EPTThanks Grack!!
TL Endures Mafia II
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TankTopTiger
509 Posts
Thanks Grack!! | ||
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TankTopTiger
509 Posts
On June 09 2023 16:48 DarthPunk wrote: I'm mad I didn't spot that. Hi all. DP, why is this good actually? | ||
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TankTopTiger
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On June 09 2023 16:58 CopCake wrote: There is a thing people call “meta” that is a pattern how a participant plays when he/she is mafia or town. I think from experience, for example, that slam tends to be more town when he is easy going. But ofc you should not consider this as a “complete” read because actions speak louder and those reads can change. On June 09 2023 16:59 marvellosity wrote: What are you talking about, Copcake? Marv what's the ambiguity here? | ||
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TankTopTiger
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On June 09 2023 17:04 CopCake wrote: No, early game i called him maf  and even grack was like “interesting you read him like that” so dont try to manipulate the story.Err... Just gonna pipe in here. Copcake you switched on and off slam many times during the course of obs QT. You did cite him being relaxed a lot iirc, but your read was not nearly as simple as thinking him scum D1 then green reading him for being relaxed. So both you and DP way oversimplified it. | ||
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On June 09 2023 17:12 CopCake wrote: I understand, and I explained that the question I needed an answer for was why is slam town so I could know if your reads have some sort of substance or not. Because to - me - it looks like you wanted rayn reads to base yours in the future with that. I need to actually check last game and see if rayn asked you right away when there was only like 3 persons and 7 posts to - force you - have reads. :D Gonna chime in here too. DP is a very strong player and as mafia, does not need to blatantly steal reads. I'm not saying you're red for thinking that way, but I do suggest you ammend your read on that interaction because it just doesn't make sense with DP being as strong a player as he is. | ||
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How tf on Earth did you expect DP to want to lynch Marv 10 posts into Endures I from: Good morning. Lynches are gonna be interesting in the middle of the night for us Europeans D: You actually expected DP to turn around without priming and call for Marv's head? Did you mention that in-thread or anything later or is this the first time you've said this aloud? | ||
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TBH I'm not too sure what you're talking about because from my monitor it's saying they're in order, but I'll take your word for it? | ||
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But it's weird if you're town or if you're Mafia. I'm gonna go ahead and dismiss this as you two getting snagged on each other. I don't really respect your stated play re: marv+dp last game, and I don't really understand what's going on with you and being sus of getting the ball rolling, but I don't see why you'd tunnel on this as town. | ||
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***goting through filter quickly to refresh self I'm confused by: On June 09 2023 15:41 CopCake wrote: But when you asked rayn there was mostly nothing 🤷🏽♀️ Now answer me so I can go deeper in explaining my point. I think this reflect poor reading comprehension: On June 09 2023 16:38 CopCake wrote: But you can’t force someone to give reads that early with few posts, it seems like you are trying to act - pro town - and maybe create reads out of it. Because you asked RAYN, not someone else. Or why did you ask HIM and not someone else? I also disagree with LS, like how is that crafty? I would reconsider if I was you because you lynched marv because LS pretty much mentioned him a lot and if marv was town then LS is a “genious”, “mafia prodigy”, how cant that entrance be a town LS? How is it crafty? Besides that, I asked what was different. I think Slam is town for example because he - feels - easy going, not attached to anything, not stressfull. Wait do you two know each other irl? | ||
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That piece of information basically resolves all my concerns regarding copcake at this point. | ||
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The thing you stated about testing DP on his read on Marv. It feels overly specific for the context. You're basing your interpretation of DP's line of questioning on the stuff going through your mind last game. But DP didn't know what you were thinking, DP was probably assuming that if you can do it to him, then he can do it to you, and if you don't let him do it to you then this sort of conversation happens and people have real content maybe. | ||
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e.g. she reads you as town for no reason => except she's your fiance and so your relationship plays an enormous part in how she interprets your actions and her trust in you, probably more than anything visible to me in game. | ||
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D1 caveat for all. I think we're probably similar in how we view the value of early reads. | ||
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If you get repeatedly burned, you don't speak well of the fire. | ||
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He made a call on LS's post#1 that felt TMI. This is the only post I even vaguely like of his: On June 09 2023 16:59 Vivax wrote: If he‘s town then cause he copypastad something. You don‘t really believe that the relief is true if it‘s copypasta do you ? Does mafia go put something in the thread that they can be poked about instantly ? Wifom-y but I‘d wager not. Bit of an oversimplified way to discern his alignment, in my opinion *glare* | ||
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What statistics? What is your expectation for ScumLS and how did LS break them? | ||
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Last game you were lynched D1 as doctor. Is there anything you plan to do to not get D1L this game? | ||
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Do you just mean honest? @copcake Re: a lie This is verifiable. Which questions do you not think were answered in the thread? | ||
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See why I ask for clarity? Bad faith is what people say when they want to win an argument, it just means all the bad things IMO instead of anything specific. | ||
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All this other stuff is squabbling compared to that. IMO your answer to this question will likely decide whether you live to see the night. | ||
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If you want people to actually understand what happened, you need to quote the posts, in order, and probably summarise how they fit into what you're claiming. Because I really tried to check the posts you're mentioning but I just don't understand, and I doubt other people do either. It's not enough to be right, you need to clearly communicate why you're right. | ||
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I don't think it's plausible that you are both red so I'm going to trust you both when you say it's reasonable for CC to trust Rayn in this game. I'm trusting you two to know each other better than I know you. CC isn't completely off the hook with me, she's still probably most red, but not deep red like she would have been if Rayn answered differently. I'm gonna go to bed, I expect tomorrow we can resolve these claims about lying etc. with some slower posting if need be. | ||
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So if you see, DP and me were talking civilian, in this order. Then I got busy at work, then went to have a small lunch break and went to play my other game, then Rayn pointed out this: Which I believed he was telling me that DP answered me, and in my MIND I believed he was telling me to answer asap (because I was online on another web) which I was like, hey I just went to lunch! But the problem here, is that DP liked THAT case, and called it "oooooffff you are right rayn cake mafia", when Rayn actually quotes something DP hasn't answered. If you were DP, and town, and you know Rayn made a mistake, wouldn't you clarify that or would you just JUMP and try to start a train over a misunderstanding? I hope I am being clear here. Sorry, can you spell it out for me, what is the question DP hasn't answered that Rayn quoted? What is the mistake that Rayn made that DP knew about? | ||
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Did you decide to approach this game differently and if so how? | ||
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+ I'm being town-read a lot, and I don't really understand why. + DP is different to last game but I want him to explain that. + I like the vibe of Haps approach. + MZ comes across as similar to last game where he was town. | ||
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TankTopTiger
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On June 09 2023 16:48 DarthPunk wrote: I'm mad I didn't spot that. And have you answered why this is good actually yet? @DP | ||
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Err... antsy feet posting? Do I want to know? | ||
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On June 09 2023 19:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Do you have any opinion on other players than Cake / DP? So far i think Vivax is town and mebaby maybe town and Slam maybe town and LS maybe scum. Can't tell on other people. Why was Vivax town at this point? Post 274. You asked me why I thought he was scummy | ||
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On June 10 2023 09:23 TankTopTiger wrote: I caught up but haven't processed it really, so I'm going back and reading it again. The thread is moving superfast IMO, much faster than last game. This will be good later when we have hard info to interpret today's events, but for now it's lurchy aggro in every direction. + I'm being town-read a lot, and I don't really understand why. + DP is different to last game but I want him to explain that. + I like the vibe of Haps approach. + MZ comes across as similar to last game where he was town. 180ing the bolded MZ take. The post I attributed to him was actually Vivax. | ||
