[M][Cap] Tortoise Mafia

On April 15 2016 22:29 Shapelog wrote:
Just to prove to people That I am capable of lurking and not spamming.
/in

Don't really have time to play, just gotta win this bet I forced Sky into with me

On April 15 2016 22:41 unholyflare wrote:

makes zero difference as KP is factional

edit: except maybe in some one mafia lylo situation that will never happen maybe?

On April 17 2016 17:52 Fidei86 wrote:
/in

Looking forward to lynching HTS for realz.

On April 18 2016 02:25 Tumblewood wrote:
/in if it doesn't start for a few days

On April 18 2016 05:36 Damdred wrote:
It's ok I'm just lynching you anyway hts for mages

On April 19 2016 23:45 Fidei86 wrote:
Also, pre-game excuse, I now have a streak of not having been lynched in seven straight games as town. In fact, I've never been lynched in any game, but that doesn't count because I got carried by Rels and Alex/Mage in my two scum games.

On April 20 2016 23:57 Tumblewood wrote:
Shape is dangerously close to a "disappointing answers" scumread.
HtS is throwing me off because he's (she's?) scumreading me and LS and those are the only two people I'm thinking are town so far. The arguments feel a bit stretched but so is everything at this stage. Null for now but will become a scumread if this continues.

On April 21 2016 01:26 Tumblewood wrote:
.... It would also help to know whether you have a tendency to be overexplainy as town/scum.

On April 21 2016 01:48 Koshi wrote:
Pure on guts I am inclined to believe LS over HTS. Rereading HTS her posts I somehow can see it coming from scum because it is pretty emotionless and at points over explained.

[...]

I also have a feeling that she can't or won't commit on a read on FF and hides after a lot of words and "lazy meta can go both ways"

[...]

On April 21 2016 06:34 LightningStrike wrote:

This doesn't make Tumblewood scum it as if you forgot about Storm and you never read Newbie Student XX >.< I see him as a newer version of me: Hard to read for some people but given time he easier to read.

On April 21 2016 07:24 LightningStrike wrote:

She can put up effort as scum even when she was sick in Void mafia and in Newbie LX. I seen her do that kind of stuff as scum so that why I didn't comment on it. I also trying to trust my reads more than other people's regarding my scumreads so seeing people thinking the same way makes me more confident about my read. Like talk to Tina and Lex after this game or hell check post game of Newbie Student XX about me needing to trust my reads more.

On April 21 2016 07:37 Shapelog wrote:
gumshoe called me a cunt :/ A little one at that

Anyways, I've done my rounds in my other game. I skimmed tbh to this point right now (about to cook/eat dinner) and this is just some things I noted.

* LS has fucking used almost 25 posts. And roughly about the time I wrote this statement, it is 24 hours in. I wouldn't usually mind LS spam, but he is chewing through them like hot cakes. like for him to try to condense it down.

*GB has posted about SL. And that is still it. I want him to expand a little bit. He also seems to ignore Tumble/someone's post responding about if SL was serious or not. I feel like with the focus he is giving to SL, he should of responded to those (at least IMO)

YH and SL are silent

Other than that, nothing strikes me off the bat. After Dinner I look at things more closely.

[10? idk, I just say 10]

On April 21 2016 05:09 Tictock wrote:
Right now I wouldn't be opposed to lynching any of these people for varying reasons.

4. Shapelog
6. Fidei86
7. DoYouHas
8. Tumblewood
9. GlowingBear
11. LightningStrike

On April 21 2016 06:24 Damdred wrote:

[...]

As for ls I had a scum read in one of my posts about his opening and him rehashing earlier posts.

Now I think he's been ok, he's been helpful and has tried to eliminate people based off meta. I'm not 100% it makes him lock town but it's enough to give him time see how he handles lynch without pressure on him and what he does with his time.

On April 21 2016 07:06 Damdred wrote:


And this is different than every other game how?

Anyway I'm going to hedge on hts now until tommorow.

It is bothering me sl is getting so little attention especially with his lack of try hard as s um lately.

On April 21 2016 06:04 Damdred wrote:
TT why do you ignore everything posted on hts which isn't bad even if it's in early stages, only look at tumble to scum read but ignore ff who you were unhappy with his answer to you but didn't put him in your lynch list when he semi dodged you?

On April 21 2016 07:37 Half the Sky wrote:
11/40

[...]

There's effort and quality of effort. I'll bring up LX since you are, and you should remember it well as I got you mislynched. That game, I had an agenda, I was squarely on you and Binks, the mislynches we needed to win the game. I ignored my scumbuddies, especially my roleblocker. Here, I'm not leaving any stone unturned, and I believe this is why Koshi saw townieness in that post (presumably) at least bringing attention to those under the radar.

Here's another question for you LS - let's say I lose the plot tonight and get modkilled. I will flip town.
Whom would you vote for then? I asked you about your only other scumread Tictock, and now you are townreading him (190).

So I flip town, where do you go from here?

(Damdred, same question for you since I'm your most likely vote, please.)

On April 21 2016 22:42 Fidei86 wrote:
[10/40]

@HTS I was a bit concerned to see you town read me for standard town meta. As far as I can see, my usual town meta is big long list post on D1 followed up with lots of messages IN ALL CAPS. In our last game where I was scum you were like "oh it's pretty suspicious that he isn't talking very much" - and in this game I've been pretty quiet.

If there's one person in the game I'd trust to soul read me, it's you. But I'm suspicious that you just basically echoed Koshi's read on me without even putting any real gloss on it.

On April 21 2016 22:44 LightningStrike wrote:
Rolf she just claimed scum gfuys. There is always one scum within me and HTS. HTS I challenge you to a 1v1 Death Match winner takes all this phase.

On April 21 2016 23:01 Fidei86 wrote:
[13/40]

Does anyone else get the sense that TT really doesn't believe his push on Tumble? I mean, it's not like Tumble has said anything particularly egregious. The whole thing made me feel like TT wanted to find a target and so just pulled things out of every post Tumble made and span them negatively.

On April 22 2016 01:06 GlowingBear wrote:
How much time do we have until deadline?

On April 21 2016 01:36 Tumblewood wrote:

I think it's townie because that's the kind of post scum just ignores. After playing Storm and XX with him, I don't really scumread him for having bad reasons for his reads, because that seems to be NAI for him.

