On October 29 2015 00:14 Xatalos wrote: 1) Will players know the order of team leaders beforehand? 2) Are all voters revealed after deadline or only the votes themselves?
1) yes 2) all
normal resistance.
well idk for sure but i assume so...
Rayn stop being coy and admit that you are going to be a cohost for this.
I'm happy with a Sunday evening start. Anyone have any objections?
On October 29 2015 08:48 Xatalos wrote: What I meant is that if two spies both sabotage it, then the whole spy team is mostly revealed... Especially if that happens early on.
Why is this?
Like how would town know that there was more than one attempt to sabotoge? Obviusly if the 4th mission fails then that is the case.
Because after every mission everyone is told EXACTLY how many sabotages there were.
So whats the point of revealing exactly how many sabotages happened if you also intend to include a mechanic that prevents unnecessary sabotages from being made?
I agree with this. If we all agree to do the "if there are multiple spies in a team, only the spy that's higher on the list should sabotage", then we just should not have access to the number of sabotages.
On October 29 2015 18:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: rofl why would you not agree to that because it is the optimal strategy if you are scum?
If scum will do it anyway (having only the highest spy sabotaging), and if they won't the game is ruined, there is no need for town to have access to the number of sabotages in the mission right ?
On November 02 2015 09:06 Xatalos wrote: kita, did you get anything out of our furious exchange just now?
I'd say people stating that they are happy that they didn't roll mafia typically increases their chances of being mafia, though I don't know if that actually holds true.
Super stating that his read will be based on how you interact with others and you proceeding to go out of your way to interact with me could be interpreted as you trying to influence his views.
Neither of these points lead to more than a "meh"
Does anyone know if one faction typically wins more often than the other in a standard resistance setup or is it pretty close to 50/50? I'm not all that familiar with how the games usually play out myself. Right now I'm toying with a rng scenarios to see how they play out.
Weird that it took kita 1 hour to answer this question, which was asked to him only a few minutes after his opening post.
On November 02 2015 10:45 kitaman27 wrote: I don't think the advantage of removing spy self-nominations would be worth the trade off of dropping the resistance leader success rate in half so I would encourage resistance leaders to not try anything fancy and exclude themselves. Do others agree?
I don't think a rule on that would be good. Just vote "no" to the team containing the leader if you don't like the leader.
On November 02 2015 17:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: Or like if you were for so me reason you said something super complicatedly instead of just sayinbg "i agree / disagree".
On November 02 2015 08:32 Superbia wrote: Do you really think this game is a nightmare for scum?
On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia.
On November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote: So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that?
LOL "Is it a nightmare ?" "Kinda" "OK now that you said it's not a nightmare ..." You misread something there bro.
On November 02 2015 17:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: kitaman: "I would encourage resistance leaders not to exclude themselves from the team they pick" Rels: "I don't think a rule on that would be good. Just vote "no" to the team containing the leader if you don't like the leader."
I don't know what the underlined sentence has anything to do with what kitaman said, and why is that in your answer. Everyone will obviously not agree with a team that in their opinion a fishy leader proposes, just as in mafia you don't usually follow a lynch a suspicious person proposes. However that has nothing to do with the original question so if you would explain why you wrote that sentence there it would be cool.
I wrote that we should vote no the the team containing the leader if we don't like the leader 'cause I thought we should vote no the the team containing the leader if we don't like the leader.
On November 02 2015 08:15 Xatalos wrote: Anyways, I'm glad I didn't become a Spy because this seems like a nightmare for them without any real communication...
I also don't like the fact you missed this post from the Superbia / Xatalos exchange.
I didn't. Then Superbia asked if it's really a nightmare, Xatalos said yeah, and Superbia said it is not anymore.
On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia.
The answer to the question is "yeah". The explanation is "it's somewhat anti-scum". Superbia should have gone either "OK this makes sense you're good" or "OK this makes sense, but it's still scummy to claim that in your opening posts". Looks like to me he decided to scumread Xatalos and is looking for reasons to do so.
On November 02 2015 18:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: I can really easily see where Superbia is coming from. Xatalos made a claim that the game is "nightmare" for scum, and when Superbia questioned him about it the "nightmare" became "somewhat anti-scum", which definitely is not "nightmare" in my opinion aswell.
Now i don't think that necessarily makes Xatalos scum, but it makes perfect sense for Superbia to scumread him for that.
Seemed super disproportionnate to me. Like it was "scumread for a long time" at first. Now it's "mild scumread" which would have been understandable in the first place. And Xatalos' alignement will be obvious in a few days. That's what I learned hosting my game. (=
On November 02 2015 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: I take it that you don't have any townreads Rels?
No.
That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them.
So what, do you think we are all scum or what?
No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that.
On November 02 2015 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: I take it that you don't have any townreads Rels?
No.
That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them.
So what, do you think we are all scum or what?
No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that.
On July 25 2015 03:34 ruXxar wrote: rayn rayn rayn
???
Are you mafia?
of course i am not mafia. why would you think so?
I don't think so yet, I'm asking you.
PS: where is the voting thread I can't find it.
you vote in this thread. why do you ask me if you do not think i am mafia?
It's definitely not what I had in mind. I'm pretty sure I remember rayn being angry that someone asked him a dumb question, but can't recall where I saw this. Asking me if I think all 4 people are scum is dumb.
On November 02 2015 18:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: I can really easily see where Superbia is coming from. Xatalos made a claim that the game is "nightmare" for scum, and when Superbia questioned him about it the "nightmare" became "somewhat anti-scum", which definitely is not "nightmare" in my opinion aswell.
Now i don't think that necessarily makes Xatalos scum, but it makes perfect sense for Superbia to scumread him for that.
Seemed super disproportionnate to me. Like it was "scumread for a long time" at first. Now it's "mild scumread" which would have been understandable in the first place. And Xatalos' alignement will be obvious in a few days. That's what I learned hosting my game. (=
Okay. So in your opinion Superbia is scum for what he said? Why is Xatalos not scum as he basically did the same thing?
Xatalos is not in the game for me for a few days 'cause I know how to read his alignement after that. And you should too, since you played with him in the game I'm hosting. Superbia is suspicious 'cause it would make sense with him deciding Xatalos is scum and finding a new reason to scumread him after the first.
On November 02 2015 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: I take it that you don't have any townreads Rels?
No.
That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them.
So what, do you think we are all scum or what?
No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that.
What i am trying to say that i find it suspicious you are not trying to make reads yet, and i think that is not normal for you. Especially when this is not a situation where making reads does not help anything (unlike for example if in a mafia game you think everyone who has posted so far are town).
If i compared this to a normal mafia this would be a situation where you know at least one of the people who have posted is mafia for sure but you are refusing to figure it out further.
OK bro. I don't have townreads on anyone that posted. I don't have scumreads on them either. I have suspicions on Superbia, kita and you.
On November 02 2015 18:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you can't differentiate an actual dumb question from obvious sarcasm you are either dumb or making up stuff.
Are you fucking serious ?? Someone asking you if you are mafia is obviously not serious too, yet you got angry when someone did it to you. OK I'm going to find where you did that.
On November 02 2015 18:29 Rels wrote: But you forgot a question bro. Do you know what I'm talking about with Xatalos' being obvious in a few days ?
I know what you are talking about. I don't see that being townie in any way though since "in a few days" this game might be on mission 2 or even 3. So it doesn't really work that way in Resistance.
Easy. Just have to not include him the first team, and if it doesn't go through, vote no when he's leader tomorrow.
On November 02 2015 18:48 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think it would be funny if you told everyone why i am suspicious.
The reason is you asked me a dumb question when you hate being asked a dumb question. Your post listing your reads was townie though, it shows you're either thinking about the game as a whole and not getting tunneled on me, which is town indicative.
On November 02 2015 18:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: But you can't even find the comparison you are making so by default you should not even know if the situation here is similar (which it isn't)
So you know what I'm talking about. Where did you do it ?
On November 02 2015 19:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay this is the last thing i will say here.
You literally made this case; "metawise rayn is scum here because he thinks doing X is stupid but here he does X himself. I don't really remember nor can find where he did X, but unless he proves he did not do X in that other game he is still scum."
And you can't see that there is something wrong with this? Really?
Mm maybe that's why I spent time looking for the damn post ? I agree that the context really is different. Even if I don't find Slam's question dumb. p:
There are useless person around. SL said nothing interesting, Artanis promised he would post tonight, Shockey and HTS didn't say anything. Please don't include them in teams before they stop being useless.
On November 02 2015 18:29 Rels wrote: But you forgot a question bro. Do you know what I'm talking about with Xatalos' being obvious in a few days ?
I know what you are talking about. I don't see that being townie in any way though since "in a few days" this game might be on mission 2 or even 3. So it doesn't really work that way in Resistance.
Easy. Just have to not include him the first team, and if it doesn't go through, vote no when he's leader tomorrow.
:/
I guess you're referring to my town/scum activity? Well, it's not a bad point really. Just a bit sad if you exclude me until late for that.
Yes, and that's only today, since tomorrow you're leader and we'll be able to judge you then. I think it's a good idea to not include you to today's team.
On November 02 2015 20:41 Superbia wrote: Xat&rest- Xat's initial post set me off. Saying something like "this is a nightmare for scum" has two results (from writer POV): 1. It distances you from "scum". 2. It downplays scum.
1. Is NAI. 2 is super weird from a town perspective, and leans me more towards mafia. I feel like if you were town and believed this you would've focused on the strength of town, rather than the weakness of mafia, and as a result, would've said something along the lines of "mafia gonna get #rekt #noqt" (or something less trolly). Regardless I feel like commenting on how "weak" mafia is is mafia indicative as it sets up for a lax game.
Now I already had a very real suspicion that you knew that this set up is not a "nightmare" for scum, as you have played resistance(/avalon) before (noted by you correctly associating my merlin comment with avalon). So that double begs the question why you felt the need to point out that mafia was "weak".
I also understand that there is no resolving this situation regardless of your alignment. We can't talk this shit out- since it my suspicion and your possibly-innocent post. I am going, however, going to be suspicious of you. Unfairly? Maybe. But we'll see how your day plays out. So far I don't really like how you've been soft-pushing my push on you. But that may be biased of me.
On the topic of rayn&rels:
I loved rayn's initial post of calling me town, this is exactly the type of opening I would expect out of town-rayn. I would love to hear some more depth behind his meta-read on Xat. But so far rayn is leaning town.
Rels I don't know about. Feels weird that he is literally postponing a read (and not evaluating him at all) on Xat until d3 or whatever (This is something I have done as scum before). The fact that he is also comfortable evaluating people (me, and partially rayn- although I understand rayn) based on interactions with xat feels scummy.
In fact, re-reading the order in which this happens makes me like him less and less. He starts off by going fairly aggressive against my side of the (now infamous) Xat/Super debacle, without giving an opinion on Xat. The fact that I'm nitpicking (your words) against Xat should be NAI, unless you have a town-read on Xat (which you don't). This is highlighted by the fact that if Xat were mafia in this instance, this type of pressure could make me look town, but since you shouldn't know Xat's alignment, you also shouldn't be able to voice a proper opinion on this. You then LATER say that Xat's alignment will become obvious later during the game (also scummy-esque).
So, Rels probably has TMI, and should never be included in any team.
Several things: 1 - "I loved rayn's initial post of calling me town, this is exactly the type of opening I would expect out of town-rayn. I would love to hear some more depth behind his meta-read on Xat. But so far rayn is leaning town." Agree 2 - What is your read now on Xatalos ? 3 - The problem I have is not just "nitpick" buzzword. It's:
On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia.
On November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote: So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that?
LOL "Is it a nightmare ?" "Kinda" "OK now that you said it's not a nightmare ..." You misread something there bro.
On November 02 2015 21:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think you should try to find two townreads besides Superbia if you think that's possible when you have read everything closely.
On November 02 2015 22:04 Xatalos wrote: Btw you said that HTS should name two townies other than Superbia? Are you implying that she shouldn't include herself on the team? At least in IRL Resistance, we usually thought that either the leader should be trusted (accepted with leader included) or not trusted (team refused). Did you usually make teams regardless of the leader?
No, i don't want her to get the easy way out of just giving two reads as if she is mafia she can just name two townies and then say "well i know i am town so i am going of course".
Basically it has nothing to do with if she is gonna go on the mission or not, i just don't like the "Palmar approach" to Resistance (or like -- at least how he used to start Resistance games), as you basically exclude yourself on giving reads (other than easy ones) as you "just have to have this much townreads".
If you get what i am saying?
NOOOO )= )= )= I was so sure that was a super trap )= I had accepted you as town
On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance.
...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push.
Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far.
I find this super convenient. Superbia started by scumreading Xata for the nightmare thing, which is understandable. Then there was the "is it still nightmarish ?" "kinda" "now that you've said it's not nightmarish anymore ..." scumread which was super weird. And now that rayn thinks Xata is town for meta, suddenly Xata is town for Superbia too, and I have TMI on him.
On November 02 2015 17:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well thank you captain obvious. I bet alot of players would not realize that unless you said it.
You're welcome! I don't understand why you're hard townreading Superbia, who nitpicked something to death and made it the basis for a "mild" scumread.
Is this your way of saying "i agree with the townread on rayn"?
I don't understand. Maybe you quoted the wrong post bro.
Can you point out to a post of yours where you imply you read me as town for my Superbia read? Because i really feel like your filter says the opposite.
Where do I say I read you as town for your Superbia's read ?
On November 02 2015 22:16 Rels wrote: 1 - "I loved rayn's initial post of calling me town, this is exactly the type of opening I would expect out of town-rayn. I would love to hear some more depth behind his meta-read on Xat. But so far rayn is leaning town." Agree
here?
Fuck. I copied too much, I agreed that you should expand on your meta read.
On November 02 2015 22:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: Not really. Or i can, but it doesn't tell anything to you. It basically has to do with what i have talked with him on skype after your game.
On November 02 2015 22:26 Xatalos wrote: Rels, you think I'm currently completely unreadable? Really? That's what your earlier post implied.
Now I think you're town. You're being active and you meddle with everything in the thread, exactly like in the game I'm hosting.
So why not include me in a team already...? >.>
Well now I think it's a good idea to include you in a team (= the post before was when I was catching up.
Hmm....
So you didn't think my early posts were towny, but the latter ones are?
I think I've been playing the same throughout the game though.
Or...?
The thing is you meddle with everything going on in the thread. That wasn't evident at the start of the game, since, well, not much was going on.
Alright... Well, I guess I can see that.
How about the way you called Superbia's push bad while saying I'm a null read? If you didn't think I was town yet, shouldn't it be good to pressure me for reactions?
You quoted the fucking post that I had a problem with ???
On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia.
On November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote: So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that?
LOL "Is it a nightmare ?" "Kinda" "OK now that you said it's not a nightmare ..." You misread something there bro.
On November 02 2015 22:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think that's a really shitty reason to call anyone scum Rels.
On November 02 2015 17:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: He didn't really say "yes", he said "kinda" which can basically read as "changing your opinion without no real reason".
That's a good reason. 1. Superbia scumreads Xatalos for saying rolling scum would be nightmarish. 2. Superbia scumreads Xatalos for saying rolling scum is not nightmarish, when Xatalos said it was kinda nightmarish.
On November 02 2015 22:26 Xatalos wrote: Rels, you think I'm currently completely unreadable? Really? That's what your earlier post implied.
Now I think you're town. You're being active and you meddle with everything in the thread, exactly like in the game I'm hosting.
So why not include me in a team already...? >.>
Well now I think it's a good idea to include you in a team (= the post before was when I was catching up.
Hmm....
So you didn't think my early posts were towny, but the latter ones are?
I think I've been playing the same throughout the game though.
Or...?
The thing is you meddle with everything going on in the thread. That wasn't evident at the start of the game, since, well, not much was going on.
Alright... Well, I guess I can see that.
How about the way you called Superbia's push bad while saying I'm a null read? If you didn't think I was town yet, shouldn't it be good to pressure me for reactions?
You quoted the fucking post that I had a problem with ???
On November 02 2015 17:45 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 08:32 Superbia wrote: Do you really think this game is a nightmare for scum?
On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia.
On November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote: So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that?
LOL "Is it a nightmare ?" "Kinda" "OK now that you said it's not a nightmare ..." You misread something there bro.
Well, it was a dumb post by him.... But kind of like rayn's description of Superbia's read, it's not necessarily scummy, just wrong?
It's a small scum indication IMO. Nothing strong, but definitely not town indicative or NAI.
On November 02 2015 22:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: It basically has to do with how he approaches the game and how he gathers reads and what he does/doesn't do as scum. Obviously he could now "mimic" his townplay as mafia as he also knows we have talked about it but it would also give him away because he would have to say something that doesn't make sense from town perspective. And i don't see anything like that here.
OK TY. Xatalos does that make sense ? (I suppose scum!rayn wouldn't lie, but lets make sure)
On November 02 2015 22:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think that's a really shitty reason to call anyone scum Rels.
On November 02 2015 17:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: He didn't really say "yes", he said "kinda" which can basically read as "changing your opinion without no real reason".
That's a good reason. 1. Superbia scumreads Xatalos for saying rolling scum would be nightmarish. 2. Superbia scumreads Xatalos for saying rolling scum is not nightmarish, when Xatalos said it was kinda nightmarish.
Yes and he explained why he said both of those things. Why don't you prove why his explanation does not make sense from town point of view instead of arguing the same old thing?
Here:
On November 02 2015 18:15 Rels wrote: Superbia is suspicious 'cause it would make sense with him deciding Xatalos is scum and finding a new reason to scumread him after the first.
I agree that's not a strong point. However that's the scummiest thing in the thread right now.
On November 02 2015 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: I take it that you don't have any townreads Rels?
No.
That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them.
So what, do you think we are all scum or what?
No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that.
What i am trying to say that i find it suspicious you are not trying to make reads yet, and i think that is not normal for you. Especially when this is not a situation where making reads does not help anything (unlike for example if in a mafia game you think everyone who has posted so far are town).
If i compared this to a normal mafia this would be a situation where you know at least one of the people who have posted is mafia for sure but you are refusing to figure it out further.
OK bro. I don't have townreads on anyone that posted. I don't have scumreads on them either. I have suspicions on Superbia, kita and you.
This post seems somewhat contradictory (not the only post I'll comment on from Rels). Based on the sentences bolded you should in theory be scumleaning the three you listed. I'm also not clear on why you are scumreading rayn or what is jumping out at yoru scumread on rayn. I understand your argument for your initial exchange on Superbia/Xatalos is that Superbia's read on Xatalos was manufactured and I'm seeing your followup on page 16, but where was the suspicion on rayn coming from page 11?
On November 02 2015 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: I take it that you don't have any townreads Rels?
No.
That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them.
So what, do you think we are all scum or what?
No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that.
On November 02 2015 22:56 Half the Sky wrote: Also Rels, my post on shockey was because of him saying he's catching up, he hadn't posted jack all before that.
It indicates that you read the thread, or at least the last few posts starting page 16, when you said you were stuck on page 12. Not sure it's alignement indicative but I have no idea why you would lie about that.
On November 02 2015 22:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think that's a really shitty reason to call anyone scum Rels.
On November 02 2015 17:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: He didn't really say "yes", he said "kinda" which can basically read as "changing your opinion without no real reason".
That's a good reason. 1. Superbia scumreads Xatalos for saying rolling scum would be nightmarish. 2. Superbia scumreads Xatalos for saying rolling scum is not nightmarish, when Xatalos said it was kinda nightmarish.
Yes and he explained why he said both of those things. Why don't you prove why his explanation does not make sense from town point of view instead of arguing the same old thing?
Here:
On November 02 2015 18:15 Rels wrote: Superbia is suspicious 'cause it would make sense with him deciding Xatalos is scum and finding a new reason to scumread him after the first.
I agree that's not a strong point. However that's the scummiest thing in the thread right now.
But the thing is he never used that reasoning to scumread Xatalos further.
Yeah exactly. Now he townreads him when you townread him, and he is saying I have TMI on Xatalos.
On November 02 2015 16:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Clarity is mafia.
Ready to hear stuff from you anytime.
Feel free to, I just arrived at work and I probably won't do anything until late at night.
Depending on what time he comes back, Arta shouldn't be part on a team too. "Late at night" I suppose means 22:00, which is 2 hours before deadline in France and I think in Netherlands too.
On November 02 2015 20:11 Xatalos wrote: Rels seemed okay on activity and focus on interaction, town? Artanis and SL basically didn't do anything yet so null.
Rels is very active as mafia (reference: Drams, SOTW 2) and in SOTW I believe he also did the latter.
(This doesn't make you scum btw, I am just pointing the flaw in your argument and I don't recall you having played in either game.)
I'm not sure if I've ever played with Rels before. He's really this active as scum?
On November 02 2015 23:07 Xatalos wrote: I'm not sure if I've ever played with Rels before. He's really this active as scum? He seems almost hyper-active
OK this tire me so let's lay out what happened. Timeline.
1. Superbia scumreads Xata for saying "playing scum is a nightmare".
On November 02 2015 08:18 Superbia wrote: I instantly retract my townread.
On November 02 2015 08:20 Superbia wrote: So it's in no way a "nightmare" for "them". Which you should know, since you have played the game before.
2. Superbia asks Xata if he really thinks it's a nightmare, Xata kinda confirms.
On November 02 2015 08:32 Superbia wrote: Do you really think this game is a nightmare for scum?
On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia.
3. Superbia uses this to make Xatalos say something he didn't: that being scum isn't nightmarish
On November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote: So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that?
Conclusion That is the problem with Superbia's early play; twisting Xatalos' words to something he didn't mean. Now he turned that read around to townread Xatalos, and rayn is claiming it's not suspicous, which might be right. But this word-twisting stuff is scum indicative.
On November 02 2015 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: I take it that you don't have any townreads Rels?
No.
That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them.
So what, do you think we are all scum or what?
No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that.
What i am trying to say that i find it suspicious you are not trying to make reads yet, and i think that is not normal for you. Especially when this is not a situation where making reads does not help anything (unlike for example if in a mafia game you think everyone who has posted so far are town).
If i compared this to a normal mafia this would be a situation where you know at least one of the people who have posted is mafia for sure but you are refusing to figure it out further.
OK bro. I don't have townreads on anyone that posted. I don't have scumreads on them either. I have suspicions on Superbia, kita and you.
This post seems somewhat contradictory (not the only post I'll comment on from Rels). Based on the sentences bolded you should in theory be scumleaning the three you listed. I'm also not clear on why you are scumreading rayn or what is jumping out at yoru scumread on rayn. I understand your argument for your initial exchange on Superbia/Xatalos is that Superbia's read on Xatalos was manufactured and I'm seeing your followup on page 16, but where was the suspicion on rayn coming from page 11?
I thought this question was scummy:
On November 02 2015 18:09 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 18:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 02 2015 18:02 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: I take it that you don't have any townreads Rels?
No.
That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them.
So what, do you think we are all scum or what?
No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that.
On November 02 2015 22:56 Half the Sky wrote: Also Rels, my post on shockey was because of him saying he's catching up, he hadn't posted jack all before that.
It indicates that you read the thread, or at least the last few posts starting page 16, when you said you were stuck on page 12. Not sure it's alignement indicative but I have no idea why you would lie about that.
I don't see how that made rayn scummy. He's coming to conclusions with his arguments and he's trying to see if you are coming to conclusions on people's alignments which is generally a town trait. And if you are struggling, why, townies can struggle with getting reads too (reference rsoultin in Drams) so naturally he's nitpicking to see your rationale.
Mm maybe I didn't explain why I thought it was scummy.
On November 02 2015 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: I take it that you don't have any townreads Rels?
No.
That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them.
So what, do you think we are all scum or what?
No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that.
Oh I actually did!
The scummy isn't nitpicking specific points, which is something town!rayn always do; the problem was asking a dumb question, when I remembered him getting angry at the fact he was being ask a dumb question, so I don't know why he would do this himself. Now rayn quoted the angry post, and it was not really the same context.
On November 02 2015 23:15 ShoCkeyy wrote: I haven't finished reading the thread, but since I did play with rayn last game where he was mafia and this really brings up his current meta:
That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them.
So what, do you think we are all scum or what?
No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that.
What i am trying to say that i find it suspicious you are not trying to make reads yet, and i think that is not normal for you. Especially when this is not a situation where making reads does not help anything (unlike for example if in a mafia game you think everyone who has posted so far are town).
If i compared this to a normal mafia this would be a situation where you know at least one of the people who have posted is mafia for sure but you are refusing to figure it out further.
OK bro. I don't have townreads on anyone that posted. I don't have scumreads on them either. I have suspicions on Superbia, kita and you.
This post seems somewhat contradictory (not the only post I'll comment on from Rels). Based on the sentences bolded you should in theory be scumleaning the three you listed. I'm also not clear on why you are scumreading rayn or what is jumping out at yoru scumread on rayn. I understand your argument for your initial exchange on Superbia/Xatalos is that Superbia's read on Xatalos was manufactured and I'm seeing your followup on page 16, but where was the suspicion on rayn coming from page 11?
I thought this question was scummy:
On November 02 2015 18:09 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 18:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 02 2015 18:02 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: I take it that you don't have any townreads Rels?
No.
That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them.
So what, do you think we are all scum or what?
No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that.
On November 02 2015 22:56 Half the Sky wrote: Also Rels, my post on shockey was because of him saying he's catching up, he hadn't posted jack all before that.
It indicates that you read the thread, or at least the last few posts starting page 16, when you said you were stuck on page 12. Not sure it's alignement indicative but I have no idea why you would lie about that.
I don't see how that made rayn scummy. He's coming to conclusions with his arguments and he's trying to see if you are coming to conclusions on people's alignments which is generally a town trait. And if you are struggling, why, townies can struggle with getting reads too (reference rsoultin in Drams) so naturally he's nitpicking to see your rationale.
Mm maybe I didn't explain why I thought it was scummy.
On November 02 2015 18:09 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 18:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 02 2015 18:02 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: I take it that you don't have any townreads Rels?
No.
That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them.
So what, do you think we are all scum or what?
No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that.
Oh I actually did!
The scummy isn't nitpicking specific points, which is something town!rayn always do; the problem was asking a dumb question, when I remembered him getting angry at the fact he was being ask a dumb question, so I don't know why he would do this himself. Now rayn quoted the angry post, and it was not really the same context.
Admittedly I'm finding this tenuous but after reading a few times I think I am understanding your viewpoint, you are saying that rayn isn't acting consistently between games (correct?). I don't agree this makes him scum, but I can at least see this. My only thing here - "are you mafia?" he and others have done this (example: Koshi - "how mafia are you?") out of spite/emotion, and I'm not sure such types of questions can really be taken seriously nor most people who ask them don't really expect, those questions are out of emotion imo - how can people really answer?
For example when Koshi does this he accompanies that question with something else to substantiate that emotion (reference: Void), rayn does the same thing except he splits his posts up (reference SOTW I believe).
The reason I disagreed with the question being dumb because I saw the purposes and how he reached his conclusions from the questions asked.
Am I making sense here?
You are making sense. You are wrong concerning rayn. I don't see him asking dumb questions like that. In fact, he gets angry when he's being asked dumb questions. But I agree the "do you really have 4 scumreads ?" was more of an accusation that a dumb question.
On November 02 2015 23:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hey Rels why do you actually think i am town?
I'm not sure you are. You're attacking people over small logical things and you are thinking about the game as a whole; that is town indicative, but I know you can replicate that as town; at least that what you and several other people claimed before.
On November 02 2015 09:06 Xatalos wrote: kita, did you get anything out of our furious exchange just now?
I'd say people stating that they are happy that they didn't roll mafia typically increases their chances of being mafia, though I don't know if that actually holds true.
Super stating that his read will be based on how you interact with others and you proceeding to go out of your way to interact with me could be interpreted as you trying to influence his views.
Neither of these points lead to more than a "meh"
Does anyone know if one faction typically wins more often than the other in a standard resistance setup or is it pretty close to 50/50? I'm not all that familiar with how the games usually play out myself. Right now I'm toying with a rng scenarios to see how they play out.
Weird that it took kita 1 hour to answer this question, which was asked to him only a few minutes after his opening post.
Weird that you imply I was carefully crafting a response for 1 hour, rather than simply responding once I returned to read the thread. Though I do wonder to myself why a spy Rels would attack me for such a ticky tack point. I'd expect a spy to push something along the lines of "kita isn't contributing what I would expect from his town play", rather than trying to paint me in a bad light from the start.
No. You saying "hello" then not answering a question asked 5 minutes later is the weird part. Don't mix up things.
On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance.
...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push.
Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far.
Yeah I was town and got shot eventually. Why does that make me townie?
On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance.
...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push.
Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far.
Yeah I was town and got shot eventually. Why does that make me townie?
Your posting style and activity level seems similar to that game. Mind you that I've read/skimmed maybe 7-8 pages, so I'm not confident enough to give you a lot of townie-points.
Okay, that makes sense.
Alright, these questions are quite town. I know Rels argued TMI from Superbia. So at least I know to flag that argument reviewing Rels later...
It's the other way around, Superbia argued TMI from me! But would love to know your take on it either way
On November 02 2015 18:09 Rels wrote: [quote] No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that.
What i am trying to say that i find it suspicious you are not trying to make reads yet, and i think that is not normal for you. Especially when this is not a situation where making reads does not help anything (unlike for example if in a mafia game you think everyone who has posted so far are town).
If i compared this to a normal mafia this would be a situation where you know at least one of the people who have posted is mafia for sure but you are refusing to figure it out further.
OK bro. I don't have townreads on anyone that posted. I don't have scumreads on them either. I have suspicions on Superbia, kita and you.
This post seems somewhat contradictory (not the only post I'll comment on from Rels). Based on the sentences bolded you should in theory be scumleaning the three you listed. I'm also not clear on why you are scumreading rayn or what is jumping out at yoru scumread on rayn. I understand your argument for your initial exchange on Superbia/Xatalos is that Superbia's read on Xatalos was manufactured and I'm seeing your followup on page 16, but where was the suspicion on rayn coming from page 11?
I thought this question was scummy:
On November 02 2015 18:09 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 18:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 02 2015 18:02 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: I take it that you don't have any townreads Rels?
No.
That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them.
So what, do you think we are all scum or what?
No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that.
On November 02 2015 22:56 Half the Sky wrote: Also Rels, my post on shockey was because of him saying he's catching up, he hadn't posted jack all before that.
It indicates that you read the thread, or at least the last few posts starting page 16, when you said you were stuck on page 12. Not sure it's alignement indicative but I have no idea why you would lie about that.
I don't see how that made rayn scummy. He's coming to conclusions with his arguments and he's trying to see if you are coming to conclusions on people's alignments which is generally a town trait. And if you are struggling, why, townies can struggle with getting reads too (reference rsoultin in Drams) so naturally he's nitpicking to see your rationale.
Mm maybe I didn't explain why I thought it was scummy.
On November 02 2015 18:09 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 18:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 02 2015 18:02 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: I take it that you don't have any townreads Rels?
No.
That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them.
So what, do you think we are all scum or what?
No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that.
Oh I actually did!
The scummy isn't nitpicking specific points, which is something town!rayn always do; the problem was asking a dumb question, when I remembered him getting angry at the fact he was being ask a dumb question, so I don't know why he would do this himself. Now rayn quoted the angry post, and it was not really the same context.
Admittedly I'm finding this tenuous but after reading a few times I think I am understanding your viewpoint, you are saying that rayn isn't acting consistently between games (correct?). I don't agree this makes him scum, but I can at least see this. My only thing here - "are you mafia?" he and others have done this (example: Koshi - "how mafia are you?") out of spite/emotion, and I'm not sure such types of questions can really be taken seriously nor most people who ask them don't really expect, those questions are out of emotion imo - how can people really answer?
For example when Koshi does this he accompanies that question with something else to substantiate that emotion (reference: Void), rayn does the same thing except he splits his posts up (reference SOTW I believe).
The reason I disagreed with the question being dumb because I saw the purposes and how he reached his conclusions from the questions asked.
Am I making sense here?
You are making sense. You are wrong concerning rayn. I don't see him asking dumb questions like that. In fact, he gets angry when he's being asked dumb questions. But I agree the "do you really have 4 scumreads ?" was more of an accusation that a dumb question.
So you are saying that I'm wrong in my read on rayn (you are implying he's scum, correct?)
No, I'm not implying he's scum in that post. I'm implying that he wouldn't ask a dumb question. I did it when I said "I don't see him asking dumb questions like that".
On November 03 2015 01:00 Half the Sky wrote: Why do you think his "are you mafia" is a serious (albeit dumb) question that should be taken serious and such a scumread - and why do you think this offsets the rest of his play (play that does not involve you)?
I don't anymore. I did it when I said "But I agree the "do you really have 4 scumreads ?" was more of an accusation that a dumb question." (actually I did it before, but I restated it in the post you quoted)
On November 03 2015 01:00 Half the Sky wrote: Are you suggesting in any form that I should remove him from my team?
I didn't suggest anything from the post above. But since you're asking, I would like you to elect Xatalos / kita / me. rayn instead of one of the three could be OK too. And since I suppose the next question will be "but you were suspicious of kita!", I liked his recent posts.
On November 02 2015 23:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hey Rels why do you actually think i am town?
I'm not sure you are. You're attacking people over small logical things and you are thinking about the game as a whole; that is town indicative, but I know you can replicate that as town; at least that what you and several other people claimed before.
Hm... Who would replace rayn then?
In which team ? rayn could be town so I'm OK with him in a team; I would prefer you / Xata / me though.
On November 03 2015 01:01 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, HTS/rayn/Xata could work... HTS has seemed pretty focused on solving the game
How do you differentiate HTS solving the game as town from HTS setting herself up as a likely nomination as spy by bringing along active players? Were there certain posts that you can point me to that suggest she is analyzing things from only a town perspective?
Well, she's clearly reading the thread and making original findings. Such as the way I inquired Superbia about his townread on me, or how you were making filler posts here and there.... She's also coming to pretty good conclusions from those findings. Hard to ask for more at this point.
She's not clearly reading the thread. That's three things she misread, and three things about me too: 1 - TMI stuff (she thought I did it, when it was Superbia) 2 - Disagreeing on rayn (she thought I said rayn was scum, when I said he wouldn't ask dumb questions) 3 - Dumb questions (she asked me why I thought rayn wouldn't ask dumb questions, when I already stated he actually didn't)
On November 03 2015 00:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: Did anyone actually look at the game and why i got mad there?
Yeah you messed up the vote timing I think? Well, you basically lost because of it, so I can understand getting angry in that situation.
yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right?
Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game.
Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia.
Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.".
Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went.
You mean he could be trying to make you ragequit or something?
I thought this would have get answered later, apparently not; rayn I would love an answer to that.
On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia.
3. Superbia uses this to make Xatalos say something he didn't: that being scum isn't nightmarish
On November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote: So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that?
Conclusion That is the problem with Superbia's early play; twisting Xatalos' words to something he didn't mean. Now he turned that read around to townread Xatalos, and rayn is claiming it's not suspicous, which might be right. But this word-twisting stuff is scum indicative.
On November 03 2015 01:01 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, HTS/rayn/Xata could work... HTS has seemed pretty focused on solving the game
How do you differentiate HTS solving the game as town from HTS setting herself up as a likely nomination as spy by bringing along active players? Were there certain posts that you can point me to that suggest she is analyzing things from only a town perspective?
Well, she's clearly reading the thread and making original findings. Such as the way I inquired Superbia about his townread on me, or how you were making filler posts here and there.... She's also coming to pretty good conclusions from those findings. Hard to ask for more at this point.
She's not clearly reading the thread. That's three things she misread, and three things about me too: 1 - TMI stuff (she thought I did it, when it was Superbia) 2 - Disagreeing on rayn (she thought I said rayn was scum, when I said he wouldn't ask dumb questions) 3 - Dumb questions (she asked me why I thought rayn wouldn't ask dumb questions, when I already stated he actually didn't)
I may have missed something, but why did you say he wouldn't ask dumb questions if you didn't mean he was scum for it?
Time A: I thought rayn asked a dumb question. Time B: I don't think that anymore. Time C: HTS quoted a post where I cleary said I don't think that anymore, and asked me why rayn was scum for that. A => B => C obv.
On November 03 2015 01:01 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, HTS/rayn/Xata could work... HTS has seemed pretty focused on solving the game
How do you differentiate HTS solving the game as town from HTS setting herself up as a likely nomination as spy by bringing along active players? Were there certain posts that you can point me to that suggest she is analyzing things from only a town perspective?
Well, she's clearly reading the thread and making original findings. Such as the way I inquired Superbia about his townread on me, or how you were making filler posts here and there.... She's also coming to pretty good conclusions from those findings. Hard to ask for more at this point.
She's not clearly reading the thread. That's three things she misread, and three things about me too: 1 - TMI stuff (she thought I did it, when it was Superbia) 2 - Disagreeing on rayn (she thought I said rayn was scum, when I said he wouldn't ask dumb questions) 3 - Dumb questions (she asked me why I thought rayn wouldn't ask dumb questions, when I already stated he actually didn't)
I may have missed something, but why did you say he wouldn't ask dumb questions if you didn't mean he was scum for it?
That is exactly what I meant by that. Dumb questions - nowhere - scum implication.
>_<
It does for rayn, as he gets angry when he's being asked dumb questions; why would he do it as town ?
On November 02 2015 23:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hey Rels why do you actually think i am town?
I'm not sure you are. You're attacking people over small logical things and you are thinking about the game as a whole; that is town indicative, but I know you can replicate that as town; at least that what you and several other people claimed before.
Hm... Who would replace rayn then?
In which team ? rayn could be town so I'm OK with him in a team; I would prefer you / Xata / me though.
I fully support this team.
Hi!
You fully support Xata / Xata / Rels ? Yeah, good team.
On November 03 2015 01:01 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, HTS/rayn/Xata could work... HTS has seemed pretty focused on solving the game
How do you differentiate HTS solving the game as town from HTS setting herself up as a likely nomination as spy by bringing along active players? Were there certain posts that you can point me to that suggest she is analyzing things from only a town perspective?
Well, she's clearly reading the thread and making original findings. Such as the way I inquired Superbia about his townread on me, or how you were making filler posts here and there.... She's also coming to pretty good conclusions from those findings. Hard to ask for more at this point.
She's not clearly reading the thread. That's three things she misread, and three things about me too: 1 - TMI stuff (she thought I did it, when it was Superbia) 2 - Disagreeing on rayn (she thought I said rayn was scum, when I said he wouldn't ask dumb questions) 3 - Dumb questions (she asked me why I thought rayn wouldn't ask dumb questions, when I already stated he actually didn't)
I may have missed something, but why did you say he wouldn't ask dumb questions if you didn't mean he was scum for it?
That is exactly what I meant by that. Dumb questions - nowhere - scum implication.
>_<
It does for rayn, as he gets angry when he's being asked dumb questions; why would he do it as town ?
??????
Why would he do it as town? There's no rhyme or reason to that, he just does, other than he's explicitly said he doesn't deal with stupidity.
Or am I misunderstanding you? Why would he do it as town - from context you mean get angry?
Holy hell, I think we might be talking around each other. I am finding your posts extremely tenuous this game, and I know I've said that at least once before.
The sentence should read "Why would he ask a dumb question ?"
On November 03 2015 01:32 ShoCkeyy wrote: Rels do you think rayn is scum or not?
He's a townlean right now. That probably won't change for the better until a mission he's part of succeeds.
Why do you think he's a town lean? Do you still want him to not be part of the first team?
Cause he's attacking people over logical things, has hard townreads and is trying to solve the game as a whole. That's his town meta. I'm OK with him being part of the first team.
On November 03 2015 01:01 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, HTS/rayn/Xata could work... HTS has seemed pretty focused on solving the game
How do you differentiate HTS solving the game as town from HTS setting herself up as a likely nomination as spy by bringing along active players? Were there certain posts that you can point me to that suggest she is analyzing things from only a town perspective?
Well, she's clearly reading the thread and making original findings. Such as the way I inquired Superbia about his townread on me, or how you were making filler posts here and there.... She's also coming to pretty good conclusions from those findings. Hard to ask for more at this point.
She's not clearly reading the thread. That's three things she misread, and three things about me too: 1 - TMI stuff (she thought I did it, when it was Superbia) 2 - Disagreeing on rayn (she thought I said rayn was scum, when I said he wouldn't ask dumb questions) 3 - Dumb questions (she asked me why I thought rayn wouldn't ask dumb questions, when I already stated he actually didn't)
I may have missed something, but why did you say he wouldn't ask dumb questions if you didn't mean he was scum for it?
That is exactly what I meant by that. Dumb questions - nowhere - scum implication.
>_<
It does for rayn, as he gets angry when he's being asked dumb questions; why would he do it as town ?
??????
Why would he do it as town? There's no rhyme or reason to that, he just does, other than he's explicitly said he doesn't deal with stupidity.
Or am I misunderstanding you? Why would he do it as town - from context you mean get angry?
Holy hell, I think we might be talking around each other. I am finding your posts extremely tenuous this game, and I know I've said that at least once before.
The sentence should read "Why would he ask a dumb question ?"
Okay if this is the case, then no rayn wouldn't ask a dumb question as town, but then that takes me back to my previous post about me disagreeing with you that his questions were actually dumb.
*throws her hands up in defeat*
Maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree here.
But in the post you quoted, I said it was actually not a dumb question (= let me find the quote
On November 02 2015 18:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: [quote] That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them.
So what, do you think we are all scum or what?
No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that.
What i am trying to say that i find it suspicious you are not trying to make reads yet, and i think that is not normal for you. Especially when this is not a situation where making reads does not help anything (unlike for example if in a mafia game you think everyone who has posted so far are town).
If i compared this to a normal mafia this would be a situation where you know at least one of the people who have posted is mafia for sure but you are refusing to figure it out further.
OK bro. I don't have townreads on anyone that posted. I don't have scumreads on them either. I have suspicions on Superbia, kita and you.
This post seems somewhat contradictory (not the only post I'll comment on from Rels). Based on the sentences bolded you should in theory be scumleaning the three you listed. I'm also not clear on why you are scumreading rayn or what is jumping out at yoru scumread on rayn. I understand your argument for your initial exchange on Superbia/Xatalos is that Superbia's read on Xatalos was manufactured and I'm seeing your followup on page 16, but where was the suspicion on rayn coming from page 11?
I thought this question was scummy:
On November 02 2015 18:09 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 18:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 02 2015 18:02 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: I take it that you don't have any townreads Rels?
No.
That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them.
So what, do you think we are all scum or what?
No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that.
On November 02 2015 22:56 Half the Sky wrote: Also Rels, my post on shockey was because of him saying he's catching up, he hadn't posted jack all before that.
It indicates that you read the thread, or at least the last few posts starting page 16, when you said you were stuck on page 12. Not sure it's alignement indicative but I have no idea why you would lie about that.
I don't see how that made rayn scummy. He's coming to conclusions with his arguments and he's trying to see if you are coming to conclusions on people's alignments which is generally a town trait. And if you are struggling, why, townies can struggle with getting reads too (reference rsoultin in Drams) so naturally he's nitpicking to see your rationale.
Mm maybe I didn't explain why I thought it was scummy.
On November 02 2015 18:09 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 18:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 02 2015 18:02 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: I take it that you don't have any townreads Rels?
No.
That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them.
So what, do you think we are all scum or what?
No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that.
Oh I actually did!
The scummy isn't nitpicking specific points, which is something town!rayn always do; the problem was asking a dumb question, when I remembered him getting angry at the fact he was being ask a dumb question, so I don't know why he would do this himself. Now rayn quoted the angry post, and it was not really the same context.
Admittedly I'm finding this tenuous but after reading a few times I think I am understanding your viewpoint, you are saying that rayn isn't acting consistently between games (correct?). I don't agree this makes him scum, but I can at least see this. My only thing here - "are you mafia?" he and others have done this (example: Koshi - "how mafia are you?") out of spite/emotion, and I'm not sure such types of questions can really be taken seriously nor most people who ask them don't really expect, those questions are out of emotion imo - how can people really answer?
For example when Koshi does this he accompanies that question with something else to substantiate that emotion (reference: Void), rayn does the same thing except he splits his posts up (reference SOTW I believe).
The reason I disagreed with the question being dumb because I saw the purposes and how he reached his conclusions from the questions asked.
Am I making sense here?
You are making sense. You are wrong concerning rayn. I don't see him asking dumb questions like that. In fact, he gets angry when he's being asked dumb questions. But I agree the "do you really have 4 scumreads ?" was more of an accusation that a dumb question.
Alright leaving work. HTS, I won't vote a team you or Superbia are part of atm. Obviously that could change between now or deadline. I'm OK with Xata / kita / rayn / me.
On November 03 2015 01:43 Xatalos wrote: Uh.... Rels, I think you could have expressed yourself more clearly there. I guess you stopped considering his questions dumb in that one post... And then started townreading him? It's a bit hard to follow how everything went for you.
On November 02 2015 18:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: [quote] What i am trying to say that i find it suspicious you are not trying to make reads yet, and i think that is not normal for you. Especially when this is not a situation where making reads does not help anything (unlike for example if in a mafia game you think everyone who has posted so far are town).
If i compared this to a normal mafia this would be a situation where you know at least one of the people who have posted is mafia for sure but you are refusing to figure it out further.
OK bro. I don't have townreads on anyone that posted. I don't have scumreads on them either. I have suspicions on Superbia, kita and you.
This post seems somewhat contradictory (not the only post I'll comment on from Rels). Based on the sentences bolded you should in theory be scumleaning the three you listed. I'm also not clear on why you are scumreading rayn or what is jumping out at yoru scumread on rayn. I understand your argument for your initial exchange on Superbia/Xatalos is that Superbia's read on Xatalos was manufactured and I'm seeing your followup on page 16, but where was the suspicion on rayn coming from page 11?
I thought this question was scummy:
On November 02 2015 18:09 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 18:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 02 2015 18:02 Rels wrote: [quote] No.
That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them.
So what, do you think we are all scum or what?
No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that.
On November 02 2015 22:56 Half the Sky wrote: Also Rels, my post on shockey was because of him saying he's catching up, he hadn't posted jack all before that.
It indicates that you read the thread, or at least the last few posts starting page 16, when you said you were stuck on page 12. Not sure it's alignement indicative but I have no idea why you would lie about that.
I don't see how that made rayn scummy. He's coming to conclusions with his arguments and he's trying to see if you are coming to conclusions on people's alignments which is generally a town trait. And if you are struggling, why, townies can struggle with getting reads too (reference rsoultin in Drams) so naturally he's nitpicking to see your rationale.
Mm maybe I didn't explain why I thought it was scummy.
On November 02 2015 18:09 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 18:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 02 2015 18:02 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: I take it that you don't have any townreads Rels?
No.
That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them.
So what, do you think we are all scum or what?
No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that.
Oh I actually did!
The scummy isn't nitpicking specific points, which is something town!rayn always do; the problem was asking a dumb question, when I remembered him getting angry at the fact he was being ask a dumb question, so I don't know why he would do this himself. Now rayn quoted the angry post, and it was not really the same context.
Admittedly I'm finding this tenuous but after reading a few times I think I am understanding your viewpoint, you are saying that rayn isn't acting consistently between games (correct?). I don't agree this makes him scum, but I can at least see this. My only thing here - "are you mafia?" he and others have done this (example: Koshi - "how mafia are you?") out of spite/emotion, and I'm not sure such types of questions can really be taken seriously nor most people who ask them don't really expect, those questions are out of emotion imo - how can people really answer?
For example when Koshi does this he accompanies that question with something else to substantiate that emotion (reference: Void), rayn does the same thing except he splits his posts up (reference SOTW I believe).
The reason I disagreed with the question being dumb because I saw the purposes and how he reached his conclusions from the questions asked.
Am I making sense here?
You are making sense. You are wrong concerning rayn. I don't see him asking dumb questions like that. In fact, he gets angry when he's being asked dumb questions. But I agree the "do you really have 4 scumreads ?" was more of an accusation that a dumb question.
Yeah I saw that part, but the underlined is what I was referring to. And you said I (my read) at that time was wrong on rayn. And I also interpreted that as you including the "are you mafia" part as a dumb question. Not just even thinking about the 4 scumreads part.
Now do you see why we're going about in circles here?
LOL yeah p: I was explaining myself from before in the underlined post. I disagreed on you on the fact that rayn would ask dumb question, that's it.
On November 03 2015 01:32 ShoCkeyy wrote: Rels do you think rayn is scum or not?
He's a townlean right now. That probably won't change for the better until a mission he's part of succeeds.
Why do you think he's a town lean? Do you still want him to not be part of the first team?
Cause he's attacking people over logical things, has hard townreads and is trying to solve the game as a whole. That's his town meta. I'm OK with him being part of the first team.
On November 02 2015 17:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well thank you captain obvious. I bet alot of players would not realize that unless you said it.
You're welcome! I don't understand why you're hard townreading Superbia, who nitpicked something to death and made it the basis for a "mild" scumread.
Is this your way of saying "i agree with the townread on rayn"?
I don't understand. Maybe you quoted the wrong post bro.
Can you point out to a post of yours where you imply you read me as town for my Superbia read? Because i really feel like your filter says the opposite.
Where do I say I read you as town for your Superbia's read ?
So you're changing your stance on rayn from 3 hours ago? Wtf Rels...
On November 03 2015 01:43 Xatalos wrote: Uh.... Rels, I think you could have expressed yourself more clearly there. I guess you stopped considering his questions dumb in that one post... And then started townreading him? It's a bit hard to follow how everything went for you.
On November 03 2015 01:32 ShoCkeyy wrote: Rels do you think rayn is scum or not?
He's a townlean right now. That probably won't change for the better until a mission he's part of succeeds.
Why do you think he's a town lean? Do you still want him to not be part of the first team?
Cause he's attacking people over logical things, has hard townreads and is trying to solve the game as a whole. That's his town meta. I'm OK with him being part of the first team.
Wait what?
On November 02 2015 22:36 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 02 2015 22:25 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 22:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 02 2015 17:52 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 17:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well thank you captain obvious. I bet alot of players would not realize that unless you said it.
You're welcome! I don't understand why you're hard townreading Superbia, who nitpicked something to death and made it the basis for a "mild" scumread.
Is this your way of saying "i agree with the townread on rayn"?
I don't understand. Maybe you quoted the wrong post bro.
Can you point out to a post of yours where you imply you read me as town for my Superbia read? Because i really feel like your filter says the opposite.
Where do I say I read you as town for your Superbia's read ?
So you're changing your stance on rayn from 3 hours ago? Wtf Rels...
That post was right now.
... I dropped the dumb question stuff from 6 hours ago. I was still scumreading rayn 3 hours ago. I'm townleaning him right now.
On November 03 2015 01:43 Rels wrote: Alright leaving work. HTS, I won't vote a team you or Superbia are part of atm. Obviously that could change between now or deadline. I'm OK with Xata / kita / rayn / me.
Going to be blunt, that's not happening, Kita is definitely not happening right now, if I swap Superbia out, it's probably going to be for Xata, and right now I'm not sure of anyone else to swap me out unless I went Superbia/Xata/rayn.
*yawn*
Thankfully this doesn't need to be unanimous.
The low blow )= Hope you're not getting delayed too much See you in a few hours folks!
On November 03 2015 02:43 Half the Sky wrote: Here again.
Read Xata. Could swap Superbia out for him. I'll sit on this.
Current: raynpelikoneet/Superbia/myself
1st alt: Xata/rayn/myself 2nd alt: TBD
Going through Rels again, then Kita/Artanis/Shockey.
On November 03 2015 03:02 Half the Sky wrote: Read through Kita's filter again. Most of his questions were answered or appeared so. So many questions, so few conclusions. Where do you stand on everyone now?
And my proposed lineups?
So you went though my posts and didn't feel the need to post anything ?
On November 03 2015 03:15 ShoCkeyy wrote: I'm pretty much going to reject the xata/rayn combo wombo. I'd rather see the first team mentioned - hts,super,xata go through. At least if a sabotage happens, we definitely have a good chance of finding the mafia until the next mission.
On November 03 2015 01:13 Xatalos wrote: Well, she's clearly reading the thread and making original findings. Such as the way I inquired Superbia about his townread on me, or how you were making filler posts here and there.... She's also coming to pretty good conclusions from those findings. Hard to ask for more at this point.
On November 03 2015 01:01 Xatalos wrote: rayn has been very focused on finding townreads, something I think fits better with his town meta and is perhaps more useful in this game than finding a scum.
Superbia - Town read, though a tier below the previous ones. Questions the initial push, but seems content with him for the most part.
On November 03 2015 00:54 Xatalos wrote: Hm..... I think HtS/rayn/Superbia has a decent chance of being Spy-free. It would be worth considering at least.
On November 03 2015 01:31 Xatalos wrote: Well, I don't think Superbia's later posts were bad either. He somewhat decently explained his reason for the initial scumread on me and then townread me for a good reason too
Rels - Null, though this sounds more like townie null
On November 03 2015 00:05 Xatalos wrote: Hm.. I'd maybe put Rels into the null pile. I think his explanations somewhat made sense, and he's actively doing stuff (even if he can be active as scum, it's still easier to be a little less active than that as scum). Otherwise it seemed generally okay.
kitaman27 - Scum read for lack of interaction at start of the game. Hasn't elaborated much about me since then.
From his position knowing that there are three anti-town players, it seems like he isn't really suspicious of anyone aside from me, especially considering that he has so many posts already. I know that I'm probably biased considering that I'm the only one he seems to think is a spy, but that doesn't seem very satisfactory to me. He seems quite content with the status quo.
On November 02 2015 23:52 Xatalos wrote: Well, tbh I might take rayn and Superbia with me as well right now. Not because they're super town, but because there aren't that many good options. I hope that situation fixes itself.
I know from my perspective, I wouldn't be so willing to pass along the nominations if I don't have a great idea of where the bad guys might be. Right now it seems more like a process of elimination based on the lack of posts from the null players. Considering we can have several more cycles to get that part sorted out, I'm concerned about his willingness to rush things along so long as he is included in the nomination.
I still don't think I've spotted an alternative to super/xat that I'd be satisfied with yet though. It seems that I have the opposite problem than xat. Most people are coming off as untrustworthy/null, rather than the other way around
Pretty cool find! Xatalos definitely looked for scumreads in the vanilla game.
On November 02 2015 23:15 ShoCkeyy wrote: I haven't finished reading the thread, but since I did play with rayn last game where he was mafia and this really brings up his current meta:
On November 02 2015 19:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay i gotta get off for some time. I am starting to get angry at this.
He seriously starts to get "angry" when things do not go his way.
On November 02 2015 19:15 Rels wrote: rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.
This is also my best suggestion as well.
Which game are you referring to?
I think he can get plenty angry as town too lol
He can get angry as town too, haven't never seen him play as town. I'm just basing it off my previous game with him, which is why I rather not have him on the first mission.
Initially I found this post a bit scummy. You acknowledge Xata's point that rayn can display similar behavior as both mafia and town, yet you still choose to conclude mafia while stating that you haven't played with him as town. If you are making a meta read, yet don't put in effort to understand the town meta, then you're relying on a single data point, rather than a trend.
Otherwise, I don't see a ton that stands out one way or the other. I can sympathize with not having a ton of strong town reads and not wanting to come to conclusions about posts that really don't seem to matter, though it's difficult to come to an opinion on you with only two main talking points so far. Rels stuff seems reasonable, but it would be nice to see you jump in on more topics as time goes on. I'd expect to hopefully see a few more confident reads in the next day or two.
On November 03 2015 05:15 Xatalos wrote: Well kita, you even quoted the reason for my focus... That finding town in this game might be more useful than finding scum. Of course figuring out the Spies is always useful, but it'll get easier with vote analysis and mission results, whereas here the main goal is to figure out who to send on a mission. At least in IRL Resistance we mostly focused on establishing "clear" or at least semi-clear town.
I read this post maybe 10 times and I have no idea if it makes sense from a town perspective. It kinda does, but finding town goes in hand with finding scums. Don't know why someone would do almost exclusively one and not the other before the first mission.
On November 03 2015 06:30 Superbia wrote: Rels have you even read my post explain the whole Xat thing? Every single point you're bringing up (as far as I'm reading - p16) seems to be your own weird interpretation on things and I am really disliking it.
This post in particular is incredibly loaded with your own interpretation, and it really feels like you're driving an agenda here (i.e. to scum-push me):
On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance.
...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push.
Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far.
I find this super convenient. Superbia started by scumreading Xata for the nightmare thing, which is understandable. Then there was the "is it still nightmarish ?" "kinda" "now that you've said it's not nightmarish anymore ..." scumread which was super weird. And now that rayn thinks Xata is town for meta, suddenly Xata is town for Superbia too, and I have TMI on him.
Let's break this apart into two pieces:
1. My secondary post on the whole nightmare-ish part is putting into words what I had already expected to have been inside Xatalos' head- that he did not believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. I have explained this.
2. Your TMI has nothing to do with my read on Xatalos whatsoever. The blatant fucking fact is that you are evaluating me for interactions with Xatalos without giving a read on Xatalos. What if he's mafia? Does that change anything for your read on me?
Side note. You exclaim that me beginning to lean town on Xatalos is super convient. In what way? If I am scum, what am I achieving here? Keep in mind that you still have no read on Xatalos (right?). So in what way is me, calling a null for you, super convenient?
Rels, kindly answer the bolded questions and the following: - Please explain, in detail, how what you perceived to be my push on Xatalos makes me mafia. - How was my explanation on the matter inadequate? What did not make sense?
I think there was something else I wanted to ask but I forgot. Maybe I'll remember it later.
I've already discarded the "you town read on Xatalos is convenient" stuff, it wasn't scum indicative. Your read on Xatalos is weird because it is not based on logic. Xatalos is saying it's kinda nightmarish to be scum => you say he said the inverse. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective. It makes sense from a scum perspective that decided to scumread Xatalos, and is twisting things to keep it.
On November 03 2015 04:50 kitaman27 wrote: I don't think I'm comfortable with Xatalos just yet.
Here is his read list from what I gathered. Basically all town and null reads.
Xatalos - Obviously town reads himself
Half the Sky - Strong town read
On November 03 2015 01:13 Xatalos wrote: Well, she's clearly reading the thread and making original findings. Such as the way I inquired Superbia about his townread on me, or how you were making filler posts here and there.... She's also coming to pretty good conclusions from those findings. Hard to ask for more at this point.
raynpelikoneet - Strong town read
On November 03 2015 01:01 Xatalos wrote: rayn has been very focused on finding townreads, something I think fits better with his town meta and is perhaps more useful in this game than finding a scum.
Superbia - Town read, though a tier below the previous ones. Questions the initial push, but seems content with him for the most part.
On November 03 2015 00:54 Xatalos wrote: Hm..... I think HtS/rayn/Superbia has a decent chance of being Spy-free. It would be worth considering at least.
On November 03 2015 01:31 Xatalos wrote: Well, I don't think Superbia's later posts were bad either. He somewhat decently explained his reason for the initial scumread on me and then townread me for a good reason too
Rels - Null, though this sounds more like townie null
On November 03 2015 00:05 Xatalos wrote: Hm.. I'd maybe put Rels into the null pile. I think his explanations somewhat made sense, and he's actively doing stuff (even if he can be active as scum, it's still easier to be a little less active than that as scum). Otherwise it seemed generally okay.
kitaman27 - Scum read for lack of interaction at start of the game. Hasn't elaborated much about me since then.
From his position knowing that there are three anti-town players, it seems like he isn't really suspicious of anyone aside from me, especially considering that he has so many posts already. I know that I'm probably biased considering that I'm the only one he seems to think is a spy, but that doesn't seem very satisfactory to me. He seems quite content with the status quo.
On November 02 2015 23:52 Xatalos wrote: Well, tbh I might take rayn and Superbia with me as well right now. Not because they're super town, but because there aren't that many good options. I hope that situation fixes itself.
I know from my perspective, I wouldn't be so willing to pass along the nominations if I don't have a great idea of where the bad guys might be. Right now it seems more like a process of elimination based on the lack of posts from the null players. Considering we can have several more cycles to get that part sorted out, I'm concerned about his willingness to rush things along so long as he is included in the nomination.
I still don't think I've spotted an alternative to super/xat that I'd be satisfied with yet though. It seems that I have the opposite problem than xat. Most people are coming off as untrustworthy/null, rather than the other way around
Pretty cool find! Xatalos definitely looked for scumreads in the vanilla game.
