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The Altitude TL Invitational - [Over]
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/keit/altitudetlinvirevamp.png)
TeamLiquid is proud to present the Altitude TL Invitational, a single day StarCraft 2 event with four of the best SC2 players to celebrate the end of the first beta phase. The event will be casted from replays by Day[9] and Chill on Saturday, May 29 2:00pm EDT.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/keit/theplayers.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/keit/theprizes.jpg)
+ Show Spoiler [Results] +
Tester 2-0 White-Ra
Idra 2-0 TLO
3rd: White-Ra 3-1 TLO
Final: Tester 3-0 Idra
A message from our sponsor:
Altitude is a cartoon aerial brawler developed by people who love Starcraft for people who love deep, addictive, multiplayer action games. Chris "Pillars" Page, former progamer and former lead balancer on SC2: "Altitude offers an excellent mixture of accessibility and depth. I've been playing this game on and off for over two years. Easily one of the best indie games [or games period] I've ever encountered." When battle net crashes don’t whine and cry, Grab the Altitude Demo and brawl in the sky! You can download the free demo for Windows, Mac, and Linux at altitudegame.com
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I want to see TLO vs Idra because they are the anti each other.
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so much SC today, oh man, now this awesome tournament! SICK LINEUP
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Looking forward to great games!
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the loser gets $100 for being invited?
go TLO, you are awesome.
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wow... that was a massacre...
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I don't understand why whitera didn't research warpgates... wth?
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Hallucinated massive units destroy FFs?
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why's the stream off? 
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I tried everything but I can't fix the stream lagging for me
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is there a live report thread on this?
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Anyone else having troubles with the stream constantly buffering / cutting out?
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stupid ustream
just says "off air"
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that was a sick forcefield to delay DT
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Yeah for me Ustream is unwatchable once the host gets more than 3000 viewers.
Keeps buffering / cutting out, I literally get a slide show. It plays for 5s and buffers for the next 10.
Also the damned thing tries to catch up to where Day is with his commentary instead of playing what was already recorded a few mins/seconds ago, so I keep getting these "frog leaps" in commentary and screen on the show.
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Tester made it look pretty easy.
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Interesting, the stream isn't lagging for me.
On a game related note. Good game, the DT's worked well, but Tester just overpowered White-ra. Can't wait for the next game.
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On May 30 2010 03:52 Latham wrote:
Yeah for me Ustream is unwatchable once the host gets more than 3000 viewers.
Keeps buffering / cutting out, I literally get a slide show. It plays for 5s and buffers for the next 10.
Also the damned thing tries to catch up to where Day is with his commentary instead of playing what was already recorded a few mins/seconds ago, so I keep getting these "frog leaps" in commentary and screen on the show.
Day[9] really needs to lower the capture quality so we can enjoy it without leap froging
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Somebody plz tell Day[9] that the stream is lagging as hell !!!
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On May 30 2010 03:55 grfan wrote:
Somebody plz tell Day[9] that the stream is lagging as hell !!!
It's really smooth for me.
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Yeah, stream has been great for me so far.
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On May 30 2010 03:56 Slow Motion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 03:55 grfan wrote:
Somebody plz tell Day[9] that the stream is lagging as hell !!! It's really smooth for me.
same for me.. dunno why you're lagging like hell, did you tried restarting your comp if you already restarted the stream?
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It was THE sickest forcefield!
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It is because of the quality of the stream.
On May 30 2010 03:31 phuzi0n wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 03:26 balrog wrote:On May 30 2010 03:11 NuKedUFirst wrote:
Hey Day[9], Your stream lags every few seconds and freezes, could you turn down the quality of the stream just a hair so that people with shitty internets can have some viewing pleasure? I'm getting this too Ditto. The bit rate is just slightly too high for 1.5mbps connections to stream uninterrupted. Pause it for a minute or so at the start to let it load a bit more before playing.
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smooth for me sorry guys
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LOL @ TLO's planetary fortress in main
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hm... skips for chrome, fine for ff...
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So did you laugh out loud or are you sad?
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On May 30 2010 04:13 nihlon wrote:So did you laugh out loud or are you sad?
I was amused initially but am sad for TLO.
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What score between WhiteRa and Tester?
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Why is the stream offline for some people ?
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If TLO just went for more expansions while turtling all over the map with mass viking there's just no way for Zerg to win the game, but he decided to push, get his vikings fungal groth'ed and those tanks shot themself down cause of broodlords .. :x^^
Really nice play by IdrA, but what I'm trying to say, Zerg has nothing to beat Terran with when he just stayes defensive and sets up an army / base like that
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On May 30 2010 04:17 cuppatea wrote:
What score between WhiteRa and Tester?
Score was + Show Spoiler +
Man idra has such sick macro. In the battles his army stayed at like 200/200 supply as he could rebuild his troops so fast.
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wow idra vs. tlo game 1 was awesome!
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United States22883 Posts
Boa constrictor style. o.o
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TLO needed ravens to kill all those projectiles.
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Who is the second caster? I like his style
**Not Day
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On May 30 2010 04:26 Maliceubx wrote:
Who is the second caster? I like his style
**Not Day
Chill
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I think its the Chillster.
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with more knowledge t could have won that game so easily
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On May 30 2010 04:27 iamtt1 wrote:
with more knowledge t could have won that game so easily
what do you mean?
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On May 30 2010 04:18 G.s)NarutO wrote:
If TLO just went for more expansions while turtling all over the map with mass viking there's just no way for Zerg to win the game, but he decided to push, get his vikings fungal groth'ed and those tanks shot themself down cause of broodlords .. :x^^
Really nice play by IdrA, but what I'm trying to say, Zerg has nothing to beat Terran with when he just stayes defensive and sets up an army / base like that
A good zerg player can counter that with drops and nydus. You can't turtle up around every expansion.
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On May 30 2010 04:27 iamtt1 wrote:
with more knowledge t could have won that game so easily
Knowledge of what?
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of how to play sc1 tvz mech style, just by mass turtling and forcing z to break you
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with more knowledge i wouldn't lose any games at all
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Just a feedback of the stream. Mine is also lagging, like the leap frog thst was mentioned before. I'm in Europe.
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Its fine on chrome for me..
cuppatea, whiteRa lost 0 2 to tester.
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Roaches steamrolling over tanks. Meh:|
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Anyone got a tip to connect to the stream? I keep getting Off Air.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On May 30 2010 04:33 nbMifu wrote:
Just a feedback of the stream. Mine is also lagging, like the leap frog thst was mentioned before. I'm in Europe.
Some Europeans seem to have issues with Ustream at times.
Anyways, that was well done from Idra.
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The representative of the dirty Terran race is out ^_^. My heart couldn't be more content.
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Dang Idra's roaches came out of nowhere and just decimated those tanks.
