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On March 06 2019 22:01 Vivax wrote:
Calm your tits acro.
We'll find out who the mafia was spreading wildfires once HF is dead and red.
Why have you suddenly contradicted your own read today by the way? You never explained other than everyone else was voting me.
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On March 06 2019 22:01 Tubesock wrote:
I’d scum the shit out if HF if he platformed killing Palmar, cased and scumread him, and didn’t kill him. Maybe MAYBE not if he killed scum instead. I think I’d still think he could be scum for killing a lurker mafia.
To me the ONLY plausible reason to scumread HF is because he said he tried to change it. And even that is 50/50 really. Everything else he’s done has been good for town.
People say he has a big ego, you think he thought Palmar was scum and wouldn’t shoot for epic plays???
You voters should be arguing that HF didn’t really believe his Palmar case.
But you can’t cause he did.
I knew you were town all along.
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On March 06 2019 22:32 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 22:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2019 22:01 Tubesock wrote:
I’d scum the shit out if HF if he platformed killing Palmar, cased and scumread him, and didn’t kill him. Maybe MAYBE not if he killed scum instead. I think I’d still think he could be scum for killing a lurker mafia.
To me the ONLY plausible reason to scumread HF is because he said he tried to change it. And even that is 50/50 really. Everything else he’s done has been good for town.
People say he has a big ego, you think he thought Palmar was scum and wouldn’t shoot for epic plays???
You voters should be arguing that HF didn’t really believe his Palmar case.
But you can’t cause he did. This! This is the thing that makes all "HF is scum" believers either retards or mafia. You're scumming me, but I literally did that. Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 20:50 Acrofales wrote:
I know you're new here, but what the hell is this? Doing "specifically pro-mafia stuff" is stuff town doesn't do. You say it's a bad read, but him killing Palmar was almost entirely off his ego being too big for Palmar to beat him in a mayor election. There isn't even any townie reasoning there, it is entirely based on "goal 1": the town isn't big enough for the two of them, so he kills Palmar. It wasn't a "bad read". It wasn't a read at all. I don't have time right now to collect all my notes in one place, but this is clearly important. So here is his Palmar case: Show nested quote +On March 04 2019 18:14 Holyflare wrote:On March 04 2019 18:09 Jockmcplop wrote:On March 04 2019 18:07 Holyflare wrote:
My mayor lynch will be on Palmar by the way. I can get behind this, but what's the reasoning behind it? Only talks about town reads, has no suspicions on pretty much anything in the game. Perpetuates nonsense policy lynch after he likes Sentinel's effort when he hasn't even read it. His last post about acro is entirely a wall of hedge whereby he looks like he's falsely weighing up Acro's alignment but really it's wishy washy and says nothing. His iamp read looks completely bs too for similar reasons to his acro read. Iamp is town but wait here's reasons I can say he's not town later in the game. None of this is concrete town palmar stuff. There's also the fact we can acknowledge that mafia were pushing for his candidacy if he does flip mafia  This was on sunday evening, when he was mostly right that Palmar hadn't played much yet. But they were both around all of monday, and nothing happened except HF's ego got more hurt: Show nested quote +On March 05 2019 06:38 Holyflare wrote:
Palmar (11): Palmar, Ticktock, Meapak_Zipphh, Acrofales, Vivax, WaveofShadow, Grackaroni, Conversion, Alakaslam, Trfel, Blazinghand
How has this guy got 11 people voting for him when his sole policy is only to kill Sentinel who doesn't even look bad?
Almost the entirety, if not THE entirety of this wagon is the sketchiest people in this game. It's even growing! And this one is blatantly false: Show nested quote +On March 05 2019 07:18 Holyflare wrote:
Especially now that more people are actually voting him when he has said nothing else of value. Like... I did the exercise at the time, and tried to read Palmar as scum. I got through the weekend thinking he might be right, because Palmar posted a policy lynch and a bunch of town reads. I did find he was throwing off townie vibes, but figured it might have been him throwing me a green read to bedazzle me. But all of monday (the above post is made an hour and a bit before deadline), Palmar was deep diving people, engaging people, and hunting scum. Classifying that as "nothing of value" is nonsense. So no, HF really didn't have much of a case on Palmar at all. Definitely not one that shows conviction, and certainly not one where he is trying to actually figure out if he's right or not. He parked the case on Sunday evening and didn't bother analysing anything Palmar did all of Monday. Now I get that HF is apparently an egomaniac, but he is completely uncritical of his read. He doesn't return to it, just reiterates any time anybody asks that he will kill Palmar. Lamp and Koshi come to their own conclusions of Palmar. They were obviously wrong, but you can see their thought process and you can see Koshi engage with Palmar about it. Not so at all with HF.
This is pretty misconstrued. Who did Palmar want to kill other than sentinel? Who the fuck knows until right near deadline where he finally posted something and also spammed wiggles. This also isn't all I posted in the slightest:
On March 05 2019 10:03 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2019 09:53 marvellosity wrote:
HF mate, why did you actually kill Palmar?
