[M][N][72/24]Midnight Sun Mafia
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wherebugsgo
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On May 12 2019 01:51 RaGe wrote: /obs It's been ages since I played Mafia, kinda wanna get in to it again you should play! | ||
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the only thing I actually read is the OP | ||
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On May 13 2019 20:32 VisceraEyes wrote: Don't pressure observers guys, that's how we get lurkers in games. Observers, by keeping games clean you're doing God's work. <3 lynch all...observers? | ||
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that was a hilarious game | ||
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On May 17 2019 08:07 VisceraEyes wrote: Why isn't Slam in this game too? Just wait till day 2, slam will be in the game then | ||
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On May 17 2019 19:14 Alakaslam wrote: I do know a lot about worldwide ppl (mostly Asia) but usually when i am bragging and being an asshole like I’ve been to you all I am bragging about y’all “I’ve been a member of a worldwide forum of some of the more insightful people you might find. Generally, we sit around and play mafia but that brings us in. We discuss stuff, usually around board games but people have had some real nuggets of advice- i’ve learned a lot and opened my mind since using it.” Yeh Y’all cool mmkay? what part of Asia? btw next time I'm in LA and it's not just a layover let's do some eats | ||
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On May 19 2019 17:45 Holyflare wrote: I think I'll start this game off on the right foot and vote the most suspicious guy so far. I can only imagine it will go down well. ##vote raynpelikoneet HF confirmed town | ||
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go look at your role PM. BTW I'm glad you're here asking this question in this game help me read you properly and all will be fine | ||
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On May 19 2019 20:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: What? I copy pasted my first post from last game and changed some words and order lol. ##vote raynpelikoneet | ||
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although confirmed town is an exaggeration, I think it should be obvious why I consider HF town and rayn not, at least with this amount of info. I also really like how everyone besides HF is arguing on the behalf of rayn and every time rayn posts he makes himself look worse. Let him talk about other things, his defense so far is not getting us anywhere. | ||
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basically every time I get called scum on day 1 I'm not scum | ||
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On May 19 2019 21:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I dont believe your attitude here is real. I feel a disconnect between the first paragraph and the spoiler. There's like three different contrasting emotions in here and I find it hard to reconcile as anything other than putting up a front. ##vote wherebugsgo cool story bro when rayn goes and slinks off and eventually votes me with made up reasons make sure you don't blink or you'll miss it | ||
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On May 19 2019 22:24 Conversion wrote: Let’s start this rodeo off right with my 2019 goal ##Vote: Holyflare is your goal to make everything more confusing? On May 19 2019 21:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: I mean this is the whole point of the case. Holyflare can actually brainfart and believe this is true and definitely is shameless enough to write shit like that. So nothing much to say about him. Jock is probably just new enough to idk just sheep and not think further. Gut says town becaise it would just give him more to talk about if he was just being right. Bugs should know better. Artanis and VE are being smart, which doesnt surprise me. At least VE is most likely friend. Latest posts say Artanis might be too. Since there's a chance you are town and just not able to see clearly, I want you and everyone else here to know that at least my reason for voting you has very little to do with the VT post. It was a factor in me noticing you but not my reason for voting you. So please, if you're town, you can stop wasting time thinking this is the whole crux of the reason I am calling you scum because it is not leading us anywhere closer to solving the game. I don't want to speak for HF but based on what he's said in-thread I don't think it's why he thinks you're scum either. Your best bet is to listen to the person you called a noob and actually provide some real reads. Just so we're clear, calling people dumb for calling you scum and calling others smart for not calling you scum is not an indication to me that you have any real reads, regardless of how many words you type to reach those conclusions. I'm going to bed, if anyone has any questions for me they desperately want answered when I'm back feel free to ask. | ||
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also VE you’re making me tingly this game in a way I wasn’t feeling at all last game and that makes me really sad. With that said if you can talk to me about BC and it makes sense maybe I’ll feel better about you. So tell me, what do you think of BC? BC, similar question to you. How would you read VE right now? | ||
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I think his vote post is strange but it’s equally strange to try to pressure/kill someone who up front said they’re not going to be here for a while. It accomplishes very little and inevitably iGrok will just come back and complain for being voted while afk regardless of alignment. | ||
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On May 20 2019 07:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Already posted my read seconds before you bugsywuggsy So far feels similar to my d1 feels of him last game. Things can change though. However since both VE and you are here bugs. Lets restore some order? Sure, I’ll try to respond as best I can, on a train to work and then I’ll be unavailable for a few hours. After my morning meetings I’ll be fairly open, in about 3 hours or so | ||
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Comparing to last game and based on what Jock said post-game I think his posts here are within the bands of what I’d expect for a reasonable town adjustment. My read there is not strong but I do think what rayn has said about him is completely wrong. I’d suggest reading the first few pages without filter diving and see what conclusion you come up with. I’m particularly curious if you think town-rayn would come to the same conclusion and whether you think the aggression is real. | ||
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On May 20 2019 07:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why would you kill a townie that wants to lynch mafia? You know he’s town? btw I didn’t see anyone else mention this and I’m sad because I wanted a free town read so I’ll just come out and say it myself VE used activity to paint iGrok scummy based on him being replaced last game but actually iGrok was town last game, replaced by slam. I can’t point out the post now because I’m on mobile but 99.999% sure VE’s post was saying this. Seems like it might have just been an honest mistake but VE is quite sharp | ||
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On May 20 2019 07:59 Holyflare wrote: I mean, that's not the reason VE voted or called iGrok scummy in the slightest? He said he didn't like how iGrok called rayn friend for his opening post and then voted rayn for his opening post. There was a whole discussion about it? I didn’t say that. I was just pointing out something. Go read my post again, carefully, then go read VE’s posts (probably from the last page?) again. He makes one post to the effect of something like “iGrok replaced out of last game as mafia” and assuming he is talking about the game we all just played, that is not true. | ||
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On May 20 2019 08:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: why am i anot mafia? why i was mafia in the first place? let's hear it. My read on you hasn’t moved much tbh, in my spreadsheet last night I had you as a coin flip (compared to 25% baseline) . I think ruxxar is just a better lynch and if you’re town you have plenty of activity and potential to shape up, especially if you’re not constantly on edge due to people calling you scum. I don’t often find your reads very useful in general though, and this game you don’t seem to have many yet so it would be nice if you spent some time actually trying to reduce unknowns rather than attack people for doing things you don’t like. | ||
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On May 20 2019 07:19 Calix wrote: Actually you know what? I am calling bullshit on this. This seems way too convenient. VE just HAPPENED to warn us against pushing rayn too much, tried diverting to iGrok, claimed rayn would ruin the game if we kept pushing him, etc. Then rayn just latches onto a bad case against Jock and pushes it with a vastly disproportionate amount of confidence before making a random and completely unwarranted role claim and generally acting like he's lost his shit. Emphasis on the acting. I'm more tempted to think VE/ rayn set this up than anything else. There are lots of 'hints' beforehand that make me suspicious as to how authentic they're being. #shamelesstinfoil Calix I want to hear about the hints you described, can you point them out to me? | ||
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Also I don’t know how anyone can say they are 100% sure on reading Jock either way, especially someone who played last game and witnessed us mislynch him in the presence of virtually identical rhetoric | ||
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On May 20 2019 07:29 disformation wrote: where is jock? or are you withholding that read (i am super curious after you asked everyone to comment on it) until everyone commented on it? -.- What is your read on Jock? And what do you think of Conversion coming in and calling you flaky? | ||
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On May 20 2019 08:31 Conversion wrote: help me out and tell me who you’re lunching today bc all i remember from you is shitting on rayn and saying you’re going to ignore him and im on a phone and lazy are you still on rayn? no, I'm on ruxxar btw anyone find it interesting that koshi confirmed but never posted? | ||
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On May 20 2019 08:34 Conversion wrote: koshi literally has no posts and lazily plays all the time why is he on the list | ||
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VE, BC while I’m gone sheep me on ruxxar or explain why you don’t want to Also define who’s a thread skimmer/lurker this game and rank them on kill priority | ||
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On May 20 2019 09:45 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm gonna pass on that one. A) You've given literally no reasoning that I can see for your vote aside from "for that one post alone" which, filtering you in isolation, I can't even see which it is. So... B) I filtered ruxxar and found that his posting seems internally consistent, and relatively comprehensive as far as "what you should know about me" posts go. It feels this side of townie to me. I'm not going to rank lurkers on kill priority, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard what are you even fucking doing? you're right, I didn't post reasons for ruxxar, mostly because I put too much faith in people actually going back to read his only post of any real substance and it being self-explanatory from his entrance. It's quite simple: On May 20 2019 04:47 ruXxar wrote: sup guys, long time no see. skimmed through the thread, dont remember all the specifics. i dont wanna lynch the active people, cause they make the game fun. - jockmcplop is top town, he speaks from his heart. - hf looks townie, i love when he gets riled up. - VE seems aight, could be deviously smart mafia. - rayn attacking jockmcplop is dumb, and his fumbling to explain his first post was meh, dont make him mafia tho. - bugs looks aigh tish. - i dont like calix. seem stiff and too sure of himself. looks like hes posting with perferct information. already certain of his opinons, and just tries to find the best angle to defend them. ##Vote calix 3 things that stand out: 1. Doesn't want to lynch active people but isn't actively involved either. In fact there's almost a hidden implication that ruxxar doesn't intend to be active in that statement 2. First 5 bullets come off as "I need to post some reads so I can continue skating by so let me summarize some basics and say things others probably would agree with" 3. Calix vote justification looks forced and justification for the sake of justification. When Calix responded by saying "yeah well, it looks like that way because I'm sheeping" ruxxar's only response was to concede that the pronouns were wrong. | ||
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On May 20 2019 09:45 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm gonna pass on that one. A) You've given literally no reasoning that I can see for your vote aside from "for that one post alone" which, filtering you in isolation, I can't even see which it is. So... B) I filtered ruxxar and found that his posting seems internally consistent, and relatively comprehensive as far as "what you should know about me" posts go. It feels this side of townie to me. I'm not going to rank lurkers on kill priority, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard what are you even fucking doing? bolded I find really weird btw and BC I want to know what you think. VE to make this a more specific question, I want to ask you: do you think iGrok is a lurker/thread skimmer? ruxxar? disformation? BTW someone like Koshi I would not define as either because he's currently 100% absent. Last game we played with Vivax, who posted twice into accidental modkill (and despite the host mistake was probably on track for one eventually anyway) Koshi, who didn't really do anything either and you shot, and Grack who actually played for real. I think you and I would have both agreed in that game that given no other choices we would have killed Vivax over Rels in a head-to-head comparison despite both having the same number of posts d1. This is what I'm asking you to do now, mostly for my benefit in reading you because at the current rate I think there's a good chance we'll disagree on a fair amount of things. | ||
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On May 20 2019 12:09 VisceraEyes wrote: Then ya I mostly can't help in that regard...I've been almost as absent as you lately. All of the names you listed I have been able to get a read on one way or another in games past or I don't remember playing with them and don't specifically recall if they tended to lurk or not. That their activity in this game is less isn't indicative one way or another to me. my question isn't hinging on past games, I'm asking you to rank them based on their play this game, and based on their play in this game do you think they are lurking/thread skimming/whatever. If you think some number of players fit into that category, however neat, well, or poorly defined that category might be for you, it's important to me esp for day 1 because I think day 1 lynches tend to be very low hit rate and I would rather give a lot of the players in this game time to develop their reads and post enough to reduce the variability that we just hit them on an off day or whatever, especially after we saw what happened last game. Since I feel you're being a bit difficult, I'm going to work out my thoughts for you and put them in a spoiler. If you really think this is a waste of time then go ahead and read the spoiler before responding but I'm trusting you on honor that you'll take my word for it and give your thoughts before getting your opinion tainted by mine. + Show Spoiler + Like just on reputation and posting we've seen so far I wouldn't lynch you, BC, HF, rayn, Artanis, Calix, or Jock today. Of the remaining players at this very moment I'd rule out Koshi because of absence and I don't see anything wrong with Conversion's posts. That leaves 3 players on my lynch list for d1: iGrok disformation ruxxar There is already evidence for iGrok being low on time. Based on what little he's posted so far, this smells exactly the same to me as the Rels lynch from last game. I don't agree on your post about him saying he's "also" friendly because it reads a lot into a single word, and I believe the host business is not alignment indicative. Those are literally the only two pieces of info to go off, so I think moving him from the 25% baseline is not warranted; I'm willing to put him aside along with Koshi. disformation vs ruxxar, I have a strong preference for killing ruxxar because disformation's posts to some degree indicated attempts at trying to figure out the game. He responded to direct questions and he provided a reasonable interpretation of Jock's posts. There are things that might be fishy in his posts but again, low information content, and to me the information that is there indicates town rather than scum. For ruxxar this is not the case, just refer to my previous post on that matter. | ||
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On May 20 2019 08:31 Conversion wrote: help me out and tell me who you’re lunching today bc all i remember from you is shitting on rayn and saying you’re going to ignore him and im on a phone and lazy are you still on rayn? as I responded earlier I'm on ruxxar but I wanted to follow up on this again. I'm happy to make this day between ruxxar and disformation. I posted earlier in response to VE about why I think ruxxar is scum: On May 20 2019 10:44 wherebugsgo wrote: you're right, I didn't post reasons for ruxxar, mostly because I put too much faith in people actually going back to read his only post of any real substance and it being self-explanatory from his entrance. It's quite simple: 3 things that stand out: 1. Doesn't want to lynch active people but isn't actively involved either. In fact there's almost a hidden implication that ruxxar doesn't intend to be active in that statement 2. First 5 bullets come off as "I need to post some reads so I can continue skating by so let me summarize some basics and say things others probably would agree with" 3. Calix vote justification looks forced and justification for the sake of justification. When Calix responded by saying "yeah well, it looks like that way because I'm sheeping" ruxxar's only response was to concede that the pronouns were wrong. I could be convinced on disformation because my read there isn't strong but we'll need to wait a while for EU to wake up again to see his responses. If you want my gut read on disformation feel free to read my spoiler in my last post. In the meanwhile, do you agree or disagree on ruxxar? | ||
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On May 20 2019 13:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Honestly bugs as the person who linked the ruxxar post you jumped on as a vote im not going to "sheep you" hes already on my fucking mafia list for his shit. Fuck, his re entry to this thread is also disgustingly bad since then. between him and Calix I think we have a guarenteed mafia (possibly 2, not ruling it out). Disinformation really needs to step it up, but based on day 1 screams scum as of the moment. sorry I actually completely missed the fact that you were on ruxxar even though when I just reread now I remembered those posts. But since we're in agreement let's vote together I can see some merit for wanting to kill Calix but I also see lots of reasons not to kill Calix. IIRC Calix played similar to this when I was scum and Calix was town about a year ago, even did something similar with that colour shading of names (hands up for any of you calling Calix scum, if you thought that particular detail was scummy) and does not seem to be afraid to put up some resistance here. Calix also I think is an asset if town and I don't want to kill potential assets on d1. Now. I know you all hate Rayn for screaming at the top of his lungs about killing jock. You both have (VE and Bugs) has said nothing strikes you as strange however. After reading https://tl.net/forum/mafia/544405-fibonacci-mafia?user=Jockmcplop I am a little suspect. Not going to say hes a priority as of right now, but there is a shot of a real hit based purely on this. I find it unlikely (not impossible) that someone could roll town 3 games in a row and completely change their playstyle 3 games in a row. I don't quite understand what that game has to do with this one. I also don't follow your logic on rolling town 3 games in a row and changing his playstyle 3 games in a row. Here's what's given: 1. We know he changed his playstyle twice already. If anything this just tells us that he's willing to try different things and it's hard to say if this is alignment indicative 2. Last game, he got mislynched because people jumped on him for changing his style and couldn't read him properly, thought he was scum based on him being a bit too abrasive on d1 and not providing any real reads. 3. From the postgame, he admitted he was trying something out and he'll not do that again the next game. I don't remember if he mentioned why he changed his style in the first place, but perhaps he thought that his original approach just didn't work for whatever reason, changed it once, that failed, so now third time's the charm. Collectively our record on meta has been pretty trash so I think there need to be better reasons for wanting to kill Jock than this for me to be convinced. | ||
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My goal from now is to pivot from everyone just throwing around suspicions and trying to get something to stick to a focus on 2-3 players. I think any more is probably too many, and only 1 would probably be risky as well. My order would be Ruxxar -> Disformation -> Calix, with Calix being fairly largely separated; I've actually only listed Calix because others have some decent points I can concede. I think the posts we need from the rest of the players will naturally follow if we funnel the talking in this direction, and we'll have good control over the lynch as well. BTW this is sort of an observation I made when I was based in U.S. timezones and playing with EU players like Palmar but really didn't fully understand it fully until moving to Asia: I think a lot of things that revolve around activity stem from people just not being in the thread at the same time. I was getting a lot of complaints last game for "disappearing" from the thread when I was just asleep or not around, and I'm quite an active player. Right now, the thread seems a bit quiet to me and I have to look at the times and confirm who might be around in order to prevent my mind from going crazy about how X player is not here because of Y scummy reason and not, you know, with the application of Occam's Razor that they're not around just because they can't be. I think we should take advantage of the fact that we have 72 hours in the day; conversational posts are nice when you can help confirm others' reads through questions, but in this game I think consolidating posts will be more helpful. | ||
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On May 20 2019 15:07 Jockmcplop wrote: Fuck you man. I'm here ask anything you want. I'm also grumpy in the mornings. Would you kill ruxxar? If no, why not? What about disformation and Calix? Those are the three options I am presenting today, and if you want my rationale you can check my previous posts. We aren’t killing rayn day 1. | ||
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On May 20 2019 10:44 wherebugsgo wrote: man I hate when I'm timeboxed for decisions. I've got one I've got to make before the 27th and I'd rather just punt it for 6 months but people are impatient /rl rant you're right, I didn't post reasons for ruxxar, mostly because I put too much faith in people actually going back to read his only post of any real substance and it being self-explanatory from his entrance. It's quite simple: 3 things that stand out: 1. Doesn't want to lynch active people but isn't actively involved either. In fact there's almost a hidden implication that ruxxar doesn't intend to be active in that statement 2. First 5 bullets come off as "I need to post some reads so I can continue skating by so let me summarize some basics and say things others probably would agree with" 3. Calix vote justification looks forced and justification for the sake of justification. When Calix responded by saying "yeah well, it looks like that way because I'm sheeping" ruxxar's only response was to concede that the pronouns were wrong. The tl;dr is that my read is on the basis of ruxxar’s entrance post plus his reaction to the resistance that Calix put up. | ||
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In so far as that post stuck out to me, I’m in agreement. My problem is that disformation is objectively not a bad lead. I want to give the two of them more time to see whether that clears itself up and one or both of them post things that make more sense. The scummiest thing that conversion has done is call someone scum for being flaky, in a flaky way. There was the past game point that you pointed out which also stuck out to me but this is less indicative, IMO. Btw I’m actually so happy you stepped in my town trap because now I’m more confident in my read on you. I looked at conversion’s post history to see if he had any past games after he troll voted HF, to see if he trolls in general. The last game point is one that I let slip to see if someone else would catch it | ||
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On May 20 2019 15:50 ruXxar wrote: You dont like my entry post but seem just entirely fine with calix list post. Of course you do when he calls you town lmao Your reaction to resistance on your vote vs Calix's reaction are pretty worlds apart. Hell, even the posts themselves are pretty different. When someone cites another post as part of their rationale in a way that makes sense, and manage to do this very consistently, I find it less likely they are scum. You didn't do that, did you? Now, what's odd is that you are calling me out for calling one list post bad, but not the other. You want me to look away from your scumminess at someone else...who according to you, did a very similar thing to you? Anyway, enough about you. The choices I'm presenting people with that aren't you are disformation and Calix. Given that I think your reason for voting Calix isn't valid, and you just basically said both your post AND Calix's post were scummy, I'd like to hear what you think about disformation. Failing that, talk to me about conversion's push on disformation. If you can't do either of those things then I'll narrow the list and recommend everyone just lynch you and you only. | ||
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On May 20 2019 15:55 ruXxar wrote: I do the same shit when im mafia, playing the “knowitlall good guy mafiiso armchair hunter #1” Then please go ahead and point out such a post in a past scum game of yours. It shouldn't be terribly hard for you to do that if you're telling the truth. | ||
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On May 20 2019 16:21 Holyflare wrote: I think your post has a lot of merit, it's flaky and apologetic when it doesn't need to be. Like it a lot better than whatever people are posting about ruxxar because I don't think ruxxar looks too bad tbh. I don't like how bugs has essentially discounted iGrok and solely talked about VE's points and not mine and then given iGrok an afk excuse pass. If your point on iGrok is that he’s scummy because his only reason for voting rayn was the host thing, then yes, I disagree with that point. Back when I was fairly new to the forum (and iGrok used to play as well) we’d kill people over slips like that and I think there was an impression that it was a fairly effective way to find scum. I think there have been several games in which someone got screwed by role breadcrumbing, to the point where it got banned. I never thought it was a reliable way to catch scum but lots of people disagreed with me, and given iGrok’s tenure I wouldn’t be shocked if he’s in that camp. I’m giving him a pass because I don’t think lynching him has high value prop here. Like I said earlier he really doesn’t look all that different to me than Rels did last game. OTOH several other players look worse to me based on post content, notably ruxxar, disformation, and conversion. | ||
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He did the exact same thing last game LOL | ||
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On May 20 2019 16:35 Koshi wrote: I also deleted or not posted 1 quote because I really dislike spamming. ROFL Koshi I legitimately want to keep you alive just because this is hilarious | ||
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On May 20 2019 16:42 ruXxar wrote: So is calix scummy or not? Make up your mind. You say im scummy for reading calix as scum, but now youre calling calix scum also. #galaxybrain My mind is pretty made up, Calix is not scummy to me. I didn't call Calix scum even once in that post? You are calling attention to Calix for apparently, according to your own logic, making a post similar to the one you made. THAT, aka what YOU did, is scummy. I literally just said that I think your post and Calix's post are not similar. On May 20 2019 16:49 BloodyC0bbler wrote: given that the lurkers in this game more or less (so far) are like Disinformation Ruxxar Calix and like Conversion are in that list more or less im semi fine with that? But only because most of the people lurking thus far are people i already want to hang. If you are so unsure with the current thread trend and who to lynch id almost say rng it instead. what do you make of ruxxar's responses to me? | ||
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On May 20 2019 17:04 Jockmcplop wrote: Can you point out specific posts that you feel are trying to sow discontent and how he's doing that please? Again, I need things explaining to me as if I'm a baby. It makes the game easier to play that way. Koshi is basically shitting on me and HF and praising VE & artanis, rayn etc. I wanna leave him alive purely cause he's hilarious but in srs we should probably just kill him | ||
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On May 20 2019 18:10 Koshi wrote: Welcome to smart town. PS: also mafia reside in smart town. On May 20 2019 17:27 Koshi wrote: (He is part of dumb part of town) PS: mafia also lives in dumb part of town. | ||
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On May 20 2019 18:53 Jockmcplop wrote: I'll let you guys figure it out when it comes to my play. I'm trying to be transparent about my reasoning. I'm not too happy with koshi ignoring me because my points are too simplistic. If i was mafia I'd be delighted to be put in the stupid townie bracket but honestly I jsut wnat to lynch scum and play the game cooperatively with you guys. If koshi's ignoring me he is going directly against my objective of lynching scum and is therefore anti-town at best. Koshi if you think my reads are stupid or whatever help me read people better don't just say you're gonna ignore me cos that's just not cool. Koshi has a good chance of being scum this game so if you're town just ignore him With that said, I am starting to agree with you on Conversion as well. + Show Spoiler + let it be known that this post contains a town-trap. I hope someone figures out why i've made this link | ||
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Sounded like you find him easy to read normally, though. | ||
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Koshi why is it that you don't care about Conversion? Does this mean you don't read him as either town nor scum? Sounded like you find him easy to read normally, though. Also why don't you just vote Calix? | ||
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On May 20 2019 19:42 VisceraEyes wrote: Lemme go read the case on Calix, surely it's been posted right? Like I missed it before but I don't really believe that Bugs and BC both voting without reasoning. what? | ||
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?? BC isn't on Calix either?? | ||
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On May 20 2019 19:52 VisceraEyes wrote: But you've both stated willingness to lynch Calix? Am I misremembering that too? I'm willing to let other people consider it. I don't have reasons of my own to kill Calix though. Really I want to see if people can come up with decent arguments to kill Calix, or if it's just a push by scum. | ||
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rayn I'd consider the raging hobo who I feel bad for and occasionally give money to but he smells bad and yells a lot so I'd rather put him outside Anyway you have a chance to be let in, don't worry. I see you knocking at that door. You'll have to help us out on koshi, conversion, and ruxxar first though. Which would you kill right now, at this very moment? BTW HF is the Koshi bandage something you reckon we rip off now or later? He basically just said he won't stop trolling/shitting the thread up until we vote him out, and honestly given the game so far I don't see any reason for a townie, even Koshi, to blow up this hard | ||
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On May 20 2019 20:03 Calix wrote: I don't agree with your characterisation of Koshi here. He's been posting quite a lot of his thoughts and when reading them, I didn't see them as 'trolling/ shitting up the thread'. are we even reading the same game right now | ||
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On May 20 2019 20:07 Calix wrote: Apparently yes. This isn't to say I think he's town, just that I don't think the huge number of short posts he's making are AI. Which is what you were referring to in this post ^^ My main problem with him is that he's gunning so hard for my head right now and not for good reason. So it's hard for me to trust him or what he says because [if town] his view of the game is so distorted. go read this: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/545657-uninspired-mafia?user=Koshi and then this: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/533201-elementary-mafia?user=Koshi And tell me if Koshi is different alignments between the two. hint: I think you're right that the huge number of short posts are not alignment indicative. | ||
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"wbg asked me to vote my scumread therefore he is mafia" as the wind passed between his cheeks | ||
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ruxxar put up a weak front when responding to me and then just disappeared, while everyone else has just gone on to talk about all sorts of other things. Koshi's entrance and almost every entrance since then (like Artanis's) just make it easier for him to continue hiding. He's still the best lynch here. disformation's response isn't completely awful, and Conversion's response to Jock feels a bit overblown but it's easier to ignore him for now and let him calm down a bit because it reduces variance. On May 20 2019 22:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote: That's not how I read it and I'm not sure how you got there. this is to everyone, but mostly you and VE because you are the ones asserting this: rather than assume what Calix is saying why not just get Calix to say it directly? Nitpicking someone is not a great way to establish their alignment | ||
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On May 20 2019 23:07 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I can't understand WBG's read progressions. What makes iGrok's vote just weird and RuXxar bad? iGrok's vote is weird because it's singularly based on the role breadcrumbing. I already explained this in detail in a previous post so I'm just going to quote myself: On May 20 2019 16:28 wherebugsgo wrote: If your point on iGrok is that he’s scummy because his only reason for voting rayn was the host thing, then yes, I disagree with that point. Back when I was fairly new to the forum (and iGrok used to play as well) we’d kill people over slips like that and I think there was an impression that it was a fairly effective way to find scum. I think there have been several games in which someone got screwed by role breadcrumbing, to the point where it got banned. I never thought it was a reliable way to catch scum but lots of people disagreed with me, and given iGrok’s tenure I wouldn’t be shocked if he’s in that camp. I’m giving him a pass because I don’t think lynching him has high value prop here. Like I said earlier he really doesn’t look all that different to me than Rels did last game. OTOH several other players look worse to me based on post content, notably ruxxar, disformation, and conversion. On May 20 2019 23:07 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also WBG indicates he feels Jock is playing virtually identically to last game. WBG, can you explain in what way his rhetoric is the same yet his playstyle is different? To me, this reads like you're appeasing BC's reasons for his read despite them at the very least somewhat disagreeing your assertion. You then throw shade on your own opinions as well. What's going on here? in the presence of identical rhetoric == what other people are saying about Jock. Last game half the game jumped on his ass almost out of the gate on day 1 because his style changed, and I started seeing elements of that here as well, particularly from rayn. I myself eventually participated in mislynching Jock last game because I ended up not liking Jock's responses to me. | ||
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I don't believe nitpicking is an effective scumhunting tactic because it opens up an opportunity for the target to respond in a fairly emotional manner as either alignment. and this makes reading them harder. Much more effective would be to actually get Calix to commit to some reads and opinions so that we can see what makes sense and what doesn't; the players who are actively trying to figure out the game and don't have completely whacky opinions and progressions will end up being town. | ||
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On May 20 2019 23:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote: So you're stating that whilst Jock's approach to the game is differently, it's the manner in which people respond to him that's the same? I'm not sure how that is a relevant point as it has no relevance on his alignment. How do you feel he's playing this game compared to previous games and why do you feel so solid in townreading him now? it does have relevance on his alignment, because if he's changed his alignment several times and people are saying that's a reason to call him scum, why wouldn't I call that out? I thought that BC was saying that Jock looks scummier for changing his style in this game, for the third time in a row, so I wanted to cut that off because I thought it's a bad argument; I think it's not alignment indicative especially because Jock said in post-game that he was intending on trying out new things again. Granted, BC clarified and said he was just saying he wants to keep Jock on a watchlist for the style change so this really doesn't mean much at this point. I'm confident in townreading him because 1. he caught at least one thing I purposely let go and didn't point out myself to see if others would catch onto the same ideas and 2. based on several things he's said and done in thread it genuinely seems to me like he's trying to figure out the game. I honestly don't really care about comparing Jock's play to past games because I already feel like I can read him from his posts in this game alone. I only use meta when I have a certain hunch about some particular behaviour that a player is exhibiting and I want to figure out whether that lies more often in their town vs scum game. | ||
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On May 20 2019 23:26 Calix wrote: Why are you so against lynching me anyway? I cannot recall you giving any reasons to town-read me. I was pretty open to letting people talk about why they want to kill you but I've decided that there's been enough time and at this point the arguments are getting worse and not better, so I want to funnel the discussion toward other people who are more likely to flip scum d1 than you. On May 20 2019 14:06 wherebugsgo wrote: sorry I actually completely missed the fact that you were on ruxxar even though when I just reread now I remembered those posts. But since we're in agreement let's vote together I can see some merit for wanting to kill Calix but I also see lots of reasons not to kill Calix. IIRC Calix played similar to this when I was scum and Calix was town about a year ago, even did something similar with that colour shading of names (hands up for any of you calling Calix scum, if you thought that particular detail was scummy) and does not seem to be afraid to put up some resistance here. Calix also I think is an asset if town and I don't want to kill potential assets on d1. On May 20 2019 19:53 wherebugsgo wrote: I'm willing to let other people consider it. I don't have reasons of my own to kill Calix though. Really I want to see if people can come up with decent arguments to kill Calix, or if it's just a push by scum. Also I think no one actually read this post of mine or it got buried for whatever reason: On May 20 2019 12:41 wherebugsgo wrote: my question isn't hinging on past games, I'm asking you to rank them based on their play this game, and based on their play in this game do you think they are lurking/thread skimming/whatever. If you think some number of players fit into that category, however neat, well, or poorly defined that category might be for you, it's important to me esp for day 1 because I think day 1 lynches tend to be very low hit rate and I would rather give a lot of the players in this game time to develop their reads and post enough to reduce the variability that we just hit them on an off day or whatever, especially after we saw what happened last game. Since I feel you're being a bit difficult, I'm going to work out my thoughts for you and put them in a spoiler. If you really think this is a waste of time then go ahead and read the spoiler before responding but I'm trusting you on honor that you'll take my word for it and give your thoughts before getting your opinion tainted by mine. + Show Spoiler + Like just on reputation and posting we've seen so far I wouldn't lynch you, BC, HF, rayn, Artanis, Calix, or Jock today. Of the remaining players at this very moment I'd rule out Koshi because of absence and I don't see anything wrong with Conversion's posts. That leaves 3 players on my lynch list for d1: iGrok disformation ruxxar There is already evidence for iGrok being low on time. Based on what little he's posted so far, this smells exactly the same to me as the Rels lynch from last game. I don't agree on your post about him saying he's "also" friendly because it reads a lot into a single word, and I believe the host business is not alignment indicative. Those are literally the only two pieces of info to go off, so I think moving him from the 25% baseline is not warranted; I'm willing to put him aside along with Koshi. disformation vs ruxxar, I have a strong preference for killing ruxxar because disformation's posts to some degree indicated attempts at trying to figure out the game. He responded to direct questions and he provided a reasonable interpretation of Jock's posts. There are things that might be fishy in his posts but again, low information content, and to me the information that is there indicates town rather than scum. For ruxxar this is not the case, just refer to my previous post on that matter. Based on recent thread events I no longer want to consider disformation for a lynch, and I'm not very convinced on conversion either. This just leaves ruxxar, who didn't really respond to things, muddied my credibility by saying that I'm preachy and that I sound like his scum game (and then he disappeared shortly after I asked him to point out this similarity with an example) and has been chainsaw defended for hours despite having done nothing defense-worthy. | ||
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If you're all town, then please work with me and each other. I'm about to peace off to bed soon but bring the focus back to ruxxar and disformation where it belongs. My stances are pretty clear, just go read my posts. And, if you have your doubts on me being town at this point then honestly I don't know what to tell you. | ||
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On May 20 2019 23:34 VisceraEyes wrote: I would probably kill any of HF/Bugs simply for saying I'm not as strongly town as last game. Get fukt boyz. VE this is honestly not helping if you want me to get a stronger town read on you then stop flamebaiting Jock and help restore some order. Like you of all people should know that this: On May 20 2019 17:51 Fecalfeast wrote: Day One Vote Count iGrok (2): VisceraEyes, Holyflare RuXxar (2): Wherebugsgo, BloodyC0bbler Raynpelikoneet (1): Wherebugsgo (1): Artanis[Xp], Calix (1): RuXxar, Jockmcplop (1): Raynpelikoneet conversion(1): Jockmcplop Disformation (1): Conversion Holyflare (0): Not voting (3): Koshi, iGrok, Disformation iGrok is currently set to be lynched. Please let us know if you notice any mistakes. The deadline is Wednesday, May 22 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in is not a good look ATM. | ||
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On May 20 2019 23:38 Jockmcplop wrote: You could say that we need to town confirm each other before we can even start trying solve the game together, right? you could make the argument that people fighting each other like that are more likely to be town, and I would agree, but I think there are much better ways of solving the game that don't involve destroying the thread. I'm trying to consolidate votes because I think that is the better way. People can't seem to vote together right now (look at the vote count) and the thread-talk is not progressing in a fruitful direction. This kinda sucks to me because actually I think we have a pretty great lynch in ruxxar. I wouldn't mind killing Koshi either especially because it would reduce even more of the thread noise but I doubt I'll get much support for that at this point. | ||
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On May 20 2019 23:42 disformation wrote: u have... like a case or something? most solid mention on wbg in your filter is like: Come vote ruxxar with me. We can either ignore Koshi or kill him and I think the latter is not happening today. Better to ignore him as he's not in a very explainy mood this game. | ||
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On May 20 2019 23:44 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not flamebaiting Jock if anything he's flamebaiting me. He's saying patently untrue things about my filter in a way that I can only assume is malicious given the loads of evidence I provided to the contrary. I have to try and decide if I think he's mafia for it now, which was annoying because I thought he was town before. no, you don't, because I'm not jumping to lynch Jock today and you figuring out Jock's alignment on d1 is not the most important thing you could be doing at this very moment. This is why, even though I do townread you, it's not as strong as I did last game d2, because you're a smart player and a good town player, and in this situation should realize that 1.) a Jock lynch is not happening on d1 when we have much better lynches, 2.) your own judgment is being clouded by him trying to figure out the game in a way that doesn't jive with you, and 3.) the thing we need to do most urgently is bring the thread back to order. | ||
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On May 20 2019 23:52 VisceraEyes wrote: Again with this no true scotsman bullshit - just because I'm not agreeing with your consolidation targets doesn't make me less town. Also my judgement isn't clouded, rayn has a case on him I don't wholly DISAGREE with, and him coming in here saying untrue things about me makes his mafia equity SKYROCKET for me. And with rayn on Jock he's just as viable as MY LEADING IGROK wagon at the very least. So no, I'm not buying this "You're only town if you do what I tell you" bullshit. you should step back and reread my post again, because you're jumping to conclusions that are not making sense. Also lol @ leading wagon on iGrok, I literally just quoted the vote count. Regardless of that being technically correct I don't think you actually seriously believe that when four players are tied at two votes apiece. Also, him saying supposedly untrue things about you isn't a good enough reason to discard the vast amount of things Jock has done that make him look town. I know you know that, you just sound tilted for some weird reason. | ||
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On May 20 2019 23:54 Jockmcplop wrote: What's conversion done to make you think he's town? his tone, and that he's one of the very few people in this game who has kept their eye on the prize and forced the conversation back to the lynch target of choice. | ||
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On May 21 2019 00:00 Conversion wrote: I'm going to make one comment to you, and then ignore you for the rest of the day. reasons why are below: 1) you are stumbling trying to make points on different people, and you are misconstruing a lot of people's stances. 2) I have 0 idea why you think me pushing of disformation is more scummy than me when he still has not posted anything on what he thinks the relative state of the game is and again anyway Calix & Jock you should consolidate because we're not lynching Conversion today. Also Jock just FYI that I read you as town and I think your intentions seem good but if you continue doing what you've been doing I think you're eventually going to get lynched because you post a lot without thinking through the consequences. For instance, what is the purpose of attacking VE if you're trying to convince people that Conversion is scum? It dilutes the point of your message and makes people less likely to listen to you, especially if your points are off the mark. I know this cause I suffer from it a lot myself :p with that said you should vote ruxxar because he's the best lynch | ||
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On May 21 2019 00:05 disformation wrote: what was your read on jock again? i think he was in your town circle? cause he is doing the exact opposite of that imo. he's town. If you think scum Jock would randomly start attacking VE and bring all sorts of attention to himself in the process, at a time where the thread has already gone to shit and all he'd have to do is sit back, then I don't know what to tell you. In this situation what I expect a lot of scum to do is to put up token resistance if suspected and then disappear. That's exactly what ruxxar did. | ||
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On May 21 2019 00:09 Jockmcplop wrote: Yeah that's a fair point to be honest. I'm trying to contribute as much as I can to the thread but I can see why it comes off as unfocused. Its day 1 though, so I'm kinda flailing around a bit trying to get the lay of the land. Who do you think I should consolidate on to? I could go for a ruxxar lynch or even disinfo at a push, but I'd rather lynch conversion given the choice. What makes you think 'we're not lynching conversion today'? we're not lynching conversion because 1. his responses of frustration have seemed fairly genuine, 2. despite being attacked he continues to push his lynch of choice in a way that is consistent with him being town, and 3. he has made observations that I think scum would not bother making, such as this one: On May 20 2019 08:34 Conversion wrote: koshi literally has no posts and lazily plays all the time why is he on the list This of course doesn't eliminate the possibility he's scum, just that I think it makes it less likely than several other players. Day 1 tends to be a crapshoot so I think having high confidence is key. If a player has several points in favour of them being town, I think they make a bad day 1 lynch. Similarly, by those same metrics ruxxar is the best lynch, because there are no town points in his favour; e.g. there is no indication that he is trying to figure out the game nor actually get his target lynched, and there are good reasons already mentioned to consider him scum. | ||
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On May 21 2019 00:20 ruXxar wrote: ya know, i gotta give you credit for tunneling hard bugs, at least youre trying. im home now so i can answer any questions you have. On May 20 2019 16:01 wherebugsgo wrote: Then please go ahead and point out such a post in a past scum game of yours. It shouldn't be terribly hard for you to do that if you're telling the truth. Feel free to explain at this point who you'd kill and why. I have my doubts you'll make much sense, though. | ||
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On May 21 2019 00:21 disformation wrote: fuck flood control... @ conv: i think also wanted to know if you think jock is pants on head town or scum from your pov. btw do you intend on providing any opinions or only asking questions this game? What player would you kill right now and why? | ||
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He also pulled a second disappearing act as people are fighting over Calix again. Why is this such a hard lynch? | ||
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On May 21 2019 01:53 Holyflare wrote: I'll read ruxxar. His posts strike me as the most gap filler at the moment. You need to follow up on this now or I’m booting you from my town circle You say you find it weird that I “defended” iGrok when it’s more like I provided the only valid perspective that isn’t completely coloured by “he used a bad reason for the only thug he’s done so he’s scum”. I find it weird that even now he’s the only person you’re willing to kill. ruxxar is clearly actively lurking, he basically admitted it twice. That’s more than we can say for iGrok who just straight up disappeared. | ||
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On May 21 2019 08:03 disformation wrote: i mean its not slam dunk (unfortunaley nothing is so far), but a) tone b) like where does mafia come in like "yeah was reading filter for an hour, got these small things, but basically not much, cu". imo the "sry got nothing" is more likely town, as scum would frantically try to have "something" What?? a) His tone is meek. He literally called himself a mouse b) what you mentioned here is more mafia indicative than town!! It’s mafia who aren’t willing to commit to reads, not townies. How could someone possibly read 20+ pages of this game and come out with a town read on Koshi and no scum reads? It’s fairly clear he thought he should have one as well, because he offers conversion up as a potential lynch. I’d love to see what Conversion thinks about that, honestly. As for the Koshi and me business, Koshi is probably just scum this game because he’s been slinging stuff for a while and trying to just get it to stick. If you look at Koshi’s past games where he plays town he actually tries to figure out stuff despite the high volume of posting one liners. There is no real progression here, it just seems like he’s trying to find things that would throw us off and making it much harder to read the game. I am actually shocked at how many town reads he is getting for this play, especially because they’re completely unexplained as well. | ||
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On May 21 2019 08:09 disformation wrote: dont think ive played with him before? maybe he has history with art? but ruxxar noticed the same: hm? maybe im stupid and/or blind, but could you quote that? See his original post plus On May 21 2019 01:57 ruXxar wrote: its like a circle jerk of the big dawgs preying on the weak. now that they finally calmed down the mice stick their heads out. He also keeps commenting on activity and how activity makes it hard to find scum. This seems like a mafia mindset, like it’s too hard for him to 1 fake a read and 2 blend in as a lurker cause all the townies are tryharding: On May 21 2019 02:33 ruXxar wrote: havent played a mafia game where its been this hard to come up with solid reads ngl. everyone being active smart or active gorilla, hard to tell apart day 1. Clearly the active label doesn’t apply to him though | ||
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On May 21 2019 08:15 Calix wrote: Okay I admit I haven't read all of BC's posts. But I felt compelled to point out how bad the bolded part is. Look at that and tell me that ISN'T the sort of post a mafia makes when trying to avoid voting for a mafia buddy. It has everything. The structure. The inability to concisely say "he's scummy but let's wait and see". The avenues left open. The admission that someone made a point against iGrok. The excuses made to sidestep the point. The 'yeah he's mafia but give him a chance' line that gives BC the option to either vote for iGrok if his posts continued to suck or town-read iGrok if his posts became good. I didn't even scum-read either BC or iGrok before this but holy shit, this paragraph is disgusting. If you wanna make bad association reads feel free to throw me on the pile because I made literally the same comment on iGrok. This is not the avenue to attack BC for. Also lynching BC today is not very high value. Yeah, he could be scum, but we’d be ignoring a lot of good evidence and several players much more likely to flip scum than BC. In fact, if you actually think this, rather than throwing shade on BC just vote iGrok and kill him instead, because we’ll get rid of a useless player and we’ll be able to confirm or deny the association afterward. | ||
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On November 20 2017 07:53 ruXxar wrote: Your read was bad and your defense of it was bullshit. Your first reaction to getting pressured was trying to pull up excuses and try to keep your image from being tarnished. Playing dumb is not going to win any townie points in my book. That post is from Mafia Mafia Mafia Also, he calls people townies all the time when he is mafia, so as I suspected this is not alignment indicative and certainly not any reason to think he has real reads. In context it makes his reread look much worse because a single town read on Koshi is literally the only thing he came back with. | ||
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I implore you to look at the vote count and how much of a pain it is to get people to consolidate on ruxxar. If he were a bad townie I’d guarantee this same lynch would be far easier cause we’d probably already have lots of people dogpiling him instead of using bad reasons to defend him or defend him for almost no reason whatsoever (e.g. Koshi, rayn) | ||
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On May 21 2019 08:23 Calix wrote: I'm not saying we should lynch BC today. If I did, I would have changed my vote. I just found that post scummy and flagged it up. But I am now more amenable to VE's idea so I may change my vote to iGrok on non-policy grounds. However I need to mull things over first. Right now I have too many scum reads. If we’re not going to lynch certain people what is the point of polluting the discussion now when we cannot seem to agree on who we want to kill today?? I implore you to look at the vote count and how much of a pain it is to get people to consolidate on ruxxar. If he were a bad townie I’d guarantee this same lynch would be far easier cause we’d probably already have lots of people dogpiling him instead of using bad reasons to defend him or defend him for almost no reason whatsoever (e.g. Koshi, rayn) | ||
