and remembered what the OSL is at its core: Two guys fighting for the right to say "I'm better than you."


Battle Reports
by KwarK

Game One - Match Point - VOD
+ Show Spoiler [Battle Report] +
Flash spawned in white at 1 while Effort got red at 7 on Match Point. Effort went for an early drone scout into 12 hat to stay safe from potential cheeses while Flash walled in with a fast refinery for a quick factory. Effort followed with the standard 12 hatch 11 pool 10 gas build, and had the very good fortune of being allowed to drone scout Flash's main as Flash lifted his barracks at just the right time. This was a case of map position based disadvantage (that would not have occurred in sc2) as Flash was at the top position where marines complete outside the wall. Effort got a good look at the building factory and scvs on gas count before Flash finally got rid of the drone.

Effort walled his natural against fast vultures since he scouted the factory, while Flash built a quick command centre at his natural. Effort teched to spire while Flash predicted this and went goliaths and valkryies. Mutalisks with scourge sniped the first two valks unsupported above Flash's natural cliff, and before we could see what would come of it, Flash typed "ppp" to request a pause.


After a pause to consult with the players, head referee Chang Suk Jun clarified the situation: "There was a problem where Flash's monitor suddenly turned off. We deduced that this is an issue with the broadcast equipment, and it occurred during the skirmish between the valkyries, mutalisks, and scourge. As it has affected the progress of the game, we rule that the game will be re-played."


Game one, redux
Flash spawned at 7 in brown while Effort took 1 in white on Match Point. Flash opted to wall in his choke at the standard timing while Effort went twelve hat with a very early drone scout for a potential proxy, aware Flash would like nothing more than to take a quick 1-0 with an eight rax bunker rush vs a 12 hat. Flash followed with a fast gas, factory and then took two scvs off gas while Effort's drone remained scouting his natural to try and rule out a quick command centre. In a ballsy move, Effort sent his overlord in to scout the refinery, knowing that Flash's single marine wouldn't be enough to kill it before it got back over the cliff. I love that kind of abuse of Flash's early low-marine style, stealing a little bit of scouting information that he'd otherwise lack.

Flash started a command centre at his natural, put scvs back on gas, pumped a single vulture before adding a machine shop and armoury. Effort knew that the wallin with a single marine and gas meant vultures, and he walled in his natural tight with a third hatchery, evolution chamber, hydralisk den and a sunken behind them. It proved to be very effectively when Flash sent three speed vultures to Effort's natural, as the choke was completely vulture-proof. Flash was still able to kill all the larva coming from the walling hatchery, another instance of positional imbalance at the top spot on Match Point.

Effort had gone for spire and mutalisks in the meanwhile, but Flash had clearly scanned the spire as turrets were going up all over his base and five goliaths awaited them in his main. Unfortunately for Flash, Effort made only three mutalisks before switching into pure hydralisks.

Effort went on the offensive with his hydralisks, expanding to 12 at the same time. Flash was not caught off guard however, as his vultures patrolling the area around 3:00 caught a glimpse of the hydralisks leaving the natural. Flash prepared his defences, a minefield, a bunker, goliaths, and scvs pulled away from the mineral line. Although Effort had placed an overlord far beforehand to deal with the mines, good SCV and goliath micro allowed Flash to block the attack easily, killing far more Zerg troops than he lost. In addition, a scouting vulture discovered the 12:00 expansion.

Knowing he was behind Effort attempted to power his economy while retaining the initiative by staying on the offensive. He expanded to 3 (which again was immediately scouted by a speed vulture) and prepared for a drop across the wall at 6. I love this play because Effort did not have the tech or the economy to break mechanic terran, all he had going for him was mobility. A drop immediately halts the momentum of the dropped player, forcing them to pull all their units to the back, putting them in a defensive mindset and letting them know that they absolutely must not overstretch their units. Ambitious expansions combined with drops is a beautiful play, so it was very unfortunate for Effort that Flash used his maphack like intuition and scanned the overlords and hydralisks massing at 6:00.

Despite being scouted Effort tried to drop anyway, walking into mass goliaths and losing an overlord before pulling back. Effort still pumped drones to saturate his two new expansions and added a queens nest along with two more hatcheries but it was the wrong time for it. If Effort could find the time to get all his investments fully functioning he would be unstoppable but he had no map control at all, as he had been simply sitting around looking at Flash's mech while Flash's vultures had been out hunting expansions, sniping drones and exerting pressure all over. Flash expanded freely to 9 and then unsieged and pushed out towards 12:00 with no resistance.

After the failed drop Effort realised he couldn't make it to hive before Flash pushed so he went into what I believe was his backup plan, queens. Flash's army moved towards 12, tanks sieging up on the high ground to cover the area below in a classic slow push, an absolute nightmare for hydralisks. Effort's hatcheries were only just beginning to start pumping and his queens didn't have the energy for broodling (it didn't help that Effort wasted some mana on parasite), as the attack was coming far too quickly. Effort threw hydralisks at the tanks in a desperate attempt to buy time, picking off a few of the tanks at the front but being slaughtered by the support fire from the high ground. Flash was using the classic technique of the slow push, a single vulnerable tank at the front taking free shots to force an engagement while the real firepower lurks further back. Effort couldn't get anywhere near the tanks on the high ground and threw away his entire hydralisk mass killing the vulnerable units to just try and buy time for the queens to kill the back tanks.

Finally the queens had the energy they needed and wiped out three of the most annoyingly placed tanks, leaving the front of Flash's mech vulnerable to mass hydralisks. Unfortunately there were no mass hydralisks coming, as too many had been lost in the delaying action. On the other hand, Flash had been macroing hard and reinforced his push into a tornado that easily swept 12:00. Effort tried a desperate switch into mutalisks but against 2-1 goliaths he could only snipe at stragglers before being forced into a bloody final engagement. After losing his main force, Effort GGed.


Effort was faced with a difficult choice in this game. If he rushed to hive he'd lack the economy to break Flash's defensive three bases and every second that passed he'd get further behind. If he went pure economy then he'd have an awful lot of hydralisks but upgraded tanks are capable of dealing with an awful lot of hydralisks. Effort tried to invest heavily in both and cover up the weakness with a drop, putting Flash on the back foot until he had swarm to support his booming economy. I believe the queen switch was a contigency plan prepared for the eventuality of an aborted drop. Effort knew he needed something to support his hydralisks but equally he knew he didn't have time to wait for hive tech, by the time it was complete Flash could have wiped out 12 and his natural from the low ground. A strong economy with queens was the best solution to the awkward situation.

Unfortunately for him broodling requires a lot of energy and Flash's push came too soon for that and Effort panicked and suicided his army into the tanks. As a Protoss player I can empathise with him a lot because it's a situation you see whenever a Terran pushes to hit just before stasis energy. Maybe he didn't know how deep the mech ball was but it was simply the wrong move. As we saw, when Effort finally had the energy to cast broodling he didn't have the units to support it and instead of a critical blow at the heart of the tanks causing the line to fold up and Effort to retake map control it turned into three dead tnaks. Queens don't do much damage, broodling only kills one unit. It can be amazing when the loss of that unit causes the army composition to break down, like sniping ht in ZvP or the killing the critical supporting tanks in ZvT. But it's pretty awful when you're just killing a unit out of spite. In the heat of the moment Effort forgot that, he concentrated so hard on buying time for broodling to complete before 12 fell that he forgot he needed an army to combine with broodling in order to create a victory. He succeeded, broodling was done in time to save 12 but without the hydralisks broodling didn't snowball into a rout.


+ Show Spoiler [Match Ratings] +
Kwark's Player Ratings
Flash: 4 of 5.
Flash's play was solid, confident and polished. His vulture scouting was excellent and while he was fortunate to run into the drop on his way to 5 that doesn't change the fact that he always had vultures on the map giving him awareness of what was going on. While it was nothing special he macroed well, made the units and hit the perfect timing and that's what he had to do.

Effort: 3 of 5.
Effort on the other hand showed some beautiful strokes. I loved the fake mutalisks into hydralisk break and I really loved the economy and tech investments while going drop, classic momentum play which is always wonderful to watch at the highest levels. It's a pity that Flash scouted both plays with vultures. Unfortunately in the panic that followed the failure of those gambits Effort's priorities failed, he couldn't have saved 12 and rather than accept that he deluded himself that if he could just buy time for broodling then that'd make everything alright. While I preferred Effort's play that mistake has to be reflected in the scores, it was just the wrong thing to do and I expect a starleague finalist to maintain a realistic grasp on the possible even under pressure.

WaxAngel's Match Rating: 3** of 5.
Comfortable victory for Flash, watch it if you like hydralisks impaling themselves on tanks.
**Notable Play: Someone tried to use queens in an important game.



Game Two - Eye of the Storm - VOD
+ Show Spoiler [Battle Report] +
Flash spawned at 5 in teal while Effort got red at 11 on Eye of the Storm. Effort again opted for really early scouting for a rather clever play. He sent out a drone on 8 population to scout the 7 o'clock start so he could 12 hat at the 9:00 neutral expansion knowing that Flash wasn't adjacent to it. I think he scouted 7 and went for 9 because of its narrow defensible ramp, and his drone went out at the correct time to 12 hat there. He followed it up with a third hatchery on 14 in his natural and despite Flash's rax FE, Effort's build was still more economically exploitative. Flash scouted Effort second and worked out it was three hat before pool from the timings, scouting first 12 then 9 to discover it.

Flash reacted with an incredibly fast ebay rushing out +1 and adding barracks without factories fOrGG style. By camping his marines in the choke between his main and natural he could delay his academy without making himself vulnerable to a mass speedling attack, and could go for a large marine attack at 9 before mutalisks hit. Flash pushed out with his first marines and medics and as the inevitable speedling counter went at the terran natural, it was wiped out by a bunker and firebats waiting for them. Flash's army crossed the map unopposed as Effort had been saving larva for mutalisks, hitting 9 just before they came out in a perfect demonstrating of timing. Unfortunately his +1 was about fifteen seconds behind the ideal mutalisk timing, and flash displayed some uncharacteristically poor micro with several of his marines running back and forth useless as the marines in front prevented them from shooting at the sunken colonies. Effort's mutalisks emerged just as the last of the sunken colonies were about to go down, and forced Flash to retreat. Not long after, the remaining marines grouped together with reinforcements and pushed towards 9:00 again. Effort had been on his way to try and harass Flash with his mutalisks, but the attack forced him to pull back to defend.