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It's ok now , but it freezez a little from 1-2 min (Ithink) to another.
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+ Show Spoiler +idra 2-0 over TLO. he used mass roaches to counter a marine + tank push by TLO. so it's TLO vs whitera next for 3rd place and then tester vs idra in the finals.
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Maybe try constant refreshing until you're in? Worked for me once with HDH Final
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United States22883 Posts
On May 30 2010 04:31 iamtt1 wrote:
of how to play sc1 tvz mech style, just by mass turtling and forcing z to break you
He did turtle up pretty hard. How would you have dealt with the Broodlords differently? I think a siege ball would've been annihilated.
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"Chill: The Broodlords are brutal with those broodlings...!" =D
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On May 30 2010 04:28 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 04:18 G.s)NarutO wrote:
If TLO just went for more expansions while turtling all over the map with mass viking there's just no way for Zerg to win the game, but he decided to push, get his vikings fungal groth'ed and those tanks shot themself down cause of broodlords .. :x^^
Really nice play by IdrA, but what I'm trying to say, Zerg has nothing to beat Terran with when he just stayes defensive and sets up an army / base like that A good zerg player can counter that with drops and nydus. You can't turtle up around every expansion.
You saw that drop of IdrA getting utterly destroyed? You CAN do that for every expansion.. also having vikings for lategame will destroy drops.
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Who said roach is useless now ? That was a great roach play thought
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stream is working fine for me and i'm on linux which is notorious for being bad with flash.
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works very good for me.
if you get the off air thing just refresh thousand times :-/
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Oh well, the refreshing trick isn't working for me today, it's constantly off-air.
EDIT - After I make my post the very next refresh gets it working again...
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+ Show Spoiler +It will be Tester vs idra(eedra as day9 and chill like to call him) in the finals!
go TLO!
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If Terran just sits on his ass and takes expansions, there's not much you can do about it as Z. Once he gets a nice 3-3 200/200 mech army he's going to steamroll you one way or another.
Right now a T mech ball is probably the most cost effective unit combo in the game. Even a base or econ advantage wont guarantee you a win as Z.
If he's on equal bases as you, or wrestles control of a base from you you're in deep shit. Nydus or drops are good if you catch him off guard but usually that is not the case. Even if you manage to bling drop his mineral line, he'll just thank you for freeing up more food for mech. Only hope is to throw wave after wave and whittle him down. Dunno how ultras do now against mech, but IMO they still get shut down by that 250mm roflstomp artillery on thors, no?
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+ Show Spoiler +tlo lost against idra, right?
so 3rd place match : whitera vs tlo
final : tester vs idra
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Is the 3rd place match or the finals first?
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3rd place match is first. Its coming up after the break.
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Ooh, those hoping for an EU victory after the triumph in the EU vs. Asia tournament today, are not going to be pleased after both EU-server players were defeated 2-0 by the Korean-server players.
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Hey Chill, if you see this, you know that you can always see the minimap if you just drag the replay into the SC2 icon in your desktop?
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On May 30 2010 04:37 G.s)NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 04:28 nihlon wrote:On May 30 2010 04:18 G.s)NarutO wrote:
If TLO just went for more expansions while turtling all over the map with mass viking there's just no way for Zerg to win the game, but he decided to push, get his vikings fungal groth'ed and those tanks shot themself down cause of broodlords .. :x^^
Really nice play by IdrA, but what I'm trying to say, Zerg has nothing to beat Terran with when he just stayes defensive and sets up an army / base like that A good zerg player can counter that with drops and nydus. You can't turtle up around every expansion. You saw that drop of IdrA getting utterly destroyed? You CAN do that for every expansion.. also having vikings for lategame will destroy drops.
He ran his Overlords onto a bunch of turrets and vikings. Of course they got taken out. It is very unlikely that you can do that to every expansion successfully and keep up in the macro game against a player like Idra, especially on this kind of map with so many expansions. Idra would have expanded to every available expansion. The reason TLO lost was NOT because he didn't turtle up enough. You are reaching at straws here. And you just happened to forget about the nydas worms.
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stream buffering for me
im from euro.
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yea the stream is really laggy atm
edit: nvm reloading it fixed it ;o
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can anyone spoiler the results so far, I can't find them anywhere
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Never seen TLO not gg O.O probably frustrated.
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United States22883 Posts
HD: OMG LOOK AT THAT RAGEQUIT BY TLO, SUCH BAD MANNER!!!
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
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I think maybe he meant to say gg but he typed tt by accident.
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Can somehow explain what TLO played? Did he go 4 rax without gas just pure marine or what was that odd 2 stalker vs 4 rax and a cc situation?.. How did that happen^_-
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On May 30 2010 05:02 Prozen wrote:
I think maybe he meant to say gg but he typed tt by accident.
tt == TT == T_T = tears
no?
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whitera not researching warggates is driving me nuts, lol.
+ Show Spoiler +constant colossus drops by whitera keep TLO supply capped and busy while whitera reaches critical mass of colossus and rolls TLO in first game. so 1-0 whitera at the moment.
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On May 30 2010 05:02 Roffles wrote:
Rofl TT, not GG.
Hmm 'tt' is right above 'gg' on the keyboard. There's a chance it wasn't on purpose.
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are the replays going to be released?
i have to go after TLO vs. white-ra gonna miss finals
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On May 30 2010 05:03 G.s)NarutO wrote:
Can somehow explain what TLO played? Did he go 4 rax without gas just pure marine or what was that odd 2 stalker vs 4 rax and a cc situation?.. How did that happen^_-
whitera brought up a robo and 2 immortals + stalkers held the marine/marauder push
whitera good micro with stalkers vs. marines
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On May 30 2010 05:04 maybenexttime wrote:Hmm 'tt' is right above 'gg' on the keyboard. There's a chance it wasn't on purpose.
True, could have been misslip. It's just slightly funny though. =D
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I'm impressed by White-ra multitask Colossi harass while macroing like a beast. He looked so strong in this game.
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mistake on the tt, most likely
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+ Show Spoiler +Very nice comeback by white-ra. He lost a lot of units while he was dropping, but he did enough damage to justify it.
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On May 30 2010 05:04 maybenexttime wrote:Hmm 'tt' is right above 'gg' on the keyboard. There's a chance it wasn't on purpose.
It probably was on purpose because he didn't left the game right after saying it, if that would've been typo he'd probably corrected it
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Is the stream lagging for anyone else? Makes me said, unwatchable.
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<_< o great. Who called the gg police?
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He typed a. disqualify him. -_-
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Wow, what a fail by White-rA .. he just should have stayed a lil further away.. and always forcefield T_T..
But he clumbed his units together, panic forcefielded and then got hit by emp
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Game was decided on a misplaced forcefield that missed the ramp, ouch.