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On June 09 2023 20:07 TankTopTiger wrote: Slam, you talk about statistics regarding why LS is town. What statistics? What is your expectation for ScumLS and how did LS break them? | ||
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On June 10 2023 06:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: LS + Cake + idk ez game On June 10 2023 06:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: not vivax not slam not mebaby not hapa maybe not DP who knows... You made these posts while having a vote on Chez. Why would you not consider Chez in the scum team if you'd only just voted for him? | ||
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TankTopTiger
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Assume (as I do) that DP is not getting lynched today. Who is your next lynch and why? @LS How did you learn to play mafia? Who from? | ||
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When can we expect you to join the game? | ||
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Vivax if you are still basing your read on DP on him towning LS you need to go back and reread because I'm pretty that's not what happened. I believe LS already pointed this out to you FYI. | ||
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FWIW, I don't think CC wants to be in this fight if she's red, so I don't think she would lie in order to make this fight happen. That'd make no sense. I'm red on CC, but not because of lie-gate. | ||
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TankTopTiger
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Specifically, her thinking Rayn is green and basing her perspective of the game on that from moment one is super bad, much worse than all this other nonsense she's embroiled in. | ||
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Last game, he posted little and managed to throw his position hard, not just look scummy as predicted by his meta. This game he's posting a lot, so I think we get to be confident in catching him if he stays around. But LS, this is conditional on you continuing to post a lot, and you need to post your reads that come from you. You keep regurgitating what other people say, or asking questions that are already answered. I need to see you looking. | ||
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On June 10 2023 02:25 Vivax wrote: On a partial reread, I could do a DP lynch. Maybe even a rayn one. DP basically takes LS post at face value and instatowns it while it‘s far from apparent how it makes him town and that doesn‘t change when I point out he‘s copied it. His questions to rayn at times seem fabricated and you can observe how he nudges rayn into interacting with him for the purpose of manipulating him into voting Cake. I‘d also add that the way rayn followed into DPs footsteps in regards to Cake felt forced and hedgy. Overall I don‘t really see what they saw aside from Cake using lunch as an excuse which to me seems like a silly reason to base the entire read on. With that in mind and them not giving off the same energy as last game where at least rayn seemed like an easy townlean, Cake gets my axe for wagonomical reasons til I get to decide if rayn isn‘t a better lynch for the way he got smacked into submission by DP. ##Vote DarthPunk Something about Ttts entrance also rubbed me the wrong way as it felt like they were evaluating the dp-cop interaction from the sidelines as an opener that suggested they wanted to play it safe. His reading comprehension is very poor, but that's the case for everyone thus far I think (you and myself included DP). I find it odd how he went straight to the lynch off something he hadn't even read properly. Like... I respect going after bigger players, but he just attacked the two strongest players D1 and that's just never going to happen. Last game, I started my campaign on D2 on Marv, got substantial traction D3, and managed to finally mislynch him D4 with DP's help. This is sort of the "best case" scenario for lynching a stronger player. Having that strong a conviction D1, doesn't feel right, but I don't know Vivax. To me it feels like a parking play where he doesn't really have to engage at all after making the "case". | ||
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*LS asked for opinions on the CC vs DP drama being forced, when opinions on this had already been posted *When pressured, LS said that one of CC or DP was forcing the convo, but couldn't tell which one, only that it was red vs. green | ||
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TankTopTiger
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I was holding off on voting because I felt too clouted up and didn't want people to wagon before developing reads. I'm voting CC based on her town reading Rayn from moment one. I know DP IRL and we play together. We've clashed over these sorts of games before, and I fear those clashes more than I care about playing 100% optimal. But this never means assuming he's town. Instead, it means I give him the benefit of the doubt, and try to not be paranoid about "what if he's 400IQmafiabossing me rn?". While I expect different people have different approaches to how to play around relationship dynamics, I don't see a world in which the answer for CC is "just assume Rayn town". Also, out of everyone, I want DP and Rayn alive D2. They were both crucial driving forces D1, and I have a green read on both. People upset about DP "forcing" and "playing different" should know that his claim of being time-stressed checks out (I'm verifying it now). His aggressive play was consistent between his pushing on Rayn and then CC, and makes sense given he's trying to contribute during the windows he has available. | ||
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Numbers don't have memory. They never think "gee, I've already RNGed LS scum, better not do that again". I'm pretty sure you understand this already. The chances of LS being scum in this game are the same as for everyone else: One in four. You claiming he's town because he has the base chance to be town is not an argument or a reason to read him as anything. | ||
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On June 10 2023 23:01 Vivax wrote: May I ask what constitutes a nonsingular dimension, in your organisation ? Tabs go left to right - one dimension. Cells go left right up down - two dimensions. So if I organised myself using a spreadsheet for responses I might have a more intentional response pattern. | ||
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The main one was when you asked everyone if anyone else thought DP vs CC was forced, when someone else had already stated this. The rest is the gist I get, but nothing comes to mind. I guess the important thing is that your questions need to have some reason for existing or they sound empty. | ||
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On June 11 2023 06:38 Hapahauli wrote: I could lynch TTT. Really not a fan of how his reads have evolved over the course of Day 1. I think he has gone after LightningSTrike and CopCake very opportunistically, constantly, throughout the day. I think this vote on CopCake in particular is egregious, because he is accusing CopCake of giving Rayn the "Benefit of the Doubt" while essentially doing the same thing with DarthPunk. Looking at what he has said about his DarthPunk read, it is essentially that he is "playing different" and that he has a plausible IRL claim, but he hasn't elaborated on that at all. Haven't caught up but commenting on this. You misunderstand me. I give DP benefit of the doubt, that's extremely different from assuming he is town. Basically I try not to initiate tunnels on him without really good reason, but I don't base my worldview on him being green until I have evidence for that notion. ATM his story checks out, and he is objectively productive D1, so I think lynching him is bad. CC assumed Rayn town before she had any reason to do so. She based her read on DP on the foundation of Rayn being town. This is TMI. | ||
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On June 11 2023 06:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: Other than DP and Cake, my townreads are basically Slam, Hapa, and Vivax. Others i can't either tell about but don't wanna lynch either (marv, possibly Vayoletta), or there are thing i definitely do not like about. Vivax was blue last game and this game he is definitely not blue, and doesn't really look scummy at all, yet Chezinu placed his vote on Vivax when that was already clear. There's simply no reason to believe Chezinu would have "blue/red sickness", the vote was just incredibly out of place. I have no clue what to think about MZ, i kind of agree with Hapa on the things on MZ, but i am HORRIBLE at figuring out MZ apparently. DMB seems more self-aware than last game. Probably some of it comes with learning, sure, but like from a person whos cases were "these two people are 100000% mafia because they posted at the same time" and after that "these two people orchestrated the lynch D1" (when me and VE were pushing COMPLETELY different things all D1), i find it very hard to imagine town!DMB would actually be able to keep her head this straight in this game. Unless ofc, she is mafia and needs to actually just consider what to post to not get lynched aka what looks good, not what she actually thinks and how she's running the things in her head. You're all the way to green on CC? Can I ask why? | ||
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On June 11 2023 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes that's what i talking about. He asks me if me and Cake know each other, i tell yes, he says "oh i see how she can have a town read on you". same thing happens at least three times. It's not "Cake defs Mafia", it's "Cake is the best lynch candidate". You've seen what I'm like when I'm certain on someone. Last game, I was "certain" of LS and Marv. I don't really believe in certainty D1. But there are two massive blunders (as red or green) that stand out to me. CC towning you before you've done anything, and LS claiming the CC&DP fight was forced but not being able to tell from which direction. Of the two, LS looks scummy by default but is playing less scummy than normal by other metrics. I look at CC and she's playing against her "town" meta (using her obsqt activity as a proxy). So CC is my best read. I also really don't like how everything around her becomes muddy, but I think that's a playstyle thing. | ||
