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This post is being written as of post 415.
@Kmatt
Before we proceed, I'd like to ask you three quick questions just to get a better understanding of you as a player.
1) How much experience do you have with the game Mafia?
2) How do you feel about this game in its current state?
3) In one sentence, describe yourself as a person. (not a question, but close enough ._.)
@Irish
On December 30 2015 11:25 Irishbound wrote:
@TheCow - I'll need you to explain a few things for me; 1) Given that you're aware your secondary scum read has two votes on them and your initial one has none why didn't you vote Scott and ensure that a scum read of yours has a higher chance of getting lynched? 2) Can you explain your conflicted reads on myself and GB in some detail for me and 3) What makes you not trust your ability to read Fidelis and Onegu?
1) I did not and do not want to narrow my own and the threads field of vision by simply bandwagoning the leading wagon. Aside from that, Scott's activity level would waste the pressure of a vote -- much unlike Kmatt who is here now.
2) You, Irish, I had as topscum for a little while when I was catching up. Between that time and me catching up, you managed to redeem yourself in my eyes and became a void read. GB, I am conflicted because though they have been somewhat anti-town, they have not been overtly scummy -- or enough for a vote, at least.
3) Onegu looks like a player who is mislynch bait and without meta-experience, I do not feel comfortable making a definitive read without more evidence. For Fidelis, here is a quote from my notes:
+ Show Spoiler +[Fidea] seems to be the type of player I will scumread into oblivion regardless of their actual alignment.
I have always had issues reading players like Fidea -- just their style and attitude doesn't mesh well with me.
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On December 30 2015 11:33 NocturneMage wrote:
KMatt, can you comment on the following:
Let's see
(1) Irishbound's case/explanation on the Noon/Scott association
Seems silly to me. He says "crackpot theories" are more town-indicative, but if anything I would assume that to be a scum tell. I want to agree with him since he's more experienced, but that sounds like the ideal scum post: make some wacky accusation and leave everyone else to argue it. Of course, that's also too obvious and I doubt an actual scum would post that, but then we get into "Wine on the Table" territory.
I'm not holding it in any weight.
(2) Fidei and his opening reads
Like Fidei said it's all meta-reads. If what he's saying is true I wouldn't argue against policy-lynching Onegu since he's detrimental to winning either way. I still think there are more important people to be watching though.
(3) Noon's posturing (for lack of better words) on GB
He seems to be asking GB to give him townread evidence. GBs made plenty of posts so far so I don't know what else Noon wants from him. I don't see how townreading GB would somehow also scumread me. Just because we're often arguing against each other doesn't mean one of us is scum, especially with the full player count.
(4) Scott and how he looks from your perspective
Did the same thing I've pointed out with a number of people. Starts by making a big post that says nothing (also claimed he was gonna read page 11 and come back) and then vanishes into thin air. At this point I can't even tell if that's scum behavior or people just being lazy about it.
(5) any other issues - EXCEPT Onegu who I feel is bordering the closest to a policy lynch - that you think are deserving of the thread attention? [/QUOTE]
Considering the point about GB having a hollow case against me while wanting the rest of the thread to "discuss" my guilty-ness seems scummy considering he didn't follow up with anything. I'm getting suspicious of GB again with these new developments.
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Going through Shapes ISO was painful, really need to get down on the spam posting or this'll become impossible to keep up with as the game progresses. Really like the explanation behind the Mderg town read inside this post from him and his frustration re; early town reads comes across as genuine, especially when the town read is on himself in this post. I also liked his reaction towards Noons suggestion of PLing in this post, leaning town on him.
@NM - I consider policy lynching and policy lynching while not scumhunting and intentionally stating you won't really participate until D2 entirely different things, the first is annoying but may be null for some players, the second is a scum tell since they're attempting to use something like that to minimise the amount of game related posting they're doing.
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@TheCow - Thanks for the answers Cow, can understand 1) and 3) very much so and find the stance on Fidelis to actually come across as very genuine (I can relate to always finding particular playstyles more scummy). I do need you to elaborate on 2) for me though, I need more specific details about that. Can you explain what made you have me as a scum-read and what changed that read, can you also explain where GB has been "anti-town" without referring to his first opening line.
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@Kmatt - You've missed what I've meant with the Noon/Scott association entirely, NM's referring to this:
On December 30 2015 11:18 Irishbound wrote:b) I find the timing of his push on Onegu (When there was attention on Scott) as well as his shotty reasoning behind town reading Scott in this post to mean that he makes a lot of sense as scum with Scott.
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For the record I totally am not parroting NMs post about the association. You guys just type faster than me >.<
On December 30 2015 12:07 TheCow wrote:
This post is being written as of post 415.
@Kmatt
Before we proceed, I'd like to ask you three quick questions just to get a better understanding of you as a player.
1) How much experience do you have with the game Mafia?
