EPTNewbie Student Mafia XXIII
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Calix
3379 Posts
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Calix
3379 Posts
I don't mind a coach but I can function fine without one  | ||
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Calix
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His name is the most inaccurate thing I've ever seen. He's always unlucky in games :') | ||
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Calix
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Calix
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Of course. Lynching the scum is so much easier when you sneak into their private chat, didn't you know? It's just getting late here and I'm going to be busy for a lot of tomorrow with unpacking so I won't be super-active today. | ||
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Calix
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Calix
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On September 24 2016 07:11 Xatalos wrote: K. I'll be sleeping soon too. However, one thing - why did you decide to make a first post with only the content of claiming future inactivity? Because it's true. I'm not going to be lurking, just explaining why my activity isn't going to be as good as it was in my first game. It has nothing to do with my alignment since it's RL and I'd like to think that people aren't going to read into that. Lying about RL is unsportsmanlike. | ||
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Calix
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I got the impression that people tend to be pretty laid-back/ lazy around here myself. | ||
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Calix
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Anyhow, I'll just refresh the page for a bit or something. | ||
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Calix
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This conversation is only a rung up above spam. Go to sleep, ya nub. | ||
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Calix
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Threaten to lynch the scummy low-post players so that they post more. Threaten to vig the idiotic players so that they get smart. Even if there's no vig, nobody knows that so it forces the scum to post constructively and often or get fucked. Also means you don't stick yourself down in a policy lynch like an hour in, lol. The end. | ||
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Calix
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On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote: This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata. You only got two responses before claiming it was a reaction-test? | ||
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Calix
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@Daneler, were you going anywhere with your entrance post? All you did was agree with Jealous and point out that Stutters' entrance is odd. | ||
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Calix
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On September 24 2016 08:47 DanelerH wrote: I use "odd" and "strange" for I find something that might warrant suspicion, so that's what I was going with. Admittedly, not a strong lead, but I was hoping it would go somewhere. The best person to make things 'go somewhere' is yourself, dear. Expecting others to do the work is never going to work out and only demonstrates a lack of initiative. Since you proposed this line of thought, why do you think scum would open a post by claiming "non-scum" over say, "town" or not claiming at all or what have you? | ||
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Calix
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On September 24 2016 08:56 DanelerH wrote: I see no reason for Town to claim anything. They only care about getting the Mafia lynched. Mafia, however, wants Town to think they're also Town. By saying "I'm not Mafia" or "I'm Town", they can attempt to establish it early on, which is why I find it to be something that warrants suspicion. That's something you're characterising as not-town to do, not mafia. Question. Does your logic also apply to claiming a TPR? (so if a person claimed TPR, would you suspect them because you see no reason for town to claim and if not, why? Just curious because it sounds like that is what you are implying here) Otherwise I like how this answer was set out. Simple and direct. | ||
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Calix
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I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff. On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote: Interesting idea. What does this achieve? Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^ Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night. Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis. I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely. As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself) Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense. Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange: On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote: This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata. Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention. Stutters: My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play. Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation. It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here. On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote: Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread? Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people?  Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here? If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone? | ||
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Calix
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 Can't quote anything right now so I'll use post numbers if I want to make a point. ptmc, I'm not sure if you're still scum-reading SoulQueen but RVS is NAI, although it's not something that people on this site engage in. It's something that some other mafia sites do to start the game off. My site often does this to 'generate discussion' - it's not effective but people do it anyway. So if that's the only reason you're scum-reading SoulQueen then you should really reconsider, lol. The only questionable thing is them voting for Stutters when he was being suspected a bit and that means nothing until we know what Stutters is. | ||
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??? #278 is a generic defense with the "makes sense from scum perspective but also from town" from DanelerH. His case on Lunatic is also pretty bad. (he made one town-read and refuses to explain it - this is more indicative of stubbornness/ stupidity because all you get out of doing that is drawing a stupid amount of attention to yourself) Daneler made that post after Rels questioned Lunatic. I'm noticing a pattern of Daneler accusing people after someone else has (first with Stutters and then with Lunatic) so I suspect a bandwagoner on the loose here given he's done it twice now. Overall, I am still undecided on Daneler. Not because he has done nothing AI whatsoever but every time I think he's town, he does something sketchy and vice versa so I don't even fucking know what to make of him. Right now, Lunatic's more anti-town than pro-scum imo because I don't see scum motivation for saying "this suspected person is my top town-read but you can go fuck yourself if you ask why". It doesn't give a good defense of Stutters. (scum/ scum) It's a pitiful attempt at white-knighting if I've ever seen one. (scum/ town) There was no reason for him to even make that comment in the first place so the "he's making up an excuse" explanation doesn't mesh well with me. If these two are still the main suspects then I'm skeptical of the odds of lynching correctly today. | ||
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Calix
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Anyway, he says he's one of the more productive players - if that's productive then this game is a spam-fest. He also claims he's building a town circle which I have yet to see on both points. (his weird-ass town-read on Stutters doesn't count) I recall him saying he was going to investigate the first few posters or something - has he followed up on that? With regards to TPR-hunting, again, that's anti-town because scum would just post their TPR-reads into their private chat. It's also insanely retarded to do as town and if Lunatic thought that Stutters was blue then he should have just defended Stutters using his posts to avoid this. I have no idea what he was trying to achieve there but I guarantee that the execution was terrible. This read is shit because a lot of his actions require a crapload of WIFOM to decipher. His mindset doesn't make any bloody sense to me and I don't see a coherent explanation for his actions for town or scum, so I'd like to clear that up. This reasoning is similar with Daneler to an extent as I am finding him difficult to place. However he is less disruptive to the chat compared to Lunatic. | ||
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Calix