The marines at 9 again bugged on the ramp but Flash was able to brute force his way in after taking terrible losses, killing several drones before the mutalisks arrived. Unfortunately for Flash he was falling behind as Effort headed for hive in a strong position with his economy already established by the three hatcheries before pool build. Normally this map is difficult for a zerg to establish expansions on but Effort bypassed that by with his build which enabled him to safely sunken up 9 in time for attacks.

As he teched to hive Effort also got lurker tech, placing stop lurkers outside Flash's natural while expanding to the 7 main. 7:00 also has a narrow entry point which can be easily defended by lurkers, and by securing it Effort would give himself four gas hive which is the magic number in ZvT. Unfortunately for Effort, Flash predicted the use of hold lurkers and scanned their position before pushing out. His marines easily flanked and killed the lurkers in a single scan, giving Flash map control. Flash was fortunate again as Effort flew his remaining mutalisks over the marines in a bad spot, losing most of their number.

A dropship headed towards 7 but Effort was clearly very prepared for it, with a lurker already burrowed on the ideal drop site. Unfortunately Flash was prepared for Effort's preparations and scanned before dropping at a better spot. Flash microed very nicely against a lurker and Effort's remaining mutas, getting rid of them for good. Effort reinforced with two more lurkers, sunkens, and a nydus building, but with the dropship it looked like the nydus wouldn't have time to complete. However Flash was still on two command centres and at was out of scans at a critical moment, forcing the mnm to get back into the dropship.

Flash's army was finally equipped with vessels and tanks but his map control was worthless unless he could break one of Effort's expansions. Choosing to go for the highest value Flash crossed the map to Effort's natural but despite irradiating the first defiler, Effort's consume was done and Effort put down a dark swarm just in time.

Flash diverted his army to 9 while dropping Effort's main and despite the slaughter of the dropship force (all eight plagued) Effort couldn't defend 9 which inexplicably had no defilers or a nydus connection. Flash flew a command centre to 3 and started an expansion at 1 as Effort tried to take a fourth gas in the 8 natural. However Flash's science vessels refused to allow him to establish it, killing the defilers and lurkers and leaving it open to his mnm force.

With 8 destroyed Flash pushed into 7 but Effort had finally completed ultralisk tech and despite only having a few Flash's army wasn't yet equipped to deal with them, getting slaughtered. Effort responded with a big attack at Flash's new base at 1 where Flash was trying to begin his late game mass tank camping switch. Flash decided to strip the defences at 1 and load them into dropships for an attack on Effort's main. The trade was worse for Effort as Flash simply lifed his buildings at 1:00 while Effort's main was devastated by a large MMF drop.

Effort retook 8, 9 and built new hatcheries and tech structures to try and get back into the game, but Flash was relentless, attacking at 9 rather than retaking 1. An eraser hit the mineral line at 7 while the the main terran force crushed 9:00 again and headed to the 7 natural. With the vessel cloud increasing and irradiate constantly killing his units Effort realised he couldn't hold onto 7 and 8 and GGed.


Effort was never really allowed map control this game which is odd given he opened mutalisks and speedlings because usually they get a window. Despite having a very strong economy throughout Effort never really got the chance to put a lot of units in the middle of the map and I think there were two key points in the early game that stopped this. When Flash first pushed towards 9 Effort sent some lings for a counterattack that was utterly predictable and therefore futile. Flash had seen the lings outside his base, his army hadn't met them as it crossed the map, of course there would be two firebats in the choke. The absence of those lings meant the attack on 9 did significantly better than it would have done if there had been lings there. Also, the mutalisks didn't wipe out the mnm but rather forced their retreat. When the mutalisks first come out against rax fe is the zergs time to have map control because mutalisks and speedlings can be very dangerous to small groups of mnm. Effort missed marine kills and lost drone lives there. Second, when Flash attacked 9:00 again, Effort's mutalisks were away trying to counter-attack, making Flash's attack was way more successful and killed way more drones than it should have done. With his economy damaged when he should have had map control, and with no lurkerling phase before hive, Effort couldn't resist Flash's macro. He tried very hard to make it work, but a cool opening build can only get you so far.


+ Show Spoiler [Match Ratings] +
Kwark's Match Ratings
Flash: 4 of 5.
I've got to give Flash credit for hitting that mutalisk timing window so beautifully, that was pretty sick. His macro was as good as ever and his distinctive rax fe macro take half the map style was displayed at its best. If his +1 had been ten seconds earlier that'd be a 5 for the wow factor of combining three timings perfectly but without it the rest of his game was only at the very good level. 4/5

Effort: 4 of 5.
Effort's build was cute again and all the zerg fundamentals were there. Solid macro, micro and strategy with a few nice touches like the lurker anticipating the drop at 7. He had some bad luck again but still demonstrated a very strong game.

WaxAngel's Match Rating: 3.5 of 5
Effort was mediocre, while Flash showed some very strong, standard mid-late game TvZ.



Game Three - Fighting Spirit - VOD
+ Show Spoiler [Battle Report] +
Flash spawned in red at 11 while Effort got brown at 7 on Fighting Spirit. Effort opened with a blind 12 hat at his the 9:00 neutral expansion which was pretty unfortunate for him as it was adjacent to Flash. It might have been abusive against Flash's habit of only scouting naturals, but Flash double scv scouted and saw Effort's pool timing, worked out that Effort must have expanded somewhere else, and quickly scouted 9. Flash proceeded to 1 rax no gas FE, following it up with a quick academy and a second rax.

Effort rushed to two hat spire with two gas while pumping lings to apply pressure but Flash spread his marines nicely, used blocking buildings and held the line nicely. There was no way Effort was breaking into his natural with pure lings when the marines were safe behind a wall with scvs ready to support, making Effort's build pretty much allin. Flash's two rax were pumping mnm and it would all come down to whether two hat mutaling with barely a dozen drones could break it.

With his first two medics, Flash sent out his marines to get an idea of what was going on with his medics lagging about half a screen behind. Zerglings quickly surrounded the marines and slaughtered them, Flash even giving Effort some extra help by letting the zerglings get free hits on his force moving marines. Mutas followed up, and it was GG.

What more is there to say about this game. Effort was 0-2 behind and went for a bad allin that would in any normal game leave him kicking himself and saying "wtf I know better than that". In my opinion it was pure tilt play, the result of being 0-2 down in the OSL finals. I do not believe he was ever breaking Flash's natural and when he's got less total economy than Flash has on either of his bases that's obviously going to be a problem for him. The stars aligned and effort's prayers were answered when Flash suicided his marines. When a build only works because the opponent makes an unforced error, it's a bad build.


+ Show Spoiler [Match Ratings] +
Kwark's Player Ratings
Flash: 2 of 5.
Scan first next time bro. You're 2-0 up but let's not get cocky.

Effort: 2 of 5.
Terrible build, morally it should have been a loss, don't let the pressure get to you when you're actually pretty good at builds that work.

WaxAngel's Match Rating: 1.5 of 5.
Straightforward, one-sided game.



Game Four - Great Barrier Reef - VOD
+ Show Spoiler [Battle Report] +
Flash spawned in purple at 12 while Effort spawned in green at 4 on Great Barrier Reef. Effort's first overlord scouted to the center of the map, which was exactly where Flash's seventh and eighth scvs had gone to proxy rax. The rush was scouted and Effort's nearby scout drone was diverted to harass while Effort 12 pooled. Flash reacted by cancelling one of the barracks and starting a gas.

Effort's first six lings rushed to 12 but Flash had four scvs and three marines on the ramp, more than enough to defend without losses if you block off the ramp. Unfortunately Flash didn't seal off his ramp and lost two of his three marines needlessly. This allowed a later zergling scout to get in and see all around Flash's base while Flash could do nothing but watch as Effort expanded, powered drones, took a third hatch and went to lair.

Flash transitioned into a "fast" four vulture drop although he was so far behind from the opening that Effort's hydralisks completely flattened it for barely any losses. Effort's hydralisks moved up to Flash's ramp for a counterattack but Flash's mnm dissuaded them. Then in a very ballsy move Flash decided to go allin, taking his entire army into two dropships to hit Effort's main while the hydralisks were out of position, to try and do either a lot of damage while Effort recalled his troops or trade bases as Terran on an island map. If Effort had poked at the Terran defenses at all, the base trade scenario would have been likely as Flash left absolutely nothing to defend his main. Either Effort had some sick sense of star or Flash did a scan that betrayed his plans, as Effort sensed something and pulled his entire army back to his main base. Flash's two dropships encountered an overlord on their way to the base, but decided to go ahead with the drop anyway, not knowing that the hydralisks were almost all the way back. The drop was easily thwarted, with Flash having gained nothing.

Having lost his entire army the ramp was the only thing keeping Flash alive and he knew it. He was forced to play one base while Effort took his mineral only and switched into lurkers and lings. Flash tried some last ditch marine aggression, only to be eaten up by far more lurkers and lings than he could handle. GG.

I don't really like this map for proxy cheeses because there's only one place they can be done. Fighting Spirit is fun for the proxy 88rax because you do it above or below the middle depending on your start location (so it's closer to two and further from one main) which at least mixes it up a bit for scouting. Flash tried it anyway and the overlord went there and that was that. He attempted to play one base but with his awful ramp micro and his base scouted it wasn't happening.


+ Show Spoiler [Match Ratings] +
Kwark's Player Ratings
Flash: 2 of 5.
Flash tried a cheese when he's the superior player and the map isn't great for it. He microed awfully on the ramp which led to everything getting scouted.

Effort: 4 of 5.
Effort gave himself an easy win with his great decision to overlord scout center. It helped that Flash showed him his entire base, and Effort didn't do anything bad here which puts him on a three automatically. The sense of star block of the all-in drop pushes him up to a four. Effort had very little to do this game but what he did was competent I guess.

