EPT[M] Classic Mafia
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 20 2018 08:00 MoosyDoosy wrote: Also the number of players in this game worries me. Someone will have to enlighten me on setup because I do not know what it is. Can't be me this time, because I don't know what it is either. I guess the most important question would be: How many mafia are there? The answer to this question will heavily influence all kinds of strategic decisions. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 20 2018 08:08 KelsierSC wrote: maybe when we get deeper into the game. "Strategy" for the first few days is not be a fucktard , show yourself to be town and then we just lynch people who can't follow those rules Nah. Knowledge of that answer will be critical by Day 2 at the very latest. Anyway, will PM host with that question (and others. There are several things left unclarified in the OP that we should probably have answers to, even in a "semi-open setup") | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 20 2018 08:57 Vivax wrote: I think this is an awful reason to scumread Moosy. ExO picked the first inconsistency he could find. And what is it even? Moosy scum lean cause he wanted setup explained but he /outed earlier because of the amount of players and if he does the first he can't do the latter??? I don't even see the connection between the two sentences. Mmhmm. "/out because too many players" and "can't be bothered to read the setup" is no kind of inconsistency. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 20 2018 11:44 Tictock wrote: First off, I have no idea how on earth you believe that you can tell if HF is a role or not based on his ~4 posts. Second, there is literally no reason why town should be concerned about someone being a role or not in the first few hours of the game. Third, even IF you did somehow have a god read about HF's role status you should realize it is only in Mafia's interest to point that out. ##Vote: Exo I just can't believe you actually have this "role read", and can be this bothered by Vivax pinging you to hard defend it as town. This is a super-terrible reason to vote against someone. It is only in Mafia's interest for a TOWN player to point it out. It's not really in Mafia's interest at all for Mafia to point it out. What is the Mafia motivation supposed to be, for making such an observation? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
I would support nearly any course of action that makes darthfoley stop doing what he's doing. I like Koshi's vote on disfo, so I'm gonna join that effort. ##Vote: disformation More votes on ykl would also be a good thing. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 20 2018 12:16 ykl wrote: instead makes a quick side track to challenge Ticktock instead. Nervous about something? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 20 2018 13:20 ykl wrote: Yeah, slightly. Nice deflect though, would you still want to address why you choose to completely ignore the person that's scum reading and voting for you? "Still?" I don't think I ever offered any indication that I was interested in addressing that. If I end up having something to say to Conversion, I'll do so. On March 20 2018 13:20 ykl wrote: I'm also having a hard time seeing where you are voting for makes sense. You apparently scumread both me and disformation but never really provided a good explanation as to why you think Koshi's vote on disformation is a good case at all to the point where you'd follow that vote instead. "Instead?" Like, instead of following some other vote? Which vote was I supposed to follow "instead?" | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 20 2018 14:10 Mocsta wrote: Interesting game so far. I have observed many are hung up that others arent playing the game, they believe it should be played. Have we forgotten that mafia dont want early spotlight.. that most of us do the stupid shit not when we are mafia, but instead, when we are town? I think an environment is being created where yes, plenty of stones are being lifted: Ex0, Conversion, Disinfo, ykl to name a few. However, are these really the best stones we could lift? I have decided to look elsewhere, and found a stone worth sharing with all. Now if you want to be smart and say: "Oi m8, if this stone has blended in; how did you find it", my response simply is "You suck, thats how" Now for the big reveal: This stone has a filter that rhymes with COCK BLOCK.. yes, it can only be: [youtube stuff here] ##Vote: Tictock 6/10 on your YouTube video. The original is probably better. Meanwhile, I don't really see that your vote and your introduction to your vote are synced too well. It's fine to posit that mafia don't want an early spotlight. But I don't think it can be argued that Tictock is keeping his head down and blending in. His last post made a point of saying how happy he is with where he has his vote, and then talked about how I had a "good shot" at being mafia "as well." So he's caught two baddies in the first half of Day 1, has he? I mean, that kind of post is likely to draw attention just from the sheer magnitude of the silliness involved. So if most of us do stupid shit when we are town, why would you deny Tictock the townlean that his stupid shit ought to have earned him? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 20 2018 15:56 rsoultin wrote: Slam is not giving me the adorable aimless vibes. I usually love reading his posts and keeping him around. Might be scum. Can you describe the difference between his posts in this game, and the last? I think you'd agree that if they aren't the same thing, they are at least *meant* to *look* like the same thing. So what's keeping them from looking like the same thing? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 20 2018 16:15 Mocsta wrote: Last post for a bit. Need to reserve some for influx of people waking up. In short, I find #291 to be a serious post. I think it demonstrates a lack of care to read the thread. Does this make Ex0_ mafia or town... well, whilst both parties do this, I think town is more likely than mafia to NOT read closely early game; and mafia is more likely than town to do this as the game progresses and becomes a waiting match. Yup. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 20 2018 17:00 Holyflare wrote: Not really true. Mafia want to post anything they can under the guise of scum hunting. Posting that I'm not a role isn't helping mafia in ANY way, it doesn't further any kind of scum read since I'm vt or mafia and it's just a completely empty read with nothing said. Good scum read. For one, saying you're not a power role does not fall "under the guise of scum hunting." Meanwhile, if you don't think saying you aren't a role helps Mafia in ANY way, then you must be completely disagreeing with what Ticktock said here? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
What are you asking him not to do? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 20 2018 18:00 Holyflare wrote: I don't think it helps mafia if he's town because he can't know what I am. It's pointless. It helps mafia if he's mafia because he uses this pointless post to try and fit in with scum hunting. Think you're wrong on both counts. It isn't pointless, if he's right, and it's based on something the mafia would otherwise have overlooked. This was the only part of what Tictock said that I actually agree with. And it doesn't help mafia if he's mafia because it does not "fit in with scum hunting." It's not scum hunting, that's why I just said it does not fall "under the guise of scum hunting." On March 20 2018 18:00 Holyflare wrote: Even last game when someone said I'm mafia medic or town medic had some thought process behind it. Yeah, BAD thought process. lol Conversely, Exo's thought process might actually make sense. If it does, he shouldn't be talking about it (again, this is the only thing I agree with Tictock about) but mafia doesn't make that misstep, there's no scum motivation behind taking that step, since it can't further the scum agenda and can only draw unwanted attention. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 20 2018 19:51 KelsierSC wrote: yeh it's not good. I don't know what it means alignment wise. I feel that if you're town you just have fun as town whereas if you rolled mafia the second time in 3 games and you wanted to make things fun fun yourself/hide you would make a persona. I can't say it makes him town or mafia but if I had to pick I would say it is more scum sided. Don't really agree, personally. How does the persona help him hide, if how annoying it is becomes a topic of conversation? I also haven't known scum players to normally be bored enough that they have to do anything like inventing a persona, in order to keep themselves entertained. Drawing a scum role should never be boring, it's pulling a town role that's boring. (I believe someone already said early in this thread that they pulled a town role and it's boring.) I haven't seen many people invent a role like this for themselves, but when they have, they've been town (and then they've been asked to cut it out, much like what's been happening to darthfoley here.) So while we mostly agree that it doesn't point too strongly in either direction, if *I* had to pick I would say it is more of a town indicator. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 21 2018 07:37 Mocsta wrote: Palmar, im the vig btw. Dont care to say it because mafia dont have a RB. lolwut | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 20 2018 20:05 Holyflare wrote: Last game where noobking was mafia he just focused on "scum reading" me in an attempt to shit up the thread and cause confusion instead of calling people town or mafia and giving reasons False. I called someone mafia (you) and gave reasons. I didn't try to shit up the thread OR cause confusion, I only tried to help Moosy escape the Noose by trying to put someone else into it. Like, EVERY word of what you're saying is wrong. On March 20 2018 20:05 Holyflare wrote: His play style as mafia (from a one game meta) was to ONLY point out logical fallacies and never actually scum hunt or see why people would make those mistakes. Pointing out logical fallacies and inconsistencies IS scumhunting. Scum have difficulty keeping their logic consistent because their needs change. Scum employ logical fallacies to push agendas that aren't actually logical. The only reason I pursued these things as scum is because it matches proper town play. Every time you encounter one of my arguments that you don't like (and/or cannot refute) you try to hand-wave it away as "semantics." I gave clear and precise reasoning for why what Exo did was town-indicative. You don't have to agree, but you sure can't win the point by just running away and crying "semantics!" Your style of argumentation would be useless even to a middle school debate team. IF you're Town in this game, just stay out of my way, and wait for me to drag your dead weight across the finish line. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 21 2018 01:20 Conversion wrote: What confuses me about n00bking is why he refuses to even briefly acknowledge that I want to lynch him. Why would any town just flat out refuse to discuss with the one person calling them scum, if even just to generate the reasons behind it? He's clearly active enough in the thread to nitpick certain posts, so I'm curious as to see if he's going to explain why he's not engaging me Engaging you about what? To "generate the reasons behind" your vote against me? If your vote is earnest, then generating the reasons behind it is your job, not mine. lol Assuming your vote wasn't earnest, then your tactic is one I've employed many times, and the town was better-served by me letting it play out, instead of immediately demonstrating how there was no reason to vote against me, and shutting down what you were trying to do. If you *were* using that tactic, then I was just as interested to see who might follow along as you were. If you weren't, then I guess you were only wasting time, but oh well. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 21 2018 02:29 rsoultin wrote: There's a bit of tinfoil with ykl that perhaps scummates might be pinging him because they know he's scum and that's why the reasons are so flimsy, but I really have no reason to read him anything. There will rarely be much reason to read anyone as anything, when we're halfway through the first phase of the game. I didn't say ykl was a good place for votes because I found especially compelling reasons to find him scum. He's a good place for votes because, by his own admission, he hasn't played mafia-by-forum before. That means that if he's scum, he's probably more likely than average to crack under pressure, and give himself away somehow. Lurkers and inexperienced players are always good places to apply pressure, and see what kind of reactions you get. Was rather disappointed to see you try and shield him. And HF's conduct was even worse (what else is new?) as he even went so far as to intervene in my questioning of the player, and answer for him. Answering for other players during a line of questioning is usually bad, but it's especially bad if the player being questioned is inexperienced. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 21 2018 03:26 darthfoley wrote: Like why does this matter? Idk and you don't either. Step 1) I notice that Alakaslam doesn't feel quite the same to me as in the previous game. It seems like his posts are an attempt to artificially recreate his play from the previous game, instead of an authentic repeat of his play from the previous game. Step 2) rsoul then makes almost the exact same observation. Step 3) I ask rsoul if she can elaborate on the difference between his play in the two games, so that I can tell if there's any sort of real substantiation that I can investigate, or if she's stuck in the same boat I am (with nothing better to explain the difference than "feelz.") Unfortunately it sounded like she's stuck in the same boat I am. Making me hesitant to join her effort to get votes on Alakaslam is the fact that in her first lengthy post of the thread, her read on Alakaslam was virtually the ONLY thing that lined up with my own thoughts. Whereas, in the previous game (where I know she was town) her thoughts aligned with what Town me would have been thinking on nearly every non-Holyflare-related subject, the entire game. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 21 2018 04:03 rsoultin wrote: Problem is, I don't really expect people to get my Slam read. I just think that it's probably right. Okay...soo....if people aren't going to get your slam read, then what keeps your vote on him from being wasted? Let's say we did get additional votes on Alakaslam. Is his reaction to the added pressure likely to help you further a read on him? Or give you anything you CAN use to convince others? Or would he just post more youtube videos, regardless of alignment, and everyone shrugs and says they can't get a read on him because he's not doing anything? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 21 2018 05:10 rsoultin wrote: Also idk his first post asking how many mafia there are really rubs me the wrong way. What strategic desicions could knowing that help inform on D1/D2? Here's a strategic decision that would be informed on D2 by knowing how many mafia the game started with: WHO TO LYNCH. If you know how many members of the mafia there are, you know how many kills they can execute. Then you can see if any are "missing." If you don't know how many to expect, then a healer doesn't know whether to have added trust toward the target he healed. A roleblocker or jailkeeper doesn't know whether to have added suspicion toward their own target. Circumstantial evidence yielded by the night results will very often outweigh whatever inclinations players previously had, about who "seemed" town and who "seemed" scummy. Instead of the pure guessing game of Day 1, you have hard data to work with...IF you know how many mafia members there are. So it's CRITICAL information. Unfortunately, the OP doesn't even give us a RANGE of possible answers. There's literally nothing keeping this from being an 11/9 setup at this point. Or 19/1. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 21 2018 07:33 Conversion wrote: Meh. I keep rereading n00bking's filter and I don't see town or NAI. I see scum. His entrance on how many mafia => strategy changing was a horrible post. How is that NAI? Why would a town anyone care about how many mafia there are? ONLY a town anyone wants players to find out how many mafia there are. lol Obviously my early scum game would mimic my early town game, but I would NOT go so far as to actually try and generate a discussion of how many mafia are in the game, if it seems like the host hasn't said, and it seems like other people aren't bringing it up. If I were scum, I would prefer that the topic is never, EVER raised. The only scum agenda there could be behind the post I made is "try to look town, by damaging the scum agenda." But it's TOO damaging to the scum agenda, for how much town cred is bought by it. Net-negative, for any scum player to make that post. Only makes sense for town. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 21 2018 07:59 Mocsta wrote: This monologue is pointless - as both of you are debating YOUR values on how to play the game. Not what Darthfoley is actually doing with the roleplay. What is that even supposed to mean? He's not doing anything with the roleplay. Roleplay doesn't DO anything. The discussion is of whether the use of roleplay is scum-indicative or town-indicative. Kelsier thought scum would be more likely to "hide" by making a persona. I asked how the persona is supposed to help him hide, when I think the opposite is actually true, and that it draws attention. And when I say that it's something I've seen from Town but not from Scum, that has nothing to do with my "values on how to play the game." It's just real-world, lived experience. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
