On January 24 2016 00:45 Palmar wrote:The case against Kitaman27
Remember Palmar from Outlaw mafia? Man that guy was a dick. He shot all the people who were right and argued his way out of a lynch with the rest.
This game the guy who has the potential to do this is Kitaman. He's a very good player who would basically always be considered top tier if he played more. He is especially good at town.
What all the angry people (rayn, koshi etc) who think town played terribly in Outlaw fail to realize, is that it's their own damn fault for not leaving a rock-solid conclusive case behind that I couldn't argue against. I'm not going to make their mistake, this case will be a comprehensive reasoning Kitaman27 is mafia.
Part 1: Kita's original scumread on Vivax
This is both the best part about the case, and also the most difficult one to understand. I'll try to use small words for the benefit of certain people.
Vivax posted the post that immediately revealed him as mafia (well, not immediately, but it became clear he didn't follow up at all on it. This is the particular post:
Show nested quote +On January 20 2016 00:55 Vivax wrote:
Picking 1 1, obviously a lie.
Obviously the truth.
Pretty much sums up why this shitty number claiming strat won't do jack.
After this, Kita had a "discussion" with Vivax
Show nested quote +On January 20 2016 00:58 kitaman27 wrote:
Well based on the pick order, you basically have an idea of what every single player picked by day one. Essentially claiming the numbers reduces the odds of overlap, while mafia knows what each other is picking so they can avoid it already. Like a few games ago, like 6 players chose [9] or something stupid like that. What's the disadvantage Vivax?
Vivax responded to this with:
Show nested quote +On January 20 2016 01:26 Vivax wrote:On January 20 2016 00:58 kitaman27 wrote:
Well based on the pick order, you basically have an idea of what every single player picked by day one. Essentially claiming the numbers reduces the odds of overlap, while mafia knows what each other is picking so they can avoid it already. Like a few games ago, like 6 players chose [9] or something stupid like that. What's the disadvantage Vivax?
You dont know if its truthful what anyone claims and if it is then mafia can pretty much pick the sweet numbers to at least have 1 of their members pick first, I think.
So this was the extent of their conversation and posts about each other until I joined the thread about 2 or 3 hours later.
The important part is that Vivax wouldn't go on to post anything more for a long time. I basically saw Vivax's post and immediately called him out as mafia, then Kitaman decided to agree with me, without having shown no inclination towards calling Vivax mafia in the previous interaction.
Show nested quote +On January 20 2016 03:36 kitaman27 wrote:On January 20 2016 03:15 Palmar wrote:On January 20 2016 00:55 Vivax wrote:
Picking 1 1, obviously a lie.
Obviously the truth.
Pretty much sums up why this shitty number claiming strat won't do jack.
Vivax is mafia. Not simply because he refuses to cooperate but because he refuses to cooperate AND that is everything he brings to the table.
Vivax was the first person that I picked out as mafia too.
Shows up to complain about something, but doesn't do anything about it.
The point is that what was originally just a reason to put a pretty mild question on Vivax became a pretty strong scumread without Vivax doing anything in the meantime. And the first sentence in Kita's post is the important one. He CLAIMS that he had already picked out Vivax as mafia, so why didn't he do anything about it???It's also important to notice that if you go to Kita's filter you can see that while he consistently called Vivax mafia he was never actively trying to lynch him. He wasn't yelling for the lynch in the same way I do. There is no way a town Kita cares so little about the lynch.
Part 2: Kita's case on me
Show nested quote +On January 21 2016 08:40 kitaman27 wrote:On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote:
The reason is quite simple. If we assign everyone roles, mafia can just freely pick a role that wasn't assigned to them. The entire point of having ffa/check players is for them to take roles that SHOULD have been taken before them to PROVE the players before them actually took the roles they were meant to take. It's a failsafe.
Let me show you why this is so, so, so wrong.
Palmar's plan:
Koshi, damdred, and kitaman27 are free for all picks that are instructed to pick a role above them in the list to PROVE the players above us actually take a role that they want.
Result:
Koshi, damdred, and kitaman27 wind up as Mysterious challengers because they were idiotic enough to pick a role that was already selected. BUT AT LEAST WE VERIFIED 3 PICKS, RIGHT GUYS?
Kita's plan:
Koshi picks his assigned power role
damdred picks his assigned power role
kita picks his assigned power role
Result:
Between those three roles we now have
1x watcher
2x tracker
2x protection
1x nuke
1x secondary lynch
1x parity cop
1x alignment cop
So what's more important, all those abilities or verifying that 3 people above us took the roles they promised (which has no alignment indicative information. Even if a player takes their assigned role, they still could be mafia)
I have already explained why having the checks is important and far better. Also I want everyone to understand that I put shady, experienced players on the check roles because I wanted to fucking deny them roles. I wanted them to just become MC at random.