I just find it weird that when I throw suspicion on rayn to try and get him to engage with me over rels and Xatalos was the one to come in and tell me that my thought on rayn could be wrong [http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497443-resistance-v-section-31?page=20#383]. Rayn still hadn't engage with me until I specifically quoted him and asked him why [http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497443-resistance-v-section-31?page=20#396].
This is one of the main factors why I don't like the rayn/xata combo wombo, it looks similar to the way they both engaged with Rels.
I'm pretty sure HTS was the first one to discard your angry meta stuff.
On November 02 2015 23:15 ShoCkeyy wrote: I haven't finished reading the thread, but since I did play with rayn last game where he was mafia and this really brings up his current meta:
On November 02 2015 19:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay i gotta get off for some time. I am starting to get angry at this.
He seriously starts to get "angry" when things do not go his way.
On November 02 2015 19:15 Rels wrote: rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.
This is also my best suggestion as well.
I know I said elsewhere, but rayn has done this as town (reference Drams and a host of other games lol), if rayn is indeed a spy, it's not for this. I did list my reasons for thinking rayn as town, if you dispute those, do let me know.
Also I'm not sure you can reasonably meta rayn from one game (Himalayas if I recall right?) but your doing so is NAI.
On November 03 2015 04:50 kitaman27 wrote: I don't think I'm comfortable with Xatalos just yet.
Here is his read list from what I gathered. Basically all town and null reads.
Xatalos - Obviously town reads himself
Half the Sky - Strong town read
On November 03 2015 01:13 Xatalos wrote: Well, she's clearly reading the thread and making original findings. Such as the way I inquired Superbia about his townread on me, or how you were making filler posts here and there.... She's also coming to pretty good conclusions from those findings. Hard to ask for more at this point.
raynpelikoneet - Strong town read
On November 03 2015 01:01 Xatalos wrote: rayn has been very focused on finding townreads, something I think fits better with his town meta and is perhaps more useful in this game than finding a scum.
Superbia - Town read, though a tier below the previous ones. Questions the initial push, but seems content with him for the most part.
On November 03 2015 00:54 Xatalos wrote: Hm..... I think HtS/rayn/Superbia has a decent chance of being Spy-free. It would be worth considering at least.
On November 03 2015 01:31 Xatalos wrote: Well, I don't think Superbia's later posts were bad either. He somewhat decently explained his reason for the initial scumread on me and then townread me for a good reason too
Rels - Null, though this sounds more like townie null
On November 03 2015 00:05 Xatalos wrote: Hm.. I'd maybe put Rels into the null pile. I think his explanations somewhat made sense, and he's actively doing stuff (even if he can be active as scum, it's still easier to be a little less active than that as scum). Otherwise it seemed generally okay.
kitaman27 - Scum read for lack of interaction at start of the game. Hasn't elaborated much about me since then.
From his position knowing that there are three anti-town players, it seems like he isn't really suspicious of anyone aside from me, especially considering that he has so many posts already. I know that I'm probably biased considering that I'm the only one he seems to think is a spy, but that doesn't seem very satisfactory to me. He seems quite content with the status quo.
On November 02 2015 23:52 Xatalos wrote: Well, tbh I might take rayn and Superbia with me as well right now. Not because they're super town, but because there aren't that many good options. I hope that situation fixes itself.
I know from my perspective, I wouldn't be so willing to pass along the nominations if I don't have a great idea of where the bad guys might be. Right now it seems more like a process of elimination based on the lack of posts from the null players. Considering we can have several more cycles to get that part sorted out, I'm concerned about his willingness to rush things along so long as he is included in the nomination.
I still don't think I've spotted an alternative to super/xat that I'd be satisfied with yet though. It seems that I have the opposite problem than xat. Most people are coming off as untrustworthy/null, rather than the other way around
Pretty cool find! Xatalos definitely looked for scumreads in the vanilla game.
I just find it weird that when I throw suspicion on rayn to try and get him to engage with me over rels and Xatalos was the one to come in and tell me that my thought on rayn could be wrong [http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497443-resistance-v-section-31?page=20#383]. Rayn still hadn't engage with me until I specifically quoted him and asked him why [http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497443-resistance-v-section-31?page=20#396].
This is one of the main factors why I don't like the rayn/xata combo wombo, it looks similar to the way they both engaged with Rels.
I'm pretty sure HTS was the first one to discard your angry meta stuff.
On November 02 2015 23:20 Half the Sky wrote:
On November 02 2015 23:15 ShoCkeyy wrote: I haven't finished reading the thread, but since I did play with rayn last game where he was mafia and this really brings up his current meta:
On November 02 2015 19:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay i gotta get off for some time. I am starting to get angry at this.
He seriously starts to get "angry" when things do not go his way.
On November 02 2015 19:15 Rels wrote: rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.
This is also my best suggestion as well.
I know I said elsewhere, but rayn has done this as town (reference Drams and a host of other games lol), if rayn is indeed a spy, it's not for this. I did list my reasons for thinking rayn as town, if you dispute those, do let me know.
Also I'm not sure you can reasonably meta rayn from one game (Himalayas if I recall right?) but your doing so is NAI.
You obviously don't realize I'm not talking about the angry meta stuff anymore.
No I didn't. Let me quote the posts you're talking about.
On November 02 2015 23:15 ShoCkeyy wrote: I haven't finished reading the thread, but since I did play with rayn last game where he was mafia and this really brings up his current meta:
On November 02 2015 19:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay i gotta get off for some time. I am starting to get angry at this.
He seriously starts to get "angry" when things do not go his way.
On November 02 2015 19:15 Rels wrote: rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.
This is also my best suggestion as well.
Which game are you referring to?
I think he can get plenty angry as town too lol
He can get angry as town too, haven't never seen him play as town. I'm just basing it off my previous game with him, which is why I rather not have him on the first mission.
On November 02 2015 18:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: kitaman because he is talking about setup which is a big no-no in this game unless you are scum and want to give advice to your teammates, like "this is something i would not recommend to do".
Well the goal was indeed to give advice for my teammates. You don't need to automatically conclude that the advice was spy motivated. 36% success to 18% success is a significant drop off.
The problem is that is actually bad advice.
How is that bad advice?...
So you're saying rayn didn't defend himself from your read, and didn't even talk to you until you quoted a post of him. But Xatalos did the defending for him. How is rayn not talking to you scum indicative ? I understand how Xata jumping to defend rayn could be scum indicative. But if you think that, what do you think of HTS also defending him in that situation ? Lastly, I don't agree with him saying town should elect themselves in a team where they are leader.
On November 02 2015 23:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hey Rels why do you actually think i am town?
I'm not sure you are. You're attacking people over small logical things and you are thinking about the game as a whole; that is town indicative, but I know you can replicate that as town; at least that what you and several other people claimed before.
So why did you actually change my read in the first place? That is what i have been doing all game long, playing to my town meta.
Why did you go from sure scum to sure town? And now not so sure town?
I'm pretty sure it's clear from my filter. If it's not, then it's not.
On November 03 2015 14:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels why do you want to put kitaman into the team over me? Do you understand the fact that if he is scum calling Superbia scum at the time he did is the only possible play he can make in case HtS is town.
Well, if Superbia is scum it's also the right call ... why are you still townreading him ? The guy has been bathing for 10 hours.
On November 03 2015 03:02 Half the Sky wrote: Read through Kita's filter again. Most of his questions were answered or appeared so. So many questions, so few conclusions. Where do you stand on everyone now?
And my proposed lineups?
So you went though my posts and didn't feel the need to post anything ?
On November 03 2015 01:33 Rels wrote: OK. What do you think of Superbia's TMI accusation ? [Added just now: you said multiple times you would review it, and either you didn't or I missed it.]
On November 03 2015 04:50 kitaman27 wrote: I don't think I'm comfortable with Xatalos just yet.
Here is his read list from what I gathered. Basically all town and null reads.
Xatalos - Obviously town reads himself
Half the Sky - Strong town read
On November 03 2015 01:13 Xatalos wrote: Well, she's clearly reading the thread and making original findings. Such as the way I inquired Superbia about his townread on me, or how you were making filler posts here and there.... She's also coming to pretty good conclusions from those findings. Hard to ask for more at this point.
raynpelikoneet - Strong town read
On November 03 2015 01:01 Xatalos wrote: rayn has been very focused on finding townreads, something I think fits better with his town meta and is perhaps more useful in this game than finding a scum.
Superbia - Town read, though a tier below the previous ones. Questions the initial push, but seems content with him for the most part.
On November 03 2015 00:54 Xatalos wrote: Hm..... I think HtS/rayn/Superbia has a decent chance of being Spy-free. It would be worth considering at least.
On November 03 2015 01:31 Xatalos wrote: Well, I don't think Superbia's later posts were bad either. He somewhat decently explained his reason for the initial scumread on me and then townread me for a good reason too
Rels - Null, though this sounds more like townie null
On November 03 2015 00:05 Xatalos wrote: Hm.. I'd maybe put Rels into the null pile. I think his explanations somewhat made sense, and he's actively doing stuff (even if he can be active as scum, it's still easier to be a little less active than that as scum). Otherwise it seemed generally okay.
kitaman27 - Scum read for lack of interaction at start of the game. Hasn't elaborated much about me since then.
From his position knowing that there are three anti-town players, it seems like he isn't really suspicious of anyone aside from me, especially considering that he has so many posts already. I know that I'm probably biased considering that I'm the only one he seems to think is a spy, but that doesn't seem very satisfactory to me. He seems quite content with the status quo.
On November 02 2015 23:52 Xatalos wrote: Well, tbh I might take rayn and Superbia with me as well right now. Not because they're super town, but because there aren't that many good options. I hope that situation fixes itself.
I know from my perspective, I wouldn't be so willing to pass along the nominations if I don't have a great idea of where the bad guys might be. Right now it seems more like a process of elimination based on the lack of posts from the null players. Considering we can have several more cycles to get that part sorted out, I'm concerned about his willingness to rush things along so long as he is included in the nomination.
I still don't think I've spotted an alternative to super/xat that I'd be satisfied with yet though. It seems that I have the opposite problem than xat. Most people are coming off as untrustworthy/null, rather than the other way around
Pretty cool find! Xatalos definitely looked for scumreads in the vanilla game.
I just find it weird that when I throw suspicion on rayn to try and get him to engage with me over rels and Xatalos was the one to come in and tell me that my thought on rayn could be wrong [http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497443-resistance-v-section-31?page=20#383]. Rayn still hadn't engage with me until I specifically quoted him and asked him why [http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497443-resistance-v-section-31?page=20#396].
This is one of the main factors why I don't like the rayn/xata combo wombo, it looks similar to the way they both engaged with Rels.
I'm pretty sure HTS was the first one to discard your angry meta stuff.
On November 02 2015 23:20 Half the Sky wrote:
On November 02 2015 23:15 ShoCkeyy wrote: I haven't finished reading the thread, but since I did play with rayn last game where he was mafia and this really brings up his current meta:
On November 02 2015 19:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay i gotta get off for some time. I am starting to get angry at this.
He seriously starts to get "angry" when things do not go his way.
On November 02 2015 19:15 Rels wrote: rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.
This is also my best suggestion as well.
I know I said elsewhere, but rayn has done this as town (reference Drams and a host of other games lol), if rayn is indeed a spy, it's not for this. I did list my reasons for thinking rayn as town, if you dispute those, do let me know.
Also I'm not sure you can reasonably meta rayn from one game (Himalayas if I recall right?) but your doing so is NAI.
You obviously don't realize I'm not talking about the angry meta stuff anymore.
No I didn't. Let me quote the posts you're talking about.
On November 02 2015 23:15 ShoCkeyy wrote: I haven't finished reading the thread, but since I did play with rayn last game where he was mafia and this really brings up his current meta:
On November 02 2015 19:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay i gotta get off for some time. I am starting to get angry at this.
He seriously starts to get "angry" when things do not go his way.
On November 02 2015 19:15 Rels wrote: rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.
This is also my best suggestion as well.
Which game are you referring to?
I think he can get plenty angry as town too lol
He can get angry as town too, haven't never seen him play as town. I'm just basing it off my previous game with him, which is why I rather not have him on the first mission.
On November 02 2015 18:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: kitaman because he is talking about setup which is a big no-no in this game unless you are scum and want to give advice to your teammates, like "this is something i would not recommend to do".
Well the goal was indeed to give advice for my teammates. You don't need to automatically conclude that the advice was spy motivated. 36% success to 18% success is a significant drop off.
The problem is that is actually bad advice.
How is that bad advice?...
So you're saying rayn didn't defend himself from your read, and didn't even talk to you until you quoted a post of him. But Xatalos did the defending for him. How is rayn not talking to you scum indicative ? I understand how Xata jumping to defend rayn could be scum indicative. But if you think that, what do you think of HTS also defending him in that situation ? Lastly, I don't agree with him saying town should elect themselves in a team where they are leader.
On November 03 2015 00:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: Did anyone actually look at the game and why i got mad there?
Yeah you messed up the vote timing I think? Well, you basically lost because of it, so I can understand getting angry in that situation.
yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right?
Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game.
Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia.
Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.".
Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went.
You mean he could be trying to make you ragequit or something?
I thought this would have get answered later, apparently not; rayn I would love an answer to that.
@Anyone I would love to have your take on this Xatalos' post
On November 03 2015 05:15 Xatalos wrote: Well kita, you even quoted the reason for my focus... That finding town in this game might be more useful than finding scum. Of course figuring out the Spies is always useful, but it'll get easier with vote analysis and mission results, whereas here the main goal is to figure out who to send on a mission. At least in IRL Resistance we mostly focused on establishing "clear" or at least semi-clear town.
I read this post maybe 10 times and I have no idea if it makes sense from a town perspective. It kinda does, but finding town goes in hand with finding scums. Don't know why someone would do almost exclusively one and not the other before the first mission.
On November 03 2015 00:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: Did anyone actually look at the game and why i got mad there?
Yeah you messed up the vote timing I think? Well, you basically lost because of it, so I can understand getting angry in that situation.
yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right?
Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game.
Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia.
Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.".
Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went.
That was before the question ... so you really meant that. You know how I play as scum; I wouldn't try to win by making you ragequit / modkilled / whatever, 'cause that wouldn't be a win.
On November 03 2015 00:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: Did anyone actually look at the game and why i got mad there?
Yeah you messed up the vote timing I think? Well, you basically lost because of it, so I can understand getting angry in that situation.
yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right?
Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game.
Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia.
Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.".
Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went.
That was before the question ... so you really meant that. You know how I play as scum; I wouldn't try to win by making you ragequit / modkilled / whatever, 'cause that wouldn't be a win.
This bothers me very much rayn. How could you think that. You scumread me (partly) for "Rels scumreads me for a dumb meta reason".
On November 03 2015 00:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: Did anyone actually look at the game and why i got mad there?
Yeah you messed up the vote timing I think? Well, you basically lost because of it, so I can understand getting angry in that situation.
yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right?
Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game.
Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia.
Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.".
Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went.
That was before the question ... so you really meant that. You know how I play as scum; I wouldn't try to win by making you ragequit / modkilled / whatever, 'cause that wouldn't be a win.
This bothers me very much rayn. How could you think that. You scumread me (partly) for "Rels scumreads me for a dumb meta reason". You know what; I think this is a very dumb meta reason (me trying to make you ragequit).
You really think, like really think, that ShoCkeyy is more likely to be town then i am or Xatalos is? I cannot believe that sorry.
Yes. I really think that. You can guess I really think that because I wrote it in my list post. Xatalos is not looking for scums. You sound emotionless. That's my problem with you two. If you're town, I hope you're OK.
Yeah you messed up the vote timing I think? Well, you basically lost because of it, so I can understand getting angry in that situation.
yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right?
Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game.
Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia.
Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.".
Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went.
That was before the question ... so you really meant that. You know how I play as scum; I wouldn't try to win by making you ragequit / modkilled / whatever, 'cause that wouldn't be a win.
This bothers me very much rayn. How could you think that. You scumread me (partly) for "Rels scumreads me for a dumb meta reason". You know what; I think this is a very dumb meta reason (me trying to make you ragequit).
I have never called you mafia because of it. I am saying you could do that as scum, as kitaman was basically arguing the other way around. I am not saying it makes you scum.
L2R.
You cannot think that of my scum play. Calling me mafia or not for it, it doesn't matter; I wouldn't try to make you ragequit as scum. On the other hand, I have no idea why the fuck kitaman would know anything from my scum play. Where did he say that ?
You really think, like really think, that ShoCkeyy is more likely to be town then i am or Xatalos is? I cannot believe that sorry.
Yes. I really think that. You can guess I really think that because I wrote it in my list post. Xatalos is not looking for scums. You sound emotionless. That's my problem with you two. If you're town, I hope you're OK.
Here we go again. Every single time i try to play "better" and be as reasonable towards everyone in the game i get this bullshit scumread of being emotionless. Guess i need to just yell "fuck you you piece of shit" to everyone in every game. Fucking weak Rels, fucking weak.
Tell me this, who are kitaman's scumreads?
You should ask him. p: From memory, Superbia, Xatalos, maybe HTS, maybe Arta.
Yeah you messed up the vote timing I think? Well, you basically lost because of it, so I can understand getting angry in that situation.
yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right?
Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game.
Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia.
Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.".
Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went.
That was before the question ... so you really meant that. You know how I play as scum; I wouldn't try to win by making you ragequit / modkilled / whatever, 'cause that wouldn't be a win.
This bothers me very much rayn. How could you think that. You scumread me (partly) for "Rels scumreads me for a dumb meta reason". You know what; I think this is a very dumb meta reason (me trying to make you ragequit).
I have never called you mafia because of it. I am saying you could do that as scum, as kitaman was basically arguing the other way around.
On November 03 2015 22:46 ShoCkeyy wrote: I gathered he town read you, HtS, Super... and this was posted 10 pages ago, he has way more reads than you do. You obviously think everyone else is town other than rels, kita and I.
I don't even have my full scum team list yet, I don't think anybody has a full scum team list yet, but some how you already do which further fuels my suspicion against you.
On November 03 2015 00:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: [quote] yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right?
Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game.
Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia.
Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.".
Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went.
That was before the question ... so you really meant that. You know how I play as scum; I wouldn't try to win by making you ragequit / modkilled / whatever, 'cause that wouldn't be a win.
This bothers me very much rayn. How could you think that. You scumread me (partly) for "Rels scumreads me for a dumb meta reason". You know what; I think this is a very dumb meta reason (me trying to make you ragequit).
I have never called you mafia because of it. I am saying you could do that as scum, as kitaman was basically arguing the other way around.
A part of HTS' play that makes no sense coming from town
HTS was willing to nominate a team without herself yesterday. She didn't do it in the end, but she mentionned it multiple times. Furthermore, she recently said to Xatalos (the next leader in line) that she was OK not being part of his team if he found someone else.
This makes no sense from a town perspective for three reasons:
1. You're only 100% sure of your alignment in this game. To form a 3-men team you're confident in, having one 100% confirmed townie in it is extremely rassuring. Proof: kita's maths about whether town leaders should include themselves in their team or not. At random, you go from 36% success rate to 18%. Now you won't pick your team at random; but it makes no sense to consider removing yourself from your team, or suggesting to not be part of a team, since the chances of the team succeeding goes up by a lot.
2. If you're scum, the team will fail. So it makes sense to consider removing yourself from your own team if you're scum, 'cause that seems logical to you, even if you pretend being town in thread.
3. Lastly, it means HTS is more concerned about having a team being accepted than having a team succeeding. She wants to be read as town, and for that she's OK submitting a team that is agreed upon by the thread sentiment, even if that means she is not part of the team herself. For an example of this, I bolded a particular sentence in the third quote below.
I actually thought rayn was baiting HTS to do it yesterday in this post:
On November 02 2015 21:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think you should try to find two townreads besides Superbia if you think that's possible when you have read everything closely.
But that wasn't the case.
Sources:
On November 03 2015 00:46 Half the Sky wrote: I'm looking at a three-hour delay for my flight home. Fuck this weather.
That is going to put me close to deadline, so I am going to keep my primary submission to what it is now, and then have an alternate submission up ASAP so you people can discuss it before and then I will state what I'm going to do before I get on the plane. If I had to pull myself off the team, it'd be right now - Xata/rayn/Superbia.
I'm feeling better about Xata but not as good as with Super/rayn and I don't believe sicklucker and Artanis will bleed town for me in time for deadline or even before I leave Berlin, if I even do.
Also I don't feel Rels' TMI argument on superbia is valid, but will double check the rest of his followup.
On November 03 2015 01:43 Rels wrote: Alright leaving work. HTS, I won't vote a team you or Superbia are part of atm. Obviously that could change between now or deadline. I'm OK with Xata / kita / rayn / me.
Going to be blunt, that's not happening, Kita is definitely not happening right now, if I swap Superbia out, it's probably going to be for Xata, and right now I'm not sure of anyone else to swap me out unless I went Superbia/Xata/rayn.
*yawn*
Thankfully this doesn't need to be unanimous. What is concerning is the lack of reads from a lot of people (inactives aside) because other than Rels saying he won't vote for certain teams, not knowing what teams are going to pass makes this doubly difficult.
I know where rayn, Rels and Xata stand, kita to a lesser extent, the rest....shit. I'm hoping as the day wears on, we'll see more activity from the NA-based players (or at least I can resolve Kita). If I'm home on time, I should have at least 30m to see if I last minute swap someone.
On November 03 2015 06:49 Half the Sky wrote: ##nominate: kitaman27, raynpelikoneet, Half the Sky
Still on my way home everyone.
So you view yourself, me, rayn, super, and xatalos as trustworthy? Not a lot of wiggle room there with the nulls. Kinda similar to what had me concerned with xata earlier.
Or did something that xata or super post move them over to your spy list?
I don't mind this nomination as much as the other two....but I'd be much more satisfied with it coming back up for vote later on in the first cycle so I'd have a better grasp on you and rayn. Still not thrilled about accepting a team 24 hours into the game.
Right now, I'm most certain on you, rayn, superbia. Less so on Xatalos compared to you three but I don't think he's a spy. The three of you - reads are partially based on meta but still conducive to how you have still played this game so far.
For tactical reasons I could swap myself out but seeing as there is only one person disputing my inclusion on the team (who I'm not townreading anyways), it makes more sense to keep myself on the team with my two most certain townreads.
Also agreed on the 24h thing, IRL really cut into my playing time, but it is what it is.
Right before deadline + thread sentiment excuse:
On November 03 2015 07:57 Half the Sky wrote: 4 mins left.
Could pull myself off and go with Rayn/Superbia/Kita.
But there are too many people not digging at least one of these as town.
Talking about Xatalos' team:
On November 03 2015 23:01 Half the Sky wrote: So Xatalos, you're after me, assuming this team is a write-off (seeing as only one person is voting to pass it), I'd say nominate yourself and rayn for sure. I'd also say to vote me, but if you don't trust me, then I'd say see what happens the rest of this cycle and then tomorrow (when the torch passes to you) and then make the decision.
I know where rayn is coming from with Artanis/SL, but I agree with you that Artanis could be either alignment and sicklucker saying you're spy for omgus-like reasons....I don't know about the latter.
On November 03 2015 23:09 Xatalos wrote: But rayn gave good reasons for proposing the full-scum (2/3 scum) team - lots of pressure on the whole team - and there are additional reasons having to do with miscommunications within the scumteam and such, so it might be better to propose that next.
Like seriously...why would you support this idea?
"Lets purposely fail the most important mission because maybe it well help us pass missions later"
Does nobody else see the problem here?
Yes of course it's a dumb thing to do. I think you should have not say anything and waited to see what rayn would have done tomorrow though.
On November 04 2015 01:33 Xatalos wrote: Rels, could you expand on your Kita/shockey townreads?
One sentence each since I'm leaving in a few minutes: Kita makes sense and bring good points. He did that as scum too in a game where he wrecked us; but contrary to that, he's attacking people that are townread by a majority of the town: Superbia and you at the time, rayn just now. Shockey, I can't see any scum motivation to play the way he does; having odd reads that completely differs from the thread sentiment, and defending them to the point of getting scumread for it.
On November 04 2015 01:28 Rels wrote: A part of HTS' play that makes no sense coming from town
HTS was willing to nominate a team without herself yesterday. She didn't do it in the end, but she mentionned it multiple times. Furthermore, she recently said to Xatalos (the next leader in line) that she was OK not being part of his team if he found someone else.
This makes no sense from a town perspective for three reasons:
1. You're only 100% sure of your alignment in this game. To form a 3-men team you're confident in, having one 100% confirmed townie in it is extremely rassuring. Proof: kita's maths about whether town leaders should include themselves in their team or not. At random, you go from 36% success rate to 18%. Now you won't pick your team at random; but it makes no sense to consider removing yourself from your team, or suggesting to not be part of a team, since the chances of the team succeeding goes up by a lot.
2. If you're scum, the team will fail. So it makes sense to consider removing yourself from your own team if you're scum, 'cause that seems logical to you, even if you pretend being town in thread.
3. Lastly, it means HTS is more concerned about having a team being accepted than having a team succeeding. She wants to be read as town, and for that she's OK submitting a team that is agreed upon by the thread sentiment, even if that means she is not part of the team herself. For an example of this, I bolded a particular sentence in the third quote below.
I actually thought rayn was baiting HTS to do it yesterday in this post:
On November 02 2015 21:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think you should try to find two townreads besides Superbia if you think that's possible when you have read everything closely.
But that wasn't the case.
Sources:
On November 03 2015 00:46 Half the Sky wrote: I'm looking at a three-hour delay for my flight home. Fuck this weather.
That is going to put me close to deadline, so I am going to keep my primary submission to what it is now, and then have an alternate submission up ASAP so you people can discuss it before and then I will state what I'm going to do before I get on the plane. If I had to pull myself off the team, it'd be right now - Xata/rayn/Superbia.
I'm feeling better about Xata but not as good as with Super/rayn and I don't believe sicklucker and Artanis will bleed town for me in time for deadline or even before I leave Berlin, if I even do.
Also I don't feel Rels' TMI argument on superbia is valid, but will double check the rest of his followup.
On November 03 2015 01:50 Half the Sky wrote:
On November 03 2015 01:43 Rels wrote: Alright leaving work. HTS, I won't vote a team you or Superbia are part of atm. Obviously that could change between now or deadline. I'm OK with Xata / kita / rayn / me.
Going to be blunt, that's not happening, Kita is definitely not happening right now, if I swap Superbia out, it's probably going to be for Xata, and right now I'm not sure of anyone else to swap me out unless I went Superbia/Xata/rayn.
*yawn*
Thankfully this doesn't need to be unanimous. What is concerning is the lack of reads from a lot of people (inactives aside) because other than Rels saying he won't vote for certain teams, not knowing what teams are going to pass makes this doubly difficult.
I know where rayn, Rels and Xata stand, kita to a lesser extent, the rest....shit. I'm hoping as the day wears on, we'll see more activity from the NA-based players (or at least I can resolve Kita). If I'm home on time, I should have at least 30m to see if I last minute swap someone.
On November 03 2015 07:02 Half the Sky wrote:
On November 03 2015 06:56 kitaman27 wrote:
On November 03 2015 06:49 Half the Sky wrote: ##nominate: kitaman27, raynpelikoneet, Half the Sky
Still on my way home everyone.
So you view yourself, me, rayn, super, and xatalos as trustworthy? Not a lot of wiggle room there with the nulls. Kinda similar to what had me concerned with xata earlier.
Or did something that xata or super post move them over to your spy list?
I don't mind this nomination as much as the other two....but I'd be much more satisfied with it coming back up for vote later on in the first cycle so I'd have a better grasp on you and rayn. Still not thrilled about accepting a team 24 hours into the game.
Right now, I'm most certain on you, rayn, superbia. Less so on Xatalos compared to you three but I don't think he's a spy. The three of you - reads are partially based on meta but still conducive to how you have still played this game so far.
For tactical reasons I could swap myself out but seeing as there is only one person disputing my inclusion on the team (who I'm not townreading anyways), it makes more sense to keep myself on the team with my two most certain townreads.
Also agreed on the 24h thing, IRL really cut into my playing time, but it is what it is.
Right before deadline + thread sentiment excuse:
On November 03 2015 07:57 Half the Sky wrote: 4 mins left.
Could pull myself off and go with Rayn/Superbia/Kita.
But there are too many people not digging at least one of these as town.
Talking about Xatalos' team:
On November 03 2015 23:01 Half the Sky wrote: So Xatalos, you're after me, assuming this team is a write-off (seeing as only one person is voting to pass it), I'd say nominate yourself and rayn for sure. I'd also say to vote me, but if you don't trust me, then I'd say see what happens the rest of this cycle and then tomorrow (when the torch passes to you) and then make the decision.
I know where rayn is coming from with Artanis/SL, but I agree with you that Artanis could be either alignment and sicklucker saying you're spy for omgus-like reasons....I don't know about the latter.
I guess she's really focused on looking good... Don't you think it could be just town wanting to be townread? Well, that kind of contradicts the way she's also okay with not being on missions >.> Then why try so hard to look good?
Good to see you're answering yourself. p: You're really the opposite of Shockey; each time someone brings a point on someone else, you accept it and change your read of that person. You really are following the thread sentiment to the letter. Can I have a quick read list post ?
On November 04 2015 01:55 Half the Sky wrote: Rels, that has to be one of the worst posts I've ever read in my time on TL mafia. I normally don't make those types of statements but what you've said shows you've never played Resistance before, or you're trying to very seriously reach for a way to scumread me.
What a over defensive reaction.
You're contradicting yourself in the same post:
On November 04 2015 01:55 Half the Sky wrote: If you're town, which I am, and there's a group that doesn't trust you on the team, the only way you're going to show that you are town or even get people to remotely trust you is to go scumhunting and put up three people that you've done some reliable legwork on, show you don't have an agenda as to who you are putting up. There's nothing wrong with swapping yourself out for people that are more universally townread provided you have a basis for doing so. If you cannot sell yourself for being on the team for whatever reason or if people are less sure of you as opposed to others then that is one of a few arguments to not have yourself on a team. If I want to test out a group of people (not the case here as it's the first mission) to try and PoE someone that's another reason to leave yourself off since you know what you are.
On November 04 2015 01:55 Half the Sky wrote: My concern isn't really looking good - I've said at least twice now that if my team fails, big deal. My concern is being transparent enough to be read as town and if I can't get on teams, make sure the right people do. *yawn*
On November 04 2015 01:55 Half the Sky wrote: Maybe you have never played Resistance, but wow, I didn't think you'd bottom out like that, but somehow you managed to prove me wrong.
And now you had fucking expectations for me ? LOL
On November 04 2015 01:55 Half the Sky wrote: Even rayn said earlier that there are situations you don't want to have yourself on the team so I'm surprised (unless I missed it) you haven't jumped on that point at the time it was made.
"You scumread for that when you don't scumread THAT guy for that!" is a classic scum defense. And, sorry, I did.
On November 03 2015 04:50 kitaman27 wrote: I don't think I'm comfortable with Xatalos just yet.
Here is his read list from what I gathered. Basically all town and null reads.
Xatalos - Obviously town reads himself
Half the Sky - Strong town read
On November 03 2015 01:13 Xatalos wrote: Well, she's clearly reading the thread and making original findings. Such as the way I inquired Superbia about his townread on me, or how you were making filler posts here and there.... She's also coming to pretty good conclusions from those findings. Hard to ask for more at this point.
raynpelikoneet - Strong town read
On November 03 2015 01:01 Xatalos wrote: rayn has been very focused on finding townreads, something I think fits better with his town meta and is perhaps more useful in this game than finding a scum.
Superbia - Town read, though a tier below the previous ones. Questions the initial push, but seems content with him for the most part.
On November 03 2015 00:54 Xatalos wrote: Hm..... I think HtS/rayn/Superbia has a decent chance of being Spy-free. It would be worth considering at least.
On November 03 2015 01:31 Xatalos wrote: Well, I don't think Superbia's later posts were bad either. He somewhat decently explained his reason for the initial scumread on me and then townread me for a good reason too
Rels - Null, though this sounds more like townie null
On November 03 2015 00:05 Xatalos wrote: Hm.. I'd maybe put Rels into the null pile. I think his explanations somewhat made sense, and he's actively doing stuff (even if he can be active as scum, it's still easier to be a little less active than that as scum). Otherwise it seemed generally okay.
kitaman27 - Scum read for lack of interaction at start of the game. Hasn't elaborated much about me since then.
From his position knowing that there are three anti-town players, it seems like he isn't really suspicious of anyone aside from me, especially considering that he has so many posts already. I know that I'm probably biased considering that I'm the only one he seems to think is a spy, but that doesn't seem very satisfactory to me. He seems quite content with the status quo.
On November 02 2015 23:52 Xatalos wrote: Well, tbh I might take rayn and Superbia with me as well right now. Not because they're super town, but because there aren't that many good options. I hope that situation fixes itself.
I know from my perspective, I wouldn't be so willing to pass along the nominations if I don't have a great idea of where the bad guys might be. Right now it seems more like a process of elimination based on the lack of posts from the null players. Considering we can have several more cycles to get that part sorted out, I'm concerned about his willingness to rush things along so long as he is included in the nomination.
I still don't think I've spotted an alternative to super/xat that I'd be satisfied with yet though. It seems that I have the opposite problem than xat. Most people are coming off as untrustworthy/null, rather than the other way around
Pretty cool find! Xatalos definitely looked for scumreads in the vanilla game.
I just find it weird that when I throw suspicion on rayn to try and get him to engage with me over rels and Xatalos was the one to come in and tell me that my thought on rayn could be wrong [http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497443-resistance-v-section-31?page=20#383]. Rayn still hadn't engage with me until I specifically quoted him and asked him why [http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497443-resistance-v-section-31?page=20#396].
This is one of the main factors why I don't like the rayn/xata combo wombo, it looks similar to the way they both engaged with Rels.
I'm pretty sure HTS was the first one to discard your angry meta stuff.
On November 02 2015 23:20 Half the Sky wrote:
On November 02 2015 23:15 ShoCkeyy wrote: I haven't finished reading the thread, but since I did play with rayn last game where he was mafia and this really brings up his current meta:
On November 02 2015 19:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay i gotta get off for some time. I am starting to get angry at this.
He seriously starts to get "angry" when things do not go his way.
On November 02 2015 19:15 Rels wrote: rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.
This is also my best suggestion as well.
I know I said elsewhere, but rayn has done this as town (reference Drams and a host of other games lol), if rayn is indeed a spy, it's not for this. I did list my reasons for thinking rayn as town, if you dispute those, do let me know.
Also I'm not sure you can reasonably meta rayn from one game (Himalayas if I recall right?) but your doing so is NAI.
You obviously don't realize I'm not talking about the angry meta stuff anymore.
No I didn't. Let me quote the posts you're talking about.
On November 02 2015 23:15 ShoCkeyy wrote: I haven't finished reading the thread, but since I did play with rayn last game where he was mafia and this really brings up his current meta:
On November 02 2015 19:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay i gotta get off for some time. I am starting to get angry at this.
He seriously starts to get "angry" when things do not go his way.
On November 02 2015 19:15 Rels wrote: rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.
This is also my best suggestion as well.
Which game are you referring to?
I think he can get plenty angry as town too lol
He can get angry as town too, haven't never seen him play as town. I'm just basing it off my previous game with him, which is why I rather not have him on the first mission.
On November 02 2015 18:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: kitaman because he is talking about setup which is a big no-no in this game unless you are scum and want to give advice to your teammates, like "this is something i would not recommend to do".
Well the goal was indeed to give advice for my teammates. You don't need to automatically conclude that the advice was spy motivated. 36% success to 18% success is a significant drop off.
The problem is that is actually bad advice.
How is that bad advice?...
So you're saying rayn didn't defend himself from your read, and didn't even talk to you until you quoted a post of him. But Xatalos did the defending for him. How is rayn not talking to you scum indicative ? I understand how Xata jumping to defend rayn could be scum indicative. But if you think that, what do you think of HTS also defending him in that situation ? Lastly, I don't agree with him saying town should elect themselves in a team where they are leader.
I forgot a "not", but I state I don't agree with rayn's ideas that leader not including himself in his team. And just before your post:
On November 03 2015 23:09 Xatalos wrote: But rayn gave good reasons for proposing the full-scum (2/3 scum) team - lots of pressure on the whole team - and there are additional reasons having to do with miscommunications within the scumteam and such, so it might be better to propose that next.
Like seriously...why would you support this idea?
"Lets purposely fail the most important mission because maybe it well help us pass missions later"
Does nobody else see the problem here?
Yes of course it's a dumb thing to do. I think you should have not say anything and waited to see what rayn would have done tomorrow though.
Not the same subject, but similar. Your post does not explain how your actions are town motivated. Trying to follow the thread sentiment to the point of being OK not being included in the first mission has NO town motivation.
On November 04 2015 01:33 Xatalos wrote: Rels, could you expand on your Kita/shockey townreads?
One sentence each since I'm leaving in a few minutes: Kita makes sense and bring good points. He did that as scum too in a game where he wrecked us; but contrary to that, he's attacking people that are townread by a majority of the town: Superbia and you at the time, rayn just now. Shockey, I can't see any scum motivation to play the way he does; having odd reads that completely differs from the thread sentiment, and defending them to the point of getting scumread for it.
Kita only attacked scummy players in that game then, or what? Didn't you just say that he makes sense as either alignment..?
I think there's a fair scum motivation for pushing "odd" reads to manipulate the mission team selections..
Yeah he only attacked easy mislynches, and was super friendly to the town circle (TT, fidei, me ... and fucking him =X).
On November 04 2015 04:28 kitaman27 wrote: Half the Sky - Leaning town.
At the start of the game, I was concerned with the fact that she essentially posted exactly what I typically hear from scum players 6-12 hours into the game when I rarely choose to participate much. Since then, she has stayed pretty active and shows evidence of reading the thread. At certain points there was a pretty easy opportunity to
On November 04 2015 04:28 kitaman27 wrote: Half the Sky - Leaning town.
At the start of the game, I was concerned with the fact that she essentially posted exactly what I typically hear from scum players 6-12 hours into the game when I rarely choose to participate much. Since then, she has stayed pretty active and shows evidence of reading the thread. At certain points there was a pretty easy opportunity to
Yeah I agree. Whe she she could have but she .
More seriously, if you read her as town, explain to me what town motivation she could have for being so obsessed with looking good she's OK not being part of the team, even if she's leader.
OK I want to talk of something because I'm tired of seeing association case everywhere In this game: - mafia don't die / flip - 1 mafia in the team is enough to make the mission fail (except on mission 4) So it's PERFECTLY OK for mafias to suspect each other. What is probably going to happen: one guy will be read as town, one guy as mafia by the thread sentiment; then when the mission fail, the guy previously read as mafia can say "I told you so!" and gain town cred. On the same vein, it's OK for mafia to hard align, since they will not flip, so no 100% association can be drawn. It seems to me it's less effective since with team results, we might have some good ideas on someone being scum; but there will be no flip. To resume, mafias has very little incentive to not bus compared to a standard game, where putting suspicion on your teammate potentially means his death; and mafias can very well hard align. Association case are a lot weaker in this setup. Now contrary to some of you, I've never played this setup before, so /discuss please.
On November 04 2015 06:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels do you think i am scum? Also what are the situations where you do not pick yourself into the team as a leader?
No; I don't think it's ever a good idea to not pick yourself into the team.
On November 04 2015 09:10 Superbia wrote: Like I understand that pressuring me to read the thread is superobvious from either alignment, but I've had a long day and a long week ahead of me, so no. I'm not going to read shit right now. I also don't want people to hide behind walls of posts and filters. Everyone can keep it short and simple: why did you vote?
Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game.
Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia.
Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.".
Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went.
That was before the question ... so you really meant that. You know how I play as scum; I wouldn't try to win by making you ragequit / modkilled / whatever, 'cause that wouldn't be a win.
This bothers me very much rayn. How could you think that. You scumread me (partly) for "Rels scumreads me for a dumb meta reason". You know what; I think this is a very dumb meta reason (me trying to make you ragequit).
I have never called you mafia because of it. I am saying you could do that as scum, as kitaman was basically arguing the other way around.
On November 04 2015 04:28 kitaman27 wrote: Here are my reads so far. I'm sure they will change as time goes on. Admittedly there is a lot of wishy/washy or null reads. I'm still not completely sure about anyone really.
Half the Sky - Leaning town.
At the start of the game, I was concerned with the fact that she essentially posted exactly what I typically hear from scum players 6-12 hours into the game when I rarely choose to participate much. Since then, she has stayed pretty active and shows evidence of reading the thread. At certain points there was a pretty easy opportunity to
Uh, I think you're missing something here Kita.
GREAT ANALYSIS BRO I HOPE YOU INDULGE US WITH SUCH WISDOM AGAIN SOON
On November 04 2015 20:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Since this worked so well for me last time I'm gonna go and do it again. Reads of X on Y below: Things of note after I went through the filters: -Superbia doesn't have many opinions at all. I don't like it. He was honed into one thing and one thing alone for a while and didn't really come to anything from it. -I actually came off with a pretty strong townread on sl from it, which I was surprised by. He seems very open and aggressive in his posting which I didn't get from him when he was scum. Seems to actually be trying to do stuff. -Surprised so many people scumread Rels still. He seems really active to me and pushing things. Can people explain this? -Still actually kinda leaning scum on HtS. She seems highly defensive, and in hindsight I still don't really like how she mentioned how I didn't have much time, yet still tried to push a fear read based on not doing much.
Also, Rayn should be on whichever next mission. I also find it odd that shockeyy's actually suspicious of him, I'm not sure that's actually a good play as mafia to do but eh. Could be newbie scum I suppose.
That is awesome! Thanks for that, that will be useful later. You're probably town for this effort too.
On November 04 2015 20:52 Xatalos wrote: Crap... My phone deleted everything I was writing as I went back to look at filters :/ Now I'll just write from the top of my head..
So yeah, right now I think shockeyy is probably scum (especially if he didn't realize that the votes would be public like sicklucker said..). The remaining scum should be one of HTS/Kita (explained before) and one of Rels/Superbia/Artanis. Tbh Rels hasn't seemed too bad lately considering his constant activity and engagement, while Superbia and Artanis have basically continued semi-lurking for a long time now. Not really confident who there is scum, but that should be resolved as the game progresses.
So overall, not really confident in attempting an all-scum team right now. Probably best just to go with the safe plan of me, rayn and.. sicklucker? He hasn't really done much besides the weird OMGUS on me, but just with PoE, the point about shockeyy and overall his "I don't give a fuck" attitude seem more likely from town IMO. Tentatively:
##Nominate Xatalos, rayn, sicklucker (That should work?)
I'll be online only very sporadically for a while, but please comment.
Still following the thread sentiment I see. When I bring up stuff on HTS, you say "mm maybe she's scum." When SL asks to be in the team, you agree and roll with it. I'm not seeing SL is town or scum; but the way you're playing is super scummy. Alright it's time to roll out the meta analysis on you. Will do this tonight when I have more time.
On November 02 2015 10:45 kitaman27 wrote: I don't think the advantage of removing spy self-nominations would be worth the trade off of dropping the resistance leader success rate in half so I would encourage resistance leaders to not try anything fancy and exclude themselves. Do others agree?
I don't think a rule on that would be good. Just vote "no" to the team containing the leader if you don't like the leader.
On November 04 2015 06:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels do you think i am scum? Also what are the situations where you do not pick yourself into the team as a leader?
No; I don't think it's ever a good idea to not pick yourself into the team.
What made you change your mind?
I'm saying the same things here. I agreed with kita we shouldn't obligate leaders to not elect themselves to counter scums electing themselves. Now will you answer my request pretty please ?
On November 04 2015 01:34 Rels wrote: BTW I think kita / shockey / me is a clean team. The mentality behind rayn's proposal of this team is super twisted though.
What does this mean? If this doesn't mean you think i am mafia then why do you say this in the first place?
Also why do you think i am town, last time i asked you were not sure if i am town. After that you made a post where you said "mafia could easily bus however much they want to, or not" and you have basically questioned everything i have said since.
Why does that strengthen your townread on me? Or this like a shockeyy read where "i didn't actually say that so i can change my opinion if i want to based on the situation"?
I say that because in an earlier post I agreed with kita that your proposal is bad. We shouldn't try to make an all-scum team. It doesn't make you scum though, 'cause there is a town motivation to do that. I think you're town because you're playing like usual.
On November 02 2015 17:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: Or like if you were for so me reason you said something super complicatedly instead of just sayinbg "i agree / disagree".
I disagree.
I disagree. p: You thought it was scummy I said something super complicated, I disagreed. I didn't disagree with any proposition to leaders includind themselves. Alright ?
On November 04 2015 20:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Since this worked so well for me last time I'm gonna go and do it again. Reads of X on Y below: Things of note after I went through the filters: -Superbia doesn't have many opinions at all. I don't like it. He was honed into one thing and one thing alone for a while and didn't really come to anything from it. -I actually came off with a pretty strong townread on sl from it, which I was surprised by. He seems very open and aggressive in his posting which I didn't get from him when he was scum. Seems to actually be trying to do stuff. -Surprised so many people scumread Rels still. He seems really active to me and pushing things. Can people explain this? -Still actually kinda leaning scum on HtS. She seems highly defensive, and in hindsight I still don't really like how she mentioned how I didn't have much time, yet still tried to push a fear read based on not doing much.
Also, Rayn should be on whichever next mission. I also find it odd that shockeyy's actually suspicious of him, I'm not sure that's actually a good play as mafia to do but eh. Could be newbie scum I suppose.
That is awesome! Thanks for that, that will be useful later. You're probably town for this effort too.
Even though the last game he is referring to with this chart was how he tricked people to trust him as mafia?
On November 04 2015 20:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Since this worked so well for me last time I'm gonna go and do it again. Reads of X on Y below: Things of note after I went through the filters: -Superbia doesn't have many opinions at all. I don't like it. He was honed into one thing and one thing alone for a while and didn't really come to anything from it. -I actually came off with a pretty strong townread on sl from it, which I was surprised by. He seems very open and aggressive in his posting which I didn't get from him when he was scum. Seems to actually be trying to do stuff. -Surprised so many people scumread Rels still. He seems really active to me and pushing things. Can people explain this? -Still actually kinda leaning scum on HtS. She seems highly defensive, and in hindsight I still don't really like how she mentioned how I didn't have much time, yet still tried to push a fear read based on not doing much.
Also, Rayn should be on whichever next mission. I also find it odd that shockeyy's actually suspicious of him, I'm not sure that's actually a good play as mafia to do but eh. Could be newbie scum I suppose.
That is awesome! Thanks for that, that will be useful later. You're probably town for this effort too.
Even though the last game he is referring to with this chart was how he tricked people to trust him as mafia?
That's incorrect. I was town
Heh I'm aware of that. I was waiting to see if anyone was going to hop on it to draw conclusions -_-
On November 05 2015 00:27 Superbia wrote: Ugh. That answer does not satisfy me.
Rels- you are here. I am currently still incredibly stuck on your alignment as being mafia, so if you're town, you're going to have to walk me through your analysis of my alignment.
On November 02 2015 23:16 Rels wrote: OK this tire me so let's lay out what happened. Timeline.
1. Superbia scumreads Xata for saying "playing scum is a nightmare".
On November 02 2015 08:18 Superbia wrote: I instantly retract my townread.
On November 02 2015 08:20 Superbia wrote: So it's in no way a "nightmare" for "them". Which you should know, since you have played the game before.
2. Superbia asks Xata if he really thinks it's a nightmare, Xata kinda confirms.
On November 02 2015 08:32 Superbia wrote: Do you really think this game is a nightmare for scum?
On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia.
3. Superbia uses this to make Xatalos say something he didn't: that being scum isn't nightmarish
On November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote: So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that?
Conclusion That is the problem with Superbia's early play; twisting Xatalos' words to something he didn't mean. Now he turned that read around to townread Xatalos, and rayn is claiming it's not suspicous, which might be right. But this word-twisting stuff is scum indicative.
You are so incredibly stuck on me "twisting" Xatalos' words in the beginning of the day- and that it is scum-indicative. However, you evaluate my word twisty-ness from a position in which I would have to be scum and Xat would have to be town (this is why I've been calling TMI on you), while you had no read on Xat. Moreover, that entire scum-read could've been put in the garbage as soon as I started flipping on Xatalos.
On November 03 2015 06:30 Superbia wrote: Rels have you even read my post explain the whole Xat thing? Every single point you're bringing up (as far as I'm reading - p16) seems to be your own weird interpretation on things and I am really disliking it.
This post in particular is incredibly loaded with your own interpretation, and it really feels like you're driving an agenda here (i.e. to scum-push me):
On November 02 2015 22:34 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 20:52 Superbia wrote:
On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance.
...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push.
Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far.
I find this super convenient. Superbia started by scumreading Xata for the nightmare thing, which is understandable. Then there was the "is it still nightmarish ?" "kinda" "now that you've said it's not nightmarish anymore ..." scumread which was super weird. And now that rayn thinks Xata is town for meta, suddenly Xata is town for Superbia too, and I have TMI on him.
Let's break this apart into two pieces:
1. My secondary post on the whole nightmare-ish part is putting into words what I had already expected to have been inside Xatalos' head- that he did not believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. I have explained this.
2. Your TMI has nothing to do with my read on Xatalos whatsoever. The blatant fucking fact is that you are evaluating me for interactions with Xatalos without giving a read on Xatalos. What if he's mafia? Does that change anything for your read on me?
Side note. You exclaim that me beginning to lean town on Xatalos is super convient. In what way? If I am scum, what am I achieving here? Keep in mind that you still have no read on Xatalos (right?). So in what way is me, calling a null for you, super convenient?
Rels, kindly answer the bolded questions and the following: - Please explain, in detail, how what you perceived to be my push on Xatalos makes me mafia. - How was my explanation on the matter inadequate? What did not make sense?
I think there was something else I wanted to ask but I forgot. Maybe I'll remember it later.
I've already discarded the "you town read on Xatalos is convenient" stuff, it wasn't scum indicative. Your read on Xatalos is weird because it is not based on logic. Xatalos is saying it's kinda nightmarish to be scum => you say he said the inverse. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective. It makes sense from a scum perspective that decided to scumread Xatalos, and is twisting things to keep it.
Does not give me anything. It's a cheap and easy way to look at things, and ignore my perfectly good explanation. In fact, you ignore a number of my questions- ones that I still want answered. Pushing town as mafia is something you do- I've seen it done in the previous game we were in. The fact that you are so adamant with such hollow argument irks me so much, especially knowing my own alignment.
I have nothing to add to what I wrote above. You pushed Xatalos on something illogical, then you turned your read around. This is scum indicative and no amount of explanation will change that. Now that is not strong, so I'm waiting to see what you'll do.
On November 05 2015 00:27 Superbia wrote: Ugh. That answer does not satisfy me.
Rels- you are here. I am currently still incredibly stuck on your alignment as being mafia, so if you're town, you're going to have to walk me through your analysis of my alignment.
On November 02 2015 23:16 Rels wrote: OK this tire me so let's lay out what happened. Timeline.
1. Superbia scumreads Xata for saying "playing scum is a nightmare".
On November 02 2015 08:18 Superbia wrote: I instantly retract my townread.
On November 02 2015 08:20 Superbia wrote: So it's in no way a "nightmare" for "them". Which you should know, since you have played the game before.
2. Superbia asks Xata if he really thinks it's a nightmare, Xata kinda confirms.
On November 02 2015 08:32 Superbia wrote: Do you really think this game is a nightmare for scum?
On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia.
3. Superbia uses this to make Xatalos say something he didn't: that being scum isn't nightmarish
On November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote: So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that?
Conclusion That is the problem with Superbia's early play; twisting Xatalos' words to something he didn't mean. Now he turned that read around to townread Xatalos, and rayn is claiming it's not suspicous, which might be right. But this word-twisting stuff is scum indicative.
You are so incredibly stuck on me "twisting" Xatalos' words in the beginning of the day- and that it is scum-indicative. However, you evaluate my word twisty-ness from a position in which I would have to be scum and Xat would have to be town (this is why I've been calling TMI on you), while you had no read on Xat. Moreover, that entire scum-read could've been put in the garbage as soon as I started flipping on Xatalos.
On November 03 2015 06:30 Superbia wrote: Rels have you even read my post explain the whole Xat thing? Every single point you're bringing up (as far as I'm reading - p16) seems to be your own weird interpretation on things and I am really disliking it.
This post in particular is incredibly loaded with your own interpretation, and it really feels like you're driving an agenda here (i.e. to scum-push me):
On November 02 2015 22:34 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 20:52 Superbia wrote:
On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance.
...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push.
Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far.
I find this super convenient. Superbia started by scumreading Xata for the nightmare thing, which is understandable. Then there was the "is it still nightmarish ?" "kinda" "now that you've said it's not nightmarish anymore ..." scumread which was super weird. And now that rayn thinks Xata is town for meta, suddenly Xata is town for Superbia too, and I have TMI on him.
Let's break this apart into two pieces:
1. My secondary post on the whole nightmare-ish part is putting into words what I had already expected to have been inside Xatalos' head- that he did not believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. I have explained this.
2. Your TMI has nothing to do with my read on Xatalos whatsoever. The blatant fucking fact is that you are evaluating me for interactions with Xatalos without giving a read on Xatalos. What if he's mafia? Does that change anything for your read on me?
Side note. You exclaim that me beginning to lean town on Xatalos is super convient. In what way? If I am scum, what am I achieving here? Keep in mind that you still have no read on Xatalos (right?). So in what way is me, calling a null for you, super convenient?
Rels, kindly answer the bolded questions and the following: - Please explain, in detail, how what you perceived to be my push on Xatalos makes me mafia. - How was my explanation on the matter inadequate? What did not make sense?
I think there was something else I wanted to ask but I forgot. Maybe I'll remember it later.
I've already discarded the "you town read on Xatalos is convenient" stuff, it wasn't scum indicative. Your read on Xatalos is weird because it is not based on logic. Xatalos is saying it's kinda nightmarish to be scum => you say he said the inverse. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective. It makes sense from a scum perspective that decided to scumread Xatalos, and is twisting things to keep it.
Does not give me anything. It's a cheap and easy way to look at things, and ignore my perfectly good explanation. In fact, you ignore a number of my questions- ones that I still want answered. Pushing town as mafia is something you do- I've seen it done in the previous game we were in. The fact that you are so adamant with such hollow argument irks me so much, especially knowing my own alignment.
I have nothing to add to what I wrote above. You pushed Xatalos on something illogical, then you turned your read around. This is scum indicative and no amount of explanation will change that. Now that is not strong, so I'm waiting to see what you'll do.
Going to call you scum for the rest of the game probably. Unless something drastically changes. The logic makes no sense.
Your push on me implies: - Xat is town (likely at this point- not for you at that point in time) - I am scum (nope). - My agenda behind the push on Xat was to put scum on town-Xat as scum. Probably to divert attention.
Here's where the problems are: - You have failed to address my explanation post, even though strong town players have backed up my reasoning (HtS and rayn, do you believe they are both scum?). - I flipped on Xat rather quickly, which fucks over the agenda you proposed. - You have never explained why it is scum-indicative, only in the case where Xat is strictly town, and I am strictly scum, which is back-wards reasoning. This indicates an agenda (i.e. pushing town-me).
And this is the most glaring one I just thought of: - In your world, you have failed to argue that I (scum-Superbia) am now going after you (town-Rels). Even though you should 100% know your own alignment (and it should be town, right?), and it would completely support your initial assertion.
OK Superbia is scum. Pretty cool. (= His mindset is not town oriented. His push on Xatalos is based on something illogical; I call him out on that; and he's making up this story how I'm scum pushing him. There is no reason to do that if he's town; he would just accept that he did over-analyze Xatalos' post, and move on with something else.
On November 05 2015 00:27 Superbia wrote: Ugh. That answer does not satisfy me.
Rels- you are here. I am currently still incredibly stuck on your alignment as being mafia, so if you're town, you're going to have to walk me through your analysis of my alignment.
On November 02 2015 23:16 Rels wrote: OK this tire me so let's lay out what happened. Timeline.
1. Superbia scumreads Xata for saying "playing scum is a nightmare".
On November 02 2015 08:18 Superbia wrote: I instantly retract my townread.
On November 02 2015 08:20 Superbia wrote: So it's in no way a "nightmare" for "them". Which you should know, since you have played the game before.
2. Superbia asks Xata if he really thinks it's a nightmare, Xata kinda confirms.
On November 02 2015 08:32 Superbia wrote: Do you really think this game is a nightmare for scum?
On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia.
3. Superbia uses this to make Xatalos say something he didn't: that being scum isn't nightmarish
On November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote: So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that?
Conclusion That is the problem with Superbia's early play; twisting Xatalos' words to something he didn't mean. Now he turned that read around to townread Xatalos, and rayn is claiming it's not suspicous, which might be right. But this word-twisting stuff is scum indicative.
You are so incredibly stuck on me "twisting" Xatalos' words in the beginning of the day- and that it is scum-indicative. However, you evaluate my word twisty-ness from a position in which I would have to be scum and Xat would have to be town (this is why I've been calling TMI on you), while you had no read on Xat. Moreover, that entire scum-read could've been put in the garbage as soon as I started flipping on Xatalos.
On November 03 2015 06:30 Superbia wrote: Rels have you even read my post explain the whole Xat thing? Every single point you're bringing up (as far as I'm reading - p16) seems to be your own weird interpretation on things and I am really disliking it.
This post in particular is incredibly loaded with your own interpretation, and it really feels like you're driving an agenda here (i.e. to scum-push me):
On November 02 2015 22:34 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 20:52 Superbia wrote:
On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance.
...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push.
Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far.
I find this super convenient. Superbia started by scumreading Xata for the nightmare thing, which is understandable. Then there was the "is it still nightmarish ?" "kinda" "now that you've said it's not nightmarish anymore ..." scumread which was super weird. And now that rayn thinks Xata is town for meta, suddenly Xata is town for Superbia too, and I have TMI on him.
Let's break this apart into two pieces:
1. My secondary post on the whole nightmare-ish part is putting into words what I had already expected to have been inside Xatalos' head- that he did not believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. I have explained this.
2. Your TMI has nothing to do with my read on Xatalos whatsoever. The blatant fucking fact is that you are evaluating me for interactions with Xatalos without giving a read on Xatalos. What if he's mafia? Does that change anything for your read on me?
Side note. You exclaim that me beginning to lean town on Xatalos is super convient. In what way? If I am scum, what am I achieving here? Keep in mind that you still have no read on Xatalos (right?). So in what way is me, calling a null for you, super convenient?
Rels, kindly answer the bolded questions and the following: - Please explain, in detail, how what you perceived to be my push on Xatalos makes me mafia. - How was my explanation on the matter inadequate? What did not make sense?
I think there was something else I wanted to ask but I forgot. Maybe I'll remember it later.
I've already discarded the "you town read on Xatalos is convenient" stuff, it wasn't scum indicative. Your read on Xatalos is weird because it is not based on logic. Xatalos is saying it's kinda nightmarish to be scum => you say he said the inverse. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective. It makes sense from a scum perspective that decided to scumread Xatalos, and is twisting things to keep it.
Does not give me anything. It's a cheap and easy way to look at things, and ignore my perfectly good explanation. In fact, you ignore a number of my questions- ones that I still want answered. Pushing town as mafia is something you do- I've seen it done in the previous game we were in. The fact that you are so adamant with such hollow argument irks me so much, especially knowing my own alignment.
I'm not sure what the purpose of this post is. At the start of it you mention how you want Rels to walk you through his argument, but then you proceed to trash him and explain your scumread moreso than that you seem to be looking for an explanation. Do you have any questions for him in specific?
Read the post the answer quotes. There are questions left unanswered, and the answer is very "uncaring". If that makes sense. I put effort into my post, and the effort in the answer is just, it doesn't fucking tell me anything new.
Alright, okay. Your TMI argument doesn't really make sense to me though. You say he's working from a TMI perspective in which he knows Xata is town and you're scum. Somehow I doubt this is the argument you're actually trying to make.
My initial problem with rels (the TMI one) is this: - He starts off by saying he will "eventually" read Xat (d3 or so, iirc). - He scum-reads on me for the reasoning he has given, but that reasoning strictly works if Xat is town (But he has no read on him?).