I don't want a quote from your posts, just the actual reason(s) ? I thought his early posts were colossally bad. I didn't like how he kept coming up with reasons to read people one way or another that on closer inspection turned out to be massively false and then he'd just brush it away. This happened with: Rayn - where he came up with some factually incorrect meta and falsehoods in this game that got disproved and then called out by Rayn himself and Palmar just hand waved it away LS read - where he tried to further his incorrect point that he must be right on LS because rsoul and damdred agreed with him (and also therefore damdred must be town because they agreed on LS(????????????????)). It turned out neither of them really agreed anymore but he didn't update that read on damdred At the time I submitted the vote on palmar he had only 2 real attempts at scum reads and they turned out to be hedges instead on both acro and iamp so he really had no scum reads. He only started trying to scum read people after I called him out on it. Outside of Palmar himself there was an overwhelming wagon building on Palmar's mayorship out of nowhere. He had only stated that he was going to lynch sentinel and then after Sentinel posted not bad walls of text he never updated that read. His wagon kept growing but with nobody really casting doubt on Sentinel further (other than like 1-2 people) so Palmar seemed to be in direct contention with my mayor votes for absolutely no reason whatsoever (I even had sentinel as my lynch policy for a long while). I ultimately ended up still lynching Palmar: A) because my vote was locked in and I never really got to change it to BH when your slot and vivax saved him B) I would much rather have fun with a lynch on a really polarising player to lynch instead of some shitty policy lynch anyway that may or may not have actually turned into a scum BH. We now have about 100 different reads on this lynch and we have the flip to boot. It wouldn't have been the same if Palmar didn't flip either. I was tempted to vote some non-entity but that's really really fucking boring and wouldn't be fun.
Palmar - (wishy washy Iamp post, wishy washy Acro post. I call him out that he has no solid scum reads and he has to hunker down and scum read someone. Defaults to Sentinel still, can't see any motivation from sentinel other than scum motivation. He then makes some bs analysis of the wagons acknowledging that his wagon is the most scum motivated one to follow but doesn't use that to reevaluate anything and doesn't question which of the people on the wagon are scummy. He defends Pandain who has literally posted nothing but coaching. This whole post to town read Damdred is so unnecessarily OTT it's ridiculous https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/542541-end-of-the-world-party-mafia?page=88#1750Makes a movement for Rayn to be mafia based on Rayn's activity which hasn't meant anything since a long time now. Doesn't even get what Rayn said correct. Doesn't even know what Damdred/Rsoul posted about LS. Not interested in figuring out game, instead tried to use others to prove his point. Wants to vote Conversion because Conversion was lazy but attributes it to mafia motivation instead of just someone being lazy. That's the crux of his entire read. Fakes some floundering on it when Conversion posts some irl excuse, seems pretty forced. After nothing in between Conversion drops off max scum vote list and is replaced with lurker and policy lynch. Not great at all.)
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On March 06 2019 22:38 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2019 09:00 Dandel Ion wrote:
Day One final Vote Count
Mayor
Holyflare (16): Tubesock, Holyflare, rsoultin, Ace, Mr. Wiggles, Jockmcplop, Mocsta, [UoN]Sentinel, Pandain, sicklucker, raynpelikoneet, Fecalfeast, iamperfection, Damdred, ExO_, Trfel
Palmar (12): Palmar, Ticktock, Meapak_Zipphh, WaveofShadow, Grackaroni, Conversion, Alakaslam, LightningStrike, Vivax, BloodyC0bbler, Acrofales, Blazinghand
iamperfection (4): darthfoley, Tumblewood, Koshi, Oatsmaster
Chezinu (1):Chezinu
Onegu (1): Onegu
rsoultin (1): Rels
Not Voting (0):
Lynch
Trfel (11): Tubesock, sicklucker, [UoN]Sentinel, Koshi, Mr. Wiggles, Tumblewood, Fecalfeast, Jockmcplop, Acrofales, Vivax, Conversion
Blazinghand (10): Holyflare, Grackaroni, iamperfection, Oatsmaster, WaveOfShadow, raynpelikoneet, Trfel, rsoultin, ExO_, LightningStrike
Conversion (3): Mocsta, Alakaslam, darthfoley
Acrofales (2): Damdred, Tictock
iamperfection (2): BloodyC0bbler, Blazinghand
Koshi (1): Ace
Fecalfeast (1): Pandain
Grackaroni (1): Meapak_Ziphh
LightningStrike (1): Rels
[UoN]Sentinel (1): Chezinu
rsoultin (1): Onegu
Mr. Wiggles (1): Palmar
Not Voting (0):
Holyflare is the Mayor and Trfel is lynched.
Please let us know if you notice any mistakes. The deadline is Tuesday, Mar 05 12:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in . Show nested quote +On March 04 2019 22:36 Mocsta wrote:On March 04 2019 20:31 Palmar wrote:I don't like Conversion's filter. I especially hate this post: On March 04 2019 08:13 Conversion wrote:
I’m back sort of. I have interviews all week so wont play much today.
did MZ ever explain his reasoning on why he put Oats low on his scum list for scumreading me, the same as him, but excluded me from his to lynch list? also why he agreed with Oats making a large post of bullshit voted and saying “not town?”
if not I’d like to lynch him We all know he could've checked the answer in like 3 mouse clicks. He's not posting because he wants to know whether this happened. He's posting because he's very gently asking other people to allow him to have the position that he's considering having. It's a really, really scummy post. hmmm took me a few reads to understand this, and yes I get it now. If the read is strong, he would check it himself an ask for "have the position" as eloquently said. If the read is weak, he should sheep,which he does not allude to in the slightest. Even considering he is busy this is very lazy for town play. Good pick up and Im happy to vote ##Vote:;Conversion Why did you vote for Palmar to be mayor lynched again? You're literally sheeping him on his Conversion case while voting for him to be killed by HF.
Are you fucking serious LOL
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On March 06 2019 23:39 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 23:01 Holyflare wrote:On March 06 2019 22:32 Acrofales wrote:On March 06 2019 22:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2019 22:01 Tubesock wrote:
I’d scum the shit out if HF if he platformed killing Palmar, cased and scumread him, and didn’t kill him. Maybe MAYBE not if he killed scum instead. I think I’d still think he could be scum for killing a lurker mafia.
To me the ONLY plausible reason to scumread HF is because he said he tried to change it. And even that is 50/50 really. Everything else he’s done has been good for town.
People say he has a big ego, you think he thought Palmar was scum and wouldn’t shoot for epic plays???
You voters should be arguing that HF didn’t really believe his Palmar case.
