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On January 24 2018 19:10 beentheredonethat wrote:
Hm, summarizing:
- having a Cop is unlikely with a vig in (see above)
- his checks are meh
- roleblocker is confirmed, so if we leave him alive for another check, scum will just roleblock and not kill him.
- no counter claim, so if it is a fakeclaim, the real blue stays alive and un-outed
Actually, I think lynching Damerion is a good idea.
added to that, very important, he was the most likely lynch coming into D3.
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On January 24 2018 19:30 justanothertownie wrote:
Parrot!Rels on the case again.
how does that feel to be the one being parroted ? p:
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On January 24 2018 20:41 Mocsta wrote:
Do you think we can vote for early day?
it's almost always a bad idea. The more time we have to think about all of this the better
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that explains the weird posts earlier. But I find them passive. Talking about:
On January 24 2018 17:44 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 17:11 justanothertownie wrote:
This is really nice. If people in this game can't read me they just have to take a look at the posts of Twat in the early game. Insanely towny. Even more suspicious how HF instantly puts this slot in his 2 player scum pile at the start of the dayphase. Is it suspicious at all though?
On January 24 2018 17:46 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 16:44 justanothertownie wrote:
Right now I don't really think we should give damerion the luxury of outing a protective role with his fakeclaim depending on how improbable cop+vig already is. You think there's a protective role that healed afk btdt 2 nights in a row?
On January 24 2018 17:47 Holyflare wrote:
Nevermind that healers are almost always nerfed?
On January 24 2018 17:48 Holyflare wrote:
I would still believe btdt over Damerion though after d1 vote count.
Like, you just learned that BTDT AND Damerion both claimed blue. This is huge info, one of them is scum! Damerion, who you thought during the night was cop, got counterclaimed! But instead of raging reactions, we got this. It seems very underwhelming for such a realization.
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On January 24 2018 22:11 Damerion wrote:
Firstly I cannot say anything to past setups or if this one is to imbalanced for town, my checks were what I thought were the best at the moment and if I did not get the godfather we had three confirmed town with what to me seems very likely a fourth town in HolyFlare.
I agree it's shitty to be attacked over something you have no control over. It doesn't make the accusation any less true. 13 players setups with 2 strong investigative roles are:
- town favored
- rare, so unlikely to be in a newbie game
- in all 3 previous student iteration by this host, he had the standard 1 investigative + 1 protective in his 13 players games, and even going for only 1 investigative in his 12 players game for some reason.
So, when you add the fact that it's basically the best moment to claim if you're scum, given that you're the prime lynch candidate, it's difficult to believe you.
On January 24 2018 22:11 Damerion wrote:
In any case, I still think BTDT, Mocsta and Holyflare are town in this situation, and I understand that I am the probable lynch today in any case. I have green checks on the first two, HolyFlare should of killed me as scum and he somewhat dumb telled himself when he was going over roles that scum should have to counteract a Vig+Cop when he included a framer which I do not believe is possible by the OP.
HF can definitely fake something like that, so it doesn't prove anything.
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On January 25 2018 00:56 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 05:45 KelsierSC wrote:
reckon the mafia QT was like
darth - Yo HF, damerion get back in the thread i'm getting fucked
hf, damerion - got your back fam.
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this is not town damdred
look at damdred he is so scum.
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dramatised obvz. This post. Next level.
yep p:
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On January 25 2018 01:10 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 06:09 rsoultin wrote:On January 20 2018 06:06 Holyflare wrote:On January 20 2018 05:39 rsoultin wrote:On January 20 2018 05:24 Holyflare wrote:
This
Is
Not
Town
Damdred No problem with lynching btdt or damdred. Now you're making noise. Didn't you dislike df before? No I also dislike df but I won't lie and say that I've read anything he's said. Have no problem lynching him but I'm very very sure on damdred. No way he keeps both of these mafia reads for the whole game. So why are you more fine with btdt than df? You didn't seem to be concerned at all about the btdt counterwagon and now you're yelling. Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 06:33 rsoultin wrote:On January 20 2018 06:30 Holyflare wrote:
Hey your accusation is changing. Better get that in check. I had a bit of free time at work previously to skim and see a btdt post where he fucked off said lol mafia and went about working again. Now I'm home with more free time and am posting more.
