EPT[N] Uninspired Mafia
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
although this game is also uninspired so I guess my hopes shouldn't be up | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 30 2019 09:07 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Me too I'm glad nobody has claimed scum yet Isn't that what you just did? ##vote Meapak_Ziphh | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
rayn? any thoughts? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 30 2019 20:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Bugs made almoat evenly stupid question last game to "start" the game except that this time its even dumber. what game are you talking about I haven't played for something like 2 years | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 30 2019 21:12 Pandain wrote: He's talking a little bit, but it's not really about him. I probably read him because he's posted the most (two posts I don't like). But the game has been on for like 15 hours or something and there's about a page and a half. I want to get more people talking. Plus how the game activity goes in the beginning can have a big effect later on. If people barely talk during the first 24 hours, they will probably barely talk later on and the game will be terrible and impossible to play. I like you so far. I think we've never played together though, so I want to understand how you operate. Have you played recently? If so, mind providing your thoughts to this question? anyone who's been playing recently care to give me the rundown on what's good these days? In addition to that, anything else you've noticed so far this game? There's not much to read but wondering if you have any thoughts on the players who have entered so far. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I actually completely forgot about that game tbh, now I remember the shitfest it was | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 01:27 Jockmcplop wrote: Yeah vote me first. Why not? I already have a low enough of opinion of tl.net. First game - mafia - failed to spot it Second game - town - dead first night Third game... you get the picture. I guess I'm a wildcard since I have no meta for you guys to rely on. If you just vote for me you're justified cos I'm new and it saves having to look for scum. I'm not mafia by the way. not helping yourself much here mate. Before I go down that path of lowering expectations/opinions about things, why don't you talk to me about who you actually think we should kill instead of you? If we can't get that far, brushing aside the newness factor, do you understand BC's stated reason for voting you? What's your strategy for finding scum? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 01:38 Jockmcplop wrote: Yeah he wants to get people talking. I can't think of anything to say in particular though. My strategy for finding scum at the moment is to see who's acting suspiciously, but there isn't much here to go on to be honest. Can you define what makes people suspicious? What types of things are suspicious and why would they be indicators someone is mafia instead of town? Have you read Incognito's guide? What do you think your #1 priority should be if you are a townie? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 02:37 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah I've got a question - is your resistance to the Jock lynch intentional or circumstantial? Like, I get that you're suspicious of MZ or whatever, but you say MZ "smells blood in the water", does that imply that you think Jock is town? I'm 99% sure at this point if I do absolutely nothing to push a different lynch, Jock will continue to get suspicion and probably die. I'm giving him outs and the benefit of the doubt because I'm not confident he's scum. Honestly to me the weirdest thing he's done so far has been his last exit: I gotta go to band practice I'll be back in a few hours Only for him to never come back. It's what, 1 am in the UK? So we can't really expect him to come back and defend himself any time soon. Anyway, my opinion has always been that having a single wagon on day 1 is rarely good. No need for me to contribute to that if I see something better, anyway. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 09:25 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Completely agree having single wagons D1 is bad. I obviously am currently standing with the Jock suspicions crowd but what other names should we be considering? Me? What do you think of Grack voting Rels, is that another avenue worth exploring? What avenue, Grack or Rels? There are a few players who haven't showed up, and a few who have but have just disappeared under the radar. It'd be nice if we could get them to talk. I'm going to continue being vague with my reads for a bit because I want to see things play out more. Speaking of non-participants, FecalFeast, mind explaining why you sheeped on MZ, and why you've subsequently been absent from the thread? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 09:46 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Rels, since Grack said he lurks as scum D1. HF says that he lurks as either alignment so it's not a bad idea but bad reasoning. Personally I'm inclined to agree with Grack. What are your thoughts? I don't have enough of an understanding of how Rels plays to take a stance re: lurkiness, but I do find it strange that Rels had the time to throw in a "me too" and then disappear. Again, caveat that I find it unlikely we'll hear from some of the Europeans for several more hours so I don't put much weight in this ATM. I like grack though, he's making sense. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 10:00 Holyflare wrote: Zzzzz generic statements that never catch mafia/reliably find town or hold up to any kind of scrutiny when examined closely zzzz What he counters with doesn't even make any sense. He's boasting about not being able to be read as mafia, being shot by mafia as town? That's implying he's too good for the website.... But he's using that at a point when people are calling him mafia. So he's using a defence of him being better than everyone to prove absolutely nothing about why they are wrong other than some weak deterrent that only shifts people that read people in generic metrics (grack etc). when does not making sense = scum? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 10:29 Jockmcplop wrote: Out of character compared to when I was mafia? You gonna ignore my previous post? You should answer this, and don't even think about skipping any of the questions: Can you define what makes people suspicious? What types of things are suspicious and why would they be indicators someone is mafia instead of town? Have you read Incognito's guide? What do you think your #1 priority should be if you are a townie? Regardless of your alignment, at your current rate, you should know you're going to be dead. In addition to that, let's see your reads. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
see your vote. If you want to convince people that Jack is acting out of character you're gonna have to try harder. There are a whopping two games to base this on, and comparing to the town game I just don't see how you can come to this conclusion. Jack clearly had at least a bit of an attitude and also self-awareness in the townie game: On April 06 2019 11:06 Jockmcplop wrote: Oh great I make one sarcastic comment about hf and he gets the nukes out, everyone else is screaming to murder him and they get nothing. This is bullshit. On April 06 2019 21:54 Jockmcplop wrote: Or it could be that I wasn't really concentrating on this until just now, given that my earlier posts were just snarky comments. Do you think I should have just carried on trying to be silly instead of attempting to read people? So this I think tells us nothing. There are other reasons I think which might be good to consider Jack scum but no one has really brought them up. Maybe I expect too much out of people too :p | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 10:50 VisceraEyes wrote: So.....circumstantial? It looks like you mean that you have no strong feelings on Jock and you're taking a lot of words to say it. Noted. nope, not what I mean. I am actually fine with killing Jack. You know as well as I do if I actually strongly believed Jack to be town I'd try to defend because I hate mislynches. However, I don't think my participation is necessary for Jack to die. Jack's image gets worse in my eyes the longer I don't get responses to questions I've directly posed. Also I think the reasoning people have for voting Jack is a bit weird so far so that's why I'm trying to dig and get people to actually post more about it. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 11:04 Holyflare wrote: If you think those posts are anything like this one then I'm afraid your reading comprehension needs some brushing up on. It's a quite obvious thing. Maybe it's a nuance to mere mortals but from an experienced veteran of mafia such as myself, the evidence you've provided is of a guy that is butt hurt but not cocky and certainly not saying he's above the entire site because everyone is so much worse than him. Game 1 where he was mafia, read his QT. You can see it was all a facade and every time he got called out he was afraid it was the end of him. That's extremely understandable for someone new to mafia to feel when someone is pointing out your inconsistencies. See game 2 where he was more concerned with fairness more than anything and, you know, calmly giving reads even when called out. Your quotes literally show a guy defending himself with matter of fact points in a cocky way. See game 3. He gets called out. Everything people taught him in game 1 was to ignore the suspicion and fight back as if it meant nothing. Here he is trying but with the telltale way of fake bravado. No way he thinks he's above everyone on TL after 2 games where game 1 he thought he played badly but everyone complemented him and game 2 he got killed n1 and I don't think he picked out any of the mafia team at that point (could be wrong but don't think so). He's classically over compensating and he's played his hand too early. I think I'll choose agree to disagree as far as the differences in playstyle game-to-game go. I don't think it is as significant or as alignment indicative as you seem to think. With that said, we're not coming to wildly different conclusions and I think having different reasons for the same outcome is good in the end. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 11:23 Jockmcplop wrote: I have read incognito's guide. At the moment I'm looking for typical mafia stuff, apologetic posting, if anyone has an agenda or is making alot of posts without contributing, inconsistent weird logic. That stuff is suspicious. #1 priority as town for me is finding scum. LOL So after reading Incognito's guide what did you learn? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 11:42 Jockmcplop wrote: ps I'm going to spend a while reading the thread so may not reply immediately. Who would you suggest I look at first? I mean, you said you had reads incoming so maybe post those first? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 12:08 Jockmcplop wrote: bugs what are you my dad? So far every post you make in my direction is telling me what or how you think i should post or getting upset because I was away when I said I would be away. Anyone piquing your interest? ##vote Jockmcplop You were wrong earlier, you're definitely the most interesting person so far. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
The most suspicious thing to me at this point is this post in response to me: BC seems town He's wrong about me but he's genuinely hunting I think. FF could be scum. Just turned up to claim town and hasn't said anything at all. VE is the most blatant town to me so far. His posts are sensible and he's actually contributing. MZ reads town Can't read HF Bugs is interesting. Lots of questions no answers. Probably the most scummy out of everyone, just from the number of questions he's asked people that are irrelevant or pointless. I don't really have any strong scum reads at the moment. I'm always wary of promises like "I'll be back later in a couple hours to post my thoughts" because that's an easy way to get away with not actually posting anything in the end. I expect townies to actually follow through on that without being prodded. Except, Jock always has excuses for not contributing, like literally every other post. (he's "freestyling" and "something might come out of it"??) When he did actually contribute, like the above, it's just a list of nothing significant/summarization followed by "oh I actually have no scum reads" I also don't understand how me asking him questions has turned into coaching all of a sudden. The line of questioning about reading the newbie guide had a purpose, just apparently you, who admonished me for my poor reading skills, don't understand it. Maybe you should go back and read that exchange again and see if you can put 2 and 2 together as to why Jock's response was scummy. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Speaking of non-participants, FecalFeast, mind explaining why you sheeped on MZ, and why you've subsequently been absent from the thread? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 19:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Liiiike if FF were the other wagon and not MZ that would just be super. I'm with you here, FF is setting off alarm bells for me what are your thoughts on no-lynch this cycle? I've actually always been of the opinion that a no-lynch on day 1 is actually really good for town because it reduces the variability, especially in low post count games like this one. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 20:01 Koshi wrote: No lynching is horrible. People need to get out of tunnel. Info is good. Only good if you dont lose lynch later. info is great, but IMO mislynching day 1 is not worth whatever minimal info you get if the game only has a few pages of posts/low participation. You still get info on the NK, for instance. It's worth thinking about from a balance perspective for this game as well. Usually 13p games are 10 townies and 3 mafia, and that already tends to be a bit town-favoured here. This is a 14 player game so the only options are 11/3 or 10/4; the balance will be swingy either way (I think 10/4 might work somewhat better with more town blues but who knows what the hosts decided) If it's 11/3, mislynching is probably okay because town has lots of room for mistakes and the no lynch could be done on a different day, but I think it's still better to do it early. Worst case (noting starts of phases) N1: 10/3 D2: 9/3 N2: 8/3 D3: 7/3 N3: 6/3 D4: 5/3 MYLO N4: 4/3 -> lose No-lynching at any point gives you an extra cycle. If it's 10/4, worst case looks like this: N1: 9/4 D2: 8/4 N2: 7/4 D3: 6/4 MYLO N4: 5/4 -> lose Again, no-lynching at any point gives us an extra cycle. If there's a vig in the setup and they miss, we lose a half-cycle, so MYLO becomes LYLO and no-lynch has no benefit (I think, unless my pea brain did something wrong) | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 20:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well Koshi is town. Idk what to think about jock honestly. I read him like grack did earlier but i dislike his re-entry a lot. Thankfully you can murder him without me. Bugs still scum. for how much our opinions align it's remarkable you think I am scum | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 20:33 Pandain wrote: @Wherebugsgo what were you trying to get from asking Jock about incognoto's guide? You were very insistant on it and it seemed like the most useless questions I've ever seen in my life. I wanted two things; one was to see whether Jock's tone and response style would be natural and the other would be whether he would actually tell me something believable. Given that Jock is very new I would expect some synthesis of Incognito's guide because he would have been bound to have read it recently. If he's town and someone in the game is asking him, I'd expect him to take the time to understand why (and reread if necessary) especially when I was indicating to him that if he didn't shape up he'd likely die. His response that followed afterward indicated that he probably lied, because even if you skim that guide literally the #1 takeaway for townies is to establish innocence. This is also why I phrased the question the way I did. Emphasis mine: On January 09 2012 15:49 Incognito wrote: ... II. Town
... Priority #1: Establishing Your Innocence So, you know how to look for mafia and are ready to smoke them out. But unfortunately, just knowing how to find mafia is not good enough. The other part of the equation is convincing the town that you’ve found them. While you may be correct, it takes more than your own vote to properly seal the deal and kill off the mafia. As a townie, your number 1 priority is to establish your innocence. ... by itself I don't think the lie is super alignment-indicative, but the fact that Jock actually answered that question about the guide but chose not to provide reads, in response to the same post where I specifically asked for them, is. He continued to attempt to stall for time afterward and has since disappeared. There was also no point for town Jock to ignore posts and ask HF if HF thought he's out of character compared to when he was mafia (what kind of question is that? it accomplishes nothing and doesn't even make sense, HF's post was clearly about Jock being out of character when compared to being town) and saying this: Or I was taking the piss because the first page or so is always boring.... Reads incoming I've got some time now rather than just coming out with them. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 20:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: I dont really even think you have any opinions since you write a lot of words but dont really have any hard opinions. hey, to each their own. I just gave you enough information to figure out what my opinions are in the post you just replied to; just because I don't advertise my opinions the same way you do doesn't mean I don't have them. Also you should probably already know I'm a verbose poster and often ask people questions directly to actually get them to participate. Half of the players (literally) haven't voted yet, so if you have any better ideas for changing that I'd be glad to help. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 20:56 VisceraEyes wrote: What do you define as "good"? Preserving the number of town? Reducing the likelihood that we hit town with the lynch? To what end? If we don't use the lynch, mafia don't get reduced. That's the short and long of it. Mafia are NOT going to NOT kill someone, so no, I don't think we should no-lynch. this: On May 01 2019 20:23 wherebugsgo wrote: info is great, but IMO mislynching day 1 is not worth whatever minimal info you get if the game only has a few pages of posts/low participation. You still get info on the NK, for instance. It's worth thinking about from a balance perspective for this game as well. Usually 13p games are 10 townies and 3 mafia, and that already tends to be a bit town-favoured here. This is a 14 player game so the only options are 11/3 or 10/4; the balance will be swingy either way (I think 10/4 might work somewhat better with more town blues but who knows what the hosts decided) If it's 11/3, mislynching is probably okay because town has lots of room for mistakes and the no lynch could be done on a different day, but I think it's still better to do it early. Worst case (noting starts of phases) N1: 10/3 D2: 9/3 N2: 8/3 D3: 7/3 N3: 6/3 D4: 5/3 MYLO N4: 4/3 -> lose No-lynching at any point gives you an extra cycle. If it's 10/4, worst case looks like this: N1: 9/4 D2: 8/4 N2: 7/4 D3: 6/4 MYLO N4: 5/4 -> lose Again, no-lynching at any point gives us an extra cycle. If there's a vig in the setup and they miss, we lose a half-cycle, so MYLO becomes LYLO and no-lynch has no benefit (I think, unless my pea brain did something wrong) | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 21:15 Holyflare wrote: Why didn't you just say this in the first place? :p because I found it unlikely that explaining it to you would change my read on you whereas now we have some evidence that Pandain cares about figuring out what's going on | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 21:23 Holyflare wrote: Have you read Incognito's mafia guide? Emphasis mine: + Show Spoiler + Priority #1: Establishing Your Innocence So, you know how to look for mafia and are ready to smoke them out. But unfortunately, just knowing how to find mafia is not good enough. The other part of the equation is convincing the town that you’ve found them. While you may be correct, it takes more than your own vote to properly seal the deal and kill off the mafia. As a townie, your number 1 priority is to establish your innocence. Why? Establishing your innocence does three things: It gives you a credible platform from which you can push your agenda It reduces the mafia’s options for pushing their agenda - they can’t attack you without some serious consequences It reduces the number of viable mafia candidates - if the town thinks you are innocent that’s one less person to worry about To elaborate: 1) It is hard to get people to listen to you if they are unsure of your motives. There are times where townies will ignore persuasive evidence based on an (irrational) fear that you might be pulling the wool over their eyes. Establishing your innocence allows you to focus on hunting the mafia instead of wasting energy defending yourself. not sure if you're trolling me or telling me you think I'm scum. You and rayn both seem to have trouble reading me properly and at least if this game were hand balanced I'd have to chalk it up to one or both of you being scum. Too early to tell for sure though  Anyway, my problem has always been that I establish my innocence regardless of alignment so it's really hard for me to tell why someone thinks I am scum. I don't recall anyone on the forum standing out as "oh if that person's in the game they'll definitely be able to tell my alignment!" for example. I've only been lynched a handful of times IIRC. Jock ff is a fine pool to lynch into. If you want to no lynch do it later when we have more complete information to solve the puzzle. Silly to do it when there's only posts to talk about. Yeah on reread I'm fine with either of these lynches. #3 and #4 would be Rels and MZ, in that order. Besides the 2 MIAs everyone else seems to have a decent chance of being town to me. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
1. MZ claimed to be "obviously standing with the Jock suspicions crowd" but never actually voted 2. FF, as far as I can tell, doesn't play like this (i.e. actively lurk) as town. The only other factors I think might be relevant are that FF originally signed up as /replace and changed to /in, so worst case benefit of the doubt is that FF is low on time, but probably best to just pressure and see what happens 3. On reread rayn looks terrible. I actually was in agreement with some of rayn's opinions early on (#125) but on reread it seems most of the things rayn accuses me of are projections. Rayn's only actual scum read is me and it makes no sense + rayn hasn't committed to a vote yet with less than 6 hours remaining in the day. my kill order ATM is 1. Jock 2. FF 3. Meapak 4. Rayn Throw Rels instead of one of those people if both 1. Pandain/grack are right about Rels avoiding early game and 2. Rels shows up for some bs vote before EoD. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
