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On May 31 2010 09:07 ret wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 06:57 RoMarX wrote:On May 30 2010 08:44 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better. According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is. In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me. this. because of the easier engine in sc2, strategy > mechanical monkeys. and thats great. actually in theory it sucks because it turns the game into a guessing game since scouting is almost impossible early  great risks will pay off because they cant be battled with great mechanics rock paper scissors build order picks
I like your analysis ret. I guess we'll find out what happens when the major korean "mechanical monkey's" as people so disparagingly call high-apm players like Lee Young Ho and Lee Jae Dong transition to sc2.
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Jeez so many things different events going on some people don't have time to watch them live. How hard is it to upload videos after casting ... just a few clicks and afk?
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On May 31 2010 13:03 Therapist wrote:
Jeez so many things different events going on some people don't have time to watch them live. How hard is it to upload videos after casting ... just a few clicks and afk?
zatic does a heap for the community without any reward other than our gratitude. Also, he has a life outside of this site, as awesome as it is. Be patient
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I don't see how we can definitively say SC2 is mechanically easier until lots of players with pro-level mechanics play the game. Intuitively it makes great sense that mechanics are less important in SC2, because so many basic tasks require much lower APM. But as the metagame evolves, people learn the fundamentals, and competitive, talented players try to gain an edge over each other, I don't see why extra uses for that APM won't be found. I see the easier mechanics as freeing up a pool of APM that could perhaps be used on something else.
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Mechanics are once again going to be the overall game decider (along with ability to handle psychological pressure in competitions) for StarCraft 2 since mechanics have no skill cap - you can never be too fast or too good at multitasking. Other concepts like strategy, timing etc are not as hard to get a grasp of. It's the top quality of mechanics and steel cold nerves that made StarCraft's best players, and SC2 is not that much a different game.
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god i would kill for the vods to be up today :/
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On May 31 2010 20:51 towerranger wrote:
god i would kill for the vods to be up today :/
seconded!!! geeeez, chrono the vods guys
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United States17042 Posts
Still waiting for the vods  I can't wait to see them
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On May 31 2010 09:07 ret wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 06:57 RoMarX wrote:On May 30 2010 08:44 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better. According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is. In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me. this. because of the easier engine in sc2, strategy > mechanical monkeys. and thats great. actually in theory it sucks because it turns the game into a guessing game since scouting is almost impossible early great risks will pay off because they cant be battled with great mechanics rock paper scissors build order picks
im not sure what you mean with rock paper scissors but i dont think this is a game where the luck is involved, but anyways the game wasnt even released and then with the patches, fixes, etc the gameplay will improve a lot.
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On May 31 2010 13:01 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 09:07 ret wrote:On May 31 2010 06:57 RoMarX wrote:On May 30 2010 08:44 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better. According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is. In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me. this. because of the easier engine in sc2, strategy > mechanical monkeys. and thats great. actually in theory it sucks because it turns the game into a guessing game since scouting is almost impossible early great risks will pay off because they cant be battled with great mechanics rock paper scissors build order picks I like your analysis ret. I guess we'll find out what happens when the major korean "mechanical monkey's" as people so disparagingly call high-apm players like Lee Young Ho and Lee Jae Dong transition to sc2.
"Young Ho" is obviously a great name. Jay-Z would agree.
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On May 30 2010 08:44 Wargizmo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better. According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is. In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me.
My evidence would be that Ret and Idra were absolutely dominated at Blizzcon by Korean pros, who still train to play BW not SC2. That pretty much is as real as it gets.
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Vods are comming a bit late these days
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On June 01 2010 01:23 RoMarX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 09:07 ret wrote:On May 31 2010 06:57 RoMarX wrote:On May 30 2010 08:44 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better. According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is. In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me. this. because of the easier engine in sc2, strategy > mechanical monkeys. and thats great. actually in theory it sucks because it turns the game into a guessing game since scouting is almost impossible early great risks will pay off because they cant be battled with great mechanics rock paper scissors build order picks im not sure what you mean with rock paper scissors but i dont think this is a game where the luck is involved, but anyways the game wasnt even released and then with the patches, fixes, etc the gameplay will improve a lot.
Luck is of course in sc2? If someone else mismicro's whats that? luck for you.
