[M]Chill Hop Mafia

On June 27 2018 06:43 Holyflare wrote:


Bit of an exceptional case imo.

On June 27 2018 14:28 Regfan wrote:
I'm mostly caught up to date, want to do a bunch of rereads and still haven't heard much from Gemma when I get home from work in ~4 hours; we've scheduled a time later tonight to talk over our reads/thoughts at least.

Going to dump some thoughts in my breaks at work so this'll come out in bits and pieces.

-> Not remotely a fan of Koshi's entrance and posting so far, his buddying up to Rayn in particular is problematic given if Rayns town here I'm not seeing eye to eye with a fair chunk of his reads and can easily see mafia taking advantage of that as well as using him as an excuse to not have to actually post readable content. Would like others to let me know if this is just TypicalKoshiThings or not.

-> Shockeeys posts thus far aren't much better than Koshis, dislike that his posts suggest he's already got around to reading parts of the thread but seeing little to no thoughts from him yet. Am very much hoping it's a case of him working towards a bigger catch up post but otherwise can see him easily being scum that's trying to coast through the day while focus is elsewhere.

-> Box & Slendy being no-shows so far isn't great at all given we're more than half way through the day phase. Even moreso disappointing from Slendy given he's a large part of the reason I joined this game and was someone I thought I'd be able to still get a grip on and read even after all this time relatively easily.

- R

On June 26 2018 08:06 Calix wrote:


Sup, long time no see. Fancy randomly bandwagoning some AFK person for the lulz?

On June 27 2018 20:15 Calix wrote:
I'm as good as rayn and HF? Since when? lmao

Anyway I've skimmed the thread. I'm making the executive decision to largely ignore the TWO (!!!) giant cases against me since I'll be working for most of the day and putting me on the defense near EOD is a really bad idea. I'll be around for EOD though so I can do some filter-diving and give reads then ^^

Also Regfan goes up a notch for being sensible, looking into things and discouraging that dumb fight or whatever you'd call it between Tictock and Mocsta (while Mocsta's case was pretty bad, it's not mafia-terrible, I don't think).

Regfan also realises that, in a game where about 1/3 of the players aren't actually playing, lynching someone who is playing on D1 is suboptimal.

Yes, yes, this argument is really self-serving but it's not wrong so you should probably just do it.

In a normal game, this would be the part where I tell you who the best lynch is but I would be lying if I said I had any preference. Sure, I can analyse Koshi/ ShoCkeyy/ Vivax or whine about how terrible it is that two players haven't posted yet. But I don't think it's possible to accurately assess players with such low post counts so I don't see the point of wasting time by pretending to do so. I could lynch literally any of them right now and my thoughts are probably not changing until they actually start doing stuff.

On June 27 2018 14:00 Tictock wrote:
I think I am also just pretty against lynching Calix today.

I still a bit of sus on her, but her play as the day has gone on has left me feeling like their is a solid chance she could be town here still.

Even if I was still toying with the idea of Calix being in my working Mafia team (which is purely just to keep my imagination going, I don't actually think I have a good chance at pinging the entire team D1), I would probably advocate against her lynch today as she is a bad player to lynch D1.

Honestly I really want to push town to do the smart thing for once D1 and kill off someone like Shokey or Koshi. Boxer deserves something worse than a lynch for signing up with an exclamation right before the game starts then not posting for most of D1 (assuming he does post and nothing truly terrible happened to him).

I also think Vivax is probably a fine lynch, and want more people to relook at Mocsta again since he's fresh on my mind now.

On June 27 2018 21:23 Calix wrote:
Huh, I actually didn't see ShoCkeyy's post where he actively scum-reads TT. I only saw that one about the medic or mafia conclusion.



TT isn't the only person with a lot of 'scum reads' (since there are a lot of questionable players and AFK slots, how would anyone find this notable?). He follows this up by reiterating how he doesn't like TT's unlynchable comments. Then he gives excuses for why he doesn't have any 'decent reads' before bad-mouthing the thread for fighting each other.

Yeah, could lynch this ^^

On June 27 2018 21:47 Calix wrote:
Another bad post, eh? ^^

Since when did you very conveniently and opportunistically decide to scum-read me, may I ask? And for what reason?

That paragraph about AFKs being more likely town and rambling about the game starting date is filler.

Your town-read on Vivax is based on a very flimsy pre-flip association which will crumple like a house of cards. Do you have any substantial reason to town-read this guy?

