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On December 14 2023 07:39 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 04:06 Trfel wrote:
After reading raynpelikoneet's filter, I actually think he could be mafia.
Lots of posts but minimal presence. Doesn't feel like he is pushing much here compared to how active he has been. Two exceptions: his "catch" on Holyflare not reading (more on this later) and his scumreading Palmar. Look at the way he scumreads Palmar, he isn't very committed to it or upset that no one is listening, he feels largely content to just say "Palmar could be mafia" and then move on with life. This isn't how I am used to raynpelikoneet playing as town, nor is it town motivated.
His "catch" on Holyflare. He's so stubborn about this, but town!raynpelikoneet that I'm used to is more willing to try and see things from other people's perspectives, even on "logic" disagreements. Don't misunderstand, he's still super stubborn, but he won't hold onto things literally forever anymore. The fact that he hasn't let it go, but simultaneously isn't passionately driving it in everyone's face and calling for Holyflare's lynch seems very off. I don't understand how this in-between world exists for town raynpelikoneet.
Then there are little things that probably don't mean much. Part of me wants to think that saying "do you have a vig" to die_meatbaby is a slip but I also don't really believe in slips. His post-d1 lynch apology to Vivax feels more told-you-so than actually apologetic, given that he was scumreading and voting for Vivax before the lynch, and the way it comes off feels wrong. But the main two points are above. This feels townie What about raynpelikoneet though? Thoughts on him?
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Feels pretty apathetic :/
I'm fairly happy with Chezinu/die_meatbaby/raynpelikoneet/maybe Koshi though.
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Palmar, may I ask why my play is so boring to you?
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What is the mafia motivation for sandroba being resistant to dicsussing things other than myself? Genuine question.
If sandroba is mafia then he masoned with Palmar (or had Palmar mason with him but whatever) to try and survive. Surprised he would be so stubborn in this case.
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On December 14 2023 22:12 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 21:35 Trfel wrote:
What is the mafia motivation for sandroba being resistant to dicsussing things other than myself? Genuine question.
If sandroba is mafia then he masoned with Palmar (or had Palmar mason with him but whatever) to try and survive. Surprised he would be so stubborn in this case. Not so much resistant as apparently not capable It’s harder to escape the narrative you’ve written for yourself as mafia. As town you’re a lot freer with your thoughts as nothing is predetermined That's fair, I guess I was reading sandroba's stubbornness in contrast to Palmar's stubbornness and it didn't feel too out of place then but I can see that.
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On December 11 2023 12:36 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 21:13 Vivax wrote:Hello. On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
Hi everyone, excited to be playing a game after being away from Mafia for so long! I believe I have some familiarity with most if not all players on the list, although I might be very outdated in accessing their meta.
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.
For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far. We have Trfel and Slam entering the thread rather casually in my opinion. This approach by Sandro sticks out as overthinking and doesn't really seem like he's attempting to form some kind of real contact with them. I don't like the phrasing in parts either (bolded). 'Posting within what I expected' comes out of the blue as you should be expectation-free if you don't know his alignment. 'Self-demeaning tone' is something I don't spot, where is the part of his filter that suggests that? On December 10 2023 13:23 sandroba wrote:
I remember him being a bit wacky, careless, and somewhat random. Always found him hard to access in terms of alignment, but mostly remember he goes into more self-preservation mode and tones it down when mafia. Not sure how much that still applies, but I found his initial posts care-free, with a bit of prodding which I kinda liked, but done in a lighthearted way which could just again be his care-free nature This is a piece of pseudo-information as it doesn't really help in reaching a conclusion on Slam either. Sandroba, are these posts your legitimate opinion or did you write them mostly with the intent of creating a discussion surrounding Trfels and Slams alignments? I feel like this post sounds very unnatural, and also has some confusion about things that were already clarified in the thread at the point this post was made. The 'Posting within what I expected' part was asked by Trfel and I did clarify what I meant. 'Self-demeaning tone about his performance' is something very obvious if you read the post if you read the post I was talking about which he mentions his chances of finding mafia. The reasoning to me sound extremely contrieved, trying to blend in with thread sentiment while appearing to be putting in an effort. This post really does come out of nowhere right after the Vivax wagon is building momentum, doesn't it. I think it's plausible town without the context but the context looks pretty bad, especially given how old the post sandroba is referencing is. Maybe I'm just hard scumsiding 
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On December 14 2023 22:53 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 21:23 Trfel wrote:
Palmar, may I ask why my play is so boring to you? Show me where you've actually had an impact on town sentiment. That's not something that is in my control? I am truly confused, I can say what I say but it's up to others if they believe it or not?
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On December 12 2023 00:19 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 16:57 Trfel wrote:On December 11 2023 13:41 DarthPunk wrote:
Trfel are you around?
Can you give me your updated reads now you are voting vivax I'm asleep. I think Vivax is the best chance at mafia. His play is very underwhelming and uninspired, in contrast to his town play where he is capable of being a very strong player. He also seems to not care about his relatively poor performance/lack of investmemt. Sandroba and Koshi might be worth considering but I think I like lynching Vivax more by a decent margin. Trfel I had been leaning town from the burst of engagement, but this post really set off some alarms for me. Vivax mentioned that he was weary from the bottom feeders on his wagon, and if I was town Vivax I would definitely be all over this post in particular. The wording, tone and reasoning on this post don't seem to match the rest of his filter. Seems like a formal way to justify a vote, looks like it's fabricated and a chore. So he is questioning his townread of me (which soon becomes a scumread) due to how I voted for Vivax. But the post after, he appears to be townreading Palmar due to Palmar voting for Vivax, since he thinks Vivax is mafia? If he is that certain about Vivax being mafia why does he talk about what town Vivax should do in reference to me being mafia? I get that Palmar was the one with the big "case" on Vivax but it doesn't feel quite right.