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On May 21 2019 08:36 Calix wrote: I don't tend to use meta reads on people I've never played with before. Because if I try doing so, I'll end up succumbing to confirmation bias. If I think he's town and do a meta dive, I'm probably going to just find stuff that confirms that belief. And vice versa. Much as I'd love to have a brilliant, logical reason to doubt ruxxar is mafia, I don't. It was just when I read some of his posts, I 'felt' like lynching him would result in a mislynch and I can't even explain why. It's completely irrational >< No one is asking you to meta read anyone. I’m just pointing out that if you have a read based on tone (and you probably do if you can’t come up with a real reason) it is not alignment indicative. “Meta reading” IMO is not really a thing beyond just confirming whether some behaviour is unique to a certain alignment or not. I’ve tried to make those associations before and I’ve also tried to fake those types of “meta reads” and “meta cases” to get people to just vote with me because I’m confident, but it’s just another piece of evidence in the pile. I’ve been asking for who knows how long for someone to provide some good reasons to consider ruxxar town, and they just don’t come. For how much he is being defended you would think at least one person would have a good reason. He doesn’t have any scum reads, he is clearly self-aware of not being active while he believes a lot of town is, and he picks and chooses what to respond to despite saying he’s around and willing to answer all questions. He backed off real quick when I challenged him on the armchair mafioso thing, for example, and when I brought it up again he ignored it again. I get an impression of fear from him more than anything else, as if he spent a lot of time outside the thread trying to figure out how to handle my pressure. | ||
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Why is it that people are obsessed with there needing to be a “good case” in order to kill someone? What the hell do people even want? If you don’t write a 5 paragraph essay on someone you don’t have a good case? Here, I’ll regurgitate my case on ruxxar and then I’m going to leave it to the rest of you to figure out what to do because I’m actually tired of pushing this solo. I might be back later but since this is a colossal waste of my time I’ll probably just do work instead. 1. ruxxar is very aware of thread activity and is an active lurker himself. This is despite making some attempts at appearing not like an active lurker (the post about being around to answer questions, but then not really answering any questions of substance-the one response he had to me was pure nothing; an unwarranted town read of Koshi plus a “maybe I’ll kill conversion/see how that goes”) 2. ruxxar is not trying to figure out the game and the most common stated reason he is defended is because he made a supposedly “good” opening post. Rayn’s defense in particular has aged really poorly: (“why would you kill a townie that wants to find scum?” on #367 Someone needs to explain how ruxxar has contributed at all to the finding of scum because that’s either a lie or possibly the worst single take in this game so far. 3. ruxxar’s only real commitments have been to town reads. Specifically, town reading Koshi might be the only thing that he has recently committed to, and he didn’t provide any reasons for that. | ||
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On May 21 2019 08:25 Calix wrote: Think the term you want is 'image conscious' I didn't get the impression he scum-read Jock. The way he worded it made it sound like he found Jock more annoying than scummy, lol. We’d know the answer to this question about how he reads Jock if ruxxar actually did what he said he would and answer questions. Rather than answer the question you posed he completely ignored it and responded in a confusing manner, then harped on the confusion making it less likely you’d follow up. Predictably he disappeared before he was forced to commit to anything else. Credit where credit is due, he’s remarkably slippery. | ||
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On May 20 2019 09:45 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm gonna pass on that one. A) You've given literally no reasoning that I can see for your vote aside from "for that one post alone" which, filtering you in isolation, I can't even see which it is. So... B) I filtered ruxxar and found that his posting seems internally consistent, and relatively comprehensive as far as "what you should know about me" posts go. It feels this side of townie to me. I'm not going to rank lurkers on kill priority, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard what are you even fucking doing? VE I’m not letting you pass on this take because it, like ratn’s, has aged really poorly You need to cite some real reasons for why you think ruxxar is town. I find it quite uncharacteristic of you to more or less ignore me and slip away on my main read with such little substance; why wouldn’t you want to have a conversation with me if you want to find scum together? | ||
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On May 21 2019 10:53 Conversion wrote: ruxxar: + Show Spoiler + On May 20 2019 04:47 ruXxar wrote: sup guys, long time no see. skimmed through the thread, dont remember all the specifics. i dont wanna lynch the active people, cause they make the game fun. - jockmcplop is top town, he speaks from his heart. - hf looks townie, i love when he gets riled up. - VE seems aight, could be deviously smart mafia. - rayn attacking jockmcplop is dumb, and his fumbling to explain his first post was meh, dont make him mafia tho. - bugs looks aigh tish. - i dont like calix. seem stiff and too sure of himself. looks like hes posting with perferct information. already certain of his opinons, and just tries to find the best angle to defend them. ##Vote calix ok starts off pretty much sprinting out of the gate, calling calix scum let’s see where the leads to On May 20 2019 06:54 ruXxar wrote: @rayn did your opinion on calix change or what? asks rayn if his opinion changes, but like 30 posts ago rayn was ranting about how Calix was mafia? not sure what the point of this jab was TBH.. doesn’t look like he follows it up either On May 20 2019 15:50 ruXxar wrote: You dont like my entry post but seem just entirely fine with calix list post. Of course you do when he calls you town lmao kinda omgusy defense towards bugs here On May 20 2019 16:42 ruXxar wrote: So is calix scummy or not? Make up your mind. You say im scummy for reading calix as scum, but now youre calling calix scum also. #galaxybrain bugs makes a pretty big post, ruxxar kind of just shitposts back at him? which is funny because he said we’s not trying to shit up the thread On May 21 2019 01:39 ruXxar wrote: so i spent about an hour reading through filters to refresh and condense my thoughts. tbh my opnions didnt change much. new development being koshis entry and seeming fairly townish. im starting to dislike jock a lot, his thread presence is annoying and erratic, i wish he would calm down and focus. my scum read on calix remains, though i liked her post on conversion. speaking of: im sensing some fake agression from conversion. might be tryharding to imitate town meta. i could be swayed to vote conversion today. this part is hilarious. bugs wanted ruxxar to talk to him (bugs) about me (conversion), but ruxxar just shits on him, comes back like 5 hours later or whatever and suddenly I’m a scum lean. wtf? On May 21 2019 06:02 ruXxar wrote: When you have these two posts in the thread then making the following post on calix is not exactly a bold original idea. It could be construed as trying to get a second wagon started without risking yourself. Do notice that both me and rayn voted for calix. But bloody despite calling her post «screaming fucking mafia» did not join voting. Perhaps waiting to see if thread sentiment would build further onto calix first. if I read this out of context it looks like a townie trying. I think I’m starting to see a little bit of people’s issues with ruxxar— it almost feels like he has a disconnect with his ideas and his actions. he doesn’t seem to engage with the thread in any way, throws out a bunch of reads, and without that engagement I can see why he looks scummy. hmm give me a good night’s rest to sleep and recharge and I’ll reread my thing and some other cases on him (if you could be so kind to point it out some cases, I don’t have to waste extra time digging through the thread) I’m on mobile and can’t easily point stuff out but just read my last few posts (should be in the last page in my filter) and BC’s last post as well. The tl;dr is ruxxar is image/activity conscious, never commits to any reads, says he’ll be around but dodged question after question (just look at that response to me that you quoted as a shitpost; I ask him like four questions and to comment on disformation and he just ignores it entirely) and while he seems to bristle a bit this is not actually outside the range of his scum game as I pointed out on the last page with an example from Mafia Mafia Mafia where he was calling bs on people and throwing around townreads like he is here. | ||
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I’m sure he can explain it himself though, at least I’m more confident disfo will actually respond in kind and it make coherent sense than ruxxar would. On May 21 2019 00:33 disformation wrote: opinions are totally overrated i acutally like your posts on ruxxar (as i mentioned like a few minutes ago), but he just got here so imma wait and see what he does. otherwise sheeping ve and hf on igrok seems decent (as i mentioned a few minutes ago). for conv i want see see what/if he follows up on my meta (as i mentioned ...) for bc i have a town lead (as i posted) but am confused about the jock stuff so i want him to come back and explain (as i posted). ve top town (as i posted) On May 21 2019 00:34 disformation wrote: also posted a read on jock so not sure where the "0 opinions" stuff is coming from. Here’s his double response to me saying I think he has no opinions. This alone on attitude and responsiveness indicated that he is trying to figure out the game and has some sort of perspective but that, as a typical townie, he is not self aware that these opinions are not obvious to outside observers | ||
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You need to cite these because none of those are true when was he annoyed with lurkers?? He said most of the game is active and that makes it hard to find scum which is almost the exact opposite Fluid reads that change as people post?? Literally the only progression he had was Koshi town after entrance and some talk about how he thinks jock needs to calm down (but no mention of whether that’s scummy) Annoyance at being ignored???? I’m honestly utterly confused how you could think these in the first place but still think them now. Go ahead and point out each of ruxxar’s posts that show these things, VE, cause I think you’re full of it | ||
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On May 21 2019 11:07 VisceraEyes wrote: Bugs you're doing a lot of narrative building to justify your reads. Like, I came to the exact opposite read of disfo's filter, it looks like he's FAR more guilty of the things you're accusing ruxxar of and you're making up some shit to justify calling him town and rux mafia. Don’t dodge my questions VE. Show me where ruxxar complained about lurkers | ||
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On May 21 2019 11:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Subtract the lurker thing and my read doesn't change much, he feels town to me based on my read of it. Maybe I'm just bad or whatever, that's cool. I tend to think not but it's whatever. If you're town, I believe you that this is a potentially valid take. Like I said though, I'm just not seeing how you came to that conclusion and you still haven't given concrete reasons for these two: Fluid reads that change as people post?? Literally the only progression he had was Koshi town after entrance and some talk about how he thinks jock needs to calm down (but no mention of whether that’s scummy) Annoyance at being ignored???? Please point out both of those as well because I just don't see how anyone could reasonably come to those two observations after reading ruxxar's posts. I realize I'm fairly tunneled so I'm basically looking for reasons not to be. On May 21 2019 11:12 VisceraEyes wrote: I just find it strange that we have the exact opposite reads of ruxxar and disformation...my reasons are based on shit that's here in the thread and your shit is based on "OH HE'S CAPABLE OF THIS IF YOU SQUINT SEE HERE!!!" Fuck outta here. This one I also don't get because as far as I remember you haven't said anything on disfo at all until just now, besides that one post you made where you were asking why Conversion thinks he's scum and then saying you'd look into it. What were you waiting for? Have you not seen me asking people to provide opinions on ruxxar & disformation so that we can consolidate on them?? If you'd already come to a conclusion somewhere between that post you made when you said you'd read into disfo and now, why did you wait until I responded to a direct question to put your scumread in the thread? I can understand withholding a town read but I don't get why you'd withhold a scum read, especially when it's one of the only players who are actively being pushed. Even with all that said, I myself am not so sure on disformation because I think there are a lot of ways to interpret his posts. If you're confused on why I lean town let's talk it out rather than you just attacking me because we supposedly reached polar opposite conclusions. | ||
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On May 21 2019 11:17 VisceraEyes wrote: jesus now Bugs is typing up a big huge post going OMGZORZ VE SCUM CAUSE HE MISREAD THIS WORD THAT TIME I'm going to bed. You guys figure this shit out and I'll sheep whoever sounds the smartest. <333 hold on you ninja voted Calix? what in the hell is even going on | ||
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On May 21 2019 11:30 ruXxar wrote: Bugs sounding like a broken record and repeating yourself ad nauseam doesnt make the genie pop out of bottle and make your wish of me being mafia come true. It does however make me think youre just a dumb town tunneling. Unless youre scum buddy with calix trying to deflect his lynch(which i find unlikely after your call out post), youre just stuck in the typical town ego trap of mafia read confirmation bias. Your ego wont allow you to back down from this lynch now that youve put so much into it. I see no point why you as mafia would keep pushing me at this point. Thats fine, i get it, ive been there. Ill just ignore you from now on as youre very clearly too deep in the hole to think rationally any longer. I do want to bring attention to the huge momentum swing we’ve had in activity from certain players. The beginning of the game was a big shitshow dominated by the presence of rayn and hf. Both of which have gone either completely silent(rayn) or currently do not give a shit(hf) Rayn really outed himself in a dumb way that i dont think mafia would do. He took a what i would consider big gamble by goung full retard. He was on the chopping block for a while but made it out alive. Hes very likely town at this point. Hf on the other hand, is currently playing a masterful scum game. Hes controlling his thread presence well, but has basically taken no hard scum stances on anyone. Hes wobbling and flaky in his reads and he refuses to take a stance on the main wagons by either defending or pushing them (calix and me). Lately he seems very content with where the thread is heading and is very indifferent to the outcome of this lynch, despite claiming that i was not scum earlier and refusing to make up a fresh opinion. I see no real motivation behind his actions besides his content in letting this lynch play out. HF reeks of scum and is almost certain to flip mafia at this point, summing up the development of his thread interaction, lack of real motivation and indifference to the current situation. Tldr: Bugs is dumbo town. Rayn is town. HF is mafia. ##vote holyflare I respect that this is a pretty bold move, and you're probably going to get a lot of town reads for this post. This post is about to seed a lot of problems and basically derails whatever momentum your case was getting. Bravo. I don't get why in a million years you would ever do this as a townie though. Like literally no one is going to lynch HF with you today, and everything you've mentioned here requires some serious twisted logic to ignore a lot of reasonable evidence that HF is town, elements of which YOU YOURSELF POINTED OUT EARLIER IN THE GAME. Not only did you throw away your vote, you basically ensured no one is going to listen to you at all for the rest of the game. like what happened to Calix vs Conversion? That's just dropped off a cliff now? What happened to this: On May 20 2019 09:38 ruXxar wrote: just want to put in my filter that this is a super townie post by hf. and this: On May 20 2019 04:47 ruXxar wrote: - hf looks townie, i love when he gets riled up. ??? it seems like you're "progressing your reads" just because some people complained that you weren't doing that and now you're just flailing | ||
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At the moment I think they’re both town though. | ||
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On May 21 2019 15:05 iGrok wrote: Also, "NAI" is a new acronym to me, what does that mean? NAI = not alignment indicative Where’s your vote landing today? | ||
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On May 21 2019 15:14 iGrok wrote: None until I finish reading the thread. VE caught something that no one else did (publicly). I assume you mean on rayn being afk? Or is this something else? I actually wanted to see if anyone would note that rayn provided his activity hours in-thread and then never showed up during those exact hours for almost a day. However rayn is on my “ignore till later” list with Koshi | ||
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On May 21 2019 15:10 Jockmcplop wrote: Hmm... OK Well I can see that you think he is town. Nothing you've posted would convince me that he's town though. I've just looked at those three posts and they all seem NAI to me. I could well imagine mafia posting any of those. Do you think hf is playing differently to usual? Where is his pushing for a lynch? Why i he going for afkers when he never does that. I don’t think HF is playing particularly out of band here. Right now I’m still rather confused at some events in the game. Based on HF’s style of adding up townreads and lynching through the rest, and what he’s posted so far on feeling unsure about said townreads, I imagine he just hasn’t been able to get enough of a grip on the game and resorted to voting iGrok. Now that iGrok is back and EU is waking up I fully expect HF to do some reevaluations and if he doesn’t, then I’ll become concerned. I’m also waiting for him to react to certain things I’ve noted and I want to see if his opinions move in a way that I’d expect. So far so good though; my opinion on HF is that he’s a fairly logical player even if sometimes he harps on weird stuff or goes pants-on-head like he did with me last game with his inordinately stupid fake claim red check. Btw why I pointed out those 3 posts is because I think mafia tend to not try to call as much attention to themselves in non-chalant, repeated ways. It’s especially the case in his responses to Calix, because he essentially says “hey look I can make you look bad too” without OMGUSing, and I think most scum in that situation would not be bold enough to counter like that. | ||
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On May 21 2019 15:34 Jockmcplop wrote: OK thanks for explaining... I'll bear that in mind as he posts more. IMO from what he has posted so far that isn't nearly enough to make me townread him or downgrade my scumread on him. I just want him to scumhunt in a way that doesn't seem fake. His sudden about turn from "I only want to talk about disfo" to agreeing with thread sentiment on ruxxar is an example of this. Let's see what happens today. With hf, I'm very much in the 'wait and see' camp with you on that one. He might come here and do his usual hf thing, and you explanation for why he is acting the way he is actually makes sense in context with his previous games. I think I'm getting a little bit thrown with the 72 hour days. The rhythm of the game is different - I think this might be why everything is a little bit wild at the moment... No-one's really motivated o properly push a lynch because there's so much time left. I’m with you on the time thing and in the next cycle if I’m alive I might backload my activity so that I can observe more in the first 24-48 hours. I think I probably pushed ruxxar a bit harder than necessary and traction will be even more difficult in the next 24 hours. disfo on the other hand I can see picking up traction easily and potentially dying here because even if he hasn’t taken votes seemingly a good 2/3 of the game has said they want to kill him. | ||
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Yeah, true. Why don’t we kill disfo then? I’m the only one it seems who thinks he might be town and I’m not even sure of that. I’m not going to get ruxxar killed at this point, I’m too lazy to try hard and tunnel further especially when I’ll just exhaust myself arguing about it. ##vote disformation | ||
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I might be bad but I literally don’t get that one. Up until what iGrok just posted there was very little indication anyone would vote ruxxar besides BC | ||
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You could read into HF’s filter and come to literally whatever conclusion you want about him if you’re primed beforehand with “HF is master scum and he’s manipulating us all” Jock in particular would probably be the player most susceptible to something like that because he has very little experience finding scum | ||
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I highly doubt BC is scum here and we’re not killing him d1 anyway | ||
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On May 21 2019 15:58 Koshi wrote: Yes. My problem is not idebtifying. I have a problem with how he saw how scummy the Calix post was but then let that die and used thread sentiment to push Ruxxar over Calix. I mean we can just ask him why he did that, I think it’s fairly obvious though. Ruxxar voted Calix before he could really get in much of a word on Calix. If someone comes in and posts the exact same post as your top scum read, but then votes your top scum read, I’d think you’d also go wtf one of these two have to be scum and perhaps both are. I imagine BC was fine voting ruxxar over calix because 1. They did the same thing and ruxxar votes calix, which makes ruxxar look worse because of the self-contradiction and 2. I agreed on ruxxar but not on calix and i’m pretty sure BC and I are mutually townreading each other However he has only one vote and I’m sure if we asked him BC would probably be fine with killing Calix atm too. Also this: On May 21 2019 09:49 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Yeah. Bugs you can stay in my town circle. Anyone wondering why anyone (mainly bugs and myself) Are on ruxxar. 1) his first post called out someone for being mafia. This post however was near identical to the person he called mafia. 2) when pushed on said read he highlighted one aspect that made him think calix was red. Which was a read on bugs. 3) subsequently from then he has said town reads, been ok to just swap to other likely wagons (with near no stated reason) and thrown shade without solid commitment to anything. 4) active lurking. All these things are mafia traits. As such I believe he has a higher likelihood to flip scum. People can keep looking at other people. I mean I want people to keep hunting for the other scum. However the lack of anyone wanting to even comment on ruxxar while trying to bring igrok/calix/anyone else forward is odd. See point #1 | ||
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Hell yes convince these jubjubs to kill ruxxar please, I haven’t been able to do it myself | ||
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On May 21 2019 16:07 Koshi wrote: Calix felt way worse. Wayyyyy worse. fuck off, are you scum with ruxxar? Like this is just not based on anything at all, they made almost identical posts and then ruxxar voted Calix. Therefore BC is scum because he called them both scummy?? Gtfo this is a garbage take if real | ||
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I think the disformation push is the mafia-pushed wagon here (not to say conv is scum, just that I think disformation has too many people suspicious of him for it to be entirely town-influenced) VE is a coinflip. Could go either way there. Same on Koshi but I lean more town lately. Best bet is we kill ruxxar and get some clarity | ||
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On May 21 2019 16:25 Holyflare wrote: Actually read his filter and it's not that bad. He can go fringe town. Can't remember what his mafia range is but I wouldn't say what he's posted would be out of it. Quite bc centric. my current mafia list, 25% is baseline: ruxxar - 80% VE - 50-75% rayn - 50% Koshi - 25% iGrok I still have at baseline because he still hasn't done much, but it's 3:30 EST so we'll have time tomorrow hopefully. First impression so far so good, especially because he wants to kill ruxxar & disfo and those aren't super whacky opinions to have Koshi I had scummier than baseline until last page where we talked about BC. However that was purely based on malleability of his opinion. Rayn I have scummy because he used Koshi as a proxy to throw shade on disfo. VE I want you to get back to me on ruxxar best lynch everyone else in the game I've found enough reasons to be town that I don't want to lynch them today. | ||
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On May 21 2019 16:31 iGrok wrote: Man, I'm out of practice. I really want to feel like calix is mafia, but I can tell if its because she is making bad aggro on me and I'm overreacting. It doesn't help that I have no idea how good/bad/experienced calix is. My initial key moments for her were: Calix HF / Jock good, rayn bad, wbg probably good -Honestly really basic post. easy to make if less experienced scum stop calling me scum for sheeping, I'm gonna keep sheeping because reasons Its a fucking VE / rayn conspiracy Total reversal, VE/dis good, conv/rux bad BC is scummy because he's... drawing attention away from me... by bringing me up when other lurkers are being focused more? Only positive thing I know about calix right now is that I like her playstyle. Periodic summaries - its what I typically tried to do as well. But like I said, I'm self-aware enough to realize that I may just be reacting incorrectly. Thoughts? Calix is a hard read for me as well but I lean toward town because I felt a genuine sense of trying to figure out the game. For instance, I think it's a rare scum that would write this post: On May 21 2019 08:44 Calix wrote: I personally don't see a problem with discussing people even if they're not likely to die today. But clearly this is something you dislike. You say it's scummy how difficult it is to get votes on ruxxar and that people defend him. I find it scummy that Conversion is largely ignored. When I am less tired, I'll look into ruxxar again but my vision's going double, lol. It's even weirder that of the main 'trains', only one person [ruxxar] has any case against him. Nobody has a good reason to kill me ['tone' or 'meta' or 'sheeping' aren't reasons]. Meanwhile my main reason for scum-reading Conversion is because I think he's pretending to tunnel disformation to avoid commenting on the rest of the game. Which is not really a case either. TL;DR: These trains are really shoddy for almost 48 hours of work. I think this is a sentiment that townies who are trying to figure out the game should share at this time and it's also a big reason why I read one certain player as scum, because he does not seem to share this same urgency/concern. | ||
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On May 21 2019 16:37 iGrok wrote: @bugs I have Koshi as my towniest read. Yeah HF also reads Koshi as town and I'll freely admit I don't really know how to read Koshi very well. I think he's just sort of a leftover for me in case one of ruxxar/VE/rayn is not actually scum here. I could alternatively be wrong on Calix but I highly doubt that, especially because ruxxar pushed Calix. The only other potential question marks are disfo, conversion, you, and Artanis, and for each of you I have good reasons to think you're town. | ||
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On May 21 2019 16:50 Jockmcplop wrote: WBG can you explain what you mean when you say that rayn is using koshi as a proxy to attack disfo? I don't get how. as Koshi said above: On May 21 2019 11:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: Koshi does disformation look townie? On May 21 2019 15:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay if you say so then hes probably mafia. On May 21 2019 16:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Koshi are you around in like 5 hrs? one explanation is that town-rayn is buddying koshi because neither HF nor I were talking to him in a way that he wanted but I find that less likely because he was completely absent during the time period that he says he's normally active. Once the pressure stopped on him rayn stopped participating, and that jives with what I'd expect from scum rayn because when I played with him on the same team he seemed like he couldn't handle the stress of being scum | ||
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On May 20 2019 21:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Quite unlikely, but I am going to be so amused if the scumteam is something like VE/WBG/Rayn. HF: On May 21 2019 16:49 Holyflare wrote: Because I already had a reason to scum read you and posting the summaries hasn't changed that? If you do good with the work then there's always room to change? Dunno what to tell you buddy. I don't think iGrok is the lynch today. I'm not seeing how he's scum here. I'd rather you help me lynch ruxxar and help me understand what alignment koshi is here. | ||
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Thanks for confirming me as town | ||
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On May 21 2019 17:25 Jockmcplop wrote: Finding out koshi's alignment is a priority for me too in the next 12 hours. He seems to have strong opinions that don't follow with thread sentiment so if we can figure this one out some other things might fall into place. How are we gonna go about it? The most foolproof way would be just to kill him | ||
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Literally none of them have contributed anything useful all game and sadly there is a high chance at least one of them is town. We get the short end of the stick in determining their alignments later. On VE, if it’s unclear why he’s in my scumpile: VE is eventually going to come back and if he’s reasonable it’ll be obvious fairly quickly. However he’s already gotten so many things uncharacteristically wrong and dodged so many questions that it’s better to leave him alone and see if he does something constructive with the space rather than bait him into arguments where he’ll undoubtably bloat the thread as either alignment | ||
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On May 21 2019 17:37 Holyflare wrote: Personally, I think ruxxar was perfectly correct to call me mafia. I had a high burst of activity and then have completely waffled and disappeared as people get more active. What I don't like is that it was opportunistic. He'd town read me before afaik, arbitrarily decided that between rayn and I that I somehow became mafia and then wrote the narrative on me. He dropped all his other reads for that too. Essentially I'm the lynch bait currently and he took it. Who else is he supposed to push to look good other than a high profile sitting duck that people can't disagree with his read on? Why are you not responding to me I find this analysis weird though, why on earth do you think you’re the lynch bait here? If anything it’s Calix or disformation. I agree that it’s a scum vote but I think it’s more a vote in line with “if I vote HF here no one will believe I’d have the balls to do that as scum” because you weren’t on any radars and weren’t likely to be lynched given the vote spread He has consistently just disappeared after every short burst of activity and his “progressions” are just odd. As you pointed out he just completely dropped the Calix/conversion business; what happened to one of them being scum? He also had a set up into calling BC scum but dropped that too. No idea why he mentions rayn in his post on you either, just seems like a forced mention especially because rayn was nearly completely absent for 24 hours. | ||
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On May 21 2019 17:38 Jockmcplop wrote: But you just asked hf to help you figure out koshi's alignment! Yeah I realize it’s a waste of time atm. Let’s just kill ruxxar and worry about Koshi later | ||
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On May 21 2019 17:47 ruXxar wrote: What id this logic. Ruxx: hf is acting scummy Hf: youre right, but your scummy for calling me scum. Our active lurker is back to nitpick something! | ||
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On May 21 2019 17:50 Holyflare wrote: Sorry what was I supposed to respond to? I am the perfect lynch bait. I could make a case on myself for being mafia. High activity poking on rayn to blow up into low activity keeping options open when everyone becomes active? I'm the mafia dream to push. Nobody can really argue with that. Push back on calix/conversion etc is all because they have blurred lines, nothing to sway one way or the other. Are you going to help kill ruxxar?? I honestly don’t think iGrok is scum here. Scum basically has to be in: Ruxxar VE rayn Koshi Almost everyone else has a few or loads of town points in favour | ||
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On May 21 2019 17:54 Koshi wrote: Amazing how you can filter townies. If those 4 are town. I am going to make you hate me in future games. You don’t know if you are town yourself? | ||
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calix vote ruxxar. Your point on the wagons does not apply to ruxxar, and it’s wrong in some key ways, notably that rayn has been trying to proxy push disformation (through Koshi) for a while now Also scum would care about keeping the votes spread, which is exactly why ruxxar’s vote is a scum vote and why VE not helping me consolidate on disfo/ruxxar earlier is a huge red flag | ||
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On May 21 2019 17:59 Holyflare wrote: I will interact and evaluate as best I can. Soon. I don't really agree with Koshi and dunno how you have him there after last game? Pretty different. Think this is a bit of a mediocre list. Koshi is a POE read and why I asked you to help me read him. I agree he’s fairly different than last game and it’s also why I want to just punt him. Ruxxar we can agree is scum. VE I’m more certain on than rayn actually. Maybe you agree with VE because he shared your push on iGrok, but he got so many things wrong this game and dodged several key questions I asked him. It’s uncharacteristic. His reads and behaviour also don’t make much sense given the context of this game so far. Rayn is just as equally making no sense, pushing disfo which is a bad lynch but not even doing it directly, rather pushing it trough Koshi, and to top it all off conveniently disappeared when the pressure abated only to come back when people started noticing he disappeared All three of those players have strange interactions with ruxxar and are the main cause of the resistance to the lynch. Just go back and reread them if you don’t believe me | ||
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You can just read rayn’s last couple filter pages and look for his questions to Koshi | ||
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If in context of the rest of the game rayn is not making any sense he’s not town here. Last game I thought his read on me was pretty stupid and he was constantly repeating the same questions at me when I had already answered him. He did a bit of that here re: my vote on him but while I agreed with his opinions overall d1 yesterday his opinions here are just nonsense | ||
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On May 21 2019 18:22 disformation wrote: man. conv could be scum after all. also not sure if i like koshi agreeing to that crap. prolly biased though. -.- vote ruxxar!! god damn in my spreadsheet I noted that we might need to let conversion kill you to ensure the tunnel ends and now it indeed seems to me that the two of you are just gonna build a corner for yourselves and sling poop at each other until the rest of us tire of it and kill one of you it's sad because I have good reasons to consider you both town too. Both me, HF, and BC all think ruxxar is scum. If any of us is not in your town reads, you have a problem bigger than conversion calling you scum. Vote with us. | ||
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On May 21 2019 01:14 Conversion wrote: interestingly enough I have played with disformation more than I thought two recent games I'm meta diving here: classic (disfo mafia)and vendee (disfo town, replaced in after N1) the thing with disfo here, from what I'm reading, is that he generally sounds the same (to which I think rayn alluded to when he was telling me disfo sounds the same either way) the thing is I'm more inclined to believe disfo is mafia here because it's been almost 48hrs and he hasn't done one productive thing all game let's take a look at Vendee: vendee + Show Spoiler + On February 08 2018 05:25 disformation wrote: also a random thought i had: if i remember correctly: the rs wagon was for a long time the only serious one around, so i want to look at ppl who hoped onto that easily/meekily so that they look like they were doing/pushing someone. On February 08 2018 05:43 disformation wrote: flagged for possible teammate interaction. aware you are both in thread and mderg isnt doing too hot? your waffles on mderg dont look too bad imo. i have more of an issue that you basically had no reads? like first 2 pages of your filter you only directly have a read on rsoultin then you add mderg and prpl to your scumpile. heavily implied strong tr on koshi though On February 08 2018 06:51 disformation wrote: ritoky afks his vote on mderg fairly early in the day. says we could default lynch him instead for shennies. dont think that is likely to come from scum. hf was hammer on scum. and even if both wagons are scum i think a scum!hf would have played this day differently. outside of that it is a bit hard to tell imo. kinda depends on whether rsoultin is really scum or not. I'm not going to go on a wall of quotes here, but what I'm seeing is lots of transparent thoughts in solving the game, without PRODDING. that's the big thing here, disfo this game has done nothing but majorly prodding. no real original thoughts tbh, just lots of questions won't share who he wants to lynch, won't comment on wagons, doesn't defend anyone, he tries to slink off into the background stuff like this in the current game On May 20 2019 23:57 disformation wrote: currently looking at ruxxar. doesnt seem like a bad vote target. other option would be to sheep ve and hf onto igrok. want to see bc to explain the stuff surrounding his jock quote, think that will heavily influence my opinion on him. fairly null on you tbh. translates to "ruxxar is meh, I'll vote him maybe, or I'll sheep to igro, but you are null. he just seems very opportunistic and not trying to solve the game he only really comes in when questioned/asked as well, I'm not seeing any proactivity in scum hunting in his posts now let's look at his mafia game classic + Show Spoiler + On March 20 2018 16:36 disformation wrote: not sure what to about mocsta. I like that he is like looking at ppl that are not much talked about (tocktock). but then both tocktock and ylk look like okayish to me, so I am not sure if he is just making stuff up to post. On March 21 2018 21:34 disformation wrote: @rs: did look at the host revenge game. slam looked very different to here. i also don't think he would care that much about ppl voting him that much normally. but as a question: does it look different from only his town games or both his town and scum games? dont recall any scum slam games I was, link me a good one? though if the theory works then slam should think you are town for voting him early. as scum tries to keep him alive for long. the thing is, he hasn't posted about that theory thing recently hasnt he? maybe he forgot? so the question would be: @slam: chupazi theory or: which one is it? but i am not gonna lie, between him being very different and him being apparently fairly upset by that vote, he makes me nervous. On March 21 2018 21:56 disformation wrote: rayn's overall filter is kinda meh. doesn't look horrible on a glance, but has not a lot of impact either. his reason to vote me checks out. also seems to be very busy. rayn has fooled me before though so i'll reserve the right to some paranoia. not sure if i would want to lynch him for that d1, but if his filter is still meh and he has had no impact on a later day, i would heavily recommend lynching him. On March 21 2018 22:08 disformation wrote: nah. don't have a problem with rs's filter. have no meta with/on her though. On March 21 2018 22:25 disformation wrote: yeah i think that was my prob with conv as well. he had like 2 reads. just to organize my thought: town(ish) (no order): tocktock vivi ksc rs mocsta way too many nulls/meh/bleh ppl. he does a better job blending in Classic than he is here, actually. tries to at least LOOK like he's putting in some effort, but looking at his game here, it just does exactly what he's doing here, just better he's blending in, throwing out some "reads" here and there, but falls flat in taking a strong stance in really anything I just feel like it's the same sort of weird tonal meta read I had with rsoul in Vendee and the meta diving for me encapsulates disformation very clearly here: demotivated, trying to stay hidden and posting for the sake of posting (lots of prodding, evades conclusive questions, not really sure what real objective he has for D1 still to this hour) I'd just like to reiterate here that I do not think Jock-Disfo can be a team from the way they are playing. I'll look into ruxxar next since he did kind of just go "u tried" and ran away btw this amount of effort is indicative of someone who really believes they have nailed someone as scum I don't care who it is, you don't kill someone who makes this post d1. Even if they have the capacity to play a brilliant scum game, killing them d1 is a low value-prop move because such a player would also have the opportunity to contribute a lot to town. Leaving them for d2 or d3 is much smarter. My suggestion for the group of conversion/Calix/Jock/disformation: you all seem to drift back and forth between clarity and confusion because this game is quite chaotic and there is a lot of seemingly good activity. Focus on the things that matter, and look at who you read as town. If you're an isolated vote right now then try to think why people aren't agreeing with you. HF, myself, and BC are all in agreement on ruxxar. I don't know for sure where they stand on rayn/VE but at this stage I think it's just a matter of time. If we are indeed in your town read pile then vote with us, because I for one am not going to support a disfo/conversion lynch today and I highly doubt HF and BC will either unless something unexpected happens which causes them to waffle. | ||
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On May 21 2019 18:29 Holyflare wrote: Why are you not calling me mafia for this then? hello, I've been asking you for like four fucking pages to vote with me and stop voting iGrok but it seems like you're just taking your time so I'm waiting to see what you're going to do on behaviour I have no reasons to think you're scum because your read progressions make sense and you called out exactly what I'd expect you to call out on ruxxar's vote post. You also called out rayn even if you for whatever weird reason called my list, half of which is ruxxar + rayn, trash | ||
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that is really what makes him scum. Also what is it about his posts that you find not scummy? If it's tone, I already can tell you that's probably not alignment indicative for ruxxar. | ||
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On May 21 2019 19:03 Holyflare wrote: Just seem honest and not really hiding much? Dunno how to explain feels really. He'll respond to me, no worries. but he isn't honest, and he is hiding things? Or at the very least not explaining them whatsoever. His read progressions are not natural, like he doesn't seem to be thinking about how to solve the game and just jumps between things. The only place where it seemed like he was catching onto something was with BC and he didn't complete the follow up. He asked a couple questions and every time he never followed up to get the answer. for instance, why did he say 1 of Calix/Conversion is prob scum and then completely drop it to refocus on you? Why did he say he would be around for questions and then didn't actually answer any questions posed to him immediately after, particularly by me? See between when he re-enters and 824, with full thread context (so you can see what he is being asked) For instance, he doesn't clarify his read on Jock when asked by Calix. The biggest single question dodge is this one though: On May 20 2019 16:42 ruXxar wrote: So is calix scummy or not? Make up your mind. You say im scummy for reading calix as scum, but now youre calling calix scum also. #galaxybrain I asked him to talk about disformation, and if he doesn't have an opinion there, about conversion pushing disformation. He ignores that question and misconstrues what I'm saying about Calix. I respond to this in the off-chance he is town and just misunderstood what I meant, and he never responds back, no follow up, it's like this exchange never happened. | ||
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On May 21 2019 19:03 Jockmcplop wrote: Plenty of people don't respond to questions. It doesn't always make them scum. What about ruxxar specifically makes not responding to questions scummy, but tone NAI?? tone is NAI because he bristles as both alignments. See my post @ #949 for an example where he is fairly aggressive as scum, or just read through Mafia Mafia Mafia yourself: On May 21 2019 08:31 wherebugsgo wrote: Just FYI, ruxxar can put up a fair amount of bristle as town so if you also share the bad take on “tone” that he’s town, you need a better reason to think so. Here’s an example post of ruxxar showing some fair amount of sass in a game where he rolled and won as mafia, oddly enough with Koshi: That post is from Mafia Mafia Mafia Also, he calls people townies all the time when he is mafia, so as I suspected this is not alignment indicative and certainly not any reason to think he has real reads. In context it makes his reread look much worse because a single town read on Koshi is literally the only thing he came back with. not responding to questions and not following up on your own questions, as well as reaching absurd reads with no progression is an indication that someone is scum because they aren't naturally trying to figure out the game. This is in contrast to, for example, various posts that Conversion, Calix, BC, HF, you, and disformation have all made this game where each of you have had something that didn't make sense and tried to track it down, or complained when felt ignored. These types of progressions are really really hard to fake because mafia already have full knowledge of the game, and faking them is sometimes quite dangerous because it takes a really good understanding of what town would think without that full information. It's much more common just to see mafia 1.) not ask these questions, or if they do, not follow up on them, and 2.) for mafia to reach conclusions in weird manners that don't make sense from a town perspective given the info that is present. This is actually the reason I never fully townread grack last game even though on tone he seemed fine. I know HF and rayn both really thought grack was town in the obs thread so I know that our philosophies aren't quite identical; I agree on the surface though that the tone/behaviour reads are very tempting. I honestly saw that myself in ruxxar before I checked a past game to see if it was possible in his scum range, and turns out it is. | ||
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On May 21 2019 19:14 VisceraEyes wrote: "The real read flag is how VE refused to consolidate votes on me" Is this shit for real? Like, this is a SEVENTY-TWO hour day, and HALF the players started playing the moment I went to bed JUST AS I SUSPECTED THEY WOULD. The only people mafia reading me are people who are mad at me for stupid things. That is ironic as hell. I think I might be the only person publicly mafia reading you and that's certainly not why but it's okay, I do agree with you that you're not getting lynched today and you have plenty of time to help me kill ruxxar. I know you're going to have to move your vote away from iGrok no matter what your alignment is, you're too smart to keep it there | ||
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On May 21 2019 19:16 Holyflare wrote: I dunno what to tell you bugs but I just don't find those things scummy? Maybe he had to disappear, maybe he found something better and flitted to the next thing on his mind? I think mafia would be more careful about having explanations at least rather than dropping things for no reason and moving on? What reason does he have to drop calix read etc? but he had no follow-up, and it's not like it happened once. And when called out he just ignored it, but we happen to know he's here reading the thread because he occasionally comes in and throws shade on a post before slinking off again. He's like the definition of active lurker. I think whether mafia find reasons for dropping reads is dependent on style. I think the more consistent behaviour with regards to explanations is whether they have reasons for voting someone. I think we can both agree that his reasons for his votes are pretty scummy. If not, then I encourage you to tell me who you think I should vote instead. | ||
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ROFL | ||
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On May 21 2019 19:18 VisceraEyes wrote: My vote is on Calix currently and yes, I intend to move it. ah right, I forgot that you ninja voted. I did notice though | ||
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On May 21 2019 19:24 VisceraEyes wrote: Like at this point I've come to grips with the fact that I'm not as townread as I was - my intention is to change that before D2. Who do you actually townread this game and why were you so easily convinced by Koshi that Calix is scum? | ||
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On May 21 2019 19:28 VisceraEyes wrote: I wouldn't even say I was convinced - I had considered the thought ever since she maf read me initially (yeah, my first thought was "she maf reads me? MAFIA!!!!!") and I decided that it was way more likely to be town. But then all of Koshi/ruXxar/(one of disfo/Conv) were all talking about her and I thought it was maybe possible. I'm not convinced - it seemed like a good place to park a vote. I even said I intended to change it before I left. please quote the post where you said you intended to change it because I don't recall you ever saying that. | ||
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To HF: If you don't think ruxxar is a good lynch then do you have any alternatives to suggest or are you going to continue to play coy? I'm not sure if I really have anything left to say on ruxxar and honestly my isolation here is pretty annoying because I'm constantly doubting myself. Like what I don't get is that I read Calix, conversion, disfo, Jock etc. as town but none of them are helping and they're just playing in some sort of sandbox off on the side refusing to get out. I'm wondering now if my townread on one or more of them is misplaced | ||
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On May 21 2019 19:35 VisceraEyes wrote: Ya guys, I'ma sheep this cycle sry. I think its better for everyone this way. HF I HAVE no thoughts as to who, I'm leaving that up to smarter people than me stop dodging my question. I can buy that you don't have a real scumread at the moment, I'll let you get away on that one. But you aren't getting away on who you townread. If your sheep target makes sense I'll let you go. Otherwise I guarantee I will push for you to get lynched d2, whether I am alive or not. | ||
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On May 21 2019 19:37 VisceraEyes wrote: I would still lynch iGrok maybe, flurry of activity looked okayish but HF right, hardly any conclusions. Not into Koshi/Rayn, I'm town on both of them. BC I'm townish on. I could maybe lynch Conversion, but I have them at both the same level of 'maybe a little scummy but I don't personally want to vote them' and it's not strong. Who's your strongest townread(s)? This still doesn't really indicate to me who you'd be willing to sheep. Do you think BC is wrong on ruxxar? If you think BC is town, am I also town? If we're both town, why do you not want to sheep us on ruxxar? | ||
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On May 21 2019 19:38 VisceraEyes wrote: Townread all of them for nothing Maf read VE for nothing Trying to squeeze blood out of an HF Maybe Bugs is just insane? maybe if you read the game for once you'd know why I've townread them this is actually completely unacceptable from you, dare I say it as either alignment. I have a town of posts on why I consider all four of those players town and it's remarkable to me that you'd consistently miss such a huge amount of content. | ||
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On May 21 2019 19:39 VisceraEyes wrote: Did you just claim mafia being in the mafia QT?!?!!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! are you planning on shooting me, is that why? | ||
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On May 21 2019 19:42 VisceraEyes wrote: Yes I think both you and BC are town. Why not sheep you? Because believe it or not, I can think you're town and disagree with your lynch preference! :OOOOOOO If cementing my vote to you is the only way for you to townread me then you're just going to have to lynch me. I've stated why I think ruXxar is town, I'm not going to quotewall it because you're just going to quotewall me back "explaining" why I'm wrong when all you're doing is narrative building. ITS WHAT YOU DO. So no, I disagree with lynching ruXxar, try again. look, you and I know that a quote wall of two posts is no quote wall. At this point I have little doubt that you have really even considered my points on ruxxar even if you are town because you just demonstrated that you think I townread four players for no reason whatsoever. At any rate, good luck finding someone to sheep when HF & BC are my strongest townreads, BC and myself are voting ruxxar together and HF basically just admitted he has no idea what is going on. | ||
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I'm not completely convinced that ruxxar is scum, especially because there is so much resistance, and I'm looking for good reasons to townread him but you all give me a handful of things that I point out are not alignment indicative, then throw up your hands after I respond and ask for alternatives rather than actually lay out objective facts. Like Calix you literally said your reason for townreading ruxxar is not rational. How the hell is anyone supposed to even respond to that? It also seems that people agree to some degree that disformation/conversion are not good lynches either. So what does that leave? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm gonna leave now and I'm not coming back for deadline, y'all can do what you want. If we hit scum great, hooray. Since no one has bothered to offer up an alternative, I'm not going to move my vote. | ||
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these are all of my reads On May 21 2019 19:58 BloodyC0bbler wrote: This thread is such a clusterfuck. Lets all sit back for like, 5 minutes. Remove all our current views for the moment on Calix and Ruxxar. I say this as these 2 have eaten up the majority of the last well, 30+ hours? Who does everyone else think is mafia. Of those people who has been say mentioned many times but like, any number of people but its either ignored, buried, or forgotten? This is for people like VE and Bugs. Stop fighting each other for 5 minutes and how about we find some form of consensus. and before you yell and scream at me bugs. Yes I think Ruxxar could still flip mafia, but it means jack shit currently if neither of us can convince anyone else to see what we have. So if only 2 maybe 3 people see what we see, just for a moment concede for the purposes of other options that we could be wrong. I have been trying to find consensus for over 24 hours and am about ready to give up. People are being inordinately difficult for seemingly no good reason and it seems like mafia are also blackballing a lot of my posts, because I think the amount of shade (especially the indirect shade) I'm getting can't entirely be from townies frustrated with how I'm playing. A lot of it doesn't seem natural or warranted given the actual content of my posts. | ||
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On May 21 2019 20:11 BloodyC0bbler wrote: damnit bugs. We have such differing reads on a few players =\ Basically mine is as followed Town BC WBG HF (again god help me) VE Null Koshi Conversion Jock Rayn (although he is leaning to the scum column now) Calix (only because I think Ruxxar is higher chance to be mafia, but could still be red) Igrok Mafia Ruxxar Disinformation Artanis I think most of it is that you have a lot more null reads than I do, and on reading disformation & artanis's posts I lean town (10-20% is a few ticks below baseline/null). I'm going to put the non-VE stuff in a spoiler so it's easier to read, the VE stuff is the most important read difference so I'm putting it outside. I don't have great reasons to believe VE is town in this game because of his read progressions and a lot of the completely nonsense things he's been saying. Go ahead and look at his interactions with me in particular and see whether what he's been doing has made sense to you. For instance, he moved on Calix with almost no mention beforehand, and he similarly has very little to say on disfo other than he reached the opposite conclusion on disfo as me after reading him. He doesn't clarify why, he just eventually reaches a conclusion with basically no steps inbetween. He does this on not just Calix and disfo but also ruxxar. He also claims I'm "narrative building" which I'm not sure why he says that or why he believes it, while just recently he claimed I have a bunch of reads for no reasons whatosever. My reasoning is very straightforward and clear in my posts and that's just a further indication that VE isn't actually following the game in order to try and figure out alignments. He's been present for a lot of the game, he's witnessed the fact that votes are completely spread out, but he never does anything to actually fix that. Don't you think that town VE would be up in arms about that? Town VE would either elevate a townread to fix that problem, or try to do it himself. He's done neither, and in fact I don't even remember if he's really commented on the state of the votes or the state of the thread at all. Contrast that with your reaction to the state of the game and I read you as far more townie. For VE to say he'd still lynch iGrok after literally all that happened in thread is the cherry on top. There have been pushes on ruxxar, disfo, conversion, Calix, and apparently he's taken some stances to some degree on each of these, but he chooses to say he'd be willing to lynch iGrok....???? If he reached the opposite conclusion of me on ruxxar & disfo then why is he still mentioning iGrok and not pushing disfo when disformation is actually a viable wagon?? There is no attempt from VE to help us get to a consolidation and that's another point in the scumbook. + Show Spoiler + In context of the big picture, conversion and disformation are most likely either opposite alignments or TvT because the only tunnel stronger than my own on ruxxar is conversion's on disformation. This means that you probably should do one of the following: 1. move conversion to town, 2. move disfo to null, or move both to town. You can check my filter for my detailed thoughts on both players. Jock asks a lot of questions and flits around and at times I've toyed with pushing him down to lean town from certain town, but he's certainly not null to me. He's one of the higher activity players in the game and I get the impression that he's actually trying to figure out things, he just doesn't really have a good grasp on how to do it. For example his responses about what he thinks are scummy are quite odd (they were odd last game too) but they're odd in the sense that he doesn't really have a scumhunting sense yet. I don't find them scummy odd, like it doesn't look like he's pushing any sort of real agenda. | ||
