EPTIt just seems bad if he actually is VT since that just narrows down whoever could be another blue.
[M][N]Holy Guardians Chapter 1 - Page 51
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Shendelzare
Netherlands126 Posts
It just seems bad if he actually is VT since that just narrows down whoever could be another blue. | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
But all these dumb tells, non op reading people | ||
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Shendelzare
Netherlands126 Posts
Chocolate and Milo being on the same team? really? Calling Fidei as either blue or scum - why? And why out another blue as town? That really makes no sense when I see no other reason to scumread Fidei from his point of view? He scumreads VE early on but votes Damdred? That is a jump in logic to me. Onegu is probably scum. Moving on to other people... | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On June 06 2015 00:31 Damdred wrote: Response to case: 1) Scum can not care about the lynch generally if people are on town. Scum can decide to just not care about be around for the lynch if its going there way that day. KS was very active at all points of the game before final day leading up to the lynch. 2) The points against KS aren't that bad and are pretty solid, you even call them not horrible. You just disagreed with them. That doesn't make them bad. 3) Nobody has ever explained why i'm middle of the road, I have distinct town reads and distinct scum reads. Just don't get the point and it doesn't make me scum, if I wasn't taking hard stances on people I could see thep oint but I have. 4) scum reading people while they aren't in the thread isn't alignment indicative O_o, if you keep things until someones here you won't get a lot of work done in 24 hours. By comparison I could say that you are guilty of the same thing when its clear that I am not in the thread why would you do such a thing. I was wrong, kick played his claim badly and got killed. That doesn't make me scum, what you are saying though is that one of the most vocal players in the thread, who took one of the most drastic stances in the game and pushed a lynch until it happens is scum. None of this makes me scum and in fact its not a very strong case that generally follows a narrative with you fitting in this stuff to try to make me look scummy So my initial reaction here, is to say something about Damdred returning to his "middle of the road" style here. However... that is not the response I would have expected from a Scum!Damdred to my case. I was pretty sure he'd be pushing me super hard with GG. + Show Spoiler + who is like kinda following the game? I'm not sure what to make of GG... I'll get back to him later. 1 is actually a good point, but is only valid if we assume that there was no wagons on scum. It's possible, but I'm wary of that since Choco was the lynch prior to Kick and the Kick wagon started just in time to give Choco a safe place to go. It's super WIFOM but a team of Dam, GG, Choco could make sense given how things went down, but yea.. wifom. On Points 2 and 3 I just disagree? It sounds lame, but I def did not find your case on Kick super solid. There were decent points, but I def think you were mostly playing off his wall-o-text writing style. I've tried to explain why I find your style suspicious. I also feel uneasy with this style of play right now given how you and ritoky seem to have a "thing" going on. I'm not saying you two are a team here, I dont see anything to suggest that, just that you two seem to have a history and that might have allowed you to push your way of thinking on him, similarly to how townreading people kinda gives them a sense you are their friend. Am I making sense here? I might be overthinking it, but it's def something that has me looking hard at Dam right now. 4, Granted you did call me out when you thought I was acting pretty scummy right away. I prob shouldn't have glanced at thread as I was getting ready to leave then let myself respond all pissed off kus it really looked like you were doing a similar push on afk me like happened with Kick. I will admit a few things. My initial post after EoD was definitely placing blame, I didn't really intend it that way + Show Spoiler + That was really just my honest "OMG I can't believe that just happened" reaction post I'm not willing to clear him as scum, but his response is what I would expect from Town who thought they had solid reasons to push that wagon. There is definitely nothing clear cut about how EoD went down, and the timing of stuff felt so weird to me. I think it deserves at least one last look over, but since my urge to chase Dam with Fire right now could well be the beginnings of a tunnel I'm going to hold off till we have a little more info in Day phase. @Dam I'm not a huge fan of meta reads, but if you share some of your past games (maybe one as either alignment) it may help me understand your style a little better. I know my first experience with SL had me scumming him so hard just kus of how he plays, I might be in a similar trap here. | ||
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Shendelzare
Netherlands126 Posts
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
I have to leave for work though. I doubt anyone from the Kick train is getting NK'd, and unless I'm on the right track I don't think I will be either. So I'll have to leave my thoughts there. Assuming I'm not killed feel free to pose any questions you guys have towards me. I'd like to see some more solid stuff being brought up D2. | ||
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Shendelzare
Netherlands126 Posts
