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[SC2B] Zerg: The Evolution (or Devolution) - Page 5

Forum Index > News
321 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 15 16 17 Next All
IrVeNoJu
Profile Joined April 2010
Poland61 Posts
April 21 2010 09:36 GMT
#81
I'm a little bit worried about zerg right now, mainly I'm afraid that game will go live with zerg unchanged/unbalanced....;/
Zerg insn't finished.
W.A.M
Slunk
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany768 Posts
April 21 2010 10:05 GMT
#82
On April 21 2010 14:18 IdrA wrote:
as for roaches, did goons really have a special defined role in sc1? they were just kind of a powerful all purpose unit. that kind of thing isnt necessarily bad. and really given the burrow harass and regen, and the fact that a tiny range is its limiting factor, the roach is more unique than the equivalent sc1 units.


Yeah, the dragoons are similar to the roach, but if you compare hydra/roach and lets say zealot/dragoon (the combination of the two most basic units of their respective races), the biggest difference is that with zealot/dragoon you cannot win even in the midgame, while roach/hydra are viable from early to late game. The protoss gateway units were all the same in all matchups in SC1, but in order to be effective they had to be supported by spellcasters or other higher tech units (HT/reaver/arbiter/carrier), observers etc. Gateway units by themselves just melted to terran mech and mass hydras. Yes, you can support hydra/roach aswell, but other than broodlords, nothing is really game changing.
Zapdos_Smithh
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada2620 Posts
April 21 2010 10:16 GMT
#83
What an awesome write-up, nice job.
DannyJ
Profile Joined March 2010
United States5110 Posts
April 21 2010 10:27 GMT
#84
This will all be fixed... in the next expansion.
lolreaper
Profile Joined April 2010
301 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-21 10:44:56
April 21 2010 10:35 GMT
#85
TLO is massing infestors in most of his games and wins often even when he is far behind thanks to their spells, while others preffer to whine zerg has no caster wtf?
XicalaAera
Profile Joined December 2009
United States51 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-21 11:37:05
April 21 2010 11:36 GMT
#86
The Zergling damage nerf is probably my only real problem with zerg right now. I so loved flooding terran bases with 200-300 zerglings and watching it fall in seconds. Ah, good times.

Great post, btw. Very well written.
“Ability is nothing without opportunity.”
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
April 21 2010 11:40 GMT
#87
On April 21 2010 20:36 XicalaAera wrote:
The Zergling damage nerf is probably my only real problem with zerg right now. I so loved flooding terran bases with 200-300 zerglings and watching it fall in seconds. Ah, good times.

Great post, btw. Very well written.


really, 150 supply in zerglings? ^^
beep boop
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
April 21 2010 11:43 GMT
#88
On April 21 2010 19:05 Slunk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2010 14:18 IdrA wrote:
as for roaches, did goons really have a special defined role in sc1? they were just kind of a powerful all purpose unit. that kind of thing isnt necessarily bad. and really given the burrow harass and regen, and the fact that a tiny range is its limiting factor, the roach is more unique than the equivalent sc1 units.


Yeah, the dragoons are similar to the roach, but if you compare hydra/roach and lets say zealot/dragoon (the combination of the two most basic units of their respective races), the biggest difference is that with zealot/dragoon you cannot win even in the midgame, while roach/hydra are viable from early to late game. The protoss gateway units were all the same in all matchups in SC1, but in order to be effective they had to be supported by spellcasters or other higher tech units (HT/reaver/arbiter/carrier), observers etc. Gateway units by themselves just melted to terran mech and mass hydras. Yes, you can support hydra/roach aswell, but other than broodlords, nothing is really game changing.

thats not true at all, zeal/goon was just fine mid game pvt. yes support units made it stronger and were necessary in some situations, just like infestors banelings and corruptors make hydra roach stronger and are necessary in some situations. to be honest straight zeal/goon pvt was more viable than straight hydra/roach is since the nerf. you let a collosus or templar near hydras and they evaporate and roaches dont tank nearly as well as they did.

and, again, this is mostly being judged on games with at least one bad player. you cant just macro and amove against someone who is as good as you in a standard game.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
blae000
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway1640 Posts
April 21 2010 11:47 GMT
#89
nice op.. ttly agree
Liquid
SubtleArt
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
2710 Posts
April 21 2010 12:12 GMT
#90
On April 21 2010 20:43 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2010 19:05 Slunk wrote:
On April 21 2010 14:18 IdrA wrote:
as for roaches, did goons really have a special defined role in sc1? they were just kind of a powerful all purpose unit. that kind of thing isnt necessarily bad. and really given the burrow harass and regen, and the fact that a tiny range is its limiting factor, the roach is more unique than the equivalent sc1 units.