2) How do you feel about this game in its current state?
3) In one sentence, describe yourself as a person. (not a question, but close enough ._.)
Odd, but here we go.
1) I know the rules/role structure from having played the SC2 mod (in that mod each day/night cycle is only a few minutes so there's no real discussion). There was a lot of variety in player powers so I know a fair bit of those interactions, but as for forum mafia and reading people this is my first game.
2) We seem to be converging on a number of potential lynch targets, but there are just too many people staying quiet for my liking. Some of these accusations seem legitimate, but with the deadline looming it doesn't look like we'll have a solid choice.
3) I'm rather calm and slow to anger, taking a patient approach to problem solving, sometimes at the cost of initiative.
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Here's where I'm currently at, only got GlowingBear to go through and read his ISO which I'll do when I get back from the shops:
Town]-- Nocturne - Mderg ---- Kmatt -- TheCow - Shape ----- [Fidei ∙ Onegu ] ---- Giyga - Noon ----- Scott -----[Scum]
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On December 30 2015 11:55 Irishbound wrote:
@NM - I've just finished going through Fideis ISO and have literally no read on him at all, you've got some meta experience with him from what his posts suggest, what's your read on him at the moment (With some reasoning please)?
So basically what I know of Fidei's meta is that as town he tries to solve the game, will whine about spam and is generally a low volume poster since he's a laywer who works ridiculous hours. There are two reads that I have not been able to follow easily (I'm seeing a double standard between Shapelog and GigyaS reads but I do want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding those reads). I don't agree entirely with his initial scott read, partially because I'm sceptical of meta and he used a game (NSM 14 where scott was high activity) where he took a town trait and compared it to here. But looking into the substance - or lack of substance in scott - moving to null would make sense.
There is not enough solving of the game from him and I cannot contest what he's saying on Onegu as a policy lynch, but he has not returned.
I tentatively have a null to scumlean on him largely because I couldn't follow the GigyaS/Shapelog reads but I was going to engage him when he returned to the thread and would hopefully comment on the key issues that have arisen since.
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On December 30 2015 12:09 Irishbound wrote:
Going through Shapes ISO was painful, really need to get down on the spam posting or this'll become impossible to keep up with as the game progresses.
I listen and get told to have fun. I listen and i get told to keep the spam down.
Such is my life.
But look at the people who told me to spam, Noon and GB. Weird Currently people i could lynch/scumlean told me to do something to piss off peeps. Prob. NAI though
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On December 30 2015 12:18 NocturneMage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2015 11:55 Irishbound wrote:
@NM - I've just finished going through Fideis ISO and have literally no read on him at all, you've got some meta experience with him from what his posts suggest, what's your read on him at the moment (With some reasoning please)? So basically what I know of Fidei's meta is that as town he tries to solve the game, will whine about spam and is generally a low volume poster since he's a laywer who works ridiculous hours. There are two reads that I have not been able to follow easily (I'm seeing a double standard between Shapelog and GigyaS reads but I do want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding those reads). I don't agree entirely with his initial scott read, partially because I'm sceptical of meta and he used a game (NSM 14 where scott was high activity) where he took a town trait and compared it to here. But looking into the substance - or lack of substance in scott - moving to null would make sense. There is not enough solving of the game from him and I cannot contest what he's saying on Onegu as a policy lynch, but he has not returned. I tentatively have a null to scumlean on him largely because I couldn't follow the GigyaS/Shapelog reads but I was going to engage him when he returned to the thread and would hopefully comment on the key issues that have arisen since.
ebwop - post 386 is where I'm trying to flesh those reads out with Fidei.
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On December 30 2015 12:14 Irishbound wrote:@Kmatt - You've missed what I've meant with the Noon/Scott association entirely, NM's referring to this: Show nested quote +On December 30 2015 11:18 Irishbound wrote:b) I find the timing of his push on Onegu (When there was attention on Scott) as well as his shotty reasoning behind town reading Scott in this post to mean that he makes a lot of sense as scum with Scott.
Looking over his filter and thread timing, I definitely think it weird that he would make that call when he did. He didn't really say anything in his posts until he wanted to policylynch Onegu, then quickly "townreads" Scott without actually defending or addressing the claims against him (not that they were anything special but still), and then takes off. I feel like I have the same complaint against everyone here.
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This post is being written as of 425.
===
Regarding my early-game read on Irish.
Irish's comment of scott "bandwagoning" noonian felt like an overreaction and the usage of the buzzword (##aside <I realize the irony of using this word>) left a bad taste in my mouth. The entirety of 185 looked like shade, with that bit on 168 also sticking out. This worry was partially extinguished by giaga lamping 172.
Distancing occurred between Kmatt and Irish in the early game with Irish putting (from a SvS PoV) unnecessary pressure onto Kmatt. This caused minor polarizations in my reads. At this moment, Irish was gut-scum. #236 furthered this read.