On April 22 2016 00:36 Koshi wrote:

The ceveat on Damdred is reasonable but it could also be that Damdred changed his view on HtS around the same time as I did.

But the part he said about Shape has nothing to do with what you said he did:

Where did you see DYH make an argument on Shape that had anything to do with alignment related posts?

in my eyes mafia DYH looked for something to contribute and found himself writing down something completely NAI against Shape who just makes odd posts.


Anyway, point out to me where DYH made the argument that Shape is not making enough alignment related posts. He said nothing about that.

On April 21 2016 13:20 DoYouHas wrote:

[...]

Shape is the person I'm most suspicious of, doesn't seem to be doing much and his posts are overly self-conscious, especially for someone that hasn't been seriously pressured yet.

I'm a little worried about Damdred. He was very quick to help Koshi against HtS and seemed like he dropped the pressure as soon as Koshi(who I'm leaning town on) wasn't leading the charge anymore.

On April 21 2016 13:27 DoYouHas wrote:
Actually, I want to revise what I said about Shape. It isn't so much that he is self-conscious. It is more that he is just talking about himself a lot, even after the beginning posts.

Filtering LS to see if I want to sheep HtS.

On April 22 2016 07:03 Koshi wrote:

why are you ignoring FF wanting to lynch you?
why are you ignoring FF all together?
xcept that horrible post in which you wrote 5 lines about him being 100% null.

On April 21 2016 22:56 Half the Sky wrote:
15/40

[...]

sicklucker, I went through your post and I have a few questions

(1) Why is Tictock strong?
(2) LS has faked his meta as mafia (which you allude to as cute) in Cell Mafia. Give me something more concrete as to why he's town
(3) Shapelog hasn't made concrete reads - that should tell you something. His filter isn't very long...
(4) Expand on GB's scum meta of pushing you - I've played with you both quite a bit and I'm completely unaware of it.

On April 22 2016 07:14 Fecalfeast wrote:
I'd really prefer to play later in the game where it's easier to make reads. I've posted reads when I had them.

On April 22 2016 07:17 sicklucker wrote:
Well thats a dumb reason sicklucker cares for no man. Maybe ladys. kill hts tho

On April 22 2016 07:22 sicklucker wrote:


like I said 8 minutes to lynch. I come back seeing you taking advantage and jumping on a dream scum lynch. Your the best lynch for me because of it. Sure if I had more then 7 minutes I would be more liberal about who I want to lynch here

On April 22 2016 08:10 Damdred wrote:
Also super funky that hts went from being 100% ok voting with ff on SL to 180 and vote him when it looks like the SL wagon loses most it's mojo with me going meh let's do something else.

On April 22 2016 07:11 Half the Sky wrote:
19/40 + 4/5



I completely missed him wanting to lynch me honestly in having the bazillion tabs open and reading all the filters.

I saw remants of his town game in 155/156 (this post similar to reads he made in NSM18, which I coached/186 and 245 (the comment on me is reflective of the town paranoia that I saw again in NSM 18).

This is extremely weak though and I know I could very well be wrong on him.

As for sicklucker I had 4 questions for him that remained outstanding and all pointed tot he problems I had with his list post.

On April 22 2016 07:17 Half the Sky wrote:
20/40



sicklucker, I had these questions of your list post.

And Fecalfeast, what prompted you to suggest voting me?

On April 22 2016 07:19 Half the Sky wrote:
22/40



Now THIS is a remnant of the Dark Tournament (mafia) Fecalfeast.

>_<

On April 22 2016 07:23 Half the Sky wrote:
24/40

I switched to FF. My head is spinning right now.

On April 21 2016 07:42 Koshi wrote:

The bolded comes over like a story you just made up to narrate my suspicion on you. I can understand why you meta wise still scumread HTS after she made that post, but I don't understand why you don't tell me that HTS could still be mafia after I made it clear I townread her for it.

And the fact you made the post about HTS being mafia was triggered by FF saying you discredit a lot of people and are not looking for mafia. And you scumreading HTS still doesn't explain why you used my name to legitimize your scumread on HTS. It also feel like you kinda spewed both Damdred and Koshi town by saying. "I had the same read as Koshi and Damdred, so fuck off" Which is not exactly what you said but it felt like that.


I am also somewhat puzzled by the fact you are not trying to save your posts. You are just blatantly spamming and I don't think that is very townie of you. You must understand that your posts become more valuable the closer to the deadline.



Anyway LS, I will probably follow Damdred his read on you. Please try to keep good track of your posts and don't let me baffle you too much.

Also, if you really believe HTS is mafia. Make sure you have good long and solid posts left near deadline on why she is mafia. Because we will need solid posts to lynch her.

---

I just read HTS her posts and she brings up a really good point that I also wanted to bring up but didn't. You close your eyes to the quality of that post.

On April 22 2016 04:43 Koshi wrote:
7. DoYouHas
9. GlowingBear
12. gumshoe

These 3 people look fine to lynch. I think I want to keep HTS around. But I think LS is at least twice more townie than HTS. But I don't know if I want to lynch in them atm.

On April 22 2016 05:59 Koshi wrote:
My read on LS is that he is probably town and that I wont lynch him.

On April 22 2016 06:55 DoYouHas wrote:
@koshi, Shape talking about himself a bunch while not being productive is indicative of a scum mindset. It implies that he is worried about how the thread is perceiving him, which is more likely to come from scum.

@the rest of you, Shape's read on me is seriously suspicious:
I had just put suspicion on him, my doing so became a point of contention between HtS and Koshi(his top town read). He glazes over my pressure. His entire list post is yelling, "your right DYH, I'm going to fix what you just attacked me for". Which would be all well and good, but then I wouldn't be null to him. I would be scum pushing a bad wagon or I would be misguided town that should be reasoned with.

On April 22 2016 07:28 DoYouHas wrote:
There is something wrong here, either in my reads or in this wagon. Top scum is voting with top town on someone I considered nullish.