But you can’t cause he did. This! This is the thing that makes all "HF is scum" believers either retards or mafia. You're scumming me, but I literally did that. On March 06 2019 20:50 Acrofales wrote:
I know you're new here, but what the hell is this? Doing "specifically pro-mafia stuff" is stuff town doesn't do. You say it's a bad read, but him killing Palmar was almost entirely off his ego being too big for Palmar to beat him in a mayor election. There isn't even any townie reasoning there, it is entirely based on "goal 1": the town isn't big enough for the two of them, so he kills Palmar. It wasn't a "bad read". It wasn't a read at all. I don't have time right now to collect all my notes in one place, but this is clearly important. So here is his Palmar case: On March 04 2019 18:14 Holyflare wrote:On March 04 2019 18:09 Jockmcplop wrote:On March 04 2019 18:07 Holyflare wrote:
My mayor lynch will be on Palmar by the way. I can get behind this, but what's the reasoning behind it? Only talks about town reads, has no suspicions on pretty much anything in the game. Perpetuates nonsense policy lynch after he likes Sentinel's effort when he hasn't even read it. His last post about acro is entirely a wall of hedge whereby he looks like he's falsely weighing up Acro's alignment but really it's wishy washy and says nothing. His iamp read looks completely bs too for similar reasons to his acro read. Iamp is town but wait here's reasons I can say he's not town later in the game. None of this is concrete town palmar stuff. There's also the fact we can acknowledge that mafia were pushing for his candidacy if he does flip mafia This was on sunday evening, when he was mostly right that Palmar hadn't played much yet. But they were both around all of monday, and nothing happened except HF's ego got more hurt: On March 05 2019 06:38 Holyflare wrote:
Palmar (11): Palmar, Ticktock, Meapak_Zipphh, Acrofales, Vivax, WaveofShadow, Grackaroni, Conversion, Alakaslam, Trfel, Blazinghand
How has this guy got 11 people voting for him when his sole policy is only to kill Sentinel who doesn't even look bad?
Almost the entirety, if not THE entirety of this wagon is the sketchiest people in this game. It's even growing! And this one is blatantly false: On March 05 2019 07:18 Holyflare wrote:
Especially now that more people are actually voting him when he has said nothing else of value. Like... I did the exercise at the time, and tried to read Palmar as scum. I got through the weekend thinking he might be right, because Palmar posted a policy lynch and a bunch of town reads. I did find he was throwing off townie vibes, but figured it might have been him throwing me a green read to bedazzle me. But all of monday (the above post is made an hour and a bit before deadline), Palmar was deep diving people, engaging people, and hunting scum. Classifying that as "nothing of value" is nonsense. So no, HF really didn't have much of a case on Palmar at all. Definitely not one that shows conviction, and certainly not one where he is trying to actually figure out if he's right or not. He parked the case on Sunday evening and didn't bother analysing anything Palmar did all of Monday. Now I get that HF is apparently an egomaniac, but he is completely uncritical of his read. He doesn't return to it, just reiterates any time anybody asks that he will kill Palmar. Lamp and Koshi come to their own conclusions of Palmar. They were obviously wrong, but you can see their thought process and you can see Koshi engage with Palmar about it. Not so at all with HF. This is pretty misconstrued. Who did Palmar want to kill other than sentinel? Who the fuck knows until right near deadline where he finally posted something and also spammed wiggles. This also isn't all I posted in the slightest: On March 05 2019 10:03 Holyflare wrote:On March 05 2019 09:53 marvellosity wrote:
HF mate, why did you actually kill Palmar?
I don't want a quote from your posts, just the actual reason(s) ? I thought his early posts were colossally bad. I didn't like how he kept coming up with reasons to read people one way or another that on closer inspection turned out to be massively false and then he'd just brush it away. This happened with: Rayn - where he came up with some factually incorrect meta and falsehoods in this game that got disproved and then called out by Rayn himself and Palmar just hand waved it away LS read - where he tried to further his incorrect point that he must be right on LS because rsoul and damdred agreed with him (and also therefore damdred must be town because they agreed on LS(????????????????)). It turned out neither of them really agreed anymore but he didn't update that read on damdred At the time I submitted the vote on palmar he had only 2 real attempts at scum reads and they turned out to be hedges instead on both acro and iamp so he really had no scum reads. He only started trying to scum read people after I called him out on it. Outside of Palmar himself there was an overwhelming wagon building on Palmar's mayorship out of nowhere. He had only stated that he was going to lynch sentinel and then after Sentinel posted not bad walls of text he never updated that read. His wagon kept growing but with nobody really casting doubt on Sentinel further (other than like 1-2 people) so Palmar seemed to be in direct contention with my mayor votes for absolutely no reason whatsoever (I even had sentinel as my lynch policy for a long while). I ultimately ended up still lynching Palmar: A) because my vote was locked in and I never really got to change it to BH when your slot and vivax saved him B) I would much rather have fun with a lynch on a really polarising player to lynch instead of some shitty policy lynch anyway that may or may not have actually turned into a scum BH. We now have about 100 different reads on this lynch and we have the flip to boot. It wouldn't have been the same if Palmar didn't flip either. I was tempted to vote some non-entity but that's really really fucking boring and wouldn't be fun. Palmar - (wishy washy Iamp post, wishy washy Acro post. I call him out that he has no solid scum reads and he has to hunker down and scum read someone. Defaults to Sentinel still, can't see any motivation from sentinel other than scum motivation. He then makes some bs analysis of the wagons acknowledging that his wagon is the most scum motivated one to follow but doesn't use that to reevaluate anything and doesn't question which of the people on the wagon are scummy. He defends Pandain who has literally posted nothing but coaching. This whole post to town read Damdred is so unnecessarily OTT it's ridiculous https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/542541-end-of-the-world-party-mafia?page=88#1750Makes a movement for Rayn to be mafia based on Rayn's activity which hasn't meant anything since a long time now. Doesn't even get what Rayn said correct. Doesn't even know what Damdred/Rsoul posted about LS. Not interested in figuring out game, instead tried to use others to prove his point. Wants to vote Conversion because Conversion was lazy but attributes it to mafia motivation instead of just someone being lazy. That's the crux of his entire read. Fakes some floundering on it when Conversion posts some irl excuse, seems pretty forced. After nothing in between Conversion drops off max scum vote list and is replaced with lurker and policy lynch. Not great at all.) The former is literally after the lynch happened. The latter is a list post half an hour before the lynch when you've been harping on about Palmar all day. Both are a posteriori justifications rather than actually engaging him. And in particular the latter about when Palmar started scumhunting is quite blatantly false. But we can argue about that until we're both blue in the face, because you'll probably just "no true Scotsman" his scumhunting, just like rayn just did.
