EPTNewbie Student Mafia XVIII - Page 23
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Irishbound
42 Posts
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mderg
Germany1740 Posts
On December 30 2015 10:44 NocturneMage wrote: mderg, I looked at Kush/GB filters, Kush could be argued to soft push him and GB doesn't mention him at all, but if you are arguing they are both scum for that, seeing as you have independent (???) reasons to scumread them both, I'd rather see a flip or a stronger case against one of them before using the association argument. At the very least it's odd how up to this point they've had barely any interaction with each other. The soft push is basically nothing and doesn't have any follow up. They both see Kmatt as scummy but there is only this: On December 30 2015 09:04 nooniansoong wrote: gb get in here and you better have something more to add that I missed! That's a post that might as well come from a scum QT. So basically they only mention each other but don't actually have any kind of conversation. Considering that they've played quite a few games with each other that's definitely noteworthy and makes me believe that at least one of them is scum. | ||
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mderg
Germany1740 Posts
On December 30 2015 10:54 NocturneMage wrote: I'm looking at GB's reaction test on KMatt or his read on KMatt. My only issue with this reaction test is, looking at his filter, and his conversation with Shapelog is trying to see if his stance based on the reaction test would change his reads (or further solidify his reads) on Shapelog or KMatt. KMatt has responded since then and what bothers me further with GlowingBear is that I would expect him to also at least engage KMatt. Could KMatt be scum (there's a post I'll draw attention to, it was the one where he drops the GB scumread, it could be scum backing down or dropping a read or it could be a townie new to the game lacking confidence) - sure. But you would think the townie thing to do particularly of a veteran player would be to engage or further engage him. Wishy washy filter? okay. Vote placed? Okay. Reaction test and explanation? Okay. What are you doing with either the reaction test OR the scumread? Nothing. ??????????????????? I can get behind this, there should come more from GB regarding Kmatt. So far it's an "easy" scumread with little follow up. | ||
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mderg
Germany1740 Posts
On December 30 2015 12:07 TheCow wrote: This post is being written as of post 415. @Kmatt Before we proceed, I'd like to ask you three quick questions just to get a better understanding of you as a player. 1) How much experience do you have with the game Mafia? 2) How do you feel about this game in its current state? 3) In one sentence, describe yourself as a person. (not a question, but close enough ._.) @Irish 1) I did not and do not want to narrow my own and the threads field of vision by simply bandwagoning the leading wagon. Aside from that, Scott's activity level would waste the pressure of a vote -- much unlike Kmatt who is here now. 2) You, Irish, I had as topscum for a little while when I was catching up. Between that time and me catching up, you managed to redeem yourself in my eyes and became a void read. GB, I am conflicted because though they have been somewhat anti-town, they have not been overtly scummy -- or enough for a vote, at least. 3) Onegu looks like a player who is mislynch bait and without meta-experience, I do not feel comfortable making a definitive read without more evidence. For Fidelis, here is a quote from my notes: + Show Spoiler + [Fidea] seems to be the type of player I will scumread into oblivion regardless of their actual alignment. I have always had issues reading players like Fidea -- just their style and attitude doesn't mesh well with me. Not that much to go from but it makes me lean town on TheCow. | ||
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mderg
Germany1740 Posts
On December 30 2015 14:21 scott31337 wrote: So I have CPR and first aid training tomorrow morning so I have to get up early - I should be back on before EoD. The thing that gets me is - why would noon have a town read on me and go against thread sentiment if he was mafia? What's the motivation - so he moves up for me. Giygas's filter looks the worse - there's some SC stuff and nothing else - so I'm going to vote for him for now. Going against thread sentiment is common for mafia. I did that a lot when I was mafia in the past. If mafia simply goes along with the thread sentiment, some people are definitely going to notice and call them out for not bringing anything up on their own. Definitely a weak defense of noon. | ||
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Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
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nooniansoong
1538 Posts
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Shapelog
United States5184 Posts