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On June 11 2023 07:30 CopCake wrote: So why are you saying I am mafia? Because I should be paranoid of rayn? I should call him mafia all the time? Because in ONE single obs discord chat you came to that conslusion and make it an absolute truth? When rayn quoted that and you “ooooffffed” me it felt very opportunistic, very very and even worse after i explained that you didnt answer the slam thing. It felt like if you were a wolf from those old vintage disney cartoons wolves that got happy because he saw fresh meat. It's not just one discord chat. Rayn says you are always suspicious of him, and this is corroborated by discord chat. | ||
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What do I make of it all? Re: DMB Rayn you say people can't change but you believe CC when she says that she's changed out of the blue. DP you believe at least somewhat (as do I) that LS has undertaken a large change in his playstyle. Out of the three people, I think DMB is the most expected to change because she's still in the stage where she's figuring out the game. That said, this change is kind of weird. She's certainly exercising vastly more awareness and restraint. Last game, she was gung ho on Vivax, she had direction, and then after Vivax flipped she seemed like she lacked direction. This game, she still seems like she lacks direction (her suspicion of DP feels arbitrary to me, but apparently I'm against the grain on that), but she has poise and is putting more effort into evaluating the game. This could be indicative of an alignment shift from last game (people's engagement is different for different alignments), or it could be that she was super motivated after feeling powerless last game. I wouldn't be upset with her lynch but she's not my preference. | ||
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I can no longer create a new tab by right-clicking the quote button, it just stay perpetually loading. It was working last night. Is anyone else experiencing this issue? Very annoying. | ||
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She says she hasn't got time for the game, but the type of aggression she was doing last game was not time-consuming. It was more like knee-jerk guttural suspicion. Her lists look similar, but she no longer feels like she's trying to figure out the game. She was never ginger about her accusations. So I think your initial reasoning was sound. As for the Vivax+DNB voteswitching, it being uncoordinated could just mean Vivax town. Would she have made that decision if she knew Vivax was switching? Nah. I'm not voting Vayo. It's a policy lynch in all be the most technical sense. Even if they're red we get no info. | ||
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On June 11 2023 10:25 die_meatbaby wrote: Vivax is just realizing that I worked douple time and didn't play just spend 2 hours of my free time with him and sleep and repeat. I have more time in the next days but my body is killing me right now. I am tired and I don't have the energy to be agressiv and as I said not reading is not playing so vote me out. You still have 9 Town people left. | ||
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What makes you think she's green vivax? | ||
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I am open to lynches on DMB, CC, and LS. Possibly Slam or Vivax too but unless someone makes a banger case in the next 10 minutes I'd have no conviction for it. | ||
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Last game, Vivax was lynched, but it helped form the case on VE. Onegu was modkilled and it didn't really slow us down. A town without info is not going to win. | ||
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On June 11 2023 10:54 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I hate killing just for the sake of information with a burning passion. Whenever people are like "let's lynch X for information" I die inside. That's essentially what this lynch has become because I don't think anyone active in the thread rn can claim they're actually feeling good about their top scum read, whoever it might be. I mean fuck dude, my top read just claimed tracker. I believe your fundamentals in this regard are flawed but that's a conversation for another time. | ||
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But I think D1 was very good overall. | ||
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DMB, you should have claimed rather than getting lynched. Even if you don't plan on being super active in the game you would have at least made scum NK you. See how everyone switched off LS? | ||
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It feels fake because your position is weak (Tracker and policy), but Koshi was furious last game I guess under similar circumstances. | ||
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Killing a lurking town isn't helping us. Every cycle, scum get an NK. Every cycle, town get a lynch. Lynch is far worse than NK, and it's only through informed lynching can town close the inherent disadvantage. Informed lynching comes from information, and the best information which helps interpret all other information is... through lynching. If we lynch a lurker, we basically start again D1 minus (probably) two town. This is disadvantage over time and not something we should ever want. | ||
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Even if they're red, they don't give us anything. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but I'm pretty sure back in the day one of the stats I read was that counterintuitively, if mafia get lynched D1, this favours red. The informational advantage outweighs the material advantage. There was a case, you had noticed real shit. She was blue which makes her act different. She could have claimed and we would have moved on but she didn't. | ||
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You convinced me based on reasons that were real. Her seeming town for the moments before dying does not undo the shift inf her behaviour. She was a purple who didn't claim when piled on at the 11th hour. LS claimed. DMB breadcrumbed. | ||
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On June 11 2023 10:46 Hapahauli wrote: ##Vote DMB I don't like the vote, but I think its better than the other viable options. I"d be happy to lynch MZ today or TTT today and that's about it. | ||
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I just spent a lot of time inside my head on you DP. Real spooky. I thought that a red DP would see the difference between DMB last game and this game, and know it meant blue. Then they could lead the mislynch, but have meta from previous game on leading mislynches. Bonus points for backing away from it at the last minute by reading them green (ad lib). But it was Rayn that pointed you in that direction, so that play doesn't work out unless redDP is very fortunate and just had this play fall into his lap (I don't think Rayn's suggestion was red at all). There were some other things. Your reactions have felt artificial twice to me - one was in response to CC, can't remember the other. You being onboard with policy feels irrational but I'm not actually sure on your position on that and WW may have softened you up. But overall it's too much reach, so I'm back to treating you as green based on the overall pro-townliness of your play. Your read on me is exactly what I would expect and I can't argue against it. I'm not as engaged in poor information environments. Rayn is green. LS is weird because I think he decided at the start of the game that he was going to play differently and so my main reason for giving him the benefit of the doubt feels artificial. Someone said at some point that he feels very in the moment and I agree with that. He also seems to come across as artificial whenever he thinks he should be providing an anger response (congruent with autism claim). So I sort of just want to leave him and see where he takes it for now. I still see CC as red. I don't really want to engage with her because she counter-tunnels and shits up the thread leaving everyone confused. I don't think there's anything she could say that would change my mind, but she also hasn't really done anything since that alleviates or intensifies my suspicion. The read is stale but it's still my firmest read. Overall, I think town have been eating town a lot, but also in many directions. This sort of environment is something I wanted at the start of the game (not the TvT thing, but the diversity of opinions thing as opposed to last game which felt sychophantic to me from many). This pushes me in the direction of thinking that mafia are more passive, so toward Vayo, Marv, and Slam. | ||
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I'll have to go back and read his comments around DMB, but I think him recognising she was blue then passing it off onto you, who then convinced me while himself backing off, is too complex an explanation with too many moving parts for me to believe on face value. He would have done this and then gone to bed so completely hands off (which is what he claimed and is verifiable by CC). In short, he's my strongest town read and there isn't a compelling story in there for me where he's red. I could be wrong, as the timeline is a bit fuzzy for me, but I'm unaware of there being any reason to suspect him. With you DP, I force myself not to tunnel you unless you're super duper scummy. I disagree with why people were treating you red, and I disagree with their reasons to start thinking you green. I read you on my own terms, and that starts from a baseline of suspicion that I actively inhibit. I've resolved not to push you unless I've got reasons that aren't speculative, I just got stun locked by what I see as bad reasons to read you green. | ||
