EPTEdit: I would probably have the all KP (town or mafia) resolve simultaneously, unless the setup is designed otherwise. Feels like that has the least affect on gameplay.
[M][N] Vendée Globe 16' Mafia
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Trfel
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Edit: I would probably have the all KP (town or mafia) resolve simultaneously, unless the setup is designed otherwise. Feels like that has the least affect on gameplay. | ||
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On February 05 2018 02:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: In advance i will say that next week i am working an evening shift so unfortunately i cannot be around most likely any end of phase in the last 8 hours.  On February 06 2018 05:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: Liar = mafia?Hi. I am town. | ||
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I'll read Mocsta's case soon. | ||
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On February 06 2018 11:48 darthfoley wrote: You take this more seriously than Mocsta's drawing attention to rsoultin's comment about the serial killer?Basically if I were super tired and woke up to post, I would probably not make the second post with typos about going back to bed. For me, I would just be exhausted and fall asleep. The second post sounded like one of those "update on activity" posts mafia sometimes feel like they have to make | ||
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On February 06 2018 12:21 Conversion wrote: Her nitpicky post just seemed pretty forced to try and make something out of obviously nothing. I see that more scum than town. On February 06 2018 06:52 Conversion wrote: In that case, why did you ask this question to mderg, if you agreed with his assessment?I am curious as to what part of her sharing her opinion on my obviously joke post on HF being Serial Killer sounds bullshitty | ||
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On February 06 2018 12:24 Conversion wrote: First of all, thank you for answering.Because calling people's opinions bullshitty doesn't make sense in my head, and is also seemingly forced to try and look active? I don't get this line of questioning. I can ask people about their motivations even if I may agree with them Yes you can ask for motivations even if you don't agree. It just really doesn't seem like you cared about mderg's answer, it doesn't seem like you were actually interested at all. To me it reads like: you thought it was weird that rsoultin picked on your joke post and not the others. Someone else disliked the same thing as you. You then asked them about it, and didn't seem to draw anything from their response. While at the same time, you cared enough about rsoultin's comments to ultimately vote her for it, but not enough to say it? Like if I were in your shoes, I would have been much more interested in talking about rsoultin's comments and why they were suspicious than I would be in questioning someone who agrees with me. Did I explain that coherently enough? | ||
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#1: Rsoultin isn't attempting to discern raynpelikoneet's motives #2: Inconsistency with respect to whether or not the serial killer discussion is actually important #3: Passive-aggressively throwing suspicion at other players while giving a way out #4: Not attempting to find mafia between Conversion and Holyflare If those are wrong, then don't bother with the following questions. I looked (very briefly) at rsoultin's last game that you linked, how is a post like this different from what you're seeing in this game with respect to the passive-aggressive play and pushing suspicion? I'm not seeing a significant difference. Also I am not sure what makes you think that rsoultin thinks there is mafia between Conversion and Holyflare in the first place? Or am I missing that? | ||
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I'm pretty sure I see what you're getting at but Holflare tends to destroy hopes and dreams as mafia, I'm just curious as to how you're so confident so quickly. Also, how serious is your read on Koshi? | ||
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On February 06 2018 13:18 Conversion wrote: It's not really that you did something other than what I would do. It's that the series of posts doesn't seem to show that you cared at all about your read on rsoultin. I do indeed think that it is suspicious that you had a read on rsoultin that you didn't seem to care enough about that you then decided to vote her for and then ask others to join you in.I can concede to your points, but if I can ask again.. where is this leading? Do you think I'm scummy because of your aforementioned points? The jist of your arguments is that you find my play style not aligned with how you would play.. but what comes from that. Does that make me scummy because I have done something that isn't within the realm of how you would play if you were town? On a change of subject, Conversion, what did you get out of Mocsta's case on rsoultin? Because frankly I'm having trouble understanding it, and you seemed to find it decently convincing. What stood out to you about it? | ||