No, it is not false. I called Palmar out with the original paragraph where I said I wanted to lynch him, with which you even explicitly said you agreed with. Then Palmar started scum hunting and I thought everything he said was scummy.
Also how have I not interacted with Palmar? Almost everything in my list post case is because I interacted with Palmar to make him elaborate on those mistakes. Unless now you're adding another reason that me being on holiday and not formulating everything into one central place until I actually had time to on a PC is scummy?
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On March 06 2019 23:47 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 23:39 Acrofales wrote:On March 06 2019 23:01 Holyflare wrote:On March 06 2019 22:32 Acrofales wrote:On March 06 2019 22:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2019 22:01 Tubesock wrote:
I’d scum the shit out if HF if he platformed killing Palmar, cased and scumread him, and didn’t kill him. Maybe MAYBE not if he killed scum instead. I think I’d still think he could be scum for killing a lurker mafia.
To me the ONLY plausible reason to scumread HF is because he said he tried to change it. And even that is 50/50 really. Everything else he’s done has been good for town.
People say he has a big ego, you think he thought Palmar was scum and wouldn’t shoot for epic plays???
You voters should be arguing that HF didn’t really believe his Palmar case.
But you can’t cause he did. This! This is the thing that makes all "HF is scum" believers either retards or mafia. You're scumming me, but I literally did that. On March 06 2019 20:50 Acrofales wrote:
I know you're new here, but what the hell is this? Doing "specifically pro-mafia stuff" is stuff town doesn't do. You say it's a bad read, but him killing Palmar was almost entirely off his ego being too big for Palmar to beat him in a mayor election. There isn't even any townie reasoning there, it is entirely based on "goal 1": the town isn't big enough for the two of them, so he kills Palmar. It wasn't a "bad read". It wasn't a read at all. I don't have time right now to collect all my notes in one place, but this is clearly important. So here is his Palmar case: On March 04 2019 18:14 Holyflare wrote:On March 04 2019 18:09 Jockmcplop wrote:On March 04 2019 18:07 Holyflare wrote:
My mayor lynch will be on Palmar by the way. I can get behind this, but what's the reasoning behind it? Only talks about town reads, has no suspicions on pretty much anything in the game. Perpetuates nonsense policy lynch after he likes Sentinel's effort when he hasn't even read it. His last post about acro is entirely a wall of hedge whereby he looks like he's falsely weighing up Acro's alignment but really it's wishy washy and says nothing. His iamp read looks completely bs too for similar reasons to his acro read. Iamp is town but wait here's reasons I can say he's not town later in the game. None of this is concrete town palmar stuff. There's also the fact we can acknowledge that mafia were pushing for his candidacy if he does flip mafia This was on sunday evening, when he was mostly right that Palmar hadn't played much yet. But they were both around all of monday, and nothing happened except HF's ego got more hurt: On March 05 2019 06:38 Holyflare wrote:
Palmar (11): Palmar, Ticktock, Meapak_Zipphh, Acrofales, Vivax, WaveofShadow, Grackaroni, Conversion, Alakaslam, Trfel, Blazinghand
How has this guy got 11 people voting for him when his sole policy is only to kill Sentinel who doesn't even look bad?
Almost the entirety, if not THE entirety of this wagon is the sketchiest people in this game. It's even growing! And this one is blatantly false: On March 05 2019 07:18 Holyflare wrote:
Especially now that more people are actually voting him when he has said nothing else of value. Like... I did the exercise at the time, and tried to read Palmar as scum. I got through the weekend thinking he might be right, because Palmar posted a policy lynch and a bunch of town reads. I did find he was throwing off townie vibes, but figured it might have been him throwing me a green read to bedazzle me. But all of monday (the above post is made an hour and a bit before deadline), Palmar was deep diving people, engaging people, and hunting scum. Classifying that as "nothing of value" is nonsense. So no, HF really didn't have much of a case on Palmar at all. Definitely not one that shows conviction, and certainly not one where he is trying to actually figure out if he's right or not. He parked the case on Sunday evening and didn't bother analysing anything Palmar did all of Monday. Now I get that HF is apparently an egomaniac, but he is completely uncritical of his read. He doesn't return to it, just reiterates any time anybody asks that he will kill Palmar. Lamp and Koshi come to their own conclusions of Palmar. They were obviously wrong, but you can see their thought process and you can see Koshi engage with Palmar about it. Not so at all with HF. This is pretty misconstrued. Who did Palmar want to kill other than sentinel? Who the fuck knows until right near deadline where he finally posted something and also spammed wiggles. This also isn't all I posted in the slightest: On March 05 2019 10:03 Holyflare wrote:On March 05 2019 09:53 marvellosity wrote:
HF mate, why did you actually kill Palmar?
