[M][N] Unoriginal Name Mini Mafia
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 09 2016 12:44 slOosh wrote: I can see where you are coming from - I was merely giving my whole thinking process. The fact is I play (or at least I think I play) a more logical fashion, sometimes roundabout style. I was noting that some other playstyles hate this (and the player mentioned was just one that came to mind). The tone of this post is scummy. Cooler shit later. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I'm starting off with some setup analysis because the only thing I cared about on page 5 was Artanis posting the possible setups. I'm sure at least some of you already figured this out, mafia geniuses you are, but as I'm still working through it, I figure that possibly some of you are too. The first thing worth noting about this setup is that the mafia know for sure whether or not there is a doctor in the game. If, down the line, it's apparent that the mafia is playing around a doctor, we can say with a greater degree of certainty that we are in Setup B or C, and that should inform our vetting of role claims accordingly. The second thing is that the Named VT, the Doctor, or the Veteran (and there is certainly one of these roles) knows the setup fully (or in the Doctor's case, almost fully -- is missing the other town role). If you are one of these roles, you should of course keep that under wraps for now, but know that you have unique information that may help us unravel complicated role claims down the line, and don't forget that you have that information, because the rest of us have to wait for you to flip to get it. Actually, I lied earlier. There was one post that caught my attention, I've touched a bit on my opinion on it already. On January 09 2016 08:50 GiygaS wrote: Before I leave if there's a vanilla townie, should they claim? It would give us useful setup info and maybe confirm someone right? I like that this player, right from the start, was thinking about how to gain additional info about the setup. I think the answer to this question is "no" -- we don't need the information this early, and saving it until later may allow for a much bigger blowout if the hypothetical Named VT ends up under fire or the mafia get involved in some claims fiasco -- but I think looking toward this immediately at the game start is correct, as we were given additional relevant information to start the game (the four possible setups), and GiygaS immediately began thinking about how to maximize the use of this information. I looked at the rest of the filter for this player, and GiygaS is talking to what seems like half of the thread (and almost all of the active players), throwing early reads out and being willing to defend them on concrete (at least for 8 hours into day 1) grounds. I'm sure this read is pretty easy, but I think GiygaS is town. I also like this question from rayn during page 6: On January 09 2016 09:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: Actually Koshi why did you pick medic dodge as an example to the named VT question? It has nothing to do with it. Koshi does come to the incorrect conclusion about why the Named VT shouldn't out. The mafia already know whether or not a Doctor is in the game, so the Named VT potentially outing doesn't change this aspect of the equation. I bring this up not to talk about Koshi (I find the "I misread the OP" back-and-forth that ensued to be not particularly indicative of anything for him) but instead to highlight rayn, who I think was pretty on-point about everything early. His reaction to Tubesock's comment about dumb tells and his questioning of slOosh (both on page 8) were both correct. I think raynpelikoneet is also town. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
(Not really, but since you asked so nicely, I guess I can try...) On January 09 2016 12:25 slOosh wrote: Hmm big things are you as strong town for picking up on similar things to me + more. GGTeMpLaR I also noticed his first post was kinda awkward, but I felt like he could very well be those townies that if you pressure they just ... react poorly? I'm not sure how to phrase it, but I don't think a direct pressure approach would work out. So I wanted him to post on something else to figure out if he is nervous b/c scum or nervous b/c newer player. Vayne ... I feel like he is reading me slightly more scum than someone reasonably could? Either that or his style of playing is very different to mine, almost like Oatsmaster or something if he is still around. No one else has too much for me. What is this post actually trying to say, slOosh? In the first place, I don't follow what you mean when you say: "I wanted him to post on something else to figure out if he is nervous b/c scum or nervous b/c new player." What "something else" did you want him to post about? GGTemplar opened his post by saying that he intended to "tone down" relative to his previous games. You then asked him about his reads in his previous games. A few questions about this: (1) How is this "on something else"? (1.5) What even is this "something else"? (3) What is the difference between being nervous due to newness or scumminess, and (3b) How can you tell that difference from the question you asked? I don't understand the direction of your question to him. Second, you say this: "Vayne ... I feel like he is reading me slightly more scum than someone reasonably could? Either that or his style of playing is very different to mine, almost like Oatsmaster or something if he is still around." What is your actual conclusion about Vayne? What's unreasonable about his scumread on you? Your post purports to give reads about two different people (as it's in response to rayn asking you for reads), but you come to no conclusion regarding either that I can see. Do you have actual conclusions about them? On January 09 2016 12:40 slOosh wrote: I asked specifically about GiygaS because I took his initial wording as more scum vibe. It's really awkward that a VT would say "vanilla town" and not differentiate that he is talking about the Named VT, and I think blue roles are somewhat unlikely to want to talk about role claiming and whatnot, which leaves perhaps a careless scum post. I don't agree with the conclusion of your townread but I understand it and find it logical. What wording did you take as "more scum vibe"? Specifically what is awkward about a VT asking the question GiygaS asked earlier in the thread about the Named VT revealing? (If you assume that this VT isn't dumb enough to think he's the only VT in the game, then you can infer that he's not asking for a mass VT role reveal, at which point it's pretty easy to discern that he's referring to the named VT.) And if you disagree with rayn townreading GiygaS then why did you leave rayn's townread conclusion with a "makes sense"? If you think GiygaS is scum then it shouldn't "make sense" that someone can read the exact same thing you do and come to the opposite conclusion. You can't both be right, so how can you both be making sense of the same information? ((Also: boo rayn for giving a lazy "Okay that makes sense" response instead of making this observation. I can't do all the heavy lifting here...)) On January 09 2016 12:44 slOosh wrote: I can see where you are coming from - I was merely giving my whole thinking process. The fact is I play (or at least I think I play) a more logical fashion, sometimes roundabout style. I was noting that some other playstyles hate this (and the player mentioned was just one that came to mind). Are you saying Vayne's read on you is illogical or comes from an illogical playstyle? Why is this? This is similar to my previous question on the matter, but it irks me that you are a self-described logical player but don't explain why you think someone scumreading you this early is illogical. Also wtf does "a sometimes roundabout [logical] style" mean lol | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 09 2016 16:34 darthfoley wrote: I'm also voting Koshi as it stands. The more I look at his posts, the less helpful they seem to the Town. ##Vote: Koshi What is unhelpful about Koshi's posts in your own words? As they seem less helpful the more you look at them, I expect that you will be able to explain this pretty easily for this potato townie questioning you. | ||
Eden1892
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On January 09 2016 12:57 Koshi wrote: ##vote: Nooniansoong I got reasons. But they are "terrible". I am also extremely tired so I can't promise I will remember them. But I think he might be biggest shot on mafia. This is really out of the blue to me. noonian has posted literal nothing. Pretty sure you won't answer this until you wake up, and I hope you remember them, because I want to know them, so you're gonna need to tell me to the best of your recollection. | ||
Eden1892
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Eden1892
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Needless to say I'm not feeling very good about slOosh. The early posting was rather directionless in my opinion (or at least, the direction was difficult to discern, where I think normally it shouldn't be) -- I for sure don't get the attempt to discern whether or not GGTemplar (I'm not capitalizing all that shit and I'm not sorry for it) is scum or nervous town, since I don't really see any clear criterion that would help distinguish the two, and certainly nothing that would arise from the softball slOosh lobbed at GG early. Just felt like there was a lot of air masquerading as ink in the first two-thirds of the filter. slOosh picks it up a bit and gets somewhat more concrete in the accusation of Koshi, but I don't like how uninteractive the accusation is. When I saw Koshi had scumread noonian, I was perplexed as well, but my instinct wasn't "kill this man," it was "ask him wtf he's talking about." slOosh's reaction seemed more like "I can make this guy look really bad with this." In fact while I'm at it: Koshi spends half his posts talking about some setup fluff. What's scummy about "setup fluff"? It gets the right juices flowing in my brain when I start a new game, and discussion tends to out easy townreads like GiygaS that wouldn't otherwise arise. Koshi spends the other half of his posts repeating the same post, telling me (his scum read), why I am scum, instead of telling others. What does this mean? Don't get what's suspicious about him talking to you about his suspicions of you, so please quote something more specific to illustrate where this is more malevolent than you make it sound here. Koshi leaves the thread by placing a vote on someone other than me, without giving reasons, and also claims that they are best chance of being mafia. So why didn't you ask him more about it and find out his answer? You kinda react to it, but it's not in a way that looks like you're suspicious of him for suspecting noonian. If anything you're supplying reasoning for him to suspect noonian (saying noonian had a weird exit to the thread). It sounds like you agree with the read! But then you vote Koshi for it? | ||
Eden1892
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On January 09 2016 17:01 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I actually think that it would be very strange for him to 'design' this plan as a mafia alignment. Best case scenario he gets people to critically reread Noon's filter which, as you said, is practically nothing. It seems more intuitively correct if he's town and just wants to throw out a read. I mean, I can get that he might just randomly post something as mafia without thinking it through. Mafia do that all the time, even smart mafia. ((Especially potato mafia, as Koshi can sometimes be. Much love Koshi!)) But we can't tell that from his post. Which makes the correct line of response to talk to Koshi about it and figure out wtf he's talking about. Not just try to help supply the reasoning for Koshi, and then scumread Koshi for making the post, as slOosh did. | ||
Eden1892
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On January 09 2016 11:46 Tubesock wrote: Is this going to be another game where people get towned for dumb tells or not reading the OP? GGTemp, I also wonder what you meant when you said in that first paragraph. Irrelevant or not. On January 09 2016 12:07 Tubesock wrote: gurss I never liked the too stupid/scummy to be scum type reads. Meh This was also a weird sequence of posts that I'd hate to have buried in all the discussion about slOosh and Koshi. Like... why even bring this up? What triggered the thought if, as Tubesock says, "no one" got townread for dumb tells/etc.? I mean, I get it, I hate 'em too, but I still just went "what the hell?" when these posts came up, because it didn't look like that was happening. So I'm wondering what made Tubesock say this. Tubesock why did you say this? | ||