On April 22 2016 07:09 sicklucker wrote:
Obv I cant read the pages I missed and defend myself at the same time. But id imagine hts is scum for that vote. Shes not that silly

On April 22 2016 07:17 sicklucker wrote:
Well thats a dumb reason sicklucker cares for no man. Maybe ladys. kill hts tho

On April 22 2016 07:22 sicklucker wrote:


like I said 8 minutes to lynch. I come back seeing you taking advantage and jumping on a dream scum lynch. Your the best lynch for me because of it. Sure if I had more then 7 minutes I would be more liberal about who I want to lynch here

On April 22 2016 06:44 gumshoe wrote:


My issue with tick is not that he accused me, it's that he first town read me and then scum read me for what was kind of the same content. Maybe he just didn't read throughly the first time but his pounce followed by double back reads to me as hunting for fault.

Also sick is now doc holiday. We may now lynch him if there is no better target, I am used to far more activity from him and he seems a bit more defensive/reserved then usual

On April 22 2016 06:44 gumshoe wrote:


My issue with tick is not that he accused me, it's that he first town read me and then scum read me for what was kind of the same content. Maybe he just didn't read throughly the first time but his pounce followed by double back reads to me as hunting for fault.

Also sick is now doc holiday. We may now lynch him if there is no better target, I am used to far more activity from him and he seems a bit more defensive/reserved then usual

On April 22 2016 07:27 gumshoe wrote:


Sl wagon join was an accident XD phone fingers are on auto pilot

Also I'm not bieng opportunistic, I'm bieng realistic. You have been far more active then me, regardless of alignment your playing a better game honestly ATM, and I can't use qoutes and shit on this thing. So yeah, I don't really feel like screaming tick rock is mafia impotently till flip. Better to lend my weight to whichever said I think has a higher chance of red. After, all there is more than one scum.

On April 22 2016 06:47 Tumblewood wrote:
aahhhhhh FF's filter is so bad

like what is this
this is so bad
and how did I not see it earlier

On April 22 2016 06:54 Tumblewood wrote:

Bad because a) there were AI things there and b) gumshoe treats everything as if it's AI

On April 22 2016 06:59 Tumblewood wrote:
Voting sicklucker? I don't know why everyone switched all of a sudden.
Going now but will be back just before deadline.

On April 22 2016 07:29 Tumblewood wrote:
Now I'm back and kinda caught up
1 minute goes by though and there are five more posts to read
probably going to make sense of this all at eod but glad to see you all sheeping me

On April 22 2016 07:40 Tumblewood wrote:
NO gdi why did you all sheep me. Told you not to but you just wouldn't listen.
Shape/hts/gum on the tail end of the wagon... Usually i'd say there's one scum on the wagon but there might be two. Running out of phone battery though but will definitely be here before EoN1 (probably tonight though)

On April 21 2016 14:25 Tumblewood wrote:
Phoneposting so no filter-diving for now but everyone is asking the inactives (that's me!) to at least tell where they stand so whatever.

town
Koshi for Koshi-ness
LS for defending me in a way that resonated with me (but oh no am I really the new LS)

town lean
Damdred for feeeels
TT for actually having a stance and trying, unlike the two scum games I played with him
I liked something from GB earlier and didn't dislike anything else does that count

scum lean
HtS feels unnatural to me but I don't know her meta... sources say it is just her meta but sources also scumread her so
SL for being useless but eh I'm not so into this one

null
Most people
I feel like I should have an opinion on FF but I don't

On April 22 2016 05:46 Koshi wrote:

Dnu. I think sl is actually so extremely horrible he is maybe not mafia :/

On April 22 2016 07:00 Koshi wrote:
sicklucker has been posting the last 13mins in the other game it seems.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/506344-a-normal-game-just-for-jat-3?page=91

That would be really a dick move to his scum partners.

On April 23 2016 06:54 Tumblewood wrote:
Don't care about conserving posts because I have so many right now. Even with one post per two minutes they wouldn't run out by eon
anyway
SL is probably the one looking weirdest to me atm
damdred looking even stronger
gumshoe is looking a little better
on mobile, will be useful tomorrow though

On April 23 2016 06:50 Shapelog wrote:
Alright, I am split right now between games, but I am here and will read stuff and publish some reads hopefully before the day ends.

Some of you are asking me about my vote. The reason I switch is because the "I would vote HTS" post didn't make sense to me. Then I cast my vote for FF. After I saw the VC (which came after the deadline) I made the commit about it being swing, but by that time, time was up for me. As my clock was ahead by a min (6:29).

that is basically it. If i had more Time i would argue and switch but I didn't

On April 23 2016 07:16 Fidei86 wrote:

Dani's all like "oh no, maybe I should have been on LS, like you would have expected from my filter, except I was on FF for literally no reason".

Dani / TT makes a fuck of a lot of sense to me right now. Damdred is town I think. SL too. And Tumble.

The last one could definitely be GB.

(For the post game swag)

On April 23 2016 06:50 Half the Sky wrote:
30/40

Been reading. I could definitely buy into the Tumbleweed lynch and even though I think associative reads aren't great, there's a decent chance of a TW/SL team here.

305



310



315



386



403



386 and 403 speak to exactly what Damdred just spoke of. I would lynch him for that.

Also here's something that might point to a TW/SL team.



I checked timestamps Tumble makes his first call at 2247. And SL reappears at 2303. So there is a potential agenda there as to why TW called out FF and why not SL when SL was by his own admission useless.

---

In separate news, I read into how LS continued to push my lynch to End of Day. I am starting to think he's probably town.

On April 23 2016 07:37 Fidei86 wrote:
Dani, what do you think about TT leaving SL off his list early on? I think you commented on it at the time?

On April 22 2016 01:00 Tictock wrote:
A few people asked why I left SL out of my "lynch list" earlier. It's weak but I felt like his first couple of posts were him trying to get the game going by throwing out an early vote. His last post reacting to GB's push felt kinda genuine as well.

His list post wasn't terrible and I kinda doubt he'd back off LS with the reasoning "hes so cute and trying hard" as scum.

So while SL is being very low key this game I'm not feeling like that is scum indicative.