WaxAngel's Match Rating: 2.5 of 5.
Fatal, glaring micro mistake from Flash early on, with solid play by Effort all around to consolidate his lead.



Game Five - Match Point - VOD
+ Show Spoiler [Battle Report] +
Flash spawned in yellow at 7 while Effort got orange at 1 on Match Point. Flash decided to build his rax at the back of his main while Effort went 11 hatch in his nat. He followed it with a quick 10 gas 9 pool while Flash went for a blind 13 command centre. Effort macroed up to thirteen drones with gas and minerals for a quick lair and speed the moment the pool finished, then going pure ling. Flash bunkered his natural and made a second rax but he had no real scouting information and two hatcheries going pure ling have more production at their disposal than two rax.

Flash set himself up in a defensive position with SCVs plugging the gaps in his building wall, but he still had a very wide front to defend. When the zerglings attacked Flash made a critical mistake by selecting all of his SCVs and attack moving them, including the ones that were blocking the important gaps. Effort immediately ran through the holes in the wall and into the Terran main. Flash pulled SCVs and marines to deal with the zerglings in his main, but it meant that he left his front wall still unguarded. More speedlings flooded in through the front, and now Flash was in serious trouble. His solution was to pull every marine but one from the front to defend his mineral line, but it was already too late as Flash didn't have enough marines to protect his spread out base. Flash lost control of his barracks and GGed.

Effort's build would have been easily defeated by a hard wall rather than just blocking buildings and scvs filling the gaps. It worked because Flash didn't scout exactly what was coming which in turn happened because Flash went 13 command centre. It was obviously timed pretty well with the simultaneous speed and lair on pool completion but when it comes down to it, it was nothing more than a speedling allin. Flash lost this because he scouted too late to see what Effort was doing, because he went 13 command centre rather than rax FE and because he got distracted and unwalled his front.


+ Show Spoiler [Match Ratings] +
Kwark's Player Ratings
Flash: 1 of 5.
I didn't like his build. I didn't like his execution. Effort was lighting fires on his barracks but there's no excuse for breaking his entire defensive position to deal with that. He's better than this.

Effort: 3 of 5.What can I say? He made a load of lings and then won. I guess he didn't make any mistakes in doing it so he gets a 3/5 but I'd award Octzerg the same 3/5 if he beat Flash with it.

WaxAngel's Match Rating: 2 of 5.
Kwanrollllllleed.... by Effort.




Aftermath
Winner interview - translated by Lyriene
Coach interview - translated by themonkyguy

[image loading]


In the end the result was an upset, and one of the most unlikely nature. Few predicted Effort could win against Flash, and even fewer would have imagined he could have made it from two games down. But for Coach Cho Gyu Nam of CJ Entus, it was the most natural thing. Having mentored several past champions, Coach Cho knows how to coach with his brain, but also knows how to coach with his heart.

"All those predictions before the game are just cheap talk. Sometimes as you prepare for a game, you get a feeling that transcends the statistics. It doesn't happen often, but this time I felt it. When I saw Jungwoo in his seat after game four, I knew he was going to win it all."

"These were not ordinary games today. Down 0-2, I felt oddly calm. Maybe I'm just saying this because we won in the end (laughs). Instead of giving him any special advice, I just told him to talk with the other players about builds. There was no anxiety, or thoughts of defeat. I believed in Jungwoo."


And while all is right for an enlightened Starcraft sage like Coach Cho, the rest of us are again forced to repeat the cycle of samsara, where we declare the old world order dead and create one anew.

[image loading]


**Spoiler alert** The following assume the results of the Flash vs Jaedong MSL Final

The post Korean Air-Hana Daetoo world:
  • Effort officially has a legacy. What do I mean when I say legacy? A history of playing well with the meaningful achievements to back it up. Here’s a short list of careers Effort has surpassed with this win: everyone in the class of 2007 besides Flash, the six dragons minus TaekBaeng (Bisu-Stork), Sea, Leta, Light and all other proleague-only terrans, and Casy.

  • The Flash Bonjwa theory is dead. Die-hard followers of this school will continue to try and spread its teachings, but their discredited words will now go largely unheeded. Flash will have to be content with being merely “the best player in world.”

  • Lee-ssang domination has been dealt a severe blow. Although they will still be considered the two best players by most people, they no longer look as if they are heads and shoulders above the rest of the field. Their losses are no longer accepted as aberrations, they are analyzed as weaknesses.

  • There is now a contest for the #1 zerg spot. While Jaedong will be a slight favorite, there will be no resolution to the Effort versus Jaedong debate until the next Starleagues are well under way, or unless either player has an epic proleague failure in round five.

  • The fans’ love for Starcraft outweighs their disappointment at the match-fixing scandal. Both finals had huge turnouts of devoted fans, while the MSL has already found another sponsor for its next league. For CJ, the pain of Savior's betrayal has been somewhat assuaged by Effort's victory. To once again quote the wise coach Cho “The fans are angry, because they love.”


And that's another one for the history books. The TeamLiquid OSL team, signing off.


The winner raises the trophy to the crowd in a moment of shared euphoria. He then settles back numb and exhausted, basking in the cheers of the crowd as the reality of his victory begins to sink in...

I am thousands of miles away, sitting in front of my computer furiously typing away about everything that was wrong with the finals. Then I see this champagne-drenched kid standing alone on stage, smiling calmly at thousands of cheering fans... and moisture begins to fill my eyes.

Even after ten years, I am still surprised at the ability of the OSL to touch my heart. Please continue, again and again.


[image loading]

Image from todaykorea.co.kr
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AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
InTheFade
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1721 Posts
May 29 2010 22:24 GMT
#2
Effort should get a 1/5 for game one (re), and a 2 for game two.
But yeah. Entertaining nonetheless.
... Knowmsayin'?
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
May 29 2010 22:29 GMT
#3
amazing write up
great read
ty
cw)minsean(ru
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
May 29 2010 22:31 GMT
#4
"Here’s a short list of careers Effort has surpassed with this win: everyone in the class of 2007 besides Flash, the six dragons minus TaekBaeng (Bisu-Stork), Sea, Leta, Light and all other proleague-only terrans, and Casy."

No. This OSL was EffOrt very first decent performance in a StarLeague, wheres Casy had a good run in the OSL even before his winning season. EffOrt is up there with Mind - both had a difficult path to the finals, both denied bonjwa candidates.

Its up to EffOrt to prove his "legacy" you are talking about. For now he is just a really good player, who after seasons of sucking in the individual leagues, finally backed up his PL performance with a badge on his first good run.

Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
distant_voice
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Germany2521 Posts
May 29 2010 22:31 GMT
#5
I'm not a huge Flash fan, but he got robbed.
This is my truth, tell me yours!
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33388 Posts
May 29 2010 22:34 GMT
#6
On May 30 2010 07:31 disciple wrote:
"Here’s a short list of careers Effort has surpassed with this win: everyone in the class of 2007 besides Flash, the six dragons minus TaekBaeng (Bisu-Stork), Sea, Leta, Light and all other proleague-only terrans, and Casy."

No. This OSL was EffOrt very first decent performance in a StarLeague, wheres Casy had a good run in the OSL even before his winning season. EffOrt is up there with Mind - both had a difficult path to the finals, both denied bonjwa candidates.

Its up to EffOrt to prove his "legacy" you are talking about. For now he is just a really good player, who after seasons of sucking in the individual leagues, finally backed up his PL performance with a badge on his first good run.



casy sucked in teamleague, effort was incredible in 2009.

casy won an OSL where he avoided his worst matchup completely, effort played the best player in the world in ZvT, his worst matchup.
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Abenson
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada4122 Posts
May 29 2010 22:36 GMT
#7
Woohoo
Zerg power!
Mojawi)SoJu
Profile Joined April 2010
Korea (South)259 Posts
May 29 2010 22:39 GMT
#8
Great write up.
Sad that Flash didn't win
#1 김택용 팬 | #1 화승 오즈 프로게임단 팬 | 스타2 하자! | 나를 찢어갈겨 이 씨발놈아 왜 나를 미치게 만들어 니가 뭘 아는데?
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-30 02:42:06
May 29 2010 22:44 GMT
#9
Effort didn't win this OSL, Flash lost it : /
(edit edit: I guess he won the game on fighting spirit)

edit: and the idea that effort can actually challenge jaedong for #1 zerg spot is laughable
brood war for life, brood war forever
MelGibson
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada9 Posts
May 29 2010 22:44 GMT
#10
On May 30 2010 07:31 disciple wrote:
"Here’s a short list of careers Effort has surpassed with this win: everyone in the class of 2007 besides Flash, the six dragons minus TaekBaeng (Bisu-Stork), Sea, Leta, Light and all other proleague-only terrans, and Casy."

No. This OSL was EffOrt very first decent performance in a StarLeague, wheres Casy had a good run in the OSL even before his winning season. EffOrt is up there with Mind - both had a difficult path to the finals, both denied bonjwa candidates.

Its up to EffOrt to prove his "legacy" you are talking about. For now he is just a really good player, who after seasons of sucking in the individual leagues, finally backed up his PL performance with a badge on his first good run.



Effort was rookie of the the year...wiht over 100 games and 68% winrate
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 22:49:59
May 29 2010 22:47 GMT
#11
On May 30 2010 07:34 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2010 07:31 disciple wrote:
"Here’s a short list of careers Effort has surpassed with this win: everyone in the class of 2007 besides Flash, the six dragons minus TaekBaeng (Bisu-Stork), Sea, Leta, Light and all other proleague-only terrans, and Casy."

No. This OSL was EffOrt very first decent performance in a StarLeague, wheres Casy had a good run in the OSL even before his winning season. EffOrt is up there with Mind - both had a difficult path to the finals, both denied bonjwa candidates.