rayn seems like you disagree with HF on pandain, care to explain why? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 23:39 Vivax wrote: MZ stuff was just bleh and uninteresting. Why does it make him mafia if he says that he's glad nobody claimed scum yet?It's a wonky thing to say and that's about it. Maybe Bugs and FF can explain how saying that makes people scum cause I don't see it. And if you're going to say that town MZ should be glad that people scumclaim, imagine how glad mafia MZ would be if it was townies scumclaiming like in 99 % of the cases, given that you are implying you would vote them off for those claims. In summary, wary of FF cause not shitposting and looking more like a serious mafia FF with that vote. Vivax you showed up once purely to push Jock and chainsaw defend MZ? You manage to spend a whole lot of the very little time you spent on talking about this extremely minor point when we had already pretty much shifted off MZ, why? It’s almost like you didn’t actually read the whole thread... | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 08:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: bugs why is grack not mafia D1 here? he’s not mafia because I agreed with his post about Jock being town based on tone. I recall there were a couple of posts he made that really echoed my own opinions. I’d point them out but I’m on mobile I haven’t played much with grack though | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 08:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: I literally said i am going to answer this after Pandain gives his answer as i dont want to answer for him if he happens to be mafia. Which of this did you miss? not sure, I’m reading on mobile and you and HF have literally a page or two of just direct chat. If you’re around for deadline just prep a post and post it before then. Good chance one of the three of us dies if we’re all town. I’m not sure if all 3 of us are but occam’s razor suggests that to be true | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: oO you decided jock is scum though on the same evidence??????????? go back and reread the progression of my read, it’s actually fairly obvious at the point where I agreed with the Jock case (hint: it’s when I actually voted) I had already formed my read on grack well before that. The initial push on Jock happened, IIRC, mostly because of the crappy meta case on him. I disagreed with the meta case and even pointed it out. You can go look for both mine and grack’s posts from around the same point. My mistake was agreeing to disagree because I had different reasons for considering Jock scum. Turns out I was just talking to someone who wasn’t interested in playing the game as town. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 09:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: I do not mean to be a dick but can you have an opinion that isn't full of if's and but's? if I have an opinion it’ll never be absolute but you already knew that | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 09:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: okay jock is dead he was town bad shit. who is scum now? MZ Pandain FF replace one with Vivax/Rels potentially. The problem with FF, Vivax, and Rels is that they are very hard to distinguish. Rels at this rate will get replaced and if the hosts follow their rules to the T Vivax should be replaced as well. iGrok also hasn’t posted so that’s a 20% possibility. I am more than 90% sure we have at least one scum between MZ Pandain and FF and I would give the chance of 2 at 50% or more | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 09:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: I also want to hear an explanation on this because i have no idea how you write this thing. easy. Right now, the simplest solution for me is to assume both you and HF are town because even though I don’t agree with everything you are saying, how you are saying it and how you are (seemingly) trying to figure out the game makes it seem like you are town. I could argue on balance that one of you should be scum but that’s not the simplest answer because it requires me to throw away my actual read on one or both of you. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Obviously that’s conditional on how many scum we think are actually active but IMO that third slot is the grand question atm. I’m fairly confident MZ is scum though. Pandain is a more recent read and Pandain is more active anyway so let’s see what happens there. As for me justifying my read on you, that seems like a waste of time to me. Why don’t we talk about what you think the scumteam is at this point? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 09:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also why did you never ever push your read on MZ? Did you realise noone even got what your read was? BC town, I didn’t push my read on MZ because I doubted myself and I also wasn’t insistent enough on maintaining a counter wagon. Had Jock responded better to me I would have defended him very hard because I thought the meta case was really bad (also really HF, you should apologize for that reading comprehension insult LOL) | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 09:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: i am pretty sure i have said what i think the scum team is atm Pretty sure you said it was me, Vivax, and HF which I can tell you off the bat is at least 33% wrong. Also HF isn’t playing well IMO but at least for now that doesn’t make him scum. I know you probably think you are playing transparently and townie but if you are town, then I will ask that you spend less time contributing to the thread with useless filler posts like this one and more helping others actually establish your reads, particularly your reasoning. You certainly seem to think I should be doing that but you appear to have little self-awareness that you aren’t doing that. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
BC what do you think of MZ and Pandain? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 04:05 VisceraEyes wrote: I like to think of myself as a bit of a rayn-whisperer.... is rayn town? What about Holyflare, Meapak, BC, and Pandain? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 09:48 raynpelikoneet wrote: can you answer my useful questions instead of commenting on "useless stuff"? what useful questions? You're just spending time on things I've already given answers to. Here goes, the last time I'm going to explain this to you. If you want more explanations after this one to satisfy your inability to read me, consider actually being useful. why did I push jock instead of MZ? I already answered this, if Jock had a good response I would defend him and push MZ, but Jock had really terrible responses that made me end up agreeing with the case. Agreeing with the case for different reasons = I thought he had a higher chance of flipping scum than MZ, because when different players agree for different reasons that's typically a good sign. Also if you go and reread, there was a fair amount of resistance to MZ which I thought was coming from townies. Again, just lack of confidence from me. Another factor honestly was that I felt even if I did push MZ nothing would come out of it because the game was very inactive. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
is rayn town? What about Holyflare, Meapak, BC, and Pandain? BC I want your opinions on the same list of players but replace yourself with VE | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 09:59 VisceraEyes wrote: Rayn feels town yeah. I think Pandain or HF made this read last game that I think is accurate that says rayn makes posts where he thinks everything is obvious to everyone else so doesn't give much reasoning. Actually it may have actually been rayn self reflecting in early game. Anyway that's how I feel abt him this game. I think it feels townie. WBG: But he's self aware making the meta useless right? He can emulate it as town. I agree generally, except when he tries it feels fakelike and agenda-laden. It fool's some. I'm less fooled. I agree with you, and it seems like rayn took offense at me pointing out that to him just now :p What about BC, Meapak, and Pandain? Is HF town playing badly or mafia misleading us here? I need a bit of that VE paranoia to fuel me here | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 10:02 VisceraEyes wrote: I'd lynch MZ and I'd have to read abt Pandain. I think BC town. I struggle to read hF and would fear lynch him. Sry BBY. I'd fear lynch you too, but I'm less interested in doing so than with HF. Mind reading on Pandain and BC and getting back to me, keeping in mind you want to lynch MZ? I say that because I was a bit surprised when I did that myself and want to see if you reach the same conclusions as I did | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 10:04 VisceraEyes wrote: The paranoia comes out in force when people want to lynch me. You'll get there I'm sure. yeah I mean I'm always a bit paranoid when it comes to you, amigo, but I've learned to embrace it and fuel my inner desires. Though this game there are several characters I might be more paranoid about | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
HF's case is pretty trash | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
have you played with MZ before? If you have, compare MZ's posts in this game to that and you'll see why MZ is scum basically immediately. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 10:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Just like jock is scum? You'll have to do a bit more on that one. if you aren't willing to try what I said, then just wait till daytime. If I'm still alive I'll be pushing MZ tomorrow. If I'm not, that's a pretty good reason to kill him. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Maybe you are right and town, but it doesnt seem like that to me. It seems to me you had the MZ suspicion and reasoning way before Jock was even a real candidate... it seems like that to you because that's exactly how it occurred. I've had the MZ suspicion from the beginning, that never changed. and i dont believe your reasoning you state on later quote. I haven't bothered to explain my reasoning on MZ besides pointing out the non-vote, so I don't know how you've come to this conclusion. You haven't even tried the thing that actually made me suspicious of MZ in the first place, which was confirming I knew how to read MZ by reading his past games. If it seems like I'm not being straightforward here that's my intention. I didn't want to taint the read or tip off MZ too much, but given that Jock was a dead-end I should have done more in hindsight. MZ's disappearance is giving me confidence, though, because I always thought that MZ is constantly scared when playing scum. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 11:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay. Am i mafia? no, I don't think so. I think HF is more likely to be scum than you if I had to flip one of my reads. Do you actually legitimately believe an HF & Vivax & me scum team? If me and HF were on the same team why would I argue with him over meta on Jock? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
but really though, you should calm down a bit, I think we're scaring people away. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 11:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: If i am mafia and not mafia with HF i know HF is uninterested as fuck and who cares so why do i want to discusssstuff with him? I think i wouldnt if i am mafia and HF town. I have no idea what on earth you're trying to say. I already said I think your interaction with HF makes more sense if you are town. You wouldn't interact with HF if you are mafia and HF is town? Cool story, that agrees with my read and what I actually saw happen. I'm going to stop wasting my time and polluting the thread by replying to you now, consider thinking more before you post. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 14:16 Fecalfeast wrote: maf BC vivax maf-ish grack? wbg MZ towny rayn koshi ve hf that's from a once over of the thread based on feels. thinking about hf's pandain case so i haven't placed him yet. rels can die too I can elaborate or whatever if ppl ask i'll be up all night I think why do you think BC is scum? Why did you sheep my vote on MZ and disappear? If you think I am scummy why do you also think MZ is scummy? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 15:35 Fecalfeast wrote: BC seemed scummy when I read his posts. Let me take this bong rip and I'll look again at him MZ seemed like a fun pressure vote, got distracted playing rimworld/mtg arena and getting baked. Came back and again got distracted with real life shit. I was around at EoD but I had a physiotherapy appointment at deadline and hadn't really been reading so changing my vote to a wagon would have been purely for lulz what do you think of people trying to get you lynched? (myself included) On May 02 2019 15:37 Fecalfeast wrote: not really much to go on in BC's filter which honestly means i shouldn't probably scum him that hard yet Okay, but doesn't the same thing apply to Vivax? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 15:49 Fecalfeast wrote: I'm never a fan of people going for me earlygame (or ever, really) because my scum meta (based on my own memory) is one of high activity earlygame because I'm excited to have rolled mafia. As town I'm often low hanging fruit which, obviously, is self-defeating of my tendency to omgus but it doesn't seem to matter. no Alright, two more questions and I'll let you go. 1. Can you provide me an example game where you play mafia and one where you play town? Feel free to pick a couple that you think are illustrative of what you mean here. 2. Can you elaborate on Vivax? Why is he scummier than BC even though there is less to go on in Vivax's filter than BC? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 16:09 Fecalfeast wrote: 1. No, you can look through my games yourself + Show Spoiler [FecalFeast] + TL Mafia LXVIII: Fanfic Crossover Edition Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 3 2p2 Vanilla Werewolf 13er Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 4 Zesty Italian Dressing Micro Mafia Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 1 Newbie Mini Mafia LIX Mafia Vanilla Survived Day 3 Fantasy Football Mafia Mini 2 Town Miller Survived Day 2 Campus Mafia Town Vanilla Lynched Day 5 V Titanic Mini Mafia: A Game of Four Hours Mafia Roleblocker Survived Night 2 VI Titanic Mini Mafia: The Return of MSPaint Town Vanilla Survived Day 5 TL Mafia LXIX: Carol Of The Bells Town Vanilla Survived Night 5 PYP: Pick Your Protoss Mini Mafia Town Probe Survived Day 2 Linux Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Survived Night 1 Slytherin Mini Mafia Town Gunsmith Survived Day 3 VII Titanic Mini Mafia: I Have a Cunning Plan... Town Vanilla Survived Night 4 XXX Mini Mafia: A Night of Debauchery (18+) Town Vanilla Scum killed Night 3 Office Mini Mafia Town Medic Killed Night 3 Newbie Student Mafia VI Town Vanilla Survived Day 6 TL Mafia LXX: Guardians of the Galaxy Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 7 Jack of All Trades Mafia Town Vanilla Endgamed Night 3 Newbie Student Mafia IX Town Vanilla Killed Night 1 Hajime no Ippo Maifa Mafia Miguel Zale Lynched Day 2 Carnaval do Brasil Mafia Mafia Vanilla Lynched Day 4 I Still Cant Believe its not Themed Mafia Town Vanilla Modkilled Day 4 Lost But Not Forgotten Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Survived Day 2 II Cannons Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Killed Night 3 The New Personality Mafia Town Glowingbear Killed Night 4 Student Mafia XV Town Veteran Survived Night 1 Student Mafia XVI Town Veteran Survived Day 5 Newbie Student Mafia XVII: Fullmetal Edition Town Vanilla Survived Day 3 Season of the Witch 2 Town Acolyte Killed Night 3 Newbie Student Mafia XVIII Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 3 Pick Your Power: Intriguing Mafia Professor Moriarty Lynched Day 2 Who Wants to be a Millionaire Cell Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Survived Day 1 Team Melee Mini Mafia VI: Newbies and Vets Town Vanilla Lynched Day 3 Tortoise Mafia Town Vanilla Lynched Day 1 Newbie Mafia XXI Town Vanilla Killed Night 2 Palmars Purge: Crisis and Turmoil in Liquidia Town Ash Endgamed Day 5 Liquidmania Qualifier #3 Mafia Vanilla Survived Day 3 TL Mafia LXXV Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 7 MS Paint-Off Mafia Town Vanilla Lynched Day 1 Hurricane Shelter Mafia Mafia Godfather Lynched Day 2 Newbie Student Mafia XXVII Town Vanilla Lynched Day 2 Classic Mafia Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 3 Medic Mafia Town Medic Survived Night 3 2. Vivax doesn't play when he's mafia based on my perception of him in games we've played together including one where we were both mafia re: 1. Actually I've already skimmed through a few of your filters as both alignments and find it hard to distinguish which one is which. Just asked you to pick a couple because I wanted to know which ones you think match what you've said. re: 2. So Vivax is your top read then, since you're not sure on BC anymore? Anyone else you consider scum? What are your thoughts on HF being wrong on Jock and then immediately pushing Pandain after the flip? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I don't claim to be some sort of Pandain whisperer, but here's my top 3 clickbait list: 1. Pandain's behaviour is different enough between alignments to be noticeable, at least after reading 3-4 games. As town, Pandain seems to be trying to figure things out, and tends to use a lot of conditional language/hedging. Here are a couple examples, which ones are town and which are mafia? Example 1: + Show Spoiler + On October 28 2013 08:46 Pandain wrote: There's too much scum for me to ignore in Rayn. I'll clarify my case. I agree my case on Rayn isn't that convincg. It's based on a whole bunch of small tells. However, given the information we have now he is objectively the most scummy of everyone. WoS you think I might be scum because my reasons are crap, but okay then I guess I'm crap. Let me know why revealing a role to a person who's alignment isn't certain is town or comes from a blue role. I don't think my arguments are weak, they're non-conclusive at best but it's ultimately a matter of debate. I also think you don't like me for some reason, so I hope we can get that behind me. Or if you think I'm bad just address the arguments rather then the person. Sentinel, it's not set in stone but its at least semi-serious. Answer: + Show Spoiler + town Example 2: + Show Spoiler + On November 15 2013 09:52 Pandain wrote: Why do you think he's town so far? I don't think effort is the town indicator you think it is, unless you're looking at something else which of course I may have missed. I don't like this by the way. I totally agree that the best canidate, in yamato's terms but it makes sense anyway, is to vote someone who wants to lynch a scum who you believe is scum. That will make my best vote, but it's not indicative. So right now, if I wasn't voting kush, I would be voting someone who is a good anazlyer probably VE because I think he's alright in the long term and is also town. Even if your town, we're not just trying to vote someone who is town. We want to vote a good analyzer because they get two votes each day. Answer: + Show Spoiler + town Example 3: + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2019 04:59 Pandain wrote: Fuck busy again tonight. Can't do a last post but if I die slam and onegu need to be next lynches. Grack I saw your post but meta tells like that are shit compared to actual analyses. Any good player can change their meta, and honestly people can't read meta for shit. Slam has two huge scum tells. He voted for HF and then later pushed HF for lynching palmar(extremely hypocritical and makes sense from mafia perspective). And he also, despite being very active most times, was completely "gone" during the sentinel lynch, and "convienantly" just showed up five minutes after. Yeah right. Lynch this guy. Onegu has just been scummy this whole game, pushing me for absolutely no reason (like actually none. His reason was because of a misunderstanding of acros role later shown to he false. But onegu never backtracked. And he too convienantly afked during sentinel lynch. Also I can't do analysis because g2g but his whole filter is pretty bad. If ace ever lives past night 4 he's 100% scum. Acro is town I think. Don't agree with aces analysis at all. It's not anti town mechanic because he wasn't forced to shoot anyone. Answer: + Show Spoiler + mafia I tried seeing if there is any language Pandain uses differently based on alignment, and you can try searching "think" or "don't think" in filters; I think as scum P uses words like "think" and "don't think" less often than as town but it's certainly not conclusive. Here are some numbers: + Show Spoiler + Thug life: 23 pages mafia - 1.13 don't think per page 21 don't think total 169 think 7.34 per page noir 19 pages mafia 0.78 per page 15 don't think 181 think 9.5 per page end of the world 9 pages mafia 1 per page don't think 57 think 6.3 per page time to die 30 pages town 1.35 per page 40 don't think 280 think 9.33 per page ##mafia 15 pages town 1.7 per page 26 don't think 159 think 10.6 per page 2. P's reads tend to be more consistent as scum and this matches what I'd expect of scum in general being unwilling to change reads. I think townies try to figure out the game rather than just lining up people to kill. I wouldn't expect scum P to just immediately backtrack and put me in a list of potential scum after calling me the towniest person in the game on the same day: I wouldn't at all be surprised to see two scum between BC, VE, HF, bugs, and vivax 3. P was trying to consolidate people to kill Vivax at EoD. This shows initiative and is quite a risk as scum I think-why not just sit back and watch Jock die/what purpose does it accomplish? I tend to believe that scum will look to see if there is support before trying something like that, and actually I've seen that in Pandain's past games as well: On March 14 2019 05:04 Pandain wrote: Is there still support for an MZ wagon? On March 14 2019 05:19 Pandain wrote: For the record I think Onegu should be #1 lynch but I don't see any traction coming. In that game Pandain voted MZ, but then got off MZ when there wasn't any traction and moved to Onegu (following a vote by MZ on Onegu as well, making it clearer that there was traction on Onegu). In general Pandain's vote movements were minimal even with townies getting lynched. Here Pandain was happy to move around the vote and try and get a different person lynched even last minute, regardless of support existing. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Point 2. He's more consistent as mafia? That's literally the point I'm saying, he's not consistent, his accusations don't align with his posts and furthermore he was hesitant at every point to lynch his mafia read and even tried to vreate shenanigans away from it but then attack everyone on it afterwards. Yes, he's more consistent as mafia, he's not as consistent in this game == I don't think he's mafia in this game. I have no idea how you take me saying P is consistent as scum to mean that P being inconsistent in this game means P should be scum. Point 3. I do not believe for one second you went back through all of his town games and found a specific moment where he did some kind of shenanigan or whatever it is you're trying to prove. This looks almost definitively like you have cherry picked something that fits your narrative because you either have insider information on Pandain's alignment or you're trying to cover for him. Something, I might add, that he absolutely does not need. Nope, I didn't look for shenanigans, I just said that given that he's more consistent as scum and looks for support, I find it unlikely that he would proactively try to push someone else. I do also find it weird that Pandain would blatantly self-contradict on not voting someone scummy but I find this easier to explain from a town perspective than a mafia perspective. Someone who is that self-aware as mafia would not let their vote make them look bad. I guess you can come back and say, well if P is mafia he knew Jock would flip town so P avoided putting his vote on Jock, so I guess we can just call that a wash. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 18:35 Holyflare wrote: What a pointless trivial question which I've addressed already. Mz has posted shit all, could be anything. Vivax has done nothing to sway me one way or the other and didn't post anything I hated yet. BC has only made posts I've agreed with. Rayn I can't believe you fell for my posts last night. Reread them as if I'm talking about actual insects :D I will lynch bugs with you. if you're town and we lose this game is 100% on you. Your reads are awful this game and I'm having a hard time believing you're actually town at this point. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 18:47 Holyflare wrote: Why is anything on me if we lose? Lol what a shit point. Everyone is an independent responsible for their own actions. My reads being awful is not going to convince anyone of anything to do with my alignment. If you would actually spend the time attacking your mafia reads as much as you did defending your town reads with narratives and figures maybe you'd figure that out. because you are likely to die, and if your reads are shit a lot of people will inevitably sheep you. Reputation matters on this forum. Anyway, you want a point-by-point rebuttal to your case? Here you go: On May 02 2019 07:14 Holyflare wrote: This guy is suspect numero uno. Anybody that uses the phrase "that's scummy regardless of Jock's alignment" is a guy that has tmi and makes it want to look like he's weighing up his options. Not alignment indicative at all. rayn literally said he's not against the lynch but not going to vote for a someone he thinks is townie. Pandain's statement can be taken literally, is an excellent thing to point out, and the addition of "regardless of alignment" doesn't change the motive at all. I myself use that type of language a lot. Let us also not forget that he agreed with all the points on Jock, fought against rayn that jock looked scummy, said rayn was scummy for not trying to save his town read and then dropped it all to try and shenanigan with rayn. "fought against rayn that jock looked scummy" this never happened. Pandain consistently said he thought Jock was a fine lynch but he wanted to vote Rels/Vivax for other reasons. This mirrors my own thoughts, I wanted to pursue MZ but in the end I was fine with Jock dying. Second part "dropped it all to try to shenanigan with rayn" is just a bad filter reading, rayn responded reasonably: On May 02 2019 04:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because he is completely useless and it makes about 70% of the game actually play the game and not just pile their votes on random lurkers and do nothing else. Look if youre town please try to understand that its not necessarily scummy to not play the way you want people to. If i said what i said maybe 5 years ago it probs would make me mafia but i am over trying to convince everyone and everything about that i am right. I play this game for my own amusement nowdays because of reasons, i dont care what people think of me and i only care about if i am right or not and say what i think into the thread. I try to emulate that as much as possible when i am mafia but as mafia i actually have a team and a plan and i also try to execute it. It shows at least to some people, it always does. So idc, if you think i am scummy regardless of jocks alignment maybe you should try get me lynched for whatever on D2. It's gonna be almost as bad as this day pahse. Pandain responded to THIS with "okay then if you don't think Jock is scum why don't we lynch Rels together" Let us also not forget that Pandain wanted to lynch rels (based on incorrect meta that was highlighted several times already) despite a wagon building on Jock, his also scum read, to make rels active again. Then when that didn't take off, Pandain, master of misdirection, avoided joining the jock wagon (his scum read) again for terrible shenanigans. This is probably the strongest argument for Pandain being scum. However, again, the events didn't really unfold like you are saying they did. Sure, if Pandain's sole purpose was to avoid being on Jock I can see him being scum. I'm not sure I can come to this conclusion though. The best argument here I can see for Pandain being scum is that he voted for Rels before looking at Jock, then didn't really want to move his vote to Jock for fear of looking bad/inconsistent (and I think Pandain does this as scum). However if that's the case, why would Pandain move to Vivax later? Then when Jock, his scum read, flipped town (after pandain said he's probably town for no discernable reason why arguing that he was still mafia) Pandain decides to call the entire wagon on Jock, his scum read, and also maybe town read, mafia. No thanks. You mafia mate. Lynch Pandain when I'm gone. He never argued Jock was town, he just hedged. Calling 2 mafia in the wagon I think is a natural progression that lots of townies make after a mislynch. Not alignment-indicative. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 18:50 Holyflare wrote: To everyone else thinking bugs is town just look at where he spends his time when in thread: Pointless already answered questions. Calling cases bad but then not addressing the case and instead writing walls of text on defending a town read Pandain instead. Even with Jock it was asking about reading the guide and then complaining about the Jock meta being wrong after the fact. are you serious I've avoided confronting you because I didn't want to pollute the thread, but if you're town, you need to be told this as honestly you're so arrogant, ESPECIALLY when you're wrong. I pointed out that I disagreed with your meta case on Jock right at the beginning and you chose to tell me I don't know how to read. I responded reasonably and instead of entertaining the thought that you could be wrong, you decided to make the environment completely hostile. Now you call me scum because I disagree with you and provide reasons for my town reads. Literally the only acceptable reason for you to play like this is if you are scum. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 19:18 Holyflare wrote: That looks like a town read to me, not even a hedge. and you had the audacity to tell me I can't read... I stand by the comment that you were unable to see the differences, it's laughable since you've spent more time defending pandain in the same way I attacked jock than even checking up on Jock. The meta was not wrong in the slightest, he played differently to both his previous games. I just attributed that to being mafia. It was wrong, big deal. Similarly, you've just done the EXACT same defending Pandain. I don't agree with it, in fact it looks like a scummy narrative. I think you're mafia for it because you've spent more time doing that than responding to the actual case in the first place. You then asked me a pointless question about 3 people I've largely already even talked about, which shows you just didn't care about reading me. You simultaneously say I'm going to ruin the game because if I die people will sheep me but also call me mafia. But then attack me in a way that only makes sense if you know I'm town. It's my literal job as mafia to shit up a thread and make it hostile and out talk people but at every step it's the old fake hedge from you. You stand by it because you're either bad or you're intentionally trying to goad me. Neither is a good look for you. I'm hedging because I have a hard time reading veterans who act anti-town seemingly on purpose. If you're town what is the point of you being hostile to other players who disagree with you? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 18:35 Holyflare wrote: What a pointless trivial question which I've addressed already. Mz has posted shit all, could be anything. Vivax has done nothing to sway me one way or the other and didn't post anything I hated yet. BC has only made posts I've agreed with. Rayn I can't believe you fell for my posts last night. Reread them as if I'm talking about actual insects :D I will lynch bugs with you. Rayn is this scum HF being fake aggressive or town HF who thinks he's posted something but actually hasn't? I ask him about MZ, Vivax, and BC. 1. Up until this post, MZ is not at all mentioned in HF's filter. Here, HF doesn't take a stance. 2. HF did say the same thing about Vivax earlier, so sure, fine. But again, no stance. 3. "BC only made posts I've agreed with" no direct interaction besides that first weird mistake post HF had, we can come to this conclusion I suppose based on the fact that BC and HF both voted Jock but why should vote alignment matter in reading BC? So why does HF say this is a pointless question when the only thing that HF actually said was #2? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 19:56 Holyflare wrote: 1. What has mz done since that required me to take a stance on him? Like I said, he's done shit all. Also I quite categorically do mention him in my filter. I ask him when he's going to stop fannying around not voting Jock, which now Jock has flipped town makes him look more suspicious. Regardless, I don't have enough information because he just hasn't posted enough. If anyone says they can form an opinion on him they're either lying or wrong. 2. Yup. 3. What has BC posted since that would make me change my mind? If you think it's anything to do with voting alignment or whatever nonsense then ok but it's clearly not and I've highlighted that in my post. If someone says stuff I am thinking before I've posted it when reading the thread there's a strong chance we're on the same wavelength and are the samw alignment. That's a pretty basic tenet of mafia. Either way, you've only just now blatantly gone through my filter to check these things and then point it out after the fact. You've asked me the question before you even knew whether I had answered them. So this question WAS largely pointless because: A) you didn't know if I had already talked about them B) you didn't actually care about the response because you've gained nothing from it other than showing your true colours the more you post the more I'm thinking you are mafia. Occam's razor: I didn't recall you ever talking about those 3 players before asking that question. Do you filter everyone before you ask them a simple question? Then, I found your response odd and strangely aggressive, so I tried to figure out is it because my memory was wrong and you did actually talk about those things, or is it because of some other reason? Obviously at that point I would go and reread. I find it remarkable that after the flip you just decided to move onto the next lynch without even stopping to considering why you might have been wrong, or if mafia were involved in pushing that wagon. Even though you agreed with BC you should at the very least go back and reread and see if you need to reevaluate in context of the flip and I find it hard to believe that as town you wouldn't do that. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
1. What has mz done since that required me to take a stance on him? Like I said, he's done shit all. Also I quite categorically do mention him in my filter. I ask him when he's going to stop fannying around not voting Jock, which now Jock has flipped town makes him look more suspicious. Regardless, I don't have enough information because he just hasn't posted enough. If anyone says they can form an opinion on him they're either lying or wrong. when he was absolutely 100% fine with taking a stance and killing Jock over like 5 posts. This pretty much proves that HF isn't posting in good faith. The "mention" thing is a pretty hilarious politician-like dodge too by just taking the phrase absolutely literally to score some points, followed by nothing more than basic summarization. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 20:21 Holyflare wrote: Then I will leave you in disbelief. All the evidence is here for everyone to look at themselves now Yes, I do filter people before I ask them questions because otherwise it is pointless. this is something small but I want to point this out as well. mafia is not a game where opinions are static for all of time. HF doesn't have any ground to stand on here because it's just not true that you can just come to the conclusion that you know exactly how a player stands on a given issue just by reading their posts, because townies change their positions constantly. This is a pretty big scumtell because mafia are more likely than town to be very aware of exactly what stances they've taken so that they don't accidentally go and "contradict" themselves later. Townies OTOH are happy to change their opinions fluidly with the events in-game because they are operating with limited info and trying to actually figure things out. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
If you're scum lucky for you I still consider MZ and BC higher chance to flip scum than you. You're on par with Vivax though, and if I had to choose right now I'd kill you over Vivax 100% | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 20:47 Holyflare wrote: I... Don't seem to have any reads? Wtf? I think pretty much I'm one of the only people in this game to even make cases on my mafia reads. everyone, please take note again. HF lists five players here: On May 02 2019 18:53 Holyflare wrote: Koshi/bugs/rels/vivax/pandain Based on bugs defence of pandain tempted to take pandain out but we'll see. Koshi hit or miss kinda like what he posted but I trained him as mafia well and he's a complete non entity. Literally no justification on any of these except Pandain. And even on Pandain, because now I'm arguing with HF he is tempted to take Pandain out (?) Koshi: hit or miss (but scum...?) Vivax, says this: On May 02 2019 18:35 Holyflare wrote: What a pointless trivial question which I've addressed already. Mz has posted shit all, could be anything. Vivax has done nothing to sway me one way or the other and didn't post anything I hated yet. BC has only made posts I've agreed with. Rayn I can't believe you fell for my posts last night. Reread them as if I'm talking about actual insects :D I will lynch bugs with you. but listed as scum. rels: called meta on rels incorrect but lists him above. In fact, part of the attack on Pandain was this supposed incorrect meta read on rels. read on me: wrong now trying to spin as if he has reads because in the lowest of low activity games he's the only one to have posted a "case". | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/tnvtUxe.png) | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 21:12 Holyflare wrote: This is gross misrepresentation. Just because I have an arbitrary list of unexplained reads doesn't mean I don't have reasons for them. Those reasons might be poe but hey ho. It's more a list of non town reads than actually being mafia. With regards to the people I actually push, the ones that now actually matter (you and pandain) I have posted my thoughts quite well and elaborated. Pretty obvious. I don't go into your filter where you pick out the list of like 3-4 people you said contains mafia and say omg unexplained reads no way do I? Pretty petty if you ask me. everyone, please take note again. HF has an "arbitrary list of unexplained reads", into which are lumped two people HF is calling scum, while responding almost simultaneously to my question about one of those unexplained reads (Vivax) saying that Vivax could go either way because they haven't done anything? How can it be PoE if HF has two people who supposedly haven't done anything (Vivax and MZ) but one is in the "arbitrary list" and not the other? Even if HF had reasons, HF didn't divulge them when asked, and then backpedaled with a non-answer when called out on it. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 00:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: I also find it remarkable that bugs now thinks BC is mafia because all BC did D1 was to push on a person bugs himself did think was mafia. no, that's not why BC became scummier to me. I had him as town for some basic reason I don't really recall, and it wasn't great. You actually made me realize that with this post: On May 02 2019 09:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: if you have a real town read on us (i mean based on posts we have made) why do you ever even say this? What is your read on BC? I replied re: BC with this: On May 02 2019 09:19 wherebugsgo wrote: BC town, I didn’t push my read on MZ because I doubted myself and I also wasn’t insistent enough on maintaining a counter wagon. Had Jock responded better to me I would have defended him very hard because I thought the meta case was really bad (also really HF, you should apologize for that reading comprehension insult LOL) And then when I thought about why I have BC marked as town and read my sheet, I realized I didn't really have any good reason to think so and reread. That's why I posted this: On May 02 2019 09:31 wherebugsgo wrote: actually thanks rayn, you made me realize that I have on read for not very great reasons. BC what do you think of MZ and Pandain? I think the one thing that makes BC look better is that his read on MZ seemed to evolve between consecutive posts, but that's so minor I'm not sure it's indicative of anything. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 00:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you were doubting on your read on MZ then why he is colored all red again? why is it that neither you nor HF seem to properly understand the concept of time? Tell me, do you find these things weird? 1. MZ asked me a question and never followed up 2. MZ claimed to be suspicious of Jock but never voted 3. MZ claimed to be wary of single wagons but didn't actually bother looking into any secondary options independently (only asked me, per #1, about Grack on Rels) My initial vote on MZ was just like "oh this feels like scum MZ" but my confidence level wasn't super high. MZ started posting a bit and his arguments for Jock being scum jived with what others were saying (this is a big factor in why I let the meta piece on Jock go, because there were multiple voices disagreeing with me). At the time, I didn't find MZ's posts all that strange. It's only in hindsight that I found him more scummy, especially because he disappeared and didn't follow up on the questions he asked that I never answered. I actually think a lack of vote that risks modkill/warning is slightly more of a town-tell than a scum-tell just because scum are incentivized by their teammates to vote, so one explanation might just be that MZ became busy and never showed up again. However, there aren't any good reasons for me to think MZ is town other than that. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 00:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: I dont understand what has concept of time have to do with anything here because those things happened before jock was lynched, you had an original scumread on MZ and never chose to push it instead of this: huh? it takes time to tell whether MZ is actually going to follow up, or vote, or do anything. I wasn't confident on MZ which is why I didn't push MZ. I wasn't confident on anybody, which is why I proposed no-lynch. Specifically, I wasn't confident we could avoid mislynch. Also I'm typically not around for the last few hours before deadline because it's 5 a.m. here (currently 1 am) so I can't actually influence lynches effectively last-minute in a low-activity game. I "coached" Jock, as you put it, because I wasn't confident on the meta read so I wanted to establish my own read by seeing Jock's responses. His responses were awful so I was fine with letting him die and didn't bother putting in any effort to change the lynch. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 02:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am struggling to find third scumread since i dont really think HF is scum and i dont really think FF is scum either. let’s assume HF and FF are town for the sake of this If you have two reads POE should give you a third. For me, if HF and FF are not scum, MZ BC Vivax would be my top 3. If HF is not scum, and he’s also not totally whack this game, I might be wrong about Pandain and his name rises. The only other players left are like VE and grack. Koshi we can wait on potentially because of the night post. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 03:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah I think I'd lynch Pandain. I have exactly two games of mafia on TL in the last year or so, they were the last one and this one. In the last game I started as town, had a strong townread on Pandain from D1, and ended up recruiting him the next day because he was so townie. Interestingly, his posting from D3 onward looks a lot more like this game, though the thread was admittedly fucked by that point anyway in the last game. My read is more based on my LACK of strong townread on him throughout D1, persisting until now. I feel like Pandain is a much stronger poster than what we're seeing here. I think he's hiding something nefarious. Do you have the link to the point where he gets recruited? I want to read that. I’m on mobile so can’t search easily atm. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
who did you shoot? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