Im about to go to the ER due to a number of stuff regarding health. I have no clue when i be back, So im going to make a post and vote and do crap. Leave it to me with my luck to have the health problems during a game of mafia. So, As i see it, we have a number of lynchs going. Scott GB Noon Onegu? Kmatt GiygaS Khan Personally i think the random defensive posture from Noon over GB and the weird post asking people to jump in was fisky. Not to mention it seemed like he was trying to find a reason to Town read GB like heck. I am not sure about the cow as i feel he could be included in the post to difer attention (that whole section of the thread was defecting as it feels like) Based off of that, my vote is Noon. ##Vote:Nooniansoong The fact GB isn't reading the thread could come from stress from other game. But he should of at least by now post a follow up. Sus to say the lest. No to meation after (and don't quote me) Noon last post their was 15 or so mins till GB posted. So the waiting to see thing GB was talking about doesn't make since, if i am remembering correctly Scott is well, idk, funny. On December 30 2015 14:21 scott31337 wrote: So I have CPR and first aid training tomorrow morning so I have to get up early - I should be back on before EoD. The thing that gets me is - why would noon have a town read on me and go against thread sentiment if he was mafia? What's the motivation - so he moves up for me. Giygas's filter looks the worse - there's some SC stuff and nothing else - so I'm going to vote for him for now. Pssst, your filter is 1 question, 4 sentences from 1 post that generally has nothing in them, and your going to complain about some else filter which is about the same as yours? This seems like your defecting everything onto GiygaS. GiygaS khan, i dont have a read on him, period. Sooooooo, yeah. I mean i can't aruge the points made against him, nor should I. He should fight his battles. I feel like his case is less than scott, since he at least made a question, followed up, and posted a read. Eh, he still could be lynch. Kmatt, I dont see him as the lynch today. Wishy washy, want evidence, non committal, are all what i did D1 on nutcracker and i was town. Idk, i just don't think out of everyone listed, he is the best choice. Everyone else mostly has a reason like deflecting, doing this, etc. for a lynch. He just has tone basically im guessing for his lynch? I will say that onegu is our/yours since im not going to be here, last resort lynch if he doesn't do anything. Plynch him only if u can't agree on someone. Im trying to post this so i can go to ER but i just Remember that Noon had the same, 1st reason, to scum kmatt as GB did. btw Now to go to the ER at 7:44 am >_> | ||
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Shapelog
United States5184 Posts
Blah got to go fast. Also Scott jumped on the GiygaS Train after cow, after GB and Irish. Eh prob. NAI but it is worth noting who started this On December 30 2015 03:07 GlowingBear wrote: I dislike this post. Trying to fit in is exactly what Mafia struggles with in the beginning of the gam me. Plus, if you agree with me about the opening, it doesn't make sense to be suspicious of me. Answer me this: what is the Mafia motivation behind calling someone town from his opening? I still like GB town read on me based off of what i do in free time, especially when i said i couldn't ladder if i wanted to. Dumb game, keeps pulling me in when im about to go. | ||
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Shapelog
United States5184 Posts
I Still Dont like GB..... | ||
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Irishbound
42 Posts
I won't be around for deadline as well, I'm not in the same country as the rest of you and I'll be on my way to work when it hits, heading to bed in about a hour, will check this before then but likely leaving my vote on Scott, really would like if people could reread him as well as my qualms with him and join me on him. Do agree with Snape that Scotts Giygas vote is even worse considering he's done the same thing he's voting Giyga for and the fact that it looks like trying to just jump on others scum leans on Giyga. | ||
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nooniansoong
1538 Posts
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Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On December 30 2015 10:26 NocturneMage wrote: Can you explain this post when you can? You are saying that you agreed with the read on GigyaS, and thus you scumread him (????) but then you are making a like to like comparison to Shapelog who you are townreading? Can you explain if this affects your townread on Shapelog or whether it should because I don't otherwise understand what you are getting at here? At the time, I thought that both Shape and Gigya were guilty of a serious lack of content. The difference, in my mind, was that Shape appeared to be loitering in the thread looking for activity, whereas Gigya ninja'ed in and out. However, on the premise that mderg adopted (ie just a lack of substance), there wasn't too much between Shape and Gigya. I actually really liked mderg's response to my prodding - he sort of admitted that his post wasn't as full as it could have been. | ||
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disformation
Germany8352 Posts
Vote Count - Day 1 scott31337 (2): Irishbound, NocturneMage GiygaS (2): Kmatt, scott31337 Onegu (1): nooniansoong Kmatt (1): TheCow nooniansoong (1): Shapelog Not Voting (5): GiygaS, Fidei86, mderg, GlowingBear, Onegu At this time, scott31337 is slated to be lynched. Day 1 ends in on Wednesday, Dec 30 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00). The voting thread is here. Only votes there will be counted. | ||
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mderg