Its up to EffOrt to prove his "legacy" you are talking about. For now he is just a really good player, who after seasons of sucking in the individual leagues, finally backed up his PL performance with a badge on his first good run.



casy sucked in teamleague, effort was incredible in 2009.

casy won an OSL where he avoided his worst matchup completely, effort played the best player in the world in ZvT, his worst matchup.


if only 5 out of 24 players were protoss, its not casy's fault that he missed the statistical probability of facing an opponent in his worst MU. Its undeniable that Casy's tvp was always utter crap, but he wasnt called the Neo-Emperor for no reason. All EffOrt's nicknames, by which I mean Messiah, were labeled to him by Hot_bid the CJ fans who recognized in him the next(Z)sAviOr, and I feel people are overreacting to his achievements yet again. Not to take anything away from him, the kid won the OSL in a fantastic manner, but I wouldnt take him out of the obvious parallel with (T)Mind even for a minute.

Speaking of EffOrt's legacy at this point is rediculous. Its like comparing a talented and young poker player, who just won his first bracelet, with Phil Helmuth. We all know that the second bracelet is the hardest to win.
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3016 Posts
May 29 2010 22:57 GMT
#12
On May 30 2010 07:47 disciple wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2010 07:34 Waxangel wrote:
On May 30 2010 07:31 disciple wrote:
"Here’s a short list of careers Effort has surpassed with this win: everyone in the class of 2007 besides Flash, the six dragons minus TaekBaeng (Bisu-Stork), Sea, Leta, Light and all other proleague-only terrans, and Casy."

No. This OSL was EffOrt very first decent performance in a StarLeague, wheres Casy had a good run in the OSL even before his winning season. EffOrt is up there with Mind - both had a difficult path to the finals, both denied bonjwa candidates.

Its up to EffOrt to prove his "legacy" you are talking about. For now he is just a really good player, who after seasons of sucking in the individual leagues, finally backed up his PL performance with a badge on his first good run.



casy sucked in teamleague, effort was incredible in 2009.

casy won an OSL where he avoided his worst matchup completely, effort played the best player in the world in ZvT, his worst matchup.


if only 5 out of 24 players were protoss, its not casy's fault that he missed the statistical probability of facing an opponent in his worst MU. Its undeniable that Casy's tvp was always utter crap, but he wasnt called the Neo-Emperor for no reason. All EffOrt's nicknames, by which I mean Messiah, were labeled to him by Hot_bid the CJ fans who recognized in him the next(Z)sAviOr, and I feel people are overreacting to his achievements yet again. Not to take anything away from him, the kid won the OSL in a fantastic manner, but I wouldnt take him out of the obvious parallel with (T)Mind even for a minute.

Speaking of EffOrt's legacy at this point is rediculous. Its like comparing a talented and young poker player, who just won his first bracelet, with Phil Helmuth. We all know that the second bracelet is the hardest to win.


But they didn't compare him to "Phil Hellmuth". They compared Effort to a bunch of guys who'd essentially won 0 or 1 bracelets as well (to go with your analogy).

IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32274 Posts
May 29 2010 23:01 GMT
#13
On May 30 2010 07:44 Crunchums wrote:
Effort didn't win this OSL, Flash lost it : /

edit: and the idea that effort can actually challenge jaedong for #1 zerg spot is laughable


boo hoo
Moderator<:3-/-<
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36375 Posts
May 29 2010 23:05 GMT
#14
On May 30 2010 07:47 disciple wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2010 07:34 Waxangel wrote:
On May 30 2010 07:31 disciple wrote:
"Here’s a short list of careers Effort has surpassed with this win: everyone in the class of 2007 besides Flash, the six dragons minus TaekBaeng (Bisu-Stork), Sea, Leta, Light and all other proleague-only terrans, and Casy."

No. This OSL was EffOrt very first decent performance in a StarLeague, wheres Casy had a good run in the OSL even before his winning season. EffOrt is up there with Mind - both had a difficult path to the finals, both denied bonjwa candidates.

Its up to EffOrt to prove his "legacy" you are talking about. For now he is just a really good player, who after seasons of sucking in the individual leagues, finally backed up his PL performance with a badge on his first good run.



casy sucked in teamleague, effort was incredible in 2009.

casy won an OSL where he avoided his worst matchup completely, effort played the best player in the world in ZvT, his worst matchup.


if only 5 out of 24 players were protoss, its not casy's fault that he missed the statistical probability of facing an opponent in his worst MU. Its undeniable that Casy's tvp was always utter crap, but he wasnt called the Neo-Emperor for no reason. All EffOrt's nicknames, by which I mean Messiah, were labeled to him by Hot_bid the CJ fans who recognized in him the next(Z)sAviOr, and I feel people are overreacting to his achievements yet again. Not to take anything away from him, the kid won the OSL in a fantastic manner, but I wouldnt take him out of the obvious parallel with (T)Mind even for a minute.

Speaking of EffOrt's legacy at this point is rediculous. Its like comparing a talented and young poker player, who just won his first bracelet, with Phil Helmuth. We all know that the second bracelet is the hardest to win.

lol I don't think I ever said Effort was going to win as many titles or have as successful a career (well before the cheating) as Savior. I never called him the Messiah.

If you read my posts after his OSL win, it was mostly happiness that we CJ fans could celebrate something after Effort's huge slump and Savior's horrible betrayal. I don't think I overreacted at all, and I've always maintained that JD's achievements career wise made him the best Zerg ever.

However, that doesn't mean we can't compare Effort and his legacy at this point in time, especially since its so very relevant given what's been happening with Savior and Effort's history with CJ. Nobody is saying Effort's guaranteed to win even just a second title at all. You're reading far too much subtext into what people say.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 23:07:56
May 29 2010 23:06 GMT
#15
On May 30 2010 07:57 darktreb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2010 07:47 disciple wrote:
On May 30 2010 07:34 Waxangel wrote:
On May 30 2010 07:31 disciple wrote:
"Here’s a short list of careers Effort has surpassed with this win: everyone in the class of 2007 besides Flash, the six dragons minus TaekBaeng (Bisu-Stork), Sea, Leta, Light and all other proleague-only terrans, and Casy."

No. This OSL was EffOrt very first decent performance in a StarLeague, wheres Casy had a good run in the OSL even before his winning season. EffOrt is up there with Mind - both had a difficult path to the finals, both denied bonjwa candidates.

Its up to EffOrt to prove his "legacy" you are talking about. For now he is just a really good player, who after seasons of sucking in the individual leagues, finally backed up his PL performance with a badge on his first good run.



casy sucked in teamleague, effort was incredible in 2009.

casy won an OSL where he avoided his worst matchup completely, effort played the best player in the world in ZvT, his worst matchup.


if only 5 out of 24 players were protoss, its not casy's fault that he missed the statistical probability of facing an opponent in his worst MU. Its undeniable that Casy's tvp was always utter crap, but he wasnt called the Neo-Emperor for no reason. All EffOrt's nicknames, by which I mean Messiah, were labeled to him by Hot_bid the CJ fans who recognized in him the next(Z)sAviOr, and I feel people are overreacting to his achievements yet again. Not to take anything away from him, the kid won the OSL in a fantastic manner, but I wouldnt take him out of the obvious parallel with (T)Mind even for a minute.

Speaking of EffOrt's legacy at this point is rediculous. Its like comparing a talented and young poker player, who just won his first bracelet, with Phil Helmuth. We all know that the second bracelet is the hardest to win.


But they didn't compare him to "Phil Hellmuth". They compared Effort to a bunch of guys who'd essentially won 0 or 1 bracelets as well (to go with your analogy).


Indeed, but he put EffOrts current achievements above Casy's. For sure Casy wasnt a dominant player, just like EffOrt he was hardly even the best player of his generation, but the Neo-Emperor cemented his place in the BW history and create "a legacy" if I can keep using this word for a different reason. The statement that EffOrt is above all proleague Terrans is completely accurate and if you exclude Casy from it I would agree completely with it
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
Mykill
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada3402 Posts
May 29 2010 23:06 GMT
#16
yeahh go Effort!
go CJ!!! Savior isnt going to ruin esports though im still a savior fan
[~~The Impossible Leads To Invention~~] CJ Entusman #52 The problem with internet quotations is that they are hard to verify -Abraham Lincoln c.1863
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36375 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 23:08:51
May 29 2010 23:07 GMT
#17
The Effort vs Casy debate is not even close.

But I completely understand the bitterness, haters keep on hating, even in a well balanced article such as this one.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 23:15:58
May 29 2010 23:10 GMT
#18
On May 30 2010 08:07 Hot_Bid wrote:
The Effort vs Casy debate is not even close.

But I completely understand the bitterness, haters keep on hating, even in a well balanced article such as this one.


Yes, ppl are hating on Casy for 4 years now.

You sure know I dont give a f...damn about Flash. EffOrt won his title fare and square, it was deeply impressive, but some of the statements and the judgement about EffOrt's achievement are imho a bit too extreme. Won a title, good for him
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32274 Posts
May 29 2010 23:13 GMT
#19
EffOrt's lowest match up is ZvT and he's 57.14% in it, and he just beat the best terran in the world in a bo5.

Casy's worst match up is TvP and he's 25.45% in it. He only has 1 match up above 50%.

Not even close lol
Moderator<:3-/-<
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36375 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 23:19:38
May 29 2010 23:15 GMT
#20
On May 30 2010 08:10 disciple wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2010 08:07 Hot_Bid wrote:
The Effort vs Casy debate is not even close.

But I completely understand the bitterness, haters keep on hating, even in a well balanced article such as this one.


Yes, ppl are hating on Casy for 4 years now.

You sure know I dont give a f...damn about Flash. EffOrt won his title fare and square, it was deeply impressive, but some of the statements and the judgement of EffOrt's achievement are imho a bit too extreme. Won a title, good for him

why do you feel the need to tear down people celebrating a player they like? is it really that necessary for you to come in and say "won a title good for him" brushing it aside so trivially, like its some sort of crime that we are happy our kid won after such a horrible cheating scandal from CJ's most decorated player against someone who was considered unbeatable making 4 straight starleague finals? are we wrong to feel happy and excited and react in such a way? isn't this what real fans do?

disciple, its interesting that your fandom of bisu so very closely mirrors mine with savior. both players rose so high, and savior fell so much harder than bisu did. and now that bisu is just having a few struggles, you seem so bitter and angry as a BW fan. it reminds me a lot of how i was when savior was "slumping" or i guess cheating during those years after shinhan3. it sucked. it was frustrating. i kept waiting, and he never came back. there was a lot of expectation adjustment -- at one point i was just happy for him to make a starleague.

with the way progaming careers go, its just much better and healthier to be a fan of a team rather than a player. but that is the problem with SK Telecom -- they haven't home grown a kid to replace Bisu and aren't even close to it. For CJ, it was very easy for me start loving the awesome young players they have. Even outside of Effort -- Snow, Movie, Skyhigh, all have their faults but are all very likable and stylish guys.