False. The read is based on something illogical, and has not link with Xata's alignement.
On November 05 2015 00:55 Superbia wrote: That was my initial TMI read on Rels. It may still be true, but I'm mainly focused on the fact that is he hammering this shit home, even though he should've either re-evaluated or evolved his read from here.
False. I just said it was a small scum indication and that I was waiting to see where Superbia would do next.
On November 05 2015 00:27 Superbia wrote: Ugh. That answer does not satisfy me.
Rels- you are here. I am currently still incredibly stuck on your alignment as being mafia, so if you're town, you're going to have to walk me through your analysis of my alignment.
On November 02 2015 23:16 Rels wrote: OK this tire me so let's lay out what happened. Timeline.
1. Superbia scumreads Xata for saying "playing scum is a nightmare".
On November 02 2015 08:18 Superbia wrote: I instantly retract my townread.
On November 02 2015 08:20 Superbia wrote: So it's in no way a "nightmare" for "them". Which you should know, since you have played the game before.
2. Superbia asks Xata if he really thinks it's a nightmare, Xata kinda confirms.
On November 02 2015 08:32 Superbia wrote: Do you really think this game is a nightmare for scum?
On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia.
3. Superbia uses this to make Xatalos say something he didn't: that being scum isn't nightmarish
On November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote: So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that?
Conclusion That is the problem with Superbia's early play; twisting Xatalos' words to something he didn't mean. Now he turned that read around to townread Xatalos, and rayn is claiming it's not suspicous, which might be right. But this word-twisting stuff is scum indicative.
You are so incredibly stuck on me "twisting" Xatalos' words in the beginning of the day- and that it is scum-indicative. However, you evaluate my word twisty-ness from a position in which I would have to be scum and Xat would have to be town (this is why I've been calling TMI on you), while you had no read on Xat. Moreover, that entire scum-read could've been put in the garbage as soon as I started flipping on Xatalos.
On November 03 2015 06:30 Superbia wrote: Rels have you even read my post explain the whole Xat thing? Every single point you're bringing up (as far as I'm reading - p16) seems to be your own weird interpretation on things and I am really disliking it.
This post in particular is incredibly loaded with your own interpretation, and it really feels like you're driving an agenda here (i.e. to scum-push me):
On November 02 2015 22:34 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 20:52 Superbia wrote:
On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance.
...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push.
Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far.
I find this super convenient. Superbia started by scumreading Xata for the nightmare thing, which is understandable. Then there was the "is it still nightmarish ?" "kinda" "now that you've said it's not nightmarish anymore ..." scumread which was super weird. And now that rayn thinks Xata is town for meta, suddenly Xata is town for Superbia too, and I have TMI on him.
Let's break this apart into two pieces:
1. My secondary post on the whole nightmare-ish part is putting into words what I had already expected to have been inside Xatalos' head- that he did not believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. I have explained this.
2. Your TMI has nothing to do with my read on Xatalos whatsoever. The blatant fucking fact is that you are evaluating me for interactions with Xatalos without giving a read on Xatalos. What if he's mafia? Does that change anything for your read on me?
Side note. You exclaim that me beginning to lean town on Xatalos is super convient. In what way? If I am scum, what am I achieving here? Keep in mind that you still have no read on Xatalos (right?). So in what way is me, calling a null for you, super convenient?
Rels, kindly answer the bolded questions and the following: - Please explain, in detail, how what you perceived to be my push on Xatalos makes me mafia. - How was my explanation on the matter inadequate? What did not make sense?
I think there was something else I wanted to ask but I forgot. Maybe I'll remember it later.
I've already discarded the "you town read on Xatalos is convenient" stuff, it wasn't scum indicative. Your read on Xatalos is weird because it is not based on logic. Xatalos is saying it's kinda nightmarish to be scum => you say he said the inverse. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective. It makes sense from a scum perspective that decided to scumread Xatalos, and is twisting things to keep it.
Does not give me anything. It's a cheap and easy way to look at things, and ignore my perfectly good explanation. In fact, you ignore a number of my questions- ones that I still want answered. Pushing town as mafia is something you do- I've seen it done in the previous game we were in. The fact that you are so adamant with such hollow argument irks me so much, especially knowing my own alignment.
I'm not sure what the purpose of this post is. At the start of it you mention how you want Rels to walk you through his argument, but then you proceed to trash him and explain your scumread moreso than that you seem to be looking for an explanation. Do you have any questions for him in specific?
Read the post the answer quotes. There are questions left unanswered, and the answer is very "uncaring". If that makes sense. I put effort into my post, and the effort in the answer is just, it doesn't fucking tell me anything new.
Alright, okay. Your TMI argument doesn't really make sense to me though. You say he's working from a TMI perspective in which he knows Xata is town and you're scum. Somehow I doubt this is the argument you're actually trying to make.
My initial problem with rels (the TMI one) is this: - He starts off by saying he will "eventually" read Xat (d3 or so, iirc). - He scum-reads on me for the reasoning he has given, but that reasoning strictly works if Xat is town (But he has no read on him?).
That was my initial TMI read on Rels. It may still be true, but I'm mainly focused on the fact that is he hammering this shit home, even though he should've either re-evaluated or evolved his read from here.
Yeah I understood it later. I can see the issue.
Rels, did you not have a read on Xata at all yet?
I didn't at the time. It has no connection with Superbia's push being based on something illogical though.
On November 05 2015 00:27 Superbia wrote: Ugh. That answer does not satisfy me.
Rels- you are here. I am currently still incredibly stuck on your alignment as being mafia, so if you're town, you're going to have to walk me through your analysis of my alignment.
On November 02 2015 23:16 Rels wrote: OK this tire me so let's lay out what happened. Timeline.
1. Superbia scumreads Xata for saying "playing scum is a nightmare".
On November 02 2015 08:18 Superbia wrote: I instantly retract my townread.
On November 02 2015 08:20 Superbia wrote: So it's in no way a "nightmare" for "them". Which you should know, since you have played the game before.
2. Superbia asks Xata if he really thinks it's a nightmare, Xata kinda confirms.
On November 02 2015 08:32 Superbia wrote: Do you really think this game is a nightmare for scum?
On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia.
3. Superbia uses this to make Xatalos say something he didn't: that being scum isn't nightmarish
On November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote: So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that?
Conclusion That is the problem with Superbia's early play; twisting Xatalos' words to something he didn't mean. Now he turned that read around to townread Xatalos, and rayn is claiming it's not suspicous, which might be right. But this word-twisting stuff is scum indicative.
You are so incredibly stuck on me "twisting" Xatalos' words in the beginning of the day- and that it is scum-indicative. However, you evaluate my word twisty-ness from a position in which I would have to be scum and Xat would have to be town (this is why I've been calling TMI on you), while you had no read on Xat. Moreover, that entire scum-read could've been put in the garbage as soon as I started flipping on Xatalos.
On November 03 2015 06:30 Superbia wrote: Rels have you even read my post explain the whole Xat thing? Every single point you're bringing up (as far as I'm reading - p16) seems to be your own weird interpretation on things and I am really disliking it.
This post in particular is incredibly loaded with your own interpretation, and it really feels like you're driving an agenda here (i.e. to scum-push me):
On November 02 2015 22:34 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 20:52 Superbia wrote:
On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance.
...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push.
Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far.
I find this super convenient. Superbia started by scumreading Xata for the nightmare thing, which is understandable. Then there was the "is it still nightmarish ?" "kinda" "now that you've said it's not nightmarish anymore ..." scumread which was super weird. And now that rayn thinks Xata is town for meta, suddenly Xata is town for Superbia too, and I have TMI on him.
Let's break this apart into two pieces:
1. My secondary post on the whole nightmare-ish part is putting into words what I had already expected to have been inside Xatalos' head- that he did not believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. I have explained this.
2. Your TMI has nothing to do with my read on Xatalos whatsoever. The blatant fucking fact is that you are evaluating me for interactions with Xatalos without giving a read on Xatalos. What if he's mafia? Does that change anything for your read on me?
Side note. You exclaim that me beginning to lean town on Xatalos is super convient. In what way? If I am scum, what am I achieving here? Keep in mind that you still have no read on Xatalos (right?). So in what way is me, calling a null for you, super convenient?
Rels, kindly answer the bolded questions and the following: - Please explain, in detail, how what you perceived to be my push on Xatalos makes me mafia. - How was my explanation on the matter inadequate? What did not make sense?
I think there was something else I wanted to ask but I forgot. Maybe I'll remember it later.
I've already discarded the "you town read on Xatalos is convenient" stuff, it wasn't scum indicative. Your read on Xatalos is weird because it is not based on logic. Xatalos is saying it's kinda nightmarish to be scum => you say he said the inverse. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective. It makes sense from a scum perspective that decided to scumread Xatalos, and is twisting things to keep it.
Does not give me anything. It's a cheap and easy way to look at things, and ignore my perfectly good explanation. In fact, you ignore a number of my questions- ones that I still want answered. Pushing town as mafia is something you do- I've seen it done in the previous game we were in. The fact that you are so adamant with such hollow argument irks me so much, especially knowing my own alignment.
I'm not sure what the purpose of this post is. At the start of it you mention how you want Rels to walk you through his argument, but then you proceed to trash him and explain your scumread moreso than that you seem to be looking for an explanation. Do you have any questions for him in specific?
Read the post the answer quotes. There are questions left unanswered, and the answer is very "uncaring". If that makes sense. I put effort into my post, and the effort in the answer is just, it doesn't fucking tell me anything new.
Alright, okay. Your TMI argument doesn't really make sense to me though. You say he's working from a TMI perspective in which he knows Xata is town and you're scum. Somehow I doubt this is the argument you're actually trying to make.
My initial problem with rels (the TMI one) is this: - He starts off by saying he will "eventually" read Xat (d3 or so, iirc). - He scum-reads on me for the reasoning he has given, but that reasoning strictly works if Xat is town (But he has no read on him?).
False. The read is based on something illogical, and has not link with Xata's alignement.
Has an absolute link with Xata's alignment. I am pushing Xata for something you deem illogical. Fair enough, but the scum-read indicates Xata is town. Else I am scum-reading Scum-Xata as scum for an illogical reason- why?
On November 05 2015 00:55 Superbia wrote: That was my initial TMI read on Rels. It may still be true, but I'm mainly focused on the fact that is he hammering this shit home, even though he should've either re-evaluated or evolved his read from here.
False. I just said it was a small scum indication and that I was waiting to see where Superbia would do next.
You have been unable to properly evaluate my early-play, even though I have walked through it and explained it, in a post you have conveniently pretty much ignored. Have been ignoring my queries to in-depth evaluate it and other questions (which I cannot recall, but they were probably important). Moreover, you have put 0 effort from that point on to evaluate me in any sort of way (from what I can tell).
Like my fucking nightmare scenario in this game is if you are actually town -as I am evaluating this game from the point of view in which you are mafia- but I cannot believe it at this point in time.
Don't talk to me scum. You're using this excuse to completely shut up about anything else. GTFO or talk about something else.
On November 05 2015 00:27 Superbia wrote: Ugh. That answer does not satisfy me.
Rels- you are here. I am currently still incredibly stuck on your alignment as being mafia, so if you're town, you're going to have to walk me through your analysis of my alignment.
On November 02 2015 23:16 Rels wrote: OK this tire me so let's lay out what happened. Timeline.
1. Superbia scumreads Xata for saying "playing scum is a nightmare". [quote] [quote]
2. Superbia asks Xata if he really thinks it's a nightmare, Xata kinda confirms. [quote] [quote]
3. Superbia uses this to make Xatalos say something he didn't: that being scum isn't nightmarish [quote]
Conclusion That is the problem with Superbia's early play; twisting Xatalos' words to something he didn't mean. Now he turned that read around to townread Xatalos, and rayn is claiming it's not suspicous, which might be right. But this word-twisting stuff is scum indicative.
You are so incredibly stuck on me "twisting" Xatalos' words in the beginning of the day- and that it is scum-indicative. However, you evaluate my word twisty-ness from a position in which I would have to be scum and Xat would have to be town (this is why I've been calling TMI on you), while you had no read on Xat. Moreover, that entire scum-read could've been put in the garbage as soon as I started flipping on Xatalos.
On November 03 2015 06:30 Superbia wrote: Rels have you even read my post explain the whole Xat thing? Every single point you're bringing up (as far as I'm reading - p16) seems to be your own weird interpretation on things and I am really disliking it.
This post in particular is incredibly loaded with your own interpretation, and it really feels like you're driving an agenda here (i.e. to scum-push me):
On November 02 2015 22:34 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 20:52 Superbia wrote:
On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance.
...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push.
Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far.
I find this super convenient. Superbia started by scumreading Xata for the nightmare thing, which is understandable. Then there was the "is it still nightmarish ?" "kinda" "now that you've said it's not nightmarish anymore ..." scumread which was super weird. And now that rayn thinks Xata is town for meta, suddenly Xata is town for Superbia too, and I have TMI on him.
Let's break this apart into two pieces:
1. My secondary post on the whole nightmare-ish part is putting into words what I had already expected to have been inside Xatalos' head- that he did not believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. I have explained this.
2. Your TMI has nothing to do with my read on Xatalos whatsoever. The blatant fucking fact is that you are evaluating me for interactions with Xatalos without giving a read on Xatalos. What if he's mafia? Does that change anything for your read on me?
Side note. You exclaim that me beginning to lean town on Xatalos is super convient. In what way? If I am scum, what am I achieving here? Keep in mind that you still have no read on Xatalos (right?). So in what way is me, calling a null for you, super convenient?
Rels, kindly answer the bolded questions and the following: - Please explain, in detail, how what you perceived to be my push on Xatalos makes me mafia. - How was my explanation on the matter inadequate? What did not make sense?
I think there was something else I wanted to ask but I forgot. Maybe I'll remember it later.
I've already discarded the "you town read on Xatalos is convenient" stuff, it wasn't scum indicative. Your read on Xatalos is weird because it is not based on logic. Xatalos is saying it's kinda nightmarish to be scum => you say he said the inverse. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective. It makes sense from a scum perspective that decided to scumread Xatalos, and is twisting things to keep it.
Does not give me anything. It's a cheap and easy way to look at things, and ignore my perfectly good explanation. In fact, you ignore a number of my questions- ones that I still want answered. Pushing town as mafia is something you do- I've seen it done in the previous game we were in. The fact that you are so adamant with such hollow argument irks me so much, especially knowing my own alignment.
I'm not sure what the purpose of this post is. At the start of it you mention how you want Rels to walk you through his argument, but then you proceed to trash him and explain your scumread moreso than that you seem to be looking for an explanation. Do you have any questions for him in specific?
Read the post the answer quotes. There are questions left unanswered, and the answer is very "uncaring". If that makes sense. I put effort into my post, and the effort in the answer is just, it doesn't fucking tell me anything new.
Alright, okay. Your TMI argument doesn't really make sense to me though. You say he's working from a TMI perspective in which he knows Xata is town and you're scum. Somehow I doubt this is the argument you're actually trying to make.
My initial problem with rels (the TMI one) is this: - He starts off by saying he will "eventually" read Xat (d3 or so, iirc). - He scum-reads on me for the reasoning he has given, but that reasoning strictly works if Xat is town (But he has no read on him?).
False. The read is based on something illogical, and has not link with Xata's alignement.
Has an absolute link with Xata's alignment. I am pushing Xata for something you deem illogical. Fair enough, but the scum-read indicates Xata is town. Else I am scum-reading Scum-Xata as scum for an illogical reason- why?
On November 05 2015 00:58 Rels wrote:
On November 05 2015 00:55 Superbia wrote: That was my initial TMI read on Rels. It may still be true, but I'm mainly focused on the fact that is he hammering this shit home, even though he should've either re-evaluated or evolved his read from here.
False. I just said it was a small scum indication and that I was waiting to see where Superbia would do next.
You have been unable to properly evaluate my early-play, even though I have walked through it and explained it, in a post you have conveniently pretty much ignored. Have been ignoring my queries to in-depth evaluate it and other questions (which I cannot recall, but they were probably important). Moreover, you have put 0 effort from that point on to evaluate me in any sort of way (from what I can tell).
Like my fucking nightmare scenario in this game is if you are actually town -as I am evaluating this game from the point of view in which you are mafia- but I cannot believe it at this point in time.
Don't talk to me scum. You're using this excuse to completely shut up about anything else. GTFO or talk about something else.
Do you have to be this obtuse? Can't we all just be nice? :/
I'm obtuse ??????? The guy comes back after two days of fucking nothing, is still blabing about the same stuff, and don't answer your questions. Now he found the perfect excuse to scumread me and not talk about anything else. Why are starting to think he's town ? Because he gets angry ?
On November 05 2015 01:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I actually think the argument has gone off base so far that its depleted its usefulness and we should move onto more productive things.
Superbia, you indicated you think Kita is scum for how he read you. Is there anything else you dislike about him? What do you think about the rest of his reads?
Perhaps you are right in this argument. In any case we should probably not pursue it any further now as it will not help me evaluate Rels in any sort of way.
Kita is still up in the air at this point, he's not in my town circle. (My PoE scum list is: Rels, Shockey, Kita, Sicklucker, HtS/maybe you) I'm mostly going off the votes here: - There's a general feel that it is obvious most people will vote no- so scum (as having no QT) are more likely to vote with the general consensus (not sticking out etc.). - Mafia are very likely to vote yes on a mission with a mafia. Unless the consensus is against it. Consensus takes heavy priority over everything for mafia. - Mafia are somewhat likely to vote no on a mission with only town. They can vote yes to look good, especially early on. This can very easily go against consensus ("see, I told you the mission would pass!"). - Mafia are very likely to vote no on a mission with only town, if the situation is dire. - Stand out vote is usually either trolly or complete confidence. I don't think shockey was/had either.
So:
If the team consisted of town, and my PoE is correct: - Mafia is likely: Rels, shockey, sicklucker.
If the team had a mafia, and my PoE is correct: - Mafia is likely: Rels, Kita, Shockey/SL. OR Rels, HtS (who would attempt to frame Kita), shockey/SL.
Alternate world would include both HtS and Kita but eh. Could be, but I don't think so atm. I think rayn's argument as to kita trying to influence the team a lot near deadline is good. I think the fact that none of the team-members votes for the team to pass leans towards a scum being on the team (scum votes as consensus, town votes what they believe, the fact that no one in the team believed therefore leans me more towards a scum being in the team).
I don't understand how you can say "scums are more likely to vote with the general consensus (not sticking out etc.)." and put Shockey in your POE list. You then say "Stand out vote is usually either trolly or complete confidence. I don't think shockey was/had either.", which doesn't explain it. Expand please ?
On November 05 2015 01:29 Superbia wrote: I'm going to read some more pages as I am not caught up 100% yet. And then groceries. Will probably be back later this evening.
I propose this team: Xat/Rayn/Superbia
Kinda selfish, but whatever. I think that team would likely pass.
On November 04 2015 20:52 Xatalos wrote: Crap... My phone deleted everything I was writing as I went back to look at filters :/ Now I'll just write from the top of my head..
So yeah, right now I think shockeyy is probably scum (especially if he didn't realize that the votes would be public like sicklucker said..). The remaining scum should be one of HTS/Kita (explained before) and one of Rels/Superbia/Artanis. Tbh Rels hasn't seemed too bad lately considering his constant activity and engagement, while Superbia and Artanis have basically continued semi-lurking for a long time now. Not really confident who there is scum, but that should be resolved as the game progresses.
So overall, not really confident in attempting an all-scum team right now. Probably best just to go with the safe plan of me, rayn and.. sicklucker? He hasn't really done much besides the weird OMGUS on me, but just with PoE, the point about shockeyy and overall his "I don't give a fuck" attitude seem more likely from town IMO. Tentatively:
##Nominate Xatalos, rayn, sicklucker (That should work?)
I'll be online only very sporadically for a while, but please comment.
Still following the thread sentiment I see. When I bring up stuff on HTS, you say "mm maybe she's scum." When SL asks to be in the team, you agree and roll with it. I'm not seeing SL is town or scum; but the way you're playing is super scummy. Alright it's time to roll out the meta analysis on you. Will do this tonight when I have more time.
I'm confused by this post. Didn't you call me a good townread recently? What's with this "super scummy" suddenly? Besides, I didn't even read SL's post before my nomination... Which you should have noticed by the fact that I hadn't even got to reading Artanis's post before I started typing.
Overall, would be nice to hear more opinions on the current proposal. From you, from Superbia, and others.
Mm I'll check that tonight. I need to check your filter length compared to your scum / town game, but 10 pages already feels enormous considering we're in N1 in a normal game. Assuming the filter length analysis confirms what I think right now: I would like you to switch sicklucker with kita, shockey, me or Artanis. SL is not doing much; nothing he did was scum indicative, but nominating someone just because he doesn't seem to care is not ideal when there is stronger choice.
On November 04 2015 20:52 Xatalos wrote: Crap... My phone deleted everything I was writing as I went back to look at filters :/ Now I'll just write from the top of my head..
So yeah, right now I think shockeyy is probably scum (especially if he didn't realize that the votes would be public like sicklucker said..). The remaining scum should be one of HTS/Kita (explained before) and one of Rels/Superbia/Artanis. Tbh Rels hasn't seemed too bad lately considering his constant activity and engagement, while Superbia and Artanis have basically continued semi-lurking for a long time now. Not really confident who there is scum, but that should be resolved as the game progresses.
So overall, not really confident in attempting an all-scum team right now. Probably best just to go with the safe plan of me, rayn and.. sicklucker? He hasn't really done much besides the weird OMGUS on me, but just with PoE, the point about shockeyy and overall his "I don't give a fuck" attitude seem more likely from town IMO. Tentatively:
##Nominate Xatalos, rayn, sicklucker (That should work?)
I'll be online only very sporadically for a while, but please comment.
Still following the thread sentiment I see. When I bring up stuff on HTS, you say "mm maybe she's scum." When SL asks to be in the team, you agree and roll with it. I'm not seeing SL is town or scum; but the way you're playing is super scummy. Alright it's time to roll out the meta analysis on you. Will do this tonight when I have more time.
I'm confused by this post. Didn't you call me a good townread recently? What's with this "super scummy" suddenly? Besides, I didn't even read SL's post before my nomination... Which you should have noticed by the fact that I hadn't even got to reading Artanis's post before I started typing.
Overall, would be nice to hear more opinions on the current proposal. From you, from Superbia, and others.
Mm I'll check that tonight. I need to check your filter length compared to your scum / town game, but 10 pages already feels enormous considering we're in N1 in a normal game. Assuming the filter length analysis confirms what I think right now: I would like you to switch sicklucker with kita, shockey, me or Artanis. SL is not doing much; nothing he did was scum indicative, but nominating someone just because he doesn't seem to care is not ideal when there is stronger choice.
This can't happen.
Let's do a two-men mission then; I'll watch you very closely ... Can you expand on the shockey stuff I wrote in the previous page in response to your big post ?
On November 05 2015 01:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I actually think the argument has gone off base so far that its depleted its usefulness and we should move onto more productive things.
Superbia, you indicated you think Kita is scum for how he read you. Is there anything else you dislike about him? What do you think about the rest of his reads?
Perhaps you are right in this argument. In any case we should probably not pursue it any further now as it will not help me evaluate Rels in any sort of way.
Kita is still up in the air at this point, he's not in my town circle. (My PoE scum list is: Rels, Shockey, Kita, Sicklucker, HtS/maybe you) I'm mostly going off the votes here: - There's a general feel that it is obvious most people will vote no- so scum (as having no QT) are more likely to vote with the general consensus (not sticking out etc.). - Mafia are very likely to vote yes on a mission with a mafia. Unless the consensus is against it. Consensus takes heavy priority over everything for mafia. - Mafia are somewhat likely to vote no on a mission with only town. They can vote yes to look good, especially early on. This can very easily go against consensus ("see, I told you the mission would pass!"). - Mafia are very likely to vote no on a mission with only town, if the situation is dire. - Stand out vote is usually either trolly or complete confidence. I don't think shockey was/had either.
So:
If the team consisted of town, and my PoE is correct: - Mafia is likely: Rels, shockey, sicklucker.
If the team had a mafia, and my PoE is correct: - Mafia is likely: Rels, Kita, Shockey/SL. OR Rels, HtS (who would attempt to frame Kita), shockey/SL.
Alternate world would include both HtS and Kita but eh. Could be, but I don't think so atm. I think rayn's argument as to kita trying to influence the team a lot near deadline is good. I think the fact that none of the team-members votes for the team to pass leans towards a scum being on the team (scum votes as consensus, town votes what they believe, the fact that no one in the team believed therefore leans me more towards a scum being in the team).
I don't understand how you can say "scums are more likely to vote with the general consensus (not sticking out etc.)." and put Shockey in your POE list. You then say "Stand out vote is usually either trolly or complete confidence. I don't think shockey was/had either.", which doesn't explain it. Expand please ?
On November 03 2015 00:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: [quote] Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia.
Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.".
Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went.
That was before the question ... so you really meant that. You know how I play as scum; I wouldn't try to win by making you ragequit / modkilled / whatever, 'cause that wouldn't be a win.
This bothers me very much rayn. How could you think that. You scumread me (partly) for "Rels scumreads me for a dumb meta reason". You know what; I think this is a very dumb meta reason (me trying to make you ragequit).
I have never called you mafia because of it. I am saying you could do that as scum, as kitaman was basically arguing the other way around.
On November 05 2015 01:29 Xatalos wrote: Overall, would be nice to hear more opinions on the current proposal. From you, from Superbia, and others.
I'm leaning towards reject at the moment. I wouldn't feel comfortable passing a team with you still. I think there are better alternatives than sicklucker, though I'm still kinda null on him so he wouldn't totally kill a team. rayn has also owed me a response for a while, so I'm waiting on that.
Preferably I'd be looking at something like Kita/artanis/rayn, though I'm obviously aware that you wouldn't do something like that. Maybe one of HTS/Rels in place of myself if need be (?).
Wait a minute. So your scum team is Superbia / Shockey / SL, since you're townreading everybody else. Can you tell me why would HTS would follow the town sentiment to the point of considering putting herself out of her own team, in the first draft of the first mission ? Especially since, like she said, she didn't have much time to properly think.
On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: The fact is, if you read Rels' posts in this light, there is literally way way way more things that are just plain out fucking scummy.
Expand.
On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: Now the point of all this was a couple of things: - Rels; i didn't learn anything, although he called my logic "twisted", and i still don't know why. maybe he explains it someday, as there is nothing twisted in my logic. (i am pretty sure Xatalos & Artanis see what i was after here) - ShoCkeyy; i don't really care since he is scum anyways, but he thinks i am scum (regardless of what he tries to say -- he does), so why does he accept a team proposed by scum? Like.. if i was scum i would put a teammate there, obviously, i am not stupid. - regarding you, i wanted to push your reads out, because i was annoyed of you not giving any concrete reads. I know you would never agree to this regardless of who is mafia and regardless of your alignment. The thing that confuses me is that you kinda called me scummy for it, when there is literally no scum motivation for me to do that (i actually did a similar "anti-town" thing in Nuclear Winter mafia (which never had any anti-town motivation that anyone could explain) -- and caught Ace pants down on N1 ).
Your logic is twisted because the goal of the game is to pass mission, not fail them. I clearly said there is a town motivation behind your proposal though. So I don't understand why I'm on that list ? Expand.
On November 05 2015 03:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: She thinks both you and kita are town but she picks the person that is least likely to get yay-voted in the team. It makes very little sense.
What would be the mafia motivation to suggest a team with a less optimal chance of success here?
If HtS is mafia it comes down to this: 1) the team of HtS/Xatalos/rayn gets yay'd; me and Xatalos have "almost definitely confirmed scum", which suddenly makes everything HtS says after that a possibility of a big fuckup. She also needs to argue why Xatalos is scum. 2) the team of HtS/kita/rayn gets yay'd; She can actually more conveniently argue that kitaman is scum, because other people think kitaman is scum aswell. She don't even really need to argue, she can just +1 on the points. (the contrary to (1) is that i am not 100% arguing against her) 3) the team of HtS/kita/rayn get's nay'd (which is very very likely in the first place); she doesn't out herself, and passes the turn onto someone else -- she "looks better" to you, which increases her possibilities of getting picked later on as she is "right".
Personally i see the scum motivation in (2) and (3) over (1). If i was at HtS' position i would definitely pick either (2) or (3) over the possibility (1), since regardless of who is scum in this game at that time (and even now) the town is not working very well together.
On November 05 2015 04:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: With boring i mean this;
In contrary, here is a game where Rels argues "in a same way" with someone (n00bking, the final day and a night before). There he tried to take different approaches, tried to find new information, and like... he was fucking arguing while noobking was just sayin "but you lied. [insert 1000 nonsensical words here].
There n00bking was boring, and mafia. Rels was arguing. Here Rels is boring, other people are arguing with him.
You're bad =D At least I'm sure you're town now. But you're suuuuper bad bro.
On November 05 2015 03:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't have much to say to your big post kita. I just disagree. I suggest you go read Rels' scumgames to see what he is capable of: Season of the Witch II[/ur] Battle of Drams
Basically the cases he makes look "good" but they are boring. lol, i can't explain that better. Like here Superbia and to some extent HtS are like furious and spit flames everywhere (like BM in SotW game) when getting into argument with Rels. Rels is just.. boring, and the reasoning is boring. And he makes conclusions that don't make any sense, at all.
Okay I'll take a look.
rayn can you link the fucking post where kita seemed to know my scum game ?
Alright caught up. Now listen: Someone did a post on Xatalos in my game, listing how he never had more than like 10 or 15 pages as scum, and townread him for it. Xatalos was town (he's dead already in my game). So let's check out!
rayn can you answer me now ??? No need to expand on the explanation I asked before, I'm pretty sure you're town. But PLEASE answer the thing I've asked you like 10 times
I guess Artanis is looking pretty townie with his recent posts. Maybe it's a "fear read" or whatever you call it, but I just still have a slight trauma about him being the most townish-looking player in one game and ending up being scum... The I'm a cop you idiot or something game?
Actually I didn't like his last comment implying he knew my town game. I would prefer kita me or shockey in the team.
On November 05 2015 07:28 Half the Sky wrote: I have no idea (still on mobile) who is trying to meta Xatalos but whoever is, the most efficient/effective way is how detailed vs shallow his reads are on people. Not filter length. There have been several cases made against scum Xatalos in Carol and Assassination Mafia on the quality of his reads.
I'm not saying he's scum but just saying that's how you should meta him.
suuuuuuuure you don't know =D do your own meta case if you want, mine has convinced me that guy is town
I guess Artanis is looking pretty townie with his recent posts. Maybe it's a "fear read" or whatever you call it, but I just still have a slight trauma about him being the most townish-looking player in one game and ending up being scum... The I'm a cop you idiot or something game?
Actually I didn't like his last comment implying he knew my town game. I would prefer kita me or shockey in the team.
I'm afraid that's not happening
Did you scumread SL?
No. But I don't understand the "oh that guy is not caring about the game, HERE IS SOME FREE TOWNREADS" trend. I'm pretty sure he's the lowest filter in the game, and I can't remember what he has done except liking my case on HTS and pushing shockey a little.
Xata I wanted to check something else on you but since you're town ... it's settled. Do what you want with the team; I will vote no if you put SL with you and rayn, unless he becomes super townie in the next 24 hours. Isaac then sleep folks, good night (=
Yo folks. This is an ignored player list. I won't answer anything from them until they answer everything I asked them in my filter OR they publicy apologize and call me the greatest french guy ever (it's equivalent to greatest man ever).
On November 05 2015 01:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I actually think the argument has gone off base so far that its depleted its usefulness and we should move onto more productive things.
Superbia, you indicated you think Kita is scum for how he read you. Is there anything else you dislike about him? What do you think about the rest of his reads?
Perhaps you are right in this argument. In any case we should probably not pursue it any further now as it will not help me evaluate Rels in any sort of way.
Kita is still up in the air at this point, he's not in my town circle. (My PoE scum list is: Rels, Shockey, Kita, Sicklucker, HtS/maybe you) I'm mostly going off the votes here: - There's a general feel that it is obvious most people will vote no- so scum (as having no QT) are more likely to vote with the general consensus (not sticking out etc.). - Mafia are very likely to vote yes on a mission with a mafia. Unless the consensus is against it. Consensus takes heavy priority over everything for mafia. - Mafia are somewhat likely to vote no on a mission with only town. They can vote yes to look good, especially early on. This can very easily go against consensus ("see, I told you the mission would pass!"). - Mafia are very likely to vote no on a mission with only town, if the situation is dire. - Stand out vote is usually either trolly or complete confidence. I don't think shockey was/had either.
So:
If the team consisted of town, and my PoE is correct: - Mafia is likely: Rels, shockey, sicklucker.
If the team had a mafia, and my PoE is correct: - Mafia is likely: Rels, Kita, Shockey/SL. OR Rels, HtS (who would attempt to frame Kita), shockey/SL.
Alternate world would include both HtS and Kita but eh. Could be, but I don't think so atm. I think rayn's argument as to kita trying to influence the team a lot near deadline is good. I think the fact that none of the team-members votes for the team to pass leans towards a scum being on the team (scum votes as consensus, town votes what they believe, the fact that no one in the team believed therefore leans me more towards a scum being in the team).
I don't understand how you can say "scums are more likely to vote with the general consensus (not sticking out etc.)." and put Shockey in your POE list. You then say "Stand out vote is usually either trolly or complete confidence. I don't think shockey was/had either.", which doesn't explain it. Expand please ?
sicklucker I don't understand the thing kita said.
On November 05 2015 08:09 sicklucker wrote: super likely mafia. Im positive he has no reason to scum read me he just needs an excuse not to vote the all town team
Information 1: Superbia is mafia, the team is all town from your POV.
On November 05 2015 09:08 sicklucker wrote: oh i liked the xatalos filter thing. i think we should pass this its very likely 3 towns from my pov
Information 2: you townread Xata now, meaning you didn't before.
So I don't understand how you can say "the team is all town", then later "oh actually Xata is town the team is all town".
On November 05 2015 08:09 sicklucker wrote: super likely mafia. Im positive he has no reason to scum read me he just needs an excuse not to vote the all town team
On November 05 2015 09:08 sicklucker wrote: oh i liked the xatalos filter thing. i think we should pass this its very likely 3 towns from my pov
Since this post infers that you didn't see the xatalos analysis until now....why does super need an excuse to reject the SL/xat/rayn team if you thought xat was scum?
Wouldn't a scum super be happy to pass the team you thought had a spy in it?
On November 05 2015 08:09 sicklucker wrote: super likely mafia. Im positive he has no reason to scum read me he just needs an excuse not to vote the all town team
On November 05 2015 09:08 sicklucker wrote: oh i liked the xatalos filter thing. i think we should pass this its very likely 3 towns from my pov
Since this post infers that you didn't see the xatalos analysis until now....why does super need an excuse to reject the SL/xat/rayn team if you thought xat was scum?
Wouldn't a scum super be happy to pass the team you thought had a spy in it?
WHY would scum want a all town team to pass?
You called xata scum though at that point. So it wasn't an all town team from your perspective. Yet you scum read him for wanting to reject it anyways.
he could have proved he was town. but he can also prove hes town when the mission passes so I understand his pov
The question is: why did you say Superbia was scum voting for an all town team IF you thought Xata was scummy ?
On November 05 2015 02:11 ShoCkeyy wrote: I also don't need to place myself on my own team if I'm confident on who is town. Back to work.
The problem that I have here is that you said you would pass every combination except the xat + rayn combo. rayn really seems to be the player you were most suspicious of on day one, yet you sent it through.
Also, don't get discouraged by everyone scum reading you if you are indeed town. People are going to reject pretty much anything you say if the hive mind is against you. Just keep trucking and maybe it will help sometime down the road
The reason I passed it was because if a sabotage happened on the first mission, then that can just fuel the suspicion even more and more people would start to see what I'm talking about. Also, Idc if people scum read me, I've been playing TL Mafia since the mafia forums first opened ;p
What.....?
So you WANT scum on the mission >.>
Shockey, I thought you agreed since you though a fail would prove rayn was scum ? That's not the same explanation at all.
On November 05 2015 22:03 Xatalos wrote: Rels, thoughts on the current team?
rayn and you are town. SL I'm not sure. Nothing scummy, but he's not doing much. Arta tomorrow will probably elect you / rayn / him; my vote will depend on who I think is towniest between SL and Arta at deadline. Waiting on Arta's answers to me + his analysis on me he said he would do.
On November 05 2015 04:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: With boring i mean this;
In contrary, here is a game where Rels argues "in a same way" with someone (n00bking, the final day and a night before). There he tried to take different approaches, tried to find new information, and like... he was fucking arguing while noobking was just sayin "but you lied. [insert 1000 nonsensical words here].
There n00bking was boring, and mafia. Rels was arguing. Here Rels is boring, other people are arguing with him.
You're bad =D At least I'm sure you're town now. But you're suuuuper bad bro.
Alright I've thought about this and I'm way less sure now. Why I thought this confirmed rayn as town is because in this exact game he linked (Newbie XIII), rayn had a very similar post on noobking:
On July 30 2015 04:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: iam sorry for the lynch. not really though, TT was awful. noobking is mafia. mark my words.
On July 30 2015 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: he is obviously a smart guy. he is not playing smart. i cant explain it better.
Which is super similar to his posts on me this game:
On November 05 2015 03:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: Basically the cases he makes look "good" but they are boring. lol, i can't explain that better. Like here Superbia and to some extent HtS are like furious and spit flames everywhere (like BM in SotW game) when getting into argument with Rels. Rels is just.. boring, and the reasoning is boring. And he makes conclusions that don't make any sense, at all.
On November 05 2015 04:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: With boring i mean this;
In contrary, here is a game where Rels argues "in a same way" with someone (n00bking, the final day and a night before). There he tried to take different approaches, tried to find new information, and like... he was fucking arguing while noobking was just sayin "but you lied. [insert 1000 nonsensical words here].
There n00bking was boring, and mafia. Rels was arguing. Here Rels is boring, other people are arguing with him.
But the things he said are not true, and he should know that.
First: Rels does not let go of things when he's town
I assume he's talking about my read on Superbia, which is admittily static: point out something scummy, then wait for what he does next.
On November 02 2015 23:16 Rels wrote: OK this tire me so let's lay out what happened. Timeline.
1. Superbia scumreads Xata for saying "playing scum is a nightmare".
On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia.
3. Superbia uses this to make Xatalos say something he didn't: that being scum isn't nightmarish
On November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote: So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that?
Conclusion That is the problem with Superbia's early play; twisting Xatalos' words to something he didn't mean. Now he turned that read around to townread Xatalos, and rayn is claiming it's not suspicous, which might be right. But this word-twisting stuff is scum indicative.
On November 05 2015 00:27 Superbia wrote: Ugh. That answer does not satisfy me.
Rels- you are here. I am currently still incredibly stuck on your alignment as being mafia, so if you're town, you're going to have to walk me through your analysis of my alignment.
On November 02 2015 23:16 Rels wrote: OK this tire me so let's lay out what happened. Timeline.
1. Superbia scumreads Xata for saying "playing scum is a nightmare".
On November 02 2015 08:18 Superbia wrote: I instantly retract my townread.
On November 02 2015 08:20 Superbia wrote: So it's in no way a "nightmare" for "them". Which you should know, since you have played the game before.
2. Superbia asks Xata if he really thinks it's a nightmare, Xata kinda confirms.
On November 02 2015 08:32 Superbia wrote: Do you really think this game is a nightmare for scum?
On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia.
3. Superbia uses this to make Xatalos say something he didn't: that being scum isn't nightmarish
On November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote: So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that?
Conclusion That is the problem with Superbia's early play; twisting Xatalos' words to something he didn't mean. Now he turned that read around to townread Xatalos, and rayn is claiming it's not suspicous, which might be right. But this word-twisting stuff is scum indicative.
You are so incredibly stuck on me "twisting" Xatalos' words in the beginning of the day- and that it is scum-indicative. However, you evaluate my word twisty-ness from a position in which I would have to be scum and Xat would have to be town (this is why I've been calling TMI on you), while you had no read on Xat. Moreover, that entire scum-read could've been put in the garbage as soon as I started flipping on Xatalos.
On November 03 2015 06:30 Superbia wrote: Rels have you even read my post explain the whole Xat thing? Every single point you're bringing up (as far as I'm reading - p16) seems to be your own weird interpretation on things and I am really disliking it.
This post in particular is incredibly loaded with your own interpretation, and it really feels like you're driving an agenda here (i.e. to scum-push me):
On November 02 2015 22:34 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 20:52 Superbia wrote:
On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance.
...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push.
Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far.
I find this super convenient. Superbia started by scumreading Xata for the nightmare thing, which is understandable. Then there was the "is it still nightmarish ?" "kinda" "now that you've said it's not nightmarish anymore ..." scumread which was super weird. And now that rayn thinks Xata is town for meta, suddenly Xata is town for Superbia too, and I have TMI on him.
Let's break this apart into two pieces:
1. My secondary post on the whole nightmare-ish part is putting into words what I had already expected to have been inside Xatalos' head- that he did not believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. I have explained this.
2. Your TMI has nothing to do with my read on Xatalos whatsoever. The blatant fucking fact is that you are evaluating me for interactions with Xatalos without giving a read on Xatalos. What if he's mafia? Does that change anything for your read on me?
Side note. You exclaim that me beginning to lean town on Xatalos is super convient. In what way? If I am scum, what am I achieving here? Keep in mind that you still have no read on Xatalos (right?). So in what way is me, calling a null for you, super convenient?
Rels, kindly answer the bolded questions and the following: - Please explain, in detail, how what you perceived to be my push on Xatalos makes me mafia. - How was my explanation on the matter inadequate? What did not make sense?
I think there was something else I wanted to ask but I forgot. Maybe I'll remember it later.
I've already discarded the "you town read on Xatalos is convenient" stuff, it wasn't scum indicative. Your read on Xatalos is weird because it is not based on logic. Xatalos is saying it's kinda nightmarish to be scum => you say he said the inverse. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective. It makes sense from a scum perspective that decided to scumread Xatalos, and is twisting things to keep it.
Does not give me anything. It's a cheap and easy way to look at things, and ignore my perfectly good explanation. In fact, you ignore a number of my questions- ones that I still want answered. Pushing town as mafia is something you do- I've seen it done in the previous game we were in. The fact that you are so adamant with such hollow argument irks me so much, especially knowing my own alignment.
I have nothing to add to what I wrote above. You pushed Xatalos on something illogical, then you turned your read around. This is scum indicative and no amount of explanation will change that. Now that is not strong, so I'm waiting to see what you'll do.
rayn is saying the way I push stuff as town is much more active, finding new things and arguing, etc., taking the example on my push on noobking in Newbie XIII:
On November 05 2015 04:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: With boring i mean this;
In contrary, here is a game where Rels argues "in a same way" with someone (n00bking, the final day and a night before). There he tried to take different approaches, tried to find new information, and like... he was fucking arguing while noobking was just sayin "but you lied. [insert 1000 nonsensical words here].
There n00bking was boring, and mafia. Rels was arguing. Here Rels is boring, other people are arguing with him.
He should know that is a flawed analysis though:
I had a very similar push on Barakos in the same game (newbie XIII) on day 1; I pointed out something illogical, then waited to see what he does next. The fact that rayn compares my Superbia push to my noobking push and not my Barakos push is either him having selective memory (if he's town), or him only quoting specific stuff to frame me (if he's scum).
Here are my posts on Barakos:
On July 24 2015 18:00 Rels wrote: Like some other people in the thread, I also found Barakos super weird. Especially since like some guys also playing, I played my first game with him in Newbie X, and in that game he was very logical and straightforward in his posts.
On July 24 2015 08:41 ruXxar wrote: I intentionally attempt to change my meta every game. The ebb, and flow, the flavor, the topping, the innards. Sometime it's just a sparkle on top, taking the edge off, a tone shift, an aggressive approach, a preachy approach. Aggregation of information molded and grinded into the essence of simple axioms I can follow to improve my play and enjoy myself.
You only get as much out of the game as you put into it. I need to engage in my own way. Repetition grows stale, experimentation fosters newfound interest and pathways not previously considered.
My #1 goal is to have fun. In my seeking of that goal I need to be flexible and formless. Able to adapt and implement ideas, mix new and old, step out of my comfort zone to discover the the trails that do not necessarily lead to victory in the short run, but over time complements my play as a whole.
Fair enough. Might still take a look later on in the game. *shrugs* Might depend on how much of an easy/hard time I have reading you later I guess.
So far only 4/13 players have posted. Bit of shame. Might go to bed soonish since I am having a bit of a headache. -.-
Yeah... weather here in germany sucks... I've been feeling like shit the whole day...
And then I come to reread and ruxxars style just gives me more headaches. -.-
Dunno, what to make of it atm, last time someone used poetry in a game it confused the hell out of me and 2 of the 3 reads I got from it were utter bullshit, so for now, I'll not jump to any conclusions about ruxxar, based on that style, but would really appreciate it, if this changes sometime soon...
Kinda strongly dislike rayn for coming in and making an alibi-post, that kinda reads like he won't be here for the rest of the dayphase... let's just hope, that's not the case and there will be more posts from him.
Nocturne coming in and asking lots of questions seems kinda active. But a lot of his posts/ questions are targetet at other peoples opinion about the alignment of person x/y/z, without actually giving his own thoughts...
Disformation - several posts... mostly about ruxxars other games and the difference in tone, also the only one, who openly likes ruxxars style... What I don't like, is that he defends the "bullshitting" in the start of the game. Granted, it's hard to start a conversation early on and you kind of have to do something, to get the thread going, (and you kinda have to give ruxxar credit for this - he created something, people can talk about) but encouraging him to keep this up the whole game seems kinda off to me.
Noobking - totally top town for being able to count, how many people have posted, just to correct disformation!
This post is not how I remember Barakos playing. It's just supposition without conclusions.
On July 24 2015 09:08 Barakos wrote: Kinda strongly dislike rayn for coming in and making an alibi-post, that kinda reads like he won't be here for the rest of the dayphase... let's just hope, that's not the case and there will be more posts from him.
On July 24 2015 18:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: So Barakos claims he is scummy. Barakos why would you make intentionally scummy posts as town?
Obviously to get reactions from people?
And I even got some reactions, that gave me reads about Rels and disformation as I explained in my post...
I expected to get called out on it by the people that played with me in NSM X, so call it a reactiontest, that Rels passed, whereas Tictock, Breshke and disformation failed.
And to answer your next question, which will be, why I only called out disformation and not tictock and breshke as well: Breshke died N2, so he didn't play the whole game with me and tictock only came in, wrote some stuff about tarot and then left without leaving the impression of having read the thread, whereas disformation played the game till endgame.
Rels picking up on this, even though he was lynched N1 in NSM X just shows how attentative he is when reading people.
Alright I think this discussion ends here. I think you're likely to be scum for your first two posts. You claim that it was a reaction test and you will now play like a townie; but outside of commenting my case, you didn't do anything outside of defending yourself today.
So for now my read of you is mafia lean, and no additionnal explanation on past posts will change that. I'll re-evaluate you at EOD.
In Crossfire, a game rayn hosted, I was 3P and I pushed CopCake the way I pushed noobking in newbie XIII; adaptating to what she was saying and continusly pushing her.
Going to go with a plynch all liars through the entire game. Will totally ruin the game because town are lying bitches. But I will do it.
If nobody lies I will use spidersenses.
4 antitown. Way too much anti town kp. First days are a joke.
If there are 9 townies who need to lynch 4 anti townies while these antitownies got 4 kp and are immune to the other antitownies their kp the game is a total joke.
There are also way to many blue roles. Blue roles with completely random effects based on the skill of the player.
So tbh. If I try and lynch anti town D1 I will just get rewarded with a bullet and anti town will start shooting town faster than we can lynch anti town. Doesn't make any fucking sense.
tldr 1: Koshi is going to do absolutely nothing the first days because the game looks like a joke. He might say some random shit about random people. He will appreciate it that when these random people are actually anti town that they won't shoot Koshi.
tldr2: Read tldr 1
You make things easier.
##vote: Koshi
On October 13 2015 10:44 GlowingBear wrote: Wow what a boring start
Going to go with a plynch all liars through the entire game. Will totally ruin the game because town are lying bitches. But I will do it.
If nobody lies I will use spidersenses.
4 antitown. Way too much anti town kp. First days are a joke.
If there are 9 townies who need to lynch 4 anti townies while these antitownies got 4 kp and are immune to the other antitownies their kp the game is a total joke.
There are also way to many blue roles. Blue roles with completely random effects based on the skill of the player.
So tbh. If I try and lynch anti town D1 I will just get rewarded with a bullet and anti town will start shooting town faster than we can lynch anti town. Doesn't make any fucking sense.
tldr 1: Koshi is going to do absolutely nothing the first days because the game looks like a joke. He might say some random shit about random people. He will appreciate it that when these random people are actually anti town that they won't shoot Koshi.
On October 13 2015 09:50 GlowingBear wrote: O hai!
I'm thrall
I assume you are referring to
In which case you used the correct color.
But since you didn't capitalize you could also mean one of these...
Or your telling us you are a slave or surf and have no social standing what-so-ever. In which case I can't be seen talking to you.
On October 13 2015 11:17 Tictock wrote: So I was stupid today guys...
I agreed to pickup an extra shift at work tomorrow morning
I'll poke in once or twice more before bed, but i gotta try and get to sleep soon. Will have a decent chunk of time to sink in after i get done with that though.
On October 14 2015 03:50 deconduo wrote: So I've decided to put in some effort into this game as there's not a massive amount to read yet. In order from towniest to scummiest:
On October 13 2015 09:50 GlowingBear wrote: O hai!
I'm thrall
This post made me go like "WTF I know something is wrong". I need to check stuff.
GB almost used the same opening last game:
On September 29 2015 07:09 GlowingBear wrote: By the way:
O hai!
I'm town
It was actually his second post.
So this might indicate he's not-town replicating something he did as town last game. After all, if he's called out on that, he can always says "I did that to fish for reactions!"
Will see if he ever: - did the same opening two times in a row as town, or - did the same opening as mafia than the last time he was town
OK GB actually uses this opening quite often; and I found three games in a row where he did it, two times as town, then as mafia, so this doesn't mean anything. Sources: + Show Spoiler +
Hammertime mafia as town:
On January 26 2015 08:34 GlowingBear wrote: O hai! I'm town
Mafia Mini Mafia: a miniature game of mafia as town:
On March 06 2015 08:02 GlowingBear wrote: O hai! I'm mafia!
Mafia Mini Mafia2: another miniature game of mafia as mafia:
On April 07 2015 13:05 GlowingBear wrote: Oh, hai!
I'm town
I like that he went to the effort of digging this up, and retracted his earlier read based on it.
Going to go with a plynch all liars through the entire game. Will totally ruin the game because town are lying bitches. But I will do it.
If nobody lies I will use spidersenses.
4 antitown. Way too much anti town kp. First days are a joke.
If there are 9 townies who need to lynch 4 anti townies while these antitownies got 4 kp and are immune to the other antitownies their kp the game is a total joke.
There are also way to many blue roles. Blue roles with completely random effects based on the skill of the player.
So tbh. If I try and lynch anti town D1 I will just get rewarded with a bullet and anti town will start shooting town faster than we can lynch anti town. Doesn't make any fucking sense.
tldr 1: Koshi is going to do absolutely nothing the first days because the game looks like a joke. He might say some random shit about random people. He will appreciate it that when these random people are actually anti town that they won't shoot Koshi.
tldr2: Read tldr 1
You make things easier.
##vote: Koshi
On October 13 2015 10:44 GlowingBear wrote: Wow what a boring start
Going to go with a plynch all liars through the entire game. Will totally ruin the game because town are lying bitches. But I will do it.
If nobody lies I will use spidersenses.
4 antitown. Way too much anti town kp. First days are a joke.
If there are 9 townies who need to lynch 4 anti townies while these antitownies got 4 kp and are immune to the other antitownies their kp the game is a total joke.
There are also way to many blue roles. Blue roles with completely random effects based on the skill of the player.
So tbh. If I try and lynch anti town D1 I will just get rewarded with a bullet and anti town will start shooting town faster than we can lynch anti town. Doesn't make any fucking sense.
tldr 1: Koshi is going to do absolutely nothing the first days because the game looks like a joke. He might say some random shit about random people. He will appreciate it that when these random people are actually anti town that they won't shoot Koshi.
On October 13 2015 09:50 GlowingBear wrote: O hai!
I'm thrall
I assume you are referring to
In which case you used the correct color.
But since you didn't capitalize you could also mean one of these...
Or your telling us you are a slave or surf and have no social standing what-so-ever. In which case I can't be seen talking to you.
On October 13 2015 11:17 Tictock wrote: So I was stupid today guys...
I agreed to pickup an extra shift at work tomorrow morning
I'll poke in once or twice more before bed, but i gotta try and get to sleep soon. Will have a decent chunk of time to sink in after i get done with that though.
Explain your town reads.
More good work here.
On October 13 2015 21:38 Rels wrote: Wow just when I'm done explaining how I don't like a TT's post, I read these:
I am town and I fully comprehend the arguments brought against TT and I find them to be reasonable and believable, I could even follow them. However, I don't understand how 2 other people are voting for TT. Very suspicious by them. Because when they read the arguments that were fully reasonable and believable they should not have believed them and should not have pressured TT at all.
I think both Xatalos and Koshi are very suspicious for jumping on this TT wagon based on very reasonable and believable arguments.
On October 13 2015 08:52 Superbia wrote: I actually can't rly play atm. Be back later tomorrow probably. Don't like Moosy's reaction to Koshi.
On October 13 2015 20:19 Superbia wrote: dun dun dunnnn. Btw: I like koshi. I think I like slam. I still dislike moosy. Moosy did this whole "let's be friends" routine bullshit which I completely disliked. And he did it with 3 separate people. (Hint: he probably doesn't have a read on any of them)
I'm a fan of these posts, as they mirror my own thinking. That's enough for me to lean town for now.
On October 13 2015 23:26 Xatalos wrote: Or overall what's your take on the recent events / main reads?
Reserving judgement based on recent events because I'm still processing it (read: I'm not trying very hard). Main read is CopCake anti-town because their reasoning baffles me (aka there is no reasoning) and I can't understand a train of process that goes:
Suspect A: 1 word brb Suspect B: Crap haiku
Suspect A gets the vote.
Same as above, mirroring my own thoughts and suspicions. Town lean.
On October 13 2015 19:24 Xatalos wrote: I truly hope the VT claims are from anti-town parties / blues since otherwise it's just, frankly, playing against your win condition. It'd be preferable if nobody claimed roles D1 or even after that without good reason.
On October 13 2015 20:00 Koshi wrote: Seriously Xatalos. The explanation is standing in the damn vote. Moosy did completely nothing. He could be town doing completely nothing. Or he could be mafia doing completely nothing.
Town sometimes adds some silly plan in their first post, or try to do something. Mafia doesn't have do to shit so sometimes they forget they actually need to pretend to be town in the start.
Moosy didn't do shit. Hence. He could be mafia. Still didn't do shit when I poked him to do shit. Passive as fuck. Defensive. ezgame.
I am reading this forum on TL Dota so I have no filters. But I am probably 100% right.
I got the opposite picture? He didn't really do anything, but he seemed pretty relaxed despite your attack (not defensive / worried). And I think Mafia very rarely just "forget they need to pretend to look town". Rather, it's much more likely that Mafia do something at least resembling an okayish starter while townies often just explode.
Everything you wrote here has nothing to do with the current situation. You even fucking contradict your read on Moosy and your expectation what a townie would do.
Sure. Some mafia make an OK starting post. Those are the mafia that understand that to look townie you need to start doing some minor shit. The shit mafia or trash 3p don't do that. Moosy didn't do that HENCE he is mafia. QED
Looking "Not worried" and "not defensive" is not alignment indicative at all. I gave him a reason to do something. Instead he continued to do nothing. Like literally nothing.
Could Moosy be town that decided to do literally nothing? Sure. He could be. Do I care? No. Was he my best bet on mafia? Yes. Is he still my best bet of mafia? Maybe, depends if this Xatalos guy decides to play dumb.
I don't think that "doing something" or "playing according to someone else's wishes" is what makes someone townie, especially in the first page of the game or so. What could he have been "doing" exactly? The game had just started.
What really matters is the consistency and motivation of someone's posts. Let's see... As scum, he would have plenty of motivation to appease someone that just started accusing him, or misdirect the attention away, or something. He would likely show some sort of inconsistency when the situation suddenly changes. Instead, he continued doing whatever meaningless he was doing. He wasn't panicked about the situation, and his attitude was consistent. That's why I got the gut feeling he was town.
I disagree with this, but I understand the thought process and feels towny to me.
On October 13 2015 20:09 Xatalos wrote: ##Vote: Sylencia
Oh yeah... This was mostly because I disliked his style of just cautiously/briefly popping into the thread to make some semi-useless comment, then disappear. That and the fact that others who had posted so far had at least something town-leaning going for them.
Again, I disagree with the read, but I like the fact that he's made it and is pushing something.
Overall a bit of filler about the voteapp and other things, but is still making some interesting posts. Slight townlean.
On October 14 2015 02:13 Koshi wrote: No seriously.
He can get behind the wagon on TT except for the fact that there are already 2 people on the wagon, who actually most likely believed the same thing GB believed but didn't have the hesitance of somebody already being on the wagon.
Then GB proceeds to call these 2 people suspicious.
I thought I saw 3 votes on him?
I don't know who are voting him, I just thought his wagon being formed fast is suspicious.
I've already said who I dislike at least until page 7. The others I've just skimmed.
It was a bit of a weird reaction to a two man wagon. I dunno, overall still null.
On October 13 2015 08:52 Superbia wrote: I actually can't rly play atm. Be back later tomorrow probably. Don't like Moosy's reaction to Koshi.
It is the first page Courteous greeting for Koshi You think he is scum?
Hello anti town people
GB is town Alakasamboombam is town Dont stop make it pop tik tok is town.
On October 13 2015 13:40 CopCake wrote: Also Moosy naming me, idk how to take it.
##Superbia
As Rels pointed out, it's a pretty big leap to make those town reads so early. AND claiming VT and voting based on a brb? Meh, to the bottom of the scumpile you go.
Gonna vote for copcake based on the above.
##Vote: copcake
EXCUSE ME I AM A SOULREADER
I look for motivations of why people post what, and sup looked forced, there's no reason for him to say "brb"
and lol if that's ENOUGH for you to vote me then you are mafia
Then how did you remark I suspected GB, then failed to remark I removed suspecion two posts later ?
On October 14 2015 18:09 Rels wrote:
The Copcake is not town compilation case
1. Her initial townreads have no basis Her initial townreads were:
Going to go with a plynch all liars through the entire game. Will totally ruin the game because town are lying bitches. But I will do it.
If nobody lies I will use spidersenses.
4 antitown. Way too much anti town kp. First days are a joke.
If there are 9 townies who need to lynch 4 anti townies while these antitownies got 4 kp and are immune to the other antitownies their kp the game is a total joke.
There are also way to many blue roles. Blue roles with completely random effects based on the skill of the player.
So tbh. If I try and lynch anti town D1 I will just get rewarded with a bullet and anti town will start shooting town faster than we can lynch anti town. Doesn't make any fucking sense.
tldr 1: Koshi is going to do absolutely nothing the first days because the game looks like a joke. He might say some random shit about random people. He will appreciate it that when these random people are actually anti town that they won't shoot Koshi.
tldr2: Read tldr 1
You make things easier.
##vote: Koshi
On October 13 2015 10:44 GlowingBear wrote: Wow what a boring start
Going to go with a plynch all liars through the entire game. Will totally ruin the game because town are lying bitches. But I will do it.
If nobody lies I will use spidersenses.
4 antitown. Way too much anti town kp. First days are a joke.
If there are 9 townies who need to lynch 4 anti townies while these antitownies got 4 kp and are immune to the other antitownies their kp the game is a total joke.
There are also way to many blue roles. Blue roles with completely random effects based on the skill of the player.
So tbh. If I try and lynch anti town D1 I will just get rewarded with a bullet and anti town will start shooting town faster than we can lynch anti town. Doesn't make any fucking sense.
tldr 1: Koshi is going to do absolutely nothing the first days because the game looks like a joke. He might say some random shit about random people. He will appreciate it that when these random people are actually anti town that they won't shoot Koshi.