I don't want a quote from your posts, just the actual reason(s) ? I thought his early posts were colossally bad. I didn't like how he kept coming up with reasons to read people one way or another that on closer inspection turned out to be massively false and then he'd just brush it away. This happened with: Rayn - where he came up with some factually incorrect meta and falsehoods in this game that got disproved and then called out by Rayn himself and Palmar just hand waved it away LS read - where he tried to further his incorrect point that he must be right on LS because rsoul and damdred agreed with him (and also therefore damdred must be town because they agreed on LS(????????????????)). It turned out neither of them really agreed anymore but he didn't update that read on damdred At the time I submitted the vote on palmar he had only 2 real attempts at scum reads and they turned out to be hedges instead on both acro and iamp so he really had no scum reads. He only started trying to scum read people after I called him out on it. Outside of Palmar himself there was an overwhelming wagon building on Palmar's mayorship out of nowhere. He had only stated that he was going to lynch sentinel and then after Sentinel posted not bad walls of text he never updated that read. His wagon kept growing but with nobody really casting doubt on Sentinel further (other than like 1-2 people) so Palmar seemed to be in direct contention with my mayor votes for absolutely no reason whatsoever (I even had sentinel as my lynch policy for a long while). I ultimately ended up still lynching Palmar: A) because my vote was locked in and I never really got to change it to BH when your slot and vivax saved him B) I would much rather have fun with a lynch on a really polarising player to lynch instead of some shitty policy lynch anyway that may or may not have actually turned into a scum BH. We now have about 100 different reads on this lynch and we have the flip to boot. It wouldn't have been the same if Palmar didn't flip either. I was tempted to vote some non-entity but that's really really fucking boring and wouldn't be fun. Palmar - (wishy washy Iamp post, wishy washy Acro post. I call him out that he has no solid scum reads and he has to hunker down and scum read someone. Defaults to Sentinel still, can't see any motivation from sentinel other than scum motivation. He then makes some bs analysis of the wagons acknowledging that his wagon is the most scum motivated one to follow but doesn't use that to reevaluate anything and doesn't question which of the people on the wagon are scummy. He defends Pandain who has literally posted nothing but coaching. This whole post to town read Damdred is so unnecessarily OTT it's ridiculous https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/542541-end-of-the-world-party-mafia?page=88#1750Makes a movement for Rayn to be mafia based on Rayn's activity which hasn't meant anything since a long time now. Doesn't even get what Rayn said correct. Doesn't even know what Damdred/Rsoul posted about LS. Not interested in figuring out game, instead tried to use others to prove his point. Wants to vote Conversion because Conversion was lazy but attributes it to mafia motivation instead of just someone being lazy. That's the crux of his entire read. Fakes some floundering on it when Conversion posts some irl excuse, seems pretty forced. After nothing in between Conversion drops off max scum vote list and is replaced with lurker and policy lynch. Not great at all.) The former is literally after the lynch happened. The latter is a list post half an hour before the lynch when you've been harping on about Palmar all day. Both are a posteriori justifications rather than actually engaging him. And in particular the latter about when Palmar started scumhunting is quite blatantly false. But we can argue about that until we're both blue in the face, because you'll probably just "no true Scotsman" his scumhunting, just like rayn just did. No, it is not false. I called Palmar out with the original paragraph where I said I wanted to lynch him, with which you even explicitly said you agreed with. Then Palmar started scum hunting and I thought everything he said was scummy. Also how have I not interacted with Palmar? Almost everything in my list post case is because I interacted with Palmar to make him elaborate on those mistakes. Unless now you're adding another reason that me being on holiday and not formulating everything into one central place until I actually had time to on a PC is scummy?
Furthermore, none of this makes me mafia in the slightest. I said I was lynching palmar, I outlined my reasons at multiple points and made a case in my reads list, I was pretty sure on the read and he died.
You're calling me mafia for being wrong rather than mafia who made up something to lynch Palmar.
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On March 06 2019 23:57 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 23:54 Holyflare wrote:On March 06 2019 23:47 Holyflare wrote:On March 06 2019 23:39 Acrofales wrote:On March 06 2019 23:01 Holyflare wrote:On March 06 2019 22:32 Acrofales wrote:On March 06 2019 22:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2019 22:01 Tubesock wrote:
I’d scum the shit out if HF if he platformed killing Palmar, cased and scumread him, and didn’t kill him. Maybe MAYBE not if he killed scum instead. I think I’d still think he could be scum for killing a lurker mafia.
To me the ONLY plausible reason to scumread HF is because he said he tried to change it. And even that is 50/50 really. Everything else he’s done has been good for town.
People say he has a big ego, you think he thought Palmar was scum and wouldn’t shoot for epic plays???
You voters should be arguing that HF didn’t really believe his Palmar case.
But you can’t cause he did. This! This is the thing that makes all "HF is scum" believers either retards or mafia. You're scumming me, but I literally did that. On March 06 2019 20:50 Acrofales wrote:
I know you're new here, but what the hell is this? Doing "specifically pro-mafia stuff" is stuff town doesn't do. You say it's a bad read, but him killing Palmar was almost entirely off his ego being too big for Palmar to beat him in a mayor election. There isn't even any townie reasoning there, it is entirely based on "goal 1": the town isn't big enough for the two of them, so he kills Palmar. It wasn't a "bad read". It wasn't a read at all. I don't have time right now to collect all my notes in one place, but this is clearly important. So here is his Palmar case: On March 04 2019 18:14 Holyflare wrote:On March 04 2019 18:09 Jockmcplop wrote:On March 04 2019 18:07 Holyflare wrote:
My mayor lynch will be on Palmar by the way. I can get behind this, but what's the reasoning behind it? Only talks about town reads, has no suspicions on pretty much anything in the game. Perpetuates nonsense policy lynch after he likes Sentinel's effort when he hasn't even read it. His last post about acro is entirely a wall of hedge whereby he looks like he's falsely weighing up Acro's alignment but really it's wishy washy and says nothing. His iamp read looks completely bs too for similar reasons to his acro read. Iamp is town but wait here's reasons I can say he's not town later in the game. None of this is concrete town palmar stuff. There's also the fact we can acknowledge that mafia were pushing for his candidacy if he does flip mafia This was on sunday evening, when he was mostly right that Palmar hadn't played much yet. But they were both around all of monday, and nothing happened except HF's ego got more hurt: On March 05 2019 06:38 Holyflare wrote:
Palmar (11): Palmar, Ticktock, Meapak_Zipphh, Acrofales, Vivax, WaveofShadow, Grackaroni, Conversion, Alakaslam, Trfel, Blazinghand
How has this guy got 11 people voting for him when his sole policy is only to kill Sentinel who doesn't even look bad?