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On May 30 2010 05:16 Cpadolf wrote:
Is this Bo5 or Bo3?
Bo5
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Fucking ustream just crashed on me, been reloading for 5 minutes now. Seriously can someone restream his ustream on livestream? ;/
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Question, did TLO switch to Terran or is he still a Random player? He spawned as Terran every single game in this invitational so far.
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He switched over to Terran lately
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Lol, 2-1 White-Ra. Didn't think Zealots would break through that wall.
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They didn't have to, they just conga lined through.
TLO is having an off day today. Too much MSL partying I suppose.
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So increible White-Ra
Master of Harass
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Now at least people can stop ranting about the bad luck TLO had in HDH against WhiteRah.
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That last match was like straight out of BW. Go range dragoons!
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Not to complain...but is it just me, or is Chill way louder than Day[9]? I don't mean he's talking louder, I mean it sounds like his mic is louder or something.
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I <3 Stalkers against marine/tank, particularly on that map... Protoss can be such a dick early, abusing the 6 range + regenerating shields + fast walk speed, and then fast expand.
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White-ra Void ray are scary but now they look like carebears compared to his stalkers O_O
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On May 30 2010 05:33 stich09 wrote:
wow. TLO AFK
I agree it seems like TLO was nowhere near his usual capacity.
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Stream only buffers for me
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Yes, Chill seems very loud compared to Day.
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Stalkers ok for a marine/tank opening, but nowadays, Marauder rush is back, so a good scouting is quite needed to decide going stalkers
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Day talks more so it kinda balances out.
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post names of those psy dub tracks from the pause
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I think Tester should fill out our crazyness quota. GoGo Asia.
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Something other than a completely black screen would have been nice I think
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Funny thing about Idra vs. Tester is that I doubt Idra will have the balls to BM or not GG no matter what happens.
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On May 30 2010 05:50 Slow Motion wrote:
Funny thing about Idra vs. Tester is that I doubt Idra will have the balls to BM or not GG no matter what happens.
You under(over?:-p) -estimate Idra 
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United States22883 Posts
On May 30 2010 05:50 Slow Motion wrote:
Funny thing about Idra vs. Tester is that I doubt Idra will have the balls to BM or not GG no matter what happens.
IdrA always ggs people he respects. Don't be a tool.
Nice catchup by Tester. IdrA had the macro lead for a while, I didn't expect Tester to close the gap so quickly.
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Fuck, closed the stream tab by mistake and now it shows off air.
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Close spawn metalopolis + mass early zealots = anti idra
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Wow Tester is so baller, he pretty much knows what idra's gonna do and times his attacks perfectly. Not to mention he has excellent micro/macro and multitasking, I guess it shows what a korean programmer can do in SC2.
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United States22883 Posts
On May 30 2010 06:10 Gescom wrote:
Close spawn metalopolis + mass early zealots = anti idra
Yeah, sen's 12pool is probably the only thing that can hold that off.
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On May 30 2010 06:11 Neverhood wrote:
Wow Tester is so baller, he pretty much knows what idra's gonna do and times his attacks perfectly. Not to mention he has excellent micro/macro and multitasking, I guess it shows what a korean programmer can do in SC2.
Knowing what idra is going to do is not hard. rofl
Lots of P have had success against him on small maps pressuring early.
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IdrA has been GG'ing a lot of games lately, maybe some of you guys should pay more attention? Even in the HDH and now, he's been GGing. With that said, IdrA has been well mannered lately, and also playing a little bit better. With that said, this series is definitely shaping up really nicely 
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What are the results so far?
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Quick zealots pressure + wall off from tester to force roaches.. maybe teching into void rays?
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Good adaptation this game by Idra in getting roaches.
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On May 30 2010 06:17 Slow Motion wrote:
Good adaptation this game by Idra in getting roaches.
Getting roaches against chrono boosted zealots? A bronze level player would know to do that..
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Why isn't idra microing those hydras? Im not the best player but that looked reallllly stupid.
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On May 30 2010 06:28 stich09 wrote:
Why isn't idra microing those hydras? Im not the best player but that looked reallllly stupid.
By that I mean im actually terrible.
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Tester is a freaking beast
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wow Tester... so baller...
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Holy crap Tester 5-0 in this tourney...Artosis looking smart!
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On May 30 2010 06:28 holy_war wrote:
Tester is a freaking beast
best Protoss in the world currently, no joke
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impressive play by Tester, really nice to see Protoss midgame army beeing able to do a timing push on hydra/corrupter
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On May 30 2010 06:29 jonich0n wrote:best Protoss in the world currently, no joke
or maybe the best player in the world, i'm curious to see dimaga vs tester or sen vs tester
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Idra almost looked like me in those games, just having his forces evaporating like nothing else. Almost.
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On May 30 2010 06:28 stich09 wrote:
Why isn't idra microing those hydras? Im not the best player but that looked reallllly stupid.
It kind of was. I`m quite sure he didn`t need ground units to soak damage from the stalkers, he could just fly in with the corruptors and snipe the colossi. Kind of a bad time for Idra to play with his CJ schedule. Tester played like a beast though obviously. Congrats.
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Tester played it so smart ^^
All his coach experience really showed up today.
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Gotta hand it to Artosis, he was right and we were wrong.
Tester is truly an amazing player and read both White-Ra and IdrA perfectly. Unbelievable game sense - he knew exactly what they were going for, when they were going for it, and how to counter it. And he just destroyed IdrA in straight up battles even when IdrA switched up his play to try and take Tester off-guard.
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I thought, for a second, that this was an actual altitude tournament. Was super stoked for a second! haha.
I have to give props to altitude, i've been playing it for a while now, and it is a 10 in my book. It's like playing counterstrike, but you can get good at it in a couple days. I got a gamepad just so i could play altitude while lounging when I didn't feel like getting into an intense starcraft or counterstrike session.
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u gotta skate8152 Posts
Testerrrr <3
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On May 30 2010 06:33 barth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 06:28 stich09 wrote:
Why isn't idra microing those hydras? Im not the best player but that looked reallllly stupid. It kind of was. I`m quite sure he didn`t need ground units to soak damage from the stalkers, he could just fly in with the corruptors and snipe the colossi. Kind of a bad time for Idra to play with his CJ schedule. Tester played like a beast though obviously. Congrats.
Yes, I think Sen would've done that, but IdrA loves these set-piece battles in which he commits every unit. Tester exploited that, destroyed his ground army, and then pumped stalkers for the win.
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On May 30 2010 06:33 barth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 06:28 stich09 wrote:
Why isn't idra microing those hydras? Im not the best player but that looked reallllly stupid. It kind of was. I`m quite sure he didn`t need ground units to soak damage from the stalkers, he could just fly in with the corruptors and snipe the colossi. Kind of a bad time for Idra to play with his CJ schedule. Tester played like a beast though obviously. Congrats.