At this point Pandain is probably not scum, VE is not scum, FF is probably not scum. BC & Meapak look worse for Vivax flipping scum. At this point we should be killing one of them but we’re killing me instead. Whatever. ##vote wherebugsgo | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 07:31 Holyflare wrote: ... You say no, maybe only vivax. Pandain comes up with reasons to vote vivax that don't really apply because vivax has proportional activity to normal since this thread isn't very long imo. Maybe he's busy? Who the fuck knows? ... On May 02 2019 07:41 Holyflare wrote: When did I say vivax wasn't mafia? I don't think he's done anything good or awful. Similarly to you. On May 02 2019 18:35 Holyflare wrote: What a pointless trivial question which I've addressed already. Mz has posted shit all, could be anything. Vivax has done nothing to sway me one way or the other and didn't post anything I hated yet. BC has only made posts I've agreed with. Rayn I can't believe you fell for my posts last night. Reread them as if I'm talking about actual insects :D I will lynch bugs with you. On May 02 2019 18:53 Holyflare wrote: Koshi/bugs/rels/vivax/pandain Based on bugs defence of pandain tempted to take pandain out but we'll see. Koshi hit or miss kinda like what he posted but I trained him as mafia well and he's a complete non entity. On May 02 2019 19:56 Holyflare wrote: 1. What has mz done since that required me to take a stance on him? Like I said, he's done shit all. Also I quite categorically do mention him in my filter. I ask him when he's going to stop fannying around not voting Jock, which now Jock has flipped town makes him look more suspicious. Regardless, I don't have enough information because he just hasn't posted enough. If anyone says they can form an opinion on him they're either lying or wrong. 2. Yup. BC, MZ, HF, at least one of you is town unless this is a bastard 4 scum setup. Come help me figure out the game while I'm still alive. As long as we're lynching me just assume I'm town. You can discard everything I say never, because I won't flip scum. HF if I'm wrong about you and these are not massive scum tells of you defending Vivax for no reason but then putting him as scum for equally no reason, please do explain yourself. Why was Vivax so special, out of the "do nothingers" that he had such a great honour of being in your kill list? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 07:30 VisceraEyes wrote: You know what No. Pandain. No. You don't get to come in here and jizz all over the thread about "trying to lynch the gf" when A) you had literally zero credibility beyond your ability to provide ONE vote, and not even a vote OFF the main wagon. It was a useless vote on Rels that went nowhere and meant nothing, just like the Vivax vote. In fact, it makes sense to me that the mafia team would be trying to capitalize on a possibly MODKILLED GF. ##Vote: Pandain actually they got 3 votes on Vivax before that train died. If I'd been around I probably would've joined the Vivax train. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 07:35 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh me too bugs! Me too now that I know it was the godfather! I bet no one in here would say they wouldn't have voted Vivax at the end of the day had they been here. ignore my comment for a bit and hear me out here. That last minute wagon was pushed by rayn, Pandain, and grack. Let's argue for the sake of this that Pandain is scum. Jock was sitting pretty at 5 votes. There were 4 absentees who could've come in at any point and slapped down a vote, and any one of the Jock voters could also have been like "nah I've got cold feet on Jock" and swapped. Only 1 swap and 1 additional vote (or 2 swaps, I guess) would have been necessary for Vivax to die. Do you think mafia would toy that close to deadline with a lynch that's just 2 random votes from killing off someone on your team? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 07:43 VisceraEyes wrote: YES IF ITS NOTORIOUSLY AWFUL AT MAFIA VIVAX WHO IS IN DANGER OF A MODKILL! YES ITS POSSIBLE EVEN PROBABLE! I'D DO IT IN A SECOND, BECAUSE I'M EXCELLENT AT MAFIA! alright... looks like I'm dead today boys | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 07:46 VisceraEyes wrote: Whatever I'll just read then. I fucking hate when people come in and scream about trying to lynch someone who died NOT from the lynch and flipped and now I'm tilted. when you come back, I want to discuss with you more. Here are conclusions I've come up with: Town: Grack FF Pandain VE Question marks: Alakaslam (replaced iGrok) Rels Koshi Scum: MZ? HF? BC? The last three all look bad, I would say HF looks objectively the worst in isolation and MZ and BC both look bad by association. MZ I still have a tone/meta read on as scum. Also MZ promised more activity today so it should be easy to see if MZ continues that and if MZ can provide any useful contributions. Say MZ and BC are both town, then I think HF & Koshi is also possible. But with 6 people being in the possible scum pool I'm not sure what really to think at this point, and both MZ and BC look worse after the Vivax flip. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 07:46 Holyflare wrote: If it wasn't clear I've red checked you. Good day. thanks for scum claiming when I die, if I flip anything but miller kill this fucker | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
HF of all players you could check why did you check me? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 07:52 Holyflare wrote: Hm didn't realise there was miller too. Pretty shit if it's gf miller though. how the fuck can you not realise there is a miller if you're a cop | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 07:54 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I'm fine lynching with HFs claim. I need to think more about VE's Pandain push. I very much hate when players come in and try to claim towncred for stuff they weren't responsible for so I'm finding myself agreeing with a lot of what VE was saying. However if HF's redcheck is real it makes it look like VE was trying to chainsaw defend Bugs. do you have any real opinions? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
HF is not scumclaiming here because that's a nonsensical 1 for 1. It just serves to shit up the thread today, HF then dies the next day and then HF is banking on his scum teammate to somehow survive for a couple more cycles. My flip guarantees confirmation of HF's alignment. Miller = town, VT = scum obviously. BC is still waiting on talking about all of this (he's here, I guarantee it) so he looks worse. I don't agree on Pandain being scum, however rayn also thought he was scum. (and FF but I don't get that one either) Likely: BC MZ Koshi Possibly: Alakaslam Rels FF Pandain Probably not: VE grack confirmed: HF me I'd personally put Pandain in "probably not" but whatever, I've been wrong before. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 07:58 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Do you? I think Pandain's post N1 stuff looks terrible. I was liking what HF posted before he even claimed a check on you so that was just a warm fuzzy. VE is almost always town, however the Pandain push is going to look very suspect if you flip red. I feel like that was pretty obvious from my post. If you want more opinions on individuals you'll have to wait until I've filtered people. If you have anyone you'd like me to address first just let me know. from my standpoint and the knowledge I have this is a post that manages to say absolutely nothing. "I was liking what HF posted" -> cool, if you're scum you already have the knowledge that HF is town "VE is almost always town" why? slides into hypothetical about VE if I flip scum -> knows that this will never happen so it's a completely empty thing to say MZ is setting up a lynch on Pandain after I flip here with this post. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 08:14 Holyflare wrote: Imagine being called confirmed town by the guy you red checked. what's so hard to imagine about that? On May 03 2019 07:58 VisceraEyes wrote: /wrist thoughts on BC? esp. his last interaction with rayn and his subsequent disappearance? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
yeah, I'm the red check. Did you read? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 08:22 Grackaroni wrote: lol one time he fake claimed a check as the real cop. So we lynched a townie and then lynched him as the cop. who do you think is scum here? What do you think of BC talking with Rayn before deadline but not being here now? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 08:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I think it will be worth taking a look at if Bugs flips red. Again I was agreeing more with HF than anything else when I was catching up so I'm fairly confident in that flip. I think the miller argument is an incredibly flimsy defense at this point and with the GF dead it makes literally zero sense for scum HF to do a 1-1 trade. just wanted to highlight this From my perspective the only thing that makes sense is being a miller, because 1. I am not scum and 2. there is no framer in this game. There is the off-chance that HF is a complete moron who fake claimed but that would require me to believe that HF is playing against his win condition and while I may sometimes be an asshole I'm not that big of an asshole. "an incredibly flimsy defense" is rich given that I'm not even bothering defending myself. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 08:25 Grackaroni wrote: I think scum is just in MZ/FF/Rels with an off chance of HF. HF can't be scum unless I flip VT. BTW, if I flip VT you all HAVE to lynch him, doesn't matter what he says, because you can't let him get away with a town fake claim. He'll eventually do it as scum. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 08:25 Grackaroni wrote: I think scum is just in MZ/FF/Rels with an off chance of HF. what about koshi? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 08:30 Grackaroni wrote: I got a good feel from him earlier when he was spamming posts but he needs to pick up his game too. Sheeping his vote based on Rayn is shitty. you saw he claimed vig? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 08:32 Grackaroni wrote: Yeah I think that was similar to Rayn claiming veteran. People do a lot of things like that at night these days. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/NCmtFah.jpg) | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 08:35 Grackaroni wrote: lmao. If he's actually vig then he can claim it and he was probably roleblocked shooting FF, but it makes no sense to claim before shooting as the actual vig when you will just get roleblocked if you aren't shooting town. agreed, but I've witnessed people do far dumber. What are your thoughts on Pandain? And why do you townread BC? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 05:52 Alakaslam wrote: WAS RAYN ON THE RIGHT TRACK??!? you here? have you caught up on the game? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I've read through a bit of Pandain's early game from Fibonacci and I think it matches well here, both in tone and in terms of what he tried to get done in both games. On tone, he's always really hedgy/self-aware and I didn't see this in some scum games I read, although those scum games are old, AFAIK. Emphasis mine: On April 07 2019 20:29 Pandain wrote: I'm actually happy I was busy because the discussion on me helped make the thread alive and was very useful. I mean, I'm going to be honest, I'm 100% a lurker at this point with only a short paragraph as a post. This is my fault for not explaining, I should have explained more. It's not at all that they claimed they have win conditions which make me think rayne and TW are town. It's what they posted that demonstrates a town mentality. It's not the win condition part but rather the above bolded sentence. It strikes me as a townie who has an actual role that he's seriously thinking about and contemplating. I would actually agree that if you have an alternate win condition you're likely not mafia (but maybe! not certain at all!). The fact that this post seems very genuine makes me think he's telling the truth. Same reasoning for this post. If I was mafia I don't think I would be thinking about my role pm in this way. If I was mafia maybe I write "haha my role pm is weird" or "i have win condition" or speculate about the setup. But the ambiguity of this post and the way he wrote about it "i wonder if this guy in my role pm is mafia" seems a little bit out of left park for mafia. Typing it out makes it seem like a bit of a crapshoot but to be honest that's all day one anyway. All of these reads will change as days actually progress, but this is what I feel right now. This all is hard to explain but it's what I feel. I hope it made some sense to some people. He also talks about mindset contradictions like he does in this game. This might not be a big tell but IMO it's rare that scum will focus on behaviour like that. On April 07 2019 20:33 Pandain wrote: I'm going to vote Mig. I don't have the hours for this day cycle to examine absolutely everyone (though I will go through MZ and damdred and palmar based on discussion), but Mig really stood out to me. Like other's said - an extremely safe post. Not bad in of itself but not good either. Then this seemed extremely contradictory. Mig literally has done nothing this game except the above empty post and ask a couple people some questions. I think whenever someone is an obvious mindset contradiction like this it reeks of mafia. Then, compare how his vote aligns with his thoughts as written in the thread. In this game as well, Pandain often went on about how he was fine with Jock being the lynch but he was pursuing other targets. He did that there as well: On April 07 2019 22:30 Pandain wrote: I just read MZ. I agree it looks contradictory. I don't think it's a bad lynch but I'll keep my vote on Mig for the time being. From that point he tried to get a last minute wagon going and failed (?) There aren't many posts if any after that worth reading because the game was themed and it becomes too setup-focused. I agree that there's probably not much useful signal beyond the early game. Since we seem to have come to opposite conclusions, why? Do you think because you were scum last game your opinion was a bit tainted by the fact that you had more info than you should've? I'm just not seeing why he doesn't look similar here to you. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 06:05 Fecalfeast wrote: I accept the shot on me as I'm not a role I will play this next phase though i swear let's play, FF. Who's scum? You can assume both me and HF are town for this exercise. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 09:34 VisceraEyes wrote: I explained it before - he was active in trying to respond to people and actively questioning people last game, it's littered through his filter there, and it's lacking here. The fact that you found the word "contradictory" in both filters simply isn't interesting to me. Yes, obviously it's possible that my view was tainted because I had information, but I'm discussing objective observations made when looking at the two filters in /this/ game where I'm town. I really don't want to quote wall but I will bugs, I'll fucking do it. And yes, I'm aware that there's going to be a fair amount of confirmation bias going forward due to my read of him and then him coming in with that BULLSHIT after the day post. Whatever I'll turn in my townie card if I'm wrong. fair enough, I agree that Pandain hasn't actually done much of use in this game, even though a lot of the hedging is due to apparently not having enough info. I personally didn't read into the absence much because the game is low activity already and it's hard to just be like "oh yeah I don't believe the RL reasons you provided for not being here" Do you think he's the best lynch? What are the alternatives on your mind? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
COME ON YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN VE LOL | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 09:37 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Back when VE started playing, I pushed for his mislynch a lot for behavior that he's displaying right now, after I played with him more I realized that's just how he plays town. So I have a town read on him. I hated Pandain's post flip stuff as we've already been over, however we were in the middle of discussing you vs HF when VE popped in with the posts about Pandain. I even agree with VE on the content there, however if you flip scum (which I'm fairly sure you will) it looks like VE made an out of character chainsaw defense of you before HF claimed. However its your last little line which caught my attention, what do you mean by setting up a lynch? First off I have zero thread pull so suggesting I'm going to get someone lynched is hysterical. Secondly, you have talked about Pandain probably more than any other player in this game, you've gone from town reading him, to calling him scum, to calling him town, to listing him in your "possibles" category and with your last post you seem completely confused with him. All that is to say, why do you have an issue with me reading Pandain as scummy when you have literally done that twice or three times yourself? blah blah blah first paragraph is lots of nothing about VE and me flipping scum, it won't happen. If you're scum, I'm getting the impression that you're setting up two things here. One obviously won't happen because if you're scum you already know I'm town. The natural progression is for the thing that you're not highlighting right now to be the thing you set up when I flip -> lynch Pandain I don't personally see Pandain as scummy and I find this characterization by you really strange because if you are town you can just read my posts and take them at literal face value, it's not like I'm trying to hide anything. Even in the post where I list him in "possibles" I say: I'd personally put Pandain in "probably not" but whatever, I've been wrong before. The only thing you've done of note all game is sheep people, particularly HF and now seemingly you're setting everything up to sheep VE. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 09:41 Fecalfeast wrote: Why would I assume you are town you've been red checked I'd probably say rels because he's mia and seeing that vivax was going to not play he probably screwed off himself assume I'm town because it'll make your brain work less hard when I actually flip that. I'm 100% the lynch today and trust me, if you're town the game will be far easier down the line if you work with me this cycle and just assume I'm town. I have no agenda, I'm completely transparent, you can ask me whatever you want to know. I'm basically just a ticking time bomb at this point so you might as well make use of my opinions while you can. If you think Rels is scum why would you also think I am scum? Rels called me scum before the flip. Do you think if he were scum with me and he saw both HF and rayn attacking me (I was basically dead even before the red check tbh, because rayn tunneled me for some reason) he would do that? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 09:54 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Bugs this waffling on Pandain is not working for me. You have called him scum and backed off several times now. I'm all for people "evolving" their views but for you to say wanting Pandain dead makes me scum is flat out ignoring your own (very recent) reads. If you want to accuse me of sheeping go right ahead, I wasn't around at the day flip so I didn't have the chance to be the first person to talk about how trash Pandain's posts were. You talk about some "setup" as if you also weren't reading Pandain as red yesterday. You can talk all you want about transparency of reads and that stuff but at some point it just starts to look like you're trying to figure out what the "right" read is to have on Pandain bc holy smokes do you talk about him a lot in your filter. lie. It was once, and it was fairly short lived. And yes, obviously I'm trying to figure out Pandain's alignment given that there is a bunch of talk about him and I've tried to reconcile why particularly rayn, HF, and VE are all in agreement that he's scum with the fact that I don't think he's scum. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 07:58 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Do you? I think Pandain's post N1 stuff looks terrible. I was liking what HF posted before he even claimed a check on you so that was just a warm fuzzy. VE is almost always town, however the Pandain push is going to look very suspect if you flip red. I feel like that was pretty obvious from my post. If you want more opinions on individuals you'll have to wait until I've filtered people. If you have anyone you'd like me to address first just let me know. Let's hear what you have to say on BC. I'm assuming right now you think he's town and I want to hear why. I also want to know what you think of Koshi and FF. Like I said to FF feel free to assume I'm town as you respond to me, because that's what I'll flip. If you're town, it's going to make your life much easier later. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 04:33 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Mostly caught up at the moment. Pandain/Grack are both shady to me thus far from what i've read. Mainly as both of them have been fairly active overall but the content they have both posted is basically non existent. This is very very similar to how Pandain posted in end of the world mafia. Ie situationally active and talks about things but never seriously pushes them. Trying to hard imo to appear as town while providing no effort. The next big tell for me is he actively agreed with the Jock Lynch but opted to vote for someone who hadn't started posting yet then swapped his vote with 0 stated reasons. Grack literally had a filter of 0 content for how long it is so he is clearly around but not doing anything of value. Although at this point I feel that one of HF/Rayn/Bugs could be mafia. Unsure of who. Bugs as mafia (in the past) when I have played with him has been super aggressive similar to how aggressive I can be and hes not this game. However I disagree with basically all his reads and I think he should be better than that. I personally find reading HF and Rayn insanely hard and until I am 100% sure one of them is mafia I am not prepared for the potential shit storm that creates. BC let's talk. The situation you talked about with myself & rayn & HF has already resolved itself. I am town though, so there is nothing here to read into, really. I want to hear your opinions about players other than myself and HF, given that our alignments are resolved. Which reads of mine did you disagree with? Here's the list prior to the daypost, to jog your memory: Scum MZ BC HF Vivax Possible FF Neutral Rels iGrok/Alakaslam (absent) Koshi Lean town Pandain Town VE rayn grack | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 23:39 Vivax wrote: MZ stuff was just bleh and uninteresting. Why does it make him mafia if he says that he's glad nobody claimed scum yet?It's a wonky thing to say and that's about it. Maybe Bugs and FF can explain how saying that makes people scum cause I don't see it. And if you're going to say that town MZ should be glad that people scumclaim, imagine how glad mafia MZ would be if it was townies scumclaiming like in 99 % of the cases, given that you are implying you would vote them off for those claims. In summary, wary of FF cause not shitposting and looking more like a serious mafia FF with that vote. On May 02 2019 14:16 Fecalfeast wrote: maf BC vivax maf-ish grack? wbg MZ towny rayn koshi ve hf that's from a once over of the thread based on feels. thinking about hf's pandain case so i haven't placed him yet. rels can die too I can elaborate or whatever if ppl ask i'll be up all night I think Anyone else find this really really weird? VE what does your paranoia tell you? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 10:33 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: ohhh now we're having fun, why on earth do you think I read BC as town? I'll get to the others in a second but I wanna know where this "MZ reads BC town" came from. just a hunch, since you agreed with the same wagon on d1, and you think I am scum & making associations on VE & Pandain. I find it hard to believe that anyone could think I am scum with BC but maybe I just don't really understand how mafia works anymore. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 09:41 Fecalfeast wrote: Why would I assume you are town you've been red checked I'd probably say rels because he's mia and seeing that vivax was going to not play he probably screwed off himself Have you placed Pandain yet? Mind posting another full list of yours, with Pandain included? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 10:50 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Well I really don't like either of these two incredibly opportunistic posts right here. And you and BC could very easily be scum together so let's not get all caught up in wifom as to why you two "couldn't be scum together" shall we. I would say BC is less likely to flip red than Pandain but I certainly don't have him as turbo town. Koshi is null: But I would love to get a follow on with that. Rels... might actually be a great follow on if Pandain isn't scum: This post right here was two hours before them flip, funny how it mentions vivax who scum probably would have known by then was gonna get modkilled... okay, so just to clarify: 1. you're assuming I am scum 2. you're fairly convinced Pandain is scum 3. You're townish on BC? Less likely than Pandain but not turbo town? What's keeping you from taking a stance on BC? 4. Koshi is null/unreadable. 5. Rels might be a good lead IFF Pandain is not scum because he might have slipped on knowing about Vivax. Is that right? Can you clarify on #3? I want to hear more about BC. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 11:12 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Jesus you are dense You have a red check backing up good analysis done by HF, of course I think you're scum Yes I have no idea how you got townish on BC, if anything I'd say scummish. The only reason you don't think I have a stance on BC is bc you're being obtuse. I think he made two very opportunistic posts and aside from that has done fuck all. Rels is probably scum before BC because of his TMI post but if by some godawful stroke of luck you are a miller and Pandain is also town then BC would be next up of most likely suspects in my eyes. Yes Yes I mean you literally said less likely than Pandain but not turbo town and there's a huge gray area there, just trying to confirm what you are saying because you're not making it easy to understand your actual stance. On May 03 2019 11:18 Alakaslam wrote: Hot damn VE cut the wrist and all that came out was salt have you caught up? How do you read Pandain, FF, and Rels? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