Exo and darthfoley. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 08:55 Mocsta wrote: NK is playing filler this cycle, while chastising other players for being illogical. I don't chastize other players for being illogical. I point out when they are being illogical, which allows other players to judge whether they should be scumread for it. And if they're town, then by pointing out when they are being illogical, it affords them the opportunity to correct it. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 21 2018 09:01 Mocsta wrote: Know this. Im vig, and if you arent lynched Day1. You still wont be around Day2. lol, right, right. You're the Vigilante, and the scum do not have a roleblocker. Since you've already informed us that the scum don't have a roleblocker, could you please go ahead and tell us which roles they DO have? Would it be safe to assume they have...a Vigilante?  | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 21 2018 09:03 Holyflare wrote: Also post game when I have some time at a computer I am going to be a sad person and systematically dismantle noobking's "logic" posts if he is town because they are so deeply flawed. You will fail. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 21 2018 09:15 MoosyDoosy wrote: Noobking who is scum and who you vote. Simple words No one knows who is scum except for the scum. I have my vote on disformation. It's a good place for a vote. Another good place for a vote is ykl. This has not changed. I would like to see rsoul's answer to my question, before trying to determine whether Alakaslam is a good place for a vote. I could also get behind a PL of Holyflare or Rels, in this and every subsequent game I will ever play here. I do not think the 3 votes against Exo are well-reasoned. I do not think the 2 votes against Kelsier are well-reasoned. I do not think the 6 votes against MoosyDoosy are legal. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
So let's all just hope you're not a town vigilante. Because if you are, you've done a very stupid thing. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 21 2018 09:47 Conversion wrote: I mean a scum player can make that post thinking that townies would never make that post so that’s not a good reason? Also I am town and I literally didn’t give a shit about the number of mafia and I don’t see why other town would as well Well, you'd understand if you were better at the game, I guess. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 21 2018 09:53 Conversion wrote: funny you mention skill because if you’re town you’re the one getting scum read, not me but you’re scum and it’s really cute that you try to quantify skill at a forum mafia game as literally no one thinks you’re good LOL lol, sure buddy. I'm not being scumread by a significant number of players. I'm not in the Noose right now, the number of votes on me are fewer than will be had by the eventual lynch, and there's a lot of time left in the Phase. If the scum team isn't terrified of me yet, they WILL be. In all the years I've played this game, and in all the dozens of times I've played this game, I have still never ONCE been end-gamed as Town. If I'm Town, and the scum won, then I HAD to have been dead. The scum team MUST eliminate me themselves, or get the town to do it for them, because if I'm left alive, the mafia win percentage falls to ZERO. As another player once put it, the only person who figures out the scum roster faster than I do, is the narrator. It has also been more than four YEARS since any town team I was on accidentally mislynched or vig-shot me, and then managed to win without my help. It's never happened here. Town won when the scum team failed to kill me, and town won after the scum team night-killed me, but the one time I was mislynched, is my only Town loss here. (I voted against only two players in that game, and both were scum, but even after I was mislynched, Town didn't follow my votes quickly enough to win the game without me.) If there are any players in this game more experienced than I am, there aren't many. And I expect there are none who could match my winning percentage. But keep on running your mouth. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 21 2018 10:06 Mocsta wrote: Why aren't you assuming im mafia. Why should I assume you're mafia? On March 21 2018 10:06 Mocsta wrote: You dont like my tictock posts. I am calling you mafia. You have caught me with TMI. Vote me . No thanks. Me not liking your tictock posts doesn't preclude you from being town. You being wrong about my allegiance doesn't preclude you from being town. You telling us the mafia doesn't have a roleblocker doesn't look like "TMI" it just looks like ignorance. A literal "scum claim" like that is rare enough to be disregarded as "too scummy to be scum." Town can be ignorant. You can be ignorant. You can be town. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 21 2018 10:17 darthfoley wrote: Wow dude, you're really good. People like you are what's going to make #TLMafiaGreatAgain. After all, there is WAY too much dick measuring and toxicity going on around here. If you say so. But I never said there was too much dick measuring or toxicity going on around here. That was other people saying that. I said there was too much apathy going on around here. 4 signups out of 13 deciding not to play is pretty pitiful. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 21 2018 10:24 Mocsta wrote: DF, I preferred you in character. Responding to that chatter is only satisfying NK agenda to avoid having to scum-hunt. NK says "disfo/ykl are good targets to pressure" but at no points applies, said pressure. Of COURSE I have applied said pressure. What more would you expect me to do, to apply said pressure? I have my vote on one of them. I've said they are both good places for additional votes. The one I don't have my vote on, I nevertheless engaged in a line of questioning, but the player was shielded from pressure by rsoul, and the line of questioning actually INTERFERED with by Holyflare. I have then gone on to discuss more players with other players, and ask more questions of other players. All the while, EIGHT players aren't even VOTING. At least a couple of them have not made a post yet at all. It is preposterous to try and pretend that I am not doing *more* than my share of ensuring there will be useful content to look at from this Phase. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 21 2018 10:35 MoosyDoosy wrote: Actually scrap that. Tictock's post is complete garbage like Mocsta's earlier post on me. Both have no idea what the point of my activity at the start of the game was and why my list is the way it is. Well I knew what the point of your activity at the start of the game was, and why your list was the way it was. But your list is too large to really have much value. Even excluding myself and Slam, your lynch pool would be 6 players. There has always been at least one bad guy, in the people who react? So you're sure there's a bad guy in those 6 players? Not real handy. Unless there are 3 or fewer bad guys in the game, our odds of hitting one at random are already better than 1 in 6. On March 21 2018 10:53 MoosyDoosy wrote: Now if I WERE to employ OMGUS instead of my bait strategy it would be this: ##Unvote ##Vote: Mocsta ##Unvote ##Vote: Tictock Saying what would happen if you went OMGUS instead doesn't require that you actually go to the voting thread and DO it. If someone were to take a vote off of disformation, then Exo would have gone into the Noose at that point. So why would you be backing off of him to demonstrate what your OMGUS votes would look like, and alleviate pressure on what HAD been your apparent target? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 21 2018 10:35 Mocsta wrote: I have no desire to argue with a scum read. Its pointless for the spectators. It's hugely important for the spectators, if you actually have ANY designs on seeing me lynched. Players get lynched and not lynched based on what spectators think of the arguments between them. On March 21 2018 10:35 Mocsta wrote: The only comment I will make is that #652 reads like a classic scum "what have i done wrong" post. lol, oh no no no no no. By no means did I ask "what have I done wrong?" I know there is not something I've done wrong. I instead only listed things I've done that contribute to seeing my targets receive pressure, and things I've done that contribute to an atmosphere consistent with a town victory. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 10:51 Mocsta wrote: I cant speak for others, but my opinion is 2-fold. (1) Most trolling mafia dont have the balls to keep it up for an entire cycle. At some point there is a need to survive. I dont know Moosy well enough to understand if this tell applies, but, i can give benefit of the doubt for 1 cycle. (2) I am expecting between 4 and 5 mafia. Even if Moosy was mafia, i think there is enough content this Day1 to have a successful lynch outside moosy. Your 2nd point is seriously ludicrous. Even if Moosy was Mafia, you think there's enough content in Day ONE to have a successful lynch on someone else? Why would a town player ever believe this? The odds of a successful Day 1 lynch are ALWAYS LOW. And any time a scum player is lynched on Day 1, it's always going to be their own fault, and not the result of some widespread super-sleuthing from the town players. Remember that time when a scum player was lynched on Day 1, not because they did something wrong, but because the town at large just played and cooperated so well together that the odds of a successful lynch actually tilted in their favor? No, neither does anyone else. In the history of ever. Even if a town player had this kind of confidence (which they should not), they still should not speak of it. But certainly a mafia player would have reason to speak of it. It will decelerate discussion, and keep players from thinking for themselves. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 11:03 MoosyDoosy wrote: Noobking goes from setup to picking at what other people are saying which is exactly what he did when I was scum with him last game. Right. So how is that supposed to be alignment-indicative? I started out the last game exactly like this one. And in that game, there was no reason to start out doing anything but playing precisely as I would play, if Town. And I was almost universally townread on Day 1. So...yeahhhh | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 11:08 Tictock wrote: Lol, you literally answered your own question, ya know? You are not using the same argument as Kelsier at all. He is saying that it would be natural for scum to *want* to behave that way. Not that they might do it for WIFOM purposes that basically amount to "everyone who has done this was town, so I'll do it as scum...and everyone will think I'm town!" And I disagree that it is natural for scum to *want* to behave that way. And using the WIFOM approach you mention would be needlessly dangerous, unless DF expects he's GOING to quickly be scumread. If he doesn't think he's GOING to quickly be scumread by multiple players, then there's no need to employ the dangerous WIFOM tactic in the hopes of it earning him townleans. There's a REASON why scum players hadn't done it before. When scum players have consistently avoided doing something, then the benefit of "people wouldn't expect a scum player to do this" has to carefully be weighed against WHY scum players aren't expected to do it. I think the trade-off is bad. I think most scum players would realize the trade-off is bad. And hence, I think it is mildly town-indicative behavior. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 11:18 Mocsta wrote: tictock #676 its not really something important. No one accused me of not being town. moose #673 im confused (in a pleasant way i suppose). I thought you were saying prior that slam/n00b are town (or you will at least mirror their vote). what you wrote indicates suspicion against both players (in particular compared to last game). If you couldn't already tell that by "sheeping us" he meant sheeping votes against us, and not sheeping our cases against other players, then you CERTAINLY should have been able to tell that from the discussion that followed. When you put a restriction on how many posts you could make, did you also put a restriction on how many posts you would READ? Also, using Post #'s instead of simply quoting the post is super-annoying. If you're Town, could you stop doing that? There's a reason everyone does it the other way. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 11:45 Mocsta wrote: please illuminate for me what pressure ykl and disfo received that was prompted by you lol, nearly ALL of the pressure ykl received was prompted by me. It is not my fault that he was protected by two other players, and then LEFT. The game structure only allows for me to generate so much pressure on another player, you know? I've done what I can, and it's a lot more than the many players who are neither driving discussion nor commenting on discussion nor even VOTING. On March 21 2018 11:45 Mocsta wrote: ps. 5 players of europe is going to wake up soon, so expect that # to increase. Oh, I do NOT expect that number to increase. Not if those players are competent. I am always a terrible early lynch candidate, which is why I've only been lynched Day 1 ONE time. Ever. And no, I wasn't scum. And no, the town did not manage to win without me. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 21 2018 11:58 Mocsta wrote: Cool story bruh, From 6 weeks ago. I hope you don't think that's supposed to be contrary evidence? I can confidently expect that mderg was a fuckup in that game. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 12:19 Mocsta wrote: Help me out of that comfort zone by working together! Pick your poison please: I pick almost all of them, then. #1 - Slam After making this post: On March 21 2018 08:38 n00bKing wrote: Step 1) I notice that Alakaslam doesn't feel quite the same to me as in the previous game. It seems like his posts are an attempt to artificially recreate his play from the previous game, instead of an authentic repeat of his play from the previous game. Step 2) rsoul then makes almost the exact same observation. Step 3) I ask rsoul if she can elaborate on the difference between his play in the two games, so that I can tell if there's any sort of real substantiation that I can investigate, or if she's stuck in the same boat I am (with nothing better to explain the difference than "feelz.") Unfortunately it sounded like she's stuck in the same boat I am. I then asked this of rsoul: On March 21 2018 08:44 n00bKing wrote: Okay...soo....if people aren't going to get your slam read, then what keeps your vote on him from being wasted? Let's say we did get additional votes on Alakaslam. Is his reaction to the added pressure likely to help you further a read on him? Or give you anything you CAN use to convince others? Or would he just post more youtube videos, regardless of alignment, and everyone shrugs and says they can't get a read on him because he's not doing anything? Hers is the opinion on that question that I am the most interested in, partly because she's the player voting against him, but also because I think it's fair to say that she has posed herself as something of an "Alakaslam whisperer" over the past two games. Nevertheless, I would gladly hear opinions on that from anyone. Can you expect alignment-indicative reactions when he is pressured, or do you simply have to make a decision of "lynch him or not" because all you're ever going to get is more youtube videos? #2 - Moosy His game-opening tactic is one I've seen him use as Town before (so I let him go ahead and do it) but as I've said, I think it hasn't yielded much of anything he can use, this time. You can put me on the "save Moosy for later" train. Partly because he's committed at least six rules violations so far, and if he keeps doing it, he'll just get himself mod-killed. And also because I seriously doubt his ability to keep me in uncertainty about his alignment for the long-term. I disagree that he's a good N1 vig target, because he will usually respond to posts, regardless of alignment. You may sometimes get trolling, obstinance, or uncooperativeness, but you'll get answers to your questions. He'll (eventually) take positions, make and move votes, explain his motivations, etc. And when you start seeing flips, you can gain a lot of context on which team he's playing for. Can't say any of that about someone like Fecalfeast or Alakaslam (so far). #3 - Exo vs Kelsier I think this was a big fat nothing. While it was going on, I just kept waiting for Kelsier to realize it was mostly just a misunderstanding, and move on to something else. This doesn't guarantee it was "T vs T" but I think that's likely. Nothing in the posts from either player has really made me uneasy. Hopefully whenever raynpelikoneet returns, we'll get some thoughts on things that have happened SINCE that exchange, as it was the focus of a lot of his filter. #4 - Darthfoley Obviously glad to be seeing less Chester Campbell, as the game goes on. Continue to think invoking the character is on the townier side of null. The HARDCORE waffling on Exo looks like a reasonable thought progression to me, and I like that it ends up in the place I feel like it ought to. So, no interest in making DF a lynch target at this time. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 12:41 darthfoley wrote: LoL. Literally every mafia caught ever fucked up in some way because they were lynched or vigi shot. What a meaningless semantics to prove your e-peen. I don't think I can bring myself to believe that you genuinely can't tell the difference between what I said, and "literally every mafia caught ever fucked up in some way." A scum player who gets lynched on D1 probably fucked up big, and their lynch is probably on them, and not creditable to super-awesome town play. A scum lynch on D1 is already statistically improbable, and then made all the more unlikely by the fact that (unlike most town players) they will have teammates who know they are on the team, and will actively work to keep them out of the Noose. A red flip on D1 should never be the expectation, and no one should be overly disappointed when it doesn't come. Therefore, when Mocsta says that even if Moosy is scum, there should be enough D1 content here to still lynch someone ELSE successfully too, that is really, really weird. But I could envision the mafia trying to lull the town into a false sense of security that "everything is going cool...you don't need to ask more questions....you don't need to do more thinking....we've got all this content...things are great...everyone just sit back and relax." The motivation for a TOWN player to say it? I dunno man, you tell me. I don't see it. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 13:07 Mocsta wrote: rsoultin is capable of responding herself; I just have one tidbit to add. I get the yawn comment, but I think its being looked at in isolation to the 3rd paragraph which discusses NK first post. Like, I feel that read is somewhat an association read with NK flipping scum (i.e. rsoultin hesistant to throw shade on NK because hes scum-buddy... cos i cant see why a scum!rsoultin would hesitate to do it to a town!NK) Scum players always have reason to hesitate to throw shade on Town players. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 13:12 Mocsta wrote: #711 n00bking Its awesome you approached all topics; however, I find this to be a superficial summary. Maybe thats poor interpretation by me, but i started reading with excitement, and ended reading with disappointment. It's Day 1. Go find me the post where someone said something super exciting and compelling. That's not how this works. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 13:18 darthfoley wrote: I agree that it is a weird thing to point out and one that I don't like. IMO if you think moosy is mafia, you vote to lynch him. You don't "wait and see" if you truly believe he's mafia tbh. That's fine. The Moosy-specific part isn't really the one that jumps out to me though. It's the confidence that the D1 lynch would still be successful even if we passed over one bad guy to find another. No, we're probably gonna lynch a town player on D1. The game mechanics assume that we will lynch a town player on D1. So the notion that Day 1 has already given us everything we need to make a correct D1 lynch (and the unspoken implication that the town could afford to take the rest of the Phase off) is what rubs me the wrong way. (It probably doesn't help that I know his vote is on a town player.) | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 13:30 Alakaslam wrote: List post more often scum than not though. Careful calling them good m8 Yeah. I don't think I've ever made a "most trusted to least trusted" list, as Town. Only as scum, and only when I was really motivated to get other players to follow suit. And if I'm Town, I am probably never going to ask you who you've got firmly stuck in your "townpile." I don't need to know who your strongest townreads are, just who your scumreads are. And you don't need to know about my strongest townreads either. But if I'm scum? Yeah, THEN I want to know who is in your townpile. THEN I want to know who EVERYone has in their townpile. If I'm scum, I'd like to see a list post from everybody. I might even want to see that badly enough to post one myself. Unfortunately, on THIS site, those types of list posts are a mistake made SO frequently by town players, that you can't really scumread anyone for doing it. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 16:35 Mocsta wrote: I dont think jt means you are town Its more a comment on vivax logic in my opiniin Yes. Has nothing to do with how Vivax is playing (or what allegiance he might be) in this particular game. Just "if I'm thinking like Vivax would think, then I'm probably wrong." | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 15:57 Mocsta wrote: anyways, sorry slam i had enough for today, and already 10 pages of filter for ppl to wake up to & i dont want to add anymore. my vote is sticking with n00bking and i hope yours it too! Well, there's a problem with you hoping his vote sticks with me. It's not on me, and never has been. | ||
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n00bKing
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Regardless of what happens for the rest of the game, signing up was worth it just to see this post: On March 21 2018 14:09 Alakaslam wrote: What’s also sucks is I am a terrible communicator. Like I can see that the white truck doesn’t have a brake booster problem, but a master cylinder problem but I’m so inarticulate (and not a mechanic) that I actually convinced our mechanic he was right So now the truck has a new brake booster and a newer master cylinder :3 | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 16:40 Vivax wrote: You are doing a good job at making me want to lynch you. Huh? It wasn't even me saying it. I'm just agreeing with Mocsta about what Kelsier meant. I'm facilitating understanding between players, so votes will only be cast for good reasons. (Hint: There aren't good reasons for voting against Kelsier) | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 14:34 Alakaslam wrote: False. Since I know what actually happened, ##Vote: rsoultin I have realized she knows better. She has shadowed me in games and has played with me in many more. Eh. Perfectly happy to help you keep an eye on her, but high-activity players are poor D1 lynches. I expect her to post, I expect her to respond to people who make an effort to engage her, and I expect to be able to read her with a lot more confidence as time goes on. As much as I disagreed with her initial set of musings, I can't support a D1 lynch of rsoul. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 16:49 rsoultin wrote: @df My main reason I want to lynch noob is because his posts bore me. The first post I didn't like I already said I'm not sure makes him scum. First post was actually impossible for me to make as anything but town. Again, if I were scum, I would be hoping that topic never, ever gets raised at all. On March 21 2018 16:49 rsoultin wrote: I don't think townreading him for arrogance makes sense though. We saw that last game plenty. Completely agree. I cannot be townread for arrogance. That aspect of my game never goes away. On March 21 2018 16:49 rsoultin wrote: But what bugs me a lot and what makes me still want to keep him on the table is this I agree with her on slam but don't share any of her other reads. And I would have been on the same page as her (other than hf) last game if town. If this is actually town nk here I have no earthly clue how our reads/methods would ever align that much lol >< This nk reads very similar to the nk who couldn't stop harping on how antitown HF was last game. It's like a scummy vs towny behaviour checklist rather than how I get my reads. Yes, a "scummy vs towny behavior checklist" is the perfect way to describe it. I have solved games before, using a literal (and physical, pen and paper) scummy vs towny behavior checklist. Where I went through each players' posts, identified each one as pro, con, or neutral, then tabulated the results, and...voila. The remaining players with the most "cons" were the remaining scum players. It doesn't matter to me if our "methods" don't line up, as long as I understand your thinking, and understand the way you've told me that you've used your methods. Your "methods" in the previous game might not have matched the ones I'd have used, but the conclusions (and the rationale used to arrive at them) all made sense, all the time (so long as the conversation had nothing to do with Holyflare). I'm not a person who has any trouble at all with following and understanding another way of thinking about something, even if I may not agree with it. If you're Town in this game, I expect to eventually be able to follow and understand the way you've formed your opinions, even if I may not agree with them. (This has already begun, in fact, just since your return.) On March 21 2018 16:49 rsoultin wrote: Also! Right, nk asked. I'm trying to lynch scum and I'm arrogant enough to believe that's possible d1 before night actions. K...how you gonna get him lynched, by saying that you don't expect other people to see what your read is based off of? I don't feel like you really care whether he is lynched or not (despite you voting against him, AND despite you saying you like to keep him around when he's Town.) Nor do I feel like you really care whether I am lynched or not. Looks a lot like the "anyone who isn't on our roster" attitude scum teams would normally take toward the Day 1 Noose. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 16:50 Vivax wrote: No you literally took Kelsiers words and turned them into other words that mean something else entirely all for the sake of finding a perspective where he said that as town. Seriously do not know what other interpretation of his words could be considered, other than the one I posted. I'll be way way surprised, if he tells us that wasn't what he meant. On March 21 2018 16:50 Vivax wrote: I am 99 % sure you are town cause no mafia would be so idiotically suicidal to do that but I might spite lynch you for that regardless, cause all you're doing is hampering me when I just found mafia. lol, oh god, not another one. You "just found mafia" did you? Stone lock, can't miss red flip right there, huh? Just like HF is gonna take the "free scum?" Just like Mocsta and his assertion that even if Moosy is scum and we pass him over anyway, there's still enough D1 content to lynch successfully anyway??! If you're town, whichever scum read you are MOST confident in, is PROBABLY incorrect. Since I'm town, whichever scum read I am MOST confident in, is PROBABLY incorrect. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 16:54 ykl wrote: how is someone supposed to answer this: Without immediately devolving into a shitflinging fest that contributes nothing? Maybe we'll find out, as soon as you answer it? | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 17:02 rsoultin wrote: Help me understand how you and I could possibly have been on the same page last game had you been town if this is an example of your town game.. Because we WERE on the same page last game. lol When playing scum, I am never unaware of what the town me would be thinking and feeling. And I deviate from it only if furthering or protecting the scum agenda has taken precedence over "looking and acting precisely as I would while town" for that moment. You and I consistently held (and stated) the same opinions in that game, on one issue after another. The only subject on which you and town me differed was Holyflare. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 17:40 Vivax wrote: Let me reiterate: Kelsier said that he was probably on the wrong track since he was thinking the same way I did about mocstas post. This is a literally impossible statement to make without a mindset where I am lock town, cause as mafia I could have other reasons other than being bad for commenting about that post in the way I did. We can argue this to death but if you don't see it like I do, I can't help you. And mocsta explained to you that it isn't about that post or even this game. It's just about what he called "Vivax logic" in general. That's how it reads to me as well. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 17:40 ykl wrote: Fine, if you want to be that way: Why are you voting for disformation instead of me when you're clearly scumreading both of us? I didn't see what the case on disformation was that led a straight vote. Are you happy now. That does not answer the question. Which vote was I supposed to follow "instead?" Why is the word "instead" in your post? | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 17:48 Koshi wrote: I dont want to lynch noobking except when Slam gives the go. Then I will want to lynch him with the heat of a thousand suns. Like, I don't understand any of what he said there, about "passive voice." But sure, when he gives the go....thousand suns. Also, you are mostly still killing it, this game. So keep up the good work. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 17:42 rsoultin wrote: -flicks noob- if you're trying to 'understand' me, the answer to your question about slam is already in the post you just quoted from So...the answer to my question of "how do you get him lynched, while saying that other people won't see what you're scumreading him for?" is...what, this? "Doesn't mean he can't be lynched for other reasons that I might find less compelling but others like." Otherwise, no, I don't see how you expect to get him lynched, by doing what you're doing. Which is why I said that it doesn't really seem like you care whether he's the lynch. (Or whether I am. Or who it is.) On March 21 2018 17:42 rsoultin wrote: Plus you simultaneously say You don't care who gets lynched, must be scum! And Anyone who is certain of who they're lynching is bad because they're probably wrong Makes any earthly sense. It's like...stop being bad. But don't stop too much because townies are bad, and not being bad makes people scum. How does that even make sense? Yeah, people who don't care who get lynched are more likely to be scum. And yeah, people who are certain they've got the right D1 lynch are bad/dumb, because they're probably wrong. Town players should care who the lynch is, and try to get their preferred target into the Noose. And then they should expect to be wrong, and see that player flip Town. Because both the math AND the game mechanics work together to give you a Day 1 mislynch. And unless someone on the scum team seriously BOTCHES the Phase, a mislynch is exactly what you'll get. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 18:01 rsoultin wrote: Noob is infuriating regardless of his alignment. It's like talking to a scolding school teacher. Awesome. I have a friend who is actively trying to get me to take a teaching position at her school. Sounds like I've got what it takes! | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 18:06 KelsierSC wrote: I really like noobking , I can actually understand what he writes which elevates him above half the game. I have no reason to lynch him other than HF says he is playing like some other scum game. I don't like using that argument and I enjoy his posting so not lynching. I think there is a bit of a gang up here on NK and I don't like it, definitely scum in the people voting him. I wouldn't want to bet on there being more than one scum player in the votes on me. But I *would* bet that all 3 players voting against disformation are town. And yet no suspicious players have joined us. That is...interesting to me. On March 21 2018 18:06 KelsierSC wrote: Slam you took up an entire page with unintelligible nonsense. Surely did. But does that tell you which team he's on? Remind me, have you had any thoughts on ykl? I can't find the town-sounding post, in his filter. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 18:20 rsoultin wrote: of course, there's more mafia in the game even if I'm right on slam (and I think I probably am) I don't have any context on whether it's suspicious for Alakaslam to think that "lazy mafia" are pushing him early game, instead of saving him to be mislynched late game. I DO find it odd that he so confidently named me town in this game. When people voting against me (like HF and Moosy) say they're doing so on the basis that I'm playing the same as the last game. They're right, I'm playing the same as the last game, because I just played my town game for 95% of the last game. HF doesn't seem to know anything about my Town game, and doesn't care. He's just "blah blah, same as other game, blah." Yet while I AGREE with the people voting against me that I'm playing the same as the last game, Alakaslam correctly labels me Town in this game, after all his "classic scum m8" crap from the previous game. Now yes, I pushed him off of his scumread on me in the prior game, and even had him voting against MY lynch target, eventually. But even so, the speed and accuracy of his townread on me here is cause for pause. However, I can't help you lynch him, cuz then he'll OMGUS me, and then once Slam gives the go-ahead, Koshi will lynch me with the heat of a thousand suns. And then I flip town, and people are sad. :D (In all seriousness, Slam is probably fine as a fallback option, with the likes of Rels. From your recent "remove from the lynch pool" list, the only one I disagree with is Rels. I would add to that "remove from the lynch pool" list by putting Tictock in it. I don't have any interest in lynching him. Oh, and me! I should be removed from it too. hehe. I also am not too excited about lynching Conversion, though he's been almost entirely useless, it seems. I can at least hope that he might be useful later. I can't hold out much hope for that in the case of like...Fecalfeast.) | ||
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n00bKing
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How close to the deadline was it, when he "didn't want to start a counter wagon" in that first post? We're still more than 12 hours from the deadline, here. If it was no nearer the deadline than that, I guess you could have something there. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 21 2018 18:50 rsoultin wrote: @NK, don't agree on conv Which part? Do you mean I shouldn't hope for him to be helpful later? Or something else? | ||