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Scott, I'm pretty sure I explained my initial Jealous town-read as a mind-meld kind of thing. It was extremely weak and his floppy play is making me move him down to null. I've seen people use 'try-hard' as a scum tell and I don't follow - how is this scum-indicative and not personality-indicative? I agree with Xatalos to an extent about Daneler. His entrance was terrible and his cases have a) followed other people's suspicions and b) have been lacking and pointing out things that aren't scum-indicative at all. He also comes across as timid but that could just be because he's new so I'll just note that down for future reference. I like that Xatalos was questioning Skynx about his Daneler read instead of just accepting it because Skynx agrees with him on a suspect or something. #340 just shows that Lunatic fares poorly under pressure. He's all about that hyperbole. (he was LITERALLY PRESSURED into revealing his TPR-read after he was...called scum guise) As it stands, this dude is just going to be a detriment to town regardless of alignment given how many of his posts are fucking retarded for anyone to make. (horrible reactions to pressure + random town-read that he won't explain before calling a town-read a TPR for example) He's going to create too much WIFOM about "dumb town or dumb scum" to be worth the risk. I don't usually like policy-lynches but with this level of activity, keeping around someone who is being disruptive is a poor move. I am not going to cry over a Daneler/ Stutters lynch either. Daneler is the ultimate null read for me so seeing him flip would be useful and Stutters just ignored my accusation against him (which confirms the accusations via silence) and I didn't see anything in my catch-up that made me reconsider my read of | ||
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Calix
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Consider my vote on Lunatic. Not gonna lie, it's hard to form any decent read on anyone this round. Will try to fit in some time to filter-dive but can't guarantee anything. | ||
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On September 25 2016 23:50 Jealous wrote: TL;DR: I got frustrated by people asking me reasonable questions in response to my dodgy nature and unsupported read, so I did something anti-town and now I'm going to blame the community for it. Do you actually scum-read him at all? I don't recall you saying anything aside from 'more anti-town than XYZ' | ||
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Calix
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On September 26 2016 00:21 Jealous wrote: At this point he is the scummiest player so far. Hmm. Who else would fall into your definition of scummy? | ||
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Calix
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-_- It would be really nice if you went into more detail instead of forcing me to reach out to you for something as basic as a scum-read/ lean/ whatever you're going to call it. You seem more curt than usual - is there a reason for this? | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
Got around to reading Stutters' ISO and I don't understand #236 whatsoever. Stutters says that he would lynch SEQ for this one line alone and later asks why people haven't picked up on it...but I don't get what he means or why it's enough of a scum tell that no follow-up is needed. Stutters also did not vote in light of this supposed 'scum tell' and while he's been asking for SEQ opinions, he hasn't explained himself on this point. For context, it's SEQ commenting on Xatalos saying: 'Interesting idea. What does this achieve? Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^' Don't get me wrong, that's not a great line because it's commenting on a mechanic that's not in the game (self-votes) in some detail. My interpretation is that Stutters is saying that SEQ hadn't read the setup but I don't see how that's AI, let alone lynch-worthy, and if that's not what Stutters meant then I'm lost. I don't understand nor do I relate to what Stutters has done this game so far tbh. | ||
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Calix
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The only thing that pinged me was his characterisation of the Jealous town-reads as due to him 'writing the most words' which I feel was a gross simplification of the town-reads that he was getting at the time. And this is probably a semantics point more than anything but hardly anything else in his ISO gives me good/ bad vibes so whatever. There is #255 though because I liked the 'I'll wait for Lunatic to give his reasons before I give mine' line although I don't know for sure why he said it so I might be projecting my reasoning onto him (like I can see myself saying a similar thing for XYZ reasons) so yeah, it just read like a townie concern to have to me, idk. So overall he's null but if you put a gun to my head then I'd go with town. | ||
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Calix
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I'm going to go talk to a wall, it'll achieve just as much as this. | ||
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Calix
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Figures that everyone turns up the moment I leave, lmao. Rels, why do you town-read DYH, Scott, Stutters? I don't remember anything the first two have done. I had to check the first page before realising that DYH/ Superbia were even in the game. | ||
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Calix
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My lynch list is as follows: Would not lynch: SEQ/ Xatalos/ ptmc/ Rels (they are townie/ decently active/ contributing. Lynching actives on D1, especially now, is suboptimal) Superbia (replacement or modkill incoming) Might lynch: Skynx/ DYH/ Scott - For doing nothing Jealous - He's such a wet blanket that you could fill a water tank If your name isn't on this list then you're here as well Would lynch: Lunatic/ Daneler/ Stutters | ||
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Calix
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Looks like Superbia is here. Still wouldn't lynch though so my post remains unchanged. | ||
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Calix
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Also I agree on DYH not doing stuff. I read his filter and there is like literally nothing in there but some town-reads and lts of questions withoyt him saying anything himself. I'll try to find post numbers now but I feel like he could be scum who is coasting | ||
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Calix
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On September 26 2016 03:53 Superbia wrote: Because last time I said I would try to lurk through d1 I was literally unable to. You never know. Well keep us updated with your thoughts and stuff. Have you said about the Lunatic lynch yet? | ||
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Calix
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What makes me suspicious is 342 because he was like "hai Sutters I'll talk about your scum-read SEQ if you talk about ptmc" and that's weird because he isn't scum-reading ptmc (so not sure why he asked) and he's not reallg using his initiative - if you have thoughts then why not just post them instead of doing some weird 1-1 trade thing? Ithink this shows some lacking of initiative here. 349 is where his SEQ read is and he's saying 'he doesn't bother me at all' but i don't know wherever that's a town or scum read (this is a theme) and this is the most wordy post he's made the entire game and that's his bigger contribution that he bargained for and its not even that good. If it's a null read then why waste time when you could talk about scum-reads (which he has not done at all lol) and if it's a town read then it's not clear at all. His priorities don't make any sense is what I am saying here. And I don't think his asking questions thing is a town tell either because he doesn't ever give his own thoughts and the leading questions seem like he's trying to get people to thinkc ertain things, you know what I mean? also he doesn't give his own thoughts like with 344/ 347 and he's like "Lunatic is anti-town" but that's not saying wherever lunatic is town or scum it's just a thing he said about his behaviour. So yeah this is why I think he's possible scum who is avoiding the spotlight and he is trying not to take sides in the main discussions (don't know his opinions on half the stuff going on you know?) and his questions are leading ones. He's yet to make any kind of scum-read because he was doing that weird trade-off thing over scum-hunting. | ||
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Calix
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On September 26 2016 04:02 Stutters695 wrote: It's not a great line because SEQ clearly hadn't been following the thread or would have caught that Xata and I were clearly joking. It came as just looking to post for the sake of being active. Okay this makes a bit more sense although I do't think it's that relevant either and I remember that this scum player made that comment about me in the last game so I am not convinced here because I was town in that game (so not something that only scum would do) | ||
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scott is forgettable as hell so can do that too but lynatic is better because of WIFOM and stuff | ||