SKT on the other hand has only fantasy, who has been mediocre at best after his run of silvers. They really need to home grow some new Ps, because there is a certain historical and emotional disconnect between just buying players -- (ex: fail july, fail gorush, etc). I can't believe I'm saying this, but if I were an SKT fan, I'd love their Zergs, who have really been quite under appreciated recently.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 23:31:10
May 29 2010 23:28 GMT
#21
lol I dont want to spoil your party, sorry if Im doing so with my negativism. I dont dislike EffOrt, I even find him charismatic in some way, I really understand why a genuine CJ fan would support him. I'm happy your guy won, but it sort of bothers me that you and the writer of this article are disregarding Casy's career in such a manner. The guy is sure one of the BW legends and as sheer quantity of memorable moments he produced, EffOrt is way behind him. You have all the statistics to back your words about EffOrt being the better player of the two, but putting Casy right next to the other "insignificant" proleague terrans is unjust.

I can see why you are talking about EffOrt's legacy from your CJ fanboy perspective, but on the larger scale, he has a plenty more to achieve.

And if I'm indeed following your evolution as a savior fan, I hope I could be as awesome as you are some day
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36375 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 23:36:10
May 29 2010 23:34 GMT
#22
rofl you mean you will feel empty and lost when it comes out bisu has been throwing games this whole time??

savior fans have effort, boxer fans have fantasy, oov fans have flash (sort of), nada fans have baby, all with their little quirks that make them so similar. bisu needs a little brother, a mini-bisu on skt or his slump is going to kill his fans.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33388 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 23:40:19
May 29 2010 23:35 GMT
#23
I can't believe you remember casy as a great player. He had really good TvZ for 8 months which won him a starleague, besides that he was extraordinarily mediocre at everything he played in.

Casy is a fan favorite old-school player, not a legend. Kind of like rainbow, or Pusan.
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
pR0gR4m3R
Profile Joined February 2008
Spain1446 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 23:39:53
May 29 2010 23:35 GMT
#24
There is now a contest for the #1 zerg spot. While Jaedong will be a slight favorite, there will be no resolution to the Effort versus Jaedong debate until the next Starleagues are well under way, or unless either player has an epic proleague failure in round five.


Mid-2009, when EffOrt reached a 23-5 record, or alike, that debate was open but people didnt realize. EffOrt´s ZvZ was much way better in that time, although now the #1 zerg is more open to competition with ZerO or Calm

Btw, as a BIG EffOrt´s fan, I still dont see the legacy unless he gets another title. CJ is now on fire for the Proleague playoffs, and the best of all is that Iris is going better, snow is a nice addition, and hope Skyhigh and Movie get into shape as soon as possible
StarCraft-ESP.com Admin - Spanish StarCraft Community
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36375 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 23:41:55
May 29 2010 23:39 GMT
#25
On May 30 2010 08:35 pR0gR4m3R wrote:
Show nested quote +
There is now a contest for the #1 zerg spot. While Jaedong will be a slight favorite, there will be no resolution to the Effort versus Jaedong debate until the next Starleagues are well under way, or unless either player has an epic proleague failure in round five.


Mid-2009, when EffOrt reached a 23-5 record, or alike, that debate was open but people didnt realize. EffOrt´s ZvZ was much way better in that time, although now the #1 zerg is more open to competition with ZerO or Calm

I think the time period you're searching for is April to July 2009, when Effort went:

Record: 49 wins - 11 losses (81.67%)
ZvZ 15-5 (3-1 vs JD)
ZvT 22-3 (1-1 vs Flash)
ZvP 12-3 (1-0 vs Stork, 0-1 vs Bisu)

...followed by four wins in proleague playoffs, including several in super-ace matches
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 23:47:54
May 29 2010 23:43 GMT
#26
On May 30 2010 08:35 Waxangel wrote:
I can't believe you remember casy as a great player. He had really good TvZ for 8 months which won him a starleague, besides that he was extraordinarily mediocre at everything he played in.


If by "great player" you mean a memorable and significant figure, who made his own impact on the professional starcraft scene, then this is pretty much the image I have about Casy in my head.

Mocking Casy about his rubbish PvT is like making fun of J'Lo's huge ass - at some point it just becomes a defining feature, besides his obvious qualities which you've pointed out- his great TvZ and incredible mnm control
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
pR0gR4m3R
Profile Joined February 2008
Spain1446 Posts
May 29 2010 23:43 GMT
#27
Thx for the data, HotBid.

In that period he pushed CJ to PL playoffs, got over Stork in the final ACE match in a memorable match at Outsider
StarCraft-ESP.com Admin - Spanish StarCraft Community
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
May 29 2010 23:50 GMT
#28
On May 30 2010 07:44 Crunchums wrote:
Effort didn't win this OSL, Flash lost it : /


People like you are so freakin delusional, I dont know what to think about it anymore.
beep boop
Rkie
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States1278 Posts
May 30 2010 00:05 GMT
#29
yeah Effort!
He played amazing in the last 3 sets and it showed especially when flash kind of slacked for being up 2-0
p14c
Profile Joined May 2010
Vatican City State431 Posts
May 30 2010 00:14 GMT
#30
Its funny how people already started proclaiming this the end of Flash. Even Jaedong thought Flash is no longer what it used to be... People that think Effort is a better player than Flash are delusional.
Game Over, Man! Game Over!
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
May 30 2010 00:21 GMT
#31
Thanks for all the coverage this season!

I remember seeing those maphack scans from Flash and just laughing like "what the fuck."

I wanted Effort to win you see.
snowdrift
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
France2061 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-30 00:47:21
May 30 2010 00:40 GMT
#32
I can't believe this thread has been derailed into Effort vs Casy but whatevs

Game Three - Fighting Spirit

Kwark's Player Ratings
Effort: 2 of 5.
Terrible build, morally it should have been a loss, don't let the pressure get to you when you're actually pretty good at builds that work.


Oh come on! "Morally"? I've read "undeserved," "dirty zerg," but now a moral argument? rofl
NaDa. Our Lord and sAviOr shall return. Learn to nydus you scrub
King K. Rool
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada4408 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-30 00:51:38
May 30 2010 00:50 GMT
#33
Seeing Effort win was so great for a CJ fan, especially in light of the past few seasons. A slew of silvers and a loss in the proleague playoffs that left us gasping and wanting. Effort was the one we thought would take over the throne. His run in 2009 was unbelievable; we were hoping for a MSL finals and thought his win over Iris would take him to a ZvT finals with Flash. Then that spark seemed to have gone - his ZvT and ZvZ plummeted, and some of us were left wondering what happened and if he would just end up being another very solid player that would never win a SL.

We still wished and hoped.

Then Effort seemed to come a bit out of his slump. His game vs Fantasy was messy, but it showed some of that great late game play and multitasking that he had; he had been teetering on a knife's edge, and was falling before; but this time he held. He managed to get out of those tiebreakers and our hope was revitalized. We all had our doubts, but he managed to overcome it. Then a couple lucky matchups coupled with good play led him through Zero and Kal. The proleague game vs Flash made our hearts flutter with excitement. Faking Flash out and then riding that out, we all hoped that he would show the same level of play during the finals.

The finals came. I voted for Effort and thought he would win, but there was always that logical part of me that told me "Don't get your hopes up, Flash is the best TvZ player in the world". Then he went down 0-2. That logical part of me grew louder - how could Flash lose TvZ 3 times in a row? Effort's play was a bit messy and seemed nervous. But I still prayed and dreamed.

Game 3 those zerglings caught those first few marines and my heart started beating faster. Then the mutas came and forced a GG.

Game 4 Flash's SCVs left for the proxy and I started to worry. Then I saw that Effort had sent his OV into the middle. I felt giddy with renewed hope. He played pretty much perfectly after, blocking all of Flash's attacks. Only one more game!

Game 5 came, I saw them splitting SCVs and thought "well I can't hold it in any longer". I sat there on the toilet praying for both Effort winning and a fast dump. I get back to my room to see the game was over. My mind was blank and it takes me a moment to recognize Kim Jung Woo's triumphant face on my screen. I let out a shout of joy as one of my prayers came true that early morning while the sun was barely up, as the hope of all us CJ fans was realized.



A bit dramatic compared to the real thing (wearing nothing but boxers and a CJ shirt, eyes tired from the lack of sleep and crumbs on my mouth from a morning snack ) but nonetheless one of the happiest moments for me as a SC fan.

This'll give CJ that injection of confidence! We'll win that Proleague yet.
luckybeni2
Profile Joined October 2008
Germany1065 Posts
May 30 2010 00:52 GMT
#34
On May 30 2010 08:34 Hot_Bid wrote:
rofl you mean you will feel empty and lost when it comes out bisu has been throwing games this whole time??

savior fans have effort, boxer fans have fantasy, oov fans have flash (sort of), nada fans have baby, all with their little quirks that make them so similar. bisu needs a little brother, a mini-bisu on skt or his slump is going to kill his fans.

Really sad to see Stork and Bisu slumping. I just do not trust Kal or Free to hold up and win a title although they are awesome players. Protoss sadly is pretty weak at the moment. Well at least Both stork and bisu made their comebacks so we can still hold our hopes high(remember the time when people thought Best and Jangbi would take their places?)
Anyway a mediocre Final. It wasn't really good but in recent history we had to witness so many really bad ones that it seems ok. I just hope next OSL will be good.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
May 30 2010 00:54 GMT
#35
Haha wow, this article is trying way too hard to posit Effort as amazing. He deserved the win but the whole ground breaking latter section is pretty laughable.
Remember Violet.
XFire
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States131 Posts
May 30 2010 00:58 GMT
#36
On May 30 2010 09:21 cgrinker wrote:
Thanks for all the coverage this season!