HF has a red check on me so let's assume he's not mafia. I'm going to tell you now I will flip town-if I flip VT then you can kill HF ezpz, miller he's town. Got 2 other people who look like scum to you? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
that's pretty silly | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
##vote Holyflare | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 00:03 Holyflare wrote: Imagine wanting to lynch me for just being me. I feel personally attacked. shh only I get to say things like this | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 00:03 Holyflare wrote: Who said I'm not the cop anyway? no one knows what you're doing and it's wasting a lot of time and posts. There's nothing about what you are doing that's pro-town and you know it 100% | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 01:27 VisceraEyes wrote: HE EVEN CONGRATULATED THE DOC JESUS CHRIST GUYS What do you mean he congratulated the doc? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I’m having a hard time seeing Pandain’s absence as being highly alignment indicative this game regardless of what he actually promised given that there are at least two other players doing similar things (Rels and BC are the ones that immediately come to mind) and this game is already low activity. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 01:49 VisceraEyes wrote: You think it's better or worse than a lynch on you? That's the question that matters currently. Literally any lynch is more likely to catch a scum than lynching me but I’m not the right person to ask that :p I am pretty fine with dying though because it’s clear that my continued presence is going to eat up a lot of town discussion. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
OTOH from mafia perspective it’s great, because it gives him the opportunity to line up a lynch when one of us flips town, and basically allows him to continue to get away with doing jack shit, because he’ll just be like “lol one out of two mafia and we got unlucky today just kill the other” | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 01:58 VisceraEyes wrote: Nah, this hasn't been my experience at all. I've seen a lot of townies do that shit. In video it's REALLY prevalent because the games are shorter and there's no going back, so people equivocate more. sure lots of baddies do it, are you saying you think HF is bad as town? For a vet this is nothing but a scumtell IMO HF is even seemingly self-aware of this particular bit | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 01:55 VisceraEyes wrote: In seriousness though, I've never seen you offer yourself up as town. Literally never. I’m doing it 1. because I have little confidence I can prevent a lynch on myself today, the momentum is just too large and it seems that there is nothing I can actually do or say for people to not vote me, and 2. because when I flip, town can just read my posts at face value and know I’m not trying to pull the wool over their eyes. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 02:04 VisceraEyes wrote: Why are you focusing on HF to exclusion? I thought you were suspicious of BC? MZ? You should know that "punishing bad play" isn't going to fly here, with this player list. What's going on here? I’m focused on HF because almost everything he’s done is blatantly anti-town. Is he claiming cop? Fake claiming cop? Who knows. When called out he doesn’t actually divulge any info, he’s unnecessarily hostile and misrepresents events on a regular basis, and he clearly doesn’t care to figure out the game; apparently rereading after you incorrectly push a townie on d1 regardless of how well-thought your reasoning was is apparently only for suckers. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 02:08 VisceraEyes wrote: THERES NO MOMENTUM! That's probably the scummiest thing you've said today Bugs. Mafia tend to have a bleaker outlook on their own prospects than the reality of their situation. The only reason people are voting you right now is the claim. In SPITE of the fact that HF is notorious for fake-claiming, there was the possiblity he wasn't so the votes ensued. And now he's dropped that claim. There is NO momentum to lynch you right now, but it probably FEELS like there is. excuse me? I already had several votes before the claim, and I was confident I’d be dead before the claim as well which is why I tried to self-vote before the claim. It comes down to rayn listing Vivax & Me & Pandain as scum right before he died. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
However like I said earlier I literally don’t think it matters what I say because no matter what I say people are going to think I am scum and trying to pull the wool over their eyes or whatever. Since that’s clearly the case the best move is to just kill me ASAP because it gets rid of a useless discussion vector. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I think BC regardless of alignment is more likely to side with me over HF just based on how I know he operates. More important will be his manner and how he votes/pushes a lynch today | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 02:23 VisceraEyes wrote: The only vote before the claim was Koshi, who has be unabashed about sheeping rayn. There simply never was any momentum to lynch you until the claim. We're seeing you flail. It's actually sad. ##Vote: wherebugsgo This is not true, all four of the votes occurred before HF said he had a red check on me. Yeah, I’m counting my self-vote, but whatever. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 09:03 VisceraEyes wrote: inb4 Pandain ACTUALLY mafia and then bussed BC because VE convinced him it was a good idea I have no idea why but it looked like that to me as well I’m coming around on Pandain being scum, these posts are awful | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 08:17 VisceraEyes wrote: wbg goes inactive at the craziest time. Figures Bro it’s 9 am here, I live in Asia | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
If you have notes on the game, now’s the time.. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On balance the only reason I can think of that there might be 2 kp is if there were temporarily an extra kp on n1 because the game has 14 players and typical minis are 13. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 05:17 BloodyC0bbler wrote: What a cluster fuck -_- Everything I just read screams of a town bugs vs a town HF. You two need to stop funneling eachother and take a step back and breathe ffs. TBH if you look based purely on activity since the flip the people based on absence that look the worst. Pandain Rels Me As we have all been mia. As much as me being at work then sleeping makes sense to me, enough people in mafia lie about why they aren't around to avoid the fos so meh. IMO the shit pandain did when he came back into thread did not exonerate him. He was a top lynch pick of more than 1 person and all hes done is appear to basically claim town cred then bounce. Given that I was already suspicious of him and the whole attempting to claim town cred and vanishing looks slimy as fuck, hes red in my mind unless he can change my mind before he flips. The thing with rels. He was "inactive" in thread in the end of the world mafia when he and I were on a team together until he couldn't be anymore. Even then he tried to fly under the radar. However he was stupidly active in the mafia QT. as much as part of me wants to say hes red. Currently he just looks like he has 0 time and no motivation to play. As hes basically almost at the modkill point id leave him for that / wait and see if he appears just long enough to skirt the posting / voting requirements. Also just quoting this for my own future thoughts based on how flips play out as the post stood out as a glaring wtf all of todays posting I was reading. man this followed by the post after it might be the scummiest thing in the entire game | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 09:32 Holyflare wrote: Probably correct but op says no such thing and theres no given mafia vig role. It would have to be factional 1 time kp which is sneaky from mods. It also means a pretty bad slip from panda. actually the more I think about it, I think the KP bit is not alignment indicative I can’t actually think of a good reason for someone from either faction to speculate about a doctor save. It looks bad, but I’m not sure it’s scummy. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 09:32 Pandain wrote: Dude my thoughts on MZ are literally in the same post, what are you even thinking. And I literally voted dude. I’m asking you to resynthesize. idgaf if you posted something before, and I don’t care much that you voted either. If you believe BC is scum why aren’t you trying to convince others to join you? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 09:44 Pandain wrote: I don't have unlimited time to play this game. In fact to the contrary, I usually have very limited time. It's why I prioritize and choose useful times I can post (and the main reason I was okay playing a bad n1, since I was unlikely to die). If you want me to restate things becuase you hope to catch me contradicting me previously, than you should realize I can just look at previous posts and make sure that happens. Conversely, if I'm town, what I say shouldn't be different anwyay. And who I want to lynch is probably who I voted... And I made like 3-4 posts, no one even responded. At this point it's clear people have made up their mind one way or the other. I don't have anything new to add, I might switch to a MZ counterwagon if it's the only way to save myself. Maybe if I had a free day tomorrow I would spam post to save myself, but unfortunately I don't. The only closing words I'll say to townies is even if you're pretty sure I'm mafia, look at other people. And hopefully you realize that at least I shouldn't be lynched "today" You don’t have that much time so you spend a bunch of time speculating about kp and posting this drivel instead of just explaining your read further? Can you point me to the posts you made which you think no one responded to? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 09:52 VisceraEyes wrote: I just forgot about that shit and am a retarded American don't mind me dude. What do you make of BC’s giant post, dump of reads, and subsequent return to lurkerville? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 10:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I was asked about Mafia KP. Mafia KP is fixed at 1. k now we can stop speculating on useless stuff | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 10:25 VisceraEyes wrote: It was in the OP, your dumbtell is not accepted. Really? I don’t remember seeing it in the OP | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 09:43 wherebugsgo wrote: btw based on the wording of the role PMs I think it can’t be a slip because the mafia PMs say “each night the mafia must choose a person to kill” I’m guessing you missed my post here VE | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
When I get some time I’ll try to dig around and see if BC posts read lists in other games, cause his play in this game really bothers me | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 10:44 VisceraEyes wrote: Pandain does have a partner though. I wanna say MZ, but that would mean rayn solved the game before me and I would really just kinda feel bad. Doc should have been on rayn. FUCK YOU DOC!!! What? Rayn never thought MZ was scum, he ranted for a long time asking why I thought MZ was scum. I remember him saying something like he thinks all of Rels & MZ & FF are town and his final reads list was Vivax, myself, Pandain, and oddly FF thrown in there | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Can you explain why you prefer to lynch Rels over Pandain now? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
If I put myself in the shoes of a town Pandain, I don’t find any things that stand really far out of place. The only thing I wish he’d do more is push his reads instead of focusing on himself but I think this is a tall ask for me to make. His points on BC are all completely reasonable and accurate as well. The best reason to think Pandain is scum is over the Jock vote business, but there are a ton of other things that overshadow that for me. My perspective on Jock was not all that different from Pandain’s either, so I totally get the idea that Pandain thinks it’s an unfair characterization to get attacked for not voting for Jock. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 11:20 Pandain wrote: I made a post off the cuff about kp that happened to be wrong and then got called out. It is what it is. At the time it was the BC post, no one commented about it at all outside of a joke post by VE, now I see some comments which is good. I don't have much to add, you can agree with it or not. Let’s work together in whatever time you have. I’m not sure if I can prevent a lynch on you nor do I know if I want to at this point but if you are town then I’m basically your only defender. Let’s imagine you are correct about BC being scum. 1. Do you find any interactions between other players and BC/vice versa that stood out to you? 2. Specifically on MZ, if BC died and flipped scum would you feel more or less confident on MZ? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 11:58 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I know that HF posted this as a reason to vote for pandain. However with the mod confirmation of fixed 1 kp I am inclined to think this post alone would exonerate pandain. Why? Because if you have more information than the rest of the game (being mafia) you tend to be super careful in regards to talking about kp, being vague or what not. I don't see a player of pandains experience being mafia in this case. Fuck. Why do you have MZ lean town? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 12:07 BloodyC0bbler wrote: bugs as for a questions for you. Who would you say is currently controlling the flow of this game player wise? IE who has the most influence currently. no one. If I had to pick one player, the closest would be HF. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 12:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Why HF over say VE? As of this moment I feel VE has the closest thing to thread control. HF is the only person in the thread who has consistently managed to get a wagon going. Jock, myself, Pandain. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 12:23 Fecalfeast wrote: I kinda hate this post. It sorta frames yesterday as being all about rayn and who rayn wanted to lynch when there was actually quite a bit of turbulence from what I can tell reading the end of day after the fact. Then trying to claim points for saying that a 'couple mafia were maybe on jock' as if anyone gives a shit about VCA that basically says 'I think maybe mafia had a hand in killing this towny!' Two paragraphs that kinda boil down to "not my fault, remember how I scumread vivax?" his summary is not inaccurate, just go back and read it from his perspective. Say Pandain is town. He is not sold on Jock. He's around for lynch. He asks anyone in the thread if they're up for a switch to Rels. rayn is around and says no, only Vivax or me. Pandain agrees with rayn on Vivax (but not me) so he switches to Vivax and tries to get shenanigans. I think boiling this down to "I'm not scum because I scumread vivax" is oversimplistic. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 12:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Question for you, then. Outside of fake claiming to kill you. Does he seem to be aggressively pushing targets right now? He doesn't seem to be aggressive in pushing to me, no. I'd classify his play as opportunistic in this game. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 12:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Because bugs has some kind of block about me where he just thinks I'm useless every game. Don't mind bugs. I don't think you're useless, you're my strongest town ATM but I also am very aware of who has thread pull and who doesn't. You have thread pull, just not as much as HF. And in this game, while you have a lot more thread pull than others on relative terms, no one has any pull in absolute terms and that matters a lot. Like I said earlier in this game, reputation on this forum matters as well and I think it's often taken for granted. I'm not feeling a Pandain lynch. I'm voting HF. ##unvote ##vote Holyflare | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 12:29 VisceraEyes wrote: Still not accepting dumbtells. btw you should drop this subject, it is not clear from the OP what mafia KP is even if there's a hint to it in the mafia role descriptions. I asked the question about how KP is calculated in PMs. You know as well as I do that I carefully read the OP in every game. The proof of this is in the post where I mention the exact same thing you quoted from the OP. At any rate, myself, Pandain, and BC can't all dumbtelling. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 12:34 VisceraEyes wrote: It's why I think HF's play is so strong - he mixes the old style of play where he can string more than three sentences together in a post with the newer style of play where he's aware of the thread and interacts with it a lot...and it comes across as opportunistic and scummy in a really general sense, so it makes him hard to read by default. he's not aware of the thread though, he's been consistently wrong about how events have unfolded and this has been pointed out several times already. Look at some of my rebuttals to him, for example. It's basically like he's coming in periodically, catching up and not actually spending time trying to figure out alignments, just finding surface-level things to nitpick and blow out of proportion. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 07:32 wherebugsgo wrote: HF I think you played your hand too hard here BC, MZ, HF, at least one of you is town unless this is a bastard 4 scum setup. Come help me figure out the game while I'm still alive. As long as we're lynching me just assume I'm town. You can discard everything I say never, because I won't flip scum. HF if I'm wrong about you and these are not massive scum tells of you defending Vivax for no reason but then putting him as scum for equally no reason, please do explain yourself. Why was Vivax so special, out of the "do nothingers" that he had such a great honour of being in your kill list? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 12:49 BloodyC0bbler wrote: TBH I am currently filter diving HF as hes had a few posts that make me reallllly question him. I asked VE and you questions basically to ensure that my general though process isn't well, insane. The fact that VE holds the same opinion as me in that HF is normally aggressive and well, I am not seeing that this game. And haven't during any of it. End of the world he was aggressive and was a center of spawning conversation whereas this game he isn't and instead he comes off almost apathetic to my eyes. So now I dive and re read things in context to what was happening in thread. I would suggest first diving HF, then reading in context of the rest of the posts (there aren't many in this game, so it shouldn't take long. That's a nice thing about low activity) Then, once you've come to some conclusion, I'd suggest looking at my interactions with HF from my filter, and see if your conclusion changes after seeing my perspective. BTW, the activity bit made me realise one other thing. I wouldn't classify this town as cohesive nor do I think it's a particularly active game. HF is an active player as either alignment and I think moderate activity is great for town while extremes (very low/very high) are often bad for finding scum. HF tends toward a higher-activity type player, but as far as I can tell has expressed no frustrations this game that there are a ton of players who haven't contributed, or haven't even bothered to vote. His attitude comes across more like just apathy and I find it hard to believe that a high activity town player like him wouldn't be a little bothered that they can't easily figure out the game due to people just not participating. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 13:06 VisceraEyes wrote: BRO YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW PISSED I'M GONNA BE IF PANDAIN IS MAFIA AND WE DECIDE TO LYNCH TOWN HF dude I 100% agree with you here. However at some point I need to put my money where my mouth is, idc if literally everyone else thinks Pandain is scum, I'm sticking to my guns and not buying it. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 03 2019 11:12 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Jesus you are dense You have a red check backing up good analysis done by HF, of course I think you're scum Yes I have no idea how you got townish on BC, if anything I'd say scummish. The only reason you don't think I have a stance on BC is bc you're being obtuse. I think he made two very opportunistic posts and aside from that has done fuck all. Rels is probably scum before BC because of his TMI post but if by some godawful stroke of luck you are a miller and Pandain is also town then BC would be next up of most likely suspects in my eyes. Yes Yes Also the last "Yes" here is confirming this: "Rels might be a good lead IFF Pandain is not scum because he might have slipped on knowing about Vivax." On May 04 2019 03:30 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Ok two hours to go. I want to do shenanigans. HF not around to defend or explain his actions is making me not like the bugs lynch more and more. Like I said early game, I'd rather not just lynch through the most active voices who find themselves on the wrong thread sentiment. I would like to go after Rels for the tmi post and complete afk. After the death of the gf I'd imagine scum morale is pretty low and if townies are pointing fingers at townies their best strategy is to lurk. Weird things here: 1. HF is not around to defend/explain. Why would MZ not comment here on HF then?? Does he think HF is scummier for it? He clearly thinks I'm less likely to be scum but why does me being scum hinge on HF being around and not, you know, his own reading of the game??? 2. The progression from earlier based on my highlight would be me/Pandain, THEN BC, THEN Rels. Okay, if MZ thinks me & Pandain are both town then that's fine, but the only suggestion that MZ is even thinking about Pandain is this post somewhat before: On May 04 2019 02:06 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: HF you really need to explain your whole bugs thing. Also Pandain's absence is really annoying And why would an absence make someone more town? The second half of that statement in that above post, this: Like I said early game, I'd rather not just lynch through the most active voices who find themselves on the wrong thread sentiment. I would like to go after Rels for the tmi post and complete afk. is also really weird. It's like MZ is self-aware his stated top "scumreads" are all "active" players: Myself, Pandain, BC in that order. However BC didn't come back and show any sort of activity either, so why has Rels suddenly jumped to the top of the list? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Rels is probably scum before BC because of his TMI post but So it's not completely weird, but the point still stands that BC had not reentered the thread when MZ was all like "yeah let's kill Rels for not doing anything and posting about Vivax being scum" Half the players in the game said Vivax was scum at some point, e.g. Grack also said if Vivax is scum we could get him day 2. Rels mentioning only me and Vivax is also completely understandable if he focused a lot on rayn's posts because we were the two main players rayn called out. The OP makes activity & voting rules fairly clear for this game so if Rels ever shows up again we can discuss at that point. Currently though it's a waste of time. I'm going to be gone for a while, here's my current state of the game: ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/O6tjH8E.png) | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