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On September 26 2016 04:24 DoYouHas wrote: @Calix - My read on SEQ in the post you looked at is in no way null. I described him as jumping in with both feet and actively scumhunting. Those are town attributes. you didn't make it explict which is why I was confused and I don't think they're town tells because scum can scum-hunt also or else they'd stick out and be well obvious yeah? but i can kinda see why people would make that mistake | ||
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Calix
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(iy's in order right?) | ||
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Calix
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everytime danny says xe it makes me think of tumblah | ||
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Calix
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imma read scott now brb | ||
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Calix
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Don't really get his stutters read either but will look at that in more detal later. | ||
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also are you implying that all the non-voters are sucm because that's what it sounded like to me lol | ||
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On September 26 2016 06:18 Jealous wrote: I've posted what I deem a sufficient amount about Lunaticman prior to the vote; I actually voted for him in this thread much earlier than most of you, from what I can tell, but I forgot that I have to vote in the other thread. As far as my thoughts as I'm catching up, here's what I have (pretty loose, not on a PC until tomorrow and working until then): Scott - In my experience Scott is always a man of few words so I don't feel his brevity is AI. Superbia - welcome back, his type of spam might be what this game needed to be revitalized. I would like to see him speaking more specifically and referencing posts more clearly beyond just saying "I read his filter and I feel x." He also has the convenience of arriving into the thread when everything is more or less set in stone. But, because I myself am busy, I can relate. Calix - am slightly surprised by her willingness to judge me for not being very confident or conclusive on people in D1 as I feel she knows me well enough to know that this isn't out of the norm. D2 is when I always do a lot of work, so I don't mind that you guys (particularly Rels) are giving me some crap over being soft-spoken because that will all change when I have concrete things to work off of and tie to posts. Daneler - might be riding on the good feels he got from my posts before I became inactive, but he should have picked up on the general turn of town's opinion on me and the fact that it is reasonable I'm a vacuum. I agree with Rels that I wasn't a big fan of his list post. Rels - staying on the ball and being assertive with his position, which I like. His going after me is forgivable because as I said it is justifiable and will not be the case come D2. Xan - it's awkward for me to look back on my phone to make sure that it was him trying to create a second train, but if it was indeed him I'd have to say it seems like a stupid thing to attempt so openly and at this juncture. Stupidity isn't necessarily AI but in theory, taking votes off Lunaticman and creating the potential for shennanies (which are popular on TL and thus unfortunately not always AI)... Could be a dumb scum move. If it was not Xan who did this, attribute the same reasoning to whoever else it was that initiated this thought, and apologies to Xan. Stutter - still haven't seen anything from him that would make me change my mind about him being my #2 lynch pick. Nothing that I recall off the top of my head sticks out, but I'm not fully caught up so maybe I'll add some more as I walk to the store before EoD. Don't think reading into Superbia's timing is going to get anyone anywhere. Details that could be explained very easily by RL are not something that should be considered imo. Yeah, I am aware of your last game. Somehow you have become even worse since then and that's saying something considering that catch-up post you made last round. Your promise of getting less-shitty has been noted though. Noticing that a lot of your reads so far are focused on yourself. I don't think you've been the centre of discussion so this strikes me as oddly self-centred. Not sure who you're referring to with a 'second train' thing. Xatalos said "oh I can get behind a second train but I'm sticking with Lunatic" iirc before dropping it and Superbia was more open about a Scott train and has recently voted I think? Otherwise I don't follow. Your Stutters read is something I agree on. | ||
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Calix
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On September 26 2016 06:43 Jealous wrote: As I said, I'm not taking Superbia's timing into account because we are both in the same boat in that regard. I really didn't notice too much going on as I skimmed besides what I had already mentioned and covered so ad my name was mentioned quite often I felt it appropriate to address that, because if I don't, who will? Only person who seems to still have a favorable opinion of me is Daneler and even I don't agree with him lol. I guess I could have brought the list up in another window on my phone and flip back and forth in order to give more reasons but I was moving fast in the interest of EoD time and because I feel that the differences between what I have said and he has said would at least cover some of that. Yes, that is what I was referring to. I'm not sure I like such a blatantly artificial plan. Seems like it'd plant more seeds of confusion than any valuable information, especially since it was done so openly. I still think my self-centred point stands as your answer only confirmed what I was saying. What do you mean exactly with your last line of the 2nd paragraph? What's artificial about considering other lynch options? I didn't notice anything unusual with that. (it makes for better VCA after all) | ||
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On September 26 2016 06:57 Jealous wrote: I feel like you might be tunneled on this self-centered sticking point but I don't feel it's quite fair. I might be digging myself an even deeper hole by pursuing this line of discussion but I think it must be addressed. I come back from a long period of inactivity to find that nearly every poster is saying that they are liking me less/scum leaning me. I get asked for my thoughts on the thread by Scott so I address all the points I found pertinent, which obviously included me since nearly everyone has mentioned my name in my absence. So, in order to respond to the people whose mentioning of me stuck out, I am forced to talk about myself and come to my own defense multiple times. It's simply logical, in my opinion. I feel like you only looked at the surface (amount of times I refer to myself) and not the underlying reasons. I'd rather not have something else added to the list of things people are scum leaning me for. Anyway, I think that about covers that issue. Last line of the second paragraph, I'll rephrase. If I had more time and it wasn't such a pain, I would have brought up the list in a quote or in another page on my phone browser, and addressed the reasons why I didn't like his list more directly. However, because time was short, I didn't. Running out of time now, third point will have to wait. You must have a weird definition of tunneling because I have only said that I think it's a valid point twice. It's not just the fact that you mentioned yourself a lot by itself. It's the fact that your post focused a lot more on yourself for almost all of your reads (or initial impressions or whatnot as they're similar to that last-game post) compared to anything else that struck me as funny, you know what I mean? But that isn't really a point that you can answer anymore than you already have so you'll be better off doing something else. | ||
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Lemme find some of the vote posts now. | ||
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On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote: Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him. On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum. ^^^^worst votes 2k16 DYH is textbook bussing. The weird-ass sympathy nails it for me. Scott's awkward read-hopping looks even worse given that he was low-key defending Lunatic (nobody's contesting his wagon post) before he voted him for some lukewarm reasoning. Stutters was a "voting so I don't forget" vote and ptmc voted near the very end so that looks like a "vote because it's mandatory" deal, Jealous voted because he agreed with my "Lunatic is more anti-town than the other wagons" argument. Xatalos/ SEQ voted early on so they are extremely unlikely to be scum for that. Could have easily tried to have made a push on one of the other wagons given that both have some thread presence. | ||
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Calix