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Last game I recall that he was involved with both of us and fairly proactively at that. He'd take our opinions and try to see whether they're worth incorporating, and build on what we'd discuss in-thread. I don't see any of that this game. He's really fast to just pick fights with me rather than try to come to an understanding on why I am perceiving the game the way I am, and more importantly, he doesn't seem to be trying to interact with us to confirm whether his own vision of the game makes sense. | ||
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On May 21 2019 20:34 Holyflare wrote: I think I'd settle on a VE lynch maybe. But it annoys me to do that over people that think it's ok to not play the game. So rayn might be a spite lynch that could hit mafia but ve is an I think is actually mafia but if I'm wrong it would suck. VE just basically comes back to say look how towny I am, disputes a bunch of shit, says he's not gonna vote who his vote is actually on and is instead gonna sheep, doesn't actually sheep and leaves again. I put rayn and VE about on equal terms to flip scum, and honestly based on the progression of this game I find it very likely they could both be scum together. I hate doing this so standard disclaimer that it's probably premature, but they are also two of only about three players who have had opinions on ruxxar that seem completely unsupported. Like, a lot of people have parroted the idea that ruxxar looks town and a few (like you and Calix) have indicated to some degree that this is actually based on reading his posts, but neither rayn nor VE have any indication whatsoever why they believe ruxxar to be scum, nor did they bother asking ruxxar questions, like Calix, myself, and you did. Rayn has a whopping total of two posts on ruxxar: On May 20 2019 14:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: Jock, Calix, disformation. I dont think ruxxar is mafia. Especially to oeople who havent played with him he always looks scummy purely from how he writes his posts. On May 21 2019 15:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah neither of ruxxar abd conv are scum. and unlike ruxxar, rayn actually has one or two interactions with conversion. VE OTOH actually made up shit that ruxxar never said in order to call him town, then projected onto me by saying I made up things to call disfo town: On May 21 2019 06:19 VisceraEyes wrote: Nah I'm fine with ruX. I picked up reading after his initial post (which I initially townread him for) and he checked like all my townie marks in the first few posts after. I don't want to lynch ruX. Among the things I found were: Annoyance at being ignored. Annoyance with lurkers. Fluid reads that change as people post. Bringing up people others aren't looking at. Among other more nuanced things I look for. Rux not on my radar today. 1. Annoyance at being ignored, I asked VE to point this out, he never did. 2. Annoyance with lurkers, I again asked VE to point this out, he pointed out something about how ruxxar was annoyed with everyone being ACTIVE (an indication that VE has no idea what the fuck he's talking about this game) 3. Fluid reads that change as people post: again asked to point out how ruxxar was changing his reads, VE never responded. 4. Bringing up people others aren't looking at: LOL. I guess I'll cede this one? Calix was a dead easy target based on first post alone and as BC mentioned, ruxxar's own first post was almost identical to Calix's post. | ||
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you're doing that classic town vs town vs town shitfest thing. Let's back it up a bit, and come to an agreement that you all disagree with each other, and from this standpoint it looks like you're all arguing about completely pointless things when none of the things any of you are pointing out seem scummy to me. | ||
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On May 21 2019 20:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I really Hate you bugs, I really do. no you don't :D also it's my turn to shit on people unfairly for dirtying up the thread LOL On May 21 2019 20:53 disformation wrote: jo. bugs, calix do you guys see the problem in bc's read progression too or am i just stupid? nah I think you're reading into it too much besides at this point of the game why would we lynch into the pool of players who actually seem passionate about getting the game solved, and who are genuinely frustrated that we all collectively suck? I was feeling pretty garbo on the last page but now witnessing you all fight I realized that my gripe is mostly with the probable mafia in ruxxar + rayn + VE + maybe Koshi who aren't really trying to figure out the game at all but still managing to destroy the thread. Actually Koshi maybe is trying to figure out the game in his own way, sometimes it's hard to tell. | ||
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there is literally not a world in which BC as scum comes in and starts berating people for a horrible thread atmosphere. No offense BC but you're too lazy, and too smart, as scum to do that; if the thread is already chaos BC could just sit back and push from the sidelines. He's definitely 100% capable of doing that because he's one of the best scum players on this forum. In fact, I've played on the same team as him in which we would tag team towns-I naturally destroy threads, often regardless of alignment, and BC is a great instigator. Here, he's not instigating anything, he's just trying to figure out the game. | ||
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On May 21 2019 20:56 Jockmcplop wrote: I would like to do this. I think we need to start working together more. I'll start with this: ##Unvote Right conversion, I still think you're scum but my vote will most likely land elsewhere. I'm fed of being being distracted with you putting me on the defensive while I'm trying to figure out more important shit. WBG: Can you see why I need to figure out calix/koshi??? Calix has almost exactly the same reads as me and is now trying to get the rayn trayn a running. However, Koshi is insisting that calix is scum and we're all stupid for not already knowing that. So... I need to know whether calix is scum so I can figure out whether or not to reevaluate absolutely everything so far. What are you thinking on this? I'm sorry for being fucking useless but I don't even know how to figure this shit out at all... especially while koshi isn't here. I mean I don't understand why you would even bother to read Koshi's posts at all. Reading his posts is more for entertainment purposes than anything else. Although I will admit that I looked up Calix/Koshi history and the total number of games is 3, 2 where Calix is town with Koshi scum and 1 with the opposite. It would be pretty lulzy if it's opposite alignment again At any rate Calix is probably not scum here. Trying to figure out the game + trying to get town to consolidate on someone. Rayn is actually a great lynch target. Hell, if you both have the same reads then that's a great sign that you're both town, especially if you have reasons that differ from Calix's but you reach the same conclusions. Koshi I don't know how to read yet and that's why I keep saying we should just punt him. It's day 1 still, we don't need to get antsy about Koshi because we're not lynching him today. We're certainly not lynching Calix either. | ||
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On May 21 2019 21:01 Calix wrote: I don't understand why VE is being considered over rayn. At least VE's actually playing the game. A bunch of the points against VE seem to be meta-based, or based around 'well he'd usually do this but he's doing that instead' or something, and since I don't know VE, these points don't have much credibility with me tbh. VE and rayn are basically doing the same thing in this game. Note that they also mysteriously jumped to townreading each other while they have bristled with basically everyone else in the game. I think the only exception was VE pointing out that rayn had disappeared. | ||
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basically they both bring up some really old shit that they can't seem to get past, while townies would holistically look at the situation and incorporate new information as it arrives. Like they're both basically parroting the same stuff from nearly 2 IRL days ago when there are far better things to look at now. | ||
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If we're wrong about one or both of VE we get rid of an asset on D1 and despite this being a game with longer lynch cycles that's potentially a big loss Like, even if they're both scum together there's guaranteed to be a third person that's scum and I think that third person is probably an easier catch than either of them. In my opinion the world at this point makes total sense if VE & rayn are scum together, but that's too early for me to make that association for sure. What I'd rather do is try and hit that scum hiding somewhere, which we're pretty much guaranteed to have and we're more likely to hit if we're wrong on one or both of VE/rayn. | ||
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On May 21 2019 21:09 Calix wrote: I was literally just about to say that rayn's latest post is just him dredging up the same old, same old. this might actually be within rayn's town band though. For instance he constantly parroted the same things in the last game and after he died he was very consistent in the obs thread about how, if we kill grack, that would be really bad or whatever (grack was scum). I don't think it's as likely for town VE to do this though. | ||
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On May 21 2019 21:13 Jockmcplop wrote: You should vote rayn then. If we would be getting rid of an assett in VE, we wouldn't in rayn.. He has done fuck all useful in this game. I don't think either of them have been useful so far, but I think they'd both potentially be useful later. In the end though I'm happy to vote either of them if that's what we end up consolidating on. | ||
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On May 21 2019 21:13 Calix wrote: Rayn is not an asset IN THIS GAME. I don't give two shits about how good he's supposed to be or COULD be in a world where he's town when right now he is playing like this. I mean it's not like he can't ever be good in this game. This game has 72 hour day cycles and he's not the only choice for mafia. Like, last game he called myself, Vivax, Pandain, and FF scum right before getting shot on n1. 3 of those names were town, but I wouldn't say he was useless; he certainly got shot for a reason. Although with that said I highly doubt he'd be shot n1 if he's town and we leave him alive here. | ||
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On May 21 2019 21:15 Holyflare wrote: I could have been an asset last game yeah but you faked a red check on me. and in obs thread you and rayn both essentially said grack was the towniest town who ever towned Sorry to say but actually you or me dying d2 was probably the best thing that could've happened for town because otherwise we'd end up having continued that fight into d3/d4 (and we certainly weren't going to lynch Koshi or Grack in your stead on d2). And regardless of my ass reads I'm a bit proud I helped with the VE & BC circle and in the end read Pandain & slam properly, and prevented us from lynching Pandain who eventually was one of the deciders to kill grack. BTW what's your assetness this game? Have you decided who you want to lynch yet? | ||
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On May 21 2019 21:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: Another thing is this Calix thing. There is simply no way Calix considers Holyflare town at the point she does. That always makes her mafia, that, and that only. I don't think she can actually consider me mafia aswell at that point but that's more of a minor point. In one of the last games Calix played, if not last, there was a different parity cop check between me and HF and town (Calix included) chose to NOT vote either of us off (lol) in a no-lylo situation. There should never ever be a world where calix should be that confident of her HF read at the point she came to the thread, regardless of what she thinks about my affiliaton. I was going to point out that I also viewed HF town at that point, and I guess you were sort of internally consistent in that you called me scum (IIRC?) for calling HF confirmed town there But at any rate this read is total garbage given that you came to the exact opposite conclusion on ruxxar and he posted this as his first post: On May 20 2019 04:47 ruXxar wrote: sup guys, long time no see. skimmed through the thread, dont remember all the specifics. i dont wanna lynch the active people, cause they make the game fun. - jockmcplop is top town, he speaks from his heart. - hf looks townie, i love when he gets riled up. - VE seems aight, could be deviously smart mafia. - rayn attacking jockmcplop is dumb, and his fumbling to explain his first post was meh, dont make him mafia tho. - bugs looks aigh tish. - i dont like calix. seem stiff and too sure of himself. looks like hes posting with perferct information. already certain of his opinons, and just tries to find the best angle to defend them. ##Vote calix So at that point ruxxar should also not have been totally confident that HF and Jock are town? Like why extend this suspicion to every person who called HF & jock town EXCEPT ruxxar? | ||
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On May 21 2019 21:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: you dont have that much history with HF and you're dumb. look, I don't understand what you want me to do here. I'm actually advocating for you to stay alive another cycle. On the basis of the game in general just being an enjoyable experience for me I don't know why I'd want to keep you alive if killing you would make the thread more peaceful. And as much as you are warranted for calling me bad, you can't deny that I have a fairly good reputation for actually getting people lynched. | ||
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On May 21 2019 21:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: because none of the players in this game are the same person. different people saying same things don't mean same alignment because they are different people. this is ofc extremely hard to understand for dumb people. yeah, this would make sense if you actually had a nuanced read here but you don't. Like, you complain constantly about me not explaining reads and when I explain them in a way that you don't like you call me dumb over and over, but when you do it, it's fine and dandy. Like your reasons this game have literally just been "I've played with this person before and I think this therefore I'm right". I don't recall you doing that kind of thing to the degree I see you doing here in the last game. Do you have an actual rationale for why it's within ruxxar's towngame for him to do that and not be scum, and why, according to you, people misread him? Like surely if you expect to convince people of that, who haven't actually played with him, you need some way of laying it out? Similarly on Calix, since you apparently know her history all so well, why don't you spell it out to me? And now I'm going to include a sentence that predicts you're going to refuse to do this because you refuse to explain such things to people like me who obviously are too dumb to understand, with the hope that me including this sentence would discourage you from actually dodging like that if you're town. | ||
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also rayn if you really think Calix is 100% scum I don't understand why your vote is still parked on Jock when it is 900% clear that: 1. no one agrees with you on Jock and 2. Calix actually has a fair amount of momentum and switching your vote would be a good way to aid in consolidation on your scumread. Like hell, Calix is actually still technically the top wagon and lots of players have mentioned that they're willing to lynch Calix. Why not vote Calix then? | ||
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On May 21 2019 21:35 Calix wrote: Don't let rayn's comments about how 'dumb' you are get to you. He's trying to tilt you as part of mafia agenda. It's nothing personal. I'm well aware of that, I'm just ensuring I cover my bases so that if he does actually use that copout to dodge, it's well documented in the thread and it ensures he gets lynched. If he's town he should see I'm lending him a hand to pull himself out of this pit he's created for himself. If he's scum he'll obviously do whatever the hell he wants to do | ||
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On May 21 2019 21:37 Jockmcplop wrote: WBG have you thought that maybe he doesn't want to be on one of the big wagons for some reason? yes, but he's here and he'll respond. Once he responds, if his response doesn't make sense then we just kill him. | ||
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On May 21 2019 21:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: Look i have no idea what having good reputation for actually getting people lynched has got to do with anything. I dont care if i am lynched or not, i am posting my opinions and regrdless of if they are from page 2 or 100 it shouldnt matter because scummy things can happen on page 2 or 100. I know you disagree with me but i dont have any problem with it. I am calling you dumb because in the game we were mafia i gave you a strategy before i died, a strategy that should win you the game and you shot the only person who was sided with you and you + him could have convinced the third person to lynch a townie, but never you alone when the other two people you decided to not shoot into were 100% town to each other. You didn't even manage to aknowledge you made a mistake there after the game and in this game you are calling my mafia play something it definitely isn't. Okay back then i let that slide. Maybe you are just rusty when you just came back. Then after last game you shit on me after game that you should not listen to me when i voted for mafia the only day i was alive, and you managed to vote zero mafia in any of the four days. Like.... even as a joke that's hilarious. You can choose to believe me or not, i don't really want you to do anything. Just don't act like you're above everything because you're not. okay, got it, you're calling me dumb because you hold a grudge against me. | ||
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On May 21 2019 21:47 VisceraEyes wrote: Like LOL with the thread in the state that it is it's almost guaranteed that mafia aren't even playing right now, it's a carbon copy of last game. Literally the only difference is that I don't agree with Bugs so he thinks I'm mafia and wants to lynch me for it in spite of the most logical thing being that mafia just aren't playing. Whatever. Figure it out. I'll help consolidate. Don't lynch me. Don't be retarded. If you vote rayn I might spare you nah who am I kidding I'll probably try to kill you right after rayn dies | ||
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no thanks, the burden of proof on who is scum is not solely on me. Do you think Koshi is town btw? If you think rayn is town at least, and are confused at why I think you might be scum, and your intention is to sheep someone smart this game (clearly not me) then why not just sheep rayn? | ||
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On May 21 2019 21:49 Holyflare wrote: You're the bugs of the rayn lynch trying to ram it down our throats and I don't think I like this version.+ Show Spoiler [stuff that I'm thinking in my he…] + I think you might have a good chance at being mafia in fact because of this. You seem to put weight into people being mafia way too much on little nuances that shouldn't carry that much weight and you have seemingly inconsistent thought processes on say lynching someone to get a view of someone else. I find it weird how you ask everyone for help on reading calix but feel this passionate about rayn. do you remember Jock's response to me last game about what he thought scumhunting meant? Probably not...here's a refresher: On May 01 2019 01:38 Jockmcplop wrote: Yeah he wants to get people talking. I can't think of anything to say in particular though. My strategy for finding scum at the moment is to see who's acting suspiciously, but there isn't much here to go on to be honest. On May 01 2019 11:23 Jockmcplop wrote: I have read incognito's guide. At the moment I'm looking for typical mafia stuff, apologetic posting, if anyone has an agenda or is making alot of posts without contributing, inconsistent weird logic. That stuff is suspicious. #1 priority as town for me is finding scum. LOL On May 01 2019 12:07 Jockmcplop wrote: BC seems town He's wrong about me but he's genuinely hunting I think. FF could be scum. Just turned up to claim town and hasn't said anything at all. VE is the most blatant town to me so far. His posts are sensible and he's actually contributing. MZ reads town Can't read HF Bugs is interesting. Lots of questions no answers. Probably the most scummy out of everyone, just from the number of questions he's asked people that are irrelevant or pointless. I don't really have any strong scum reads at the moment. Seems to me like this isn't really a good indicator for Jock, but could just be me. | ||
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On May 21 2019 21:56 Holyflare wrote: I don't find this consistent tbh maybe. He seems to be valuing other people's reads (eg Koshi) to use as an excuse to be unsure of someone he has voted with at every instance. He just feels a bit off to me. on the bright side if we kill Jock and he flips town we could just kill rayn immediately afterward right? I'd actually love to see what would happen in that case | ||
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Anyway HF I agree with you that it looks weird, there are just lots of other things I've found townie that Jock has said, particularly w.r.t frustration about the game and in general his constant presence in a lot of our conversations, even if he sometimes doesn't necessarily independently contribute much (though he contributed a fair amount on conversion, that's for sure) | ||
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On May 21 2019 21:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah you could kill me and then kill Calix then cry after game because jock won. If you think Calix is scum why the fuck would we lose | ||
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On May 21 2019 21:59 Jockmcplop wrote: Don't you think that maybe... JUST MAYBE That's why rayn decide to pick on me? wait what? Why would rayn pick on you so that we'd kill him after killing you that makes no sense whatsoever | ||
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On May 21 2019 22:02 Jockmcplop wrote: No but he would pick on me because I'm obviously town and not gonna get lynched so you'll never find out. ah, okay, guess that makes more sense. idk you do seem like a very easy target for scum rayn to pick on and I think he'd either be able to put himself in a situation like this one where he basically guarantees you don't die so he can talk about you constantly or roll with a situation where we somehow do end up sheeping him and killing you but in that case everyone looks bad. | ||
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VE I challenge you to engineer a vote that makes sense in this situation. | ||
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My god what happened Things somehow got like 5x worse?? I agree with the takes that this game sucks and there is some missing piece here. I just reread all the back and Firth’s and came to the conclusion that mafia are probably not present at all, or if they are, they end up being semi-participatory because no one has any clue who will be suspected next. I waffled on Artanis quite a bit and found BC’s OMGUS strange even. With the jock business, I agree with Calix basically 99% that it was an inconsistency but not worth lynching Jock over given the amount of evidence we have for Jock. I actually find rayn’s push an absolutely terrible way to play and I wanted to quit and quit on behalf of Jock because the logic is just so bad. However it fits to a tee with what rayn did last game to me-he just picked one random thing which was me not explaining some read (which I did, like 5000 fucking times) and then harping on that to eternity, forcing me to just ignore him otherwise the thread would blow up. The only issue is that rayn has disappeared since then and seems mostly non-participatory in finding other scum-he just found some weird reasons to continue townreading ruxxar. idk though, he’s probably townier than scum just on the jock basis alone. Here are the characters that stood out: VE “looks” better but he doesn’t seem to be contributing much in terms of original opinions, just looking to see where people will jump. I fully expect town VE to actually take some concrete stances and try to clear up some of the problems and I’m not seeing enough of that here ruxxar is completely absent and rayn defending him on jubjub grounds. This is the perfect scenario for mafia-having said some things that could easily be identified with perfect info (like if BC-Artanis is TvT and BC reacts really strongly it’s one of the easiest things ever to highlight the “weirdness” of BC’s reaction and then fuck off and never follow up on it which is exactly what ruxxar did. Rayn highlighting this as evidence that ruxxar is town like two IRL days after it happened is just moronic when ruxxar has just completely fucked off) Conversion is also mostly completely absent and despite looking fairly good for the meta he brought up on both disfo and Koshi he is a complete non-factor here. However on past evidence I find him less likely scum so let’s give him a pass. iGrok I waffle on between looking worse and better, he is around and fighting but a lot of what he is saying doesn’t make sense. The evidence in favour of iGrok that’s getting ignored I think is that he clearly has notes on the game and is struggling to keep up. He had posts he could cite that he wanted a second look at, and did actually follow up to some degree. That’s not typical lazy-scum behaviour, I think. Given that we can take for granted he’s struggling with the thread the not making sense part might not be alignment indicative. So who I’d be willing to kill, scummiest to least scummy: ruxxar, still, because everyone has just fucking ignored him and he’s sitting pretty. He never answered HF’s questions and actually even came back to comment on Jock SO HE’S CLEARLY READING THE THREAD VE, because he somehow managed to be present and still completely useless. I actually do think a lot of his posting is being done to be deliberately misleading and he could be the active scum here Of the rest of the players I’m still unsure because rayn is moving around in my list, Koshi is impossible to read, Artanis and BC will probably tunnel each other, and more time will hopefully sort out disfo/conversion further. BTW Jock let’s hydra next game | ||
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I actually don’t care at this point how many people disagree with me for stupid reasons, it’s undeniable given that he’s an EU player and he just skipped the most active hours for the game with all the other EU players. As a townie here he’d have no excuse to be actively lurking because I’m the only person who fucking scumreads him. Why would he be afraid to be present in the thread and respond to people?? Despite saying he’d be around for responses?????? | ||
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Are you waiting for him to last minute dump something in the thread before deadline? Like I guarantee you he’s working on some garbage filler post that will take up some space and nothing else | ||
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On May 22 2019 08:03 disformation wrote: random shennies on koshie so i dont have to look at his filter again? the last time i tried that i had a laughing fit? bugs what do you think about the case on bc? we found a fairly decent point by ruxxar on bc. though i have to agree that ruxxars activity is super garbo and he was def around to comment on jock earlier No fuck you that “point” on BC was never pushed and it is the easiest thing ever to fake as mafia. It’s a “bad reaction” post, like if he is scum and he knows BC is town that is literally one of the easiest comments he can make and there is no reason anybody except rayn should townread him for that, especially given that he is ACTIVELY LURKING AND NOT FOLLOWING UP ON ANYTHING | ||
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On May 22 2019 08:06 disformation wrote: also not 100% sure if ruxxar qualifies for caught scum when you are the only one voting him? I want to pull my hair out He fucking posted a huge nonsense post on HF the moment he knew I had traction on him, destroying all of the hard work I did. YOU ARE ONE OF THE PLAYERS WHO STOPPED VOTING HIM I’ve done my part. You all are just fucking hopeless at this point | ||
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Like no one besides rayn has been able to cite anything useful and ruxxar is probably the player who has been defended the most for the worst reasons. He’s not even around to defend himself like iGrok is and he gets defended hard Hell we almost killed Jock over an inconsistency which is completely understandable if you’re a new player and forced by multiple people to come up with a reason on a vote early game. But everyone is willing to vote the least useful player in this entire game?? Like without a doubt ruxxar has had 0 impact on this game, even less than Koshi. Yet he gets the most defenders. | ||
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I’d be happy to kill VE as well, but feel way more confident on ruxxar | ||
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It is the missing piece we are after. There is a chance he comes back and posts on this but he never followed up on anything, but is actively lurking. There is no better lynch | ||
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Look at the participants, and look at their time zones. ruxxar was here the whole time and he had 0 input. He had the jock input and that’s it. 100% scum, just sat back while a bunch of townies argued and whines about the game being too hard | ||
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On May 22 2019 08:22 iGrok wrote: I've only got three points on rux. 1 null, 1 town, 1 scum (#1347). Initially thought rux was scummy but others have been more active, generating more scum points. If it comes down to myself, bc, or rux, I will obviously vote rux. Still don't know wtf to think about HF/Calix. there's something I'm just not seeing. Calix did soft defend rux once but thats not a major point either... stfu and vote ruxxar, I am helping you here. I’m putting my credibility on the line because I believe you’re not a worthy lynch today. If you want to waffle on this and not use your brain I’m 100% fine with giving up on moving this lynch and instead parking my vote on you because of uselessness and killing you So I’m giving you a choice, don’t make me regret it | ||
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Aka active lurker 101 | ||
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On May 22 2019 08:25 Calix wrote: Okay come on. You now want to kill ruxxar after WBG the guy who really wants ruxxar dead comes in? Sorry WBG but I can't. I cannot believe this guy is town when his reads just always align with whatever is easy. No, he did mention he was reading ruxxar earlier when he entered a long time ago. Sounds like the simpler solution is to read his post at face value, because he mentioned to me earlier in the game he wasn’t convinced on ruxxar | ||
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On May 22 2019 08:27 VisceraEyes wrote: I mean we're secure in a lynch now, like you wanted. But like...I could maybe lynch ruxx. You're right, the resistance was real. Let’s kill him then | ||
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But maybe it’s a good nervous | ||
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On May 22 2019 08:30 Calix wrote: I checked his filter and between his last 're-entry' and him making a post on ruxxar, I don't see any indications that he was looking at ruxxar specifically. I mean, I...guess it's possible he's referring to that one ruxxar post eons ago? But eh. Not what I meant. I meant first reentry, he did mention to me specifically he’d read on ruxxar and then posted some cryptic thing with names and numbers next to them. Me and HF had a 2 IIRC Igrok can you explain that | ||
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Like I’m not afraid of looking dumb but really I’ve seen weirder things happen. Everything points to ruxxar being caught scum here Also in the end half of me is okay with killing iGrok of people don’t want to switch because if I’m truly correct, my vindication will come eventually | ||
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Although I might be the only person who townreads iGrok here so w/e | ||
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We’re the only town that matters, we’re actually here giving half a crap about the game! | ||
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On May 22 2019 08:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh I'm nervous. But I've also got you in here screaming about wanting to lynch me no matter what happens so what the fuck does changing votes do for anything? I have had a townread on Ruxxar all game and you're asking me to change my vote AGAIN now that we've actually decided on someone YOU JUST SAID YOU'RE RELATIVELY OKAY WITH DYING....like I just don't know what you need man, you're tilted and there's nothing WE can do to bring you back. After this phase just leave and come back D2 (or not HEHEHE) refreshed and NOT titled to shit. I mean if I don’t come back there’s a chance ruxxar never dies right That’s what’s motivating me here | ||
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It’s actually happening Ok I’m gonna get on a train and go to a meeting, be back around 1 hour before deadline | ||
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On May 22 2019 10:25 iGrok wrote: @Calix if you can find a flaw in this please let me know. This is so stupid Like anyone can come and pick 3 names at random and assert one of them has to be scum and then twist the logic to say one specific person out of those 3 has to be scum based on the associations solely between those 3. This is why we don’t do associations preflip. You have no evidence for why it’s towny to attack a random person with no progression nor follow up on that read whatsoever. In fact, the moment you find a single scum who would do that, it negates this argument entirely. Also, this association business throws away mountains of evidence that both Calix and HF ON INDEPENDENT TERMS are town. Who the fuck cares if ruxxar threw one post on HF and then walked away, never pushing it, never following up, never responding to any questions?? If he’s scum he could have literally picked any name in the entire list of active players and written about the same thing. If you don’t believe me, look at how VE has been saying I’m making up narratives. I’m clearly not, I know I’m town. VE saying this says nothing about his alignment and neither should what ruxxar said about HF say anything about his. What matters is what ruxxar did before and after, and what his motivation was. There is no town motivation for throwing out that read, fucking off without pushing it, wasting the vote, and staying out of the thread DURING EU HOURS when the game was the most active. Literally, he complained about the game being too active, and you want to kill HF who is one of the few players who has been around and actually done things in this game. Come the fuck on | ||
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You know why that is? Because it’s super fucking easy to come in and shit on people for being wrong when you’re scum and you can do whatever you want. ruxxar is a pretty good scum player as well, btw. He is extremely slippery and at least in the games I’ve checked he’s never been lynched. His posting cadence also matches with his scum game-as town he posts large bursts of one liners and constantly follows up on things and tries to figure things out. As scum he fucks off for hours on end and occasionally will post large walls of text or push a random nitpick with no follow up later. | ||
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On May 22 2019 10:41 iGrok wrote: Lol, Calix and HF on "INDEPENDENT TERMS" are red. The weakest of those assertions is the Calix/HF one, because HF switched off calix fairly quickly. Why you're attacking the ruxx/hf assertion doesn't make sense. In your words, "Come the fuck on". Ruxxar's filter is filled with brief periods of activity which go like this: "I'm back, here's a quick summary, some filler posts, bye". H's acting like a dude who doesn't have a whole lot of time to put into writing up stuff, but he is clearly reading based on his quotes in his posts. Not everyone spams like You, HF, Koshi, or VE. Look if you want to put effort into reading ruxxar then go see some of his past games and come up with an example where he actually does this as town. Like I fucking guarantee that you will never find an example of a town game where he dumps three or four massive posts with literally 0 follow up. | ||
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On May 22 2019 11:24 Conversion wrote: d'oh. I just meta-dived ruxxar and he plays really fluid, jokes around a lot as town. his mafia games are like 4+ years old, though, and not sure if they should really count as much here (couldn't find any more recent games) but you're right in the fact that nothing about his game here resembles the town games I read meta wise. in terms of reads, my brain is fried (as evidenced by fucking up a simple logic table up ^^^ there), and I think I'm inclined to believe bugs.. I think disfo is in a pretty non-safe spot going on this ruxxar lynch here as well, so ruxxar flipping mafia doesn't give him too much cred. I don't really buy any of Koshi's reads, and him dodging me and not calling me scum is pretty fuckin' weird cause I'm not really playing any differently than I have in the games we've played together. m If ruxxar flips mafia though Koshi is never, ever, 100% never ever mafia. and now I'm sleepy and lost 90 minutes of s tudying for an interview so I'm peacing out. gl hf, see y'all after like 4 PM est for a bit before I fly out I didn't read too much into his scum games either other than the timings of his posts because I don't think the content would be indicative if he's a good scum player, which I think on a results basis, he is. It's really hard to nail someone who never gets lynched as scum because their play will basically be guaranteed to have lots of town tells in it, and meta reading them by reading their scum games is a crapshoot. On the other hand, if you can find something that they do that they literally never do as town, and it's on core behaviour that's integral to scum hunting (aka followups, conversational play) I think that's good enough. | ||
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ruxxar is the best lynch we've got. Look in my filter if you feel doubts, or look at his town game and compare here. If anyone who doesn't want to vote him can find an example from his town games where he posts some massive read posts, unprompted, with no followup, and then fucks off for hours and hours on end, I will forgive you for not voting him, even if he goes unflipped (i.e. you all decide to kill someone else in the next 20 minutes while I'm gone on the shennaniest of last minute shenannies) | ||
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fuck | ||
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I felt pretty good about HF and BC but now I'm just confused. someone help. | ||
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btw I can maybe potentially see why people think HF is scummy but this single exchange makes it really hard for me to scumread HF. I noticed that rayn's response to the "claimed? is it a joke" thing basically looked at surface level like a denial of the claim, aka it was fake, but no one else pointed it out except HF. like logically actually it's probably NAI because mafia would probably also see this and not care to bring it up, buuuut feels town. I thought iGrok looked okay but the 1 scum 3 person thing just completely ignored the possibility that all three might be town and iGrok doesn't see any independent reasons for calling Calix/HF town??? like what Views on iGrok are really hard to parse though. HF, VE, Calix (? until recently?) said iGrok is scum disfo thinks (?) iGrok is probably a good lynch, seems to also think iGrok is scum rayn, koshi, me think/thought iGrok is town conversion ignored iGrok on Koshi telling him iGrok is town, so basically sheeped Koshi AFAICT Artanis on iGrok: "not much there, could lynch on blandness" what in the fuck is going on here | ||
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Does that scumteam even make sense? | ||
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On May 22 2019 13:31 iGrok wrote: Yeah, I'm going to ignore the possibility that my two scummiest reads and the current lynch-leader are all three townies, because no one thought that. hmm I'm actually back on townleaning you, I reread and I'm not seeing you being scum especially in your interaction with Calix. That feels town-town on both sides. I honestly don't think HF or BC are scum here either, though my read on BC has weakened a bit. I think Artanis just leaped to the top of my scum list. I'm fighting between who's second/third atm but I've felt fishy about disformation/conv and how that all went down... VE also on my radar but I think I'm not so concerned about VE because I'll probably have plenty of time to talk to him and he did seem quite cooperative at EOD. alright, my reread is done so I'm going to cry in my corner for a few hours | ||
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On May 22 2019 15:23 Jockmcplop wrote: Sorry for breaking the rules I didn't even think at the time. I can continue to play but its up to you guys really. I don't want people to think they should lynch me and not bother because of what I said, that would suck hard and be unfair The other option is I stop posting altogether for this game, which I'm absolutely fine with. JOCK YOU'RE BACK :D I'm actually really happy cause I got sad reading that huge mess and I was really enjoying playing with you. BTW idk if you saw this earlier but let's hydra next game (or maybe you can hydra with someone not as shitty as me). I kinda wanna hydra cause my solo scum reads are garbage and I need to work on that, plus it's super fun to chat about the game with someone you know is seeing it from a similar in-game perspective On May 22 2019 15:13 Holyflare wrote: What the fuck have I done that makes you question those reads??? You're the one who defended and saved igrok who has the shittest logic I've ever seen. He's picked 3 random people and decided one has to be mafia in it for absolutely no reason related to in game posts and then done nothing. I've completely decimated his post on me and disfo even confirmed it and he hasn't even batted an eyelidm read my next few posts, my read on you hasn't actually changed, and I think on principle my read on BC hasn't really changed much either, just a bit wary/bothered that he bristled on Artanis so hard. Lots of interactions to play with there though and I'm on the side of Artanis being scum for now so we'll see what happens. Actually not sure if he's my top scum read yet as I think I want to prepare something for someone else. The main catalyst for me being utterly confused is that the jock mess actually caused rayn to shoot up townier in my reads list. Like something just went off in my head as I flashbacked to last game; I probably wouldn't have seen it if you hadn't also seen and acted on the exact same contradiction by voting. Like my personal opinion as I was in the process of reading that entire exchange was in agreement with Calix, that what Jock posted was indeed a contradiction and that it looked pretty awful but in context of the sea of posts Jock had I didn't think it lent much to Jock being scum. However, given how rayn plays I could 100% see town rayn just completely ignoring everything else and attacking Jock for that because that's literally what he did to me last game; he picked on the fact that I was a bit too slow in explaining some particular read I had for him and then he just didn't let that go. I really didn't notice this earlier in the game because I pretty much tuned out both rayn and Koshi for a good chunk of time and haven't really reread them at all. On May 22 2019 15:27 Holyflare wrote: That's fine. Please read igrok and then my points about him. Let's talk about iGrok and Calix's interaction from EoD, I want to be convinced here because I'm on the town iGrok train with rayn/koshi/maybe now Calix and want to understand more. He had a fake vote on Calix as well as rayn, but only pointed out the one on rayn. He talked about a vote on Calix as if it wasn't a fake vote, and I found that odd. Why be transparent about one and not the other? Could chalk it up to a mistake...but otherwise the crux of my read at this moment is tone/behaviour; I saw how Calix reacted to their interaction by backing off a bit on iGrok and he did a very similar thing to me on the last page when I called him out for the 1 scum 2 town thing. Do you acknowledge those things or do you think they're not relevant here? Lastly HF, I want you to read this string of posts from VE, and just note it, you don't have to provide thoughts yet. I'm going to make a callout of some other oddities later tonight when I have some more time and let people come to their own conclusions about what they mean. On May 22 2019 08:25 VisceraEyes wrote: Yo bugs. I'll lynch Ruxxar now. If you want. *shrug* On May 22 2019 08:27 VisceraEyes wrote: I mean we're secure in a lynch now, like you wanted. But like...I could maybe lynch ruxx. You're right, the resistance was real. On May 22 2019 08:29 VisceraEyes wrote: Only if you stop calling me mafia though, and stop freaking the fuck out. Then I'll switch my vote. On May 22 2019 08:32 VisceraEyes wrote: omg then you can fuck yourself I'll just kill MY scumread. LOL | ||
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On May 22 2019 16:25 Holyflare wrote: I don't really know where he ever says his calix vote is fake, nor do I care. If his rayn vote is fake and you know it was fake, why does he use it as a reason to scum read me in his case as if it were real? I liked VE's deadline posts. Here's the "I unvoted Calix" thing, iGrok doesn't say it was a fake vote: On May 22 2019 07:16 iGrok wrote: I unvoted on Calix when disinfo pointed out the logic. And alright, dumb town is harsh? but I still don't like jumping across so many accusation focuses so early. But he never put this vote in the vote thread and never mentioned that he didn't do that (unlike the rayn one) and the only reason I even noticed this is because I knew from the vote thread that iGrok technically never voted until his first and final vote on you. I only wanted to point out that iGrok said his rayn vote was fake, but he never said that his Calix vote was fake, and I find that weird. I'd like him to explain this, actually. Anyway, I don't know if they mean anything in terms of iGrok's alignment. Like from some weird perspective I could imagine he wanted to see reactions to him "voting" rayn in thread but didn't want to place a real vote because it was just for reaction fishing? No idea. I think him reaching the conclusion on you being scum because he thinks one out of you three of ruxxar/HF/Calix is scum is pretty pants-on-head. Like this assertion is so blatant that I don't think he'd do it as scum, it draws too much attention. It's just that he tried to logic and then failed to consider whether you and Calix are both just town and you had a moment where you waffled on the read or whatever. | ||
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I'm not sure how any of these points lead to a calix scum read by the way. Entry post is basic - mafia, that's the extent of why she's scummy essentially? Otherwise it's ve/rayn conspiracy that changes to not really anymore - not scummy bc point doesn't mean anything? ruxxar point shows calix changing a read because someone shares a townie mindset with her - not scummy? agrees with all the rayn points and if he didn't have meta with rayn it would be good?????? conclusion is that this is the most mafia person in the game lol?????? The way these points are written, if iGrok is town, they come off more like iGrok had a gut read of Calix being scum and then confirmation biased himself further, if he saw anything at all scummy beyond the first two things. Like "basic post easy to make if less experienced scum" -> sounds like a data point fit to an already held conclusion, whereas ruxxar made a very similar beginning post and yet iGrok thought that post was fine. From a town-iGrok perspective the first two bullets (basic post + sheeping) are basically thread sentiment/easy primers and Calix is/was an easy scum read. | ||
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On May 22 2019 17:15 Holyflare wrote: Let it be said that igrok saved calix from dying but still called her mafia. Then voted a solo wagon and berated bugs for it. If igrok stayed on his mafia read calix then she would have been (and was) in the lead for a substantial margin of time. alright, you convinced me, this is scummy, we actually just mindmelded because I came back from a reread. like a few hours before deadline he admitted he knew that he had no chance of getting you lynched: On May 22 2019 06:41 iGrok wrote: Because I don't think I can get HF lynched. and then magically near deadline when it was basically just like four of us he wasted his vote rather than staying on Calix. I have to bend over backwards to explain this from a town perspective. Like there's a slim possibility he 1.) unvoted Calix just on a whim cause he was like "oh let me think about this" and then in the process of fighting with Calix came to the same conclusion as her that he was fighting a townie, then when he saw me charging on ruxx (with Calix present in the thread, maybe he figured he could get Calix to join him on you???) he decided he'd just try to throw it out there that we should lynch you instead. But that's way more complicated than the simpler answer of he's scum | ||
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That's horseshit and VE would never do that as town. VE would fight with me and try to convince me that I'm making a bad decision, and to sheep HIM instead. I would've sheeped him too if he did this, but he just was so meek that I was like okay if you have no reads of you're own I'm going with my gut on this, you can do w/e you want. I tried to bait him a bit but I'm actually still surprised he just randomly sheeped me instead of doing his own thing and telling me to fuck off. Like, he asked rayn and Koshi if their votes were pliable earlier in the game and tried to sheep on Jock rather than attempting to convince them of his own reads. Since when does VE actually try to consolidate on townies?? It felt like it was forced because I was calling him out on not consolidating, but after the callout he started consolidating on people he'd called town all game. | ||
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Prior to last page I've been mulling VE & Artanis. That scumteam actually makes perfect sense for this game, and if VE is scum with iGrok it's almost actually a good thing we didn't kill iGrok yesterday because it would have been less obvious to me that VE was more than happy to switch off him for complete BS reasons. Like can you tell me why VE, who has basically been saying he's completely fine with lynching iGrok all game (essentially his only consistent scum read) would switch to one of his townreads (ruxxar) and someone he claimed to reach the exact opposite conclusion as me, and fought me over for a good half the day, at the last minute, with basically no resistance whatsoever? Like I'm trying to consider why town VE would ever do that and I just can't. He was even berating me for supposedly not being on any of the leading wagons. Then, when he's on the leading wagon and he can just off iGrok, his ONLY SCUM READ, he sheeps me on someone he reached the exact opposite conclusion on?? Like the only reason he cited was that there's been resistance to my lynch of choice. That was enough to throw away his townread? | ||
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On May 22 2019 18:06 Holyflare wrote: I don't think VE's deadline looks as bad as you think it does. You essentially bullied him to voting with you. Seems natural progression to me. Your point is largely meta that you don't think he'd normally do that and I don't have that meta so can only look at what I see at face value. I think I might have to relent on calix being mafia. Don't think the igrok progression looks good. Might also explain why a mafia igrok has to arbitrarily say one of me or calix is mafia with bad reasons and why he essentially scum reads her for bad points - because it's not a natural scum read. I can agree to disagree on the bullying but not the naturalness of it. Forget the meta for a second here. 1. All day he says my main target, ruxxar, is a townread. Says he reached opposite conclusions on ruxxar/disfo (so he scumreads disfo-I offered both of these targets as consolidation options but VE never really bothered with disfo, why? also said I was basically freaking out about him not sheeping me but I presented those choices fairly transparently, if he disagreed he could've just tried to convince me to kill disfo instead) 2. EOD He already was on the leading wagon, for a scumread, iGrok. Then he's actually the FIRST one to get cold feet. It's not like someone else moved and then he was like "oh clearly iGrok is not happening, time to jump ship" it was more like "oh bugs is here and he said he's confused why I'm not here buddying, guess I should just throw away two of my reads and buddy him" this is sort of the only post in that series I actually half liked: On May 22 2019 08:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh I'm nervous. But I've also got you in here screaming about wanting to lynch me no matter what happens so what the fuck does changing votes do for anything? I have had a townread on Ruxxar all game and you're asking me to change my vote AGAIN now that we've actually decided on someone YOU JUST SAID YOU'RE RELATIVELY OKAY WITH DYING....like I just don't know what you need man, you're tilted and there's nothing WE can do to bring you back. After this phase just leave and come back D2 (or not HEHEHE) refreshed and NOT titled to shit. idk, he even admitted we had plenty of time left and could've actually had a discussion on it but he just didn't want to I suppose? Maybe I came off too strong, which is odd because I feel like VE has prickled at me far more than I have in reverse. anyway, the one post I just could not get over, particularly in context of a whole bunch of other things that I've noticed that VE has just gotten wrong, was this one: On May 21 2019 06:19 VisceraEyes wrote: Nah I'm fine with ruX. I picked up reading after his initial post (which I initially townread him for) and he checked like all my townie marks in the first few posts after. I don't want to lynch ruX. Among the things I found were: Annoyance at being ignored. Annoyance with lurkers. Fluid reads that change as people post. Bringing up people others aren't looking at. Among other more nuanced things I look for. Rux not on my radar today. The first two points are completely unsupported, the 3rd is subjective/VE didn't really provide evidence for this and the 4th I'll concede. I called VE out on this, like at least twice, and never got complete responses. VE only responded on the "annoyance with lurkers" was mentioned and that was apparently a misread on his part. | ||
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On May 22 2019 18:34 Koshi wrote: Basically you are scumreading VE for making a correct read but supporting your terrible read after hijacking the thread and being a whiny little bitch pushing Ruxxar lynch relentlessly. yes. | ||
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On May 22 2019 19:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Calix and VE liking the BC case and then never actually moving their vote when they didn't seem convinced by the leading wagons makes my boner to lynch all of them that much harder. Ah you’re here for only two hours right? So this is my only chance Two things I’d like you to explain: 1. If BC and VE are scum why was BC willing to help me push VE? And why would VE say that BC was buddying me/not actually believing in the case on VE himself if they’re both scum? 2. Why would either Calix or VE vote BC at EOD when igrok reached the lead? They seemed far more into killing iGrok than BC 3. Where is disformation? | ||
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On May 21 2019 21:45 VisceraEyes wrote: OMG BC is voting for me and I jsut bet you he never did open my filter. That means he's voting for me on YOUR behalf bugs. Not that that's a problem for me. Just thought I'd mention it because while you think I'm scum I might as well act like scum. I do intend to help this game, I said I'd sheep. I'll help with flip information, it's real easy. Don't lynch me over people who aren't playing that's fucking stupid and retarded. Why are you even considering that shit? This one artanis | ||
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On May 22 2019 19:54 disformation wrote: bleh. -.- i am here. though tired and at work. bc: totes scum calix, ve: totes scum for saying they like the case but refusing to vote disfo: only guy to vote totes scum and only other guy to at least try to get ppl to vote bc: *insert tumbleweed gif* not sure if that makes you scum, but I feel kinda insulted -.- rofl you have the best callouts this game | ||
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On May 22 2019 20:21 VisceraEyes wrote: You're lucky I don't have a gun. Or don't I? Sleep well. I have a roleblocker on my team so I'm going to sleep very well, don't worry | ||
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On May 22 2019 20:29 VisceraEyes wrote: Ugh I fucking despise scum claims. Even jokes are so fucking annoying but if you're mafia and just did that shit... I mean there's no way you get me killed this game VE, it would take your team a miracle. | ||
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that's how confident I am I mean even if I do get lynched in that like 0.02%, I don't see how my roleblocker would get lynched | ||
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On May 22 2019 20:45 Calix wrote: Could you actually fuck off? I am trying to play the game and you keep harassing me and yelling at people who 'talk to me like I am a person' as if I am somehow undeserving of that. It's rude and starting to get to me on a personal level. I have a question for you Calix Since you've played a couple games as town against Koshi now, did you ever manage to catch him in those two previous games? Did he play like this in either of those two ones? How about the opposite, when you were scum vs his town? | ||