Yeah he has a BW PL match later. The two games are so different that would throw me off big time.
EDIT: Ah but he doesn't play for them, right? Is there another league CJ is in right now?
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Well, IdrA was good enough to 2-0 TLO, so I don't exactly think he was in "bad shape" these games...
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Tester is kind of like if you put Idras marco and mechanics, TLOs creative play style and White-Ras game sense into one player. (+ great micro)
Really cool.
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Good games, was hoping for closer battles. What exactly was Artosis's prediction? That Tester would absolutely dominate?
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Tester played like a monster those games. His multitasking and execution were pretty much topnotch. Those void rays there harassing left, definitely progamer level multitasking right there.
It's nice to see that Idra adapted well in Game 3. Had he done the same at to start off the series, we probably would have seen some great games.
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I think Tester just shows how the gap between pro gamers and everyone else is going remain if/when we get a larger group of pros instead of just the unlicensed/retired ones we have now
Those skills and that training doesn't just go away. If Asia isn't the best server right now which I think there's evidence to suggest it is (not just these games mind you) then it definitely will be in the future
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United States33201 Posts
I really loved how mechanically sound tester is compared to other SC2 players I see
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From what I've seen it looks like Cool (Z), Maka (T) and Tester (P) are the top players from each race.
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where can we watch replays or vods
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What no LR or scores?? Hope someone will post the results for me in spoiler tags!
Also was sure the event was held tomorrow at the 30th!? Damn what a calender mess-up. From my part I guess... Anyway hope it was some good games.
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I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it.
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Gah, I missed the finals... I guess I'll have to wait for the replays. Tester ftw.
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On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it.
Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know.
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On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know.
thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better.
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anyone want to write a quick battlereport summary for each game? Missed most of them and I'd like to know what happened.
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On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better.
According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is.
In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me.
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Is Daniel Lee a strategic genius by virtue of being a coach?
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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On May 30 2010 08:54 floor exercise wrote:
Is Daniel Lee a strategic genius by virtue of being a coach?
not necessarily, but it follows that someone who is a coach might know something or two about strategy and tactics no?
Regardless, it's one small point. My argument is you'll probably see older players doing better at SC2. You guys are welcome to disagree, I'm not going to say anything more about it.
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 TesteR rocks my socks,  IdrA did well so did TLO
Replays I hope aswell as VODs commng soon?
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Tester's play reminds me of something that Day9 emphasized a lot as of late: that great mechanics allow you to do things that you would otherwise not dream of doing. Tester was clearly in trouble in Game 3 when he two-gated into fast roaches (and in fact, fast roaches is part of the reason two-gate fell out of favor in the "received wisdom" of PvZ), but he was able to transition successfully into a win despite having the weaker build, simply by virtue of his mechanics being so strong.
Like Day9 said, oftentimes it's not the build that's the problem, it's the little things that you do or fail to do with it that counts.
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On May 30 2010 12:32 Azarkon wrote:
Tester's play reminds me of something that Day9 emphasized a lot as of late: that great mechanics allow you to do things that you would otherwise not dream of doing. Tester was clearly in trouble in Game 3 when he two-gated into fast roaches (and in fact, fast roaches is part of the reason two-gate fell out of favor in the "received wisdom" of PvZ), but he was able to transition successfully into a win despite having the weaker build, simply by virtue of his mechanics being so strong.
Like Day9 said, oftentimes it's not the build that's the problem, it's the little things that you do or fail to do with it that counts.
2 gate isnt weak vs roaches, stalkers hard counter them early on in low numbers. it never fell out of favor, its the most common pvz build on asia cuz nothing really counters it.
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Fair enough, wasn't really talking about Asia though. I understand their meta-game differs significantly from what we have on the US/EU. Here I'm seeing a lot more 3 gate robos, 4 gates, and forge expands.
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doesn't matter meta game = optimal playstyle.
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On May 30 2010 12:32 Azarkon wrote:
Tester's play reminds me of something that Day9 emphasized a lot as of late: that great mechanics allow you to do things that you would otherwise not dream of doing. Tester was clearly in trouble in Game 3 when he two-gated into fast roaches (and in fact, fast roaches is part of the reason two-gate fell out of favor in the "received wisdom" of PvZ), but he was able to transition successfully into a win despite having the weaker build, simply by virtue of his mechanics being so strong.
Idra mis-microd somewhat in that final battle with the corruptors coming in 2-3 seconds late. I think he would have won g3 if not for that. He obviously had an advantage after shutting down the void ray attempt so hard.
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Was really awesome to watch, just some awesome to play a good time to convince my friend to watch with me he enjoyed it
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On May 30 2010 10:01 NuKedUFirst wrote:TesteR rocks my socks, IdrA did well so did TLO Replays I hope aswell as VODs commng soon?
VODs will be up for sure. Replays probably won`t. Check Day[9]`s thread for Blip.tv/Ustream on-demand links later or perhaps TL youtube channel.
http://www.youtube.com/user/nevake
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Great games over all. Really exciting to watch and good commentating. Awsome!
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Does anyone know where the VODs will be allocated?
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#99999999: need those vods
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On May 30 2010 08:44 Wargizmo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better. According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is. In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me.
this. because of the easier engine in sc2, strategy > mechanical monkeys. and thats great.
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On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better.
nice assumptions yo
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Netherlands4511 Posts
On May 31 2010 06:57 RoMarX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 08:44 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better. According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is. In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me. this. because of the easier engine in sc2, strategy > mechanical monkeys. and thats great.
actually in theory it sucks because it turns the game into a guessing game since scouting is almost impossible early
great risks will pay off because they cant be battled with great mechanics
rock paper scissors build order picks
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curious about the vods now
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Can't wait to see the matches.
Probably Vods came out late, So its not the promised 1-2 day, Could even be a week. LOl
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On May 31 2010 09:07 ret wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 06:57 RoMarX wrote:On May 30 2010 08:44 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better. According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is. In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me. this. because of the easier engine in sc2, strategy > mechanical monkeys. and thats great. actually in theory it sucks because it turns the game into a guessing game since scouting is almost impossible early great risks will pay off because they cant be battled with great mechanics rock paper scissors build order picks
I like your analysis ret. I guess we'll find out what happens when the major korean "mechanical monkey's" as people so disparagingly call high-apm players like Lee Young Ho and Lee Jae Dong transition to sc2.
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Jeez so many things different events going on some people don't have time to watch them live. How hard is it to upload videos after casting ... just a few clicks and afk?