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"But Calix, what if there was some WIFOM9000 bussing plan?" - No. Allow me to explain the logic: - Scum rarely die on Day 1. - Scum do not want to bus their partners on Day 1 because they lose numbers and give town a shitton of information and the only advantage they get is "muh town cred" which means jack shit because they still have to survive for an extra day and town cred doesn't save you in LYLO. - Scum with strong thread presence do not lose their partners on Day 1 because they can divert the lynch onto a townie. - If a scum player dies on Day 1, then the scum cannot have a strong thread presence because otherwise the lynch would have not hit scum. - Therefore the scum must be among the passive lurkers. Like this is fucking airtight logic. | ||
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But I kind of like it because he didn't just pile onto the Lunatic bandwagon to get cheap town points. | ||
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On September 26 2016 07:24 Jealous wrote: Nice finds. I am inclined to agree on at least DYH, whereas with Scott I'm not 100% sure but that last sentence is pretty damning. Why would it have been UNSAFE to vote Lunatic? It's not like TL threads close once 50% majority is reached or something. Would be worthwhile to check out the validity of his claim that there were a decent number of votes going elsewhere at the time. Can someone on PC do this for me please? ^^ I agree with most of your other VCA. For Stutters, it's worth mentioning (and please correct me if I'm wrong because I'm working off memory) that it was between him and Luna in terms of who was being pressured so the Luna vote would have been the most sensible from a defensive standpoint as well. A quick look at the voting thread tells me that Lunatic was the leading wagon for all of EOD (tells me that he became the leading wagon 6 hours ago and Scott voted 3 hours ago) Reminds me of those people who claim to scum-read someone but don't vote for some convoluted reason like "I won't vote on principle" or something. (poorly-explained but it's like a rationalisation for bad logic) Wait, wasn't that you who said "the lynch is between Stutters and Lunatic"? Checked his filter and Stutters didn't say much about Lunatic so you have attributed your point to the wrong person, lol. | ||
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On September 26 2016 07:37 Jealous wrote: If it was me then that explains why I'm remembering it, but I don't think I was alone in suspecting Stutters at the time, so the point still stands. If I said it was between the two of them and he voted for him, that's still a defensive vote even if he didn't mention Lunatic directly. "Rather you than me." This isn't applicable for reasons below but voting for survival is not alignment-indicative. Secondly, this explanation you proposed doesn't make sense because Stutters was one of the last voters on the wagon, long after Stutters was at risk of dying. | ||
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Best post in the game, hands down. | ||
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On September 26 2016 07:21 Calix wrote: In fact, scum dying Day 1 is extremely informative. It basically tells us that the mafia have to be a bunch of passive fucktards, 100% no quibbling. "But Calix, what if there was some WIFOM9000 bussing plan?" - No. Allow me to explain the logic: - Scum rarely die on Day 1. - Scum do not want to bus their partners on Day 1 because they lose numbers and give town a shitton of information and the only advantage they get is "muh town cred" which means jack shit because they still have to survive for an extra day and town cred doesn't save you in LYLO. - Scum with strong thread presence do not lose their partners on Day 1 because they can divert the lynch onto a townie. - If a scum player dies on Day 1, then the scum cannot have a strong thread presence because otherwise the lynch would have not hit scum. - Therefore the scum must be among the passive lurkers. Like this is fucking airtight logic. | ||
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Who cares about the Stutters town-read? I'm just ignoring whatever Lunatic said there. In fact, I don't think anything that Lunatic said holds much weight save for his Daneler scum-read and vote iirc. Everything else is WIFOM and anyone who thinks that deserves any credit is basically saying "I'm so bad at reading the players that I have to rely on shortcuts to do it" Re: ptmc's case on 685, I don't think Stutters' Lunatic vote tells us much. It's a safe vote for sure but he could have legitimately agreed that Lunatic was scummy and there's not a lot to divine either way from Stutters himself. He doesn't talk much about Lunatic in his filter so if Stutters is scum then it's the "ignoring partners" strategy which is plausible. Only part that I see to support the scum explanation over the town one is that both of them were around at similar times and Stutters didn't talk about him much. And on the dude ptmc himself, he goes up a notch for that monster of a post relating to Lunatic. (695) Noting this for posterity. Starting to have wandering eyes here, zzz. I actually like Daneler's case on 691. I don't just mean "I agree with it" (although I do) but it shows some decent analysis compared to his early game play and raises some interesting points with regards to Stutters/ SEQ. I notice that Stutters doesn't tend to respond head-on to the points against him. It's clear that he's acknowledged them but doesn't explain himself. Examples include him never responding to my initial post and I don't see him responding to Daneler either. And sure, it could be because he's a man of few words but again, it's becoming a pattern with him so it's making me suspicious. Oh I see he's promised to make a big post about this stuff so this might become invalid. Rels is making sensible points with his response to Skynx and his DYH case to note two examples. I like him for town. | ||
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On September 27 2016 06:06 Skynx wrote: I'll re-read Scott now if u guys want but 7-8 pages from here he looked ok to me. Do you have any new reads that you want to bring to the table? What's the point in spending your (limited) time on people that you think have town-tone? | ||
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On September 27 2016 06:11 Skynx wrote: people like ptmc, Xata, Stutters, Jealous are all kinda in the middle with some reasons available justifying both alignments. They need proper analysis as their tone, meta, mind meld or all that kind of easy read stuff doesn't apply to them cuz they are inconsistent. So you kinda solve the easy questions first then move on to hard ones. That's swell as a strategy and all, so let us know when you get started on the 'difficult' analysis. Easy stuff is scrub-tier. | ||
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(third quote is directed at Daneler btw) On September 25 2016 11:56 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote: Thanks for the read though not sure how you arrived on that conclusion on the obvious townie part of Stutters, would like some elaboration please. but the rest of the post feels like it is filled with filler. Don't get the point of it. On September 25 2016 12:03 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote: *shakes my head* are you really going to settle on a town read based on meta??? On September 25 2016 12:25 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote: Sweetheart, I understand your suspicion on Lunatic, but I am worried about your confirmation bias leading you astray here. On September 25 2016 12:30 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote: & what is wrong with jerking people's chain approach exactly??? On September 25 2016 12:41 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote: Confused here. How does one get pressured into a blue read? Your read is your read, f*ck everyone else's opinion unless you are unsure. ^_^ (though I may have interpreted this part, oopsie if I did) also note: just because you do scummy things, you shouldn't change your actions/thoughts for other people, playing to someone else's ways is going to make you look a hellava scummier player by being unsure of your playstyle. | ||
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On September 27 2016 06:29 Skynx wrote: This is the first post him pushing Lunatic, like only few hours into game. He continues on like this until Lunatic does the blue read and all that jazz. He literally forces a mistake from mafia by sheer pressure. You're right he should be top tier actually but i dunno some stuff in my mind prevented that. I'm actually so fkin tired. While I agree that he is likely town, I think you're giving him too much credit here. He wasn't the only person pushing Lunatic in the manner that you described above - this leads me to conclude that SEQ was part of the collective pressure on Lunatic, not that SEQ was the sole player who was pressuring Lunatic prior to the TPR post. Tired, huh? All I have to do to relate is to read your posts But I'd like a more fleshed-out read if we're both still alive in like 20 fucking minutes, lol. | ||
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Not worth dwelling on right now - too much WIFOM involved with early night kills. I doubt it'll be productive until like, Day 4 and even that's a crapshoot. | ||