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On May 22 2019 20:51 Calix wrote: Uh, I think I got lynched D1 in the scum game. And I don't think I've ever 'caught' him as town until after I was dead, lol. So my record of reading Koshi is, on the whole, not great. you have the benefit of hindsight now, do you think this play is more similar to his town or scum games? If I had the power to smite Koshi and rayn both out of the game I probably would, even though sadly I have a townread on rayn and sort of a community town read on Koshi | ||
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On May 22 2019 20:58 disformation wrote: he is pretty unchill. but can be town!koshi being super annoyed at kinda getting ignored all game you mentioned earlier in the game he had reads you disagreed with and didn't know how to read him because of that is that still true or are you more aligned on reads now? | ||
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On May 22 2019 21:05 VisceraEyes wrote: Town motivations: - Town often switch their reads based on their own thread actions and interactions. Could just be town and I'm wrong about being fake. - Could be trying to stay alive by making the mafia think he's dumb? - Could be a power role trying to dodge a bullet? Mafia motivations: - Town often switch their reads based on their own thread actions and interactions. Could be mafia faking town? - Could be trying (lol) to turn thread sentiment against me? - Could be faking trying to stay alive? uuuuuuggghhhhhh Why are people playing in an intentionally difficult way? Just play the same as you do during the day, Jesus fucking Christ. do you think his case on BC is legit (AKA would town Artanis do that)? Do you agree with it? What's your read/take on Calix ATM? | ||
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On May 22 2019 21:14 VisceraEyes wrote: God it reminds me of that time I switched off Sandroba. Do you remember that shit? I bet Bugs does. Ugh....I remember last game when Bugs was not dumb OR mafia. He's one of the two this game and it's so fucking annoying. uhh I definitely was dumb last game, no idea what you're talking about here | ||
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He was still in the thread at that point??? | ||
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what in the On May 20 2019 18:20 Koshi wrote: Lol waste time. Tldr of all my posts so far: ... iGrok I dont understand the case about. ... On May 21 2019 06:36 Koshi wrote: Maybe kill spot 10 to 13. And iGrok. On May 22 2019 04:11 Koshi wrote: Igrok thinks bc, Calix and hf are mafia. Looks good. On May 22 2019 07:00 Koshi wrote: iGrok if you get yourself lunched over 100% Calix and 85% mafia BC.... Sad days bro. On May 22 2019 07:06 Koshi wrote: Ohh now he is mafia. When momentum swings to iGrok and you will do everyrhing for it to stay there. Oki On May 22 2019 07:11 Koshi wrote: I forgot my own list but dnu why I am here. It's mafia only. On May 22 2019 07:13 Koshi wrote: Oh wait. iGrok is on the list? Weird. Than I will just wait on flip. Dont think he can be mafia knowing my 5 other mafia reads are voting him bit w.e. | ||
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1. you don't believe Calix is mafia (or have you come to agree with rayn/koshi/whoever here?) 2. you don't believe BC is mafia 3. you don't believe I am mafia. 4. you believe iGrok is mafia. 5. you believe artanis could be mafia...? pretty sure we're up to that point, right? I actually agree with basically all of these reads though I'm waffly on both #4 and #5. Got any other scumreads? Koshi is town to you? | ||
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like even if conversion read into HF/Calix and/or believed iGrok's weird 1 scum out of 3 players thing, why would he ever vote on HF there when if he's mafia he could've just continued to afk? Like, iGrok chose to essentially waste his vote on HF. You could make the argument that if conversion and Calix are scum that's why he ensured the lynch on ruxxar, except that makes no sense because Calix not really ever in danger of dying there (she needed a minimum of two votes) | ||
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On May 22 2019 22:02 VisceraEyes wrote: This is fucking retarded. ALL of those reads are in my filter, literally all of them, except somehow you got that I don't believe Calix is mafia. The one changed read changes your view of me? All of a sudden I'm worthy of talking to and not trolling? Just leave me alone. Keep playing like a person and not something that lives under a bridge and we can start discussing this game again. I've tried to discuss things with you all game and you've consistently been pissy for no reason. Once I threaten to kill you for your takes that are completely incongruent with thread facts you seem to really perk up though. Just answer my question. I don't actually think you can believe iGrok and Calix are mafia at the same time here though. Feel free to make up a reason why that is or isn't the case, though. | ||
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do you scumread both iGrok and Calix or not? | ||
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On May 22 2019 22:10 Holyflare wrote: Do you mean specifically ve or everyone? I think it's more likely calix is if igrok is personally. Specifically VE. He said this: On May 22 2019 21:13 VisceraEyes wrote: OH I'M READY TO KILL HIM HF. Like I'm sorry I moved my vote, I THOUGHT it might hit simultaneously hit scum because I'm dumb and switch Bugs read of me because he's smart, but IT DID NEITHER AND I'M SORRY. and he also said this: On May 21 2019 23:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Can'tLynchWon'tLynch VE rayn Bugs BC Koshi Conversion ruxXar AwfulWaffle JockMcFlop HF CouldLynchWouldLynch iGrok Calix disformation Artanis I'm absolutely null on HF/Jock. He was town before, but after a reread I'm really not sure. He seemed more into actually convincing people to lynch other people last game, even as chaos reigned around him. He's content with the content in this thread. I don't know that it says anything about his alignment. Again, I refuse to try and read it yet. Jock is in a weird place like I said earlier, his effort/tone felt townie to me but now he's in here agitating and what looks like trying to get actives lynched...idk, I'm bumping it down to null. On the won't lynch side, there are townreads and one or two people that I'm iffy on but am willing to pass for today - ruXxar among them, BC and Bugs both being hard on him warrants a look tomorrow, but frankly I think he's fine for today. Calix being a lynch is the most dirty thing in my list I think. It goes against everything I believe right now - It's PoE, and I FUCKING HATE THAT, but it is what it is. I pseudo-agree that about half her posts seem contrived - I'm not typically one to niggle formatting but it really does look put on when she posts. Maybe it's the fact that her posts feel like they'd be fine without it, idk. But ya, agree with Koshi that it feels fake and could lynch it. This constitutes my entire read of the game. I can maybe explain some of it, other of it I'd have to look back and see why I think it. But this is where I'm at currently, in the name of trying to figure out the best lynch today. and he literally JUST said this: On May 22 2019 22:02 VisceraEyes wrote: This is fucking retarded. ALL of those reads are in my filter, literally all of them, except somehow you got that I don't believe Calix is mafia. The one changed read changes your view of me? All of a sudden I'm worthy of talking to and not trolling? Just leave me alone. Keep playing like a person and not something that lives under a bridge and we can start discussing this game again. with a strong implication that he did indeed flip his read on Calix from town to scum sooooo why is VE just not answering this simple question | ||
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To the best of my recollection he hasn't proactively asked me OR BC a single question in what...72+ hours?? How is that even possible if he started the game out townreading both of us the same way he saw us last game?? | ||
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On May 22 2019 22:20 VisceraEyes wrote: Jesus now it's a buzzing, does anyone else hear the buzzing?! man when BC reenters the thread and affirms that I'm not bullshitting your last resort will be to call us both scum. It's too bad you thought you could get away with fucking me here | ||
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On May 22 2019 22:24 VisceraEyes wrote: LOL omg ur right this is fun my bad. Bugs I still PoE Calix, but Conversion dropped in my estimation too so that PoE is weaker. It doesn't make Calix look any BETTER, it just add more Ps to E, making it less likely BY DEFINITION that she's mafia. I don't have a strong read on Calix, she feels town to me, but not as town as my town reads so she's down in the bowels of my nulls/lynches. It's real simple and I'm trolling you because I never ever ONCE said that Calix wasn't on my radar, at least not that I remember. I have NO idea where you got the idea that my read on her switched. why does it seem like you have no interest in figuring out the game? If you townread both me and BC why is it that you never posed either of us any questions? | ||
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On May 22 2019 22:26 VisceraEyes wrote: I've been in here all morning trying to figure out the game. You're ignoring my posts. I haven't asked you questions because you're both doing a DECENT job (BC less so) of putting your thoughts into the thread. What do I need to ask? Why do I need your input? what on earth...how in the hell have I been ignoring your posts?? I've asked you multiple times what your scum reads are and you responded that you had full intention of sheeping yesterday because you said you had none. And the worst part is you didn't even say who you'd be willing to sheep, so not only did you not have any scumreads, you were essentially saying none of your reads were any good. since you had no proper scum reads for basically 80% of day 1, and you just said we were doing a "decent" job, you had absolutely 0 questions for EITHER OF US? like these were your posts from last game: On May 04 2019 01:49 VisceraEyes wrote: You think it's better or worse than a lynch on you? That's the question that matters currently. On May 01 2019 02:37 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah I've got a question - is your resistance to the Jock lynch intentional or circumstantial? Like, I get that you're suspicious of MZ or whatever, but you say MZ "smells blood in the water", does that imply that you think Jock is town? On May 01 2019 20:56 VisceraEyes wrote: What do you define as "good"? Preserving the number of town? Reducing the likelihood that we hit town with the lynch? To what end? If we don't use the lynch, mafia don't get reduced. That's the short and long of it. Mafia are NOT going to NOT kill someone, so no, I don't think we should no-lynch. where is even 1% of that this game? Like you even complained I was ignoring you last game too, which wasn't true there either, but at least you made a strong effort at responding to me and you mutually asked me a ton of questions even if you would occasionally get miffed which I completely 100% expect you to do | ||
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On May 22 2019 22:37 VisceraEyes wrote: You don't fucking care about the answers, you're just asking me questions to try and AHA at me some more, and I'm fucking DONE with you Bugs. If you persist I will disappear from the thread, skirt posting requirements and vote. Exclusively. I'm seriously so sick and tired of you right now I could fucking throw up. I'm seriously pissed off. You don't give a SHIT what I say, you're literally only trying to find more shit to confirm your bias. You're fucking wrong Bugs. Get over it. This is absolutely the LAST post I direct at you. fine, I'll let BC decide as if we are both town here we at least both agree that BC is town as well. which actually bothers me a lot because my read on BC has been faltering given the state of this game and if you are town here it would have been incredibly nice if you could have helped me sort that read out | ||
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On May 22 2019 22:41 disformation wrote: absolutely irrelevant reminder that bc's last action has been to omgus at everyone vaguely looking in his direction and gtfoing off. him "gtfoing" is not alignment indicative because BC is often very busy. I believe he's on EDT and he works a lot/works odd hours. When he rages that the thread is a pile of shit and he can't read it he really means it, and that's regardless of alignment. | ||
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On May 04 2019 05:17 BloodyC0bbler wrote: What a cluster fuck -_- Everything I just read screams of a town bugs vs a town HF. You two need to stop funneling eachother and take a step back and breathe ffs. TBH if you look based purely on activity since the flip the people based on absence that look the worst. Pandain Rels Me As we have all been mia. As much as me being at work then sleeping makes sense to me, enough people in mafia lie about why they aren't around to avoid the fos so meh. IMO the shit pandain did when he came back into thread did not exonerate him. He was a top lynch pick of more than 1 person and all hes done is appear to basically claim town cred then bounce. Given that I was already suspicious of him and the whole attempting to claim town cred and vanishing looks slimy as fuck, hes red in my mind unless he can change my mind before he flips. The thing with rels. He was "inactive" in thread in the end of the world mafia when he and I were on a team together until he couldn't be anymore. Even then he tried to fly under the radar. However he was stupidly active in the mafia QT. as much as part of me wants to say hes red. Currently he just looks like he has 0 time and no motivation to play. As hes basically almost at the modkill point id leave him for that / wait and see if he appears just long enough to skirt the posting / voting requirements. Also just quoting this for my own future thoughts based on how flips play out as the post stood out as a glaring wtf all of todays posting I was reading. out of the two of us I'm not the person who struggled to read BC last game. Try again. + Show Spoiler + TBF I am waffling on him in this game but this game is a lot different than last one | ||
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On May 22 2019 22:53 Koshi wrote: Bugs can you make a >75% town list? this is sort of a silly question there are 3/11 scum so "null" is actually 73% town but anyway: Towniest to least myself Jock HF disformation conversion rayn calix --- here is about 80%, so everything above is townreads BC (I've been moving him up and down recently but before the flip was solidly above this line-now it's about 50-80%) Koshi Artanis iGrok VE If I'm wrong on BC then VE and Artanis basically go straight to town, Calix would look worse, etc. I doubt iGrok & Calix are town-town though it's remotely possible, and I strongly believe there are 1-2 scum in BC Artanis VE. | ||
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I think the lynch tomorrow needs to be between either iGrok & Calix or VE/Artanis/BC. Unless we have a jailkeeper on Jock he's probably dead, and that flip doesn't tell us anything. VE is townread by both rayn and HF and really only me & BC & Artanis have called VE scum this game. OTOH multiple people have called BC scum, and basically no one besides maybe VE thinks I'm scum (Artanis has me as null...?). The sort of oddball reads when it comes to the set of iGrok & Calix are VE's and HF's, who I think might be the only two players who have mentioned that iGrok and Calix might possibly be scum together (like VE thinks iGrok is scum and has reasons to think Calix is town but he's in his list on POE). Otherwise it seems that there's a pretty clear polarization between them. Optimal play seems to just be to kill iGrok. Artanis/BC also seem to be fairly polarized and not sure if anyone actually believes they're both scum or both town here. Artanis's reads are also rather oddball because he puts BC & VE & Calix all together and I'm not sure anyone else thinks that. | ||
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hmm | ||
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or at least I feel like I remember that sentiment was thrown around ok w/e. Too much thinking. | ||
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On May 21 2019 21:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Fuck. I need to sleep. Currently Voting for VE. Although I may be seeing ghosts so I need to think on it a bit / re read his filter. If hes not who we decide to lynch. At this point id still be down for Artanis Disinformation Ruxxar. I will clearly update / reevaluate based on whatever is posted while im gone but those 4 would be my preferred lynch priorities He literally lists Artanis as the FIRST choice before disfo/ruxxar, after just saying he is confused about VE. I can totally get him reacting very strongly to Artanis then jumping on a vote on him. I’m actually deducting town points from both disformation and Artanis for not correctly reading this and using it as an opportunity to scum me instead Lastly, on the disappearing thing: go ahead and look at the times I’m absent from the thread. It is 7 am here in Japan. I referred to ruxxar disappearing on multiple occasions after myself or other players would direct messages at him shortly after he posted in the thread. These are different types of disappearances, and that both rayn and disformation are trying to scum me for it is highly suspicious. Well, I guess not on rayn’s part because rayn just has a hard-on for calling me stupid and twisting everything I say in that direction. | ||
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So basically fuck you artanis. I tried to keep people off you so you could come back and at least do something. I give next to 0 fucks you chose to filter dive me cause well its at least productive but for you to completely read the thread wrong means you skim read, didnt read, or chose to fabricate shit. ESPECIALLY when you filter dive me. Is literally 100% true from what BC did. He mentioned he was giving both iGrok and Artanis a pass, which I was also doing. If either iGrok or Artanis came into the thread after I had stuck my neck out for them and scum read me I’d probably have done the exact same thing as BC | ||
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On May 23 2019 07:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I didn't know May 21 2019 21:08 was before May 20 2019 22:22 in your calendar, WBG. Did you scumread BC before you voted him? Because if you did then I honestly just didn’t remember that, all I remember is that I ignored you for a while since your vote was on me and you were mostly AFK so why would I bother reading you. If you did indeed scumread him before then my apologies, I’m wrong and BC OMGUSed you. Not sure that makes him scum or that his assessment of the situation from his perspective is scummy given that I agreed with it. | ||
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On May 20 2019 22:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote: BC is on my radar. A lot of posturing in here, as well as a strawman. HF fakeclaiming has nothing to do with claiming a wrong name for a role. The two situations are incomparable. Also, what is he actually accomplishing with this? He's making a general statement without bothering to follow up on who transgressed in the way he mentioned. "Anyone who liked HF for his claim comments should want to kill HF instead". What? And then anyone who liked him for things after is in the clear? When did we suddenly switch from talking about HF's alignment to the alignment of these unnamed players? Speaking of thread sentiment, how about piling onto a post everyone's already piled up on? Seems like a good strategy. He's being wordy on a post people have already gone into detail about. Pretty easy. Says basically nothing. In this quote thread, BC comes out with the following reads on people listed: Rayn - Null - possible town HF - null to scum Jock - null to scum And no read on me. If everyone's nullish, what could possibly be interesting on this streak that he wants to get reads on others off on? I don't get it. I’m guessing you mean this, yeah? | ||
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On May 23 2019 07:20 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I r back now and fuck, sorry guys. The way Ruxxar was playing I thought the read was right =\ Even if my voted wasn't on him, my read still played a huge part in his death. As for the newest events of the last 20 pages or so. No Bugs, after al that has been said and done, I wont be agreeing to kill VE. I voted for him (briefly) for the same reasons I started to lose my read of HF in the last game. Having time to sit back, think, and reflect I just can't kill him atm. Looking at the thread trying to be impartial again to avoid the tunnel mentality and the adversity from contrary reads VE looks good. and his reasonings for the slight changes between games makes sense. Can't kill him as of yet. Looking at the thread now, especially during the night phase. I would say this. Rayn, HF, VE, Koshi (i hate saying this), all look decent and should be where any protective roles we have be sitting. As much I know that I am on that list because I know that I am 100% town, given that basically no one else thinks so, leave me to potential bullets. Bugs, and I personally would say Jock, basically lives in the same zone that I am. That leaves everyone else. There is enough consensus now on Artanis that although the way I got my initial read on him was completely stupid, he has continued to post in a way that I still think is mafia. Plus the people who seem to be playing better than me agree on it so I feel a bit more sure. the other 2 I feel are scattered between Callix, Igrok, Conversion and Disinformation. Im trying to avoid tunneling like I have been, because I can see that I have been now. I need to reread Calix and Igrok as through tunneling artanis, ruxxar and disinformation I more or less left them by the wayside. Has VE directly asked you any questions this game? Feel free to elaborate on your answer as you see fit. | ||
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If anyone has questions for me feel free to throw them out, I’ll do my best to not miss them when I do come back. | ||
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Like I stopped caring what his alignment is and it’s so frustrating that he’s still allowed to enter games and do this garbage. I’m going to quote VE here because it encapsulates my thoughts perfectly On July 09 2016 07:24 VisceraEyes wrote: It doesn't matter I won't be back. I'm not requesting a ban for you this game and I don't knew why anyone but me would. Like you can say it's sad and I'm a drama queen all you want, but it's not just about this game. It's every game you are in. You are a poison element in this community. IF you give a shit at all about this community, stop being a dick every game. You are killing TLMafia. The maybe 2? Games I played with Koshi back then were a huge factor in me taking a large hiatus from TL Mafia. It actually made me reflect a lot on the times I myself have been toxic, and I really really hope I’ve never been perceived anywhere near as toxic as Koshi is this game, to the multitude of players he’s been toxic to. Like I get it, not getting the lynch you want is frustrating. But this is on another level. If I ever play here again I’m going to ensure he’s not in the playerlist, and if I ever host again I’m banning him. I don’t actually care if that means I never play here again despite how much I actually like playing with the rest of you, even rayn. | ||
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I’ve reached no conclusions yet and I fully intend to post very little, and when I do post I intend to do it in a more consolidated manner. I’m thinking of just taking very long breaks since I was very tilted and frustrated having to read loads and loads of filler and repetition. I’m not sure if I really feel like answering anyone’s questions today but feel free to send them at me if you want a chance at me providing some input. I was a strong defender of both Jock and Calix yesterday. On Calix I would liken my confidence till now to be somewhere in between my confidence last game on Pandain & Jock—not as confident as I was willing to call Pandain town when I was on the chopping block, but definitely more confident than day 1 when I was apathetic to Jock being lynched and sheeped the wagon to get it over with. However I’m not going to bother defending Calix today as I just want to sit and observe which stances others are taking. There have been too many people calling Calix scum for me to defend her, I could literally just be wrong esp. when I was tunneled on a townie all day. I think rayn is not going to have much of an influence on the lynch because based on what I’ve observed he doesn’t care about influence as much as he cares about coming to conclusions he thinks are right and then holding them forever. This seems to be true even when he’s wrong, like earlier how he half-jokingly called grackaroni 2nd towniest from last game when Pandain voted Vivax with him d1, VE vigged a scum, BC nailed grack and got shot n2 for it, and Pandain & slam correctly identified grack on the final day. So I’m confident if the wagon moves away from Calix rayn will just keep screaming that she is scum ad nauseum. He did this with jock yesterday and then just moved back to Calix when that didn’t pan out. OTOH he berated HF for not “cleaning up the thread” or whatever and while I think this is a completely self-unaware thing for rayn to say (maybe not self-unaware if he is scum though), I do myself want to see HF take action here and fight for the lynch he thinks is best. Hopefully that should help us read HF more clearly—HF told me to not consider him a town leader yesterday so now I’m forcing him to own it. This takes care of two birds with one stone as I think we should judge rayn on the basis of his reads if that’s the only thing he wants to do, and we should judge HF on the basis of his thread control and what he does with it when there are lynch and conversation control vacuums. Neither of them are slam dunk town reads for me ATM even though HF is probably still my strongest, so my hope is that they will both be solidified reads for me by EOD. I fully expect Calix, iGrok, BC, and Artanis to fight each other today and I’m wiping my slate entirely clean of every read I have there and am just going to sit back and watch for a while since my presence and involvement has not been helpful thus far, and my reads have been a bit in off-world territory. Again, if I’m feeling like it I might entertain questions, though I probably will only pop in periodically today as I want to spend more time away from the game to refresh. I’m not in a clear mental state to deal with it atm. I’m also going to hold my vote until I feel like it because I want to see what happens if I am basically completely absent. Here’s a secret message just for Jock: + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2019 14:59 Jockmcplop wrote: I've got another real busy day today so I won't be around much until late tonight (again)/tomorrow. Everyone should vote artanis. Particularly VE, Koshi, BC and Bugs who all have him as a major scumread. I actually really appreciate your enthusiasm and your observation here so please don’t feel disappointed for my lack of enthusiasm for lynching into Artanis/BC at this very moment. I reread both of them and on an independent basis I found them both rather townish, but as I mentioned I’d rather read them from scratch from today because they’ll have to take harder stances now. Here’s what I observed when I did reread: Both of them have done things I don’t like—BC having a very weird progression on Calix as mentioned multiple times, he and I actually disagreed on this read even though we agreed on ruxxar and both gave Artanis and iGrok temporary passes for most of d1. We also disagree on VE which I find strange because he was happy to vote VE and it’s not clear to me when he started scumreading VE to when he stopped scumreading VE. OTOH I don’t really see major tonal or behavioural differences between what he’s done last game and this game. Artanis is basically only attacking BC, and his reads list has a lot of weirdness, like I think VE — BC — Calix is remotely possible but really incongruent with a lot of events, like Calix encouraging Koshi to vote BC at deadline instead of her, BC scumreading Calix and ruxxar out of the gate, etc. I also think his push on me was very strange and even though he stopped scumreading me it doesn’t seem like he has any interest in interacting with me to strengthen that read, he just put me in a nullpile after saying he was annoyed with my reactions. Why would he be annoyed with my reactions and why would he stop when I’m just null? OTOH on tone I read Artanis townish and my recollection is that he is updating his progressions based on events and his interaction with others seems genuine. That outweighs the weirdness above for me and puts me at about a moderate townlean for Artanis. As an addendum while I townread both of the above, my senses still tingle on VE but any time I mention him he jumps down my throat and assumes the worst. He did this to you, BC, and HF yesterday as well so it wasn’t just me, but I got it the hardest esp. since he actually voted me earlier in the day. I want to see if he’s in a better mood to talk today and if he’s happier to talk and help figure out the game then I’ll be happy too. Maybe you’ll have better luck talking to him because now he can’t get mad at you for being scum | ||
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For this analysis, unless explicitly mentioned, when I talk about "player(s)" I will not include myself. A lot of players, myself included, seem very confused about the state of this game. However, every player has taken at least one hard stance on their own merits, all with their own reasons...except for three players. One of those three players is on the lynch list for today. The other two are "off-world" reads that only two, maybe three players have really at any point scumread. I don't know how I feel about that yet but thought I would throw this observation in the thread. Anyone who can correctly identify which 3 players I am talking about, cases and votes one of them without waffling wins town points in my book. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On May 23 2019 20:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote: First, why I'm not as sold on BC anymore. He's significantly dialed down his aggression in general when there's no real reason to and is giving opinions on a lot of things. It's this sequence of posts: The content is partially important, but more so is the tone. As mafia there'd be no reason to do anything but keep the focus on me with thread sentiment on his side. He also seems to be working with people to actively try and get a read on them. The tone is just so different from earlier and there was no pressure on him to change, really. All the people accusing him were considered null at best. As for why WBG: Same tone thing, but very differently. When HF accused me of something that was wrong, this was how he replied: Extremely transparent, acknowledges his reasons for reading me were inaccurate and.. that's it. He doesn't arrive at a conclusion immedately because it's not necessary. Contrast that with Bugs regarding me accusing BC: Makes an incorrect statement. Expands on statement, showcases its importance regarding reading me and disfo. Did not check the validity of said statement. "Oh I was wrong, but it doesn't change my BC read!" The focus is much more defensive and closed. Then the most recent post made above feels to me like he's trying to stay 'above' the discussion. Get people to guess at his little game to get free townreads.. it doesn't feel like he's critically trying to think of the game, but just filling up space whilst sitting on the sidelines. ##Vote wherebugsgo nice try but too much stretch. You might want to reread what I said, slower this time, and take it at face value rather than assuming I'm scum before reading it. 1. This hinges on me remembering one thing wrong, and then admitting that I was wrong, being a scumtell. Of course that's silly, unless you expect town me to have a photographic memory. All this while I am lying in bed, phoneposting, about to fall asleep, wondering what to think about something weird I remembered. Don't believe me? Check the time stamp. 2.The second post proves I am not lying that my best recollection was that your first read of BC was when you cased him. What proof? The fact that I wrote "before Artanis cased him" when I woke up and again checked the thread. 3. It feels to you like I'm trying to stay above the discussion because I literally said that's my intention. I don't want to be an active participant in the thread today because being an active participant in the thread yesterday was not helpful for me to solidify enough reads, and today I want to see who takes hard stances without me convincing them to take hard stances, cause that's not really a hard stance if it's me convincing them. Lastly, for bonus points, I decided I'd respond to this too: On May 23 2019 04:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: WBG maybe? His thread policing without really taking any hard stances himself feels like he's just keeping his options open right now. He's also just pointing out a bunch of things without following up on his thoughts. Okay, what are you doing with this? Was untrue, didn't check and just checked out. I need to dig into him further though. 1. "without really taking any hard stances" <- right, I didn't take any hard stances when I moved mountains at EOD to get four people to sheep me on my read of ruxxar, in order to, you know, get my top scumread lynched. Nor did I take any hard stances when I was literally the only person hard defending both Jock and Calix for a majority of the day. Nor did I take any hard stances when koshi/rayn asked me for a full read of the game, or when I literally posted my spreadsheet for everyone to read. I think perhaps you may also be implying that because I've said, plainly and clearly, that I intend to stay on the sidelines today, that also means I don't intend to take any hard stances today, which is just silly because I never said that: I just said I'm not going to take any new hard stances right now. 2. See prior explanations for not checking, and in addition: Saying "w/e. Too much thinking", while phoneposting, prior to going to sleep is of course a great indication that I have an intention to double check that immediately, rather than let the players who shared the sentiment that BC OMGUSed Artanis check it and either correct me or back me up while I'm asleep. Cause my intention is to do...what exactly? Make myself look scummier? Or perhaps it makes more sense that town me would want help in achieving clarity on this from someone who did share that sentiment, during a period when I know I will not be able to check myself? | ||
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On May 23 2019 22:15 Conversion wrote: I'm just gonna address this here and now, whether that's for you or anyone else: I am ignoring everyone that doesn't do anything memorable to me, and I'm spending like the maximum that I can on this game without going insane, because in the past when I tried my hardest I'd just get flamed and that usually devolved into shitfights with people. It almost happened with Jock this game (sorry for being a flamer Jock!). also doesn't help that when I case something people barely have opinions on it and don't engage me. They just tell me I'm doing well, or that I'm wrong, and that's it. I'm not going to flame people to get my opinions heard, and if people aren't going to engage me on shit (especially when I thought I made two good cases and there was like 3 responses to it), it just demotivates me from my game. In fact, the only one who really engaged me this entire game are like Bugs, Calix, and Jock-- which is why I'm inclined to believe they are town rather than every one speaking around me like I don't exist tl;dr I don't want to play like I normally do (flaming everyone that scumreads me, flaming my scumreads, modkilling myself because I'm pissed off), but damn is it demotivating to have people just speak around you alright, I couldn't resist, I pronounce to you all, my first read of today. I basically consider you confirmed town for this post. I mean, I already invited you to my circle so it can't get much better than this. If you have any questions for me, I'll play with you. Also, I want you to read tl.net and let me know your thoughts on that little game. You won't get anything from me for playing or even winning, unfortunately, because you've already won in my book, but maybe you'll get something for yourself. You mentioned memorability. I agree, memorability is good. Whose takes have not been memorable? I think I know, and I think you know as well. If knowledge aligns, then we're probably not wrong together. | ||
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tl.net aka #2565 | ||
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1. Artanis attacked me for getting a supposedly easily fact-checkable thing wrong about who between he and BC accused the other first. 2. Artanis said I took no hard stances which implies he doesn’t know how ruxxar died and how Calix lived. Or, for that matter, which players took hard stances on Jock before Jock basically became confirmed. My game on #2495 is still open to play however both of my (almost) confirmed town reads have basically won it already. | ||
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This post contains only facts and no reads. 1. Artanis attacked me for getting a supposedly easily fact-checkable thing wrong about who between he and BC accused the other first. 2. Artanis said I took no hard stances which implies he doesn’t know how ruxxar died and how Calix lived. Or, for that matter, which players took hard stances on Jock before Jock basically became confirmed. My game on #2565 is still open to play however both of my (almost) confirmed town reads have basically won it already. | ||
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On May 24 2019 07:16 disformation wrote: which post? guess you mean the one by art. also pretty easy guess that the one player of calix/grok/art you think is scum is art. with the two outlandish ones im not sure. just for being outlandishish id say like hf/koshi? dunno man. though that would maybe explain why this game is this wild? “This post” = the one I just posted. “Artanis said” = post where he cases (?) me. 2495 meant 2565, the game I’m hosting within this game. I will make an addendum to the game and say that after my previous post I have added an additional player who I think may fit the criteria, but it wasn’t true/obvious until recently. And it also changes the number of people who might be involved in today’s lynch from 1 to 2. | ||
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On May 24 2019 07:31 disformation wrote: also was pretty recent. -.- might have fucked up my reads. -.- aight. think i want to look at the game for real tomorrow. might be more productive than me looking at filters n shit. Three more fact additions. You are actually one of the four players who fit my criteria, and I believe neither HF nor Koshi fit. Remember that I don’t know entirely how I feel about my little game yet, though I will admit in your case the rest of my evidence not based on my little game points me in the exact opposite direction. | ||
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On May 24 2019 01:21 Jockmcplop wrote: Like I'm trying to find reads you've made on people that aren't 100% waffle and there's a few but not many. The main reason I started looking into this is because this is as far as I got with my spreadsheet yesterday: swap columns B and K for me. While you’re at it, you can shade in B as solid green. | ||
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Also I felt a lot of deja vu reading your response to Jock and me calling you out for surface level things last game. I realized I was getting very close to calling you scum yesterday for the exact same reasons I called you scum last game (and I believe you noted this during the night, you know the post I'm talking about even if I don't point it out explicitly), and then I held my tongue because of the way you actually agreed with my assessment but flipped town anyway LOL. | ||
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On May 24 2019 10:53 Holyflare wrote: I have literally no idea what your little game is in those two posts but I don't think I really care either? I'm just going to put the effort in to people's filters and figure this out for myself now that I have the time. Half the people in the game are literally afk and leaving it stale, you included really. Disfo/Conversion/Jock are like MVPs for today and I don't think I'd ever vote them for the rest of the game. Chuck VE in there too and they are my new town circle. Everyone else is fair game in my books now. Starting a clean slate. It's fine, if you don't have the time for it now I'll end up explaining it all later today anyway. You can put the pieces together at that point by reading my filter once rather than multiple times so it'll save you some effort. I'm AFK on purpose, and honestly I'm very happy with it because I'm way less tilted and I feel very confident that this game is on lock right now. Your town circle basically my town circle and it should be obvious after reading my posts where we differ. That's really why I want you to listen to what I'm saying and come to your own conclusions before I explain myself, and also get back to me on rayn/Koshi because I believe I'm seeing more to the day 1 vote business. I fully believe we're seeing the same picture, just different parts of it, and I don't want to heavily influence your opinions before I hear them. | ||
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On May 24 2019 11:01 Holyflare wrote: Is it some old vet thing to for some reason not play open handed and actually reveal your reads or some shit? Seems like really bad practice to me, just say what you mean and we'd all be in a better place. I think it was far more common back in the day among the players I consider really really really good at town. Like, the top two townies I've ever played with, in my opinion, are Foolishness and Radfield, and Foolishness posts so little that he often becomes lynchbait. I talked with him before because I wanted to learn his philosophy and how he's so good, and so confident when he has a read, and IIRC he told me about how he wouldn't push his ideas until he'd had a lot of time to read, and because he often couldn't tell by EOD1 he'd just sit back and wait and watch interactions. Eagle-eyed townies would be able to engage with him (because he'd channel Chezinu sometimes, and observant townies could tell, I guess, he's on their side) and if scum didn't kill him N1 he'd often have at least one certain read on d2. I struggle with this because unlike Foolishness my scum game has a reputation for being good (and my town game, rightly, a reputation for being ass), and people think my style is very unique so they'll lynch me if I don't play actively. When I play town I value being viewed as innocent and not getting lynched way more than I value finding scum. This is also why I've smurfed so damn much; I've made so many smurfs that I've forgotten some of their names and emails, but basically I smurf to try and emulate different playstyles and see how they work for me without getting lynched for playing out of band. | ||
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I noticed that when I play scum I have an irrational fear of being vigged but absolutely no fear of being lynched. Then when I get lynched I end up reactionarily blaming my teammates because I couldn't carry them, even in situations where I probably screwed up interacting with them in a subtle way or I suggested a weird NK because I'm whacky and I don't believe NK choices are all that important when playing scum. However I think I've been vigged/SK killed like 2-3 times, at least once by a person I thought was a shitter and once in a game called Responsibility Mafia that I'll never forget where I got shot by a "spam vigi" and raged about 1. how subjective that is for the hosts to be the final determiners and 2. how many god damn KP town had in postgame. OTOH as town I don't have any fear of being vigged at all but I have a supreme fear of being lynched for whatever reason. I think I've been vigged once when I was a JK on N1, I only remember because of how rarely I roll blue roles. I think I've been lynched once or twice for dumb reasons and I got into arguments with Palmar about how I don't believe that being lynched is always 100% without a doubt the fault of the person being lynched. Anyway none of this probably means anything but maybe that gives you more insight on my philosophy of the way I play. | ||
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On May 24 2019 11:20 VisceraEyes wrote: Bugs if you spent 3 posts and 7 paragraphs self-reflecting on your own play as mafia, I'll eat my hat. was it you or someone else I told I sort of irrationally hate playing scum after some of the setups I've been dropped into like I swear some of the luck I've gotten when rolling scum is just... Space Station Mafia -> there were 16 (??) blues or items or whatever? And it was a PM game where sandro coordinated DT checks. And, in order for my team (mafia) to use the items or whatever, IIRC, we had to give up KP. And it's not like we could lie about things we did either because we'd be steadily confirming townies or having to bus each other. I think literally the best scenario possible after d1 was for us to kill 2 townies and for only one scum to be vigged/DTed. Pretty sure the worst case was for all 6 of us to die n2, I think it was pretty close and we lost the game d3 or n3. And then DrH wouldn't admit that the setup was broken as hell and basically claimed that if he were in my situation he would've done better lol Then responsibility mafia and the vigis And then I rolled mafia with RoL twice or maybe three times and he would ignore literally any suggestions I had in QT, even when I told him I believed 100% by continuing what he was doing he'd get us both killed. Sure enough both times we got lynched LOL. I think one was team melee and the other was Storm Mafia or something like that | ||
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No I played in resurrection though and you made me some sort of priest, and I hounded scum Jackal. I think with sandroba leading we solved the game really fast, bum and ON were scum too I think? And I called town Ace a noob even though it was my second game LOL. What’s crazy is that game was not full alignment reveal on permanent death right. That actually made it really really interesting idk how I somehow got 50 billion times worse at town after that game though, maybe just beginner’s luck Like the first two times I played mafia on this forum I rolled blue and basically only that JK game ever since I think. | ||
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Lolololololol | ||
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On May 24 2019 15:27 iGrok wrote: Ok, so first, rebutting HF's nonsense. ##vote HF So he starts with my fake vote on rayne. I am literally not allowed to discuss that, sorry. HF will continue, throughout his entire takedown piece, bring up my initial rux/diso statement, even when I change my read after reading more. -I'm pretty sure HF doesn't understand the concept of -not tunnelling-, or (as I really think) he's scum. Or both Then he posts my "read" of Calix. The thing about my "reads" is that unlike most people, I'm not making a case. I give my thoughts. a lot is lost when I copy/paste. I'll include a picture of the map, with colors etc + Show Spoiler [blue doesn't mean blue, mafia.…] + Next, HF quotes the same post twice, somehow thinking he's trapped me by making me work after I said I was time limited. This is just... bad. HF is very upset that I called him dumbtown. Honestly, I shouldn't have called Calix potentially dumbtown. I was a little frustrated that I hadn't caught that, if I had more time to focus then maybe I wouldn't have been frustrated. HF also apparently doesn't understand what its like to not just tunnel someone. I hope that one day, I can be like as HF and have 100% confidence that I am always right the first time, every time. Finally, concludes with accusing me of being mafia because I'm not in the thread. The "Where's his head at?" made me laugh. For all his filter diving of me, he still can't tell that I'M AT A FUCKING 12 HOUR/DAY INTENSIVE SEMINAR FOR WORK. As I've said. Multiple times. And no one else seems to have an issue figuring that out. Also, yeah the best vets were basically day 2 monsters. The meta now seems to be to Tunnel someone until they crack, and spam the shit out of the thread, but back then that was the rare exception (Palmar for example). I'm nowhere near as good as foolishness, radfield, Ace, Dr.H etc - but I think a lot of people then wanted to emulate their playstyle. I haven't played in a while, and my plan for any game where I don't know a lot of the players is to be as open as I can, and just convince them I'm town. I believe day 1 is mostly just about stirring shit up, read generation as I said before. Unfortunately I'm not allowed to talk about what my plan was day 1, and I literally can't say more than that. But yeah, none of this was for HF, this is for everyone else. Now, I've got 1 more day of seminar, and then a red-eye flight home. I'll still be reading, and commenting occasionally, but please don't fuck this up. Also, Conversion if I see you in LA, remember, no talking about the ongoing game + Show Spoiler + so like, let's say you're town right, and you've done all this effort to make these graphs and notes and whatnot, which I think none of us can read because it's too blurry but I can believe that if you're town you've done lots of stuff away from thread. but at the same time you've done all this scummy stuff which HF has pointed it out, and I'm mostly in agreement with it being really bad, especially your EOD business where you listed 3 pairs of players: ruxx and Calix ruxx and HF HF and Calix and said for some reason each of those pairs has at most 1 scum but you townread ruxxar (maybe?? I really didn't understand the logic) and thus HF is the scum and wasted your vote (??) Like first of all, that didn't make any sense. But second of all, as far as I can tell your read on Calix didn't change and you knew you'd never get HF lynched, you even said that yourself. So why did you let your townread ruxxar die instead of killing Calix who by your own logic was still scummy? Like that's the key here, you have to explain why you said you'd never get HF lynched yet you still voted him and in the process you let a townread get lynched over Calix. You were around for the flip too because you told me off right after. Why wouldn't you either switch your vote back when it was clear no one was agreeing with or understanding you, or try an alternate approach to convincing me that HF was scum? Lastly you type this rebuttal and vote HF but there is no explanation for why HF is scum and not just a tunneled or incorrect townie. It's just "he's tunneling me and wrong therefore he's scum" which is honestly not a very convincing argument. And actually your language waffles between implying that he's tunneled town and scum and looks like you just did a poor job of hiding TMI, but maybe I'm reading too much into that. It's not like pure effort on the basis of your notes and stuff exonerates you here either even though it looks townie to me because literally every player in the game has put in a good amount of effort in some capacity, even if it's pure posting volume like rayn/koshi, besides perhaps BC/Artanis and the townie who I got lynched yesterday. | ||
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On May 24 2019 22:08 VisceraEyes wrote: Bro I've never called HF mafia and he called me mafia. I've similarly never been red on Bugs. On May 19 2019 21:48 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Vote: wherebugsgo | ||
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On May 24 2019 16:19 Jockmcplop wrote: Bugs if ur still here I have a question about hf. You said that in the last game you scumread hf in a similar way to how I did yesterday. On reflection, would you say that hf delibreately put you in that position? I mean if we're to read into this what he wants us to he infers he's using that to confirm townies. I don't exactly see how scum hf couldn't act in exactly the same way though. If you’re not jock and you expect reads in this post, nope none here keep moving. However if you’re confused on my alignment and want more of my thoughts read on if you wish. + Show Spoiler + So he was town last game and the answer to “did HF deliberately put me in a position where I would scumread him” is idk, but I kinda felt like regardless of my own alignment I would have called him out there. (If I were scum I’d probably have RB-hit him n1 though) Like he did fake claim just to reaction fish which on its own I found weird, but then afterward he just kept looking worse, I disagreed with reads that I thought he should obviously nail, like still scumming Pandain for old, holdover reasons from d1 and HF was ignoring perfectly good info from Pandain that indicated he was town. Maybe he read too much into rayn dying after posting 3/4 townies as scum, idk. and there was a very rare confluence of events that I think might never happen again, like HF actually being a vet and then scumming me on the host question, me VE and BC all agreeing on him, etc. etc. etc. In the absence of all that garbage my initial read on HF was town and here he is not playing super out of band to his d1 last game. I also know his situation now as far as posting quality/amount so that’s no longer alignment indicative. HF this game should be judged on the basis of 1. his reads (note who he put in his bottom 4- (Not sure if I remember the most updated version though) if both iGrok and Calix are town the chances of HF being scum jump a lot, esp if he doesn’t use the rest of today to evaluate all his other reads, since he has more time today and iGrok is as good as dead at this point. None of VE/rayn/Koshi seem to be doing any actual pushing of Calix today either, so that’s something to be on the look for. However at this moment there is not much to do IMO other than observe or ask questions if you have doubts because the lines in the sand have been drawn. | ||
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On May 24 2019 22:54 Holyflare wrote: + Show Spoiler + You are all grown up people and can make a decision on whether or not Calix and iGrok are mafia yourselves based on the facts put forward and their responses, nothing to do with my alignment if I am correct or wrong either, just push what you think is the most valid case in all of the game to make someone mafia and hope. + Show Spoiler + I agree. Keep doing your thing. I don’t intend to move my vote but I do intend to keep observing. I think iGrok is a pretty beaten, dead horse now though. As long as he’s not here to defend himself let’s move on to other things. | ||
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The question was, why would scum iGrok spend so much time deciding between two townies at EOD. The implied answer is that he would never do this. Important fact #1: until two hours before deadline, iGrok had never put a vote in the voting thread. With that important context, the actual answer is that if he is scum, he may not want to be incriminated for a last minute vote on someone who is about to flip town. Therefore he wasted his vote because it guaranteed he wouldn’t be on the leading wagon (when both wagons were close enough at the time he voted for his vote to influence which wagon succeeded) You could say that as scum he could not predict which wagon would succeed and thus to what extent he felt he’d look bad. This is corroborated by the fact that he, immediately following the lynch, told me off for lynching his townread despite wasting his vote and not actually doing anything to prevent it. As town the only motivation that makes sense here is that iGrok made an extremely suboptimal, anti-town play. In this case it’s better to not assume he’s an idiot and just lynch him for the scum motivation because he’s played mafia long enough to not do something that colossally bad as town. | ||
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On May 24 2019 23:17 Calix wrote: That characterisation of my D2 play only applies to this RL day and is not true. I spent yesterday arguing with BC and VE until I changed my mind on them being mafia. I'm not sure why you expect everyone to be SUPER ACTIVE and CONTRIBUTING when there's not a lot to be said. Ever since I dropped two scum-reads, I've seen very little from the thread that would be useful to finding mafia. Also everyone thinks I'm mafia by POE or something. Yet nobody has bothered to case me so there's nothing for me to counter, lol. Someone go into my filter and say why I'm supposedly mafia, will ya? READS TOWN: Conversion, disformation, Jock, WBG, HF. I've already explained these reads, pretty sure, and none of these town reads are RADICAL anyway. For people who don't know why I town-read HF, consider that we've had similar opinions for PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRE GAME. If he's mafia then I am playing so horribly right now but I doubt it. NULL: Artanis: As per my previous posts, I think he made some decent posts early on but his WBG push was bad and he hasn't done much else of note. Could be mafia tapering off or town struggling. BC: I mostly think he could be town because of The Meta. As per my previous posts, I think I scum-read him more for NAI playstyle differences than actual mafia motivations. MAFIA: Koshi: I can see more reasons for my null reads being town than I can for Koshi being town, ergo he's likely scum again by POE. I even read the last few pages of his cancerous filter and saw nothing town. Also I cannot relate to the opinions he claims to have whatsoever. Meanwhile I can kinda see where most other players are coming from. iGrok: I agreed with HF's earlier points on him and his one substantial post today was horrible. rayn: Has not done anything all game, has said nothing smart, doesn't seem interested in solving the game, etc etc. Really have no idea why anyone town-reads him. Where do you put VE? | ||
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On May 24 2019 23:22 Holyflare wrote: oh boy a rayn/koshi/igrok team?? that's a really bold claim I think it's possible. If you townread VE, this makes more sense than Artanis/Calix/iGrok or whatever, and probably pushes into the "likely" territory. However I'd probably scum Artanis before either Koshi/rayn because I haven't actually read Koshi/rayn since mid d1 or so when Koshi long stopped being funny and rayn was forced to end his tunnel on Jock. (I was mostly ignoring them both even before then, but sporadically reading-I mostly only read their posts now if they're on the latest page) I think the only "makes sense" options for scum at this point are in this pile of players: iGrok Artanis VE rayn Koshi and sorry in advance bro, but, BC | ||
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On May 24 2019 23:25 Calix wrote: Lemme put it this way. He lacks any real conviction in his reads. For example, he 'town read' ruxxar and 'scum read' BC and I on Day 1. What does he do? Well he sure as hell doesn't push either of his scum reads. He just spammed 'Calix is mafia' and whined that nobody was listening to him. He didn't give valid, convincing reasons for town!ruxxar. He had the opportunity to switch his vote from moi onto BC [again, a guy he thinks has a high chance of being mafia] when BC was getting traction but Koshi did NOT switch. You will see the same pattern today. Today, he's said "lynch Calix" but not once has he made a legitimate push on me that would convince people to kill me. The same applies to his 'other scum read' HF. Nor has he made a convincing argument for town!iGrok aside from "omg no way would mafia hard-bus" He just kinda whines about how his 'town reads' are being voted over his scum reads yet does literally nothing to change the game state from that to something more favourable for town [in his eyes]. And the reason for that is because he doesn't actually care about killing mafia. he admitted so himself when HF challenged him to put up some opposition today. | ||