But more importantly, even if he doesn't agree with me, it doesn't make me mafia. Nothing he says in the first part of the case makes me mafia.
Show nested quote +On January 21 2016 08:40 kitaman27 wrote:On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote:
If we have no failssafes, mafia can just pick whatever the fuck they want. Essentially, my plan is pointless.
No they really can't. For a mafia player to "pick whatever they want", that means that the role can't already have been chosen by another player. If they pick above another player, then they are denying the player below, that player claims and we have a combination of role checks, the kitaman27 role, and trackers to figure out who it was.
So that leaves the list of roles that go unpicked. They're almost all trash:
Hero - Picked by VA anyways
Puppeteer - Useless for mafia
Dimensional Lemming - Useless for mafia
Speaker for the Dead - Useless for mafia
Artanis - Useless for mafia
GreYMisT - Useless for mafia because it only delays things for 12 hours.
Janitor - 1 shot use and can't be used on the lynch. Not a high priority
Copycat - Not a priority
Tommy the Fireman - Okay mafia role, but not a
Psy - If he uses his ability, it confirms he is in the game and we get him by role check, track or kitaman27
Alchemist - A delayed 1 shot vig? meh I suppose it is useful for mafia, but not a huge priority pick to justify breaking the plan
Yu Narukami - Kinda useful role, but I suggested that it be picked in my post so it wouldn't be open
Knight Artorias - Strong mafia role
Essentially there is one mafia role that is worth grabbing and we have sicklucker's honest check on that one. Furthermore, since all role selections are basically public, you are responsible for your actions. Say the tracker decides that they are going to "undermine" your plan and grab a different role. They still gotta say who they visited each night, their tracker results etc. So essentially lie each night about their action. It's not worth the mafia risk.
On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote:
I basically can't be arsed arguing this, I am out of energy trying to get people to be not stupid.
Kita is very likely mafia because he's not dumb enough to think his version is an actual improvement.
On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote:
Kita's additions completely undermine my plan.
Again a bunch of plan talk, none of which makes me mafia.
Show nested quote +On January 21 2016 08:40 kitaman27 wrote:
The fact that you're trying to take my clearly superior plan and justify it as a reason that I'm mafia is preposterous. Earlier in the game you mentioned that town's objective is to maximize the amount of blue roles we get. Yet here you are pushing a plan where there players are doing "honest checks". When I edit your plan to maximize the blue roles it makes me scum? That's laughable.
Palmar is mafia
So finally, here is the part that actually "makes me mafia". Notice how he wrote a massive case and
nothing in it was actually about me being mafia. It was just a giant argument that his clearly shitty plan was somehow better than mine because it gave scummy people roles.
My plan focused exactly on getting town as many blue roles as possible
I just didn't want scum to get them too!
There is literally no way kita believes that me being convinced that my plan is better like this somehow means I'm mafia. It's entirely possible he's bad and genuinely (irrelevant of his alignment) thinks that his plan is better, but there is no way he believes it makes me mafia.
It was a giant ass fake case based on nothing. Literally flinging shit to see if it sticks.
Also, just like the Vivax read, I don't feel like he made a strong push to actually lynch me.
In fact I don't think Kita has passionately pushed anyone this game. It's just some shitty lists of 3-5 people thrown together as maybe mafia.
Part 3: Various other things
- Tonally it feels like Kitaman is structured but not really invested
- His latest "list of various scummy people". Is once again just a shitty list with no conclusion or no motivation to kill someone specific. Just a "these people are maybe mafia".
- For a long time it felt like his filter was relatively short. It's up to maybe 7 pages now, but it was 5 pages back on day 1. Again, the whole "not invested" thing.
- He didn't at all help me strongarm the lynch onto Vivax. This doesn't mean they have to be scumbuddies, it just once more means that despite a strong, consistent scumread of his being lynched, he barely cared. He kept randomly calling Vivax mafia while not really trying to do anything about it
Part 4: Suggestions on how to deal with Kita in the future if I'm dead
- Shoot him
- If he tries to argue with you, just copy paste this case repeatedly instead of responding to him
- Vote him
- Reply to all his posts by posting youtube videos of Donald Trump speeches
- Never listen to him
- Don't believe "checks" on him. He's mafia.
- Insult him using creative British words like "Wazzock" and "Buffoon".
- Shoot him again
I hope you all enjoyed my case on Kitaman27. He is always mafia this game no matter what he says. If this game ends and he's still alive there will be killings.
Good Luck!
EPT
)