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On May 31 2010 13:03 Therapist wrote:
Jeez so many things different events going on some people don't have time to watch them live. How hard is it to upload videos after casting ... just a few clicks and afk?
zatic does a heap for the community without any reward other than our gratitude. Also, he has a life outside of this site, as awesome as it is. Be patient
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I don't see how we can definitively say SC2 is mechanically easier until lots of players with pro-level mechanics play the game. Intuitively it makes great sense that mechanics are less important in SC2, because so many basic tasks require much lower APM. But as the metagame evolves, people learn the fundamentals, and competitive, talented players try to gain an edge over each other, I don't see why extra uses for that APM won't be found. I see the easier mechanics as freeing up a pool of APM that could perhaps be used on something else.
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Mechanics are once again going to be the overall game decider (along with ability to handle psychological pressure in competitions) for StarCraft 2 since mechanics have no skill cap - you can never be too fast or too good at multitasking. Other concepts like strategy, timing etc are not as hard to get a grasp of. It's the top quality of mechanics and steel cold nerves that made StarCraft's best players, and SC2 is not that much a different game.
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god i would kill for the vods to be up today :/
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On May 31 2010 20:51 towerranger wrote:
god i would kill for the vods to be up today :/
seconded!!! geeeez, chrono the vods guys
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United States17042 Posts
Still waiting for the vods I can't wait to see them
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On May 31 2010 09:07 ret wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 06:57 RoMarX wrote:On May 30 2010 08:44 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better. According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is. In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me. this. because of the easier engine in sc2, strategy > mechanical monkeys. and thats great. actually in theory it sucks because it turns the game into a guessing game since scouting is almost impossible early great risks will pay off because they cant be battled with great mechanics rock paper scissors build order picks
im not sure what you mean with rock paper scissors but i dont think this is a game where the luck is involved, but anyways the game wasnt even released and then with the patches, fixes, etc the gameplay will improve a lot.
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On May 31 2010 13:01 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 09:07 ret wrote:On May 31 2010 06:57 RoMarX wrote:On May 30 2010 08:44 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better. According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is. In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me. this. because of the easier engine in sc2, strategy > mechanical monkeys. and thats great. actually in theory it sucks because it turns the game into a guessing game since scouting is almost impossible early great risks will pay off because they cant be battled with great mechanics rock paper scissors build order picks I like your analysis ret. I guess we'll find out what happens when the major korean "mechanical monkey's" as people so disparagingly call high-apm players like Lee Young Ho and Lee Jae Dong transition to sc2.
"Young Ho" is obviously a great name. Jay-Z would agree.
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On May 30 2010 08:44 Wargizmo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better. According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is. In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me.
My evidence would be that Ret and Idra were absolutely dominated at Blizzcon by Korean pros, who still train to play BW not SC2. That pretty much is as real as it gets.
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Vods are comming a bit late these days
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On June 01 2010 01:23 RoMarX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 09:07 ret wrote:On May 31 2010 06:57 RoMarX wrote:On May 30 2010 08:44 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better. According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is. In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me. this. because of the easier engine in sc2, strategy > mechanical monkeys. and thats great. actually in theory it sucks because it turns the game into a guessing game since scouting is almost impossible early great risks will pay off because they cant be battled with great mechanics rock paper scissors build order picks im not sure what you mean with rock paper scissors but i dont think this is a game where the luck is involved, but anyways the game wasnt even released and then with the patches, fixes, etc the gameplay will improve a lot.
Luck is of course in sc2? If someone else mismicro's whats that? luck for you.
If someone does a build that is gonna be owned by you, while no one knew, its luck.
Many games are so interessting because lil luck and bad luck happens here and there and can mix things up a bit like spotting a huge drop while you didnt intent to spot anything...
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Does anyone know when the VODs are going up and where to find them?
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On June 01 2010 01:55 Darpa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 08:44 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better. According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is. In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me. My evidence would be that Ret and Idra were absolutely dominated at Blizzcon by Korean pros, who still train to play BW not SC2. That pretty much is as real as it gets.
So your evidence is some matches from when no one had even played the game yet, and your examples include losses by someone who doesn't practice any more and someone who is actually known for his mechanical play rather than his tactics. Ok. Cool.
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On June 01 2010 07:56 Wargizmo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 01:55 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:44 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better. According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is. In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me. My evidence would be that Ret and Idra were absolutely dominated at Blizzcon by Korean pros, who still train to play BW not SC2. That pretty much is as real as it gets. So your evidence is some matches from when no one had even played the game yet, and your examples include losses by someone who doesn't practice any more and someone who is actually known for his mechanical play rather than his tactics. Ok. Cool.
Its certainly more evidence than wishing that korean pros wont be the best players in the world because the game is "less mechinical and more tactical" for some delusional sense of hope that NA/Euros can compete. Nony was great at SC1, and is great at SC2, so why would Pros be any different? to think that Korean pros wont be able to play SC2 as the best players in the world because the game is less "mechanical" is naive. No need to get butthurt over it.
Not that im saying that NA/Euros wont be able to compete, but I am saying Korean pro's when they make the switch will in all likelyhood be dominating the scene.
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On June 01 2010 09:05 Darpa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 07:56 Wargizmo wrote:On June 01 2010 01:55 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:44 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better. According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is. In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me. My evidence would be that Ret and Idra were absolutely dominated at Blizzcon by Korean pros, who still train to play BW not SC2. That pretty much is as real as it gets. So your evidence is some matches from when no one had even played the game yet, and your examples include losses by someone who doesn't practice any more and someone who is actually known for his mechanical play rather than his tactics. Ok. Cool. Its certainly more evidence than wishing that korean pros wont be the best players in the world because the game is "less mechinical and more tactical" for some delusional sense of hope that NA/Euros can compete. Nony was great at SC1, and is great at SC2, so why would Pros be any different? to think that Korean pros wont be able to play SC2 as the best players in the world because the game is less "mechanical" is naive. No need to get butthurt over it. Not that im saying that NA/Euros wont be able to compete, but I am saying Korean pro's when they make the switch will in all likelyhood be dominating the scene.
Where did I say Koreans weren't going to do well? My entire point was that you'll probably see older players doing better. Tester is Korean after all.
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Imo actually, once a scene develops and stuff like build orders settle down a bit, we will see younger players take over again.
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Will vods be up by June 2nd?
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On June 01 2010 09:05 Darpa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 07:56 Wargizmo wrote:On June 01 2010 01:55 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:44 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better. According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is. In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me. My evidence would be that Ret and Idra were absolutely dominated at Blizzcon by Korean pros, who still train to play BW not SC2. That pretty much is as real as it gets. So your evidence is some matches from when no one had even played the game yet, and your examples include losses by someone who doesn't practice any more and someone who is actually known for his mechanical play rather than his tactics. Ok. Cool. Its certainly more evidence than wishing that korean pros wont be the best players in the world because the game is "less mechinical and more tactical" for some delusional sense of hope that NA/Euros can compete. Nony was great at SC1, and is great at SC2, so why would Pros be any different? to think that Korean pros wont be able to play SC2 as the best players in the world because the game is less "mechanical" is naive. No need to get butthurt over it. Not that im saying that NA/Euros wont be able to compete, but I am saying Korean pro's when they make the switch will in all likelyhood be dominating the scene.