Almost the entirety, if not THE entirety of this wagon is the sketchiest people in this game. It's even growing! And this one is blatantly false: On March 05 2019 07:18 Holyflare wrote:
Especially now that more people are actually voting him when he has said nothing else of value. Like... I did the exercise at the time, and tried to read Palmar as scum. I got through the weekend thinking he might be right, because Palmar posted a policy lynch and a bunch of town reads. I did find he was throwing off townie vibes, but figured it might have been him throwing me a green read to bedazzle me. But all of monday (the above post is made an hour and a bit before deadline), Palmar was deep diving people, engaging people, and hunting scum. Classifying that as "nothing of value" is nonsense. So no, HF really didn't have much of a case on Palmar at all. Definitely not one that shows conviction, and certainly not one where he is trying to actually figure out if he's right or not. He parked the case on Sunday evening and didn't bother analysing anything Palmar did all of Monday. Now I get that HF is apparently an egomaniac, but he is completely uncritical of his read. He doesn't return to it, just reiterates any time anybody asks that he will kill Palmar. Lamp and Koshi come to their own conclusions of Palmar. They were obviously wrong, but you can see their thought process and you can see Koshi engage with Palmar about it. Not so at all with HF. This is pretty misconstrued. Who did Palmar want to kill other than sentinel? Who the fuck knows until right near deadline where he finally posted something and also spammed wiggles. This also isn't all I posted in the slightest: On March 05 2019 10:03 Holyflare wrote:On March 05 2019 09:53 marvellosity wrote:
HF mate, why did you actually kill Palmar?
I don't want a quote from your posts, just the actual reason(s) ? I thought his early posts were colossally bad. I didn't like how he kept coming up with reasons to read people one way or another that on closer inspection turned out to be massively false and then he'd just brush it away. This happened with: Rayn - where he came up with some factually incorrect meta and falsehoods in this game that got disproved and then called out by Rayn himself and Palmar just hand waved it away LS read - where he tried to further his incorrect point that he must be right on LS because rsoul and damdred agreed with him (and also therefore damdred must be town because they agreed on LS(????????????????)). It turned out neither of them really agreed anymore but he didn't update that read on damdred At the time I submitted the vote on palmar he had only 2 real attempts at scum reads and they turned out to be hedges instead on both acro and iamp so he really had no scum reads. He only started trying to scum read people after I called him out on it. Outside of Palmar himself there was an overwhelming wagon building on Palmar's mayorship out of nowhere. He had only stated that he was going to lynch sentinel and then after Sentinel posted not bad walls of text he never updated that read. His wagon kept growing but with nobody really casting doubt on Sentinel further (other than like 1-2 people) so Palmar seemed to be in direct contention with my mayor votes for absolutely no reason whatsoever (I even had sentinel as my lynch policy for a long while). I ultimately ended up still lynching Palmar: A) because my vote was locked in and I never really got to change it to BH when your slot and vivax saved him B) I would much rather have fun with a lynch on a really polarising player to lynch instead of some shitty policy lynch anyway that may or may not have actually turned into a scum BH. We now have about 100 different reads on this lynch and we have the flip to boot. It wouldn't have been the same if Palmar didn't flip either. I was tempted to vote some non-entity but that's really really fucking boring and wouldn't be fun. Palmar - (wishy washy Iamp post, wishy washy Acro post. I call him out that he has no solid scum reads and he has to hunker down and scum read someone. Defaults to Sentinel still, can't see any motivation from sentinel other than scum motivation. He then makes some bs analysis of the wagons acknowledging that his wagon is the most scum motivated one to follow but doesn't use that to reevaluate anything and doesn't question which of the people on the wagon are scummy. He defends Pandain who has literally posted nothing but coaching. This whole post to town read Damdred is so unnecessarily OTT it's ridiculous https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/542541-end-of-the-world-party-mafia?page=88#1750Makes a movement for Rayn to be mafia based on Rayn's activity which hasn't meant anything since a long time now. Doesn't even get what Rayn said correct. Doesn't even know what Damdred/Rsoul posted about LS. Not interested in figuring out game, instead tried to use others to prove his point. Wants to vote Conversion because Conversion was lazy but attributes it to mafia motivation instead of just someone being lazy. That's the crux of his entire read. Fakes some floundering on it when Conversion posts some irl excuse, seems pretty forced. After nothing in between Conversion drops off max scum vote list and is replaced with lurker and policy lynch. Not great at all.) The former is literally after the lynch happened. The latter is a list post half an hour before the lynch when you've been harping on about Palmar all day. Both are a posteriori justifications rather than actually engaging him. And in particular the latter about when Palmar started scumhunting is quite blatantly false. But we can argue about that until we're both blue in the face, because you'll probably just "no true Scotsman" his scumhunting, just like rayn just did. No, it is not false. I called Palmar out with the original paragraph where I said I wanted to lynch him, with which you even explicitly said you agreed with. Then Palmar started scum hunting and I thought everything he said was scummy. Also how have I not interacted with Palmar? Almost everything in my list post case is because I interacted with Palmar to make him elaborate on those mistakes. Unless now you're adding another reason that me being on holiday and not formulating everything into one central place until I actually had time to on a PC is scummy? Furthermore, none of this makes me mafia in the slightest. I said I was lynching palmar, I outlined my reasons at multiple points and made a case in my reads list, I was pretty sure on the read and he died. You're calling me mafia for being wrong rather than mafia who made up something to lynch Palmar. Can you stop spamming defenses and just only post about scum reads. It's not doing you any good and the added page count discourages people.