looks like we're at bargaining atm | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 20:42 Pandain wrote: Like what does HF really believe outside of me and bugs? It's not obvious . and he supposedly plays a conversational game, yet every time myself or rayn or anyone else tried to ask him about reads he'd troll or say he already talked about them (when he didn't) and when pushed to the point where refusing would be too scummy he'd say nothing. He's still doing that actually, in his rant he randomly mentions MZ as a lurker (wat) | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 17:48 Holyflare wrote: If dodging means skipping over it because it should be really obvious then yes. I didn't think what vivax had done was enough to read him anything, as stated in all of those posts. I still don't know why, for the fourth time, you quote my poe post as if it's some revelation. It's poe, process of elimination. The list is simply people I don't town read that I think are most likely to be mafia because it's within their range. That is why vivax is there because his activity is either afk or his staple mafia play. That is why koshi, who I actually town read slightly day 1 is there, because koshi is perfectly capable of appearing town for short spans of time day 1. it's PoE but it's missing MZ and grack, the latter of which you've mentioned a whopping total of what...never? Once or twice at most? We're not playing the same game if you think MZ is a lurker, either. Here's what HF posted in his big rant. He talks about breaking down his thoughts but literally nothing he posted is new, it's just a rehashing of the same old same old that's been rebutted 5000 times. On May 04 2019 17:43 Holyflare wrote: I'm not gonna lie I'm really busy and that's almost eerily accurate to exactly how I'm playing this game though. It's a lie I'm not aware of the thread though, I just don't allude to everything I'm thinking. I'll break it down: I didn't and still don't like Pandain's day 1. I don't care if it's how you felt and if vivax was on Jock, Jock was a good vote that Pandain supported it but at every opportunity was wishy washy af about joining it ESPECIALLY as his reason for voting rels was pointed out as incorrect repeatedly. Yeah, you and he call it hedging and whatever but to me it doesn't look like hedging, it now looks quite like he may have seen a mafia partner on Jock and not wanted to join it. if we're going to talk wishy washy, minus actual votes (because he hasn't yet voted, not once) this all equally applies to MZ but here we are nearing the end of D2 and you still don't have an opinion on him. The last part is just baseless speculation. On May 04 2019 17:43 Holyflare wrote:I didn't like all the credit he's trying to take for the vivax flip or how he talked about being banned for just bussing in one breath while then changing his tune to saying another thing about bussing in another breath. what in the fuck are you talking about? This is such a misrepresentation of what actually happened. all he said was that people who are willing to lynch him who aren't looking at the vote situation on d1 are missing the fact that given how many people hadn't voted, it would be highly risky to try and off his teammate if he were scum. He then said if bussing is common on the forum then we can just consider this a null tell, because of your protests about it. On May 04 2019 17:43 Holyflare wrote: I think his post on BC isn't exactly wrong in any regard but it looks very much like just a deflection to someone equally afk rather than a constructive scum read. baseless speculation. Also BC was legitimately scummy until just earlier today when he reentered the thread. You can only get away with town reading BC "because he only said things you agreed with" for so long. On May 04 2019 17:43 Holyflare wrote:I'd probably vote a lurker over him at this point though like mz who just asks questions over and over again but doesn't really contribute anything himself. Maybe actually alakaslam who I forgot was even in the game. MZ is a lurker? ROFL On May 04 2019 17:43 Holyflare wrote: Bugs, I dunno about you. I genuinely thought you were mafia and still hedge over you repeatedly. I look for how people spend their little time in the game and you spent an inordinate amount of time defending Pandian n1 before Pandain had even commented on anything. Your narrative didn't gel with my own meta on Pandain in the slightest and certainly, after just playing with him, his 1 game meta feels wildly different from last game did. That's why I claimed a red check on you. Partly to see how you'd react, which was horribly, pretty much just accepting my check was real and assuming you were a miller and that I'd never do this as mafia while simultaneously trying to shit all over it and give situations where I'm mafia. I think your Pandain repeated defence this cycle isn't necessarily out of character based on your n1 but it seems like that was all you were doing. If you're town, after we established that your ability to read meta sucks nards on d1 w.r.t Jock I'd imagine that you might actually consider what I had to say but you just brushed me off. You never tried to work with me despite the multiple times I tried to open a conversation with you, and you even trolled the rayn when he asked you about your read on me. In hindsight that smells a lot like you were stalling as long as possible so you wouldn't have to commit to anything when talking to rayn because you knew he would die soon afterward anyway. On May 04 2019 17:43 Holyflare wrote:I dunno if I'm just not invested in mafia anymore or if I'm just busy but it feels unfun to play this game. I think it might be mainly the activity of other people and I just got tired of talking to mafia reads while everyone else afks. In fact that's most likely it. Tbh even my mafia read afkd so maybe it's just everyone afking I hate. I normally don't read too much into statements like these because I assume they're probably pretty legit and honest. I think this is actually HF's real opinion here, but not because he's town. It's far more likely IMO that HF is just sad that he got stuck with a shit team and his GF got modkilled n1. I also think that HF didn't feel this way earlier in the game because he 1. trolled rayn and to a lesser extent trolled me as well, 2. seemed happy enough before: On May 02 2019 08:06 Holyflare wrote: I'm having so much fun though :D On May 02 2019 05:06 Holyflare wrote: ![[image loading]](https://media1.tenor.com/images/02b02664d3572560d1e977011c88a094/tenor.gif) and to top it all off 3. HF has never actually done anything this game to try and fix this problem; in fact, despite saying he's a conversational scumhunter he's actively made it worse by withholding reads, not responding, and not initiating any conversations himself. All of this supposed frustration this game seems to only be coming up now after I posted my suspicion of a lack of frustration about activity on HF's part. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/17uKAKK.png) | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 21:51 Holyflare wrote: Do you want me to pick and choose between mz on almost no posts/koshi on almost no posts and alakaslam the unreadable mess? I mean, you have to choose someone even according to your own logic because you said myself and Pandain can't be scum together | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 22:03 Holyflare wrote: You guys are fucking morons. I'm the veteran, put two and two things together. I thought pandain was mafia and voted him because he alluded to there being 2kp and it being blocked and I was a very likely target to be shot. I asked artanis to clarify the kp, not bugs, because it didn't say it in the OP and if you actually read the thread I'm the one asking about it. I fake claimed cop because I was likely one of the only blues in the game and probably could. Just because I don't give a shit doesn't make me mafia. There's 100s of my town games where I just don't give a shit about the game and conveniently this just happens to be a weekend I'm busy purchasing a house. Why should I talk about anyone else when mz is a lurker in my point of view. He comes in to make one post or two every 24 hours. Koshi similarly. Alakaslam no idea whatsoever. I think it's pretty opportune to push me over any of these people when anyone knows the only alignment I actually care about winning is as mafia. Town I just want to be correct and do my own thing. sick scum claim, HF is now trying to change the narrative on the KP question LOL I sent a PM and asked how is KP calculated right after posting this: On May 04 2019 09:37 wherebugsgo wrote: actually the more I think about it, I think the KP bit is not alignment indicative I can’t actually think of a good reason for someone from either faction to speculate about a doctor save. It looks bad, but I’m not sure it’s scummy. I also claimed the question immediately after and tried to shut down the talk about KP because HF was using it to call Pandain scum. HF doesn't even mention it until 8 hours later: Sure, he was asleep or whatever, so timing doesn't work. Fine. But he wasn't the only one speculating nor wondering about KP, given that I was in the thread literally at the same time. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 22:20 Holyflare wrote: So what if you did? It's not a scum claim. I literally voted Pandain because I'm the veteran and thought his 2kp thing was a slip so thus I asked the question. What's my mafia explanation bugs and why are you trying to twist it to something when it's really quite straightforward? cool story bro, it's literally unbelievable that if you're actually the veteran it took you 30+ minutes to vote him after he talked about there being multiple KP. If you're actually the veteran you'd have just called him scum in the exact same post immediately rather than going to read the OP, asking him if he's dumbtelling, asking him if he's played in a game of this size with more than 1 kp, etc. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 22:23 Holyflare wrote: Please answer this bugs. Why do you incessantly push my poe list as something scummy? Do you understand what poe is? IF. IT. IS. P.O.E. AND. YOU. HAVE. NEVER. READ. M.Z. AS. TOWN. WHY. IS. HIS. NAME. NOT. THERE? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2019 22:39 Holyflare wrote: Not really unbelievable at all? I checked op after he said it and it said nothing. I asked him to clarify since just voting him would likely reveal my role and then I asked artanis for clarification twice. Once to see if I get notified which was actually in the op that I didn't read and a second to ask about whether mafia would have an extra factional kp would it be in the op since there wasn't an extra role with kp. All those things take time. Also just because I haven't read someone doesn't mean they can't be in my poe? They're in my poe exactly because I haven't read them and my gut from interaction wasn't a town read. keep digging yourself deeper, your explanations just keep surfacing more questions and make it clear you're just making this up on the spot. If you asked for clarification and were worried about revealing your role by just voting him why wouldn't you wait until after the question was answered to vote him? Also, if FF and slam were voting your supposed scumread of Pandain, why the fuck would they be completely null to you? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 03:15 Grackaroni wrote: Your end of day 1 posts read heavily to me like you knew Vivax would flip scum later in the game and wanted your vote on him to look good. You asked Rayn if he would switch to Rels. He said he the only vote he would switch to was Vivax. It would look really strange imo if you came out against lynching Vivax after expressing interest in switching up the vote, so I don't see you ever not voting Vivax as scum in that position. If you wanted a WBG lynch then conceivably you would have voted him already. For the third part, I think it was pretty clear from the game being 20 pages long and me/Rayn/you being the only ones there that there wasn't going to be a sudden urge of interest in the last ten minutes. I think you misread what happened, maybe because you only looked at filters. Rayn said he only wanted to lynch bugs (me) or Vivax. Pandain says he didn’t want to vote me so he picked Vivax. Go back and reread this, it’s not a point against Pandain, because Vivax was not the only choice presented. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 02:23 Grackaroni wrote: From the way I saw it Vivax was a pretty good lynch just from lynching into a player that wasn't posting (and also is bad at scum) without having any strong scum reads but I didn't think he had all that much better odds of flipping mafia than most of the other players from just his two posts. I think Pandain really played up the end of the day vote after Rayn said he wanted to vote Vivax. This reads to me like: "now that I'm bussing I want to get as much credit as possible from the vote." There are several things wrong with this analysis. First of all, and most basically, none of the first 4 posts are alignment indicative. If you want to argue the fifth post makes Pandain look like scum, and this is really the crux of the argument here, you have to do several things, the first of which is assuming Pandain is scum. Sure, if you assume Pandain is scum, that looks like a scummy thing to say. However, we all know this is not how you scumhunt because you don't assume your premise before you go looking for evidence of it, that's called confirming your bias. If you don't assume Pandain is scum and you want to figure out his alignment, you look at the evidence and say, "Does this make sense from a mafia agenda?" and "Does this only make sense from a mafia agenda?". Typically, affirmative answers to the first question are useful hints but not conclusive, and actually a lot of affirmative answers to "does this make sense from a mafia agenda" are just red herrings. However, affirmative answers to the second question are like gold, because they're so hard to find. I think it's fair to say you are reading far too much into it if you believe that last quote only makes sense from a mafia perspective. Townies lament failed lynches all the time, especially close to the deadline, regardless of whether they end up correct or not. Reading too much into "best" isn't really a great idea either. We have the info that Vivax would have flipped scum, but in that context any townie could say "best" referring to the viable lynches that were on the table, e.g. Jock, Vivax, and Rels. From a Pandain=town perspective, he's telling the truth, it matches the rest of his posts, and thus the statement does make sense from a town perspective and the answer to the question "does this make sense only from a mafia agenda" is no. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 01:46 VisceraEyes wrote: Similarly if I were mafia, you guys would all be FUCKED. Instead, we're likely all just going to be picked off a night at a time until only lurkers remain. On May 05 2019 01:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote: See my issue VE is I am town. But anyone who has played extensively with me as town knows my best performances include pms to bounce ideas off of. Hence how I was asking you and bugs stuff last night to make sure I wasn't seeing things in a weird bubble. Also you have no idea how much I hope both you and bugs are town. Taking a huge leap im not being fucked with. we're in this together unless either or both of you are mafia, then fuck you. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
You should just concede now and save yourself further embarrassment | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 03:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote: So HF, He said he thought Jock was a good lynch, but thought Rels was a better lynch, then chose Vivax for basically the same reason. Fuck, like, He stated his reasons for voting and you are damning him for it. Based on that logic, the fact you fake claimed to kill bugs but are now pushing pandain means we should lynch you because you thought bugs was worth the fake claim. I mean HF literally also said like four times that I am more likely to be scum than Pandain but conveniently his vote never moved to me. Like all that shit about the mod confirmation? If the KP bs was the thing that moved HF over the edge to move his vote from me to Pandain, why wouldn't he move it back to me the moment Artanis confirmed that there's only 1 kp? Nothing else happened inbetween those two events. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 03:39 Holyflare wrote: Should we fucking lynch you or what? What a hypocritical fuck. This is literally what you YOU have said about Pandain. He was the top of your mafia list. NOW IT'S ME WITH THE TWISTING NARRATIVE LOL. it's almost as if players continue to post and things gradually become clearer over time | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 03:40 Holyflare wrote: Extremely convenient. I can only assume you're mafia. as with Meapak, and myself, and Pandain, and BC | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 03:40 Grackaroni wrote: This is bullshit. Holyflare was the person pushing people the hardest outside of maybe Rayn and Bugs acknowledged that earlier unprompted.. you don't seem to understand the difference between having enough cred to get sheeped and actually aggressively pushing your targets. My push on HF = aggressive. HF's push on me, Pandain, and Jock = opportunistic. He literally saw openings in players he thought he could misrepresent and attacked those. Note his voting patterns in particular. He only votes once he knows there is significant momentum on his target. The only exception on face value is his push on me, but that one was easy to predict from a mile away because rayn incorrectly read me and then died-and if HF is scum, he knew that would happen anyway. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 03:45 Grackaroni wrote: I don't understand how you can go from Holyflare is leading the thread to Holyflare isn't pushing people aggressively and is just opportunistic. also note there's a difference between leading wagons and leading scum hunting. Mafia lead wagons all the fucking time, I do this myself. Mafia obviously don't scum hunt. HF never led any scum hunting because if you read his posts it's abundantly clear he's not trying to figure out the game. He's not working from a position of limited information. If he were working with limited information, he would work harder to establish relationships with other townies. Sure, he might have doubts on reading them but he would actively seek out those interactions and try to build an understanding of how the game works. Compare how HF interacted with rayn to how I interacted with rayn. Or compare how HF interacts with literally any of myself, VE, or BC, and then compare how the three of myself, VE, and BC interact with each other. Both mafia and town can lead and push lynches on people from the background, i.e. by sowing opinions in others and taking advantage of opportunities. I don't believe that town HF operates that way though, town HF is far more direct than he is in this game. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 03:54 Holyflare wrote: Where have I misrepresented any of these people? Jock, played extremely differently to any of his games. My meta was correct, it just didn't make him mafia. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/uSr5peS.png) | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 03:59 Holyflare wrote: Because of the whole bugs and pandain interaction yes. That is why I fake claimed to get a reaction from bugs and see if it would solidify that relationship even more. There's a method behind the madness... Somewhere. I had literally 0 reasons not to vote pandain other than bugs and UNTIL pandain did something that went against my ROLE which I would have had to have done so many things to plan for as mafia : Plan to fake cop on bugs while also planning to really have an endgame strat of claiming veteran afterwards and basing my whole play around that claim so that any kind of slip like that I would have instantly outed myself to trade 1 single town player (if I was mafia) for myself and then also have to fucking deal with people asking why I'm not dead the following thousand cycles and arguing about it pointlessly forever. Or I could just do the much simpler mafia strategy of doing none of that and not creating an intricate dichotomy between bugs and pandain and just simply lynch pandain for free be because almost everyone is onboard. No way do I ever do the first. Never. I mean, this would ordinarily be an amazing fucking argument. Like, I actually was on board with "nah HF would never fake claim here as scum" and 100% believed the claim when you made it because I was like he has to be a cop here. But of course, you have a history of fake claiming. and you know that. Which makes all of these completely alignment non-indicative because you and I both know, as some of the better scum players on these forums, that in order not get lynched for a deviation between your town and scum plays you have to do exactly what you would do as town. Or at least, you need to try to do exactly what you think others would expect you to do as town. And in your case, that's fake claim. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 04:04 VisceraEyes wrote: I hope it's not MZ and you're trying to bus him, I'd be pretty disappoint. On May 05 2019 03:37 wherebugsgo wrote: HF, desperately voting MZ at this hour is not going to save him from being lynched tomorrow You should just concede now and save yourself further embarrassment | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 04:09 Holyflare wrote: Ergo.... Nobody is saving me Thus my alignment must be.... doomed scum | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 04:08 Grackaroni wrote: I guess it's mostly up to Rels/Koshi if this lynch is going to change. I don't like this lynch at all. BC's case was just that HF usually plays more aggressively as mafia, and that's definitely not the meta read that people like Rayn/Koshi would use to read HF who are both good players that play with HF frequently. I don't know why BC/WBG are the Holyflare experts when they haven't really played with him in years. I think HF's content has been good this game and I think that he has actually pushed his views aggressively. grack I hope you're just a clueless townie here because if HF flips scum you're going to have a lot of explaining to do | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 04:12 Holyflare wrote: Do you understand how this mafia game works. When have you ever seen a mafia hard defend their teammate like this? I can't even think of any instance. hello? The last game we played together, I did exactly that?? rofl | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 04:17 Holyflare wrote: When did we play together as mafia bugs? we were on opposite teams, IIRC. I was scum with Rayn and someone else who I forget | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