On April 22 2016 05:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
LightningStrike (2) - Half the Sky, GlowingBear
DoYouHas (2) - Koshi, Tumblewood
Half the Sky (1) - LightningStrike
Tumblewood (1) - Tictock
Koshi (1) - sicklucker
Gumshoe (1) - Fidei86
Not voted (5) - Shapelog, DoYouHas, Damdred, gumshoe, Fecalfeast

On April 22 2016 06:44 Hapahauli wrote:
Sicklucker (3) - FecalFeast, Damdred, Shapelog
LightningStrike (2) - Half the Sky, GlowingBear
DoYouHas (2) - Koshi, Tumblewood
Half the Sky (1) - LightningStrike
Tumblewood (1) - Tictock
Koshi (1) - sicklucker
Gumshoe (1) - Fidei86
TicTock (1) - Gumshoe

Not Voting (1) - DoYouHas

On April 23 2016 08:05 Fidei86 wrote:
SL's filter goes very bizarrely with HTS being scum.

On April 23 2016 08:13 Shapelog wrote:
Hts, I don't understand the associative read in some places.

Primary The first 2 really aren't associative with SL at all really IMO. They are calling FF out on something that I am guessing TW missed while reading FF. (this is after the read list via time stamp)

I understand #315 and the last. The last two is kinda weird on themselves. (the change)

I can kinda understand Tumble also about the opinion on FF part. I feel he said that because people were calling him scum for things at the time (while SL wasn't heavily talked about) and he felt like he should have a opinion on him. have to relook though.

On April 23 2016 08:31 Koshi wrote:
dnu. sicklucker might vote for hts as scumbuddies there. He dares to buss. But I think HTS is pretty much in the clear for her play right before and after deadline.

I could still EASILY be mafia with sl. Dnu why I wouldn't.

On April 22 2016 07:10 Koshi wrote:
Are we lynching HTS?

I am up for it.

On April 23 2016 06:51 Koshi wrote:
If I reread I am pretty sure I can find 4 people I solely want to lynch within. Had a good feeling before the lynch. But meh.

On April 21 2016 02:11 GlowingBear wrote:
4
Ok since SL never answered me, I must say I don't like his posts

He has an opening calling Damdred "null" (the only thing I can understabd from bolding a name) because damdred was wasting posts. This is bad because:

1) It is impossible to have contentful posts in the beginning of the game
2) Calling someone null is saying something someone did is not alignment indicative, which means (I) he is wasting a post because he is saying nothing contributive, and (ii) he is trying to look contributive while saying nothing at all.

Wanting to lynch LS in the beginning of the game for wasting posts just reinforces this perspective

On April 22 2016 03:04 GlowingBear wrote:
I know the case on SL isn't the strongest. Although I think his attitude was suspicious, I only wanted to keep developing discussion. I also like to push a target in a way everything is explained in details, whatever slignment he is, because I think mafia has a hard time covering all aspects of their stories. Regardless if a post is NAI or AI, a hard push will almost always reveal inconsistencies if the player's intention is made up

On April 22 2016 05:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
LightningStrike (2) - Half the Sky, GlowingBear
DoYouHas (2) - Koshi, Tumblewood
Half the Sky (1) - LightningStrike
Tumblewood (1) - Tictock
Koshi (1) - sicklucker
Gumshoe (1) - Fidei86
Not voted (5) - Shapelog, DoYouHas, Damdred, gumshoe, Fecalfeast

On April 22 2016 06:44 Hapahauli wrote:
Sicklucker (3) - FecalFeast, Damdred, Shapelog
LightningStrike (2) - Half the Sky, GlowingBear
DoYouHas (2) - Koshi, Tumblewood
Half the Sky (1) - LightningStrike
Tumblewood (1) - Tictock
Koshi (1) - sicklucker
Gumshoe (1) - Fidei86
TicTock (1) - Gumshoe

Not Voting (1) - DoYouHas

On April 22 2016 07:14 gumshoe wrote:
I kinda get the feel sl doesn't care about this game, normally when you have scum mates your kinda invested / : as you let down your team when you scrub it up.

Ff is the better choice methinks.

On April 23 2016 07:28 DoYouHas wrote:
Shape - We'll be getting into this more today, but my original reasons for voting him are still good and he is likely scum.

Koshi - I want to say Koshi's active and aggressive style is town. But he jumped up and down on me for valid points against Shape. He jumped up and down on HtS for the null read of FF while ignoring things I thought pointed to her being town. I don't think we get into the EoD we had without at least 1 scum in the movers and shakers. (Koshi, HtS, Damd, and maybe TT) Koshi pushed the lynch of 2 town for sure and probably 3. He is attacking town, leading lynches on town and after being proven wrong on FF he still wants to off HtS instead of stepping back and reassessing. Thinking he could be scum.

HTS - She seems focused and productive. I like the way she pursued her scumreads on LS and TW early. She isn't getting mad at all the pressure thrown her way, trying to talk to people. Last time I caught her as scum she used her higher activity to spread suspicion on lots of the town and then letting others take up her ideas and run with them. She isn't doing that here. Only her EoD vote leaves doubt for me. According to NM HtS voting off her main targets to lynch someone scumming her is a big tell. I'm still going with my gut and thinking she is town.

Fid - I'm pretty familiar with Fid's scum game. I don't think this is it. Scum fid would be even less active than he has been here. He wouldn't be shying away from getting into it with LS like we are seeing here. The well-documented troubles that Fid has with LS would be a great excuse to fake activity without producing content. I also don't think we would see that drunk post from scum Fid.

SL - I'm putting off making a decision on him. I don't have strong feelings either way and he promised more activity today.

Damdred - Cautiously optimistic.

Gumshoe - Cautiously optimistic.

LS - dunno

TW, GB, TT havent gotten to yet

On April 24 2016 02:31 GlowingBear wrote:
HTS, since you're basing your reads mostly on VCA, why do you think there is mafia between me and DYH?

On April 24 2016 04:17 Koshi wrote:



HTS, why did you say "town pile on FF"

On April 24 2016 04:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Day 2:

gumshoe (2) - Tictock, gumshoe, Koshi
Tumblewood (1) - Half the Sky, Koshi, Tictock, gumshoe
Koshi (1) - GlowingBear
Shapelog (1) - Koshi

Not voted (5) - Shapelog, Fidei86, DoYouHas, Tumblewood, LightningStrike
At the current vote, gumshoe is slated to be lynched.
until deadline.

On April 24 2016 02:54 Tictock wrote:
I'm at work so not gunna bother with quotes atm.