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I see CC as only having done OMGUS since CCvsDP. She's made shallow comments elsewhere, but the bulk of her attention has been directly on people who have expressed suspicions of her. Is this a fair assessment, and if so, is this consistent with how she plays as town? | ||
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My view on LS is not that he is red, but that he has claimed tracker after him being mostly red. I'm not pushing for his lynch, I'm figuring out what to do with someone who's not CCed when there's no guarantee there is even a tracker in the game. There was also no guarantee there's an RB in the game but he was certain that he would get RBed and then he did. The way I see LS is that he's got a free pass for now, but if he is blue then mafia have him 100% under control and they will keep him alive as lynchbait instead of NKing him. This is balanced against the chance that he is red, in which case he made a claim which a red would make (baiting out blue at worst), and lucked out that there wasn't a CC. So we have someone who's sort of a ghost regadless of alignment. But at some point he'll be on the block due to town suspicion or mafia leading, and when that time comes we want him to have given us enough information to make the choice. I repeat I'm not trying to lynch the blue claim. | ||
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Rayn, I was really clear the whole time she was not off the hook with me. I didn't want to tunnel early D1 because it stops the whole process in its tracks.I made my suspicions known (it's pretty clear in the post) but didn't commit until later. I see D1 almost entirely as about collecting information and I tried not to turn D1 into mindless wagoning like last game. I rely on meta-reads from other people to determine whether someone is acting scummy relative to their norm. I had very strong opinions on marv last game based on the expectations I got from other people despite never having played with him. You talked me into thinking she was red and that this wasn't her. It was convincing. But you are involved - I still don't understand why you changed your mind all the way to green but I can only imagine there's some IRL element. But I'm not party to that and don't see someone convincing their fiance as counteracting the evidence against her, which I see as strong for D1. I value some information over other information. Someone having strong beliefs without evidence when they have a history of the opposite belief in similar circumstances is very high-value information to me. You look at other information that I basically ignore (like post order, or simultaneous posting, which I see as basically coincidental), I lock onto what I see as the best information available and focus on that. | ||
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On June 11 2023 19:06 Vayoletta wrote: I was not aware that nights are talky this game, that's not how these games are usually played. Thought I'd use the quiet night to catch up with the game. In my vision Copcake, Alakaslam and Hapahauli are all town. With Alakaslam that's more of the tone and the way he conveyed his thoughts early game that makes me read him town. Copcake's aggression makes me read that slot as town. and Hapahauli's request of clarification for activity rules here makes me think he has genuine concern on my slot, which would more naturally come from town. Haven't read the thread for pr claims, but will need to check if there are any clears. If Darthpunk is town, I would say there is a good chance that there is one mafia there. I don't think Copcake is mafia, so either Lightning or Vivax. Copcake, what's the reason you voted DarthPunk? I don't like this read on hap. Someone inquiring about the rules is ANI and does not give grounds to town read. Hap then gets NKed. IIRC the request for info was in the middle of a conversation regarding whether we should LAL. The excuse to read him town feels fake. | ||
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On June 11 2023 20:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: Exactly, not necessarily be quiet but not to advocate another lynch that strongly. The only way i can see that, is if DP somehow figured out DMB is blue and made an educated guess DMB is gonna claim and then he HAS to try to lynch someone else. I don't know if that's true and i would need to check better since it seemed like noone thought DMB is blue. I see this as a bad reason to read DP town. When he tried to take the train off DMB, he obviously wasn't leading it on himself and IIRC he was basically out of the woods and leading things. CC and Rayn you talk about it being risky but I don't see it as risky if he is red. I agree with your conclusion (DP green) but disagree with how you got there. Also, if DP was red, he "knew" DMB was blue in the same way town DP "knew" she wasn't green. To a red DP he knew she was acting safer and this meant blue. | ||
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On June 11 2023 03:33 Vivax wrote: Probably town: - Hapa (attitude mostly, like a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh) - Marv (decent followup to bugs bunny intro, aligns with Hapa in some aspects) - Rayn (I don't think he'd scumread Chez for his vote on me as mafia and would rather go along with it comes to mind as a reason) - LS (Christmas tree salience recycled first post + I kind of agree with Slam on his initial analysis at this point.I think he'd have folded and fell over by now as scum) - Vayo (weird gut reason, seems familiar idk how) - Cop (tonally seems like annoyed town to me also #hashtag has me pocketed so congratz if scum) Not sure, could murder: Chezinu, Slam, DMB, MZ Want to murder: DP, TTT How did you have reads on Marv or Vayo? These seem like really weak reasons to give someone town points. | ||
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On June 11 2023 06:02 Alakaslam wrote: Voting CopCake in case I can't be around for deadline. Want to keep it from spiraling onto a wagon on a strong townread of mine (DP) Slam you have a strong gut-read on LS, and you had it early off a C&P post. In this post you had more unexplained feels about DP. Where did these feels come from? | ||
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On June 10 2023 06:21 Vivax wrote: I‘m like 90% sure LS is mind boggingly town after a skim. And y‘all thought you were good. LS was set to be lynched D1 if he hadn't blue claimed. He was acting red to everyone else. What could you see that others could not? 90% is reasonably confident. | ||
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I'm just trying to work through this and here's where I keep coming back to the conclusion that LS is scum. He's got Darth as a townread. He says there's something off with DarthVCop. When pushed he says that it feels like TownVMafia (even though he initially said the interaction felt forced which is usually what people say when they're analyzing a MafiaVMafia interation). Once he says he feels one of them could be scum, he gets pushed on which one and he says it's Darth.... his previous townread. While I disagree with MZ on policy lynching, I read MZ as strong-willed and independent (e.g. going after Marv D1 last game), and I can very much see someone who isn't so appalled at the notion finding it an attractive option given what felt like no great options that could be agreed upon. | ||
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I wasted a lot of time paying careful attention to you. People seem to be sheeping against you and then for you, and I think that's a good place to look for scum sign. I'm not trying to put doubt on you, I'm trying to find people who pretended they had reads they don't actually have. I do not support a lynch on you and acted yesterday to prevent your lynch. The little information Slam is giving on his perspective doesn't really add up. The read he initially had on LS was based on a C&P, Slam should have reevaluated but didn't. This is the only readable info on Slam other than baseless reads (itself bing a baseless read but with damning context). | ||
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By wasting attention, I meant I spent a lot of time on you without changing my position. I meant to work in there that that I know what you've been up to so have an easier time appraising things that people say about you. | ||
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Pardon me for asking, but shouldn't CC be among those if that's your final listing and you just called CC red? Would like to know if you just forgot to put her there or if you meant the mafia besides her. Cause if you forgot to put her there, that's something that would make you scum. That's not a final list, it's how I see the game. I'm not stating they're red, I'm saying that since what has occurred feels like TvT I think there is red in the lurkers/trolls, namely those three. I want CC lynched, but only DP seems to be on board because Rayn flipped for ??? reasons. We've already gone over the reasons ad infinitum but you guys seem to either not understand or not care. CC had a green read on Rayn out of nowhere. CC has been incurious when in obsQT, she was suspicious of everyone (bar marv and DMB) and didn't start anything remotely like a tunnel until D3. This is completely unlike what she's done here, which is basically assume Rayn green, DP+TTT red. This game feels much harder to find scum but she's more certain. | ||
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What makes sense about his read on LS? LS C&Ped a post which Slam read as green. It came to light that the post was C&P. Slam nodded his head and continued with that read. Intuition doesn't mean stupid. His data set for his intuition was overturned so he should have reappraised but didn't. Slam is even more opaque than last game with why he thinks what he does. I know some people rely on intuition more but pure gut is bs. Your gut follows real info. It's still your brain doing the work. It doesn't just spit out answers with no rhyme or reason. | ||
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I mean that CC is incurious now when in obsQT she was pointing fingers everywhere. | ||
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Endurance Mafia CC reads on D1 (from obs QT):
*Koshi *DMB *Slam *Slam *Chez *Chez *DMB *Slam *DP *DMB *vivax *MZ *DP *Koshi *Slam Endurance Mafia II CC reads on D1:
*DP *DP *Rayn *Rayn *DP *Rayn *LS *TTT These are approx. cos I did it fast, but should be fairly reasonable birds eye view of her actions. There's no flipflopping this game, only blind read on Rayn early, singular shallow reads, and tunnels on people who suspect her. | ||
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When you called them town, which game? | ||
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You are even less suspicious than my notes said you were. | ||
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How is this not what I said? You OMGUSed the people who were on you. And you tunneled hard D1. Last game it took you until D3 to even close to tunnel. You then suspended the tunnel D4 and jumped back on D5, so not even a true tunnel until D5!! | ||
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BUT ALSO You regretted calling Rayn red last game and so blind-read him town this game. You also tunneled both me and DP last game (we were your top reads, especially me) and yet you have no concern you might be wrong this game exept when Rayn tells you off. | ||
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Even if it isn't true, you still just flat-out assumed he was town and that's really bad unless you've established it as your meta and you haven't. | ||
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Slam and Chez are trolls who nobody takes seriously (at least at this stage of the game). They didn't come after you at all and stop pretending they did. | ||
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The case is: + CC made a blind read on Rayn early and based her worldview off it + CC is not paranoid when she should be + CC is tunneling with confidence she didn't express last game until much later + CC hasn't pushed anybody but the people that question her (OMGUS) I'm gonna leave it here for now unless you have anything but nitpicks and telling me to read entire other games when I'm struggling to keep up with this one. | ||
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I'm unaware of any such convention with the lists but I genuinely don't know. I just assumed Chez was being cryptic and he'll be able to contextualise that post later? What's with the spacing? Is it a town tier list? | ||
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I will say this: People are holding me to a standard from last game not realising that was the only game of forum mafia I've done any heavy lifting. I think it was my eighth game overall and I don't read games I'm not in. At around this time last game, VE was about as red to me as CC is now (for very different reasons), but unlike last game, I'm in hot water and my views don't align with what other people are seeing. Marv you say I'm treating CC differently to how I treated you. Yes. You are considered like some sort of deity as town, so your lack of contribution is both a huge deviation from your town game, and a gaping congruence with your red game. You even gave up at one point which is something you're known for as scum. But also, comparing the time during the game, I was lynching VE at approx. this point. My tunnel on you came from extremely consistent accounts of your town and scum play born out over a longer period of time. IIRC I was cooking you D2 but wasn't trying to lynch. I deliberately tried to give CC room to breathe and she's done nothing with that room (I gave LS room to breathe last game if you recall, then lynched the next day or w/e). I'm also trying not to do the aggro thing because I feel my biggest mistakes last game were made when I got my blood up tunneling you. When me and you were brawling I wasted an enormous amount of energy and felt completely unlistened to by the rest of the thread. You came out ahead in the eyes of town even though from the brawl I had grown more confident in my read. | ||
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I'm against policy lynching. This was a policy lynch. I've given my reasons and I think it's genuinely absurd to suspect someone for not wanting a policy lynch. | ||
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My lynching history: VE (active), LS (active), Marv (active), Slam (by this point active), DMB (active). I'm pretty sure last game I said something along the lines of "I haven't even read [long list of inactive player]". | ||
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How do you build a case on nothing and consider that strong enough to compete with your reads? | ||
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Can you spell out your reasoning for why it wasn't a policy lynch? | ||
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I meant that you get no information from the lynch, meaning you only get information that scum team give you from NK. Essentially, you give away all town agency leaving only mafia agency. | ||
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DP you've seen me explain this stuff as town much more recently in werewolf in A52. | ||
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Even if I somehow make it out of this lynch, I don't think I'll live through the next one now that I'm pretty sure basically everyone is against me. I don't really want to spend the next 1-4 days fighting just to die anyway. I don't really blame people for being sus overall on me, I'm playing differently to last game for sure. But I am frustrated by the constant reading comprehension issues, the repeating the same questions, the ignoring my questions, the pedantry. You guys don't understand how I think, you didn't last game and you don't this game. That's fine but you seem to think you do??That's fine I guess it's just... Too much effort for me. I no longer have agency in the game, I'm not engaged, and I'm pretty bamboozled overall. When I'm dead: I don't really have strong town reads. My read on Rayn was heavily based on some early interactions, and he hasn't really done much since then. It's stale and since everyone agreed he was town, I didn't really want more work on my plate filtering him when he was never going to be lynched. DP I can never be sure because I haven't actually encountered his scum play in forum mafia and he speaks very highly of himself in this regard. He seems more agentic than last game where he was town (I don't see how Rayn think's he's current town boss compared to DP, Rayn afked the lynch and hasn't really done much more than perpetuate D1 convoes). I don't like how DP thinks I would go for policy lynches. In no game we have ever played together have I been the type of player to value points on the board over game state. DP, you realise what you're expecting me to want to do is bolt face turn 1 in an FFA right? Right?! I don't really see this as something he could possibly expect from me. I always play for control first every single time. MZ seems townish but has difficulty understanding other points of view. If someone disagrees with him they're stupid dumdum. He felt this way last game too. MZ, you don't understand what I'm saying, and you're super motivated to twist it into contradiction. Town is about to be 6-3. I stand by my read on CC, it's the best case. When you see I'm town, also make Vayo answer the question regarding their baseless reads. I'm also suspicious of Marv because he just doesn't seem active enough now he's free. Any other strong town player can't keep themselves from engaging. DP has no time and yet somehow his filter is enormous. I don't know Marv well, but his actual content posts are minimal within a filter barely over two pages long. When I subbed in last game, I felt I had a lot more to say than Marv does now. Slam is... less than last game. He's just doing less. I have no idea why people have strong ideas about him... actually that's a recurring issue with you lot, you've normalised baseless reads. Good luck town whoever tf you are <3 | ||
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I'm going to vote Vayo and not just because my survival depends on it. This is how I see them chronologically: 1) They lurk 2) I refuse to policy lynch them 3) They finally give reads after the lynch 4) The reads have very little justification. Spefically, Hap and Marv have poor jutsification. 5) I ask them to expand on their read 6) They ignore me 7) Other shit happens, I get overwhelmed and leave 8) They begin to suspect me based on me leaving, when in fact I am absent, after I tried to engage, and they ignored me. | ||
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But the fact that this game is really hard I think points to a mafia in the Marv/Rayn slot. and I guess Rayn think the same but the Marv/DP slot, and Marv will probably think the Rayn/DP slot. This is exactly what I was thinking reading on my phone (I can only read on phone, so can only post when I have access to computer). If we have Marv, DP, Rayn (lol at DP pretending he thinks he's not as good as Rayn and Marv), there is no way a non-lurky mafia goes this long without getting spotted. I think they have an "S-tier" player able to smooth the course for them. I haven't filter dove but having read Marv today I feel better about him than before. Rayn is hard to read because his bluster feels meh but it always does. I'm going to try and get into this again. I'm kind of one day ahead of the rest of town knowing that if I'm lynched next the game is 3xlylo. Why is everyone town reading Slam? I don't get it. Is it just that he's not engaged and so therefore town? Because that's super lame (of Slam if true). Also I can't remember who (DP??) but someone said LS is 99% town and that doesn't make sense to me. He's not 99% town. He was on death row, and if red, he made the same play he did last game (claiming blue) but this time no CC. It's pretty clear he decided coming into this game he was upping his posting and resilience so this does not clear him. Listen to the way he tells people he's resolute in not backing down, that's a decision he's made not some organic feel he's developed. He's claimed blue so yeah maybe don't lynch, but I don't see any way that he's confirmed town given we don't know the setup. | ||
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Because you're skittish af second guessing yourself every which way and 99% is super duper high. | ||
