EPTZerg insn't finished.
[SC2B] Zerg: The Evolution (or Devolution) - Page 5
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IrVeNoJu
Poland61 Posts
Zerg insn't finished. | ||
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Slunk
Germany768 Posts
On April 21 2010 14:18 IdrA wrote: as for roaches, did goons really have a special defined role in sc1? they were just kind of a powerful all purpose unit. that kind of thing isnt necessarily bad. and really given the burrow harass and regen, and the fact that a tiny range is its limiting factor, the roach is more unique than the equivalent sc1 units. Yeah, the dragoons are similar to the roach, but if you compare hydra/roach and lets say zealot/dragoon (the combination of the two most basic units of their respective races), the biggest difference is that with zealot/dragoon you cannot win even in the midgame, while roach/hydra are viable from early to late game. The protoss gateway units were all the same in all matchups in SC1, but in order to be effective they had to be supported by spellcasters or other higher tech units (HT/reaver/arbiter/carrier), observers etc. Gateway units by themselves just melted to terran mech and mass hydras. Yes, you can support hydra/roach aswell, but other than broodlords, nothing is really game changing. | ||
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Zapdos_Smithh
Canada2620 Posts
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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lolreaper
301 Posts
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XicalaAera
United States51 Posts
Great post, btw. Very well written. | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On April 21 2010 20:36 XicalaAera wrote: The Zergling damage nerf is probably my only real problem with zerg right now. I so loved flooding terran bases with 200-300 zerglings and watching it fall in seconds. Ah, good times. Great post, btw. Very well written. really, 150 supply in zerglings? ^^ | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On April 21 2010 19:05 Slunk wrote: Yeah, the dragoons are similar to the roach, but if you compare hydra/roach and lets say zealot/dragoon (the combination of the two most basic units of their respective races), the biggest difference is that with zealot/dragoon you cannot win even in the midgame, while roach/hydra are viable from early to late game. The protoss gateway units were all the same in all matchups in SC1, but in order to be effective they had to be supported by spellcasters or other higher tech units (HT/reaver/arbiter/carrier), observers etc. Gateway units by themselves just melted to terran mech and mass hydras. Yes, you can support hydra/roach aswell, but other than broodlords, nothing is really game changing. thats not true at all, zeal/goon was just fine mid game pvt. yes support units made it stronger and were necessary in some situations, just like infestors banelings and corruptors make hydra roach stronger and are necessary in some situations. to be honest straight zeal/goon pvt was more viable than straight hydra/roach is since the nerf. you let a collosus or templar near hydras and they evaporate and roaches dont tank nearly as well as they did. and, again, this is mostly being judged on games with at least one bad player. you cant just macro and amove against someone who is as good as you in a standard game. | ||
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blae000
Norway1640 Posts
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
On April 21 2010 20:43 IdrA wrote: thats not true at all, zeal/goon was just fine mid game pvt. yes support units made it stronger and were necessary in some situations, just like infestors banelings and corruptors make hydra roach stronger and are necessary in some situations. to be honest straight zeal/goon pvt was more viable than straight hydra/roach is since the nerf. you let a collosus or templar near hydras and they evaporate and roaches dont tank nearly as well as they did. and, again, this is mostly being judged on games with at least one bad player. you cant just macro and amove against someone who is as good as you in a standard game. If you go zealot goon without arbiter or HT support you're asking to be fucked | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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DorF
Sweden961 Posts
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NoxFr
France13 Posts
I would really love seeing another "tactical" unit combined with gling as lurker was... but no lurker please  I want new ! | ||
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Koffiegast
Netherlands346 Posts
Thanks OP for wording everything so well! | ||
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Lollersauce
United States357 Posts
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Slunk
Germany768 Posts
On April 21 2010 20:43 IdrA wrote: thats not true at all, zeal/goon was just fine mid game pvt. yes support units made it stronger and were necessary in some situations, just like infestors banelings and corruptors make hydra roach stronger and are necessary in some situations. to be honest straight zeal/goon pvt was more viable than straight hydra/roach is since the nerf. you let a collosus or templar near hydras and they evaporate and roaches dont tank nearly as well as they did. and, again, this is mostly being judged on games with at least one bad player. you cant just macro and amove against someone who is as good as you in a standard game. In PvT that's kinda true for your main army composition to rely on zealot/goon until arbiters arrive, which are pretty high up the techtree, but not nearly as high as broodlords. Also they are much cheaper in tech and resources, especially with zealot/goon being mineral-heavy. What separates goon/zealot from roach hydra is the fact that protoss in SC1 had a choice in the opening. You could open with DTs and get arbiter off two bases, since you have the tech buildings allready (imagine going for mutalisk harrass into two base broodlord/hydra/roach, not viable at all) or you go for reaver harass or you stay defensive to grab a quick third. SC2 zerg on the other hand is much less flexible there are no beautiful transitions (yet). You start making roaches and hydras and you are forced to keep on doing this or you die. Then you have to hit the right timing to transition to broodlords, you have enough units inorder not to die, but get BLs in time to roll your opponent. I am not saying that roach/hydra is overpowered or something, I just dislike the fact that it is the only branch that works in both non-mirrors. | ||
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Seijuro
52 Posts
zerg isnt finished yet, as IrVeNoJu just said... im not saying zerg is weak, but cmon.... 1) Zerg NEEDS anti air on t1...(and i dont want anyone to say: u got queen/tower or shit like that, its ridiculous how terra/toss can own u within seconds if u aint got a few hydras out just in time.. what about those banshees? wtf is this? that damage is ridiculous, way too strong.. and that range..cmon or those vikings can fuck you up really hard as well.. and sorry to add this, but... marauder+thor combo = really strong ._. 2) Zerg got no "real" way to scout.. oh yea cmon, u cant get in any base if ur not playing against a total noob, so theres no way to scout for you, and if u actually manage to scout with an overlord, its way too late and u'll lose that overlord, terra+toss back again with their nice scout.. 3) i want luuuurkers back o.o =) 4) what is wrong with those mutas? aint of any use, only in zvz and even there its pretty rare 5) whats the use of broodlords or ultras, aint using them anyway, and really expensive..only unit really being used are zerglings, roaches and hydras.. 6) we need a caster.. an useful one.. as in bw and some general problems: a) theres 0 micro in this game... b) if theres a big fight, u cant just kill some workers off of ur enemy, cuz it says "ur drones are being attacked" and not just "ur under attack"... its made way too simple c) games are over way too fast................ one of the reasons u aint getting any broodlords or ultras, it almost never happens that u'll manage to get into late game yea, it may all sounds really noobish and it may look like im crying xD but.. i've just had to get it off my chest and i know, zerg isnt weak, but.. its lacking a few things, it isnt finished yet.. and im not still a bronze player having general problems with this game, im a platinum zerg and its getting worse and worse every day.. people there are pretty ok, but.. still i wouldnt say they are so much better than me, its just SO hard against especially terra | ||
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Turbo.Tactics
Germany675 Posts
do you have any clue what you are talking about? | ||
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Equaoh
Canada427 Posts
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Seijuro
52 Posts
do you even have a beta key? PS: u dont have to answer, its a rhetorical question. | ||
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