Eden1892
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On January 09 2016 16:58 darthfoley wrote: I like this Eden fellow, so crisply formatted What a charming young... man? woman? whatever. Nice to talk to you too. I think I asked you something. I for sure meant to, whether or not I actually did, and you should answer that so as to receive more crisply-formatted posts from yours truly. | ||
Eden1892
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Eden1892
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On January 09 2016 17:13 darthfoley wrote: Well, originally I thought that the conversation's direction regarding sloosh was pretty productive. It got him talking, and also gave out a decent amount of info to sift through, which you've courteously done. Out of all the active players so far, I think rayne has been the most town; his posts are well thought out and his questions are inquisitive. So, I looked at Koshi closer because he was one of the adamant Sloosh scum posters next to rayne. For me, I am mainly am just confused as to why he's been reluctant to back off Sloosh after saying he wouldn't target active townspeople on day 1. Maybe he strictly means he won't vote for active townspeople but still target them in discussion, though his grilling of Sloosh followed by a pivot towards a poster with no history seems out of place and too random for my liking. He cites "terrible" reasons that he probably won't remember in the morning, which basically provides no information about anything at all. Why couldn't he include at least an outline of something relevant? I'm unclear on Sloosh, because some of his questioning lacks a clear direction and looks kind of filler. I think Giygas is town as of now. Your point on his intuitive search for more info at the start of the game re game setup is an angle I hadn't thought of. A counterquestion. Why should Koshi be reluctant to back off? Just because he said he wouldn't lynch active players? Most pushes this early in day 1 don't lead to lynching the people being pushed. I would even go as far as to say that if your early pushes are engineered to lynch people, you're doing it wrong. The point of putting other players' feet to the fire early is to force them to make substantive statements about the game state. This is helpful regardless of whether the player is town or mafia, active or inactive, yada yada. I agree it's a bit bizarre that he pivoted over to noonian and doesn't post anything. Not leaving any reasons for it is, indeed unhelpful. But you said this: I'm also voting Koshi as it stands. The more I look at his posts, the less helpful they seem to the Town. This sounds to me more like an indictment of his entire posting history, not just his admittedly bordering-on-useless "vote/push" post. You're not telling me that of all the posts Koshi has made this day, the whole body of work is unhelpful due to this one post at the end, are you? If you are, forgive me for finding it uncompelling. I think Koshi's been of at least moderate use in generating discussion. I think his pressure on slOosh was constructive, and I would certainly not call the body of work unhelpful. You're going to have to do better than just handwave the whole thing as unhelpful. Maybe cite something specific for me outside of the noonian vote? (Or if you have nothing else, then please elaborate as to why that invalidated the rest of his posting history this game.) | ||
Eden1892
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On January 09 2016 17:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: boo to yourself eden You do read what I say! I am curious why you and slOosh seemed to just mutually drop your conversation about your divergent reads on GiygaS. Weren't you a little curious why slOosh could read the same thing you did and conclude the exact opposite thing about GiygaS's alignment? | ||
Eden1892
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On January 09 2016 17:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: There is no reason for me to answer this before slOosh does. I will after that. I will just say that coming to opposite conclusion (which is btw pretty strong wording here -- since i literally stated my read is "tentative") and concluding that the other person makes sense are not mutually exclusive. They aren't exclusive, I just figured you might still be curious enough to ask. But you are right, I would much rather hear slOosh's answer on this first. On January 09 2016 17:29 darthfoley wrote: Meh, i'm starting to see why there are newbie mafia games run lol. It was a bit too shallow to vote on Koshi given the circumstances. The more I think about it, the more I do see the utility of his grilling of Sloosh near the start. It's true that he doesn't have to back off a scum read, especially because as you said, lots of people get grilled day 1 and it doesn't necessarily mean it's aimed at a lynch. I was under the impression that Koshi actually scum reads Sloosh, although it's useful info either way. The more reflective I am of the Koshi v Sloosh dynamic, the more I realize that I can't let my frustration of being kind of clueless make me jump to hasty conclusions. At this point, I can't constructively add much until Koshi explains his Noon read imo. I don't understand what was shallow about voting Koshi there. If your takeaway from my questions was "you are wrong for voting Koshi," that takeaway isn't the one I intended to convey. The takeaway was "I don't understand why you are voting Koshi" -- and you're essentially telling me you don't have much to add to the discussion until Koshi explains his read. But... you still had a reason for saying that Koshi's posts were unhelpful. After all, unless you intend to tell me your statement that "The more I look at his posts, the less helpful they seem to the Town." was made up, something you read made you think this. I just want to know what that something is. | ||
Eden1892
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((Yeah, sure, I'll work on it.)) Also writing many words does not get you townread, not for me, and shouldn't for anyone else either. lol | ||
Eden1892
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If anybody tr's me for posting lots of words, and not for the quality of those words, then they're probably scum or at least lazy town who should be accused to push them into playing better. | ||
Eden1892
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On January 09 2016 18:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: GiygaS - town slOosh - scum mderg - town Nooniansoong - town boxerfred - null Tubesock - scum Koshi - town VayneAuthority - town GGTeMpLaR - null Kmatt - null Is there anything we disagree here? I purposely left darthfoley out because you are questioning him and i don't wanna affect that regardless of my read on him. u the real mvp 4 the bold homie. I like these: GiygaS - town slOosh - scum Tubesock - scum Koshi - town boxerfred - null Kmatt - null though with the caveat that Koshi got some explaining to do about this noonian thing. I have next to zero opinion on any of Vayne, mderg or noonian. Put a gun to my head and I say "Vayne is town" and "I don't fucking know about the other two, put that gun down bro." Only thing I see you saying about mderg so far is a tentative town read on him. I think mderg has said nothing to make me feel either way about him. You call him town, is that still "tentative" or did something solidify that for you that I didn't see? Same question with kushoonian actually. | ||
Eden1892
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Eden1892
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On January 10 2016 03:13 darthfoley wrote: The reasons I said that were because of the Noon vote, and because I thought he was really trying hard to sway rayne's townread on Sloosh in a way that seemed a bit suspicious. It wasn't that much to go on. Just woke up so i'll get up to date with the thread, but I wanted to make sure I responded to this Ok. So, you felt the Noonian vote and the attempt to sway ray's vote was suspicious. In what way(s) were they so? I don't care that you have decided Koshi isn't suspicious anymore, I just want to know why you felt he was so I may evaluate your alignment. | ||
Eden1892
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(1) Why is it suspicious that Vayne generated a lot of discussion about somebody without, in your estimation, contributing a lot himself? (2) Why does giving town and scum reads make boxerfred town but not several other people in the thread (including Vayne) town as well? And to give an answer for once -- a named VT is unique so they can claim and be confirmed town without a counterclaim | ||
Eden1892
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On January 10 2016 04:37 Tubesock wrote: @Eden - I did think the thread was heading in the towning people for too dumb to be mafia reasons. Also I posted to post. At the time there really wasn't anything I felt compelled to respond to. Easy town reads Reyn, Eden, SloOsh, Nooniansoong GGtemplar I didn't like his first like 5 posts but he looks a lot better this morning. Koshi while gives me some weird scuzzies I am not willing to lynch him. Vayne I am not willing to lynch either. I like his tone. the rest haven't said anything I found interesting or memorable. I have to work today and have Christmas dinner tonight but after that I'll be in thread. Please explain the bolded -- I'm afraid I don't follow. GGTemplar's first five posts began around the time you made your comment about dumb tells, if you thought they were suspicious then how did you not find them worth responding to? And I hope you aren't telling me that you've managed to narrow your lynch pool to five people day 1, but also have nothing to say about those five people. Why are mderg, Kmatt, GiygaS, darthfoley, and boxerfred outside of this pool of townreads? | ||
Eden1892
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Eden1892
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I townread darth and do not want to lynch him. I think his answers to my questions were prompt, and while I don't particularly like a couple of his reads, I was more concerned with seeing how well he would defend them under scrutiny. He has done so to my satisfaction -- it's clear that these reads are coming from someone who is actively thinking about the game instead of from someone trying to appear as though he was. | ||
Eden1892
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On January 10 2016 05:48 darthfoley wrote: May I ask for your reads so far Eden? I'm fine with the amount of questions/direction of the questions, but can I get a (short) summary of what conclusions you've drawn from these questions? You're town. Tubesock is probably mafia and has my vote for the moment. I thought slOosh was mafia earlier. I thought his post looking at reactions to the events transpiring around him, and discussing the people he thought reacted in a way that was out of place, was a pretty good post though. There's a few other thoughts, but they aren't substantive enough to be worth bringing up right now. | ||
Eden1892
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Combined with his demeanor (basically see... I think ray's description earlier) -- he's being very direct and unambiguous with his reads, too inflexible to be mafia keeping his options open and yet too flexible to be tunneling mafia -- and he's probably town, certainly not the lynch today. | ||
Eden1892
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Eden1892
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On January 10 2016 08:03 darthfoley wrote: TR = ? Town reading | ||
Eden1892