On June 27 2018 22:08 Calix wrote:


Huh? Mafia can't shoot multiple people in a night.

I don't see how trying to lynch someone who TOWN-READS me is scummy since that means I'm trying to vote off someone who isn't going to vote for me...at a time when I'm being discussed as a lynch candidate. In no world does that make me mafia.

TT is American iirc, I'm from the UK. We're not usually on at the same time ^^

On June 27 2018 22:21 Calix wrote:


Because it's 13P and mafia always gets 1 KPN in 13Ps otherwise it'd be unbalanced? You can look at every recent 13P game to verify this.

Your 'evidence' for scum-reading TT and I is very weak. With that in mind, your unnatural level of confidence in TT/ Calix scum-team comes across as very forced and try-hard as if you're overcompensating for knowing that I'm town.

On June 27 2018 22:21 Conversion wrote:
Is this a manufactured dumb mechanics thing from Shock? I highly doubt a dude who has played mafia here before honestly thinks mafia getting 3 KP in one night is balanced. at all

On June 27 2018 22:33 Calix wrote:


But I'm not wrong. I'm saying your level of confidence in your scum-read doesn't square up with the evidence provided. Which shows that you're making things up.

I still don't know why you scum-read me individually and saying "because you're on a team with TT" shows very superficial thinking.

Are you saying you're scum-reading me for scum-reading you first? I don't know how to interpret your last sentences otherwise.

On June 27 2018 08:15 Mocsta wrote:
##Vote: Calix

+ Show Spoiler [quotes] +

I have highlighted key parts of the quotes in red, as I do believe this is a genuine scum slip/town tell & may have gone over most peoples heads.

(1) Calix requests random vote bandwagon
(2) Regfan posts a fake post
(3) TT requests to vote Regfan (implied to Calix)
(4) Calix provides "analysis of Regfan post" by commenting on validity of cop claim
(5) Other posters comment on "Regfan post" by simply stating "copypasta"

What I find critical about this sequence of events is that:
- Calix cop claim assessment doesn't consider a world where Regfan is mafia and fake-posting, instead
- Calix auto-assumes a world where Regfan is cop or VT

This is important because Calix is changing gears from "random vote" to "analysis before vote" to provide this contribution that is in essence providing town-lean evidence to upgrade from scummy to NULL.

This only satisfies mafia agenda.
You provide authentic contribution (i.e. town read), make a potential ally in Regfan, and possibly start a wagon on those that scum read Regfan.

I think the townier way to go about the fake-post was what others did. Comment that its a copy/paste and move on. In a world where you only have your PM that is green or blue; how do you read into that fake-post any further.... well, you cant.

So why does Calix then go out on a limb so early?
Why jump to the conclusion that a fake-post is from town land only?
Why change gears in the first place?

I absolutely understand why town and scum would not want to random vote; but I cannot comprehend why any town would want to feign a care-free attitude to then ditch it immediately.

On June 27 2018 21:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I simply don't have much to add rn. Also when someone acts like complete ass towards me for no reason at all i am gonna grab my tools and go home. I have better things to do than lose my mental health over some idiot.

Calix is painfully obviously mafia. Vote on Vivax means absolutely nothing since it's probably the best thing to do regardless of Vivax' affiliation. She isn't even trying to do anything after Cake case, simply just nothing, except for looking into lurkers (which also was btw scummy as per her opinion). If i have ever seen a staged conversation it is the one between Calix and Vivax. Oh my dear god i laughed at it yesterday.

Vivax has simply zero train of thought in anything he has said this game. It is that simple.