Hello Grack, feel free to comment on any number of cases I've previously posted before people derailed me. I made a big post on exo/people off wagon around the d1 lynch. Can't remember if you commented on it.
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I think a good place to start looking from now is the people that expressed that we really need a bh flip to figure out what happened d1 but are now voting me instead. I can't for the life of me tell you who that was but I know they definitely exist and I'll find them.
There is no better information kill than a BH kill. Killing me is no better than killing Palmar. Same result.
Still think Exo's start of filter is clean but from the bh comment onwards all I remember is thinking "must lynch" and d1 me thought that too at some point. Really need to read his posts in context rather than through a filter because it reads very differently like that.
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On March 07 2019 00:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I think there's better lynches possibly.
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On March 07 2019 00:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 00:06 Holyflare wrote:On March 07 2019 00:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 07 2019 00:03 Holyflare wrote:
I think we have to lynch Acrofales I think there's better lynches possibly. I dont and i think this is gonna be a race between you and him.
I'm not really fussed about a race. I just want to find and lynch mafia and Acro probably isn't the best one to lynch. I think Chezinu, exo etc are all good lynches.
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On March 07 2019 00:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 00:10 Holyflare wrote:On March 07 2019 00:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 07 2019 00:06 Holyflare wrote:On March 07 2019 00:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 07 2019 00:03 Holyflare wrote:
I think we have to lynch Acrofales I think there's better lynches possibly. I dont and i think this is gonna be a race between you and him. I'm not really fussed about a race. I just want to find and lynch mafia and Acro probably isn't the best one to lynch. I think Chezinu, exo etc are all good lynches. are you actually mafia?
No but I'm not particularly reading properly and I just kind of glazed over whatever you were writing to be honest. Your case is that he didn't criticise my palmar wagon when he had his own reads?
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On March 07 2019 00:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 00:20 Holyflare wrote:On March 07 2019 00:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 07 2019 00:10 Holyflare wrote:On March 07 2019 00:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 07 2019 00:06 Holyflare wrote:On March 07 2019 00:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 07 2019 00:03 Holyflare wrote:
I think we have to lynch Acrofales I think there's better lynches possibly. I dont and i think this is gonna be a race between you and him. I'm not really fussed about a race. I just want to find and lynch mafia and Acro probably isn't the best one to lynch. I think Chezinu, exo etc are all good lynches. are you actually mafia? No but I'm not particularly reading properly and I just kind of glazed over whatever you were writing to be honest. Your case is that he didn't criticise my palmar wagon when he had his own reads? no, that's not my case. try reading my posts with thought for once.
I really just can't at the moment. I'm on and off at work so just give me bullet points.
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On March 07 2019 00:22 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 00:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 07 2019 00:20 Holyflare wrote:On March 07 2019 00:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 07 2019 00:10 Holyflare wrote:On March 07 2019 00:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 07 2019 00:06 Holyflare wrote:On March 07 2019 00:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 07 2019 00:03 Holyflare wrote:
I think we have to lynch Acrofales I think there's better lynches possibly. I dont and i think this is gonna be a race between you and him. I'm not really fussed about a race. I just want to find and lynch mafia and Acro probably isn't the best one to lynch. I think Chezinu, exo etc are all good lynches. are you actually mafia? No but I'm not particularly reading properly and I just kind of glazed over whatever you were writing to be honest. Your case is that he didn't criticise my palmar wagon when he had his own reads? no, that's not my case. try reading my posts with thought for once. I really just can't at the moment. I'm on and off at work so just give me bullet points.
Actually I remember reading but not being totally enthralled.
He even had to double check how many games with Iamp he played so I think that scum reading iamp thing is a moot point.
Hypocrite thing is easily done by townies.
Not convincing anyone when he's a big voice in the thread is not a bad point as well as his anger towards me that looks really fake. His cop out only lynch hf thing is also scummy.
You're also missing some other things he did d1 which I outlined at some point but have forgotten.
But at the end of the day I'm just not feeling it until I read him myself.
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On March 04 2019 06:54 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2019 06:17 Acrofales wrote:
I'm here and caught up. There's a few posts in specific that I want to respond to, but in general:
1. Iamp is an idiot. He makes a case on me every game and it's always really bad. I will respond in more detail when I get to it, but his whole case is dumb. For starters, neither sicklucker nor oats are lurkers. Moreover, I quite obviously excluded the real lurkers. I want to kill the people who are popping into the thread, not contributing and fucking off. Not the people who weren't here at all. Iamp wanting to lynch me for dumb shit isn't new, and he's always wrong. He eats out of my hand when I'm scum and wants to lynch me when I'm town. And this is all I remember about him from 5 years ago. It's always fun. I'll decide later whether this was a scummy push, though. He hasn't done much of use other than his "case" on me, whcih he started before I had even gotten into this thread proper. Anyway, I don't think he is a good lynch target for D1. He usually starts to see the light eventually when he's town, and if he isn't, we can kill him tomorrow. Better stuff to do today.
2. No longer want to kill Sent. But the reason Palmar gets the votes is because he was clear and concise about his aims, whereas HF had many different goals. Now that sent claims he read his PM, and has actually started playing a bit, I don't think he's a good kill anymore. @Palmar: do you still plan on murdering sent?
3. I'm still quite happy with Palmar for mayor, his posts have been townie enough for me and I trust him to find scum a lot more than I do HF.