If someone does a build that is gonna be owned by you, while no one knew, its luck.
Many games are so interessting because lil luck and bad luck happens here and there and can mix things up a bit like spotting a huge drop while you didnt intent to spot anything...
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Does anyone know when the VODs are going up and where to find them?
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On June 01 2010 01:55 Darpa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 08:44 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better. According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is. In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me. My evidence would be that Ret and Idra were absolutely dominated at Blizzcon by Korean pros, who still train to play BW not SC2. That pretty much is as real as it gets.
So your evidence is some matches from when no one had even played the game yet, and your examples include losses by someone who doesn't practice any more and someone who is actually known for his mechanical play rather than his tactics. Ok. Cool.
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On June 01 2010 07:56 Wargizmo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 01:55 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:44 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better. According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is. In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me. My evidence would be that Ret and Idra were absolutely dominated at Blizzcon by Korean pros, who still train to play BW not SC2. That pretty much is as real as it gets. So your evidence is some matches from when no one had even played the game yet, and your examples include losses by someone who doesn't practice any more and someone who is actually known for his mechanical play rather than his tactics. Ok. Cool.
Its certainly more evidence than wishing that korean pros wont be the best players in the world because the game is "less mechinical and more tactical" for some delusional sense of hope that NA/Euros can compete. Nony was great at SC1, and is great at SC2, so why would Pros be any different? to think that Korean pros wont be able to play SC2 as the best players in the world because the game is less "mechanical" is naive. No need to get butthurt over it.
Not that im saying that NA/Euros wont be able to compete, but I am saying Korean pro's when they make the switch will in all likelyhood be dominating the scene.
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On June 01 2010 09:05 Darpa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 07:56 Wargizmo wrote:On June 01 2010 01:55 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:44 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better. According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is. In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me. My evidence would be that Ret and Idra were absolutely dominated at Blizzcon by Korean pros, who still train to play BW not SC2. That pretty much is as real as it gets. So your evidence is some matches from when no one had even played the game yet, and your examples include losses by someone who doesn't practice any more and someone who is actually known for his mechanical play rather than his tactics. Ok. Cool. Its certainly more evidence than wishing that korean pros wont be the best players in the world because the game is "less mechinical and more tactical" for some delusional sense of hope that NA/Euros can compete. Nony was great at SC1, and is great at SC2, so why would Pros be any different? to think that Korean pros wont be able to play SC2 as the best players in the world because the game is less "mechanical" is naive. No need to get butthurt over it. Not that im saying that NA/Euros wont be able to compete, but I am saying Korean pro's when they make the switch will in all likelyhood be dominating the scene.
Where did I say Koreans weren't going to do well? My entire point was that you'll probably see older players doing better. Tester is Korean after all.
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Imo actually, once a scene develops and stuff like build orders settle down a bit, we will see younger players take over again.
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Will vods be up by June 2nd?
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On June 01 2010 09:05 Darpa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 07:56 Wargizmo wrote:On June 01 2010 01:55 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:44 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better. According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is. In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me. My evidence would be that Ret and Idra were absolutely dominated at Blizzcon by Korean pros, who still train to play BW not SC2. That pretty much is as real as it gets. So your evidence is some matches from when no one had even played the game yet, and your examples include losses by someone who doesn't practice any more and someone who is actually known for his mechanical play rather than his tactics. Ok. Cool. Its certainly more evidence than wishing that korean pros wont be the best players in the world because the game is "less mechinical and more tactical" for some delusional sense of hope that NA/Euros can compete. Nony was great at SC1, and is great at SC2, so why would Pros be any different? to think that Korean pros wont be able to play SC2 as the best players in the world because the game is less "mechanical" is naive. No need to get butthurt over it. Not that im saying that NA/Euros wont be able to compete, but I am saying Korean pro's when they make the switch will in all likelyhood be dominating the scene.
Your logic, it is flawed! Koreans aren't and won't be the best in the world because they have a knack for "mechanics", they were and are the best in the world at SC:BW specifically because they played the game day and night in living conditions similar to labor mills, whereas other countries haven't been plagued by this problem. If some organization akin to KeSPA were able to transition the pro players to SC2, they'd probably dominate that pretty soon as well. Until then, the people playing under sane conditions will be the best at SC2.
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EPT
