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On March 19 2008 12:28 unsoundlogic wrote:
If you think about it from the mafia POV, they tie up the saboteur on empyrean every time. With 3 other detectives, you can still find out who voted for the major lynch candidates (2-3), and maybe even have room to target specific people. That, and vigilantes and other powerful townies are free to rape.
Empyrean can be verified once as mafia or not, and he can give public information gathered by other dts and PMed to him, without revealing the identities of the other dts. If he is mayor or pardoner, he is protected and can still post what other dts send him. He'd become kind of a public announcer person that can give data that townies normally wouldnt get w/o a dt.
As long as empyrean gets a protected role and is dt, then we get a huge advantage.
you're trusting someone before there is any accountability, ignore anyone's promises or word.
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Hmm, having more time to read Ace's plans for action, he would be a better mayor. But I believe Empryeam in the role of a pardoner would be good so I will keep my vote.
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the thing about tying up mafia's roleblocker..
it's not like they have anything better to roleblock anyway. if they want someone not to act, they can kill them, and it's unlikely that they'll find out a jack or medic any time soon (and once again, if they do, they can just kill them)
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On March 19 2008 12:28 unsoundlogic wrote:
If you think about it from the mafia POV, they tie up the saboteur on empyrean every time. With 3 other detectives, you can still find out who voted for the major lynch candidates (2-3), and maybe even have room to target specific people. That, and vigilantes and other powerful townies are free to rape.
Empyrean can be verified once as mafia or not, and he can give public information gathered by other dts and PMed to him, without revealing the identities of the other dts. If he is mayor or pardoner, he is protected and can still post what other dts send him. He'd become kind of a public announcer person that can give data that townies normally wouldnt get w/o a dt.
As long as empyrean gets a protected role and is dt, then we get a huge advantage.
This is assuming empyrean is telling the truth. That is impossible to tell atm. (Well if chuiu goes nuts and say he is but...) Either way, vigilantes and other powerful townies are as free to rape as they want. Furthermore, gathering information is pretty much the basis of me and ghar's platforms. I do not see how him being a DT as mayor would help us anymore than being a DT but unannounced. Again, there being no way of verifying his spot. (without the 4 REAL dts saying they are dts which would hurt more or as much as a mafia mayor).
Ultimately, we either vote empyrean and he has told the truth. Good.
Or, we just ignore him as this could easily be a mafian ploy to get mayor. The only way he could be found to be false is to give up some real detectives. Bad.
And yes, the mafia POV is they tie up empyrean every turn (until they figure out another position). But this costs the town 1 role where before the mafia would have had to guess what townies had what.
Edit: wow like 4 people beat me while writing this.
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On March 18 2008 20:41 xDark.Carnivalx wrote:
I think i'll post up some of my suspicions/connections...
For 'The Wolf' - "The Wolf approached "Sorry Chuiu, I gotta do this I hope you understand" - part of CTStalker's quote in his profile is "I bear no grudge against you" which relates to the wolf apologizing etc. also 'the wolf' meaning a wolf, which a wolf stalks it's prey and chases them down relatively fast, which relates to 'Stalker' in ctstalkers username. So far that's the best connection i've made with that clue.
Next, Eddie, eddie is portrayed as the mafia leader. which i agree with caller could mean someone in teamliquid who has a high position or is seen as a leader, but zeks quote is "With great power comes great responsibility." Which may relate to having a position of power, which running the mafia would be. Again just a connection, i'm not saying anyone is mafia just connection clues to things.
I think those 2 should be in the top list of who to lynch first, pretty good connections made by xdark.carnivalx
1-Zeks
2-CTStalker
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On March 19 2008 12:26 ahrara_ wrote:
Shallow, on this page alone you have three posts that pretty much contribute nothing. I'm sure everybody appreciates your clue analysis from before, but the pointless one liners are annoying. There are enough posts to wade through already, and you've made 20 or so such posts already today. Please stop.
I actually find a lot of his one liners pretty funny. 
I suggest all of us go back and re-read the topic, especially anything concerning Empyrean. As we get further and further from his defense posts, it becomes easier and easier to forget about how credible it seemed of him to be a detective. I'm trying to do this with an open mind, and his defense of himself leads me to believe that he is a detective.