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On January 10 2016 15:26 Tubesock wrote: ##Vote: GiygaS GiygaS should be latching onto the vaqueness of tone and "weird scuzzies" statements that Darth made. His case if he were town would include things like how I scum claimed, bitched and whined about something that probably wasn't going to happen, and then when I was called out for it I bailed scummily. That I have 3 posts and that each one is the epitome of doing "just enough" to stay under the radar. That maybe I was trying to play up the too scummy to be scum vibe. If you are going to make a case, it should be something like Tubesock's Tubesock is mafia case. Not, wow we have the same reads but Tubesocks town reads are so weird! There is plenty to case me on beyond just what Darth has said without needing to parrot the most active posters. As someone who is currently voting you and is quite interested in lynching you today, how would you explain the above to me to be coming from a townie instead? Being conscious of the problems with your play thus far makes me more inclined to kill you, rather than less (as I figure was the intended effect) -- I'm not really impressed with the "X is scummy because he called me scummy for ABC reasons, when you should be scumreading me for XYZ reasons" argument, I'd rather just kill you for XYZ (and maybe ABC) and sort out X later. | ||
Eden1892
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On January 10 2016 16:30 slOosh wrote: Eden, what do you think about Tubesock's point that GiygaS had more or less the same townreads as Tubesock, yet cites his townreads as the reason for voting Tubesock? It's interesting, a pretty reasonable read. But I would still rather kill Tubesock, as that's the only thing he's posted (as of me typing this) that's left me willing to consider not killing him, and as I already thought GiygaS was pretty solidly town. What do you think? | ||
Eden1892
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I still have a distinctly separate, stronger, desire to kill you, in no small part for the behavior you ascribed to yourself. Perhaps you're missing my point. Your argument about GiygaS is reasonable. To this outside observer who already believes he's town and you're scum, it's not compelling enough. Why should I switch my vote? | ||
Eden1892
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I thought he was town because I thought his entrance was solid. Just going to quote myself on it: I like that this player, right from the start, was thinking about how to gain additional info about the setup. I think the answer to this question is "no" -- we don't need the information this early, and saving it until later may allow for a much bigger blowout if the hypothetical Named VT ends up under fire or the mafia get involved in some claims fiasco -- but I think looking toward this immediately at the game start is correct, as we were given additional relevant information to start the game (the four possible setups), and GiygaS immediately began thinking about how to maximize the use of this information. I looked at the rest of the filter for this player, and GiygaS is talking to what seems like half of the thread (and almost all of the active players), throwing early reads out and being willing to defend them on concrete (at least for 8 hours into day 1) grounds. That said, I'd certainly acknowledge that GiygaS had a significant drop-off in thread interaction since then, which weakens the read to some extent. In tandem with your argument (which I think is reasonable), it's enough to give me pause. I'm going to decline answering the rest of your questions for now, because I can think of a reason why town!GiygaS would do that, but I'm not going to fill that answer in for him. He'll have to explain himself without me giving him a freeroll. GiygaS: What do you mean when you say that Tubesock's townreads were weird? Why do you think they're weird when your views seem to be very similarly aligned to his? | ||
Eden1892
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Eden1892
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On January 10 2016 17:00 GiygaS wrote: That would have helped, when your filter is that short its hard to say much else when there's basically nothing else in your filter. There's nothing of substance in that except for that post, and the one just now where you scum read me because I scum read you for the wrong reasons. Er, can you answer his question? "That would have helped" isn't an answer, and the rest of this is noise for the purpose of answering him. | ||
Eden1892
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Eden1892
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Eden1892
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So a short filter and him calling some of his town reads easy is the difference between "null" and "top lynch"? | ||
Eden1892
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I think I understand what you are trying to say now. You are saying that: Easy reads on sloosh, Noonian? None of these reads have any reasoning behind them. The vagueness with things like tone or "weird scuzzies" make me think scum is the difference between Tubesock being "null" and Tubesock being "top lynch." Is that correct? | ||
Eden1892
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On January 10 2016 17:19 GiygaS wrote: Along with the context that that was basically his only content post, which I didn't think needed to be said in my post. So his reads made him your top lynch because he didn't explain them? You realize that you argue this in the same post where you give a reads list, largely without any explanation of the reads therein, which has almost the exact same reads as the ones you're criticizing, right? This is where I don't follow you and I'm starting to think Tubesock may be right. When I see that someone who hasn't posted much in the thread has remarkably similar reads to me, I generally move them from my null pile to my town-lean pile -- as their having similar reads is usually an indicator that they're seeing the same things I'm seeing. If their posts are vague and that catches my attention, I usually ask them about their reads and why they came to the conclusions they did. But I don't think I've ever had the idea that someone who had very similar reads to me is mafia for not explaining those reads very much. It just doesn't make sense. And then in particular, the idea that he was null before that post, but top scum afterward, doesn't sit well with me or make much sense to me either. It would seem to me that if Tubesock had never posted that post, you would still have him in your null pile. But because he posts reads largely agreeing with you, and doesn't explain them as much, that makes him top scum? I don't buy it. | ||
Eden1892
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Someone do me a solid and give a tldr for boxerfred being the lynch over either of giygas or tube sock please. Don't particularly mind it, but would like to understand the development. TIA. | ||
Eden1892
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I guess I should ask for a little more than tldr lol | ||
Eden1892
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I'd rather one of giygas or tube sock though. Pref giygas | ||
Eden1892
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Kmatt lives too? | ||
Eden1892
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Great feature btw. Even if replacing is a bitch, mod killing people isn't fun either. | ||
Eden1892
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I will go out on a limb a bit and say that everyone that killed boxerfred is town. Ray put it best: no one was trying to kill boxerfred. We just had a LOT of people saying "sure, why not." I think it's extremely unlikely for instance that both tube sock and giygas are mafia, and so that means the mafia could have pushed one of those wagons over the top. This indicates a mafia that's relatively inactive, maybe one active player tops who couldn't steer conversation by himself. And I think we get a bunch of confirmed town off the boxerfred wagon. | ||
Eden1892
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Tubesock (2): GiygaS, darthfoley GiygaS (2): Tubesock, Eden1892 nooniansoong (2): raynpelikoneet, mderg VayneAuthority (1): nooniansoong slOosh (1): VayneAuthority Koshi (1): boxerfred Not voted (1): Kmatt GGTemplar, Sloosh, Koshi and mderg are for sure town. Ray is also town. He had plenty of opportunities to drive one of the Tubesock/Giygas wagons home if he wanted to save boxerfred -- from the strict standpoint of saving mafia, his line was very inefficient -- and he would have also been okay bussing boxerfred if he felt boxerfred couldn't be saved. Scott jumping in immediately with some knowledge bombs after replacing in doesn't mean anything. Dude probably had these notes all day from observing the game and updated them once he dropped in. If his activity keeps up then I'm not lynching him, but it's important not to give a pass just yet. Really just do not give a fuck about VA or kush right now. ray is going to make me give a fuck before the night's over, and I'm fine with that. Will look into these guys next chance I get. Still think there's probably one mafia between Tubesock and GiygaS, and that zero is only marginally more likely than two (which just isn't happening). Aaaand that leaves darthfoley who I remember being ok. Think my priority is: (1) figure out how I feel about VA and Kush (2) figure out this GiygaS/Tubesock thing **(3) paranoid lynch ray way down the line because he's the only player here good enough as scum for me to totally whiff on. (** 3 may not apply and I plan for it not to) | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 11 2016 07:35 mderg wrote: He's at least playing pretty similar to his last towngame On January 11 2016 07:53 mderg wrote: Well, kush is producing less content than the last game I've played with him. And even in that game he was not producing enough content for me. I can definitely see where you're coming from. This sequence confuses me. If kush is playing similarly to his last town game, then what does it matter what his content level is, mderg? Why did you switch your vote? | ||
Eden1892
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Eden1892
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Eden1892
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Then I forgot. Whups. But I DID remember this: If anyone besides Koshi or ray dies tonight, then we can be pretty sure we have a doctor. Since both of them are very likely town, and they're never both mafia this game, neither of them dying indicates a medic dodge kill. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I think Tubesock is town. I am not sure if GiygaS is town or mafia. Very willing to entertain that the argument was between two townies, am 100% sure it wasn't two mafia. If this isn't obvious to anyone at this point, I can elaborate, but I think Tubesock's posting throughout this phase speaks for itself. He had a mediocre/bad start, but that doesn't mean very much, and his recovery has me sold. + Show Spoiler [For Eden] + Don't bother reading this, I was gonna do this but then I saw the stuff about darthfoley and found more interesting stuff to talk about. Typing all this with html tags was a bitch so I'm keeping this here for later. Following from that, some vote count analysis. I'm filling in my reads as green and flipped boxerfred as red. I will keep my reads limited to the ones I think are uncontroversial so as to limit the number of leaps needed to accept my premises. Vote Count (16.5 hours) Tubesock (4): Eden1892, Koshi, GiygaS, darthfoley slOosh (2): GGTeMpLaR, VayneAuthority VayneAuthority (1): nooniansoong Koshi (1): boxerfred GiygaS (1): Tubesock (9.5 hours) Vote Count Tubesock (3): Koshi, GiygaS, darthfoley VayneAuthority (2): nooniansoong, slOosh GiygaS (2): Tubesock, Eden1892 slOosh (1): VayneAuthority Koshi (1): boxerfred boxerfred (1): GGTeMpLaR nooniansoong (1): Raynpelikoneet (1.5 hours) Unofficial Vote Count Tubesock (3): Koshi, GiygaS, Raynpelikoneet VayneAuthority (2): nooniansoong, slOosh GiygaS (2): Tubesock, Eden1892 boxerfred (2): GGTeMpLaR, mderg slOosh (1): VayneAuthority Koshi (1): boxerfred (1 hour) Official Vote Count Tubesock (4): Koshi, GiygaS, Raynpelikoneet, darthfoley boxerfred (3): GGTeMpLaR, mderg, slOosh GiygaS (2): Tubesock, Eden1892 VayneAuthority (1): nooniansoong slOosh (1): VayneAuthority Koshi (1): boxerfred (Final) Final Vote Count boxerfred (3): GGTeMpLaR, slOosh, Koshi Tubesock (2): GiygaS, darthfoley GiygaS (2): Tubesock, Eden1892 nooniansoong (2): raynpelikoneet, mderg VayneAuthority (1): nooniansoong slOosh (1): VayneAuthority Koshi (1): boxerfred On January 11 2016 01:45 darthfoley wrote: Good morning I like the way Tubesock has defended himself over the past 3-4 pages so i'm ##unvoting for now. On January 11 2016 05:28 darthfoley wrote: Given how this Tubesock/GiygaS has progressed, i'm more confident in my vote for VA. He hasn't posted anything recently, and I find very little substance in what he has posted. I'm with you on this one sloosh ##Vote: VayneAuthority On January 11 2016 06:28 darthfoley wrote: I read through VA's filters from the previous two games and I see what rayne is saying. VA's D1 posts are consistently not substantive as town. I don't see any sense in considering Rayne as a better lynch than Noonian on D1, so I'm back on Tubesock. ##Unvote darthfoley: What changed in between these posts for you? You retracted your vote on Tubesock about 6.5 hours before the lynch, saying that you were satisfied with Tubesock's defense of himself. You even felt that your argument on Vayne was better for the matter, since it didn't try to resolve a confusing situation between GiygaS and Tubesock. But then just a few hours later, you say that because Vayne is "consistently not substantive as town" on D1, you're back to voting Tubesock? Even though you were satisfied with his defense? | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 12 2016 07:11 nooniansoong wrote: i townread darthfoley for somethign but i forget what Oh, well that changes everything. | ||