I am growing more and more suspicions regarding the hydra. Probably our third mafia right there. Some bullet points:
- The thing i talked about earlier where Regfan's and Gemma's thoughts never even try to meld. It was like they are playing a completely different game by themselves and not even trying to figure out which one is wrong when they have a differing opinion on something. Magically, now, when i point this out, it changes! Except that this doesn't make any sense either since Gemma tried to feed some "you don't probably just know how playing as hydra works" bullshit that doesn't even make any sense. But anyways, if she believes in that, there is no reason to change the way they act. So basically it is just done because someone figured out it is not natural what they were doing, and it is because the only reasons you would want to do that is to either stay on both side of the fences or if "one person fucks up, the other one cleans after".
- Then there is the thing where Gemma calls Calix town because Calix was nice, and me mafia because i was not nice, early on in the game. When Calix answers my case later on (i should also note that Calix never really touches the actual case even, just some random shit about wording and stuff), what's Gemma's opinion... Calix is supertown because Calix is not nice!!!! Yeahhhh, it's quite amusing when supposedly same standards work in the opposite way regading who is the person in question.
- Same with Regfan's read on Calix. The post where Mocsta did go into argument with him earlier today. Regfan doesn't want to lynch Calix because some bs about some three people not being mafia together and some percentage stuff. What is that even, you lynch people who are scummy. If you don't want to lynch someone then you don't think they are scummy. Regfan never even says if he thinks Calix is scummy or not, just some crap that has nothing to do with Calix' affiliation and the conclusion is "not a good lynch". Way to present a "read" without actually saying anything about the person.
- Then there is this TT read. 12 hours ago Gemma literally posted this; "We both felt good about TT at the same time.". Suddenly Gemma heavily dislikes TT, for no apparent reason. Basically the only thing TT has done since 12 hrs ago is agreed with the hydra's read that Calix is not necessarily a good lynch. That is literally the only thing that has changed regarding tictocks reads after Gemma called him town. Conclusion; Holyflare watch out, you see what they are doing?
- I am not sure i believe regfan doesn't have a read on me since basically every game we have been together in he (as town) always claims "rayn is super easy to read when he is town" (which also simply by association means i am easy to read when i am mafia). If that is correct or not, it's irrelevant, it's relevant he believes so regardless how much of time has passed from our last game together.

So yeah, those are my scumreads. I pretend Conversion doesn't exist in the game but he is most likely not mafia anyways.

On June 27 2018 23:13 Calix wrote:


Another meta defense? I'm getting sick of this. Why can't anyone just defend their posts that they're making IN THIS GAME instead of expecting me to slog through games from 2012 or whatever?

What's the point of casing people when everyone responds to what I say with "but what about this really old meta though?" and "how dare you scum-read people you've never played with before, you're obviously mafia"?

I too could throw a bunch of old games at you if I really wanted to "prove" I'm town but that's boring and doesn't actually prove anything anyway.

But I give up. I'll just stick with Vivax so I don't have to deal with some bullshit meta defense instead of anything sourced from this particular game.

On June 27 2018 23:48 Regfan wrote:
This is more or less where we're at as a hydra, btw.

Regfan
Mocsta
Holyflare
Calix
raynpelikoneet
CopCake

TheSlenderMan
boxerfred
Conversion
Ticktock

Vivax
Koshi
ShoCkeyy

We wouldn't lynch anyone in the top tier right now and we think they're all town with varying levels of confidence. We'd both bet the game on Mocsta being town, and I don't think we're very doubtful of anyone in that grouping being town.

The second lot are question marks but probably not people we would lynch today when it comes down it, unless we couldn't get anyone in the bottom grouping, and the bottom grouping are people we scumread to some degree, although I'm somewhat uncomfortable voting Vivax at this point given Koshi's treatment of him. I feel really conflicted about all of my scumreads which isn't particularly good when it's supposed to be my job to take care of that side of things but I'm in the middle of a nervous breakdown IRL so I'm just going to blame that.

-G

On June 28 2018 01:14 Tictock wrote:
Looks like I was actually reading pg 26, which I have now finished.

I need to move my vote off Reg kus I am starting to think I have just been wrong and a bit tunneled on him, and even of not seems to be a solid player to keep around given what I've been reading.

I am warming up to a ShoCkeyy lynch, so will move my vote there. He is going to be the next name on my list of dives, but unless he posts a bunch more that will be a short filter.

On June 28 2018 01:50 Tictock wrote:




I'm sorry, what?

You need to explain to me this Vivax is solid town read, because you just loosely frame it as being evident because of interaction between me and Calix? Makes no sense

On June 28 2018 02:03 Tictock wrote:



Ehhh, feels fake that you use this to continue to push your scumread on Calix.

It is a perfectly reasonable assumption that mafia only get one shot at night as that is the TL Mafia standard. This is something you know, so this just looks like you are slinging anything you can without actually evaluating it.

On June 28 2018 02:26 Conversion wrote:
@Calix you can just CTRL+F Shock here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/528031-heroes-of-the-storm-mafia?user=Conversion&view=all

but I aggregated some things. I think I just put him on a low-key read but don't dwell on because I tried way too hard to read into him in the aforementioned game and was just straight up wrong.

+ Show Spoiler +

On June 28 2018 02:50 Holyflare wrote:
Also why isn't shockey voting calix?

On June 27 2018 00:22 Vivax wrote:
I remember vividly HF complaining in a chat we had that the new player batch tended to say "x is scummy y is townie" without explaining why.