On June 06 2015 04:32 Tictock wrote: So my initial reaction here, is to say something about Damdred returning to his "middle of the road" style here. However... that is not the response I would have expected from a Scum!Damdred to my case. I was pretty sure he'd be pushing me super hard with GG. + Show Spoiler + who is like kinda following the game? I'm not sure what to make of GG... I'll get back to him later. 1 is actually a good point, but is only valid if we assume that there was no wagons on scum. It's possible, but I'm wary of that since Choco was the lynch prior to Kick and the Kick wagon started just in time to give Choco a safe place to go. It's super WIFOM but a team of Dam, GG, Choco could make sense given how things went down, but yea.. wifom. On Points 2 and 3 I just disagree? It sounds lame, but I def did not find your case on Kick super solid. There were decent points, but I def think you were mostly playing off his wall-o-text writing style. I've tried to explain why I find your style suspicious. I also feel uneasy with this style of play right now given how you and ritoky seem to have a "thing" going on. I'm not saying you two are a team here, I dont see anything to suggest that, just that you two seem to have a history and that might have allowed you to push your way of thinking on him, similarly to how townreading people kinda gives them a sense you are their friend. Am I making sense here? I might be overthinking it, but it's def something that has me looking hard at Dam right now. 4, Granted you did call me out when you thought I was acting pretty scummy right away. I prob shouldn't have glanced at thread as I was getting ready to leave then let myself respond all pissed off kus it really looked like you were doing a similar push on afk me like happened with Kick. I will admit a few things. My initial post after EoD was definitely placing blame, I didn't really intend it that way + Show Spoiler + That was really just my honest "OMG I can't believe that just happened" reaction post I'm not willing to clear him as scum, but his response is what I would expect from Town who thought they had solid reasons to push that wagon. There is definitely nothing clear cut about how EoD went down, and the timing of stuff felt so weird to me. I think it deserves at least one last look over, but since my urge to chase Dam with Fire right now could well be the beginnings of a tunnel I'm going to hold off till we have a little more info in Day phase. @Dam I'm not a huge fan of meta reads, but if you share some of your past games (maybe one as either alignment) it may help me understand your style a little better. I know my first experience with SL had me scumming him so hard just kus of how he plays, I might be in a similar trap here. English isn't my first language - so I'll just say that I understand this middle of the road thing means he's not taking a position. If I'm wrong someone correct me. His case on Kick means he had a read on him it was wrong but he still had a read on him. He took some position. If he was apprehensive on taking a position he wouldn't have had a case on him. I mean you disagree with his case great, but you can't scumread him for being middle of the road. I mean I'm just reading your post and you make it clear he's taking a position. So I don't get that at all. Are you trying to force a read on Damdred? I mean if Damdred is scum it's not for what you are saying. The whole ritoky/Damdred association makes no sense. Those two from their postcount seem like they have been around. Just because they are experienced I mean that would put one person in a better position to read another one way, not sure why meta reads make you more suspicious of someone. I don't see how you are seeing that negatively or positively. I mean if there is a meta read being messed about - there's only 3 scum out of 12 people left, I would assume someone else here will call them out at some point? Fudging meta reads should be a deterrent if there's enough experienced people around. At least I think that's a safe assumption to make. I don't understand some of the potential associative reads being made, this is one of them. I can understand why meta reads you might be hesistant to trust. But how they use those reads to push or figure out the game with more evidence, I think is more critical. If I'm not misunderstanding anything I think tictock is trying to force a read on Damdred. Which I think shows scum behaviour. | ||
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Shendelzare
Netherlands126 Posts
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ritoky
United States6851 Posts
On June 06 2015 04:31 Shendelzare wrote: Alright, took more looking at Onegu's filter. Is he trolling or just posting just to post? Chocolate and Milo being on the same team? really? Calling Fidei as either blue or scum - why? And why out another blue as town? That really makes no sense when I see no other reason to scumread Fidei from his point of view? He scumreads VE early on but votes Damdred? That is a jump in logic to me. Onegu is probably scum. Moving on to other people... you haven't played with onegu before lol. | ||
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ritoky
United States6851 Posts
On June 06 2015 04:40 Tictock wrote: Crap I'd like to take a look at Damdred's Votes into Townreads post, plus the scum read on Nydus there looks interesting. I have to leave for work though. I doubt anyone from the Kick train is getting NK'd, and unless I'm on the right track I don't think I will be either. So I'll have to leave my thoughts there. Assuming I'm not killed feel free to pose any questions you guys have towards me. I'd like to see some more solid stuff being brought up D2. i know it is nitpicky, but this is the 2nd time you have done something like this. "i'd like some more solid stuff" implies that there is a solid/valid reason to make a scum case on you. | ||
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Shendelzare
Netherlands126 Posts
If you think I'm wrong based on your experience, fine, I am just looking at his filter now and just trying my best. | ||
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Shendelzare
Netherlands126 Posts
If Onegu is just a weird poster in general then I'm probably going to give myself a headache trying to read him. | ||
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ritoky
United States6851 Posts
On June 06 2015 04:57 Shendelzare wrote: Although if you could explain why I'm wrong that would be helpful. If Onegu is just a weird poster in general then I'm probably going to give myself a headache trying to read him. i won't speak for him or make up your mind for you. you should go here and glance through some of his previous games quickly: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/390080-tl-mafia-database | ||
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ritoky
United States6851 Posts
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Shendelzare
Netherlands126 Posts
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Damdred
15669 Posts
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Shendelzare
Netherlands126 Posts
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Shendelzare
Netherlands126 Posts
On June 06 2015 05:52 Damdred wrote: I'm much more sure on n than on tick n being NHM? | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
Day 2 Ritoky, as Lauren Proudman (Citizen - Vanilla Townie) was shot! His soul joined the Scarlet Menace! Lol I'm traveling and drunk. I'll add flavor later | ||
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