EPTWhy do you townread VE?
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Why do you townread VE? | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On May 24 2019 23:32 wherebugsgo wrote: Calix the one thing I find interesting though is that your points on koshi/rayn equally apply to VE, if not more-so than they apply to Koshi, but you townread VE. Why do you townread VE? I did scum-read VE at one point but when I was catching up yesterday, I noticed VE was making smart comments that showed he was actually thinking about the game. And this was at a point where rayn was making dumb comments re: Conversion so it stood out even more. I'm not saying the 'smart comments' are townie in isolation. If I showed them to you, you would not understand why I think they're smart without context. But I do think that the 'not blindly going with whatever's in the thread' thing is a townie trait. | ||
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On May 24 2019 21:24 Calix wrote: You'll see that quote again later. It's scummy for the same reason iGrok's response to HF is scummy. He doesn't think HF is mafia and you don't think I'm mafia either. Catching up in the morning, just want to clarify that I do VERY MUCH think HF is mafia, and its weird to me that people think I don't. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 24 2019 23:36 Calix wrote: I did scum-read VE at one point but when I was catching up yesterday, I noticed VE was making smart comments that showed he was actually thinking about the game. And this was at a point where rayn was making dumb comments re: Conversion so it stood out even more. I'm not saying the 'smart comments' are townie in isolation. If I showed them to you, you would not understand why I think they're smart without context. But I do think that the 'not blindly going with whatever's in the thread' thing is a townie trait. Did you find any 'smart comments' that were made in the favour of someone looking scummier rather than townier? VE is an excellent scum player. If you solely find things you think are smart on the side of him defending a townread or making someone else less certain of a read, they're not alignment indicative. If you can find even a single instance of VE taking a hard stance for reasons he came up with himself this game I'll switch my reads to yours. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On May 24 2019 23:37 iGrok wrote: Catching up in the morning, just want to clarify that I do VERY MUCH think HF is mafia, and its weird to me that people think I don't. What I'm saying is that the way you worded your response post did not sound like a townie responding to a mafia read. But I'm not interested in discussing this so don't respond. I'd rather have reads and thoughts that are not prodded. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On May 24 2019 23:39 wherebugsgo wrote: Did you find any 'smart comments' that were made in the favour of someone looking scummier rather than townier? VE is an excellent scum player. If you solely find things you think are smart on the side of him defending a townread or making someone else less certain of a read, they're not alignment indicative. If you can find even a single instance of VE taking a hard stance for reasons he came up with himself this game I'll switch my reads to yours. That's a good question. I do not recall any of the comments [that I referred to as 'smart'] talking about someone being scummier. If that is the case then I should filter-dive VE at some point. Although I cannot say I'm looking forward to touching such a huge filter xD | ||
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On May 24 2019 23:25 Calix wrote: Lemme put it this way. He lacks any real conviction in his reads. This is like.... The one thing Koshi has done. Consistently called you and HF scum. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On May 24 2019 22:07 Grackaroni wrote: Day Two Vote Count iGrok (6): Holyflare, Calix, Artanis[Xp] (3): Calix (2): Holyflare(1): iGrok Wherebugsgo(0): Not voting(0): iGrok is currently set to be lynched with 6 votes. Please let us know if you notice any mistakes. The deadline is Sunday, May 26 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in BC, Conversion, Rayn, VE, Koshi and iGrok not voting for iGrok BC reasons: + Show Spoiler + On May 24 2019 05:47 BloodyC0bbler wrote: If not Art? At this moment im not 100%. I have a strong read on Calix but I'm easily able to admit that could because I extremely dislike her and my interaction before I went to bed. Waiting on me to simmer a bit on it and re read to come at it at a clear head. However atm it would be her. As for Igrok. I liked them because they show he is actively scum hunting and making notes. He calls people out for things he notices. Sure that can be faked. But it doesn't strike me as "HI IM MAFIA" and instead comes of more