I remember seeing those maphack scans from Flash and just laughing like "what the fuck."

I wanted Effort to win you see.


I know, I was like "how the hell did he know to scan there?" But... That's Flash for ya.

Effort ftw. ^^
darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3016 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-30 01:24:43
May 30 2010 01:20 GMT
#37
Personally, I'm really hopeful that Effort and Movie's success spurs Skyhigh to work harder than before. I feel like he's still really far from maxing out on his potential, but he's still young and I get the impression that he hasn't been serious enough about taking his game to the next level.

Edit: I also can't believe this Casy vs Effort thing. Somehow Effort's 3 month slump made everyone think he's been terrible for his entire career or something. Effort was really, really fucking good in 2009! He was a top 5 player for half the year, briefly in the conversation for #1 Zerg, and absolutely annihilated every Terran other than Flash and pretty much every Protoss for the last 9 months. This isn't meant to demean Casy's career but now that Effort also has an OSL he's simply had a better career, already.
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33388 Posts
May 30 2010 01:22 GMT
#38
love the effort hate, keep piling it on folks
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-30 01:29:24
May 30 2010 01:28 GMT
#39
I actually like Effort but that doesn't make the article trying really hard to glorify him less silly. :>
Remember Violet.
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33388 Posts
May 30 2010 01:30 GMT
#40
I wasn't talking to you specifically =o
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
pyr0ma5ta
Profile Joined May 2010
United States458 Posts
May 30 2010 01:31 GMT
#41
Lies, Effort didn't deny Flash bonjwa status. Flash denied himself bonjwa status. Why 13cc D: D: D: FML.
"I made you a zergling, but I eated it." - Defiler
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
May 30 2010 01:31 GMT
#42
But I'm still critical of your article! Surely that means you lump me in with the regular masses!

>:[
Remember Violet.
Yuusha
Profile Joined December 2009
Japan34 Posts
May 30 2010 01:35 GMT
#43
great read, thanks for the article
Inkblood
Profile Joined February 2010
United States463 Posts
May 30 2010 01:40 GMT
#44
On May 30 2010 08:34 Hot_Bid wrote:
savior fans have effort, boxer fans have fantasy, oov fans have flash (sort of), nada fans have baby, all with their little quirks that make them so similar. bisu needs a little brother, a mini-bisu on skt or his slump is going to kill his fans.


Very interesting, I'd never thought about players like Nada and Baby like that. But when you point it out, it does make sense. Oh, and even though I'm not particularly fond of Bisu, a mini-Bisu would be pretty cool.

Congratulations to Effort on the win.
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
May 30 2010 01:48 GMT
#45

There is now a contest for the #1 zerg spot.

Really ?
No, really ?
I'm sorry, CJ fanboys, but I still like sAviOr way more than EffOrt. His play was inspiring. I see nothing of his spark here, just Flash being nervous, and failing at mind games, while game 2 clearly showed he did not need to try his luck. Nerves I'd say.
For me Jaedong is still miles ahead, and I think he would be the more favoured player by far against anyone.
Very good battle reports though, and I did appreciate the article, even if I don't agree with some parts =)
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
Von
Profile Joined May 2009
United States363 Posts
May 30 2010 01:49 GMT
#46
Somebody has to say it:

I'm a Flash fan, seems like a good kid from what I can see.

But what player of his caliber goes 13 CC in the final match of the OSL championship on a two player map.

It is not sacrilege to suggest the possibility that - with the understanding that the future of Korean SC and Kespa now in doubt, and the possibility of the country going to war, the kid decided to follow his friends and fix the finals for a hefty sum.

Although nobody wants to entertain this, he might be thinking about his future and the future of his family and decided to take the cash.

13 CC? C'mon ...

.
If its not fun I dont want it.
darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3016 Posts
May 30 2010 02:05 GMT
#47
On May 30 2010 10:49 Von wrote:
Somebody has to say it:

I'm a Flash fan, seems like a good kid from what I can see.

But what player of his caliber goes 13 CC in the final match of the OSL championship on a two player map.

It is not sacrilege to suggest the possibility that - with the understanding that the future of Korean SC and Kespa now in doubt, and the possibility of the country going to war, the kid decided to follow his friends and fix the finals for a hefty sum.

Although nobody wants to entertain this, he might be thinking about his future and the future of his family and decided to take the cash.

13 CC? C'mon ...

.


If I was trying to throw a match I probably wouldn't utilize incredible game sense (game 1) or claw my way back to win a game from a bad position (game 2), then go for a build that gives me a huge advantage if successful (game 5).

You gotta be kidding me.
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
May 30 2010 02:39 GMT
#48

[*]The Flash Bonjwa theory is dead. Die-hard followers of this school will continue to try and spread its teachings, but their discredited words will now go largely unheeded. Flash will have to be content with being merely “the best player in world.”


Damn, if this could only be publicized in the MSL Grand Finals thread. Don't understand why people are still trying to anoint him as bonjwa. Get oh so defensive when I simply try to suggest that Flash is the best player, but he's not bonjwa level.
God Bless
Brett
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Australia3820 Posts
May 30 2010 02:46 GMT
#49
On May 30 2010 11:39 Roffles wrote:
Show nested quote +

[*]The Flash Bonjwa theory is dead. Die-hard followers of this school will continue to try and spread its teachings, but their discredited words will now go largely unheeded. Flash will have to be content with being merely “the best player in world.”


Damn, if this could only be publicized in the MSL Grand Finals thread. Don't understand why people are still trying to anoint him as bonjwa. Get oh so defensive when I simply try to suggest that Flash is the best player, but he's not bonjwa level.

Errr

Bonjwas lost starleague finals and random games too bro, it's ok...

I couldn't care less if they call him a bonjwa or not (I'm just a bitter protoss player/fan and it's not like my race is good enough to ever produce one), but the comparison to others is completely valid IMO.
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8098 Posts
May 30 2010 03:01 GMT
#50
in my heart I'll always be saying that this was Kal's OSL lol

good write-up
Free Palestine
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
May 30 2010 03:08 GMT
#51
Good write up. Good finals. Thank you very much for your diligent and comprehensive coverage!
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
OpticalShot
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada6330 Posts
May 30 2010 03:10 GMT
#52
I don't think the players themselves care as much as we (the fans) do about the bonjwa theory. The word has been brought up in several interviews and I recall at least Jaedong saying he doesn't want to be called that. Perhaps they're more content with their unique (and cool... I think) nicknames like "The Ultimate Weapon // God of Terran" and "Tyrant".
[TLMS] REBOOT
J1.au
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Australia3596 Posts
May 30 2010 03:49 GMT
#53
On May 30 2010 11:39 Roffles wrote:
Show nested quote +

[*]The Flash Bonjwa theory is dead. Die-hard followers of this school will continue to try and spread its teachings, but their discredited words will now go largely unheeded. Flash will have to be content with being merely “the best player in world.”


Damn, if this could only be publicized in the MSL Grand Finals thread. Don't understand why people are still trying to anoint him as bonjwa. Get oh so defensive when I simply try to suggest that Flash is the best player, but he's not bonjwa level.

Remember when Savior won dual finals? Oh that's right, it never happened.

I guess he wasn't a bonjwa.
hyst.eric.al
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2332 Posts
May 30 2010 04:34 GMT
#54
the ending was so touching.

though i saw the finals a while ago, i was eagerly awaiting the article, and it did not disappoint. thank you.
Leta , BeSt, Calm fan forever! 김정우, I am sorry I ever lost faith in you.
SoManyDeadLings
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada255 Posts
May 30 2010 04:47 GMT
#55
I can't help but hate Effort's face, he looks like an ugly elf.

Still, he beat Flash, something that

+ Show Spoiler +
the Dong couldn't even do without power outage (+150 to apm and +2 ranks).
wsrgry
okum
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
France5778 Posts
May 30 2010 04:54 GMT
#56
On May 30 2010 11:39 Roffles wrote:
Show nested quote +

[*]The Flash Bonjwa theory is dead. Die-hard followers of this school will continue to try and spread its teachings, but their discredited words will now go largely unheeded. Flash will have to be content with being merely “the best player in world.”


Damn, if this could only be publicized in the MSL Grand Finals thread. Don't understand why people are still trying to anoint him as bonjwa. Get oh so defensive when I simply try to suggest that Flash is the best player, but he's not bonjwa level.

People do this because it makes the antifans hysterical
Flash fan before it was cool | Coiner of "jangbang"
InTheFade
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1721 Posts
May 30 2010 06:05 GMT
#57
I didn't notice Kwark's "morally it should have been a loss" line until now. That's just fucking stupid lol
... Knowmsayin'?
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-30 06:26:40
May 30 2010 06:25 GMT
#58
The Flash bonjwa theory is far from dead wax! Watch him dual final for the third consecutive season
On May 30 2010 11:46 Brett wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2010 11:39 Roffles wrote:

[*]The Flash Bonjwa theory is dead. Die-hard followers of this school will continue to try and spread its teachings, but their discredited words will now go largely unheeded. Flash will have to be content with being merely “the best player in world.”


Damn, if this could only be publicized in the MSL Grand Finals thread. Don't understand why people are still trying to anoint him as bonjwa. Get oh so defensive when I simply try to suggest that Flash is the best player, but he's not bonjwa level.

Errr

Bonjwas lost starleague finals and random games too bro, it's ok...
Yea I mean, Oov got trounced by July, Savior lost to Yooi and stuff etc. Even if Flash won I doubt we would be calling him a bonjwa just yet. One more season to go imo.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Parnage
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States7414 Posts
May 30 2010 06:25 GMT
#59
Really nice write-up but I gotta give a big ol "wtf" to the whole flash b word is dead. That's something I disagree with completely. No he's not at that level yet but to call it dead is premature. I doubt he's going to pull a mass slump anytime soon and he's certainly has the playstyle and go for it attitude.