no because MZ is scum | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Can you guess HF's alignment in each of these posts? 1. On November 02 2017 08:31 Holyflare wrote: Vivax came to the thread sheeped a really obvious read and grumbled about being a pro sheep and that's about it. The read itself is imo bad because he's posted since then and vivax didn't use any of that and then he continued to do nothing. Didn't even grumble about me and lynching me which is his favourite pastime. Damerion, as explained, jumped on specifically one shockeyy post and voted to lynch him which is totally out of character from his meandering walls of narrative that eventually lead to a vote in previous games and that instantly jumped out. I don't think he'd do that as town. Ticktock I feel like he comes into the game to make comments that aren't particularly difficult and sounds arbitrary and made up and then he leaves again after "contributing". It feels very artificial to me and I have no idea why so many people say they like it. 2. On May 11 2017 21:19 Holyflare wrote: Well grack definitely can be. I just haven't really looked into anything. Everything he does is weird though. He says df/vivax definitely contains mafia, spends no real time talking about them and votes you instead. He was super submissive to rayn. He spent all that time basically trying to outline to me that your and df's points were different and he had no conclusion on me, you or df other than "people's conclusions can be different" and was just basically arguing for the sake of it. His interactions with me are all defensive. Underwhelming, definitely, scummy motivation, maybe? You've definitely got under his skin at least. 3. On June 05 2018 07:39 Holyflare wrote: I find it incredibly hard to think there's been any mafia motivation in my play. All I've done is call it like I've seen it. If I was wrong then fair enough, I was wrong but just because I haven't had the time to play nor come back with ferocity that you "think" I should have does not make me mafia. It's tough for me to decide what alignment you are though because there's so much stacked up against you. I have a feeling that you're stuck in a corner and instead of natural reevaluation you did the typical mafia scenario of doubling down on your read on me because it makes the most "sense" from your perspective. The problem is it doesn't make sense. Everything you write tries to paint me as some mastermind that played for the long game yet I haven't even really been playing the game so I don't understand how you can simultaneously think both things. It's also quite telling that you said my partner was darthfoley but didn't even look at the vote count last cycle (which you afked your vote on me in) where I actually tried (and almost succeeded) to kill darthfoley, my alleged partner as a shenanigan. What would be the point at all? It's this lack of critical analysis combined with the most posts that I've ever seen you write (and all the day 1 vote crap) that leads me to think you are mafia. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 04:27 Pandain wrote: I don't know I'm thinking about voting MZ. fuck off and don't change your vote. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 04:29 Pandain wrote: I mean if HF is town then it's the single best thing I could do this game. mafia is not about being a hero, it's a team game for a reason. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 04:33 Grackaroni wrote: Shit. #1 I'm pretty sure HF was town and Damerion was different but I think he was also town that game and that I totally called it too. #2 probably HF is town and I am mafia? It sounds a lot like I was mafia. #3 HF mafia? Tbh I probably played in all of these games and still could be wrong. congratulations, you answered incorrectly. your prize for not knowing how to read HF is a ticket to get on this fucking lynch train and sheep the people who do | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
You were only incorrect about the second one, that's scumflare #1 is town vig, Heroes of the Storm killed n2 #2 is mafia vanilla, Generic Mini II lynched d4 #3 is mafia vanilla, Elementary Mafia survived d4 | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 04:45 VisceraEyes wrote: It's fine like, this game has shown me that you really just have no respect for me anyway, so I'm not losing out on anything ![[image loading]](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/276/747/bf9.gif) | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 04:48 VisceraEyes wrote: No I don't really deserve it it's fine. I just was under an illusion that I had it. That illusion doesn't exist anymore. It's actually a little freeing. VE I want you to know if you're fucking me right now just you wait | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I actually feel kinda warm and fuzzy that we fucking a-teamed this | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 04:50 Grackaroni wrote: Wait until people find out that the mafia are actually Slam and Rels. it's actually me and VE | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
You can't just like wound a honey badger and then be surprised when it rips your fucking face off anyway | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 04:53 Holyflare wrote: No, you do. You're the only one here that tried to talk to me instead of burying me under wrong incessant accusations. I may have fobbed you off and I'm sorry but it was annoyingly just as I was putting in an offer and going to lunch with my parents so I really couldn't have cared less but that's no reflection on you. You have appeared universally towny. If you are mafia that's a great trait and if you're town that's even better. I commend you as a player and a nice dude. This is all appealing to emotion but I don't want you to feel down. uh hello I tried to talk to you and you told me I don't know how to read that's okay though. I said some things that I guess you didn't like | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + I guess you'll find out how he feels soon enough | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 04:54 VisceraEyes wrote: You didn't try and soak any bullets in the night. YES BRINGING OUT THE BIG GUNS AT LAST I was sleeping on this wondering if anyone else would point it out why would a veteran troll their top town read during the night LOL | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 04:56 Fecalfeast wrote: Heck I think I love you | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 04:56 Pandain wrote: @hosts I want an actual inspired post this time This is too awesome I better be featured | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 04:58 Holyflare wrote: I just played as townie as I could given my circumstances irl and work? I did most of my cases and talking at night? No other way to play vet than playing towny. try actually rolling town next time | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
it's a 14p setup, this site uses 13p often. Unless it's 4 mafia vs a fuck ton of blues, on town side this is probably as close to all-vanilla as can be | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
what in the hell is this game just FYI that in about 36 hours I'm getting on a flight to America, I'll probably have internet but after Monday my timings are going to be very different. I'll probably only have 1-2 hours at most per day | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I don't actually get anything about how he played. and why was he so insistent I was scum | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
that's all that we're here for anyway | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 05:13 VisceraEyes wrote: Ya filters and a lot of weed tonight. Wish me luck boys. gl VE time for me to try to get some zzzs | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
We kill MZ, he has to be scum at this point. I’m still convinced VE & BC are town. Then towniest to scummiest: grack FF Pandain Slam Koshi MZ You all could be scum. Actually for all intents and purposes you all were scum this game regardless of actual alignment | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
He actually decently defended himself IMO. You haven’t done anything except complain once I listed you as absent | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 10:29 Alakaslam wrote: Oh dude you come through LAX? Let’s grab a bite m8 My flight in is direct to SFO, my flight out on Thursday night is through LAX | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Either I was wrong for the whole game about every single one of my scumreads or I went and undermined myself on MZ repeatedly vig MVP. I agree that we should all claim. I’m VT. Right now I’m still scum on MZ but I agree that I don’t like grack. However I don’t think the NK makes grack more suspicious, especially because the NK on N1 was used by mafia to try and make me more suspicious. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 06 2019 08:21 VisceraEyes wrote: All right it was me. Sry I'd have liked to clear someone. how is this possible we’re both scum in this game | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
##vote Grackaroni Post it now | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
You called me town half the game up till now and from reading your filter you’ve tried your hardest to be on the right side of every flip | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 06 2019 08:38 Pandain wrote: Am I the only one to see how ludicrous this is? I recommend people to go check out the conversation in question (only about a couple pages before the n1 post) for context. nw I see it. I thought it was horse shit that he tried to paint you as scummy for switching to Vivax when he himself tried to do that. and then saying there was no chance Vivax would die. So if there was no chance wtf was the purpose of his own vote? Make himself look better later? It’s like he’s projecting. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 06 2019 08:35 Grackaroni wrote: Yeah I was reading and then I ran out of time before end of night. I think that was pretty clear. Your shit reads super opportunistic to me. grack all you need to do to stop my tunnel on you is post every read you have in the game like you promised | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
VE & the rest of the shire I trust you to not let us get scoured | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 06 2019 08:56 Grackaroni wrote: I literally stopped half-way reading through your filter when Koshi/BC got shot. and you’re not willing to continue reading why? Also why do you need to complete a reread to post a list of reads? You don’t have reads already? You can just say “I haven’t been able to finish rereading but here are all of my reads now”. That doesn’t seem hard. If you’re town, you need to work with me here because otherwise you’re making it harder for me to read you. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
that wasn’t so hard, was it? Anyway see you all in 24 hours or so. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Waiting on my bag now, so not much time. I think the MZ null read on Koshi isn’t a huge deal. I myself was null on Koshi because I wanted to give time to see how his claim played out and whatnot, and only started scumreading after the HF flip. Even then it was just like, this guy is the scummiest of the people who are literally all afk, Meagan I don’t count really as afk cause he’s managed to post some stuff. Lots of stuff I don’t like but he posts nonetheless | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
btw for now I would prefer a 48 hour day because without it I won’t really be able to give much thought to my votes. I’m gonna get 1-2 hours max (thankfully on PST time, probably evenings if I’m not dead tired over the next 3-4 days) Last night I didn’t feel like FF nor Slam were scummy and today I’m fine with reading Pandain town. Lots of things Pandain has said over the game point to town Pandain with missing info, working to figure things out etc. Let me think about this more and reread, I’ll try to post thoughts when I have some spare time, probably later tn since I’m gonna try and make it to my hotel before 10 pm On BC being killed I think there’s nothing really to read into there from a reads perspective because there was realistically no other shot that makes sense. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Let’s see you talk this one out Meapak | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I haven’t slept for 28 hours fuck | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Here’s what I think. I as town am disappointed we killed HF on d2. He was right, an extra cycle would probably have been nice. But actually there were two really good outcomes possible from that day-my death and flip as town, or HF’s death and flip as town, presuming whoever lives is not clouded by the tunnel and can get over the mistake. This is actually why I was okay with killing myself near the beginning of d2, because I was like yeah well if Ryan has a dumb read on me and I’m going to die anyway might as well remove the biggest unknown that will haunt the rest of my time alive in the game if I’m not lynched. I 100% guarantee you that had I died then some cheeky fuck would be doing this exact same thing to HF instead because he would’ve lived in my stead. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I’m sorry Ryan and Meagan I mean rayn and meapak | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
In this game though mafia was backed into a corner by us making a town circle so I think it’s not alignment indicative for anyone | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Like I haven’t properly read everything today but his posts are the only ones that have made no imprint on my mind I’m probably really biased but I feel like even though hens been around, Meapak’s absence is always just that thing hanging around creepily in the background | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Bonus points if you can do it without rereading MZ’s filter If you can’t do that then maybe we should just kill the one person who has never had a real read all game | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
It’s like your homework for being less than useful till now | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Actually sorry me and VE are scum together, the hosts just fucked up and gave VE the wrong gun and gave me a VT pm but we figured out in the end we’re supposed to be scumbuddies This conclusion literally makes more sense than the rest of the game so far | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Night. I’m probably not getting a reread before flip though, and I’m in meetings around that time. Might have time between 6-9:30 a.m. PST, ask me questions if you have something weird and want my opinion on it | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 07 2019 16:33 VisceraEyes wrote: You keep coming back and not commenting on my posts. Are you ignoring me because you know I'm town? That would make me very sad. No, I actually literally just don’t have the time to read them now. I’ve gone airport -> work -> drop bags -> out -> back now to hotel with like no breaks in between. And I woke up something like 32 hours ago. Want my opinion on something specific? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I agree on principle that not voting to the point of risking modkill is townier on average | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 06 2019 08:33 Grackaroni wrote: We can’t believe a fake claim because town can just counter claim and win This post has been bothering me ever since I read it. Maybe I’m thinking too hard but what townie ever finds themselves thinking this deeply about this? And in a semi-open setup how often does that actually happened? Just cause Koshi got sort of burned by it it’s on his mind? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 07 2019 16:51 Pandain wrote: I don't actually get the post. He was saying that we don't have to worry about fake claims because town can just counter claim? I agree with this interpretation, because you were fear posting on the claim calls. Like grack must not be playing the same game because he commented earlier about rayn fake claiming veteran. And he, I assume, witnessed HF actually flip veteran. So what happened there? If that hypothetical had played out with both of them alive in this situation we get a counterclaim and lynch a townie? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Btw if FF is somehow scum here that is some amaze balls play. Read his progression on slam today, and how he’s posted about Pandain. If he’s faking that level of uncertainty I just don’t know, he deserves to win the game as scum I guess. Unless someone can tell me that yes, FF has done something like scum I’m happy to consider him town here. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Just don’t see a mafia doing a read progression like that in someone the rest of the game is mostly marking as unreadable | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
...??? If we get to #3 it’s slam FF Pandain probably at LYLO if we kill MZ -> slam -> grack it’s FF Pandain grack Likewise FF pandain MZ if MZ is last hmm. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I take back what I said about FF's read swap on slam, he actually didn't state a reason for it and I'm just stupid. My memory and jetlag are fucking with me. There are a few things I'm reading from Meapak that actually just don't make sense to me if they're from scum perspective. Hopefully he's around tomorrow. Also he consistently attacked FF today which is interesting to me as well. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 06 2019 17:11 Pandain wrote: I think FF is town. I think he's one of those players who is always hard to read so my read isn't that strong, but he's been contributing original and genuine points, not just making useless points, and seems to be playing different than his last two scum games. Pandain can you explain this post | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 05 2019 04:41 Fecalfeast wrote: So.... I think I'm on team HF which is annoying because I said I'm always down to lynch HF... Shenanigans onto MZ would be sick | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Like that seemed premature to me, just autoswap to Pandain as soon as MZ posted something pseudo decent. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
If we're going to make this decision it should be on the merits of what stands before us and not on momentum. And besides the more people get talking the better anyway, and FF hasn't done enough of that yet. FF would you be willing to kill yourself today so that we have an easier time deciding who to kill tomorrow? Like if you let us kill you now it's basically guaranteed to be MZ right? ##vote FecalFeast | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
From End of the World Party Mafia: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/542541-end-of-the-world-party-mafia?page=194#3873 From Classic Mafia https://tl.net/forum/mafia/542541-end-of-the-world-party-mafia?page=194#3873 noteworthy on classic is that he promised a post on someone else (TickTock?) and t hen never did it, so even as town he did something "scummy" | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 07 2019 23:21 Pandain wrote: You linked the same post. But re: end of the world mafia that's a just post defending himself. Not an actual anaylsis or substantial post or push .It's qualitatively different than what he does here and in other mafia games. Yeah, good point. I think the one for classic mafia was he was doing this thing where anyone who asked him a player to look at would get a post, so that one isn’t really the same either. He only posted that one anyway. I’d relink that but I’m phoneposting now and lazy | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 08 2019 00:00 VisceraEyes wrote: Bugs if it's over GG man. Thoroughly enjoyed this. pleasure was all mine to get carried. Even if we lose that shot goes down as the sickest vig shot I’ve ever seen + Show Spoiler + well different kind of sick but besides that one time in responsibility mafia, where everyone and their mother was a vig and I got shot for “spamming” now really gtfoh I’m still salty | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Pandain voted FF here: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/546592-uninspired-mafia-vote-thread?page=4#67 | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 08 2019 02:51 Grackaroni wrote: I still want to note that latest WBG post though. How come his meta reads are always defending people once they come under pressure rather than reasoning to suspect somebody: Look at how many times Pandain says the phrase "I think". Look at this long post FF posted. You’ll know when I defend someone, and that was not it. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
We should just RNG the lynch at this point | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 08 2019 09:28 VisceraEyes wrote: Bugs are you fucking me? nope I actually am rather annoyed I just didn’t complete the martyr on d2 because I’d rather have had HF deal with the hard work this game of 1. Finding scum among unreadables and 2. Fending off the constant nitpicking that happens whenever you are vocal and have a lot of posts to afford nitpicking The only person left alive I basically have never townread till now is Meapak. I don’t think I recall seeing a post that MZ made that I liked and honestly if he dies and flips town I think I will be truly broken | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 08 2019 14:50 Alakaslam wrote: Like what does one even do to prove innocence? I thought here the sole tubería was trying to look for scum? Not much, honestly. If you, for instance, have a doubt about someone you think is scum and you ask me about that person and explain why you are asking (it can be in the same post or a different one) that’s an easy way to show you’re trying to figure out the game. I townread Pandain really hard because Pandain has written things that indicate P is trying to figure out the game from a standpoint of limited information. (This applies to BC and VE as well, prior to VE being confirmed) If that happens enough times in ways that make sense, the hurdle for that person being scum is so high you can just basically ignore the possibility until you get (enough) evidence that is very difficult to ignore. Compare this to FF. There were times when I thought that FF was trying to figure out the game but not enough, and the messages were far more conflicting. FF was a much harder read and it was way easier to convince me that he’s scum. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