like "HI IM TOWN" Also he was willing to reevaluate a read over just auto locking a lynch due to new light. He may have re settled his read but actively being willing to update via new information is a good thing. Conversion reasons: Largely afk + Show Spoiler + On May 21 2019 23:09 Conversion wrote: this is such a bad post dude lol just pick someone u think is scummy and read that person. who cares about the page number On May 22 2019 10:25 Conversion wrote: ugh forgot all of EU is probably asleep.. thanks for being here. just read your post iGrok let me read through HF and Calix now. rayn: Not read anything iGrok wrote?? + Show Spoiler + Calls igrok's vote retarded or mafia Doesn't like it when I make a case on the exact thing rayn called igrok retarded or mafia for On May 20 2019 08:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: HEY THOSE ARE MY SCUMREADS! AND I DIDNT SAY SHIT S O GO FIGURE OUT YOUR OWN READS FFS! Fucking hypocrites all of you. Is actually part of Rayn's scum reads???? Was going through all mentions of iGrok and it got really fucking boring. Essentially he flipped his read on iGrok around for the deadline shenanigans and that he didn't vote ruxxar (who scum read his biggest scum read so would have looked really bad). Looks like rayn really is just not reading or thinking about igrok and his decisions as if he could be mafia at all. ++ points for at least looking into the timeline thing I was talking about, or trying to squint at it. VE reasons: + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2019 02:10 VisceraEyes wrote: iGrok, Calix, Artanis That's where I'm landing. I'm not available for questions. If I have to I'll try and stay alive, but I'm basically following the thread and voting what I think. GG Boys. On May 23 2019 19:52 VisceraEyes wrote: He literally came back and complained about the thread size and fucked off. Whatever I like your vote just ugh, igrok can easily be mafia. On May 23 2019 19:53 VisceraEyes wrote: And it's not even original, he did it before too, I memed at him. On May 24 2019 03:21 VisceraEyes wrote: Damnit rayn. ##Unvote ##Vote: iGrok Tell the the game so I can go look at it. On May 24 2019 19:24 VisceraEyes wrote: Totally satisfied with iGrok/Artanis day. Aynone not voting for one of these people SUCKS lol jk but really vote one of those two people plz. On May 24 2019 19:50 VisceraEyes wrote: I'd move my vote to make it a ballgame HF but my vote doesn't really count as pressure, at least not this game. It's more like...a breeze. My vote has been breezing all over the place. On May 24 2019 21:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Factor in iGrok was already under heavy scrutiny for "not doing anything all D1", could mafia iGrok have been like "Surely they'll accept this as an acceptable amount of contribution regardless of its veracity!" On May 24 2019 21:29 VisceraEyes wrote: You seem pretty sure about it, is there a reason why not THAT specifically? I mean if it's wrong its not like he put a crapload of thought or effort in right? On May 24 2019 21:41 VisceraEyes wrote: I mean I'm down to Calix mafia at this point anyway so like...no, I can't answer you that and I don't care to because that's about where I'm at. Maybe trying to both pseudo-contribute plus remove shade from Calix. But whatever I get it, you think it's a bit much for mafia iGrok. I would argue that it's a bit much for towniGrok too, so it's NAI, but it's whatever. Sorry if you already said this, but you're townie on Conversion right? KoshI: Help plz + Show Spoiler + On May 20 2019 17:31 Koshi wrote: He voted HF in a silly jokingly way. In a world both bugs and hf are town mafia could be Calix/Conversion and maybe iGrok for example. I am now at the part VE makes a case on him but I dont understand the case fully (why it makes him mafia). It's somewhat odd at best but I can see townie do it. iGrok I dont understand the case about. On May 20 2019 20:04 Koshi wrote: Calix is so mafia but it is fine. I cba to find the rest of mafia. I am sure you will vote the townie out of conversion and igrok. Maybe both are town and the retard police is actually mafia. On May 21 2019 03:57 Koshi wrote: I guess this lynch will fall on iGrok. On May 21 2019 06:36 Koshi wrote: Maybe kill spot 10 to 13. And iGrok. On May 21 2019 17:29 Koshi wrote: Artanis is not kill worthy due to first 2 pages of filter. After that he fell off. But still wont kill him today. iGrok idk. Guess we can give him 1 more cycle. But 50/50 to me. Dnu how he read me if people like wbg and jock cant. On May 22 2019 04:11 Koshi wrote: Igrok thinks bc, Calix and hf are mafia. Looks good. On May 22 2019 05:23 Koshi wrote: He made a case on mafia so its fine. No1 cares if there are minor flaws in it. On May 22 2019 05:54 Koshi wrote: 1. BloodyC0bbler maybe mafia. 