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@Mocsta, thanks for explaining. I will let the meta point drop. I'm really sorry, I have no clue what you're trying to say for #4. If it's really important I can try again, otherwise I don't really agree with your read right now so I don't think it's significant. | ||
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On February 06 2018 13:19 Conversion wrote: Fair enough. I feel that when someone asks a question, gets a response, and doesn't mention it again, that they didn't really care about it in the first place, but I'm willing to drop this point.I also don't get how you determined that I did not care about mderg's comment-- he answered me indirectly by answering rsoultin and said bullshitty was the wrong word for it, so I had no more to follow up on it. On February 06 2018 13:36 Mocsta wrote: Yeah I'm not necessarily opposed to talking more about the rsoultin read, I'd just rather have Conversion answer my above question first (for obvious reasons). And I don't really see it making me vote for rsoultin.Appreciate you looking through it anyways. I read through the game again, and Im not as certain as I was prior either - perhaps because this discussion with conversion has (in a good way) taken me off focusing on myself. Having said that, I personally see sufficient change between this and last game to maintain my vote - even though its not a meta case! Do you see anything sinister with DF? Im struggling to understand his logic (in particular related to me); however, I also think that he is too accepting of the spotlight to be mafia vibes. I'm not thrilled about darthfoley, to be honest. I also felt that his read on you didn't make a ton of sense, waiting for his explanation on that again. I didn't like the way that he seems suspicious of everything: no townreads, suspicious of both rsoultin and you, and suspicious of both Conversion's introduction and rsoultin's comment about it. Makes me feel like he's trying to keep all of his options open. He's probably my #2 suspect, after Conversion. | ||
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On February 06 2018 10:06 Conversion wrote: "I'd be pretty okay with an rsoultin lynch with what you posted", to me this means that he liked the reasons that Mocsta posted and agreed. However, in his above post, he said "His case made me think a bit more about rsoultin and then I put my reasons out in my filter". But the reason that he stated for voting rsoultin isn't at all what Mocsta said in his case.Fair point on me being nitpicky. That's just how I am. Also, agreed I was being lazy in not bringing up anything related to rsoultin but I do not know what "weird" is in terms of meta. I did find her behavior objectively weirder in randomly nitpicking (to steal your word) on my joke post, and harp on others for it. Not sure if that makes her mafia, but at this point in time I'd be pretty okay with an rsoultin lynch with what you posted, so I'll sheep Also, On February 06 2018 14:11 Conversion wrote: What about this?1) I never tried to get other people on rsoultin. I stated that in my head (whenever I voted her) that she was the best lynch at that time. On February 06 2018 12:21 Conversion wrote: Thanks, hun. You want to commit to something? I'd be perfectly good with a rsoultin lynch right now, what about you? | ||
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Your reasoning for voting for rsoultin here and your case here don't really seem to be the same at all. Can you explain this? I do see what you're saying about your point #2, I don't see it as a big deal, though. To me, the importance of something can change over time, as it's relative. It makes sense to me that rsoultin saw the serial killer comment as being important relative to the other things in the thread at the time, but irrelevant compared to actual reads and following discussions. So in some ways it's both important and unimportant at once. On February 06 2018 14:22 Conversion wrote: If you would prefer I'm willing to give you space and see what you do with it. I'm not trying to misrepresent what you do, I'm trying to see the thought that is behind your posts to figure out your alignment; to that end if I do misinterpret them I am sorry. Right now I am having some trouble believing some of the things you have said, but I would be interested in your reads on the rest of the game if you have any.Meh, probably shouldn't have posted at this hour. I'll concede that I glossed over that part of my filter, so I fucked up there. But that post to ritoky was making him try to commit to something, not trying to get him get onto the rsoultin train. I just am confused as to why you're doing this thing where you bring up a good point, then right after misrepresent another thing I do/say into a fitting argument.. | ||