4. Lets lynch Oats. I'm on board with damdred, but he promised to contribute in 10 mins, so I'll give him until then. Oats has given no sign he has read the thread beyond looking for stuff to troll and throw out random names. Grackaroni has managed to look a bt more townie in his posts today. He pulled himself together and he is totally buddying me and I'm falling for it. Deal with it. 3. I trust Palmer to find mafia a lot more than Holyflare. 4. Let's lynch the wagon Holyflare started. Ok Acro. Have my vote.
Ahhh
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On March 04 2019 19:19 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2019 19:06 Acrofales wrote:On March 04 2019 19:02 Palmar wrote:
Rayn looks pretty bad as well, if only for the fact he's not berating some poor soul right now. K. I'm comfortable sheeping Palmar. Rayn not being abusive feels like he's trying to fly under the radar. Now, if you can just vote Oats, I can afk the rest of the day You're 2 for 2 acro.
On March 04 2019 19:20 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2019 07:29 Acrofales wrote:On March 04 2019 07:22 Holyflare wrote:
Acro, wave, oats, rayn, chez, ls, mocsta(?) (+a shit tonne of others that elude me) will be the lynch today. There's really so many people I could easily lynch and just not care tbh. Acro is town. Wave, oats I'm on board with. Rayn is a no. Your fight with him didn't give me scum vibes on either of you. Just made me want to tear my hair out.
Chez also a no. He seems fine. LS I can't figure out, and can't be bothered to right now as I already have enough ppl I want to lynch. Mocsta said before the game he wouldn't be around and he wasn't around. His few posts don't seem scummy, but he'd better start playing tomorrow. Mate you really are mafia lol
Ahhhhhhhh
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On March 07 2019 01:31 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 17:24 Holyflare wrote:
The people voting me are on the biggest cop out lynch of 2019. I bet they're the same people that whined that BH didn't get shot too.
What benefit does my flip bring other than drawing you closer to end game? BH at least gives you the information about wagons. I'm also pumping out content comparatively to BH who is just sitting there with the most information in the game about his wagon and instead he's still just repeating to kill him. You may not agree with what I'm writing but that's your choice.
You can look at MZ's spreadsheet to see how stupid lynching palmar would have been if I was mafia. I'm not stupid as mafia, I demand thread consensus and people town reading me because it's the path of least resistance.
I will look into you Holyflare voters and if I see that you complained that BH isn't dead I will know your motivation about lynching me is completely feigned. Literally wanna lynch holyflare off this post alone Just for giggles, who would you have lynched if you were mafia holyflare?
BH if he was town. I would have fabricated a read on someone else if he was mafia.
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On March 07 2019 01:43 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 20:34 Holyflare wrote:
Imagine thinking bh is mafia but then not voting him when you get the most information about d1 wagons. Imagine killing the other mayor wagon and complaining that you couldn’t change your vote
And, again, why don't you acknowledge the fact I can easily modkill myself to prove this as the case?
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On March 07 2019 01:42 sicklucker wrote:
hf who do you think is pushing your lynch that you think is mafia. if none are why do you think that
Holyflare (7): Acrofales, Blazinghand, WaveofShadow, sicklucker, BloodyC0bbler, Vivax, Alakaslam
Acro, bh, wave, bc, vivax, slam
Bh maybe not. Still debating myself internally.
Alakaslam is almost definitely mafia at this point. Not a chance he talks through me to this extent and ninja votes me and says he's following dead people's reads if he's town. Not only did those dead people not really think that but he's opportune as fuck.
Wave because at every opportunity I try and present a new take on a lynch, ie Mocsta or put a whole wall of text in the thread, ie BH voting analysis he only comments on the fact I'm clogging up the thread in defence and whines we're not posting content. The content is there but he is just content to ignore it and perpetuate the rhetoric.
Vivax. Nothing more opportune than saying you town read a guy over night to then scum read him and everyone defending him when a wagon starts on a towny lynch. Let's ignore the fact that mafia would never show face to defend me if I was mafia at this point and if they are showing face now it is because of TMI.
BC made the most cherry picked out of context wrong case I could see, got countered with evidence, rejigged his read to mean something else and afkd again. Narrative galore.
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On March 07 2019 01:34 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 17:29 Holyflare wrote:On March 06 2019 17:28 Mocsta wrote:
Hf
Some point this cycle. Preferably after ace responds. I want ur take on my ace case I don't agree with it. Why would someone fabled for being so good at mafia make such blatantly false accusations? If he doesn't come up with some read based on those posts then yeah, probably mafia. Wait a minute, if Ace made blatantly false accusations then he can’t be mafia right because he wouldn’t do it, he’s too good as scum. But here you are saying that if he doesn’t have an explanation ie. made blatantly false accusations then he’s mafia?! That doesn’t make any sense
No, I'm saying I think he is doing it as a reaction test because it is so blatantly wrong. If he doesn't then the only reason a good player makes those mistakes is because they just don't give a shit about the game and are phoning it in, aka mafia.
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On March 07 2019 01:57 WaveofShadow wrote:
So the whole scumteam has jumped on your wagon right off the bat?
kk
I know you're sad I haven't read your stuff, but I don't have the opportunity to do anything beyond taking potshots and small posts while I'm at work.
You're the scummiest people in this game basically, yes.
Are you saying you town read bc even after that atrocious case he made?
Are you saying you town read bh?
Are you saying you town read Alakaslam when all he's doing is sitting at the sidelines doing nothing but rehashing that he wants to lynch me but each time the reason gets countered he shifts it to a new one?
Are you saying you town read vivax after his 180 when lynching bh would make Vivax's alignment way more known? After I made some analysis on the bh vote changes and Vivax, who is in the best position to explain them, decides to troll and say everyone defending me is mafia? The dude could straight up solve the game from his position and he knows as much. He also campaigned solidly for a bh lynch, wanted to vote iamp in mayor to lynch bh and then swapped to save bh at the last second. Now he wants nothing to do with bh.
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EPT