Your logic, it is flawed! Koreans aren't and won't be the best in the world because they have a knack for "mechanics", they were and are the best in the world at SC:BW specifically because they played the game day and night in living conditions similar to labor mills, whereas other countries haven't been plagued by this problem. If some organization akin to KeSPA were able to transition the pro players to SC2, they'd probably dominate that pretty soon as well. Until then, the people playing under sane conditions will be the best at SC2.
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Is this ever coming? I'm really looking forward to these games
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I woke up this morning hoping to find vods here ;/ Why did you failed me TL, whyyyyy Q_Q
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This has been played Saturday. It is now Tuesday and still no vods. Why do you say "in a day or so" ?
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
We are working hard to get the vods up. Just some delay getting them from Day[9]'s ustream to youtube - they will be up in the next few days.
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Braavos36374 Posts
On June 01 2010 15:26 Ancient.TL wrote:
This has been played Saturday. It is now Tuesday and still no vods. Why do you say "in a day or so" ?
VODs will be up when they are up. It may take a few days. There was an issue with Day[9]'s upload, and when that is resolved the VODs will be up.
We said "in a day or so" because at the time, that was the most accurate estimate of when the VODs would be uploaded. I suspect people would not be complaining if we had just said "VODs should be uploaded within the week," so from now on, expect that every VOD of every TL event should be uploaded within a week.
But please do not take this "within a week" guarantee as a binding contract, because unforeseen circumstances may cause it the VOD uploads to take longer. The VODs should be uploaded within a week, but may be uploaded earlier or later. If they are uploaded earlier, all may rejoice.
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VODs within the week. It takes the same amount of time to create the VODs, so why not doing it immediately?
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Braavos36374 Posts
On June 01 2010 18:37 Nilaus wrote:
VODs within the week. It takes the same amount of time to create the VODs, so why not doing it immediately?
I think it's pretty obvious that we'd do it immediately if there wasn't an unforeseen issue with with Day's upload. However, if we put a prediction of "next day or so" up and do not meet it, people will whine (see several posters above).
So we have decided to make a more accurate prediction of "within 1 week" which is fine whether we upload it today or at the end of the week. This will still lead to whining, but this type of whining is less frequent and less annoying.
Obviously, we will upload it as soon as possible.
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i am also waiting for theses vods now for days, but guys be patient, there are alot of guys working on it that get nothing for it other than our gratitude
For me that means i check this thread once a day, and if i find nothing i´ll watch some DAy[9] or teh HDH tourney with sound turned off
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Want to give props to TL, altitude and Day for this great series of games.
It was so fun to watch and I'm looking forward to watching these VODs again and again
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guess we need someone to just rip the ustream broadcast directly and republish that
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On June 02 2010 02:45 nickycakes wrote:
guess we need someone to just rip the ustream broadcast directly and republish that
Nope - it's being taken care of.
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Can't wait for the VODs. Thanks TL
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Thanks for trying your hardest TL.
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On June 02 2010 02:45 nickycakes wrote:
guess we need someone to just rip the ustream broadcast directly and republish that
This does sound like a good idea. If the "official" VODs can be posted in a day or week or so, that's great, but if some third party can publish the VOD's nearly immediately after, I'm sure the entire community would appreciate it. I see no downsides to this, as long as they're posted in the official thread and not on some other website.
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ITS OUT THANK U TL LUV U GUYS
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On June 02 2010 08:14 cive wrote:
ITS OUT THANK U TL LUV U GUYS
whereeeee
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better wait for 2-3 hours for youtube to process and to have a better quality
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I love the disclaimer on the first post regarding the spoiler content of the vods. Very necessary to warn people about that before they jump blindly into watching the games if they didn't want to know how they came out.
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Will replays be released or are we stuck with VODs only?
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Awesome games.
+ Show Spoiler +Tester is a beast, I wonder if better corrupter/hydra micro would've made a diff, Tester didn't have enough AA to kill corrupters before they killed the colossus, it looked like... but yeah.
ggz
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I know u guys got a lot of unnecessary shit for the void being a day or two late -_- but I just wanted to say thanks for putting on this event. The players and casters were all top notch. Thank you for putting on this and many other great events and I look forward to more in the future.
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Quite good games.
+ Show Spoiler + Pretty much all of it is Tester schooling foreigners though. I have to admit I expected more out of Idra. Especially on game 3 he showed his lack of ability to adapt. A handful of mutalisks would have done wonders versus a stretched out base like that. Too often does he wait for the opponent to build up so he can counter his army. He should take up on some initiative.
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Not sure if this helps anyone, but I made a reddit thread with each of the games individually linked with some spoiler prevention built in. I don't like how youtube makes you go through 5 pages between youtube videos so you can get to the main expanded version of a single video. Anyway, enjoy:
linky
and thanks a bunch to the team for getting the vods up. some AWESOME games.
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lol, Tester domination, awesome.
Laughs at those who thought he would get wrecked or was overrated, the gap between Asia and the world is still huge.
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did i miss something?
where are the games between tester v whitera and idra v tlo?
sorry guys, dont hang me...
just woke up
thx, great vods!
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Wow, I've never been so impressed by a SC2 player before. Truly, Tester is playing on another level than the current top foreigners.
Artosis, please invite more progamers to future invitationals!
p.s. everytime Chill laughed at Day9's jokes I also started laughing, what a cutie pie haha
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On June 02 2010 15:37 Wedge wrote:
lol, Tester domination, awesome.
Laughs at those who thought he would get wrecked or was overrated, the gap between Asia and the world is still huge.
I don't know if this series has convinced me that Korea will remain far and away the most dominant force in SC2. It's hard to describe but basically when you watch Korean BW it's just mind blowing and you feel no one could ever reach that level, whereas I don't get that same feeling watching Tester.
I do suspect that it's for 2 reasons: the main one being I don't think Blizzard's map pool favors macro oriented play very much. The other is that to my knowledge Korea still hasn't 'converted' to SC2. I'm very interested to see what will happen when (if?) they do
P.S. I would love to see Tester vs Sen =D
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What the heck is going on with the audio on TLO/Idra Game 1?
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On June 01 2010 18:47 Hot_Bid wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious that we'd do it immediately if there wasn't an unforeseen issue with with Day's upload. However, if we put a prediction of "next day or so" up and do not meet it, people will whine (see several posters above).
So we have decided to make a more accurate prediction of "within 1 week" which is fine whether we upload it today or at the end of the week. This will still lead to whining, but this type of whining is less frequent and less annoying.
Obviously, we will upload it as soon as possible.
I wouldn't say that people whine, I would say that they complain because of the failure of the results that they were expecting.