On October 13 2015 09:50 GlowingBear wrote: O hai!
I'm thrall
I assume you are referring to
In which case you used the correct color.
But since you didn't capitalize you could also mean one of these...
Or your telling us you are a slave or surf and have no social standing what-so-ever. In which case I can't be seen talking to you.
On October 13 2015 11:17 Tictock wrote: So I was stupid today guys...
I agreed to pickup an extra shift at work tomorrow morning
I'll poke in once or twice more before bed, but i gotta try and get to sleep soon. Will have a decent chunk of time to sink in after i get done with that though.
I and others have asked her to explain these weird reads and her explanation is:
On October 14 2015 10:48 CopCake wrote: I already did, your interaction with rels is weird and "a waste of time"
lol, really come and fight me, you are asking questions and in addition like you know HOW I AM AS MAFIA yet you MAFIA READ ME because I have TOWN READS.
DUDE DO YOU EVEN REMEMBER THAT I DIDNT HAVE TOWN READS LAST GAME and I was like pretending I was pissed (actually I was for mossy) but yeah oh no, you are not even considering my filters
too sad, no?
So GB's "interactions with Rels" is what makes GB scummy. Makes sense with the above. A little weird she's not voting me instead of GB, but whatever.
On October 14 2015 03:45 CopCake wrote: Rels and GB being like I suspect GB but I still answer glowing bear questions.
NO FUCKING WAY, you two are also mafia, take back my GB townread.
You're calling me mafia off of an unflipped association. More than that, instead of going after the root of your association, you're going against the consequential read.
I can't take this seriously
what unflipped association?
I don't get it
pls elaborate.
WTF. She just said GB was scummy because of his "interactions with Rels". But wait. There is more:
On October 14 2015 10:58 CopCake wrote: you think rels is town tho.
that makes you mafia.
She thinks I'm town now ???? There is no explanation for that switch. Her original basis for scumreading GB was that both GB and I were scum together. And now she's saying GB is scummy for his interactions with me, which is still her original reason; but she also thinks I'm town.
It doesn't make any kind of sense. There is NO reason for her to scumread GB.
3. She doesn't post much and doesn't answer questions This point doesn't mean shit by itself, by in combinaison to the above, it indicated Copcake is not-town.
Conclusion 1. Townreads with no basis to start the game. 2. No reason for her main scumread. 3. Not very active. Lynch her.
On October 15 2015 03:25 Rels wrote: No shit. Once again you're not reading. You said I was suspecting GB but I was answering his questions, when I rescinded my suspicions two posts after raising them You said I said you townread me, when I also already realized that mistake YOU should be reading my fucking posts
HEH HEH HEH HEH what you said like a few minutes ago? that I townread you?
you are making shit up.
... Are you saying the following: Rels said Copcake is townreading Rels Based on this sentence: You said I said you townread me
On October 15 2015 03:57 Koshi wrote: I take no responsibility in this CC lynch.
Are you kidding me ? She's not reading She doesn't have reason for GB and I to be scum, let alone partners She think I was suspecting GB but answering question which is false She didn't remark I saw she didn't townread me, but she remarked I said she townread me before Nothing makes any sense
On October 14 2015 18:09 Rels wrote: [...] Fuck I misread this! I thought Copcake said "I think Rels is town though", and that was a ridiculous switch. OK so she's actually saying "GB is scum because he thinks Rels is scum". That's still super bad: - why is she not voting me - why did she doubt it was a unflipped association - it wasn't her original case; her original idea was "Rels suspects GB => Rels answers GB's questions => they're scum together", which is false since when I answered GB's questions, I wasn't suspecting him anymore - it doesn't explain why I am mafia, which is the center of her accusation
So you're not reading properly the thread. You're not reading properly my posts.
On October 13 2015 09:50 GlowingBear wrote: O hai!
I'm thrall
This post made me go like "WTF I know something is wrong". I need to check stuff.
GB almost used the same opening last game:
On September 29 2015 07:09 GlowingBear wrote: By the way:
O hai!
I'm town
It was actually his second post.
So this might indicate he's not-town replicating something he did as town last game. After all, if he's called out on that, he can always says "I did that to fish for reactions!"
Will see if he ever: - did the same opening two times in a row as town, or - did the same opening as mafia than the last time he was town
Ok, here he suspected GB.
I have already said why I did suspect GB btw, and is because we were mafia together last game and guess what? he should know my meta, and GB's one of his first posts was "what do you think of cake, Xata?" like HE KNOWS ME AND XATA HAVE PLAYED MAFIA BEFORE where the fuck does he has that info?
HUH HUH HUH HUH?
And you suspected GB yet you answered his questions, honestly when someone I think is mafia i tell them to shut up ans answer "me"
You saw this post but you didn't see the very next one ??????? Not even the next one in my filter. The next one in the fucking thread. Impossible. Die
On October 15 2015 05:09 Rels wrote: At the beginning of the game I put suspicion on GB:
On October 13 2015 09:50 GlowingBear wrote: O hai!
I'm thrall
This post made me go like "WTF I know something is wrong". I need to check stuff.
GB almost used the same opening last game:
On September 29 2015 07:09 GlowingBear wrote: By the way:
O hai!
I'm town
It was actually his second post.
So this might indicate he's not-town replicating something he did as town last game. After all, if he's called out on that, he can always says "I did that to fish for reactions!"
Will see if he ever: - did the same opening two times in a row as town, or - did the same opening as mafia than the last time he was town
On October 13 2015 09:50 GlowingBear wrote: O hai!
I'm thrall
This post made me go like "WTF I know something is wrong". I need to check stuff.
GB almost used the same opening last game:
On September 29 2015 07:09 GlowingBear wrote: By the way:
O hai!
I'm town
It was actually his second post.
So this might indicate he's not-town replicating something he did as town last game. After all, if he's called out on that, he can always says "I did that to fish for reactions!"
Will see if he ever: - did the same opening two times in a row as town, or - did the same opening as mafia than the last time he was town
OK GB actually uses this opening quite often; and I found three games in a row where he did it, two times as town, then as mafia, so this doesn't mean anything. Sources: + Show Spoiler +
Hammertime mafia as town:
On January 26 2015 08:34 GlowingBear wrote: O hai! I'm town
Mafia Mini Mafia: a miniature game of mafia as town:
On March 06 2015 08:02 GlowingBear wrote: O hai! I'm mafia!
Mafia Mini Mafia2: another miniature game of mafia as mafia:
On April 07 2015 13:05 GlowingBear wrote: Oh, hai!
I'm town
Now CopCake's reasons for scumreading is that I answered GB's questions when I suspected him. As seen above, that is false. She said it in one of her first posts:
On October 13 2015 09:50 GlowingBear wrote: O hai!
I'm thrall
This post made me go like "WTF I know something is wrong". I need to check stuff.
GB almost used the same opening last game:
On September 29 2015 07:09 GlowingBear wrote: By the way:
O hai!
I'm town
It was actually his second post.
So this might indicate he's not-town replicating something he did as town last game. After all, if he's called out on that, he can always says "I did that to fish for reactions!"
Will see if he ever: - did the same opening two times in a row as town, or - did the same opening as mafia than the last time he was town
Ok, here he suspected GB.
I have already said why I did suspect GB btw, and is because we were mafia together last game and guess what? he should know my meta, and GB's one of his first posts was "what do you think of cake, Xata?" like HE KNOWS ME AND XATA HAVE PLAYED MAFIA BEFORE where the fuck does he has that info?
HUH HUH HUH HUH?
And you suspected GB yet you answered his questions, honestly when someone I think is mafia i tell them to shut up ans answer "me"
So: 1. Her reason to scumread me (he answered the questions of someone he is suspicious of) is not alignement indicative and is false.
2. CopCake saw that post where I put suspicions on GB, but missed the next post in the thread where I removed it. She's not reading the thread properly, which is not-town indicative. Another example: she saw the post where I thought she was townreading me, but didn't see the post when I realized I was wrong.
3. I said multiple times that I didn't suspect GB for more than one post. Multiple people have also asked her about her reasons to scumread me. She is not willing to re evaluate; she decided "Rels is scum", and doesn't change her mind when people tell her she's missing something
On October 15 2015 04:32 CopCake wrote: I have already said why I did suspect GB btw, and is because we were mafia together last game and guess what? he should know my meta, and GB's one of his first posts was "what do you think of cake, Xata?" like HE KNOWS ME AND XATA HAVE PLAYED MAFIA BEFORE where the fuck does he has that info?
I don't understand that GB scumread too. Is she implying GB and XATA are partners ? But I thought GB and I were partners ? Cause that what I understood by "HE KNOWS ME AND XATA HAVE PLAYED MAFIA BEFORE where the fuck does he has that info?"
On October 13 2015 09:50 GlowingBear wrote: O hai!
I'm thrall
This post made me go like "WTF I know something is wrong". I need to check stuff.
GB almost used the same opening last game:
On September 29 2015 07:09 GlowingBear wrote: By the way:
O hai!
I'm town
It was actually his second post.
So this might indicate he's not-town replicating something he did as town last game. After all, if he's called out on that, he can always says "I did that to fish for reactions!"
Will see if he ever: - did the same opening two times in a row as town, or - did the same opening as mafia than the last time he was town
Ok, here he suspected GB.
I have already said why I did suspect GB btw, and is because we were mafia together last game and guess what? he should know my meta, and GB's one of his first posts was "what do you think of cake, Xata?" like HE KNOWS ME AND XATA HAVE PLAYED MAFIA BEFORE where the fuck does he has that info?
HUH HUH HUH HUH?
And you suspected GB yet you answered his questions, honestly when someone I think is mafia i tell them to shut up ans answer "me"
This is super weak Cake. Your assuming he asked because he knows something about your past. What if he just wanted to see what Xata's opinion was?
The only way this makes GB scum is if he's scum with Xatalos right ? Or do I miss something. Cause that seems super dumb to me, in addition to not making sense with her "GB + Rels" theory
Yea this is true...
I'll ponder this in my last hour of work.
Cake if you are town you really need to explain what made you think GB and Rels were a team.
OK that what I though. Copcake is the best lynch today. This doesn't make sense, in addition to everything I've said before. Gobble needs to die, but that might be a job for the CPR doc. Onegu also needs to die if he doesn't do the effort he promised.
rayn not considering I'm capable on doing that as scum (3P in the case of Crossfire) is either him considering Crossfire's setup or 3P is too different to be compared to standard scum gameplay (if he's town), or him knowingly forgetting how I acted in a game he hosted on purpose (if he's scum).
This alone does not make rayn scum, as he's always super convinced of his reads; he could be super tunneled on me. But this biased meta analysis on me + the fact that he consider both HTS and I scum when he said scums wouldn't necessarily bus in this setup + him saying kita knows my scum meta then refusing to provide a source + him dodging like 15 questions from me + the fact that he is leading the thread and doing what he wants makes me super suspicious.
rayn, if you want to discuss, you need to: 1 - answer all the questions I've asked you in my filter 2 - if you still scumread me, explain it without relying on biaised meta
On November 06 2015 00:34 Xatalos wrote: So I guess he WANTS the first mission to fail... No matter what...
Yeah that what he said super early in the game already. But I've seen a recent post where he rescinded that a little, which made me nervous ... will check that out
On November 05 2015 02:11 ShoCkeyy wrote: I also don't need to place myself on my own team if I'm confident on who is town. Back to work.
The problem that I have here is that you said you would pass every combination except the xat + rayn combo. rayn really seems to be the player you were most suspicious of on day one, yet you sent it through.
Also, don't get discouraged by everyone scum reading you if you are indeed town. People are going to reject pretty much anything you say if the hive mind is against you. Just keep trucking and maybe it will help sometime down the road
The reason I passed it was because if a sabotage happened on the first mission, then that can just fuel the suspicion even more and more people would start to see what I'm talking about. Also, Idc if people scum read me, I've been playing TL Mafia since the mafia forums first opened ;p
OK I misread he is actually saying the same thing as before.
On November 06 2015 00:51 Xatalos wrote: Isn't that case just kind of like a list of non-alignment indicative things, Rels...? How's that making him super suspicious?
Read it ? rayn is saying I'm scum 'cause my cases are boring, when it's false in both ways (I can make Superbia-like case as town, I can make evolving push as scum); and he should know it's false, since he's played in the game of the first example (and used a push of this game to explain his meta read on me), and hosted the game of the second example.
On November 06 2015 00:51 Xatalos wrote: Isn't that case just kind of like a list of non-alignment indicative things, Rels...? How's that making him super suspicious?
Read it ? rayn is saying I'm scum 'cause my cases are boring, when it's false in both ways (I can make Superbia-like case as town, I can make evolving push as scum); and he should know it's false, since he's played in the game of the first example (and used a push of this game to explain his meta read on me), and hosted the game of the second example.
But both examples end with "he could be tunneled town or scum"...?
And I agree, even a mistaken push doesn't really make scum. If you're town, it's obviously mistaken from your POV, but even so it's not scum-making. And it's pretty hard to establish your innocence IMO with your massively active scumgames >.>
Exactly. If he's town, he'll realize he's wrong and move on to either scumread me for other reasons, or drop the scumread; something that is way harder to do as scum when you have your reads mapped out strategically.
On November 06 2015 00:51 Xatalos wrote: Isn't that case just kind of like a list of non-alignment indicative things, Rels...? How's that making him super suspicious?
Read it ? rayn is saying I'm scum 'cause my cases are boring, when it's false in both ways (I can make Superbia-like case as town, I can make evolving push as scum); and he should know it's false, since he's played in the game of the first example (and used a push of this game to explain his meta read on me), and hosted the game of the second example.
You don't even know what i am referring to. It has nothing to do with a push being static or anything. Your cases are based on bad stuff, they are not intelligent at all. You fail to notice stuff that is actually scummy and you make bad pushes based on bad things. You are boring. You don't say anything smart.
Yoiur questions are uninteresting, and i don't even know what they are. I have never said kitaman knows your town meta. Ever.
On November 03 2015 00:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: [quote] yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right?
Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game.
Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia.
Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.".
Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went.
That was before the question ... so you really meant that. You know how I play as scum; I wouldn't try to win by making you ragequit / modkilled / whatever, 'cause that wouldn't be a win.
This bothers me very much rayn. How could you think that. You scumread me (partly) for "Rels scumreads me for a dumb meta reason". You know what; I think this is a very dumb meta reason (me trying to make you ragequit).
I have never called you mafia because of it. I am saying you could do that as scum, as kitaman was basically arguing the other way around.
On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: The fact is, if you read Rels' posts in this light, there is literally way way way more things that are just plain out fucking scummy.
On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: Now the point of all this was a couple of things: - Rels; i didn't learn anything, although he called my logic "twisted", and i still don't know why. maybe he explains it someday, as there is nothing twisted in my logic. (i am pretty sure Xatalos & Artanis see what i was after here) - ShoCkeyy; i don't really care since he is scum anyways, but he thinks i am scum (regardless of what he tries to say -- he does), so why does he accept a team proposed by scum? Like.. if i was scum i would put a teammate there, obviously, i am not stupid. - regarding you, i wanted to push your reads out, because i was annoyed of you not giving any concrete reads. I know you would never agree to this regardless of who is mafia and regardless of your alignment. The thing that confuses me is that you kinda called me scummy for it, when there is literally no scum motivation for me to do that (i actually did a similar "anti-town" thing in Nuclear Winter mafia (which never had any anti-town motivation that anyone could explain) -- and caught Ace pants down on N1 ).
Your logic is twisted because the goal of the game is to pass mission, not fail them. I clearly said there is a town motivation behind your proposal though. So I don't understand why I'm on that list ? Expand.
On November 05 2015 03:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: She thinks both you and kita are town but she picks the person that is least likely to get yay-voted in the team. It makes very little sense.
What would be the mafia motivation to suggest a team with a less optimal chance of success here?
If HtS is mafia it comes down to this: 1) the team of HtS/Xatalos/rayn gets yay'd; me and Xatalos have "almost definitely confirmed scum", which suddenly makes everything HtS says after that a possibility of a big fuckup. She also needs to argue why Xatalos is scum. 2) the team of HtS/kita/rayn gets yay'd; She can actually more conveniently argue that kitaman is scum, because other people think kitaman is scum aswell. She don't even really need to argue, she can just +1 on the points. (the contrary to (1) is that i am not 100% arguing against her) 3) the team of HtS/kita/rayn get's nay'd (which is very very likely in the first place); she doesn't out herself, and passes the turn onto someone else -- she "looks better" to you, which increases her possibilities of getting picked later on as she is "right".
Personally i see the scum motivation in (2) and (3) over (1). If i was at HtS' position i would definitely pick either (2) or (3) over the possibility (1), since regardless of who is scum in this game at that time (and even now) the town is not working very well together.
On November 03 2015 00:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: Did anyone actually look at the game and why i got mad there?
Yeah you messed up the vote timing I think? Well, you basically lost because of it, so I can understand getting angry in that situation.
yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right?
Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game.
Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia.
Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.".
somehow you didn't manage to figure it out.
Yeah. It doesn't make sense. You know as scum I push for the easy targets. You've played or hosted all the games I've been scum / 3P. So it makes no sense you would say this in response:
Yeah you messed up the vote timing I think? Well, you basically lost because of it, so I can understand getting angry in that situation.
yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right?
Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game.
Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia.
Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.".
Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went.
That was before the question ... so you really meant that. You know how I play as scum; I wouldn't try to win by making you ragequit / modkilled / whatever, 'cause that wouldn't be a win.
This bothers me very much rayn. How could you think that. You scumread me (partly) for "Rels scumreads me for a dumb meta reason". You know what; I think this is a very dumb meta reason (me trying to make you ragequit).
I have never called you mafia because of it. I am saying you could do that as scum, as kitaman was basically arguing the other way around.
On November 06 2015 01:10 ShoCkeyy wrote: Hmmm rayn is starting to get mad again...
Yes i am. Which is why i am going to leave now.
I hope the townies can see what the correct way to vote here is.
1 - You have 3 more questions to answer 2 - It doesn't make sense you say "he could do that as scum" talking about me pushing a thread leader, when you know I don't play that way.
On November 06 2015 01:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like Rels, the fucking conversation you referred to is really fucking straight forward. Somehow you manage to not understand it at all.
This is why i don't answer stupid questions. I don't want to waste time on fucking bullshit that doesn't have anything to do with anything. THE POST I WAS REFERRING TO IS IN THE NESTED QUOTES AND IT WAS VERY FUCKING CLEAR WHERE I WAS REFERRING TO BECAUSE IT IS IN THE SAME FUCKING CONVERSATION.
You make easy things hard. Stop.
No. You are either wrong or scum. You cannot think my scum game is PUSHING THREAD LEADERS. So if you're town, go reread my scum games and come back admitting you've made a mistake. If you're scum, feel free to do whatever.
On November 06 2015 01:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: Fucking easiest thing to find in kitaman's filter.
On November 03 2015 00:15 kitaman27 wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:12 Xatalos wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:07 Xatalos wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: Did anyone actually look at the game and why i got mad there?
Yeah you messed up the vote timing I think? Well, you basically lost because of it, so I can understand getting angry in that situation.
yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right?
Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game.
Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia.
Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.".
somehow you didn't manage to figure it out.
Yeah. It doesn't make sense. You know as scum I push for the easy targets. You've played or hosted all the games I've been scum / 3P. So it makes no sense you would say this in response:
On November 03 2015 18:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 18:21 Rels wrote:
On November 03 2015 18:16 Rels wrote:
On November 03 2015 18:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:15 kitaman27 wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:12 Xatalos wrote: [quote]
Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game.
Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia.
Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.".
Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went.
That was before the question ... so you really meant that. You know how I play as scum; I wouldn't try to win by making you ragequit / modkilled / whatever, 'cause that wouldn't be a win.
This bothers me very much rayn. How could you think that. You scumread me (partly) for "Rels scumreads me for a dumb meta reason". You know what; I think this is a very dumb meta reason (me trying to make you ragequit).
I have never called you mafia because of it. I am saying you could do that as scum, as kitaman was basically arguing the other way around.
I don't give any fucks. You do scummy shit in this game. You are scum.
One of the questions you didn't answer is "expand". So do it.
On November 06 2015 01:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: Fucking easiest thing to find in kitaman's filter.
On November 03 2015 00:15 kitaman27 wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:12 Xatalos wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:07 Xatalos wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: Did anyone actually look at the game and why i got mad there?
Yeah you messed up the vote timing I think? Well, you basically lost because of it, so I can understand getting angry in that situation.
yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right?
Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game.
Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia.
Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.".
somehow you didn't manage to figure it out.
Yeah. It doesn't make sense. You know as scum I push for the easy targets. You've played or hosted all the games I've been scum / 3P. So it makes no sense you would say this in response:
On November 03 2015 18:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 18:21 Rels wrote:
On November 03 2015 18:16 Rels wrote:
On November 03 2015 18:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:15 kitaman27 wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: [quote] Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia.
Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.".
Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went.
That was before the question ... so you really meant that. You know how I play as scum; I wouldn't try to win by making you ragequit / modkilled / whatever, 'cause that wouldn't be a win.
This bothers me very much rayn. How could you think that. You scumread me (partly) for "Rels scumreads me for a dumb meta reason". You know what; I think this is a very dumb meta reason (me trying to make you ragequit).
I have never called you mafia because of it. I am saying you could do that as scum, as kitaman was basically arguing the other way around.
I don't give any fucks. You do scummy shit in this game. You are scum.
One of the questions you didn't answer is "expand". So do it.
The third is "why am I on a list on people failing the 'rayn's plan is scummy!' test when I said it was town motivated ?" The fourth is "do you really picture me and HTS scum together ?"
On November 06 2015 01:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like Rels, the fucking conversation you referred to is really fucking straight forward. Somehow you manage to not understand it at all.
This is why i don't answer stupid questions. I don't want to waste time on fucking bullshit that doesn't have anything to do with anything. THE POST I WAS REFERRING TO IS IN THE NESTED QUOTES AND IT WAS VERY FUCKING CLEAR WHERE I WAS REFERRING TO BECAUSE IT IS IN THE SAME FUCKING CONVERSATION.
You make easy things hard. Stop.
No. You are either wrong or scum. You cannot think my scum game is PUSHING THREAD LEADERS. So if you're town, go reread my scum games and come back admitting you've made a mistake. If you're scum, feel free to do whatever.
+ SL explains the kita's question, 'cause actually his explanation makes no sense.
Superbia you have one question waiting for you. SL you have one question from kita waiting for you. rayn you have one admittance + 3 questions just for you. Lucky you!
On November 05 2015 08:03 Superbia wrote: This one is probably going to get rejected straight out bc there's a good chance SL will just continue to lurk. =/ Artanis would've gotten some votes.
On November 05 2015 08:09 sicklucker wrote: super likely mafia. Im positive he has no reason to scum read me he just needs an excuse not to vote the all town team
So these were the posts that came within 6 minutes of each other. Super said the team would get rejected with SL, but Artanis would have gotten votes instead.
Now how could you think the team was SL/rayn/artanis if super is stating that artanis should have been included in the same exact post that you respond that he is scum?
On November 06 2015 01:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like Rels, the fucking conversation you referred to is really fucking straight forward. Somehow you manage to not understand it at all.
This is why i don't answer stupid questions. I don't want to waste time on fucking bullshit that doesn't have anything to do with anything. THE POST I WAS REFERRING TO IS IN THE NESTED QUOTES AND IT WAS VERY FUCKING CLEAR WHERE I WAS REFERRING TO BECAUSE IT IS IN THE SAME FUCKING CONVERSATION.
You make easy things hard. Stop.
No. You are either wrong or scum. You cannot think my scum game is PUSHING THREAD LEADERS. So if you're town, go reread my scum games and come back admitting you've made a mistake. If you're scum, feel free to do whatever.
I don't think pushing leaders is that hard to do as scum anyway... Even if you don't usually do it, there's nothing inherently stopping you from doing that here... So I kind of fail to see how a disagreement over your meta makes him scum or even suspicious?
Again; he's wrong in assuming that's something I would do as scum. If he's town, he will re evaluate.
On November 05 2015 22:29 Half the Sky wrote: On the topic of Artanis, I know he said he'd free up more Thursday so I look forward to reading more from him. Can't recall if he has capoeira today though, IRL he has been on a tear with that.
Which means if he drops by in the UK, his first objective will be to dropkick me. Damn it.
Nope, I'm gonna mostly have time for the next four hours. I may drop by to dropkick you anyway though
Oh jesus rels is involved in everything as mafia too x_x
How do you know I'm involved in everything as town as well ? I'm pretty sure we never played together ??
Two things: A) I assume most people have far more involved town games than scumgames. My townread on you came from the fact that you seem very active and involved in almost every discussion. That's generally enough to townread most players. B) I have seen you play town before, though I haven't played with you. I'm not sure which game I was observing anymore but I have done so. Also C) I never called you scum. I said you're back to null because what I thought made you town is apparently not alignment indicative.
OK that makes sense. Security check: can you link me to the game in question ? All my games are in my profile so that should take you like 5 seconds. Im also pretty sure you said you would be reading my filter and evaluating me. Will you do it, or are you pulling a Hts ?
On November 06 2015 02:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Rels, why did you flip your Rayn read based on things that had already happened before you townread him initially? What made you think about him again? Your argument's revolved around things he should know, but no part of your argument was new to when you said he was definitely town.
I'm on phone so no quote: read my big post. The first line is something like "I thought he was confirmed because he made a very similar post about noobking in newbie XIII". But actually its super suspicious that he uses this game to prove that my case are boring, when my play D1 this game was boring. Now he defends himself saying "But its not THIS kind of boring!", when he clearly said in example of me being town " look how he's always looking for something new on noobking". I get that this is not very clear without quote; read my big post and the reactions after it to understand.
On November 06 2015 02:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Rels, why did you flip your Rayn read based on things that had already happened before you townread him initially? What made you think about him again? Your argument's revolved around things he should know, but no part of your argument was new to when you said he was definitely town.
I'm on phone so no quote: read my big post. The first line is something like "I thought he was confirmed because he made a very similar post about noobking in newbie XIII". But actually its super suspicious that he uses this game to prove that my case are boring, when my play D1 this game was boring. Now he defends himself saying "But its not THIS kind of boring!", when he clearly said in example of me being town " look how he's always looking for something new on noobking". I get that this is not very clear without quote; read my big post and the reactions after it to understand.
Yeah but what made you think about this? He hadn't said anything new since your last post.
I don't know. I just thought about it and realized it didn't make sense to take as example a push of mine in one game, and forget another one in the same game that was the opposite.
On my bed right now; will post the day post in my game then sleep. So I'm still there 10 minutes for additional questions. I think the team is some kind of rayn / Hts / superbia / sl. Xata and kita are town. I think arta and shockey are town, but I would like to see more from both of them.
On November 06 2015 06:52 Rels wrote: On my bed right now; will post the day post in my game then sleep. So I'm still there 10 minutes for additional questions. I think the team is some kind of rayn / Hts / superbia / sl. Xata and kita are town. I think arta and shockey are town, but I would like to see more from both of them.
Still at Rels/Shockey/TBD but I know I have to catch up. Referenced to figure out the last partner.
Also nice because if I'm wrong on one of my townreads, this could be a good place to start too.
sicklucker still not saying much? I see he answered my question fine but I think Artanis or Kita had followups that he didn't answer.
Shockey (in skimming) not saying much as a scum tell might indicate he's trying to not give partners away.
Someone else had a question for me - rayn? or was it Artanis? damn I hate mobile.
If Rels is scumlisting SL though, it probably means he'll be voting down the team (at least based on his most recent posts) and SL is town.
Which means the final mafia would point me in the direction of Kita/Xata/Artanis (wtf maybe I'm wrong somewhere??) or he's just scumlisting Superbia to disassociate from him since Superbia isn't on the team.
Wow HTS is seeing everything in this game through the "Rels is scum" glasses. She put suspicion on SL ("he didn't answer stuff from Artanis or Kita") then townread him with "whatever Rels is suspicious of him".
On November 06 2015 07:59 Half the Sky wrote: Oh wow, just caught Rels' post #1242 - self-meta is usually a scum tell and especially for a player of his calibre (decent mafia play). Wouldn't buy that one for a second.
Self-meta as in he's aware and he easily has the ability to break that.
Here she's twisting the way I use self-meta; I don't use it to prove I'm town, but to prove rayn's scumread on me is based on wrong things.
On November 06 2015 08:00 Tictock wrote: Day 1 Xatalos Nomination (Xatalos, rayn, sicklucker) Vote Result
Half the Sky - YES Xatalos - YES Artanis[Xp] - YES raynpelikoneet - YES ShoCkeyy - NO Rels - NO sicklucker - YES kitaman27 - NO Superbia - NO
MISSION IS APPROVED
Xatalos, raynpelikoneet, and sicklucker will be embarking on Mission 1 Mission will be completed in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 6 November 2015.
Suuuuper interesting! With such a close vote, we'll have a lot of infos depending on how the team does. Let's see.
If the team pass there are two solutions: - it's a clean team; then there have to be 2 mafias in Shockey / kita / Superbia. Maybe 3, but it's possible one mafia went for the towncred instead if he thought the team would pass even if he voted no; since in this case, he's not on the team, it would be HTS or Arta. Given how HTS posted about her opinions on the vote, I don't see her voting "yes" in that situation when she had the perfect opportunity to vote "no" to a clean team. So if one mafia voted "yes" to a clean team, it would be Arta. - there is 1 (or more) scum in the team but he didn't make the mission failed: unlikely. The goal of the game is to win three missions for both team; exchanging town cred for 1 failure out of 3 doesn't seem to be worth it. It that happens, I think it makes Artanis town, since the plan would be to make Arta pick the same team + himself, fail the mission, and put the blame on him. So if the team passes the mission, then fails the next with SL / rayn / Xata / Arta, it probably means Arta's alignment will be determinent to solving the game; it's either Arta being mafia going for the towncred; or Arta being town on which mafia are trying to put the blame. Figuring this out in this case will be crucial. If the team passes the mission, then passes the next with SL / rayn / Xata / Arta, there are all town and the game is won. That would be cool. (=
If the team fails: There is one confirmed mafia in Xata / rayn / SL, maybe 2. There has to be at least 2 mafias in Xata / rayn / SL / HTS / Arta, probably 3 since, as said above, the towncred lost by voting a failure team is more than compensated by the 1 win out of 3 needed. That doesn't apply if one scum thought the team would pass even if he voted "no" though.
That's where I'm at. Not going further until tomorrow.
On November 06 2015 08:05 Half the Sky wrote: Superbia, why did you vote it down? Unless it's already apparent in your filter and I just need to open another tab on mobile...
There's literally no point in voting yes? Like look at the next on the leader circulation. I'd rather get as much voting logic as possible.
I like that reasonning. Can you go back and answer what I've found weird about your big post ?
On November 06 2015 08:04 Half the Sky wrote: Nice.
So we have a scumteam of Rels/Shockey and one of Kita/Superbia. At least it's looking that way.
I'm thinking Artanis should nominate himself, rayn and Xatalos. That is my first impression.
How can you even tell, the mission hasn't even passed. If anything this "scum team" suggestion of yours is your scummiest post already trying to claim others as scum when mission not even done.... PSH... You swear that a mafia member won't be on a team.
++ HTS immediately thinking of sending another team instead of waiting for the currect one to finish is super scummy. And it doesn't make sense.
On November 06 2015 08:30 Fidei86 wrote: Apologies, host miscommunication. Xalatos, Rayn and sicklucker have until next dawn to submit actions. Next nomination phase will not start until end of action phase. In other words, Artanis has 24 hrs from tomorrow at 2300 to submit team for mission 2.
On November 06 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote: Ah got it James. <3
I'd say at least 2. I think maayyyybe one was smart enough to suck it up and pass? Could be SL for all we know.
And that's a really good question to Shockey, Xata.
That doesn't make sense. If SL is mafia and "suck it up and pass" the team, then he didn't "suck it up", he voted "yes" to a team with a scum in it. You seem to assume: - SL is town, since you're wondering whether 2 or 3 mafias voted against it, so it has to be a clean team - SL is mafia, since he could have suck it up and pass Or is there another logical explanation for this post ? 'cause I'm not seeing it
On November 03 2015 03:15 ShoCkeyy wrote: I'm pretty much going to reject the xata/rayn combo wombo. I'd rather see the first team mentioned - hts,super,xata go through. At least if a sabotage happens, we definitely have a good chance of finding the mafia until the next mission.
Hmmm... I guess there is an explanation at least.... Of some sort...
So if I got this right... shockeyy would only vote for missions where there's one of me/rayn, but not both......? shockeyy?
Yes, but if you used your brain, you would understand why... If both of you are on a mission together and one mission gets sabotaged, then it's hard to differentiate wether or not you both sabotaged it. If you go on solo missions, rather than together, it makes it easier to see if you or rayn are mafia. Obviously you both got you wanted and are now butt buddies on the same team.
OK.
Shockey, your way of thinking doesn't make sense in this game. The primary goal is not to find scums, it's to win three missions. If you vote three missions with one scum each to "find out the scums", you solve the game; but you lose it in the same time. Now I'm not saying this makes you scum. Actually that's a town mindset: solving the game by finding out who is scum. But even if it's super captivating, it's flawed. You win by winning three missions. If you push your reasonning, it's better to vote yes to a team that has two scums inside than one scum inside, since you can get rid of these three players and have a good shot of winning the next three missions. I think it's twisted, since the goal of the game is to win missions, and finding scums is the way to achieve it, not the opposite; but I see the town motivation behind it.
Please think about it. Pushing for teams with only one scum in it is exactly what scums want.
On November 05 2015 08:03 Superbia wrote: This one is probably going to get rejected straight out bc there's a good chance SL will just continue to lurk. =/ Artanis would've gotten some votes.
On November 05 2015 08:09 sicklucker wrote: super likely mafia. Im positive he has no reason to scum read me he just needs an excuse not to vote the all town team
So these were the posts that came within 6 minutes of each other. Super said the team would get rejected with SL, but Artanis would have gotten votes instead.
Now how could you think the team was SL/rayn/artanis if super is stating that artanis should have been included in the same exact post that you respond that he is scum?
On November 06 2015 15:05 sicklucker wrote: Im sure this mission passes but if rayn and xata are putting me up as the fall guy as thread sentiment seems they better be prepared for the massive amount of shit that will transpire
You have any post from them saying that ? Cause I had the same feeling, but from HTS:
On November 06 2015 08:24 Half the Sky wrote: Independent of the vote, there's plenty to suggest Xatalos/rayn are town, so the main doubt was sicklucker. If the mission is sabotaged, it makes it pretty obvious where it'd be but then that also circles to the point raised as to why the next team is selected right away.
On November 06 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote: Ah got it James. <3
I'd say at least 2. I think maayyyybe one was smart enough to suck it up and pass? Could be SL for all we know.
And that's a really good question to Shockey, Xata.
She justified this by saying "there's plenty to suggest Xatalos/rayn are town". She explained that for rayn, but when I made my filter length analysis on Xata she posted this:
On November 05 2015 07:28 Half the Sky wrote: I have no idea (still on mobile) who is trying to meta Xatalos but whoever is, the most efficient/effective way is how detailed vs shallow his reads are on people. Not filter length. There have been several cases made against scum Xatalos in Carol and Assassination Mafia on the quality of his reads.
I'm not saying he's scum but just saying that's how you should meta him.
On November 05 2015 07:28 Half the Sky wrote: I have no idea (still on mobile) who is trying to meta Xatalos but whoever is, the most efficient/effective way is how detailed vs shallow his reads are on people. Not filter length. There have been several cases made against scum Xatalos in Carol and Assassination Mafia on the quality of his reads.
I'm not saying he's scum but just saying that's how you should meta him.
suuuuuuuure you don't know =D do your own meta case if you want, mine has convinced me that guy is town
Since then, she doesn't do any analysis on Xata, but somehow he's so confirmed town that you have to be the scum if the mission fail. Actually, let me check her read progression.
On November 02 2015 23:29 Xatalos wrote: What's your read on me btw, HTS? Would be nice to hear your reads on every player before the team suggestion really.
Right now? nullish - I want to look a little more closely at any conclusions you make on people and how you get there before I'm a little more comfortable. At least I'll know I'll be getting to that sooner.
Actually l'll take this a bit further:
Town/Resistance: rayn Sueprbia (will review the TMI argument)
On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance.
...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push.
Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far.
Yeah I was town and got shot eventually. Why does that make me townie?
On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance.
...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push.
Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far.
Yeah I was town and got shot eventually. Why does that make me townie?
Your posting style and activity level seems similar to that game. Mind you that I've read/skimmed maybe 7-8 pages, so I'm not confident enough to give you a lot of townie-points.
Okay, that makes sense.
Alright, these questions are quite town. I know Rels argued TMI from Superbia. So at least I know to flag that argument reviewing Rels later...
The only question I'd pose to Superbia is asking him how he knows Xata isn't breaking meta but maybe he hasn't reached that point yet.
I'm not going to meta read Xata, largely because I'd be biased on that - the only games I've ever had with Xata (Carol and Assassination, both large normal) he's been scum and I've been town. I've never played with town Xatalos.
So far Xata is looking town...
Continuing...
Looking town
On November 03 2015 00:46 Half the Sky wrote: I'm looking at a three-hour delay for my flight home. Fuck this weather.
That is going to put me close to deadline, so I am going to keep my primary submission to what it is now, and then have an alternate submission up ASAP so you people can discuss it before and then I will state what I'm going to do before I get on the plane. If I had to pull myself off the team, it'd be right now - Xata/rayn/Superbia.
I'm feeling better about Xata but not as good as with Super/rayn and I don't believe sicklucker and Artanis will bleed town for me in time for deadline or even before I leave Berlin, if I even do.
Also I don't feel Rels' TMI argument on superbia is valid, but will double check the rest of his followup.
Not the towniest but town
On November 03 2015 06:51 Half the Sky wrote: Why the fuck is TL such a piece of shit on mobile?
##nominate: kitaman27, raynpelikoneet, Half the Sky
Town but not town enough to be on her team
On November 04 2015 21:29 Half the Sky wrote: Work is burying me today (if I'm lucky I'll finish around 2100 today) so quick comments for now.
1 Above team is fine by me. Would vote yes. No issues with any of Xata's explanations on his team selection.
2 I will vote down any team with Rels on it (and almost certainly will be ignoring him as mafia onwards until something to the contrary jumps at me) assuming we are sticking to the conventional approach of nailing the first mission with three town.
3 I passed/scrapped my team to buy more time.
4 Artanis I think you need to re-read my filter. Unless I'm misunderstanding, you had a fear read on me before, not the other way around. my stance on your alignment is null because your RL situation is NAI and I needed more content to re-evaluate you. Seeing as you've posted more content, I'll re-evaluate after work.
5 Regarding the comments on defensiveness my argument is that for someone normally considered a very good town player Rels is scum reading me for things that do not make me Mafia. The basis for his position is actually pretty poor IMO with the caveat he has never played the game so this could explain (if somehow he's actually town) why he's seeing some things the way he is.
No issue with Xata's explanations on the choice of the team
On November 05 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote: Aiming for until 12:30am or so... (another 45m) so if anyone wants to talk, please do.
You don't need give details or anything, but where would you everyone one through nine in terms of trustworthiness?
With nine being most trustworthy
kitaman27 6 ShoCkeyy 2 at most Rels - um, zero? Artanis[Xp] 7-8 Xatalos 7 Superbia 6 raynpelikoneet - 8-9 sicklucker 5 at most (although I'm atm trying to evaluate him on what he does have...)
I am aware that Rels, you, Superbia have pretty damned capable scum games so there is some caution with some of the ratings.
Xatalos being third towniest at 7/10
On November 06 2015 07:45 Half the Sky wrote: Shockey is townreading Superbia, Rels, Artanis and Kita, scumreads on rayn and Xatalos.
Null on everyone else. Probably means I don't have to worry about a spy Xatalos fooling us all, with the third scum being Superbia/Kita, Artanis/sicklucker per this association is a longshot.
This also means though I'm wrong on a townread though, and I'm now not sure whom without filter diving.
It's one of Superbia or Kita, Rels is either defending scum Kita or disassociating from Superbia.
If I had to tinfoil Kita, the former makes sense considering the early case on Xatalos. But now we have some queries on Rels. Hmmmm.
The problem is, if sicklucker is mafia, and Rels is using reverse psychology on us, then this whole thing is blown out of the water. But Ockham's razor indicates SL is town, so I think that's what I'm going to hold for now, unless something else indicates otherwise.
Random thoughts. Still on mobile, can't filter dive too easily.
Pretty sure Xata is not scum fooling us
On November 06 2015 08:24 Half the Sky wrote: Independent of the vote, there's plenty to suggest Xatalos/rayn are town, so the main doubt was sicklucker. If the mission is sabotaged, it makes it pretty obvious where it'd be but then that also circles to the point raised as to why the next team is selected right away.
Xata is confirmed town so SL will be obvious scum if the mission fail
Somehow Xata went from "I think he's town" to "he's so conf town SL will be scum if the missions fails". Especially, she said an easy way to confirm Xata would be to make a meta analysis on how shallow his reads are; she didn't do it, but Xata is somehow confirmed town in her mind.
On November 06 2015 08:00 Tictock wrote: Day 1 Xatalos Nomination (Xatalos, rayn, sicklucker) Vote Result
Half the Sky - YES Xatalos - YES Artanis[Xp] - YES raynpelikoneet - YES ShoCkeyy - NO Rels - NO sicklucker - YES kitaman27 - NO Superbia - NO
MISSION IS APPROVED
Xatalos, raynpelikoneet, and sicklucker will be embarking on Mission 1 Mission will be completed in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 6 November 2015.
Suuuuper interesting! With such a close vote, we'll have a lot of infos depending on how the team does. Let's see.
If the team pass there are two solutions: - it's a clean team; then there have to be 2 mafias in Shockey / kita / Superbia. Maybe 3, but it's possible one mafia went for the towncred instead if he thought the team would pass even if he voted no; since in this case, he's not on the team, it would be HTS or Arta. Given how HTS posted about her opinions on the vote, I don't see her voting "yes" in that situation when she had the perfect opportunity to vote "no" to a clean team. So if one mafia voted "yes" to a clean team, it would be Arta. - there is 1 (or more) scum in the team but he didn't make the mission failed: unlikely. The goal of the game is to win three missions for both team; exchanging town cred for 1 failure out of 3 doesn't seem to be worth it. It that happens, I think it makes Artanis town, since the plan would be to make Arta pick the same team + himself, fail the mission, and put the blame on him. So if the team passes the mission, then fails the next with SL / rayn / Xata / Arta, it probably means Arta's alignment will be determinent to solving the game; it's either Arta being mafia going for the towncred; or Arta being town on which mafia are trying to put the blame. Figuring this out in this case will be crucial. If the team passes the mission, then passes the next with SL / rayn / Xata / Arta, there are all town and the game is won. That would be cool. (=
If the team fails: There is one confirmed mafia in Xata / rayn / SL, maybe 2. There has to be at least 2 mafias in Xata / rayn / SL / HTS / Arta, probably 3 since, as said above, the towncred lost by voting a failure team is more than compensated by the 1 win out of 3 needed. That doesn't apply if one scum thought the team would pass even if he voted "no" though.
That's where I'm at. Not going further until tomorrow.
So, uh, what conclusions have you actually drawn from this? You won't find out if it's a clean team or not even if it passes. It seems your entire post is speculation without any substance, other than it being "unlikely" that they'd pass a mission with a mafia in it only to follow it up with the fact that it is possible, therefore not really being a conclusion at all.
Why do you expect a conclusion when we don't know what will happen ? I will do a proper vote analysis when we know the result. What I'm thinking above is independant from my reads, so it will be interesting to match vote analysis with reads.
On November 06 2015 08:00 Tictock wrote: Day 1 Xatalos Nomination (Xatalos, rayn, sicklucker) Vote Result
Half the Sky - YES Xatalos - YES Artanis[Xp] - YES raynpelikoneet - YES ShoCkeyy - NO Rels - NO sicklucker - YES kitaman27 - NO Superbia - NO
MISSION IS APPROVED
Xatalos, raynpelikoneet, and sicklucker will be embarking on Mission 1 Mission will be completed in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 6 November 2015.
Suuuuper interesting! With such a close vote, we'll have a lot of infos depending on how the team does. Let's see.
If the team pass there are two solutions: - it's a clean team; then there have to be 2 mafias in Shockey / kita / Superbia. Maybe 3, but it's possible one mafia went for the towncred instead if he thought the team would pass even if he voted no; since in this case, he's not on the team, it would be HTS or Arta. Given how HTS posted about her opinions on the vote, I don't see her voting "yes" in that situation when she had the perfect opportunity to vote "no" to a clean team. So if one mafia voted "yes" to a clean team, it would be Arta. - there is 1 (or more) scum in the team but he didn't make the mission failed: unlikely. The goal of the game is to win three missions for both team; exchanging town cred for 1 failure out of 3 doesn't seem to be worth it. It that happens, I think it makes Artanis town, since the plan would be to make Arta pick the same team + himself, fail the mission, and put the blame on him. So if the team passes the mission, then fails the next with SL / rayn / Xata / Arta, it probably means Arta's alignment will be determinent to solving the game; it's either Arta being mafia going for the towncred; or Arta being town on which mafia are trying to put the blame. Figuring this out in this case will be crucial. If the team passes the mission, then passes the next with SL / rayn / Xata / Arta, there are all town and the game is won. That would be cool. (=
If the team fails: There is one confirmed mafia in Xata / rayn / SL, maybe 2. There has to be at least 2 mafias in Xata / rayn / SL / HTS / Arta, probably 3 since, as said above, the towncred lost by voting a failure team is more than compensated by the 1 win out of 3 needed. That doesn't apply if one scum thought the team would pass even if he voted "no" though.
That's where I'm at. Not going further until tomorrow.
So, uh, what conclusions have you actually drawn from this? You won't find out if it's a clean team or not even if it passes. It seems your entire post is speculation without any substance, other than it being "unlikely" that they'd pass a mission with a mafia in it only to follow it up with the fact that it is possible, therefore not really being a conclusion at all.
Why do you expect a conclusion when we don't know what will happen ? I will do a proper vote analysis when we know the result. What I'm thinking above is independant from my reads, so it will be interesting to match vote analysis with reads.
Because I just don't understand the point of the post you made.
Thinking about the different possible scenarios that could happen from that vote pattern, regardless of what I think of the players myself, so it's easier to understand what's going on when we get the result.
On November 06 2015 08:00 Tictock wrote: Day 1 Xatalos Nomination (Xatalos, rayn, sicklucker) Vote Result
Half the Sky - YES Xatalos - YES Artanis[Xp] - YES raynpelikoneet - YES ShoCkeyy - NO Rels - NO sicklucker - YES kitaman27 - NO Superbia - NO
MISSION IS APPROVED
Xatalos, raynpelikoneet, and sicklucker will be embarking on Mission 1 Mission will be completed in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 6 November 2015.
Suuuuper interesting! With such a close vote, we'll have a lot of infos depending on how the team does. Let's see.
If the team pass there are two solutions: - it's a clean team; then there have to be 2 mafias in Shockey / kita / Superbia. Maybe 3, but it's possible one mafia went for the towncred instead if he thought the team would pass even if he voted no; since in this case, he's not on the team, it would be HTS or Arta. Given how HTS posted about her opinions on the vote, I don't see her voting "yes" in that situation when she had the perfect opportunity to vote "no" to a clean team. So if one mafia voted "yes" to a clean team, it would be Arta. - there is 1 (or more) scum in the team but he didn't make the mission failed: unlikely. The goal of the game is to win three missions for both team; exchanging town cred for 1 failure out of 3 doesn't seem to be worth it. It that happens, I think it makes Artanis town, since the plan would be to make Arta pick the same team + himself, fail the mission, and put the blame on him. So if the team passes the mission, then fails the next with SL / rayn / Xata / Arta, it probably means Arta's alignment will be determinent to solving the game; it's either Arta being mafia going for the towncred; or Arta being town on which mafia are trying to put the blame. Figuring this out in this case will be crucial. If the team passes the mission, then passes the next with SL / rayn / Xata / Arta, there are all town and the game is won. That would be cool. (=
If the team fails: There is one confirmed mafia in Xata / rayn / SL, maybe 2. There has to be at least 2 mafias in Xata / rayn / SL / HTS / Arta, probably 3 since, as said above, the towncred lost by voting a failure team is more than compensated by the 1 win out of 3 needed. That doesn't apply if one scum thought the team would pass even if he voted "no" though.
That's where I'm at. Not going further until tomorrow.
So, uh, what conclusions have you actually drawn from this? You won't find out if it's a clean team or not even if it passes. It seems your entire post is speculation without any substance, other than it being "unlikely" that they'd pass a mission with a mafia in it only to follow it up with the fact that it is possible, therefore not really being a conclusion at all.
Why do you expect a conclusion when we don't know what will happen ? I will do a proper vote analysis when we know the result. What I'm thinking above is independant from my reads, so it will be interesting to match vote analysis with reads.
Because I just don't understand the point of the post you made.
Thinking about the different possible scenarios that could happen from that vote pattern, regardless of what I think of the players myself, so it's easier to understand what's going on when we get the result.
I just don't really get why you're going into scenario's where you'll never be able to discern which is which though. Like I said;
being "unlikely" that they'd pass a mission with a mafia in it only to follow it up with the fact that it is possible
You list the possible scenarios, but I'm pretty sure everyone's already figured that if the 3-person mission passes and the 4-person mission fails, it is in fact possible for one of the people in the 3-person mission to still be a spy.
Cause I want it to be clear in my head. And that worked; I discovered that if success-then-fail happened, determining your alignment via behaviour will solve a big part of the game.
On November 06 2015 18:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm kind of around but at work. Not much to say until we find out if the mission passes or not honestly. If it does, I'm obviously nominating myself with the other three. Don't want to say too much about it before the pass/fail happens to not give any clues to any spy whether they should sabotage or not.
@Rels/HtS your explanations were satisfactory, though I'd still like to hear from HtS what exactly changed her mind on me when she's on a pc.
On November 06 2015 08:00 Tictock wrote: Day 1 Xatalos Nomination (Xatalos, rayn, sicklucker) Vote Result
Half the Sky - YES Xatalos - YES Artanis[Xp] - YES raynpelikoneet - YES ShoCkeyy - NO Rels - NO sicklucker - YES kitaman27 - NO Superbia - NO
MISSION IS APPROVED
Xatalos, raynpelikoneet, and sicklucker will be embarking on Mission 1 Mission will be completed in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 6 November 2015.
Suuuuper interesting! With such a close vote, we'll have a lot of infos depending on how the team does. Let's see.
If the team pass there are two solutions: - it's a clean team; then there have to be 2 mafias in Shockey / kita / Superbia. Maybe 3, but it's possible one mafia went for the towncred instead if he thought the team would pass even if he voted no; since in this case, he's not on the team, it would be HTS or Arta. Given how HTS posted about her opinions on the vote, I don't see her voting "yes" in that situation when she had the perfect opportunity to vote "no" to a clean team. So if one mafia voted "yes" to a clean team, it would be Arta. - there is 1 (or more) scum in the team but he didn't make the mission failed: unlikely. The goal of the game is to win three missions for both team; exchanging town cred for 1 failure out of 3 doesn't seem to be worth it. It that happens, I think it makes Artanis town, since the plan would be to make Arta pick the same team + himself, fail the mission, and put the blame on him. So if the team passes the mission, then fails the next with SL / rayn / Xata / Arta, it probably means Arta's alignment will be determinent to solving the game; it's either Arta being mafia going for the towncred; or Arta being town on which mafia are trying to put the blame. Figuring this out in this case will be crucial. If the team passes the mission, then passes the next with SL / rayn / Xata / Arta, there are all town and the game is won. That would be cool. (=
If the team fails: There is one confirmed mafia in Xata / rayn / SL, maybe 2. There has to be at least 2 mafias in Xata / rayn / SL / HTS / Arta, probably 3 since, as said above, the towncred lost by voting a failure team is more than compensated by the 1 win out of 3 needed. That doesn't apply if one scum thought the team would pass even if he voted "no" though.
That's where I'm at. Not going further until tomorrow.
So, uh, what conclusions have you actually drawn from this? You won't find out if it's a clean team or not even if it passes. It seems your entire post is speculation without any substance, other than it being "unlikely" that they'd pass a mission with a mafia in it only to follow it up with the fact that it is possible, therefore not really being a conclusion at all.
Why do you expect a conclusion when we don't know what will happen ? I will do a proper vote analysis when we know the result. What I'm thinking above is independant from my reads, so it will be interesting to match vote analysis with reads.
Because I just don't understand the point of the post you made.
Thinking about the different possible scenarios that could happen from that vote pattern, regardless of what I think of the players myself, so it's easier to understand what's going on when we get the result.
I just don't really get why you're going into scenario's where you'll never be able to discern which is which though. Like I said;
being "unlikely" that they'd pass a mission with a mafia in it only to follow it up with the fact that it is possible
You list the possible scenarios, but I'm pretty sure everyone's already figured that if the 3-person mission passes and the 4-person mission fails, it is in fact possible for one of the people in the 3-person mission to still be a spy.
Cause I want it to be clear in my head. And that worked; I discovered that if success-then-fail happened, determining your alignment via behaviour will solve a big part of the game.
Well yes, determining the alignment of the 4th player when there's a 3-success then 4-fail is probably important. It just seems like you went for a pretty.. roundabout way of approaching it?
Eh, whatever, it's not that important I guess. I kinda wanna hear more from you about Rayn and SL, but I think it's best to wait for the results first.
LOL OK said like that it's sound super dumb. (= It has something else to do with voting though: if the team is clean, the scum team is probably shockey / Superbia / kita. If one of them is wrong, you have to be the last scum, since the team is clean and HTS could have voted "no" super easily with what she was saying just before deadline.
On November 06 2015 18:13 Rels wrote: [quote] Suuuuper interesting! With such a close vote, we'll have a lot of infos depending on how the team does. Let's see.
If the team pass there are two solutions: - it's a clean team; then there have to be 2 mafias in Shockey / kita / Superbia. Maybe 3, but it's possible one mafia went for the towncred instead if he thought the team would pass even if he voted no; since in this case, he's not on the team, it would be HTS or Arta. Given how HTS posted about her opinions on the vote, I don't see her voting "yes" in that situation when she had the perfect opportunity to vote "no" to a clean team. So if one mafia voted "yes" to a clean team, it would be Arta. - there is 1 (or more) scum in the team but he didn't make the mission failed: unlikely. The goal of the game is to win three missions for both team; exchanging town cred for 1 failure out of 3 doesn't seem to be worth it. It that happens, I think it makes Artanis town, since the plan would be to make Arta pick the same team + himself, fail the mission, and put the blame on him. So if the team passes the mission, then fails the next with SL / rayn / Xata / Arta, it probably means Arta's alignment will be determinent to solving the game; it's either Arta being mafia going for the towncred; or Arta being town on which mafia are trying to put the blame. Figuring this out in this case will be crucial. If the team passes the mission, then passes the next with SL / rayn / Xata / Arta, there are all town and the game is won. That would be cool. (=
If the team fails: There is one confirmed mafia in Xata / rayn / SL, maybe 2. There has to be at least 2 mafias in Xata / rayn / SL / HTS / Arta, probably 3 since, as said above, the towncred lost by voting a failure team is more than compensated by the 1 win out of 3 needed. That doesn't apply if one scum thought the team would pass even if he voted "no" though.
That's where I'm at. Not going further until tomorrow.
So, uh, what conclusions have you actually drawn from this? You won't find out if it's a clean team or not even if it passes. It seems your entire post is speculation without any substance, other than it being "unlikely" that they'd pass a mission with a mafia in it only to follow it up with the fact that it is possible, therefore not really being a conclusion at all.
Why do you expect a conclusion when we don't know what will happen ? I will do a proper vote analysis when we know the result. What I'm thinking above is independant from my reads, so it will be interesting to match vote analysis with reads.
Because I just don't understand the point of the post you made.
Thinking about the different possible scenarios that could happen from that vote pattern, regardless of what I think of the players myself, so it's easier to understand what's going on when we get the result.
I just don't really get why you're going into scenario's where you'll never be able to discern which is which though. Like I said;
being "unlikely" that they'd pass a mission with a mafia in it only to follow it up with the fact that it is possible
You list the possible scenarios, but I'm pretty sure everyone's already figured that if the 3-person mission passes and the 4-person mission fails, it is in fact possible for one of the people in the 3-person mission to still be a spy.
Cause I want it to be clear in my head. And that worked; I discovered that if success-then-fail happened, determining your alignment via behaviour will solve a big part of the game.
Well yes, determining the alignment of the 4th player when there's a 3-success then 4-fail is probably important. It just seems like you went for a pretty.. roundabout way of approaching it?
Eh, whatever, it's not that important I guess. I kinda wanna hear more from you about Rayn and SL, but I think it's best to wait for the results first.
LOL OK said like that it's sound super dumb. (= It has something else to do with voting though: if the team is clean, the scum team is probably shockey / Superbia / kita. If one of them is wrong, you have to be the last scum, since the team is clean and HTS could have voted "no" super easily with what she was saying just before deadline.
How are you ever going to determine if the team is clean though? This is what I didn't get from your analysis.
Well, by playing the game. There is no way to know for sure: we'll have to use behaviour analysis, vote analysis, etc. I like having all the different scenarios in my head, so I can see which one is more likely; like if I cross this analysis with my reads, I'm pretty sure the team is not clean, 'cause that would either mean that kita / shockey / Superbia are the scums or that you are scum and voted for a clean team.
On November 06 2015 14:55 sicklucker wrote: This "qeustion" so dumb I dont know what angle your trying to pull here but it does not make me scum.
Artanis/me/rayn is the team I wanted and xata is the team I got. I explained why I somewhat townread xata and was happy with voting.
The question is clear and has nothing to do with what you just said:
On November 05 2015 23:17 kitaman27 wrote:
On November 05 2015 18:36 sicklucker wrote: when i said the team is all town i ment me/rayn/artanis there..
On November 05 2015 08:03 Superbia wrote: This one is probably going to get rejected straight out bc there's a good chance SL will just continue to lurk. =/ Artanis would've gotten some votes.
On November 05 2015 08:09 sicklucker wrote: super likely mafia. Im positive he has no reason to scum read me he just needs an excuse not to vote the all town team
So these were the posts that came within 6 minutes of each other. Super said the team would get rejected with SL, but Artanis would have gotten votes instead.
Now how could you think the team was SL/rayn/artanis if super is stating that artanis should have been included in the same exact post that you respond that he is scum?
then i just dont understand english
Then reread it (= Lunch time, will try to reformulate if you still don't understand when I get back
On November 06 2015 19:01 Rels wrote: [quote] Why do you expect a conclusion when we don't know what will happen ? I will do a proper vote analysis when we know the result. What I'm thinking above is independant from my reads, so it will be interesting to match vote analysis with reads.
Because I just don't understand the point of the post you made.
Thinking about the different possible scenarios that could happen from that vote pattern, regardless of what I think of the players myself, so it's easier to understand what's going on when we get the result.
I just don't really get why you're going into scenario's where you'll never be able to discern which is which though. Like I said;
being "unlikely" that they'd pass a mission with a mafia in it only to follow it up with the fact that it is possible
You list the possible scenarios, but I'm pretty sure everyone's already figured that if the 3-person mission passes and the 4-person mission fails, it is in fact possible for one of the people in the 3-person mission to still be a spy.
Cause I want it to be clear in my head. And that worked; I discovered that if success-then-fail happened, determining your alignment via behaviour will solve a big part of the game.
Well yes, determining the alignment of the 4th player when there's a 3-success then 4-fail is probably important. It just seems like you went for a pretty.. roundabout way of approaching it?
Eh, whatever, it's not that important I guess. I kinda wanna hear more from you about Rayn and SL, but I think it's best to wait for the results first.
LOL OK said like that it's sound super dumb. (= It has something else to do with voting though: if the team is clean, the scum team is probably shockey / Superbia / kita. If one of them is wrong, you have to be the last scum, since the team is clean and HTS could have voted "no" super easily with what she was saying just before deadline.
How are you ever going to determine if the team is clean though? This is what I didn't get from your analysis.
Well, by playing the game. There is no way to know for sure: we'll have to use behaviour analysis, vote analysis, etc. I like having all the different scenarios in my head, so I can see which one is more likely; like if I cross this analysis with my reads, I'm pretty sure the team is not clean, 'cause that would either mean that kita / shockey / Superbia are the scums or that you are scum and voted for a clean team.