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Why do you townread VE? | ||
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On May 24 2019 23:36 Calix wrote: I did scum-read VE at one point but when I was catching up yesterday, I noticed VE was making smart comments that showed he was actually thinking about the game. And this was at a point where rayn was making dumb comments re: Conversion so it stood out even more. I'm not saying the 'smart comments' are townie in isolation. If I showed them to you, you would not understand why I think they're smart without context. But I do think that the 'not blindly going with whatever's in the thread' thing is a townie trait. Did you find any 'smart comments' that were made in the favour of someone looking scummier rather than townier? VE is an excellent scum player. If you solely find things you think are smart on the side of him defending a townread or making someone else less certain of a read, they're not alignment indicative. If you can find even a single instance of VE taking a hard stance for reasons he came up with himself this game I'll switch my reads to yours. | ||
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I take advantage of this as scum myself when I post a ton of things that basically just do nothing but make people less confident of their reads and rather than challenge them on logical grounds I challenge them on emotional ones. VE, by definition of being a good player, is no stranger to this tactic. For folks who are being actively challenged or only notice at a surface level that the challenges are being made, the pattern of anti-town motivation is not obvious because they aren't looking for it. At least, that's my take. | ||
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On May 24 2019 23:54 VisceraEyes wrote: You can make whatever call you want, you aren't going to be able to lynch me without strategically killing people in the night and it will be obvious that's what's happening Bugs. I'm not mafia, and you're never getting me lynched dude, think about something else! so you do scumread me | ||
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VE I nailed on you on a lie about scumreading me and #2495 is probably the single scummiest post anyone has made in this entire game. | ||
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On May 24 2019 23:58 Holyflare wrote: Can you explain it like I'm 5. Why is this post the scummiest in the game? look at VE's in-thread stated scum reads (or try to remember them off the top of your head) and then look at his day 1 votes. Then also look at where his day 1 vote ended. Then come back and explain it to me yourself. | ||
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On May 25 2019 00:00 Holyflare wrote: Hard pass. Why does this not apply to calix and igrok? when did I say it does not apply to iGrok? It clearly does, otherwise I 1. wouldn't be voting him, 2. wouldn't have posted several times already corroborating your case and 3. wouldn't try to rebut literally the only surface-level reason stated by anyone (rayn) for townreading iGrok based on his EoD behaviour in #3239 The same logic doesn't apply to Calix because she was defending herself from being lynched. | ||
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VE: "this reads as if he knows iGrok is town" how can you misread a one sentence post that hard | ||
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On May 25 2019 00:07 Holyflare wrote: No, she wasn't. She said she decided to town read igrok at deadline because she saw a townie trait in him (when he said he unvoted her to figure out the game). if you mean "no, she wasn't taking a consistent hard stance" then sure, I agree. If you mean "no, she wasn't defending herself in a town-consistent way," then I disagree. Her not taking a harder stance on iGrok on d1 is one small piece of evidence that if iGrok is scum, Calix could also be scum. I say it's small though because it does also make sense for Calix to swap the read as town, because she could legitimately have seen something that really made her think iGrok was town at that moment, and based on my ask of her to stop reading VE on "smart" things he's supposedly said, Calix seems to put a lot of weight behind these types of "towntells". I don't agree with this type of logic but it's not like I can prevent other players from using it, especially when it does seem to be a fairly useful heuristic if applied properly and consistently. I also read Calix's style as seeming to fall into the bucket of players who talk at their scum reads and then will back off if they receive a certain type/level of resistance, because IIRC she did this to me when I was scum against you and Calix last time (the only time?) I played with her. | ||
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On May 25 2019 00:09 VisceraEyes wrote: Lack of scumreads has never been an accurate way to read me sorry bubby you're just very very wrong here. You aren't even trusting BC, who you're hinging a lot fo your opinions on, you've got fucking blinders on. You WANT me to be mafia. And sorry baby, but we don't always get what we want. I have a desire to tally these types of mischaracterisations as they happen and I see them, but unfortunately if I do this the thread will continue to devolve rapidly. However I will make an exception this once and show everyone how big of a mischaracterisation this is, and how it's not supported by actual hard evidence whatsoever, because I know I am not relying on BC's reads at all this game and haven't really looked to him for any useful info for quite a while now, probably since early-mid D1. #1. Day 1 BC stated Calix was scum and I never shared this read. #2. BC put Jock on a watchlist which I misinterpreted as him calling Jock scum and I strongly disagreed with him immediately and never once moved my read closer to BC's. See BC's 448, my response at 449 and BC's counter response at #450 #3. BC scumread Artanis far before I did and my reason for scumreading Artanis was basically completely independent of BC scumreading him. Maybe the knowledge that BC and Artanis were attacking each other and I read BC fairly townish while I had passed on reading Artanis d1 tainted my read but I didn't actually scumread him until after I finished responding to and processing [https://tl.net/forum/mafia/547420-72-24-midnight-sun-mafia?page=129#2571]#2571[/url] in context of a full read of Artanis in light of his scummy case on me focusing on me misremembering something. #4. BC kept disformation in scum and conversion in null far longer than I did. To the best of my recollection I was pretty town on conversion by mid d1 and I slowly upgraded disformation over time as I watched his posting. I also never pushed disformation even though I offered him as a lynch candidate, and by the time I offered the candidates to VE I actually townread disformation as well. I have a note from day 1 that VE said we reached opposite reads on disformation/ruxxar after I publically stated that I was townreading disformation, yet he claimed I was calling him scum on the basis of not wanting to consolidate on the same targets I had presented. This made absolutely no sense at the time because the two main consolidation targets I offered were disformation and ruxxar, and if VE reached the opposite conclusion as me on both players he should have voted for disformation. #739 is me publically announcing I don't want to lynch disformation, #769 is me responding to VE saying he doesn't want to consolidate on my targets and that it's not scummy for him to do that, and #969 is VE admitting he came to the opposite conclusion on disformation as me. So if he reached the opposite conclusion on disformation why was he not willing to vote him earlier when I asked? and yes, as the one thing you haven't mischaracterized, several times now BC has told me that I should townread you and he never managed to convince me because I felt his opinion/feel was incongruent with facts. But now, with all the evidence, it's clear that it's actually more often that I'm disagreeing with BC than agreeing with him. Which is also why he's not particularly high on my townread list either. Higher than you, though, because I can actually rationalise his play from a town perspective and I can't rationalise yours. | ||
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On May 25 2019 00:09 VisceraEyes wrote: Lack of scumreads has never been an accurate way to read me sorry bubby you're just very very wrong here. You aren't even trusting BC, who you're hinging a lot fo your opinions on, you've got fucking blinders on. You WANT me to be mafia. And sorry baby, but we don't always get what we want. I have a desire to tally these types of mischaracterisations as they happen and I see them, but unfortunately if I do this the thread will continue to devolve rapidly. However I will make an exception this once and show everyone how big of a mischaracterisation this is, and how it's not supported by actual hard evidence whatsoever, because I know I am not relying on BC's reads at all this game and haven't really looked to him for any useful info for quite a while now, probably since early-mid D1. #1. Day 1 BC stated Calix was scum and I never shared this read. #2. BC put Jock on a watchlist which I misinterpreted as him calling Jock scum and I strongly disagreed with him immediately and never once moved my read closer to BC's. See BC's 448, my response at 449 and BC's counter response at #450 #3. BC scumread Artanis far before I did and my reason for scumreading Artanis was basically completely independent of BC scumreading him. Maybe the knowledge that BC and Artanis were attacking each other and I read BC fairly townish while I had passed on reading Artanis d1 tainted my read but I didn't actually scumread him until after I finished responding to and processing #2571 in context of a full read of Artanis in light of his scummy case on me focusing on me misremembering something. #4. BC kept disformation in scum and conversion in null far longer than I did. To the best of my recollection I was pretty town on conversion by mid d1 and I slowly upgraded disformation over time as I watched his posting. I also never pushed disformation even though I offered him as a lynch candidate, and by the time I offered the candidates to VE I actually townread disformation as well. I have a note from day 1 that VE said we reached opposite reads on disformation/ruxxar after I publically stated that I was townreading disformation, yet he claimed I was calling him scum on the basis of not wanting to consolidate on the same targets I had presented. This made absolutely no sense at the time because the two main consolidation targets I offered were disformation and ruxxar, and if VE reached the opposite conclusion as me on both players he should have voted for disformation. #739 is me publically announcing I don't want to lynch disformation, #769 is me responding to VE saying he doesn't want to consolidate on my targets and that it's not scummy for him to do that, and #969 is VE admitting he came to the opposite conclusion on disformation as me. So if he reached the opposite conclusion on disformation why was he not willing to vote him earlier when I asked? and yes, as the one thing you haven't mischaracterized, several times now BC has told me that I should townread you and he never managed to convince me because I felt his opinion/feel was incongruent with facts. But now, with all the evidence, it's clear that it's actually more often that I'm disagreeing with BC than agreeing with him. Which is also why he's not particularly high on my townread list either. Higher than you, though, because I can actually rationalise his play from a town perspective and I can't rationalise yours. | ||
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On May 25 2019 01:00 Calix wrote: Okay why are you not '100% sure'? Because it's getting annoying having people whine about how I might be mafia yet never doing anything to fix that. I think you should stop defending yourself. I really don't think defending yourself at this point is helping anyone read you. In fact, it's making it harder for me to maintain a read on you because you defend yourself so much even now when you are under no lynch pressure that it completely overshadows your reads. I have to struggle to recall your reads when more than half your posts are like this. | ||
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On May 25 2019 01:06 Conversion wrote: ok read HF's case. cool case. one thing that I don't like about iGrok is that he shows that he has thoughts about the game outside of Calix/HF. right there. Artanis is his lowest read, outside of them. He later admits that the HF lynch won't happen, but he still ends up voting HF. weird. now this day, Artanis has a pretty good momentum going for him, and he mentioned that since he knows he's 100% town, he'll vote people to save himself. But he keeps staying on HF??? Why isn't he spending time to case someone else and tunnels onto HF like it's going to get him anywhere, when he says in his filter himself that lynching HF won't get anywhere. why does he think it's going to get him anywhere now? unless you are about to whip out a townread on iGrok your time is better spent just voting him (look at the state of the game) and then talking about other things while you wait for iGrok to maybe come back and explain himself. Let iGrok defend himself before we continue to pretend like it's surprising that he's doing X scummy thing. My suggestion to you would be to finally get down to reading VE/rayn/artanis/BC properly and probably revisit your Koshi read and see if what you thought was scummy on d1 still applies today, keeping in mind to completely forget whatever you said about him calling you town or whatever because you already tainted the thread with that piece of information. Anyway, I'm off to bed for real now. | ||
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On May 25 2019 01:12 Conversion wrote: damn son, bugs going hard. TAINTED the thread with that information. I’m the poison killing town’s suspicions on Koshi my dudes not sure if you're joking or being serious so I'll take you for srs just in case :p by tainted the thread I mean Koshi and his team saw what you said and he's probably adjusted by now if he's scum | ||
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On May 25 2019 01:13 Calix wrote: I am just trying to get people to clear up their reads on me while this game is in a lull, not defending myself. And while I could try getting Koshi to do something, I don't think that'll get me very far. I feel like game is on pause because thread sentiment is so against iGrok that he's almost certainly going to die today unless he comes at us with a townie post. Which I doubt. Trying to push someone else won't do a lot because that person knows they're unlikely to die today. You could do what you are dreading and actually read VE, or at the very least read the posts I've made about VE because solving the game is more useful than sitting on your hands. I don't understand why you think you need to get Koshi to do more in order to get a better read on him when he's played like this for five IRL days and there is no sign of him stopping any time soon | ||
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iGrok if you are town you need to do a better job of explaining yourself. You’re still getting lynched at this rate because I can’t even read your blurry images so to me it seems like you don’t want people to read what you’ve written, if indeed you have spent some effort on the game. I can’t see a town motivation for that so if you can’t even do the common courtesy of copy pasting that into the thread then there is 0 chance of anyone moving their vote on you. I’m going to do something heroic and at least temporarily promote both Artanis and BC to townies so that I can get their opinions here. @Artanis[Xp] and @BloodyC0bbler: I know you’re both short on time and actually oddly enough this is why I really value both of your opinions at this stage in the game. 1. To BC: do you agree with the case on iGrok? 2. To both of you: can you again provide a list of all your reads? 3. I would appreciate if you take a moment to let me know what your recollection is of VE, rayn, and Koshi reading each other, when they reached said reads, and what led them to read each other in said way. Please give both your gut read based on memory and then whatever you can support with evidence. Also if you can comment on whether you’ve ever noticed any of the three of them have a constructive discussion with you or a townread of yours. By constructive, I mean an interaction where the player does not simply shoot down an idea, but instead either 1.) builds on it or 2.) asks a clarifying question when there is a clear disagreement. 10,000 arbitrary bonus points for either of these two scenarios: a follow up on a question and an unprompted, proactive question about a read that the player holds. Final caveat: anything to the other two does not count. Please write your response before reading the spoiler below. + Show Spoiler + I find it hilarious that VE and Koshi both basically instantly started distancing each other and VE started distancing rayn when I mentioned a second time the possibility of a VE/rayn/Koshi scum team. This actually happened for a brief moment by VE on both of them right around when Jock became confirmed god-town and then presumably stopped when no one actually scumread rayn in the aftermath. + Show Spoiler + I can guarantee the three of you that if even one of you is scum, you’re going to have to kill me in the next half cycle or you will be lynched. and if you are scum together, distancing or bussing each other at this point is futile because I have seen everything. The three of you have ridden each other’s dicks for 95% of the game so far and if you stop now when iGrok is still the lynch and no one is moving votes, you have TMI. Koshi I see you scumming HF, calling me bad and getting prepared to move to iGrok when you’ve now realized what I’m up to and that defending iGrok now is an indication of TMI. We are lynching iGrok today, and you know that if he flips town, I will never lynch HF. | ||
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On May 25 2019 04:00 iGrok wrote: Copy/pasting breaks all the formatting and leaves it illegible. I tried that originally, didn't work. Sorry. If you click on the image, it'll take you to the imgur site where you can see it full size. You may need to click it on their site to fully zoom in, but I promise its completely legible. Sorry but I'm just not going to format something twice. This doesn't make any sense. Good. It only makes sense to mafia who have TMI. Every townie in the game barring you if you are actually town should have agreed with the case on you. VE rayn and Koshi have had all the “correct” reads and literally 0 reasons. It basically feels like they are all channeling Grackaroni from last game. | ||
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On May 25 2019 04:05 Calix wrote: Translation: I have no other scum reads aside from Artanis, the guy who is the scum-driven counter-wagon. I will be voting for Artanis at EOD but I'll pretend this isn't what I'm planning to do by saying "I haven't paid much attention". While we're on the topic of 'scum driven wagons', Koshi is only now willing to put aside his scum read of me if it means he can vote off Artanis instead. It's so obvious that's what these two scummers are leading up to, lol. iGrok's reappearance has to be the most disappointing letdown in mafia history. He doesn't even try looking into Artanis or talk about other players or anything. Seriously, almost all his recent posts do nothing to help town. Page 6 of his filter is appallingly scant of discussion about other players despite having a bunch of null and 'uncertain' reads. How the fuck VE and Jock looked at iGrok's posts and conclude Artanis is more mafia is beyond my comprehension. VE is scum, Jock is just Jock. | ||
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Like HF said yesterday, give me my VE lynch tomorrow. You all can lynch me if I am wrong on VE. I guarantee you 100% I am not wrong on VE. | ||
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On May 25 2019 04:11 Holyflare wrote: I mean if he's mafia with TMI who is pushing town me then he's going to say it doesn't make sense??? Regardless, I've already done your work for you on the people not voting igrok: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/547420-72-24-midnight-sun-mafia?page=164#3268 Yes, and thank you for that work. The players there who literally don’t have any good reasons for not voting iGrok are VE, Koshi, and rayn. There are good reasons to townread BC and trust he is giving iGrok a pass for reasons he actually believes. I know that because I gave iGrok a pass for very similar reasons as well. Work with me here and actually look in VE’s filter for the things I just asked Artanis and BC to comment on. idc if we lynch iGrok today because his defense is garbage and him flipping either alignment is beneficial because it forces everyone to reread the game. In the world he flips town, I strongly believe VE & rayn & koshi are scum together. Some of the evidence already points in this direction but it’s mostly evidence we’re not considering very strongly because of how straight up awful iGrok looks. The only people who have consistently 100% ignored good evidence in this game, not just on iGrok but literally every other player, are rayn Koshi and VE. | ||
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On read and reread he plays like he doesn’t have enough time to read this game when VE & Koshi & rayn account for like half of the posts and none of the content, and when it’s already difficult to keep up with what’s going on with 6 hours to play instead of barely 2. | ||
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Cool, same question on VE. Rayn? Koshi? iGrok? Cool we’ve established that it’s not alignment indicative, but probably indicative that Artanis doesn’t have time to get things correct. Occam’s razor ftw. | ||
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On May 25 2019 04:30 Jockmcplop wrote: This isn't a stretch. You are taking two pretty much identical filters and making excuses for one of them while calling the other scum... No stretching, pure agenda. So you can shove you occam's razor up your bum. You have your top 3 townreads all telling you that you are wrong. They are not identical filters at all. The case on iGrok is far more damning than on Artanis, and in fact there really isn’t much of a case on Artanis at all other than he and BC misunderstanding each other and it contributing a lot to people getting confused because it’s probably two towns fighting each other. Like Artanis not getting BC’s scum meta correct isn’t necessarily scummy. It’s not scummy to be wrong, especially when he backed off to re-evaluate. It’s scummy to do something continuously when you don’t have any evidence for it, and when presented with evidence to the contrary if you continue to ignore it. OTOH what VE, Koshi, and rayn have been doing all game is the exact opposite. They say all sorts of stuff with literally no evidence, and in fact a whole bunch of the time there is a mountain of evidence opposing them and they still say the same stuff over and over and over. Koshi can sail through mostly on the fact that everyone ignores him. Rayn and VE are sailing through to some degree on being ignored as well, as I’ve pointed out multiple times that people are townreading VE without actually reading the content and agenda of his posts. However the difference is that rayn if he’s scum knows he doesn’t have to do anything until his target flips because his town meta allows him to reach conclusions and never leave them until he absolutely has to. He did that on you already. VE knows he can’t hard stance anything because he’ll get caught in a slip almost immediately by either myself or BC, and we just played with him and we are both saying his tone is very different this game. He’s basically been on edge this whole game for no reason whatsoever. That’s why he’s literally never hard stanced this game. | ||
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No way mafia shoots Koshi of all people in this game, over HF, over Jock, over myself even He should be autolynch here for that | ||
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Koshi is claiming vet here because he has TMI. It actually doesn’t matter what iGrok’s alignment is because this claim should autoscum you on Koshi. Like no blue in this game would counter claim that unless in the off chance you or Jock are veteran, and that is an incredibly easy risk for mafia to take if Koshi is mafia. His whole purpose here is to destroy the thread and stay alive long enough so that he can dodge the inevitable lynchparty that I’m about to send into his team. Anyway I’m going to go back to bed and sleep for a while. You all need to start actually reading those 3 because we will lose if you don’t. | ||
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He’s a veteran for fucks sake, why would he only claim AFTER I call his entire team out? Like that makes no sense. He even kept going on and on about wanting to kill iGrok too, and I have no clue why him claiming vet here has any bearing on iGrok’s alignment. | ||
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If mafia don’t see a vet claim by this point in the game they know there is no vet and can safely claim without a CC | ||
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On May 25 2019 04:56 Koshi wrote: We have to lynch inactives that refuse to show face. More TMI Knows by now the jailer is not in the thread Man this is so predictable LOL | ||
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The claim timing makes no sense, literally the only thing that changed was I came in and started talking about VE rayn and Koshi being scum. | ||
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Even if I get lynched people will probably still keep calling my play crazy after I flip but they will know I’m town and I’m not actually crazy. OTOH defending myself serves no purpose except to give my scumreads a platform to continue shitting on the thread. I actually really regret coming back to participate and provide reads because I pretty much knew what would happen when I did. I tipped off mafia too much and no one was listening to me at all. gl hf | ||
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On May 25 2019 06:02 Koshi wrote: You should use the info I was shot for at least 1 lynch. Real veteran or jailor will claim after night for sure. This. Is. A. Scum. Claim. | ||
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On May 25 2019 07:56 disformation wrote: for the record: pretty sure he was quoting you out of context there. Nope, he’s basically just been scumslipping constantly. His claim carries almost no weight whatsoever. Like he just said two really important things that probably everyone missed: 1. he thinks mafia “eliminated” the Jock mislynch. That’s really strange because there are only three-four players who really tried to scumread Jock to my recollection, and they’re: rayn, HF, VE, BC Of these, BC is the only one IIRC who had Jock on a watchlist and didn’t actually push Jock much. So, the other 3 started townreading Jock really hard after the shenanigans that happened when Jock freaked out, while myself and a bunch of other players did not really scumread Jock at all either before nor after. No one even used Jock’s alignment and those events to call anyone else scum until Koshi doing so just now. However if he actually thinks this is the case, why does he not scumread any of rayn & HF & VE here for being the only ones who hard stance swapped? What would Mafia motivation be for “eliminating a mislynch” and if I’m scum here why would I ever eliminate a mislynch BEFORE the town confirming events? 2. He just said the post I quoted, https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27366801 Basically his story up till now has been “why would I risk getting counterclaimed as town” into a post that a.) admits his intention is for people to use his claim on info purposes for one lynch only and that b.) he knows he will be counter claimed eventually. No idea why he would say either of those two things unless he has TMI here. | ||
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On May 25 2019 08:12 disformation wrote: ugh look at the two koshi posts before that. like right before that: so context says he is talking about a world where he is _not_ vet and fakeclaiming? Real veteran or jailor will claim after night for sure == Uh no, ONLY the veteran would. The Jailor would 100% unequivocally NEVER claim after saving someone because claiming NEVER FINDS MAFIA THERE. Even town Koshi is not stupid enough to seriously insinuate this and he just literally said that. | ||
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On May 25 2019 08:16 disformation wrote: liek first quote: if i was fakeclaiming and there was a jailer 2nd: or if there is a real vet 3rd: use the info of me being shot for this lynch. if i was fake the real one will claim after next night anyways. should be right, right koshi? Use your brain. After a night flip with no dead townie, the optimal veteran play is to claim instantly. Why? Because only town doesn’t know who the veteran is, because mafia already know who they shot and if you’re a veteran you no longer have a good reason to hide your role after seeing the flip. A jailor has 0 reason to claim right after night like Koshi is falsely making equivalent with veteran, because a jailor would have saved a townread. Why the fuck would the JK out themselves after a successful save on night phase (so that mafia can hit/RB them for free the next night??) when they saved a townread and have ZERO INFORMATION on who could be scum??? | ||
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On May 25 2019 08:23 Holyflare wrote: I will never ever believe Koshi is mafia here in this situation and no amount of saying it's obvious will make any of us believe it. He will get shot tonight and then it is obvious isn't it? Just let it resolve itself and speak nothing more of it. fine, this is actually a really fair point. I think if there is a jailor here though they should not target Koshi. If Koshi is scum, they can cause a jailor to out themselves by telling the jailor to target Koshi and then having Koshi carry the KP, ensuring another no kill and ensuring the jailor would then claim on behalf of saving Koshi. If that happens we basically insta-lose. | ||
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On May 25 2019 08:28 Holyflare wrote: That is a good scenario to happen because then we've stopped 2 mafia kp??? Jailor doesn't have to claim. Sure, but someone would “confirm” scum Koshi as town eventually unless they never claim, and I think regardless of stopping 2 KP we’d never lynch Koshi and the diff is that scum trade a cycle for getting a scum into confirmed town. Like if I’m misinterpreting Koshi and he meant jailor claims after the next night, he literally just said that he thinks they should do that. Also rayn never backtracked his PC claim so if there is a jailor and any other blue, there is essentially guaranteed to be a fake claim in the mix on balance consideration. Like imagine: Parity cop Veteran (Jailor) (Other blue) ^ one of the first two is scum, more likely veteran than anything else. | ||
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On May 25 2019 08:30 Holyflare wrote: Why are you jumping to mafia koshi making the really really suboptimal play of losing 2kp and highlighting himself as obvious mafia if it goes wrong rather than the much more simple version that he's the vet? Because I also have TMI. I’ll let you figure it out. If you can’t, then just lynch me tomorrow. | ||
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So he’s way less likely to be scum than VE & Koshi IMO so either the last one is iGrok or you. | ||
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Anyway. Doesn’t matter. We kill iGrok. | ||
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1. Optimal lynch today is iGrok because none of the claim business has anything to do with his alignment. The most evidence points to him being scum over any other player. 2. I gut TR Artanis and BC and am looking forward to seeing their posts. My reads might evolve there but I have already posed them both questions and am just waiting. Not sure if I’ll bother interacting with them cause I have a strong preference to passively watch now as I’m feeling 100% more confident about the game and have lost my tilt after changing my posting style 3. HF is right about Koshi’s claim resolving itself eventually and I’m not worried about it even though my gut and the evidence so far says he is scum here. Plus the situation I mentioned to insert Koshi into “confirmed” town does require scum to delay the game yet another half cycle which is great for us. 4. My stance and reasons for VE being scum are clear and restating them more is not useful when every time I mention them VE responds by burying my post instead of actually contributing anything useful. You all can come to your own conclusion on VE this game without my help as it is not my sole responsibility to get him lynched. | ||
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On May 25 2019 20:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote: put yourself in his shoes dude. I know you are trying to get him to help, but to do that (he can correct me here) you have to do more than try to engage with just him. And be open to a true engagement. I would like to believe you are willing to do that, but this game seems otherwise. Like, bugs, me, HF, you, koshi, etc... We are all guilty of tunneling and being stubborn. Want him to open up? filter dive him, give your take on the case and ask for clarification, etc... Asking someone general questions that exist in a filter arent going to work =\ hey, I posed a couple questions to you earlier today at #3533, would appreciate if you take a look I think we're actually quite close to solving the game. I should have something right at the end of n2 which you should watch out for. I want you to reach your own conclusions before I spill my beans on you though. Also that sounds gross but be prepared for that to happen after I get your responses. | ||
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On May 25 2019 20:20 disformation wrote: ill claim that as revenge for you trying to mansplain how to use ctrl+f in someones filter... think you had a post where you implied calix asks a lot of questions but doesnt do a lot of conclusiosn/follow ups on that? do you have more examples? from the top of my head the only time that happened was the stuff with conv. thats also why i want to check her filter tbh. anyways... still need to do groceries. see you guys in like 30 If you want to see real lack of followups and some other pretty scummy shit, check these out which I've consistently noted since d1: + Show Spoiler + #437 in which player A + Show Spoiler + VE rayn Player B never answers. Player A never follows up. Unexplained 100% mutual townread. Neither player ever elucidates why they townread the other. #641, #650 promises lynch targets and never gives any or commits to anything. Here's an overview of the vote moves, literally none of them are VE's own reads: + Show Spoiler + On May 22 2019 08:54 Grackaroni wrote: Day One Vote Count RuXxar (4): Calix (2): BloodyC0bbler(1): Artanis[Xp], iGrok (1): Raynpelikoneet (1): Holyflare (1): Koshi(1): Conversion Artanis[Xp](1): BloodyC0bbler VisceraEyes (0): Jockmcplop (0): Disformation (0): Wherebugsgo (0): conversion(0): Not voting (1): iGrok RuXxar is currently set to be lynched. Please let us know if you notice any mistakes. The deadline is Wednesday, May 22 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in #872 response to me, read is a correct townread which is not alignment indicative, but the reasons are all factually wrong and easily refuted. Such a strong disagreement about a read would ordinarily also be accompanied with questions from town-VE to me if he town-read me here but there are none. Follows a very consistent pattern of VE only commenting on requests when there is an opportunity to reduce the confidence of the player making the request with throwaway reasons. Typically okay in small amounts but sheer volume and variety of these posts this game on all sorts of players (with basically no discernible pattern between the players) indicates scum with TMI #875 says he is definitely sure about HF being wrong about some of his townreads, all of which were mentioned explicitly by HF in the immediately preceding post. Doesn't actually say which ones he disagrees with specifically or why. Posts several times following up, only attacking HF for not town reading him harder before yelling for rayn (the only player in this game besides Koshi that VE actively looks for in order to buddy). Also denies being reactionary/accusatory in #878 even though he had done it at that point to myself, BC, HF, and Jock, probably all townies. Also spins "aggro" to mean "called mafia" in #879 when a good-faith read on face value does not imply that #898 buddies Koshi and asks him a question about Calix indicating a doubt of the scumread, even though he acknowledges the thread (and implying he recognizes why) has moved to suspect Calix at #431. #617 gets Calix sentiment AND votes wrong, just one of the many indications that VE is not reading at all this game. Votes are also really really easy to verify. #969 accuses me of "narrative building" even though we're on opposite ends for two players (ruxxar and disfo, me scum on ruxxar, him scum on disfo) but VE never scumread disfo prior this post and never actually provides concrete reasons why. Also, this seems like literally one of VE's only scumreads he's made himself, but recall from the final vote tally that he never voted disfo. 973 further shade on my reads from 969 but again doesn't try to actually resolve the disagreement. and finally the hammer: #1150 and #1151 mischaracterizes my ask for consolidation on ruxxar, disfo & calix as requiring sheeping (it would just require VE to vote any scumreads he has in those 3 players, like disfo...). From above and from my reply on #973 you can see I immediately call him out for calling disfo scum but then shading me for asking him to consolidate on ruxxar & disfo. Why wouldn't he vote disfo if he scumread him here? On Calix, #1164: "I didn't ninja vote necessarily. That implies that I never said anything about her." -> technically true but also whatever read VE had on Calix was extremely unclear and the vote reason was not explained until explicitly called out. Let's rewind to the beginning. Progression: #255 "sounds like you want to lynch townies" -> read: scum? or because just doesn't like the feels = null? #431 not clear but acknowledges thread sentiment against Calix #617 "missed" case on Calix, thought both me and BC voting without reasoning, suggests he has no read or even a townread because he misunderstands? #628 "What is the certaintude around Calix about? What I remember of Calix didn't seem damning, I haven't filtered tho. And I at least DO remember some posts, like Calix here at least right?" again suggests no read or a townread #728 "Things only town say" -> town now? #898 "Koshi that vote for real? She came at me" -> pretty for sure town #905 "idk" Ends on "idk" and no mention of Calix again nor indication of vote until 1157. Defends self at #1165 by quoting the above "idk" waffle from #905. Cool. I can probably keep going but this is about the amount of effort I'm willing to put in when at least two of the three stooges are about to bury this post with 0 rebuttals as they have been doing for a while. | ||
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I'm going to bring town together. My townreads from strongest to weakest are: Jock conversion HF Calix disformation BC Artanis My scumreads from strongest to weakest: VE iGrok Koshi rayn Lynch in this list and we win. I will have perfect explanations for why we should not trust either of rayn nor Koshi's claims at the end of N2. These are literally the only reasons to townread either player, and we can afford to lynch them later. | ||
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I think it's also amazing that rayn, with an un-CCed parity cop claim from day 1, proceeded to be the paragon of towniness by tunneling the absolute fuck out of Jock, into tunneling Calix, into basically shitting on every townread I have (he even made HF apologize for letting the thread go to shit?? mostly on the back of rayn, Koshi, and VE who mysteriously all read each other town with literally 0 reasons and 0 progressions, and who all throw suspicions on basically every read that every other player posts that isn't Calix or in Koshi's random ass 6 player list in which he couldn't remember if he had iGrok or not like five different times) | ||
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On May 25 2019 21:20 wherebugsgo wrote: btw I might be the only player other than HF to have noticed that rayn made his response to conversion about fake claiming PC almost deliberately ambiguous. It's a great copout if he actually gets CCed there. I think it's also amazing that rayn, with an un-CCed parity cop claim from day 1, proceeded to be the paragon of towniness by tunneling the absolute fuck out of Jock, into tunneling Calix, into basically shitting on every townread I have (he even made HF apologize for letting the thread go to shit?? mostly on the back of rayn, Koshi, and VE who mysteriously all read each other town with literally 0 reasons and 0 progressions, and who all throw suspicions on basically every read that every other player posts that isn't Calix or in Koshi's random ass 6 player list in which he couldn't remember if he had iGrok or not like five different times) and yes, I totally made that pun on purpose. HF get in here and agree with my townreads list because you know you want to. Also start believing me on the claims because I doubt rayn or koshi are flipping town here. | ||
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On May 25 2019 21:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote: WBG, can you explain your townread on Calix? I'm sure it's in your filter but I've got enough to read as is. We share an incredibly similar take on the game when I am ignoring thread sentiment. I also have an incredibly strong tonal read on Calix and I am deliberately ignoring the amount of time she spends defending herself because she has been blackballed harder than almost anyone in this game with the possible exception of myself. Like literally Koshi and Rayn have been baying for her head for probably 40+ pages of this game with literally no cited reasons besides the VERY FIRST POST IN THE GAME. Like rayn openly admits his entire reason for calling Calix scum is the first post. Why the fuck would anyone trust rayn on this when he did the exact same thing to Jock and there have been loads of opportunities to reevaluate on Calix ever since? Calix is in the very elite few players I've directly witnessed following up on previous reads or statements in this game. Examples: On May 21 2019 22:36 Calix wrote: Anyway do you think rayn is mafia or not? Pretty sure you did not answer my question the first time ^^ example post I tone read as town: On May 22 2019 03:05 Calix wrote: Why do you people keep hopping between lynches while always avoiding the obvious scum in front of you? First Jock, then me, and now possibly iGrok? Come on. Then again, I have 4 votes. Meaning that even if the ENTIRE mafia team is on my arse, at least one townie looked at the ""case"" against me and the CONVINCING 'lynch Calix' posts put forth by rayn/ Koshi/ VE and concluded "yes, this is a great D1 vote". But I'm more annoyed with the people dicking around and letting this happen. and again: It helps that in this case no matter how many scum she actually thinks are on her, her mafia reads align well with mine based on this (because I've been reading VE as scum almost all game and no one agrees with me. It's actually driving me nuts how much people are refusing to read him and how much slack they're giving him when he has basically shut down constructive discussion every single time he's entered the thread, with 34 PAGES OF FILTER.) Like I would love if anyone can point out a single positive point, proactive question/followup or probe on a disagreement that VE has had with any player except Koshi/Rayn, and to what degree that aligns with his scum reads because I just don't see it. Lastly, Calix is really transparent in the face of overwhelming pressure. Like I've literally never seen anyone keep their cool this much and I have to give serious props because there is no way I could do the same thing in her place. On May 22 2019 04:20 Calix wrote: To answer this and your other question [the one about 'what made me town-read rayn?'], here's what I remember about how it went. After pressuring rayn...I actually don't recall town-reading him at all. Pretty sure I just forgot about him because he disappeared for a while. Then when I was attacking Koshi, rayn appeared. I was reminded of how scummy rayn was because all his posts were, in my opinion, pushing mafia agenda. And if you need more elaboration then read my filter because I've repeated myself a lot at this point. ANYWAY but then I was like "don't think these two are on a team together" and concluded rayn was scummier than Koshi, therefore Koshi...had...to be town? So yeah. This is again a follow up (to you) and transparently lays out her thoughts. She's also one of maybe only three or four players who I have seen actively care about the complete shite state this thread is in and try to improve it. Here's an example: On May 22 2019 08:43 Calix wrote: Yeah could you two stop bickering please? We're not killing you two today so it's wasting precious time since we're still unsure who to lynch as a whole, lol. Just focus on lynch candidates, kk? Regardless, Calix's play is criminally underrated in this game if she is town and if she is mafia I will probably consider her the best mafia to have ever played because I just don't see how she can be. | ||
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Please, stop attacking each other + Calix and turn your eyes on VE, Koshi, and rayn. You need to fucking open your eyes on the cesspool that is all of their filters because they have the three biggest filters in the entire game, with 80% of their interactions being what I'd classify as "negative" basically exclusively with my strongest townreads, and the rest of their interactions with each other. | ||
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I will again announce that I will have extremely damning reasons for why Koshi and rayn's claims are completely unbelievable at the end of N2. Please await my announcement. If I die before I can make it because I'm a retard and don't time the post correctly, just trust me that I will play to my win condition at the risk of my own life as a townie. However, I seriously doubt scum have the balls to shoot me here because they want the satisfaction of a challenge by attempting to lynch me. Their egos are only matched by mine. | ||
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On May 25 2019 21:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote: To scumread ruxx, you mentioned the way he went after BC for the 'weirdness' in me vs BC if it was TvT, but Calix and Disfo also went after him, which you seemed to town or at least nullread at the time. What was it about RuX' reply that made you feel his reply was scum motivated, and why did you not scumread anyone else that was on him? I didn't scumread anyone else that was on ruxxar because no one agreed with me on ruxxar until I moved mountains to lynch him just a few hours before EOD. The only players I'd consider scum in that situation when we probably waffled on a few townies plus possible scum in iGrok would be, well, iGrok and VE, because they're the only players who didn't have real reasons for voting their scumreads/didn't have any scumreads, and the only players I actually didn't have townreads on. Calix, disfo, and conversion were all around with me and I will chop my own dick off before I consider them scum in this game. | ||
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On May 25 2019 21:42 Holyflare wrote: You're really transparent lol. VE already called me out so I'm 100% mafia know why I'm doing this you know, all that town motivation to fucking publically announce why I might be acting this way | ||
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On May 25 2019 21:43 wherebugsgo wrote: I didn't scumread anyone else that was on ruxxar because no one agreed with me on ruxxar until I moved mountains to lynch him just a few hours before EOD. The only players I'd consider scum in that situation when we probably waffled on a few townies plus possible scum in iGrok would be, well, iGrok and VE, because they're the only players who didn't have real reasons for voting their scumreads/didn't have any scumreads, and the only players I actually didn't have townreads on. Calix, disfo, and conversion were all around with me and I will chop my own dick off before I consider them scum in this game. oh and to answer why I scum motivated ruxxar, I mostly thought he was scum because he was clearly around in the thread but he wouldn't respond to simple questions. HF was also like 9000% sure he'd respond to a direct question HF asked him and he never actually did. The cherry on top which just made me tunnel him EOD was that he commented on the Jock shenanigans and then slinked off and did absolutely nothing the rest of the day. I would 100% lynch ruxxar again in that situation and the only people who defended him when I tried to get him lynched were Koshi, VE, and rayn. I hope you're getting the pattern now. | ||
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BTW iGrok you really need to pull it out here if you are town because now that I have the ability to read your images from a computer and not a phone I really like many of your written notes. I want you to provide your thoughts on my cases before you die so that if you do flip town I can at least get opinions on the game from someone who is confirmed and not named Jock. (sorry Jock I love you but I need some variety yaknowwhatimsayin) | ||
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it's either gonna be a continual barrage of flood posts or some sort of giant walls of text incoming from the 3 stooges | ||
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On May 25 2019 22:00 Holyflare wrote: Bugs if you had a rb and were mafia who would you be rbing? me. And if iGrok is town, him | ||
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anyway same answer except I'd probably RB rayn and then iGrok. Rayn is a guaranteed RB on n1 because he claimed PC and didn't retract it | ||
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posts made after deadline but before the flip are restricted to popcorn or you may face a warning/modkill There will be a voting thread Plurality lynch Replacements until the end of day 2 only. Town can vote for a no lynch. Mafia can not hold their shot. In the (hopefully unlikely) event that no mafia shot is presented to the hosts, a non-mafia target will be chosen at random. If a player's action would return "no result" that player will receive a PM Veteran is NOT notified if they absorb a shot Roleblock/jailer targets are NOT notified via PM Mafia KP is carried by a specific player and can be blocked Mafia RB > town RB/jailer > everyone else. Roleblock/jail does defeat passive abilities (GF/vet/miller/wanderer) No player may target themselves with any power I'm not entirely sure how PC works in this game with roleblocks especially given that thing in the thread about the (I tried...) | ||
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On May 25 2019 22:07 Artanis[Xp] wrote: WBG, given your reads, what is mafia VE's motivation for not engaging you on town ruxxar over mafia iGrok? I don't remember him ever engaging me on iGrok except calling iGrok a leading wagon and then BC putting VE in his place like two posts later pointing out iGrok is not leading anymore (it was like 2 votes on each of 3 players) Also I have no idea why he'd scum both me and BC for wanting to give iGrok a pass given that all three of us have played with iGrok before and consider him a solid vet, and I don't remember ever playing with ruxxar. Also I don't actually know if iGrok is mafia here, he just looks like mafia who for some reason took really detailed notes on the game. Well, that or took really detailed notes as a townie and then just never had time to explain them. But anyway flipping iGrok is optimal here. It will open everyone's shut eyes on the three stooges. Not to mention, he was fucking scumming iGrok when his vote was on Calix for a good chunk so it's not like I even thought he believed iGrok was scum over Calix. Look at him respond to me at 1156 and the post after admitting his vote is on Calix even though he's attacking me for not agreeing on iGrok. Also at EoD he sheeped me TO KILL HIS TOWNREAD WHEN IGROK WAS LEADING Like I will literally never townread VE there even if I was probably being bullish with the wagon because VE can think for himself and not shift blame on others when they give him 20 billion opportunities to explain his scum reads in a 72 hour day game and he comes back and meekly moves his vote off a scumread to kill a townread on the sole basis of me townreading him for it. | ||
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On May 25 2019 22:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Hey I've been keeping cool too though that's fair, she has been under pressure a lot. Not really this day as much though as it became a two-man race pretty quick. As for Rayn, he always gets stuck on singular things and doesn't let go. I don't think it's alignment indicative for him, if anything it's town indicative. I can see where you're coming from. However, I can also see it mafia being pissed that their first post got them under so much scrutiny that even when she's putting in the legwork, people like rayn are still not re-evaluating them. I don't think frustration is alignment indicative. Just because you're mafia doesn't mean you can't be annoyed at people scumreading you for reasons you think are bad. As for following up on questions, I'll grant you it's a slight point in her favour, but I don't think it's hard to do. I presume you mean her Koshi/Rayn reads? I don't see her scumreading VE any time beyond the initial tinfoil. The rest of this seems to be more about VE which'll need a followup that I really don't think I'll ever have time for when I think he's likely town/to be solved later at best. Her reactions have definitely been on point in a calm and collected way, but for me that isn't town indicative. I don't know her meta at all, and everyone responds differently to pressure as different alignments. Have you played with her before as either alignment? I played against her when I was scum and she was town, and I think my gut read of her style from that game is not terribly off from her style this game. However I really haven't compared the two. Anyway, you can disagree with me all you want but I implore you to put the effort into reading VE. Trust me, if there is anyone in this game who knows how to read VE, it's me. | ||
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On May 25 2019 19:19 VisceraEyes wrote: You know bugs is basically hard claiming PR now right? TMI TMI TMI IF YOU BELIEVE THIS AS TOWN WHY DO YOU ANNOUNCE IT IN THREAD | ||
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On May 25 2019 22:19 VisceraEyes wrote: He's ignoring posts where I interact amicably and productively with all of disformation/Holyflare/Jock. amicably and productively = every single time you poop on their reads and try to make them less confident. He's ignoring the fact that I do engage with him - I just disagree with him and he's salty af. The literal lynchpin of the case is you saying you disagree with me on disfo/ruxxar (I townread disfo and scumread ruxxar). Yet, disfo is one of the few players you never voted d1!!!! He's ignoring the fact that I tried on D1 to achieve consolidation, and broke it only in an effort to appease and work with him. My consolidation options given to you were disfo, ruxxar, and Calix. You never voted disfo even though you scummed disfo like four times interacting with me. I even called you out on it and you just matrix dodged. Then you voted your townread ruxxar when iGrok was the leading lynch. GTFOH with your complete and utter lack of hard stances this game. He's ignoring the fact that I've towntold innumerable times in this thread. The best towntell anyone has for you is that they're not reading your filter because it's 30+ pages. | ||
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On May 25 2019 22:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote: If he believes it as mafia why wouldn't he just shoot you and not say anything? because he needs to discredit me first, he knows I will flip town. It's just a series of posts in which he does nothing but discredit me with 0 reasons. He even just spams in bold with no rebuttals whatsoever multiple times just to bury a completely reasonable post I've made. There is no town motivation for him saying that BTW. Literal zero. There is no reason for any townie to out a blue in public. | ||
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On May 25 2019 22:24 VisceraEyes wrote: Like that's a lot of my issue with Bugs certainty here...he's assuming that me/rayn/Koshi are mafia...playting without a mafQT? Just openly doing everything in thread? wtf"? man you, rayn and Koshi are all good scum players and literally all three of you are known for spamming the hell out of any thread you are in regardless of alignment. None of you have reasons for any reads you put forth whatsoever, and you spend 99% of your time poopooing things in ways that end up being completely contradictory but no one notices because no one is willing to do the dirty work of filter diving you. Because collectively you have 32 + 18 + 34 = 84 pages of filter in a 200 page game. 84 pages out of 200 from 3 players, 2 of whom say absolutely nothing except Calix and Jock are scum and anyone who doesn't think so is pants-on head, and 1 of whom takes absolutely no hard stances whatsoever and moves his vote around based on the weakest sniff of thread sentiment | ||
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On May 25 2019 22:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote: This sequence of post makes me think it might be iGrok/Calix after all and at the same time it doesn't. iGrok voted Calix for a grand total of 15 minutes before realizing HF/Calix is unlikely to be a pair. Yet he's fine with Rux being lynched over his top 2 scumreads. Why would he not want to resolve HF/Calix? If Calix is lynched and flips green, he'd know HF is red, and he's null on Rux. I don't comprehend his thought process at all. which is why you SHOULD call him scum. and in the off-chance he flips town, you kill rayn and Koshi who defended him for 0 reasons whatsoever. | ||