I really don't have a read on DYH so I glanced at his filter. I noticed he never really gave a read on SL till his list post at night and even then he basically just said he didn't want to make a read yet. Could very well be lurking mafia but I'd place him closer to a null read based on a few of his posts having decent thinking.

@HtS what made you change your mind on LS?

Idk about Shape, need to give a proper look at his filter (actually I'm not sure if I've even bothered to open his yet). On the one hand my gut read is leaning town but the quality of his posts feels a little lacking and are reminiscent of his play later on as scum in Storm. HtS's point about his vote on SL is decent, but I don't think it's as strong as she is making it out to be.

Think thats all for now.

On April 22 2016 01:10 Shapelog wrote:
SaltShaker Kinda debating putting him in the scum lean cat. (I did) I would expect him to do more after saying most people are going to wait to post (his 3rd post.) Also this post really doesn't give much if you look at it:

A lot of his town reads aren't really explained (TT) and just feels rushed in a way. He is kinda avoids a read on 3 people (talks about FF, but doesn't actually really gives a read, more so on the threads interaction on FF) (HTS statement was pretty none positional) (and I have really no clue what he means on mine lol)

He also doesn't seem to go after anyone other than GB. And focuses on GB on his next post.

On April 22 2016 05:53 Shapelog wrote:

Agreed with SL. He doesn't seem really here much, and that last post from him wasn't great either.

On April 22 2016 06:28 Shapelog wrote:
Yeah this absent from him is pretty damming.

GB, I like his latest posts. And kinda fufilled some sus. form him.
TT, has posted more. Though there is something I need to check.
SL has done nothing really.

I also thought by now that Gum would show up and post by now.

On April 22 2016 06:41 Shapelog wrote:
##Vote: Sicklucker

My reasoning in my list + Still not being here

Might not stay, (as I am still looking at things) but is where my heart is.

On April 22 2016 07:10 Shapelog wrote:
Even though he did have sus. towards HTS. i do not understand why he thinks another vote without giving reasoning behind it. FF basically said "no show = vote" yet he is still looking at other lynches. It feels a bit opportunistic, and is really concerning if Sl gets lynched and flips scum. I feel like the first few posts was just him talking to talk, but now his person is getting lynched (other than LS, which by the time he posted the sky comment, was still before he went with damdred.)

On April 22 2016 07:24 Shapelog wrote:

I don't understand why you voted for him, then about 30 mins later (IIRC) when a sky lynch talk happens, you say "i would vote HTS."

It doesn't make sense to me.

On April 25 2016 05:15 DoYouHas wrote:
@HtS - Why don't you agree with me on Fid. What are you seeing in his play that is scummy that I am not? The only mark I have against him is that he drops off hard as scum and he hasn't posted much recently.

On April 25 2016 02:59 GlowingBear wrote:
You see, I have this pool of possible scum: HTS, Koshi and gumshoe. Gumshoe is basically for the hammer and for the martyring which looks bad imo. I'd expect him to fight his lynch with all his might if he was town. But he isn't. Still, I don't really know if he is scum. I'm really uncomfortable.

I still don't trust Koshi. But his explanation to me wasn't that bad. Still, I'd rather prefer his lunch than gunshoe's. I voted more to catch reactions, especially if he was Mafia - I was expecting that Mafia would jump on me for voting gumshoe out of the blue, but it didn't happen. It makes me very uneasy.

HTS posts looks convoluted to me. That assumption that there is certainly a Mafia between the underwhelming is very... Suspicious. Especially if DYH is in fact town. Plus, I remember she kinda defended SL when I first called him out? I'm not sure, but it felt she was trying to soft defend him.

I'm uncomfortable with DYH. His play in here looks very familiar to the last one where he was Mafia with Artanis.

So yes. This is where I'm at.

On April 24 2016 01:58 Half the Sky wrote:
The biggest indicator of an associative read between GlowingBear and SL might be Day 1, look at how the SL read just DROPS from post 142 to 253 and after. And considering how SL pushed me and that GB didn't put me on his post-lynch suspicion list (recap: it was Koshi/LS/gumshoe), it is quite suspicious.

Post requoted:





Some feedback on that would be nice.

On April 25 2016 05:49 DoYouHas wrote:


This is what is eating at me. I was convinced Shape was scum. The sl flip made that less likely. I don't want to drop him from my suspect list, especially since he hasn't said a word for a while, but I don't see him being scum with Koshi.

On April 24 2016 05:14 Koshi wrote:

I have no real reasons to think he is mafia except for the fact he is not really town and there is no real townie anything coming from him. Which I had 2 games ago when he was town. And didn't have when he was mafia. He just looks town by game events when he is mafia. And is town by his posting when he is town.

anyway DOTA tiems

On April 24 2016 07:27 Koshi wrote:

Well imo Shape is underwhelming and explained the meta read on him. The reason I say he looks ok this game is because he has the vote on sicklucker in his back pocket.

But pure based on his posting I think he easily could be mafia.

---

I don't understand what the inconsistency is. I think Shape is not his townie self (and it has nothing to do with spamming and post restrictions), and I think it could indicate him being mafia in this game and just not being able to give a fuck. I don't know about this other game he is playing in but clearly he made a mistake signing up for this one or he cba to figure out this one.

I don't know what the fuck you are doing. But my guts say that you can be like this as town, and for shape it is less likely. That's why my vote was on him.

---

All that being said. I have not the will to push anything in this game. I am now officially observing while being ingame.

On April 25 2016 05:51 Fidei86 wrote:


Do we think Shape's voting exhonerates him? If he were scum, if he'd managed to be on a wagon on scum that then got overtaken by a town wagon, I don't see why you'd then flip onto a town wagon at the last moment. That's just way too much weird play to make sense from a scum perspective.

Unfortunately, that also means that DYH's play makes a lot more sense.

So I'm at

Town: LS, Shape, TW
Confused about their voting right now: Koshi, gumshoe
No particular reason to lynch: DYH
Not scum as not pushing me???: HTS, TT
??? GB

On April 25 2016 05:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Day 2:

gumshoe (3) - Tictock, gumshoe, Tumblewood, GlowingBear, Half The Sky, Koshi, Koshi
Koshi (2) - GlowingBear, DoYouHas, GlowingBear
GlowingBear (2) - Koshi, gumshoe
Shapelog (0) - Koshi
Tumblewood (0) - Half the Sky, Koshi, Tictock, gumshoe

Not voted (3) - Shapelog, Fidei86, LightningStrike
At the current vote, gumshoe is slated to be lynched.
until deadline.