It’s between MZ, grack, and slam for me. It’s 4v1: If we kill MZ and that’s wrong, it becomes: Slam grack (me or Pandain) I don’t think Pandain is scum and lynching active players hasn’t really worked out this game. Also I’m not sure I want to consider the possibility (and this is selfish but idc) because it’s not likely we’d be alive together in endgame anyway. I don’t think slam is scum either tbh. However I’m open to convincing here. If you were in that situation, would you pick slam or grack? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 08 2019 04:27 Grackaroni wrote: I would be super ok with FF > MZ > Bugs This post bothered me the most Idk though, is grack faking not having full info here? Like there are surrounding posts that look okay to me. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Like I don’t really get the progression and it makes you look really scummy. I can’t get over how it seems you’re always on the right side of the lynch eventually in terms of opinions, but as far as I can tell you have little to no influence in the lynch beforehand. You don’t really participate in the discussions I’d expect you to participate in, and you kind of just shit on people’s posts from the periphery. Why did you accuse Pandain of trying to bus Vivax d1 when you also sheeped that same vote? idk. Just talk it out here, I’m rather confused because I don’t find clear takeaways about your reads. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Can you both tell me what you see that indicates MZ is town? I don’t get that. If you have time, try to meta read MZ, just like two games is fine. If activity is a factor use a recent game, he’s played recently, right? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Would you kill grack or MZ? In a (me/Pandain), you, grack world who would you kill? What about (me/Pandain) you, MZ? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 08 2019 21:28 Pandain wrote: And I really really don't like how certain Grack was on HF. I mean we know that bugs, BC, VE, and FF were all town and they thought there were serious concerns. Grack pops in during the HF lynch to say: But he later admits he hadn't even read the case on him: I agree on this, particularly as prior to that I didn’t have the impression that grack was closely following the game. If he were more present, I’d buy that he’d been reading and had come to some conclusion, but if that were the case he’d have tried to interact with us and slow down the momentum. Every time grack has some resistance to a lynch though that resistance doesn’t seem to be real/come in a townie fashion. I think townies would interject whenever necessary to prevent mislynches. I’m not getting that impression. There are lots of other factors at play here though. Like I’ve seen bad things in both grack’s and MZ’s play and one has to be town | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 08 2019 21:31 VisceraEyes wrote: Then VE lynches HF like a fucking tool. Man fuck this game I'm done. On meta alone how would you place MZ’s play this game? Btw I’m right there with you on this game, but don’t beat yourself up about anything, you did the most of anyone to keep town in this. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 08 2019 21:36 Pandain wrote: I thought about that but Grack actually does have lots of posts arguing why HF shouldn't be lynched. But it doesn't mean that much to me anyway, because as I know the other lynch he was pushing was on a townie (me). That came EoD though right? Similar to his anti push on FF | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Like if I were town in his situation and I didn’t agree with you, VE, I probably wouldn’t rule myself out as scum. Like, from that perspective I don’t think he sees a good reason to townread me because he’s aware to some degree that I can play an active scum game. Unlike slam, who I think doesn’t have enough in the way of opinion-conveying posts, my problem on grack is that it is sometimes hard to follow the logic and rationale for his thoughts. The actual results of those thoughts aren’t my terrible. I also recognize that a scum here would know they need to paint both myself and Pandain badly because it helps in endgame when only one of us is alive | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 08 2019 21:42 Pandain wrote: I don't know why I'm defending someone I want to get lynched. Nevermind bugs, you're 100% right and the reasoning is brilliant. Let's lynch Grack  I’m really like 50% on grack. Like I said above I see huge variance in his posts, like some I’d say look really townish and others just make me think no townie would ever post that | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Anyway, grack calling me scum is one of those things that can make sense from both alignments. Hell, him calling HF town and defending him EoD is potentially good from both alignments as well, just slightly more scummy to me given the lateness and the manner of it. I think the most suspicious thing about grack’s opinions is not the actual opinions themselves but the way they have changed is not clear. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 08 2019 21:48 Pandain wrote: Mafia is great at making townish points. It's because they actually know what is happening in the game and the "right" thing to do and say. You have to find the things that don't make sense and focus on them. I remember ver or Qatol or Incognoto saying one time that "90% of a posts by a scum are probably okay, it's the 10% slipups that you have to focus on" I don’t disagree here, it’s exactly why I thought HF was scum. Townies often have weird reasons for doing things and unless you see those reasons and they make sense it’s hard to come to a definitive conclusion. Neither MZ nor grack have helped elucidate reasons | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 08 2019 21:55 VisceraEyes wrote: Could the bolded just be a result of his inactivity and the times when he chooses to post? Like, townies are often not clear on their reasoning, this seems bad. Yeah, which is why I asked him directly why he changed his read on me. I wanted to know why he thought HF was town as well. I had a half troll half serious post when we were lynching HF where I just took a few posts from past games to see if grack could come up with good reasons for reading HF (and be right/as sure as he was here). I don’t feel like I’ve gotten much from grack about his opinions though. Like the Vivax Pandain thing is also still really weird. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 08 2019 21:58 VisceraEyes wrote: idk, my opinion is that you guys are arguing about lynching the townies and backburnering the mafia Slam and it's going to bite you in the ass. can you explain what is townie about MZ? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
My read on MZ hasn’t really changed except for by proxy. That’s always a red flag because then I can’t trace my reason for loss of confidence on that read | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 08 2019 22:02 VisceraEyes wrote: MZ has stated multiple times in the thread that he's in a vault and it causes inactivity - I'm not sure if it's consistent, but I tend to not give a shit. The posts I've seen have looked townie to me, I'm not basing that on any meta, they just look like they're coming from town. And I really HATE that you want me to make a towncase on someone the night before I'ma bout to DIE TO THE FUCKING MAFIA I’m sorry I’m making you do work lol. Inactivity-fine, not alignment indicative. With you there. What posts have been townie to you? Btw we’ve only gotten this far (besides due to your shot) because we made a town circle with BC. I think identifying townies correctly is more important than scum hunting in many cases. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I’ll probably not be around until daypost. Since you both read MZ as town I’m going to defer to you both and sheep that read. Let’s kill grack/slam and hope we caught the scum, cause I don’t have the time nor the will to spend more effort than that | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I’ll be gone till lunch timeish here in California, maybe take a longer break than that. If anyone has any questions just reply to me when I reenter the thread cause I can’t guarantee I’ll catch everything | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I’m not even kidding | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Man I should really leave but this actually got super interesting again LOL | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
He townread FF off one post lol | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
like let's see what happens when push comes to shove | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I’m back to MZ/grack and I give grack a better chance to not be scum | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I find it really hard to believe that scum Pandain here could fake that, he’s potentially agreeing with a read but disagreeing with reasons, and fairly good reasons at that. If he’s scum he has no incentive to do that, there are much easier paths and he could just echo VE’s sentiment and find reasons to help confirm that bias | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 09 2019 00:21 Grackaroni wrote: Wtf you just said that you suspected me for pushing you. I reread and thought more about it and given I flipped my read only after you flipped yours I thought there was more to that. I think your tone is extremely blunt in comparison to, for instance, MZ, and I think that’s a good sign you are town. I think the Vivax thing is a red herring and just you not noticing that calling Pandain for that makes very little sense from an outside perspective (but probably as a townie you just don’t care/have the awareness for that because it would be pointless for you to think about it making you look scummy) Anyway I’m more convinced both grack and slam are town here now and I’m down to just lynch MZ. He’s gonna have to come in here and make some good arguments and he’s conspicuously always absent. Even when he posts, he doesn’t actually help figure out the game. We all have good reasons for being afk and that’s not alignment indicative to me. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Someone pulls the short straw and has to decide between grack and Pandain at 2v1. At 2v1 I think flipping a coin is still the best bet | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Both VE and Pandain saying MZ is town (and even getting a bit indignant about it) -> fine I’m wrong let’s not lynch MZ VE flipped that read shortly after though. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Like I will be really shocked if MZ doesn’t flip scum here | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Myself and VE 100% town Pandain 95% town Slam 80% town Grack 60% town Meapak 5.3fuckthisgameifI’mwrong08% town | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 09 2019 03:56 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Lmao get ready to be shocked. So please lynch Pandain after me. Why is Pandain scummier than either grack or slam Like I actually don’t get it, can you show me some evidence that Pandain is really good at scum? The burden of proof here is on you, if you’re town and you just tell us lynch him cause he’s scum we’re just going to lynch you and then if I think your reasons suck then ignore what you said completely and just chalk it up to a bad read. Like rayn and HF died thinking I was scum, they were clearly wrong. Rayn listed myself, Vivax, Pandain, and FF and that is at least 2 out of 4 wrong. HF said you’re scum and I’m scum, and BC thought grack was scum. So why would we treat your opinion any more than players who we’ve already ignored? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 09 2019 09:14 Alakaslam wrote: *read the nested quote* We even shitposted at each other, man alive. Only VE would be someone I could call a dumbass in a game where he was the only player to result in a scum death, and have him take the high road back by highlighting exactly why I bothered to do so as the reason it was so bad The man who pointed out and described exactly what my experience is playing this by smoking a bowl and playing and describing the experience So Imagine being high as a kite and playing mafia, now you are in Slam’s world Btw WBG you gonna grab a bite with me in LA tomorrow? I know of a great spot off 3rd & Gladys + Show Spoiler + DO NOT go there. But srs m8 let us find fine food, I know some spots and could give you a lift to the airport. I want excuses to go to LA, Chiyu is there ;D. With a guy whose daily life is like being constantly high as a kite I think it’ll be really hard to meet up cause I’m arriving at LAX at 10 pm and leaving at 1 am, basically not enough time for me to exit and go back through security Thanks for the offer though, maybe next time if I’m back in CA on a personal trip! | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I’m not scum and I’m not going to bother spending time explaining myself when I’ve done more than enough of that all game. If you are town and have a garbage read on me at this point it’s not my responsibility to fix that. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
It’s ok homeslice I townread you and Pandain It’s MZ all the way Look how he doesn’t ever respond to anything | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 10 2019 00:33 Alakaslam wrote: Lol- while in the US, it says Japan Very subtle my good man lol totally unintentional on my part, I changed it cause I don’t live in the U.S. anymore :p | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 10 2019 00:40 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Because its way easier for me to flip town rather than fight 3 day cycles of thread sentiment and I frankly don't have the time to put in the activity you guys would require to change your minds. And if its not Pandain (and for arguments sake lets say its not me) then who do you have? None of you have been able to make convincing arguments for Grack or Slam. You and VE spent all last night cycle trying to pick between the two and y'all came to zero conclusions. The obvious and simplest explanation is that they're both town. I think you're town (and if you're not you really had a great scum game) I've been calling for Pandain's death since like D1 but don't let me convince you, let me flip do the talking. Sorry, I think you’re not reading nor understanding. I’m literally telling you that if you flip town at this very moment I’m going to ignore everything you’ve written here and tell everyone to lynch grack. You don’t have time to put in activity, fine, that’s clearly not what I’m asking for. In fact, you’re still alive despite your activity, and I for one don’t care how active you are (I even admonished HF for calling you a lurker because I didn’t think that label was correct). Just explain to the best of your ability 1. why Pandain is scum in this game and 2. What evidence you have from past games that Pandain is capable of playing like this as scum. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Literally my only doubts on grack are that he called out Pandain on Vivax for some really bad reasons that equally applied to himself, and at this stage of the game he’s picking fights with me and Pandain over stuff that has been explained 50 times already. Other than those two things the vast majority of things I’ve read from grack point to him being town. Anyway nothing MZ has said so far carries any weight. I’m happy to continue the day or shorten it, my vote is not moving from MZ. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 10 2019 02:29 Grackaroni wrote: Like it's easy for you to say Yay POE but MZ has looked scummy to me in literally every game I have played with him and you can look townie as both alignments. What do you want me to do with this information? I don’t really understand what you want me to about this. Look at it from my perspective. You’ve just told me that you cannot read or are not willing to read two of four players left in the game. How am I supposed to change that fact? My playstyle is not going to magically change and based on what you just said I’m sure you could find whatever reason you want to disbelieve Meapak being scum. If you’re town, come at me with something actually actionable and I’ll respond. Otherwise I find what you’re doing now to be a waste of time. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Anyway, Meapak is not town this game. He basically cannot be town, and I don’t think I’ve seen him make a single post this entire game where my read on him markedly improved. Here’s town Meapak, literally in the game before this: On April 08 2019 01:29 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: So yesterday I lazily townread rayn bc of this post: Which imo felt like a natural town reaction to what are obviously some nonstandard wincons at play in this game. However he follows up with this next post about not needing anyone who is town to die. When coupled with the posts grack quoted above, are you calling LS and Damdred scum? If you need them to die in order to fulfill whatever nonstandard wincon you have, but you also don't think you need anyone who is town to die, that means you think they're red. Then we have this reads progression which HF(?) already pointed out is very strange. The first post is a soft defense of pandain insinuating he's town bc he agreed with me and called TW town. So he goes from TRing Pandain for calling us town to calling TW and I scum two hours later. The logic just doesn't flow: Pandain calls TW & I town --> Pandain is town bc scum wouldn't give away mislynches (according to rayn) Rayn calls TW and I scum --> If we're scum his logic for the Pandain read no longer applies. It's inconsistent play, I'd like to hear what others think but I could get onboard a rayn lynch. Town Meapak tries to figure out the game by citing posts and asking specific questions; his intentions are clear and even if he doesn’t take a stance he makes it easy to understand why he is saying something, what is unclear, and what he wants to do. Compare that to literally any post in this game and you’ll see a stark difference. Meapak in this game rarely, if ever, explains reads, doesn’t seem to be earnestly trying to figure out the game (his questions are empty and often not backed up by any effort, and seem to change randomly) and his tone is far more conciliatory and indirect. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Also thanks for confirming I’m town | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Now is it Pandain? Is he trying to drag you into LYLO still or is he trying to kill you here so he wins himself vs slam vs grack or whatever? I have so many questions Meapak | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Bonus points for anyone who has the time to do that for a few games and report the results | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 10 2019 09:06 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Ahh bugs it's gonna be fun to watch you be wrong. Pandain I would still like an answer about what happens if you die instead of bugs. What advice would you give slam and grack? ok | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 10 2019 11:32 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Bugs lets getcha on record, you're assuming you're gonna die tonight but if you're alive you're gonna vote to lynch grack right? Why would I answer any of your questions if you haven’t answered a single one of mine? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
In fact why do you find MZ second towniest wtf | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
What the fuck is wrong with you people | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I wanted to post a picture but it’s too big for the TL imgur thing apparently, will post later | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Sorry for my ass play and sorry MZ I called you scum all game | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
![[image loading]](https://media1.tenor.com/images/179ead60d9ae33f4511be0e0c7ce7df5/tenor.gif?itemid=10388389) Hero performance | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 11 2019 05:19 Pandain wrote: Hahahahaha obsQT was calling Grack the best town player in the game. "Would be an absolute travesty if he got lynched" :D By the way, bugs was town to me not because of "activity" but because of his genuine obvious enthusiasm. That kind of stuff can be hard to fake. It was pretty obvious to me when he was pushing HF that he genuinely thought HF was scum. Combine that with stuff like his spreadsheet, and his consistent neverending interactions trying to figure out what people thought it was a strong townread for me. Glad we pulled this off. Really happy with my play this game, getting Koshi, Vivax, and Grack. I was only really wrong on FF. By the way, it is weird when someone is too right. For instance, when Grack said I was easily the best player in the game still alive, it felt that way to me but definitely shouldn't have felt obvious to other people. Then when he defended HF with an absolute certainty that has got to raise alarm bells. There is a huge difference between strongly thinking someone is town and thinking there's absolutely no way he's scum. Yeah I had that same idea on grack from the way he came in and shat on town for lynching HF. I think VE said it best though, I considered him a deadline player and MZ looked really awful to me. I think the biggest thing I would change is lynching FF, I think I should have trusted my read more there. I’d lynch HF again every time in that situation. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 11 2019 05:25 BloodyC0bbler wrote: What was the reasoning behind shooting me grack? It’s in the QT I think BTW it was nice to play town with you for once haha I think I’ve played scum with you and as scum against you but never town & town | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 11 2019 05:33 Pandain wrote: Bugs you made me feel like an idiot for wanting to push away from MZ. If he was scum I was just going to hide in a cave and probably never play another game. My bad! I wasn’t sure myself and I was just resigned to it because either way I was sure it was between MZ and grack and i would never lynch you or slam MZ basically never answered any of my questions so I just wanted to kill him | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
And thank you Artanis and LS for hosting | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 11 2019 06:45 VisceraEyes wrote: omg we won? Yes dude! I'm gonna go ahead and call that one an ATMOSPHERIC victory by town. Lots of townies able to clear each other long enough that the remaining mafia had to expend too much effort to blend in. Well done boys. Lots more games just like this one in the future, minus the half the game that just didn't play. BC, I want to echo that sentiment. I'm glad I was able to curb my paranoia long enough to work with you guys this game. Those moments are as precious as they are rare. Bugs, I'm so glad it wasn't you. likewise, 13/10 would ignore both rayn and HF again | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
| ||
