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On March 13 2018 17:46 Holyflare wrote:
Also strange nk doesn't want to go after his second biggest scum read and instead was trying to prep him to lynch me maybe?
Yes, SO strange for someone to go after their biggest scum read, instead of their second biggest. *eyeroll*
You're a better lynch than Vivax because Vivax is a medic claim.
And you're a better lynch than Vivax because you're constantly trying to help the wrong team (while he does so only every now and then!)
And you're a better lynch than Vivax because you withdrew your fake claim at the start of Day 2 when Town would have a motive to keep it secret and use it against the scum team on N2 if there's no mass claim, while Scum would have a motive to back out of the fake claim ASAP in case there IS a mass claim.
And you're a better lynch than Vivax because you give wrong reads for bad reasons (ie Koshi)
And you're a better lynch than Vivax because you go back on your other reads without explanation as soon as it becomes convenient for mafia to do so. (ie Moosy)
And you're a better lynch than Vivax because you keep (objectively) posting falsehoods about things other players have said, and when you get caught in your lies, you try to play it off as "semantics."
And you're a better lynch than Vivax because you keep inexplicably trying to act like it's scummy for me to argue against your stupid scum-favored ideas.
You're a better lynch than Vivax for ALL the other reasons listed in my case against you on Page 63.
You should be the lynch today because you...are...scum.
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On March 13 2018 19:08 rsoultin wrote:
The constant arguing is getting old, noob.
And this is something to say to me, more than it's something to say to HF, because....why?
On March 13 2018 19:08 rsoultin wrote:
You won't convince HF he's scum.
Obviously? That's not the point of what I'm doing? I'm proving he's scum for everyone else in the game, seeing the discussion?
On March 13 2018 19:08 rsoultin wrote:
And no matter how much it's better play to actually read others' posts, I really can't be assed to read the back and forth that is just "NO NO NO YOU ARE WRONG YOU ARE SCUM" that you seem to post to everything he says.
I'm not just saying he's wrong, I'm citing very specific examples for how we can know that he's wrong. That's the best thing I could possibly be doing, in attempting to get my scumread lynched.
On March 13 2018 19:08 rsoultin wrote:
stop arguing with your scumread if you don't think he could be town*
How on Earth are you supposed to get scum lynched if you don't argue with them? When you are confident in your scumread and you try to get them lynched, they will defend themselves and argue against the points you've made. That's their JOB. You get them (or keep them) in the Noose by arguing back and DEFEATING their arguments. You can't just let them argue against the evidence you have and LET them, failing to point out the holes and falsehoods in their story. That's how scum wriggles out of the Noose. If I want to get Holyflare lynched, I need to keep stomping him down every time he posts more lies in his defense, so that people can see WHY those lies are not to be believed.
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On March 13 2018 19:29 rsoultin wrote:
From what I see you're not really convincing anyone else either.
Slam already moved his vote, and Moosy and FF haven't been back yet. If they're convinced (or even if just FF is convinced, and Moosy has to move for self-preservation) that's already too many votes to top. In that scenario, if you want to keep him out of a Noose, you'll inherit the task of explaining how he is innocent, and I don't know where you'd even begin. I tried going into his filter with the pre-supposition that he's Town, and looked through for excuses to prop up that pre-supposition. If I assume he's Town before even I start reading, can I interpret his posts in a manner that fit with that narrative?
No.
On March 13 2018 19:29 rsoultin wrote:
If you want to choose to continue to beat your head against a wall, that's your prerogative
That'll be up to him. If he can't argue against the points I've made, then I feel they should be sufficient to get him lynched. If anyone has any questions about the points I've made, I'm happy to answer, but I think they speak for themselves, and I think the back-and-forth between he and I just now demonstrates that he cannot refute them. If he flails some more, I'll stomp him some more. That's the way I play, it's the only way I've ever played, and the win-loss results I've gotten from playing that way are better than anyone has a right to hope for.
Peace!
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On March 13 2018 20:00 Holyflare wrote:
That's not how you get someone lynched.
It is, actually. I've done it more times than I would care to count. And many, many times when I've caught scum, they've turned it into huge battles. I post a wall of text case against them. They post a wall of text defense. And the war is on, back and forth, over and over. And I get them lynched, when people see that I win the argument. That my points are better and stronger than my opponent's. I often don't need to make a post to any other player. I ONLY need to speak to my target, and defeat their counterarguments, when we go head-to-head. Your responses to my attacks on you are exactly what I would expect to see from a scum player trying to escape the noose. What else would you do, but try to defend yourself with the posts you made? What else would I do, but shoot them down with the posts I made? That's the game. Other people read the argument, and decide who is right and who is scum. That's the game.