Germany1740 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On December 29 2015 10:47 scott31337 wrote: GB throwing out townreads like it's drunken Monday - hmmm... Okay, I'm extremely doubtful a newb mafia makes the post above with the information available. Maybe GB was right  You get a townlean for this Irish. I could possibly jump on this - but it's a big bag of joke/null for now... This Kmatt guy kind of does what I do - quote into notepad, post thoughts - I like this so far as well. I'll work on page 11 after the American Football game (or maybe halftime) In the first one he mentions GB's strange townread on Irish which isn't bad in itself. But the fact that I had done just that before and that he doesn't provide any follow up at all makes him look bad in my eyes. Then he townreads Irish and Kmatt with only vague reasoning, nothing worth mentioning. Also the strange "I could possibly jump on this". I have no idea where to put this. + Show Spoiler + On December 30 2015 14:21 scott31337 wrote: So I have CPR and first aid training tomorrow morning so I have to get up early - I should be back on before EoD. The thing that gets me is - why would noon have a town read on me and go against thread sentiment if he was mafia? What's the motivation - so he moves up for me. Giygas's filter looks the worse - there's some SC stuff and nothing else - so I'm going to vote for him for now. In the second post he provides a weak defense of noon. I don't like it regardless of noon's alignment. Then he votes Giygas. I don't think this one is particularly scummy, it's just a vote based on the lack of actual content from Giygas. His own lack of content is not something that should be taken into account for this vote. I'd say he's pretty scummy and I'm gonna vote him for now because I'm not sure I can be back before the deadline and he looks like a good place to safely park my vote. ##vote scott | ||
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Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
Town Irishbound - I liked that from the outset he considered a wide range of players (see #408). Although I am null-y on Scott, it is hard to fault Irish's reasoning. Moreover, the fact that he has been on Scott for his posts, rather than some of the other low activity players (eg Onegu, Gigya) suggests that he's scum-hunting rather than looking for an easy out. Finally, I thought that his read on me was honest and the fact that he asked Alex for guidance (at #416) felt like a genuine cry for help. Shapelog - I really, really don't like Shape's approach to posting. Spam posting like he does is a pretty effective mafia tactic to confuse the thread and dissuade people from reading their filter. HOWEVER, I note that he had more than a page of filter in pre-game. Moreover, his posting has struck me more as someone who wants to play the game and is impatient with everyone else (see eg #232). That, to me, is something that a relatively new player would find difficult to replicate as mafia. I also liked him criticising GB for giving him a town read at #302 - as mafia it's much easier just to take the read and pocket it rather than challenge it. Finally, his list post at #448 covered all the bases for a town list post for me. The Cow - I am a sucker for people who post infrequently but give detailed reads and thoughts. His read on me seemed very genuine and is actually something I agree with, in that I struggle to condense my thoughts down as far as I would like, and I tend to focus on ephemera (tone, overall posting strategy) rather than digging down into the weeds of detail. I like that he comes in with strong reads on Scott and Kmatt, then follows them up with helpful questions. I think most people (myself included) have been giving Irish a free-pass so far, so it's very useful to have someone sense-checking that as well. Null Mderg - I like his pressuring on Noon/Kush as well regarding D1. Someone said in the thread earlier that they lynch scum 60% of games D1. I don't think it's that high for me, but mderg is right that a successful d1 lynch for town reaaaaally fucks scum. He has a couple of short posts that give interesting insight (eg #376), but generally he seems pretty focussed on pushing his kush / GB association without looking wider than that. Alex/NM - Alex pointed out in an earlier post that my read on Scott was based on playing with him only as town. Fair enough. My reads on Alex are coloured by the same thing - we've been town together twice. He is doing his usual prodding / poking and asking lots of questions. One concern I have is that I see the progression for his Scott read, and his GB read seems to be foreshadowed at #391, but I'm not sure he really has given any particular read on Kush/Noon to date? I agree with the read, but I'm not sure how he got there. GB - I have played with GB a fair few times before, but he plays differently every time and I usually rely on others to give a good read on him. Here, he has really given out town reads with very little supporting evidence (he 'liked' Alex's opening at (#195), when that was a JOKE OPENING!), and then placed a vote on Kmatt without explanation (#333). As an experienced player, this sort of high-read / low-analysis approach would be easily explained as either lazy/distracted town or mafia. Someone said that GB is in another game at the moment, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now. There are definitely better lynches today. Kmatt - The big red flag for me here is what others have already pointed out - he seems very reluctant to give reads. That is understandable for a new player in his first game (#383). He does make an interesting point on GB that I kinda agree with (#197 - GB trying to buddy up to the thread). I think there are a lot of better lynches than Kmatt, but he's definitely someone to look back at if he doesn't start firming things up through D2. Scott - This is ugh. I think