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Marv if you show me why his recent posts are towny I'll listen. I don't read them that way but he's lazy tunneled on me (no conviction/curiosity, just cheering against from a quick filtering). It seems to me like he feels pressure to think something (ANI), and his tunnel is what he feels obligated to do. I don't think this makes him red because this is a doozy of a game and it's got us all stumped, but it doesn't feel towny. | ||
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On June 14 2023 16:06 DarthPunk wrote: it's hyperbole. Can you focus on important stuff please That's fine. You've made me roll my eyes too with policy gate, let's not fight. IMO people are saying too much dumb shit like "99%" when they don't mean it, and that makes it hard to find scum who similarly are throwing out empty reads. So I'm going to ask for clarification and you can be annoyed but it's better if you just answer and move past it. I felt disempowered at what felt like everyone evading me yesterday, so I'm not letting people get away with not answering anymore. | ||
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I think for me, in this game right now, the only people I can possibly catch are CC, Vivax, and MZ (if red). DP, Rayn, Marv all feel above my paygrade, and the rest aren't giving enough information. It's going to be 6-3 tomorrow and I think that will be leaving us with a scum Marv/Rayn/DP vs. the town Marv/Rayn/DP. Of the three within reach, I obviously think CC is reddest but I haven't closely read anything by her in like 24 hours. So we need Chez, Slam, LS, and myself to stop fucking around. | ||
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On May 23 2023 21:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: I dont vote unless i feel like i am sure at the time, i guess you missed that on meta So Rayn believes it's unlike him to vote on people unless he's certain at the time. His vote on Chezinu was wildly thrown out, and he changed his mind 1.5 hours later. I think people have talked about this vote but I can't remember reading any satisfying resolution to the line of questioning. If you haven't answered already Rayn, wtf was up with voting chezinu? | ||
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"fixate" Your answer was that it was hyperbole. I wasn't rejecting your answer, I was saying it's stupid for us to foster the environment in which we just allow ambiguous shit go. So you can roll your eyes, but it's better to just answer than kick up stink. The final para was a roadmap for how I want to actually resolve shit going forward. Unless you feel you didn't answer? In which case now I am interested in what your real answer is if it's not hyperbole? | ||
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On June 13 2023 03:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: Whoever said MZ is town because he cared about the lynch, is not making a very good read. MZ's targets were LS and Vayoletta. We know Ls is like 99% blue, so unless MZ is mafia with Vayoletta, this is very safe thing to do to "look like caring" when noone is on the line from mafia team -- and multiple people had even said they are not up for policy lynch. In between here LS claims. Now what is this?? His other lynch target drops a blue claim so he STARTS DOUBTING the only viable lynch in his mind ?????? Or is there something i am misreading in this post lol? See and here too. Why are people just believing the claim straight up? Last game he claimed cop, pretty sure no CC, and he still went down as red. Why is the exact same scenario playing out except this time he's 99% blue according to big boys DP and Rayn? (minus hyperbole, 99% still means strong read). | ||
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Last game you said that vivax becomes very clearly town if the game goes long enough. Has it gone long enough? Is he clearly town in your opinion? | ||
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And in that position (and I'm not claiming this), they know he's mostly gimped and they may not want to claim based on the likelihood that they've correctly guessed the setup? In the meantime, they get to take their actions and still can claim against him down the road? Him being blue is based on seriously not much and I'm getting heaped on for not assuming him town yesterday. I was almost lynched partially based on not assuming him town. You set it up so that if someone did hang on to their blue role, they wouldn't be believed if they counterclaimed him later. Unless I'm missing something, both you and Rayn were being stupid on this. | ||
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Only mafia (and town LS) know whether LS is blue. So while it's very abstract for town, for mafia it'd be really clear that if they can make a mislynch happen against a pending future counter-claim, they are another day ahead of where they would otherwise be, plus free blue. @Marv Am I being crazy? This assumption came out of thin air and is bad right? | ||
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On June 14 2023 10:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: The reason why i am not more vocal against this lynch is because in my world exactly one of MZ & Vayois mafia. So are you deep on MZ now? I just quick filtered you and it didn't feel like you were that into lynching MZ? Why is MZ red? Just based on his aggression levels compared to last game? | ||
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On June 14 2023 17:46 DarthPunk wrote: It’s not fucking important if Rayn or I were being stupid unless you think we are both mafia together. Kinda weird that both of you did it though right? In your shoes assuming town, I might feel dumb, but I'd probably be asking why someone else made the exact same mistake? I haven't ruled out you're both mafia together, nor am I assuming it. I just think it was a stupid/boldscummy thing that two otherwise strong players did. Bonus points I get to shit on Rayn for partially basing his read on me yesterday for it. | ||
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It's not clear to me whether they skated D1. It was a chaotic lynch. My money would be on that they didn't, because I find it unlikely LS, CC, and DP are all town. We shot with a flak cannon and it is just unlikely that no mafia were clipped at all. But DP did his chaos roulette thing, and I'm not sure how familiar people are with that, so whether or not they felt the need to actually step in is... Wifom basically. D2 they breezed no question. Without having actually sifted through the votes, I think there would be more scum on my wagon. No shade on Vayo, but I wouldn't be surprised if people feared me late game more than Vayo who nobody has meta on and was mostly lurking/absent and giving unfounded reads. I pushed four cases last game and three were red. Regardless of whether that was lucky or not (it was), scum team would see me struggling early and seize the opportunity to not have to find out whether I can reproduce it. | ||
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CC blablabla same old reasons. I've kind of moved on and don't want to talk about it. I haven't read them in a while because it was tilting me and so before saying anything on them I think I have to force myself back on that grindstone. LS I think went from the lynch to "99%" town based on a single claim. Even now, I think Marv hasn't understood what I was saying (I never implied there were two of the same role). So having not spent that much time reading him since the lynch, I think the overall shape of his game is bad. I'm VT, but if I were cop/investigator I would not have CCed so to me at least my read on his alignment is still reddish but it doesn't matter because either he'll get CCed (or a blue will die) or he won't and we'll worry about it then. | ||
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On June 14 2023 18:43 TankTopTiger wrote: (I never implied there were two of the same role). EBWOP: two investigator types fuck | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + I'm saying that if I was cop or tracker I wouldn't have CCed. So it doesn't matter if it's possible for there to be two inspector type roles (i never thought there would be) because it's possible for there to be one and LS to still be red. If I was cop or tracker, I would have let him go and kept using my role then claim later (or claim by default when MS/NK). | ||
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On June 14 2023 19:49 marvellosity wrote: Meeting finished early so I flicked through LS’ filter. He’s just not mafia. Take away the blue claim and he’d be one of my strongest townreads. His stream of posts make sense (in the way that LS’ posts make sense within their own world, if that makes any sense to anyone else?). The read/vote on TTT does not feel contrived. Including the fake C&P opener and being able to tell that a conversation is forced without being able to tell the direction of that force? We were just about to lynch him and now you're saying he's the greenest man alive. Any other of you vibey folk verify this read? Does it make sense? Because I can' evaluate this shit I'm not built that way and don't understand LS's meta. | ||
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I never claimed cop last game I only talked about being a cop in a past game with DP unless you thinking of VE who did claimed cop as mafia End of Day 2. Ah, sorry, I misremembered. My bad. FWIW I was also trying to get your shit out in the open now. If you're town, people have sort of decided that but not given much reason. If we're doing these chaotic lynchings and a CC comes up, you need to be vetted beforehand otherwise you're just a free MS. We've got two more mislynches then we lose, and these tides are fickle. | ||
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On June 14 2023 20:22 DarthPunk wrote: I don’t think Marv would lie about this unless he was mafia with ls. I'm not just evaluating Marv's honesty with that question. My vibe read on Marv is townish ATM. | ||