What you're seemingly saying is that I'm doing mafia things deflecting off df when he's going up for lynch even though I'm saying I don't care if he dies. Even though I've stuck to my same scum reads and have pushed the same things.
Maybe I should be less active instead then? No, I mean you claiming that your difference in behavior to two different counterwagons is related to work is unverifiable. Could you perhaps have only time to read one post and that explains your reaction? Sure. Could it be you are scum and we're now pushing scum so suddenly it's more important to push the counterwagon, i.e. damdred? Sure. There is no way for me to know which of the two it is. It looks suspicious if darth foley flips scum because of that. No more, no less. Feel free to be as active as you like. I'm done with you for now. ^^^^ Interesting observation considering the damdred/darthfoley flips. The question is: is this coincidence and does HF just have a really bad towngame or is he simply mafia?
I changed my mind a few times regarding this question. But HF total lack of interest when he thought we had a claim / counterclaim situation + him believing Damerion instantly make me think he's scum and just faking this apathy. Cause it's the only thing me and rsoul townread him for.
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On January 25 2018 01:18 justanothertownie wrote:
Well, he is really blatantly pushing mafia agenda eod1. No shame whatsoever. But HF is the guy to do this. What exactly was the reason to townread him? Because in the lead up to the lynch where it was a race between a town and a mafia there is absolutely no apathy to be found.
continue to read. And maybe apathy is the wrong choice of words, but it's the fact that his reads are static and haven't changed at all since the beginning of the game. I would expect scum!HF's game to be stronger than this. But now I think HF know this and is abusing it to appear "too scummy to be scum" compared to the expectation of his scum play.
If he was town, him accepting Damerion's claim at face value is absolutely dumb. It's not only static reads anymore.
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On January 25 2018 01:29 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2018 01:14 Rels wrote:On January 25 2018 01:10 justanothertownie wrote:On January 20 2018 06:09 rsoultin wrote:On January 20 2018 06:06 Holyflare wrote:On January 20 2018 05:39 rsoultin wrote:On January 20 2018 05:24 Holyflare wrote:
This
Is
Not
Town
Damdred No problem with lynching btdt or damdred. Now you're making noise. Didn't you dislike df before? No I also dislike df but I won't lie and say that I've read anything he's said. Have no problem lynching him but I'm very very sure on damdred. No way he keeps both of these mafia reads for the whole game. So why are you more fine with btdt than df? You didn't seem to be concerned at all about the btdt counterwagon and now you're yelling. On January 20 2018 06:33 rsoultin wrote:On January 20 2018 06:30 Holyflare wrote:
Hey your accusation is changing. Better get that in check. I had a bit of free time at work previously to skim and see a btdt post where he fucked off said lol mafia and went about working again. Now I'm home with more free time and am posting more.
What you're seemingly saying is that I'm doing mafia things deflecting off df when he's going up for lynch even though I'm saying I don't care if he dies. Even though I've stuck to my same scum reads and have pushed the same things.
Maybe I should be less active instead then? No, I mean you claiming that your difference in behavior to two different counterwagons is related to work is unverifiable. Could you perhaps have only time to read one post and that explains your reaction? Sure. Could it be you are scum and we're now pushing scum so suddenly it's more important to push the counterwagon, i.e. damdred? Sure. There is no way for me to know which of the two it is. It looks suspicious if darth foley flips scum because of that. No more, no less. Feel free to be as active as you like. I'm done with you for now. ^^^^ Interesting observation considering the damdred/darthfoley flips. The question is: is this coincidence and does HF just have a really bad towngame or is he simply mafia? I changed my mind a few times regarding this question. But HF total lack of interest when he thought we had a claim / counterclaim situation + him believing Damerion instantly make me think he's scum and just faking this apathy. Cause it's the only thing me and rsoul townread him for. What was the correct reaction? You have to see it from my perspective tbh. I spend the game looking at Damerion giving him the massive benefit of the doubt and crumbing cop all night so I'm excited that I was actually right. Then btdt claims rb on my way into work and I'm deflated af because I think it's a cc and my ego takes another hit at being wrong so I just auto vote Damerion and go to work (which is super busy) and don't care much more than that.
