Amazingly badass post. It's like reading an adventure. And I absolutely agree on flaws with zerglings. With the new game mechanics (aka clumping) and new upgrades (cough hellion damage upgrade) massing lings with your army in ZvT is worthless. Instead of soaking damage or dealing damage like they used to, they just melt... literally.

I can't speak for ZvP, but if Protoss gets a good amount of colossi, it feels to me like lings are made useless yet again.

CursOr

United States6335 Posts

April 21 2010 06:04 GMT

#65

This is fucking brilliant.
I'm hoping a lot of people at blizzard read this... this is not only full of useful critiques but also points out specific holes in the Zerg build that can be fixed to re-vitalize the race.
Mad props man. I was waiting for a thread like this to drop. You can really tell how much thought you've put into what makes the new Zerg different from the old... in many different aspects. So welldone.
Make everyone who's developing SC2 read this!

evilcamel

United States9 Posts

April 21 2010 06:13 GMT

#66

Great post! I've only played a few games of sc2 but I agree Zerg is a little boring.

I would like Blizzard to keep going from where they left off in BW but maybe Blizzard is trying to leave room for more fun units in the expansions. Like they did with sc1 and BW. With BW Blizzard added medics, valkyries, lurkers, guardians, devourers, dark templar, and corsairs. Sorrry if i left anything out. If they included all the goodies in the first one the expansions would end up being extra campaigns.

omninmo

2349 Posts

April 21 2010 06:14 GMT

#67

awesome article. tasteful yet biting.

On April 21 2010 12:40 DaEm0niCuS wrote:
Zerg is stale because they are saving units for the next 2 "expansions".

this is exactly how i feel.

Luddite

United States2315 Posts

April 21 2010 06:32 GMT

#68

I really like this article. Zerg was my main race in BW, but I have very little interest in playing them in SC2. They just seem so bland and boring. I'm sure blizzard will find a way to make them as powerful as the other races, but I'm not so sure they'll have any interesting strategies without an expansion.

The Terminator

Australia46 Posts

April 21 2010 06:38 GMT

#69

sars u were never b/b- zerg player lol

Carnivorous Sheep

Baa?21243 Posts

April 21 2010 07:37 GMT

#70

OMG THE ZERGLING PICTURE AGAIN <3

Great write-up, sums up everything nicely.

HoracE

United Kingdom180 Posts

April 21 2010 07:46 GMT

#71

brilliant post! although to be fair 1800 in platinum isnt a bad player!

Synwave

United States2803 Posts

April 21 2010 08:26 GMT

#72

Really nice write up. Pondering various things you said but so far I don't see anything I disagree with and a whole lot I do agree with as someone who plays a fair chunk of the zerg in sc2.

wintergt

Belgium1335 Posts

April 21 2010 08:47 GMT

#73

Saying zerglings in sc2 suck detracted from whatever point you were trying to make.

kickinhead

Switzerland2069 Posts

April 21 2010 08:56 GMT

#74

It's a very nice read and I agree with much of the stuff, but I have to disagree on certain points you've made:

1) Zergling support and other Melee-Units:
Personally, I think of the Banelings as kind of a Melee Unit and it's also very great when supported by mass-speedlings, although it's not in the same way as Mutas/Ultras+lings in BW, where the lings where the DMG-Dealers and the other Units were there to soak up DMG, nonetheless theres a good synergy there.
Also, I think the Infestor with fungal growth is a very good support-Unit for the Zergling.

Zergling Counterattacks and runby's:
In your text, it sounded like Zergling-harrass and counterattacks weren't viable in SC2 anymore, with what I would clearly disagree. Speedlings are so fast and it's very hard to block them, so they get into the enemys base fast and easy. Only problem is, that the AI is kinda messed up when you want to attack probes with anything, so you need to micro them carefully.

But I totally agree with you on all the other points and I think even with infinite Group-selection, Mutamicro wouldn't be IMBA, because not only would Mutastacking get better with bigger Groups of Mutas stacked together, but also Splash-DMG, from the Thor, HSM, Archon. Storm, Fungal Growth etc. so you could easily balance it by tweaking the Units that deal splash-DMG.

About the Hive-Tech: This one is kinda messed up for Z now anyways, with Broodlords being totally OP, Ultralisks so rarely used etc.

Scorch

Austria3371 Posts

April 21 2010 08:58 GMT

#75

Thanks for your post Saracen, great read!

Pixel.

Netherlands287 Posts

April 21 2010 08:59 GMT

#76

Great writeup! Lets hope that the zerg will change in the future in SC2.

TSL-Lore

United States412 Posts

April 21 2010 09:04 GMT

#77

I believe that one of the major problems with Sc2 is that there are no tier 2 units that provide the same reward for the attention spent as there was for SCBW. The two tier 2 choices were: The Lurker and the Mutalisk. Both of which require a huge amount of attention and skill to use properly, but boy, when you did use them properly, the pay off was huge.

The two options we currently have in Sc2 are the Hydralisk and the Mutalisk. The Hydralisk is slower and fatter and promotes a-moving. Not nearly as exciting to play with or watch as the tier 2 equivalent from SCBW. The Mutalisk on the other hand is arguably the same as before, except you cannot really micro them anymore. Thus, the 2 options you have in the mid-game (arguably the most important part of the game, especially since hive tech is so boring/weak now) lack any sort of good attention-to-payoff ratio type units. Both the hydralisk and the mutalisk simply cannot compare to the way the lurker and the mutalisk allowed for beautiful and enjoyable gameplay.

i agree that the baneling is a good addition.. However, with the abundance of relatively early "armored" units, the baneling quickly loses its potency, and thus doesn't get much screentime past the early-mid game.

In short, blizz needs to add or modify units to give more pay-off for attention spent on them.

ProoM

Lithuania1741 Posts

April 21 2010 09:07 GMT

#78

Wow nice writeup, haven't seen such good article for a while now ;P.

AmstAff

Germany949 Posts

April 21 2010 09:10 GMT

#79

op is right. i hate to play every game against roach/hydra into broodlords. and if i go random and end up getting z i go mass roach into broodlords or roach/hydra into broodlords.