So, your analysis decided that if a 3-player team passes and a 4-player team fails, we need behaviour and vote analysis to determine whether the 4th player is scum or town, and thus decide whether the 3-player team is clean or not.
On November 06 2015 14:55 sicklucker wrote: This "qeustion" so dumb I dont know what angle your trying to pull here but it does not make me scum.
Artanis/me/rayn is the team I wanted and xata is the team I got. I explained why I somewhat townread xata and was happy with voting.
The question is clear and has nothing to do with what you just said:
On November 05 2015 23:17 kitaman27 wrote:
On November 05 2015 18:36 sicklucker wrote: when i said the team is all town i ment me/rayn/artanis there..
On November 05 2015 08:03 Superbia wrote: This one is probably going to get rejected straight out bc there's a good chance SL will just continue to lurk. =/ Artanis would've gotten some votes.
On November 05 2015 08:09 sicklucker wrote: super likely mafia. Im positive he has no reason to scum read me he just needs an excuse not to vote the all town team
So these were the posts that came within 6 minutes of each other. Super said the team would get rejected with SL, but Artanis would have gotten votes instead.
Now how could you think the team was SL/rayn/artanis if super is stating that artanis should have been included in the same exact post that you respond that he is scum?
then i just dont understand english
Then reread it (= Lunch time, will try to reformulate if you still don't understand when I get back
Alright it's super easy. Let's start from the beginning, even if you ve already answered.
On November 05 2015 08:09 sicklucker wrote: super likely mafia. Im positive he has no reason to scum read me he just needs an excuse not to vote the all town team
What is the "all town team" you had in mind when writing this post ?
On November 06 2015 19:08 Rels wrote: [quote] Thinking about the different possible scenarios that could happen from that vote pattern, regardless of what I think of the players myself, so it's easier to understand what's going on when we get the result.
I just don't really get why you're going into scenario's where you'll never be able to discern which is which though. Like I said;
being "unlikely" that they'd pass a mission with a mafia in it only to follow it up with the fact that it is possible
You list the possible scenarios, but I'm pretty sure everyone's already figured that if the 3-person mission passes and the 4-person mission fails, it is in fact possible for one of the people in the 3-person mission to still be a spy.
Cause I want it to be clear in my head. And that worked; I discovered that if success-then-fail happened, determining your alignment via behaviour will solve a big part of the game.
Well yes, determining the alignment of the 4th player when there's a 3-success then 4-fail is probably important. It just seems like you went for a pretty.. roundabout way of approaching it?
Eh, whatever, it's not that important I guess. I kinda wanna hear more from you about Rayn and SL, but I think it's best to wait for the results first.
LOL OK said like that it's sound super dumb. (= It has something else to do with voting though: if the team is clean, the scum team is probably shockey / Superbia / kita. If one of them is wrong, you have to be the last scum, since the team is clean and HTS could have voted "no" super easily with what she was saying just before deadline.
How are you ever going to determine if the team is clean though? This is what I didn't get from your analysis.
Well, by playing the game. There is no way to know for sure: we'll have to use behaviour analysis, vote analysis, etc. I like having all the different scenarios in my head, so I can see which one is more likely; like if I cross this analysis with my reads, I'm pretty sure the team is not clean, 'cause that would either mean that kita / shockey / Superbia are the scums or that you are scum and voted for a clean team.
So, your analysis decided that if a 3-player team passes and a 4-player team fails, we need behaviour and vote analysis to determine whether the 4th player is scum or town, and thus decide whether the 3-player team is clean or not.
I think you may be on to something here.
You're a little shit =D
Thanks for playing!
Pretty cool (= I'm picturing you with your folder of "funny and town-looking images", waiting for the perfect opportunity to post one
On November 06 2015 19:15 Rels wrote: [quote] Cause I want it to be clear in my head. And that worked; I discovered that if success-then-fail happened, determining your alignment via behaviour will solve a big part of the game.
Well yes, determining the alignment of the 4th player when there's a 3-success then 4-fail is probably important. It just seems like you went for a pretty.. roundabout way of approaching it?
Eh, whatever, it's not that important I guess. I kinda wanna hear more from you about Rayn and SL, but I think it's best to wait for the results first.
LOL OK said like that it's sound super dumb. (= It has something else to do with voting though: if the team is clean, the scum team is probably shockey / Superbia / kita. If one of them is wrong, you have to be the last scum, since the team is clean and HTS could have voted "no" super easily with what she was saying just before deadline.
How are you ever going to determine if the team is clean though? This is what I didn't get from your analysis.
Well, by playing the game. There is no way to know for sure: we'll have to use behaviour analysis, vote analysis, etc. I like having all the different scenarios in my head, so I can see which one is more likely; like if I cross this analysis with my reads, I'm pretty sure the team is not clean, 'cause that would either mean that kita / shockey / Superbia are the scums or that you are scum and voted for a clean team.
So, your analysis decided that if a 3-player team passes and a 4-player team fails, we need behaviour and vote analysis to determine whether the 4th player is scum or town, and thus decide whether the 3-player team is clean or not.
I think you may be on to something here.
You're a little shit =D
Thanks for playing!
Pretty cool (= I'm picturing you with your folder of "funny and town-looking images", waiting for the perfect opportunity to post one
On November 06 2015 19:25 Rels wrote: [quote] LOL OK said like that it's sound super dumb. (= It has something else to do with voting though: if the team is clean, the scum team is probably shockey / Superbia / kita. If one of them is wrong, you have to be the last scum, since the team is clean and HTS could have voted "no" super easily with what she was saying just before deadline.
How are you ever going to determine if the team is clean though? This is what I didn't get from your analysis.
Well, by playing the game. There is no way to know for sure: we'll have to use behaviour analysis, vote analysis, etc. I like having all the different scenarios in my head, so I can see which one is more likely; like if I cross this analysis with my reads, I'm pretty sure the team is not clean, 'cause that would either mean that kita / shockey / Superbia are the scums or that you are scum and voted for a clean team.
So, your analysis decided that if a 3-player team passes and a 4-player team fails, we need behaviour and vote analysis to determine whether the 4th player is scum or town, and thus decide whether the 3-player team is clean or not.
I think you may be on to something here.
You're a little shit =D
Thanks for playing!
Pretty cool (= I'm picturing you with your folder of "funny and town-looking images", waiting for the perfect opportunity to post one
Is that an indirect way of calling me mafia?
No. Did you feel attacked by that post ?
The way you phrased it made me think you were scumreading me, yes. Generally people don't feel the need to specify "town-looking images" when they're talking about people they are in fact townreading.
On November 06 2015 19:42 Rels wrote: [quote] Well, by playing the game. There is no way to know for sure: we'll have to use behaviour analysis, vote analysis, etc. I like having all the different scenarios in my head, so I can see which one is more likely; like if I cross this analysis with my reads, I'm pretty sure the team is not clean, 'cause that would either mean that kita / shockey / Superbia are the scums or that you are scum and voted for a clean team.
So, your analysis decided that if a 3-player team passes and a 4-player team fails, we need behaviour and vote analysis to determine whether the 4th player is scum or town, and thus decide whether the 3-player team is clean or not.
I think you may be on to something here.
You're a little shit =D
Thanks for playing!
Pretty cool (= I'm picturing you with your folder of "funny and town-looking images", waiting for the perfect opportunity to post one
Is that an indirect way of calling me mafia?
No. Did you feel attacked by that post ?
The way you phrased it made me think you were scumreading me, yes. Generally people don't feel the need to specify "town-looking images" when they're talking about people they are in fact townreading.
It's pretty obvious it was a joke though.
Given the fact that you've been dancing around my alignment for a while now I didn't find it a very obvious joke, but very well.
Talk to me about Shockeyy. You seem to be one of the only people townreading him.
First, his play makes no sense for scum. His scumreads are the two most townread people this game, and he's keeping them since the beginning of the game; and I think he might be right on rayn. This has transformed him into someone whom nobody listens to and nobody picks in their team. If that guy is mafia, he's playing to lose the game.
Second, he has this idea of solving the game that guides his posts and votes; trapping one scum with two townies so we can ignore that guy forever. That's obviously not a great idea, since scum doesn't really care about being ignored if he has made a mission failed; but the fact that he is believing it so hard makes him town in my eyes, even though the idea itself is bad.
First, his play makes no sense for scum. His scumreads are the two most townread people this game, and he's keeping them since the beginning of the game; and I think he might be right on rayn. This has transformed him into someone whom nobody listens to and nobody picks in their team. If that guy is mafia, he's playing to lose the game.
Second, he has this idea of solving the game that guides his posts and votes; trapping one scum with two townies so we can ignore that guy forever. That's obviously not a great idea, since scum doesn't really care about being ignored if he has made a mission failed; but the fact that he is believing it so hard makes him town in my eyes, even though the idea itself is bad.
Hm, I can see the former. However, other people have been posting doubts about Rayn (you, there's someone else that I put on my chart that I can't ermemer right now) and Xatalos (Kita) so he wasn't really alone in that. Nevertheless, I'll concede it's a point in his favour.
I don't think an idea that's actually good for scum in the end is something that can really be used to townread someone. The idea he was pushing doesn't really make sense for town, and it does make sense for mafia. He also doesn't really appear to be trying to do anything, possibly to prevent himself from associating with anyone. Couldn't he just figure he's basically been caught so he should mostly just try to fling shit at people we think are town and see if it sticks?
Maybe. I didn't feel that way, but maybe. His lack of activity is making me doubt a little. I want to see how he reacts to the post I've written to him recently.
On November 06 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote: Ah got it James. <3
I'd say at least 2. I think maayyyybe one was smart enough to suck it up and pass? Could be SL for all we know.
And that's a really good question to Shockey, Xata.
That doesn't make sense. If SL is mafia and "suck it up and pass" the team, then he didn't "suck it up", he voted "yes" to a team with a scum in it. You seem to assume: - SL is town, since you're wondering whether 2 or 3 mafias voted against it, so it has to be a clean team - SL is mafia, since he could have suck it up and pass Or is there another logical explanation for this post ? 'cause I'm not seeing it
What logical explanations could exist for that post ? I'm only seeing one myself.
On November 06 2015 21:53 Rels wrote: Since you're there:
On November 06 2015 18:22 Rels wrote:
On November 06 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote: Ah got it James. <3
I'd say at least 2. I think maayyyybe one was smart enough to suck it up and pass? Could be SL for all we know.
And that's a really good question to Shockey, Xata.
That doesn't make sense. If SL is mafia and "suck it up and pass" the team, then he didn't "suck it up", he voted "yes" to a team with a scum in it. You seem to assume: - SL is town, since you're wondering whether 2 or 3 mafias voted against it, so it has to be a clean team - SL is mafia, since he could have suck it up and pass Or is there another logical explanation for this post ? 'cause I'm not seeing it
What logical explanations could exist for that post ? I'm only seeing one myself.
I'm not doing any analysis on the people that are currently up for the mission. Don't want to guide the decision of any possible spy on there.
On November 06 2015 20:56 Rels wrote: [quote] You're a little shit =D
Thanks for playing!
Pretty cool (= I'm picturing you with your folder of "funny and town-looking images", waiting for the perfect opportunity to post one
Is that an indirect way of calling me mafia?
No. Did you feel attacked by that post ?
The way you phrased it made me think you were scumreading me, yes. Generally people don't feel the need to specify "town-looking images" when they're talking about people they are in fact townreading.
It's pretty obvious it was a joke though.
Given the fact that you've been dancing around my alignment for a while now I didn't find it a very obvious joke, but very well.
Talk to me about Shockeyy. You seem to be one of the only people townreading him.
First, his play makes no sense for scum. His scumreads are the two most townread people this game, and he's keeping them since the beginning of the game; and I think he might be right on rayn. This has transformed him into someone whom nobody listens to and nobody picks in their team. If that guy is mafia, he's playing to lose the game.
On November 07 2015 08:10 Half the Sky wrote: Alright, I know I said sicklucker was the most likely since he was the "least town" but I think especially because the first mission (!!!) failed, it really might be worth our while to tinfoil rayn and Xatalos to make sure we didn't miss anything.
On November 06 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote: Ah got it James. <3
I'd say at least 2. I think maayyyybe one was smart enough to suck it up and pass? Could be SL for all we know.
And that's a really good question to Shockey, Xata.
That doesn't make sense. If SL is mafia and "suck it up and pass" the team, then he didn't "suck it up", he voted "yes" to a team with a scum in it. You seem to assume: - SL is town, since you're wondering whether 2 or 3 mafias voted against it, so it has to be a clean team - SL is mafia, since he could have suck it up and pass Or is there another logical explanation for this post ? 'cause I'm not seeing it
On November 05 2015 01:45 kitaman27 wrote: Aside from the PoE analysis, what type of things make you suspicious of Shockey or HTS from their posting history? Does it really matter who HTS frames between you, Xat, and myself? I suppose a spy HTS would be hesitant to nominate a town superbia who hasn't posted for a while, but what's the different from a town xat and a town kita to her?
The difference is i am not calling Xatalos scum and i am calling you scum.
Not sure how that applies to the spy HTS scenario being referenced.
Because if the team goes through and gets sabotaged i am going to call her scum since i am sure Xatalos is town. If you are on the mission instead of Xatalos i am not going to call her scum, at least that's not as likely as with Xatalos.
The reasonning he put forward here is "HTS knew that if she picked Xatalos and I and the team failed, everybody would know HTS is scum since Xata and I are so town". Well, the same situation happened with SL instead of HTS. So if rayn is scum, that would the reason he pushed SL to be in the team.
On November 07 2015 09:31 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, I like how rayn approaches the all-scum nomination thing. He even warns me not to talk about it when I come to the thread I don't think there's any scum motivation in preventing discussion about that topic.
Apparently you missed this (lucky you I just read it):
On November 04 2015 01:00 kitaman27 wrote: Frankly rayn, for you to even suggest a plan like this that is so poorly thought out makes me more suspicious of you.
I don't like this post, and the fact that you are not looking behind the words at all. Let's break this into pieces: My reasoning for doing this is the following: 1) town - i believe that you three are scum (in which case it makes this the best play if all of you three agree - it just does, as the town auto-wins after regardless of what team we choose next ) 2) town - i believe there is a chance that you all three are scum, and i know you will never agree to this as either alignment 3) mafia - idk... you can insert your reasoning here because you seem to think there could be a reason, i can't give one, since i am not mafia and i would never do that when i am ALREADY on the team and (heavily) townread by 7 other players....
Now the point of all this was a couple of things: - Rels; i didn't learn anything, although he called my logic "twisted", and i still don't know why. maybe he explains it someday, as there is nothing twisted in my logic. (i am pretty sure Xatalos & Artanis see what i was after here) - ShoCkeyy; i don't really care since he is scum anyways, but he thinks i am scum (regardless of what he tries to say -- he does), so why does he accept a team proposed by scum? Like.. if i was scum i would put a teammate there, obviously, i am not stupid. - regarding you, i wanted to push your reads out, because i was annoyed of you not giving any concrete reads. I know you would never agree to this regardless of who is mafia and regardless of your alignment. The thing that confuses me is that you kinda called me scummy for it, when there is literally no scum motivation for me to do that (i actually did a similar "anti-town" thing in Nuclear Winter mafia (which never had any anti-town motivation that anyone could explain) -- and caught Ace pants down on N1 ).
rayn never intended to fully push for this all scum team; it was a plan to get reactions, as proved by the sentence "Now the point of all this was a couple of things:". So you cannot award him town points for pushing something that was a simple reaction test.
On November 07 2015 08:00 Fidei86 wrote: !!! MISSION FAILED !!! 1 Sabotage action detected.
Day 2 Artanis[Xp]'s Nomination Phase Phase will end in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 7 November 2015.
Alright then we have at least one scum in Xata / rayn / SL. Then I think we have at the very least 2 scums in Xata / rayn / SL / HTS / Arta, maybe 3.
I think that's a reasonable assumption... But rayn is most likely town, so I guess that would mean HTS, Artanis and SL would be scum? Kind of hard to see at least Artanis being scum, HTS maybe. So I'd guess there are 1+ scum hiding in the NO votes as well.
Don't know, I'm kinda re evaluating everything here. The obvious answer to me is "rayn is scum, SL is town, rayn put SL to blame him when the team fails." Then at least HTS or Arta with him, maybe both. But SL is not obvious town either, so I'm not sure. And let's not forget YOU are the one that nominated the failing team. If you're scum, that would mean you broke your meta, but that's possible.
On November 07 2015 09:48 Xatalos wrote: Or maybe Artanis is just fooling us :/ He was the towniest town that ever towned in the I'm a Cop you idiot game and was scum all along. *shivers*
What does Artanis have to do with this mission when it was you, rayn and SL on this mission. That means one of you three have to be mafia.
It's a continuation of his previous post. Did you read my post on why I thought your way of solving the game was not good for this game ?
Another thing I didn't like, and he refused to comment on after being asked maybe 5 times: rayn put suspicions in both HTS and me in a short period of time.
On November 05 2015 03:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: She thinks both you and kita are town but she picks the person that is least likely to get yay-voted in the team. It makes very little sense.
What would be the mafia motivation to suggest a team with a less optimal chance of success here?
If HtS is mafia it comes down to this: 1) the team of HtS/Xatalos/rayn gets yay'd; me and Xatalos have "almost definitely confirmed scum", which suddenly makes everything HtS says after that a possibility of a big fuckup. She also needs to argue why Xatalos is scum. 2) the team of HtS/kita/rayn gets yay'd; She can actually more conveniently argue that kitaman is scum, because other people think kitaman is scum aswell. She don't even really need to argue, she can just +1 on the points. (the contrary to (1) is that i am not 100% arguing against her) 3) the team of HtS/kita/rayn get's nay'd (which is very very likely in the first place); she doesn't out herself, and passes the turn onto someone else -- she "looks better" to you, which increases her possibilities of getting picked later on as she is "right".
Personally i see the scum motivation in (2) and (3) over (1). If i was at HtS' position i would definitely pick either (2) or (3) over the possibility (1), since regardless of who is scum in this game at that time (and even now) the town is not working very well together.
On November 05 2015 03:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't have much to say to your big post kita. I just disagree. I suggest you go read Rels' scumgames to see what he is capable of: Season of the Witch II[/ur] Battle of Drams
Basically the cases he makes look "good" but they are boring. lol, i can't explain that better. Like here Superbia and to some extent HtS are like furious and spit flames everywhere (like BM in SotW game) when getting into argument with Rels. Rels is just.. boring, and the reasoning is boring. And he makes conclusions that don't make any sense, at all.
And here is what he thinks about busing in this setup:
On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you read his filter, rayn always considers teams when he puts out suspicions. But there, he considers us both possible scums, when in his giant post he said that about busing: The best way of playing Resistance, at least what i have figured out is to play the first cycle as you were playing mafia. What Rels said is completely untrue, just because if mafia does not look town they cannot bus, everything is situational. The way to play is to give out reads, town and scumreads. While townreads are "more important" here, the fact is that mafia doesn't want an all town team to go on a mission, that should be obvious. Now if scum are bussing, it hinders their changes of getting a mission where there is scum on it to go through, just because they have to downvote missions (unless they themselves are the scum there).
Now if mafia busses, and there happens to be a town leader, they might find themselves in a situation where they must accept an all town team, because otherwise they give themselves away. You can't just have three scumreads and when a mission goes up where all the people there are townread by you, you just can't say "i am nay-voting this team, because...".
So if doesn't think scum would bus this game; but he's considering HTS to be a possible scum, when he's convinced I'm scum. If both reads were light reads, that could explain it, as only one of them could be true in his mind; but rayn is convinced since pretty early in the game I am scum. This fact + his view on bussing should make him view HTS as town.
On November 07 2015 08:00 Fidei86 wrote: !!! MISSION FAILED !!! 1 Sabotage action detected.
Day 2 Artanis[Xp]'s Nomination Phase Phase will end in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 7 November 2015.
Alright then we have at least one scum in Xata / rayn / SL. Then I think we have at the very least 2 scums in Xata / rayn / SL / HTS / Arta, maybe 3.
I think that's a reasonable assumption... But rayn is most likely town, so I guess that would mean HTS, Artanis and SL would be scum? Kind of hard to see at least Artanis being scum, HTS maybe. So I'd guess there are 1+ scum hiding in the NO votes as well.
Don't know, I'm kinda re evaluating everything here. The obvious answer to me is "rayn is scum, SL is town, rayn put SL to blame him when the team fails." Then at least HTS or Arta with him, maybe both. But SL is not obvious town either, so I'm not sure. And let's not forget YOU are the one that nominated the failing team. If you're scum, that would mean you broke your meta, but that's possible.
Yeah, things really need some re-evaluation... The scummiest people pretty much voted NO and clearly all the scum can't be in the NO voters since everyone on the mission voted YES... Possibly SL could be the only scum in the YES voters, I guess. It still makes me rethink my life choices >.>
On November 07 2015 10:06 Rels wrote: Another thing I didn't like, and he refused to comment on after being asked maybe 5 times: rayn put suspicions in both HTS and me in a short period of time.
On November 05 2015 03:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 05 2015 03:27 kitaman27 wrote:
On November 05 2015 03:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: She thinks both you and kita are town but she picks the person that is least likely to get yay-voted in the team. It makes very little sense.
What would be the mafia motivation to suggest a team with a less optimal chance of success here?
If HtS is mafia it comes down to this: 1) the team of HtS/Xatalos/rayn gets yay'd; me and Xatalos have "almost definitely confirmed scum", which suddenly makes everything HtS says after that a possibility of a big fuckup. She also needs to argue why Xatalos is scum. 2) the team of HtS/kita/rayn gets yay'd; She can actually more conveniently argue that kitaman is scum, because other people think kitaman is scum aswell. She don't even really need to argue, she can just +1 on the points. (the contrary to (1) is that i am not 100% arguing against her) 3) the team of HtS/kita/rayn get's nay'd (which is very very likely in the first place); she doesn't out herself, and passes the turn onto someone else -- she "looks better" to you, which increases her possibilities of getting picked later on as she is "right".
Personally i see the scum motivation in (2) and (3) over (1). If i was at HtS' position i would definitely pick either (2) or (3) over the possibility (1), since regardless of who is scum in this game at that time (and even now) the town is not working very well together.
On November 05 2015 03:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't have much to say to your big post kita. I just disagree. I suggest you go read Rels' scumgames to see what he is capable of: Season of the Witch II[/ur] Battle of Drams
Basically the cases he makes look "good" but they are boring. lol, i can't explain that better. Like here Superbia and to some extent HtS are like furious and spit flames everywhere (like BM in SotW game) when getting into argument with Rels. Rels is just.. boring, and the reasoning is boring. And he makes conclusions that don't make any sense, at all.
And here is what he thinks about busing in this setup:
On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you read his filter, rayn always considers teams when he puts out suspicions. But there, he considers us both possible scums, when in his giant post he said that about busing: The best way of playing Resistance, at least what i have figured out is to play the first cycle as you were playing mafia. What Rels said is completely untrue, just because if mafia does not look town they cannot bus, everything is situational. The way to play is to give out reads, town and scumreads. While townreads are "more important" here, the fact is that mafia doesn't want an all town team to go on a mission, that should be obvious. Now if scum are bussing, it hinders their changes of getting a mission where there is scum on it to go through, just because they have to downvote missions (unless they themselves are the scum there).
Now if mafia busses, and there happens to be a town leader, they might find themselves in a situation where they must accept an all town team, because otherwise they give themselves away. You can't just have three scumreads and when a mission goes up where all the people there are townread by you, you just can't say "i am nay-voting this team, because...".
So if doesn't think scum would bus this game; but he's considering HTS to be a possible scum, when he's convinced I'm scum. If both reads were light reads, that could explain it, as only one of them could be true in his mind; but rayn is convinced since pretty early in the game I am scum. This fact + his view on bussing should make him view HTS as town.
That's just unflipped association though? I don't think it should completely remove a scumread on either of you, even if it could maybe cause him think that you're not both scum together.
So SL is considered town because "all the scummy people don't want to vote for him"; but this consideration don't extend to HTS being pushed pretty hard by rayn's second hardest scumread after Shockey ?
On November 07 2015 10:06 Rels wrote: Another thing I didn't like, and he refused to comment on after being asked maybe 5 times: rayn put suspicions in both HTS and me in a short period of time.
On November 05 2015 03:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 05 2015 03:27 kitaman27 wrote:
On November 05 2015 03:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: She thinks both you and kita are town but she picks the person that is least likely to get yay-voted in the team. It makes very little sense.
What would be the mafia motivation to suggest a team with a less optimal chance of success here?
If HtS is mafia it comes down to this: 1) the team of HtS/Xatalos/rayn gets yay'd; me and Xatalos have "almost definitely confirmed scum", which suddenly makes everything HtS says after that a possibility of a big fuckup. She also needs to argue why Xatalos is scum. 2) the team of HtS/kita/rayn gets yay'd; She can actually more conveniently argue that kitaman is scum, because other people think kitaman is scum aswell. She don't even really need to argue, she can just +1 on the points. (the contrary to (1) is that i am not 100% arguing against her) 3) the team of HtS/kita/rayn get's nay'd (which is very very likely in the first place); she doesn't out herself, and passes the turn onto someone else -- she "looks better" to you, which increases her possibilities of getting picked later on as she is "right".
Personally i see the scum motivation in (2) and (3) over (1). If i was at HtS' position i would definitely pick either (2) or (3) over the possibility (1), since regardless of who is scum in this game at that time (and even now) the town is not working very well together.
On November 05 2015 03:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't have much to say to your big post kita. I just disagree. I suggest you go read Rels' scumgames to see what he is capable of: Season of the Witch II[/ur] Battle of Drams
Basically the cases he makes look "good" but they are boring. lol, i can't explain that better. Like here Superbia and to some extent HtS are like furious and spit flames everywhere (like BM in SotW game) when getting into argument with Rels. Rels is just.. boring, and the reasoning is boring. And he makes conclusions that don't make any sense, at all.
And here is what he thinks about busing in this setup:
On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you read his filter, rayn always considers teams when he puts out suspicions. But there, he considers us both possible scums, when in his giant post he said that about busing: The best way of playing Resistance, at least what i have figured out is to play the first cycle as you were playing mafia. What Rels said is completely untrue, just because if mafia does not look town they cannot bus, everything is situational. The way to play is to give out reads, town and scumreads. While townreads are "more important" here, the fact is that mafia doesn't want an all town team to go on a mission, that should be obvious. Now if scum are bussing, it hinders their changes of getting a mission where there is scum on it to go through, just because they have to downvote missions (unless they themselves are the scum there).
Now if mafia busses, and there happens to be a town leader, they might find themselves in a situation where they must accept an all town team, because otherwise they give themselves away. You can't just have three scumreads and when a mission goes up where all the people there are townread by you, you just can't say "i am nay-voting this team, because...".
So if doesn't think scum would bus this game; but he's considering HTS to be a possible scum, when he's convinced I'm scum. If both reads were light reads, that could explain it, as only one of them could be true in his mind; but rayn is convinced since pretty early in the game I am scum. This fact + his view on bussing should make him view HTS as town.
That's just unflipped association though? I don't think it should completely remove a scumread on either of you, even if it could maybe cause him think that you're not both scum together.
So SL is considered town because "all the scummy people don't want to vote for him"; but this consideration don't extend to HTS being pushed pretty hard by rayn's second hardest scumread after Shockey ?
Hah Well, I'll let rayn himself answer that one. Didn't he comment on your association with HTS anywhere?
On November 06 2015 14:55 sicklucker wrote: This "qeustion" so dumb I dont know what angle your trying to pull here but it does not make me scum.
Artanis/me/rayn is the team I wanted and xata is the team I got. I explained why I somewhat townread xata and was happy with voting.
The question is clear and has nothing to do with what you just said:
On November 05 2015 23:17 kitaman27 wrote:
On November 05 2015 18:36 sicklucker wrote: when i said the team is all town i ment me/rayn/artanis there..
On November 05 2015 08:03 Superbia wrote: This one is probably going to get rejected straight out bc there's a good chance SL will just continue to lurk. =/ Artanis would've gotten some votes.
On November 05 2015 08:09 sicklucker wrote: super likely mafia. Im positive he has no reason to scum read me he just needs an excuse not to vote the all town team
So these were the posts that came within 6 minutes of each other. Super said the team would get rejected with SL, but Artanis would have gotten votes instead.
Now how could you think the team was SL/rayn/artanis if super is stating that artanis should have been included in the same exact post that you respond that he is scum?
then i just dont understand english
I'll try to make it as simple as possible:
1) Superbia says that the team will get rejected because artanis should have been chosen instead of SL 2) You call Superbia for wanting to reject the all town team 3) The all town team that you claim to have been referring to was SL/rayn/artanis, rather than SL/rayn/xat
How could 3 be true if he is clearly stating that he wanted artanis instead of SL?
ok i called it an all town team. I was suspicious of super
The reason you say you are suspicious of super isn't possible though. You called him scum because you say you thought he wanted to reject SL/rayn/artanis. You can't think he was referring to a SL/rayn/artanis team because he said he wanted Artanis instead of SL in the post you called him scum for. How can he want artanis in place of SL if they are both in the team you think he is referring to?
Does anyone else get what I'm saying or am I talking to a wall?
On November 07 2015 18:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: I suggest you pick yourself, Rels, kitaman and Superbia. It will get nay-voted anyways but meh.
I won't vote for any team that has one of the two YES voters not on the team (HTS and Arta). It's 99% sure there is one scum between them, and XX% there is two. I have no idea how to calculate XX but I can assure it's a big number. The best plan here, regardless of reads, is to send 3 of the NO voters + 1 of the failure team. The NO voters have at most one mafia between them, and possibly none; so it's the biggest chance of success. And if the mission fails, there is a big chance the 1 from the failure team is mafia.
On November 07 2015 08:00 Fidei86 wrote: !!! MISSION FAILED !!! 1 Sabotage action detected.
Day 2 Artanis[Xp]'s Nomination Phase Phase will end in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 7 November 2015.
Alright then we have at least one scum in Xata / rayn / SL. Then I think we have at the very least 2 scums in Xata / rayn / SL / HTS / Arta, maybe 3.
I think that's a reasonable assumption... But rayn is most likely town, so I guess that would mean HTS, Artanis and SL would be scum? Kind of hard to see at least Artanis being scum, HTS maybe. So I'd guess there are 1+ scum hiding in the NO votes as well.
Don't know, I'm kinda re evaluating everything here. The obvious answer to me is "rayn is scum, SL is town, rayn put SL to blame him when the team fails." Then at least HTS or Arta with him, maybe both. But SL is not obvious town either, so I'm not sure. And let's not forget YOU are the one that nominated the failing team. If you're scum, that would mean you broke your meta, but that's possible.
Okay, hold up, timeline: 1. Rels considered SL scummy. 2. Rels started considering Rayn scummy. 3. Rels still considered SL scummy. 4. Mission fails. 5. Rels considers SL obvious town because he's being set up by Rayn. What happened between 3 and 5 that made you think it's MORE likely for SL to be town after the mission fails?
The fact that rayn is more likely to be scum. And you didn't read properly: I said "SL is not obvious town either, so I'm not sure", so I don't know why you say "5. Rels considers SL obvious town because he's being set up by Rayn."
On November 07 2015 18:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: I suggest you pick yourself, Rels, kitaman and Superbia. It will get nay-voted anyways but meh.
I won't vote for any team that has one of the two YES voters not on the team (HTS and Arta). It's 99% sure there is one scum between them, and XX% there is two. I have no idea how to calculate XX but I can assure it's a big number. The best plan here, regardless of reads, is to send 3 of the NO voters + 1 of the failure team. The NO voters have at most one mafia between them, and possibly none; so it's the biggest chance of success. And if the mission fails, there is a big chance the 1 from the failure team is mafia.
would you vote yes on a team with me in it if it doesn't include Artanis/SL/Xatalos/HtS?
Maybe. I would prefer SL or Xatalos instead of you. But I prefer you to HTS / Arta.
On November 07 2015 18:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: I really think you should pick Rels. You will never get this team yay-voted.
Why do you suddenly think Rels is town?
Because it doesn't make sense that 2 sscum voted nay and Shockeyy is 100% scum.
I can see it making sense. When scum scumread players on the suggested team, they can't yayvote regardless of what they want. Shockey scumread you and xata and rels scumread you and SL. Even if they wanted to yayvote, they couldn't given their reads.
Though I guess I can see how Rels' scumread on both of you came after the team was already nominated, so it was a choice and he didn't really need to turn around and do that. I need to check if he scumread SL before the team was suggested now.
I mean like if you look at the things from my perspective: If i assume you are town (or from your perspective -- if you assume i am town), the Xatalos/rayn/SL team is probably the best mafia can get. I don't believe any of Rels/kitaman/Superbia is dumb enough to not realise that, given that the next two leaders are you and me.
If the mission gets nay-voted, you will probably pick yourself (town), me (town) and someone else (possibly town).
It just doesn't make any sense for any of them to downvote the mission (which is also accepted by townies). It doesn't even matter if the mafia is SL or Xatalos, if you wanna go down that road (that Xatalos is scum).
Shockeyy has already proven he has no idea what he is doing anyways. And i highly doubt Xatalos, as scum, would pick two scum onto the mission, and i know, if i was scum, i would downvote the mission with 2 scum in it, because it is highly likely that none of the three people will get picked onte the next missions and suddenly you have 6 players where only one is mafia, and people won't even listen to you as you were on a mission that failed. It is just bad play to nominate 2 scum onto a mission, i know i am not mafia, so there has to be exactly 1 mafia on the mission.
I agree that Kita and Superbia are likely town, ergo why I nominated them. I just don't think you can make it as clear cut as "they voted no so they're likely town". You establish reads during the game and if you yay-vote a team where you scumread 1-2 people on it, you're basically outing yourself. I don't think it clears him for that reason.
I also don't think you can downvote the mission if you townread everyone on it. That just doesn't make any sense.
I know Rels scumread Superbia and HtS before the mission went on. idk who was his third scumread at that time. Me? or SL?
I was suspicious of Xata around the time of team nomination, until I did that filter length analysis.
On November 08 2015 02:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: So you think i am the most likely person to be scum in the failed mission but you want to send ME instead of HtS/Artanis.....
Yes there is a big chance HTS and Arta are both scum.
On November 08 2015 02:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: So you think i am the most likely person to be scum in the failed mission but you want to send ME instead of HtS/Artanis.....
Yes there is a big chance HTS and Arta are both scum.
but you want to send your scumread from mission one.
Look, you asked me a question, I answered. I would prefer anyone to HTS / Arta who both voted for a team that: - didn't include them - failed If you had asked me "what team would I send", I wouldn't answer the same way.
On November 08 2015 02:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: So you think i am the most likely person to be scum in the failed mission but you want to send ME instead of HtS/Artanis.....
Yes there is a big chance HTS and Arta are both scum.
but you want to send your scumread from mission one.
Look, you asked me a question, I answered. I would prefer anyone to HTS / Arta who both voted for a team that: - didn't include them - failed If you had asked me "what team would I send", I wouldn't answer the same way.
well if you think i am the mafia from mission one you should never want to send me onto a mission over anyone who was not on the first mission.
You are the most likely mafia atm. I could be wrong. What I know if there is a big chance HTS / Arta are both scum, and 99% one of them is scum; the 1% being the situation where two scums were on the team D1. I cannot imagine two scums voting NO to a team containing a scum, especially since the vote was that close.
On November 05 2015 06:30 Rels wrote: @rayn from your huge wall:
On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: The fact is, if you read Rels' posts in this light, there is literally way way way more things that are just plain out fucking scummy.
Expand.
On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: Now the point of all this was a couple of things: - Rels; i didn't learn anything, although he called my logic "twisted", and i still don't know why. maybe he explains it someday, as there is nothing twisted in my logic. (i am pretty sure Xatalos & Artanis see what i was after here) - ShoCkeyy; i don't really care since he is scum anyways, but he thinks i am scum (regardless of what he tries to say -- he does), so why does he accept a team proposed by scum? Like.. if i was scum i would put a teammate there, obviously, i am not stupid. - regarding you, i wanted to push your reads out, because i was annoyed of you not giving any concrete reads. I know you would never agree to this regardless of who is mafia and regardless of your alignment. The thing that confuses me is that you kinda called me scummy for it, when there is literally no scum motivation for me to do that (i actually did a similar "anti-town" thing in Nuclear Winter mafia (which never had any anti-town motivation that anyone could explain) -- and caught Ace pants down on N1 ).
Your logic is twisted because the goal of the game is to pass mission, not fail them. I clearly said there is a town motivation behind your proposal though. So I don't understand why I'm on that list ? Expand.
- Your read on ShoCkeyy is basically "he does scummy things so he is town" - Your read on me at the start of the game - Your push on Superbia - You not considering kitaman scum, when there was really no reason to think he is town - There are more things after you posted here, but they are irrelevant to this.
Basically all this is in my filter. Yet you are incapable of finding these things out on your own.
I ask because just before you were pushing on the fact that my cases were "boring", which you don't list here. Every point on this list has been explained: - shockey's read is NOT "he does scummy things so he is town"; it's "if shockey is scum, he's playing to lose the game". - my push on you at the start of the game was logical; - Superbia's attack on Xata was not based on logic and was over the top for the beginning of the game. It makes no sense that you townread him at that point - I played with mafia!kita in Personality mafia; he layed low but provided good analysis on weak people, so we would mislynch them. Here he is laying low and providing good analysis, but on strong townies, which is super different
On November 07 2015 20:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: You were on the list because the proposal was literally towards you, kitaman and Shockeyy. I am not calling you scum for it. What the fuck are you even talking about? If i do a reaction test towards three people it's only natural i post what i learned ON THOSE THREE PEOPLE...... Like are you stupid or something?
On November 06 2015 01:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like Rels, the fucking conversation you referred to is really fucking straight forward. Somehow you manage to not understand it at all.
This is why i don't answer stupid questions. I don't want to waste time on fucking bullshit that doesn't have anything to do with anything. THE POST I WAS REFERRING TO IS IN THE NESTED QUOTES AND IT WAS VERY FUCKING CLEAR WHERE I WAS REFERRING TO BECAUSE IT IS IN THE SAME FUCKING CONVERSATION.
You make easy things hard. Stop.
No. You are either wrong or scum. You cannot think my scum game is PUSHING THREAD LEADERS. So if you're town, go reread my scum games and come back admitting you've made a mistake. If you're scum, feel free to do whatever.
Yes i can think think that. I also used to try to antagonize marv in every game i was scum in, just because i wanted to throw him off his game until he lynches me, until i stopped doing that. It's like... defending your actions that do not make any sense by saying "i wouldn't do that as scum" is really weak Rels. It is a fact you, at the start of the game, read me scum for something you weren't even sure is true (and it wasn't). That's not how townies usually operate. You don't "guess" if something (that can be proven) is true and call people scum for it. That is just stupid.
Furthermore you were trying to prove my meta wrong by using a game where you were a third faction. Because you were anti-town doesn't mean you were playing to your scum meta, especially when i fucking know you were LEGIT TRYING TO SCUMHUNT IN THAT GAME!!!!
I'm not you though. And I was sure copcake was mafia in that game. But OK, as long as you say "it's possible" and not "it makes you scum" it's understandable.
On November 06 2015 01:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: Fucking easiest thing to find in kitaman's filter.
On November 03 2015 00:15 kitaman27 wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:12 Xatalos wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: [quote] yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right?
Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game.
Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia.
Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.".
somehow you didn't manage to figure it out.
Yeah. It doesn't make sense. You know as scum I push for the easy targets. You've played or hosted all the games I've been scum / 3P. So it makes no sense you would say this in response:
On November 03 2015 18:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 18:21 Rels wrote:
On November 03 2015 18:16 Rels wrote:
On November 03 2015 18:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: [quote] Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went.
That was before the question ... so you really meant that. You know how I play as scum; I wouldn't try to win by making you ragequit / modkilled / whatever, 'cause that wouldn't be a win.
This bothers me very much rayn. How could you think that. You scumread me (partly) for "Rels scumreads me for a dumb meta reason". You know what; I think this is a very dumb meta reason (me trying to make you ragequit).
I have never called you mafia because of it. I am saying you could do that as scum, as kitaman was basically arguing the other way around.
I don't give any fucks. You do scummy shit in this game. You are scum.
One of the questions you didn't answer is "expand". So do it.
The third is "why am I on a list on people failing the 'rayn's plan is scummy!' test when I said it was town motivated ?" The fourth is "do you really picture me and HTS scum together ?"
3) I said i failed to learn anything. Which means you didn't do anything scummy. I am a bit puzzled how you don't manage to read the post that way.... Like what do you think i meant? 4) Yes at that time i thought it was a possibility. I never said it is impossible for scum to bus. I said it is situational, and bussing at the start of the game is NOT a valid scum strategy (when you don't know how people's reads evolve -- who townies read as scum). However when YOU did scumread HtS there was already thread sentiment where some people thought HtS could be scum, so i don't find that impossible at all, especially when you YOURSELF say you would maybe bus as mafia.... Ironically now, you made a post on HtS where the reasoning for your scumread on her is exactly what i said days ago, yet you also scumread me.
Now can you stop asking retarded questions from me? Also can you stop thinking HtS/rayn/Superbia is the scumteam because that's also retarded. Can you stop being retarded if you are town?
On November 05 2015 06:30 Rels wrote: @rayn from your huge wall:
On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: The fact is, if you read Rels' posts in this light, there is literally way way way more things that are just plain out fucking scummy.
Expand.
On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: Now the point of all this was a couple of things: - Rels; i didn't learn anything, although he called my logic "twisted", and i still don't know why. maybe he explains it someday, as there is nothing twisted in my logic. (i am pretty sure Xatalos & Artanis see what i was after here) - ShoCkeyy; i don't really care since he is scum anyways, but he thinks i am scum (regardless of what he tries to say -- he does), so why does he accept a team proposed by scum? Like.. if i was scum i would put a teammate there, obviously, i am not stupid. - regarding you, i wanted to push your reads out, because i was annoyed of you not giving any concrete reads. I know you would never agree to this regardless of who is mafia and regardless of your alignment. The thing that confuses me is that you kinda called me scummy for it, when there is literally no scum motivation for me to do that (i actually did a similar "anti-town" thing in Nuclear Winter mafia (which never had any anti-town motivation that anyone could explain) -- and caught Ace pants down on N1 ).
Your logic is twisted because the goal of the game is to pass mission, not fail them. I clearly said there is a town motivation behind your proposal though. So I don't understand why I'm on that list ? Expand.
- Your read on ShoCkeyy is basically "he does scummy things so he is town" - Your read on me at the start of the game - Your push on Superbia - You not considering kitaman scum, when there was really no reason to think he is town - There are more things after you posted here, but they are irrelevant to this.
Basically all this is in my filter. Yet you are incapable of finding these things out on your own.
I ask because just before you were pushing on the fact that my cases were "boring", which you don't list here. Every point on this list has been explained: - shockey's read is NOT "he does scummy things so he is town"; it's "if shockey is scum, he's playing to lose the game". - my push on you at the start of the game was logical; - Superbia's attack on Xata was not based on logic and was over the top for the beginning of the game. It makes no sense that you townread him at that point - I played with mafia!kita in Personality mafia; he layed low but provided good analysis on weak people, so we would mislynch them. Here he is laying low and providing good analysis, but on strong townies, which is super different
- then tell me how my case on shockeyy is not him doing scummy things please. - no it was not, it never was, you even fucking said so yourself - that is debatable, and this is "i said you said" so i am not gonna argue about this - on strong townies? like who? me? or Xatalos? by your definition his analysis on strong players are wrong (except for you -- if you consider yourself strong), so how does that make him town again?
I am pretty sure my case on you came after this so it has nothing to do with THIS QUESTION you posed to me.
- I have no idea what is your case on shockey, I suppose I will find it eventually. - It was, the quote I was thinking about was wrong, but the idea was logical - OK - yes, you and Xatalos. He never did something like that in Personality. Actually he did the opposite; I remember being so mad rereading the game at one point, when I was like "mm maybe we should gather every player' read evolution on XXX", and he did it in 10 minutes with a lot of quotes, it was soooo townie I was like "thanks mate!". Here, he is proactive, not reactive.
On November 03 2015 03:15 ShoCkeyy wrote: I'm pretty much going to reject the xata/rayn combo wombo. I'd rather see the first team mentioned - hts,super,xata go through. At least if a sabotage happens, we definitely have a good chance of finding the mafia until the next mission.
Xatalos is null -> that means he has to townread the people i colored green in the post. There is no other possible way he says this.
On November 03 2015 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: ShoCkeyy do you agree you, kitaman and Rels should go to the first mission?
Yea sure why not, I have a better feeling about kitaman and rels than I do of you...
Townreads on kitaman and Rels.
On November 04 2015 04:52 ShoCkeyy wrote: @kita you summed it up here:
"He doesn't seem comfortable giving out statements which he isn't confident about. This could either mean that truly isn't sure and wants more time until it is clear or that he doesn't want to make a statement that could backfire later on in the game."
And also, I have been looking into rayn's previous games. Another thing, I don't need to be on a team, I already know I'm town, so when ever I do get on a team I'll be a 33% chance that it will pass. My current focus atm is trying to find town so when I vote for the teams, I know I'm voting confidently.
Look at the bolded part in this post for further reference.
On November 04 2015 20:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Since this worked so well for me last time I'm gonna go and do it again. Reads of X on Y below: Things of note after I went through the filters: -Superbia doesn't have many opinions at all. I don't like it. He was honed into one thing and one thing alone for a while and didn't really come to anything from it. -I actually came off with a pretty strong townread on sl from it, which I was surprised by. He seems very open and aggressive in his posting which I didn't get from him when he was scum. Seems to actually be trying to do stuff. -Surprised so many people scumread Rels still. He seems really active to me and pushing things. Can people explain this? -Still actually kinda leaning scum on HtS. She seems highly defensive, and in hindsight I still don't really like how she mentioned how I didn't have much time, yet still tried to push a fear read based on not doing much.
Also, Rayn should be on whichever next mission. I also find it odd that shockeyy's actually suspicious of him, I'm not sure that's actually a good play as mafia to do but eh. Could be newbie scum I suppose.
You missed that I town read you and rels also. Another thing, why would I say I don't need to get on a team if I was mafia? Wouldn't I want to be on a team if I was mafia in order to sabotage?... You guys don't make any sense. I also don't need to place myself on my own team if I'm confident on who is town. Back to work.
Now from these posts we can gather the following: Everyone except rayn/Xatalos/sicklucker is townreads. I don't give a fuck if the dude says "i didn't actually say that" because that is just bullshit. If he townreads five people and he is himself town that literally means he thinks the rest of the people are likely to be mafia. Now let's go to this, what i bolded earlier:
My current focus atm is trying to find town so when I vote for the teams, I know I'm voting confidently.
Okay so in his opinion, he has found the townies. This doesn't go along with how he ACTUALLY votes for the HtS team. For two reasons: 1) He "knows" there is scum on the team. In fact he should assume there is two scum (me/Xatalos). Yet he still votes yes, while earlier on saying he will refuse that team. 2) Now if he wants to be "tricky" and yay-vote the team because there are 2 scum in it, that would be okay. But that's not why he says he yay-voted it (i could have somehow understood that explanation).
To elaborate further onto this all. Shockeyy was okay with there being 1 scum on the team while saying his current focus is finding town -- that doesn't really go along with what he said earlier.
A reasonable explanation for the yay-vote should have been "in fact it's better that there are 2 or even 3 scum on the team, as long as we don't send any of those people onto further mission". That's not however his explanation.
This entire section is based on the assumption that the first team contained rayn / Xata. Unless I've been mistaken for a few days, the first team was HTS / Superbia / rayn. Why made you think the first team was Xata / rayn / (I assume HTS) ?
On November 07 2015 21:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Onto Xatalos' team. In Shockeyy's opinion this mission had three scum in it. Yet he refused to yay-vote it. Again, his stance is:
On November 05 2015 23:58 ShoCkeyy wrote: Idk why it's so hard for people to understand I knew the votes would be visible... Also it's not hard to look through my filter.
On November 03 2015 03:15 ShoCkeyy wrote: I'm pretty much going to reject the xata/rayn combo wombo. I'd rather see the first team mentioned - hts,super,xata go through. At least if a sabotage happens, we definitely have a good chance of finding the mafia until the next mission.
The lineup when I voted was HtS, Xata and Kita, which I was perfectly fine with. Also, a bit more on my strategy. Losing the first one is a big deal to me, because then we have 1 out of 3 that have to be mafia. We just do not ever send any of them to any missions. After there will be three missions that are ready to be won since the fourth one needs at least 2 mafia members and we know of already one by then who hasn't gone on any other missions. Obviously there will be two more, as well, but with this game dragging out, it'll eventually be easy to spot them.
... now if he actually believes all of me/Xatalos/SL are mafia, he should upvote this team. Just because then we don't send any of them into further mission --> the town wins, since the town will automatically pick 4 town whoever they pick. Then when the mission passes, the same team gets picked again. Then when the mission passes who cares who is picked onto mission 4.
The other possibility is he doesn't actually townread the people he says he townreads, which also doesn't make any sense.
Dont' know how you can arguee voting NO to a team you think contains three scums is scum indicative. At least I didn't get it reading this.
On November 07 2015 21:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: TLDR; - His approach to how he votes doesn't line up with WHY he acts in some way in some situations and in another way in other situations. - He doesn't really give any reasoning to his reads. The only reasoning he gives is the scumreads on me and Xatalos, and "he is angry", "they are in the thread at the same time", "they both suspected Rels" is not a reason to scumread anyone. - When he is called out of his reads, he says "i didn't really call you scum" -- i think everyone can see why this is literally bullshit, kitaman already pointed this out.
The only scum indicative thing here is the "I didn't really call you scum" part, which could be seen as scum not wanting to commit to a read. The first one is logical from his POV (if the first team go and fails, rayn is confirmed scum; then voting NO to an all scum team). The second one doesn't mean anything unless it's also a meta read ?
Well I was not convinced. And you don't talk about the fact that: - shockey is playing to lose if he's scum, as a team with him has a very small chance to be accepted - he voted NO to a team containing one scum. It's just not logical he's still your #1 scumread (if he's not anymore, my bad)
On November 07 2015 21:56 Half the Sky wrote: Alright, I'm having a tough time following your read on Superbia. From reading your filter.
Can you explain to me in a few sentences:
(1) what made him scummy to you the first cycle (2) what makes you hesistant (based on post 1590) to have him on a team now.
hes lurking like his mafia meta. all i remember him doing is putting my name in the mud. Kinda what scum is expected to do to the fall guy..
I liked Superbia's posts after the failure team, but I disliked the fact that he's lurking so much. Here you mention it's his scum meta ? Does he really have a tendency to lurk as scum ?
On November 07 2015 22:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: Artanis i would really like you to swap me with Rels.
I think Rels has a good chance of being scum though. I'd feel more comfortable with about anyone else but Shockeyy and probably sicklucker (though I'm not entirely convinced it's sicklucker over Xata)
Wait a minute. When did that happen again ? Last time I remember you saying stuff about me, I was "null / fear read", 'cause you found out my scum meta. When did I become scum and why ?
On November 07 2015 22:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: Artanis i would really like you to swap me with Rels.
I think Rels has a good chance of being scum though. I'd feel more comfortable with about anyone else but Shockeyy and probably sicklucker (though I'm not entirely convinced it's sicklucker over Xata)
IT doesn't even matter if the team gets yay'd or not. It forces sicklucker to give actual reads (as now he is just hiding behind "i will nay everything with Xata/rayn in it") and we'll hear something new from Shockeyy unless he wants that team to go on a mission.
Basically if i am on the mission two of the people i think are mafia have a bullshit reason to downvote it and continue saying nothing on other people.
Hmmmm It seems very risky though. And I don't like the idea of nominating a team I think likely has a spy.
On November 07 2015 22:32 Artanis[Xp] wrote: If there is 1 scum in you/xata/sl, and I think there likely is, that means there's 2 scum in Rels/HtS/Shockeyy/Superbia/Kita and I have to select the exact 3 townies from the 5. That seems like a much harder task than selecting the player I have a strong townread on from the mission that failed.
I know but the current concensus seems to be only to talk about people who are nominated atm. You can change your mind, but let's see what those people have to say about the team i proposed.
Okay, fair enough. I have a concert tonight though so my final team will probably be submitted around like 17:45 GMT (+00:00) unless I read enough on mobile to change my mind by the end of it. ##Nominate Artanis[Xp], Rels, kitaman27, Superbia
THAT DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE 1 - unless I missed it, you didn't explain why you thought I was scum 2 - you're nominating a team that you think will fail just because rayn told you ? The only explanation I see is that you're scum trying to pass a failure team, put the blame on me (Haha I told you so!) and on rayn (but rayn told me to do that!).
On November 07 2015 22:37 Half the Sky wrote: Eh, I'm voting any team with Rels down on it. The previous team was definitely better.
Even Rels aside, there should be some discussion on Superbia, whom some people are having doubts on.
Enjoy the concert though.
I could understand you dodging questions when you were working super hard during the week. I can even confirm that is true. But two days ago, then yesterday, I asked you the same question, and I find it super hard to believe you missed it two times when you're free now. So, if only to ease me, can you answer ?
On November 07 2015 08:10 Half the Sky wrote: Alright, I know I said sicklucker was the most likely since he was the "least town" but I think especially because the first mission (!!!) failed, it really might be worth our while to tinfoil rayn and Xatalos to make sure we didn't miss anything.
On November 06 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote: Ah got it James. <3
I'd say at least 2. I think maayyyybe one was smart enough to suck it up and pass? Could be SL for all we know.
And that's a really good question to Shockey, Xata.
That doesn't make sense. If SL is mafia and "suck it up and pass" the team, then he didn't "suck it up", he voted "yes" to a team with a scum in it. You seem to assume: - SL is town, since you're wondering whether 2 or 3 mafias voted against it, so it has to be a clean team - SL is mafia, since he could have suck it up and pass Or is there another logical explanation for this post ? 'cause I'm not seeing it
On November 05 2015 22:03 Xatalos wrote: Rels, thoughts on the current team?
rayn and you are town. SL I'm not sure. Nothing scummy, but he's not doing much. Arta tomorrow will probably elect you / rayn / him; my vote will depend on who I think is towniest between SL and Arta at deadline. Waiting on Arta's answers to me + his analysis on me he said he would do.
That was not rayn's point. rayn's point was that I started scumreading him during the voting phase, when I already had an excuse to vote NO with my view on SL at the time, if voting NO was my goal.
On November 07 2015 22:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: That's not what i asked. Way to talk about something completely different that i in fact asked..... So your reasoning is "because they would then have unexplained change in reads". I believe Rels is good enough to figure a way out here -- especially if, as you claim, Xatalos is scum. Like if that is the case, i am 100% certain Rels could have found a reason to townread sicklucker -- because sicklucker would ACTUALLY be town (and he townread me + Xatalos anyways, before the team nomination went out).
As I said, I could be wrong on Rels so I have to start from scratch on him. The argument you are presenting is that Rels doesn't have TMI (or however you said it) on SL, but this is also based on your pre-conceived notion that sicklucker actually IS scum. If Rels is scum, he doesn't just have to TMI sicklucker, there are other ways. Let's say that SL is town, and that somehow you're wrong on Xata (and you've been wrong on reads before, so don't say you aren't wrong). Surely you can entertain the slightest possibility that you are wrong.
SL being town, me being scum, me pushing SL == me TMI SL ? TMI means Too Much Information or something like that, it's used when someone shows he has info he shouldn't have (like a strong but not logical townread on a townie). So what you're saying doesn't make sense; why did you want to say ?
On November 07 2015 23:23 Superbia wrote: Actually barely have time today, unfortunately.
Imo we have to find out which of the three is scum (maybe more). We can't exclude all 3 of them in the team, because if we get a fail we're essentially fucked in the ass. In my world Xatalos is either exclusively with rayn or not scum (though rayn could be independently scum). SL is a fucked-up case, as I really can't see him in the team ever again. His reactions don't help.
My other problem is that Artanis/HtS are both on the yes votes despite not being on the team, which kind of means I don't want to include them on the team.
The team I would suggest would be: Rayn/Xatalos/Superbia/Kita (or perhaps Artanis instead of Kita, since Kita could be with SL- I'm still a little stuck on who the last member would be- probably someone who is/was on the raynistown-train). Which means that if this team produces a fail rayn would probably be for sure mafia. Yes, I understand that this could be a set up if I'm mafia myself, but get fucked.
So to re-iterate: we cannot make a team which excludes all members of the first team at this point in time, as a fail would mean absolutely fuck all.
I also know that people had some questions for me: rayn and rels. Rels I don't remember your question so please restate it asap (maybe I'll find it after this post). Rayn, I stated that I had the willies on you and HtS even though you both felt town. I've explained this I believe.
Another post I like from Superbia. But once again it's about setup and stuff. Superbia, when will you be available to talk in thread ? For example, your team suggestion makes sense with the assumption SL is mafia; it would be good if you expanded though, 'cause putting 2 members out of 3 of the failed team only makes sense if you're convinced SL is mafia. The question was:
On November 05 2015 17:46 Rels wrote: Now Superbia, can you answer this ?
On November 05 2015 01:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I actually think the argument has gone off base so far that its depleted its usefulness and we should move onto more productive things.
Superbia, you indicated you think Kita is scum for how he read you. Is there anything else you dislike about him? What do you think about the rest of his reads?
Perhaps you are right in this argument. In any case we should probably not pursue it any further now as it will not help me evaluate Rels in any sort of way.
Kita is still up in the air at this point, he's not in my town circle. (My PoE scum list is: Rels, Shockey, Kita, Sicklucker, HtS/maybe you) I'm mostly going off the votes here: - There's a general feel that it is obvious most people will vote no- so scum (as having no QT) are more likely to vote with the general consensus (not sticking out etc.). - Mafia are very likely to vote yes on a mission with a mafia. Unless the consensus is against it. Consensus takes heavy priority over everything for mafia. - Mafia are somewhat likely to vote no on a mission with only town. They can vote yes to look good, especially early on. This can very easily go against consensus ("see, I told you the mission would pass!"). - Mafia are very likely to vote no on a mission with only town, if the situation is dire. - Stand out vote is usually either trolly or complete confidence. I don't think shockey was/had either.
So:
If the team consisted of town, and my PoE is correct: - Mafia is likely: Rels, shockey, sicklucker.
If the team had a mafia, and my PoE is correct: - Mafia is likely: Rels, Kita, Shockey/SL. OR Rels, HtS (who would attempt to frame Kita), shockey/SL.
Alternate world would include both HtS and Kita but eh. Could be, but I don't think so atm. I think rayn's argument as to kita trying to influence the team a lot near deadline is good. I think the fact that none of the team-members votes for the team to pass leans towards a scum being on the team (scum votes as consensus, town votes what they believe, the fact that no one in the team believed therefore leans me more towards a scum being in the team).
I don't understand how you can say "scums are more likely to vote with the general consensus (not sticking out etc.)." and put Shockey in your POE list. You then say "Stand out vote is usually either trolly or complete confidence. I don't think shockey was/had either.", which doesn't explain it. Expand please ?
On November 07 2015 22:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: That's not what i asked. Way to talk about something completely different that i in fact asked..... So your reasoning is "because they would then have unexplained change in reads". I believe Rels is good enough to figure a way out here -- especially if, as you claim, Xatalos is scum. Like if that is the case, i am 100% certain Rels could have found a reason to townread sicklucker -- because sicklucker would ACTUALLY be town (and he townread me + Xatalos anyways, before the team nomination went out).
As I said, I could be wrong on Rels so I have to start from scratch on him. The argument you are presenting is that Rels doesn't have TMI (or however you said it) on SL, but this is also based on your pre-conceived notion that sicklucker actually IS scum. If Rels is scum, he doesn't just have to TMI sicklucker, there are other ways. Let's say that SL is town, and that somehow you're wrong on Xata (and you've been wrong on reads before, so don't say you aren't wrong). Surely you can entertain the slightest possibility that you are wrong.
No it is not.
