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On November 07 2008 02:35 Mynock wrote:
Mandalor, your plan has a flaw in that if the random green townie dies before the DT, then the whole work is down the drain. There also other minor flaws in it that would make it difficult (like DTs using up checks on townies instead of suspects, the question of trust, etc...).
The plan isn't bad PER SE, but needs modifications. Also, there are alternatives, like if a DT can pinpoint 3 or more mafia they come out and share their findings. We still have 2 detectives left, so that would be 6 dead mafia, add Ace, and we can cope with 3 more on our own.
Also, about the alliterative clues: I highly doubt that the words appearing in the clues area are in fact meaningful by themselves, and what makes me think that, is simply the fact that Chuiu wouldn't want this lot of extra work for himself for no apparent reason. I'm inclined to think that the alliterations have more of a role in it, and it might not be the first letters of a person's name, but maybe the last ones, or just the person with most of those letters in it, or the first letter of their first posts, I dunno...
Like I said, I'm not that good with clues interpretation myself, but MTF's interpretations seem a bit far-fetched. Taking me as an example, I could easily be connected to the "man" clue due to my profile picture, or the "nefarious" as a mynock is a malicious being, etc... Every word in those clues is so strange and specific by itself, that it could be interpreted as a clue. That is, because Chuiu had his work cut out already, trying to limit himself to certain letters.
Im inclined to agree with you that the alliterations are more important for me i took it as a link to the general arts in general, ie music, poetry, music, acting. Last night before i hit the sac i did a quick scan of the profiles and the like of everyone in the game and came across this.
"All the sounds of the Earth are like music" - Oscar Hammerfeld III from Infundibulum's profile, google the quote and you find out that he meant to quote Oscar Hammerstein II who was a writer, producer and director of musicals http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Hammerstein_II
As such, he is a suspect for me at the moment
Infundibulum – reference to Oscar Hammerstein II
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I'm very confused about why either of you hold the opinions you do. Firstly, to Mynock, how are you supposed to narrow down suspects at all using these methods? Either one of two things happens, no matter where in that persons name you choose for the letter to show up:
A) You get a lot of suspects that you have nothing else on.
B) You get a one or two suspects that you have nothing else on.
Either way makes absolutely no sense, as it's either too easy or too hard to connect today to anybody. It's a waste of a clue opportunity. And to refute your comment on my own analysis, each of those paragraphs, despite the abundance of adjectives, has a followable theme. (with the exception of the Neighbor, which is all over the place) That's what I used to map out my clues, not taking random words from the paragraphs.
As for yours, BC: I'm glad you're thinking more abstractly, but the entire Day post cannot be dedicated to just one mafia, and thus cannot be a single centralized idea.
Edit: This is not to say that the alliteration is neccessarily something to be ignored, merely that it cannot be our only clue.
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4492 Posts
That is why you need cross-referencing, and not just going off of one day's worth of clues, be it alliteration or the words themselves.
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The most important thing right now is to find someone to lynch first, Ace is gonna be dead tonight anyway so we need a new lynch subject.
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On November 07 2008 02:58 Mynock wrote:
That is why you need cross-referencing, and not just going off of one day's worth of clues, be it alliteration or the words themselves.
Which is what I'm working on at present. But, your own solution to the matter still makes no logical sense given Chuiu's past and the presumed aptitude of the town.
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4492 Posts
It does make sense, because Chuiu never wrote in alliteration before. There is also something else that you seem to miss, namely that these sentences don't even make sense. There are certain "odd words out" in there, that don't belong in at all, like: "actively accusing an abrasion abhorrent and animating" - this makes no sense whatsoever. Same with "as man made most merrily memories the milestone materializing." Or "inflated Caller into inextricable." And both "Nastily needling nuggets" as well as "narrowed nukes nearer" don't really make any sense either.
The rest of the clues can be transcribed and interpreted as basic actions, like "moves closer, moved away, attacked, defended, died, etc...", but unless I really missed something, the ones I quoted make no sense to me whatsoever, and thus stand out oddly.
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On November 07 2008 02:53 MTF wrote:
I'm very confused about why either of you hold the opinions you do. Firstly, to Mynock, how are you supposed to narrow down suspects at all using these methods? Either one of two things happens, no matter where in that persons name you choose for the letter to show up:
A) You get a lot of suspects that you have nothing else on.
B) You get a one or two suspects that you have nothing else on.
Either way makes absolutely no sense, as it's either too easy or too hard to connect today to anybody. It's a waste of a clue opportunity. And to refute your comment on my own analysis, each of those paragraphs, despite the abundance of adjectives, has a followable theme. (with the exception of the Neighbor, which is all over the place) That's what I used to map out my clues, not taking random words from the paragraphs.
As for yours, BC: I'm glad you're thinking more abstractly, but the entire Day post cannot be dedicated to just one mafia, and thus cannot be a single centralized idea.