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On February 06 2018 14:46 Mocsta wrote: I understand better now. Thanks for clarifying. That thought process makes enough sense.Hi Trfel. Thanks for delivering one half of a shit sandwich lol  I wonder why you dont think they are related? I still comment on passive aggression. The anger/emotive component was removed as I didnt register it as strongly on a re-read. I wrote a wall of text because A - I wanted to walk people through how I reached my conclusion - which does not appear to be successful B - I decided to write a case because of the sum of the filter, not any one particular part. Regarding Point #2 = commenting on importance of raising discussion. This is of great significance to me as a gut feeling heuristic. Essentially, I have only played one game with town!rsoultin but I have tremendous respect, and thus, expectation for how she approaches the game. Perhaps as DF commented, it is simply too early; but I find point #2 in particular falls in the complete opposite flow of that expectation. P.S you are super town to me That's fair. I am not super confident in rsoultin's alignment honestly, I slightly think she is town but could be wrong. I generally don't like to defend others though, would be interested to see what rsoultin says about it. Kinda going to bed. Mocsta and ritoky probably town, partially for sharing my reads. Partially for Mocsta for having a thoughtful approach to the game, willing to share his thoughts and reconsider. Partially for ritoky for making good comments but not seeming to care a ton, I feel like he'd be much more involved as mafia. Holyflare is a town lean despite the fact that he could fool me even if I saw he received a mafia role pm . | ||
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On February 06 2018 14:20 Trfel wrote: The last quote wasn't out of context. If you look at what was happening in the thread (starting here), you know that ritoky says that rsoultin is probably town, and then Mocsta asks why, and ritoky gives a reason. Then Conversion made that post. Conversion definitely should have seen ritoky's posts, as they were 6+ minutes later and he posted in between. To me, if you're asking someone for how they feel about lynching someone when they just said that they were townreading them means that you're trying to change their mind and get support for the lynch. Not just asking what they think.I feel like Conversion is highly inconsistent. I'm not sold on him being mafia but I'm pretty suspicious."I'd be pretty okay with an rsoultin lynch with what you posted", to me this means that he liked the reasons that Mocsta posted and agreed. However, in his above post, he said "His case made me think a bit more about rsoultin and then I put my reasons out in my filter". But the reason that he stated for voting rsoultin isn't at all what Mocsta said in his case. Also, What about this? | ||
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On February 06 2018 21:24 Holyflare wrote: Darthfoley hasn't done much yet. I'm not super fond of what he's done but I'm not confident enough to push it quite yet. I don't really see a push on darthfoley being productive at this time.Trfel why aren't you voting df? You have him dead to rights with that earlier post. On February 06 2018 23:35 Conversion wrote: My concluding statement about you was one post before that one (I found/find you suspicious but want more time to think about it and more information to work with).How did you end the night without having a followup conclusion on me? Are you still suspicious of me being mafia? This is also weird play to me. You spent a majority of your time calling me inconsistent and pointing stuff out from my filter, but you couldn't be bothered to summarize that interaction? | ||
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On February 07 2018 00:54 Koshi wrote: Would you be willing to explain your prplhz read a bit? Prplhz said about me "His play seems kind of sideliney and too cautious, everybody agreeing with him seems to calm him down rather than fire him up", which to me does seem to be about mafia mindset. Were it not for this I'd be much more understanding of your read.Prplhz made a post about ritoky being town and I didnt like the reasoning. When I read ritoky his reads I might agree with them but I dont townread ritoky for them because they lacked content. Prplhz just calls him town for it. I dont like the not critical view. On top of that the reasoning to call out tfrel was weak and superficial. It had nothing to do with mafia mindset or anything. While tfrel made already so many well thought out post I did not like he nitpicks the post he did and ignored the rest. Also dont like the fact that he first townreads ritoky and then attacks tfrel about something he said about ritoky. Feels funny. On February 07 2018 02:09 Conversion wrote: I didn't read it like option #2 at all, I honestly didn't even see it as a possibility. I read it like option #1, and as I tried to explain, the context was what made it read like you wanted ritoky to lynch rsoultin with you. I guess I'll step back and figure out what's really going on then.This is just a very far-reaching statement. You don't know what I meant by that statement aside from that either 1) I was asking ritoky to either share his opinion of rsoultin with me, or 2) I was asking ritoky who he wanted to lynch. Either of those statements is not a direct translation to "I want you to lynch rsoultin with me," which is what you were saying I was attempting to do. | ||