It is based on the fact YOU think Rels is scum. For Rels to be scum the following must be true: 1) he knows there is mafia on the mission 2) he still nay-votes the mission 3) instead of (as you are arguing) pushing the "easy target" (sicklucker), he decides to push him AND me
Now mafia will obviously want to sabotage the first mission. Rels' play only makes sense as mafia if rayn is scum or Artanis is scum. Because it is highly expected that Artanis will pick AT LEAST rayn (as proven, if you weren't able to figure that out earlier). Otherwise, Rels, by nay-voting the team (where he has an easy scumread on SL after, especially if -- as you say -- Xatalos is scum) hinders his chances of getting a 1-scum mission 1 team. Rels already knows Shockeyy (who you assume is scum with him) will 100% vote nay to the mission.
How how does this make sense again? In a sense that Rels doesn't take the easy way out -- instead he takes the hard way out, of calling by ALSO me scum. Like it would be really easy to Rels for just "make up" a legitmate reason for SL to be town (as by your definition SL is town as Xatalos is scum), and after the mission fails he can go, like you do; "hmm... well one of these guys has to be scum, i guess i was wrong on [insert name here]".
Why is that less likely? Why does he less likely do that as mafia than what he did?
You keep pushing this logic about how Rels would yayvote a mission with a mafia on it, but I really don't see how he could when he scumreads at least one player on the mission and make any sense of it.
I would also still like to hear what your reasons are for considering Xata so town.
I am trying to say i think Rels would have approached the situation differently. Obviously he "can't yay-vote the team" if you just look at what he posted, but my interpretation is that if he was scum he would not post what he did during the voting phase.
My read on Xatalos is based on meta. Like based on the last game i don't really look into small inconsistancies that he posts, or him saying he thinks both me and him (while that i stupid) should be included on the mission 2. If someone wants to prove he is scum feel free to and i am willing to listen, i don't think kitaman's case makes him scum.
The fact that (gameplay-wise) sicklucker thinks i have 60%+ chance of being scum and he is arguing why Xatalos is scum instead of why i am scum should be scum-indicative already. At least more than anything Xatalos has posted imo.
Like i said, i don't see why anything Xatalos has posted is scummy. What am i supposed to argue about?
Hmm, I think that Rels maneuvered himself into this corner and couldn't really get out of it anymore when the mission was being voted for. Bussing makes a decent amount of sense in the setup, so I can imagine him bussing SL for things he thinks look very scummy to make himself look better and attempt to get on a team himself. Which, when it fails, will make the other scumbuddy look better and the amount of people on the mission would widen so SL could make it into a second mission.
As for Xatalos; I kinda expected you to have something specific you read him on other than him not posting anything scummy given the strength of your read.
Wow still thinking I'm scum and creating scenarios to explain my actions. I better have missed your post where you explain why you scumread me; otherwise this makes 0 sense.
On November 08 2015 01:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: Artanis why do you want to change the team if you think i am town?
Because I think Rels is mafia and you are town.
If Rels is mafia why do both of SL and Xatalos say they will vote no?
To look better and/or because they scumread Rels of course.
Why do they not change their read on Rels based on what i said? Actually Xatalos doesn't even scumread Rels... Or like, he has three other people who are "more likely to be mafia than Rels", yet he STILL wants to downvote the team.
Well, I'm willing to add Rels if you're that confident. But if he ends up being scum I will blame you postgame
the thing is if the mission somehow gets sabotaged, people will blame me. and i will get mad for it. and both of the possible mafia (SL/Xata) don't want the team (excluding me) to go anyways.
I think it is just better play, and i think Rels is not mafia. You can blame me post game if he is scum.
Oh that's why you were angry when I got back to the thread and called you mafia =D I'm not that sure you were the mafia in the team. I might have been influenced by all the things you said about me though; but our reads aren't that different, except for Shockey and Arta. So if you're town, please think about it: - every game, you're the reason a bad town gets mislynched. I've use this tendency of you in the two scum games I had. Think about it; why would Shockey act like that if he was scum ? What it the motivation ? - likewise, what is the motivation of Arta of putting me in a team when he seems magicly convinced I'm scum (unless I missed his "Rels is scum") post ?
On November 08 2015 02:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: I would like you to tell us why i am mafia.
I'm not that sure anymore, but here is my problems with your play: - your read on me is not logical. I understand that's OMGUS that I will let that pass EXCEPT that post where you say my play here is "boring" and comparing my town play to my noobking push. I've explained in length why it is not true, and you should have known that. - you're leading the thread, and that scares me. The first team included you; the second team was a suggestion of you (?) or at least a team you were OK with; and that Arta's team is a straigth up order from you. - you were part of a failure team; you voted YES to this failure team. - Arta putting a scumread of his in his nomination is super scummy; if you're scum, you're scum with Arta, and that's why he's listening to you. Why are you townreading the guy ?
HTS you mentioned two times you will do a shallowness evaluation of Xata to know his alignement. But you didn't do it; you hard townread it before the failure; and you are now scumreading it. All of this happened without any shallowness analysis. 1 - Did I miss it ? 2 - If not, why are you scumreading him without it ? And will you do it ?
On November 03 2015 03:15 ShoCkeyy wrote: I'm pretty much going to reject the xata/rayn combo wombo. I'd rather see the first team mentioned - hts,super,xata go through. At least if a sabotage happens, we definitely have a good chance of finding the mafia until the next mission.
Hmmm... I guess there is an explanation at least.... Of some sort...
So if I got this right... shockeyy would only vote for missions where there's one of me/rayn, but not both......? shockeyy?
Yes, but if you used your brain, you would understand why... If both of you are on a mission together and one mission gets sabotaged, then it's hard to differentiate wether or not you both sabotaged it. If you go on solo missions, rather than together, it makes it easier to see if you or rayn are mafia. Obviously you both got you wanted and are now butt buddies on the same team.
OK.
Shockey, your way of thinking doesn't make sense in this game. The primary goal is not to find scums, it's to win three missions. If you vote three missions with one scum each to "find out the scums", you solve the game; but you lose it in the same time. Now I'm not saying this makes you scum. Actually that's a town mindset: solving the game by finding out who is scum. But even if it's super captivating, it's flawed. You win by winning three missions. If you push your reasonning, it's better to vote yes to a team that has two scums inside than one scum inside, since you can get rid of these three players and have a good shot of winning the next three missions. I think it's twisted, since the goal of the game is to win missions, and finding scums is the way to achieve it, not the opposite; but I see the town motivation behind it.
Please think about it. Pushing for teams with only one scum in it is exactly what scums want.
On November 05 2015 06:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Need to re-eval rels more when I actually have a pc and can compare filters. Moving him back to null/fear read though.
On November 05 2015 22:29 Half the Sky wrote: On the topic of Artanis, I know he said he'd free up more Thursday so I look forward to reading more from him. Can't recall if he has capoeira today though, IRL he has been on a tear with that.
Which means if he drops by in the UK, his first objective will be to dropkick me. Damn it.
Nope, I'm gonna mostly have time for the next four hours. I may drop by to dropkick you anyway though
Oh jesus rels is involved in everything as mafia too x_x
How do you know I'm involved in everything as town as well ? I'm pretty sure we never played together ??
Two things: A) I assume most people have far more involved town games than scumgames. My townread on you came from the fact that you seem very active and involved in almost every discussion. That's generally enough to townread most players. B) I have seen you play town before, though I haven't played with you. I'm not sure which game I was observing anymore but I have done so. Also C) I never called you scum. I said you're back to null because what I thought made you town is apparently not alignment indicative.
OK that makes sense. Security check: can you link me to the game in question ? All my games are in my profile so that should take you like 5 seconds. Im also pretty sure you said you would be reading my filter and evaluating me. Will you do it, or are you pulling a Hts ?
Student Mafia XVI. I was a coach there too.
I did kinda evaluate you, though not as thoroughly yet as I need to. I also want to know why you suddenly decided to re-eval Rayn.
Didn't finish the eval. Rels why did you re evaluate rayn ?
On November 06 2015 18:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm kind of around but at work. Not much to say until we find out if the mission passes or not honestly. If it does, I'm obviously nominating myself with the other three. Don't want to say too much about it before the pass/fail happens to not give any clues to any spy whether they should sabotage or not.
@Rels/HtS your explanations were satisfactory, though I'd still like to hear from HtS what exactly changed her mind on me when she's on a pc.
On November 06 2015 19:01 Rels wrote: [quote] Why do you expect a conclusion when we don't know what will happen ? I will do a proper vote analysis when we know the result. What I'm thinking above is independant from my reads, so it will be interesting to match vote analysis with reads.
Because I just don't understand the point of the post you made.
Thinking about the different possible scenarios that could happen from that vote pattern, regardless of what I think of the players myself, so it's easier to understand what's going on when we get the result.
I just don't really get why you're going into scenario's where you'll never be able to discern which is which though. Like I said;
being "unlikely" that they'd pass a mission with a mafia in it only to follow it up with the fact that it is possible
You list the possible scenarios, but I'm pretty sure everyone's already figured that if the 3-person mission passes and the 4-person mission fails, it is in fact possible for one of the people in the 3-person mission to still be a spy.
Cause I want it to be clear in my head. And that worked; I discovered that if success-then-fail happened, determining your alignment via behaviour will solve a big part of the game.
Well yes, determining the alignment of the 4th player when there's a 3-success then 4-fail is probably important. It just seems like you went for a pretty.. roundabout way of approaching it?
Eh, whatever, it's not that important I guess. I kinda wanna hear more from you about Rayn and SL, but I think it's best to wait for the results first.
LOL OK said like that it's sound super dumb. (= It has something else to do with voting though: if the team is clean, the scum team is probably shockey / Superbia / kita. If one of them is wrong, you have to be the last scum, since the team is clean and HTS could have voted "no" super easily with what she was saying just before deadline.
How are you ever going to determine if the team is clean though? This is what I didn't get from your analysis.
Well, by playing the game. There is no way to know for sure: we'll have to use behaviour analysis, vote analysis, etc. I like having all the different scenarios in my head, so I can see which one is more likely; like if I cross this analysis with my reads, I'm pretty sure the team is not clean, 'cause that would either mean that kita / shockey / Superbia are the scums or that you are scum and voted for a clean team.
So, your analysis decided that if a 3-player team passes and a 4-player team fails, we need behaviour and vote analysis to determine whether the 4th player is scum or town, and thus decide whether the 3-player team is clean or not.
I think you may be on to something here.
(after a back and forth) You made a post that didn't say anything.
On November 07 2015 18:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: I really think you should pick Rels. You will never get this team yay-voted.
Why do you suddenly think Rels is town?
Because it doesn't make sense that 2 sscum voted nay and Shockeyy is 100% scum.
I can see it making sense. When scum scumread players on the suggested team, they can't yayvote regardless of what they want. Shockey scumread you and xata and rels scumread you and SL. Even if they wanted to yayvote, they couldn't given their reads.
Though I guess I can see how Rels' scumread on both of you came after the team was already nominated, so it was a choice and he didn't really need to turn around and do that. I need to check if he scumread SL before the team was suggested now.
On November 07 2015 19:05 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Yeah Rels had been suspicious of SL a lot already so there was no way he could vote yes to the mission.
On November 07 2015 08:00 Fidei86 wrote: !!! MISSION FAILED !!! 1 Sabotage action detected.
Day 2 Artanis[Xp]'s Nomination Phase Phase will end in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 7 November 2015.
Alright then we have at least one scum in Xata / rayn / SL. Then I think we have at the very least 2 scums in Xata / rayn / SL / HTS / Arta, maybe 3.
I think that's a reasonable assumption... But rayn is most likely town, so I guess that would mean HTS, Artanis and SL would be scum? Kind of hard to see at least Artanis being scum, HTS maybe. So I'd guess there are 1+ scum hiding in the NO votes as well.
Don't know, I'm kinda re evaluating everything here. The obvious answer to me is "rayn is scum, SL is town, rayn put SL to blame him when the team fails." Then at least HTS or Arta with him, maybe both. But SL is not obvious town either, so I'm not sure. And let's not forget YOU are the one that nominated the failing team. If you're scum, that would mean you broke your meta, but that's possible.
Okay, hold up, timeline: 1. Rels considered SL scummy. 2. Rels started considering Rayn scummy. 3. Rels still considered SL scummy. 4. Mission fails. 5. Rels considers SL obvious town because he's being set up by Rayn. What happened between 3 and 5 that made you think it's MORE likely for SL to be town after the mission fails?
On November 07 2015 22:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: Artanis i would really like you to swap me with Rels.
I think Rels has a good chance of being scum though. I'd feel more comfortable with about anyone else but Shockeyy and probably sicklucker (though I'm not entirely convinced it's sicklucker over Xata)
Rels has a good chance of being scum.
This makes no sense. I'm null - need eval; since then: - Arta commented on two weird things I did from his POV - I voted NO to a failure team and I have a good chance of being scum ?
I think the scum team is HTS / Arta / XX. XX being one of Xata / rayn / SL. I have a hard time seeing HTS and rayn together; it's possible but unlikely, especially given rayn's view on bussing in this setup. I also have a hard time seeing HTS and Xata together, seeing how HTS just attacked Xata. So SL is the most likely.
The thing is Arta / rayn makes some sense. No hesitation to call the other town; and Artanis accepting a team rayn suggests that contains one of his scumread. If I'm wrong on HTS, the team is rayn / Arta / (Xata or Superbia). The third member is a problem; Xata being scum would mean two scums in the team which is subobtimal; and Superbia voted NO to the damn team.
On November 08 2015 04:07 Rels wrote: HTS you mentioned two times you will do a shallowness evaluation of Xata to know his alignement. But you didn't do it; you hard townread it before the failure; and you are now scumreading it. All of this happened without any shallowness analysis. 1 - Did I miss it ? 2 - If not, why are you scumreading him without it ? And will you do it ?
On mobile.
I took a comparison of scumreads in response to Kita's question and I made two posts and a few points.
I cited the specific posts in my filter and asked people to comment.
Superbia looked in it IIRC and couldn't make up his mind on Xata.
I assume it's this then:
On November 07 2015 22:18 Half the Sky wrote: sicklucker, I did some digging in Xatalos' filter. This was his reason for PoEing you out as the scum in the mission team.
On November 07 2015 09:25 Xatalos wrote: Mehh... I guess there's the very slight argument against rayn that he so easily townread Superbia when I got the opposite impression from the events... I just kind of don't think rayn would go out of his way to townread Superbia in that situation as scum, no matter what Superbia is. From what I remember, he scumread very aggressively in the VS game as scum (for not-so-good reasons as well), but didn't have many townreads at all. Meanwhile in the last Vanilla game as town he gave away townreads very easily (especially the townreads to me, Vivax and ritoky right away). So this basically falls more into his town play than scum play, I think.
On November 07 2015 09:31 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, I like how rayn approaches the all-scum nomination thing. He even warns me not to talk about it when I come to the thread I don't think there's any scum motivation in preventing discussion about that topic.
On November 07 2015 09:37 Xatalos wrote: I guess it has to be SL.... I just don't see the scum motivation in rayn's filter. He's very "balanced", considering a lot of options and not just pushing a single agenda like in the VS game (lynch rsoultin D1 -> lynch me D2). Plus the contents of the last two posts about him..
What are your thoughts on this? (I have some, but as you were on the failed mission team I want to hear yours.)
On November 07 2015 22:28 Half the Sky wrote: Actually I missed this quote about Xatalos' read on you SL.
On November 07 2015 08:53 Xatalos wrote: I guess SL's position on me and the missions is somewhat unnatural. He first scumreads me for not 100% townreading him at first... But he'd still want to go on a mission during my leadership, and even include me on the second mission if the first mission passed.
On November 04 2015 20:35 sicklucker wrote: Its also not me being biased the chart says were the top 3 towns more or less as no one scum reads us. I know you town read artanis so from your pov if your town submitting that team makes sense.
No one understands the logic of putting yourself in the team better then me but you also need that team to pass and its only attempt 2 of 5 so people are still very picky like me. Also if the said mission passes it would make a likely town circle of 4 people rather then 3 im not totally sure the mechanics but that seems like a good spot to be in.
Not really sure what his read on me was at this point? Still scum? Null? It kind of feels like it's a town lean or something already.
And then when he's included with me and rayn, I'm very likely town...?
On November 05 2015 09:08 sicklucker wrote: oh i liked the xatalos filter thing. i think we should pass this its very likely 3 towns from my pov
Would be very curious to hear about this read progression on me.
Ugh, the sad part here is that I could see both of you playing suboptimally here too. I don't think Xata should have had the reads he did on rayn, post-failure, the first two quotes he posted are IMO NAI, the second quote especially for anyone of either alignment who knows the game well can talk about the scum-packing strategy. (Kita did as well and I know I disregarded that as NAI and was townreading him on other things.)
The problem here is that when I read your filter, I can actually understand your progression on Xatalos. That actually makes Xatalos worse to me and thus of the three, the most likely scum.
On November 07 2015 22:40 Half the Sky wrote: Right now, I actually think based on Xatalos post-mission failure posts there's a decent chance he might be the sabotaging player. Anyone who comes in later today, read post 1618 and 1625 and tell me what you think.
So Xata is scum because he townreads rayn too easily after the failure, and questioned SL's read evolution on him when it was apprently clear. There is no shallow stuff analysis. You felt this was enough to not warrant one ?
On November 08 2015 05:10 Half the Sky wrote: ebwop
PPA - percentage play analysis
I need to get to a PC but it's not happening until after deadline.
Also people if I'm missing any questions (even yours Rels) flag me please. Even if I never get on a team if people can understand my direction on things, haphazard as it might be at least you'll consider the fact other people might be Mafia. (At least Superbia understood for a second why I'm playing a suboptimal game.)
On November 07 2015 22:37 Half the Sky wrote: Eh, I'm voting any team with Rels down on it. The previous team was definitely better.
Even Rels aside, there should be some discussion on Superbia, whom some people are having doubts on.
Enjoy the concert though.
I could understand you dodging questions when you were working super hard during the week. I can even confirm that is true. But two days ago, then yesterday, I asked you the same question, and I find it super hard to believe you missed it two times when you're free now. So, if only to ease me, can you answer ?
On November 07 2015 08:10 Half the Sky wrote: Alright, I know I said sicklucker was the most likely since he was the "least town" but I think especially because the first mission (!!!) failed, it really might be worth our while to tinfoil rayn and Xatalos to make sure we didn't miss anything.
Can you explain this ?
On November 06 2015 18:22 Rels wrote:
On November 06 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote: Ah got it James. <3
I'd say at least 2. I think maayyyybe one was smart enough to suck it up and pass? Could be SL for all we know.
And that's a really good question to Shockey, Xata.
That doesn't make sense. If SL is mafia and "suck it up and pass" the team, then he didn't "suck it up", he voted "yes" to a team with a scum in it. You seem to assume: - SL is town, since you're wondering whether 2 or 3 mafias voted against it, so it has to be a clean team - SL is mafia, since he could have suck it up and pass Or is there another logical explanation for this post ? 'cause I'm not seeing it
On November 08 2015 02:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: I would like you to tell us why i am mafia.
I'm not that sure anymore, but here is my problems with your play: - your read on me is not logical. I understand that's OMGUS that I will let that pass EXCEPT that post where you say my play here is "boring" and comparing my town play to my noobking push. I've explained in length why it is not true, and you should have known that. - you're leading the thread, and that scares me. The first team included you; the second team was a suggestion of you (?) or at least a team you were OK with; and that Arta's team is a straigth up order from you. - you were part of a failure team; you voted YES to this failure team. - Arta putting a scumread of his in his nomination is super scummy; if you're scum, you're scum with Arta, and that's why he's listening to you. Why are you townreading the guy ?
can you see why this is super bad? none of the reasons you point out here actually make me mafia.
Except it does. Everyone is talking about how good your scum game is. If you're scum, you're playing the perfect game; failed mission 1, but still being townread by quite a few people. I accepted being scumread for reason like "Rels is not so bad to scumread me with this stupid meta read; therefore he's scum". But your "boring" case on me was super forced. And you didn't answer the crucial part. Why is Arta town ? The guy scumreads me for no reason, then puts me in his team because you asked him to.
On November 08 2015 05:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: last game you literally scumread a top townie because they made a really fucking good case on scum. you managed to ignore that case and instead thought the person who made the case is mafia. think for a while.
please.
Except not. She was in the "never scumread her" part at EON1 for exactly that. Then other stuff happened; I definitely didn't scumread her for that case. The case was good; I clearly stated I would have pushed Eversince if scott wasn't so scummy.
And since you're playing the "remember how you sucked in that game" card, think about your play. As town, you always make people mislynch bad townie just because bad = scum for you. Sometimes it's true, and sometimes there is no possible scum motivation behind the play. So think about it: if Shockey is scum, he's playing to lose.
On November 08 2015 05:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: i am not giving you options. shape up or get scumread.
you'll hear about this post-game if you are town.
If you're town, let's make a bet. The one with the better reads right now wins; the other will have to praise how much of a French resistance god the winner is. Excluding you and me, I think we only completely differ in Shockey / Arta right ? (hint: the other is you)
On November 08 2015 04:28 Rels wrote: I think the scum team is HTS / Arta / XX. XX being one of Xata / rayn / SL. I have a hard time seeing HTS and rayn together; it's possible but unlikely, especially given rayn's view on bussing in this setup. I also have a hard time seeing HTS and Xata together, seeing how HTS just attacked Xata. So SL is the most likely.
The thing is Arta / rayn makes some sense. No hesitation to call the other town; and Artanis accepting a team rayn suggests that contains one of his scumread. If I'm wrong on HTS, the team is rayn / Arta / (Xata or Superbia). The third member is a problem; Xata being scum would mean two scums in the team which is subobtimal; and Superbia voted NO to the damn team.
On November 07 2015 22:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: Artanis i would really like you to swap me with Rels.
I think Rels has a good chance of being scum though. I'd feel more comfortable with about anyone else but Shockeyy and probably sicklucker (though I'm not entirely convinced it's sicklucker over Xata)
IT doesn't even matter if the team gets yay'd or not. It forces sicklucker to give actual reads (as now he is just hiding behind "i will nay everything with Xata/rayn in it") and we'll hear something new from Shockeyy unless he wants that team to go on a mission.
Basically if i am on the mission two of the people i think are mafia have a bullshit reason to downvote it and continue saying nothing on other people.
Hmmmm It seems very risky though. And I don't like the idea of nominating a team I think likely has a spy.
On November 07 2015 22:32 Artanis[Xp] wrote: If there is 1 scum in you/xata/sl, and I think there likely is, that means there's 2 scum in Rels/HtS/Shockeyy/Superbia/Kita and I have to select the exact 3 townies from the 5. That seems like a much harder task than selecting the player I have a strong townread on from the mission that failed.
I know but the current concensus seems to be only to talk about people who are nominated atm. You can change your mind, but let's see what those people have to say about the team i proposed.
Okay, fair enough. I have a concert tonight though so my final team will probably be submitted around like 17:45 GMT (+00:00) unless I read enough on mobile to change my mind by the end of it. ##Nominate Artanis[Xp], Rels, kitaman27, Superbia
THAT DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE 1 - unless I missed it, you didn't explain why you thought I was scum 2 - you're nominating a team that you think will fail just because rayn told you ? The only explanation I see is that you're scum trying to pass a failure team, put the blame on me (Haha I told you so!) and on rayn (but rayn told me to do that!).
Can you explain what is the town motivation behind Arta's nomination ? I also checked #1 and his read evolution on me is not displayed in thread. See my big post last page.
On November 08 2015 06:28 Xatalos wrote: Hm Rels... So your suggested most likely scumteam is HTS/Artanis/SL? How do you townread shockeyy over all of them?
On November 06 2015 19:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote: [quote] So, your analysis decided that if a 3-player team passes and a 4-player team fails, we need behaviour and vote analysis to determine whether the 4th player is scum or town, and thus decide whether the 3-player team is clean or not.
I think you may be on to something here.
You're a little shit =D
Thanks for playing!
Pretty cool (= I'm picturing you with your folder of "funny and town-looking images", waiting for the perfect opportunity to post one
Is that an indirect way of calling me mafia?
No. Did you feel attacked by that post ?
The way you phrased it made me think you were scumreading me, yes. Generally people don't feel the need to specify "town-looking images" when they're talking about people they are in fact townreading.
It's pretty obvious it was a joke though.
Given the fact that you've been dancing around my alignment for a while now I didn't find it a very obvious joke, but very well.
Talk to me about Shockeyy. You seem to be one of the only people townreading him.
First, his play makes no sense for scum. His scumreads are the two most townread people this game, and he's keeping them since the beginning of the game; and I think he might be right on rayn. This has transformed him into someone whom nobody listens to and nobody picks in their team. If that guy is mafia, he's playing to lose the game.
Second, he has this idea of solving the game that guides his posts and votes; trapping one scum with two townies so we can ignore that guy forever. That's obviously not a great idea, since scum doesn't really care about being ignored if he has made a mission failed; but the fact that he is believing it so hard makes him town in my eyes, even though the idea itself is bad.
On November 08 2015 06:28 Xatalos wrote: Hm Rels... So your suggested most likely scumteam is HTS/Artanis/SL? How do you townread shockeyy over all of them?
On November 06 2015 21:38 Rels wrote:
On November 06 2015 21:28 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On November 06 2015 21:25 Rels wrote:
On November 06 2015 21:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On November 06 2015 21:22 Rels wrote:
On November 06 2015 21:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On November 06 2015 21:18 Rels wrote:
On November 06 2015 21:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote: [quote] Thanks for playing!
Pretty cool (= I'm picturing you with your folder of "funny and town-looking images", waiting for the perfect opportunity to post one
Is that an indirect way of calling me mafia?
No. Did you feel attacked by that post ?
The way you phrased it made me think you were scumreading me, yes. Generally people don't feel the need to specify "town-looking images" when they're talking about people they are in fact townreading.
It's pretty obvious it was a joke though.
Given the fact that you've been dancing around my alignment for a while now I didn't find it a very obvious joke, but very well.
Talk to me about Shockeyy. You seem to be one of the only people townreading him.
First, his play makes no sense for scum. His scumreads are the two most townread people this game, and he's keeping them since the beginning of the game; and I think he might be right on rayn. This has transformed him into someone whom nobody listens to and nobody picks in their team. If that guy is mafia, he's playing to lose the game.
Second, he has this idea of solving the game that guides his posts and votes; trapping one scum with two townies so we can ignore that guy forever. That's obviously not a great idea, since scum doesn't really care about being ignored if he has made a mission failed; but the fact that he is believing it so hard makes him town in my eyes, even though the idea itself is bad.
+ he's part of the NO crew.
I'll admit that the NO vote makes him townier, but pushing a bad idea? >.> He seems generally pretty clueless so I don't think him pushing me/rayn makes him town especially if we're both town.. That just gives an easy excuse to vote against an all-town team if needed?
Wow you're the third person I have this discussion with: Arta, rayn, now you. Coincidence ? I think his play makes him super unlikely to be part of any team, so it's suicidal => no scum motivation to play like that. I'm like super tired of talking about shockey actually, it's not like he's part of the submited team. What do you think of Arta scumreading me but nominating me in his team ?
On November 08 2015 05:10 Half the Sky wrote: ebwop
PPA - percentage play analysis
I need to get to a PC but it's not happening until after deadline.
Also people if I'm missing any questions (even yours Rels) flag me please. Even if I never get on a team if people can understand my direction on things, haphazard as it might be at least you'll consider the fact other people might be Mafia. (At least Superbia understood for a second why I'm playing a suboptimal game.)
On November 08 2015 03:33 Rels wrote:
On November 07 2015 22:37 Half the Sky wrote: Eh, I'm voting any team with Rels down on it. The previous team was definitely better.
Even Rels aside, there should be some discussion on Superbia, whom some people are having doubts on.
Enjoy the concert though.
I could understand you dodging questions when you were working super hard during the week. I can even confirm that is true. But two days ago, then yesterday, I asked you the same question, and I find it super hard to believe you missed it two times when you're free now. So, if only to ease me, can you answer ?
On November 07 2015 09:18 Rels wrote:
On November 07 2015 08:10 Half the Sky wrote: Alright, I know I said sicklucker was the most likely since he was the "least town" but I think especially because the first mission (!!!) failed, it really might be worth our while to tinfoil rayn and Xatalos to make sure we didn't miss anything.
Can you explain this ?
On November 06 2015 18:22 Rels wrote:
On November 06 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote: Ah got it James. <3
I'd say at least 2. I think maayyyybe one was smart enough to suck it up and pass? Could be SL for all we know.
And that's a really good question to Shockey, Xata.
That doesn't make sense. If SL is mafia and "suck it up and pass" the team, then he didn't "suck it up", he voted "yes" to a team with a scum in it. You seem to assume: - SL is town, since you're wondering whether 2 or 3 mafias voted against it, so it has to be a clean team - SL is mafia, since he could have suck it up and pass Or is there another logical explanation for this post ? 'cause I'm not seeing it
So I saw this. I'll be honest, from this I actually cannot tell what you are asking, - I think you are asking me to make sense of why I think SL is sucking it up? I'll start by clarifying my statement.
The "smart enough to suck it up and pass" comment was in relation to the fact that in RL resistance most three-person teams (mission 1) pass, based on my previous assumption that that three-person team was town and even with the conventional strategy that a scum would not want to give themselves away by failing the first mission.
A scum SL (or scum anyone) would in theory be reluctant to pass that team.
That comment was made BEFORE the mission failed. See page 67 of the game, and this was as Xatalos was talking about the no votes being scum votes. And that I was townreading xata/rayn at the time and making the assumption at that time the "least town" in sicklucker was mafia. (Posts 1334/1336)
That was not in any way related to post-mission failure. If you read the comment in context on page 67, it should make more sense.
That's why it sucks to answer a question so long after the question was made just after your list, during the phase before the failure reveal, whatever the name of the the phase is. So I reformulate: if sl is mafia in this theory, why do you say at least 2 mafias were against the vote ?
On November 07 2015 22:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: Artanis i would really like you to swap me with Rels.
I think Rels has a good chance of being scum though. I'd feel more comfortable with about anyone else but Shockeyy and probably sicklucker (though I'm not entirely convinced it's sicklucker over Xata)
IT doesn't even matter if the team gets yay'd or not. It forces sicklucker to give actual reads (as now he is just hiding behind "i will nay everything with Xata/rayn in it") and we'll hear something new from Shockeyy unless he wants that team to go on a mission.
Basically if i am on the mission two of the people i think are mafia have a bullshit reason to downvote it and continue saying nothing on other people.
Hmmmm It seems very risky though. And I don't like the idea of nominating a team I think likely has a spy.
On November 07 2015 22:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On November 07 2015 22:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 07 2015 22:32 Artanis[Xp] wrote: If there is 1 scum in you/xata/sl, and I think there likely is, that means there's 2 scum in Rels/HtS/Shockeyy/Superbia/Kita and I have to select the exact 3 townies from the 5. That seems like a much harder task than selecting the player I have a strong townread on from the mission that failed.
I know but the current concensus seems to be only to talk about people who are nominated atm. You can change your mind, but let's see what those people have to say about the team i proposed.
Okay, fair enough. I have a concert tonight though so my final team will probably be submitted around like 17:45 GMT (+00:00) unless I read enough on mobile to change my mind by the end of it. ##Nominate Artanis[Xp], Rels, kitaman27, Superbia
THAT DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE 1 - unless I missed it, you didn't explain why you thought I was scum 2 - you're nominating a team that you think will fail just because rayn told you ? The only explanation I see is that you're scum trying to pass a failure team, put the blame on me (Haha I told you so!) and on rayn (but rayn told me to do that!).
I have explained why I think you're likely scum. The gist of it comes down to how it seems like you're just throwing shit at everyone and seeing what sticks, and how you seem to be posting just to be posting. That "vote analysis" thing I dissected was an example of that.
On November 08 2015 18:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: Now for the rest of the game i am going to call HtS bad and make her feel bad. Hope she is scum.
Please Rayn, don't Saying this off the record: I enjoy playing with you and I think you're a great dude, but you need to not allow things to get to you so much man. People can have differing opinions on things and people can be wrong. That doesn't give you the authority to be a dick over it. Hit me up and we'll play a game if you're still feeling shitty.
1 - your scumread on me wasn't displayed in thread, as demonstrated here: + Show Spoiler +
On November 08 2015 04:20 Rels wrote: Arta's read evolution on me:
On November 05 2015 06:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Need to re-eval rels more when I actually have a pc and can compare filters. Moving him back to null/fear read though.
On November 05 2015 22:29 Half the Sky wrote: On the topic of Artanis, I know he said he'd free up more Thursday so I look forward to reading more from him. Can't recall if he has capoeira today though, IRL he has been on a tear with that.
Which means if he drops by in the UK, his first objective will be to dropkick me. Damn it.
Nope, I'm gonna mostly have time for the next four hours. I may drop by to dropkick you anyway though
Oh jesus rels is involved in everything as mafia too x_x
How do you know I'm involved in everything as town as well ? I'm pretty sure we never played together ??
Two things: A) I assume most people have far more involved town games than scumgames. My townread on you came from the fact that you seem very active and involved in almost every discussion. That's generally enough to townread most players. B) I have seen you play town before, though I haven't played with you. I'm not sure which game I was observing anymore but I have done so. Also C) I never called you scum. I said you're back to null because what I thought made you town is apparently not alignment indicative.
OK that makes sense. Security check: can you link me to the game in question ? All my games are in my profile so that should take you like 5 seconds. Im also pretty sure you said you would be reading my filter and evaluating me. Will you do it, or are you pulling a Hts ?
Student Mafia XVI. I was a coach there too.
I did kinda evaluate you, though not as thoroughly yet as I need to. I also want to know why you suddenly decided to re-eval Rayn.
Didn't finish the eval. Rels why did you re evaluate rayn ?
On November 06 2015 18:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm kind of around but at work. Not much to say until we find out if the mission passes or not honestly. If it does, I'm obviously nominating myself with the other three. Don't want to say too much about it before the pass/fail happens to not give any clues to any spy whether they should sabotage or not.
@Rels/HtS your explanations were satisfactory, though I'd still like to hear from HtS what exactly changed her mind on me when she's on a pc.
On November 06 2015 19:03 Artanis[Xp] wrote: [quote] Because I just don't understand the point of the post you made.
Thinking about the different possible scenarios that could happen from that vote pattern, regardless of what I think of the players myself, so it's easier to understand what's going on when we get the result.
I just don't really get why you're going into scenario's where you'll never be able to discern which is which though. Like I said;
being "unlikely" that they'd pass a mission with a mafia in it only to follow it up with the fact that it is possible
You list the possible scenarios, but I'm pretty sure everyone's already figured that if the 3-person mission passes and the 4-person mission fails, it is in fact possible for one of the people in the 3-person mission to still be a spy.
Cause I want it to be clear in my head. And that worked; I discovered that if success-then-fail happened, determining your alignment via behaviour will solve a big part of the game.
Well yes, determining the alignment of the 4th player when there's a 3-success then 4-fail is probably important. It just seems like you went for a pretty.. roundabout way of approaching it?
Eh, whatever, it's not that important I guess. I kinda wanna hear more from you about Rayn and SL, but I think it's best to wait for the results first.
LOL OK said like that it's sound super dumb. (= It has something else to do with voting though: if the team is clean, the scum team is probably shockey / Superbia / kita. If one of them is wrong, you have to be the last scum, since the team is clean and HTS could have voted "no" super easily with what she was saying just before deadline.
How are you ever going to determine if the team is clean though? This is what I didn't get from your analysis.
Well, by playing the game. There is no way to know for sure: we'll have to use behaviour analysis, vote analysis, etc. I like having all the different scenarios in my head, so I can see which one is more likely; like if I cross this analysis with my reads, I'm pretty sure the team is not clean, 'cause that would either mean that kita / shockey / Superbia are the scums or that you are scum and voted for a clean team.
So, your analysis decided that if a 3-player team passes and a 4-player team fails, we need behaviour and vote analysis to determine whether the 4th player is scum or town, and thus decide whether the 3-player team is clean or not.
I think you may be on to something here.
(after a back and forth) You made a post that didn't say anything.
On November 07 2015 18:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: I really think you should pick Rels. You will never get this team yay-voted.
Why do you suddenly think Rels is town?
Because it doesn't make sense that 2 sscum voted nay and Shockeyy is 100% scum.
I can see it making sense. When scum scumread players on the suggested team, they can't yayvote regardless of what they want. Shockey scumread you and xata and rels scumread you and SL. Even if they wanted to yayvote, they couldn't given their reads.
Though I guess I can see how Rels' scumread on both of you came after the team was already nominated, so it was a choice and he didn't really need to turn around and do that. I need to check if he scumread SL before the team was suggested now.
On November 07 2015 08:00 Fidei86 wrote: !!! MISSION FAILED !!! 1 Sabotage action detected.
Day 2 Artanis[Xp]'s Nomination Phase Phase will end in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 7 November 2015.
Alright then we have at least one scum in Xata / rayn / SL. Then I think we have at the very least 2 scums in Xata / rayn / SL / HTS / Arta, maybe 3.
I think that's a reasonable assumption... But rayn is most likely town, so I guess that would mean HTS, Artanis and SL would be scum? Kind of hard to see at least Artanis being scum, HTS maybe. So I'd guess there are 1+ scum hiding in the NO votes as well.
Don't know, I'm kinda re evaluating everything here. The obvious answer to me is "rayn is scum, SL is town, rayn put SL to blame him when the team fails." Then at least HTS or Arta with him, maybe both. But SL is not obvious town either, so I'm not sure. And let's not forget YOU are the one that nominated the failing team. If you're scum, that would mean you broke your meta, but that's possible.
Okay, hold up, timeline: 1. Rels considered SL scummy. 2. Rels started considering Rayn scummy. 3. Rels still considered SL scummy. 4. Mission fails. 5. Rels considers SL obvious town because he's being set up by Rayn. What happened between 3 and 5 that made you think it's MORE likely for SL to be town after the mission fails?
On November 07 2015 22:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: Artanis i would really like you to swap me with Rels.
I think Rels has a good chance of being scum though. I'd feel more comfortable with about anyone else but Shockeyy and probably sicklucker (though I'm not entirely convinced it's sicklucker over Xata)
Rels has a good chance of being scum.
This makes no sense. I'm null - need eval; since then: - Arta commented on two weird things I did from his POV - I voted NO to a failure team and I have a good chance of being scum ?
Artanis. Explain yourself.
Plus, assuming you think I'm scum; you think Xata or SL is scum; who is the third from your POV ? Either HTS, or one of the NO voters ?
On November 08 2015 05:10 Half the Sky wrote: ebwop
PPA - percentage play analysis
I need to get to a PC but it's not happening until after deadline.
Also people if I'm missing any questions (even yours Rels) flag me please. Even if I never get on a team if people can understand my direction on things, haphazard as it might be at least you'll consider the fact other people might be Mafia. (At least Superbia understood for a second why I'm playing a suboptimal game.)
On November 08 2015 03:33 Rels wrote:
On November 07 2015 22:37 Half the Sky wrote: Eh, I'm voting any team with Rels down on it. The previous team was definitely better.
Even Rels aside, there should be some discussion on Superbia, whom some people are having doubts on.
Enjoy the concert though.
I could understand you dodging questions when you were working super hard during the week. I can even confirm that is true. But two days ago, then yesterday, I asked you the same question, and I find it super hard to believe you missed it two times when you're free now. So, if only to ease me, can you answer ?
On November 07 2015 09:18 Rels wrote:
On November 07 2015 08:10 Half the Sky wrote: Alright, I know I said sicklucker was the most likely since he was the "least town" but I think especially because the first mission (!!!) failed, it really might be worth our while to tinfoil rayn and Xatalos to make sure we didn't miss anything.
Can you explain this ?
On November 06 2015 18:22 Rels wrote:
On November 06 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote: Ah got it James. <3
I'd say at least 2. I think maayyyybe one was smart enough to suck it up and pass? Could be SL for all we know.
And that's a really good question to Shockey, Xata.
That doesn't make sense. If SL is mafia and "suck it up and pass" the team, then he didn't "suck it up", he voted "yes" to a team with a scum in it. You seem to assume: - SL is town, since you're wondering whether 2 or 3 mafias voted against it, so it has to be a clean team - SL is mafia, since he could have suck it up and pass Or is there another logical explanation for this post ? 'cause I'm not seeing it
So I saw this. I'll be honest, from this I actually cannot tell what you are asking, - I think you are asking me to make sense of why I think SL is sucking it up? I'll start by clarifying my statement.
The "smart enough to suck it up and pass" comment was in relation to the fact that in RL resistance most three-person teams (mission 1) pass, based on my previous assumption that that three-person team was town and even with the conventional strategy that a scum would not want to give themselves away by failing the first mission.
A scum SL (or scum anyone) would in theory be reluctant to pass that team.
That comment was made BEFORE the mission failed. See page 67 of the game, and this was as Xatalos was talking about the no votes being scum votes. And that I was townreading xata/rayn at the time and making the assumption at that time the "least town" in sicklucker was mafia. (Posts 1334/1336)
That was not in any way related to post-mission failure. If you read the comment in context on page 67, it should make more sense.
That's why it sucks to answer a question so long after the question was made just after your list, during the phase before the failure reveal, whatever the name of the the phase is. So I reformulate: if sl is mafia in this theory, why do you say at least 2 mafias were against the vote ?
Here is the post in question:
On November 06 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote: Ah got it James. <3
I'd say at least 2. I think maayyyybe one was smart enough to suck it up and pass? Could be SL for all we know.
And that's a really good question to Shockey, Xata.
How can you consider 2 mafia voting against the team AND SL being mafia, so the team being infiltrated, in the same sentence ? OK that's two sentences but I have no idea what the word is for that.
On November 09 2015 06:34 Half the Sky wrote: Rels I mentioned disassociation to Xatalos earlier when he asked me a similar question but in case you think that's too tinfoily it's possible they might have had the room to do that if they could tell from others reads a flawed team would go through.
And no I think I understood what you were trying to ask.
OK basically you're saying that's possible two mafias are voting no because they know two townies that are not on the team will vote YES, so they can disassociate; in this case, you're saying they knew you and Arta would vote YES.
On November 02 2015 23:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hey Rels why do you actually think i am town?
I'm not sure you are. You're attacking people over small logical things and you are thinking about the game as a whole; that is town indicative, but I know you can replicate that as town; at least that what you and several other people claimed before.
(I'm going to assume you actually meant "mafia" by the bolded and that was a mistake)
On November 03 2015 01:32 ShoCkeyy wrote: Rels do you think rayn is scum or not?
He's a townlean right now. That probably won't change for the better until a mission he's part of succeeds.
Why do you think he's a town lean? Do you still want him to not be part of the first team?
Cause he's attacking people over logical things, has hard townreads and is trying to solve the game as a whole. That's his town meta. I'm OK with him being part of the first team.
Regarding your read progression on rayn, how were you sure day 1 that the above was town indicative (and not mafia) and how were you sure enough that "hard townreads" however they were, weren't mafia indicative? It is quite possible IMO for mafia to have hard townreads.
(Now I realise you said meta, but how do you know - and especially for a player of that calibre - he's not breaking meta?)
Post references - 448/496. (pages 5-6 of your filter)
'cause that's how he has always played with me as town, and he didn't the one time I played with him as mafia. Everybody said he scum game is good and that one game was an exception though, that's why I was not sure.
On November 09 2015 06:34 Half the Sky wrote: Rels I mentioned disassociation to Xatalos earlier when he asked me a similar question but in case you think that's too tinfoily it's possible they might have had the room to do that if they could tell from others reads a flawed team would go through.
And no I think I understood what you were trying to ask.
OK basically you're saying that's possible two mafias are voting no because they know two townies that are not on the team will vote YES, so they can disassociate; in this case, you're saying they knew you and Arta would vote YES.
This is correct. I won't speak for Artanis but I thought I was pretty clear where I stood with who and how I'd vote certain teams. I mentioned at least twice this game (not sure if it was before or after the second mission vote tbh) that I was more concerned about being transparent as well.
Yep you were quite explicit about your vote. Not sure Arta was that transparent though. You might want to check that out before suggesting this hypothesis.
On November 09 2015 06:43 Half the Sky wrote: sicklucker are you here?
You said that Superbia lurking was akin to his town meta? Can you name any other games offhand that this would apply? I remember you said sometime in another game (campus mafia) he played a cancerous game but was he inactive in that game or any other you can remember?
His posting as far as I can see - and with Xatalos discouraging his inclusion day 1 - I am pretty sure he's town. Where are you seeing his inactivity as alignment indicative?
Pretty sure he said it was his scum meta. Like 90% sure.
Alright going to sleep now. Have fun with my filter. (= Artanis; that's two times you postponed something to talk the day after. You better explain your thought process the minute you come back to the thread after voting is done.
On November 07 2015 22:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: Artanis i would really like you to swap me with Rels.
I think Rels has a good chance of being scum though. I'd feel more comfortable with about anyone else but Shockeyy and probably sicklucker (though I'm not entirely convinced it's sicklucker over Xata)
IT doesn't even matter if the team gets yay'd or not. It forces sicklucker to give actual reads (as now he is just hiding behind "i will nay everything with Xata/rayn in it") and we'll hear something new from Shockeyy unless he wants that team to go on a mission.
Basically if i am on the mission two of the people i think are mafia have a bullshit reason to downvote it and continue saying nothing on other people.
Hmmmm It seems very risky though. And I don't like the idea of nominating a team I think likely has a spy.
On November 07 2015 22:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On November 07 2015 22:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 07 2015 22:32 Artanis[Xp] wrote: If there is 1 scum in you/xata/sl, and I think there likely is, that means there's 2 scum in Rels/HtS/Shockeyy/Superbia/Kita and I have to select the exact 3 townies from the 5. That seems like a much harder task than selecting the player I have a strong townread on from the mission that failed.
I know but the current concensus seems to be only to talk about people who are nominated atm. You can change your mind, but let's see what those people have to say about the team i proposed.
Okay, fair enough. I have a concert tonight though so my final team will probably be submitted around like 17:45 GMT (+00:00) unless I read enough on mobile to change my mind by the end of it. ##Nominate Artanis[Xp], Rels, kitaman27, Superbia
THAT DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE 1 - unless I missed it, you didn't explain why you thought I was scum 2 - you're nominating a team that you think will fail just because rayn told you ? The only explanation I see is that you're scum trying to pass a failure team, put the blame on me (Haha I told you so!) and on rayn (but rayn told me to do that!).
I have explained why I think you're likely scum. The gist of it comes down to how it seems like you're just throwing shit at everyone and seeing what sticks, and how you seem to be posting just to be posting. That "vote analysis" thing I dissected was an example of that.
As for 2, think harder.
On November 08 2015 18:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: Now for the rest of the game i am going to call HtS bad and make her feel bad. Hope she is scum.
Please Rayn, don't Saying this off the record: I enjoy playing with you and I think you're a great dude, but you need to not allow things to get to you so much man. People can have differing opinions on things and people can be wrong. That doesn't give you the authority to be a dick over it. Hit me up and we'll play a game if you're still feeling shitty.
1 - your scumread on me wasn't displayed in thread, as demonstrated here: + Show Spoiler +
On November 08 2015 04:20 Rels wrote: Arta's read evolution on me:
On November 05 2015 06:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Need to re-eval rels more when I actually have a pc and can compare filters. Moving him back to null/fear read though.
On November 05 2015 22:29 Half the Sky wrote: On the topic of Artanis, I know he said he'd free up more Thursday so I look forward to reading more from him. Can't recall if he has capoeira today though, IRL he has been on a tear with that.
Which means if he drops by in the UK, his first objective will be to dropkick me. Damn it.
Nope, I'm gonna mostly have time for the next four hours. I may drop by to dropkick you anyway though
Oh jesus rels is involved in everything as mafia too x_x
How do you know I'm involved in everything as town as well ? I'm pretty sure we never played together ??
Two things: A) I assume most people have far more involved town games than scumgames. My townread on you came from the fact that you seem very active and involved in almost every discussion. That's generally enough to townread most players. B) I have seen you play town before, though I haven't played with you. I'm not sure which game I was observing anymore but I have done so. Also C) I never called you scum. I said you're back to null because what I thought made you town is apparently not alignment indicative.
OK that makes sense. Security check: can you link me to the game in question ? All my games are in my profile so that should take you like 5 seconds. Im also pretty sure you said you would be reading my filter and evaluating me. Will you do it, or are you pulling a Hts ?
Student Mafia XVI. I was a coach there too.
I did kinda evaluate you, though not as thoroughly yet as I need to. I also want to know why you suddenly decided to re-eval Rayn.
Didn't finish the eval. Rels why did you re evaluate rayn ?
On November 06 2015 18:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm kind of around but at work. Not much to say until we find out if the mission passes or not honestly. If it does, I'm obviously nominating myself with the other three. Don't want to say too much about it before the pass/fail happens to not give any clues to any spy whether they should sabotage or not.
@Rels/HtS your explanations were satisfactory, though I'd still like to hear from HtS what exactly changed her mind on me when she's on a pc.
On November 06 2015 19:03 Artanis[Xp] wrote: [quote] Because I just don't understand the point of the post you made.
Thinking about the different possible scenarios that could happen from that vote pattern, regardless of what I think of the players myself, so it's easier to understand what's going on when we get the result.
I just don't really get why you're going into scenario's where you'll never be able to discern which is which though. Like I said;
being "unlikely" that they'd pass a mission with a mafia in it only to follow it up with the fact that it is possible
You list the possible scenarios, but I'm pretty sure everyone's already figured that if the 3-person mission passes and the 4-person mission fails, it is in fact possible for one of the people in the 3-person mission to still be a spy.
Cause I want it to be clear in my head. And that worked; I discovered that if success-then-fail happened, determining your alignment via behaviour will solve a big part of the game.
Well yes, determining the alignment of the 4th player when there's a 3-success then 4-fail is probably important. It just seems like you went for a pretty.. roundabout way of approaching it?
Eh, whatever, it's not that important I guess. I kinda wanna hear more from you about Rayn and SL, but I think it's best to wait for the results first.
LOL OK said like that it's sound super dumb. (= It has something else to do with voting though: if the team is clean, the scum team is probably shockey / Superbia / kita. If one of them is wrong, you have to be the last scum, since the team is clean and HTS could have voted "no" super easily with what she was saying just before deadline.
How are you ever going to determine if the team is clean though? This is what I didn't get from your analysis.
Well, by playing the game. There is no way to know for sure: we'll have to use behaviour analysis, vote analysis, etc. I like having all the different scenarios in my head, so I can see which one is more likely; like if I cross this analysis with my reads, I'm pretty sure the team is not clean, 'cause that would either mean that kita / shockey / Superbia are the scums or that you are scum and voted for a clean team.
So, your analysis decided that if a 3-player team passes and a 4-player team fails, we need behaviour and vote analysis to determine whether the 4th player is scum or town, and thus decide whether the 3-player team is clean or not.
I think you may be on to something here.
(after a back and forth) You made a post that didn't say anything.
On November 07 2015 18:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: I really think you should pick Rels. You will never get this team yay-voted.
Why do you suddenly think Rels is town?
Because it doesn't make sense that 2 sscum voted nay and Shockeyy is 100% scum.
I can see it making sense. When scum scumread players on the suggested team, they can't yayvote regardless of what they want. Shockey scumread you and xata and rels scumread you and SL. Even if they wanted to yayvote, they couldn't given their reads.
Though I guess I can see how Rels' scumread on both of you came after the team was already nominated, so it was a choice and he didn't really need to turn around and do that. I need to check if he scumread SL before the team was suggested now.
On November 07 2015 08:00 Fidei86 wrote: !!! MISSION FAILED !!! 1 Sabotage action detected.
Day 2 Artanis[Xp]'s Nomination Phase Phase will end in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 7 November 2015.
Alright then we have at least one scum in Xata / rayn / SL. Then I think we have at the very least 2 scums in Xata / rayn / SL / HTS / Arta, maybe 3.
I think that's a reasonable assumption... But rayn is most likely town, so I guess that would mean HTS, Artanis and SL would be scum? Kind of hard to see at least Artanis being scum, HTS maybe. So I'd guess there are 1+ scum hiding in the NO votes as well.
Don't know, I'm kinda re evaluating everything here. The obvious answer to me is "rayn is scum, SL is town, rayn put SL to blame him when the team fails." Then at least HTS or Arta with him, maybe both. But SL is not obvious town either, so I'm not sure. And let's not forget YOU are the one that nominated the failing team. If you're scum, that would mean you broke your meta, but that's possible.
Okay, hold up, timeline: 1. Rels considered SL scummy. 2. Rels started considering Rayn scummy. 3. Rels still considered SL scummy. 4. Mission fails. 5. Rels considers SL obvious town because he's being set up by Rayn. What happened between 3 and 5 that made you think it's MORE likely for SL to be town after the mission fails?
On November 07 2015 22:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: Artanis i would really like you to swap me with Rels.
I think Rels has a good chance of being scum though. I'd feel more comfortable with about anyone else but Shockeyy and probably sicklucker (though I'm not entirely convinced it's sicklucker over Xata)
Rels has a good chance of being scum.
This makes no sense. I'm null - need eval; since then: - Arta commented on two weird things I did from his POV - I voted NO to a failure team and I have a good chance of being scum ?
Artanis. Explain yourself.
Plus, assuming you think I'm scum; you think Xata or SL is scum; who is the third from your POV ? Either HTS, or one of the NO voters ?
2 - I don't get it.
1. The scumread was implicit by the fact that I pressed you on one thing for quite some time. I'd figure you'd notice.
No here is why arta is probably scum: - voting yes to a failure team while not in said failure team - his read on me is super convenient and is based on nothing strong - he nominated a team without me; rayn tells him to nominate me; he argues that he thinks I am scum, then he nominates me anyway
On November 09 2015 06:57 Half the Sky wrote: So both of you are scumreading each other for dodging questions? Am I reading that right? I think I can see what Artanis is doing with #2 tbh, but seeing people hesistant to show all their cards to a potential scumread is not something I consider scum indicative.
On November 09 2015 08:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote: So yeah, I suggested a team I didn't actually want to see who was going to vote yes on it, gauge responses and all that. I figure after the first mission fails we want to gather some more information anyway. Like Rayn said, there'd be limited information on submitting a team with me/him/Superbia/Kitaman as someone like sicklucker would have an excuse to vote no without really backing it up. Now, we get to hear justifications for things.
On November 09 2015 07:01 Rels wrote: No here is why arta is probably scum: - voting yes to a failure team while not in said failure team - his read on me is super convenient and is based on nothing strong - he nominated a team without me; rayn tells him to nominate me; he argues that he thinks I am scum, then he nominates me anyway
-Explained my reasoning already. Doesn't make me scum. -My reasoning is plain to see and I pushed you on it. -Explained this just now.
Well you can have all the reasoning in the world, you're still scum 'cause your reasonning sucks (= you think I'm scum for weak reasons. It's especially weird that you don't seem to push suspicions on HTS that much, which if you're town is 99% scum, the 1% being "2 scums voted NO" or "2 scums were on the first team". Your reasoning for nominating the team was "OK I'll follow rayn so I don't have to explain anything".
Not much time to play today; I'll restate that I'll vote NO to any team containing either HTS or Arta. My prefered setup would countain 3 from the NO voters and 1 from the failed team.
On November 09 2015 22:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Hold on I just realized one of HtS/Rels/Shockeyy is always town. I'm not sure why I didn't realize that before.
On November 09 2015 23:23 Xatalos wrote: You lost me Artanis >.>
And HTS.... There's just no basis for your push on me. You say I "TMI"d rayn when the team failed, but if you didn't miss it, I townread him pretty heavily from like the latter part of the first cycle already. Why would I drop the townread over SL after the failure? Granted, rayn is a bit more likely scum now, but I still don't think that's the case, and SL has looked worse after the failure IMO. By that same logic, rayn also still townreads me........
Mission 1 failed. It was explicitly stated there was one sabotage by the moderator. There HAS to be ( (at least, but most likely) one scum between you/rayn/SL. If you are town, and you know you are town, and especially on the back of a heavy townread on rayn, the bolded doesn't make any sense >_<
I don't understand how it doesn't make any sense. He's saying he wouldn't drop the townread on rayn over SL. Do I misunderstand his sentence ?
On November 09 2015 22:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Hold on I just realized one of HtS/Rels/Shockeyy is always town. I'm not sure why I didn't realize that before.
On November 09 2015 21:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: So like, Xatalos is stubbornly trying to push a team that has both me and him in it, when at least half of the people in the game think one of us might be scum.
HtS doesn't even read the game (or apparently any game she has ever played) so i don't see any reason i should pay any attention to what she posts.
Shockeyy hasn't made a single logical conslusion in this game, and Artanis now for some reason thinks Xatalos is mafia instead of sicklucker because of what Shockeyy says.
sicklucker doesn't wanna say yes to any team he doesn't pick himself, doesn't scumhunt and just hides behind his heuristic.
Superbia gave up a long time ago on this game.
So yeah, i am just gonna vote yes to any team that gets picked and/or wait for SL to present his team and if the team is all town we win -- or if the team fails i am gonna blame the dude who picked the team. Because that's the correct play, right sicklucker?
Basically this game cannot possibly go anywhere so i don't really see any reason why i should give any fucks rn.
Tbh I think this nomination is probably the only one where we have a chance anymore.... But I guess quite a few scumread you now so I can understand why it seems difficult. Then should we just try voting for a team or something?
On November 10 2015 02:53 Half the Sky wrote: Kita could you please answer why you think SL's erratic posting is alignment indicative? I asked a question of you sometime back....ehh let me find it.
His strategy is essentially to accept any team that includes himself and attack any player that attacks him. I feel this is alignment indicative because it's exactly how I played as spy in resistance 2.
On November 03 2015 22:20 sicklucker wrote: yo xataloser is a bad guy
Why?
he failed my omgus test where I omgus people who put doubt on my not giving a fuck.
I call it plan no give a fuck
On November 03 2015 22:29 sicklucker wrote: No but I figured scum would go out of there way to not let me get away with being a shitty player
On November 03 2015 22:36 sicklucker wrote: Note that xata is annoyed trying to convince me otherwise and backtracked later with reasons to townread me. He didnt bring this reason up when he complained to rayn
On November 04 2015 19:44 sicklucker wrote: Like do you want me to summarize my filter for you. Ive given my plan. gonna veto any xatalos unless its like me and rayn then ill reread his shit. Taking it day by day. playing the long and underwhelming game
On November 05 2015 09:43 sicklucker wrote: like if xata picks the team i want (he did kinda) that proves to me i can probably trust him
He scum reads Xata, explains why, and states that he would reject any team with Xata unless SL is included. Whether or not your scum read brings you along on a mission set up for failure should not influence your read on that player.
Xata + X + Y = Fail because Xata is scum Xata + X + SL = Pass because ????
He later explains that he "didnt think a scum xata would have the balls". He didn't have the balls to bring along a townie? As opposed to bring along some other random townie? Huh?
Next, he calls super scum because super stated that the Xat/rayn/SL team would get rejected and that SL should have been replaced by Artanis. He explains that super wanted to reject the all town team, even though he didn't think Xat was mafia at the time. He then explains that the all town team in reference was rayn/SL/artanis. This doesn't make sense either because the post SL attacked super for stated that he wanted SL replaced by artanis.
On November 09 2015 02:28 sicklucker wrote: xata if your the town in rayn/you your literally losing town the game thinking the way you do. People like shockey/rels who voted no on a mission that failed are not going to be scum very often. you need to adjust your reads as scum bro
Next he uses this explanation to state that shockeyy and rels are town. Yet his scum reads include myself and super, also no voters. He is using the same argument to state that certain players are town, yet ignores his own argument in regards to others. He buddies the players that town read him and attack the players the scum read him.
Right now the policy he is pushing is to fail every team until it is his turn to nominate himself.
On November 10 2015 05:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: town. i don't really bother explaining anything rn, especially to people who think people who do scummy things are townie. My time is better spent watching a movie.
I think you're wrong, but good choice not putting him on the team.
On November 09 2015 23:23 Xatalos wrote: You lost me Artanis >.>
And HTS.... There's just no basis for your push on me. You say I "TMI"d rayn when the team failed, but if you didn't miss it, I townread him pretty heavily from like the latter part of the first cycle already. Why would I drop the townread over SL after the failure? Granted, rayn is a bit more likely scum now, but I still don't think that's the case, and SL has looked worse after the failure IMO. By that same logic, rayn also still townreads me........