On March 13 2018 20:00 Holyflare wrote:
I'm not mafia, you should ask me questions to try and reevaluate your stance.
I asked you questions, when your behavior was suspicious or confusing. You avoided answering them. When I pushed harder and got answers...they only made me think I'd been right to be suspicious, and only made me think that I could now understand why you'd avoided answering the first time. When you tried to scumread me, it was with falsehoods. When you tried to defend yourself, it was with falsehoods.
This latest post from you looks like an attempt to "play nice", calm me down, and get me to think in other directions, because you're not such a bad guy...you're just misunderstood. Just one problem: I was perfectly calm when I posted the case against you on Page 63, and I was perfectly calm when I made the posts against you on Pages 91 and 92 before you arrived.
People should read those posts, read the back-and-forth between us that followed, and decide whether I am right or wrong, about you being scum. Because "is n00bKing right about his scumread?" is now the most important question of the game to this point. Even moreso than if my target was someone else. If I'm right, nailing you to the wall is of added importance, because people keep saying things that make it sound like they have a shitty track record of successfully getting you killed when you're scum!
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On March 13 2018 20:09 Holyflare wrote:
I contradict myself because my mind changes based on new scenarios and me reading new things. Is it also an explanation that I'm opportunistic and mafia? Sure. There's also the explanation I'm town and looking at new things.
Do you think I'm not familiar with town players changing their minds? Of course town players get new information, step back, re-evaluate, and then reach new conclusions. I was just forced to do exactly that when DF's N2 medic save shattered my case against Moosy. When town players do that, I expect them to be able to explain their thought progression in a way that I can understand. When you try to explain away your contradictions, I cannot follow your thought progression. It simply looks like someone pulling a 180 because that's what's needed to get the next mislynch.
On March 13 2018 20:09 Holyflare wrote:
I said we shouldn't really kill Koshi yesterday and I even said his last post sounded sincere but I gave reasons to be hesitant. My preferred kill would have absolutely been slam
I do not believe you, and have said that if people go look at it themselves, I don't expect them to believe you either. Slam wasn't the kill you wanted, Koshi was the kill you wanted, and you got it. I predicted (before this Phase ever even began) that you would flip-flop on Moosy on Day 3 and try to make him the next kill, and now that's where your vote is, despite the fact that the night result is town-indicative for him, and despite the fact that you had been heavily townreading him earlier.
On March 13 2018 20:09 Holyflare wrote:
I've not really seen you mention [Alakaslam] once the entire game (you might have, it's not scummy for me to forget if you have) and it's weird because he is actually posting things. I'd like for you to explain why you don't want him lynched or comparatively what he's done that's towny.
What has he done that's towny? Nothing. Half his posts aren't even related to the game. Players like him (and Kelsier) are good early-game fallback options, because you're unlikely to get much out of them the rest of the game either. (EVERYTHING I said about my experiences with D1 no-shows having reduced value if they're town bore out, with Kelsier.)
So Alakaslam earns no Town points. Zero. And no scum points either, really. He's still at baseline. But I haven't listed 12 or 14 reasons to believe he's scum, like I have with you. You're nowhere near the starting baseline. So regardless of the fact that I cannot list any reasons to townread Alakaslam, he's not even in the same universe with you, in terms of lynch quality. He's a big fat nothing on my radar. You're a massive wad of scum indicators.
On March 13 2018 20:11 Holyflare wrote:
You're also doing the incorrect thing and not questioning me but instead talking at me. You'll never figure me out that way.
I have questioned you all game. And when you weren't refusing to answer, you were giving me answers that caused me to go from being suspicious of you to thinking you're definitely the Mafioso I've been looking for. I'll never figure you out this way? You're figured out. This is the part where I'm supposed to shift from figuring you out to defeating your attempts to evade the Noose.
You seem to now be pinning your hopes on the idea that the players in this game are too illiterate or too lazy to simply read what I've said and read what you've said and make a judgment on it. Guess we'll see?
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On March 13 2018 20:36 Holyflare wrote:
Now we've got that out of the way I'd really rather you link the most important posts on me as a case of sorts so other people can read it and then treat me as town for the rest of the cycle and live in a world where one of Moosy or Slam is mafia and think of why.