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On March 21 2018 18:54 Vivax wrote: Some things are better kept a mistery, N00bking. This don't seem to be one of those things. | ||
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On March 22 2018 04:45 Holyflare wrote: Nk up for lynch, kelsier is vivax's scum read for tmi but he's on exo. Disfo up for lynch, vivax switches to kelsier the next leading wagon now. Coincidence? It was always super-strange that Vivax had his singleton vote on Exo instead of putting a 3rd vote on Kelsier, when he had designated Kelsier as "caught scum." Can you explain why a scum Vivax would rather see me lynched than Kelsier? | ||
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On March 21 2018 19:33 Holyflare wrote: Who isn't reading the thread? This guy ^. Why is slam scummy for doing this when I can name 3 other people off the top of my head that have just done the exact same thing. Koshi, rsoultin just now, myself? If three other people can see it and two of those are ok and the other one is confirmed mafia siding town then what's different about slam seeing the same thing? wat No one else did "the exact same thing." I said the SPEED and accuracy was concerning. There definitely was not the same speed with someone like yourself or rsoul. It's like the first thing Alakaslam did, once he said he'd read his role PM. Also, I find it funny that you accuse me of not reading the thread, and then, 2 pages later, you admit that you are actually not reading the thread. | ||
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On March 22 2018 05:27 Holyflare wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/529865-newbie-student-mafia-xxviii?user=Mocsta&view=all What alignment was he in this game? | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 22 2018 01:48 disformation wrote: anecdotal fun stuff: last time i saw someone blatantly drunk posting that was a scum!rels, who was pushing a town!disfo. Yeah. I don't feel as though I like Mocsta as a lynch for today. But I do HATE the "drunken typos" stuff. It would be a lot worse if he was one of the vote leaders though. I don't really know why scum Mocsta would feel the need to pull that out of the hat right now. | ||
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On March 22 2018 05:03 Holyflare wrote: My thought when I made it was a disfo/vivax team but that's going way on the back burner after blue claim. Do you not think Vivax is scummy independent of disfo's situation? I obviously don't like either of the primary scumreads we've had from Vivax in this game. (Exo & Kelsier) | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 20 2018 19:48 Palmar wrote: I'm going with a rather strict "vote on a case" policy this game On March 22 2018 05:43 Palmar wrote: Throwing down a vote on disfo just so I get a vote out there. I don't remember why I thought he could be mafia but I don't really care. *thumbs up* | ||
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On March 22 2018 05:52 disformation wrote: yo if you are town I'm gonna be somewhat pissed at you. can you at least explain your vote ffs? Koshi, Kelsier and I all voted against you for the same reason. I feel like this has been explained to you repeatedly. The "thumbs up" is not support for Palmar's vote against you. Rather it mocks the gross inconsistency in the two posts I quoted. | ||
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n00bKing
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Accusations from the active players are all over the map, with singleton votes against Rels, Mocsta, and Conversion. With 2 hours left in the Phase, at what point do we consider a strong consolidation on sicklucker? He was just as likely to be scum as anyone else, when the game began. And as I've mentioned previously, an afk player who shows up to the game as scum but can't really be bothered to properly "catch up" has a lot more value to his scum team than an afk town player who shows up and can't be bothered to catch up. | ||
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On March 22 2018 05:58 disformation wrote: nope you didn't. koshi had a meta read of "helpful disfo is scum". ksc cause I was "softdefending" md. you didn't say jack at all. sry bout the plammar thing though. mb. Go into Kelsier's filter and read Post 442. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 22 2018 06:06 disformation wrote: shitty host wifom: there just was a post in the replacement thread by calix. That's not alignment-indicative though, right? And if it is, I think it supports a sicklucker lynch, rather than opposing one. | ||
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On March 22 2018 06:11 rsoultin wrote: Why so hell-bent on lynchig disinfo? There are potentially other ways to check rather than just let mafia shoot/not shoot him. Like what? I really only see Role Cop, and even that won't help, if he's legitimately a mafia Veteran. | ||
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On March 22 2018 06:12 disformation wrote: *cough* *cough* sl is pure 50/50 at this point. or 25/75 with 5 scum and 20/80 with 4 scum I guess. And I know I'm 100% to flip Town. And I think Kelsier is very very likely to flip Town, so I'll do anything short of sticking my own neck in the Noose, to keep his out of it. Again, we have singleton votes on: Alakaslam, rsoul, mocsta, Rels, and Conversion. Kelsier now saying DF is a good lynch. Where is a strong enough town-guided consensus going to land, besides onto sicklucker? | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote: sicklucker Starting to look like the only proper play. | ||
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On March 22 2018 06:36 Fecalfeast wrote: This is my only break til deadline and i have no idea what's going on... can we lynch vivax Would lynch Vivax. Would lynch ykl. | ||
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On March 22 2018 07:17 rsoultin wrote: More comfortable lynching conversion than df, so there's that. Same, if that's what it comes down to. This Coagulation guy looks like a pretty good lynch, though? ##Unvote sicklucker ##Vote: Coagulation I have returned and am caught up, and will be reading along. But will only be able to post in the moments of greatest need. | ||
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On March 22 2018 07:48 rsoultin wrote: whoa ykl ghost vote I'll say ghost vote NAI, ykl only scummy for other reasons. Would still like to have lynched him, or Vivax, or Coagulation. Would lynch Rels over any of Conversion/DF/Kelsier I suppose. | ||
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On March 22 2018 07:55 KelsierSC wrote: noobking move your vote ##Unvote ##Vote: Rels | ||
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On March 22 2018 07:58 Rels wrote: yep. But more than that, rsoul attitude is not solving the game. She's 100% scum. Being mean to the newbie make no sense. I didn't see anyone comment on this post from Rels. Was he just mixing up players, here? Or has Exo played here little enough that Rels could conceivably think of him (and not ykl) as "the newbie?" Because it was Exo she was mean to, and not ykl. | ||
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I'll slip that you won't be shot 2nite, too. Assuming you're also Town, I think we're both likely to survive the night on the basis of there being just enough swirling suspicion for the scum to think we can be lynched. A more interesting question from you would have been to ask Holyflare why he seems to imply that HE will be around to see how you handle the future. Kelsier is also very optimistic about living to see Day 2: On March 22 2018 08:08 KelsierSC wrote: Yeh I'm taking the day off mafia tomorrow and going to look with fresh eyes on Friday. He won't be able to look with fresh eyes on Friday, if he's killed on Thursday (in his time zone). But he may also feel like he's potential lynchbait. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 22 2018 08:48 Mocsta wrote: I dont care. it might not be towny to you, but you have not communicated why its scummy. At the time you made your longer "last will" post, I didn't feel like you were in too much jeopardy of being the lynch. Looking back, there *was* legitimate reason for you to be worried. So that works in your favor. Still, by the time of your shorter "last words" post, you were definitely not in danger, so to me, it's a post that reeks of insincerity. I felt the same way about your drunken typos, as you could probably tell. These are not very strong reasons to scumread you though, so with you being one of the active players, I wasn't interested in shoving you into a Noose, so I broke what (at the time) was a tie by shoving Rels instead. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 22 2018 20:01 Holyflare wrote: She was rude to ykl. Asked him if he couldn't post in thread or something. Ok, I'll check back and look for that. I mostly remembered her being (more) rude to Exo. Though I can understand her frustration with him. lol | ||
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On March 22 2018 09:41 Tictock wrote: Skimmed through EoD and it looks like most people went pretty pants on head. I don’t even understand why Rels got lynched? All I saw was Rsoul shouting “lynch Rels” without mentioning whatever scummy thing he did that made her switch from her earlier “Rels is a bad D1 lynch” stance. I also noticed Noobking wasting his vote on a totally null slot that got replaced and take no stances on the other wagons. Thank goodness you didn't have a wasted singleton vote on me, at EoD. Oh, right. Rels got lynched because we allowed ourselves to be in a position where one of those wagons HAD to be, instead of taking the ABC play of consolidating on the AFK (and if we could rewind and lynch the AFK instead, I guess we probably should, huh?) Also, lol @ "taking no stance on other wagons." I broke a tie to protect darthfoley from being lynched, and Rels remained the lynch from the moment I did that, until EoD. Killing Rels isn't something to hang my hat on, but it pretty well protects me from your criticism of "taking no stances" on the wagons. | ||
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On March 22 2018 10:34 Vivax wrote: Should I ever have a reason to remove ExO or Kelsier from my scumreads, I'll have Palmar take their place. I could just add him but that list would be one man too long for my taste. It might be fine if he's a dwarf. What's a dwarf, in this context? | ||
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On March 22 2018 18:48 Palmar wrote: I love how it took less than 1 page of mocsta's 7 page filter for him to drop the stupid post restriction :D More town-indicative than the opposite, I would say, if I needed to pick one way or the other. Agree/disagree? | ||
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On March 22 2018 20:07 n00bKing wrote: Ok, I'll check back and look for that. I mostly remembered her being (more) rude to Exo. Though I can understand her frustration with him. lol 1) Why is rsoul's filter 8 pages already? argh! Is she still this spammy as scum? (I would assume yes, but can't hurt to check.) 2) Is this the post you mean? On March 22 2018 07:50 rsoultin wrote: Took you four minutes to formulate this sentence did it? I read that more as being suspicious of him taking a long time to craft a "decision post" about where to vote, instead of reading it as rudeness about "are you too dumb to make sentences?" | ||
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On March 22 2018 18:10 Palmar wrote: My gut says that veteran is both a stupid and weird claim for mafia to make. It's also one of those types of claims that bad townies feel really comfortable revealing, because they don't understand the role of a veteran in the game. Thus if I was forced to bet, I'd bet town on disfo. That doesn't make it the wrong play to lynch him. He fucked up and should be lynched, and of course there's very much a possibility he's just mafia fakeclaiming a vet. We should not forget the possibility that he is mafia TRUEclaming vet. There's nothing stopping the mafia from having a vet, so that's something that makes it a little less attractive for having a Role Cop check him. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 22 2018 18:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: "Dumbtell" about setup. In neither case are those dumbtells. They're just good questions to have answers to. And in the example from this game, a question the mafia would NOT want us to have an answer to. On March 22 2018 18:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also then there is the shit where he forgets all his scumreads and votes for an afk person I made clear who I was interested in lynching. Those targets were not up for lynch at EoD, the votes just weren't there. Taking a stab in the dark at Rels (when he at least had begun playing, and showed enough effort to read/skim the majority of the game) instead of taking the paint-by-numbers play of consolidating onto sicklucker IS NOT what I think we should have done, and I made THAT clear as well. But consolidation onto the afk didn't happen, and taking the stab at Rels was the nearest thing to it, so that's what I did, to ensure that it would take a DEDICATED last-minute push for anyone to get darthfoley into the Noose. Because I thought he was obviously a subpar lynch, and if he got the Noose anyway, I wanted to be able to see whose fault it was. With regard to questioning ykl about his word selection: The thing you SHOULD have noticed is that he DOESN'T want to answer me. When we had the first exchange about his double-usage of the word "instead" I asked him if he was nervous about something, because his word selection indicated to me that I was making him nervous, or uncomfortable. To his credit, he ADMITTED to being nervous, instead of following up his discomfort by lying about it to me. The next time I questioned him about his word choice, he failed to answer, and left. When I brought it up again later, he answered with a question that didn't give me an answer to my question. I immediately pointed out that he didn't answer the question and he left again. When comparing this to my questioning of HF about his word choice in the previous game, yes, they do look the same, and SHOULD look the same. Because at that stage in that game, I felt free to simply question HF in exactly the same manner I would if I had been Town. Did I have mafia motivation for wanting his lynch? Yes. Did that impact the way I went about interrogating him? Not in any way whatsoever. And this shit MATTERS. If I post a multi-point case against someone, and one of the points involves their word selection, then if you don't find that evidence compelling, you can dismiss it and decide if the other points move you or not. But I think you'd be making a mistake, because in my experience, understanding the psychology behind word choice is very helpful in these games. For example: On March 22 2018 19:06 Palmar wrote: I actually really like rayn's last quote on noobking. That was a perfectly readable sentence by ykl, but noobking decided to be obtuse about it. Is it *possible* for someone to say that, and ALSO mean it? Yeah, it's possible. But the presence of the word "actually" directly reduces the chance that Palmar believes what he is saying. And increases the chance that he is scum, does not find what you said to be interesting or worthwhile at all, but will nevertheless take the opportunity to cast aspersions at me, simply because I'm not on the scum roster. That said, I have no interest in eliminating Palmar from the game at this time, because several of his other posts (particularly ones during this Night Phase) reveal to me that he has a better-than-average understanding of the game mechanics and strategy. He understands the limitations on Day 1 scumhunting, he understands the reduced value of certain roleclaims, he understands the difference between a townlean/townread and "more likely to be town than scum." If he's town, he should eventually prove a strong asset in unraveling the game. | ||
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On March 22 2018 21:01 ExO_ wrote: This is a part of the game I struggle with, feeling motivated to filter dive and scum hunt after the mislynch. Pretty big part of the game, bro. We're expected to mislynch on Day 1. This is what comes next. *shrug* On March 22 2018 21:01 ExO_ wrote: Rayn you said you were interested in me. Do you or anybody else have questions I can answer? Ooh, ooh! I have a question you can answer. Imagine a hypothetical world where we have a Vigilante. Whom should they kill tonight, and why? | ||