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Both the Skynx case (by Xatalos) and the Xatalos associations case (by Skynx) were absolute crap and were reliant on confirmation bias to support a pre-existing point. They just consisted of some throwaway comments which may possibly indicate scum/ scum interactions but maybe not and it was painful to read. Of those posts, TT made the best point when he said that Xatalos was being a hedge master with regards to Lunatic and talking too much and saying too little. Could just be how he talks (if anyone who's played with him before could chip in with their thoughts there then that would be good) but if I find the time then I'm going to see if his tone changed over the game. If it did then that's incriminating as hell. Skynx' reaction to Xatalos was the most riled up I've seen him and that was in response to him being attacked. It stands out to me because of the departure from his more resigned "lynch me" attitude near the D1 EOD to someone who is defending themselves more vigorously. @Skynx, what changed for you here? Right now I think DYH is the best lynch. He's still not scum-hunting and whatever he's preparing had better be good and a lot of his defense was WIFOM (I wouldn't do X as scum) and meta analysis (which I don't understand nor do I care to because meta is shit). It's funny because he's spent more time on talking about himself over anyone else and that self-involvement is not something that comes from town. Yeah, this can die. Stutters is also scummy. Something I've noticed with him is that he is always promising to do certain things ("I'll have this big post ready before EON/ EOD" being just one example) but has followed through on almost none of them and I have not seen a RL reason for him not doing that or any explanation at all. He just drops it. It's like he says that to get people off his back because nobody wants to waste someone's time when they've promised to do XYZ. @Scott, I've just started university and I just got a new job, so I only get an hour or so to myself on most days. Above two are the players I think are the most likely scum atm. I think Scott is also a possibility and TT's points make me want to re-visit my Xatalos read too. Also going to look at Jealous, Skynx too just because they have been less active so I need to remind myself of what they've done this game. | ||
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On September 28 2016 20:06 Tictock wrote: Eh I totally see where you guys are coming from on stutters, but I'm kinda with Rels. Stutters is pretty solidly town in my view. His opening play seems to be purposefully drawing attention to himself and that's not really something mafia does. Lunatic almost certainly spewed Stutters town. In my experience mafia has a hard time explaining townreads sometimes because they just know someone is town, and sometimes mafia defend town that look bad just so they look better when that person flips. This is almost certainly what happened this game, Lunatic saw Stutters under attack and decided to throw him an easy townread which came under fire and he couldn't back it up. Is stutters play very towny in it of itself? Not terribly, but I don't see what his game is if he is scum playing this way either. I'll make a note to give his filter a once over later though. It was at the beginning of the game though - saying that "scum don't do X at Y point" is player-reliant so I don't put a lot of stock into those kinds of arguments. The beginning of the game is also when the scum are vulnerable because they can really give themselves away with how they enter the thread and present themselves in the first few posts. What I'm saying here is that scum tend to make worse posts at the start because they don't know how the town will react to certain players, they don't know who the easy targets will be, they won't have a good idea of what strategy they are using yet. That means that you can catch them off-guard with one or two bad posts such as the ones Stutters made. This is a reliable habit that I've noticed with scum and that's what I think happened. And since it's at the start of the game, it's easier for said posts to be overlooked by something else cropping up. Lunatic didn't have a hard time explaining it - he just outright refused to say anything and then said "oh it's meta, tone and TPR" so I don't agree with that characterisation. How would scum have a harder time explaining town reads? They know who the town are so they can pick up on really subtle 'town tells' that town players make that the town are less likely to notice. It is possible that Lunatic was white-knighting, as you said, but that fumbling around with his read has a lot of holes no matter how you look at it. In short, it's a terrible attempt at white-knighting because it just drew more attention to both of them and Stutters didn't town-read Lunatic for it and it's a terrible defense of scum as he didn't explain it straight away. So that's why I am not focused on that read outside of "it's bad play". I agree that just focusing on Stutters' post is 10x more productive than some throwaway town-read so let me know what you make of Stutters once you get the time to read it. On September 28 2016 20:49 Skynx wrote: Man you might wanna read it again i think you got us mixed up. None of my reasons voting Xata was associative, in fact quite the opposite i sr him cuz of his bad reasons for associating me with Lunatic which are all long long shots of assumption the way he presented them. My case is based on the fact that town!Xata is incapable of reaching these conclusions from an unbiased pow. About me presenting myself as lynch target i agree that now it turned out to be a bad idea cuz i havent read the thread at all at that point and didnt knew Luna's lynch was like 95% certain. It was mainly cuz i've been so busy and town would be right to lynch me at that point. Nah my dude, I'm saying that your "Xatalos/ DYH are in cahoots" post was shite, not your "Xatalos' case on me is shite" post. It was part of my point about how a lot of people are making terrible associations - I think you guys are straining a muscle to make the few posts that Lunatic/ DYH/ etc made fit your conclusions instead of just analysing the actual person and forming a conclusion that way. Gotcha. | ||
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On September 28 2016 18:51 Rels wrote: I want to respond to your Stutters thing but I'm leaving for lunch. I'll do it after that because to me he's either confirmed town or scum depending on how this game develops, unless I misread something "He is either town or scum, I am not sure yet." - Welcome to the club. If this is because of the Lunatic thing, this is why reads based on external factors are inferior 95% of the time. Just use his posts. | ||
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Also hi. | ||
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I for one am psyched that people are wising up to scum!Stutters. | ||
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Who cares about finding the entire scum team on D2? lol. I have tried that before and it's a really bad idea. Just means the scum will be on their guard and making sure their interactions are like "kk this is how we're going to fuck with the associations lul" and means people get stuck in a tunnel of confirmation bias. I'd know all about that. tl;dr: No, I don't need to read it to know it's bad and you're bad for doing that. | ||
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With some obvious town-reads. I'm going to rot in a pit somewhere before I see a red name from this dude. | ||
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In all seriousness though, save it for later pls. Nobody wants your bitch-slapping right now when DYH is in the house. | ||
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It's hard to judge your reads for that reason because I can't really recall what my mindset was like at EOD on D1. | ||
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I'd rather leave the DYH-answering-questions thing until he's finished with his thoughts. Don't want to distract him too much from saying something first. | ||
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On September 29 2016 06:28 Tictock wrote: At this point if he has anything to say he'd better be typing it up to say it. We are 30 min till lynch. True. He's posted most of his reads anyway. | ||
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I find that extremely weird when you said he was a possible scum tbh. | ||
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I said Stutters because a couple of people like ptmc, myself, Daneler think he's scum so he's a more viable option than Skynx/ Xatalos/ Scott, not because he had a lot of votes. | ||
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On September 29 2016 06:58 Xatalos wrote: Hm ok.... Well, let's hope it was right.. What do you mean with this post exactly? | ||
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On September 29 2016 07:01 Xatalos wrote: That this lynch choice was right........ But doesn't seem like it was....... You were talking to DYH and it sounded like you were hoping that Scott was scum though? So I'm confused there. | ||
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I might do some now - I can't get a jot of sleep because some idiots are yodeling outside my bedroom door -.- | ||
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I read DYH's reasoning on Stutters and I'm not convinced since it's partly because of self-meta (NAI) and he changes his mind mid-way through the read. And his minor point about Jealous' comment isn't bad. I still should get around to rereading him sometime, definitely not now though. | ||