Eden1892
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On January 12 2016 07:22 darthfoley wrote: What changed is that I went back and looked at Tubesock vs. GiygaS again. As GiygaS pointed out, Tubesock had basically only provided one read of substance (exluding posts like, "I like darth because his posts feel towny") the entire day: GiygaS. I also realized that his case of GiygaS regarding "our reads are the same but he says it's weird" is actually quite easily explained... because my original post that GiygaS quoted explained his reasoning in full. So you reread Tubesock's posts, after your unvote, and found that Tubesock had only given one read all day? That's odd. How much reading did you really do? Because before you even unvoted, Tubesock had plenty to say about other people in the game: On January 11 2016 00:47 Tubesock wrote: I'm onboard for the Boxerfred or Kmatt lynch. VA is an ok enough lynch. He'd be number 4 though. Noon is a terrible lynch. I'd lynch Rayne before Noon. I don't know how to help you with a meta read, but if you have some other questions I'm around because apparently I'm not sleeping for awhile. On January 11 2016 01:56 darthfoley wrote: Right now I'm most suspicious of GiygaS or VA for a red D1 lynch, but I'd also like to hear the case on boxerfred I also question that you went back and reread the initial case Tubesock gave, as if you had, you would have noticed that GiygaS did not quote you in his original post. Tubesock filled in the posts from you to explain his case. Would you care to resolve these discrepancies? | ||
Eden1892
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Why did you have GiygaS as one of your best targets when you returned to the thread and unvoted Tubesock? What did you see that made you do a complete 180 there? | ||
Eden1892
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Top targets: darthfoley, scott31337 Figure these guys out: Nooniansoong, VayneAuthority, GiygaS Watch this guy who's probably town, but also good enough to be mafia here: raynpelikoneet | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 12 2016 07:53 Koshi wrote: Why is mderg town Eden? On January 12 2016 07:54 Koshi wrote: Ohyeah nvm. I know why he is town. LoL mderg is town boys. On January 12 2016 07:54 Koshi wrote: "likely town" gr8 talk fam | ||
Eden1892
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I'm dead = there is a medic. I'm alive = there is no medic because we know I'm town. | ||
Eden1892
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Mafia for sure don't have a medic and no one else died in the night. Seems to point to Setup A which means someone we suspect is probably a freeroll townie. God Bless America | ||
Eden1892
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Eden1892
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On January 12 2016 08:05 GiygaS wrote: Time to claim. I'm cop checked tube sock he was mafia. Now back to work! I crossposted with this. I also don't believe this for one second. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
(1) Tubesock was framed. GiygaS is a real cop, but claimed immediately like a donkey. This I believe highly. Also puts us in Setup A which is where I thought we might be based on nightkill. (2) Tubesock is actually mafia. GiygaS is a real cop, but claimed immediately like a donkey. I doubt this. (3) GiygaS is fakeclaiming. Seems very bold. I kinda doubt this with the mafia being down to two people. If there is a cop to counterclaim GiygaS then the mafia trades 1-for-1 at a very bad time for them to be doing so. If we're in Setup D and there is no cop or doctor, then GiygaS has to explain for the rest of his life why he didn't die that night when the mafia have no way to stop his scans except killing him. | ||
Eden1892
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On January 12 2016 08:14 GiygaS wrote: Am I not supposed to immediately claim of I find red? | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 12 2016 08:16 Tubesock wrote: It seems amazingly stupid to fakeclaim here. Town has too many mlynches available to make it worth a 1v1 Agree. I think you were framed and we are in Setup A. Or you are good at the mafia. Either one. But I think it's A | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 12 2016 08:15 GiygaS wrote: And why would mafia frame tube when most people said they thought he was town again. He's a good target for a cop check because of all the controversy around him and the divergent opinions about him in the town. Controversial figure, likely check, makes him an easy choice to be framed. Honestly don't even understand this question. What is the profile of a likely frame target in your eyes? | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 12 2016 08:19 Tubesock wrote: I'm not sure if that hurts me in my feeling or not. Lol I didn't say you were bad. Just that you played pretty good if you are mafia. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 12 2016 08:18 GiygaS wrote: And this is where I learn I suck at this game even more than I thought we've all done it my friend! But yes in the future, please question your guilty check and extract more reads out of them first. It also gives people more time to say stuff about your check. Think about it like this. Your role, when you hit a guilty, basically reads like this: "You may switch the lynch to a guaranteed mafia today, but the day will end immediately when you do so." When would you do this? As late as possible in the day, to maximize the amount of discussion pre-flip, and thus find more data to detect the mafia. | ||
Eden1892
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On January 12 2016 08:22 Koshi wrote: A: 8 VT, 1 Cop, 1 Named VT, 1 Framer, 1 Roleblocker, 1 Goon B: 8 VT, 1 Cop, 1 Doctor, 1 Roleblocker, 1 Godfather, 1 Goon If there is a named vt, there is a framer, and we might not have mafia. But I never seen a framer not frame mafia. If there is a doctor, we got mafia. You think mafia wouldn't frame Tubesock there? I agree that framing a mafia to be innocent is probably more optimal, but Tubesock seems like a pretty straightforward case to me for framing a townie guilty. Related: If there's a doctor does he just claim sometime today? Without a roleblocker, even if doctor dies immediately, we get one more free scan. And as long as the doctor is someone that's not obvious town, the mafia is forced to shoot two more players that they normally would never shoot, which means two more days of working with a very limited pool of possible mafia. | ||
Eden1892
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And yeah, normally mafia do frame themselves innocent, instead of trying to outguess the cop. I just think that this might be a situation where outguessing the cop is actually somewhat viable. But mainly I just want to believe I was right about Tubesock. Lol | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I am VT | ||
Eden1892
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On January 12 2016 08:32 Tubesock wrote: When town has essentially 4 confirmed town, and unlynchable Eden, why wouldn't you frame me? It's not that ballsy. Especially since GF is still alive. ??? | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 12 2016 08:35 scott31337 wrote: Nobody died? Nice | ||
Eden1892
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On January 12 2016 08:54 mderg wrote: I think Eden claimed named vt but I'm not sure because his earlier posts suggest that he isn't I claimed Vanilla Town | ||
Eden1892
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Especially now that we know there is no GF and Tubesock's comment wasn't a lucky slip. | ||
Eden1892
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On January 12 2016 08:58 darthfoley wrote: I said he only posted one read of substance. Regarding the reads you quoted, I explained at the time that it didn't make sense to consider Noon more towny than Rayne at that point in the game. I think being "onboard" for boxerfred or Kmatt is pretty safe at that point in the voting process, especially because at this time it was 4 to 3 for Tubesock vs. Boxerfred. Would've been tied 4/4 if he changed from GiygaS to Boxerfred. Boxerfred hadn't been very active and you would get lots of town cred if you supported a correct lynch day 1. I mean we've already confirmed town everyone who voted for Boxerfred, so losing an inactive mafia isn't the end of the world if it basically makes you an unlynchable for a while. However, people then jumped off the Tubesock wagon and he didn't need to do this, while still getting towncred for being "okay" with a boxerfred lynch and consistency for sticking with GiygaS. GiygaS didn't directly quote me, but he basically did "not much more to say on him that darth already hasn't" That's great and all, but at the end of the day, you're not explaining why it is that Tubesock's posting, which was essentially unchanged between your unvote and your subsequent vote, no longer was townie enough for you. You've just gone in after being called on it and basically said some things that, if true, were already true of Tubesock before you unvoted. Like if you felt his reads weren't substantive enough, that's fine, but you either decided that they were substantive enough when you unvoted him (as that was the reason you voted him initially), or you unvoted him despite them not being substantive enough. Either way there's a glaring discrepancy that your explanation fails to satisfy. | ||
Eden1892
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Is the game that straightforward? Ray dies because he's onto kush who is the only mafia on the team that's not under heavy pressure? Or... On the other hand. Why did we successfully hit mafia scan with a framer in the game? If Tubesock is town we discussed why mafia might go for the good and frame him guilty. But if Tubesock is mafia. Why would you ever not frame him town?? Is he not an obvious copcheck regardless of alignment? Again the only thing I can think of is that mafia went all-in to protect the third member who's less on the radar. They had framer and if Tubesock is mafia, they HAD to frame the other guy inno. Then they shot ray who could have been argued as scum over 3-4 confirmed town. Shot screams protection of the 3rd player. I think the right play here is probably lynch Tube, if he flips mafia lynch kush. If he flips town lynch darth. Weird thing though. I think darth is mafia with only Scott or kush as well. Darth and Tube are definitely not a scum team. Vayne's n1 push on darth is strange -- could be distancing but that's a very disproportionately large effort from Vayne just to do something that doesn't advance mafia agenda. So basically I got: Tubesock/kush darthfoley/kush darthfoley/Scott kush/scott could also work IF neither Tube not darth are mafia. I really doubt they are both town though. If Scott could just be obvtown we could solve this... | ||
Eden1892
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I am going 20000 Leagues deep on tube getting framed and ray being shot to protect kush. | ||
Eden1892
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Goddam poker analogies forcing me to play to odds instead of following gut | ||
Eden1892