2. Wheredobugsgoanyway? Not mafia 4. HolyFlare mafia 5. VisceraEyes Not mafia 6. Conversion Not mafia 7. Jockmcplop Not mafia 8. iGrok w.e no lynch d1 9. Raynpelikoneet Not mafia 10. ruXxar Not mafia 11. disformation Maybe mafia 12. Arty Mctanis w.e no lynch d1 13. Calix mafia On May 22 2019 05:57 Koshi wrote: 1. BloodyC0bble 4. HolyFlare 8. iGrok 11. disformation 12. Arty Mctanis 13. Calix My 6 candidates after D1. Bit afraid for Ruxxar maybe? I hesitated the most there. And rayn I don't consider till d3. On May 22 2019 07:00 Koshi wrote: iGrok if you get yourself lunched over 100% Calix and 85% mafia BC.... Sad days bro. On May 22 2019 07:06 Koshi wrote: Ohh now he is mafia. When momentum swings to iGrok and you will do everyrhing for it to stay there. Oki On May 22 2019 07:13 Koshi wrote: Oh wait. iGrok is on the list? Weird. Than I will just wait on flip. Dont think he can be mafia knowing my 5 other mafia reads are voting him bit w.e. On May 22 2019 07:15 Koshi wrote: Imagine it is rayn/iGrok/Ruxxar Laelaelaelael On May 22 2019 16:01 Koshi wrote: Calix BC And then 4 others. If we lynch BC I can make a better judgement who is left in pool. But BC has a 75% chance tops. On May 23 2019 19:26 Koshi wrote: And I still think HF is mafia. For real. I really dont think iGrok is mafia and maybe mafia is setting up the TvT with Calix/iGrok. iGrok is just not looking evil. Maybe helpless? Even though he provides his ideas. Dnu. I feel the thread has put more doubt in iGrok than he deserves for sure. On May 23 2019 19:28 Koshi wrote: No I neveraf read bugs. Also not why I townread iGrok at all. I townread him because I feel that the pressure on him is dirty. On May 23 2019 19:30 Koshi wrote: Yes. iGrok is a lynch made after more information. Like ruxxar should have been. On May 23 2019 19:38 Koshi wrote: Meh. You say weird things. You jump off Calix and I need to stay on her? Dnu bro. Lynch on Calix might be dirty because iGrok is not mafia. On May 24 2019 19:57 Koshi wrote: Oh well. RIP iGrok. I think you got lynched by mafia regardless of your alignment. On May 24 2019 19:57 Koshi wrote: Is iGrok on or of my 5 people list? I forgot again. On May 24 2019 19:59 Koshi wrote: Apparantly not. Well the 20% HF is not mafia iGrok is likely mafia. Calix HF Artanis still. BC is joker now. On May 24 2019 20:06 Koshi wrote: Calix still so mafia though. Calix Hf Artanis And we lynch igrok of all people. On May 24 2019 20:46 Koshi wrote: This game is going into the right direction unledd iGrok flips town because then you are mafia. (80%) So everything is fine as it is. On May 24 2019 21:56 Koshi wrote: I dont believe mafia is bussing iGrok like this. This guy flip flops on his reads more than anyone in the game. First igrok is mafia, then he's in a list of 6 mafia, then he's town but oh wait he's in a list as mafia again. Looks like he just spite says igrok is mafia to push calix or agenda saying he's town because people he scum reads are on igrok. Nothing is related to igrok's posts (apart from when igrok calls calix and hf mafia) but even then koshi doesn't care about the content being wrong, just the targets. He flips on igrok again at some point requoting his list and calling everyone on it mafia again and then flips back to igrok being town because the wagon on him feels dirty. Nothing is play related at all, just associative at every stage. Pretty bad looking but not out of the realm of town koshi sooooooooooo hedge :D Honestly, they all look pretty bad. The caveat is that I don't think Conversion would be mafia with igrok arguing about logic together like that. VE is super non-committal to igrok, BC defends igrok in a really bad way, Koshi I could actually see be town but it's weird igrok town reads him when he scum reads me for changing my reads. Rayn is... absent and needs to start taking stances. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On May 24 2019 23:37 iGrok wrote: Catching up in the morning, just want to clarify that I do VERY MUCH think HF is mafia, and its weird to me that people think I don't. Post your read diagram in full please. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I take advantage of this as scum myself when I post a ton of things that basically just do nothing but make people less confident of their reads and rather than challenge them on logical grounds I challenge them on emotional ones. VE, by definition of being a good player, is no stranger to this tactic. For folks who are being actively challenged or only notice at a surface level that the challenges are being made, the pattern of anti-town motivation is not obvious because they aren't looking for it. At least, that's my take. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On May 24 2019 23:45 iGrok wrote: This is like.... The one thing Koshi has done. Consistently called you and HF scum. Not true, he flip flops over it repeatedly. You can just ctrl + f each of our names in his filter and like clockwork it's hf could be town, nah mafia, oh wait town, nah ok mafia and the same with calix. At some point he even said you and her could both be town. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On May 24 2019 23:45 iGrok wrote: This is like.... The one thing Koshi has done. Consistently called you and HF scum. BINGO. You just said it. He 'consistently called' us mafia. But that's not REAL CONVICTION. And before you come at me with 'no true scotsman' or whatever the fallacy's called, lemme explain. Yelling "THESE TWO PEOPLE ARE MAFIA" is not conviction. It LOOKS like it because he's taking a 'hard stance' on two players. But it's still superficial. How many times has he pushed us? Zero. How many times has he made smart, intelligent comments on why we are scum? Zero. How many times has he tried working with people to get us lynched? Zero. All of that would require EFFORT and collaboration and...even considering that his reads could be wrong as he gets new information about his scum reads and the game! But he's not doing ANY of that. He's just blindly calling us mafia and isn't open to reconsidering his reads. That's the easiest thing ever for mafia to do. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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Calix
3379 Posts
On May 24 2019 23:49 Holyflare wrote: Not true, he flip flops over it repeatedly. You can just ctrl + f each of our names in his filter and like clockwork it's hf could be town, nah mafia, oh wait town, nah ok mafia and the same with calix. At some point he even said you and her could both be town. Wait what? Man, must've missed all that. Well then, amend my last post. The fact he can change his 'hard' scum reads so quickly is another sign that he doesn't really give a shit. Just look at pretty much every other player and how they change their strong town/ scum reads. It doesn't happen overnight, lol. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On May 24 2019 23:51 wherebugsgo wrote: If iGrok is town here I'm making the call that the mafia team is VE/rayn/Koshi and they trolled me earlier in the game because I happened to nail them lel | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
I'm not mafia, and you're never getting me lynched dude, think about something else! | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 24 2019 23:54 VisceraEyes wrote: You can make whatever call you want, you aren't going to be able to lynch me without strategically killing people in the night and it will be obvious that's what's happening Bugs. I'm not mafia, and you're never getting me lynched dude, think about something else! so you do scumread me | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Calix
3379 Posts
On May 24 2019 23:48 wherebugsgo wrote: You know, I'm rather miffed that at least 3 (by my recollection) people have not bothered to read VE because of the sheer size of his filter alone, but are happily town-reading him. Change your reads to null if you aren't looking at what he's saying, because that's a more honest read. I take advantage of this as scum myself when I post a ton of things that basically just do nothing but make people less confident of their reads and rather than challenge them on logical grounds I challenge them on emotional ones. VE, by definition of being a good player, is no stranger to this tactic. For folks who are being actively challenged or only notice at a surface level that the challenges are being made, the pattern of anti-town motivation is not obvious because they aren't looking for it. At least, that's my take. Okay. Well I recall Conversion, someone who is not very familiar with VE's play, thinking that VE's town and scum play is similar. But you seem to know him better. What DOES he do as mafia then? | ||
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disformation
Germany8352 Posts
On May 24 2019 23:48 wherebugsgo wrote: You know, I'm rather miffed that at least 3 (by my recollection) people have not bothered to read VE because of the sheer size of his filter alone, but are happily town-reading him. Change your reads to null if you aren't looking at what he's saying, because that's a more honest read. I take advantage of this as scum myself when I post a ton of things that basically just do nothing but make people less confident of their reads and rather than challenge them on logical grounds I challenge them on emotional ones. VE, by definition of being a good player, is no stranger to this tactic. For folks who are being actively challenged or only notice at a surface level that the challenges are being made, the pattern of anti-town motivation is not obvious because they aren't looking for it. At least, that's my take. fair enough. threw him in the list for your game since i couldnt recall any really big stances or cases by him. | ||
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