On April 25 2016 05:45 GlowingBear wrote:
ROFL KOSHI why do you not vote people you think is Mafia? You are refusing to vote gumshoe eternally, yet you've just said he looks bad. There was only ONE thing that made you think he was town, but someone pointed out it didn't make the guy town and you agreed it's flimsy

Your play makes no sense in this game, you are a liability to town even if you're town

On April 25 2016 06:46 Fidei86 wrote:
There are so many inactives at the f'ing deadline. It's confusing to me.

I've said before, it makes no sense to me for Koshi and Gumshoe to both come into the thread as the two leading wagons, and then both agree that the other is town and go after someone else. Unless they are both mafia? Am I crazy for this?

On April 25 2016 06:50 GlowingBear wrote:


Yes? What is bad in that post? Care to debunk?

Well, I won't be here and I gotta work. I'm okay with the leading wagons, but Koshi will definitely flip Máfia.

If stupidity reigns in here, lynch me but please, pretty please, at least lynch Koshi after I die

On April 25 2016 06:57 Fidei86 wrote:
Dani, how can Shape be mafia. What mafia gets onto a bussing wagon, then stays on it until AFTER another wagon has formed and is hitting town, to get onto the ML. That just makes no sense to me.

DYH though, I could dig. I'm going to re-read his filter again.

On April 25 2016 07:01 Tictock wrote:
Ugh, 3 pages in the past hour... Somehow I figured this was going to be the case.

Wont be home for a bit and not sure if I'll get fully caught up in time. Just managed the finish gums WoT and subsequent posts on w/e page that happened on.

I'll admit I am getting more of a townie feel from these posts, especially this one and the one where he defends Koshi.


Just doesn't seem like it matches up with a scum agenda, which would be to survive, if he's defending the counterwagon and pushing people who aren't exactly highon peoples to-lynch lists.

Not sure thats enough to convince me with such little time to think things through but it's a start.

Fidei would prob be my pick to lynch if we aren't lynching gum.

On April 25 2016 07:21 LightningStrike wrote:

sicklucker isn't exactly known for bussing his partners from what I remember of him. He only busses if the person asked them to bus which idk why he would do it so early.

Ugh he didn't after I replied to him?

On April 25 2016 07:37 Fidei86 wrote:
LS:



Also Dani, I notice that you aren't including me and LS in your little list.

Don't think I'm not on to you.

On April 22 2016 05:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
LightningStrike (2) - Half the Sky, GlowingBear
DoYouHas (2) - Koshi, Tumblewood
Half the Sky (1) - LightningStrike
Tumblewood (1) - Tictock
Koshi (1) - sicklucker
Gumshoe (1) - Fidei86
Not voted (5) - Shapelog, DoYouHas, Damdred, gumshoe, Fecalfeast

On April 22 2016 06:44 Hapahauli wrote:
Sicklucker (3) - FecalFeast, Damdred, Shapelog
LightningStrike (2) - Half the Sky, GlowingBear
DoYouHas (2) - Koshi, Tumblewood
Half the Sky (1) - LightningStrike
Tumblewood (1) - Tictock
Koshi (1) - sicklucker
Gumshoe (1) - Fidei86
TicTock (1) - Gumshoe

Not Voting (1) - DoYouHas

On April 25 2016 07:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Final Votecount - Day 2:

DoYouHas (5) - LightningStrike, Fidei86, Koshi, Shapelog, TicTock
GlowingBear (2) - Koshi, gumshoe, Half the Sky
gumshoe (1) - Tictock, gumshoe, Tumblewood, GlowingBear, Half The Sky, Koshi, Koshi
Koshi (2) - GlowingBear, DoYouHas, GlowingBear
Shapelog (0) - Koshi
Tumblewood (0) - Half the Sky, Koshi, Tictock, gumshoe

DoYouHas is slated to be lynched.

On April 25 2016 05:49 DoYouHas wrote:


This is what is eating at me. I was convinced Shape was scum. The sl flip made that less likely. I don't want to drop him from my suspect list, especially since he hasn't said a word for a while, but I don't see him being scum with Koshi.

On April 25 2016 06:06 DoYouHas wrote:


I have been giving TT a free pass unfortunately. He just hasn't drawn my attention much. LS confuses me at the moment, which is why I asked him those questions. He isn't comfortable with a gum lynch, he leans town on GB, he leans town on Koshi, he leans town on you. There is a lack of evolving reads around some of the most polarizing players in the game ATM.

I just think you are wrong on GB, though I'm giving your and gum's points a harder look to see if I can justify my read against them.

On April 25 2016 06:52 DoYouHas wrote:
Guys, I got an invite to play some league with friends I haven't talked to in a long time. I'm off through deadline. Lynch Koshi.

On April 26 2016 06:57 GlowingBear wrote:
So you believe both Mafia wasted their votes day1 HTS?

On April 25 2016 06:08 gumshoe wrote:

umm you sure about that?




(me in red with ls)









you scum reading me is one of the most consistent parts of your play 0_0 hell your attack on koshi for the past while has been based off him bieng unwilling to vote me, which suggests you think were scum together.

Why would koshi not be ecstatic of about my mislynch if I was town? How can you claim one of us is scum and be unsure about the other when your association read between us features so prominently in your arguments?

wtf is this erroneus back peddling XD

On April 25 2016 06:25 gumshoe wrote:


I can put you in thread with in 20 minutes of damdred wanting to kill sl (who was totally willing to kill him)



you show up 20 min after that post to remark how terrible the lynch that damred (who you think is so great) switched over to. Even though you had never once posted about ff till then (except to remark how scummy koshi is)

The window is small enough that we cannot rule out you bieng fully aware of the sl switch, and not going with it.