Don't make the mistake of thinking that people do not appreciate your work and time put into this because they complain.
Most people expected the vods to be up within one day and after several days of expecting the same thing and not having it they eventually started to complain about it.
But this is only due to the inaccuracy of their expectations as opposed to the actual facts.
So just proper information and notifications of the status that you guys are at will do wonders.
If it takes a day, say it will take a day, if one week, say one week, if you expect a day and some problems occur, just make a quick update on the status and tell people about it so that everybody knows what to expect as opposed to being dissapointed when they don't get the results they are expecting.
User was warned for this post
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I just watched game 1 and had something weird happening. + Show Spoiler +When the vod was over, Youtube jumped to game 1 of IdrA vs. Tester. This is obviously a bad spoiler, and that aside, it doesn't make any sense to watch the games in that order. Someone might want to look into that.
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Great games, great tournament and thanks to Altitude. Loved how it all happened on one day instead of dragging it on over a month.
Ridiculously stacked group of death lol.
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Braavos36374 Posts
On June 02 2010 18:11 Ancient.TL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 18:47 Hot_Bid wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious that we'd do it immediately if there wasn't an unforeseen issue with with Day's upload. However, if we put a prediction of "next day or so" up and do not meet it, people will whine (see several posters above).
So we have decided to make a more accurate prediction of "within 1 week" which is fine whether we upload it today or at the end of the week. This will still lead to whining, but this type of whining is less frequent and less annoying.
Obviously, we will upload it as soon as possible. I wouldn't say that people whine, I would say that they complain because of the failure of the results that they were expecting. Don't make the mistake of thinking that people do not appreciate your work and time put into this because they complain. Most people expected the vods to be up within one day and after several days of expecting the same thing and not having it they eventually started to complain about it. But this is only due to the inaccuracy of their expectations as opposed to the actual facts.
I believe "a day or so" can mean one or two days. It could even mean three days. That is why the estimate was "a day or so" and not "a day."
To prevent future misunderstandings, I present this handy chart:
American Measurements of Duration
- A minute = 0.00069 days
- An hour = 0.042 days
- A day = 1 day
- A day or so = 1-2 days (strict interpretation)
- A day or so = 1-3 days (lenient interpretation)
- A week = 7 days
- A month = 28-31 days
- A year = 365 or 366 days
- A decade = 3,652 or 3,653 days
- A century = 36,524 or 36,525 days
Chart © 2010 TeamLiquid
The VODs would have been posted on Monday (2 days after event) but due to a uploading error, they were posted on Tuesday, (3 days after the event). So even assuming the strictest interpretation of "a day or so," viewers were only deprived of the VODs for at most 24 hours.
Additionally, I believe given the general track record for tournaments uploading VODs, what happened was completely within the bounds of acceptability, especially since we gave an update stating that there was an uploading issue. For example, Proleague VODs often take 2-3 days to be uploaded.
So just proper information and notifications of the status that you guys are at will do wonders.
If it takes a day, say it will take a day, if one week, say one week, if you expect a day and some problems occur, just make a quick update on the status and tell people about it so that everybody knows what to expect as opposed to being dissapointed when they don't get the results they are expecting.
This is what we did. In fact, posting VODs three days later is perfectly OK for "a day or so" and I believe users making posts like "are they ever going to be up?" and proclaiming our estimate to be a mistake are definitely whining.
In sum, we posted our VODs 3 days after the event, and we informed everyone about a technical delay.
I believe you are blowing this incident out of proportion and I do not understand why you must complain about such a sequence of events.
However, as much as I wish to simply dismiss you with a short "quit whining," I feel it is necessary to explain what happened and why our actions were not unreasonable. Now, let's focus on the more important things like the actual games themselves or the sponsor that made this possible.
Please stop talking about this.
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People will complain no matter what you do, just look at the HDH thread, people were whining about the broadcast being delayed and as soon as games were broadcast people were bitching about no vods being uploaded and even now that the vods have been posted people are still bitching about not having replays. The whining will never stop.
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Anyone else think that the fragster.de showmatch with mardow v socke were way more entertaining series?
I just finished watching those and... my god those were insanely fun to watch.
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Thanks for the vods, have seen about four of them so far, and they are excellent! First time I've seen Tester play!
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Did I really deserve a warning for a perfectly logical and civilized explanation ?
It was not a "whining", as you call it, nor an offensive point a view, I was simply explaining the reason why people complained.
It makes me cautious about trying to further state logical point of views.
You know, Starcraft is popular in South Korea, not North Korea.
User was warned for this post
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Sweet series thanks for the VODs and thanks to the sponsor for providing these cool MUs!
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Nice VODs, just love Tester and his colossi in game 3 of the finals.
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On June 02 2010 21:11 Hot_Bid wrote:To prevent future misunderstandings, I present this handy chart:
American Measurements of Duration- A minute = 0.00069 days
- An hour = 0.042 days
- A day = 1 day
- A day or so = 1-2 days (strict interpretation)
- A day or so = 1-3 days (lenient interpretation)
- A week = 7 days
- A month = 28-31 days
- A year = 365 or 366 days
- A decade = 3,652 or 3,653 days
- A century = 36,524 or 36,525 days
<font size=1> Chart © 2010 TeamLiquid</font>
Thanks for this chart! It helped greatly in my understanding of time.
Sincerely,
A noob
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"A minute = 0.00069 days"
Thinking of it that way is very interesting, usually thousandth place decimals seem very insignificant.
Awesome games/awesome series, great lineup. I hope to see more of all those four players.
+ Show Spoiler +need more Korean players in future tournaments! it would be amazing if you could make it happen^^ Tester was fantastic to watch, the preemptive FF at the ramp was clutch on-the-fly decision making.
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wow this invitational was a lot more epic than I expected
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Are the replays going to be released? I would love to study some of TesteR's builds.
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On May 31 2010 06:57 RoMarX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 08:44 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 08:28 Darpa wrote:On May 30 2010 08:15 Wargizmo wrote:On May 30 2010 07:57 hacpee wrote:
I don't know if I said it in this thread but I'll say it again. Tester is the first SC2 player I enjoy watching. His mistakes were minimal and his multitasking was good. If a washed out x-progamer like tester can do this with SCII, imagine what Flash can do with it. Or maybe because SC2 has less mechanical requirements the older players actually have an advantage over the 16 year olds and we'll see the old 'washed up' players doing better than the current SC1 pros. We don't know. thats a pretty naive opinion if you ask me. The current pros are no where near the caliber of those players, they could pick up SC2 for 2 days and be better. According to you, with no evidence. Your opinion is just as naive as mine is. In my opinion we'll see more strategic geniuses (like Tester, who is a coach) and less 15 year old mechanical monkeys doing well in SC2 because it's a slower paced game with less mechanical requirements. Sounds like a logical argument to me. this. because of the easier engine in sc2, strategy > mechanical monkeys. and thats great.