Yeah, the dragoons are similar to the roach, but if you compare hydra/roach and lets say zealot/dragoon (the combination of the two most basic units of their respective races), the biggest difference is that with zealot/dragoon you cannot win even in the midgame, while roach/hydra are viable from early to late game. The protoss gateway units were all the same in all matchups in SC1, but in order to be effective they had to be supported by spellcasters or other higher tech units (HT/reaver/arbiter/carrier), observers etc. Gateway units by themselves just melted to terran mech and mass hydras. Yes, you can support hydra/roach aswell, but other than broodlords, nothing is really game changing.

thats not true at all, zeal/goon was just fine mid game pvt. yes support units made it stronger and were necessary in some situations, just like infestors banelings and corruptors make hydra roach stronger and are necessary in some situations. to be honest straight zeal/goon pvt was more viable than straight hydra/roach is since the nerf. you let a collosus or templar near hydras and they evaporate and roaches dont tank nearly as well as they did.

and, again, this is mostly being judged on games with at least one bad player. you cant just macro and amove against someone who is as good as you in a standard game.


If you go zealot goon without arbiter or HT support you're asking to be fucked
Morrow on ZvP: "I'm not very confident in general vs Protoss because of the imbalance (Yes its imbalanced, get over it)."
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
April 21 2010 12:18 GMT
#91
he was talking about the midgame, if you go pure hydra roach against a fleet of ravens or large number of collosus' with an econ to back it up you're gonna get fucked just as hard.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
DorF
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden961 Posts
April 21 2010 12:22 GMT
#92
Summed up how I feel about the game , but the steps backwards are larger than thoose stepped forward. Since muta micro and such was the fun thing in BW , with nothing extraordinarily fun im going back to play broodwar and hope they fix this game in a year or 4
BW for life !
NoxFr
Profile Joined February 2010
France13 Posts
April 21 2010 12:27 GMT
#93
nice OP indeed
I would really love seeing another "tactical" unit combined with gling as lurker was... but no lurker please
I want new !
Nox.fra at SC2 beta
Koffiegast
Profile Joined February 2010
Netherlands346 Posts
April 21 2010 12:39 GMT
#94
Must post in this epic and the reincarnation of truth topic.

Thanks OP for wording everything so well!
Wut
Lollersauce
Profile Joined April 2010
United States357 Posts
April 21 2010 12:45 GMT
#95
I didn't think Blizzard could make me regret ling/scourge/muta ZvZ, but they did :/
Slunk
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany768 Posts
April 21 2010 12:48 GMT
#96
On April 21 2010 20:43 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2010 19:05 Slunk wrote:
On April 21 2010 14:18 IdrA wrote:
as for roaches, did goons really have a special defined role in sc1? they were just kind of a powerful all purpose unit. that kind of thing isnt necessarily bad. and really given the burrow harass and regen, and the fact that a tiny range is its limiting factor, the roach is more unique than the equivalent sc1 units.


Yeah, the dragoons are similar to the roach, but if you compare hydra/roach and lets say zealot/dragoon (the combination of the two most basic units of their respective races), the biggest difference is that with zealot/dragoon you cannot win even in the midgame, while roach/hydra are viable from early to late game. The protoss gateway units were all the same in all matchups in SC1, but in order to be effective they had to be supported by spellcasters or other higher tech units (HT/reaver/arbiter/carrier), observers etc. Gateway units by themselves just melted to terran mech and mass hydras. Yes, you can support hydra/roach aswell, but other than broodlords, nothing is really game changing.

thats not true at all, zeal/goon was just fine mid game pvt. yes support units made it stronger and were necessary in some situations, just like infestors banelings and corruptors make hydra roach stronger and are necessary in some situations. to be honest straight zeal/goon pvt was more viable than straight hydra/roach is since the nerf. you let a collosus or templar near hydras and they evaporate and roaches dont tank nearly as well as they did.

and, again, this is mostly being judged on games with at least one bad player. you cant just macro and amove against someone who is as good as you in a standard game.