Also reads dont just disapear, they linger, and theres no reason to keep townreading sl because dam said so, as damm was totes wrong about ff (a sin you condemned koshi for)

also you dont get to post as much you have about me and base an ascociation read regarding koshi that requires me to be scum, without being sure im scum in the first place, which of course your not because im not scum : P

On April 25 2016 09:02 gumshoe wrote:
Yeah DYH conveniently just started town reading gb literally right after i attacked him.






before I attacked gb all dyh had was this

Now, why would he stick his neck out to save someone who there was no momentum on at the time (right after I made my case) and up till this pointhe conveniently hadn't read anything about but just so happens to have the same agenda as him(kill koshi)?

also this post refrencing the ff lynch is eriely similar to that gb post I put up earlier


gb for refrence


heres dyh's view on me for funsies





dyh has no reason to throw suspicuon onto me here for a bus, its not like I was that inactive (ala sl) or that BAD (ala onegu)

heres gbs view on dyh for further funsies.



(top is green bot is red)





yeah.....

heres all I could find on sl from dyh



seems to bolster his agenda of keeping mates at arms length until he has to get involved / :

nothing on dyh from sl that I could find.

Seems like sl had a policy of reciprocity, gb attacked him a little so he attacked him back a little, dyh ignored him so he ignored him back.

methinks this be gg / :

On April 26 2016 07:41 GlowingBear wrote:
Well, based on VCA, Koshi and Shapelog aren't mafia unless they unnecessarily bussed DYH. I find hard to believe. There was no need to bus so I don't trust this possibility.

So remaining Mafia should be between gumshoe TT fidei and HTS

It's basically auto

On April 26 2016 07:44 GlowingBear wrote:
Yeah it's auto.

I'm sure this was a medic dodge tho.

I'm voting gumshoe ##vote: gumshoe

On April 26 2016 12:08 GlowingBear wrote:
I've never wanted to lynch TT?

I don't know what you're talking about

On April 26 2016 07:41 GlowingBear wrote:
Well, based on VCA, Koshi and Shapelog aren't mafia unless they unnecessarily bussed DYH. I find hard to believe. There was no need to bus so I don't trust this possibility.

So remaining Mafia should be between gumshoe TT fidei and HTS

On April 26 2016 06:57 Half the Sky wrote:
So roughly 38m to End of Day or 2254, DYH lurked the thread (he GGed right after the lynch).

Looking at vote timings after 2300:













So yep, Tictock is actually right here. DYH bailed from the thread, could have told his scumbuddy to do whatever. So from his POV, the point on Fidei is valid, because all the votes came after, no one on the wagon gets a pass. I don't think Fidei is scum, but it's clearer to me where he's coming from.

On the other hand it's also possible that the entire wagon on DYH could very well be town, with DYH out of the thread, he's effectively relinquished control and no one else was voting Koshi.

We very well could have had a scumteam that really was low-activity and not so influential in the thread.

On April 26 2016 06:32 Half the Sky wrote:
GB being mislynched a shittonne does not give any indication for his play now. He fakeclaimed in Firefly yes, but I don't believe he did jack all in Outlaw. Fakeclaims are done for specific reasons when they aim for the objectives needed (to draw a blue, to divert a lynch, etc) and someone fakeclaiming or not does not and should not ever vindicate them. There's a ridiculous amount in GB's filter that indicates several problems including

(1) lack of followup day 1 reads,

(2) lack of engagement (or delayed engagement) with Koshi, he throws the names he does night 1 and I engage him first on Koshi when I discuss my phobias but he doesn't touch him until Koshi calls him on on this day 2.

(3) the dropped read on SL day 1.

(4) softpushing from sicklucker day 1 ("I'd lynch GB a little from his posts....and then selective reasoning on me when I was going to get lynched)

(5) his post highlighting why I was mafia was terrible in that it completely ignored arguments that were already made

(a) saying my posts are convoluted does not make me mafia when I explain them a bazillion times, furthermore that is parroting from Koshi one day later Damdred was confirmation biasing HARD but at least I could tell he was town based on interactions with other townies.

(b) Second it was VERY reasonable and not suspicious to surmise that a low-activity player was mafia, GB basically framed something that was townie (or at worst null) and framed it as mafia agenda. That behaviour itself is mafia driven. Read post 583 again if you don't understand.

(6) Softpushing from GB on DYH (see post 583) - he says DYH makes him uncomfortable, but what does he do about it? Nothing. He doesn't even engage him or change that read when he and DYH both vote Koshi. In post 628 you will see

(7) GB's push on Koshi makes no sense (through post 623). Koshi clearly explained why Shape was underwhelming compared to GB and that was based on the metas he had for both players. He def focused on some people more than others and he did use the argument too scummy to be scum, which was wrong on sicklucker...and he did the same for gumshoe. But it's a read that whilst bad is not exclusively mafia.

On April 22 2016 11:03 GlowingBear wrote:
22

Nevermind damdy. I think you're town so it is no use to argue on something that won't lead anywhere.

Do you think I'm town? I wanna bounce some thoughts with you if you're willing to trust me.

What are your reads atm? I really have a feeling that we have mafia between koshi/gumshoe/LS. Do you have any reason to disagree?

On April 23 2016 05:47 GlowingBear wrote:
For what reason you think Koshi and LS are town, damdy?

On April 27 2016 02:44 Shapelog wrote:
VC:

Ik someone made the agurement that Scum needed a ML here, and they associative read DYH and GB together that way. I kinda feel if that was the case though, that they would pick someone more like Gum to push, especially since Gum A) was easier to ML (guy basically voted for himself lol) and B) because anyone could have change his reads tbh to get him lynched. And the Gum was already in bad stands according to DYH. It also doesn't seem really realistic for them in the case to do that, as KOshi wasn't on top of enough peoples lynch list. There is also another one, in which someone said something about GB (maybe it was Gum) carrying the team, which is kinda meh considering the fact of the AFK time.

Actually, it is kinda weird that he was sus. of Gum enough to say that he needed to get lynched, yet he didn't push. Hmm, I get to it in the DYH part of this post.

The only real throw away vote tbh (I guess you could argue that GB is a bit throwy, yet it isn't solo) is from suppose vig (which btw, I trust his claim since him breadcrumbing and quick claim after sus. makes sense after dieing last game due to not claiming. I.E. Makes sense for him to be breadcrumbing and what not) So nothing there.

---

I've read his Filter, and this is some things I see.