Did you SC2-only fans know? Elite players like Flash and Jaedong were and are vastly superior to guys like Tester in every imaginable way in Broodwar. Mechanically, strategically, mind games, everything. So unless for some reason Tester's inferior strategic abilities at BW will translate to being superior strategically at SC2, there's very little reason to believe that Flash or JD wouldn't quickly rise to the top of SC2 as well.
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Who's deciding whether replays are being released or not? Are they being released?
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On June 04 2010 07:09 darktreb wrote:
Did you SC2-only fans know? Elite players like Flash and Jaedong were and are vastly superior to guys like Tester in every imaginable way in Broodwar. Mechanically, strategically, mind games, everything. So unless for some reason Tester's inferior strategic abilities at BW will translate to being superior strategically at SC2, there's very little reason to believe that Flash or JD wouldn't quickly rise to the top of SC2 as well.
Not that I disagree with you, but its pretty hard to evaluate an SCBW player in an incomplete fashion - what makes you think that Flash/Jaedong are better than Tester purely with reference to strategy?
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Has anyone been able to identify the awesome music Day[9] had playing during the livestream breaks and at the very end of the Altitude tournament? I know other users, like myself, enjoyed it and had posted queries on the forum during the event but I have been unable to find any responses to them thus far.
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To wrap things up:
Thanks to TL and Altitude for making this tournament possible and happen! Things like that make the Beta really yummy :-)
Games wrap up:
+ Show Spoiler +
Unfortunately, most games were a bit one-sided, even though some were nice to watch and good to learn from.
Observations:
* Tester's play was impeccable. I'd love to have him seen challenged a bit more though
* Idra is as stubborn as ever and chokes if matched up against a supposedly better player (to his credit: He also starts gg-ing if this is the case :-) )
* White-ra's first game against Tester was terrible. Was he so intimidated? Bad decision making, bad micro... The games against TLO were great though, especially the collossi on LT
* TLO's play was quite disappointing to me, probably as I am a huge fan of him. I guess he simply had a bad day (is he playing Terran now?)
* I have to correct myself: TLO's first game against Idra was absolutely amazing (Idra played amazing as well). I guess he could have fared better when EMPing the infestors from time to time and if he had mixed 1-2 BCs earlier into his vikings. Plus: Some marauders and less tanks (to have more gas for vikings) would have been beneficial as well I guess!
* 2-gate openings seem to be better than I thought. Have to look deeper into them. Tester's CB usage was also great to see.
Cheers.
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I was kind of surprised, looking at the results (I didn't watch the tournament), that tester didn't even lose a single game. Is the stereotypical "Koreans are just better at SC" thing still exist?
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On June 04 2010 10:56 kzn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 07:09 darktreb wrote:
Did you SC2-only fans know? Elite players like Flash and Jaedong were and are vastly superior to guys like Tester in every imaginable way in Broodwar. Mechanically, strategically, mind games, everything. So unless for some reason Tester's inferior strategic abilities at BW will translate to being superior strategically at SC2, there's very little reason to believe that Flash or JD wouldn't quickly rise to the top of SC2 as well. Not that I disagree with you, but its pretty hard to evaluate an SCBW player in an incomplete fashion - what makes you think that Flash/Jaedong are better than Tester purely with reference to strategy?
Because they both pioneered far more sustainable strategies than Tester ever did (in this case many versus basically 0), and also had more creative cheeses than him as well.
By sustainable strategy, I basically mean innovations that had an effect on the metagame of a matchup. This is kind of a blurred line, as some cheeses are so good they slightly alter a matchup in that blocking that cheese is now relevant (such as Terran building their first Depot on the high ground on Medusa in TvT to block the SCV Temple glitch-through into otherwise unstoppable high ground proxy Barracks). But for the most part the distinctions are clear, such as 3 Hatch Spire into 5 Hatch Muta, 2 Hatch Muta (GSL S1 finals), the double armory build (which led to understandings about Goliath vs Carriers that basically removed Carriers from PvT for more than a year and permanently killed 2 base Reaver into Carrier), MnM early pressure build to counter Mutas, etc., not to mention countless more subtle innovations many of which are only distinguishable to the trained eye of a pro. Flash himself has said that there are elements of his new "super FD" build against Protoss that he feels he, and only he, fully understands, and therefore he is able to wield it more effectively than anyone else.
Now you can argue that their superior mechanics make all of these things more possible (and they probably did contribute), but when you look at Flash especially when he was first coming up as a pro, he cheesed his way into the ro4 of an OSL at age 14 and kept cheesing until his fundamentals caught up with his mind. Flash is also known as the player with arguably the best in-game decision making ability ever, making him less vulnerable than the average player to unexpected things (nobody is perfect though, as the OSL finals demonstrated). It wouldn't do justice to Jaedong's greatness to call him a mechanical monkey either, though he has certainly benefited significantly from his incredible mechanics.
So anyway, you are right that it's hard to isolate "strategic ability" to the degree where I can say with 100% confidence that Flash and Jaedong are better at purely strategy than Tester, but all the empirical evidence makes me very, very confident.
The "old" player I would most like to see play SC2 is not Boxer, but rather Oov. I would be less confident that Flash/JD are strategically superior to someone like him, though part of me believes that Flash is simply a freak of nature whose natural SC-related abilities are unparalleled.
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Good games, wow tester is good.
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even though tester roflstomped everyone in the tourni, it was still entertaining to watch. great games and a big lol at the youtube comments.
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On June 05 2010 05:39 Abenson wrote:
I was kind of surprised, looking at the results (I didn't watch the tournament), that tester didn't even lose a single game. Is the stereotypical "Koreans are just better at SC" thing still exist?
I watched the finals and Tester gave an atrocious spanking session to Idra. I thought at least at the early stage of the game foreigners could hang in there but there seems to be a big skill gap already, at least from the little I saw of the competitive SC2 scene.
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United States17042 Posts
On June 05 2010 07:44 darktreb wrote:
The "old" player I would most like to see play SC2 is not Boxer, but rather Oov. I would be less confident that Flash/JD are strategically superior to someone like him, though part of me believes that Flash is simply a freak of nature whose natural SC-related abilities are unparalleled.
Just going to go ahead and comment on this part (full comment is a few posts above);
I would really like to see air force ace play in sc2. I think that they would do really really really well, as they have a team full of players that have proven that they already know how to innovate, as well as win. Over half the team has starleague wins, and the other half had had fairly accomplished careers compared to most individuals (sorry yellow ). If kespa switches everyone over to sc2, ace will start coming up on top all the time, as the team that can be the most clever, most innovative, and fastest to learn (probably) without having anywhere near as much practice time.
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EPT