Mission 1 failed. It was explicitly stated there was one sabotage by the moderator. There HAS to be ( (at least, but most likely) one scum between you/rayn/SL. If you are town, and you know you are town, and especially on the back of a heavy townread on rayn, the bolded doesn't make any sense >_<
I don't understand how it doesn't make any sense. He's saying he wouldn't drop the townread on rayn over SL. Do I misunderstand his sentence ?
If he meant he would drop the townread on rayn over sicklucker then I completely misunderstood the sentence.
In any case, the contention sicklucker, Artanis (to a different degree if you read his latest posts) and myself are raising is not the exact townread, not THAT he is or isn't townreading rayn or sicklucker.
It's HOW that read came about and more specifically the reactions to the mention of sicklucker in the discussion. There was practically zero scepticism demonstrated AFTER the failure. If you look at the questions that people are throwing at Xatalos (particularly Artanis) you can see the cracks in his stances.
I'd quote it atm, but I'm not at a pc. :/
That's true he feels non commital. But why is this sentence making no sense? He's saying he townread rayn and scumread SL. The fact that he is being pushed by Arta + you, when there is 99% mafia between you and XX*% you are both scum is also town indicative. * a big number
On November 09 2015 23:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##Nominate: raynpelikoneet, kitaman, Rels, Superbia
I would vote YES to that right now. I would prefer Shockey instead of Superbia though.
Wouldn't shoot this down, but if Vivax becomes readable as town in the next 1-2 hours (which he said he'd engage) I'd prefer keeping the noms as is.
I don't think you've played with him Rels but when he really puts his mind to the game (reference Gaiden when he went all out against the scumteam) he's pretty damned readable as town.
I don't see how he would become obvious town in 2 hours. Maybe I'll be amazed.
On November 10 2015 06:46 Vivax wrote: I think rayn and shockey are both town. Xata and SL must not be on the mission. That's good so far, they both look craptastic. I'm not sure who of them more with my current knowledge. I just noticed SL posting that if I don't rat him out we can be friends, something an actual mafioso would probably say.
On November 10 2015 05:53 Rels wrote: rayn though: please consider switching Superbia to shockey unless Vivax amazes everybody. He's the only NO voter I'm doubtful about.
Rels looks good too just for saying this cause knowing I'm town and thinking Shockey is too, I just see no point for a spy to tell rayn to swap out a town for another town (unless speculative wifom planting which is something I don't see here).
I'm vigilant about kita as he's one of the people I can get really paranoid about. I have a history of reading him correctly too so until I get to do that and given that his first posts in the game didn't really scream town to me, I'd prefer to not have him on a mission for now.
On November 09 2015 07:01 Rels wrote: No here is why arta is probably scum: - voting yes to a failure team while not in said failure team - his read on me is super convenient and is based on nothing strong - he nominated a team without me; rayn tells him to nominate me; he argues that he thinks I am scum, then he nominates me anyway
I wanted to ask you about this: I don't think the first two reasons are really good. Or like if you think they are then based on (2) you should probably be scum for your case at the start of the game. (1) is non-alignment indicative in itself. (3) is the most important thing i wanted to ask you about:
Why do you think it's scum indicative for Artanis to nominate you instead of me when i ask? Like in your world you should think you are town, right? Now you must at least entertain a possibility that i am mafia based on mission 1. So in your opinion Artanis is switching a "not sure town" to "sure town". Why does he do that as scum? There is absolutely zero reason he would do that so that he could blame you if the mission fails because both me and kitaman already read you as town. I don't understand how you come to the conclusion that's alignment indicative -- not to even mention scummy.
First, I'll explain my thinking, but I'll expect you to explain your Arta townread in return.
Second, my read on you is really different from his read on me. I suspected you for something logical; and rescinded it when proven wrong. Artanis is not doing that; his vaguely saying "Rels seems to be posting without a direction", quotes two posts that apparently prove it, and then does nothing with it. It really looks like he decided I will be his scumread, then went ahead and decided why.
Third, him nominating a team YOU proposed over what he thinks is scum indicative. You gave him the excuse of not thinking about anything and just roll out with it. He explains it with "Oh but I was doing a reaction test"; reaction test that didn't give him any result.
About the "sure town" vs "maybe town" stuff, I think mafia!Arta doesn't care which townie goes with him, so that's NAI.
To expand from town vs scum mentality, he threw away his nomination chance, when the next leader is you that he townreads, so that might be OK from his POV; but the next three are Shockey (a potential scum from his POV), me (a scumread) and SL (who said he would include me, a scumread, in his team). Him throwing his team away for a "reaction test" means he ditched his one of two chances to have a team he agrees with. If he's town, this doesn't make sense. If he's scum, he's either with you or SL; you because he wouldn't care about his team since you can probably get a team approved with yourself in it, or SL who has the last vote. I would expect him to convince people to vote NO today if he's scum with SL.
On November 09 2015 23:23 Xatalos wrote: You lost me Artanis >.>
And HTS.... There's just no basis for your push on me. You say I "TMI"d rayn when the team failed, but if you didn't miss it, I townread him pretty heavily from like the latter part of the first cycle already. Why would I drop the townread over SL after the failure? Granted, rayn is a bit more likely scum now, but I still don't think that's the case, and SL has looked worse after the failure IMO. By that same logic, rayn also still townreads me........
Mission 1 failed. It was explicitly stated there was one sabotage by the moderator. There HAS to be ( (at least, but most likely) one scum between you/rayn/SL. If you are town, and you know you are town, and especially on the back of a heavy townread on rayn, the bolded doesn't make any sense >_<
I don't understand how it doesn't make any sense. He's saying he wouldn't drop the townread on rayn over SL. Do I misunderstand his sentence ?
If he meant he would drop the townread on rayn over sicklucker then I completely misunderstood the sentence.
In any case, the contention sicklucker, Artanis (to a different degree if you read his latest posts) and myself are raising is not the exact townread, not THAT he is or isn't townreading rayn or sicklucker.
It's HOW that read came about and more specifically the reactions to the mention of sicklucker in the discussion. There was practically zero scepticism demonstrated AFTER the failure. If you look at the questions that people are throwing at Xatalos (particularly Artanis) you can see the cracks in his stances.
I'd quote it atm, but I'm not at a pc. :/
That's true he feels non commital. But why is this sentence making no sense? He's saying he townread rayn and scumread SL. The fact that he is being pushed by Arta + you, when there is 99% mafia between you and XX*% you are both scum is also town indicative. * a big number
The bolded is not necessarily conclusive. If scum know one of their teammates (and it doesn't matter who - all three people on the failed mission voted themselves on) was on the mission, it's easy to dissociate from that because they'd know it'd fail and it's not hard to see how others are reading people. I think I explained that to you before.
It's possible and we can't fully eliminate the fact that 2 scummers voted no.
As for the sentence "not making sense" I already answered that in the first paragraph. If I understood it correctly however that he would drop the townread on (over???) SL then it is impossible for him to townread BOTH rayn and sicklucker. I presented the alternative in my first paragraph if I misunderstood.
I thought about this and I don't agree. It makes a lot of sense to bus in this setup if two scums can be on two sides of townies. But you and Arta already has very little chance to be accepted in a team, and rayn has more chance to be accepted than Xata; in this position, there is no scum motivation for scum!HTS or scum!Arta to attack scum!Xata, when you three are already outsiders. I think rayn made this exact point like three days ago. I didn't agree at the time, but now I know what he meant by "scums will not necessarily bus".
I don't understand what you don't understand. He's saying he townread both rayn and SL before the vote; and he dropped the SL townread after the team failure. He didn't drop the rayn townread. I understand the "Xata is too sure of rayn" argument; but I'm not seeying the "it doesn't make sense" part.
It bothers me that he's not fighting for this team to be downvoted. If this team is clean and passes, the game is over for scums; we take the same team mission 3, and the same team + 1 mission 4. So it either means you are scum with him, or I'm wrong on HTS and kita / Superbia is scum with him. Of course he could be playing the WIFOM card and praying really hard too, but that is a losing move.
On November 10 2015 05:55 Half the Sky wrote: It's possible and we can't fully eliminate the fact that 2 scummers voted no.
Aside from anything else, do you think town!HtS says this when she thinks Xatalos is more likely to be mafia than sicklucker is?
I think it's stupid, especially since she seems to think Arta is scum at this point I think. She townreads me, kita, shockey, and has suspicions but maybe town on Superbia, I don't know why she's saying that.
On November 10 2015 22:49 Rels wrote: Xata, why are you suspicious of me ? Why are you suspicious of kita ?
The NO votes look good for you two, it's just not on the level of a confident townread. Kita for being so vague and non-committal throughout the game, and you because your recent scumgames looked pretty similar to this game too (very active and engaged..).
Now that I think about it, though, scum HTS would have had no good reason to put scum Kita into the first team.... So that gives kita a bit more credibility at least.
So is kita scum or not ? If yes can you expand on him being vague ? Your reason for scumreading me are bad. Is that it ?
On November 09 2015 07:33 ShoCkeyy wrote: Reason why I say that is because I suggested this team a while back. Not voting yes will look bad on my end anyways
If you wanted the team to pass, why did you include that tid bit about how you would have looked bad by rejecting at the end?
Uhhhhh I actually did????? That's the fucking problem. None of you read anything lol
I thought you just said you weren't sure the team was going to pass at deadline ? It's hard to follow your thought process.
On November 11 2015 08:03 Fidei86 wrote: Day 2 raynpelikoneet's Nomination (raynpelikoneet, kitaman, Rels, Vivax) Vote Result
Half the Sky - YES Xatalos - YES Artanis[Xp] - NO raynpelikoneet - YES ShoCkeyy - YES Rels - YES sicklucker - NO kitaman27 - YES Vivax - YES
MISSION IS APPROVED
raynpelikoneet, kitaman, Rels and Vivax will be embarking on Mission 2 Mission will be completed in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 11 November 2015.
Alright so either the game is won, or the team is infected. Let's go with the infiltrated theory since we won in the other case anyway. I know why SL voted NO, but I think Arta didn't scumread anyone before deadline. I need to check that.
On November 11 2015 09:48 sicklucker wrote: rels, hts, shockey how did you guys all vote there...
Cause I thought it was a clean team. Still could be the case and we won already ... the fact that there are only two NO votes makes this unlikely though.
On November 11 2015 10:13 Half the Sky wrote: I accepted the fact that Rels could be town after a fresh (and attempt at being unbiased after seeing hsi filter), but upon seeing these votes, I very well could have been wrong - the fact that Artanis voted this team down and Rels upvoted it....IDK. My first thought - if this team fails and it likely will - is that the Rels/Artanis interaction is more likely that the former of the two is more likely scum. (I'm thinking the most likely scum in this group is between Rels/Vivax.)
On November 10 2015 22:49 Rels wrote: Xata, why are you suspicious of me ? Why are you suspicious of kita ?
The NO votes look good for you two, it's just not on the level of a confident townread. Kita for being so vague and non-committal throughout the game, and you because your recent scumgames looked pretty similar to this game too (very active and engaged..).
Now that I think about it, though, scum HTS would have had no good reason to put scum Kita into the first team.... So that gives kita a bit more credibility at least.
So is kita scum or not ? If yes can you expand on him being vague ? Your reason for scumreading me are bad. Is that it ?
On November 10 2015 23:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm actually not that sure on you anymore because as I mentioned earlier for some reason I had 3 scumreads outside the initial 3 and I think HtS is very likely scum. Shockeyy also seems likely to be scum, though his brash I don't really care about anything attitude does make me wonder.
[...]
Regarding the vote: I'm toying with the idea of voting yay for it. Reasons being that so many people already indicated they may vote yay that if there's a scum on the mission, it's probably going to get the go ahead anyway and the only chance it doesn't get accepted is if it's actually pure.
Here Arta: - says he's not suspicious of me anymore - says he will vote YES But in the end, after mostly everyone says they will vote YES, he ends up voting NO. Why ? It's not logical from his reads. One explication could be that he's scum, he knows the team is infected, and he wanted to be on the right side of the votes for towncred. For the Xata / rayn / SL team he had to vote YES 'cause it wasn't obvious if it was going to pass or not without his vote; for this team, he could vote NO, have the team go and get the town cred. I'm still going with the theory that the team is infiltrated, since if it's clean we won anyway.
So the team is either: Arta / rayn / XXX (not HTS, they're never scums together) or Arta / Xata / Vivax (or Kita) I think it makes HTS town actually whatever the case is actually ... at least if the team fails.
I suppose Arta / rayn / Xata makes some sense too. The relations between the three are super weird: - Xata and Arta hard townreads each other - Arta and rayn are super buddies that don't re evaluate on each other - Arta and Xata have very little interaction. So the plan would be to put two scums in the first team, so one of them exits with the universal townread, can make the second team fail; and now the plan is to put the third scum in the third team.
Will have to reread Kita in case of failure, but assuming it confirms my townread on him, I think the team have to be one of this: Arta / rayn / Vivax Arta / rayn / Xata Arta / Xata / Vivax Basically, just don't ever pick those four players and we're OK. I'm too lazy to do any reread right now since we could also have won already p: will do that tomorrow. See you later folks for the result!
On November 12 2015 03:15 Fidei86 wrote: After discussion between myself and Tictock in the Host QT, and also consultation with Blazinghand, I have decided to issue a second warning to raynpelikoneet for this post. The effect of a second warning (the first warning being here) is a modkill/auto-replace, which is effective immediately.
I will begin searching for a replacement immediately. Until one is found, raynpelikoneet's slot will be eligible to go on missions, and will deemed to vote YES on all proposed missions. If his slot has the spy alignment, it will be deemed to attempt to sabotage any mission on which it is placed. His slot will be skipped for the purpose of team submission.
The OP for this game makes clear that all players are obliged to be civil and corteous to each other. The hosts recognise that Mafia/Resistance can give rise to strong emotions. However, there is a large and important difference between criticising someone's play or their decision making, and personal attacks designed only to belittle or demean. The former happens all the time, but the second will not be tolerated.
If anyone has any concerns about this action, or any further rules questions arising please contact me immediately, copying Tictock and Blazinghand.
Wow rayn is probably mod-confirmed town then. I don't think scum would cross the line after being warned.
On November 12 2015 03:25 Vivax wrote: Do you really think I can be spy with Xata, Rels? After what superbia did to him right at the start of D1?
For now we can just chill and wait for the outcome. All this speculation pre-result is even too tinfoil for me.
Maybe. I don't think it's unlikely for scums to bus each other; barring some extreme case like rayn / HTS and rayn / shockey, who cannot be scums together I feel.
On November 10 2015 23:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm actually not that sure on you anymore because as I mentioned earlier for some reason I had 3 scumreads outside the initial 3 and I think HtS is very likely scum. Shockeyy also seems likely to be scum, though his brash I don't really care about anything attitude does make me wonder.
[...]
Regarding the vote: I'm toying with the idea of voting yay for it. Reasons being that so many people already indicated they may vote yay that if there's a scum on the mission, it's probably going to get the go ahead anyway and the only chance it doesn't get accepted is if it's actually pure.
Here Arta: - says he's not suspicious of me anymore - says he will vote YES But in the end, after mostly everyone says they will vote YES, he ends up voting NO. Why ? It's not logical from his reads. One explication could be that he's scum, he knows the team is infected, and he wanted to be on the right side of the votes for towncred. For the Xata / rayn / SL team he had to vote YES 'cause it wasn't obvious if it was going to pass or not without his vote; for this team, he could vote NO, have the team go and get the town cred. I'm still going with the theory that the team is infiltrated, since if it's clean we won anyway.
"Not that sure" (what he said) and "not suspicious" (what you said) are two different things. At best, someone saying "I'm not sure on you" means they have at best a null on you.
And he said he was toying with it, not that he'd commit. Two different things. He already implied (bolded) what the count would be. If Artanis is scum it's sure not for that.
So either he's going against his reads (what I think), or he's non commital (something that you scumread Xata for). Which is it ?
On November 12 2015 20:39 sicklucker wrote: Hey rels alot has changed everyone thinks your scum how do you feel about that
Man you posted this exact post in the last game (Newbie XVI) where you were town; in that game, that post made me feel you were scum because you had this exact post in the previous game (Drams) where you were scum. I have the feeling you posted this just to show me "look I'm town, you made that mistake last game where you thought I was scum". Who is everyone ? Only counting Arta HTS and you where I am. I'm catching up though, did anyone else scumread me ?
On November 12 2015 02:37 Rels wrote: So the team is either: Arta / rayn / XXX (not HTS, they're never scums together) or Arta / Xata / Vivax (or Kita) I think it makes HTS town actually whatever the case is actually ... at least if the team fails.
you cant possibly think the only one to vote no is scum
Yes I can. More than that; I think it's scum indicative IF the consensus if the team will pass whatever someone's vote is AND the vote doen't match up with the read previous to the vote. Now Arta wasn't as clear cut as I thought, but only because he was super non commital. I really don't like how you didn't say much before the vote deadline when the consensus was the team will pass; and now you're like "WHAT GUYS WHY DID YOU ALL VOTE YES". If you were that sure the team would fail, you would have fought BEFORE the vote.
On November 02 2015 17:29 Rels wrote: Weird that it took kita 1 hour to answer this question, which was asked to him only a few minutes after his opening post.
I think it is more likely a town player would jump on something like this, than a mafia player trying to paint me as suspicious for something so innocent.
On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia.
3. Superbia uses this to make Xatalos say something he didn't: that being scum isn't nightmarish
On November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote: So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that?
Conclusion That is the problem with Superbia's early play; twisting Xatalos' words to something he didn't mean. Now he turned that read around to townread Xatalos, and rayn is claiming it's not suspicous, which might be right. But this word-twisting stuff is scum indicative.
Suggests he is looking into superbia's motivations and is bothered by contradictions.
On November 03 2015 01:24 Rels wrote: Man EVERYBODY was up my ass when I was attacking Superbia; but I do one formal post resuming it, and nobody comments on it.
Suggests that he cares about pushing things that he finds suspicious, rather than pumping out content for the sake of looking good.
On November 03 2015 18:29 Rels wrote: On the other hand, I have no idea why the fuck kitaman would know anything from my scum play. Where did he say that ?
He brings this up several times after the day one events. Seems like honest concern for a player who he already shared town reads about.
On November 04 2015 01:29 Rels wrote: Yes of course it's a dumb thing to do. I think you should have not say anything and waited to see what rayn would have done tomorrow though.
Seems like a reasonable post from someone suspicious of rayn.
On November 04 2015 01:38 Rels wrote: Shockey, I can't see any scum motivation to play the way he does; having odd reads that completely differs from the thread sentiment, and defending them to the point of getting scumread for it.
Passes on a very easy scum read to make with Shockeyy. Contrarian views usually point to townie.
On November 05 2015 07:17 Rels wrote: Xatalos' average filter length per game
Average page / phase as town: 10.19 Average page / phase as mafia: 2.51
This game: 11 pages in almost a phase
OK I think it's pretty clear. p:
Makes a decent effort post that enhances the credibility of a player who he probably would want to oppose from a scum standpoint at this point in the game, unless they are buddies.
On November 06 2015 15:05 sicklucker wrote: Im sure this mission passes but if rayn and xata are putting me up as the fall guy as thread sentiment seems they better be prepared for the massive amount of shit that will transpire
You have any post from them saying that ? Cause I had the same feeling, but from HTS:
On November 06 2015 08:24 Half the Sky wrote: Independent of the vote, there's plenty to suggest Xatalos/rayn are town, so the main doubt was sicklucker. If the mission is sabotaged, it makes it pretty obvious where it'd be but then that also circles to the point raised as to why the next team is selected right away.
On November 06 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote: Ah got it James. <3
I'd say at least 2. I think maayyyybe one was smart enough to suck it up and pass? Could be SL for all we know.
And that's a really good question to Shockey, Xata.
She justified this by saying "there's plenty to suggest Xatalos/rayn are town". She explained that for rayn, but when I made my filter length analysis on Xata she posted this:
On November 05 2015 07:28 Half the Sky wrote: I have no idea (still on mobile) who is trying to meta Xatalos but whoever is, the most efficient/effective way is how detailed vs shallow his reads are on people. Not filter length. There have been several cases made against scum Xatalos in Carol and Assassination Mafia on the quality of his reads.
I'm not saying he's scum but just saying that's how you should meta him.
On November 05 2015 07:28 Half the Sky wrote: I have no idea (still on mobile) who is trying to meta Xatalos but whoever is, the most efficient/effective way is how detailed vs shallow his reads are on people. Not filter length. There have been several cases made against scum Xatalos in Carol and Assassination Mafia on the quality of his reads.
I'm not saying he's scum but just saying that's how you should meta him.
suuuuuuuure you don't know =D do your own meta case if you want, mine has convinced me that guy is town
Since then, she doesn't do any analysis on Xata, but somehow he's so confirmed town that you have to be the scum if the mission fail. Actually, let me check her read progression.
On November 02 2015 23:29 Xatalos wrote: What's your read on me btw, HTS? Would be nice to hear your reads on every player before the team suggestion really.
Right now? nullish - I want to look a little more closely at any conclusions you make on people and how you get there before I'm a little more comfortable. At least I'll know I'll be getting to that sooner.
Actually l'll take this a bit further:
Town/Resistance: rayn Sueprbia (will review the TMI argument)
On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance.
...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push.
Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far.
Yeah I was town and got shot eventually. Why does that make me townie?
On November 02 2015 20:59 Xatalos wrote:
On November 02 2015 20:56 Superbia wrote:
On November 02 2015 20:55 Xatalos wrote:
On November 02 2015 20:52 Superbia wrote:
On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance.
...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push.
Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far.
Yeah I was town and got shot eventually. Why does that make me townie?
Your posting style and activity level seems similar to that game. Mind you that I've read/skimmed maybe 7-8 pages, so I'm not confident enough to give you a lot of townie-points.
Okay, that makes sense.
Alright, these questions are quite town. I know Rels argued TMI from Superbia. So at least I know to flag that argument reviewing Rels later...
The only question I'd pose to Superbia is asking him how he knows Xata isn't breaking meta but maybe he hasn't reached that point yet.
I'm not going to meta read Xata, largely because I'd be biased on that - the only games I've ever had with Xata (Carol and Assassination, both large normal) he's been scum and I've been town. I've never played with town Xatalos.
On November 03 2015 00:46 Half the Sky wrote: I'm looking at a three-hour delay for my flight home. Fuck this weather.
That is going to put me close to deadline, so I am going to keep my primary submission to what it is now, and then have an alternate submission up ASAP so you people can discuss it before and then I will state what I'm going to do before I get on the plane. If I had to pull myself off the team, it'd be right now - Xata/rayn/Superbia.
I'm feeling better about Xata but not as good as with Super/rayn and I don't believe sicklucker and Artanis will bleed town for me in time for deadline or even before I leave Berlin, if I even do.
Also I don't feel Rels' TMI argument on superbia is valid, but will double check the rest of his followup.
On November 04 2015 21:29 Half the Sky wrote: Work is burying me today (if I'm lucky I'll finish around 2100 today) so quick comments for now.
1 Above team is fine by me. Would vote yes. No issues with any of Xata's explanations on his team selection.
2 I will vote down any team with Rels on it (and almost certainly will be ignoring him as mafia onwards until something to the contrary jumps at me) assuming we are sticking to the conventional approach of nailing the first mission with three town.
3 I passed/scrapped my team to buy more time.
4 Artanis I think you need to re-read my filter. Unless I'm misunderstanding, you had a fear read on me before, not the other way around. my stance on your alignment is null because your RL situation is NAI and I needed more content to re-evaluate you. Seeing as you've posted more content, I'll re-evaluate after work.
5 Regarding the comments on defensiveness my argument is that for someone normally considered a very good town player Rels is scum reading me for things that do not make me Mafia. The basis for his position is actually pretty poor IMO with the caveat he has never played the game so this could explain (if somehow he's actually town) why he's seeing some things the way he is.
No issue with Xata's explanations on the choice of the team
On November 05 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote: Aiming for until 12:30am or so... (another 45m) so if anyone wants to talk, please do.
You don't need give details or anything, but where would you everyone one through nine in terms of trustworthiness?
With nine being most trustworthy
kitaman27 6 ShoCkeyy 2 at most Rels - um, zero? Artanis[Xp] 7-8 Xatalos 7 Superbia 6 raynpelikoneet - 8-9 sicklucker 5 at most (although I'm atm trying to evaluate him on what he does have...)
I am aware that Rels, you, Superbia have pretty damned capable scum games so there is some caution with some of the ratings.
On November 06 2015 07:45 Half the Sky wrote: Shockey is townreading Superbia, Rels, Artanis and Kita, scumreads on rayn and Xatalos.
Null on everyone else. Probably means I don't have to worry about a spy Xatalos fooling us all, with the third scum being Superbia/Kita, Artanis/sicklucker per this association is a longshot.
This also means though I'm wrong on a townread though, and I'm now not sure whom without filter diving.
It's one of Superbia or Kita, Rels is either defending scum Kita or disassociating from Superbia.
If I had to tinfoil Kita, the former makes sense considering the early case on Xatalos. But now we have some queries on Rels. Hmmmm.
The problem is, if sicklucker is mafia, and Rels is using reverse psychology on us, then this whole thing is blown out of the water. But Ockham's razor indicates SL is town, so I think that's what I'm going to hold for now, unless something else indicates otherwise.
Random thoughts. Still on mobile, can't filter dive too easily.
On November 06 2015 08:24 Half the Sky wrote: Independent of the vote, there's plenty to suggest Xatalos/rayn are town, so the main doubt was sicklucker. If the mission is sabotaged, it makes it pretty obvious where it'd be but then that also circles to the point raised as to why the next team is selected right away.
Xata is confirmed town so SL will be obvious scum if the mission fail
Somehow Xata went from "I think he's town" to "he's so conf town SL will be scum if the missions fails". Especially, she said an easy way to confirm Xata would be to make a meta analysis on how shallow his reads are; she didn't do it, but Xata is somehow confirmed town in her mind.
On November 06 2015 06:44 Rels wrote: Like I'm thinking about this game all the time, trying to solve it. I just love that feeling of thinking about something new that make sense
lol seems genuine. Maybe I fall for things like these too easy :p
On November 06 2015 08:00 Tictock wrote: Day 1 Xatalos Nomination (Xatalos, rayn, sicklucker) Vote Result
Half the Sky - YES Xatalos - YES Artanis[Xp] - YES raynpelikoneet - YES ShoCkeyy - NO Rels - NO sicklucker - YES kitaman27 - NO Superbia - NO
MISSION IS APPROVED
Xatalos, raynpelikoneet, and sicklucker will be embarking on Mission 1 Mission will be completed in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 6 November 2015.
Suuuuper interesting! With such a close vote, we'll have a lot of infos depending on how the team does. Let's see.
If the team pass there are two solutions: - it's a clean team; then there have to be 2 mafias in Shockey / kita / Superbia. Maybe 3, but it's possible one mafia went for the towncred instead if he thought the team would pass even if he voted no; since in this case, he's not on the team, it would be HTS or Arta. Given how HTS posted about her opinions on the vote, I don't see her voting "yes" in that situation when she had the perfect opportunity to vote "no" to a clean team. So if one mafia voted "yes" to a clean team, it would be Arta. - there is 1 (or more) scum in the team but he didn't make the mission failed: unlikely. The goal of the game is to win three missions for both team; exchanging town cred for 1 failure out of 3 doesn't seem to be worth it. It that happens, I think it makes Artanis town, since the plan would be to make Arta pick the same team + himself, fail the mission, and put the blame on him. So if the team passes the mission, then fails the next with SL / rayn / Xata / Arta, it probably means Arta's alignment will be determinent to solving the game; it's either Arta being mafia going for the towncred; or Arta being town on which mafia are trying to put the blame. Figuring this out in this case will be crucial. If the team passes the mission, then passes the next with SL / rayn / Xata / Arta, there are all town and the game is won. That would be cool. (=
If the team fails: There is one confirmed mafia in Xata / rayn / SL, maybe 2. There has to be at least 2 mafias in Xata / rayn / SL / HTS / Arta, probably 3 since, as said above, the towncred lost by voting a failure team is more than compensated by the 1 win out of 3 needed. That doesn't apply if one scum thought the team would pass even if he voted "no" though.
That's where I'm at. Not going further until tomorrow.
Suggests genuine excitement with an attempt to solve things.
On November 12 2015 02:43 Rels wrote: I'm too lazy to do any reread right now since we could also have won already p:
Heh I was thinking the same thing.
Other random tidbits -Frequently changes his reads at different points of the game, which suggests he is considering new information, rather than sticking to tunnels -Picks a battle with rayn early on who is widely viewed as town. Has the opportunity to tunnel rayn, yet considers the alternative at most spots. -Posts are mostly logical without baseless assumptions
He does buddy me a ton this game, but I sure am a sucker for buddying. XD
Based on this assumption, it would mean that Vivax is mafia. I'll need to re-read the thread tomorrow from that perspective to make sure I haven't slipped up anywhere and to see if it leads to any other relationships.
I agree with everything EXCEPT the first one: kita is town. That's what I lean for atm but I want to reread your filter before commiting to that line of thoughts.
On November 12 2015 18:54 sicklucker wrote: tbh rels looks really town when hes mafia. What he does do as mafia is make up bullshit to suit his needs. I think hes very good as mafia. Hes a shit town player tho but I havent seen that shit townplay this game tbh
Before the fail mission: "yeah Rels is super right, for example in suggesting I was the fall guy in the first mission: he should be town". After the fail mission: "oh Rels is too right to be town this game, he's not that good". This is not an explanation. Why are you townreading HTS ? For a dumbtell you thought couldn't come from scum right ? Anything else ?
cool. Who were the "everyone" scumreading me you were talking about ? Cause I really feel like you're trying to create an atmosphere where Shockey would think "Oh shit can't include Rels since everybody scumreads him"
On November 12 2015 20:58 sicklucker wrote: Rels you rejected my town circle. me/shockey and you all had noms coming up. why not wait for them?
'cause I thought rayn was town and you were more likely scum than Xata. After the vote your NO vote looked townie, but the way you're acting right now is super scummy. WHAT YOU ARE SAYING MAKES NO SENSE BECAUSE: The only difference waiting would have made would be switch Superbia for Shockey. ATM I thought the team was very likely to be HTS / Arta / you or Xata. So what you are accusing me of doing is not logical.
On November 12 2015 20:58 Rels wrote: cool. Who were the "everyone" scumreading me you were talking about ? Cause I really feel like you're trying to create an atmosphere where Shockey would think "Oh shit can't include Rels since everybody scumreads him"
no im not making that up its literately everyone thats playing the game. me/art/hts
This games weird because half the people are afk or subs
On November 12 2015 21:02 sicklucker wrote: Ok rels this is probably are last chance to interact before i zone you out and go with my current autowin circle.
If you could choose a 4 man mission who would it be and why?
coag / me / shockey / kita atm. One of HTS / Arta is not scum though (unless rayn is scum which is suuuuper unlikely), so I'm planning on discovering which.
On November 12 2015 20:58 sicklucker wrote: Rels you rejected my town circle. me/shockey and you all had noms coming up. why not wait for them?
'cause I thought rayn was town and you were more likely scum than Xata. After the vote your NO vote looked townie, but the way you're acting right now is super scummy. WHAT YOU ARE SAYING MAKES NO SENSE BECAUSE: The only difference waiting would have made would be switch Superbia for Shockey. ATM I thought the team was very likely to be HTS / Arta / you or Xata. So what you are accusing me of doing is not logical.
DUDE HOW CAN I BE SCUM WITH XATA? he was the one that went against the concsesus pick of artanis and decided to put me on the mission 1 team. He would never go out of his way to put his partner with him on the first mission and fail it giving both of us mass suspicious.
This is fucking common knowledge how can you scum read us both?
1 - I don't think you're scum with Xata. 2 - I don't think it's impossible, exactly because that logic you're advancing; "I couldn't be scum with that guy right ?" 3 - But I don't think it's the case.
On November 12 2015 21:02 sicklucker wrote: Ok rels this is probably are last chance to interact before i zone you out and go with my current autowin circle.
If you could choose a 4 man mission who would it be and why?
coag / me / shockey / kita atm. One of HTS / Arta is not scum though (unless rayn is scum which is suuuuper unlikely), so I'm planning on discovering which.
THEN YOU THINK IM TOWN AND YOU PUT ME ON THE LIST. also putting kita on the list is weird. like I thought you were together so its weird you suggest both but its a hypothetical anyway so w/e not gonna overthink it
On November 12 2015 21:10 sicklucker wrote: Rels Like maybe im just scum reading you out of frustration here because I thought you were no voting for sure. but even so all my town reads think your scum... argg
Sry rayn got modkilled so you have to commit to scumread Xata now =X hard hit for you I suppose.
On November 12 2015 20:53 sicklucker wrote: Art I just thought of something. Me and vivax cant be on the same scum team theres too many reasons why it does not work.
Mission one that includes me, super votes no Mission two that includes super, I vote no I scum read super all of the game. Super scum read me most or all of the game Me and vivax just had that retarded interaction
Me and vivax are never a team.
So that means im only scum with rels + 1 of hts/shockey
So if your mission team has either hts/shockey or both (it does) It may as well just include me since the mission will already fail in the world where I am scum.
Your a smart dude (i think?) so im sure you understand this
you see a problem here with that rels?
None. Except the "Me and vivax just had that retarded interaction", I have no idea what you're talking about. 1: by that logic, you should townread me since I voted NO to a team with my partner if I'm scum. It's extremely likely one scum voted NO to the first team, barring some stupid possibilities (rayn scum or two scums in the first team). 2: it was obvious the team was going to pass. 3: it the perfect strategy for this game; one of you is townread and put in a team, the other one gets town cred when the team fails. 4: I don't know, will evaluate that.
On November 12 2015 21:10 sicklucker wrote: Rels Like maybe im just scum reading you out of frustration here because I thought you were no voting for sure. but even so all my town reads think your scum... argg
Sry rayn got modkilled so you have to commit to scumread Xata now =X hard hit for you I suppose.
funny Im pretty sure you were one of the only other people pushing the rayn world and thats part of why i was town reading you
Yeah but I saw he was town before the modkill, hence why I voted YES to his team. Sry bro (= I hoped you passed 5K though so you didn't lose everything
On November 12 2015 20:53 sicklucker wrote: Art I just thought of something. Me and vivax cant be on the same scum team theres too many reasons why it does not work.
Mission one that includes me, super votes no Mission two that includes super, I vote no I scum read super all of the game. Super scum read me most or all of the game Me and vivax just had that retarded interaction
Me and vivax are never a team.
So that means im only scum with rels + 1 of hts/shockey
So if your mission team has either hts/shockey or both (it does) It may as well just include me since the mission will already fail in the world where I am scum.
Your a smart dude (i think?) so im sure you understand this
you see a problem here with that rels?
None. Except the "Me and vivax just had that retarded interaction", I have no idea what you're talking about. 1: by that logic, you should townread me since I voted NO to a team with my partner if I'm scum. It's extremely likely one scum voted NO to the first team, barring some stupid possibilities (rayn scum or two scums in the first team). 2: it was obvious the team was going to pass. 3: it the perfect strategy for this game; one of you is townread and put in a team, the other one gets town cred when the team fails. 4: I don't know, will evaluate that.
who voted yes for the first mission again? thats acualy really important stuff that i forgot
On November 12 2015 21:24 sicklucker wrote: acualy there probably both fucking scum what is happening. no scum should ever vote no here. like im so confused rels hold me
Yeah that is what I thought BUT THAT ONLY WORKS IF RAYN IS MAFIA Which I suppose is possible but fucking unlikely. What is sooo weird is that neither of them is scumreading the other now, when there is 99% chance of one of them being scum. At least HTS is townreading Arta, and I think Arta recently townreads HTS ? He's so non commital though
On November 12 2015 21:26 sicklucker wrote: Ok fuck it rels maybe ill put you on my nom team since they both say your scum you have to be town in theory (LOL). no kita tho
As long as you're not in it it could pass. Going to grab some food brb
On November 12 2015 21:29 sicklucker wrote: if i was to choose one its probably art he seems to just stand in the middle of the game and I think he jumped onto hts being town after hts called art town? idk we should check that
Yeah that's what I think too. But I can't forget that HTS "thought" Artanis had to pick a team before we knew if the Xatalos' team succeeded; and instead of being like "FUCK IT WE RE WAITING" like everybody else, she was like "OH MAYBE WE SHOULD SEND THE SAME TEAM + 1 BEFORE KNOWING THE TEAM 1 RESULT".
On November 12 2015 21:30 sicklucker wrote: Oh rels your the worst townplayer I have ever seen but at least I remembered your alignmment
Townreading me when I appear on the thread ? Check Destroying my credibility by calling me the worst player ever ? Check Wasn't a very good pocket attempt wouldn't do again
On November 06 2015 08:04 Half the Sky wrote: Nice.
So we have a scumteam of Rels/Shockey and one of Kita/Superbia. At least it's looking that way.
I'm thinking Artanis should nominate himself, rayn and Xatalos. That is my first impression.
How can you even tell, the mission hasn't even passed. If anything this "scum team" suggestion of yours is your scummiest post already trying to claim others as scum when mission not even done.... PSH... You swear that a mafia member won't be on a team.
++ HTS immediately thinking of sending another team instead of waiting for the currect one to finish is super scummy. And it doesn't make sense.
On November 12 2015 21:35 sicklucker wrote: also artanis is pushing a made up world (me/you/vivax) as an excuse to not include me. (alto he does not mind including vivax for some reason)
Because if hes scum then my suggestion of a me/hts/coag/shockey team is pure and he cant have that
hell the team might be xata/art/vivax altho it could still be kita.
YOU SHOCKEY
I have had your back all game your my boy when you log in today and you dont know what team to submit remember im yo boy and i hadz your back all game no one else did.
SUBMIT SHOCKEY/SICKLUCKER/HTS/COAG ITS A GAME WINNER
OK arta is probably the scum over hts. I would vote YES to that if you can convince me xata is scummier than you. Hard task though
On November 12 2015 21:53 sicklucker wrote: Like rels I have no idea how to convince you im town. Im being my town self im dropping logic if you can filter my spam (i spam as town deal with it, get used to it) Im showing my thought process as best I can. Im revaulting alot. Im spending an absurd of time today on this game? like the last 5 hours?
Yeah exactly. You throw many reads around and change them super quickly; the only common point between all your posts is that you should be on the next team.
On November 13 2015 00:46 Half the Sky wrote: Rels, I will say it a fifth time but me (or anyone for that matter) thinking of nominated teams rounds ahead is not mafia motivated. It is NAI and I've been doing that all game thinking out loud.
No it's not the same thing. In that particular instance: you proposed to send mission 2 before knowing the result of mission 1. Mission 1 failed. So it's possible you wanted the same infiltrated team to be sent two times before we could realize it.
On November 13 2015 00:46 Half the Sky wrote: Additionally, you are unfamiliar with this game so from that standpoint alone - I know you scumread me from the beginning when I did that, so why aren't you tagging sicklucker (or did you and I just missed skimming it????) for doing the same thing in round 2 when we were both convinced the mission would fail on a 7-2 vote?
1 - it's not the same thing at all; thinking the team would fail seeing the vote is logical. Wanting to send a team before knowing the result of the previous team is not. 2 - I scumread SL, though not for that reason
Anyway, only one of you / Arta is scum, and I think it's Arta, so I don't know why you are super defensive like that.
On November 13 2015 00:46 Half the Sky wrote: Rels, I will say it a fifth time but me (or anyone for that matter) thinking of nominated teams rounds ahead is not mafia motivated. It is NAI and I've been doing that all game thinking out loud.
No it's not the same thing. In that particular instance: you proposed to send mission 2 before knowing the result of mission 1. Mission 1 failed. So it's possible you wanted the same infiltrated team to be sent two times before we could realize it.
lol we'd have to be pretty slow to fall for that wouldn't we? There is a full 48 hour period between the two.
You're saying that her plan was to hope nobody noticed the team failed or.....?
No atm she thought the team would go before the result of the first team came back. But I'm realizing we would still vote knowing the result of the first team, so I'm mistaken on that. No team could go before we knew the previous team's result, even if the nomination of the team could happen before the result.
On November 13 2015 00:46 Half the Sky wrote: Rels, I will say it a fifth time but me (or anyone for that matter) thinking of nominated teams rounds ahead is not mafia motivated. It is NAI and I've been doing that all game thinking out loud.
No it's not the same thing. In that particular instance: you proposed to send mission 2 before knowing the result of mission 1. Mission 1 failed. So it's possible you wanted the same infiltrated team to be sent two times before we could realize it.
lol we'd have to be pretty slow to fall for that wouldn't we? There is a full 48 hour period between the two.
You're saying that her plan was to hope nobody noticed the team failed or.....?
This has to be the most sketchy thing you've said all game Rels.
Do you realize this quote comes from a time where she thought the nomination of the next team would happen before the result of the first team ? But I agree it doesn't make sense actually since the voting still would have taken place after the result.
On November 13 2015 01:00 Half the Sky wrote: sicklucker, you were mafia in Guardians with rayn, send him a link to the mafia qt for that game.
Now I have to go, and fight the customs battle at JFK. Christ I hate this airport.
i dont see how that relevant. like even if rayns not meta confirmed we have to pick one at some point to have a solid majority so its a good risk to take. theres 3 groups currenly with one mafia confirmed basicly. They are
me rayn,xata art , hts , rels * vivax , kita ,rels *
On November 13 2015 01:00 Half the Sky wrote: sicklucker, you were mafia in Guardians with rayn, send him a link to the mafia qt for that game.
Now I have to go, and fight the customs battle at JFK. Christ I hate this airport.
i dont see how that relevant. like even if rayns not meta confirmed we have to pick one at some point to have a solid majority so its a good risk to take. theres 3 groups currenly with one mafia confirmed basicly. They are
me rayn,xata art , hts , rels * vivax , kita ,rels *
* assumes ryans town
Where does the second group comes from ?
arts weird logic idk. now that i think about it that makes little sense ask him
I don't get it. Why would you write something that you take from a potential scumread of yours (and if I got it, your stronger potential third scum) if you don't understand it / don't believe it's true ?
On November 13 2015 00:46 Half the Sky wrote: Rels, I will say it a fifth time but me (or anyone for that matter) thinking of nominated teams rounds ahead is not mafia motivated. It is NAI and I've been doing that all game thinking out loud.
No it's not the same thing. In that particular instance: you proposed to send mission 2 before knowing the result of mission 1. Mission 1 failed. So it's possible you wanted the same infiltrated team to be sent two times before we could realize it.
lol we'd have to be pretty slow to fall for that wouldn't we? There is a full 48 hour period between the two.
You're saying that her plan was to hope nobody noticed the team failed or.....?
This has to be the most sketchy thing you've said all game Rels.
It's stuff like this that makes me think he's reaching for scumreads.
Post #2341 is a good example of this.
Look at his read progression on Artanis/rayn and myself from his posts into 2343/2344 from 2364 and 2365.
How does he put rayn as mafia? Look at the flips on Artanis and myself.
Also Rels calling me defensive (ie a reason to call me scum) when it is he who brings up that same reasoning 4h ago in #2566, how would he expect me not to respond to that? He's been hammering that point up all game until Kita called him on it.
From my mindset, if he's town (and I don't think he is for other reasons) he's not familiar with thinking ahead, if he's mafia, he needs a reason to see my behaviour as mafia.
Regardless of familiarity, the fact that Kita is able to see a town mindset from #2566 and Rels was not able to for the better part of the game (after me telling him multiple times) is telling.
Yeah, someone else had to explain how my thinking was flawed. This game you havent be clear when you posted stuff. Youre not reading properly or not answering properly. Like that attack on xatalos when he said "he didnt drop the rayn townread over sl": you said multiple times it didnt make sense and I still dont get it. Now since Arta is probably scum, you are probably town, so just saying vague stuff like that is not enough: if you scumread me, I need you to make a case. By the same occasion, please make a town case on arta.
On November 13 2015 02:52 Half the Sky wrote: 1h45m spent in customs....someone please kill me.
Kita, regarding the scum meta on SOTW 2 and Drams, being on mobile, I cannot quote, but I will do my best to try and direct you based on everything I recall.
From those two games, Rels thrives in environments where there are scummy townies. The same parallel is here - you have Schokey and myself scumread nearly all game until this most recent cycle and sicklucker has and still has chock decent doubt on him.
Let me try and break it down as best I can.
SOTW 2 - scumteam were Damdred/Rels/Fidei 1 The scummy townies from my own recollection from DAY ONE are: Shining (day vigged day 1)/Dandel Ion (lynched day 1 because of activity/nonsensical)/LightningStrike and there might have been one more. If I recall right, focus on the interactions between Rels vs Lightning Strike and I BELEIVE Dandel Ion. HE IS OUT TO GET THEM.
Rels is able to take control of the thread day 2 onwards because he is the only one that fully understands the complex mechanics of SOTW 2 and rayn was forced to trust him. A lot of the tone reads you cite here are present there and you will see are NAI.
Battle of the Drams - scumteam sicklucker/Rels/Shining 1 Again focus on interactions. The scummy townies this game were scott31337 (replaced in and mislynched day 1 for J-Roc a smurf who left him in a bad position), coolTLname (mislynched day 2, unfamiliar with TL mafia style coming from SC2 mafia).
He pushed Trfel hard early day 1 (607/620) from baic questions, coolTL name from #751/753 in that thread. Also look at 751/753 posts in Drams and compare that to the posts in this game where he's pushing Artanis. There are places he stretches the truth and I caught where he was doing that with Artanis this game.
And people who want to townread Rels on activity. No.
Filters - SOTW 2 - 21 pages (3 cycles I think, endgamed n3) Drams - 28 pages (3 cycles I think, conceded n3 as the entire scumteam was exposed)
So what scummy townie am I attacking this game ? Who are my danden ion / bm / coolTLname (lol my phone has this name registered cause I typed it so much) / JRoc ?
On November 13 2015 02:52 Half the Sky wrote: 1h45m spent in customs....someone please kill me.
Kita, regarding the scum meta on SOTW 2 and Drams, being on mobile, I cannot quote, but I will do my best to try and direct you based on everything I recall.
From those two games, Rels thrives in environments where there are scummy townies. The same parallel is here - you have Schokey and myself scumread nearly all game until this most recent cycle and sicklucker has and still has chock decent doubt on him.
Let me try and break it down as best I can.
SOTW 2 - scumteam were Damdred/Rels/Fidei 1 The scummy townies from my own recollection from DAY ONE are: Shining (day vigged day 1)/Dandel Ion (lynched day 1 because of activity/nonsensical)/LightningStrike and there might have been one more. If I recall right, focus on the interactions between Rels vs Lightning Strike and I BELEIVE Dandel Ion. HE IS OUT TO GET THEM.
Rels is able to take control of the thread day 2 onwards because he is the only one that fully understands the complex mechanics of SOTW 2 and rayn was forced to trust him. A lot of the tone reads you cite here are present there and you will see are NAI.
Battle of the Drams - scumteam sicklucker/Rels/Shining 1 Again focus on interactions. The scummy townies this game were scott31337 (replaced in and mislynched day 1 for J-Roc a smurf who left him in a bad position), coolTLname (mislynched day 2, unfamiliar with TL mafia style coming from SC2 mafia).
He pushed Trfel hard early day 1 (607/620) from baic questions, coolTL name from #751/753 in that thread. Also look at 751/753 posts in Drams and compare that to the posts in this game where he's pushing Artanis. There are places he stretches the truth and I caught where he was doing that with Artanis this game.
And people who want to townread Rels on activity. No.
Filters - SOTW 2 - 21 pages (3 cycles I think, endgamed n3) Drams - 28 pages (3 cycles I think, conceded n3 as the entire scumteam was exposed)
So what scummy townie am I attacking this game ? Who are my danden ion / bm / coolTLname (lol my phone has this name registered cause I typed it so much) / JRoc ?
On November 13 2015 00:46 Half the Sky wrote: Rels, I will say it a fifth time but me (or anyone for that matter) thinking of nominated teams rounds ahead is not mafia motivated. It is NAI and I've been doing that all game thinking out loud.
No it's not the same thing. In that particular instance: you proposed to send mission 2 before knowing the result of mission 1. Mission 1 failed. So it's possible you wanted the same infiltrated team to be sent two times before we could realize it.
lol we'd have to be pretty slow to fall for that wouldn't we? There is a full 48 hour period between the two.
You're saying that her plan was to hope nobody noticed the team failed or.....?
This has to be the most sketchy thing you've said all game Rels.
It's stuff like this that makes me think he's reaching for scumreads.
Post #2341 is a good example of this.
Look at his read progression on Artanis/rayn and myself from his posts into 2343/2344 from 2364 and 2365.
How does he put rayn as mafia? Look at the flips on Artanis and myself.
Also Rels calling me defensive (ie a reason to call me scum) when it is he who brings up that same reasoning 4h ago in #2566, how would he expect me not to respond to that? He's been hammering that point up all game until Kita called him on it.
From my mindset, if he's town (and I don't think he is for other reasons) he's not familiar with thinking ahead, if he's mafia, he needs a reason to see my behaviour as mafia.
Regardless of familiarity, the fact that Kita is able to see a town mindset from #2566 and Rels was not able to for the better part of the game (after me telling him multiple times) is telling.
Yeah, someone else had to explain how my thinking was flawed. This game you havent be clear when you posted stuff. Youre not reading properly or not answering properly. Like that attack on xatalos when he said "he didnt drop the rayn townread over sl": you said multiple times it didnt make sense and I still dont get it. Now since Arta is probably scum, you are probably town, so just saying vague stuff like that is not enough: if you scumread me, I need you to make a case. By the same occasion, please make a town case on arta.
On November 13 2015 02:52 Half the Sky wrote: 1h45m spent in customs....someone please kill me.
Kita, regarding the scum meta on SOTW 2 and Drams, being on mobile, I cannot quote, but I will do my best to try and direct you based on everything I recall.
From those two games, Rels thrives in environments where there are scummy townies. The same parallel is here - you have Schokey and myself scumread nearly all game until this most recent cycle and sicklucker has and still has chock decent doubt on him.
Let me try and break it down as best I can.
SOTW 2 - scumteam were Damdred/Rels/Fidei 1 The scummy townies from my own recollection from DAY ONE are: Shining (day vigged day 1)/Dandel Ion (lynched day 1 because of activity/nonsensical)/LightningStrike and there might have been one more. If I recall right, focus on the interactions between Rels vs Lightning Strike and I BELEIVE Dandel Ion. HE IS OUT TO GET THEM.
Rels is able to take control of the thread day 2 onwards because he is the only one that fully understands the complex mechanics of SOTW 2 and rayn was forced to trust him. A lot of the tone reads you cite here are present there and you will see are NAI.
Battle of the Drams - scumteam sicklucker/Rels/Shining 1 Again focus on interactions. The scummy townies this game were scott31337 (replaced in and mislynched day 1 for J-Roc a smurf who left him in a bad position), coolTLname (mislynched day 2, unfamiliar with TL mafia style coming from SC2 mafia).
He pushed Trfel hard early day 1 (607/620) from baic questions, coolTL name from #751/753 in that thread. Also look at 751/753 posts in Drams and compare that to the posts in this game where he's pushing Artanis. There are places he stretches the truth and I caught where he was doing that with Artanis this game.
And people who want to townread Rels on activity. No.
Filters - SOTW 2 - 21 pages (3 cycles I think, endgamed n3) Drams - 28 pages (3 cycles I think, conceded n3 as the entire scumteam was exposed)
So what scummy townie am I attacking this game ? Who are my danden ion / bm / coolTLname (lol my phone has this name registered cause I typed it so much) / JRoc ?
Easy, me and sicklucker whom any townie familiar with his game should know that he's not the most articulate person in the world. He's been jumped on all game for stuff not lining up. Which is exactly why I sought his side form his perspective as screwy as he might play this game, that's the way it is.
I've played games with him as town, as mafia and hosted several games where he was mafia. If ANYONE should have his alignment spot on especially by lategame, it's me. Early game, not so much but lategame absolutely. LightningStrike isn't present this game and neither is marv/JAT/etc but they are examples of others who do better with figuring him out.
So you two are scummier townie than shockey ? And more importantly, WHY are you townreading arta ? If you're town, you can be wrong on me; but you need to realize you being town makes Arta scum. Think about it! Why are you townreading him again ?
On November 13 2015 01:00 ShoCkeyy wrote: ##Nominate ShoCkeyy, Vivax, HtS, Sicklucker
oops.
I am going to look into Vivax and the voting patterns again....since that is what my priority should be.
Here's the thing, Rels is mafia. This is my world.
Rels wanting to replace Vivax out is scaring the shit out of me (#2640) and earlier he wanted to swap Shockey in (forget the mission number) for Superbia (#2156). The mafia motivation for this is an easier fall guy whom at the time was being universally scumread or near universally scumread.
This would point to a Xatalos/Rels/Kitaman team in which case I'd have to re-review sicklucker and Vivax's points against them.
Do the votes make sense....
This would mean rayn was right early game to be more hesistant to townread Kita....and that Rels townread....ignorance or a reason to get him on the team.
WHY IS THIS GAME SO HARD.
#rantover
Mate you are so tunneled. I hope you realize your mistake before it loses us the game.
On November 13 2015 06:56 Vivax wrote: I can tell you already that I would send or accept HTS/Coag/Artanis/myself.
I can compromise on swapping myself out with either Shockey or Xata (who I think is more likely to be town than SL) if you don't trust me.
If you also TR rayn who in my opinion is a good player but had to be wrong on someone last cycle, that sort of coincides with his reads, with exception of HTS/Shockey.
I'm so sure on Xatalos and Rels as spies at this point but if we must compromise and you want SL out, then Shockey in for sure.
Also the frustrating thing here is that rayn is town but Coag needs to do his part in getting Shockey out of the tunnel. Goddamnit.
Part of the problem there from Shockey's POV is that rayn voted for two failed missions and was in two failed missions but that must mean that who else is scum? But there's a reason that not even scum are trying to bury him for that even. His reads were off this game (Shockey/myself) so that should lend clear to him as to why he voted that way and put the people on his mission that he did.
And to be quite frank, if it comes down to you and Xatalos, I would take you over Xatalos by a country mile. Because I really really think he's mafia and if he gets on a team again, this game is over.
HTS you need to stop being so tunneled and THINK You are town => Arta is scum
Others have to decide which of you, or if both of you are scum, but you have a big chance: you know your alignement. Two people voted YES on the first team and wasn't on the first team: there is 99% chance one of them if scum. And YOU are one of them.
Here you are pushing a me + Vivax or me + kita team, which is extremely unlikely. I know where you are. I was tunneled on you with rayn before, specificaly for that reason: you refuse to admit two people voting NO is next to impossible with such a close vote.
Your stubborness modkilled rayn. Don't make it lose the game and think; even if you can't decide I'm town, at least stop townreading Arta, 'cause it doesn't make sense.
BTW if you're scum and Arta is town, fucking WP. I mean, it's more Arta failing than you being good in this case, but WP for keeping the effort.
On November 13 2015 02:52 Half the Sky wrote: 1h45m spent in customs....someone please kill me.
Kita, regarding the scum meta on SOTW 2 and Drams, being on mobile, I cannot quote, but I will do my best to try and direct you based on everything I recall.
From those two games, Rels thrives in environments where there are scummy townies. The same parallel is here - you have Schokey and myself scumread nearly all game until this most recent cycle and sicklucker has and still has chock decent doubt on him.
Let me try and break it down as best I can.
SOTW 2 - scumteam were Damdred/Rels/Fidei 1 The scummy townies from my own recollection from DAY ONE are: Shining (day vigged day 1)/Dandel Ion (lynched day 1 because of activity/nonsensical)/LightningStrike and there might have been one more. If I recall right, focus on the interactions between Rels vs Lightning Strike and I BELEIVE Dandel Ion. HE IS OUT TO GET THEM.
Rels is able to take control of the thread day 2 onwards because he is the only one that fully understands the complex mechanics of SOTW 2 and rayn was forced to trust him. A lot of the tone reads you cite here are present there and you will see are NAI.
Battle of the Drams - scumteam sicklucker/Rels/Shining 1 Again focus on interactions. The scummy townies this game were scott31337 (replaced in and mislynched day 1 for J-Roc a smurf who left him in a bad position), coolTLname (mislynched day 2, unfamiliar with TL mafia style coming from SC2 mafia).
He pushed Trfel hard early day 1 (607/620) from baic questions, coolTL name from #751/753 in that thread. Also look at 751/753 posts in Drams and compare that to the posts in this game where he's pushing Artanis. There are places he stretches the truth and I caught where he was doing that with Artanis this game.
And people who want to townread Rels on activity. No.
Filters - SOTW 2 - 21 pages (3 cycles I think, endgamed n3) Drams - 28 pages (3 cycles I think, conceded n3 as the entire scumteam was exposed)
So what scummy townie am I attacking this game ? Who are my danden ion / bm / coolTLname (lol my phone has this name registered cause I typed it so much) / JRoc ?
On November 13 2015 08:47 sicklucker wrote: Anyway since hts thinks I somewhat have to justify myself being an obviuos town its my filter. If you ever want to tell the different between me town game and my mafia game just look at my filter. I have never had this big of a filter as mafia in like my 12 mafia games on tl...
22 pages as scum in Battle of the Drams 24 pages as scum in TL Mafia LXX: Guardians of the Galaxy 19 pages as scum in Void
On November 13 2015 08:02 NocturneMage wrote: Shockey's Nomination Phase - End ShoCkeyy has nominated the following team for Mission 3:
(1) Shockey (2) Vivax (3) Half the Sky (4) sicklucker
Please PM your votes to Fidei86 and Tictock.
You may switch your vote as often as you like, until the deadline.
Deadline is in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00), 13 November.
What was the team you wanted to make shockeyy...? At least I very much doubt there isn't scum in this team, with it including both SL/HTS....
The scumteam is probably SL/HTS/Rels at this point. SL even just for the first failed mission, HTS for just making really crappy reasons to scumread people (as noted by basically everyone who read her posts so far) and Rels for voting YES last team when he still scumread people on it....
I think shockeyy and kita just have to be town by PoE.
So I think that's about it... Unfortunately Rels is next, but perhaps kita could be able to put up a decent team.
How is HTS scummier than Arta ? And why are you scumreading me again ? Last time it was "mm Rels has a good scumgame maybe he's scum".
On November 13 2015 08:02 NocturneMage wrote: Shockey's Nomination Phase - End ShoCkeyy has nominated the following team for Mission 3:
(1) Shockey (2) Vivax (3) Half the Sky (4) sicklucker
Please PM your votes to Fidei86 and Tictock.
You may switch your vote as often as you like, until the deadline.
Deadline is in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00), 13 November.
What was the team you wanted to make shockeyy...? At least I very much doubt there isn't scum in this team, with it including both SL/HTS....
The scumteam is probably SL/HTS/Rels at this point. SL even just for the first failed mission, HTS for just making really crappy reasons to scumread people (as noted by basically everyone who read her posts so far) and Rels for voting YES last team when he still scumread people on it....
I think shockeyy and kita just have to be town by PoE.
So I think that's about it... Unfortunately Rels is next, but perhaps kita could be able to put up a decent team.
HTS + Rels? Could you elaborate?
Basically HTS started the game scumreading Rels, but went to townread him when it mattered (he was nominated).... Both have also had some of the most shady votes around (HTS upvoting every failed team without being part of them even, and Rels upvoting the last failed team when logically he shouldn't have.....).
That is pretty true she only townread me for a short time when I was in a failing team, then she went back to scumread me after the team failed. Why does it make me scum instead of the fall guy though ?
On November 13 2015 06:56 Vivax wrote: I can tell you already that I would send or accept HTS/Coag/Artanis/myself.
I can compromise on swapping myself out with either Shockey or Xata (who I think is more likely to be town than SL) if you don't trust me.
If you also TR rayn who in my opinion is a good player but had to be wrong on someone last cycle, that sort of coincides with his reads, with exception of HTS/Shockey.
I'm so sure on Xatalos and Rels as spies at this point but if we must compromise and you want SL out, then Shockey in for sure.
Also the frustrating thing here is that rayn is town but Coag needs to do his part in getting Shockey out of the tunnel. Goddamnit.