Not that. And come to think of it, I'm pretty sure you would never soft that you thought damerion was blue during the night. As town that gets you nothing. As scum that prepares damerion s claim.
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Like, you usually spout bullshit about roles during the night to confuse scum. But not only you don't do this this game, you even soft that you found a blue, risking him being killed or roleblocked for no gain if scum understands you.
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Im pretty sure that makes you scum actually. Gotta have to reread what you've softed exactly when I'm home.
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On January 25 2018 02:36 Kmatt wrote:
I don't like lynching Damerion here without a counterclaim. It may not have been the best plan to spill the beans at the moment, but lynching him wins us no information at this point, and is unlikely to flip red (unless there's a counterclaim. Doc, if you're out there, now would be a good time). Even if he gets suppressed the rest of the game, he still votes with the town and/or eats a nightkill. As it stands BTDT or maybe HF are the better lynches.
I understand the sentiment. But do your research to see if it's likely that we have two strong investigative roles: it's not. And apart from that, Damerion is the most scummy person in the thread, it's not like he's being lynched for his claim alone.
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OK so I reread N2 to check that thing about HF softing he knew Damerion was blue. And it makes no sense if HF is town.
It starts with the first big post Damerion made after coming back, in which he had this part:
On January 24 2018 01:48 Damerion wrote:
It was simple I am supremely confident in my ability to read the game and make decisions. And I believe highly even at this moment I will find scum and will not be lynched, in fact after the night is over I believe you will be unable to lynch me.
To which HF immediately reacted:
On January 24 2018 02:19 Holyflare wrote:Lol I really like where this is going. I'm confirmed not mafia after tonight 
So. HF saw the hint that Damerion is blue, and immediately post it in the thread. Why ? What's the point of doing it if HF is town ? It gains town nothing. It's actually detrimental to the town, because if scum manage to understand it, they can use this information and kill or roleblock Damerion.
Then it happens again. In another post later on, Damerion softs on his "green check" on Mocsta:
On January 24 2018 03:12 Damerion wrote:
In either case tomorrow I am sure I will find scum and be a hero again.
Right now for instance I am sure Mocsta is town, there is no doubt in my mind. Holyflare and yourself are also high but not as high as him.
And HF reacts with these two posts, showing again he thinks Damerion is blue, and more precisely, cop with a green check on mocsta:
On January 24 2018 04:32 Holyflare wrote:
Mocsta is my biggest town read too
On January 24 2018 08:03 Holyflare wrote:
No, for real. Now that he's said it I can see it.
Once again, why ? The reasonning is the same as above. It's even obvious in retrospective, anyone searching for blue in the thread will pick it up - IE scums.
So. It makes no sense for a town perspective to act like that. It makes total sense from a scum perspective though. The benefits are twofold:
- it makes HF appear smart and thinking about the game. The ironic thing about it is that it's totally about the appearance. It only serves to appear townie; but when you take the time to think about the town motivation behind it, there is none, and it's actually detrimental to the town. Total scum pointer there.
- if Damerion is his partner, this is a play prepared by both of them. It prepares the claim that will happen after the night is over:
On January 24 2018 09:07 Holyflare wrote:
If Damerion isn't claiming cop with a green check on mocsta then all is wrong with the world.
And it attempts to gain towncred for HF:
On January 24 2018 09:06 Damerion wrote:
Holyflare caught me softing it and i seem to think it makes him town for me not being shot.
On January 24 2018 09:18 Damerion wrote:
And I disagree I think holyflare is more likely town in thia scenerio.
