EPT[SC2] Zerg & Larvae Injection - Page 4
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Fraidnot
United States824 Posts
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StorrZerg
United States13919 Posts
 but that means they will probably get Nerfed soon  | ||
ArvickHero
10387 Posts
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IceCube
Croatia1403 Posts
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Ideas
United States8100 Posts
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tedster
984 Posts
This is stupid good on a number of levels, but Hot_Bid is the first reviewer to point out the craziest and most counter-intuitive issue - zerg now has the EASIEST time reaching mad drone saturation, instead of the hardest, and benefits from it more than any other race, since they can pretty easily reach infinite unit production rates (infinite larvae) with the smallest expenditure. Zerg can go Sauron right from the start, because they get a million drones and a million larvae without having to give anything up. This also means that harassing zerg workers will be worse than harassing every other worker type, because they can rebuild them in a single wave of larvae with only a 25 sec recovery time from virtually any harassment. That dumbs the game down tremendously and means that zerg can focus entirely on overrun tactics all over the map, expanding everywhere, and ignoring defense for the most part. These are all really big problems and, while nothing says zerg has to have specific characteristics displayed in BW, the current required gameplan is linear and uninteresting, and it's because of spawn larvae. Basically, where the T and P mechanics provide an economic advantage or a slightly better tool for what they already do, Queens make Z better at every conceivable avenue of gameplay, simultaneously. The difficulty scouting zerg is just icing on the cake (coin flips rule) | ||
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LeperKahn
Romania1839 Posts
On September 03 2009 10:05 ArvickHero wrote: So.. did the guys playing P try using Forcefeild to FE with? I think that would help a lot against super crazy ling rushes and hydra breaks | ||
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mptj
United States485 Posts
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ShaperofDreams
Canada2492 Posts
Tell me, do you think that making the queen a melee unit (not able to kill scout/overlord fast) would make this ability less abusive? Also, they could lower the injection count couldn't they? So that the Zerg player has to precariously balance their play and make sure they have exactly enough fighters to defend, while having a steady but not overpowered expansion/dronepump rate. The game should be balanced so that a Zerg player doing this perfectly should have the same economic/industrial rate as a Protoss or Terran doing this perfectly. The game would become more interesting because it would focus more on a Jaedong/Bisu/Flash style of play, either having just enough to defend while expanding or having just enough to trick/break the opponent. It would be all about economic management. The player who does this best wins. This is also easily testable, 2 skillful testers could agree to share vision, see how many offensive units eachother has (or agree not to make any) and simply pump, they can now see who has more military power/pump power after this explosion of economy. If one pumps faster/better by doing the same thing it's imbalanced, and should be tweaked a little. After the game the players can check stats like resources/second and units/second and judge the comparative military power of both players. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On September 03 2009 08:06 Hot_Bid wrote: After Blizzcon 2009, I can safely say that because of Larvae Injection, the Zerg Queen was the single most important unit in StarCraft 2. Jeez, after such a huge wall of text, we find out that the queen is still just as overpowered as it was in SC1... Seriously though- very nice read, thanks for the writeup :D | ||
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Eatme
Switzerland3919 Posts
On September 03 2009 08:36 toopham wrote: good writeup. very interesting. I am confuse about 1 part though. In the Macro section you wrote: "With Zerg you select your hatches, hit "S" to select all the larvae, and press "H" 10 times to make 10 hydralisks. Easy." In BW you select the hatches, press S and it selects ALL the larvae. So why would you have to press H 10 times to make hydras? Did they change it in SC2 where pressing H only use up 1 larvae? I was thinking about this too. Normal BW 9 hydras is 4sh5sh6sh=9 keys pressed. SC2 9 hydras would be 4shhhhhhhhh=11 keys pressed. Must say it was a really nice and entertaining writeup. Hats off really. | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On September 03 2009 10:11 Ideas wrote: how did you guys get to play it so much? I only got to play it like 10 times Press pass. | ||
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andiCR
Costa Rica2273 Posts
oh and btw, woulld you able to talk to David Kim about this? | ||
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win8282
Korea (South)454 Posts
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deathgod6
United States5064 Posts
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ShaperofDreams
Canada2492 Posts
Off-topic: Kennigit thanks for recommending "The Game" by Niel Strauss, it's a really interesting story and has sparked a huge interest in psychology for me. I read about 500 pages in the span of 24 hours  I also recommend it to everyone, male or female. | ||
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Asslap
United States11 Posts
Really nice catch hotbid, although how the ass did blizz not figure this out? seems so obvs. No joke, more then playing SC2, I am looking forward to playing an SC2 mod for BW. | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On September 03 2009 10:11 Ideas wrote: how did you guys get to play it so much? I only got to play it like 10 times Well basically what I did was - Nevermind. | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
Is it possible that we will see maps that allow for FE terran to work vs zerg or maps that are absolutely huge so that rush timings occur later? I just have the blizzard sc1 maps in my head and how they really did NOT favor anything close to a macro game. | ||
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tedster
984 Posts
On September 03 2009 10:48 vaderseven wrote: How much did map size and map layout effect this build of sc2? Is it possible that we will see maps that allow for FE terran to work vs zerg or maps that are absolutely huge so that rush timings occur later? I just have the blizzard sc1 maps in my head and how they really did NOT favor anything close to a macro game. This won't matter with the current queen setup because the queen lets zerg build up a giant macro machine faster, too. Being able to sauron zerg right from the beginning is going to be crazy good regardless of map size =/ | ||
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