[SC2] Zerg & Larvae Injection - Page 21

zatic

Zurich15366 Posts

September 13 2009 00:04 GMT

#401

On September 12 2009 13:00 Joneagle_X wrote:
And the probe's movement speed is slightly faster than that of the Zergling un-upgraded so it's possible to dodge unless they've blocked the choke.

Maybe this is the source of all the confusion. Zerglings kill workers easily even off creep a-moving, they are sightly faster. As far as I know creep does not even affect Zergling speed.

Liquid`Jinro

Sweden33719 Posts

September 13 2009 01:10 GMT

#402

On September 12 2009 09:32 Manifesto7 wrote:

Show nested quote +

First of all, Karune did not address the point of HB article. He talked about how to defend against a rush. That is not the point here.

How can you assert that workers can scout vs a ranged unit and zerglings? Like, how would you do it exactly? You can't do it in BW with "horrible path finding" so how can you do it in SC2 with better path finding?

Also, don't you think that using the scan early will hurt your economy?

Finally, how exactly would burrowed roaches affect zvz? It is a nice thought, but how would it change the matchup?

To be fair, I can easily see how he'd perceive that as the point of HBs post, as he mentioned how everyone died to 1 hatch hydra builds.

Of course, that's not all he talked about but I can see why that would be his response.

Joneagle_X

United States26 Posts

September 14 2009 00:18 GMT

#403

@ Zatic,

In the last build all Zerg units increased movement by ~30% on creep according to Blizzard. Zerglings without the speed upgrade were slightly slower than a probe. Moving in a straight line Zerglings were unable to catch a probe. If you've played the game and were catching probes off Creep I don't know what to tell you. Either your opponent was letting you catch the probe by not giving it commands or you were intercepting it... On Creep, however, they can easily catch them.

The Queen, however, has a larger difference in speed movement when she is on/off Creep. I'd estimate it (visually) to be around 50% faster when on Creep. She's a sloth off Creep.

Unless this has changed since BlizzCon....

jdr_

United States78 Posts

February 18 2010 12:56 GMT

#404

Almost all the problems you're posing as unsolvable would be solvable with better play.

Like oh well I can't know what he's doing, because he has a queen at his base to kill my scout. Well congratulations, you now know what zergs have been dealing with in starcraft for 12 years, you're now playing somewhat in the dark. You can still scout on 9 and go take a look, but after 30 seconds you're going to have a marine kill you and from there the terran player can do any kind of gay deviation he wants.

I mean, you're talking about LOL IM ABLE TO 1 HATCH ALL IN GUYS THAT ARE FAST EXPANDING WITHOUT ANY KNOWLEDGE OF WHETHER OR NOT FAST EXPANDING EVEN MAKES SENSE IN THIS NEW GAME.

Your friends were dumb for trying to FE with terran/protoss in the first place, they should've been playing one base builds just like you were, and defending their ramp with whatever units counter hydraling. In SC1 it was always the case that 1 base P/T was better than 1 base zerg and thusfar we have no reason to believe otherwise. I don't know, if zerg really is imbalanced as you claim, it'll undoubtedly get fixed before the release date, but I doubt it's as bad as you claim.

Funnytoss

Taiwan1471 Posts

February 18 2010 20:13 GMT

#405

Better play in of itself isn't the solution, because the problem is not just the difficulty in scouting, but the fact that this aforementioned difficulty in scouting multiplies the effect that a crapload of larva will have. The base of the problem is that (given that SC2 is an RTS with imperfect information) Zerg simply has too much flexibility with the option to make a ton of workers, or a ton of units, or *both* to a certain extent (which is something they couldn't do in BW) without really sacrificing anything.

Frobert

Canada113 Posts

March 04 2010 18:55 GMT

#406

The problem seems to be the queen, more specifically her ability to be a mobile scout killer and a larva factory at the same time. The advantages of having a cheaper and more productive unit (Queen vs. second hatch) are great and they come without the risks of investing in a 2 hatch. I think it would be an interesting addition to gameplay if larva injection was only available to queens if they permanently incorporated themselves into a hatchery. This mutation would make them a part of the building, giving it energy and the larva injection ability. The goal of this in balancing would be to give players the choice of a base defender/expander/healer or increased production in the early game. In order to have both, one would have to invest the same amount of minerals as it would take to get a second hatch. It would also make a hatch with a queen attached a larger investment (450 minerals).

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