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On September 29 2016 21:08 Tictock wrote: Idk, it's probably best not to try to anticipate host action but given his last post was about 2 days ago... it's possible. It's probably noteworthy that Stutters didn't seem very interested in lynching DYH, seems he was scumreading Scott and Dane more. What conclusions are you drawing from that exactly? I'm not so sure on Stutters myself anymore. | ||
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Here's what tipped me off: + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2016 08:31 Jealous wrote: It seems like people have mostly vocally agreed on DYH with a few exceptions, but I don't see the votes on him. I'll construct my case on him then, just so that it's out there. I was going to revisit Stutters but I see DYH as priority right now. Working. On September 28 2016 09:09 Jealous wrote: + Show Spoiler + On September 24 2016 11:26 DoYouHas wrote: I think I like you as well Stutters. Good on ya. - I'll try to get into something beyond these gut reads tomorrow, hopefully when a few more people have posted. As is I'm pretty happy with tonight. 3/5 for my town pile and 2 I need to think about and watch. Gnight. Promises more substance tomorrow, let's see if he delivers. + Show Spoiler + On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ. He's been gone for almost 24 hours and comes back with this. For reference, Stutters was making a case on SEQ and told people to go look at SEQ filter. DYH is basically saying "okay, I'll do what you suggest to check out your scumread and work with you, but only if you give me your thoughts on ptmc, about whom I haven't said a word yet." I don't know if this is very townie behavior. Why wouldn't he just give his thoughts on SEQ and then ask about ptmc? + Show Spoiler [Sidenote] + Interesting post from Xata on this, prior to DoYouHas' return: On September 25 2016 06:50 Xatalos wrote: DoYouHas did make quite a bit of posts earlier btw. 6 posts, only 4 of which were during the game, and none of which had substance besides 3 gut reads. Is this really worth commenting on? Is this really "quite a bit?" Hmm. + Show Spoiler + On September 25 2016 10:16 DoYouHas wrote: It is absolutely anti-town. Do you think it is bad play or scum? On September 25 2016 10:53 DoYouHas wrote: So is it bad enough that you would want to lynch him or do you currently have a stronger scum read on someone else currently? On September 25 2016 11:09 DoYouHas wrote: @Jealous, are you in and out? Why is it taking you this long to respond to me? As Tictock pointed out, DYH seems to be pressuring me more than Lunatic despite (at least superficially) agreeing with me that Lunatic is playing anti-town. In fact, DYH hadn't said a word about Lunatic at all up until this point. Surely he saw the post? Why ignore Lunatic? Why jump on me? + Show Spoiler + On September 26 2016 03:45 DoYouHas wrote: You have Giacomo! (so long as you are leading against DH, Luna, or Jealous) So he throws Luna into the mix now that Luna has drawn attention but dilutes it by throwing two other names in there, neither of which he had mentioned until now. The only person he had really said anything of substance about until here is SEQ, besides his gutreads at the start of the game. (Also, he didn't really contribute anything in over 27 hours, despite promising to do so). This is his first time calling any of the three scum, and does it in a way that provides no substance whatsoever. + Show Spoiler + On September 26 2016 03:58 DoYouHas wrote: Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up. DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared. Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that. Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum. Here he elaborates, imaginably because he is trying to get Superbia to sheep him. Doesn't like DH for scumreading Luna, despite also saying Luna is "possible scum," and then puts me in the same group again. Note, I was against Luna at the time as well. How would that team of 3 ever make sense? Both I and DH go for a bus halfway through D1 when there were only a handful of pages and posts, after telling Lunatic to post like an idiot? That's a stretch, and DYH makes no sense here otherwise. + Show Spoiler + On September 26 2016 04:04 DoYouHas wrote: I don't think Luna and Dane are likely to be scum together, but taking there play individually I think either of them could be scum here. Is that what you meant? I guess this explains the previous post somewhat, but he only makes the distinction when asked by Superbia? You would think that would be something you'd want to put in your post that is supposed to be informative to Superbia, and not only when probed further. In short, he threw out three scum reads he had never mentioned until then, then elaborated on it, but didn't mention he didn't think they were on a team together. That's careless at best; misleading seems more likely. This post still sucks. + Show Spoiler + On September 26 2016 04:27 DoYouHas wrote: Or maybe, just maybe, both of your assumptions are wrong here. 1. I wasn't providing a null read on SEQ 2. I was actually trying to have a conversation with someone I townread. Stutters being the "someone I townread," which he did with "gut" in the first few hours of the game, which he never mentioned again. Also note that he still hasn't provided anything as he had promised at the start. + Show Spoiler + On September 26 2016 10:32 DoYouHas wrote: Ok, here is where I'm at for the night Mafia Jealous Town Rels SEQ Calix Stutters Skynx Probably Town Xata Looking better post-flip Dane Unsure Scott Superbia ptmc Dane(again) I ask why I am his scumread, only scumread. + Show Spoiler + On September 26 2016 11:56 DoYouHas wrote: GRAH, I CAN'T MAKE IT STICK For everything I don't like about you and think makes you scum: Your early fluff, non-committal, over-defensiveness, appeals to your noobieness, misrepresenting me, buddying Calix, looking at the proposal of multiple wagons from a mafia perspective instead of a town one (looking at it as a trap to be avoided instead of as an opportunity for better VCA) I can't seem to find the mafia actions in your play around the lynch. If I'm having trouble convincing myself of probably the most important part when I undoubtedly have my confirmation bias glasses on it probably isn't there. I was seeing your tonal shifts from casually attacking Luna to guarded consideration then back to casual attacking as very odd. But the thing I can't figure out if you are scum is why you would leave your vote on Luna and not Stutters before the wagon on Luna got rolling. This post: It doesn't fit or is significantly more clever than I am. Damn, damn, damn. I hate having no scum reads. I really do need to get to bed though. See you all with the daypost. This takes him a whole hour and he calls me all sorts of terrible but still can't make a case. This means he is town/null-reading everyone in the game, was pushing a lynch/scumread since his first few posts D1 that he himself can't support and had given no concrete evidence on at all until he was forced to draw some out. That is simply foolish, and scummy in my book. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/513316-newbie-student-mafia-xxiii?page=40#791 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/513316-newbie-student-mafia-xxiii?page=40#792 These are his last two posts, nearly a day ago. And frankly, I don't think they are very good. Although I think Rels post did have some stuff I didn't agree with, and DYH pointed them out, the rest of it was pretty weak. He doesn't make much sense in some parts nor does he substantiate much of his argument about why DH or I were scummy, which he references a few times. His earlier posts on the subject were, as you can see above, were weak as well, so it's not like he could reference some strong analysis from before. Overall, I think DYH is scum. I don't think neither Xata nor skynx are worth a vote right now, but I will definitely look into them more in detail. There are still some fishy things I don't like about Xata and Skynx doesn't seem to be paying much attention to the game in certain posts of his, which I don't like but can't necessarily say is scummy until I see them side-by-side in analysis. So yea, I voted DYH. He acknowledges that DYH is someone that pretty much everyone agrees is scummy, yet he thinks that it's a good use of his time to make a massive case against him and hop on the train because 'he doesn't have that many votes on him'. Keep in mind that DYH is the leading train at this point with the Xatalos/ Skynx thing being supported by almost nobody save for each other and Stutters having a few supporters. That is it. The Stutters train was not even a thing for most of the day. He references a fair number of arguments used by other players (TT, myself, etc) and the points he added aren't anything massively incriminating in retrospect. My point? It makes me wonder why Jealous felt the need to devote a large amount of his time to a case on someone that he was already scum-reading given that he largely rehashes the arguments of other players and this is all on a player that he's already given opinions on. That's not a case of bad priorities, that's posting for the hell of it. If you want an example of not-scummy points he raised, look