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Not asking for past posts as much as what's compelling to you at this moment. Doesn't have to be a long answer, a short summary is fine. | ||
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I'm not really sold on ritoky being mafia. I guess I'm not confident in him either way, he's been reminding me of Outlaw Mafia I believe it was. He's been lazy and underwhelming but I don't see why that makes him mafia at this time. | ||
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With Koshi, I don't like how he's voting for mderg but hasn't said any reason why. He did however say why he doesn't like prplhz (which pending explanation I don't think was a good reason). If he wants to lynch mderg, why wouldn't he explain why? Or if he is suspicious enough of prplhz to explain it, why doesn't he vote for him? In addition, he went from leaning town to green, bold town on rsoultin for seemingly no reason. The reasons he gave to fully townread rsoultin were present from the very start of the game, when Koshi left rsoultin out of his first set of townreads and only later made her even a town lean. Rsoultin didn't say much at all in between these posts, certainly little to warrant a read switch like that. But I know that it's Koshi. What do others think about him? | ||
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On February 07 2018 08:03 darthfoley wrote: Well, I have at least stated why I see it that way. Care to explain why I'm wrong in that? See here, here. If anything recent posts have only supported my suspicions IMO.Trfel's "reason" to scumread me is lame as fuck and is also not true in the slightest I'm happy to listen but you've got to give me some sort of anything, really. | ||
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On February 07 2018 09:31 Holyflare wrote: Nothing from rsoultin, no one really pushing anything else...Also I'm officially at peak this wagon is going too fast levels. @Mocsta, I was slightly town on rsoultin, as seen here. I was convinced by Conversion's reasoning, what he said made a lot of sense to me. Koshi posted his new read change with old reasoning from the start of the game. To me that's suspicious. You can think of me what you want, I'm just curious what you think of Koshi. | ||
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On February 07 2018 14:09 Mocsta wrote: I said that because I don't really care to talk much about my alignment, just wanted to make sure that you knew that was all I had to say on the matter.This type of comment makes me paranoid as it seems very preemptive. I pinged you about rsoultin because you "snuck" a vote in, but nothing was stated in thread. I cant recall anythign Koshi has posted other than some old filters I ignored. Will update opinion once I conclude re-read. What do you think about ritoky, as well? I'm not sure I'm townreading him strongly any more but even though he's been pretty lazy I still kinda think he's town. I don't like that he seems so self-focused, spends so much time talking about himself instead of the game, but his reads seem to show actual thought, which I do like. I don't really like how Koshi is townreading rsoultin but not really doing anything at all about the lynch. Heck, I'd say Holyflare and you are doing more to avoid a rsoultin lynch despite scumreading her than Koshi is and he's townreading her. Like if I was happily confident in a small pool where mafia were, and was voting for one, and had a strong townread who was being lynched, I'd be much more passionate about it than what Koshi is doing. Feels like he's setting up a potential "I told you so" after the flip. And if it's not clear I'm not a big fan of the rsoultin lynch right now... Not sure what is better, if anything. Not that I'm not suspicious of rsoultin but the way the day has been playing out makes me very hesitant. | ||
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Says that mderg, prplhz, and the two afk's may contain two mafia. Votes for mderg, explains his reason for scumreading prplhz, not mderg. Townreads the biggest wagon (rsoultin), doesn't at all seem very invested in that townread or care enough about his "pretty good" scum pool to even say why he's suspicious of those people. Seems perfectly happy to let his townread get lynched over his scumreads. But he cares enough to make a huge list of all of ritoky's games and look at his reads on ritoky in each one. To me this just doesn't add up. | ||
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Koshi's actually playing the game, which is great, but makes me less inclined to lynch him. Been avoiding thinking about darthfoley. Feel so lost I'll try and figure out what's going on but if someone wants to talk about something let me know. | ||