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On March 22 2018 21:54 ExO_ wrote: I think there's two approaches here I would consider: Shoot Disinfo. Operate on the assumption that Scum won't target him for KP going into Night 1. If he's telling the truth I'll know then. Especially with the way the voting went (chaos after he blue claimed) maybe could use his thoughts and my own thoughts to formulate an educated opinion on who is scum. And if he was lying, easy scum dead. Alternatively I might shoot Vivax. Might just be OMGUS but I don't think Vivax has scum hunted this game. I think his post have largely distracted town and can't make sense coming from a towny point of view. He's scum reading both myself and Keslier -- this doesn't make sense in my opinion. Particularly with the discussion I had with Keslier earlier in the day. And I don't think he's ever given a good explanation. + Show Spoiler + On March 22 2018 03:32 Calix wrote: Day 1 Vote Count disformation [5]: Koshi, n00bking, KelsierSC, raynpelikoneet, Holyflare n00bking [4]: Conversion, KelsierSC [2]: ExO_, darthfoley rsoultin [1]: ExO_ [1]: Vivax, Alakaslam [1]: rsoultin Rels [1]: Mocsta ykl [0]: Mocsta [0]: Tictock [0]: Palmar [0]: Not Voting [5]: ykl, Palmar, sicklucker, disformation, Alakaslam disformation is currently the lynch. The deadline is Wednesday, Mar 21 10:59pm GMT (GMT+00:00) which is in . If there is an error in the vote count, let us know via PM. On March 22 2018 03:48 Vivax wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote KelsierSC At the time, Keslier is the 3rd wagon but 2 votes behind. He hops on the wagon with me, his primary scum read all game. I'm just not sure I believe if he really thinks I'm scum he's going to hop on a wagon with me to try to get traction for a new target (or just throw his vote away on 3rd party). So Vivax or Disinfo. I feel like if I was a better player I would go with Disinfo because potentially more information could be learned by confirming he's blue. However I personally would be more likely to go with Vivxa: I think he's likely to be scum. Thanks. A potential flaw in your disformation plan is that, again, he could be a mafia Veteran. So I think that would keep him from being a good Vigilante target, even aside from the talk of how a Vigilante is better off shooting into the trash-tier people who aren't really playing. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 22 2018 22:25 Palmar wrote: I haven't read hf's reasons for thinking mocsta is mafia, but I have no big reasons to think mocsta is scum outside of his very weak entry. Someone asked me if Mocsta dropping the post restriction is more town or scum, and I think it's more likely to be town, as I don't think he was ever in any real danger of being lynched. Yeah, that was me who asked you that, and apparently you agree with the evaluation I posted. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 22 2018 21:55 Palmar wrote: He's bitching about me using the word actually. This is even on a surface level straight up scummy because this is not how you toneread. You can't just assume that all people talk the same. (I've tried to lynch LS for bad grammar, it's a terrible idea). But just to prove this to be a bullshit read without a doubt, here are some highlights from the last game I played: Hahahahahaha. The guy who just finished saying he doesn't meta people (and consequently, has NO idea if what he's trying to scumread me for is even alignment-indicative for me at all) wants to whine about me discussing a proven generalization regarding the use of the word "actually" that I did NOT use to scumread him. I didn't "bitch" about it at all. I used it as an *example* of what I was explaining to rayn about the psychology behind word choice. I used *that* example because it was fresh in my mind, having just happened. I specifically said I have no interest in tossing you out of the game yet. And part of the reason is that I DON'T know you, and did not jump to the presumption that the way you used the word was good cause for scumreading YOU (individually), even though, in a vacuum, your post IS scum-indicative. That means exactly ONE of us is NOT a hypocrite. Hint: + Show Spoiler + It's me! On March 22 2018 21:55 Palmar wrote: Oh and this part: I agree with this part. Although "better-than-average" is perhaps an unnecessarily weak description of my prowess. I'd have preferred something like "world-class". Okay, world-class. Perhaps second only to me, even. Doesn't seem to be helping you produce a scumread who is actually scum at the moment, however. Best be keeping your eyes open. | ||
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False. | ||
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On March 22 2018 23:06 Palmar wrote: My rules are for other people, not myself. That would be a fair paraphrasing of how I described you being a hypocrite, sure. On March 22 2018 23:06 Palmar wrote: My case is for other people, not you. I might need to strip you of that "world class" rank then. IF you are Town, then there is one person whose feedback you should MOST want, about your case. Your target's feedback. If you're scum, then the less you directly interact with your target about your points against them, the better you'll probably like it. | ||
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On March 22 2018 23:18 Holyflare wrote: Point to me a game on to mafia that isn't themed that has a mafia veteran. The one you're in. "- The following roles can be used and can be of any alignment: Veteran, Roleblocker, Doctor, Jailkeeper, Role Cop, Vanilla Cop, Tracker, Watcher, Vigilante, Vanilla." | ||
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n00bKing
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1) ykl - Seems to me to be playing entirely out of fear. He mentioned early on that he's used to scum being more passive, and it's hard to be much more passive than what he has been. There's a lot of timidity and caution in his posts, including the several minutes that rsoul noticed it took him to craft a nothing-post about where he'd placed his vote, when he didn't even seem to have much interest in placing a vote at all. If he's town, and has played a bunch of real-life mafia, what's he so afraid of, when trying mafia-by-forum? Afraid of being scumread...afraid of making wrong reads...afraid of being mislynched. But he should be very used to making wrong reads as town, and very used to other players making wrong reads too (sometimes even by scumreading him while he's town). If he's scum, and has played a bunch of real-life mafia, what's he so afraid of, when trying mafia-by-forum? Afraid of screwing up and being caught. I think this is a much bigger motivator of fear, and would rather easily explain the caution, the timidity, the reluctance to take positions and place votes, etc. It also explains his hesitance to get involved in any of my attempts to talk to him, after I quickly identified his nervousness in our early exchange. Could he be town and hiding from me? Yeah, I guess. But it's easier to understand him hiding from me if he's not. 2) Alakaslam - Town players will be wrongfully accused all of the time. His overreaction (there was only one person voting against him) hardly looks justified, to me. I'll ask for some more perspective on it, from people who have seen him play more often than I have. Does he sometimes pull this "take my ball and go home" response when scumread as town? Does he sometimes pull this "take my ball and go home" response when scumread as scum? This is a different type of fear-based game than ykl's. Instead of playing scared, it uses our own fear as a weapon against us. Fear that if he's on our team but we keep needling him, he'll continue to take his ball and go home. We'll get nothing from him, as a teammate. No reads, no vote, not even any POSTS. So the only way to derive any value from him will be if we're nice, and stop trying to pressure him. This would make him a bad town teammate at best, but I think the motivation for a scum player to set up circumstances where he can use any sort of pressure as an excuse to refrain from posting and voting are obvious. 3) Coagulation - Posts to say hi, but has no comment on the game. Later returns during N1 to tell us that he has caught up on reading the thread. Still has no comment on the game. Lets the Night Phase expire, but still has no comment on the game. A scum player may feel no compunction to comment on the game yet, they can most likely just do so on Day 2. But a town player who isn't really being scumread by anyone (no real reason to think the scum team would view him as a high misynch candidate) doesn't know he'll be around on Day 2. How does this Town player invest ALL the time it took to read the 85-page thread, and then risk the possibility of being killed before he gets to say A WORD about what he thought of that 85-page thread? Unforgivable. It's considerably worse, if Coagulation is any sort of a decent Town player. That would increase the odds that his thoughts would be carefully read and considered, had he only bothered to post them. And would increase the odds that the Mafia would be content to eliminate him before he gets a chance to participate, if he doesn't post them. So, is Coagulation any sort of a decent Town player? Or is he another guy like Slam or FF, who assures us that he wields no influence, and that no one ever would listen to anything he had to say? Because that's the only scenario where I can make sense of a town player reading an 85-page thread, and then risking his own death before he gets to tell us ANYthing about what he thought of those 85 pages. | ||
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##Vote: Tictock | ||
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On March 23 2018 08:10 MoosyDoosy wrote: Either Mocsta is vig and he gave a bad shot and rsoultin/darthfoley are mafia or Mocsta is mafia and rsoultin/darthfoley are town Explain this inverse relationship. | ||
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On March 23 2018 08:11 Tictock wrote: Just checking flips before I finish reading (note I still have not read pgs 40-70 or w/e) Guess I can let that HF stuff go. Exo seems like the weirdest kill to me, unless he was vigged? Assuming for a moment that that was all mafia KP then I think 5 mafia is a safe bet (6 just seems like too much for 20 players). Noting for myself to look into who Vivax was scum reading. This feels astoundingly contrived. Why would someone post about the flips while admitting they aren't caught up enough on the thread to know anything about what they mean? | ||
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On March 23 2018 08:19 MoosyDoosy wrote: If Mocsta is vig then Koshi is probably Mafia. Why? | ||
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On March 23 2018 08:28 MoosyDoosy wrote: Anyone who DOESNT follow these two posts: is scum and should be killed. Guess you'll be killing Palmar then, since he's trying to have me lynched instead of following those posts. heh | ||
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On March 23 2018 08:35 Koshi wrote: Just like Mocsta I think we blocked 1 kp tbh. Mafia kp is 4/2=2 and I think they have either a vigi or strongarm. The balance seems fine this game. If they have a Vigi, then Mocsta would have been the 3rd mafia kp (I feel this is unlikely though). If they have a Strongman, and Town vigi was the 3rd kill, there is still not a KP "blocked" anywhere. So why do you assume one was blocked somewhere? (Man, sure would be nice to know how many mafia are in the game, HUH?) | ||
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On March 23 2018 08:57 darthfoley wrote: Because with as much movement as there was EoD, it's hard to believe the 5 popular wagons were all town Rels -- flipped town Mocsta -- claimed vig + shot went through darthfoley -- your friendly vanilla town n00bking -- ??? Conversion -- ??? If I accept that both nk/conversion are town, it's basically saying that mafia were sitting back, laughing maniacally while town just acted like chickens with their heads cut off. You haven't seen Day 1 end that way a hundred times? | ||
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On March 23 2018 12:23 Tictock wrote: Tbh it is rather odd Mafia did not shoot into either of Mocsta or Dis. Now why is that something you would want "to be honest" about? Mocsta was fairly close to being lynched on D1, so HF and I both felt comfortable saying he would not be killed. He was too tantalizing as a mislynch target. Meanwhile: On March 23 2018 12:23 Tictock wrote: Idk why but I feel like Mafia are quite likely to have a strongarm this game, and Dis prob should have died. Though it's not impossible they left him alive for WIFOM. Kind of ridiculous. Why should they have wasted a Strongarm to kill an exposed Veteran? Here are the 9 potential Town roles: Veteran, Roleblocker, Doctor, Jailkeeper, Role Cop, Vanilla Cop, Tracker, Watcher, Vigilante Every single one of them can help the Town catch scum, help the Town kill scum, or help the Town prevent kills by the scum....EXCEPT an exposed Veteran. If we assume disformation is a legitimate Town Veteran, then: barring a scenario where he becomes the "Town Jesus" that was described earlier, there is NO rush to eliminate him. He's been completely neutralized by virtue of claiming his actual role, instead of just saying he was blue. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 23 2018 13:37 Mocsta wrote: This is a good post from tictock in context of what happened circa page 15. I would lynch n00bking over tictock based on this. lol, well okay then. If "sticking to incorrect reads that were fabricated out of poor reasoning" is what you like from players, then yeah....I'm not gonna be your cup of tea. His vote WAS in fact bad, and both of his scumreads were Town. | ||
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Rather...perhaps I was just RIGHT? And Holyflare was WRONG. And Tictock was either wrong or scum. Yeah...that makes for an extremely simple explanation of things, in place of "TMI." But hey, if you want to claim "TMI" for my townread and defense of Exo, then you don't need to stop there. Keep digging in my filter, and I promise you'll find moooorrrre of it, because Exo was one of my Top 2 townreads in the whole friggin' game. If the original town indicator wasn't enough for others, I have no idea why they still wouldn't decide he was Town after the most convincing continuous string of dumbtown posts I may ever have seen. Page after page, he had me chuckling through a facepalm, and eventually rsoul got so fed up with him that she (while saying she didn't think he was scum) made a post that essentially read like "I don't want to tell you that you're an idiot who can't read....BUT...." I felt a little bit bad for her, but mostly I felt bad for Vivax, if Vivax was scum, and Exo was the guy he was going to try and push, that day. Because Exo's posting I felt made him a million percent lynchproof. It would have been doubly bad for scum Vivax because multiple players were saying that Exo and Kelsier (the other guy Vivax was pushing) appeared to be the same alignment. Such that Exo accidentally tripping and falling into a vat of neon green paint was going to render Vivax's other target lynchproof as well. Alas, Vivax was Town, so all this potential hilarity was for naught. Anyway, you acted bummed that your top townread (Vivax) was killed last night. I'm pretty much in that same boat...thanks to YOU. So if you're a Town vigilante, then you're one in the hole, with that shot. Try not to get yourself two in the hole by contributing to my mislynch today. How can I help you keep from doing that? | ||
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On March 23 2018 17:37 rsoultin wrote: NK I could definitely lynch if he doesn't pull out his town god he's been bragging about all this time lol >< I provided 3 meaningful discussion points? Maybe discuss them? ONE person has made ONE comment on ONE of the 3 of them. | ||
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On March 23 2018 18:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: I can tell you about this mafia god town play. Gets poceted super hard by 2/3 mafia D1. Tunnels one of the only two people who try to lynch mafia in the game. Gets lynched D1. Hahahaha. As I mentioned before, I have only been lynched D1 ONE time, in all my years of playing these games. ONE. In that ONE game, I posted exactly TWO names in the voting thread. They were BOTH SCUM. I was mislynched Day 1 (YOUR fault), and you did NOT manage to win without me. | ||
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On March 23 2018 18:17 Palmar wrote: We're killing noobking today. I kinda want to point out that half the game has voted for NK or called him mafia (ff, conversion, rayn, moosey, ticktock, mocsta, disfo, me etc) but there seems to be a lot of resistance to building an actual wagon on him. Like why am I throwing down the first vote here? HF scumread him since day 1. I think it would be a grand idea to pile some votes onto noobking. Zzzzzz. I refuted your points already. With room to spare. "HF scumread him since day 1?" Yeah, and then realized he probably shouldn't be, BEFORE the end of Day 1. On March 23 2018 07:59 Holyflare wrote: I didn't think his later posting resembled his last mafia game so I backed off it. So did the majority of other people. He apparently also realized he shouldn't be scumreading me at the end of Night 1 either. Since he posts a lynch progression that continues to start with Mocsta, says that if Mocsta is Town, "lynch Tictock 10/10 times" and then says to move on to Fecalfeast. You don't see my name in that progression. What you do see is him saying that Palmar is playing his mafia meta so far, but that he wants to see more before making a decision on you. Now, does HF not scumreading me anymore make me town? No. Does him saying you're playing your mafia meta make you scum? No. There's no reason why Holyflare necessarily has to have ANY clue what he's talking about. But you damn sure can't act like there should have been votes on me already, using a basis of "HF scumread him since Day 1" | ||
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On March 23 2018 18:23 ykl wrote: Going by the flip on Holyflare and Vivax and assuming that both were targeted because their reads were on track What would lead you to this assumption? | ||
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On March 23 2018 19:12 darthfoley wrote: If they strongman shot a VT then it wouldn't actually be KP right? I think that's how it usually works. so there may have been blocked kp from an inaccurate shot The Strongman does not create an additional attacker. When used AS an attacker, his attack cannot be prevented. | ||