• Early pressure on gum
  
• Pressure on me
  
• Town read on HTS
  
• Pressure on Koshi
  
• Town read on GB (reason:case on Koshi)
  
• On April 25 2016 05:29 DoYouHas wrote:
  

  Show nested quote +
  

  On April 25 2016 05:24 Fidei86 wrote:
  There are lots of other points against me - #1 is I have no f'ing idea who I want to vote this evening. Activity could be a thing - I have tons of OGI excuses, but I know those don't carry any weight.
  
  Does it seem likely that scum gumshoe calls the wagon on Koshi dumpster, when that's the only other one going?
  

  
  
  Any reasoning we can have around gum is WIFOMed all to hell. As soon as anyone asks to be lynched they are playing against their win condition. All that is left is whether or not town will do it more often than scum.
  
  
• keep options open on me
  
• Tinfoil, but it is possible he was lurking, since he GG after 4 mins after deadline, yet was AFK due to playing legue (which seems off to meh)
  

---

There is actually a lot more pointing to GB than anyone else actually. Like I knew a lot pointed to him, but damm.
The HTS vote from SL D1 over GB also seems a bit weird to me as well.

I am going to reread some more filters. Primarily Gum and TT and maybe Fidei86. Koshi I feel strongly town btw.

On April 27 2016 04:12 gumshoe wrote:
but yeah gb let me clarify,

if you had posted 3 or however more many hours after the lynch, then there would be no point here for me.

But the fact that you showed up just in time to be useless and mock town(just like dyh did) opens up the possibility that you had been there a little while before, watching as town doomed themselves.

given everything else I know about you (dyh asociation, the tic exchange, your push on koshi, your shitty night 2, your abandoning of your sl read, your omega town read of dyh) theres just seems to be a lot more suggesting this vote lurker possibility rather then the snarky happen stance you would have us believe / :

On April 27 2016 03:27 gumshoe wrote:



the bolded is what we cant know. With you bieng in thread within 20 min, we have to assume you very well could have been in thread longer, excuses dont work here as they are just want to be lies / :

also the day 2 post is an explantion for the day 1 post XD from an earlier conversation we had. Of course I can use it.

On April 27 2016 04:23 gumshoe wrote:
also this.



this post happened half an hour before the lynch.



at this point in time, sl was the leading wagon, and damdred was voting sl.

while you continued to vote ls...

so theres this half an hour gap between you bieng here while the sl wagon was active and not voting sl or sheeping damdred (two things you seemed to indicate youd be willing to do all cycle), and you showing up just in time to mock town (ala dyh) and you never mention that you had to go ethier / :

you say you were here just one min before the deadline




but do you understand why I have trouble bilieving that XD thats a rhetorical question btw, I dont need anymore excuses.

On April 22 2016 03:59 GlowingBear wrote:


I dislike this post from Koshi. He points out problems with LS and Shape but doesn't conclude nothing from it. Then he proceeds to vote... Ta-da! Fecalfeast.

On April 22 2016 07:28 GlowingBear wrote:
This lunch is obviously not hitting mafia

On April 27 2016 04:36 gumshoe wrote:


sorry can you boil this down? little bit confusing.

my point is that gb said hed sheep damdred and was willing to vote sl.

I can place him in thread at the time of the wagon on sl bieng active, yet he continues to vote ls.

a minute before hand he shows up saying the lynch is bad just like dyh did,

he claims he was gone for the lynch, but he was there half an hour before, and a minute before. Leaving him going out as a 30 min period that did not exist prior to his excuse.

Therefore we have fair reason to bilieve he was here, and he had a chance to make good on his sheep and even fight the ff lynch (who he was convinced was town) but did not.

Thats all im saying / :

his counter is why would he gloat 1 min before, my answer is we dont have to find a reason (though can surely be created)

because dyh did it, therefore there is a reason for it regardless of wether we know it.

wheres the problem?

On April 22 2016 06:37 Damdred wrote:
I just told you why we should lynch SL.

But you can't stay on hts nobody will vote her today.

On April 27 2016 04:46 gumshoe wrote:
ah fuck, yeah theres a big jump T_T my bad only the gloat post counts.

sorry for the mistake gb ) : you still scum

On April 27 2016 04:32 GlowingBear wrote:
Ok.

On SL: I thought his posts were suspicious, so I've called him out. I do those kind of things on every game because I always try to develop discussion. It doesn't mean, however, that it was a strong case that I would use as grounds to any lynch. Then I had to be and entire day AFK, and when I came back, I tried to do a big catch up post. In that catch up post I found informational stuff that led me to believe gumshoe and LS were Mafia (and to be fair, I don't even remember what it was). I saw nothing else from SL because I could read only until page 6/7 at that time.

Then I only came back two minutes before deadline to see a lynch that, by VCA, looked like it was going to hit town. I didn't have time to do anything.

I simply forgot about SL. Just like that. Because I thought I saw way more important things to pursue. And as I saw a clear fownie in Damdred, I tried to chat with him so we could work together.

---

Now, sometimes I reevaluate stuff but I don't state it in thread. LS was one of that reevaluartion. I scum read him almost every game, and Damdred correctly reads him almost every game. So I took Damdred's word for granted. I know I have my limitations as a player, and working together is really important to me when I have a strong town read I trust

On April 28 2016 00:45 Fidei86 wrote:
Well I didn't get up early because I'm lazy. And I've been at work all day. But I'm kicking off early to get home and start looking seriously through filters.

Also HTS you were here during the votes. This is ludicrous. You know me. You think as the last scum I bussed my last buddy to go solo? And that I did it when it was absolutely not necessary? Or that my call for 'consolidating' was actually a call to move off DYH? Yeah, if I'm alive at the end you absolutely have to look again at everyone. But voting me now over people who didn't vote scum last round on a last minute shenanigan? Come on.

On April 28 2016 00:53 Tictock wrote:


Why are you trying to convince her you are town, when she is your prime scumread?

On April 28 2016 00:51 Tictock wrote:
Another thing to note about Fidei is that he has done jack all today but defend himself. He's just stuck with his PoE list, and I still don't get why he wants to lynch HtS over me who has far more points about in his filter.

I mean I get things come up and whatnot he has been around this phase but it's getting closer and closer to deadline with no real effort to push his scumreads or refine his PoE list.