-orb- Fan. Live the Nal_rA dream. || Yordles are cool.
bluetrolls
Profile Joined October 2009
United States139 Posts
May 30 2010 06:33 GMT
#60
On May 30 2010 15:25 Parnage wrote:
Really nice write-up but I gotta give a big ol "wtf" to the whole flash b word is dead. That's something I disagree with completely. No he's not at that level yet but to call it dead is premature. I doubt he's going to pull a mass slump anytime soon and he's certainly has the playstyle and go for it attitude.



Sorry. It is well known that B players in their prime won every single tournament they participated in.
iLoveKT
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Philippines3615 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-30 06:59:36
May 30 2010 06:59 GMT
#61
Everybody seems to be ignoring the huge fact the flash fucking made the finals of both leagues 2 seasons in a row. Roffles, your bonjwas didnt do that, They also didnt have 100% win rate.

Also, flash is really young. When flash turns *insert jaedongs age here* he will probably have more golds and finals appearance than Nada. I just hope blizzard gtfo e-sports.
Woo Jung Ho
Nionim
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia45 Posts
May 30 2010 06:59 GMT
#62
Who rates this game?

motherfucker
iG.Stubborn
cYaN
Profile Joined May 2004
Norway3322 Posts
May 30 2010 08:07 GMT
#63
wow. someone called it a balanced article. wow. Anyways, good games.
rockslave
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Brazil318 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-30 08:14:14
May 30 2010 08:12 GMT
#64
Great article! At the end of this series I was feeling stupid because I predicted Flash 3-0 and until mid-set-3 believed so much I would bet on it... And then comes the unthinkable!

edit: Everyone's saying 13cc yadayada... Did you guys watch the MSL finals? =P.
What qxc said.
Zamkis
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada114 Posts
May 30 2010 08:15 GMT
#65
I'm not too sure about the Bonjwa theory being dead, until we see Flash play more games. I mean, wouldn't Savior completely fail at OSL for 3 seasons before finaly getting the crown? The infamous 3 MSL - 1 OSL path means losing a bunch of OSL while winning those other Starleagues. Plus the previous Bonjwas didn't make dual finals two times in a row. The fact that for both his runs the name of the game was ''Who can stop him?'' along reaching a 3-2 loss in one final and a 3-0 win in the other means he's kinda the man of the hour. Still, rooted for Effort and glad to see he finaly gets a noticable and lasting achievement.
Destruction is a work of an afternoon, Creation is a work of a lifetime.
Lebesgue
Profile Joined October 2008
4542 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-30 08:39:18
May 30 2010 08:38 GMT
#66
I pretty much disagree with everything that was written in "The post Korean Air-Hana Daetoo world", but everyone is entitled to his own opinion.

Thanks for the coverage though guys. I really appreciate you time and effort you put into this.
Subversive
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2229 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-30 10:22:11
May 30 2010 10:15 GMT
#67
On May 30 2010 07:31 disciple wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
No. This OSL was EffOrt very first decent performance in a StarLeague, wheres Casy had a good run in the OSL even before his winning season. EffOrt is up there with Mind - both had a difficult path to the finals, both denied bonjwa candidates.

Its up to EffOrt to prove his "legacy" you are talking about. For now he is just a really good player, who after seasons of sucking in the individual leagues, finally backed up his PL performance with a badge on his first good run.

+ Show Spoiler +
I think Mind, while once good has had his day. He isn't even the best terran on his team anymore. Midas fans would say he isn't even the 2nd best . Effort has been amazing for a long continuous period. I wasn't following the scene when Mind was stronger, but was he ever as good as Effort in pl?? I always got a sense he was more on par with Best and Jangbi, good but never the best of his race nor dominant the way Effort was in 2009 with his sick win-rate.

On May 30 2010 07:47 disciple wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Speaking of EffOrt's legacy at this point is rediculous. Its like comparing a talented and young poker player, who just won his first bracelet, with Phil Helmuth. We all know that the second bracelet is the hardest to win.

+ Show Spoiler +
Also, Phil Hellmuth spends a lot of time promoting himself, but c'mon. You don't even need a bracelet to be better than him. Everyone who is serious about poker including the tv pro's agree a "young rookie" like Phil Galfond or Tom Dwan is better than Phil. Phil had a lot of success when WSOP fields were tiny compared to today. He also enters about two to three times the number of events as someone like Doyle or even Ivey. So only Helmuth believes the fantasy that he is the greatest NLH player, man, he isn't even the greatest tournament player .

On May 30 2010 08:43 disciple wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Mocking Casy about his rubbish PvT is like making fun of J'Lo's huge ass - at some point it just becomes a defining feature, besides his obvious qualities which you've pointed out- his great TvZ and incredible mnm control

Poor J'Lo. I think she has a great ass. Anyone who has seen U-Turn speak up!

On May 30 2010 09:54 TwoToneTerran wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Haha wow, this article is trying way too hard to posit Effort as amazing. He deserved the win but the whole ground breaking latter section is pretty laughable.

+ Show Spoiler +
Agreed. I'm a big effort fan, have been since he debuted. But he isn't close to JD atm. Nor is Calm or Zero. All he's done is restore himself to his former position of (admittedly) greatness. And one could say if he continues he will be a rival to Jaedong. But the logic that Effort beats Flash who beats JD means Effort >= JD is silly.

On May 30 2010 12:49 J1.au wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2010 11:39 Roffles wrote:

[*]The Flash Bonjwa theory is dead. Die-hard followers of this school will continue to try and spread its teachings, but their discredited words will now go largely unheeded. Flash will have to be content with being merely “the best player in world.”


Damn, if this could only be publicized in the MSL Grand Finals thread. Don't understand why people are still trying to anoint him as bonjwa. Get oh so defensive when I simply try to suggest that Flash is the best player, but he's not bonjwa level.

+ Show Spoiler +
Remember when Savior won dual finals? Oh that's right, it never happened.

I guess he wasn't a bonjwa.

Lol so so true.

On May 30 2010 10:49 Von wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Somebody has to say it:

I'm a Flash fan, seems like a good kid from what I can see.

But what player of his caliber goes 13 CC in the final match of the OSL championship on a two player map.

It is not sacrilege to suggest the possibility that - with the understanding that the future of Korean SC and Kespa now in doubt, and the possibility of the country going to war, the kid decided to follow his friends and fix the finals for a hefty sum.

Although nobody wants to entertain this, he might be thinking about his future and the future of his family and decided to take the cash.

13 CC? C'mon ...


+ Show Spoiler +
You mean the same build on the same map that he beat JD in game 3 of the MSL finals?
Yeah must have been fixed. Lol.


EDIT: Spoilered more of my posts so they don't take up an entire page. Sorry for length, just didn't want to double or triple post
#1 Great fan ~ // Khan // FlaSh // JangBi // EffOrt //
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-30 11:11:07
May 30 2010 11:09 GMT
#68
^ What you're saying about Helmuth is bullshit.
+ Show Spoiler +
I dont like him that much but you'll have a hard time saying he's not the best no limit hold em tournament player in the world.
The pros make fun of him, that's because he's not that good at other games and they like to say that he's not very good at cash games.
But when it's about NL Hold em tournaments lots of pros will, when theyre actually serious, name him as the best. Just ask Doyle Brunson. You dont get 11 bracelets if youre not pretty fucking good
Also you act as if his last success was ages ago... his 11th bracelet is a pretty damn short time ago.

beep boop
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42676 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-30 14:03:18
May 30 2010 13:57 GMT
#69
On May 30 2010 15:05 InTheFade wrote:
I didn't notice Kwark's "morally it should have been a loss" line until now. That's just fucking stupid lol

Did you bother to read why I said that?
Effort's build was an ill thought out desperate allin that would never break Flash's natural. No good player would ever try and beat another good player with that build. As far as I can tell he just cracked under the pressure and tried a hail mary when he should have known better.
If your build only works when your opponent makes a specific mistake that happens 1% of the time then your build doesn't work. If you look at the EV Effort almost never wins game 3, quit being results orientated.

For those of you who play poker, Effort's the guy who shoved a flush with a gutshot straightflush draw on the turn on a double paired board against a faceup full house and hit his one out. It was a bad play and what makes it worse is that he knew it was a bad play. He was just tilting and got lucky.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Smu
Profile Joined July 2009
Serbia164 Posts
May 30 2010 14:53 GMT
#70
Just wow ... Yeah, Flash is a better player overall then Effort, and is in better overall shape for this season. But you know what, Effort did beat him in a Bo5 completely legit. It's Flash that took the risks and made the mistakes and Effort capitalized on them like every good Zerg would. No need to derail the issue any more then this.

I do feel bad that Flash didn't get both titles as he did play that well this season, but really, Effort is an amazing player, and did what he had to do to take the games. It's not his fault he couldn't look good while doing it, it's Flash that set up the ground for the lousy losses.
Take us into orbit Mr. Malmsteen. We've seen enough.
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
May 30 2010 15:21 GMT
#71
On May 30 2010 22:57 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2010 15:05 InTheFade wrote:
I didn't notice Kwark's "morally it should have been a loss" line until now. That's just fucking stupid lol

Did you bother to read why I said that?
Effort's build was an ill thought out desperate allin that would never break Flash's natural. No good player would ever try and beat another good player with that build. As far as I can tell he just cracked under the pressure and tried a hail mary when he should have known better.
If your build only works when your opponent makes a specific mistake that happens 1% of the time then your build doesn't work. If you look at the EV Effort almost never wins game 3, quit being results orientated.

For those of you who play poker, Effort's the guy who shoved a flush with a gutshot straightflush draw on the turn on a double paired board against a faceup full house and hit his one out. It was a bad play and what makes it worse is that he knew it was a bad play. He was just tilting and got lucky.


I might be mistaken but I dont think it's that incredibly rare that people push out really early to punish Zerg before the 2 hatch mutas pop,at least I'd think more than 1%. Then again what do I know about sc.