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On January 13 2016 06:44 GiygaS wrote: I'm a little bit weirded out that widen refused to believe my cop claim until everybody else did I believed your claim basically from the drop, it didn't make sense otherwise. I ran through all the possibilities to be thorough, but my acceptance of your cop claim was pretty quick and certainly not "until everybody else did." I didn't believe your scan to be true. And I still don't. I'm voting Tubesock with significant reservations, and may very well vote somebody else by EOD | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 13 2016 07:54 darthfoley wrote: At the time I unvoted I did believe Tubesock's defense against GiygaS. However, as the day progressed I realized how easy I am to manipulate because most arguments seem more credible to me than they really are. I started to get this feeling because Rayne kept grilling Tubesock over it regarding details I hadn't thought of. I then voted on VA because I was suspicious of his inactivity and thought it was a safe bet. But because I trusted Rayne the most, I took his advice and looked through his D1 posts from other games. I saw his point and decided that I wouldn't vote VA EoD1, leaving me to either go back to Tubesock, or randomly vote for people I didn't have strong suspicions of: GiygaS, Boxerfred, slOosh or Koshi. I didn't find any of those people more suspicious than Tubesock, so I voted Tubesock. Even though Tubesock had 3 votes when I got back on the wagon, votes were spread thinly so I didn't want to screw up with some shot in the dark against someone else. I'm gonna need a little more than "I'm easily manipulated" to explain your sudden dissatisfaction with Tubesock's defense. As someone who has the same issue of being easily swayed by credible-sounding arguments, I still don't flip for no reason. The reason may not even be GOOD, but there's a reason for the flip. You haven't actually given me that reason. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I know they are never the scum team. So if they can't both be town then lynching either one is equally fine from an information standpoint. Then I don't feel like a donkey for voting darthfoley instead of the copcheck. I just have trouble with the concept of darthfoley being town, which makes it hard to answer the "can they both be town" question. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 13 2016 10:15 Koshi wrote: Riddle me this, who is mafia out of those 2 there is 1 guy who people thinks is a good player who has solely attacked (now) confirmed townies during the entire entity of D1 and only came back at the very end of the day to defend a mafia and suggest to lynch between giygas and Tubesock. who then during the night was completely useless but made a testament AGAIN saying there is mafia between giygas and tubesock, for reasoning he found during D1. who then during the start of D2 when it became clear giygas was cop and got a redcheck on Tubesock, said that tubesock was very likely framed. But waffled on it a bit and waited and waited and waited and then just followed suit and voted Tubesock reluctantly because you know, "poker reasons" Or the other guy who has been solving the game, lynched mafia, been attacked by mafia, been involved in everything, has the highest filter in the game, is generally townread, voted for the redcheck D1, and has really not made a single mafialike post in the entire game. Who is the mafia guys? Who could it be? Well, there are multiple issues with your descriptions, like the part where I'm actually good, or have a reputation built off of anything besides being a loudmouth that talked way too highly of himself. But mainly I wonder who you mean by #2. There's multiple people who have played better than me, like everyone who lynched mafia day 1. If you're talking about yourself then you're clearly town and I have no clue what this crybaby tantrum is about because you're never being lynched. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 13 2016 10:50 GiygaS wrote: Eden can you explain why you thought I was lying initially? I read the guy town so logically*... Never had a knee jerk reaction to game-changing info? It wasn't smart lol | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 13 2016 00:48 Tubesock wrote: slOosh is Town. First to vote, votes Koshi. slOosh then moves onto VayneAuthority after slOosh and Koshi hug it out and Vayne says he prefers to lynch someone else then votes slOosh. slOosh makes it clear he'll go to Boxer and then does before even Koshi does. He went to Boxer when I still had 4 on me and it was 2:2 boxer/giygas. If you think I will flip red then this shows he saved me over Boxer and killed our roleblocker instead of GiygaS. Tinfoil that he forsaw Boxer switch and wanted town credit. But after I flip green, this clears him 100%. His read progression on wagons and his votes: (GiygaS, me, Boxerfred, VayneAuthority): + Show Spoiler [VA scums slOosh too much] + On January 09 2016 12:25 slOosh wrote: Hmm big things are you as strong town for picking up on similar things to me + more. GGTeMpLaR I also noticed his first post was kinda awkward, but I felt like he could very well be those townies that if you pressure they just ... react poorly? I'm not sure how to phrase it, but I don't think a direct pressure approach would work out. So I wanted him to post on something else to figure out if he is nervous b/c scum or nervous b/c newer player. Vayne ... I feel like he is reading me slightly more scum than someone reasonably could? Either that or his style of playing is very different to mine, almost like Oatsmaster or something if he is still around. No one else has too much for me. + Show Spoiler [Scums me and VA 4 lurkee profile] + On January 10 2016 02:46 slOosh wrote: Ok so I think it's a fair assessment to say that thus far in this game, I have been receiving the most flak. There's been some other things here and there, but not quite the same level as the attention to me. Additionally, I would say that the general vibe thus far is quite good. There is a good atmosphere for discussion, people are talking and explaining instead of shouting / attacking. So I would say that I expect mafia playstyle (in this context right now) to look more laid back, non intrusive and perhaps adding some fuel to the slOosh lynch wagon to make sure it goes through. Who fits this bill? mderg - I read him as detached from thread. I'm one of the biggest topics at this point and he has yet to say anything about me. He only posted when prompted and doesn't look interested in helping people figure things out. Tubesock - rayn pointed out his complaint of something that had not happened yet. Scum complain about things without doing anything to help. He is lurking hard so tough to say more, but in this context, scum would be more likely to lurk. VayneAuthority - hasn't produced any posts outside of getting suspicion on me - fits the bill of getting the D1 mislynch secured without putting more effort than necessary Will answer GGTemplar's list next. + Show Spoiler [towns Boxer, with bonus Darth find] + On January 10 2016 03:01 slOosh wrote: I like darth's posting thus far. He engages in topics that are relevant to the thread at the time and gives fleshed out explanations. I believe that mderg's read shows that he isn't reading the thread closely. If he was, (or if he was at least reading darthfoley closely), he should have seen this post. I would also suspect that he should also have been able to point out darthfoley's mistake in time order, as Koshi posted what he did before my spurt of posting, before I was an "active poster". Furthermore, I don't get the sense that he is actually trying to convince anyone. He is throwing out a read, explaining it, but that's it. Looks like he is trying to keep up appearances. I liked this post from boxerfred. He thinks Koshi is scum, and first thing he does is question why other people have town reads on him. He actually looks engaged in wanting either others convinced to lynch Koshi or himself convinced that Koshi is town. + Show Spoiler [scumlist mderg VA Tube] + + Show Spoiler [VA secondary lynch target] + On January 10 2016 16:45 slOosh wrote: I think it is a decently a compelling point against GiygaS and am interested in his response. At this point I would place mderg, vayne and kmatt as lynch preferences. I don't see how people are reading mderg town, and I've yet the time to properly read vayne's meta b/c I don't really see any content from him. + Show Spoiler [votes VA] + On January 10 2016 17:15 slOosh wrote: Bah I'm falling asleep so can't followup on Tubesock / GiygaS till tomorrow. I will leave with my stronger preference on lynching Vayne. He is clearly not interested in engaging with town in any fashion. His best read after me is a total cop-out. And I just found out that while he doesn't bother adding to town discussion at all, he does make sure he leaves a vote on me in the voting thread. I think this is the best lynch right now. ##Vote VayneAuthority On January 10 2016 15:30 rsoultin wrote: Edited Vote Count Tubesock (4): Eden1892, Koshi, GiygaS, darthfoley slOosh (2): GGTeMpLaR, VayneAuthority VayneAuthority (2): nooniansoong, slOosh Koshi (1): boxerfred GiygaS (1): Tubesock Not voted (4): mderg, Kmatt, Raynpelikoneet Currently, Tubesock is being lynched. You have until Sunday, Jan 10 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00), or to lynch someone. Voting is mandatory and done in this thread. + Show Spoiler [Says GigygaS vs Tube is TvT] + On January 11 2016 05:28 slOosh wrote: Yea I definitely don't think we should be lynching either GiygaS or Tubesock today. There's enough good things from each player but nothing so bad that you could lynch them with that much confidence (there might be and if you see something please share with the rest of class). It could easily be town vs town. + Show Spoiler [can go on Boxer if it goes] + On January 11 2016 05:58 slOosh wrote: Ok. I'm ok with that too if we end up going that way. + Show Spoiler [Votes Boxerfred] + On January 11 2016 07:05 slOosh wrote: I'm moving to boxerfred. I really don't think Tubesock is the lynch here. ##Vote boxerfred + Show Spoiler [Votebox, slOosh votes with #1 scumread] + On January 11 2016 06:25 Trfel wrote: Edited Unofficial Vote Count Tubesock (3): Koshi, GiygaS, Raynpelikoneet,darthfoley VayneAuthority (2): nooniansoong, GiygaS (2): Tubesock, Eden1892 boxerfred (2): GGTeMpLaR, mderg, slOosh slOosh (1): VayneAuthority Koshi (1): boxerfred Not voted (2): Kmatt, darthfoley Currently, Tubesock is being lynched. You have until Sunday, Jan 10 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00), or to lynch someone. Voting is mandatory and done in this thread. + Show Spoiler [Noon read] + Beginning to talk about Noon switch link On January 11 2016 07:51 slOosh wrote: rayn, just so you don't feel like you are talking to deaf ears: I disagree with your initial noon case. The first quote he said that you thought was useless was like 1 hour into D1, giving a towntell to Koshi for being indifferent doesn't seem weird and being ok with lynching Vayne for various reasons doesn't seem that weird either. I think it is a playstyle thing where you assume everyone should play a certain fashion and if they don't they are scum, but they could just be playing a different playstyle. I will agree with you that he has low post count, but I think at least he is checking into thread ala. tubesock read. why did you spend all this time making this towncase for an un-cc'd named vt........ | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 13 2016 07:15 darthfoley wrote: Okay I've read the last couple of pages and I will try to respond to everything that's been presented against me. I'll provide my reads currently Confirmed town: slOosh (named VT and no one can counterclaim), GiygaS (cop) ~100% confirmed town in my mind: GGTemplar. As I posted earlier, GGTemp was on the boxerfred wagon from the beginning, and I can't see a mafia strat including bussing your RB from almost the beginning of day 1. I'm less certain (but would bet) that Koshi is playing a good town game. However, I've rightly caught a lot of flak for being wishy washy on my voting habits; Koshi voted for four people during the day phase (Nooniansong, VA, Tubesock, Boxerfred). While unlikely, is it impossible for him to be on Tubesock, realize it won't go through, and switch to Boxerfred because the town cred for being on the correct lynch wagon vastly outweighs the benefit of having a suspiciously inactive mafia around that could eventually be tied back to you, even if it's the RB? Boxerfred in his kill post even said he realized he couldn't be active. I think smart mafia may be able to use that to their advantage in their QT thing. May i'm getting too tin-foil hatty here, or perhaps i'm sherlock holmes. This would basically confirm town Tubesock though, unless we somehow had two correct lynch wagons going on D1. Regarding VA, I just want to point this post out near the beginning of the game from Koshi. If VA is either a smart town or good mafia, it makes sense why he would target me coming out N1 with a hard read on me. I've clearly been wishy washy on votes, misread posts, and haven't really led town discussion on anything, which signals weak first game town that can easily be made into a *ding ding ding, darth checks off all the mafia bells.