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Weak red Rayn (to be expanded upon/confirmed). I did look over his filter and in isolation I don't see what I was seeing early game. He's been cruising since CCgate with the exception of TTTantrumgate when he was fighting DP. I don't understand his vote on Chez or why he switched off so quickly. He's been misreading me a lot and it's super frustrating, and so I haven't really engaged with him because it feels like he wants me to be mafia. Red CC (stale) LS I'm just treating as grey even if my vibe read is not at all the same as others vibe reading him I think chez is possible based on gamestate but I don't read his posts until there's a good reason to because I consider it a waste of time. I don't have strong feelings about MZ or vivax, but that puts them as light green by default given how much they've posted without any alarms going off for me. Slam is another I genuinely don't understand the green read on. It feels like people just decided it. He feels different to last game (emptier) but he also got caught last game, partially for having too full of a filter. I wouldn't read him red per se but I feel like he's taken a step back from last game. | ||
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But this doesn't really mean much for you guys because you don't know I'm green. When/if I die, this information might be relevant. | ||
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Strong town but weak scum? I know NK wifom, but I think each player sort of has a range of people they NK. If I was scum, I would have gone after Rayn/Marv/DP because I don't know Hap or what he's capable of. I get the sense that there's a narrative surrounding the stronger players that more sheepy players would be submerged in and glued to. I think people also remove the threats they know. So I think the strongest player on the scum team is someone who has played with Hap before and respects his town game enough to consider it as much of a threat as Rayn/DP/marv. Someone discerning and confident. I think this points once more to one of Marv/Rayn/DP, but maybe others, I don't know the history of other players. | ||
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On June 14 2023 20:58 DarthPunk wrote: Why is everyone not lynching more green when they lynched another townie? Because I think my perceived value as a town is higher than the perceived value of Vayo as town, as discussed with MZ. | ||
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Marv townish but haven't really kept up. I like that he's butthurt about getting mislynched last game. I like that he's actually evaluating me based on what he perceives as my limitations (based on that butthurt  ). He could have eeeassssilly killed me D2 and he would have probably felt good doing it but he didn't. It just makes sense to me. But this is vibe level read so light green. | ||
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I'm off to bed. Chances are I won't be back until NK+5. I'm not worried it's me so no night post and I've already dropped my list anyway. | ||
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On June 15 2023 02:17 CopCake wrote: I am sorry, I am going to sound “tunelled” but in my mind the only person I can think of being mafia playing us all is TTT. - He is not trying to solve the game: • he doesnt read chezinu because is a waste of time (he said so) I didn't read Chez or Slam last game until lylo. If people are trying hard not to be understandable, I'm not going to try hard to understand them until I have to. That means if they're up for lynch I'll filter them. But for now, they're a huge uncontributing, unlynchable nothingburger. • cares about activity but doesnt read posts (slam) See above. • when provided with information of past games he doesnt care (my links of previous games) I didn't read additional games last game either and I was town. You're just going to have to accept that I don't approach shit like you do. I rely on witness testimony, because if someone lies about what transpires in another game, it's verifiable by others who were there. Saves enormous effort. • tinfoils something I tinfoiled earlier (LS) yet I am his biggest red read I don't see how this makes me red. • only cares about DP’s opinion and maybe rayn’s and marv because he is a “deity” No, Marv is treated like a deity. I personally don't see it but everyone rides his dick so I'm assuming he's got a long track record of being solid. I care about DP's opinion that's true, and Rayne's too but less this game. Rayne was the only person in obs QT last game who had a handle on the game and that's worth a lot even if he's wrong in this game. • “mafia wanted to lynch me because i was so good last game” therefore all my wagon is mafia. That's not what I said ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Now Rayn is mafia because ????????????? He doesnt read me correctly? Consider and judge his actions not just the answers he can provide. That's not what I said ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So by his list only DP and Marv are town. That's not what I said ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ This is a nothing post. You're shitting on me for both reading the same as you and for reading differently to you, for listening to the only player that's consistently made sense, and for managing my time the same way I did last game. o/ | ||
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Because if I take a birds eye view of my behaviour I can barely see why I'm town. If you're town, and you believe I'm town, you need to provide some explanation now because when I flip town (and you're saying it's going to happen), you will likely be next on the block and that will be game. You have some sort of 300IQ silver bullet? | ||
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I'm getting blamed for a lot of shit. There is an expectation for good cases to have been made by now and I haven't made one. But I'm not the only one being blamed. Rayn was blamey af, DP has been getting blamey and we just had a huge shit-fight. But no town has done anything verifiably productive all game. If there is evidence, it hasn't led to a case that has ended up with a lynch. So stop coping and put your head on straight. Town score = 0. You have done 0. There is not enough good info to hang mafia, and if there is, literally zero town have managed to identify it. So stop blaming and try to play the game. Rayn, you're probably blustering in obsQT rn over how scum I am. I want you to remember me saying this after the game. You did nothing, that's okay because nobody has, but you don't get to blame others. That won't be apparent rn, but it will be later and maybe you can avoid being a gaping asshole next time | ||
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DP/Marv I think you've got to figure out whether you trust the other. Tomorrow is lylo and presumably, one of you will die to NK. If both of you are mafia, it's gg. There is no real chance of town winning at this point if that's the case, so I don't think it's worth town even considering. So I think town's best shot of getting through tomorrow is if we bet heavy on the read of our best players. So when I flip green and you are dead, do you trust Marv/DP to mayor town through lylo or no? We need to play risky, because we are up against a 3 stack and we will only have four. | ||
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On June 15 2023 16:22 DarthPunk wrote: Can any blues claim now? Yeah this would be the time. | ||
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Part of me hopes it's CC. If it is, Rayn cost us the game after all that bluster bs and not me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (jkjk<3). But at the same time, I think it'd be really hard to pocket a partner and not have that cause relationship issues. And out of the two, Rayn is considered stronger, so it's less likely she pulled one over him this hard. Presumably, they live together? Rayn dead now should have asked before. | ||
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And I stick by what I said earlier about posting behaviour (unless someone knows different). You (DP) have no time but have not been able to put the phone down. Sounds like you're burning the candle at both ends to keep on top of it. Marv has big ego tied up in this game too, big egos find a way to get stuck in. | ||
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I survived last lynch by the grace of Slam forgetting to post. If we were scum together that would make sense. I know this doesn't look good me saying it, but at this point I don't care I think I'm dead anyway and I need a read on you. | ||
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On June 05 2023 12:06 Alakaslam wrote: Sadness comes and goes. Be thankful you haven't been through an immigration scam marriage! Not worth. Well, my daughter is. But the ordeal isnt... This was all I found he put it in just at lylo. So I think it's fair to say I misremembered somewhat. I don't think him having said this now matches the behaviour last game. He's not under pressure now, and I can very much understand him just being super miserable and not wanting to play. @Chez You're up buddy. What's your take on this? | ||
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On June 15 2023 16:59 DarthPunk wrote: Im going to let other people post for a bit, Mafia was either hiding behind Rayn, or Behind me. so ill shut up and see what happens. Now that I think of it, we have a lot of paired-up players. Chez+Slam, Rayn+Vayo+CC, TTT+DP, Vivax+DMB. It didn't really occur to me until now. So the likelihood that no mafia started in a pair is basically non-existent. DP, the only world in which Hap is NKed if I'm mafia D1 is if Marv is also mafia. I could never hope to live this long against you as maf, at the time Rayn had just shown himself very capable, and Marv is talked about in envious whispers every time he walks past. There's too many people I would want dead and (sorry guys) I just wouldn't respect anybody else's opinion enough not to force the kill on one of you three over Hap. It turns out Hap was a good target, but I wouldn't trust anyone not in leadership to make that call for me at that time. So if I'm mafia, Marv is mafia. @CC Have you played with Hap before or nah? You seemed salty earlier about me not continuing the line of questioning. Was that just salt or had I stopped your response? | ||