no further than him criticising DYH for going "Lunatic, Jealous, DanelerH are my scum-reads" because "that team makes no sense". This is all fine and dandy...if we were talking about a post made on Day 4. That's not the case though; he's talking about reads made early on Day 1. Most players do not consider associative tells that early on in the game because the goal is to lynch a scum. Until then, you have no concrete information to base associative reads from so criticising DYH for that is nit-picky and doesn't add anything to the argument. This is also one of the worst EOD posts: [B]On September 29 2016 06:40 Jealous wrote: I'm starting to WIFOM over the fact that DYH showed up just before EoD when the train is on him. Like, would a scum normally do this? I don't think I would lol. The reason it's WIFOM is because maybe he is trying to make people doubt his scumminess last second and shenanie? I'm locked in but I'll feel a little bad about it if he flips town ): As you can see, he is showing some doubt over DYH flipping scum. That's all fine, nothing to see there, but his reasoning is absolutely insane. tl;dr: - DYH showed up when he got voted - Scum wouldn't bother to turn up because scum!Jealous would not bother As Rels said earlier, this is a piss-poor reason to start doubting a scum-read when a) scum 100% would want to defend themselves so that they...don't get lynched and b) time-zones/ RL commitments can also influence if someone arrives at EOD. That's not a strong enough explanation to make anyone doubt themselves about a read, especially after the case that Jealous made where he concluded 'scum'. The mere act of posting at EOD when you are being voted has jack shit to do with your alignment. Furthermore, he wasn't interested in switching wagons from DYH so I see no logical or emotional motivation for this sudden doubt. Thus I'm concluding that he's full of shit. That post had him stretching so hard for an excuse to distance from the ML that he sprained a muscle. | ||
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He's been bugging me for a while and I think I've finally figured out why | ||
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Thinking TvS atm. Too bad Stutters is AWOL, it's going to be a pain in the arse to suss that one out. | ||
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TT was making some odd comments. I still don't relate to asking about how DYH was posting his reads - it's not something I would consider when seeing some reads. I can't see scum motivation for them though so going to keep a mental note of them for now. And I did like his initial response to DYH's post on 867, meta reference aside. Didn't even notice that Daneler was online at EOD, all he did was pop in to vote. I don't think he's done much recently and he's becoming hazy in my mind so I'd like to hear more from him. | ||
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Pity that he's dropped off after such a good start but he still looks clear to me. | ||
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On September 29 2016 23:41 Jealous wrote: I felt guilty because DYH was coming off as town in those last posts, truly trying to help town and all that... it was at the point when it was obvious no one would take their votes off him and everything he had to say was futile, he kept posting for town... hence the guilt ;-; It's not futile if people read his thoughts after he dies. I recall you made that teasing comment about his uninformed posting (as in, hadn't read the thread properly) so I don't see what changed for you in his last few posts. You are still acting like posting is a town tell. It isn't. Have you ever played with HolyFlare? lol I was skeptical about him not trying to vote for Stutters but in retrospect, that was a pretty stupid thing for me to worry about given the site so. | ||
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On September 30 2016 02:27 Stutters695 wrote: Sorry guys. I got really busy. Just a warning this time. Won't be modkilled. Jesus tit-sucking Christ, that's a shameless mod-dodge if I ever saw one. Doesn't even comment on the fucking game. At this point, he needs to be policy-lynched now rather than later to clear shit up. He's a black hole that makes it difficult to judge other players and the discussion around him is getting stale because he does nothing. He's already survived two days longer than he should have done and that was back when he was actually posting. | ||
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On September 30 2016 03:02 Jealous wrote: I'm locked in because of evidence, guilty because feels. Evidence > feels. Also, @Calix, the only reason I made the long post on DYH is because even though he was being discussed, he only had 2 or 3 votes including myself, 1 on Xata/skynx, and like 6 people yet to vote. I figured people needed more convincing so I did an analysis post by post. Naturally, I came up with some of the same things others had up until that point and reiterated some of my own previous analysis. Don't really see how you're trying to fault me on this one, feels like you're trying to make something out of nothing for the sake of never being without a scumlean. I'd find your argument more convincing if I ignored the multitude of posts that I've made against Stutters. I'm not faulting you for the act of making a case against your scum-read. I'm faulting you because of the context of making that scum-read and how you did it. Right now, my scum-reads are one of you/ Stutters, Xatalos and maybe Scott if I'm wrong on those three. | ||
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Calix
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On September 30 2016 14:27 scott31337 wrote: So reading your filter over Stutters, and I saw - So, I did some research - Unless there's some newer games this does not have, I only see one game (and Assassination?) where you were town and Xatalos is mafia. [W] Newbie Mini Mafia XXVI http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363923&user=Stutters695&view=all ![[image loading]](https://i.sli.mg/KdqyBS.jpg) lol Scott, this is pitiful. You went through the database based on this one comment which looks like a throwaway remark on a player's scum game if anything. What I don't get is why you think ANYONE would lie about their history with XYZ when they can be easily caught out over something so simple. I don't see scum motivation for Stutters to lie about the number of games he's seen scum!Xatalos in. | ||
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On October 01 2016 03:03 Xatalos wrote: Gotta admit that his play has been subpar at best... It's subpar as either alignment though, not merely subpar as town. It's a bloody good thing I went out for a walk in a park today. I have some lovely pictures of hedges which remind me of your posts. | ||
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On October 01 2016 02:29 Skynx wrote: I don't think this makes Jealous scum. If you're scum why just not vote DYH without giving any reason and live happily ever after To make himself look more productive, duh. My last point is really being overlooked here so I'll repeat myself here. His reasoning for doubting DYH's wagon is contrived no matter how you look at it. How would someone posting at EOD be town-indicative and overwhelm the other reasoning that he laid out just a few hours' earlier? How does anyone scum-read DYH with a multitude of reasons and then doubt that based on him turning up? Try and think through that one and tell me how that makes sense, I'd like to see that work of fiction. It makes no sense from a town mindset but by all means counter me with some valid explanations or whatever. I'd prefer Jealous but he ignored this point so I'll take spokespeople if it means people actually acknowledge me here. I should have split up my post or something so people would notice this. | ||
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Calix
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On October 01 2016 02:55 Xatalos wrote: In any case, they should be both lynched over stutters every time. If stutters keeps getting votes, I'll probably need to share my other reason. But the first reason (Lunatic's scum->town-like reaction to stutters) is already pretty clear. What the fuck is the point of hiding your reasoning? It's a town-read, not nuclear codes. Your evasiveness is similar to Lunatic's evasion of his Stutters town-read and it's been noted. | ||
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On October 01 2016 03:17 DanelerH wrote: I don't like how Xatalos is unwilling to share the theory about Stutters. For Scott, the answers were straightforward and sounded like they came from Town. Is this a tone read or is it something specific that he said? From what I've seen of Scott, he is a concise person in general. | ||
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- You | ||
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![[image loading]](http://images.says.com/uploads/story_source/source_image/470552/e60a.gif) | ||
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I'm not sure why people are suddenly getting cold feet around Stutters when he hasn't done anything but inquire about Scott. | ||
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I can even save you some time and tell you to can it with the meta because I won't give a fuck. Take it while stock lasts! | ||