I'm very very sure you'd "rather" I would treat you as town for the rest of the cycle, and live in a world where you're not mafia.
If you're mafia.
But unfortunately for you, I understand that the pathway to the Town condition is to do everything I can to get you in that Noose. I've said where the *most* important posts on you are. They're on Pages 63, 91, and 92. But in actuality, ALL of the posts are important. They shouldn't just read my case against you, but also your defense, and my counterarguments to your defense. THAT'S THE GAME.
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On March 13 2018 21:08 Holyflare wrote:
Also lol "I don't believe you" i regards to Koshi. What a novel response. Nice breath of fresh air. I will just say what you say repeatedly.
That isn't something to believe or not believe. Read page 11 of my filter and tell me I wanted Koshi lynched over consolidation on Slam.
Of course it is something to believe or not believe. Reading page 11 of your filter AND telling you that you wanted Koshi killed over Slam is something that was already done before you asked. Some of your posts from Page 11 of your filter are literally IN the case I've posted against you. You only suggested a kill on Alakaslam once, and it was NOT what you actually wanted. That's NOT complicated. All it takes is a single paragraph from a scum player saying something that doesn't reflect his actual desires. (omg, no one has ever seen that before!)
After trying to fight a consolidation for the ENTIRE Phase, with TWO (worse) alternative plans of action, you finally give in to a consensus kill at the end of phase, the target of which you expect will be the target you want: Koshi. And it WAS. As you'd convinced Vivax and FF to put their heals on him, and then FF never returned to participate in a switch.
As I've said, I will GLADLY welcome anyone or everyone to re-read the EoN sequence for N2, and I do not think you'll get ANYONE to believe that the kill you *actually* wanted was Slam, over Koshi. Page 11 of your filter shows you continuing to try and motivate people to kill Koshi (just as you had throughout the N2 phase, having named him the VT scum) *after* the ONE post where you ever suggested Alakaslam as a possible kill.
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On March 13 2018 21:16 Holyflare wrote:
It's not like you're a medic and could have diverted from your plan at any point to medic me if you're so sure you know?
And what good would that have done? You're not even trying, now.
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On March 13 2018 21:09 Holyflare wrote:
I don't think I've even ever explained my contradictions to you either.
Why SURE you have! Did you already forget your FEEBLE excuses for stripping Moosy of the hard townread you had on him, at the very same time the apparent medic save from the night results derailed my case against him??
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On March 13 2018 21:27 Holyflare wrote:
Mafia would kill me
Now you're just insulting the intelligence of every player in the game.
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On March 13 2018 21:32 Holyflare wrote:
And also I didn't convince vivax and ff to vote koshi. They are independent thinkers
Oh, right. I guess that explains why FF returned to the thread after the deadline for actions, and said that he healed Koshi, and that if Koshi doesn't flip mafia then "I got played by HF"
L...O...L
On March 13 2018 21:32 Holyflare wrote:
I think Koshi was a perfect choice, I even outlined his contradictions and posted reasons why he was a good lynch UNTIL he gave me pause for thought towards eod where not one medic was trying to consolidate.
Just MORE of your lies. DF and I were both trying to consolidate. Which again, will be clear to anyone who re-reads the EoN, just as it will be clear to them that you didn't *really* want the kill to switch away from Koshi.
Keep bringing your bullshit. Swatting it away feels effortless for me.
I'll be getting some sleep now, but when I return tomorrow, if there's any more of this crap from you, I'll swat that away too.
Gotta say, if you deserve the reputation for being a decent scum player that people here seem to afford you...then this is NOT your best work.
Peace and hair grease, Mr. Mafioso.
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Wow, this is lotsa new pages.
What are the talking points I need to read up on most?
And does anyone have an up-to-date vote count?
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On March 14 2018 07:07 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2018 07:04 n00bKing wrote:
Wow, this is lotsa new pages.
What are the talking points I need to read up on most?
And does anyone have an up-to-date vote count? VC a couple pages ago
Thanks. So we're punting Moosy?
Can anyone direct me to a case on Moosy? Just whichever post best describes why he should be lynched.
Also, I see some "tinfoil" discussion about a DF/rsoul team skipping the attack for deep cover. I still don't buy rsoul being scum. And if DF is scum he doesn't need her to be part of the plan for him to execute it. DF scum doesn't mean rsoul has to be the partner.
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OMG, guys! I can't believe we missed this!
I just had a brainstorm!