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I know DP is a strong scummer when red. But could he fake this level of involvement? I know him IRL, but I've never seen his red game in forum mafia. I've also never seen him put this much effort into... anything recreational at all. He is a nervous wreck and it's not healthy. I can't see him doing this as scum, but I can see him super worried about the damage his ego will take if he gets clean-swept. Am I mistaken? | ||
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You are voting me for not calling someone scum after a mindmeld? And you ignore the two follow-up posts after that expanding on that line of questioning? This is the most lazy forced bs I've seen since D1 and I'm going to need you to explain it because I'm not accepting your explanation as written. | ||
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On June 15 2023 16:54 TankTopTiger wrote: MZ, do you think that if I flip red Slam is red? That's the only thing that I can think of. I survived last lynch by the grace of Slam forgetting to post. If we were scum together that would make sense. I know this doesn't look good me saying it, but at this point I don't care I think I'm dead anyway and I need a read on you. On June 15 2023 17:31 TankTopTiger wrote: MB I keep coming back to your wagonomic calculus question and can't help but wonder where you're leading with that. Your lack of suspicion towards me is waaaaay too generous if you haven't got a reason. I want you to clarify how you see this stuff. Previously I've disagreed with you but felt you had a cohesive world view. I currently agree with you that I'm town but have no idea how you got there. | ||
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On June 15 2023 18:39 Vivax wrote: If you´re town, it will make more sense down the road. So now I'm waiting on some cryptic bullshit from you, from MZ, and from Chez? Righto. Fun game guys let's all defer saying anything until it's too late. | ||
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Their filter lately is genuinely terrible and it looks like they´re a threat from the Holyflare species of scummers if I had to place a guess. Are you referring to MZ's or my filter? | ||
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I am a desperate man regardless of my alignment. Fishing for an emotional outburst? Dude I have every reason to tunnel you rn and you're giving it to me. I need to tunnel someone to survive (ANI) and this should be pretty obvious to you. You're strapping chops to your legs as you run through an enclosure of hungry lions looking for an "emotional reaction". So if that's what you were actually thinking, that was recklessly stupid in a way you haven't been all game, at a time when we can't afford it. | ||
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I think I`m clearing Slam. I think I can clear Chez. I can`t clear Cop, marv, DP, and MZ. But I doubt DP and Cop are paired. Stellar acting if so. How are you clearing Chez? | ||
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On June 11 2023 01:50 Vivax wrote: This post felt okay on my first read iirc and awful on this one, it's a bunch of sugar sprinkles after a game state complaint. Vivax can you explain how this post would be fine on your first read but not on your second? I can understand disagreeing I just don't get what was wrong with it from your perspective if it was fine the first time? | ||
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On June 15 2023 18:53 TankTopTiger wrote: So now I'm waiting on some cryptic bullshit from you, from MZ, and from Chez? Righto. Fun game guys let's all defer saying anything until it's too late. | ||
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On June 15 2023 19:17 Vivax wrote: I could relate to one and three, but it fitted within your hands-off style approach you had at the time while DP was putting in the legwork. On reread I liked it less because it looked like you stylized it for self representation purposes. Okay, thanks. | ||
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On June 10 2023 06:21 Vivax wrote: I‘m like 90% sure LS is mind boggingly town after a skim. And y‘all thought you were good. At this point in the game, LS was scummy af. 90% is very high. Do you think it was reasonable for you to read him like this at this point in the game? Why? | ||
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This wasn't represented in your voting behaviour. You also had a gut-town-read on Vayo but flipflopped around. | ||
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On June 15 2023 19:24 Vivax wrote: He lacked the shakey vibes he had as mafia. And he fought back hard instead of posting a baby seal. That‘s the short version. But I could probably revisit him and dig up more. I just don‘t think it‘s very productive to discuss him at all. That's fine. No need. | ||
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On June 15 2023 19:25 TankTopTiger wrote: This wasn't represented in your voting behaviour. You also had a gut-town-read on Vayo but flipflopped around. Sorry just reposting so doesn't get buried. This is the last one. | ||
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The only real doubt I have is the terrible vote TTT post but it was terrible as town or mafia. In an unexpected turn of events I see you as pretty green now. | ||
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Trust me when I say that any timeline in which DP is town, DP is abosofuckinglutely clueless and hating himself and at times others for it. | ||
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Hap was a player who rocks as town and sucks as mafia, so a default NK. Rayne? Well... I can't pretend his kill was obvious, but he is a good NK. He's a strong player, and people shit-talking him for his arrogance over the NK makes the wifom delicious. His NK was never not on the table. While DP gets credit from myself, Rayne, Marv, he does not get that credit from others to the same extent that Rayn or Marv do. He's also been clueless (as have we all) as town, but he was leading a clueless town and that makes NKing him less useful. So to me, DP being alive makes sense at this point. Happy to revisit if he survives the next NK. But there is no reality in which I vote for him today. | ||
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On June 15 2023 19:57 DarthPunk wrote: This post where he agrees with a read by Rayn whose conclusion is based on Rayns misunderstanding of the phrase 'doubles down' and is therefore tragically wrong. Can I just get clarification here? +MZ had two reads: Vayo and LS. +LS claims +MZ doubles down on "policy lynching" Vayo, his other read +Rayn misreads this as him abandoning his second read +Marv thinks this is a good take This is what happened? Because if it is, this is super solid. | ||
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On June 15 2023 20:14 Vivax wrote: This push on marv came out of nowhere but I‘m happy to ride along for the time being. Woah what possible reservations can you have? Why are you giving yourself outs this case is gold. | ||
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Does he sort of take charge or let people play the game their own way? Is he the sort of scum that might encourage others to lurk tactically or anything like that? | ||
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What do you think of DP's case on Marv? No need to catch up rn we have a golden opportunity to talk | ||
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On June 15 2023 19:49 DarthPunk wrote: 3 posts later... This has bothered me for ages. Fixed On June 15 2023 19:57 DarthPunk wrote: This post where he agrees with a read by Rayn whose conclusion is based on Rayns misunderstanding of the phrase 'doubles down' and is therefore tragically wrong. If you can give your thoughts hot off the press that could go a super long way. | ||
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It's also against how I see MZ as working. MZ is a strong independent woman who don't need no Marv. Last game, he tried to lynch Marv D1 and that was based af. All of town were on Marvs dick for no reason but not MZ. Now MZ is cuddling up to him when Marv has been kinda absent. Why? | ||
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On June 15 2023 20:37 DarthPunk wrote: the only post that even mentions wagonomics for his thinking on TTT was this: Actually most of his thinking was based on reading his filter: He is saying to rayn that his thinking on you (maybe being town) was mostly due to the makeup of the wagons, but this is in fact not the case as he stated it was from reading your filters. That's fine, and like a bit bad from Marv, but it's diluting the case IMO. It's the sort of thing he could talk his way out of and also I'm not convinced a town marv couldn't do after his not reading my trap question last game properly. I could make that mistake as town. | ||
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We'll ask Marv just in case, but I don't see how it can possibly be a misunderstanding. Assuming there is no misunderstanding, is this damning? | ||
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Wait vivax you get proprioception of the brain? Is that even possible? The brain has no sensory receptors in it. Anything you feel about the brain is definitely not the brain. And you say it's the right hemisphere? Because that's where you experience it or are you guessing based on expectations of hemispheric lateralisation of function? | ||
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Copcake deserved to get lynched for her initial misplay but was ungodly resilient (which is absolutely a credit to her). I wasn't kidding when I said you guys let unjustified claims go for no reason. I really think town dropped the ball on this one. You guys care so much about feels shit that when someone straight up TMI's you're quicker to accuse the already vindicated accuser of sexism (softly but still) before you accept it's a good read. DMB was not DP's first choice, nor his second. He defended DMB at the end and did not want her lynched, but town momentum had nowhere else to go at this point. Sexism and implicit bias can definitely be a problem. Hell, DP might even have it somewhere deep down. But what transpired isn't evidence of such. Bad VE. DMB you get a pass though for being an obs hero. | ||
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