Yet now he does it himself and everyone around him as well. I explain pretty much every reason for a post being scummy or townie, as simple as the reasons may be.

Basically none of you seem to give a shit about the though process behind my posts. You just call them scummy or townie as it suits your needs.

On June 27 2018 00:28 Vivax wrote:


Cause conversion said it was copypasta right when you were ITT.

While I was reading that part I googled a snip of that text myself and found it on several mafia sites. Then I saw you trying to pick it apart.

I didn't find it particularly alignment indicative but the entire discussion stemming from it seemed like a waste of space to me cause you got trolled hard. So I dropped in to mention that.

On June 28 2018 03:25 Calix wrote:


You seriously think there's two mafia wagons as the main lynch options with two of the mafia sitting on you?

You're not even SLIGHTLY doubtful that your reads might be wrong there?

On June 28 2018 03:54 Vivax wrote:
On a quick reread I like shockey more for mafia than TT actually

On June 28 2018 04:25 Holyflare wrote:


You. I don't believe you think shockeyy has dumb telled himself over the kp thing when even he himself said it was a trap.

Did you hear what he gained from the trap? I haven't. Even though many people responded.

On June 28 2018 06:53 Holyflare wrote:


I'd think you'd probably be mafia.

Don't get any of the scum reads against calix tbh.

On June 28 2018 07:07 Vivax wrote:


I have a red check on shockeyy

On June 28 2018 07:07 Mocsta wrote:
Repost

On June 28 2018 23:21 CopCake wrote:


Like this post is a lie and very manipulative.

On June 29 2018 00:08 Holyflare wrote:
Lol time to vote shockeyy tomorrow. My bad.

On June 29 2018 00:34 Calix wrote:
I don't give a fuck about this NK stuff. It's just a distraction rayn's throwing around.

He's probably just mafia at this point. Tell me a single interesting thing he's said or done since EOD. Tell me what he is doing aside from defending ShoCkeyy because of terrible dumb-tell analysis and calling me terrible/ mafia. I can't think of anything.

His recent posts are just bluffing and bullshit night kill posts and hollow reads, reads that have barely changed despite all this new information from EOD.

Why is he even posting? He just look like he wants to distract people and annoy HF with all this "my reads are way better than HF's" and "HF sucks at NKs" stuff.

On June 28 2018 07:59 Vivax wrote:


Scummy post. Listen to her for switching to bf but not to shockey?

On June 28 2018 08:00 Vivax wrote:
Well awesome JUST when you made everyone switch off shockey cause you didn't want to, you switch to him all of a sudden. Way of being dumpster.

On June 27 2018 21:43 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I think Vivax is town, after reading convos between Tictock and Calix... Who btw barely even talk to each other in the thread other than "I didn't like your case against Cake".

It stars with Calix here:



What I've found in past games is that afkers are usually town, and away, since they don't have a huge role in the game, they tend to just sit back, watch, and post when needed. And also honestly, I've notice way more mafia trying to lynch into afk towns, than anything. I would understand the afkers too because I thought the game was starting Tuesday. Not Monday night, so I had to play a large catch up as part of it.

here Calix still trying to put blame on afker's, low post count trying to lynch them off, or Vivax, who is starting to look more town after each post because of the interactions between Tictock and Calix.


Then tictock's reasoning of not "voting for Cilax"


Possibly lynching off a teammate d1 won't work for him, so yea let's go for the afkers or Vivax the well known town...

On June 28 2018 08:38 Calix wrote:
I don't want Vivax dead because I think he's turning into a beautiful butterfly.

And if you look past his posting style, his content's been alright.

On June 29 2018 00:00 Calix wrote:


I defend my town-reads a lot when I am town.

In my first game on this site, TT and I were both town. TT was the D1 lynch and I went out of my way to save him. But I failed. Then people called me mafia for "white-knighting TT". Think that was Haunted Mafia 3 or something.

I also hard-defended Tumblewood against accusations in one of BTDT's Generic Mafia games.

Just two examples off the top of my head.

On June 27 2018 02:28 Calix wrote:


I don't have anything insightful with mafia reads. My current thinking is "the active people seem townie so there's probably more mafia in the inactive section" but I also don't know how to sort between boxerfred/ Koshi/ SlenderMan/ Vivax/ ShoCkeyy.

I guess Koshi and Vivax and ShoCkeyy because they've posted and their posts are pretty underwhelming and accomplish even less shit than I have? And Vivax might be trying to pocket/ white-knight me since I'm looking like a likely mislynch right now.