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On May 25 2019 22:31 VisceraEyes wrote: 1) Yes, by poking holes in their logic and trying to see other perspectives. It's called trying to understand peoples reads. Try it sometime, rather than just try and shove your own reads down peoples' throat. 2) Yes I never voted disfo! That doesn't make me mafia! I voted for a bunch of different people, and I ultimately never ended up thinking disfo was mafia either! :OOOOOOOOOO THIS DOESN'T MAKE ME MAFIA! And in spite of disagreeing with you, I DID END UP WORKING WITH YOU IN THE END ON RUXXAR! :OOOOOOOO 3) Yes, you gave me a shit list of candidates and I didn't lynch into it! No one wanted to lynch Calix regardless of how I felt about it, I disagreed on ruxxar, and I disagreed on disfo! So yes, I GOT CONSOLIDATION ON IGROK, which you're now using AGAINST ME, AND THEN I ABANDONED IT IN THE NAME OF WORKING WITH YOU WHICH IS THE LITERAL LYNCHPIN OF THE CASE THAT I WON'T WORK WITH YOUAWOFINAOAPIWERVNIAOPVN 4) That's pretty decent, though i'm even capable of that as mafia and is not what I'm referring to. Just remove this point, it's dumb anyway. The first three completely decimate your entire case against me, the rest of it is "feels" based because you dislike the way I've played this game so far. 1. so you manage to poke holes in everyone else's logic but never offer up your own scumreads, basically ever, why? Well, with the exception of disfo being scum, which you didn't explain, and didn't push even though I gave him as an option to you. 2. Can you point out to me at which point you thought disfo was town and why? 3. A shit list of candidates in which I explicitly townread disfo, but you disagreed with him and didn't vote him. But now it's you disagreed on disfo at the same time I presented them? Which one is it VE? Here's what you said at the moment I was arguing with you about consolidation: On May 21 2019 11:07 VisceraEyes wrote: Bugs you're doing a lot of narrative building to justify your reads. Like, I came to the exact opposite read of disfo's filter, it looks like he's FAR more guilty of the things you're accusing ruxxar of and you're making up some shit to justify calling him town and rux mafia. | ||
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On May 25 2019 22:34 Holyflare wrote: I feel like I'm in a different world and the only one actually trying to undermine my reads is bugs :D read my last post on VE. I just slam dunked him | ||
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On May 25 2019 22:39 Holyflare wrote: I'm going to have to disagree really, I don't agree with any of it. why do you think VE calling disfo scum but ruxxar town and then not voting disfo, and then complaining when I push him on his disfo read (which he never explains) is not scummy? | ||
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On May 25 2019 22:40 VisceraEyes wrote: No I can't point to a post where I said disfo was scum, I thought that was implied by my reluctance to vote him Bugs. Like....you're tunneled. Everything is just confirming your bias. I refuse to accept responsibility for this. On May 21 2019 11:07 VisceraEyes wrote: Bugs you're doing a lot of narrative building to justify your reads. Like, I came to the exact opposite read of disfo's filter, it looks like he's FAR more guilty of the things you're accusing ruxxar of and you're making up some shit to justify calling him town and rux mafia. I feel like I was pretty explicit hard town on disfo at this point. Exact opposite of hard town = hard scum. I mean, these are your own words. I'm not twisting anything here, you just aren't making any sense. Then you actually double down on this: On May 21 2019 11:12 VisceraEyes wrote: I just find it strange that we have the exact opposite reads of ruxxar and disformation...my reasons are based on shit that's here in the thread and your shit is based on "OH HE'S CAPABLE OF THIS IF YOU SQUINT SEE HERE!!!" Fuck outta here. If it was based on stuff in the thread why don't you cite what things made you read disfo to the "exact opposite" as I did? Obligatory "I'm not dodging I swear": On May 21 2019 11:11 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not dodging shit Bugs calm your shit down. | ||
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On May 25 2019 22:45 Holyflare wrote: Because it's not scummy in the slightest, you set up so many false equivalencies and bs around the ruxxar lynch that it was distracting. Furthermore, why the fuck would VE vote for his TOWN read and look god damn awful when you've specified that you're going to lynch people that vote for him if he's town or some crap and he has scum reads on other people. It's so dumb to do unless you think he was doing to save a buddy. This was the vote before everyone switched. Calix/iGrok/BC essentially up for lynch. spoiler cause wall of text. + Show Spoiler + It only makes sense for VE to look fucking awful and not vote his scum read and instead vote his town read WITH YOU if he's defending his teammate calix/bc/igrok but you don't scum read ANY OF THEM AT ALL. So, no, it doesn't make sense with the narrative you're posting for mafia to go out of their way to look fucking awful voting their town read and to get pushed when they can just vote on their scum reads. It's really bad to push this imo. No I think it totally makes sense for VE to vote a townread with me as scum because I was the only person scumreading me and I do honestly 100% believe that VE thinks that if he strokes my ego I'll townread him. Like he buddied me for basically no reason whatsoever, it's the least resistance I've ever seen out of VE. He's always proud of being on wagons as town and that he'd be the first person to jump off the wagon without even asking me to vote iGrok is really really bad IMO. Anyway we disagree on VE. I think my points on VE stand on their own merits and I think you're giving VE too hard of a pass for bouncing his vote around when I don't remember the last time I played a game with town VE and 1. he didn't take a single hard stance on a scum whatsoever (look, he's doing the lack of hard stances today as well) 2. he never tried to improve town atmosphere even though I was being very reasonable with him, 3. he insta-town read two very prominent players in Koshi and Rayn, both of whom are top tier as scum, never provided any reasons nor doubts for them (and mysteriously interacts with them very differently compared to everyone else in the game) and 4. he seems to have a real hard time reading and following the thread and repeatedly makes posts incongruent with basic facts despite being around for 80% of the game as evidenced by the fact that he has the most posts by far. He also is a stickler for reading like me and I've routinely see him do rereads and on-point analysis in previous games like the one we just played! Go read that and how different he feels to here. In the last game he was enthusiastic and he writes stuff in caps that in general is always jokey and happy, and here he is just on edge allll the time, from the very beginning, in response to very reasonable posts by you, BC, and Jock. Okay, so you think I'm being unreasonably harsh on him and tunneled or whatever, that's fine. It's not like I'm basing this entirely on my own actions with him, the pattern extends to every townread I have; he has literally only poo-poo reactions and no constructive moments whatsoever. This is really bad because he seems to implicitly townread everyone, because he never says what his scum reads are. | ||
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this: No I think it totally makes sense for VE to vote a townread with me as scum because I was the only person scumreading me and I do honestly 100% believe that VE thinks that if he strokes my ego I'll townread him. Like he buddied me for basically no reason whatsoever, it's the least resistance I've ever seen out of VE. He's always proud of being on wagons as town and that he'd be the first person to jump off the wagon without even asking me to vote iGrok is really really bad IMO. should be: I was the only person scumreading him :D | ||
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Trust me, I'm not trying to frustrate you on purpose. I'm not scum here. I will agree with you 100% that I probably am tunneled. However, you and I both know that we have different methods and we disagree on them. I have moved in your direction since I watched your play unfold last game. I don't think I'm a complete moron; I very well could be given how many times I've been called that (rightly so) for lynching townies. In my defense, though, remember that I townread Pandain in light of rayn flipping town and calling Pandain mafia, and that I townread both BC and VE after fairly minimal interactions. It actually took me a lot longer for me to come to a very solid conclusion on both players this game and I credit that to mafia playing very very well in this game. Like really, I am in some sort of zen mode right now because I spent time reflecting on my chats with Foolishness a lot and channeled House Chezinu and now I feel like the game is just unfolding before my eyes. Anyway I'm going to sound like a complete moron if I end up being dead wrong and I accept complete responsibility for that if that's the case. I am super happy with the play of every player in this game because no matter who is scum and who is town, I think everyone played to their win conditions. And actually I think the major shitfests were scum-started so I don't even really feel bad about that now either. Also VE I totally still love you and I hope you will forgive me horribly for the sins I have caused if my read is wrong on you. I swear, if I am wrong on you I actually don't know how I will be able to apologize because there is just so much stuff that I cannot bring myself to ignore and I respect your play a lot. Like truly, a lot. You nailed Koshi last game, you shot him in the dick bro. Me calling you scum here and not a pants-on-head idiot town is honestly the highest compliment I can give you for turning the beautiful garden roses and twinkling fairies of a town from last game into the raging breakneck 200 mph one liner troll fest that this one was. | ||
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On May 25 2019 23:05 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm perfectly fine with an iGrok lynch. I disagree that the case on him is as cut and dry and Holyflare makes it, but I think it's a good enough shot for today. You want me to be certain. I can't indulge you and I'm not going to lie to you. I also have a mild scumread on Calix still, if you're reading my posts you saw me disagree with the case on her that rayn put forward, but I read her mafia independently. I'm unsure on a third because there are now 3 PR claims and those will solve themselves I hope, GIVING us the third maybe. Which parts of Holyflare's case do you disagree with? Because I agree with you on this sentiment. What do you read Calix as mafia for? Can you point it out to me like I'm an idiot? Cause I read her townier than basically anyone except Jock, conversion, and HF. And in fact I've swapped HF and Calix multiple times and had her above HF for quite a while just on the basis of her nerves of iron steel. Well that and her pretty good reads, question and answer followups and general feeling that she's trying to figure out the game and genuinely frustrated that she has to deal with Koshi rayn etc. and the fact that she dreads having to read 80 pages of one liners. | ||
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On May 25 2019 23:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote: VE, WBG, can you give me your thoughts on Conversion? basically confirmed town read for yourself: On May 23 2019 22:24 wherebugsgo wrote: alright, I couldn't resist, I pronounce to you all, my first read of today. I basically consider you confirmed town for this post. I mean, I already invited you to my circle so it can't get much better than this. If you have any questions for me, I'll play with you. Also, I want you to read tl.net and let me know your thoughts on that little game. You won't get anything from me for playing or even winning, unfortunately, because you've already won in my book, but maybe you'll get something for yourself. You mentioned memorability. I agree, memorability is good. Whose takes have not been memorable? I think I know, and I think you know as well. If knowledge aligns, then we're probably not wrong together. I think you should relate a lot to that if you're town. Also conversion dropped like two giant meta cases and was willing to go meta ruxxar (and not just trust me on my word for it) so just on sheer effort to figure out the game (given his limited time) I don't read him as scum. As an aside, IIRC iGrok noticed this same post as me and also confirmed conversion. Not sure why scum would do that and eliminate a possible mislynch (look at what rayn is saying about conversion) and it's a bit of why I'm townier on iGrok after reading his image posts. | ||
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On May 25 2019 23:15 VisceraEyes wrote: There's a reason I'm so good as scum. It's because my play lacks consistency. You're witnessing that right now. I believe in you. You can get past it. You can do it Bugs. I had a pregame excuse. I said "I have no strong feelings one way or the other" I'm not going to lie and say I was going to play this game intentionally differently, but it turns out that due to the player list and circumstances, the difference between this game and last game actually did end up being "I have no strong feelings one way or the other" which, for those of you keeping track at home and in the ObsQT, is THREE prescient things VisceraEyes has said this game. I had a hard time developing reads yesterday and it shows in my play. I didn't have a hard time forming TOWNREADS, only MAFIA READS, which are the important kind when deciding on who to consolidate on. So no, given that you're being reasonable now, I'm not going to just let you go with "Sry bro I can't" because I know you can. You proved it last game. You can. Plz do. Yeah honestly the thing that made me waver so hard on BC this game was that he seemed to agree with me that your tone is different, voted you, and then slinked off and disagreed with me a lot about you. You think he's fucking us? It'd be in his wheelhouse. But you know whatever. I can do this. | ||
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On May 25 2019 23:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote: That's fair. I remember him getting into a bunch of swears earlier and FF had to come in. Dick move analysis does suggest he's town. Also a good point so I guess it's irrelevant until iGrok flips. nah I think you misread some of that interaction. You should go back and reread the dick move thing cause I am fully team conversion there | ||
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On May 25 2019 23:23 VisceraEyes wrote: Re: iGrok - Mostly that the coloration of the reads and their timings mean so much. It's not so much that I disagree with parts of the case, mostly with how strongly HF feels they MAKE iGrok mafia. Like, I think the strongest point is the skipping over Calix EoD, being the actual thread action portion of the affair. But I don't like, disagree with his conclusions. It's a matter of scale. what things are stretches in your mind? And what do you make of iGrok hard town-reading conversion for the same post I pointed out? You know the one I'm talking about? Like if you ignored HF's case entirely what would be your read on iGrok? | ||
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On May 25 2019 23:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Don't give me more homework dad, I'm already swamped. okie just trust my word on conversion. Feel free to trust me on Jock, conversion, Calix, HF. I mean, if you're not sure after I've said things and think I'm wrong + Show Spoiler + or if you don't believe I'd cut my dick off for my townreads this game I townread BC but he also needs to pull his own weight though so if you can encourage him to followup with me that would be great. Same posts you followed up on with me. Kthxbai | ||
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On May 25 2019 23:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: Gimme a sec Holyflare i need to go to the store real quick first, i will answer your iGrok case right after, since i think you at least deserve an answer whther or not you like the answer. oooohhhh he's about to poo poo you HF | ||
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On May 25 2019 23:28 VisceraEyes wrote: re: Calix Rayn's case is based on meta, afaict it's based on a game he and holyflare were in with her that should make her doubt her ability to read rayn/HF and one of her first reads was a hard read of both he and HF. Like HF, I disagree with the SCALE of this accusation, fmp it looks like she CAN arrive at that level of certainty, but I don't KNOW that and it COULD be mafia that she's reading rayn/HF that strongly that early. IDK. But fmp she comes in at convenient times to shade convenient people, all while both being indignant when people doubt her ability AND acting like people shouldn't listen to her because she doesn't know meta, or is confused, or the thread is too long etc etc etc I think I was in that same game and I disagree with rayn oh oh ooooooooooh baby maybe I'm insane | ||
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On May 25 2019 23:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Like I want to finish my reread but IT'S SO COZY IN HERE *pokes in bumatlarge* | ||
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I feel like we need some puppies in here cause it's getting all emotional and I'm just not ready for this | ||
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On May 25 2019 03:33 iGrok wrote: Also, see the post above the one you quoted. Please don't take what HF says about my methods as more true than what I say about my methods. You might not think its good/effective but at the very least I know more about what I'm doing than someone else does. poor iGrok man | ||
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I actually literally made kurumi change my role PM flavour just so that I could whip out my claim. Then I think someone nuked my face | ||
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On May 25 2019 23:49 VisceraEyes wrote: Tell me what it will take Bugs. Tell me and I'll do it. I'm sorry but you gotta give me Koshi LOL jk I'm playing I'm staying on iGrok cause I'm a pussy | ||
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On February 25 2012 13:41 wherebugsgo wrote: Breaking News Alert I am running for President. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, your candidate this game is none other than...me! But, many of you may be asking, who am I? Well, I'll tell you who I am. Here on this forum I've long gone by the name of “wherebugsgo.” In fact, for years (since 1992 in fact!) I've been surfing the internet with this alias. But, what many of you may not know is that my real name is not “wherebugsgo.” Today, however, is the day you will all see the truth, and I shall lead you all to the light.(1) Some of you may know me alternately as WBG. This is an affectionate short-hand name often used for me by people who are incapable of pronouncing full syllables; like babies, old people, and non-native English speakers.(2) Many of you may not know, however, that it was originally coined by a dyslexic. Yes, that's right. I'm dyslexic. I suppose you all know what that means by now-my actual initials are not WBG. They're GWB. You heard correctly. Let in the light. Let the realization wash over you. Are you excited yet?(3) I know that may have been hard for some of you to learn. It was hard for me too. Don't worry though, dylexia is not contagious.(4) This is my story. I was a wee little boy of 8 years old, and particularly difficult for me was third grade. I spent ten years in the God-forsaken land of Mrs. Brown's class because I couldn't read the first sentence of “James and the Giant Peach.” However, if I am elected, I will ensure that no boy, girl, or animal will ever have to be subjected to that torture! By my mandate, not one individual or corporate entity will ever be held back on the basis of illiteracy.(5) Instead, they shall all be left behind to be swallowed up by the bullies and larger companies. In addition, I will bomb the living shit out of anyone who opposes our interests. I have connections in high places. I have intelligence that I can manipulate to prove that we are in trouble. We will kill them all, one by one if we have to. All you have to do now is believe in me. At this point, I want your undivided attention,(6) for I will be performing the miracle. I have shed some light on my past, and what I shall do in the future, but I have been living in secrecy ever since you elected a Kenyan to office. Until I show you the present truth, that terrorist will slowly kill us all. Today, I, your most beloved Texan, will return for a third term as Behold: With that out of the way, I am currently looking for a running mate. If anyone believably claims Dick Cheney, he will be #2. Also, Al Gore can go fuck himself.(7) God Bless America and + Show Spoiler [footnotes] + (1)Yes, the Christian kind. (2)Also this guy: (3)not that kind of excited, you perverts (4)Unlike the disease of the devil, aka AIDS (5)It shall also allow you all to guiltlessly continue playing mafia badly (6)Also your money, since I want to bomb Iraq (7)FFS never google this phrase (8)Highly confidential military information finally revealed to the press: On February 25 2012 19:25 wherebugsgo wrote: no, not WBG. GWB. I get to bomb countries I don't like and then not actually get tried for crimes on humanity. On February 26 2012 06:28 wherebugsgo wrote: Yo wtf jaybrundage just made a nonsensical threat in PMs: "you might get nukes so give me your role" Curu you scumbuddies with this illegal immigrant? On February 26 2012 21:38 wherebugsgo wrote: I've been lynched a total of twice as town; two weeks ago because my keyboard broke and 4 months ago in a game where I couldn't handle the stupidity of other townies. Namely, I thought you were scum for like 3 days straight and I got lynched because I wanted to kill all the bad townies and mafia ended up letting me. On February 27 2012 06:33 wherebugsgo wrote: Why the fuck are people calling me scum Scum campaign = Jackal IMO. if there is one, anyway. On February 27 2012 06:38 wherebugsgo wrote: Rofl Zephirdd and Jackal = scum "I'll vote WBG!" votes Jackal -_- I need your votes people, I can't pull a Florida/Ohio this time On February 27 2012 06:57 wherebugsgo wrote: I'm gonna vote syllo cause fuck jackal On February 27 2012 07:06 Kurumi wrote: Glorious Day for Soviet Union Stalin was watching the day unfold with a huge grin on his face. Everything looked red. Red, like Soviet Union. Red, like victory. Red, like his favourite vodka name. Red, like blood of the innocent. Also, Jackal became the Polish President. Syllogism became.. noone cares, sadly. Wherebugsgo, the George W Bush was lynched! sandroba, the Ace was nuked! Curu, the Listcheck DT was nuked! syllogism, the Red Cross Ackbar was nuked! Opz, the Chezinu Soul Bank ate himself! devourke, the Gollum failed to simply enter Mordor! Actions to me and Palmar. It's now nighttime baby! On February 28 2012 05:45 wherebugsgo wrote: what the fuck my claim was impeccable! Now I shall haunt you all by reminding you of all the shitty legislation I pushed during my first 2 terms Classic GWB | ||
wherebugsgo
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the best part is the post-death post On June 02 2011 06:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote: fucking, stupid retard. LOL | ||
wherebugsgo
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On May 26 2019 00:18 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm pretty sure I'm the first person to press Disfo as well as questioning WBG. I've brought up plenty of points that hadn't been made yet. oh no you don't get back in line. You're going from 99.9% town to 99.8% for pushing Jock out of the way to buddy me here, buddy On May 26 2019 00:09 VisceraEyes wrote: LIKE ITS NO GWB NUKE SPREE, but I did kill BC. That post ties directly to a BC read I made this game do you know in what way Bugs? Or were you actually ignoring my posts? I HAVE made reads on people, and I HAVE taken stances. Will you admit to overblowing your case on me? wut you talkin bout willis I remember this: On May 22 2019 04:44 VisceraEyes wrote: + Show Spoiler [dont open this] + I can't be mafia because I don't even know what roles they might have! lololol BTW HF, remember this post you made from obs QT last game? OMGUS on who? Bugs? His case was literally omgus on me from n1. He defended pandain hardcore for absolutely no reason and that's still the most activity he's put into this entire game and why did he make a town case on pandain? To counter my mafia case on Pandain - who does that as town? His town case didn't even counteract any of my points and then somehow after 100% town reading me and saying I was a town leader his case for calling me mafia is that I wasn't a town leader and I cherry picked cases. bro. bro. bro. I think we have to agree to disagree somewhere. Maybe we can both say we both have good points. I certainly think you have great points on iGrok Just not enough of them sadly cause my Pandain-dar is tingly. But you know I'm not really gonna Pandain iGrok here cause like I told VE earlier I ain't got no business saving him | ||
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except maybe HF don't hurt me pls hope that made sense. | ||
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On May 26 2019 00:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm so confused, I'm trying to get Jock to townread me because I prefer not being lynched. Also, how am I buddying you in that post? "i'm the first person to question WBG LOL" said to Jock, literally captain of the WBG questioning squad | ||
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On May 26 2019 01:08 Holyflare wrote: Can I get past the BC meta read Artanis made? I dunno lol. I can't believe Artanis thought BC's posts were even aggro to make a case? Kinda unbelievable? hi I'm back cause I can't sleep cause it's a sauna in here and I feel the urge to tell HF to knock it off before he makes another bad scumread. I am now reverting to my channeling of Foolishness after our previous intermission, to reminisce about past good fairy garden town times. All of that is now over. It's serious business time. Get ready. hey HF, knock it off. Don't scumread Artanis for bad reasons. I believe in you, I believe that the gears are moving in your head and you feel confused. Be patient. You need to empathize more. You're scumreading Artanis for disappearing just like you did on Calix earlier, though you caught yourself on Calix and you didn't catch yourself on Artanis. You have a strong meta case to read town on BC but you're not noticing that people are scumming BC for not being present either (so while I think you have the correct read, you need to do more to help strengthen the reads of those who are scumming BC). People are doing the same thing to conversion as well and I believe you have the correct read there but just need to ensure thread sentiment never creeps back to that. You have evidence of a townie in the form of game notes for iGrok but you aren't seeing it because of the play that you can't reconcile, because you aren't able to put yourself in the shoes of the player you're attacking. There's one more case where I believe you aren't empathizing enough but that one contains a lot of bias so I won't go there. Look at the thread sentiment immediately after Artanis left the thread. He's not scum because he told the truth about not having enough time and saying he's "underwhelming" is essentially a way we all rationalize our read weakenings based purely on activity. Also, look carefully for patterns on who is pushing thread sentiment and who is trying to ride thread sentiment. It comes in waves. You need to ignore names and step back, think about who benefits if the thread is 200 pages. Hint: it's actually not the "lurkers" and really there are no lurkers this game. The bottom 5 players on activity stick out like sore thumbs despite all of them, purely based on content, looking fine. If scum are playing well here (which they certainly are if town reads overlap so little even though we've been discussing for 200 pages) then they're contributing to activity but not contributing to solving the game; the activity is making it harder to find scum. Recall what I said last game about me thinking activity that is too low is bad and activity that is too high that is also too bad. I've been desperately trying to slow down the thread in my own shitty ways, and failing horribly because it's very difficult for me to do when I am myself an active townie. You should be looking at the top 5 active players this game, yes myself included, for the scum. There's at least one active scum in the top 3 posters in this game IMO. I know I've acted like a complete monkey at times, especially over the course of d2 and the end of d1. I think if you are really town here and want to understand why I was able to nail you on your playstyle last game but still call you scum (and this is because I HIGHLY respect your play. I cannot call you dumb town so if I call you out on surface level nitpicking, and by your own admission I was right, I'm forced to call you scum, it's optimal play) but make an on-the-fly adjustment here and really townread you, when I see you doing a lot of the same things from last game e.g. on reading iGrok, and falling into the away from thread = scum trap, you need to do what I did and try to put yourself in my shoes. Try to read the game as I do for once. I've read the game from your perspective and it makes sense to me. I'm blending our reads to solve the game. | ||
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On May 26 2019 01:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: bugs i am trying to be reasonable with you once more. I dont care however much you think i am mafia for whatever reason you have invented but your Koshi read is garbage. There is zero percent chance Koshi claims veteran with zero pressure on him when a no-kill on N1 confirms there is either a jailkeeper or a veteran in the game. If you want to claim jailkeeper i am willing to decide on a lynch between you two, and you should come out weith it right away, otherwise your shit on Koshi is garbage and you should know it. Let's talk about you first. 1. Why did you make your PC claim and whether you were backtracking it ambiguous as HF pointed out in your response to conversion's confusion post? + Show Spoiler + I don't think HF bought your explanation on how your response went down, given that I certainly didn't and I'm not sure anyone else in the thread really 100% agreed you are town PC because Calix actually even threw a case on you and no one, to the best of my knowledge, rebutted her by saying you're an un-CCed PC. 2. Why have you decided to talk to me now in a civil manner when I hard-stance Koshi? All I recall you doing this game is claiming PC, tunneling the only non-dead confirmed town in the game, followed by tunneling Calix in the exact same way and ignoring great, new evidence that Calix is not scum. I know you do this to some extent as town and I'm about to get a bunch of people meta riding you town here but I think this seems exaggerated. I think even your top town read Koshi has dropped the Calix = scum blinders and you haven't, as I recall, seemed to engage him on why he thinks so. 3. Why did you berate HF for letting the thread atmosphere get polluted when you're arguably far more responsible for that? If you're un-CCed PC then surely you should consider yourself confirmed town, and put yourself in a leadership position to make sure you get listened to if you 100% believe you are right, and help us all figure out the rest of the game in the process. There's certainly more than one scum, yeah? Why wait until now to become an active participant in the solving efforts? Despite scum reading me you did actually engage me during N1 last game, because I remember talking to you during the night and making whatever futile efforts I could to get you to stop incorrectly scumreading me (and also Pandain?) before you died. let's not talk about Koshi, he's like an innocent child who I have to murder for something he didn't entirely do wrong and it feels bad to have to do him in like this. Although to be fair I suspected he was scum well before I started calling him scum 100%, the claim just sealed the deal. + Show Spoiler + I have already explained why it's a scum claim though. I'll add that he waited until he was certain of two things, one, a single, very lynch-happy townie (me) basically being 100% certain he's scum, but IIRC he passed it off as "townies" (note the plural) calling him scum. He also messed up his claim reasons several times and it looked like he panicked. I caught a few scumslips. People disagree. My points stand on their own merits and you aren't bringing up anything new here that I haven't already addressed.+ Show Spoiler + I'm not claiming Jailer and I find it scummy that you're assuming that. Clearly not reading the thread/my posts about the claim and more evidence you have TMI. | ||
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On May 26 2019 01:44 VisceraEyes wrote: You really are just ignoring me. You really are tunneled that hard. Bugs I never want to play another game with you again. sorry, I'm ignoring you because I want to drop the tunnel, as unintuitive as that sounds. I'm sorry that I've made you feel that way if you're town and not just a scummer. I'm here if you want to rant at me, I'll take it full blast bro. Anything for you. I'm also really really sorry if I made the game unfun for you at any point, 100% not my intention there either. If there's anything that anyone should know about me, it's not that I am obviously very stubborn, and pretty retarded. They go hand in hand and are evident, I'm one of the most prolific town on town lynchers ever. However, really the one thing everyone should know is that I always, 100%, 1000% play to my win condition, with the hope that as human as I am I can do my own thing and have some good moments and some fun lynching scummers and defending my slandered teammates and doing what I like doing best which is convincing people to help me win the game using empathy, evidence, and logic, to whatever extent my pea-brain can process those things, anyway. And in this game everyone played their hearts out and regardless of the results, regardless of people calling me pants-on-head when I turn out wrong, I'm happy. | ||
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On May 26 2019 01:51 Holyflare wrote: BloodyC0bbler Table of Contents Read Progression - Inconsistent Thoughts and Scummy Jock Reads - Really Scummy Looking Other D1 Reads - Not awful Post D1 Flip/N1 - Inconsistent/Not Awful D2 - Not Bad/Consistent TL;DR His read progression + Show Spoiler + On May 20 2019 06:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote: honestly thought this was going to start you know, not when it did. As I am just finishing the catch up so far. Anyone who liked the fact HF started the vote train and swing onto rayn based off the Town Vanilla post should be shooting HF with a gun. Why? Because HF claims / fake claims shit every fucking game and gets pissed if you lynch him off it. If someones whos moto is to be a troll with claims decides to start any form of suspicion on someone for any style of claim he deserves to be doused in fire and die. Now. If you voted for Rayn for anything after his claim and before Calix appeared in the thread, you are in the clear for now. Calix imo screams fucking mafia. His first post, Which I will quote here just to bring it back to the forefront this post is extremely fucking scummy. His entire post screams thread sentiment while offering nothing new, gives a shitty reason to drop a vote. He "red" reads rayn for being lacking while his entire post is lacking anything but "certainty" then spends the rest of his time basically doing nothing aside from "keep voting rayn" while offering nothing new before vanishing. VE does raise a good point on Igrok however before we decide to fully opt that route we should wait for him to get back from being gone all day on a plane to post anything to get a better idea. I am fine with putting him on the likely red list for now but I feel like its fine to give the man a few more posts before damning him given what he has posted thus far. Also this is being quoted for anyone who bothers to think on it. I feel it will give me / anyone with brains proper reads on eachother this game. BC begins the game saying that the vote train on Rayn is really bad (from me) because I fake claim stuff all the time but this was quite literally nothing to do with fake claiming anything. Straight after he then goes on to say if you voted for Rayn for anything after that you are in the clear for now but he has the following things. Both of these things are inconsistent AND unrelated to each other. One of them is simply about his view on myself and the other is for everyone else that voted for Rayn after the fact (but I was the first one to vote for rayn for something not to do with the claim too!) so it's a lot of hot air. He posts a small read list but there's several inconsistent things related to it. Earlier he said that everyone voting for rayn after the fact is in the clear for now but Jock and myself both voted for rayn after the fact and are null to scum and Rayn is null possible town. This is internally inconsistent with what BC has promoted in the thread. Why is everyone that voted for rayn after the claim thing clear if he town reads rayn? Calix is also scum but shares this same sentiment, so really the beginning of his post was entirely irrelevant wasn't it? Furthermore, he scum reads Calix for her opening post saying it's anything but "certain" but doesn't evaluate where it's UNcertain. I'd argue it's not really uncertain at all like he makes it out to be, quite the opposite in fact, very hard stances. This post seems like a terrible conclusion to me: Both Ruxxar and Calix are on his lean scum reads (Calix being mafia) but his conclusion after this is that Ruxxar AND Calix are mafia or one of them is. It's a bit of a backwards conclusion to make rather than Ruxxar just being town. What you'd be even more confused to know is that this ruxxar conclusion comes BEFORE BC had already made his read list that called ruxxar/calix lean scum/scum so it's already gone back in time to make a weird conclusion that wasn't even necessary if that's what he already concluded in his reads list. Just looks like posturing to me. His Jock Reads His stance on Jock: BC asks me for my stance on Jock's post here: + Show Spoiler + On May 20 2019 06:49 BloodyC0bbler wrote: HF. Ignoring Rayns case on Jock. What do you think of Not knowing why he asked it I answered it and he didn't really provide anything from it. That was until he posted this shortly after: + Show Spoiler + On May 20 2019 06:57 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Rayn, take a step back and take a chill pill. Regardless of what else Jock has posted in thread, his most damning post is the one I quoted. Again, I want at least VE or Bugs, preferably both and a few others to talk on it and I will say why. However at this point, Ruxxar and Calix are the 2 scummiest people in thread. I mean I would actually kill Ruxxar over Calix at this point but we also have 48 hours or some nonsense left to get information on people. He says this is Jock's most damning post (scummy post he implies) but if you read the contents of Jock's post it's exactly what BC was talking about in the start of his opening post! People voting for Rayn after his claim are in the clear. But they aren't when BC mentions them. Can you predict what happens next? It may surprise you! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. He never explains why this Jock post is damning, never elaborates on it, doesn't follow up with Rayn on Jock at all. It's clearly not very damning in the slightest because Jock doesn't even appear in the fucking scum reads after: fml Maybe he's hiding something? Disformation rightly calls him out on it: All the meanwhile he is dangling this Jock read like it's the best thing since sliced bread that people need to comment on BUT he's downgrading Rayn all the while even though Rayn's only real points and bull headedness are directed to Jock. More dangling: + Show Spoiler + On May 20 2019 07:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote: You are a good enough player to change what I am seeing if I out it atm. This is purely for my own read of your meta. If it makes you feel better if I need to bring it up it will be done in a very similar manner to which I did (although wrongly) to HF last game. So you will be able to very clearly see my thought process. I wont bring it up now purely because I don't think you are someone who should even be up to be lynched today and until you post shit that changes my mind on that I dont want to waste more time cluttering the thread when there are better options IMO More waiting: + Show Spoiler + On May 20 2019 07:42 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Come on bugs. Answer what I asked youuuuu + Show Spoiler + On May 20 2019 07:49 BloodyC0bbler wrote: gonna post these now as I feel current trend has gone away from them. So lets talk about it! Also, Bugs and VE Repeats the same Jock dangling like for an entire page of filter on page 2. Meanwhile, repeat quotes Ruxxar and Calix's opening posts but says no conclusions, just "let's talk about it". Always trying to get people to talk about things and never reaching real conclusions. + Show Spoiler + On May 20 2019 07:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Didn't see this before i made my last post so dont need to repeat yourself. + Show Spoiler + On May 20 2019 07:54 BloodyC0bbler wrote: You reason for Jock and Mine are completely different. I have a scum lean but not strong enough that Im happy with. Bugs has given me currently the best answer to jock if that helps you understand my thought process at all. but Bugs' post was a town read of Jock????? Then he fucking vanishes ALONG WITH HIS JOCK READ. Like what the actual fuck. He's dangled this read, returns to the thread when Bugs is saying we should lynch ruxxar telling bugs he's not going to sheep because he independently has said ruxxar is scummy (but all he's actually done is quote ONE RUXXAR POST ALL GAME) saying that it's scummy even though it AGREES with his conclusion on Calix. BUT WAIT: AFTER 2 PAGES OF DANGLING THE JOCK READ IT TURNS OUT IT'S ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING BUGS SAID REALLY AND IT'S LITERALLY JUST "HE'S DONE NOTHING OUTSIDE OF RAYN READ". Like wtf, he's a good cop check, that's it? 2 pages of filter getting a read on jock and it's, oh he's not done much hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Don't even get me started on this DISFORMATION scum read. What's it based off of? The post he quoted earlier that I even rebutted saying it actually made disfo town? Is that it? It's unexplained completely, no backing up, no evidence, nothing. Jock is even just a fucking null read it turns out: ........... He gives a pass to artanis and igrok because he knows their names or whatever but then Artanis scum reads him for (awful) meta and BC following thread sentiment but BC doesn't even accuse him of the meta being bad he just wants credit for being the first person to scum read them (all he did was quote a first post and put them in a list...) and that's his huge gripe with artanis that he puts him as mafia: + Show Spoiler + On May 21 2019 03:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Wait wait wait? Let me get this straight. In a thread where basically only 2 people (one of which I was the first to really scum read) being rayn and ruxxar all saw Calix as scum. Where at a time, Rayn was getting shit on from the entire thread. I was pushing thread sentiment? I was stopping a shit show of cluttering of the thread as best I could. Ruxxar? Thread sentiment? Literally the first to bring him up. Disinformation? same basic thing. So basically fuck you artanis. I tried to keep people off you so you could come back and at least do something. I give next to 0 fucks you chose to filter dive me cause well its at least productive but for you to completely read the thread wrong means you skim read, didnt read, or chose to fabricate shit. ESPECIALLY when you filter dive me. Sorry, if you outright say you are reading my filter, I expect you to read the thread at the time of my postings, otherwise you are legit making shit up. So you wanted me to read you? You can join the mafia side of my list. I'm fine with this. Just thought it's relevant to build the narrative. He says he feels his town circle is off too but doesn't elaborate how, nor do we ever find out because as far as I'm aware he still town reads everyone he's listed. Here he deflects a ruxxar point about why he got so defensive with Artanis entirely on its head and makes it about him and Calix?????????????? Dodge much. + Show Spoiler + On May 21 2019 06:33 BloodyC0bbler wrote: TBH your tone currently sounds super diff than last game VE. Also your auto swap aggro to HF is the shit he is referring to. Scum reads Ruxxar for first post still even though it called his scum read (calix) mafia and for pretty much the same reasons too! No idea what the second read means and 3 and 4 don't really make anyone mafia but I can believe that someone would think that. What I don't understand is why he defends igrok/calix/other people here when he scum reads calix quite a lot, has defended igrok and whatever else? What's wrong with talking about other people? Why doesn't he mention anyone specific that this is bad for? He spent 2 pages getting people to comment on his Jock null read/scum lean so why doesn't he actually do the same when he has mafia points on Ruxxar? Inconsistent thought process to early entirely. He goes afk and returns with + Show Spoiler + On May 21 2019 19:58 BloodyC0bbler wrote: This thread is such a clusterfuck. Lets all sit back for like, 5 minutes. Remove all our current views for the moment on Calix and Ruxxar. I say this as these 2 have eaten up the majority of the last well, 30+ hours? Who does everyone else think is mafia. Of those people who has been say mentioned many times but like, any number of people but its either ignored, buried, or forgotten? This is for people like VE and Bugs. Stop fighting each other for 5 minutes and how about we find some form of consensus. and before you yell and scream at me bugs. Yes I think Ruxxar could still flip mafia, but it means jack shit currently if neither of us can convince anyone else to see what we have. So if only 2 maybe 3 people see what we see, just for a moment concede for the purposes of other options that we could be wrong. His read list... still has disformation in it... for what I can only imagine was that ONE post he quoted at the START of the game like 10 years ago that doesn't mean anything. Calix is literally associative and nothing has changed on her from his perspective and even says they both could still be mafia? So disformation's ONE post outweighs the entirety of his calix dislike? I don't believe it. Artanis is thrown in there for one post effectively also. DO YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S WORST THING THOUGH: THIS ISN'T TRUE. BUGS DID NOT EXPLAIN BC'S JOCK READ BECAUSE BC'S JOCK READ WAS A SCUM LEAN FOR A LONG TIME. It only became "null" later after Jock's argument with rayn/myself. Disformation is playing well because he calls out BC for it and he doubles down that his read was null! Some question to disfo or whatever and upgrades Calix to a town read after some pages, wants to dive VE but doesn't want to read filter. Disfo hammers down on BC. +++++++ points for disfo, really good player + Show Spoiler + On May 21 2019 20:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote: You do realize that after the post I just quoted of mine I basically didnt talk about Jock for ages? Why do you care about my Jock read progression. I literally in my filter said I wasn't 100% on him and it was a lean. Why the hell do you care more about my reasons for someone leaning scum as opposed to someone I think is scum? You are reading the thread, you have been here more or less active the entire game day and have offered nothing of substance. Help us solve the game, or if you just insist on tunneling people who point in your direction get ready to likely get vigi'd or lynched. Other D1 Read Progressions He goes after conversion who can't name 3 mafia reads as if that makes someone mafia even though he's expressed this game is hard and his mafia reads if you follow his list are up in the air too! Says jock should listen to hf and bugs and vote VE. doubles down on ve maybe being mafia strike 2 on saying he needs to read VE's filter and not doing it but actually voting him - no reasons for voting him either and STILL HAS THE 3 SAME SCUM READS TOO so what the fuck is VE being voted for exactly? This artanis rebuttal I don't actually hate: + Show Spoiler + On May 22 2019 05:33 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Well. At least someone I think is mafia finally hard stanced me. However Artanis the issue with your entire case is its completely made up. Lets look at your first point. My first post was appearing into the thread. I gave a justifiable reason to stop the stupidity of the first bit of the game day based on how I see things. You can disagree all you want, but attempting to stop a slug fest that benefits no one in thread is not a bad thing. Second. I provide a scum read, and gave you a solid reason for it. Again regardless of if you agree with it, my thoughts were there. Third, I give a reason as to why I disagree with VE. Which is normal given our way of interacting with eachother in thread. Then I have a follow up question to get reads on people Now lets move to your third point as its the most damning of well you. You chose to meta read me. More importantly, give that you were the host last game, you should know my meta perfectly well. IE you should have it on lock almost as well as VE, HF, Bugs, etc... Why? because you hosted a game I was in and clearly can see my meta from there. Instead you cherry pick 3 posts. Now the first one isnt even me being aggressive. I will give you a post for comparison from my mafia meta in end of the world + Show Spoiler + On March 04 2019 06:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote: What the fuck is this post. I honestly for most of this time thought you were just a bad townie but like the fuck is this shit? You don't want to kill the policy lynch in a few hours because the guy claims to have read his pm then aside from one post has done dick fuck all. You then say you want Palmar as mayor over HF because you trust Palmar over HF to find mafia. Why? What reason do you have that Palmar will do a better job. Also to iterate what other people have said. HF wants to lynch Oats just like you do..... for fuck sakes dude. In regards to the other 2 posts you use? Shit on the thread? Didn't provide alternatives. Disinformation, Ruxxar, Calix, You. All people Ive mentioned as alternatives. Now before you Go screaming thread sentiment. Or (as this leads into your next point of my scum reads only being people who scum read me) I bring up, Disinformation, and Ruxxar before either of them begins scumreading me. I will give you that my read on you is almost in direct relation to you posting at myself. Why? Because you are actively trying to fabricate shit that doesn't exist. You have actively chosen to ignore large parts of my filter to create a nice story to accuse me with. Also trying to throw shade on me for not trying to get my preferred lynch killed when literally no one aside from bugs was even willing to vote that way? Again, scummy as hell dude. So fuck it. People want to kill me, go for it. However the trade of me for artanis is a good one. Ill gladly go 1 for 1 with you buddy. + Show Spoiler + On May 22 2019 05:42 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Has the pull? Maybe? We have like what? less than 7 hours before the deadline and I leave for work in about an hour. Between now and then i'm not around. Even if you doubt his level of pull, he got an auto sheep vote already, and other people actively talking about swinging that way. Given that I think Artanis is showing his mafia hand why wouldnt I at least push back? Dude. The guy clearly cherry picked my filter / created a false scenario of events on how I am playing. No idea where Koshi appeared in this list. Either way, still same 3 scum reads as before. His vote wasn't on ruxxar because he voted Artanis... on his own but was afk so it's whatever. Maybe even +++ points because he was one of the leading wagons and didn't vote to save himself at that point in any way despite knowing he had to go afk. Post-D1 Flip/N1 Reads + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2019 07:20 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I r back now and fuck, sorry guys. The way Ruxxar was playing I thought the read was right =\ Even if my voted wasn't on him, my read still played a huge part in his death. As for the newest events of the last 20 pages or so. No Bugs, after al that has been said and done, I wont be agreeing to kill VE. I voted for him (briefly) for the same reasons I started to lose my read of HF in the last game. Having time to sit back, think, and reflect I just can't kill him atm. Looking at the thread trying to be impartial again to avoid the tunnel mentality and the adversity from contrary reads VE looks good. and his reasonings for the slight changes between games makes sense. Can't kill him as of yet. Looking at the thread now, especially during the night phase. I would say this. Rayn, HF, VE, Koshi (i hate saying this), all look decent and should be where any protective roles we have be sitting. As much I know that I am on that list because I know that I am 100% town, given that basically no one else thinks so, leave me to potential bullets. Bugs, and I personally would say Jock, basically lives in the same zone that I am. That leaves everyone else. There is enough consensus now on Artanis that although the way I got my initial read on him was completely stupid, he has continued to post in a way that I still think is mafia. Plus the people who seem to be playing better than me agree on it so I feel a bit more sure. the other 2 I feel are scattered between Callix, Igrok, Conversion and Disinformation. Im trying to avoid tunneling like I have been, because I can see that I have been now. I need to reread Calix and Igrok as through tunneling artanis, ruxxar and disinformation I more or less left them by the wayside. Sorrow at Ruxxar's flip, summary disagreeing with Bugs on VE. Rayn, HF, VE, Koshi look decent and should be protected. Still on Artanis. rest are in between Calix (his upgraded to town read read (inconsistent!), Igrok (he defends him repeatedly), Conversion (he town read him???????) and disformation (still seemingly on one post......). These look very incongruent with everything he's said before the flip so I'm not really sure how he gets this list in the slightest! PoE? Needs to reread Calix and iGrok as tunelling 3 scum reads let them slip by (but he town read calix?). + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2019 07:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Bugs. I will fully agree that my first major read on Artanis was after he tunnel dove me and said shit I know is wrong. Your reason for why i was super pissed is right though. I gave him a pass, got shat on by him for giving him that pass, had my filter misinterpreted and shit made up. So I will fully admit I got pissed and tunneled on him. Now. Do I still think hes mafia? yes, but hes currently the only read I had that I am committed to. That is also concentrating mainly on the last 24ish hours as well. Defends VE some more, wants to policy shoot bugs for claiming mafia. Koshi dislike. Afk's rest of night - not really any new info this whole night and bit of an inconsistent who to scum read post. Overall not awful but nothing special. Just existing. D2 Reads + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2019 19:21 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Well, be it vet or Jailer, good work last night. It almost makes up for our screw up D1. Now let us learn from our mistakes and get this lynch right. TBH Based on yesterdays escapades the current people to start the day looking at to lynch. Myself Calix Igrok Artanis Possibly add in Disinformation/Conversation. However as much as I know I am town, there is enough suspicion that we need to sort me out as well as the other 3. We have all been accused / still being accused of being mafia so as much as you all have your other reads. (please do share them clearly) Consolidation on a lynch priority barring some new pressing information everyone should be weighing in on this group. If nothing else it forces everyone to hard stance enough and prevents people from waffling or "appearing" and not actually providing substance. I think we can all agree on this? I hope so at least. I have posted my reasons already on Artanis. Even with everything that has happened and taking a step back I can still see him bleeding red. Callix I could see flipping red, however I havent been able to keep a stable read on her all game. I saw her as red based purely on her opening post. There are other posts that reinforce that decision but at the same time there are a ton that I see being made specifically from the mindset from someone who is town. Given that my biggest reason for ever seeing her as scum was basically the same reason I saw ruxxar as scum I would say she is a lower priority to kill than the me/igrok/artanis group. Igrok. I really haven't spent much time on him. Going to go do that now, but I will honestly say based on everything I can currently remember from day 1. The worst thing he did was the weird association between HF/Ruxxar/Calix? List of Calix/Himself??/iGrok/Artanis Possibly add disformation/conversion N1 reads: Artanis/Calix/igrok/disformation/conversion Then he votes Artanis, defends iGrok again. I really don't understand the read because it doesn't look like that at all, static Calix/HF is mafia read not being updated all game. But then he links to posts which make him feel that way and it feels internally consistent for BC to make this read, so no hate for it. Gets into some argument with Calix which I don't hate, seems irrelevant though and about game styles. Backs up his Artanis post. Asks disfo why he town reads artanis for case on bc which is consistent with BC hating it (obviously). Asked who if not artanis to vote for then said Calix but not 100%, may just dislike her style. Says iGrok probably town. Links meta to Artanis saying that he's totally different and that Artanis was even an observer in the game. Says he wouldn't shoot Koshi. At this point I'm really bored. If you're reading this part please post a "hello hf" in the thread so I know you're actually reading and you can get a free town read! Doesn't dislike iGrok case. Explains thread hostility with working together. + Show Spoiler + On May 25 2019 20:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote: 1. To BC: do you agree with the case on iGrok? I see some merit in it, but I also feel like its somewhat fabricated. Everything of Igrok I see comes off as townish for the most part. My biggest issue is that Koshi is hard town reading him. 2. To both of you: can you again provide a list of all your reads? Town BC Bugs VE(i know right) Null to lean town HF Rayn Igrok Jock Null to Lean Mafia Koshi Conversion Mafia Artanis Calix Disinformation I Not inconsistent. Starts to dislike disformation for being himself. TL;DR D1 - really inconsistent Jock reads inconsistent - lies? Ever since Artanis read to latch onto internally consistent logic and reads, not awful looking Don't hate his iGrok defences retrospectively because they appear to point out not awful things - looked bad at time in context of thread to me Post D1 flip has done not much but shows thinking about the game, calm cool and collected, trying to get info on people and disformation. Seems to just be responding rather than digging sometimes but lack of presence can do that. Conclusion: fucking wasted my time writing this wall and he's probably town Feel free to make your own conclusions on his jock stances and first part of d1 reads meta consistent with town game too probably ah yeah I think we just lost BC don't let me down here, make sure HF untunnels you properly. HF empathy bro. It heals all wounds | ||
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On May 26 2019 01:47 Calix wrote: Artanis: Came into game thread, looked into players, posed questions to scum-reads, gets to the point and actually plays the game despite being short of time instead of whining. iGrok: Talked about how he played, had loads of null reads he did not look into, only has two scum-reads where one of them is his counter-wagon, many posts where he shitposts or does nothing despite complaining about spam, etc. Town: OMG this game is so hard. How can we POSSIBLY choose between these two? If you want evidence that this 'choice' literally could not be easier, just look at Page 6 of iGrok's filter. That has pretty much every D2 post he's made so far. help me lynch Koshi & rayn & VE tomorrow, tell me who you think is best to up first for death. You're also going to need to help me and HF mend our reads because HF is about to go off on BC and that will lose us the game | ||