* I understand why his case is compelling, except I haven't "feigned ignorance" like he says I have. I fully accept that I haven't been a strong town, but I haven't relied on the newbie crutch at all imo. If you guys end up lynching me, take good look at him when I come back green. I've gone through mderg's filter and I think he is probably town at this point; I don't think it would make sense to get off the Boxerfred wagon at that point in the day if he were trying to claim town cred for a correct lynch. While his filter is shorter than most, I don't see anything incriminating him currently. With the setup confirmed A, I think Tubesock is a potential frame target, however the EoD vote was so scattered that I could see mafia team including Tubesock deciding to not frame Tubesock to green. Given how his wagon kind of collapsed near the end of the day, there seemed to be some consensus that Tubesock was acting more townie. Personally i'm not very sold on the WIFOM "lynch me!" because isn't that exactly what you would do to come off as a town, willing to die for the good of the order? Noonian - I'm not sure what I think of Noonian at this point. While it doesn't make much sense for a mafia to defend someone who is likely to be lynched in the next day or two, it could also maybe(?) establish town creds when I flip green. Noon hasn't really given any reads besides his mderg+Eden hail mary, so that gives me some scum vibes. Scott - I don't want to beat a dead horse, but Scott's number 1-7 thing is pretty questionable. His excuse that he hadn't updated it when he posted it is also kind of silly: GGTemp being the same as me at 5.5, even though he advocated hard for boxerfred, and I didn't? I don't know why, if he's been reading the thread like he says he has, you would only have a "light" town read on GGTemp. I also don't think his case against mderg has any legs to stand on, leaving him with little substance even though he's posted a fair amount. He's my #2 lynch behind Tubesock. Eden - I think he's been especially strong since EoD1, making me fairly confident he's town. His discussion of mafia teams/lynch strategy make a lot of sense if you agree that either (but not both) me or Tubesock are mafia-- and most of you do. I realize this is the dreaded wall of text, but I haven't been able to post for a while soooooo 100% town: sloosh, giygas, ggtemplar pretty town: me, mderg shrug: noonian lynch: tubesock, scott koshi is ?????? you say probably a good townie game but then spend the rest of the paragraph talking about how he's mafia... va is "smart town or good mafia" who we should look at This is pretty uninspiring for me. Obvious town reads are obvious, made only slightly spicy by somehow not town reading Koshi as strongly as some other town reads. Obvious lynches are obvious. The thing that would actually help us solve this game is sorting out the trio of darthfoley, Vayne and kush. darth gives us very little about this -- his read on Vayne seems to imply that he thinks Vayne is mafia (see "when I flip green look at this guy"), but he starts off by saying "If VA were smart town or good mafia," his behavior makes sense. So all I learn from this is that darth doesn't think VA is dumb town. Great I guess, but not really helping. It's also strange to me that darth combines a very conceding treatment of VA's arguments (stuff like "I understand I haven't been a great townie" and the like), but then still thinks we should suspect VA. If VA's arguments are reasonable enough to force a concessive "I understand I haven't been a great townie" type of reaction, then why would VA be suspicious for giving such an argument? Shocking, I know, but this seems like a mafia reaction to me. Acknowledge your opponent has a point, but still try to paint your opponent as suspicious for making it. Not liking it. And then there's just not a lot said about Noonian either way, looks like a light scumread but darth isn't initiating a lot of conversation with Noonian to sort out his read. Especially given how Noonian should be near the top of his suspects list given his reads and the game state information we have, I'm -- surprise -- suspicious of darth here too. | ||
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On January 13 2016 18:24 scott31337 wrote: Reading your filter, this stuck out to me. why | ||
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On January 13 2016 22:32 Koshi wrote: This is all very weak stuff. It doesn't convince me of anything. It are just a bunch of words without direction. What's weak about it or lacking in direction? You're free not to be convinced, but my points are definitely good and the direction (darthfoley is mafia) should be very clear to anybody reading. You're complaining about a wasted day but then wasting your time on making a post like this? | ||
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At like 4am or something I had said we needed to settle darthfoley Vayne and kush. I woke up this morning and said to myself on the way to work, "Vayne and kush haven't done anything since the red check." This is important because I tend to forget everything in a game when I go to sleep. So just randomly connecting them twice has to mean something right? I am convinced Tubesock is town. I don't know how much I care to argue it when I'm pretty sure most of the town won't pass on lynching the redcheck. But he is town. Of this I am certain. I think the "best" lynches are probably in that Vayne/kush duo. Both of them are too experienced at this game to be doing literal nothing. I am selfish and want my pet case on darthfoley to see a lynch though. Plus I don't have time before EOD to make a case worth a shit. You guys should not vote Tubesock because even though he's being derpy and making town cases on town people, he's still trying to get his views out there. I think his posts are genuine and although he got massively REKT by giygas claiming cop, his argument on giygas was pretty reasonable and seemed to come from town to me. He just isn't doing anything I expect scum to do here. You guys should vote darth because he has this weird flip flop on Tubesock d1 that doesn't make sense and his reads aren't doing anything to help us solve the game. You look past what I consider a lazy easy lynch on Tubesock and he has the weird spammy drunken replacement poster, who's still trying, as his #2 lynch, and nothing really to say about the likely mafia pool of Vayne and kush. He's probs mafia with one of them and is my pick for scum today. Don't lynch Tubesock when we got a framer, I know it's statistically "unlikely" that he's not mafia, but this game isn't poker. It's not a game of statistics, it's a game of informed reads, and Tubesock is town | ||
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Are you tellin me that because at one point I was sure there had to be mafia between Tubesock and Giygas that I am forever beholden to think that, even if I tr one of them later and the other claims cop? Because that's fucking dumb as as shit. You bitch about bad posting but what the fuck are you even doing? Not questioning Vayne or kush who are for sure the real top suspects outside of darth (and I guess Tubesock with the red check). Quit harassing me every time I check in. You are so goddamned tedious to play with. | ||
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On January 14 2016 04:07 mderg wrote: Eden, do you seriously think lynching Tubesock is a bad decision? Yeah. It's a perfectly logical, reasonable decision that's also the wrong decision to make. I fully understand what people are doing lynching him, but he just seems so town to me. | ||
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I'll take Vayne or kush even. But this Tubesock guy is working so damn hard and if he's mafia there's no point. We would just ignore literal everything he said. Like come on guys. There's a fuckin Framer in the game confirmed. Would ANY of you lynch him outside of the redcheck? Because if not the. The redcheck should mean NOTHING to you. | ||
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You want to lynch kush? Lets fucking go! | ||
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Why does he ever do this work on D2 as caught scum? The answer is NOT to confuse the town. This town is smart enough to ignore everything he says after the redcheck if he flips scum. We would know it is all WIFOM bullshit and all of his work would be a waste of his own time. The answer is NOT to save himself. Notice that he not only makes no appeals to setup, when it is known there is a framer and he could plausibly make that appeal -- no, not only does he not do that, he also actively asks town to kill him! And with the votes piling up, you would expect him not to use that tactic, since it's clearly not working. Unless you submit that he's just trolling the game or bad at mafia (which is VERY weak -- NEVER underestimate your opponent when there is a better explanation), then there is no explanation for his behavior as caught scum. The explanation on the town side is obvious. He knows he's innocent, but he's no fool. He doesn't believe he can argue his way out of a redcheck, and he knows his team can afford the ML. So, he instead focuses all his energy on productive casework that we can use after he flips green. It's a totally reasonable and savvy town move. Based on that alone I am more than comfortable town reading him, I am stumping for him and will continue to defend him until the flip or until we lynch someone else. "He got red checked" is not good enough when a framer is in the format given how much more likely than normal it is that he would be framed, REGARDLESS OF HIS ALIGNMENT! Earlier I posited that it is unlikely that the mafia would NOT frame Tubesock innocent. Who else would they frame? Who else was scum and under fire yesterday? If your only reason for lynchingthis man is the red check then you MUST reconsider! Think about it! What else has he done that's suspicious? | ||
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On January 14 2016 06:44 VayneAuthority wrote: So we don't lynch tubesock and let's say we lynch me or darthfoley or kush or w/e and they flip green, and now you by proxy look terrible scummy along with tubesock, eden. Is that really the state of the game you want? I can't imagine so if you are town, that is a terrible place to leave town in. It doesnt solve the redcheck and simultaneously spreads the lynch pool to be even more convoluted I don't give a damn how it "looks." The red check is already solved in my mind. I am town and will be more than capable of proving it all game long. Why would I care about either of these things? I want not to lynch Tubesock today. Tubesock is going to flip town. I am sure of it. If not lynching him, and lynching one of my suspects, is what happens instead, I will be more than happy with that game state, even if the actual lynch is incorrect. I don't get the point of this post Vayne. Why would I care how anything looks? I would lynch a suspect and save one of my top town reads from being lynched. That's what matters. | ||
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slOosh: Why are you voting for darthfoley? Would you be comfortable voting for another person out of the darth/kush/Vayne pool? | ||
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On January 14 2016 07:15 mderg wrote: I honestly don't think your town case on him is more convincing than the red check. It basically comes down to him being active and giving reads. Why would he do that as a caught scum? It's a gigantic waste of his time if he's scum. It's clearly not self-preservation because he keeps telling us to kill him. Are you telling me you're unconvinced that someone who is active and giving involved reads is town? And that that's a bad town case? And that with a known framer in the format, a red check is enough to convince you? Why do you think the mafia didn't frame Tubesock innocent? | ||