I realise I'm still voting for you so lemme change that: ##Vote: Vivax.

I think Mocsta is town because he seems to be posting off-the-cuff and doesn't seem to have preformed conclusions and is flexible with his reads. His style is different from his last game too.

Conversion's town because he seems to be having fun while still contributing when he wants.

Tictock's probably town. I haven't actually opened his filter though. I'm just being cocky and assuming he'll fuck up really bad at some point if he's scum so I'm not worried about him.

On June 28 2018 08:00 Holyflare wrote:
Lo and behold mafia conversion saves mafi bf.

On July 01 2018 05:08 Holyflare wrote:


Why the fuck would you lynch me based off of this?

On July 01 2018 05:10 Calix wrote:
You have just committed to a mafia claim in my eyes.

That post was absolutely terrible.

Your reads HAVEN’T changed at all! You’ve just found NK WIFOM to fling at me

On June 28 2018 07:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
So mocsta comes back, and within 5 mins already votes for me, cool, this guy reads... mafia qt.

On July 01 2018 05:16 Holyflare wrote:
The only reason for you to think calix was mafia after the votes last night was if tt was mafia. She effectively saved you to save tt by voting a lynch that would make her look really bad. Why would she do that if you are town shockeyy?

Why would I not vote you myself if I am mafia with calix and tt is town? Why do I not vote tt or you and get free modkill kills?

On June 30 2018 07:21 Calix wrote:


I'm not even gonna BM you, TT, because I relate to this.

This game is crazy. I read the last 8-9 pages and you are all on the wrong track and show no signs of correcting yourselves. TT and HF and I are all really townie and yet half the game thinks we're a mafia team?

Mocsta isn't even doing anything aside from agreeing with thread sentiment at every chance he gets. I see zero initiative from this guy.

Conversion is not even pretending to solve the game, just wants HF dead for voting Boxerfred and OMGUSes me after I case him.

And I've talked about ShoCkeyy 58403967 times at this point.

I just don't see the point of putting in more time to play. I have 11 pages of filter already. My alignment is incredibly obvious at this point and if you guys can't see that, it's on you.

On June 30 2018 07:42 Calix wrote:


Whatever you say, Mocsheep.

On June 30 2018 07:47 Calix wrote:


Then stop playing if this game is such a huge waste of your time instead of telling us about it.

I'm also going to throw up the possibility of Koshi/ Slenderman being two of the mafia. That might explain why people are having such a hard time finding scum-reads and keep pushing obvious townies instead. Because there's only one mafia to be found and since their scum-buddies aren't under any pressure, they can say whatever the fuck they want.

I know people will say "lol Calix is focusing on inactives so she doesn't get lynched" but it's actually a valid world that people should consider at the very least. Well, the part about "town eating itself alive" anyway.

Obviously it's not a world I 100% believe in (since I'm voting for you and think you/ ShoCkeyy/ Mocsta are scummy) but it's something I've been considering. You think this idea holds any water?

On June 27 2018 00:15 Vivax wrote:


Scummy post.

Ie sucking up to HF then agreeing to vote his scumreads.

On July 01 2018 07:47 Holyflare wrote:
Dead threads, just what I love.

On July 02 2018 08:01 Calix wrote:
Slenderman and CopCake are NOT the same alignment.

On July 02 2018 08:37 Calix wrote:
And I only 'crumbed' once.

It was with that 'emotional' post where I basically said "don't lynch me today, lynch me on D3" (because I am cop and should hopefully have checks by then)

On July 02 2018 08:59 Calix wrote:
All I know is that I'm town, Slenderman/ CopCake contains one mafia, and Koshi might be legitimate but I'd need confirmation from rayn.

If rayn keeps to his claim then rayn/ Koshi would have the second mafia otherwise both are town.

Conversion/ HF/ ShoCkeyy contains either 1 mafia (if rayn/ Koshi has scum) or 2 mafia.

If I've made a mistake here then lemme know. This stuff's important for world-building and figuring out which teams are never a thing.

On July 01 2018 11:31 CopCake wrote:
What if...

I am a role...

On July 03 2018 07:30 Holyflare wrote:
Still not mafia.

Don't say my vote on mocsta was bad when you couldn't be bothered to even read it either. I put in a lot of effort correcting all the vote counts and trying to figure it out.

On July 04 2018 08:35 Tictock wrote:
Nah never mind

Sorry I suck