In PvT that's kinda true for your main army composition to rely on zealot/goon until arbiters arrive, which are pretty high up the techtree, but not nearly as high as broodlords. Also they are much cheaper in tech and resources, especially with zealot/goon being mineral-heavy.
What separates goon/zealot from roach hydra is the fact that protoss in SC1 had a choice in the opening. You could open with DTs and get arbiter off two bases, since you have the tech buildings allready (imagine going for mutalisk harrass into two base broodlord/hydra/roach, not viable at all) or you go for reaver harass or you stay defensive to grab a quick third.
SC2 zerg on the other hand is much less flexible there are no beautiful transitions (yet). You start making roaches and hydras and you are forced to keep on doing this or you die. Then you have to hit the right timing to transition to broodlords, you have enough units inorder not to die, but get BLs in time to roll your opponent.
I am not saying that roach/hydra is overpowered or something, I just dislike the fact that it is the only branch that works in both non-mirrors.
Seijuro
Profile Joined December 2009
52 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-21 13:11:41
April 21 2010 12:53 GMT
#97
seriously, im not someone whos shouting out "game is unbalanced" or.. "imba" etc.. i never did in wc3 or bw.. its all about the skill of the players who are facing each other, but seriously..
zerg isnt finished yet, as IrVeNoJu just said...
im not saying zerg is weak, but cmon....

1) Zerg NEEDS anti air on t1...(and i dont want anyone to say: u got queen/tower or shit like that, its ridiculous how terra/toss can own u within seconds if u aint got a few hydras out just in time..
what about those banshees? wtf is this? that damage is ridiculous, way too strong.. and that range..cmon
or those vikings can fuck you up really hard as well..
and sorry to add this, but... marauder+thor combo = really strong ._.


2) Zerg got no "real" way to scout..
oh yea cmon, u cant get in any base if ur not playing against a total noob, so theres no way to scout for you, and if u actually manage to scout with an overlord, its way too late and u'll lose that overlord, terra+toss back again with their nice scout..

3) i want luuuurkers back o.o =)

4) what is wrong with those mutas? aint of any use, only in zvz and even there its pretty rare

5) whats the use of broodlords or ultras, aint using them anyway, and really expensive..only unit really being used are zerglings, roaches and hydras..

6) we need a caster.. an useful one.. as in bw


and some general problems:

a) theres 0 micro in this game...
b) if theres a big fight, u cant just kill some workers off of ur enemy, cuz it says "ur drones are being attacked" and not just "ur under attack"... its made way too simple
c) games are over way too fast................ one of the reasons u aint getting any broodlords or ultras, it almost never happens that u'll manage to get into late game

yea, it may all sounds really noobish and it may look like im crying xD but.. i've just had to get it off my chest

and i know, zerg isnt weak, but.. its lacking a few things, it isnt finished yet..
and im not still a bronze player having general problems with this game, im a platinum zerg and its getting worse and worse every day.. people there are pretty ok, but.. still i wouldnt say they are so much better than me, its just SO hard against especially terra
Turbo.Tactics
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany675 Posts
April 21 2010 12:59 GMT
#98
Dear Seijuro,

do you have any clue what you are talking about?
Zerg - because Browders sons hate 'em
Equaoh
Profile Joined October 2008
Canada427 Posts
April 21 2010 13:00 GMT
#99
Neat, excellent writeup. Playing Z now I definitely feel like all matchups revolve around getting either roaches or hydras quickly depending on what opponent is doing and... then making more of them. There are some situational units like corruptors, infestors or banelings you can make but my game plan doesn't seem to need to evolve past that T2 backbone with range atk upgrades.
Seijuro
Profile Joined December 2009
52 Posts
April 21 2010 13:01 GMT
#100
Dear Turbo.Tactics,

do you even have a beta key?


PS: u dont have to answer, its a rhetorical question.
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