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On February 07 2018 15:50 Mocsta wrote: Yes, I changed my mind on Conversion because of his post on rsoultin (primarily that anyway). Conversion's analysis was good, regardless of rsoultin's alignment. He's been underwhelming since then, but I'm fine with him as town for now.trfel, i will get back to you tonight on those reads - i havent had the time at work today i was intending. I want to ask you some more questions, but im concerned they are already answered in the thread (e.g. i didnt realise conversion made addition points about rsoultin as you ?alluded? before) However, I am immediately curious about your position conversion. Yesterday he was a scum lean. Today, I assume you changed your mind because of his rsoultin rationale. And voted rsoultin. NOW, you have unvoted rsoultin; how does that influence the read on conversion? I do find it a bit weird that rsoultin says that her suspicion of Conversion wasn't her strongest read at the time (see here), but she voted for Conversion. Why are Koshi/Conversion/Mocsta/etc picking on mderg for having 10 scumreads? To me that seems to be a horrid misinterpretation of mderg's post. I only see him scumreading darthfoley, rsoultin, and Koshi. Is the argument that he's mentioning the things that make him suspicious of each person, focusing on reasons to be suspicious of people rather than reasons to townread them? I see nothing wrong with this. Not that I have a read on mderg myself yet, I just am not sure what this argument is saying. Conversion, rsoultin's read on me is heavily meta based. I can explain it for you if you'd like but if you really wanted to understand it you'd have to do a decent amount of reading and I doubt it would be worth it, especially since I haven't played in over a year and I've probably changed since then. | ||
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Personally I'm not a fan of his read progression on rsoultin. Feels like he goes from nothing to serial killer post was exaggerated to I see some of Mocsta's stuff (but the quality/accuracy of the read doesn't make me townread Mocsta) to passive-aggressiveness to not town rsoultin. Feels like following thread sentiment without adding much. The Mocsta thing really sticks out to me. Did mderg agree with Mocsta's case? It seems like he did, since he was saying that he was seeing it and the biggest reasons he (mderg) is suspicious of rsoultin for are in it. But his own read on Mocsta is that he (Mocsta) is town because of being focused instead of jumping around. Nothing at all to do with Mocsta's suspicions of rsoultin that mderg himself seems to agree with strongly enough to vote. Does anyone else see that? @Koshi, I see what you're saying now. I guess I don't expect everyone to solve the game by POE, I know that I don't. Not opposed to the rest of what you're saying though. Thanks for explaining your prplhz/mderg thing earlier, by the way, that really helped. I had missed rsoultin asking for your prplhz read. | ||
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I dunno about prplhz. I'm not a huge fan of him but I don't think he's anywhere near as suspicious as mderg given the point above. The main thing I personally find suspicious about prplhz is that it seems as if he is townreading rsoultin for towncredit. Prplhz, if you are there, why do you townread rsoultin? | ||
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On February 08 2018 00:53 mderg wrote: The last sentence, I don't see that at all in your filter. You've said that your townread on Mocsta is due to staying focused and not jumping around like he did last game as mafia.rsoultin read progression was something like: didn't like the serial killer post to rsoultin feels passive-aggressive, so doesn't look like town rsoultin. I guess that's pretty close to thread sentiment but I've never claimed that I didn't sheep. My townread on Mocsta is largely based on his rsoultin case. I think that says enough. On February 07 2018 20:53 mderg wrote: To me this doesn't say anything about what you think about his case/read on rsoultin itself, it talks about the way he's pushing (focused, with direction vs opportunistic, pushing everyone). Still listening if I am missing something though.Pretty much everything early on revolved around his scumread on rsoultin and his desire to get her lynched. Last game it felt like he latched onto every other case without any focus on who he actually voted or wanted to lynch. Heading out for class, voting mderg for now. The above seems very inconsistent. Mderg also doesn't seem to care if people are making reads and sharing thoughts that he agrees with; it doesn't affect his read on the person who posted the thoughts at all. | ||
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Didn't read the thread, may not for a while, but good work everyone ^^ | ||
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 I don't really feel like mderg was playing to survive there. At least not with the darthfoley push. I feel like if mderg was strongly trying to get a new wagon going, he would have at least quoted some reasons or asked for support or something. It felt like he was resigned to his fate. To that end, voting analysis would suggest that rsoultin is town. It's just not a good play to be perfectly set up for a double bus and go for a double stupid instead. Still sorta reading up but let me know if you want to talk about anything | ||