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On January 14 2016 07:11 Koshi wrote: switch to kush ffs | ||
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rips one lucky topdeck day 1 and thinks he's the king. christ, man. where are your reads even at if Tubesock flips town? | ||
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On January 14 2016 07:25 GiygaS wrote: Because I red checked him after being suspicious of him for a large portion of the game already, and I doubt that farmer targetted him. I honestly haven't done enough work to be comfortable with any other lynch today. Why do you doubt the framer targeted him, and why do you think the mafia wouldn't frame him innocent last night? And does him tryharding all over the thread today with cases on everybody not change your view? And trust me, I sympathize with being behind and having trouble finding a good non-Tubesock lynch. I've got a pool of 3 and I'm not super confident in any of them, but I am confident Tubesock is town and all three of them are much more likely to flip scum than he is. | ||
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On January 14 2016 07:26 GiygaS wrote: There are two mafia, there's probably that he's goon and framer framed himself. If that's so then the framer must have been more suspicious than Tubesock. (after all you assume otherwise that the mafia framed the guy less likely to be copchecked -- not a reasonable assumption) Who would that be? Who was more suspicious than Tubesock last night? | ||
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Why can't you explain why scum would do what he's doing? Is it that hard? Maybe there's a reason it's so difficult to figure out why scum would do this? Like him not being scum?? How were his cases on Giygas or ray scummy? You're basically just saying that his D1 was a wash by saying "it's not the scummiest thing but it's not insanely towny." So it's not obviously town or obviously scum. Insightful. And sure, there's a "good chance" he wasn't framed, I guess. Whatever that even means. It's so inexact that I'm not sure there's an actual idea being conveyed behind it, but there's a "good chance" I guess. And who are those few others, then? If they were more sensible cop checks and you think the mafia framed them instead why aren't you trying to lynch them? | ||
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On January 14 2016 07:34 VayneAuthority wrote: I am trying to gauge what you are doing, the obscene odds on a framer/cop hitting the same person are quite low. My true intention was to see whether you are trying to pull some sort of powerplay as mafia when tubesock flips town, using "I told you so" methods, because that is all I am really getting out of you atm. I am trying to save my town read and lynch someone I actually suspect. Really not sure why you announced pre-flip what you suspect I would do as mafia post-flip if I'm right, but I'm not the type of person to lord stupid shit over people. I'll probably bitch a bit at all of you for not seeing what seems obvious to me and I'll very likely go grumble in a corner and declare that I'm not going to do anything until day 3, and then get bored of being mad and come back and reread the thread and do stuff. | ||
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Either way, expect much corner grumbling. | ||
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On January 14 2016 08:03 VayneAuthority wrote: and with that flip I now agree with koshi that eden is incredibly suspicous Lol how does that make sense | ||
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On January 14 2016 08:08 Koshi wrote: Vayne -Master of Pushing Mafia Agenda- Authority Maybe we lynch Kush tomorrow. I think I can go for that. One of these days you'll listen to me right away buddy. I got faith in you. Mafia was largely unsuspected n1. Explains ray dying and explains framing vt. Kush definite mafia IMO. Darthfoley fits that profile too y'know... I wonder if anyone else does. Scottkmatt probs. but that's just a crapshoot lynch right now. (Then again so was boxerfred) | ||
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On January 14 2016 10:19 darthfoley wrote: Yes, I think it's clear mafia was probably unsuspected N1 given Tubesock's green flip. Let's look at the D1 VCA: Did not receive votes: Rayn (dead VT), darthfoley, mderg, GGTemplar, Eden, Kmatt Seems like you fit the profile too... I had two people scum read me iirc: mderg and GGTemplar. That's more suspicion than you had D1, right? I don't even think you can really include those who only got 1 vote in the "suspicious enough to not risk framing a townie N1" pile, because VA, Koshi and slOosh weren't in danger at all late in D1. Even the noonian 2 vote wagon wasn't considered that serious at the time. The voting was all over the place, so while your read is right, it's pretty obvious and doesn't provide much insight whatsoever. Cop could've checked basically anyone given how spread out the voting was. all fair and valid | ||
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I'm pretty sure we just got to lynch Vayne kush darth and Scott and we win. Wish ANY of these guys would be proactive during the night. Darth at least said SOMETHING so props there. | ||
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On January 15 2016 05:20 Koshi wrote: We won't die. 2 confirmed towns in game. I would go Kush into VA into Darth. 1) my dude! 2) what were you doing day 2....... | ||
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On January 15 2016 06:40 nooniansoong wrote: yo i got a game in lylo and not a lot of time on my hands. plus this game sucks. hard. well, if you don't mind, i'd be happy to free up your time to focus on other things | ||
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Sorry for giving you such a hard time in your first forum game bro. (Unless you are mafia. Then get bent, you deserved it, etc etc but also sorry you rolled scum in your first game.) I for sure can't justify lynching him over the do-nothings next to him in the lynch pile. Friggin scott and kush and VA need to do something proactive. darthfoley too to a lesser extent, just to put away any (read: my) lingering doubts. But for gods sake you guys are the lynches, do something please. | ||
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On January 15 2016 08:24 nooniansoong wrote: i cant believe scum didn't nk me for my sick reads fucking do something jesus | ||
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On January 15 2016 08:37 nooniansoong wrote: i will but first tell me why you named yourself after that random ass book | ||
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On January 15 2016 10:27 nooniansoong wrote: So you didn't name yourself after the book The New Eden by Charles John Cutcliffe Wright Hyne written in 1892? ##vote kush ##end | ||
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On January 15 2016 11:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote: mberg can be cleared through logic though I think if/when Darth flips scum If Darth flips town a lot of things make sense for a noon/mberg team where noon is nilla and mberg is framer. What is this associative read you have between mderg and darthfoley? | ||
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On January 15 2016 11:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Also Giygas, I wouldn't even out the cop check it's useless. It can't count for a whole lot -- the mafia deciding to leave our un-cc'd cop alive certainly would indicate that they aren't afraid of the cop scan. I'm a fan of not outing the cop check unless there's a counterclaim. Vetting role claims is basically all that the check does at this point. God forbid that Giygas scanned kush town and I have to spend all day fruitlessly arguing AGAIN that the check was the result of a frame... | ||
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Tldr Vayne is too inactive to be mafia, people who are this disconnected from the game are basically always townies who just don't find scum hunting fun. Mafia at least make a token effort to look involved, Vayne just could not give a fuck. Darth is town because he's been very interactive -- contrast kush, Scott who basically only post reads but don't question their suspects or try to convince people of anything. Darth was forced to interact to a degree but has been proactive enough with it to earn a town read from me Would lynch kush Scott mderg right now. Pretty sure we do that and we win. | ||
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Scum team is kush and Scott. Other people can case kush I'm just going to sheep ray and my gut. Kush doing some off/on pushing of mderg that I expect bad scum to do to their teammates. Has literal one mention of Scott all game and it's when everyone bitched about Scott's entry reads being null, and it's not adding to that convo to boot. Scott also has like zero contribution or interaction to/with the thread after his decent looking entry post. Lots of unintentional hiding behind drunk posts and no good posts to make up for it, some reads thrown out with little substance and zero associated questioning. The dropoff after his entry post is super damning to me because I've replaced in as scum and done literal the exact same thing before, dropped off too. It's done bc you get free town cred and look very good, but then you can't keep it up once you have perfect info so you get lazy. That his post was "partially" updated with VCA also makes me think he edited parts of it to give himself a narrative once he saw his role. (See mderg stuff) Also I narrowed it down to those 2 and mderg, and mderg makes 0 sense as either partner. It's kush and Scott, count on it. I am feeling the same peace of mind I felt when I figured out my stance on Tubesock -- everything is clear at last. | ||
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I do not believe kush is bad scum. I think his lack of interaction with Scott is just a slip in focus because he's distracted with his other game. It's a mistake by absence of attention, which is the mistake competent players make. When he is here he pushes mderg off/on. He does this when he gives the thread his attention. This mistake (if he were scum with mderg) is not the type of Mistake he would make Thus Scott fits better as his partner | ||
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They really have not interacted with each other at all this game. Fucking free roll scum team is the best. I almost worry if it can be this easy. But when you got two people at the top of the POE pile who mentioned each other in two posts apiece the whole game and didn't actually talk TO each other... They gotta be it. All in baby. Let's lynch these jokers my sons End this clownshow | ||
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On January 15 2016 23:22 VayneAuthority wrote: Well rayn was highly suspicious of kush before he died so it is possibly that simple. I don't know if a scott/darth scumteam makes that NK after rayn was wrong on the lynch and other people looked way more unlynchable. Kush fits the bill for being the experienced player that would make that kill. I am still suspicious of Eden though, he had an eerie TMI vibe from that tubesock lynch that is really annoying me. Sorry I don't completely suck at mafia Just mostly suck | ||
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Birthday Do you mind just confessing it'd really expedite things | ||
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On January 16 2016 05:53 GiygaS wrote: I seriously believe noon is purposefully trying to be lynch bait so he can get out of this game. Happy to oblige | ||
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On January 16 2016 08:23 nooniansoong wrote: um i want a response to this. how can you be that old? or did you just leave out the month and put year and day... you nailed it buddy, the day/month/year was too clunky so i reduced to 4 digits | ||
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I had fun. | ||
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On January 17 2016 11:09 VayneAuthority wrote: gut says eden but people saying he is locked in town/town meta game flow says darth so i guess darth. rofl apparently I pushed my partner over a redchecked townie all of day 2 and pushed him all of day 3 | ||