The developments in my Kmatt and Scott reads contributed to me reevaluating my Irish read. Upon reevaluating the earlier posts in the context of the later posts, things started to line up in a more town-ish way especially with the recent #395. So ultimately it was a null read.
Would you like me to go into more specific detail and do post analysis, or does an overview suffice?
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I need to head to bed, but with where my head is, I think the lynch list needs to be somewhere in this:
Noon/GB/Scott
Further fleshing out: Scott/Fidei/GigyaS
Last resort/policy lynch: Onegu
For GigyaS there was one post that I felt was unlikely to come from scum, but considering where he's not been in thread for >24h now, getting a mindset read with all that has happened is I think pretty important with a few of the concerns brought up.
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On December 30 2015 12:15 Kmatt wrote:For the record I totally am not parroting NMs post about the association. You guys just type faster than me >.< Show nested quote +On December 30 2015 12:07 TheCow wrote:
This post is being written as of post 415.
@Kmatt
Before we proceed, I'd like to ask you three quick questions just to get a better understanding of you as a player.
1) How much experience do you have with the game Mafia?
2) How do you feel about this game in its current state?
3) In one sentence, describe yourself as a person. (not a question, but close enough ._.)
Odd, but here we go. 1) I know the rules/role structure from having played the SC2 mod (in that mod each day/night cycle is only a few minutes so there's no real discussion). There was a lot of variety in player powers so I know a fair bit of those interactions, but as for forum mafia and reading people this is my first game. 2) We seem to be converging on a number of potential lynch targets, but there are just too many people staying quiet for my liking. Some of these accusations seem legitimate, but with the deadline looming it doesn't look like we'll have a solid choice. 3) I'm rather calm and slow to anger, taking a patient approach to problem solving, sometimes at the cost of initiative.
I need to process this and do a bit of rereading to put things into perspective.
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@TheCow - That'll suffice, thanks for that, just wanted to see if the read had a natural progression and backing since it's common for scum to throw players into a "conflicted" pile just to minimise the amount of hard stances they have to take. Judging from your follow up posts though I can understand the conflicted read and can easily see how you'd have a read like that, actually makes me feel quite confident you're town here which is nice.
On December 30 2015 12:33 NocturneMage wrote:I think the lynch list needs to be somewhere in this:
Noon/GB/Scott
I'd add Giyga and still need to get through a GB ISO but otherwise this is exactly where my head is at, still feel most confident about Scott being mafia here and would prefer his lynch inside the pool though.
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So I have CPR and first aid training tomorrow morning so I have to get up early - I should be back on before EoD.
The thing that gets me is - why would noon have a town read on me and go against thread sentiment if he was mafia? What's the motivation - so he moves up for me.
Giygas's filter looks the worse - there's some SC stuff and nothing else - so I'm going to vote for him for now.
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Got around to ISOing Glowing, still find the phrasing of Glowings town read in this post to be a town-tell, that said I can't understand how he town read NM's RVS opening in this post at all. While I understand "holding back information to get reactions" like he suggests he's doing with his Kmatt vote in this post it's also something that's very easy for scum to claim to do and the lack of real content from him within the past 24 hours isn't great. I can kind of see why some people are scum reads him but I have him more nullish now and I'm still not even remotely interested in lynching him.
Don't like Scotts pop in post with little to no content other than him town reading Noonan for something nonsensical, he seems experienced enough to have seen scum white knight a player before. The fact that they're both town reading each other for shotty reasoning is a massive massive red flag.
So pretty much I'm confident that NM, Mderg and TheCow are town, decently confident that Kmatt and Shape are also town. Don't really have a read on Glowing, Fidei or Onegu and want to lynch inside Scott/Noon/Giyga in descending order of preference.
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On December 30 2015 12:33 NocturneMage wrote:
I need to head to bed, but with where my head is, I think the lynch list needs to be somewhere in this:
Noon/GB/Scott
Further fleshing out: Scott/Fidei/GigyaS
Last resort/policy lynch: Onegu
For GigyaS there was one post that I felt was unlikely to come from scum, but considering where he's not been in thread for >24h now, getting a mindset read with all that has happened is I think pretty important with a few of the concerns brought up.
The fact that I believe kush is likely to be town and that scott is impossible to know right now makes me want to lynch you very hard.
Anyway I know I'm lacking contribution. I'll step up tomorrow.
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On December 30 2015 14:57 GlowingBear wrote:The fact that I believe kush is likely to be town and that scott is impossible to know right now makes me want to lynch you very hard.
Explain both stances here for me particularly the "Scott is impossible to know" one since I don't think there's any way you can really believe that if you've read the thread properly.
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I'm sorry I haven't been around today, any be on until tomorrow morning either, but I'll try to come up wake up early to read through thread. Currently writhing this on a friend's phone since mine is dead and I don't have a charger 
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EPT