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Not impressed by disformation's posts to this point. He was following the game before the flip, he said as much. Which means that if he is mafia, he was reading the game and trying to analyze it before getting his role PM. Absolutely nothing prevents him from sharing most or all of his (honestly generated) thoughts as mafia here. It'll take a bit of time to be able to read him, I think. That said, hi disformation, good to play with you again I don't really think that End of Day makes prplhz town. That means that he was here to have the chance to change his vote and didn't do it. So if you're saying that he's town, then you're saying that he was town and saw a close lynch while he's townreading rsoultin and didn't bother to vote onto a wagon? To me it's more likely that he wasn't here, or that if he was here he didn't know what to do/didn't care enough. Feels very non alignment indicative to me. I'm still slightly leaning town on prplhz for other reasons (here and here, though the second does rely on me being right that rsoultin is town), but he's just done so freaking little. So I guess the only real suspect for me is darthfoley. Rsoultin, you really think that Conversion is mafia here? | ||
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We've been having scarily similar reads all game, except now you're scumreading one of my strongest townreads... Like is it just the explosion? Or is there more to it? | ||
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I guess I'm pretty confident that Conversion is town. Emotional outburst aside even. I don't think it's suspicious of him at all at end of day. If he's mafia, why would he set himself up for a switch into mderg, and then stay the course on rsoultin even when it's not looking good? And again, mderg wasn't trying to survive, he was giving up. It doesn't make sense for mderg and Conversion to be a team here; Conversion wouldn't try to save an mderg who wasn't trying to save himself. There's more to it than that, his reads themselves I feel show actual desire to solve the game and good thinking. He seems invested in his reads and the lynches and is willing to interact with others to help solve the game together. Some of the stuff he says is ridiculously suspicious (like saying he needs to read his own filter more carefully) but I don't think that's significant because mafia wouldn't be inclined to say that either. I don't have much reason to lynch him and I have plenty of reasons to townread him. | ||
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On February 08 2018 17:24 rsoultin wrote: Wait you're right mderg was town last game >< All the same I stand by it. Post #717 (list post thing) is where he says mderg looked the same as his town game, but #719 and #780 could have led to a read flip IMO. Hm, looking deeper...Nh. Idk I find the outburst hard to get past. I hear you on why not mderg, but the other part is hed just gone to the trouble of saying that this looked like mderg's town game. Could be he didn't know how to shift his read, especially given I don't think he ever had a reason to townread me. Seems he committed to staying on rsoultin at about the same time mderg switched his vote from rsoultin to darthfoley. However, mderg said "I think my rsoultin scumread may actually be stupid here" 13 minutes previously. That's a huge, huge, huge miscommunication if they're mafia together. And if mafia was really trying to keep mderg alive, they could have asked mderg to vote to save himself; no one can ever be blamed for voting to save themself. I stand by the read. Like, if they're mafia together, then Conversion did set himself up for either voting mderg or rsoultin. He still went the opposite direction as mderg did. That's not a result of not knowing how to switch, that would only be the result of an incredible mafia team breakdown that I don't think is likely at all (much less something to scumread Conversion over). | ||
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On February 09 2018 00:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is actually super funny ^^Idk whish is worse, disfo asking a guy who gave 3 scumreads when 2 mafia left who is his 4th scumread or conversion actually answering it.... | ||
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On February 09 2018 01:23 Holyflare wrote: This is a very good point.Damdred is mafia for this whole post. You don't have the mderg wagon being full of pure people but simultaneously think both wagons were mafia. My vote absolutely looks like credit grabbing in that world. I had a case on rsoul and voted the leading wagon? Nah Don't buy it at all. Damdred is my lynch. | ||
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Correct me if I am missing something but going into EoD you were kinda townreading rsoultin and suspicious of mderg. Then both rsoultin and mderg did similar plays (not voting each other to save themselves). This caused you to not want to lynch mderg but vote for rsoultin instead, correct? I saw that you said that this is because rsoultin wasn't in actual danger while mderg actually was. The question is really why do you say that? Mderg was only leading rsoultin by one vote with people still to vote and no one would have blamed mderg for switching back. I don't see why rsoultin wasn't in danger there. Second question, I may have missed this, but what is it that makes you think the mderg voters are all pure? | ||
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