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On May 26 2019 02:02 Holyflare wrote: Somebody didn't read the post. yep I just saw wall of text and thought oh FUUUUCK HF is scumming BC | ||
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I also don't believe you are dumb enough to either 1.) as town post a VT claim before checking your role PM because in the off-chance you do indeed roll a PR it will weaken your claim later or 2.) check your role PM, see that you are a PR and decide you still want to make a troll post claiming vanilla town. | ||
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On May 26 2019 02:14 wherebugsgo wrote: rayn I don't understand why you would ever ever ever ever claim VT into PC 17 hours into day 1 in a game where the day cycle is 72 hours, as town, when most of the votes were clearly pressure. I also don't believe you are dumb enough to either 1.) as town post a VT claim before checking your role PM because in the off-chance you do indeed roll a PR it will weaken your claim later or 2.) check your role PM, see that you are a PR and decide you still want to make a troll post claiming vanilla town. like this is playing against your win-con if you're town. You operate on logic. This logic should get you killed and honestly I don't see why you would disagree with me here. We need to kill you. | ||
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On May 26 2019 02:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: I did it because i like to cut off shit immediately. Also if i live on D3 i am doing something wrong. cool. I'm going to lynch you for being alive d3. | ||
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On May 26 2019 02:08 Calix wrote: Do you not think iGrok is mafia then? And that the team is Koshi/ rayn/ VE? I'd want rayn dead tomorrow but I am curious as to what 'bomb' you're planning on dropping N2. Also I'm planning on using N2 to filter VE and nothing else. The more time goes by, the more I find it scummy to have someone who is so malleable and who still doesn't seem to have strong stances on the game. Honest to God can't remember what his reads are at all. Like I get adding qualifiers to your reads or not being 100% sure [although he's shading me for acknowledging my reads may not be based on accurate information, lol]. And I also get being malleable/ sheepy on D1 because nothing's set in stone then. But his attitude is getting harder and harder to believe as the game progresses. If you want to save yourself some pain of filtering VE, just filter me for my several posts on him. You can come to your own conclusions on whether I'm tunneled or if my logic is sound. | ||
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On May 26 2019 02:27 VisceraEyes wrote: I actually went back and read the whole thing, and I've fixed it for you. I edited out everything that was meaningless and left the only things that mattered at all in your post. I edited out a LOT of words son, and you are ignoring a LOT of effort I put in today and if the bolded is true, then I'm taking this as a mafia claim from you. You'd better motherfucking kill me. effort ain't townie bro, not with a player as good as you. You understand though. You'd be creaming your pants just like me if you caught me red handed fingering the cookie jar. | ||
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oh holy dick monger | ||
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On May 26 2019 02:08 Calix wrote: Do you not think iGrok is mafia then? And that the team is Koshi/ rayn/ VE? I'd want rayn dead tomorrow but I am curious as to what 'bomb' you're planning on dropping N2. Also I'm planning on using N2 to filter VE and nothing else. The more time goes by, the more I find it scummy to have someone who is so malleable and who still doesn't seem to have strong stances on the game. Honest to God can't remember what his reads are at all. Like I get adding qualifiers to your reads or not being 100% sure [although he's shading me for acknowledging my reads may not be based on accurate information, lol]. And I also get being malleable/ sheepy on D1 because nothing's set in stone then. But his attitude is getting harder and harder to believe as the game progresses. Nah I'm steadily feeling less mafia on iGrok as we pass. I think it is still optimal to lynch the fucker as long as he's afk because sometimes lynching a townie that another townie is tunneled on is the best way to get the tunneler to reevaluate. I put myself in HF's shoes and I think our confidence levels on iGrok have sort of merged on thread sentiment (well really I'm the one constantly saying iGrok is town really, in HF's ear) while HF in private is stamping his feet and insisting iGrok is scum for his own reasons. But hey, this is a team game so w/e. you better be curious about my bomb but honestly I think it won't be a slam dunk. Unless iGrok flips the exact role I think he's about to flip in which case I'm a breadcrumb god. | ||
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On May 26 2019 02:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like i very literally explained it and people scumread me for it because ???????? ah but you can't explain it though can you like I just pointed out a contradiction that is literally impossible for you to refute. You cannot simultaneously play to your town win condition and make that VT into PC claim. It is literally impossible. | ||
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On May 26 2019 02:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Dear god... I'm sure you're smart enough to tell me why you and iGrok are opposite alignments here | ||
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On May 26 2019 02:40 Holyflare wrote: lol ok VE is mafia finally | ||
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On May 26 2019 02:42 VisceraEyes wrote: Like after all that, I'd still welcome a lynch because I think it would help town. it'll be a silent lynch Like if you want to do this right now, I'll make sure I coordinate everyone to lynch you, and we won't have to talk about anything really. | ||
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On May 26 2019 02:40 wherebugsgo wrote: I'm sure you're smart enough to tell me why you and iGrok are opposite alignments here let me just add: if I'm 100% right about iGrok and his role, I think you fucked up the NKs/RBs pretty hard. That's a big reason why you lost, and this time you can't blame me cause I'm not on your team. | ||
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On May 26 2019 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: VE is never fucking mafia in this game why are you being such idiots? feel free to explain this like all of the other reads you have explained in this game | ||
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On May 26 2019 02:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Whatever. If iGrok flips mafia then pretty please read my posts after you lynch your parity cop. wow you didn't read did you. You're smart enough to know that I know you and iGrok are opposite alignments. So why would you make such a bad dumbtell? | ||
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On May 26 2019 00:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think this is a point that can actually make iGrok mafia. I aswell don't understand why he chose to write summaries on whatever people that don't arrive to anything when he actually scumread some people. I asked about this from iGrok and i don't think he ever answered. So yeah, this actually is a legit point. When i was reading this, especially the late D1 posting iGrok had, i was thinking to myself "why does mafia do this?". I honestly can't find any reason for mafia iGrok to do any of this unless he is protecting a teammate aka Calix. Once again, as i said earlier, if all of HF/Calix/ruxxar are town any of this doesn't make any sense from mafia iGrok perspective, like i can easily find like ten better approaches that doesn't get you scumread and you don't really even have to write BS like that. I don't think this means anything. ------------------ Many people who play this game seem to forget about the fact that ten townie things dont necessarily mean you should write off even one scummy thing, because no fucking mafia almost ever "slips" in all of their posts. An exaggerated example would be this: "there is a red check on player X from N1, said player makes many many good posts D2, should you ignore the red check because you need to re-evaluate?" Calling someone out for "not re-evaluating their reads" is fucking stupid, because scummy things are still scummy things. I dont want to vote for anyone than Calix. I think no player in this game (discounting Jock and maybe iGrok) should townread Holyflare at the point Calix did, with or without meta backup, because at the time HF had made a fake case on me, and backed down when votes actually started piling on me. HF can easily do at as mafia, even if i was mafia, 100%. Then there is the bullshit read where Calix scumreads two dudes and then starts calling a SCUMMY THING NAI just because BOTH OF HER SCUMREADS did the same thing. That's so uber BS i dont even know what to say. I think Conversion looks like mafia for the eod1. I cba what he has posted before that or after but i can't find any other explanation for his eod1 actions other than that he is mafia and doesn't want to take a stance on a buddy. Last thing, noone should ever base their judgement on the pointlessness of "one of the blue claims having to be fake". There is simply no reason why any of us claims at the time we did as mafia, and you don't have to go further than the last game FF hosted. It had parity cop, veteran and gunsmith. So shut your fucking keyboard bugs and dont feed people this bullshit. You're on the verge of completely fucking up this game, well your shit as fuck reads are doing it too but this also. this is another scum claim BTW rayn Calix is never mafia here. Conversion is never mafia here. That you even consider these two reads at this point in the game is proof you are scum by itself. Especially when you did nothing all day to push Calix, only to show up here to shit on HF's iGrok read. | ||
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On May 26 2019 02:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why do you know i am different alignment with iGrok? because I'm 99.9% sure I saw him breadcrumb his role and despite being scum you couldn't find it | ||
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On May 26 2019 02:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: And what does that have to do with me and why are you not yelling he is a mislynch? Well, if I'm a PR, and I have good reason to believe there is another PR in the game, then I'm pretty sure neither you nor Koshi are PRs. I'm not yelling iGrok is a mislynch because there's a possibility you are actually the real power role between iGrok and rayn. I also could just be wrong about iGrok having breadcrumbed and he isn't one, but reading the thread really suggests otherwise. | ||
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On May 26 2019 03:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: Did you even read my post where i said last FF game had 3 pr's? yep. And there are certainly not 4 here so you have to pick at least one scum. | ||
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and that just won't happen. Time for you to give up now. | ||
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On May 26 2019 03:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: I also dont believe in breadcrumbs. I also say right now that iGrok is 100% town powerrole. You can quote me on that after game. I mean you came up with this conclusion after I did, and you're scum, so this means absolutely nothing. | ||
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On May 26 2019 03:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why cant you just tell me he crumbed being cop? because I like to see you squirm? idk, it's nice to play with your food sometimes | ||
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On May 26 2019 03:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am sorry i dont have time. I am interracting with people on a bdayparty so filterdiving is a no-go. nope. You have the 4th? 5th? most posts in this game despite afking for half of today, and I'm to believe that you have enough time to scream at everyone that Calix is mafia with 1000% certainty with no progression from your day 1 reason to vote her but not enough time to actually read iGrok's posts, the literal person being lynched right now, who you just townread like two hours ago. nah. Get trapped scum. | ||
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On May 26 2019 03:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: I also dont believe in breadcrumbs. I also say right now that iGrok is 100% town powerrole. You can quote me on that after game. On May 26 2019 03:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Show me his breadcrumb and make me believe its a legit crumb and i will vote him. You and Koshi are not mafia anyways. rofl literally one minute apart. "I don't believe in breadcrumbs, he's 100% town powerrole. Quote me after" into "show me the breadcrumb and if it's legit I'll vote him" why is a breadcrumb a mafia claim to rayn who does not believe in breadcrumbs | ||
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On May 26 2019 03:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: I didnt exactly townread him wtf are you smoking? yeah you didn't exactly townread him, you're just a townie who poo pooed HF's leading iGrok case cause you had literally nothing better to do | ||
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On May 26 2019 03:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because if he "claims" to be town PR he is mafia because bugs and Koshi are not. so all four of us are town if there is no breadcrumb? So shouldn't you have figured out the entire scumteam by now then? We're on fucking POE at this point rayn | ||
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On May 26 2019 03:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: I mean you are just super annoying rn, when i try to be reasonable. Idk why. I will stop antagonizing you now, I have reached full confidence that you are scum and I can go back to fully ignoring you. Too bad I can't vote you right now otherwise Artanis might have a chance at dying. Gotta wait for all those bandwagoners to move onto you instead and make this interesting | ||
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if iGrok dies, flipping blue, and another blue besides me comes forward how will you defend yourself and Koshi then? you know, just hypothetically. There'll be 5 of us then when you just let us all know there can only be 3 max! | ||
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The “breadcrumb” I saw iGrok write was his first (?) post where rather than claim he was vanilla town like VE and rayn he was merely friendly and “wearing black tie attire” and the very next post says “I only post in blue” which I found really strange. I thought the combination of these two posts suggested he was definitely not vanilla town, but then his rayn vote reason....???? Anyway the latter I thought maybe it a just a red herring, esp because it occurred after FF’s clarification on the VT role PM. Compare iGrok’s reason to voting to my voting. Occam’s razor suggests that if iGrok really believed in host shenanigans then he’s VT but he posted things talking about colours black and blue in his first two posts in the thread, following two players who claimed vanilla town. I on the other hand didn’t know what the VT PM looked like even though I voted rayn for other reasons, because I didn’t receive a VT role this game. I actually worried almost immediately after explaining my vote on rayn if scum caught the slip I made but then decided that scum don’t read the thread and didn’t worry. Basically my slip was three posts, I called HF “confirmed town” (even though the VT role was clarified in thread by that point so it was alignment-null to attack someone on that) and told Jock to read his role PM even though my own wasn’t VT, then I explicitly said I disagreed with iGrok’s reason and found his reason strange. I also never said I found iGrok’s reason scummy because I found three posts and between them he could have been any alignment and any role (mafia, neutral survivor balrog, or town) If there is indeed a jailer in this game I ask that you never target myself, VE, rayn, Koshi, maybe Calix, maybe HF- let them provide their thoughts on the matter as well—for the rest of the game. I think aiming for anyone else is good because mafia will then need to shoot into this pool (probably me, HF, Calix) and confirm us OR risk a jail intersecting with their shot on Jock/conv/disfo / Artanis/BC and they will be forced to roleblock me or roleblock & kill me because they know I’m blue and have refused jailer protection, which really increases the chance of a jail attempt succeeding because it isn’t optimal play for them to aim the roleblock in the direction of the jailer. Well, maybe they think it is because another successful jail will confirm that Koshi is scum. | ||
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If there are any last minute shenanigans attempts to move to any player other than VE, and if rayn, koshi, and VE are instigators, it’s the wrong play. iGrok or VE only, don’t move your vote before getting agreement of all of your townreads. Since I am not here to give my agreement, I expect no one who townreads me to move their vote. This is a POE situation and we can’t do anything other than: Kill iGrok/VE, re-evaluate Kill the other, reevaluate Use POE to find the last 1-2 scum. GG | ||
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On May 26 2019 08:06 iGrok wrote: because fuck it, man. I did what I could but HF has town wrapped around his finger. When I flip, shoot HF. Nothing personal it’s POE, I don’t even think your play was lynch worthy besides your activity and you were flying a lot I guess? I feel that. I feel the effort you put in, everyone did. However you just look objectively really bad in the context of the rest of the game and without flipping you we cannot solve the game IMO. Especially not without a very coordinated effort to move to VE that doesn’t get sabotaged by scum here (like I never want to lynch Artanis or BC in this game and they may seem like lynchbait like you are depending on someone’s personal lens). And HF is almost certainly not scum here unless both rayn and Koshi are real claims + HF somehow managed to keep consistent townreads with me when he wasn’t even sure on what I was doing or why I was calling the 3 stooges scum all game. If he were scum he’d have landed on a different POE list than me by now and I don’t think that’s the case. | ||
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On May 26 2019 08:11 Conversion wrote: well Koshi didn’t listen to me before going to bed and Igenuinely think we have scum in Artanis. I’m going out for dinner now— won’t be back most likely. but most of my townreads somehow think grok needs to flipped I’m going to get dinner and scan the thread before EoD. We are begging him to reread on HF and telling him why he needs to be flipped but he’s just not doing anything. HF Is really not scum here. If he refuses to do anything but OMGUS then we aren’t going to get anything new out of him and flipping him is the best bet we’ve got for ensuring he doesn’t end up on the lynch conversation again when he’ll be less likely to die later. It’s really rare for a person who gets saved twice to die a third time, and it will eat up discussion unless we are very disciplined and hit VE and VE only here. Artanis is not scum, I can almost guarantee you that. Since there are town reads on both sides of flipping Artanis/iGrok and there is resistance to switching to VE, killing one of the lynchbait townies is actually better because it forces the coco to become about scum vs town or scum vs scum tomorrow and in that situation I guarantee we lynch correctly. | ||
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So we just need to convince Artanis to vote properly and it’s fine, and in this regard he is doing more to deserve to stay alive than iGrok because iGrok is stubborn and will never vote correctly if he stays on HF. He’s a wasted vote if he’s alive, that has been proven two days in a row. We can’t let him live longer when his vote is antitown | ||
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On May 26 2019 08:19 disformation wrote: i mean i wouldnt mind voting high templar of blehness artanis, but grok is just not giving us ... anything? -.- meh. im going to finish my beer and then go to bed. If you don’t understand that the only power VTs have is their vote, and iGrok is refusing to consider that HF might be town after more than 5 days, you are not understanding this situation properly. Even if iGrok is town his behaviour is antitown and it’s optimal to kill him. He’s not malleable and he’s probably stuck in the wrong position because every townread I have, who is playing the game more than him, does not read HF the same way he does. His read is off-world. | ||
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On May 26 2019 08:28 disformation wrote: well i am not a big fan of off-wagon voters. bad for vca amongst other things. so you might have a point here. but id like to hit scum here and _IF_ grok should be town here, he could have done... something. but we prolly too late now anyways If you townread iGrok but allow him to vote HF that means you are willing to let him live as long as HF is also alive. Mafia need to kill HF in order for iGrok to have a chance of changing his vote. It’s the most antitown town thing to do to refuse to accept that your townreads, who have more time to play the game than you, may actually be right. Also it’s a fucking terrible OMGUS because HF is literally begging him for reasons to consider him town. iGrok needs to move his vote to VE and keep it there and never agree to move it back to HF unless he has at least 3 townreads voting HF because otherwise he’s just not going to cooperate with us. That’s a losing strategy for LYLO as well in the odd case that something like rayn HF iGrok is the end and iGrok kills HF there. Probably never happen but you get the idea. He’s a free scum vote even if he’s not scum, as long as HF Is alive. Then once HF dies I guarantee half my townreads will jump on wanting to kill iGrok because his shit read becomes confirmed even though there is actually no new evidence he’s scum. | ||
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On May 26 2019 08:28 disformation wrote: well i am not a big fan of off-wagon voters. bad for vca amongst other things. so you might have a point here. but id like to hit scum here and _IF_ grok should be town here, he could have done... something. but we prolly too late now anyways Are you voting Artanis or iGrok? PSA: If you’re a townie voting Artanis, move your vote to VE and just watch what happens. If your vote is on iGrok, don’t move it. If you are iGrok, move your vote to VE. | ||
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On May 26 2019 08:45 wherebugsgo wrote: Are you voting Artanis or iGrok? PSA: If you’re a townie voting Artanis, move your vote to VE and just watch what happens. If your vote is on iGrok, don’t move it. If you are iGrok, move your vote to VE. Silent lynch time. I am 100% serious about this, if you’re voting anyone OTHER than iGrok right now, vote VE and just watch what happens. No discussion necessary, if you are town and you townread me just move your vote and watch who gets antsy | ||
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On May 26 2019 07:01 VisceraEyes wrote: Don't do it Blue, not only is it pointless but you don't want to. None of us are getting lynched today, none of the people who are mad at us actually think we're mafia except for Bugs. You and Calix and Bugs can't lynch us over like iGrok or Artanis, and unlike rayn and Koshi I'm going to try and consolidate (whether or not I agree with the target) for the sake of putting information in the thread to help EVERYONE, not just me. Prove him wrong please. Again, PSA: If you are voting Artanis, move your vote to VE and watch what happens. | ||
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If you are voting NOT iGrok vote VE instead. If you are voting iGrok, don't move. Don't post unless you are scum, just follow these instructions. | ||
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On May 26 2019 09:09 VisceraEyes wrote: + Show Spoiler + once there's 3 votes on you my plan is to move Artanis & disfo to you to prove that they are town and cooperating with us, and put you in the lead. This forces rayn and Koshi to either try and save you, or let you die. then you will get hammered by one, two, or all three of myself, Calix, and HF right before deadline You scared buddy? | ||
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On May 26 2019 09:23 iGrok wrote: God you all are the worst move your vote to VE or you're still going to die. You need to put your vote where your townreads tell you today. It's POE on you, VE, rayn, and Koshi. | ||
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On May 26 2019 09:25 iGrok wrote: “Grok, why aren’t you explaining your reads”? I gave you a literally color-coded map of my brain. I don't give a fuck about your reads because you are in disagreement with everyone else on HF and you are being really obstinate. It's actually starting to become indistinguishable for me from scum behaviour. If you townread me, Calix, Jock then you should just trust us on HF, he's not dying here, so don't waste your vote for the second time in 5 days, it tells me you've made no reasonable progress on the game if you are this tunneled, and it also suggests that you will be a liability for town because if HF gets shot by mafia you will become even bigger lynchbait. If you don't want to cooperate then you can die. Artanis is not scum here, I pretty much guarantee that 100%. | ||
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On May 26 2019 09:29 iGrok wrote: People are giving me shit for OMGUS but HF is the one who has been leading the charge, making a case built entirely on “this guy isn’t answering questions that I’m asking him so clearly he’s scum”. HF became self-appointed mayor and you all just sheeped him. The dude is like “you must answer me, I control your fate”, but fuck that, he’s scum. But since he spans more than anyone else he makes it seem like public favor is against me we're giving you the fucking opportunity to reread on HF and he's literally begging you to do something other than attack him. FFS if you are town stop talking about HF, take your head out of your ass and read Artanis and his interactions with me if you want to see why he is also town here. We are NEVER lynching HF here either. So your vote on either player is essentially indistinguishable from scum. Look at it from my perspective. I'm telling you, this is a POE situation where the possible scum are you, VE, rayn, Koshi, where I am nearly 100% sure VE is the most likely scum. If you move to VE and we can get 3-4 votes on him, HF may be able to drop his tunnel on you because we can safely ensure neither Artanis/you get lynched, when half of the townreads are on one player and the other half are on the other, and to me it looks like classic TvT. Also based on that, realize that if mafia don't shoot HF, you are lynchbait because you will OMGUS HF. If mafia shoot HF, you are lynchbait because you have no time to play the game and your only hard scum read up till now has been HF. Ignore HF and find the other two scum that fit your worldview. | ||
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On May 26 2019 09:34 iGrok wrote: I already switched to Artanis, obviously Hf isn’t happening well you aren't fucking reading Artanis either so you can die. I think you have to die and see this in postgame to understand how colossally anti-town you're being here. | ||
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On May 26 2019 09:37 iGrok wrote: No, colossally anti-town is making the game so colossally long that it’s impossible to follow WHO DID THAT THE MOST? Just look at the longest filter length in the game. Might it be....VE?? Jesus this is the only post you'll ever need to read in this game, iGrok. I guarantee you. On May 25 2019 22:24 wherebugsgo wrote: amicably and productively = every single time you poop on their reads and try to make them less confident. The literal lynchpin of the case is you saying you disagree with me on disfo/ruxxar (I townread disfo and scumread ruxxar). Yet, disfo is one of the few players you never voted d1!!!! My consolidation options given to you were disfo, ruxxar, and Calix. You never voted disfo even though you scummed disfo like four times interacting with me. I even called you out on it and you just matrix dodged. Then you voted your townread ruxxar when iGrok was the leading lynch. GTFOH with your complete and utter lack of hard stances this game. The best towntell anyone has for you is that they're not reading your filter because it's 30+ pages. On May 25 2019 22:26 wherebugsgo wrote: because he needs to discredit me first, he knows I will flip town. It's just a series of posts in which he does nothing but discredit me with 0 reasons. He even just spams in bold with no rebuttals whatsoever multiple times just to bury a completely reasonable post I've made. There is no town motivation for him saying that BTW. Literal zero. There is no reason for any townie to out a blue in public. On May 25 2019 22:30 wherebugsgo wrote: which is why you SHOULD call him scum. and in the off-chance he flips town, you kill rayn and Koshi who defended him for 0 reasons whatsoever. On May 25 2019 22:36 wherebugsgo wrote: 1. so you manage to poke holes in everyone else's logic but never offer up your own scumreads, basically ever, why? Well, with the exception of disfo being scum, which you didn't explain, and didn't push even though I gave him as an option to you. 2. Can you point out to me at which point you thought disfo was town and why? 3. A shit list of candidates in which I explicitly townread disfo, but you disagreed with him and didn't vote him. But now it's you disagreed on disfo at the same time I presented them? Which one is it VE? Here's what you said at the moment I was arguing with you about consolidation: On May 25 2019 22:44 wherebugsgo wrote: I feel like I was pretty explicit hard town on disfo at this point. Exact opposite of hard town = hard scum. I mean, these are your own words. I'm not twisting anything here, you just aren't making any sense. Then you actually double down on this: If it was based on stuff in the thread why don't you cite what things made you read disfo to the "exact opposite" as I did? Obligatory "I'm not dodging I swear": If you're being reasonable here this should simultaneously turn you townier on Artanis and scummier on VE. Just read this post for me. | ||
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rayn is probably the last because Koshi’s claim makes more sense than rayn’s and Koshi at least reconsidered Calix. Cool cool. | ||
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On May 26 2019 06:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Jesus flying fuck at this game. If anyone wonders why I have more or less vanished from the game it is seriously the last 25 pages or so of shit, like holy fuck. THIS game is a very clear reason of many issues I had which led me to quit playing Mafia. Like this is a shit show. Anyone at this point has a logical reason to just not want to play, regardless of alignment. Because its the most ridiculous thing in the world to read full of vitrol and hate. Lets pretend for even 1 moment that HF's claim (which he redacted) is real. Why would any of you think that Bugs would ever listen to you guys when he has a gun? As mafia he just shoots who he wants. He would only shoot the other wagon if it was going to kill another townie. Otherwise he shoots a "scum" read or some shit. As town, when he thinks 90% of you are shitters he will just shoot who he wants. Now heres the thing, HE HAS ALREADY CLAIMED PR. He didn't claim what he has, he just claimed he was one. Now, that means if he isn't CCing that he is A) A vig, which can be either of alignment B) he is the jailkeeper who thinks hes the reason KP was blocked last night was him C) Hes a lying mafia asshat who is scared shitless of a confirmed town. NOW, speaking of confirmed town. Say for some flying fuck wild ride that Koshi is legit a Veteran and stopped a shot. Who the fuck would shoot him? Like seriously. No one has even remotely considered who in their right might shoots Koshi. The guy literally has bare bones reasons to his reads, in some case he has no reasons and just posts / parrots other people. He spams the thread, is widely ignored, but is essentially helping mafia. Why do they shoot him? Only someone who actually thought he was threatening that no one else was. You guys can go read that if you want. Why do I say this? Because the "vet" players in this game are 100% more likely to shoot Koshi as vigi's over being mafia. Like the sheer level of dumb in this thread. (Me included, im not saying im not guilty of it). People are being given a free pass for tons of shit. Rayn - acting like a troll day 1, fake claims, gets out of a "lynch" becomes non entity. Conversion - where the fuck is he. He is such a non entity that he more or less appears, says a few things of basically nothing, mimics sentiment or defends himself and vanishes Disinformaion - Literally this games defiinition of a parrot. He has basically 0 thoughts that are his own, spews out other peoples cases to justify his own shit, asks questions, then pisses off with nothing new. In fact he constantly brings up shit the thread has moved past to re clutter it with the same debates. Jock - Where the fuck is he. Outside of day 1, what has he done, where is he, why should I care about him. He is such a non entity with everything going on I barely ever remember hes in this game. VE - You argue and fight everything. You are extremely combative this game and part of the reason I can't tell between you and bugs who should die to clean the thread. I purposely and reading you both as town so I can skim posts now. you both are responsible for half the stuff that makes the thread so terrible. STOP FIGHTING WITH EACHOTHER and spending pages upon pages upon pages burying everything else. HF - You are being productive now but you werent for ages. I had more but you have started to actually well play. Long as you keep it up your general laziness / apathy day 1 can be ignored. Igrok - You don't know why you are up for the lynch? You have been basically for the last 72 hours. It was you or Artanis. Not sure how you can appear and disappear as frequently as you do and not even know where the thread sentiment / votes are. However, this is a case (as much as everyone will call me terrible for it) of why you are likely dumb town and not scum. Artanis and Calix are literally non stop talked about, and so am I. I know my filter is full of shit so feel free to kill me for it. Youd be doing me a favour. Found him BC you need to die for this because it’s probably the worst take I’ve seen you make this entire game. You’ve had some bad takes bro but this takes the cake. I heroically elevated you to a townread because I was hoping you and VE weren’t both scum. But you are, aren’t you? You voted him randomly day 1 and let him point that out to me as if you were agreeing even though you never committed, never explained, and inexplicably took a “both sides suck” stance when literally all of the evidence disagrees with you. You’re the one player in this game who has played with me enough and is smart enough to read my posts and call me a complete shitter when you disagree so hard you feel you need to put “VE (I know right)?” at the top of a completely mediocre list post. If there are no other blues this game you’re a dead mofo | ||
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VE should know how to read Koshi properly, but provided no reasons. This is corroborated by him nailing Koshi last game. Koshi flipping town makes VE look 500x better. It also allows rayn to continue tunneling Calix freely, cause that’s his thing this game and VE was using that to buddy both rayn and Koshi even though he never really explicitly pushed Calix himself. BC essentially did the exact same thing, just in a different manner. He finds both Koshi and rayn’s playing styles repulsive so he can safely speculate on why it’s a complete shitter move to shoot Koshi. However he’s raging because his team got fucked by RNG because he agrees that shooting Koshi is a terrible idea, and he probably wanted to shoot me instead if both he and VE are scumzors. Given that I’m a PR and they probably RBed rayn last night, they at least didn’t completely get fucked by RNG. Win some, you lose some. | ||
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VE is still scum. BC more likely if there are no other blues. rayn more likely if there is a jailer but doubt it at this point. Artanis potentially scum and got a free pass from me in reading. See you all on the day flip. | ||
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you and me both if you are scum and Koshi is town here please shoot me instead of him | ||
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We have 3 confirmed townies if no one else claims blue: koshi rayn wherebugsgo No point in me waiting for the EON to post this now because I don't see any evidence rayn or koshi are fake claiming here and the flip was not another blue as I was suspecting, so Koshi's hit claim is 100% legit unless we have a jailer come forward later in the game. I'm: gunsmith that's how my role appears, even though it's Gunsmith in the OP. Important thing to know about my role: I know whether I was roleblocked on n1 because I can check whether I have a gun after the night if I've tried to send the gun to someone. I don't have my gun anymore and so my send on n1 was successful. to the person who received my gun on n1: Shoot VE tonight. Now that's over with, here's my remaining thoughts: There are 3 scum in these players: VE/BC/HF/Calix/disformation/Artanis That's currently the order I'd kill them, left to right. VisceraEyes he's dead tonight unless I happened to give my gun to a scum n1. Highly doubt that though BloodyC0bbler - very likely to be scum with VE because he's been passing on reading a lot of players, especially VE in particular. Really bad posts today. Raging on Koshi getting shot, bad play, etc. smells like he's genuinely tired of this game but it looks a lot worse to me now because unlike last game he hasn't actively helped me as much as I'd expect him to, and I think his reads are trash. He also took no stance on me vs VE and given the amount of time and number of posts I've made, it's unacceptable that he still townreads VE. I personally believe he needs to die tomorrow. HolyFlare pretty likely to be scum here too. Given the events of the game and now that we know rayn and Koshi are town, I'll leave it to both of them to decide between HF/Calix/BC. Both ruxxar and iGrok thought he was scum and it's honestly not terribly unlikely that HF is scum given how chaotic this town has been. Even if all of the scumteam options here are disgusting like VE/BC/HF or VE/BC/Calix or (less likely IMO) VE/Calix/HF we can still easily win here. Highly likely town Jockmcplop - you can do this. Look at my reads but also trust your own as it gets later in the game. Conversion - highly doubt you're scum here. iGrok saw the same thing I did on you, and so did Calix. Townish but on the POE list: Calix - I believe you're town but you're part of the POE list now because rayn and koshi are confirmed town and it's confirmed that koshi was shot. If you're town your job will be to figure out the one scum between HF/disfo/artanis, with a possibility of conversion, I believe. However you're probably the best lynch after HF if he flips town because you obviously would have a huge motivation to shoot Koshi, and if you're on a team with VE that would be an obvious bus opportunity as well. Sorry. Artanis I gave you quite a pass on d2. You looked a lot better than BC to me. You also scumread BC. I actually see some of the anger tone appearing on BC so I think the meta defense case was bad (and this makes HF look way worse as well) especially because if BC is scum here he's playing with VE, and if HF is scum with him then the defense on BC wasn't real. However you didn't really agree with me on VE so that's a minus in my book on you. Once VE flips red on the daypost I hope you can pull out a lynch of BC or HF tomorrow without getting mislynched if you are indeed town here. disformation - I believe you're town as well but at this point I don't remember exactly why. You're my least certain read here and you need to start taking really hard stances on which pair of scum teammates VE has, otherwise you might be lynchbait. + Show Spoiler + I nearly died laughing when I saw this: On May 26 2019 04:30 Holyflare wrote: I'm not lying? + Show Spoiler + Why do you think he's been making all these blue posts all of a sudden? I actually have insomnia and so I saw it soon after it was posted, but I was so sleepy I had no idea what was going on. Flashbacks to last game and the fake claim and I was just like nah let's sleep it off LOL | ||
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On May 26 2019 01:51 Holyflare wrote: BloodyC0bbler Table of Contents Read Progression - Inconsistent Thoughts and Scummy Jock Reads - Really Scummy Looking Other D1 Reads - Not awful Post D1 Flip/N1 - Inconsistent/Not Awful D2 - Not Bad/Consistent TL;DR His read progression + Show Spoiler + On May 20 2019 06:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote: honestly thought this was going to start you know, not when it did. As I am just finishing the catch up so far. Anyone who liked the fact HF started the vote train and swing onto rayn based off the Town Vanilla post should be shooting HF with a gun. Why? Because HF claims / fake claims shit every fucking game and gets pissed if you lynch him off it. If someones whos moto is to be a troll with claims decides to start any form of suspicion on someone for any style of claim he deserves to be doused in fire and die. Now. If you voted for Rayn for anything after his claim and before Calix appeared in the thread, you are in the clear for now. Calix imo screams fucking mafia. His first post, Which I will quote here just to bring it back to the forefront this post is extremely fucking scummy. His entire post screams thread sentiment while offering nothing new, gives a shitty reason to drop a vote. He "red" reads rayn for being lacking while his entire post is lacking anything but "certainty" then spends the rest of his time basically doing nothing aside from "keep voting rayn" while offering nothing new before vanishing. VE does raise a good point on Igrok however before we decide to fully opt that route we should wait for him to get back from being gone all day on a plane to post anything to get a better idea. I am fine with putting him on the likely red list for now but I feel like its fine to give the man a few more posts before damning him given what he has posted thus far. Also this is being quoted for anyone who bothers to think on it. I feel it will give me / anyone with brains proper reads on eachother this game. BC begins the game saying that the vote train on Rayn is really bad (from me) because I fake claim stuff all the time but this was quite literally nothing to do with fake claiming anything. Straight after he then goes on to say if you voted for Rayn for anything after that you are in the clear for now but he has the following things. Both of these things are inconsistent AND unrelated to each other. One of them is simply about his view on myself and the other is for everyone else that voted for Rayn after the fact (but I was the first one to vote for rayn for something not to do with the claim too!) so it's a lot of hot air. He posts a small read list but there's several inconsistent things related to it. Earlier he said that everyone voting for rayn after the fact is in the clear for now but Jock and myself both voted for rayn after the fact and are null to scum and Rayn is null possible town. This is internally inconsistent with what BC has promoted in the thread. Why is everyone that voted for rayn after the claim thing clear if he town reads rayn? Calix is also scum but shares this same sentiment, so really the beginning of his post was entirely irrelevant wasn't it? Furthermore, he scum reads Calix for her opening post saying it's anything but "certain" but doesn't evaluate where it's UNcertain. I'd argue it's not really uncertain at all like he makes it out to be, quite the opposite in fact, very hard stances. This post seems like a terrible conclusion to me: Both Ruxxar and Calix are on his lean scum reads (Calix being mafia) but his conclusion after this is that Ruxxar AND Calix are mafia or one of them is. It's a bit of a backwards conclusion to make rather than Ruxxar just being town. What you'd be even more confused to know is that this ruxxar conclusion comes BEFORE BC had already made his read list that called ruxxar/calix lean scum/scum so it's already gone back in time to make a weird conclusion that wasn't even necessary if that's what he already concluded in his reads list. Just looks like posturing to me. His Jock Reads His stance on Jock: BC asks me for my stance on Jock's post here: + Show Spoiler + On May 20 2019 06:49 BloodyC0bbler wrote: HF. Ignoring Rayns case on Jock. What do you think of Not knowing why he asked it I answered it and he didn't really provide anything from it. That was until he posted this shortly after: + Show Spoiler + On May 20 2019 06:57 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Rayn, take a step back and take a chill pill. Regardless of what else Jock has posted in thread, his most damning post is the one I quoted. Again, I want at least VE or Bugs, preferably both and a few others to talk on it and I will say why. However at this point, Ruxxar and Calix are the 2 scummiest people in thread. I mean I would actually kill Ruxxar over Calix at this point but we also have 48 hours or some nonsense left to get information on people. He says this is Jock's most damning post (scummy post he implies) but if you read the contents of Jock's post it's exactly what BC was talking about in the start of his opening post! People voting for Rayn after his claim are in the clear. But they aren't when BC mentions them. Can you predict what happens next? It may surprise you! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. He never explains why this Jock post is damning, never elaborates on it, doesn't follow up with Rayn on Jock at all. It's clearly not very damning in the slightest because Jock doesn't even appear in the fucking scum reads after: fml Maybe he's hiding something? Disformation rightly calls him out on it: All the meanwhile he is dangling this Jock read like it's the best thing since sliced bread that people need to comment on BUT he's downgrading Rayn all the while even though Rayn's only real points and bull headedness are directed to Jock. More dangling: + Show Spoiler + On May 20 2019 07:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote: You are a good enough player to change what I am seeing if I out it atm. This is purely for my own read of your meta. If it makes you feel better if I need to bring it up it will be done in a very similar manner to which I did (although wrongly) to HF last game. So you will be able to very clearly see my thought process. I wont bring it up now purely because I don't think you are someone who should even be up to be lynched today and until you post shit that changes my mind on that I dont want to waste more time cluttering the thread when there are better options IMO More waiting: + Show Spoiler + On May 20 2019 07:42 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Come on bugs. Answer what I asked youuuuu + Show Spoiler + On May 20 2019 07:49 BloodyC0bbler wrote: gonna post these now as I feel current trend has gone away from them. So lets talk about it! Also, Bugs and VE Repeats the same Jock dangling like for an entire page of filter on page 2. Meanwhile, repeat quotes Ruxxar and Calix's opening posts but says no conclusions, just "let's talk about it". Always trying to get people to talk about things and never reaching real conclusions. + Show Spoiler + On May 20 2019 07:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Didn't see this before i made my last post so dont need to repeat yourself. + Show Spoiler + On May 20 2019 07:54 BloodyC0bbler wrote: You reason for Jock and Mine are completely different. I have a scum lean but not strong enough that Im happy with. Bugs has given me currently the best answer to jock if that helps you understand my thought process at all. but Bugs' post was a town read of Jock????? Then he fucking vanishes ALONG WITH HIS JOCK READ. Like what the actual fuck. He's dangled this read, returns to the thread when Bugs is saying we should lynch ruxxar telling bugs he's not going to sheep because he independently has said ruxxar is scummy (but all he's actually done is quote ONE RUXXAR POST ALL GAME) saying that it's scummy even though it AGREES with his conclusion on Calix. BUT WAIT: AFTER 2 PAGES OF DANGLING THE JOCK READ IT TURNS OUT IT'S ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING BUGS SAID REALLY AND IT'S LITERALLY JUST "HE'S DONE NOTHING OUTSIDE OF RAYN READ". Like wtf, he's a good cop check, that's it? 2 pages of filter getting a read on jock and it's, oh he's not done much hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Don't even get me started on this DISFORMATION scum read. What's it based off of? The post he quoted earlier that I even rebutted saying it actually made disfo town? Is that it? It's unexplained completely, no backing up, no evidence, nothing. Jock is even just a fucking null read it turns out: ........... He gives a pass to artanis and igrok because he knows their names or whatever but then Artanis scum reads him for (awful) meta and BC following thread sentiment but BC doesn't even accuse him of the meta being bad he just wants credit for being the first person to scum read them (all he did was quote a first post and put them in a list...) and that's his huge gripe with artanis that he puts him as mafia: + Show Spoiler + On May 21 2019 03:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Wait wait wait? Let me get this straight. In a thread where basically only 2 people (one of which I was the first to really scum read) being rayn and ruxxar all saw Calix as scum. Where at a time, Rayn was getting shit on from the entire thread. I was pushing thread sentiment? I was stopping a shit show of cluttering of the thread as best I could. Ruxxar? Thread sentiment? Literally the first to bring him up. Disinformation? same basic thing. So basically fuck you artanis. I tried to keep people off you so you could come back and at least do something. I give next to 0 fucks you chose to filter dive me cause well its at least productive but for you to completely read the thread wrong means you skim read, didnt read, or chose to fabricate shit. ESPECIALLY when you filter dive me. Sorry, if you outright say you are reading my filter, I expect you to read the thread at the time of my postings, otherwise you are legit making shit up. So you wanted me to read you? You can join the mafia side of my list. I'm fine with this. Just thought it's relevant to build the narrative. He says he feels his town circle is off too but doesn't elaborate how, nor do we ever find out because as far as I'm aware he still town reads everyone he's listed. Here he deflects a ruxxar point about why he got so defensive with Artanis entirely on its head and makes it about him and Calix?????????????? Dodge much. + Show Spoiler + On May 21 2019 06:33 BloodyC0bbler wrote: TBH your tone currently sounds super diff than last game VE. Also your auto swap aggro to HF is the shit he is referring to. Scum reads Ruxxar for first post still even though it called his scum read (calix) mafia and for pretty much the same reasons too! No idea what the second read means and 3 and 4 don't really make anyone mafia but I can believe that someone would think that. What I don't understand is why he defends igrok/calix/other people here when he scum reads calix quite a lot, has defended igrok and whatever else? What's wrong with talking about other people? Why doesn't he mention anyone specific that this is bad for? He spent 2 pages getting people to comment on his Jock null read/scum lean so why doesn't he actually do the same when he has mafia points on Ruxxar? Inconsistent thought process to early entirely. He goes afk and returns with + Show Spoiler + On May 21 2019 19:58 BloodyC0bbler wrote: This thread is such a clusterfuck. Lets all sit back for like, 5 minutes. Remove all our current views for the moment on Calix and Ruxxar. I say this as these 2 have eaten up the majority of the last well, 30+ hours? Who does everyone else think is mafia. Of those people who has been say mentioned many times but like, any number of people but its either ignored, buried, or forgotten? This is for people like VE and Bugs. Stop fighting each other for 5 minutes and how about we find some form of consensus. and before you yell and scream at me bugs. Yes I think Ruxxar could still flip mafia, but it means jack shit currently if neither of us can convince anyone else to see what we have. So if only 2 maybe 3 people see what we see, just for a moment concede for the purposes of other options that we could be wrong. His read list... still has disformation in it... for what I can only imagine was that ONE post he quoted at the START of the game like 10 years ago that doesn't mean anything. Calix is literally associative and nothing has changed on her from his perspective and even says they both could still be mafia? So disformation's ONE post outweighs the entirety of his calix dislike? I don't believe it. Artanis is thrown in there for one post effectively also. DO YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S WORST THING THOUGH: THIS ISN'T TRUE. BUGS DID NOT EXPLAIN BC'S JOCK READ BECAUSE BC'S JOCK READ WAS A SCUM LEAN FOR A LONG TIME. It only became "null" later after Jock's argument with rayn/myself. Disformation is playing well because he calls out BC for it and he doubles down that his read was null! Some question to disfo or whatever and upgrades Calix to a town read after some pages, wants to dive VE but doesn't want to read filter. Disfo hammers down on BC. +++++++ points for disfo, really good player + Show Spoiler + On May 21 2019 20:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote: You do realize that after the post I just quoted of mine I basically didnt talk about Jock for ages? Why do you care about my Jock read progression. I literally in my filter said I wasn't 100% on him and it was a lean. Why the hell do you care more about my reasons for someone leaning scum as opposed to someone I think is scum? You are reading the thread, you have been here more or less active the entire game day and have offered nothing of substance. Help us solve the game, or if you just insist on tunneling people who point in your direction get ready to likely get vigi'd or lynched. Other D1 Read Progressions He goes after conversion who can't name 3 mafia reads as if that makes someone mafia even though he's expressed this game is hard and his mafia reads if you follow his list are up in the air too! Says jock should listen to hf and bugs and vote VE. doubles down on ve maybe being mafia strike 2 on saying he needs to read VE's filter and not doing it but actually voting him - no reasons for voting him either and STILL HAS THE 3 SAME SCUM READS TOO so what the fuck is VE being voted for exactly? This artanis rebuttal I don't actually hate: + Show Spoiler + On May 22 2019 05:33 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Well. At least someone I think is mafia finally hard stanced me. However Artanis the issue with your entire case is its completely made up. Lets look at your first point. My first post was appearing into the thread. I gave a justifiable reason to stop the stupidity of the first bit of the game day based on how I see things. You can disagree all you want, but attempting to stop a slug fest that benefits no one in thread is not a bad thing. Second. I provide a scum read, and gave you a solid reason for it. Again regardless of if you agree with it, my thoughts were there. Third, I give a reason as to why I disagree with VE. Which is normal given our way of interacting with eachother in thread. Then I have a follow up question to get reads on people Now lets move to your third point as its the most damning of well you. You chose to meta read me. More importantly, give that you were the host last game, you should know my meta perfectly well. IE you should have it on lock almost as well as VE, HF, Bugs, etc... Why? because you hosted a game I was in and clearly can see my meta from there. Instead you cherry pick 3 posts. Now the first one isnt even me being aggressive. I will give you a post for comparison from my mafia meta in end of the world + Show Spoiler + On March 04 2019 06:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote: What the fuck is this post. I honestly for most of this time thought you were just a bad townie but like the fuck is this shit? You don't want to kill the policy lynch in a few hours because the guy claims to have read his pm then aside from one post has done dick fuck all. You then say you want Palmar as mayor over HF because you trust Palmar over HF to find mafia. Why? What reason do you have that Palmar will do a better job. Also to iterate what other people have said. HF wants to lynch Oats just like you do..... for fuck sakes dude. In regards to the other 2 posts you use? Shit on the thread? Didn't provide alternatives. Disinformation, Ruxxar, Calix, You. All people Ive mentioned as alternatives. Now before you Go screaming thread sentiment. Or (as this leads into your next point of my scum reads only being people who scum read me) I bring up, Disinformation, and Ruxxar before either of them begins scumreading me. I will give you that my read on you is almost in direct relation to you posting at myself. Why? Because you are actively trying to fabricate shit that doesn't exist. You have actively chosen to ignore large parts of my filter to create a nice story to accuse me with. Also trying to throw shade on me for not trying to get my preferred lynch killed when literally no one aside from bugs was even willing to vote that way? Again, scummy as hell dude. So fuck it. People want to kill me, go for it. However the trade of me for artanis is a good one. Ill gladly go 1 for 1 with you buddy. + Show Spoiler + On May 22 2019 05:42 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Has the pull? Maybe? We have like what? less than 7 hours before the deadline and I leave for work in about an hour. Between now and then i'm not around. Even if you doubt his level of pull, he got an auto sheep vote already, and other people actively talking about swinging that way. Given that I think Artanis is showing his mafia hand why wouldnt I at least push back? Dude. The guy clearly cherry picked my filter / created a false scenario of events on how I am playing. No idea where Koshi appeared in this list. Either way, still same 3 scum reads as before. His vote wasn't on ruxxar because he voted Artanis... on his own but was afk so it's whatever. Maybe even +++ points because he was one of the leading wagons and didn't vote to save himself at that point in any way despite knowing he had to go afk. Post-D1 Flip/N1 Reads + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2019 07:20 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I r back now and fuck, sorry guys. The way Ruxxar was playing I thought the read was right =\ Even if my voted wasn't on him, my read still played a huge part in his death. As for the newest events of the last 20 pages or so. No Bugs, after al that has been said and done, I wont be agreeing to kill VE. I voted for him (briefly) for the same reasons I started to lose my read of HF in the last game. Having time to sit back, think, and reflect I just can't kill him atm. Looking at the thread trying to be impartial again to avoid the tunnel mentality and the adversity from contrary reads VE looks good. and his reasonings for the slight changes between games makes sense. Can't kill him as of yet. Looking at the thread now, especially during the night phase. I would say this. Rayn, HF, VE, Koshi (i hate saying this), all look decent and should be where any protective roles we have be sitting. As much I know that I am on that list because I know that I am 100% town, given that basically no one else thinks so, leave me to potential bullets. Bugs, and I personally would say Jock, basically lives in the same zone that I am. That leaves everyone else. There is enough consensus now on Artanis that although the way I got my initial read on him was completely stupid, he has continued to post in a way that I still think is mafia. Plus the people who seem to be playing better than me agree on it so I feel a bit more sure. the other 2 I feel are scattered between Callix, Igrok, Conversion and Disinformation. Im trying to avoid tunneling like I have been, because I can see that I have been now. I need to reread Calix and Igrok as through tunneling artanis, ruxxar and disinformation I more or less left them by the wayside. Sorrow at Ruxxar's flip, summary disagreeing with Bugs on VE. Rayn, HF, VE, Koshi look decent and should be protected. Still on Artanis. rest are in between Calix (his upgraded to town read read (inconsistent!), Igrok (he defends him repeatedly), Conversion (he town read him???????) and disformation (still seemingly on one post......). These look very incongruent with everything he's said before the flip so I'm not really sure how he gets this list in the slightest! PoE? Needs to reread Calix and iGrok as tunelling 3 scum reads let them slip by (but he town read calix?). + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2019 07:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Bugs. I will fully agree that my first major read on Artanis was after he tunnel dove me and said shit I know is wrong. Your reason for why i was super pissed is right though. I gave him a pass, got shat on by him for giving him that pass, had my filter misinterpreted and shit made up. So I will fully admit I got pissed and tunneled on him. Now. Do I still think hes mafia? yes, but hes currently the only read I had that I am committed to. That is also concentrating mainly on the last 24ish hours as well. Defends VE some more, wants to policy shoot bugs for claiming mafia. Koshi dislike. Afk's rest of night - not really any new info this whole night and bit of an inconsistent who to scum read post. Overall not awful but nothing special. Just existing. D2 Reads + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2019 19:21 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Well, be it vet or Jailer, good work last night. It almost makes up for our screw up D1. Now let us learn from our mistakes and get this lynch right. TBH Based on yesterdays escapades the current people to start the day looking at to lynch. Myself Calix Igrok Artanis Possibly add in Disinformation/Conversation. However as much as I know I am town, there is enough suspicion that we need to sort me out as well as the other 3. We have all been accused / still being accused of being mafia so as much as you all have your other reads. (please do share them clearly) Consolidation on a lynch priority barring some new pressing information everyone should be weighing in on this group. If nothing else it forces everyone to hard stance enough and prevents people from waffling or "appearing" and not actually providing substance. I think we can all agree on this? I hope so at least. I have posted my reasons already on Artanis. Even with everything that has happened and taking a step back I can still see him bleeding red. Callix I could see flipping red, however I havent been able to keep a stable read on her all game. I saw her as red based purely on her opening post. There are other posts that reinforce that decision but at the same time there are a ton that I see being made specifically from the mindset from someone who is town. Given that my biggest reason for ever seeing her as scum was basically the same reason I saw ruxxar as scum I would say she is a lower priority to kill than the me/igrok/artanis group. Igrok. I really haven't spent much time on him. Going to go do that now, but I will honestly say based on everything I can currently remember from day 1. The worst thing he did was the weird association between HF/Ruxxar/Calix? List of Calix/Himself??/iGrok/Artanis Possibly add disformation/conversion N1 reads: Artanis/Calix/igrok/disformation/conversion Then he votes Artanis, defends iGrok again. I really don't understand the read because it doesn't look like that at all, static Calix/HF is mafia read not being updated all game. But then he links to posts which make him feel that way and it feels internally consistent for BC to make this read, so no hate for it. Gets into some argument with Calix which I don't hate, seems irrelevant though and about game styles. Backs up his Artanis post. Asks disfo why he town reads artanis for case on bc which is consistent with BC hating it (obviously). Asked who if not artanis to vote for then said Calix but not 100%, may just dislike her style. Says iGrok probably town. Links meta to Artanis saying that he's totally different and that Artanis was even an observer in the game. Says he wouldn't shoot Koshi. At this point I'm really bored. If you're reading this part please post a "hello hf" in the thread so I know you're actually reading and you can get a free town read! Doesn't dislike iGrok case. Explains thread hostility with working together. + Show Spoiler + On May 25 2019 20:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote: 1. To BC: do you agree with the case on iGrok? I see some merit in it, but I also feel like its somewhat fabricated. Everything of Igrok I see comes off as townish for the most part. My biggest issue is that Koshi is hard town reading him. 2. To both of you: can you again provide a list of all your reads? Town BC Bugs VE(i know right) Null to lean town HF Rayn Igrok Jock Null to Lean Mafia Koshi Conversion Mafia Artanis Calix Disinformation I Not inconsistent. Starts to dislike disformation for being himself. TL;DR D1 - really inconsistent Jock reads inconsistent - lies? Ever since Artanis read to latch onto internally consistent logic and reads, not awful looking Don't hate his iGrok defences retrospectively because they appear to point out not awful things - looked bad at time in context of thread to me Post D1 flip has done not much but shows thinking about the game, calm cool and collected, trying to get info on people and disformation. Seems to just be responding rather than digging sometimes but lack of presence can do that. Conclusion: fucking wasted my time writing this wall and he's probably town Feel free to make your own conclusions on his jock stances and first part of d1 reads meta consistent with town game too probably this post while having a lot of content is actually really trash now that I've properly read it No idea how HF comes to a town read on BC after posting most of this stuff. | ||