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On March 23 2018 19:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: No you didn't, especially when you vote off of those three people. I don't even know if you scumread any of them or not and if you do why is your vote on Tictock instead if you want them discussed? Because I actually know how to accomplish more than one thing at the same time? | ||
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It was only one post. Can you read one post? Pretty please? #2012. | ||
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On March 23 2018 19:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: wrong. you also voted for me. you also tunneled me all D1 when i was doing nothing but trying to lynch mafia1 and mafia2. It was your fault you were mislynched because you were so bad and you would have never lynched any mafia in that game regardless of where your votes were. NO, I did NOT vote for you. I voted for only TWO players, CopCake and GB, and they were both scum. You misremember, or you are lying, but those WERE the only two names I ever put into the voting thread. You lead a mislynch on someone who pegged 2/3 of the team on Day 1 in their only two votes (one of whom I posted very fleshed out and detailed arguments against), and try to claim that it was their fault for being "so bad." lol Yeah, I think I woulda lynched mafia just FINE in that game, if you had just gotten out of my (and your own) way. Too bad you didn't convince everyone to just sheep my votes after you mislynched me. Maybe then you would've won. | ||
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On March 23 2018 19:31 darthfoley wrote: I appreciate the caps lock frequency. It really screams "I'm secure about my ability as a player." I LOVE CAPS LOCK, darthfoley. In any mood, on any topic. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 23 2018 19:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: Your post about 3 lurkers basically says nothing but that they are lurking. Wrong. How could anyone read it and then say this? That is not all it says, about any of the 3 of them. Not to mention the fact that I ask straightforward and direct questions that should be VERY simple for other players to answer. On March 23 2018 19:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you want to pressure them or think they are mafia i don't understand at all why you are voting for tictock instead Explained already. There should be NO reason I can't do both at the same time. I can accomplish both at the same time. I've done it dozens of times before. On March 23 2018 19:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think you are directly contradicting what you said on D1 here, because -- as you are a logical player -- logically you should want to pressure lurkers to talk or kill them (as per your stance on D1). Which to me looks really scummy since you did this shit last game hard core. Of course I did this shit last game. I had no reason to deviate from proper town play at that point in the game. So I simply played how a town player ought to, which means it looks exactly how I'm playing this game. On March 23 2018 19:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: You pressed all people to scumhunt and then you threew it all into trash by voting for an afk Kelsier who was never gonna be lynched at the EoD. There was NO reason for me to think he wouldn't be lynched at EoD. I put the option there, if it wasn't used, that's not my fault. On March 23 2018 19:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't care if you swapped your vote on Rels here, it doesn't take much brain to correct your obvious "mistake" you made as mafia last game. That was NO mistake, and I did not "correct" anything. I GUARANTEE you, if I had needed to leave an hour before the deadline in D1 of this game, I WOULD have left my vote on sicklucker, just as I left my vote on Kelsier in that game. On March 23 2018 19:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: The point is. If you think the lurkers are mafia, why aren't you pressuring them instead of voting for Tictock? Doing BOTH? It wouldn't really even take that much cooperation from the other players. Just a LITTLE. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 23 2018 20:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: Funny thing is you literally voted for me after i made a case on mafia. Funny thing is I literally never voted for you at ALL. You have to be mafia here, right? Arguing just for the sake of taking up space in the thread with an argument where you are wrong, and HAVE to know you are wrong? You have to be mafia, right? Because nobody is THIS brain-dead. Go look at the voting thread. Find where I voted for you. NEVER happened. I voted EXCLUSIVELY against two scum players. Look at the final vote count from that day, and look for a vote against you from me that got scratched out before I moved it somewhere else. Uh-uh. I never voted for you. I only voted for scum. But you somehow managed to get me lynched on Day 1, even though it had never happened before, and has never happened since. And then...you failed to win without me. As it has been more than 4 entire years since any town team I was on has made the mistake of killing me themselves and then survived it. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 23 2018 20:26 Mocsta wrote: you are scum because, for all your proclamations of being world-class, you are merely existing; content to reply to others and one-post pressure lurkers. Absurd. Read my filter. Filled to overflowing with me bringing up topics for discussion that had gone unnoticed by others, and lines of questioning about why players hold the opinions they claim to, not to mention GETTING them to choose which opinions they claim in the FIRST place. If YOU are Town, then what excuse could you possibly have for not engaging in the discussions I am trying to get settled? Seriously, tell me. Why would you staunchly refuse to participate in my efforts to advance the game, and discover the identities of the players who are mafia? Why are you standing in the way of that goal? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 23 2018 21:22 disformation wrote: ykl at least seems new to forum mafia and overwhelmed. can he be both as scum? sure. is there a lot of content to go on: no. would I like to be in lylo with him as things stand: no. so dunno. is there a super good reason to lynch with fire rn: not rly. hope we have a cop or something. Not really what a cop is for. We'd find out whether or not there was a "super good reason to lynch with fire" if he was nailed to the wall and forced to participate, as he would be in games at other sites. Instead we have 7 players who aren't even voting, and of the players who are posting things, some still do not respond to direct questions. Moosy is a great example of this. Makes a bunch of disjointed "If X, then Y" posts (each one different than the last) that all appear to have no basis. And if you ask him for the basis...no answer. Yet some people somehow find the nerve to count him as someone "trying to solve the game." I can't even. On March 23 2018 21:22 disformation wrote: slam: dunno not even voting is imo always a bit risky/weird for scum imo. gut feeling also says he is slightly more likely to be town. think ill trust rs on that. she said he is prolly town earlier. What makes not voting riskier for scum than for anyone else? On March 23 2018 21:22 disformation wrote: coag: plamar was suggesting he always plays like this. don't really know. if so I would like to trade my vest against a vig shot. pure coin flip? would actually like some ppl confirming that he always plays like this. if he doesn't there is actually a good scum chance here. Yes, a REALLY good scum chance there, if Palmar is mistaken or misinforming. If the truth is that Coagulation has often been a worthwhile town asset, then I think the points I made give us extremely good reason to lynch him. On March 23 2018 21:22 disformation wrote: what do you think of fefe @nk? Well, let's see here.... On March 16 2018 09:16 Fecalfeast wrote: i am not promising any more effort or activity than last game On March 20 2018 11:00 Fecalfeast wrote: so can I just disregard the last 12 pages or what. I'm gonna do that On March 21 2018 04:23 Fecalfeast wrote: What's the slam story i skipped it On March 22 2018 01:09 Fecalfeast wrote: I've only read to page 38 On March 22 2018 06:36 Fecalfeast wrote: i have no idea what's going on On March 23 2018 06:48 Fecalfeast wrote: when have i had any impact as town or mafia in like 3 years? On March 23 2018 08:35 Fecalfeast wrote: I honestly don't think I'll be trying too hard so if i have to die to solve the game go for it. What I think of Fecalfeast is that he is the living embodiment of TL Mafia, in a nutshell. Ostensibly he is a terrific place for votes (if people were voting) to get him to participate more so you can get a read on him. And if he won't participate more, you kill him. Unfortunately, there are too many other do-nothings to actually single him out for it, and based on my experience playing with him in other games (and reading other games he's participated in) his do-nothingness in this game is not really alignment-indicative. Hence the questions in my long post about the history of Alakaslam and "take my ball and go home" behaviors, and about Coagulation and "read 85 pages but have nothing to say about them, before risking my own death" behaviors. I think the answers to those questions can yield more context than meta analysis of FecalFeast is likely to yield. You apparently aren't someone who has the answers to those questions, but I thank you for at least trying to address them. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 23 2018 22:04 rsoultin wrote: @nk the mostly afk players reads don't really interest me. The only one that comes close is the ykl read. And what are your answers to the questions I posed? On March 23 2018 22:04 rsoultin wrote: To be able to read you id need you to comment on other things that have more content in the thread. More content? What things are those supposed to be? On March 23 2018 22:04 rsoultin wrote: Not interested in the dick measuring who voted who and who was bad in a previous game argument @.@ it has absolutely no relevance to this game It has relevance to this game in that rayn displayed a willingness to continue an argument in which he knows he is in the wrong. My fake-out non-vote of him was a big topic of discussion in that game, I *know* he remembers it. I *know* that HE knows that I did not vote for him in that game, and that the only two players I voted for in that game were BOTH scum. Yet he continued to extend the argument about it, time and time again. For what? To make the game thread longer and harder to read? To make his filter longer and harder to read? To try and take my focus off of the game at hand? What other reason would he have for willfully extending an argument where he knows what I've said is fact? On March 23 2018 22:04 rsoultin wrote: Let's pretend I give you the benefit of the sound and say yes losing a town nk would cripple us and we'd have no chance of winning. Now convince me you're town rather than trying to scare people about losing town god noobking. Why, certainly. And how would you like for me to go about that, beyond what I have already been doing? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 23 2018 22:17 ykl wrote: Its not really a complicated thought process. Scum notices them getting suspected -> scum panics -> scum kills to get people off their trail. Its pretty much the simplest conclusion possible and probably the dumbest one but I'm a really stupid person so I'll go with this first And if your inclination is to "assume that both were targeted because their reads were on track" then wouldn't you have to expect the mafia to have thought of this, when selecting their targets? In chess terms, this would represent thinking just ONE move ahead, yet you've not even done that? Holyflare's top scum read had been mocsta, and Vivax's targets were Kelsier and Exo (whom multiple players had said were likely of the same alignment, regardless of which alignment that turned out to be). If the mafia wants people to think that HF and Vivax were targeted because their reads were on track, then it could be in an effort to achieve a mislynch on any of mocsta/Exo/Kelsier. Problem being that (if mocsta is truly a town Vigilante) they didn't foresee that he would cement his earlier Vigilante claim, and shoot Exo. Making an Exo mislynch impossible, a mocsta mislynch unlikely, and (if people still think Exo and Kelsier were likely the same alignment) a mislynch on Kelsier unlikely as well. If you want to operate under the assumption that HF and Vivax were killed because their reads were on track, are you suggesting that mocsta should be the lynch? Are you suggesting that Kelsier should be the lynch? Are you suggesting anyone should be the lynch? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 23 2018 23:19 Mocsta wrote: I dont like saying this But conv rage quit feels controlled i.e. fake More fake or less fake than Slam's, in your opinion? More fake or less fake than rayn's, in your opinion? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 01:03 Tictock wrote: Kus I knew what time it was, and it saved me from fruitlessly responding to several of HF’s posts. There wouldn't be any risk of fruitlessly responding to a dead HF, if you just didn't post until you'd read. And being saved from fruitlessly responding to a dead HF didn't save you from fruitlessly making posts about the flips while having no context. eg "Exo seems like the weirdest kill to me, unless he was vigged?" If you just read before you posted, you would have seen that mocsta had said he was vig-killing Exo. So, why would a TOWN player feel any need to post reactions to the flips, if he hadn't read the rest of the thread yet, and had no context to work with? I see absolutely no reason for a town player to do this. However, it is comparatively easier for me to pick out the scum motivation for trying to sound like you've not read the thread when you actually have. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 03:04 darthfoley wrote: I don't think he's a shit player. But I also don't think he's mafia Jesus This is a pic of me from December, choking out a so-called "strongman." ![[image loading]](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2d/4d/8f/2d4d8f846e102a811110d03df2be4960.jpg) | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 05:03 Tictock wrote: Could you try and spew this sort of self-righteous word vomit outside the thread please? Literally 3 paragraphs of “told ya so” that added nothing to the game. Wrong. It's important to the game because it explains me continually treating Exo as Town (both throughout Day 1 and Night 1) without it meaning I have "TMI." The rationale behind me thinking that early post was town-indicative is relevant. How his exchange with rsoul made me upgrade him to even townier status is also relevant. It explains why during Night 1, I would encourage him to battle through his disappointment over the D1 mislynch, understand that we're expected to mislynch on D1, and keep working at the game. And why I chose him specifically to ask what he thought a town Vigilante should do, if there was one. I trusted HIM to provide an untainted, Town-motivated answer. As it turns out, I didn't like his suggestion of shooting disformation (because of the possibility of an actual mafia Veteran) so I explained that, in case there was a town Vigilante listening, who was waffling on what to do. But I at least trusted him to not try and lead the Vigilante astray in his answer. I certainly did not foresee that the player I was trusting to give untainted advice to the Vigilante might then be shot BY that Vigilante, as may have happened. (It's been mentioned already that a 4-man mafia team that contains a Vigilante could be fine for game balance, but I still have trouble explaining Exo as a kill target for that mafia Vigilante, which is why I am not worrying about mocsta yet for Day 2. If he's scum, he'll need to be caught later, imo) | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 05:50 rsoultin wrote: Moosy - my impression of his scum play was he fell off hard later in the game while still posting periodically. i'm not getting that impression here, but need to double-check to make sure his posts are leading somewhere Think you're gonna wind up disappointed. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 08:13 Tictock wrote: Touching back on this as I read it. I’m not sure if it applies super well to Noobking due to his play style, but this type of mafia focused thinking raises red flags for me always. It’s the type of thought process that shows noob is thinking from a mafia POV. Every town player should be stepping back to think about things from a mafia POV from time to time. That's how counterintelligence works. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 08:37 Mocsta wrote: ##2279 is rubbish The only person who said same allignment between kelsier and exo is me Literally one or two others said tvt lulz? *You* thought they were likely both the same alignment (and said so). *I* thought they were likely both the same alignment (and said so). Vivax thought they were likely both the same alignment (and said so). And that's just off the top of my head. Could have been more people who said things that were similar. But *nobody* was looking at it from the outside and saying they thought it was TvS, that I recall. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 08:39 Mocsta wrote: Who cares Mafia might quit irl to team mates But i cant see mafia ever rage quitting Instead its a concede or stop posting Rage quit is how ya stop posting. You haven't seen mafia rage quit before??? I've seen mafia employ this tactic more than once in the same GAME, before. Of course, it's a fake rage quit, so they come back. Know anyone who said they were bailing on this game or "weren't going to play Day 2" but then came back? On March 24 2018 08:39 Mocsta wrote: Slam and ryan arent lynch candidates today lol, and why is that? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 08:42 Mocsta wrote: #2291 Thinking a player under scrutiny is town of course is not tmi But you at no point assist or persuade others to your conclusion. OF COURSE I DID. What else could have been the point of me breaking down the reason why his post was Town-indicative, instead of Scum-indicative (as HF and Tictock were trying to say) or NAI (as Palmar was trying to say)? I gave a breakdown of that reasoning TO ASSIST OR PERSUADE OTHERS TO MY CONCLUSION. On March 24 2018 08:42 Mocsta wrote: Instead you are content to nitpick their logic. Logic you inherently know is false. That is the tmi part of being mafia. Nitpicking their logic is EXACTLY how I can ASSIST OR PERSUADE OTHERS TO MY CONCLUSION. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 09:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: "Same alignment" is also bullshit, always, based on two people arguing. Well, looks like both of the people you're addressing disagree with you. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 09:44 Tictock wrote: Similar question to you as I posed to Moosy. You guys were scum together last game, what is your read of him this game. I am not interested in lynching him in this Phase. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 10:04 Tictock wrote: Lmao You think I’m scum pretending that I haven’t read the game? Do you have an alternative explanation? Like I said, if you were scum, I am able to figure out a reason why your post exists. If you're town, I don't know why your post exists. Why does your post exist? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 10:53 Tictock wrote: Considering the initial quote from Mocsta was prior to the modkill I was kinda assuming noob didn't know about that. You talking about my reading the flips post? Kus I explained exactly why. How could a town resist getting that kind of info about the game even if they are still catching up? If nothing else I guess you have to flip me to find the town who would do that. Makes no sense to me why I would continue reading when I could open a new tab, click the last pg in the game and see the daypost. Yikes. This response is really, really bad. No one said they don't know why you would go look at the flips. They said they don't know why you would make your super-contrived sounding POST about them, instead of waiting to post until after you had read the thread and would actually have any context to use in what you say. Under no circumstances should I be needing to explain this to you. You look as though you are failing to understand, on purpose. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 11:53 Alakaslam wrote: Yes, yes I see how it looks like Blazinghand going to dinner. But things do happen in IRL. I’m surprised someone like you sees that as alignment indicative. Plus, you can look at why someone quits. How does my quit benefit me as a member of the mafia? Since there is no benefit whatsoever (it certainly didn’t help my goals- I simply proved my unreliability) it is NAI. The benefit is that you give yourself cover for not taking positions, not voting, and not even posting. And as I said before, it sets the stage for you to continue to be allowed to get away with not doing much, for fear that if we pressure you, you will take your ball and go home, and we will potentially lose whatever value you could have contributed, if we were simply "nicer." | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 12:09 MoosyDoosy wrote: It's because he's new that he's just as likely to flip scum as he is town to be honest. I think he's scum Why do you think he's scum? And while we're at it, I'll bump this: and this: | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:28 rsoultin wrote: Just for clarification, this is the post that people say they don't understand how it can come from town? Correct. But his recent defense of the post has been significantly worse than the post originally was, imo. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:40 Alakaslam wrote: I’m not going to be an unwarranted ass, and I apologize for the above. Cool. If you're Town, and something I said made you feel disrespected in some way, I apologize as well. Who you wanna lynch? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:40 rsoultin wrote: I mean, I know it's the one rayn is talking about. I'm just making sure that it's also the one you're talking about nk? Yes. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:49 rsoultin wrote: Tt's explanation for it lines up for me? I'm terms of teaching differently to the hf/viva kills. I guess it's a bit purposeless in the sense that he's just speculating about kp and saying he needs to check things, I'm just not sure what's supposed to be so scummy about it? ...as rayn and I have said, there is no reason for a town player to make that post. As I've said, I can, however, imagine a reason for a scum player to make that post. And again, his defense of the post has been even worse than the post was. Check my "Yikes" post. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 17:21 rsoultin wrote: -pokes- you seem to have a pretty good handle on noob. I'm not clear on your posts...do you think he's scum this game? It seems like maybe you don't. You were talking about how they played on the other site and scum basically playing chicken shit. What bugs me most about noob is his focus on afkers to the exclusion of everything but his counterwagon this phase. Am I wrong to be bugged by that? I.e. is that just how he's been taught to scumhunt on the other site because scum there are chicken shit? I have 2 quick comments on this, but I'll let him answer first. Remind me, if needed. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
Alakaslam - I went and looked at games where he was lynched as mafia and games where he was mislynched as town, to see if the berserker rage quit from this game appeared to be alignment-indicative or not. Being mislynched does not normally seem to rile him up, not even in the early game. And remember, these aren't just games where ONE person is voting against him, as rsoul was in this game, or ONE person is giving him a hard time about something. These are the games where he was actually mislynched. And still that fury doesn't surface. In games where he is lynched as scum, that fury still does not *normally* surface. He seems a little more prone to anger when lynched as scum, but there certainly are games where it just...doesn't happen. He's claiming "real life factors" and that could certainly alter someone's personality enough to explain the blowup. And if those factors were in play by the time the game began, it could also alter someone's personality enough to explain why he did not "feel" the same to rsoul and myself, as his last game (as stress hormones can affect brain physiology). Result: Taking his ball and going home was a scum indicator. But a relatively mild one. Coagulation - If darthfoley enjoyed my use of all caps, he would love Coagulation. He can sometimes go several posts in a row without there being any words that are *not* in all caps. Coag can be an angry dude himself. He can call you a motherfucker as either alignment, but if he gives you the finger and calls you a faggot...he's probably town. Coag's town games sometimes involve him following a "theme" throughout the game. eg, many of his posts include a music video link. Or many of his posts include drawings with dragons in them. In the scum games I looked at, this seemed to be absent. He just posted...like he has in this game. While Town, Coag indeed *does* usually play, to some extent. Around the activity level of a FecalFeast, or maybe a little higher. He does not seem to have as much interest in playing his scum games. Post count/filter length runs more than TWICE as high when he is Town. Whereas I saw a scum game where he wasn't eliminated until the 3rd cycle, but still was on his first page of filter. Result: We are VERY conclusively seeing Coag's scum game, as opposed to his town game, for more than one reason. And the *solitary* counterpoint would be his use of the Town Seal. However, his use of the Town Seal appears to be significant a/f. I would not advocate for Coag's lynch on Day 2, and might never advocate for his lynch unless or until Palmar has flipped scum (as Palmar, who has told us he can't be bothered to read more than 20-30% of the thread, and has also told us that he does NOT meta people, somehow mustered the energy to go dig up details on Coag's Town Seal) Palmar - Confidence and attitude are through the roof in his scum games, as compared with his town games, where he is more likely to waffle on his reads, or outright sheep other votes. A very "take charge" tone in his scum games, fitting well with telling everyone that I quite simply WOULD be the lynch today, even though there were zero votes on me at the time (and had not been any votes cast against me that had since been removed, either). Result: Had no idea what it meant when Holyflare said that Palmar appeared to be "playing his mafia meta" so far. I may understand what he meant, now. | ||
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n00bKing
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This is him, at the end of one of his Town games: On May 02 2016 19:31 Palmar wrote: If a person claims blue to save himself ALWAYS, ALWAYS lynch him. It is always the right play. Comparatively less sure of what to do, in this game, when disformation claimed a blue role under duress: On March 22 2018 06:04 Palmar wrote: I hate day 1 claimers. Because not every host is a bastard host like I am it's like 90% chance that disfo is actually just veteran. The problem is that it's a completely pointless claim. It ONLY helps mafia for him to make that claim, because they can avoid shooting him forever. It's the most selfish claim you can make as town. Like the technically correct play here is to lynch disfo for being shit and dealing with it. Because he made the technically wrong play to claim in the first place. idk Given that Palmar's OWN vote was on disformation when he makes the claim (and given that he says this particular claim would be especially bad/selfish if it came from town *instead* of mafia), you might think he would be especially adamant about punching through the claim and lynching him anyway. Was obviously not the case here. Guessing at the mafia motivation for the change of heart might be sketchy. I don't know if there's something deeper than just "you don't want to be the guy who strongarms everyone into lynching a player you know would flip blue." And THIS role is one that is almost completely harmless for scum to go ahead and leave alive. Don't need to break your back getting a revealed Veteran lynched, when it can no longer hurt you at Night (and especially if the other leading wagons are town). Next, he very much disliked this post: When mocsta abandons his "post count" thing, he knows people are going to notice the change in his play, but he goes ahead and makes the change anyway. I think this is slighty town-indicative. As mafia, he might feel more pressure to stick to doing what he said he would do, SINCE he knows people will notice it when he stops. As town, he might be more prone to just say "this is a pain in my ass, screw it." The contradiction I noted from Palmar, however, is NOT one people would notice as readily. No longer town indicative, in my opinion. Maybe just null, depending on how he reacts. I thought Town might just laugh it off as a joke. "Haha, you got me there!" and move on. Instead he took it pretty personally, which made me feel like he was caught flat-footed, not expecting to have it pointed out. In Post #1683, I noted his hypocrisy, with regard to how I shouldn't say anything about what his post *might* mean, without knowing him and his meta, while simultaneously acting like he knows exactly what my post *does* mean...without him knowing me or my meta. He might have felt compelled to answer for this, and did so within minutes. But seemed to have no better defense than: "My rules are for other people, not myself." Wouldn't mind considering a Palmar lynch. But Tictock and ykl still look like reasonable targets to me as well. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 24 2018 16:58 rsoultin wrote: I'm interested in what the flips told you. How that potentially changed your view of the game. Yep, processing. Will come back to this. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 24 2018 18:13 n00bKing wrote: Other things I haven't cared for, from Palmar... This is him, at the end of one of his Town games: Comparatively less sure of what to do, in this game, when disformation claimed a blue role under duress: Given that Palmar's OWN vote was on disformation when he makes the claim (and given that he says this particular claim would be especially bad/selfish if it came from town *instead* of mafia), you might think he would be especially adamant about punching through the claim and lynching him anyway. Was obviously not the case here. Guessing at the mafia motivation for the change of heart might be sketchy. I don't know if there's something deeper than just "you don't want to be the guy who strongarms everyone into lynching a player you know would flip blue." And THIS role is one that is almost completely harmless for scum to go ahead and leave alive. Don't need to break your back getting a revealed Veteran lynched, when it can no longer hurt you at Night (and especially if the other leading wagons are town). Yeah, the more I consider this, the more the scum thought process crystallizes. The revealed Vet is a complete non-threat, so instead of pushing hard to lynch the blue claim (as he normally would) he can just half-ass the argument (as shown above in the second quote), and leave his vote there (for the sake of at least a *little* bit of consistency with the position he espoused in the first quote, should he get called out on this) but the half-assed argument won't actually move anyone to lynch the blue claim (as it didn't) and so you let someone else get pushed into the Noose instead, hope that maybe another blue role gets revealed, and all without any real risk that one of the mafia ends up in the Noose, because the other leading wagons from the day (like myself, Rels, mocsta, Conversion) had all been Town. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 24 2018 20:38 Mocsta wrote: Conversion is town??? Interesting Yeah, probably. Instead of "computer" I use "TMI" and TMI says Town. I townleaned him enough to not be one of the 6 or 7 people that formed his D1 wagon, even though I had been his initial lynch target. Just like my TMI said Exo was Town. And IF you're really a Town Vigilante? Then my TMI said that too, when you listed the reasons I ought to come after you and said "Vote me" and I said "Nah" and Holyflare was like "lynch mocsta" and I was like "Nah" because I wasn't really scumreading either of you. TMI has only let me down on Vivax so far. I was scumleaning on him a bit. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 20:56 disformation wrote: @not voting: usually you get (or can get) modkilled for not voting twice in a row, so in my mind scum at least wants to put down a random vote, since risking the danger of actually getting modkilled later in the game would be super shit for/towards their teammates. yeah it is not 100% especially with more erratic players (think moosy forgot to submit nightactions once e.g.). but imo it is more usually likely to come from super pissed off town. you seem to have made different experiences, so I guess I can understand your pov on this Yeah, different experiences I guess. The idea that a scum player can't miss a vote on purpose, because he might miss a vote by accident later (meaning he missed an entire 48 hour day phase) is not really a consideration in my world. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 21:53 disformation wrote: @nk: why do you say ticktock would be an excellent lynch, besides the nk post thingie? sry if I should have missed, feel free to quote the right post in that case Don't really have time to address this, and the other things I'm about to. Ask me about it again later, if a Tictock lynch looks or feels more achievable than whatever one I seem to be wanting at the time. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 22:00 Palmar wrote: Why didn't you quote my entire post To keep it shorter. I trim quotes down all the time (and not just other peoples' but I trim down my own quotes as well) so that people only need to read the relevant part, and can then get to the point I'm making. Palmar wrote: Notice how I'm apologizing for doing exactly what you're accusing me of doing this game. Weird how you didn't learn then. Can't say that I feel like the additional explanation you've offered about that incident really hurts the point I was making any. Not gonna say you're a stone lock to flip red here. But I'm certainly encouraged by the fact that your defense doesn't have me feeling like I need to second-guess the read. ##Unvote ##Vote: Palmar | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 22:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Another thing is the coag townie seal that noobking talked about. I can't understand how he can come to a conclusion that "if Palmar is mafia he is lying" because i think that's a completely unnatural thought. There are more players in the game who know coag than Palmar, and the reason why noone is "contesting" the townie seal "case" is because well.. that's how it is. I can't figure out where the line of "if Palmar is mafia then he can be lying" comes from because that's not an option for him as mafia regardless of coag's alignment. Not sure what you're saying here. There wasn't any scenario where I think Palmar is "lying" about the town seal. I'm saying that if Palmar and coag were to be scummates here (and this is the game where coag has elected to finally "break the seal") then there's added incentive for Palmar to do the legwork that helped convince players like me and disfo that the seal IS a big deal. This still doesn't mean "red Palmar = red coag" either. It just means that UNLESS "red Palmar" I'm probably not even going to worry about the POSSIBILITY of red coag anytime soon. Red Palmar is like the only thing that would make me bother giving it more consideration. If that still didn't make sense, then maybe I'm missing something. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 23:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: Kelsier ykl FF Basically have to contain at least one mafia however i look at this. Tend to agree that there is a baddie in there. And so far, I still don't think it's Kelsier. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 23:48 Mocsta wrote: Coag seal is no leg work I know about it and rven 5 years ago it was before my time. Palmar has record here for playing at least one game a year since tl mafai inceptiin Nice attempt n00b. I give credit there but ultimately it was a n00b effort. I don't know how much legwork it is or isn't. What I know is that Palmar told us he's only reading 20-30% of the game, and that he doesn't "meta" people. Then he went and dug up multiple links to discussions of the Coag "town seal" meta. If Coag is on the scum team with him, and this is the game where the seal is being broken, then the motivation is obvious. It sounds to me like rsoul and/or rayn are hypothesizing that Palmar could instead have done that just to look like he was doing *something* and it wouldn't hurt his scum play to give town Coag all this help looking townie, because Coag is a well-known player, and the history of the town seal would have come to light if needed anyway. That all sounds fine too. So again, red Palmar doesn't necessarily mean red Coag. I was only saying that unless or until we see red Palmar, I'm not even going to worry about a red Coag, because of how huge an indicator the town seal appears to be. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 23:13 Mocsta wrote: Stay the course. N00b is lynch today. On March 24 2018 23:15 Mocsta wrote: Like im too lazy to play this cycle so trying not to add waste to my filter You won't make up for killing a Town player with a botched vig shot by killing another one with a botched Day 2 lynch. Do better. Help us find a flaw in the arguments against Palmar, if there are any. Help us determine FF's alignment, if there's a way to do that. This Phase isn't do or die, but this Phase matters. And if you're Town, your vote is in the wrong place. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 24 2018 23:59 Mocsta wrote: i find you too blinkered. You are palmar scum read Why cant he be motivated to disprove you Disprove me about what? All his legwork about the town seal was before I ever investigated it (or Coag's meta) myself. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 25 2018 06:00 Fecalfeast wrote: 3 nonvoters 2 hours before deadline d2 classic mafia indeed Well you can kinda count Conversion as a non-voter too, or there'd be 9 votes on me. Man, my scummates are doing a sweet job of keeping me out of a Noose here. I also enjoy how someone (disformation, maybe?) said something about having no scumreads besides me. Yup...if you decide I'm scum, I can imagine that WOULD be a pathway to no other suspects. lol | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 25 2018 03:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am sorry i won't probably have time to play properly towards eod. I don't really want to lynch noobking and i think definitely not tictock for what i said earlier. ##vote Fecalfeast Okay, I'm ready to have you convince me that I should be voting against FecalFeast instead of against Palmar. Aaaaand...go! | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 25 2018 04:30 rsoultin wrote: NK mentioned there not being much direction but never what that actually meant in terms of moosy's alignment, which i find interesting I said I am not interested in lynching him today. Can't see why I would say more, when he is not a critical topic for discussion atm. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 25 2018 04:48 rsoultin wrote: This seemingly comes from nowhere. He was arguing with TT beforehand, but the only read he actually made on him that I could find before this point was this: Not much reasoning, but he was clearly fine with TT at that point. Me not wanting to lynch TT on Day 1 doesn't mean I was "clearly fine" with him. It just means I wasn't looking to lynch him. I had already called him out for his terribly-reasoned vote against Exo. But he was playing the game some, and I felt like I could expect him to keep doing so, at that point. I couldn't have that same kind of expectation for someone like FecalFeast. Or ykl (appeared to be actively hiding from me). Or Slam (appeared to have taken his ball and gone home). Or sicklucker and Rels (neither of whom had made a post yet). On March 25 2018 04:48 rsoultin wrote: @NK...what made TT a 'reasonable' lynch? Your post about his D2 entrance came like 8 hours later, so doesn't feel like an explanation for this comment from you. Yeah, that's NOT what I said. I said he was a perfectly reasonable place for a vote. You can do more with your vote than just lynch people, which is (part of) why it's pitiful that so many people here wait forever to cast one (if they do so at all). For most games I play in, voting is NOT required by rule. Yet non-voting players are far more common here, where it's actually a rules violation. lol I tacked my vote onto him to help make him the player clearly in the most danger, and see how he reacted to that. While I worked through posting some discussion points for the Phase, then some meta analysis, and then fine-tuning my scumread on Palmar. Since "I know how to accomplish more than one thing at a time." And while you say my post about his D2 entrance didn't come until 8 hours later, so it doesn't feel like an explanation for my comment that he's a good place for a vote....well...it IS an explanation? I can vote for someone first, and then explain it later. For one thing, it gives me an opportunity to award townpoints to anyone who jumps all over the same post for similar reasons. If I had just said "I'm voting against you and here are the reasons why" I'm not going to be able to differentiate between people who see his posts the same way I do, and people just pretending to. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 25 2018 05:53 Tictock wrote: Still feel ok lynching noob, though he finally put out some real content that felt ok, I really hated that post about me. And this palmar push feels more like he knows he needs to change gears and just has his sights on Palmar now than a real read. If that doesn't feel like a real read, then I guess you haven't ever seen one. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 25 2018 06:17 Tictock wrote: See this is what I mean about noob. Can’t be bothered to give even an inkling as yo what his read on me is, but continues to hammer this single point about Palmar without anything new. It’s also cute how he’s said Coag’s seal is legit but is indirectly suggesting “maybe this is the game he breaks the seal” Every game can be the one where he breaks the seal, until it happens. That's the payoff from keeping it going for so long. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 25 2018 06:24 Tictock wrote: Weird that you both believe Mocsta is the Vig but end this posy with “if you are Town” That couldn't be less weird. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 25 2018 04:12 rsoultin wrote: Noob still hasn't answered my questions -_- I feel like there was really only one. It more or less amounted to "what did you discern from the night actions?" Unfortunately, we've had very little information about what the night actions actually were, and the analysis is made more difficult by not knowing how many mafia there are. (Again, that sure would be handy to know!) I haven't had time to complete that analysis, as it takes actual effort. Skimming someone's meta is something I can do while doing something at the same time that isn't game-related. Responding to a bunch of posts in the thread is something that takes almost no time, because I am usually posting from a legit keyboard, and type over 90wpm. I can post comments on other posts almost as quickly as I generate thoughts about them. Analyzing what it means that Vivax and HF appear to have been the night-kill targets is a whole other kind of animal. That said, from what I did get to of the comments from Vivax and HF on other players, other players' comments on Vivax and HF, and mixing in some inductive reasoning, I think HF and Vivax being the night-kills would help me feel better about Exo, mocsta, and Kelsier being town. And to a lesser extent, also Tictock. (So my vote on him was only about the fact that he's had bad posts throughout every stage of the game. I voted for him despite the night results, and not because of them.) Meanwhile, HF and Vivax being the night-kills would make me more suspicious of Palmar, and you. And to a lesser extent, also Koshi and FecalFeast. Not knowing how many mafia there are is a problem again here also, because the fewer of them there are, the more weight you can put on what each one's "desirable kills" would be, based on their play. But I think another factor is that if there is an overbearing personality on the scum team (like a Palmar, for example) then I could see it not mattering what the "desirable kills" would be for potential teammates like ykl or FecalFeast. Palmar might just browbeat them into whatever Night Actions he wanted anyway. Palmar's meta looks slightly scum-indicative to me. His posts in this game (independent of the nightkills or his meta) already felt slightly scummy to me. The fact that he so powerfully scumreads someone I know to be Town does not help anything. Do I find anything in his filter that makes Vivax and Holyflare undesirable Night-kills for him? I do not. Do I think it would make sense for him to eliminate those targets, as maybe being players who have played with him a lot and could potentially use his meta history against him? Yeah, I could possibly see that. So that's the player I would flip today, were it my choice. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 25 2018 06:47 rsoultin wrote: I'll concede that it could be an explanation. But if your purpose was only to put pressure on him to see what he did, yet your problem with him was a post that you couldn't see coming from town...you see how that doesn't compute? It wasn't a post that CAN'T come from Town. It's a post that SHOULDN'T come from Town, because there isn't ANY reason for a Town player to make it. Can I envision Tictock doing something he shouldn't, without any reason for it? Yes, that doesn't feel completely out of his wheelhouse, based on my prior experience with him. It's a scum indicator, but it's not conclusive evidence, so I put my vote on him for added pressure, to see what he would say and do next, while there was already some traction on him (2 votes there before I added the 3rd, and no one else having more than 1 vote). And I didn't list which posts specifically irked me or why until later, so that I could watch and see which (if any) other players would make similar observations. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 25 2018 06:54 rsoultin wrote: Also am fully aware people can do more than one thing at a time. The problem with your vote is 1) it seemed to come out of nowhere 2) your explanation for it came well after the fact 3) it was on your only counterwagon while you only seemed interested in discussing other things #1 - Good. The more it looked that way, the better. #2 - Good. Already explained. #3 - FALSE. There could be no such thing as a "counterwagon" to me at the time I placed the vote. I had zero votes cast against me, and had no reason to suspect I might BE a wagon on Day 2. On March 25 2018 06:54 rsoultin wrote: why is there some great need for secrecy regarding your opinion on [Moosy's] alignment? Because I don't suffer from the same "diarrhea of the mouth" problem as so many other players here. I don't make the mistake of throwing around information about which surviving players I have "slightly above null" vs. which ones are "townleans" vs. which ones are hard "townreads." I'm not interested in lynching him on Day 2. 'nuff said. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 25 2018 06:58 Mocsta wrote: Tina Did nk ever get back to u on ?slam? Thete was sometjing he suggssted you remind him of? I'm supposed to answer after Slam does. If I forget to answer after Slam does, she's supposed to remind me. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
That I'm happier lynching Palmar instead. Would certainly also be willing to put a rope on the neck of ykl or FF, if it'll save my own. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 25 2018 07:01 rsoultin wrote: You are doing something really wonky here with your timing. First you 'don't have time to complete the analysis', then HF and Vivax 'make you feel better about TT', but you voted him 'despite' those results? How can you vote someone despite something that you hadn't looked into yet? Sure, I could have worded that better. I have initial impressions of what the nightkills will mean about some other players. Gut-based, instinct stuff, before I check. Sixth sense told me the nightkills were going to look good for Tictock, I voted for him "despite" that. After the analysis I did confirmed what sixth sense told me, I kept my vote on him for a while longer "despite" that. (Again, which kills Tictock would like may not matter, if there were an overbearing personality on the team with him controlling decisions.) I completed enough of the analysis to draw other conclusions from the nightkills (as listed above), but did not complete the process entirely. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 25 2018 07:07 rsoultin wrote: I'm gonna be frank with you. The last player who made this assertion was scum by a mile. And the scum motivation for keeping reads close to the chest, especially during the day phase, is also blindingly obvious. If you've stated this mindset of yours before, I suggest you link the game/post to me, because I've got less than an hour to poke into that and I can't guarantee I'd find it. Also, fair regarding the vote @.@ I'm a numbnuts Maybe this will help. On March 21 2018 13:44 n00bKing wrote: Yeah. I don't think I've ever made a "most trusted to least trusted" list, as Town. Only as scum, and only when I was really motivated to get other players to follow suit. And if I'm Town, I am probably never going to ask you who you've got firmly stuck in your "townpile." I don't need to know who your strongest townreads are, just who your scumreads are. And you don't need to know about my strongest townreads either. But if I'm scum? Yeah, THEN I want to know who is in your townpile. THEN I want to know who EVERYone has in their townpile. If I'm scum, I'd like to see a list post from everybody. I might even want to see that badly enough to post one myself. Unfortunately, on THIS site, those types of list posts are a mistake made SO frequently by town players, that you can't really scumread anyone for doing it. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On May 02 2016 19:31 Palmar wrote: If a person claims blue to save himself ALWAYS, ALWAYS lynch him. It is always the right play. I don't really agree. It depends on other factors too. Oh, and on that note, I'm a blue role. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 25 2018 07:20 Fecalfeast wrote: which one I'm the Nunya. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 25 2018 07:20 rsoultin wrote: The thing about Palmar is I sincerely hope he's town. I'll probably explain why later. And I posthumously don't disagree with rayn's post on him. I'm not sure that I'm super happy with an FF vote but that may be the only reasonable place to go, because I'm not feeling TT as scum and feel that FF has a better chance to flip that way. Just don't trust my ability to read him at all. Alright, fair enough. ##Unvote ##Vote: FecalFeast | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 25 2018 07:24 rsoultin wrote: Why wait this long? shrug? I've claimed less than 10 minutes before deadline before. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
My role PM: + Show Spoiler + You are the town Nunya Bizness. Don't tell other players your role. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 25 2018 07:47 Tictock wrote: Then it’s my weekend so don’t expect much from me! Yay! Never have, never will. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 25 2018 07:51 Tictock wrote: Aww thanks buddy. Glad you stay around here to help make TL mafia. A better place. Not all things can be redeemed. Not even by Mafia Jesus. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 25 2018 07:53 Palmar wrote: You call yourself King. But what is a King to a God? Pretty sure Jesus was a King. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
![[image loading]](https://c.tribune.com.pk/2017/04/1388125-babysealafp-1492602774-843-640x480.jpg) | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/aa/79/7d/aa797dcd4cdc7787914f6864a7422032.jpg) | ||
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