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On December 14 2023 23:06 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 23:01 Trfel wrote:On December 14 2023 22:53 Palmar wrote:On December 14 2023 21:23 Trfel wrote:
Palmar, may I ask why my play is so boring to you? Show me where you've actually had an impact on town sentiment. That's not something that is in my control? I am truly confused, I can say what I say but it's up to others if they believe it or not? This is not true. A good townie who actually believes his ideas will push for his ideas to be recognized. Aimless commentary that no one listens to is what mafia really, really wants. With all due respect, that hasn't been my experience. And while you've played as much mafia as anyone, I've played a decent amount myself.
Just surprised you see it so differently from me.
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The last point I made about sandroba's post is invalid, please disregard. My apologies.
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On December 14 2023 01:56 sandroba wrote:
I'm not rulling off palmar as mafia, but I don't think it's worth considering for now Sandroba, can I ask what your reasoning was at this time? About 20 hours ago or so? Or really just post Day 1 flip.
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On December 14 2023 23:25 sandroba wrote:
Can you rephrase the question, don't know what exactly you are asking based on the post you are quoting Your initial townread of Palmar was due to thinking Vivax was mafia, correct? Since Palmar was the main person pushing Vivax, it makes sense that if Vivax is mafia, Palmar is town.
I am wondering why you kept thinking Palmar is town after Vivax flipped town? I know you recently flipped to scumread him but there was quite a delay between those events.
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On December 14 2023 23:31 Palmar wrote:
pretty scummy of rayn to not have a vote down. While I think raynpelikoneet is pretty suspicious, it looks like something came up IRL for him, he's been away for quite a while. I wouldn't consider that alignment indicative.
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On December 14 2023 23:32 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 23:30 Trfel wrote:On December 14 2023 23:25 sandroba wrote:
Can you rephrase the question, don't know what exactly you are asking based on the post you are quoting Your initial townread of Palmar was due to thinking Vivax was mafia, correct? Since Palmar was the main person pushing Vivax, it makes sense that if Vivax is mafia, Palmar is town. I am wondering why you kept thinking Palmar is town after Vivax flipped town? I know you recently flipped to scumread him but there was quite a delay between those events. This is not how the game works. If sandroba believed I was town for pushing Vivax because he agreed, why would me being wrong change his mind? By that logic he should scumread himself for also having been wrong. Isn't that the definition of an association read? Specifically an unflipped association read (which then becomes flipped)?
It's one thing if he said that the way you were pushing Vivax was towny. As far as I could tell, he said that he thought you were towny because you were pushing Vivax and Vivax was very likely mafia. That's a key difference.
But yes, I do think that if you are townreading someone because you think they are right and they end up being wrong, you shouldn't townread them for that anymore. Obviously that doesn't apply to oneself because you don't need to have a read on oneself.
Very confused.
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On December 14 2023 23:37 Palmar wrote:
yeah but all the people who like association reads are terrible at mafia. I agree that association reads are generally poor but I don't think that is relevant to the line of questioning?
Thanks for answering, sandroba. I want to check what you are saying about the thread sentiment being against Vivax before Palmar started pushing him. That would actually be rather interesting.
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On December 14 2023 23:39 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 23:37 Palmar wrote:
yeah but all the people who like association reads are terrible at mafia. I agree that association reads are generally poor but I don't think that is relevant to the line of questioning? Thanks for answering, sandroba. I want to check what you are saying about the thread sentiment being against Vivax before Palmar started pushing him. That would actually be rather interesting. Looked into this, seemed to be unclear though. No one voted for Vivax or really pushed him before Palmar did, but several people had expressed suspicions of him. That's enough for mafia to capitalize on, but still took work from Palmar to shift the thread sentiment and make the Vivax lynch actually happen.
Will have to think more about this. I'm not used to Palmar putting in all that much effort as mafia but I know he is capable when he tries.
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On December 14 2023 23:54 Palmar wrote:
I often put effort into day 1 as mafia.
What I don't do is agonize over the lynch on day 2 when I'm not even on the menu. Fair enough, albeit self meta. I hate that my reasons to townread you are mostly meta/effort related, not that you are playing poorly, just that I haven't noticed much alignment indicative otherwise. The meta/effort read says strongly town though I think. But those can always be broken.
I'm not sure if I am ready to lynch Palmar today no matter what, unrelatedly I do kinda still think he is town, his interactions with marvellosity feel genuine, he does things that make sense, etc. But it's worth looking into for sure. Just I think there are better lynches for today by a huge margin.
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On December 14 2023 23:54 Palmar wrote:
I often put effort into day 1 as mafia.
What I don't do is agonize over the lynch on day 2 when I'm not even on the menu. Is this what agonizing over the lynch looks like for Palmar though? He's discussing things but constantly seems set on lynching sandroba?
Genuine question.
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On December 15 2023 00:16 marvellosity wrote:
94 pages of game and our best d2 lynch is Chez?
I just don’t buy it. If you have to lynch Chezinu sooner or later anyway, does the information gained matter? Like sure you maybe have more info for day 3 LYLO but you lynch Chezinu anyway so did it get you anywhere? Or are you saying you POE Chezinu's alignment?
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On December 15 2023 01:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why are people, name Trfel and Koshi saying i have voted for Vivax or even scumread him?
On page 84 Trfel has just read my filter apparently, and is claiming i hvae voted for Vivax. Huh, I could have sworn you were voting for Vivax before switching to sandroba. You're right though, my bad.
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EPT