Now here comes the meta part of this post. I think the above is sufficient to make anyone scum and making me want to lynch them. What's even scummier is that Holyflare is a player that always tries to play mindgames with the scum in order to make them waste kills or actions on Vanilla Townie. For example, he often says weird thing during the night, or says some player is an obvious blue, to confuse the scum team.
But he has not done that this game. In contrario, he softed exactly who he thought was the cop 3 times in the thread. This is 100% against the way he plays.
Now this is a meta read, so you will have to read some town games of his to verify it if you never played with him. But I think at least JAT can attest to it.
TLDR: I think HF is scum, and I think Damerion & HF make perfect sense as a team. HF softing he thinks Damerion is blue during the night is (1) totally against a townie's interest and (2) totally against HF own meta. Furthermore, them being together actually explains these posts: it would mean they were preparing the fakeclaim as soon as Damerion re-entered the thread during N2.
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HF & Damerion being a team also explains Damerion's weird boner about HF, that's only based on "he posted in the thread he thought I was cop but didn't kill me".
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On January 25 2018 07:53 Holyflare wrote:
No, I actually wanted him to be shot.
since the most likely outcome in that scenario was him being roleblocked, that makes no sense.
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On January 25 2018 08:04 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2018 07:59 Rels wrote:On January 25 2018 07:53 Holyflare wrote:
No, I actually wanted him to be shot. since the most likely outcome in that scenario was him being roleblocked, that makes no sense. Maybe you should think a bit deeper than your current thinking and get behind the actual plan. If he's town and gets rbd and rsolutin dies: We know there is no medic and he is almost definitely town cop because they killed the only person in the game that looked really towny without hesitation. We confirm there's a rber in the game. If he's mafia and gets "rbd": They can't use their rb on another power role because it notifies and medic gets to save.
I can't believe you're arguing you softing the cop resulting in the cop being roleblocked is a good thing.
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you talked as if you knew there was a RB in the game when you made that decision too. Which we didn't know.
Basically you're entering "pointless debate" mode, like in EOD1 with rsoul
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On January 25 2018 08:06 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 23:01 Rels wrote:
So, when you add the fact that it's basically the best moment to claim if you're scum, given that you're the prime lynch candidate, it's difficult to believe you. Dont worry, my vote is staying where it is However, this batch of discussion (including JAT) is tunneled. Town or Mafia would feel pressured after Night2. I could see a blue hardclaiming in that circumstance. This is essentially a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't scenario. It doesnt matter though, the setup makes the claim extremely unlikely.
However, I was having trouble sleeping last night thinking of all the different perutations with this setup. One oddity I couldnt get past regarding the the BTDT roleblock claim, is that the vet can be roleblocked for 1-shot NK. Wouldnt ideal strategy be then to RB+NK? Otherwise, vet can not only claim they are reason there was no NK, but can also claim the RB which makes them confirmed town. I still cant fathom at all how a townie could vote to avoid modkill, but avoid sharing the roleblock knowledge. The timing of everything is just frustrating.
The fact that BTDT claimed being roleblocked is also in my mind, for that reason. But I don't think he's ever scum over Damerion & HF.
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On January 25 2018 08:08 Holyflare wrote:
you couldn't get much worse than he picked up activity after work which is coincidentally when the deadline is too so he's mafia argument though
that was not the real point, and you managed to derive the debate from it. Hence, pointless debate. Like you're doing now.
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I don't believe any of it. I wouldn't believe it even if I didn't see trying to WIFOM the scum team at night in other games. Knowing this, I think you would have done the exact opposite and said you scumread him a lot, before saying otherwise in the morning. Or trying to swap with him. Or something like that.
This is the stupid part that is not believable as long as the RBer is not flipped.
"They aren't going to shoot him because he's massive lynch bait and if he doesn't die and I've called out he's cop then I'll look better because he's not dead"
Doing it pretty much assures his check is not gonna go off. This is against town best interest. Your "but the medic wouldn't be RBed in that case and rsoul lives!" is so far fetched.
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EPT