+ Show Spoiler +We should lynch Holyflare :D
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On March 14 2018 07:22 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2018 07:20 rsoultin wrote:On March 14 2018 07:18 darthfoley wrote:
I mean
rsoultin is town
I don't really see Slam being mafia. I'll read his filter if we get to that point.
So that leaves Moosy and HF.
I still think Vivax is the mafia medic; if not him, then NK. But FF activity has been so trash. It is pretty strange that you'd rather lynch moosy if you're reading viva scum and have been constantly associating hf with him. I'm mainly just lazy. Lynching HF just takes a lot of work.
That's why we should have killed him instead of Koshi.
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Again, is there a case against Moosy anywhere that I can look at? Or does it not exist, and we're just lynching him because we're stupid?
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On March 14 2018 07:24 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2018 07:23 MoosyDoosy wrote:On March 14 2018 07:21 darthfoley wrote:On March 14 2018 07:16 Alakaslam wrote:On March 14 2018 07:11 darthfoley wrote:
Oh also the whole thing about the NKs being bad is jusy sikly.
AMG is a good player who was pretty hard Town read early on and was correct about prplhz. Sensible NK.
Rsoultin was literally 100% townread and wasn't gonna be lynched in the next two cycles for sure, regardless of her role as VT. She was basically another medic for all intents and purposes.
Neither was a bad NK and this narrative that HF and Vivax are pushing that the NKs were suboptimal because the NKs weren't HF/Vivax is lame as fuck But we are punching moose to make sure? I think so actually. Because if Moosy is still alive tomorrow he gets autolynched I think. Ironically if it's you vs. HF, I think that's a more interesting duel Why would i be the autolynch against holyflare? lmao wtf this would be predicated on the fact that slam flips town. Also how is slam vs hf more interesting than moosy vs hf This post from darthfoley is pretty bad
I guess it's bad, yeah. Neither is an interesting duel. You're both auto-lynch if the other flips Town, because people are apparently allergic to lynching HF for no reason they can even explain themselves. I've asked Vivax like 2 or 3 times why he is so closed-minded on the subject, and...nothing. It's almost like he's the other mafia!
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On March 14 2018 07:26 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2018 07:23 MoosyDoosy wrote:On March 14 2018 07:21 darthfoley wrote:On March 14 2018 07:16 Alakaslam wrote:On March 14 2018 07:11 darthfoley wrote:
Oh also the whole thing about the NKs being bad is jusy sikly.
AMG is a good player who was pretty hard Town read early on and was correct about prplhz. Sensible NK.
Rsoultin was literally 100% townread and wasn't gonna be lynched in the next two cycles for sure, regardless of her role as VT. She was basically another medic for all intents and purposes.
Neither was a bad NK and this narrative that HF and Vivax are pushing that the NKs were suboptimal because the NKs weren't HF/Vivax is lame as fuck But we are punching moose to make sure? I think so actually. Because if Moosy is still alive tomorrow he gets autolynched I think. Ironically if it's you vs. HF, I think that's a more interesting duel Why would i be the autolynch against holyflare? lmao wtf this would be predicated on the fact that slam flips town. Also how is slam vs hf more interesting than moosy vs hf You would be the autolynch against Slam I think. Because I think you lose vs. HF no matter what your alignment is, no offense. Slam has been so off the walls that HF can't dissect every single thing he says. I can also see you being a part of the NKs more than HF tbh. I think it's a decent point in his favor; I just don't think it's correct to call a NK dumb. Maybe AMG was suboptimal, but rsoultin NK definitely wasn't dumb.
Who cares right now, how much easier HF manipulates the town into a Slam mislynch, vs. how easily he manipulates the town into a Moosy mislynch? He's going to get them BOTH.
Who cares right now, how dumb the kills were or weren't? Is that helping you know where to put your vote? None of this shit looks productive!
IS THERE A CASE ON MOOSY?
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On March 14 2018 07:32 rsoultin wrote:
Slam is the most townread of you three which you'd know if you'd read.
I just struggle to see why the mafia team would feel the need to pocket me with a 'save', though I don't like this 'cba to lynch my scumread' thing coming from df.
It wouldn't be to pocket you, it's to make DF "confirmed town" so the other medics are killed first.
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On March 14 2018 07:52 MoosyDoosy wrote:
tl;dr
kill me here
vivax/holyflare one possibility
darthfoley tinfoil another. DOn't discredit this possibility
I like how your tl;dr is more lines than any of your other posts. Anyway, enjoy being dead. And Alakaslam, enjoy being the N3 kill! zzzzzz
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EPT