Either way I dont think it's about that, but about your wording, using "morals" as an argument is kinda weird.
beep boop
Ack1027
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States7873 Posts
May 30 2010 15:36 GMT
#72
The scans in this series by Flash were fucking ridiculous.
Robinsa
Profile Joined May 2009
Japan1333 Posts
May 30 2010 15:57 GMT
#73
I liked this series. Much more entertaining than the MSL series - that I was way more hyped up about. Anyway, great writeup as always.
4649!!
See.Blue
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2673 Posts
May 30 2010 16:11 GMT
#74
Since TLPD is out of date, what is effort's current record since the re-redo? I think he's something like 20-2 with his games in MSL qualifiers and latest PL victory.
InTheFade
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1721 Posts
May 30 2010 17:09 GMT
#75
The OSL is not a tournament of ethics! If you're implying that Flash "blew it," that's not really an argument of morality. Did Effort get lucky catching all those rines like that? Was it really luck? That game was clean. Does Effort get any credit for anything he does?

Here's an example of epic "immorality:"

... Knowmsayin'?
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42676 Posts
May 30 2010 17:19 GMT
#76
On May 31 2010 02:09 InTheFade wrote:
The OSL is not a tournament of ethics! If you're implying that Flash "blew it," that's not really an argument of morality. Did Effort get lucky catching all those rines like that? Was it really luck? That game was clean. Does Effort get any credit for anything he does?

If you want to suggest that Effort knew Flash was going to send out a small group of mnm with his medics slightly behind his marines because he didn't group them before sending them then please give your reasons. But he had to be extremely certain to risk such a bad build that would only work if Flash did that. Either something happened that left Effort 99% sure Flash would accidentally let his medics lag behind, and happened several minutes beforehand to give him time to set it up, or he just got lucky. I think the latter is rather more likely.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
May 30 2010 19:23 GMT
#77
On May 30 2010 22:57 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2010 15:05 InTheFade wrote:
I didn't notice Kwark's "morally it should have been a loss" line until now. That's just fucking stupid lol

Did you bother to read why I said that?
Effort's build was an ill thought out desperate allin that would never break Flash's natural. No good player would ever try and beat another good player with that build. As far as I can tell he just cracked under the pressure and tried a hail mary when he should have known better.
If your build only works when your opponent makes a specific mistake that happens 1% of the time then your build doesn't work. If you look at the EV Effort almost never wins game 3, quit being results orientated.

For those of you who play poker, Effort's the guy who shoved a flush with a gutshot straightflush draw on the turn on a double paired board against a faceup full house and hit his one out. It was a bad play and what makes it worse is that he knew it was a bad play. He was just tilting and got lucky.

He moves around with seven lings trying to snipe an scv or two, and slip zerglings into the main (EffOrt always wants to split up his zerglings and harass). Meanwhile, he's building extra lings and hiding them just outside Flash's natural. He's also teching to a lair off of two hatch, with very little drone saturation. His mutalisks will have to do damage. EffOrt then loses four lings, and pulls back. It's completely reasonable for terran to move out and pressure before mutalisks at this point. He does not group his army first however, and moves out with his flank clearly exposed to EffOrt.

I think we agree up until there. But a few thoughts as to what happened and what was going to happen from then on...
- Did Flash know that EffOrt was on two hatch? He might have suspected it, and it's reasonable to believe that he assumed it, but he didn't know for sure. His scv was chased out of the natural by zerglings, and conceivably EffOrt could've had a drone right behind that to plant the hatchery.
- Did Flash know that EffOrt was going nearly all-in ling/muta? He clearly did not. He didn't see EffOrt's extra zerglings, and he didn't get a good enough look at EffOrt's drone saturation. When his scv is at the 9 o'clock expansion, it sees a drone popping.

What this goes to show, I think, is that there was a lot more deception in EffOrt's build than you're willing to give it credit for. EffOrt's build was indeed about blitzing Flash with mutalisks, and getting some harass done with his zerglings. But his decision to hide his second set of zerglings was clearly because he intended to kill Flash's eminent push with them, possibly in conjunction with mutalisks if Flash took too long to push out. Furthermore, EffOrt's decision to move his zerglings where he does the moment he sees Flash's push coming out is an indication that he intended to either backstab Flash's base, or do what he did, which was take advantage of a positional advantage.

Point being, I don't think a desperate all-in would've been quite so subtle.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
SynC[gm]
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States3127 Posts
May 30 2010 19:30 GMT
#78
Casy had a 25% TvP winrate? Thought he had a better TvP winrate than Firebathero...
twitch.tv/dizzywee
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-30 20:13:39
May 30 2010 20:09 GMT
#79
wow what a sad sight:

Link


@treehugger I think it was very clear it was a 2 hatch because of the gas timing.
But I still find his 2nd hatch placement super interesting, maybe it was some sort of message like "this is gonna be useful in late game" while in reality he wanted to end the game early? I dunno, I still dont get why he didnt build it at his natural.
beep boop
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-30 20:58:21
May 30 2010 20:48 GMT
#80
I agree with your views on the games kwark. Well done!

Nice article overall.
GJ

However can't really agree with everything said in "The post Korean Air-Hana Daetoo world".

Leessang domination severe blow-> they're in like almost every final these days.
And flash bonjwa "rumor" being dead -> Hey he only made 4 finals out of four possible. Lots of people has done that before ye...
No bonjwa did this and this is what kills the bonjwamode for him? then you can just say there have never been any bonjwas.

If you're going to claim he's not bonjwa atleast explain it with that it's because Jaedong has also been dominating for a long time or that Flash's time of domination hasn't been long enough.
Explaining it with "hey he lost a final" is rubbish.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
May 30 2010 21:08 GMT
#81
On May 31 2010 05:09 7mk wrote:
wow what a sad sight:

Link


@treehugger I think it was very clear it was a 2 hatch because of the gas timing.
But I still find his 2nd hatch placement super interesting, maybe it was some sort of message like "this is gonna be useful in late game" while in reality he wanted to end the game early? I dunno, I still dont get why he didnt build it at his natural.

The difference is that with many two hatch muta builds, a third hatch is added after lair. EffOrt remained on two hatches. That's 300 minerals that Flash may have assumed went into a hatchery, while they went into zerglings instead.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
May 30 2010 21:30 GMT
#82
Oh that's what you meant, sorry then.
beep boop
Slardar
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada7593 Posts
May 30 2010 22:39 GMT
#83
Great read and excellent analysis of the games. Still can't believe Flash lost this.
NeCroPoTeNce
Profile Joined July 2009
United States513 Posts
May 30 2010 22:58 GMT
#84
Awesome read. Thx man!
zerg all the way! Lee Jaedong hwaiting
Spyfire242
Profile Joined March 2009
United States715 Posts
May 31 2010 00:52 GMT
#85
On May 30 2010 15:59 iLoveKT wrote:
Everybody seems to be ignoring the huge fact the flash fucking made the finals of both leagues 2 seasons in a row. Roffles, your bonjwas didnt do that, They also didnt have 100% win rate.

Also, flash is really young. When flash turns *insert jaedongs age here* he will probably have more golds and finals appearance than Nada. I just hope blizzard gtfo e-sports.


Bonjwa =/= win rate.
Entusman #55 Spyfire242!
khellian
Profile Joined February 2010
Korea (South)922 Posts
May 31 2010 05:03 GMT
#86
Great writeup, thanks! Really happy for Effort and CJ!

+ Show Spoiler +
And even though i strongly dislike Flash, I am glad he got his gold in MSL, it was well earned. Still damn dissapointed that Jaedong didn't put up a better fight.
rugmonkey
Profile Joined August 2009
United Kingdom126 Posts
May 31 2010 12:14 GMT
#87
Stylish pretty much covered what I had to say. Great article though.
Liquid`Nazgul
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
22427 Posts
May 31 2010 14:16 GMT
#88
awesoem writeup!
Administrator
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42676 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-31 18:40:54
May 31 2010 18:37 GMT
#89
On May 31 2010 05:48 StylishVODs wrote:
I agree with your views on the games kwark. Well done!

Nice article overall.
GJ

However can't really agree with everything said in "The post Korean Air-Hana Daetoo world".

Leessang domination severe blow-> they're in like almost every final these days.
And flash bonjwa "rumor" being dead -> Hey he only made 4 finals out of four possible. Lots of people has done that before ye...
No bonjwa did this and this is what kills the bonjwamode for him? then you can just say there have never been any bonjwas.

If you're going to claim he's not bonjwa atleast explain it with that it's because Jaedong has also been dominating for a long time or that Flash's time of domination hasn't been long enough.
Explaining it with "hey he lost a final" is rubbish.

In the comments I'm entirely prepared to call Flash bonjwa for his consistency and he is clearly above the competition. But in the news that's a shitstorm I can't stir up. I just say what I think happened in the games. But I agree that 4 finals in 4 is absolutely stunning.
On a slightly related note, Flash won 69% of his games in the OSL while Effort won 66% of his.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
pathy
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Taiwan619 Posts
May 31 2010 19:31 GMT
#90
i see effort nipple
Graphicscolosi suck
Metaspace
Profile Joined November 2006
Austria670 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-02 08:28:57
June 01 2010 16:34 GMT
#91
Flash dumbly proxying in game 4, then messing up his wall in game 5. Flash after all.
More bet fixing?
Wir haben zuwenig Vespingas!
TriniMasta
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1323 Posts
June 02 2010 22:46 GMT
#92
On June 02 2010 01:34 Metaspace wrote:
Flash dumbly proxying in game 4, then messing up his wall in game 5.
More bet fixing?

FAIL
정명훈 FIGHTING!!! Play both T and P.
Crisium
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1618 Posts
June 04 2010 18:21 GMT
#93
Savior had 4 wins and 2 runner-ups in 5 seasons (10 tournaments). Flash has 2 wins and 2 runner-ups in 2 seasons (4 tournaments). The ignorance of declaring the Bonjwa debate dead is astounding. How can it be dead when he is showing no signs of slowing down and if he wins both Starleagues next season he will do what Savior did in 2 full less seasons. I'm not a Flash fan, but I have to admit that in the next season or three he can still take the title.
Broodwar and Stork forever! List of BW players with most Ro16, Ro8: http://tinyurl.com/BWRo16-Ro8
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