Edit: This is not to say that the alliteration is neccessarily something to be ignored, merely that it cannot be our only clue.
yes, but the overarching theme could point to one mafia, with small clues in each paragraph devoted to the other mafia.
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On November 07 2008 03:12 Mynock wrote:
It does make sense, because Chuiu never wrote in alliteration before. There is also something else that you seem to miss, namely that these sentences don't even make sense. There are certain "odd words out" in there, that don't belong in at all, like: "actively accusing an abrasion abhorrent and animating" - this makes no sense whatsoever. Same with "as man made most merrily memories the milestone materializing." Or "inflated Caller into inextricable." And both "Nastily needling nuggets" as well as "narrowed nukes nearer" don't really make any sense either.
The rest of the clues can be transcribed and interpreted as basic actions, like "moves closer, moved away, attacked, defended, died, etc...", but unless I really missed something, the ones I quoted make no sense to me whatsoever, and thus stand out oddly.
"actively accusing an abrasion abhorrent and animating"
Set into motion, Anonymous attacked, actively accusing Empyrean of a light wound that Man finds loathsome/insulting and moves him into action. (being the death of Empyrean)
"as man made most merrily memories the milestone materializing"
Alventenie mindlessly massaged as Man made idle conversation about pleasant times in the past, during which time the milestone (a reference to a changing point, which is right before Alventenie dies) appears.
"inflated Caller into inextricable"
Insulted, Individual saw Caller's criticism as open revolt and [killed Caller*] in an impossibly complex way.
*the inflated is literally the only thing that doesn't make sense in this sentence
"Nastily needling nuggets"
With mean intent, Neighbor needled (to pierce with objects) Fishball with a small lump of something.
"narrowed nukes nearer"
The evil-minded Neighbor, ill-intent in mind, focused his weapon closer to Fishball.
It's all there, in the words. Just not spelled out so clearly.
Also, I never said that the alliteration means nothing. Just that it would be faulty logic to think it has anything to do with the letters of anyone's names.
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On November 07 2008 03:30 MTF wrote:
"inflated Caller into inextricable"
Insulted, Individual saw Caller's criticism as open revolt and [killed Caller*] in an impossibly complex way.
*the inflated is literally the only thing that doesn't make sense in this sentence
To inflate = to blow up, perhaps using explosives? Just a thought.
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On November 07 2008 03:15 fusionsdf wrote:
yes, but the overarching theme could point to one mafia, with small clues in each paragraph devoted to the other mafia.
Very much a possibility.
On November 07 2008 03:36 Scorch wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2008 03:30 MTF wrote:
"inflated Caller into inextricable"
Insulted, Individual saw Caller's criticism as open revolt and [killed Caller*] in an impossibly complex way.
*the inflated is literally the only thing that doesn't make sense in this sentence To inflate = to blow up, perhaps using explosives? Just a thought.
Haha, I kept picturing him sticking an air pump into Caller's mouth, but explosives seem much more likely. :p
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On November 07 2008 02:18 XCetron wrote:
I think the clue in "Man" can be a possible connection to BloodyC0bbler, here are my reasonings:
His user name is BloodyC0bbler, perhaps "man murderously mutilated Alventenie monstrously" is a reference to that.
Also another phrase in the "Man" description: "as man made most merrily memories the milestone materializing". CB's quote says "Quote Sweet Water and Light Laughter" , maybe its connected, the merrily and laughter, as those two usually accompany each other. Also "Alventenie mindlessly massaged" perhaps he was in the bathtub, so "Sweet water" is linked to that.
How was that looked over? I agree with this....It makes sense...
Bloody cobbler....Sounds very gore filled.....Sounds extremely plausible....
I think vigi Ace is better than lynching him....its a sure fire mafia kill, we won't get many of those, so its better than randomly sending vigis after townies....So I disagree with fusion on that...
GOD no mayor, can't trust anyone....this makes it difficult....kinda suspicious that fusion said to lynch him instead....vigi hits can't be blocked unless a paramedic's involved...@_@
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On November 07 2008 02:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:as could you, or every other player here, I merely observed that due to the nature of my name, for your reasons the connection is slim.
Or it could just be strong, if you think of cobbler as the dessert....
EDIT:
SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST
Forgive me, I won't do it again @_@
I forgot....And had two windows open...
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On November 07 2008 03:44 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2008 02:18 XCetron wrote:
I think the clue in "Man" can be a possible connection to BloodyC0bbler, here are my reasonings:
His user name is BloodyC0bbler, perhaps "man murderously mutilated Alventenie monstrously" is a reference to that.
Also another phrase in the "Man" description: "as man made most merrily memories the milestone materializing". CB's quote says "Quote Sweet Water and Light Laughter" , maybe its connected, the merrily and laughter, as those two usually accompany each other. Also "Alventenie mindlessly massaged" perhaps he was in the bathtub, so "Sweet water" is linked to that.