I'm actually better qualified than most people to read Scott, given that we've played three games together and I have given him a lot of attention in each. Yes, he and I have been town in each. HOWEVER, as I said before he has a number of different playstyles that seem to accord to how busy he is. And this is probably a mean thing to say, but I don't think he switches it up to keep his meta clean and I'm not sure he could. All that said, his content is totally garbage. He has had garbage content before as town. His read on Noon ("why would he TR me going against thread sentiment") is utterly idiotic, mostly because at that point there wasn't much thread sentiment against Scott AND because Noon's read was obviously weak. I don't want to jump straight onto Scott today because I think there are better lynches, and because (unlike others) he is very capable of coming back into the thread and being useful. Scum Gigya - He has a filter almost totally devoid of reads. His one TR is Irish (#214) but at the same time in his post at #192 he actually says that as Irish is experienced, the post could have been faked. ???. He also suspects GB for his "matter of fact town read", even though he agrees with it? The only thing keeping this from moving into policy is that he has a couple of posts where he talks about non-game stuff (#225, #228). If you have time to do that, you have time to play as well. This is how newbie mafia play, imo. Noon/Kush - This whole filter makes me want to facepalm. He TRs Scott for saying he could "possibly jump" on someone else's read. WTF? I just don't understand this read at all - mafia are the ones who are going to hedge and give weak reads, not town. He then goes into a day-long "woe is me, D1 is so hard" stupor, which is (a) totally destructive to town, and (b) effective at hiding his thoughts on the game. Having said that, he then seems to basically mindlessly sheep GB onto his read onto Kmatt. I also don't follow his point about NM and KMatt whiteknighting, since a bunch of other people also came into the thread to say that timestamp analysis wasn't helpful. He then also prods a bunch of people into giving reads, despite the fact that he himself has given almost no content. Policy Onegu - Please all think of a world where we get to LYLO or LYLO-1 and Onegu still hasn't said anything, still hasn't been modkilled and still hasn't been lynched. He does this EVERY GAME HE PLAYS. And it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for town to win if it gets that far, because he is a total coin-flip and the easiest ML in the world. His content is totally absent. I'm going to vote Gigya for now, but I'd consolidate onto Onegu or Kush if necessary later. ##Vote -- Gigya | ||
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Kmatt
United States1019 Posts
However I am going to assert that GB is the more dangerous target. Sure, Scott was acting "scummy" by not really participating, but he hasn't really derailed the thread or caused trouble (yet). GB on the other hand is an active poster who has been calling quite a few scumreads (myself included) with virtually no justification, as well as some very empty townreads. The fishy interactions with Noon are enough to seal the deal for me. More importantly, if we were to lynch Scott, we would learn almost nothing. Even if he came up scum, his posts have been so hollow that we wouldn't have a solid lead to go from there. Unless GB can clean up his act in time, there's a lot more to be gained out of him. ##unvote GiygaS ##vote GlowingBear | ||
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Kmatt
United States1019 Posts
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Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On December 30 2015 23:30 Kmatt wrote: Pretty much the same sentiment as above for me. I leave for work in 30 mins and don't get out until 5pm Burger-time (vote o'clock). However I am going to assert that GB is the more dangerous target. Sure, Scott was acting "scummy" by not really participating, but he hasn't really derailed the thread or caused trouble (yet). GB on the other hand is an active poster who has been calling quite a few scumreads (myself included) with virtually no justification, as well as some very empty townreads. The fishy interactions with Noon are enough to seal the deal for me. More importantly, if we were to lynch Scott, we would learn almost nothing. Even if he came up scum, his posts have been so hollow that we wouldn't have a solid lead to go from there. Unless GB can clean up his act in time, there's a lot more to be gained out of him. ##unvote GiygaS ##vote GlowingBear ... Okay, I'll bite. My view is that lynching people for 'information' on D1 is basically the worst thing we can do. Without any flips -- and particularly without any scum flips -- associative reads are pretty much worthless. We should either lynch scum, or Onegu as a plynch. But since you're here I'll ask - what about the GB/kush interaction don't you like? I think it's extremely fishy that Kush says "I don't know how to play D1 I have no reads woe is me" and then immediately jumps onto GB's vote on you, but I don't really see how that reflects badly on GB? | ||
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Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On December 30 2015 07:39 GlowingBear wrote: Ok fully caught up I'm voting Kmatt because reasons ##Vote: Kmatt @GB as far as I can see, you never posted this into the voting thread. Just in case you'd forgotten. | ||
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