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I think that's a good interpretation I highly doubt that wolves are a red herring and is an actual clue. Therefore I too believe CTStalker is a likely mafia.
Edit: clarity.
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On March 19 2008 07:54 ahrara_ wrote:
CLUES AT THIS POINT ARE USELESS.
All this pointless, unsubstantiated finger pointing is annoying, QUIT IT.
When a lot of them start to add up, and there's behavioral clues to add to it, then it becomes worth talking about. A lot of people were lynched last game on a whim. Let's not do that again. The clues pointing to Ghar aren't very sound at all. I don't buy them for a second, but if a lot of them started to suggest him loosely, then I'll consider it some more. In fact, I would ask that clue analysis be kept to yourself for now, because it makes you a target and it causes unneeded and unwarranted suspicions amongst townies. Although you should by all means continue analyzing, just post them ONLY when you have a strong case against someone. This and this clue might point to this person is pure shit. The town can only be hurt by this pointless finger pointing.
I actually find a lot of his one liners pretty funny.
I really don't.
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We'll have to wait until more clues come in. At this stage, preliminaries are all well and good, but with nothing at all to cross-reference them with, any accusations should be taken with many, many grains of salt.
Which, of course, we all know.
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don't jump to any conclusions just yet guys
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Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 07:54 ahrara_ wrote:I actually find a lot of his one liners pretty funny. I really don't.
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I think those 2 should be in the top list of who to lynch first, pretty good connections made by xdark.carnivalx
1-Zeks
2-CTStalker
This is just bad logic. You can't go about lynching people based on one clue. A lot of clues from last game were misinterpreted so that innocents were lynched. People ignored behavioral clues. Had they paid attention to how people posted, Empyrean would've been long dead. There are people whose behaviors already warrant serious suspicion, besides the obvious ones, if you take the time to look at people's posting history.
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Last game there was sufficient evidence for dr.dragoon. Still the town was wrong.
That said, I think all opinions and suspicions should be stated in this thread. (Important suspicions due to roles should be sent to someone who cant be murdered once they are proven clean. but there are no abilities used yet anyways.) The reason for stating suspicions publicly is that people cannot suddenly vote to tip the balance (mafia like). They will have a background of saying "I think it might be him". Also while you should not say let's all vote for him until you get good evidence saying it might be him may help the town to reason out clues.
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Well whoever is elected mayor must lynch somebody as his first act. I think that this is why people are analyzing day 1 clues, so that they can help whoever becomes mayor choose. Maybe it would be a good idea for mayoral candidates to discuss who they are planning to use their insta-lynch on. But then again it may be better for it to be a secret until it happens.
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Ok, I see what you're saying there, and agree with you. It's still a bad idea to ask others to lynch people based on a clue.
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On March 19 2008 12:52 ahrara_ wrote:
Ok, I see what you're saying there, and agree with you. It's still a bad idea to ask others to lynch people based on a clue.
well i never asked anybody to lynch them, u are free to decide if u agree with the clues or not, if not then thats alright but at this time in the game we have to start somewhere. In day 2, if theres already a list of suspect then it would be easier to point the finger on who is a mafia and who's not
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eh, well it's better to point out clues to the potential mayors than to just have them randomly lynch someone. I agree that at this stage of the game it's stupid to try to decisively claim that someone is mafia, however there's no harm in just discussing the clues now. Since what we discuss could influence the mayor's choice for who he lynches.
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Most likely anyone who has a clue pointing to them won't be lynched the first day if I got Mayor unless there is some very strong evidence against them, and even then I might not do it.
If I HAVE to lynch someone though, I already have an idea of how to go about it.
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On March 19 2008 12:52 ahrara_ wrote:
Ok, I see what you're saying there, and agree with you. It's still a bad idea to ask others to lynch people based on a clue.
Regardless whether its a bad idea, SOMEONE must be lynched. If someone who is lynched has a clue that MIGHT point to them, then that is better than lynching some random townie.
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I see clues as largely a means of supporting a suspicion, not the beginning of one. Like I said, if you've been following the thread, there have been people who've done some weird things that warrant suspicions. Nothing for sure, but plenty of starting points not based on clues.
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EPT