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I'm popping out in five. I'll look him over when I get back and I'll probably be around for EOD. | ||
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Skimmed the Scott case and I think Stutters is the better option, partly because I think he's scummier than Scott, partly because of policy and a little bit because I'd rather give Scott a better shot to defend himself if possible. I don't think his response is worth noting rn because he seems frustrated due to his RL commitments not game stuff. Stutters has had plenty of opportunities and he's ignored all of them. | ||
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Town needs to start fucking doing shit. Picked the wrong time to say that cos it's the weekend but half the players are just popping in with some shitty posts and AFKing again. | ||
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This isn't going anywhere as I don't know what to make of it right now but 100% worth remembering for later. | ||
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I thought the initial case was crap, his follow-up was decent and then he kind of dropped off after that. In fact, how much have you read up on anyway? | ||
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Your insistence on being the master of evasion with what you're getting at is so bad. | ||
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I don't see anything massively townie from Stutters' responses. As you said, the main thing is him actually turning up and posting before he dies (after his reliable inactivity) | ||
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Activity is not alignment-indicative. Why would you being dead mean you put less effort in? If I was in your shoes then I would imagine that I'd be putting in more effort because I wouldn't ever have to after today. | ||
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Excuse me for a moment, I need to lie down. | ||
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Xatalos' post boils down to tone, attitude and associations which aren't terrible reasons actually, but the first half of that post didn't need to be hidden. That TPR part is literally Lunatic 2.0. At least this time, I can see why someone would conclude that he's a TPR from his posts although I think that's just Stutters being cocky. I think Rels came to a similar conclusion re: Stutters being a TPR. | ||
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I don't see Scott ever getting lynched now given the influx of votes on Stutters so I'll review it later when I feel up to the task. | ||
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Also I have no idea how you keep overlooking my Stutters read. | ||
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On October 02 2016 06:50 Jealous wrote: Both are reliant on single posts here and there with a lot of what feels like meta/tone read in between. In Scott's case it's the questionable posts relevant to DYH, in Stutters' it's the fact that he was hard town read by a noob scum who is prone to make dumb errors. I find it weird that TT made the case then backed off, too. @Calix: I'm well aware of your Stutters case and I have had him in my scum list for about as long as you have. That doesn't mean Scott isn't the better vote today. In part I think it will be more illuminating on associations, which can't be said for Stutters. Stutters has been discussed by many players so I disagree on your last point. That's a gross simplification of the cases against Stutters. Do you still scum-read Stutters or has your read changed? Who are your current scum-reads anyway? Is there a better case that you want us to focus on? I'm not sure where you stand given recent events. | ||
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From your filter, you only seemed to start scum-reading him at EOD when he turned up. Before that you were saying "He's done XYZ but I think he has a good chance of being town/ my gut tells me he is town" so you'll need to walk me through that one. | ||
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I'm dying. | ||
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If that kill had gone through then we would still have a shot but since it didn't, we had no chance. Jealous forgetting to include TT in his reads plus his random town-read on TT D4 made me think he was the Doctor. | ||
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I'll take tips from anyone | ||
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I'm trying to work on my emotional control in general (I don't think I'm doing a great job so far, lol) so I'm not sure how valid a metric that is to use when judging my posts. I'll keep that point in mind. Thank you | ||
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Calix
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On October 04 2016 05:33 NocturneMage wrote: jesus I couldn't even tell what was going on myself when calix wanted to concede and xata kept playing on, but I think scum should have been prepared for tictock's reaction test or whatever play he was doing to go either way. I can't argue with the concede - it would have taken two nights for us to knock the prot off before the cop and we were all off on who was prot. almost certain she'd have been redchecked before then. at one point with the rels kp I thought it was a veteran in the game and not a doc when in reality the damn doc forgot to submit a check. really unlucky there. the rels kill did allow the d3 mislynch to happen, so they made the most of that. calix it was a pleasure coaching you, like I said, a lot of good takeaways, I think everyone needs to work on bluesniping but honestly it's hard, even having had people mentor me on that, it's quite hard to do and people who are good can wifom it away. gg wp town. also if our qt is shared here (don't care really), xata/luna, don't take offence at my criticism of your posts - just that you lot are a team, and that calix had to work around your posts as a result. all part and parcel there. You were a great coach too. It was really nice being able to talk through ideas with another person and get a different perspective on things from someone who knows the site meta better. Where does one go to learn how to TPR-hunt properly? I am so clueless there. We even had TT on N2 but managed to talk ourselves out of that to hit Rels instead. | ||
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On October 04 2016 05:43 rsoultin wrote: Nowhere lol >< Some are really good at it? Chez and VA come to mind. But you'll have people who have been doing this for years and still can't find blues to save their lives Looks like I'll be falling into the latter category then. Man, I really thought I was onto something with Jealous xD I dislike associative reads in general. (although I use them occasionally because I am hypocritical) Generally I stick to 'normal' scum-hunting and just use what people have posted. Best way to get around scum bussing each other and the like imo. | ||
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On October 04 2016 05:53 rsoultin wrote: well i mean it's a bit early to call it quits! and yeah, some players are pretty good at disassociating, too. that's one of glowingbear's greatest strengths Half the mafia chat is me arguing with Xatalos over wherever the mafia team were fucked or not. Then we assumed that I had been red-checked due to TT tinfoiling me out of nowhere and we had already decided that one of us dying on D4 would mean that we would auto-lose, so that was that. | ||
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Not sure if it's a habit that I'll get into though - I am lazy when it comes to night phases because my reads are liable to flip-flopping after a night kill - but I'll try to keep it in mind and post a short LW or some updated thoughts or whatnot. I really hope the "she hasn't died by Day X, must be scum" argument doesn't get used against me again. I've had that thrown at me back on the old site if I lived past N1 and it was always annoying to deal with >_> | ||
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On October 04 2016 06:22 Tictock wrote: So only because you guys knew that Jealous was who get checked then? Given that few other people had made any kind of cop-like comments, it stood out enough on its own. But it's hard to tell when I had that information from D2. | ||
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On October 04 2016 07:05 Xatalos wrote: That post was pretty good, but then again, it was also not. Who knows? I certainly don't seem to know my own opinion Even in the scum QT, you managed to sound unsure of yourself :') | ||
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How do you guys properly assess your scum partners' posts? Any tips there? I feel like I was being too harsh on my scum buddies because I knew that they were scum and thus pushed them for things which otherwise would have gone unnoticed. Might have been why Lunatic died. (although I was being lenient on Xatalos - I would have been all over his hedge-posts as town, lol) | ||
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On October 04 2016 07:41 Skynx wrote: Disfo played better than all town combined lol +1 I am curious to see how this dude plays. Apparently there must be something more to that scrub if he gets called 'scumformation' | ||
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