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Because his position is 100% just unconscious salt | ||
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On January 17 2016 10:38 Koshi wrote: So mderg went from boxerfred to Kush D1. Hmm. Probably not mafia. Even though Kush his filter kinda incriminate him. From reading Kush filter it is: Scott mderg VA and darthfoley is town. Educate me on how kush's statements incriminate mderg. I don't really see it. Or rather, I think I see the argument you would use to say this, but I'm not sure it isn't wifom-y. I think mderg's vote switch makes 0 sense from mafia standpoint. The only value added to killing kush over boxerfred is that you get to save the better role, but boxerfred was pretty MIA and not likely to survive very long anyway. kush could at least try to defend himself maybe (even though he chose not to do so here, I'm sure he could have done it if he chose to do it). Also, help me feel better about darthfoley being town, I'm settled in on it but would like somebody to knock it out of the park for me so I don't have this nagging feeling about it anymore. | ||
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On January 18 2016 01:06 Koshi wrote: How is it your birthday Eden? 1/8/1992 is not today? I also take it your birthday was the 8th of January then? Damn Americans. Anyway. Happy late Birthday? 1-18-92, the extra 1 is clunky so I cut it. Site is in East Asia time so it's early by way of being late, or however that works. And thank you!! Synch clott | ||
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On January 18 2016 01:02 Koshi wrote: darthfoley being town... I don't know. I just think kush wouldn't hard defend his partner so hard + attack VA for making a case on darthfoley. That is a bold move in a game in whuch he didn't play bold at all. Ok I really like this analysis. Especially the bold type has me sold. Kush's play makes the most sense to me if he just has an absentee team and is making sure not to commit himself too hard in a specific direction (since any direction that reads "not me!" is ok for him). That and his and Scott's 100% lack of interaction makes it too clear. | ||
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On January 18 2016 09:34 Koshi wrote: It's Scott or VA for me. Mderg gets a free pass today because he voted mafia(s) D1 in an odd way. Kush had a bit of a boner for VA this game. 4-5 comments or cases just for VA. bout it | ||
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On January 18 2016 09:36 Koshi wrote: Why is VA not considering scott at all? It seems really out of place. I also have this stupid idea that mafia thought scott was medic and sloosh was fakeclaiming or something. not bout it | ||
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On January 19 2016 01:05 VayneAuthority wrote: I would say he has 33% chance of being mafia, unlikely but maybe it's just that easy. There is nothing I can say is town or scum about him. Just a nonentity. Comparatively I think darth is 50/50 What pushes darth into actively-mafia territory for you then? (Or basically so, if 33% is true neutral and darth is 50%) | ||
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On January 19 2016 05:11 Koshi wrote: So is nobody able to find something in noonian or boxerfred their filters that could help us solve the game? If it's Scott, the total absence of everything is proof. Boxerfred would honestly have nothin to say about kmatt and noon didn't say anything after Scott joined which is pretty damning to me. I'm kinda waiting for the Scott flip / for Scott to do something tbh. | ||
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On January 19 2016 07:01 mderg wrote: noon's filter tells me it's one of eden/scott/darth I don't think it's eden, so most likely scott or darth. scott would really fit into the flow of the game, so I'm sticking with him for now. explain like any of this | ||
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On January 19 2016 07:50 mderg wrote: You come to mind because of this: When scum give names like that I feel like there's often a buddy in them. There's also not much interaction between you two in this game. You appear to want to solve the game, though. So I don't think you're scum. Scumteam Eden mderg On January 13 2016 04:15 nooniansoong wrote: scumteam is between eden/scott/vayne/mderg On January 19 2016 07:50 mderg wrote:darth because of this: Mostly because he writes "Defense of darthfoley" which does not sound natural at all. I think he defended darth for quite some time. You think he did. Well... did he? And why does that matter? You can go look at the very beginning of kush's filter and see him address like five straight townies and then start defending giygas too. Giygas flipped cop. On January 19 2016 07:50 mderg wrote: I think there's been enough said about scott. He would fit in perfectly into the theme that scum had absolutely no control of any lynch whatsoever this game. That's why I'm going with him. Let's have fun and assume I had a greencheck on scott and just revealed it right now. What do you do then? | ||
Eden1892
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On January 19 2016 07:29 scott31337 wrote: I better vote at least. Lynch mderg after I flip town, someone do vca, you really think it was scum vs scum on the last day? ._. Why don't you do VCA? Be like Tubesock, you don't even have a redcheck against you. If you convince me then I'll stump for you and we'll lynch somebody else. Right now you're being like noon, which is ok I guess if you're mafia, but pretty clearly incorrect for you regardless of alignment. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 19 2016 08:03 mderg wrote: Eden, why the ninja vote? Try to stay focused for me, please. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 19 2016 08:28 Koshi wrote: I actually liked everything mderg said. At least he is fucking doing something. It felt really phoned in, and the copied phrasing from Vayne set off alarm bells. I'd like him to explain a little better. I somehow start to think it isn't scott either although it's hard to know whether that sentiment is just me being tired of the inertia or not. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 19 2016 09:13 Koshi wrote: I had Kush right from start. But then decided to hard defend him. thats me too if darth is mafia lol idk i still kinda want to see scott flip first i might sheep you sheeping me to victory though | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
But it's the most interesting thing there... gotta work with what ya got... so why? | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Scott is town. It's 100% WIFOM when he says that he would have conceded during the night while everyone was saying he was the next day's lynch, but I completely believe it anyway. His posting has been very schizophrenic this game to me -- spurts of activity out of nowhere, lots of half-completed analysis and questions without follow-up, then dropping off for a while and not doing anything -- and on the surface it looks like a mafia that's making a token effort to be involved but not really invested in the game. I'd think in that scenario he would concede during N3. IDK if Scott is the type of player that would make the town prove they have the win locked up or not, but his play this game doesn't speak to the kind of work ethic that typically accompanies that mentality from scum. So the fact that we're even here makes me think he's most likely town. Could be he just decided he wasn't going to phone it in -- the argument is 100% WIFOM but I'm making it anyway cuz sometimes you just get that read and ya gotta go for it. I reread mderg's filter and his interaction with kush (and kush's push on him) is also a bit too sincere to believe that it came from kush's partner. Like I'm trying to imagine those two planning it out in the QT and it doesn't flow right with how they're talking to each other. I'm bad at articulating this point, but just go read their brief interaction there during n1(?) when kush says mderg looks kinda scummy and you'll (hopefully) see it. It's too natural to be set up beforehand, but kush does it so abruptly (in respect to the thread direction) that it doesn't look like something you just spontaneously do as mafia, either. The only way I see it happening is if kush just up and decided to case his partner without saying anything, which I guess I could see kush doing, but I just don't. On January 15 2016 11:16 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Screwit if you guys want to lynch noon let's lynch noon I feel like I've been defending him all game and I don't even remember why GGTemplar, why did you make this post and lynch noon? | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 19 2016 19:22 mderg wrote: Well, he provided a scenario where he has a greencheck on scott and reveals it now. It simply doesn't make any sense. In that potential scenario the whole game would have been different. You can't be this dumb. Fine, the mod announces Scott is town. Whatever. Stop being an obtuse moron and tell me what your reads are then, because you haven't said anything of note for 2 days except that Scott is scum, and if that's not the case I start to think you're the last mafia | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
D2: pushed scum kush and argued hard against town mislynch D3: pushed scum kush D4: sucked but still ended up on foley before he confessed | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 20 2016 06:31 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also, Eden, I felt like you had darth by the balls at the start when you interrogated him, then for some reason you ended up townreading him. I'm not sure what happened there since I felt like you were on him for the right reasons and he didn't really have an answer. That said, definitely well played Darth. You put in a lot more effort than most would in their first scumgame, especially with a team that didn't perform very well. Sometimes RNG is a bitch. (also let this be a lesson to all: 100% RNG, all the time. Host WIFOM will not work.) + Show Spoiler + not that it happened this game, but just to drive it home >> I dunno man. Didn't have the clarity I needed -- it's clear I was onto something, but it wasn't coming together right for me to see it. It's starting to come back though. I feel a lot more focused than I used to be in my play. Hopefully no more chasing my own tail forever and bumbling into being town read. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 20 2016 06:39 Koshi wrote: ggs bros. Town did very well this game. We really did good. ALSO: you my nigga Koshi sorry I got mad at you d2. You got my head back in the game | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Certainly I don't think we did poorly or anything. I am just thankful we collectively were able to do our jobs, and be rewarded with a strong victory. But no one's play particularly impressed me save ray, who appropriately got n1'd. Rather, it was a workmanlike victory: everyone did their jobs, played their assigned roles competently, and fortune made a reasonable performance into a strong victory. I am happy that we managed to keep the thread mostly civil and free of ego (and apologize for any part I played in undermining that). One of the criminally undervalued components of a "good town atmosphere" is creating an environment where players are above all motivated to find mafia, which includes keeping personal shit to a minimum (so as to make the players focus on scumhunting instead of their own egos). Lots of towns in TL Mafia struggle with this, and I am proud to say that my teammates made this a total non-issue. I think this played a very big role in the lack of mislynches in this game. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 20 2016 07:20 Koshi wrote: Goddamn. I am trying to find a MVP but it is just the entity of town in general. maybe GGtemplar was the best filter in the least amount of posts. I am not sure about MVP (as you could argue he wasn't a very integral component of our victory at all), but ray was definitely the best townie this game to me. Agree with mderg that there wasn't a clear MVP. This was a very blue collar game, lots of people just doing their jobs and the team being rewarded for it with a win. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
>Communist | ||
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