How was that looked over? I agree with this....It makes sense... Bloody cobbler....Sounds very gore filled.....Sounds extremely plausible.... I think vigi Ace is better than lynching him....its a sure fire mafia kill, we won't get many of those, so its better than randomly sending vigis after townies....So I disagree with fusion on that... GOD no mayor, can't trust anyone....this makes it difficult....kinda suspicious that fusion said to lynch him instead....vigi hits can't be blocked unless a paramedic's involved...@_@
so what its better to lynch and get a 100% guaranteed kill on people you dont want to risk vigi'ing because you dont want to kill people you arent sure of?
does that make any sense at all?
You are 100% sure Ace is mafia. Lynching 100% guarantees he will die tonight.
You are X% sure someone else is mafia. Vigi'ing gives you X% chance they will die tonight
not lynching ace (and risking him getting lucky and surviving) makes absolutely no sense and doesnt benefit town at all
and lynches cant be blocked in any way (there is no pardoner this game) so wtf are you talking about
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As such,
### I vote to lynch Ace
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How does me being a potential dessert be a strong connection? the last meal clue from day 1 already links to like 4-5 people, adding me to it makes it picking between a bunch of people who due to the alliteration could link to everyone on it. I do appreciate the looking into clues, but its more fruitful looking somewhere that will get you a mafia.
I'm off to work for 9 hours, be back later tonight to continue this.
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On November 07 2008 03:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
How does me being a potential dessert be a strong connection? the last meal clue from day 1 already links to like 4-5 people, adding me to it makes it picking between a bunch of people who due to the alliteration could link to everyone on it. I do appreciate the looking into clues, but its more fruitful looking somewhere that will get you a mafia.
Honestly I didn't think of the first day clues with this set yet...
But I was referring to how cobblers get messy....The attack was messy....That's why I said Chuiu could of been pointing the clue at you...But you just reminded me of the last meal clue....
@_@
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Well, look at it this way.
1: If we lynch someone we are SURE of, vigil has to hit someone we're not 100% sure of so thats a risk, if they dont then thats a night waste and less townies the next day. One thing to note that if the vigils are gonna be killing random people, those people could be protected by paramedics and we don't know who is who so that could be a waste of Vigil AND paramedics on the same night.
2: If we lynch someone we aren't sure of, that's also a risk just like we lynched Folca. But at night Vigil can kill the 100% mafia and since he is 100%, no one is gonna protect him.
or we can somehow find like 2 more 100% mafias, but I don't think thats gonna happen before the second night.
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Before anyone tries to say that the amount of little correlation between the days disproves my earlier clue analysis, consider two facts about the previous games run by Chuiu. Firstly, not every mafia member is in every post, even in the very first one. Mafia tend to make what seems to be random appearances rather than strictly consecutive ones. Secondly, remember that not all clues to the same person are going to be so obviously connected from the start. My success last game was partially due to having had a full six days of clues for me to start with when I began analysing, giving me a lot of material to work with. This is only our second day.
Possible connections between Day 1 and Day 2:
Anonymous:
"The former mayor flung downward violently and lunged back and forth trying to escape."
Just an example of quick movement, not a very strong connection.
"A few people didn't know what was going on but a riot broke out quickly."
Strong reactive quality mixed with speed.
Man:
Can't find any connections.
Individual:
Can't find any connections.
Neighbor:
"Vengeance was the theme and they felt nothing but ill regard for many of Chuiu's accusers."
Strong mention of the open ill-intent aspect of Neighbor.
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On November 07 2008 02:35 Mynock wrote:
Mandalor, your plan has a flaw in that if the random green townie dies before the DT, then the whole work is down the drain. There also other minor flaws in it that would make it difficult (like DTs using up checks on townies instead of suspects, the question of trust, etc...).
The plan isn't bad PER SE, but needs modifications. Also, there are alternatives, like if a DT can pinpoint 3 or more mafia they come out and share their findings. We still have 2 detectives left, so that would be 6 dead mafia, add Ace, and we can cope with 3 more on our own.
Of course if the townie dies first, it was meaningless, but mafia will try to pin down blues and there are certain ways to be successful at that even without the town making any mayor mistakes.
You're right when you say that DTs checking townies is a waste of a role check, but a dead dt that never spoke is worse. The question of trust is not an issue, the townie should not trust the "dt" at all until he died. You're right tho, the plan needs modification.
What about this: The DT should use his role checks for suspects ONLY. If, however, a suspect turns out to be a townie, he should pm him.
On November 07 2008 02:23 fusionsdf wrote:
mandalor: I think its dumb since a: dts are going to random people and PMing "hey Im DT LOLOLL"
which is a bad idea
second, we cant stop mafia from PMing random people "hey Im DT lololol"
Also, keep in mind that while centralizing allows us to coordinate, it also makes us (generally) more vulnerable to mafia infiltration and manipulation
Well, none of that is an issue. Let the mafia pm random people. What's the problem with that? That might even be helpful once all detectives and jacks are dead, townies can do the math.
We don't centralize, we just spread information and the mafia won't be able to find out who was pmed.
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Thats a good point, mandalor got my trust.
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EPT