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On May 26 2019 14:22 Koshi wrote: Artanis is likely with hf calling him out playing heroes 😁. Calix is like 95% HF d3 Artanis d4 Calix 95% d5 Gl hf (Really last post) I don't think this is right because only Calix being on this team has reason for shooting you. And it makes her look really awful if you die and not rayn. I think it's far more likely that if Calix is on the scumteam, it's VE/Calix/BC. I think VE/Calix/HF doesn't really sound plausible here. In general though I think the shot on you is intended to implicate Calix more than give her breathing room because she was doing fine defending herself, so I find it less likely that Calix is on the team. I'd go with VE/BC/HF first. Then possibly VE/BC/Calix second choice. VE and BC are almost certainly scum together here. That pairing makes a lot of things make sense. | ||
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I am 95% sure on VE/BC/HF here. | ||
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On May 26 2019 15:10 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Rofl bugs. If you are actually town you reads and play have been so off. I super hope you are mafia and this is all a mafia trick to make a mafia vig come off as town. Like I want to die but your read in me is terribly wrong. Artanis Disinformation Calix Maybe HF. *shrugs* Again hope I eat the bullet You listed 3 townies and then a maybe scum. Cool. Literally no one has those first 3 together as scum except you. | ||
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Like what is even VE's scum list at this point? Does he even fucking have one? Oh wait, I guess he posted this: On May 26 2019 12:06 VisceraEyes wrote: Jailers act into HF myself rayn Koshi Vigs act into Calix Artanis BC Bugs ROFL the fact that he doesn't consider me 100% confirmed town here is scummy as fuck. There is no way he is town. And he's pointing jailers at himself and HF. Holy shit | ||
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On May 26 2019 15:13 BloodyC0bbler wrote: And you've been wrong on ruxxar (so was i) You were wrong on igrok You are wrong about me. So given I don't trust your reads based on that perhaps mine are more realistic. I was not wrong on iGrok, I thought he was going to flip jailkeeper for like 80% of yesterday. I at least got the alignment right. I mended my reads with HF because I thought we needed to cooperate more. He didn't listen to me. | ||
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Jock iGrok and his reads on both of you and VE are trash, and multiple players now are scumming him as they've figured out he's not town here. Jock finds him scummy, I find him scummy now, rayn finds him scummy, Koshi finds him scummy, Calix finds it weird that he mostly posts scummy shit about you but concludes you're town, iGrok found him scummy, ruxxar found him scummy HF is scum bro. And if you can't see that, then you're probably scum with him. | ||
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Ah right, I forgot you're not reading anything when I tried to off VE all day yesterday. There was no moving anyone's votes off iGrok there. rayn and Koshi have been doing their own thing all game, and the rest of us tried to keep Artanis alive because we have real reasons for reading him town. Your reads are in the weeds and they have been all game long. | ||
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On May 26 2019 15:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Being mad is a one of my mafia things sure. But the thread being borderline unreadable is true. Hell I'm pretty sure bugs played in the game I hardcore raged on toadestern for spam shit. I play mafia to have fun. I wasn't and really aren't having fun and as much as I have tried to change that the same atmosphere returns. People kill.me go for it. I'll play the let's see how right I am game I'm 100% with you here but I don't believe you've done anything to fix the problems. You got basic facts wrong and took a diplomatic stance between VE and me when it should be fairly obvious which one of us is town. And I'm confirmed town now and VE is not calling me town, and he's calling HF town over me. That's actually pretty bad no matter how you put it. | ||
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On May 26 2019 15:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I posted my scum list with Hf on it and you're mad? Or was that to ve HF is the FOURTH person on your list. He should be #1 or #2. | ||
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On May 26 2019 15:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote: My read on igrok was correct while you all yelled at me bro. Sure there's a chance I'm wrong on Artanis. I'll agree to that fully. However you just said you offed someone you thought was town. Like =/ Do you not understand my frustration? Even if my scum read a are wrong don't you get it? umm nope cause you just got basic thread events wrong and you did not lift a finger to help me save iGrok. You could've tried convincing me to move my vote or why Artanis was scum there over iGrok but you didn't do that | ||
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On May 26 2019 15:21 Jockmcplop wrote: I do think he's scum. Absolutely. Kill him with fire. BUT Isn't it just so fucking tl.net mafia to follow hf into a mislynch on day 2 and then end up killing town hf for it on N2/D3? That just kinda seems like the sorta thing we would do as town. Still... Kill him to death. nah his defense of both BC and VE is just unacceptable He lists like 50 things in that giant post that are on the whole scummy and then concludes town BC. It just comes out of nowhere BC was also raging at koshi being shot and I 100% believe he'd be mad here that his team could've gotten away with so much more if koshi died on n1 rather than reaching this situation where we now have essentially 4-5 confirmed townies | ||
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On May 26 2019 15:24 Jockmcplop wrote: WBG you didn't try to save iGrock though. You were telling people to vote for him until no-one was left in the thread. Don't pull that shit. I did try to save him, just no one wanted to vote VE. I wanted to vote VE and no one else yesterday but HF strong-armed us into iGrok and it was an objectively good case. iGrok fucked off and did nothing the last two hours when I was pleading with him to just read what I wrote on VE and Artanis. Like there was 0 chance I would kill Artanis over iGrok, and if I saved iGrok by killing Artanis it would look way worse as iGrok is 100x the lynchbait that Artanis is | ||
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On May 26 2019 15:25 Jockmcplop wrote: ONE GUY TRIED TO SAVE iGROCK DIDN'T HE BUT NO-ONE WAS UP FOR IT INCLUDING YOU?! look if it's 6 votes on iGrok and 5 votes on Artanis and I believe Artanis is townier than iGrok Why would I waste my vote there? Literally no one was engaging me on VE. I suppose I could've used my confirmed towniness more but I was getting buried in the thread and I didn't want to make the atmosphere even worse. Also given that I controlled the lynch on day 1 I also didn't want to just piss everyone off and go ham when we had a fair amount of agreement that iGrok looked really bad. I tried all day to convince HF and it was just going nowhere. | ||
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I see some merit in it, but I also feel like its somewhat fabricated. Everything of Igrok I see comes off as townish for the most part. My biggest issue is that Koshi is hard town reading him. 2. To both of you: can you again provide a list of all your reads? Town BC Bugs VE(i know right) Null to lean town HF Rayn Igrok Jock Null to Lean Mafia Koshi Conversion Mafia Artanis Calix Disinformation [quote] why the hell does he nullread Jock, conversion, Koshi, rayn, AND HF? Like this is possibly the whackiest list any player has made in the entire game | ||
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1. To BC: do you agree with the case on iGrok? I see some merit in it, but I also feel like its somewhat fabricated. Everything of Igrok I see comes off as townish for the most part. My biggest issue is that Koshi is hard town reading him. 2. To both of you: can you again provide a list of all your reads? Town BC Bugs VE(i know right) Null to lean town HF Rayn Igrok Jock Null to Lean Mafia Koshi Conversion Mafia Artanis Calix Disinformation why the hell does he nullread Jock, conversion, Koshi, rayn, AND HF? Like this is possibly the whackiest list any player has made in the entire game. On May 26 2019 15:35 Jockmcplop wrote: We kill hf as fast as possible. You gave a gun to a townie? Will they kill hf? I'd like you explain as if to a child how you koshi's claim is good since iGrock died. I'm not following the PoE. Its like the most important thing I don't know how to do.. PoE stuff. My brain can't figure out how you lot are all figuring it out. 1. Yes, I'm 99.99% certain a townie has my gun. 2. Unless a jailer comes forward, Koshi is a confirmed veteran because there was no death on n1. 3. Fairly certain anyone except BC and VE would kill HF at this point, and the person I gave my gun to is no different I think. Not sure anyone would shoot VE besides me though so just putting it out there that he is my #1 choice for a shot. And he just asked for jailers to be aimed at himself, HF, rayn, and koshi, ignoring the fact that I'm also confirmed town here (in fact he aimed vigis at me???) 4. The POE logic is fairly simple. HF didn't listen to any good arguments about why iGrok was town and strongarmed us into the lynch. I thought iGrok had a strong chance of flipping jailer, which is why I initially scummed both rayn and koshi, but when iGrok did not flip jailer I knew it was much less likely there is one. If a jailer ever comes forward, we kill Koshi, but at this point I'm 99.99% sure there is no jailer. Since none of the blue claims have been counterclaimed, all 3 of myself, Koshi, and rayn are confirmed town. From there, I am sure on nothing else this game except that VE is scum. His scum list proves it. He's scum with BC, who lists Artanis, Calix, and disfo as the scumteam with a maybe? on HF. VE himself lists me (??????) BC Calix artanis, and who the fuck knows what HF is going to dump in the thread. VE and BC are literally the only two players left that hard read HF as town. They also all hard read each other as town, though VE is distancing himself from BC now, and there is no reason for any of them to have those reads on each other. Their reads put together make the least sense in the game. Like I don't think anyone else except BC includes disfo, Calix, and Artanis together as top 3 candidates for being scum. However assuming one of them is wrong, the next likeliest candidate is probably Calix, because she would have had a strong motivation to kill Koshi on n1. | ||
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On May 26 2019 15:54 Jockmcplop wrote: Right I'm all in. Probably not going to be in the thread much today, but I say that every day and then I'm here anyway. Make them see, Bugs. If hf isn't scum he's the mislynch king. But he is scum. yeah whichever two of me, rayn, and koshi are alive will lead town and vote together. Like we are guaranteed to vote as a block. And I think if HF is alive he becomes the lynch because all 3 of us agree he is scum. I think if we lynch in this order: HF/BC/Calix/Artanis We win the game. Like, disformation, conversion, etc. are not listed by enough players for them to be scum here, it just doesn't make sense, and their reads are perfectly fine and I townread them otherwise. Both VE and BC's read lists make 0 sense and due to associations on HF, who we all seem to think is scum, they're probably all scum together. No other trio has as many associations where all 3 share the same weirdass reads. | ||
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On May 26 2019 16:00 wherebugsgo wrote: yeah whichever two of me, rayn, and koshi are alive will lead town and vote together. Like we are guaranteed to vote as a block. And I think if HF is alive he becomes the lynch because all 3 of us agree he is scum. I think if we lynch in this order: HF/BC/Calix/Artanis We win the game. Like, disformation, conversion, etc. are not listed by enough players for them to be scum here, it just doesn't make sense, and their reads are perfectly fine and I townread them otherwise. Both VE and BC's read lists make 0 sense and due to associations on HF, who we all seem to think is scum, they're probably all scum together. No other trio has as many associations where all 3 share the same weirdass reads. HF/BC/Calix/Artanis is assuming VE dies tonight of course. If HF dies tonight then it's VE/BC/Calix/Artanis whatever. | ||
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On May 26 2019 16:14 Holyflare wrote: Imagine calling the guy town and voting him but then scum reading the guy that wrote a case on him :D That's you buddy. I'm confirmed town. You're probably getting shot in the dick tonight anyway. | ||
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On May 26 2019 16:17 Holyflare wrote: I don't think you are. Its extremely likely you have a mafia vig and will try and claim a shot on me. if I had a mafia vig I would have killed two people N1. I'm not a fucking scrublord at scum like you | ||
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On May 26 2019 16:20 Holyflare wrote: Just in case anyone is a fucking moron. I am hard claiming jailor. who did you target n1 | ||
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he should've lynched Koshi if he's jailer | ||
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On May 26 2019 16:20 Holyflare wrote: Just in case anyone is a fucking moron. I am hard claiming jailor. Jailer - Targets a player each night, that player is both protected from being killed and roleblocked (unable to use any powers that night). The targeted player is still susceptible to other effects.[Optional] lel | ||
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On May 26 2019 16:27 Holyflare wrote: Everything you write is so fake and unbelievable. That's your mafia weakness unfortunately. Now you've decided to turn it to me that was your biggest mistake. you're gonna have to figure out who I sent the gun to in order to actually make it to d3 lol You won't be there to save VE and BC | ||
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tl;dr: to the person who has my gun, shoot HF or VE. Lynch order is this: HF/VE BC Calix Artanis gg | ||
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On May 26 2019 17:45 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I'd laugh (if hfs claim is legit) that he stopped kp via his power by hitting scum with it no idea how you know who he targeted when he actually didn't answer my question in the thread. Anyway, y'all can leave me alive and try to get me lynched. You all know that even if I get lynched I will gladly trade myself 1 for 3. This game is over. HF VE BC | ||
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On May 26 2019 17:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Honestly shooting me may be best tbh, even if just to get Koshi/Jock to stop tunneling me and re-eval. no, you're not scum. HF, VE, and BC are the scumteam. | ||
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I'm sorry rayn and Koshi for not believing your claims. Rayn I didn't believe your claim because it sounded fake + you would have needed to not read your role PM to do what you did on d1 and I didn't believe you would do that. Koshi I literally did not believe your claim because you bolded and coloured the role name LOL if HF is town jailer here he never would claim during the night. He would hold his claim until day because then he can try to actually get a prot off to delay the game a half-cycle, and it has the exact same impact on the game. Also if he doesn't claim, mafia will shoot into one of the other claimers or search for the jailer, and if the latter that means he has a chance to eat the mafia shot and become a dead confirmed townie. | ||
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On May 26 2019 18:03 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I really don't think so, but if you're right I don't see how you can lynch them when Jock/Koshi/Rayn are much more interested in Me/Calix. HF is also right that people need to realize it was a town/town day. Also, please look into disfo and tell me what you see. nah Jock will be on my side. Like seriously, there are two possible scenarios that happen here. They leave me alive, and I will either get one of them lynched (probably VE/HF depending on who my gunholder shoots) or I will get lynched, become confirmed gunsmith, and then you lynch the two remaining scum between VE/HF/BC in the following 2 cycles. Your read on BC was correct. My read on VE was correct. Jock, Koshi, rayn, ruxxar, iGrok were all correct on HF. GG. Calix is not scum. Artanis is not scum. disformation is not scum. conversion is not scum. There are no scum teams that make sense that contain any of these players. HF is dead tonight, and if not it seems like they're angling to keep me alive for tomorrow and we'll just lynch him then. koshi and rayn know what's up. No town jailer claims a few hours into the night when the mafia RB takes precedence, especially when by trying for a save he could ensure victory by delaying the game another half cycle. | ||
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On May 21 2019 11:30 ruXxar wrote: Bugs sounding like a broken record and repeating yourself ad nauseam doesnt make the genie pop out of bottle and make your wish of me being mafia come true. It does however make me think youre just a dumb town tunneling. Unless youre scum buddy with calix trying to deflect his lynch(which i find unlikely after your call out post), youre just stuck in the typical town ego trap of mafia read confirmation bias. Your ego wont allow you to back down from this lynch now that youve put so much into it. I see no point why you as mafia would keep pushing me at this point. Thats fine, i get it, ive been there. Ill just ignore you from now on as youre very clearly too deep in the hole to think rationally any longer. I do want to bring attention to the huge momentum swing we’ve had in activity from certain players. The beginning of the game was a big shitshow dominated by the presence of rayn and hf. Both of which have gone either completely silent(rayn) or currently do not give a shit(hf) Rayn really outed himself in a dumb way that i dont think mafia would do. He took a what i would consider big gamble by goung full retard. He was on the chopping block for a while but made it out alive. Hes very likely town at this point. Hf on the other hand, is currently playing a masterful scum game. Hes controlling his thread presence well, but has basically taken no hard scum stances on anyone. Hes wobbling and flaky in his reads and he refuses to take a stance on the main wagons by either defending or pushing them (calix and me). Lately he seems very content with where the thread is heading and is very indifferent to the outcome of this lynch, despite claiming that i was not scum earlier and refusing to make up a fresh opinion. I see no real motivation behind his actions besides his content in letting this lynch play out. HF reeks of scum and is almost certain to flip mafia at this point, summing up the development of his thread interaction, lack of real motivation and indifference to the current situation. Tldr: Bugs is dumbo town. Rayn is town. HF is mafia. ##vote holyflare man I really regret killing this guy best single read in the game right here | ||
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bro we got this, you know this is the scum team I'll even let you lynch Calix if you want LOL. I'm sure she wouldn't mind being inserted in there However HF comes first, if he's alive tomorrow. | ||
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On May 26 2019 18:29 Holyflare wrote: You should be modkilled bugs. for what? Saying I didn't believe Koshi's roleclaim because it didn't match the veteran role in the OP? For saying the role you claimed doesn't match the spelling in the OP? For saying that rayn would never claim town vanilla either before OR after reading his role PM once he claimed PC later and didn't back off of it? Come now, if we're gonna talk modkills don't tell me you didn't do the same thing with rayn at start of D1. You knew he was a PR there. It's not a modkill-worthy offense to take advantage of thread-public knowledge for the advance of your win condition. | ||
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On May 26 2019 18:30 Holyflare wrote: Like now I know your claim is legit because: you talked about your host given role pm and how it was formatted and it's just like mine so you will never ever be lynched by me or campaigned for being mafia I mean, I didn't quote the PM at all? That's literally how my role appears, I'm going to claim it as I received it, and state that it does not match what's in the OP because that's the truth. Like, I didn't believe Koshi's roleclaim partly because it was bolded and in blue and that does not match what was clarified publically in this thread. | ||
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I mean, if I don't state that and someone asks me why it doesn't match the OP I'm supposed to answer what exactly? The host made a mistake? | ||
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you're trying to get me modkilled for something you're insinuating that you did yourself at the beginning of the game? | ||
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On May 26 2019 18:56 Calix wrote: @WBG you are correct. I do not mind being included in the POE, being mislynched, or even losing the game at this point. The reason I didn't think BC's rage post was mafia was because I could relate to how unpleasant the game was. Although my feelings aren't as vitriolic as BC's, I have found playing this game [the spam and the rayn/ Koshi tunnel in particular] to be an unpleasant experience and I refuse to put myself through that again. The fact that I will likely be alive for at least another 90-odd hours fills me with dread. yeah I'm really sorry that you were put through that ringer and honestly everything I said about how I feel about this game was 100% true. Like you have no idea how much I wanted Koshi and rayn to be scum here, because the fact that they are not means I will never play in a game with either of them in the player list ever again. Sorry Koshi and rayn if this sounds harsh but you cannot do what you did day 1 to Jock and Calix, and then completely ruin the experience for people, cause mental stress and anguish and then expect anyone to want to play with you ever again. To then say in thread repeatedly that mafia are ones wanting to get you modkilled (I will freely put my hand up and say if I had the ability to smite both of you out of the game I would have) is just adding insult to injury. I hope you reflect on what you did this game because I can guarantee that this is a big reason why the forum seems so dead lately. | ||
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On May 26 2019 19:05 Holyflare wrote: Unbelievable lol. I can't believe you are real and still think I'm mafia with BC :D :D :D ahahaha trust me you had me pretty good and if iGrok had flipped blue I would have just lynched rayn and Koshi honestly those two deserved it with those claims. They were more mafia than the actual mafia | ||
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and then I saw your fake claim at 4:30 a.m. and I was like...he's baiting me right now isn't he. That FUCKER and then went to sleep LOL | ||
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On May 26 2019 19:06 disformation wrote: oh ffs... if you guys manage to get yourselves modkilled ill bitch slap you post game. well guess its prolly art + ve + whoever im wrong on in conv/calix then cant remember whatever ve has done with his 40pg filter tbh. but im hardclaiming an headache and wont look at that filter rn how the fuck do you still wow I guess HF BC and VE still have the ability to win this game somehow I think I can literally get lynched and the scumteam is just gonna drop their pants on your head | ||
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townies literally more mafia than the mafia. it doesn't get any better than this | ||
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On May 26 2019 19:09 Holyflare wrote: Rayn and Koshi have largely just afkd d2 and auto voted actual mafia so I don't particularly think they've been toxic at all lately. You've essentially driven off VE, got 2 people probably modkilled, made iGrok leave the thread and auto lynch himself and not given town BC a chance to play. Then berated the only town guy that made cases for the whole of d2 for being wrong and blamed him for the game state while claiming he's now mafia while you lynched your town read. LOL | ||
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I probably did not read a good 40% of the posts | ||
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On May 26 2019 19:11 Holyflare wrote: It shows it shows how god awful I am at this game that I actually still think I might be wrong about you HAHAHA | ||
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y'all have fun not lynching HF BC and VE, the towniest mafia team I've ever played with | ||
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idgaf about this game anymore actually just wanna see you all win now | ||
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was VE scared? or mad? LOL | ||
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On May 26 2019 19:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I dunno? Again, not scum bugsy wugsy. Shame you can't see through that. sigh I don't wanna play anymore | ||
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imagine if I gave any of you three a gun this game I almost gave it to HF too that fucker | ||
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On May 26 2019 19:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote: rofl, sad thing is id be shooting someone you want to die Bugs, thats the sad thing. no that's not fucking sad at all | ||
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On May 26 2019 19:41 BloodyC0bbler wrote: it is when you think im scum though, lol. Would bullet time VE so hard just to remove him from the game. he's already gone though he like disappeared I wonder what that means everyone who has done that so far is town | ||
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On May 26 2019 19:42 Jockmcplop wrote: The absolute saddest thing is I kinda want Koshi to come back and spam the shit out of the thread again. I wanna read what he thinks LOL | ||
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On May 26 2019 06:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Jesus flying fuck at this game. If anyone wonders why I have more or less vanished from the game it is seriously the last 25 pages or so of shit, like holy fuck. THIS game is a very clear reason of many issues I had which led me to quit playing Mafia. Like this is a shit show. Anyone at this point has a logical reason to just not want to play, regardless of alignment. Because its the most ridiculous thing in the world to read full of vitrol and hate. Lets pretend for even 1 moment that HF's claim (which he redacted) is real. Why would any of you think that Bugs would ever listen to you guys when he has a gun? As mafia he just shoots who he wants. He would only shoot the other wagon if it was going to kill another townie. Otherwise he shoots a "scum" read or some shit. As town, when he thinks 90% of you are shitters he will just shoot who he wants. Now heres the thing, HE HAS ALREADY CLAIMED PR. He didn't claim what he has, he just claimed he was one. Now, that means if he isn't CCing that he is A) A vig, which can be either of alignment B) he is the jailkeeper who thinks hes the reason KP was blocked last night was him C) Hes a lying mafia asshat who is scared shitless of a confirmed town. NOW, speaking of confirmed town. Say for some flying fuck wild ride that Koshi is legit a Veteran and stopped a shot. Who the fuck would shoot him? Like seriously. No one has even remotely considered who in their right might shoots Koshi. The guy literally has bare bones reasons to his reads, in some case he has no reasons and just posts / parrots other people. He spams the thread, is widely ignored, but is essentially helping mafia. Why do they shoot him? Only someone who actually thought he was threatening that no one else was. You guys can go read that if you want. Why do I say this? Because the "vet" players in this game are 100% more likely to shoot Koshi as vigi's over being mafia. Like the sheer level of dumb in this thread. (Me included, im not saying im not guilty of it). People are being given a free pass for tons of shit. Rayn - acting like a troll day 1, fake claims, gets out of a "lynch" becomes non entity. Conversion - where the fuck is he. He is such a non entity that he more or less appears, says a few things of basically nothing, mimics sentiment or defends himself and vanishes Disinformaion - Literally this games defiinition of a parrot. He has basically 0 thoughts that are his own, spews out other peoples cases to justify his own shit, asks questions, then pisses off with nothing new. In fact he constantly brings up shit the thread has moved past to re clutter it with the same debates. Jock - Where the fuck is he. Outside of day 1, what has he done, where is he, why should I care about him. He is such a non entity with everything going on I barely ever remember hes in this game. VE - You argue and fight everything. You are extremely combative this game and part of the reason I can't tell between you and bugs who should die to clean the thread. I purposely and reading you both as town so I can skim posts now. you both are responsible for half the stuff that makes the thread so terrible. STOP FIGHTING WITH EACHOTHER and spending pages upon pages upon pages burying everything else. HF - You are being productive now but you werent for ages. I had more but you have started to actually well play. Long as you keep it up your general laziness / apathy day 1 can be ignored. Igrok - You don't know why you are up for the lynch? You have been basically for the last 72 hours. It was you or Artanis. Not sure how you can appear and disappear as frequently as you do and not even know where the thread sentiment / votes are. However, this is a case (as much as everyone will call me terrible for it) of why you are likely dumb town and not scum. Artanis and Calix are literally non stop talked about, and so am I. I know my filter is full of shit so feel free to kill me for it. Youd be doing me a favour. dude like look at this amazing post BC just wrecked the entire scumteam here | ||
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On May 26 2019 19:50 Jockmcplop wrote: That post is like the rosetta stone of this game imo let's hydra next game if we roll scum again it'll be great | ||
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I think we just sheep HF BC and VE this game cause they got it on lock. How do you feel about that yeah? I'm just gonna like RNG my vote between whoever one of those 3 is voting and then like we'll eventually win the game I think | ||
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On May 26 2019 20:31 VisceraEyes wrote: I've been mafia on iGrok and Calix all game. You might know this if you gave a shit or were reading any of my posts. You aren't/haven't though in spite of what you say. I'm reading both of your posts and BC's and Jock's too hell I'll count Calix, Artanis, and conversion too tally em up | ||
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On May 26 2019 20:32 Koshi wrote: You fucker. Yesterday 100% town when I voted her. nah dude she's mafia here we all are | ||
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On May 26 2019 20:34 VisceraEyes wrote: AND NOW LOOK WHERE WE ARE AS IT TURNS OUT BUGS ENDED UP BEING AN IMPORTANT FACTOR AS IT TURNS OUT BUGS TOWNREADING ME ENDED UP BEING ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTORS GOING FORWARD IN THE GAME AS IT TURNS OUT THIS IS THE FIFTH FUCKING PRESCIENT THING VE HAS DONE IN THIS GAME I'd townread you again bb | ||
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On May 26 2019 20:35 VisceraEyes wrote: GO STRAIGHT TO HELL AND STOP POSTING TO ME but do I get that $200 tho | ||
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we killed a scum guys congrats | ||
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On May 26 2019 20:38 Holyflare wrote: Bugs, for someone that has complained about toxic you're sure not helping. I channeled foolishness this game so far don't make me channel Ace bro or even better VE I'LL DO IT I SWEAR | ||
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On May 26 2019 20:46 Holyflare wrote: Amusingly I think bugs has done the most to sow distrust in this town than anyone else lol /notroll yeah probably my play is really legitimately confusing I guess, like how I get to conclusions | ||
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On May 26 2019 20:47 Holyflare wrote: Bugs is confirmed town, he used his role pm as evidence. BC and HF too | ||
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On May 26 2019 20:48 VisceraEyes wrote: And I WONT be witness to bugs trolling the shit out of me the rest of the game. you're not fucking me are you VE cause you BETTER NOT BE FUCKING ME VE + Show Spoiler + but if you are don't stop now | ||
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he claimed VT! | ||
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duplicate the gun and pass it around like you get a gun and you get a gun | ||
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On May 26 2019 20:56 Jockmcplop wrote: It's fun watching mafia flail around when they realise they don't have perfect information any more. oh bro you just TOWNslipped we can't be having that in here | ||
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We kill all the confirmed VTs in the game. But before we do that We kill HF and then we kill VE cause I don't like either of them And then we kill Artanis Or we kill Artanis tomorrow that works too And then And then we kill BC for being a VT. But we kill HF first cause he's a gunsmith jailer VT. k? no one will read this | ||
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On May 27 2019 04:35 Holyflare wrote: I don't know what a VT is but I'm a vt I wouldn't know I'm a VT | ||
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it'll be fine | ||
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On May 27 2019 04:50 Jockmcplop wrote: Of course?!?!? What are you gonna do, give it to a vt?? lol :D you better pop that VT HF like an egg | ||
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apologies all to my play this game, please don't take anything I said seriously. | ||
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Ahahahaa agreed Fuck me indeed I’m gonna host a game so I don’t contribute to another shit show. Sorry VE, really thought you were playing for scum here, your play looked so different and I could barely follow the thread. Even not reading nearly half of the posts I could barely understand what was happening or why | ||
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On May 30 2019 15:03 Artanis[Xp] wrote: N1 we frame jock and shoot Koshi N2 we frame disfo and shoot Rayn N1/N2 Rayn checks HF/Conversion and gets different right before dying. Man the crazy thing here is that if I were a cop I would have checked disfo & conv, got back “same” and then assumed they’re both town because it agreed with my gut LOL You all played well. About when iGrok was about to flip was when I started realizing that if rayn & Koshi are both town, you probably were scum too but I couldn’t place anyone else because I was so sure on VE and VE just obviously didn’t fit with anyone. There is no way I would have concluded both conv and disfo were scum here, cause I was only really even considering disfo as an option. | ||
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On May 30 2019 15:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: Idk where that came from? bugs made the game completely unplayable for VE. Why are you so obsessed with me? If you want to get another rise out of me for whatever it’s probably never going to happen. I just don’t see the point in even playing here if this is what the community is now, like we’re just going to casually all accept that the behaviour you displayed this game toward multiple players, regardless of their actual in-game alignments, is remotely good for the future of TL mafia. This is a big reason why I took a long break. You were even in one of my last two games. They were wins, I was happy with my play, but sad at the direction of the forum. And I will admit I was pretty much just full of rage and burnout. Now i’m Just happier staying away knowing I don’t have to try to cooperate with people like you just to try to enjoy a game I used to really love. | ||
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On May 30 2019 15:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: And what did i do that was bad? I think you just proved my point for me re: irredeemability. I’ll stop interacting with you now since it serves me no further purpose. | ||
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On May 30 2019 15:16 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Just come play voice with us this weekend! Voice is much more fun than Forum games and people don't get this tryhard. It's fantastic really. I’d love to play but I’m in an awkward time zone compared to everyone now and I am usually asleep or busy when others are active I think. Thank you for the invite though Come join my game if I can post it sometime in the next week. It’ll be a good break for me since I enjoy hosting quite a lot and I promise the setup will be interesting! It’s a new type of setup I’m trying, since I used to be obsessed with mini normals and now I wanna try putting some spice into the roles | ||
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On May 30 2019 15:28 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm not playing a forum game for a while, and if I do it'll have to be a post restricted game. I seriously could not keep up with this game and would not have kept up with it even if I was Town. I think I would've been suspected as either alignment past D1 when the game blew up simply cause I wasn't in the flow of things. When that happens I fall off regardless. I did do a bunch of things that made me scum for sure though. Would have never afked on D3 as town if I'm lined up to die. My tone was also all kinds of wrong, and I don't think I would've forgotten disfo in any list post as town :D I did it intentionally as 'scum would never forget their teammates on a list post' in the hopes of that being used later if I flipped. The game I am hosting will be very different from this one on basic mechanics. Normal cycle lengths, silent night (so no reason to troll at night to avoid roleblocks or whatever dumb traps and reasons I came up with for doing antitown things this game at night) I intend to 100% ban multi-posting (double posting okay in selected circumstances) and I intend to give lots of reminders as well as provide a ranking of players by post count and post rate compared to baseline metrics (like say targetting 30-40 pages per cycle) so that players can hopefully moderate themselves. Also let me just say that the roles are gonna be a lot more powerful hahahaha I wanna sit back and watch some of the fireworks | ||
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On May 30 2019 15:33 Grackaroni wrote: The Grackaroni Post Game Awards Show Best reads goes to: + Show Spoiler + Mr BloodyC0bbler! + Show Spoiler + On May 25 2019 20:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote: 1. To BC: do you agree with the case on iGrok? I see some merit in it, but I also feel like its somewhat fabricated. Everything of Igrok I see comes off as townish for the most part. My biggest issue is that Koshi is hard town reading him. 2. To both of you: can you again provide a list of all your reads? Town BC Bugs VE(i know right) Null to lean town HF Rayn Igrok Jock Null to Lean Mafia Koshi Conversion Mafia Artanis Calix Disinformation Post with the most potential for solving the game goes to: + Show Spoiler + Ms. Calix! + Show Spoiler + On May 27 2019 17:07 Calix wrote: As for D2, I still think his Artanis switch from this: "definitely looks less towny than BC...generally his entire filter looked good...only thing about this is I don't QUITE particularly think BC was being aggressive" to having Artanis as "probably scum" and: Where did this confidence in mafia!Artanis come from? This post would suggest he wasn't aware of anything Artanis had posted in the meantime. Then Conversion talks a bunch about iGrok and how bad he looks. But still wants Artanis dead more. Not entirely clear whether he thinks both could be mafia or whatnot. This post stood out to me as scummy because of how inconclusive it is: He proposes some explanations for why mafia!iGrok is doing what he is doing. Seems to think both Artanis/ iGrok are mafia. But his second question poses an idea that seems to dent the mafia iGrok/ Artanis idea. Yet Conversion never really goes anywhere with this. @Conversion, would you mind giving me the lowdown of your thought process at EOD1 and why you became more certain that Artanis is mafia, please? (I have read your filter but I am still asking anyway so don't blow me off) As a side note, Conversion was very skeptical of a mafia Artanis/ BC team because of their weird double OMGUS/ bussing thing. My two pence on that matter is that a lot of the BC/ Artanis stuff happened when neither of them were under much pressure and their double OMGUS/ scum-read stuff is weird AF. BC's overreaction to Artanis' scum read especially. But I think the best argument against BC/ Artanis is Artanis popping into the thread at EOD1 with a huge case on BC. This was at a time when sentiment was against BC so he could have actually died there. That would be pretty weird for a mafia to do to another mafia when you could've just settled for a ML, lol. Town MVP goes to: + Show Spoiler + ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Mafia MVP goes to: + Show Spoiler + Mr. Holyflare! + Show Spoiler + Conversion 05-24-2019 09:11 AM ET (US) wowza! that iGrok momentum. thanks HF! Case I most agreed with goes to: + Show Spoiler + Mr. Jock! + Show Spoiler + On May 26 2019 06:08 Jockmcplop wrote: Conversion he's either doing the BC scumpost thing because he hasn't given us an obvious enough scumtell yet or trying to get a reaction. It looks ridiculous if you read it though lol. WHY IS EVERYONE POSTING SO MUCH AND WHY ARE THE PEOPLE WHO AREN'T POSTING NOT POSTING AND WHY IS EVERYONE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE MAFIA ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH Biggest tilt goes to: + Show Spoiler + Mr. VE! + Show Spoiler + On May 25 2019 04:22 VisceraEyes wrote: The things Bugs is accusing me of do not make me mafia. Post that aged the worst goes to: + Show Spoiler + Mr. Bugs! + Show Spoiler + On May 26 2019 09:35 wherebugsgo wrote: well you aren't fucking reading Artanis either so you can die. I think you have to die and see this in postgame to understand how colossally anti-town you're being here. Congratulations to the mafia team. GG thanks for playing. Ahahahaha I knew that one would come back to bite me. I was just trying to get iGrok to stop tunneling HF and they were both my townreads Sorry to all 3 of VE, Calix, BC. I should have done more to collaborate with all 3 of you and I failed that pretty hard. I actually couldn’t read enough of the posts to even feel comfortable on any of my reads this game. | ||
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On May 30 2019 15:36 Fecalfeast wrote: I'd just like to say that this game I had a hard time opening up TL.net when I woke up because I knew I'd have 2+ PMs and a bunch of posts in my host qt. At one point I had 6 unread PMs during the whole modkill fiasco. RE: jockmcplop, I personally don't think someone should just be able to replace out because they are flustered or overwhelmed or whatever. If you play and post all game phase and place a vote but replace out it's not fair to the opposing team or anyone really to have to read 2 people in 1 slot in 1 day. If there's an emergency, of course I'll replace you if I can no questions asked. Take a step back, take a break from playing. Nobody is forcing you to post and nobody is forcing you to play. If you don't meet ingame requirements you will be modkilled/replaced but there's no banlist so if you don't want to play anymore, don't talk about it in game. Maybe let the host know you plan on quitting so they can prepare ahead of time if you feel nice. RE: host questions, I get that people have questions about mechanics and sometimes these things aren't covered in the OP. However, this game especially, I received multiple questions from multiple people whom will not be named that were either answered directly in the game rules or at least answered in the FAQ. Asking me a bunch different questions about how a roleblocker interacts with a certain role when you are neither role yourself is going to come off as angle shooting whether I answer or not. I prefer to answer every question I'm asked and maybe that's part of my problem but honestly this game made me rethink my policy on answering player questions. Seeing how many things that were talked about in PM used to formulate reads or otherwise used to 'solve' the game was disheartening. I said this maybe in obs but certainly privately to my cohosts: When people sign up for my games, I expect them to want to play mafia by interacting with other players within the context of the game. I don't expect them to try and game the hosts or use role PMs to find mafia... I was talking to my friend with whom I've played IRL mafia/werewolf with before and he likened it to playing real life werewolf with a deck of standard playing cards, realizing the host only picked red cards for the ones that represent villagers, and trying to find mafia based on that. It goes against the spirit of the game and while I realize nobody has disagreed with me on this, I feel the need to reiterate that fact. /endrant Hey FF I appreciate the feedback here. I’m actually just gonna be up front and admit I was the one asking about how RBs interact with parity cops in this game because I was trying to figure out 1. Why rayn would claim PC day 1 and 2. If he would know he got RBed based on the mechanics and whether I should be calling him scum on d2 based on it, and if he was alive d3 whether I should try to kill him. Like, the logic there was basically that you told me I could check my own gun after the night and essentially that would tell me if I was RBed or not. For an investigative, and based on the info in the thread about parity cops, it sounded like there was a difference between: Receiving no PM at all <—— this is what I thought PC being RBed would look like on n1 n2 Receiving a PM with no result <—— this was stated in the thread. What I thought no RB would look like for PC on n1 Then the problem is that the PC would not know which check was previously successful between n1 and n2 if getting a successful one on n3. So even if we had a PC that scum left alive till d3/d4 I felt we had no way to trust that claim or that it would have any use. Anyway probably not worth spending more time explaining my logic but I also would have just stopped asking if you had said to me or written in the thread that you weren’t going to answer any questions about roles other than the role of the questioner. Maybe you had said that and I missed it, my apologies regardless. Thank you for hosting and I’m sorry I got myself modkilled and ruined your game | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 30 2019 17:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Bugs just needed to give me a gun and not get modkilled actually I tried to change my night action to send it to you but I believe it was 10 minutes before I got modkilled and they weren't counting my night action regardless I think of all the mistakes I made, fearing sending my gun to a mafia on n1 was the biggest. I should've given it to Calix like I planned on n1 and talked out the game with her because she was the only one who seemed to be willing to cooperate with people. Like really she was the best player for town in this game, and I'd say you weren't far behind. BTW I flipped my read on you so so so many times and that was a huge mistake on my part because I had a strong day 1 townread probably 24-48 hours into the game on you. Didn't mean to ignore you at all, just was overwhelmed with too many posts. I'm about to brace myself to get modkilled postgame: To: Fecalfeast [ Profile | Report ] Subject: change night action Date: 5/27/19 04:48 give gun to BloodyC0bbler | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 31 2019 02:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh no you don't. You don't get to mis-categorize my anger. I wasn't mad at you for getting my alignment wrong. You'll notice that Calix got my alignment wrong multiple times and I never raged at her. I also wasn't mad at you for "reading me incorrectly". You weren't reading me at all, which was the infuriating part. You're generally susceptible to reason, and the fact that you made a call on my alignment without even reading or responding to what I was posting...it made me wrong. It made me either wrong about you listening to reason or it made me wrong about your alignment, and you'll notice that once you said the thing I took as a scumclaim (I play to my win condition) I quit raging about the bullshit you were accusing me of. I assumed I was just wrong on your alignment. You call my invariable presence in the thread anti-town. This is the way I play, and you among others knew that. It got me universally town-read in the last game and frankly this game too besides yourself. So your advice and others' advice is to just accept the D1 lynches for months whilst I "change my meta"? Hard pass. I have finally arrived at a style that is essentially indiscernible from my mafia play and part of it is disallowing things from happening in my absence. Rather than shoot myself in the foot and then run a marathon, I'd sooner just stick with video mafia/irl. A) no one can out-loud VE, and B) my feels based style nets better reads. I was reading you, the reason I called you scum was because of the disfo bit and pretty much that alone because it looked really bad. Had we actually talked that out d1 I think we could have killed him d1 instead of ruxxar because I would have listened to why you thought he was scum. On May 31 2019 02:14 VisceraEyes wrote: So your advice and others' advice is to just accept the D1 lynches for months whilst I "change my meta"? Hard pass. I have finally arrived at a style that is essentially indiscernible from my mafia play and part of it is disallowing things from happening in my absence. I don't have any advice for you, really, cause you're a better player than I am. From my perspective though, I can't figure out the game if you and other players are flooding the thread, so regardless of your alignment it's always in my best interest to get you killed, and I'd probably do what I did this game regardless of alignment. Last game I don't think you said anything similar to the disfo stuff even though you had quite a lot of posts there too. I think the bolded is also really important because if your mafia play basically looks the same as your town play then my take is that "this is a really good player" and if you post 25% of the posts in the game and you cannot lead a lynch to kill scum then I'll kill you because your posts seem inefficient and selfish. I think mafia is a game of cooperation and not a contest for who's better at catching scum or staying alive or whatever. e: btw on day 1 lynches if you mean that you've been lynched on day 1, not sure I really know why because I've never been lynched on day 1 essentially. I think technically 3 times in total, once because my keyboard was broken in Hammer Mini and I got insta-majority'ed, twice in heavily themed roleplaying trollfests, one where I was Chezinu and one where I was a dog. So again I have no advice here cause I do whatever I want and don't get lynched day 1 lol | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 31 2019 10:00 Holyflare wrote: For anyone that cares I made some really really inefficient code to track all of our word counts. I eliminated all the quote blocks so it's just solely all of your words. I hope :D Also, let it be known, fuck threading. BloodyC0bbler 9463 wherebugsgo 48315 Koshi 12162 Holyflare 26003 VisceraEyes 24245 Conversion 8673 Jockmcplop 14610 iGrok 6655 raynpelikoneet 11341 ruXxar 1183 disformation 13459 Artanis[Xp] 7853 Calix 15044 URL for a laugh at my coding Never done any coding before so this was an experience. All I've learnt is that bugs posts a hell of a lot of words. Nice work! I think I’m well known for that, get complaints all the time my posts are too hard to read :p I should work on word and post efficiency. | ||
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