Part of the problem there from Shockey's POV is that rayn voted for two failed missions and was in two failed missions but that must mean that who else is scum? But there's a reason that not even scum are trying to bury him for that even. His reads were off this game (Shockey/myself) so that should lend clear to him as to why he voted that way and put the people on his mission that he did.
And to be quite frank, if it comes down to you and Xatalos, I would take you over Xatalos by a country mile. Because I really really think he's mafia and if he gets on a team again, this game is over.
HTS you need to stop being so tunneled and THINK You are town => Arta is scum
Others have to decide which of you, or if both of you are scum, but you have a big chance: you know your alignement. Two people voted YES on the first team and wasn't on the first team: there is 99% chance one of them if scum. And YOU are one of them.
Here you are pushing a me + Vivax or me + kita team, which is extremely unlikely. I know where you are. I was tunneled on you with rayn before, specificaly for that reason: you refuse to admit two people voting NO is next to impossible with such a close vote.
Your stubborness modkilled rayn. Don't make it lose the game and think; even if you can't decide I'm town, at least stop townreading Arta, 'cause it doesn't make sense.
BTW if you're scum and Arta is town, fucking WP. I mean, it's more Arta failing than you being good in this case, but WP for keeping the effort.
Have you already forgotten that one of HtS and I HAS to be town unless Rayn is scum? Your memory must be really crappy.
Also, stop pushing the whole scum has to have voted yes on the first mission. You said yourself bussing makes sense for scum in this setup. It's very possible that they positioned themselves to not be able to vote yes for the first mission. My reasons for voting yes make perfect sense.
Why is a you + Vivax or Kita team so unlikely, and how the hell did you get such a strong townread on HtS after being incredibly tunneled on her not too long ago?
I've also done more than my fair share of work and I've explained everything I've done. You on the other hand make no sense.
"Have you already forgotten that one of HtS and I HAS to be town unless Rayn is scum? Your memory must be really crappy." <=> "how the hell did you get such a strong townread on HtS after being incredibly tunneled on her not too long ago?" You answer yourself. One of you is scum, and both of you, although possible, is super unlikely. HTS is townier than you => you are scum. What is your read on HTS ?
On November 13 2015 19:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also going "Hey I have two scumreads, one is slightly stronger than the other." "Oh it turns out one of them has to be town, let's presume the one that's stronger is scum and not do any work on actually doing more research on it." Doesn't particularly strike me as a townie mindset.
It doesn't make sense to go from "Arta and HTS are both scum" to "wait they can't be both scums unless rayn is scum, so let's assume the scummiest is scum" after the second mission fails ? What does not make sense in that reasonning ?
Of course, if you reasonned that way you would have to attack HTS, who is townreading you. I'm pretty sure your read on her would be different if she was scumreading you.
On November 12 2015 02:40 Rels wrote: I suppose Arta / rayn / Xata makes some sense too. The relations between the three are super weird: - Xata and Arta hard townreads each other - Arta and rayn are super buddies that don't re evaluate on each other - Arta and Xata have very little interaction. So the plan would be to put two scums in the first team, so one of them exits with the universal townread, can make the second team fail; and now the plan is to put the third scum in the third team.
On November 12 2015 03:15 Fidei86 wrote: After discussion between myself and Tictock in the Host QT, and also consultation with Blazinghand, I have decided to issue a second warning to raynpelikoneet for this post. The effect of a second warning (the first warning being here) is a modkill/auto-replace, which is effective immediately.
I will begin searching for a replacement immediately. Until one is found, raynpelikoneet's slot will be eligible to go on missions, and will deemed to vote YES on all proposed missions. If his slot has the spy alignment, it will be deemed to attempt to sabotage any mission on which it is placed. His slot will be skipped for the purpose of team submission.
The OP for this game makes clear that all players are obliged to be civil and corteous to each other. The hosts recognise that Mafia/Resistance can give rise to strong emotions. However, there is a large and important difference between criticising someone's play or their decision making, and personal attacks designed only to belittle or demean. The former happens all the time, but the second will not be tolerated.
If anyone has any concerns about this action, or any further rules questions arising please contact me immediately, copying Tictock and Blazinghand.
Wow rayn is probably mod-confirmed town then. I don't think scum would cross the line after being warned.
This chain of events actually makes no sense either. Rayn posted everything he posted already at this point. The fact that he got modkilled doesn't mean anything about his alignment; the risk he took was already there as he was making the posts yet Rels doesn't use it to confirm Rayn until he actually gets modkilled.
Unless you're saying that the actual modkill itself is alignment indicative it makes no sense to flip your read on Rayn to 99% sure town just for that because he couldn't know what he was doing would get him modkilled.
Yeah the modkill made me realize rayn had crossed a line he probably wouldn't have crossed if he was scum.
On November 13 2015 19:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also going "Hey I have two scumreads, one is slightly stronger than the other." "Oh it turns out one of them has to be town, let's presume the one that's stronger is scum and not do any work on actually doing more research on it." Doesn't particularly strike me as a townie mindset.
It doesn't make sense to go from "Arta and HTS are both scum" to "wait they can't be both scums unless rayn is scum, so let's assume the scummiest is scum" after the second mission fails ? What does not make sense in that reasonning ?
Of course, if you reasonned that way you would have to attack HTS, who is townreading you. I'm pretty sure your read on her would be different if she was scumreading you.
The fact that you had two strong scumreads means it makes no sense. If you had strong reasons to suspect both of us, which you kept saying you did, a townie mindset is going "fuck, I must be pretty damn wrong, I should re-evaluate" rather than "well I guess I was wrong on one of them, let's just go with the one I suspect slightly more! #YOLO"
No, I townread her because I actually went through the re-evaluation process after confirming that there was scum on that mission and realizing that at least one of shockeyy/hts were town.
You're saying nonsense. I have two scumreads; it's proven at least one of them is false; I keep the stronger scumread as scum. This whole mess started because neither of HTS and you consider the other to be very likely scum, which is bullshit. I have a hard time accepting one of you as town being super stupid and doing that; no way you're both town. One of you is riding the other's stupidity.
On November 12 2015 02:40 Rels wrote: I suppose Arta / rayn / Xata makes some sense too. The relations between the three are super weird: - Xata and Arta hard townreads each other - Arta and rayn are super buddies that don't re evaluate on each other - Arta and Xata have very little interaction. So the plan would be to put two scums in the first team, so one of them exits with the universal townread, can make the second team fail; and now the plan is to put the third scum in the third team.
On November 12 2015 20:36 Rels wrote:
On November 12 2015 03:15 Fidei86 wrote: After discussion between myself and Tictock in the Host QT, and also consultation with Blazinghand, I have decided to issue a second warning to raynpelikoneet for this post. The effect of a second warning (the first warning being here) is a modkill/auto-replace, which is effective immediately.
I will begin searching for a replacement immediately. Until one is found, raynpelikoneet's slot will be eligible to go on missions, and will deemed to vote YES on all proposed missions. If his slot has the spy alignment, it will be deemed to attempt to sabotage any mission on which it is placed. His slot will be skipped for the purpose of team submission.
The OP for this game makes clear that all players are obliged to be civil and corteous to each other. The hosts recognise that Mafia/Resistance can give rise to strong emotions. However, there is a large and important difference between criticising someone's play or their decision making, and personal attacks designed only to belittle or demean. The former happens all the time, but the second will not be tolerated.
If anyone has any concerns about this action, or any further rules questions arising please contact me immediately, copying Tictock and Blazinghand.
Wow rayn is probably mod-confirmed town then. I don't think scum would cross the line after being warned.
This chain of events actually makes no sense either. Rayn posted everything he posted already at this point. The fact that he got modkilled doesn't mean anything about his alignment; the risk he took was already there as he was making the posts yet Rels doesn't use it to confirm Rayn until he actually gets modkilled.
Unless you're saying that the actual modkill itself is alignment indicative it makes no sense to flip your read on Rayn to 99% sure town just for that because he couldn't know what he was doing would get him modkilled.
Yeah the modkill made me realize rayn had crossed a line he probably wouldn't have crossed if he was scum.
Curious how you instantly dismiss the idea that Rayn thought what he was posting is acceptable. You should be pretty familiar with his personality by now.
Are you saying scum!rayn could have done that, and I am scum slipping and mistakenly explaining my townread by saying only town!rayn would do that ?
On November 13 2015 19:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also going "Hey I have two scumreads, one is slightly stronger than the other." "Oh it turns out one of them has to be town, let's presume the one that's stronger is scum and not do any work on actually doing more research on it." Doesn't particularly strike me as a townie mindset.
It doesn't make sense to go from "Arta and HTS are both scum" to "wait they can't be both scums unless rayn is scum, so let's assume the scummiest is scum" after the second mission fails ? What does not make sense in that reasonning ?
Of course, if you reasonned that way you would have to attack HTS, who is townreading you. I'm pretty sure your read on her would be different if she was scumreading you.
The fact that you had two strong scumreads means it makes no sense. If you had strong reasons to suspect both of us, which you kept saying you did, a townie mindset is going "fuck, I must be pretty damn wrong, I should re-evaluate" rather than "well I guess I was wrong on one of them, let's just go with the one I suspect slightly more! #YOLO"
No, I townread her because I actually went through the re-evaluation process after confirming that there was scum on that mission and realizing that at least one of shockeyy/hts were town.
You're saying nonsense. I have two scumreads; it's proven at least one of them is false; I keep the stronger scumread as scum. This whole mess started because neither of HTS and you consider the other to be very likely scum, which is bullshit. I have a hard time accepting one of you as town being super stupid and doing that; no way you're both town. One of you is riding the other's stupidity.
That doesn't make any sense. You had two strong scumreads. One is false. Re-evaluate. Re-evaluating is what town does when it's proven they're clearly on the wrong track. The fact that you don't reveals your alignment. I considered her likely scum until I did just that.
LOL you are saying I'm not re evaluating. Nice try bro (= No need to discuss further then.
On November 13 2015 06:56 Vivax wrote: I can tell you already that I would send or accept HTS/Coag/Artanis/myself.
I can compromise on swapping myself out with either Shockey or Xata (who I think is more likely to be town than SL) if you don't trust me.
If you also TR rayn who in my opinion is a good player but had to be wrong on someone last cycle, that sort of coincides with his reads, with exception of HTS/Shockey.
I'm so sure on Xatalos and Rels as spies at this point but if we must compromise and you want SL out, then Shockey in for sure.
Also the frustrating thing here is that rayn is town but Coag needs to do his part in getting Shockey out of the tunnel. Goddamnit.
Part of the problem there from Shockey's POV is that rayn voted for two failed missions and was in two failed missions but that must mean that who else is scum? But there's a reason that not even scum are trying to bury him for that even. His reads were off this game (Shockey/myself) so that should lend clear to him as to why he voted that way and put the people on his mission that he did.
And to be quite frank, if it comes down to you and Xatalos, I would take you over Xatalos by a country mile. Because I really really think he's mafia and if he gets on a team again, this game is over.
HTS you need to stop being so tunneled and THINK You are town => Arta is scum
Others have to decide which of you, or if both of you are scum, but you have a big chance: you know your alignement. Two people voted YES on the first team and wasn't on the first team: there is 99% chance one of them if scum. And YOU are one of them.
Here you are pushing a me + Vivax or me + kita team, which is extremely unlikely. I know where you are. I was tunneled on you with rayn before, specificaly for that reason: you refuse to admit two people voting NO is next to impossible with such a close vote.
Your stubborness modkilled rayn. Don't make it lose the game and think; even if you can't decide I'm town, at least stop townreading Arta, 'cause it doesn't make sense.
BTW if you're scum and Arta is town, fucking WP. I mean, it's more Arta failing than you being good in this case, but WP for keeping the effort.
If your only reason for it being "extremely unlikely" is that you're town, you would've said impossible. Instead, you said extremely unlikely. There's really no way you're town.
There is no relationship case that prove we are not scum together. The fact that we all vote NO makes it extremely unlikely.
On November 12 2015 02:40 Rels wrote: I suppose Arta / rayn / Xata makes some sense too. The relations between the three are super weird: - Xata and Arta hard townreads each other - Arta and rayn are super buddies that don't re evaluate on each other - Arta and Xata have very little interaction. So the plan would be to put two scums in the first team, so one of them exits with the universal townread, can make the second team fail; and now the plan is to put the third scum in the third team.
On November 12 2015 20:36 Rels wrote:
On November 12 2015 03:15 Fidei86 wrote: After discussion between myself and Tictock in the Host QT, and also consultation with Blazinghand, I have decided to issue a second warning to raynpelikoneet for this post. The effect of a second warning (the first warning being here) is a modkill/auto-replace, which is effective immediately.
I will begin searching for a replacement immediately. Until one is found, raynpelikoneet's slot will be eligible to go on missions, and will deemed to vote YES on all proposed missions. If his slot has the spy alignment, it will be deemed to attempt to sabotage any mission on which it is placed. His slot will be skipped for the purpose of team submission.
The OP for this game makes clear that all players are obliged to be civil and corteous to each other. The hosts recognise that Mafia/Resistance can give rise to strong emotions. However, there is a large and important difference between criticising someone's play or their decision making, and personal attacks designed only to belittle or demean. The former happens all the time, but the second will not be tolerated.
If anyone has any concerns about this action, or any further rules questions arising please contact me immediately, copying Tictock and Blazinghand.
Wow rayn is probably mod-confirmed town then. I don't think scum would cross the line after being warned.
This chain of events actually makes no sense either. Rayn posted everything he posted already at this point. The fact that he got modkilled doesn't mean anything about his alignment; the risk he took was already there as he was making the posts yet Rels doesn't use it to confirm Rayn until he actually gets modkilled.
Unless you're saying that the actual modkill itself is alignment indicative it makes no sense to flip your read on Rayn to 99% sure town just for that because he couldn't know what he was doing would get him modkilled.
Yeah the modkill made me realize rayn had crossed a line he probably wouldn't have crossed if he was scum.
Curious how you instantly dismiss the idea that Rayn thought what he was posting is acceptable. You should be pretty familiar with his personality by now.
Are you saying scum!rayn could have done that, and I am scum slipping and mistakenly explaining my townread by saying only town!rayn would do that ?
I'm saying that it's a bad reason to townread him. There's plenty of good reasons to and 180ing on him because of something a mod did is not one.
You are not clear. 1 - I didn't 180. If you weren't distorting the fact, you would remember I was townreading rayn, and only considering him potential scum because of the possibility of the team failing due to vote result + his weird relationship with you. 2 - I townread him because him getting modkilled made me realize he crossed the line. So once again; is this a good reason, or is it not ? I'm not talking about mod actions; I'm talking about his words.
On November 13 2015 19:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also going "Hey I have two scumreads, one is slightly stronger than the other." "Oh it turns out one of them has to be town, let's presume the one that's stronger is scum and not do any work on actually doing more research on it." Doesn't particularly strike me as a townie mindset.
It doesn't make sense to go from "Arta and HTS are both scum" to "wait they can't be both scums unless rayn is scum, so let's assume the scummiest is scum" after the second mission fails ? What does not make sense in that reasonning ?
Of course, if you reasonned that way you would have to attack HTS, who is townreading you. I'm pretty sure your read on her would be different if she was scumreading you.
The fact that you had two strong scumreads means it makes no sense. If you had strong reasons to suspect both of us, which you kept saying you did, a townie mindset is going "fuck, I must be pretty damn wrong, I should re-evaluate" rather than "well I guess I was wrong on one of them, let's just go with the one I suspect slightly more! #YOLO"
No, I townread her because I actually went through the re-evaluation process after confirming that there was scum on that mission and realizing that at least one of shockeyy/hts were town.
You're saying nonsense. I have two scumreads; it's proven at least one of them is false; I keep the stronger scumread as scum. This whole mess started because neither of HTS and you consider the other to be very likely scum, which is bullshit. I have a hard time accepting one of you as town being super stupid and doing that; no way you're both town. One of you is riding the other's stupidity.
That doesn't make any sense. You had two strong scumreads. One is false. Re-evaluate. Re-evaluating is what town does when it's proven they're clearly on the wrong track. The fact that you don't reveals your alignment. I considered her likely scum until I did just that.
LOL you are saying I'm not re evaluating. Nice try bro (= No need to discuss further then.
Yeah, you instantly jumped to the conclusion I was the scum and you have never reconsidered.
Anyway, done talking to scum. Should be obvious to everyone else by now. Back to work.
On November 13 2015 06:56 Vivax wrote: I can tell you already that I would send or accept HTS/Coag/Artanis/myself.
I can compromise on swapping myself out with either Shockey or Xata (who I think is more likely to be town than SL) if you don't trust me.
If you also TR rayn who in my opinion is a good player but had to be wrong on someone last cycle, that sort of coincides with his reads, with exception of HTS/Shockey.
I'm so sure on Xatalos and Rels as spies at this point but if we must compromise and you want SL out, then Shockey in for sure.
Also the frustrating thing here is that rayn is town but Coag needs to do his part in getting Shockey out of the tunnel. Goddamnit.
Part of the problem there from Shockey's POV is that rayn voted for two failed missions and was in two failed missions but that must mean that who else is scum? But there's a reason that not even scum are trying to bury him for that even. His reads were off this game (Shockey/myself) so that should lend clear to him as to why he voted that way and put the people on his mission that he did.
And to be quite frank, if it comes down to you and Xatalos, I would take you over Xatalos by a country mile. Because I really really think he's mafia and if he gets on a team again, this game is over.
HTS you need to stop being so tunneled and THINK You are town => Arta is scum
Others have to decide which of you, or if both of you are scum, but you have a big chance: you know your alignement. Two people voted YES on the first team and wasn't on the first team: there is 99% chance one of them if scum. And YOU are one of them.
Here you are pushing a me + Vivax or me + kita team, which is extremely unlikely. I know where you are. I was tunneled on you with rayn before, specificaly for that reason: you refuse to admit two people voting NO is next to impossible with such a close vote.
Your stubborness modkilled rayn. Don't make it lose the game and think; even if you can't decide I'm town, at least stop townreading Arta, 'cause it doesn't make sense.
BTW if you're scum and Arta is town, fucking WP. I mean, it's more Arta failing than you being good in this case, but WP for keeping the effort.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Rels, I know you're mafia here, but on the bolded, thanks for making me laugh.
rayn lacked self-control, that's why he was modkilled, not because of anyone. Honestly it didn't matter what my reads were at the time or what I was doing, what happened, happened.
And Rels, there's so many things wrong with your filter, it's not funny. Funny that Artanis even highlighted some of them.
Again, Xatalos got on that team, and that's all that needed to happen with where the reads of people were. rayn was scumreading Superbia, you, and myself at the time, and he pushed sicklucker over Artanis because the "scummier" people were voting for the team. If you voted yes, with a mission failure and you couldn't line your stuff up as scum, you'd look bad. And scum are concerned about how they look. Voting no doesn't necessarily vindicate you when there's other things going on.
Wait.
If you voted yes, with a mission failure and you couldn't line your stuff up as scum, you'd look bad.
You're saying I couldn't have possibly voted YES without looking bad during the mission 1 without looking bad. Confirm / deny ?
On November 13 2015 06:56 Vivax wrote: I can tell you already that I would send or accept HTS/Coag/Artanis/myself.
I can compromise on swapping myself out with either Shockey or Xata (who I think is more likely to be town than SL) if you don't trust me.
If you also TR rayn who in my opinion is a good player but had to be wrong on someone last cycle, that sort of coincides with his reads, with exception of HTS/Shockey.
I'm so sure on Xatalos and Rels as spies at this point but if we must compromise and you want SL out, then Shockey in for sure.
Also the frustrating thing here is that rayn is town but Coag needs to do his part in getting Shockey out of the tunnel. Goddamnit.
Part of the problem there from Shockey's POV is that rayn voted for two failed missions and was in two failed missions but that must mean that who else is scum? But there's a reason that not even scum are trying to bury him for that even. His reads were off this game (Shockey/myself) so that should lend clear to him as to why he voted that way and put the people on his mission that he did.
And to be quite frank, if it comes down to you and Xatalos, I would take you over Xatalos by a country mile. Because I really really think he's mafia and if he gets on a team again, this game is over.
HTS you need to stop being so tunneled and THINK You are town => Arta is scum
Others have to decide which of you, or if both of you are scum, but you have a big chance: you know your alignement. Two people voted YES on the first team and wasn't on the first team: there is 99% chance one of them if scum. And YOU are one of them.
Here you are pushing a me + Vivax or me + kita team, which is extremely unlikely. I know where you are. I was tunneled on you with rayn before, specificaly for that reason: you refuse to admit two people voting NO is next to impossible with such a close vote.
Your stubborness modkilled rayn. Don't make it lose the game and think; even if you can't decide I'm town, at least stop townreading Arta, 'cause it doesn't make sense.
BTW if you're scum and Arta is town, fucking WP. I mean, it's more Arta failing than you being good in this case, but WP for keeping the effort.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Rels, I know you're mafia here, but on the bolded, thanks for making me laugh.
rayn lacked self-control, that's why he was modkilled, not because of anyone. Honestly it didn't matter what my reads were at the time or what I was doing, what happened, happened.
And Rels, there's so many things wrong with your filter, it's not funny. Funny that Artanis even highlighted some of them.
HTS where you have goooone Why are you never answering meeeee It looks like you are avoiding meeeee Do you really think I was forced to vote NO to the first voooooote Can you confiiiiiirm
On November 13 2015 23:16 Half the Sky wrote: I'm reading again from pages 40- to about 80 or whenever the first mission failed. That was a generic argument, you stated had no reason to townread sicklucker.
Then later on, this quote more or less supports my "let's see where everyone stands" theory.
On November 05 2015 22:03 Xatalos wrote: Rels, thoughts on the current team?
rayn and you are town. SL I'm not sure. Nothing scummy, but he's not doing much. Arta tomorrow will probably elect you / rayn / him; my vote will depend on who I think is towniest between SL and Arta at deadline. Waiting on Arta's answers to me + his analysis on me he said he would do.
Page 65 you're voting no, rayn is trying to still push the team though in the argument between him and you, although his pushing we might need another look at. (page 64-65)
In any case, to answer you Rels, a scum Rels would know that Xatalos is obviously going to vote yes on the team he puts through. You're waiting for SL, so that's basically the reason for you to vote no. What I'm trying to say is that you voting no doesn't necessarily vindicate you from being scum. Especially if everyone else's thoughts are making sense. Does this make sense now?
Actually the biggest problem overall is that you are almost overfocusing on the votes alone, and there are other layers to this game (namely the filters when I look at theirs and when I look at yours). Obviously we're "forced" to eliminate one of you and PoE it down to two townies. Duh, of course that's what scum are banking on here.
And there was a really good gem from rayn on Kita that I'll put in another post. It's decent food for discussion.
So you agree I could have voted YES without looking bad in case I'm scum. Thanks. (= Of course one scum voted NO, so that doesn't absolve me; but two scums voting NO is extremely unlikely. That's why I was scumreading both you and Arta before mission 2, and now that it's proven at least one of you is town (unless rayn is scum), I don't understand why he is not scumreading the other. Interested on the gem BTW.
On November 06 2015 02:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Rels, why did you flip your Rayn read based on things that had already happened before you townread him initially? What made you think about him again? Your argument's revolved around things he should know, but no part of your argument was new to when you said he was definitely town.
On November 06 2015 02:18 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Like you went from calling him basically confirmed town to very suspicious in 3 hours without anything seemingly triggering you.
On November 06 2015 02:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Rels, why did you flip your Rayn read based on things that had already happened before you townread him initially? What made you think about him again? Your argument's revolved around things he should know, but no part of your argument was new to when you said he was definitely town.
I'm on phone so no quote: read my big post. The first line is something like "I thought he was confirmed because he made a very similar post about noobking in newbie XIII". But actually its super suspicious that he uses this game to prove that my case are boring, when my play D1 this game was boring. Now he defends himself saying "But its not THIS kind of boring!", when he clearly said in example of me being town " look how he's always looking for something new on noobking". I get that this is not very clear without quote; read my big post and the reactions after it to understand.
On November 06 2015 02:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Rels, why did you flip your Rayn read based on things that had already happened before you townread him initially? What made you think about him again? Your argument's revolved around things he should know, but no part of your argument was new to when you said he was definitely town.
I'm on phone so no quote: read my big post. The first line is something like "I thought he was confirmed because he made a very similar post about noobking in newbie XIII". But actually its super suspicious that he uses this game to prove that my case are boring, when my play D1 this game was boring. Now he defends himself saying "But its not THIS kind of boring!", when he clearly said in example of me being town " look how he's always looking for something new on noobking". I get that this is not very clear without quote; read my big post and the reactions after it to understand.
Yeah but what made you think about this? He hadn't said anything new since your last post.
On November 06 2015 02:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Rels, why did you flip your Rayn read based on things that had already happened before you townread him initially? What made you think about him again? Your argument's revolved around things he should know, but no part of your argument was new to when you said he was definitely town.
I'm on phone so no quote: read my big post. The first line is something like "I thought he was confirmed because he made a very similar post about noobking in newbie XIII". But actually its super suspicious that he uses this game to prove that my case are boring, when my play D1 this game was boring. Now he defends himself saying "But its not THIS kind of boring!", when he clearly said in example of me being town " look how he's always looking for something new on noobking". I get that this is not very clear without quote; read my big post and the reactions after it to understand.
Yeah but what made you think about this? He hadn't said anything new since your last post.
I don't know. I just thought about it and realized it didn't make sense to take as example a push of mine in one game, and forget another one in the same game that was the opposite.
So Rels ends with an "I don't know" which indicates it might not be a natural thought process, and mafia have to make something up here. Which lends this to being scum-indicative. He also fails to answer the question as to whether rayn did anything new or that he did anything new to change that read or not (Artanis' "he hadn't said anything new [for you to think] since your last post").
I think (???) rayn called him on this earlier but in any case this was a bit easier to follow.
And what is the scum motivation to change my rayn's read without him doing something new ?
On November 06 2015 00:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well he's gonna vote yes since we are all mafia, then we just don't send any of us into next missions and his town wins. EZPZ. Unless he wants to claim scum ofc..
On November 06 2015 00:35 Xatalos wrote: I guess I can see the logic if he thinks we're all scum on the mission?
He said if one of me / you were on mission 1 it's okay, because the other two are town, so he would know for sure who is scum. But if me AND you are on the mission, he wouldn't know for sure which one of us is scum. But then he also townreads everyone except for me/you/sl, so why would he need to "figure out which one of rayn/xatalosis mafia" in the first place?
On November 06 2015 00:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: and this points to kitaman being scum.
because i think the real reason was not to "not have both of xatalos/rayn on a mission" but instead have mafia on a mission -> kitaman.
This (assuming rayn didn't misread) actually further lends support to the Xatalos/(whoever)/Kita scum team. Or in the infintessimally small chance that I'm wrong on Xatalos, that Kita is scum without using any meta.
rayn is talking about Shockey in those quotes, so you're either considering: - shockey is scum which point to kita being scum according to rayn - shockey is town and that doesn't point to anything
On November 13 2015 23:33 Half the Sky wrote: That last thing by rayn shows something potentially fabricated by Kita and even if I cannot stand the former's way of working with people, his nitpickiness does ferret out key things like this.
I'm pretty sure rayn is talking about shockey in those quotes above, am I mistaken ?
On November 13 2015 23:37 sicklucker wrote: Ya I misread the artanis line. So ya you cant vote yes day 1 without claiming scum basically. so your vote does not really prove anything
Why ? According to this I could. Actually the reason I didn't vote on mission 1 was that I thought rayn was scum BTW.
On November 13 2015 23:33 Half the Sky wrote: That last thing by rayn shows something potentially fabricated by Kita and even if I cannot stand the former's way of working with people, his nitpickiness does ferret out key things like this.
I'm pretty sure rayn is talking about shockey in those quotes above, am I mistaken ?
On November 13 2015 23:37 sicklucker wrote: Ya I misread the artanis line. So ya you cant vote yes day 1 without claiming scum basically. so your vote does not really prove anything
Why ? According to this I could. Actually the reason I didn't vote on mission 1 was that I thought rayn was scum BTW.
well your reads are not really the point. scum will never go off there reads with the day one vote its too early. they may try to mold them but most people dont think that far ahead
Then why did you think I "cant vote yes day 1 without claiming scum basically" ?
On November 13 2015 01:00 Half the Sky wrote: sicklucker, you were mafia in Guardians with rayn, send him a link to the mafia qt for that game.
Now I have to go, and fight the customs battle at JFK. Christ I hate this airport.
i dont see how that relevant. like even if rayns not meta confirmed we have to pick one at some point to have a solid majority so its a good risk to take. theres 3 groups currenly with one mafia confirmed basicly. They are
me rayn,xata art , hts , rels * vivax , kita ,rels *
* assumes ryans town
Where does the second group comes from ?
arts weird logic idk. now that i think about it that makes little sense ask him
I don't get it. Why would you write something that you take from a potential scumread of yours (and if I got it, your stronger potential third scum) if you don't understand it / don't believe it's true ?
On November 13 2015 23:42 sicklucker wrote: Because voting yes day 1 did not line up with your reads...
But it does according to this chart made during D1: two townreads + 1 nullread. Can't remember if it was made before the nomination ended or after but it was around that period. So I don't see anything that would make you go "OH RELS VOTING YES WOULD SCREW YOU HERE" in that chart
On November 13 2015 23:46 sicklucker wrote: Like i dont really remember or care what your day one reads were since your probably scum and im never putting you on a team anyway in 1000 years. All i remembered was you scum read me ryan or both at the end and had no excuse to vote yes. It was also kind of expected to pass anyway
Yeah so: - you dug (I suppose it's spelled like that ?) out a chart to prove your point - the chart proved the opposite (that I could vote YES if I wanted to) - you posted your theory anyway It doens't make sense.
On November 12 2015 02:43 Rels wrote: Will have to reread Kita in case of failure, but assuming it confirms my townread on him, I think the team have to be one of this: Arta / rayn / Vivax Arta / rayn / Xata Arta / Xata / Vivax Basically, just don't ever pick those four players and we're OK.
Rels, I'm trying to follow your read between SL and Xata. On post number #2147, you state that my analysis on SL is good, inferring that you still have a mafia read on him. However, you list rayn and xata as the individuals on your "do not pick" list. Now you seem to be back on the antagonize SL side of things based on your "BUSTED" post. Could you explain your thought process a bit more?
Sure, mysterious non-player that post here sometimes. That post is part of the series of post I made with the assumption that SL was town for his NO vote. Here is the first post of that series:
On November 11 2015 08:03 Fidei86 wrote: Day 2 raynpelikoneet's Nomination (raynpelikoneet, kitaman, Rels, Vivax) Vote Result
Half the Sky - YES Xatalos - YES Artanis[Xp] - NO raynpelikoneet - YES ShoCkeyy - YES Rels - YES sicklucker - NO kitaman27 - YES Vivax - YES
MISSION IS APPROVED
raynpelikoneet, kitaman, Rels and Vivax will be embarking on Mission 2 Mission will be completed in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 11 November 2015.
Alright so either the game is won, or the team is infected. Let's go with the infiltrated theory since we won in the other case anyway. I know why SL voted NO, but I think Arta didn't scumread anyone before deadline. I need to check that.
Then when I came back to the thread I found a lot of suspicious things from SL. Here are some posts from that time:
On November 12 2015 20:39 sicklucker wrote: Hey rels alot has changed everyone thinks your scum how do you feel about that
Man you posted this exact post in the last game (Newbie XVI) where you were town; in that game, that post made me feel you were scum because you had this exact post in the previous game (Drams) where you were scum. I have the feeling you posted this just to show me "look I'm town, you made that mistake last game where you thought I was scum". Who is everyone ? Only counting Arta HTS and you where I am. I'm catching up though, did anyone else scumread me ?
On November 12 2015 02:37 Rels wrote: So the team is either: Arta / rayn / XXX (not HTS, they're never scums together) or Arta / Xata / Vivax (or Kita) I think it makes HTS town actually whatever the case is actually ... at least if the team fails.
you cant possibly think the only one to vote no is scum
Yes I can. More than that; I think it's scum indicative IF the consensus if the team will pass whatever someone's vote is AND the vote doen't match up with the read previous to the vote. Now Arta wasn't as clear cut as I thought, but only because he was super non commital. I really don't like how you didn't say much before the vote deadline when the consensus was the team will pass; and now you're like "WHAT GUYS WHY DID YOU ALL VOTE YES". If you were that sure the team would fail, you would have fought BEFORE the vote.
On November 12 2015 18:54 sicklucker wrote: tbh rels looks really town when hes mafia. What he does do as mafia is make up bullshit to suit his needs. I think hes very good as mafia. Hes a shit town player tho but I havent seen that shit townplay this game tbh
Before the fail mission: "yeah Rels is super right, for example in suggesting I was the fall guy in the first mission: he should be town". After the fail mission: "oh Rels is too right to be town this game, he's not that good". This is not an explanation. Why are you townreading HTS ? For a dumbtell you thought couldn't come from scum right ? Anything else ?
On November 12 2015 20:58 sicklucker wrote: Rels you rejected my town circle. me/shockey and you all had noms coming up. why not wait for them?
'cause I thought rayn was town and you were more likely scum than Xata. After the vote your NO vote looked townie, but the way you're acting right now is super scummy. WHAT YOU ARE SAYING MAKES NO SENSE BECAUSE: The only difference waiting would have made would be switch Superbia for Shockey. ATM I thought the team was very likely to be HTS / Arta / you or Xata. So what you are accusing me of doing is not logical.
On November 12 2015 20:58 Rels wrote: cool. Who were the "everyone" scumreading me you were talking about ? Cause I really feel like you're trying to create an atmosphere where Shockey would think "Oh shit can't include Rels since everybody scumreads him"
no im not making that up its literately everyone thats playing the game. me/art/hts
This games weird because half the people are afk or subs
So "everyone" is 3 people ?
The bolded line resumes my progression to scum!Xata after SL voted NO, then to scum!SL when I found he was being scummy.
On November 14 2015 01:29 Vivax wrote: I don't think I'll be pursuing further conversation with you, kita. I'm dead set on you being mafia, you are on me. I'm perfectly fine with just no-voting any future team with you in it, and so should you, this game isn't about lynching.
Just hope to catch you in another game where you're actually town.
HTS/me/Artanis/Coag ftw. Swap me for Shockey, or Xata if needed.
Btw I hardly see people considering putting Arta on a team, which I really don't get. 1. He looks townish, 2. He's good at resistance.
Have you read the first day carefully ? If yes, how likely do you think two scums voted NO to the first team ? What % would you give to that theory ?
On November 14 2015 01:29 Vivax wrote: I don't think I'll be pursuing further conversation with you, kita. I'm dead set on you being mafia, you are on me. I'm perfectly fine with just no-voting any future team with you in it, and so should you, this game isn't about lynching.
Just hope to catch you in another game where you're actually town.
HTS/me/Artanis/Coag ftw. Swap me for Shockey, or Xata if needed.
Btw I hardly see people considering putting Arta on a team, which I really don't get. 1. He looks townish, 2. He's good at resistance.
Have you read the first day carefully ? If yes, how likely do you think two scums voted NO to the first team ? What % would you give to that theory ?
100%
Monsieur, I don't dare asking you for but the smallest bit of explanation ?
On November 14 2015 01:45 Vivax wrote: Oh you mean the mission issued by Xata. We know for a fact that at least one spy voted no. I can't say more than that with my current knowledge. I know you somehow want me to accept you being on a team but that's not gonna happen by trying to let me spew some percentages.
I don't dare to ask but for the smallest opinion after you read it ?
Leaving work. Vivax please at least state if you think it's more likely there is one or two scums voting NO on the first team after you read that part. Or zero or three for that matter (hint: one of these answers is not possible).
On November 14 2015 01:54 Vivax wrote: We have time cause this team won't be passing tonight, let me go through this SL stuff kita wants me to read then I'll do one thing at a time before I get into unproductive spamming mode.
I really enjoyed being able to easily find things I said in my filter but that will only work if I stop spamming.
Your servile tone pleases me, Rels. You might make a good butler one day.
You want to know my secret ? I say "I don't dare" WHILE DARING AT THE SAME TIME Will be waiting for your vote analysis with much anticipation. Don't dodge me bro
SHOCKEY can you say what was the team you wanted to nominate pretty please ? Or are you purposefully waiting for the vote to be over before stating it ? COAG please do stuff.
Yo folks. Sry I don't have time to play due to this fucking attack. My take on the vote:
On November 14 2015 09:11 Tictock wrote: Day 3 ShoCkeyy's Nomination (Shockey, Vivax, Half the Sky, sicklucker) Vote Result Half the Sky - YES Xatalos - NO Artanis[Xp] - YES Coagulation - NO ShoCkeyy - YES Rels - NO sicklucker - YES kitaman27 - NO Vivax - NO
MISSION IS REJECTED
Day 3 Rels's Nomination Phase Phase will end in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 14 November 2015.
This was a bit rushed as I'm posting via mobile, will fix it up later. Not all votes were sent to me so if there was a mistake please PM myself or Fidei and we will get it fixed asap.
Apologies for the delay
Vivax could have voted YES to a team containing himself. Hell, he said he would vote YES but didn't for some reason. I think that makes him confirmed town. Vivax, name a team and I'll probably nominate it when I come back tonight. I didn't read anything from today so this might be stupid but whatever. Anyway I'm with my family so see you later.
On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote: Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide.
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote: Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide.
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
Hmm, so now you're saying me or rayn failed the second mission? o.O
Yep. Vivax could have won the game right there and didn't. He was here at deadline, when apparently it was super clear multiple people pushed for the YES. If he's scum, he let a chance to win right there fly by him. I will consider him confirmed town unless something drastic happens. So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. Probably rayn.
On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote: Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide.
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
im pretty sure im vivax's strongest townread now and its very logical. Do you live in paris?
K HTS just slipped right there. I purposefully did the same thing Arta did when he picked rayn's team to gather reactions. The normal reaction of someone scumreading me should be: I'm scum because the team goes against my reads and I dedouaned myself from nominating a team. People thinking that should be thinking Arta is scum, or at least suspicious 'cause (1) he did the exact same thing and (2) I'm putting him in my team. Here is what HTS did:
On November 15 2015 06:50 Half the Sky wrote: On mobile, bear with me please.
On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote: Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide.
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
im pretty sure im vivax's strongest townread now and its very logical. Do you live in paris?
The answer to that question is yes, we've chatted out of game
Aside, overall I feel this is a WIFOM attempt to (perhaps?) eventually get on someone's team and eventually fail a mission.
I will explain why in his world, this proposal does not make sense from town side. (All references at bottom of post so you can see context and judge for yourselves.)
From town side.
Rels was hard scumreading Artanis and in his world one of Artanis or myself has to be mafia. He is proposing a team with both of us on it.
He was asking me multiple times (well at least once I know I recall) why I was townreading Artanis. He concluded that one of us has to be scum. Now? He places both of us on the team.
Second he hard townreads rayn. Now? He leaves him off. Not as sharp as the first point, but quite curious given prior reads.
Furthermore he pushes the line that it's not possible that two scums voted no, and then Artanis and I having both voted yes, he puts us both up. (I don't believe I misunderstood this.)
What changed? (of course, when you can answer, I understand obv not right away)
Overall, ironically the team he's put up is a clean team, but seeing as town have to get three missions passed to win and scum only need to fail one more, I have a strong sense of WIFOM/disassociation/tinfoil/whatever you want to call it about so another scummer (or him?) can slip through on a later mission (Kita's or someone else slipping up).
Follow the read progression folks.
References: 1 Scumreading Artanis v myself Rels' filter page 20/thread page 127-128 (posts 2540/2552) Rels' filter page 21/thread pages 129 on and off through 138 (posts 2572, 2638, 2639, 2640, 2654, 2667, 2758) Rels' filter page 22/thread page 139 (posts 2766) - trying to convince Artanis he's scum)
2 Townread of rayn Rels' filter page 22/thread page 139-140 (post 2769/2773/2775/2777/2779/2782/2783) - Artanis' post on familiarity is valid as Rels has played 3 games with rayn (SOTW, Newbie 13, Drams) at least 2 he was abrasive, warned in Drams (which rayn admitted to).
3 Rels pushing the two scums voting no line Rels' filter page 23/thread page 143 (post 2844) - he was pushing that well before that page before but that was the latest he was pushing that idea
Rels is scum 'cause he nominated a WIFOM team that was against his read. But the team is clean, so Arta, who did the same thing, is town.
Second thing, kita has tried to get HTS talking about things about Arta and I. HTS didn't answer in details to these unless I missed it. But now that she sees the opportunity to both: - explain how I am even scummier than before - push people to vote YES she's putting the effort to do it.
Third thing, town is one failure away from losing, and she's OK voting YES to a team nominated by her scumread.
TLDR 1. Arta does something, he's town; Rels does the same thing, Rels is scum and Arta is still town 2. She's putting the effort to convince even more people I'm scum. 3. She's OK voting YES to a team nominated by her scumread.
Now this doesn't mean Arta is scum by itself; but since HTS is OK putting herself out of teams only if Arta is instead, there is a relationship. As to why Arta is scum, see kita's big post about him.
On November 15 2015 07:26 sicklucker wrote: we should all vote no to this and see who votes yes. ill put up pretty much the same team next anyway. more info the better and artanis can still be scum. Dont say you agree if you agree ill vote no
In contrast, this is a townie reaction from anyone townreading SL.
On November 15 2015 07:26 sicklucker wrote: we should all vote no to this and see who votes yes. ill put up pretty much the same team next anyway. more info the better and artanis can still be scum. Dont say you agree if you agree ill vote no
I will be very honest, I really feel this team is clean.
But if you want me to downvote this team, I can. I definitely trust you and Vivax and that will put the 5th mission in my hands (assuming we all downvote whatever Kita puts up) so I can go either way on this.
I can also do one final check on Artanis as well prior to upvoting.
On November 15 2015 07:31 Half the Sky wrote: I don't know what you mean by "don't say you'll agree/if you agree"
But if it is trust you need me to resolve and you're tinfoiling me, then I'll downvote it for you. I think that might be the issue here.
I feel HTS is like: "SL I know I slipped by trying to get this team passed please still be my friend." Not a ounce of tinfoil in her mind that just maybe SL is scum. She has decided what the team was and she s sticking to it.
On November 15 2015 22:15 Vivax wrote: I need to correct one part of the argument: Rayn posted the thing about him not pushing SL after the mission failed, not after it was passed. I misread the time there.
On November 08 2015 01:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: Xatalos who do you actually think is most likely to be scum rn? I don't like the "this guy is scum and then two of these five other people".
On November 08 2015 01:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you are going to put both Rels & Shockeyy there you have to explain why my analysis on them does not make sense.
This might be semantics/a mistake but asking Xata to explain why he would scumread Shockey shouldn't make sense from rayn's perspective, he should be glad of Xata accepting Shockey being scum.
On November 10 2015 00:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Probably not since all of sl/shockeyy/hts/artanis are gonna vote no, i assume you are gonna vote no too.
Half the Sky - YES Xatalos - YES Artanis[Xp] - NO raynpelikoneet - YES ShoCkeyy - YES Rels - YES sicklucker - NO kitaman27 - YES Vivax - YES
So the mission fails. Only SL and Artanis vote no as predicted. HTS and shockey vote yes.
What happens afterwards is that rayn commits suicide by host for some reason. But that at a time where he could have done this:
Go wtf on the 2 yes votes and immediately start looking for the mafia on that wagon.
Given what he said about those voting no, rayn here would have immediately gone for a team of HTS/Shockey/??? Xatalos!
Cause SL voting no here and Xata voting yes should have immediately put Xata into the scummy corner for him.
But that wasn't possible cause then the mission wouldn't have failed.
So the only conclusion to be gained from this mission is that either rayn, Xata or kita were mafia, which would have made it impossible for HTS and shockey to be mafia too.
Instead of thinking logically here, rayn decided to throw a tantrum of rage on purpose, cause the only logical conclusion to be had was that he was dead wrong and that he would look much worse.
This is good. For HTS / Arta to make sense, rayn have to be scum, but I couldn't see why a mafia would get modkilled. This could be why.
On November 15 2015 22:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote: So I was typing this as you rudely started seeding doubt.
Anyway, game is already solved. Kita is clearly mafia for creating narratives on both me and Vivax rather than actual cases, actually construing things that are towny to make it look mafia. He's also been extremely disconnected from the thread, just doing his own thing and interacting once or twice at most before just discontinuing and going back doing his own thing.
Rels is mafia for doing things he accused me of. He made a team he doesn't even believe in himself with two of his scumreads on it, as well as the fact that he's been pushing everyone in the start based on trivial stuff. He also couldn't explain why he flipped on Rayn very well. The team he sent in is clearly WIFOM and it means nothing as there's 0 chance he actually expects it to go through, with everyone and their mum scumreading him. It might actually make it more likely that everyone on there is town so that SL can wifom himself into adding a scum (which appears to be working).
SL clearly isn't scum for how much he's tryharding and struggling to put on a team as well as suggesting not to put himself on a mission to do it by mission 5. SL doesn't try hard unless he feels he has to and if he was mafia he really didn't need to at this point.
Rayn is probably town due to the way he was interacting with people and actually held back at the start, but eventually caved in and went full you-aren't-being-logical-so-you-must-be-scum-townrayn. The way he behaved aligned up exactly with how I'd expect townrayn to behave.
Xata is scum due to everything HtS has said. Being very vague in general, not properly evaluating HtS and also PoE. SL and Rayn probably aren't scum so he has to be.
I will be yayvoting the team, especially since the only semi-doubtful member of my 6-person town team isn't in there, and I just don't think Rels actually expects this mission to have any chance of going through.
And now Arta is pushing people to vote YES with overexplanation. This is making soooo much sense.
On November 16 2015 00:50 Rels wrote: K HTS just slipped right there. I purposefully did the same thing Arta did when he picked rayn's team to gather reactions. The normal reaction of someone scumreading me should be: I'm scum because the team goes against my reads and I dedouaned myself from nominating a team. People thinking that should be thinking Arta is scum, or at least suspicious 'cause (1) he did the exact same thing and (2) I'm putting him in my team. Here is what HTS did:
On November 15 2015 06:50 Half the Sky wrote: On mobile, bear with me please.
On November 15 2015 05:36 sicklucker wrote:
On November 15 2015 04:08 Rels wrote:
On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote: Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide.
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
im pretty sure im vivax's strongest townread now and its very logical. Do you live in paris?
The answer to that question is yes, we've chatted out of game
Aside, overall I feel this is a WIFOM attempt to (perhaps?) eventually get on someone's team and eventually fail a mission.
I will explain why in his world, this proposal does not make sense from town side. (All references at bottom of post so you can see context and judge for yourselves.)
From town side.
Rels was hard scumreading Artanis and in his world one of Artanis or myself has to be mafia. He is proposing a team with both of us on it.
He was asking me multiple times (well at least once I know I recall) why I was townreading Artanis. He concluded that one of us has to be scum. Now? He places both of us on the team.
Second he hard townreads rayn. Now? He leaves him off. Not as sharp as the first point, but quite curious given prior reads.
Furthermore he pushes the line that it's not possible that two scums voted no, and then Artanis and I having both voted yes, he puts us both up. (I don't believe I misunderstood this.)
What changed? (of course, when you can answer, I understand obv not right away)
Overall, ironically the team he's put up is a clean team, but seeing as town have to get three missions passed to win and scum only need to fail one more, I have a strong sense of WIFOM/disassociation/tinfoil/whatever you want to call it about so another scummer (or him?) can slip through on a later mission (Kita's or someone else slipping up).
Follow the read progression folks.
References: 1 Scumreading Artanis v myself Rels' filter page 20/thread page 127-128 (posts 2540/2552) Rels' filter page 21/thread pages 129 on and off through 138 (posts 2572, 2638, 2639, 2640, 2654, 2667, 2758) Rels' filter page 22/thread page 139 (posts 2766) - trying to convince Artanis he's scum)
2 Townread of rayn Rels' filter page 22/thread page 139-140 (post 2769/2773/2775/2777/2779/2782/2783) - Artanis' post on familiarity is valid as Rels has played 3 games with rayn (SOTW, Newbie 13, Drams) at least 2 he was abrasive, warned in Drams (which rayn admitted to).
3 Rels pushing the two scums voting no line Rels' filter page 23/thread page 143 (post 2844) - he was pushing that well before that page before but that was the latest he was pushing that idea
Rels is scum 'cause he nominated a WIFOM team that was against his read. But the team is clean, so Arta, who did the same thing, is town.
Second thing, kita has tried to get HTS talking about things about Arta and I. HTS didn't answer in details to these unless I missed it. But now that she sees the opportunity to both: - explain how I am even scummier than before - push people to vote YES she's putting the effort to do it.
Third thing, town is one failure away from losing, and she's OK voting YES to a team nominated by her scumread.
TLDR 1. Arta does something, he's town; Rels does the same thing, Rels is scum and Arta is still town 2. She's putting the effort to convince even more people I'm scum. 3. She's OK voting YES to a team nominated by her scumread.
Now this doesn't mean Arta is scum by itself; but since HTS is OK putting herself out of teams only if Arta is instead, there is a relationship. As to why Arta is scum, see kita's big post about him.
You're cherry picking a LOT of stuff here. Artanis had a response to what Kita said and why Kita was guilty of framing that in a mafia lens and not seeing the townie half of that.
I am saying that what you are doing if taken seriously makes no sense for a town standpoint.
As mafia you have every incentive to try and fool people when you're up 2-0 so you can find a way to slip one of yourselves in a team.
Independent of whatever you pick, there's nothing wrong with looking at the people independently and the way they have played the game so far and reach a different conclusion on what you are trying to do with that information. Additionally, you fail to consider the conversation that I had with sicklucker before the team was formalised.
Such selective reasoning, it's pathetic. VERY mafia motivated here.
Cant be mafia motivated since I'm posting it ... you tried to push your victory too fast before backpedaling immediately. Sry. =X At least that's what is making sense to me. I know a few days ago I thought you were town 'cause I thought rayn couldn't be scum. But the way you tried to at the same time: - put dirt on me for the team I nominated - push people to vote YES on the team I nominated doesn't make sense from a town perspective.
On November 15 2015 22:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote: So I was typing this as you rudely started seeding doubt.
Anyway, game is already solved. Kita is clearly mafia for creating narratives on both me and Vivax rather than actual cases, actually construing things that are towny to make it look mafia. He's also been extremely disconnected from the thread, just doing his own thing and interacting once or twice at most before just discontinuing and going back doing his own thing.
Rels is mafia for doing things he accused me of. He made a team he doesn't even believe in himself with two of his scumreads on it, as well as the fact that he's been pushing everyone in the start based on trivial stuff. He also couldn't explain why he flipped on Rayn very well. The team he sent in is clearly WIFOM and it means nothing as there's 0 chance he actually expects it to go through, with everyone and their mum scumreading him. It might actually make it more likely that everyone on there is town so that SL can wifom himself into adding a scum (which appears to be working).
SL clearly isn't scum for how much he's tryharding and struggling to put on a team as well as suggesting not to put himself on a mission to do it by mission 5. SL doesn't try hard unless he feels he has to and if he was mafia he really didn't need to at this point.
Rayn is probably town due to the way he was interacting with people and actually held back at the start, but eventually caved in and went full you-aren't-being-logical-so-you-must-be-scum-townrayn. The way he behaved aligned up exactly with how I'd expect townrayn to behave.
Xata is scum due to everything HtS has said. Being very vague in general, not properly evaluating HtS and also PoE. SL and Rayn probably aren't scum so he has to be.
I will be yayvoting the team, especially since the only semi-doubtful member of my 6-person town team isn't in there, and I just don't think Rels actually expects this mission to have any chance of going through.
And now Arta is pushing people to vote YES with overexplanation. This is making soooo much sense.
Not overexplanation, but re-emphasis, this is just a summary of all of his reads of the game to another player who has replaced in and may not have grasped everything he's absorbed in a shorter amount of time.
This is absolutely pathetic from you, how you are re-framing this from an exclusively mafia lens. If you are going to call this mafia, explain why the reads themselves (or his bases) are mafia.
The reads are just vague, as everything than Arta did all game. In particular, thanks, I think I spotted a rayn contradiction, where before Vivax' posts he was like "yeah rayn is 100% town", after he was "mm what you are saying makes me doubt"; and he claims to have written this post before reading the Vivax' stuff, but the paragraph on rayn is "rayn is probably town". Let's check that shall we ?
On November 14 2015 20:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Oh and Rayn was definitely town. Everything about him just said town. Typical tunneling for people not making sense and getting angry over it.
His post:
On November 15 2015 22:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote: So I was typing this as you rudely started seeding doubt.
[...]
Rayn is probably town due to the way he was interacting with people and actually held back at the start, but eventually caved in and went full you-aren't-being-logical-so-you-must-be-scum-townrayn. The way he behaved aligned up exactly with how I'd expect townrayn to behave.
OK he says he "was typing this", so it's plausible from either alignment he corrected his rayn's read before posting. Nothing to see here.
On November 16 2015 01:02 Vivax wrote: Challenge of the day: HTS vs Rels.
I think early game holds answers to this quest.
Like I said before, disassociation. If you don't believe Artanis' explanation or my reasoning for voting the team in, you'll see endgame he and Kita made quite the play, all they needed was one person up there, and IIRC both rayn (in your world) and Xata had voted themselves in.
The way you are not re evaluating since mission 2 is revelative.
On November 16 2015 01:19 Half the Sky wrote: I very well probably could get in trouble for what I just said in 3117, but eh, at this point I'll just deal with it post-game.
Anyways Rels, please, it's a damn summary, not "vague" (3115), you continue to frame that to your liking.
I'm saying like it seems to me. Arta is reacting to stuff, he has a very thread acceptable opinion on anyone, even showing some suspicions on rayn when Vivax starts to throw some. Coag has not posted anything useful since replacing in. You tried to push your team with either Arta in it if people wouldn't accept you or Coag. You were even OK voting YES, before SL comes and say stuff, and you're like "Oh no worries I'll do what you want plzplzplz trust me".
On November 16 2015 01:26 Half the Sky wrote: I was okay voting yes because of reads on the people you nominated INDEPENDENT of who nominated them.
What I found hilarious is that AS YOU NOMINATED YOUR TEAM you quoted a team that I had previously selected (team of 4 and team of 5) and then you swapped my name in for sicklucker (for whatever reason) and now you are turning that argument around and trying to say I'm mafia for it. How do you say I'm being unreasonable saying I would upvote a team with 3 people I would create the team from PLUS MYSELF?!??!?!? (3051)
I separated that from your probable intention with your nomination. And that's why I made the comment I did.
It is unreasonnable 'cause you should have been "wait Rels is 100% scum, maybe he's pushing for victory" which is what SL did. But you're right, it was targeted specifically at you, 'cause the kita's post saying "now whatever I say doesn't matter since I'm scum" stuck in my head. You're playing a game of absolutes, which is something mafia does when chosing their fake reads.
BTW I'm pretty sure you said you would do an comparaison between Kita's play this game and in Personality. Did you do it before deciding he was scum ? If not can you do it ? If yes, link please.
On November 16 2015 01:39 Half the Sky wrote: I drew a starting point for that meta comparison, but I never did finish it. There were a few points that made me wary as I started reading Personality that I am pretty sure I put into that post.
I have to afk now anyhow but that is something I can continue if it clarifies things for people.
I would love you to finish that comparaison post then. Cause I have the inverse sentiment.
On November 15 2015 22:15 Vivax wrote: I need to correct one part of the argument: Rayn posted the thing about him not pushing SL after the mission failed, not after it was passed. I misread the time there.
On November 08 2015 01:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: Xatalos who do you actually think is most likely to be scum rn? I don't like the "this guy is scum and then two of these five other people".
Three people, most likely to be mafia, ok?
On November 08 2015 01:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you are going to put both Rels & Shockeyy there you have to explain why my analysis on them does not make sense.
This might be semantics/a mistake but asking Xata to explain why he would scumread Shockey shouldn't make sense from rayn's perspective, he should be glad of Xata accepting Shockey being scum.
Then we proceed to this:
On November 09 2015 23:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##Nominate: raynpelikoneet, kitaman, Rels, Superbia
On November 10 2015 00:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Probably not since all of sl/shockeyy/hts/artanis are gonna vote no, i assume you are gonna vote no too.
Half the Sky - YES Xatalos - YES Artanis[Xp] - NO raynpelikoneet - YES ShoCkeyy - YES Rels - YES sicklucker - NO kitaman27 - YES Vivax - YES
So the mission fails. Only SL and Artanis vote no as predicted. HTS and shockey vote yes.
What happens afterwards is that rayn commits suicide by host for some reason. But that at a time where he could have done this:
Go wtf on the 2 yes votes and immediately start looking for the mafia on that wagon.
Given what he said about those voting no, rayn here would have immediately gone for a team of HTS/Shockey/??? Xatalos!
Cause SL voting no here and Xata voting yes should have immediately put Xata into the scummy corner for him.
But that wasn't possible cause then the mission wouldn't have failed.
So the only conclusion to be gained from this mission is that either rayn, Xata or kita were mafia, which would have made it impossible for HTS and shockey to be mafia too.
Instead of thinking logically here, rayn decided to throw a tantrum of rage on purpose, cause the only logical conclusion to be had was that he was dead wrong and that he would look much worse.
This is good. For HTS / Arta to make sense, rayn have to be scum, but I couldn't see why a mafia would get modkilled. This could be why.
Ehh as much as I'd like this to be true, I'm still not convinced that rayn + HTS makes sense. Like he attacks her and other people up to the point where she feels like she has to make a post-game post about how toixc he is, only for them to show up at endgame and be like "lol jk we're best buds!".
I'll re-read everything to see if it could make sense if one of them were mafia individually.
I agree. But it just makes sense given the votes and team results. If HTS is not scum then what ? rayn / Arta / SL ? rayn / Arta / Xata ? Cause Vivax has to be town here. So each time, two scums in the first team. That makes much less sense than rayn / HTS faking being angry at each other + rayn being angry 'cause his fake reads were proven false.
On November 15 2015 22:15 Vivax wrote: I need to correct one part of the argument: Rayn posted the thing about him not pushing SL after the mission failed, not after it was passed. I misread the time there.
On November 08 2015 01:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: Xatalos who do you actually think is most likely to be scum rn? I don't like the "this guy is scum and then two of these five other people".
Three people, most likely to be mafia, ok?
On November 08 2015 01:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you are going to put both Rels & Shockeyy there you have to explain why my analysis on them does not make sense.
This might be semantics/a mistake but asking Xata to explain why he would scumread Shockey shouldn't make sense from rayn's perspective, he should be glad of Xata accepting Shockey being scum.
Then we proceed to this:
On November 09 2015 23:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##Nominate: raynpelikoneet, kitaman, Rels, Superbia
On November 10 2015 00:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Probably not since all of sl/shockeyy/hts/artanis are gonna vote no, i assume you are gonna vote no too.
Half the Sky - YES Xatalos - YES Artanis[Xp] - NO raynpelikoneet - YES ShoCkeyy - YES Rels - YES sicklucker - NO kitaman27 - YES Vivax - YES
So the mission fails. Only SL and Artanis vote no as predicted. HTS and shockey vote yes.
What happens afterwards is that rayn commits suicide by host for some reason. But that at a time where he could have done this:
Go wtf on the 2 yes votes and immediately start looking for the mafia on that wagon.
Given what he said about those voting no, rayn here would have immediately gone for a team of HTS/Shockey/??? Xatalos!
Cause SL voting no here and Xata voting yes should have immediately put Xata into the scummy corner for him.
But that wasn't possible cause then the mission wouldn't have failed.
So the only conclusion to be gained from this mission is that either rayn, Xata or kita were mafia, which would have made it impossible for HTS and shockey to be mafia too.
Instead of thinking logically here, rayn decided to throw a tantrum of rage on purpose, cause the only logical conclusion to be had was that he was dead wrong and that he would look much worse.
This is good. For HTS / Arta to make sense, rayn have to be scum, but I couldn't see why a mafia would get modkilled. This could be why.
Ehh as much as I'd like this to be true, I'm still not convinced that rayn + HTS makes sense. Like he attacks her and other people up to the point where she feels like she has to make a post-game post about how toixc he is, only for them to show up at endgame and be like "lol jk we're best buds!".
I'll re-read everything to see if it could make sense if one of them were mafia individually.
I agree. But it just makes sense given the votes and team results. If HTS is not scum then what ? rayn / Arta / SL ? rayn / Arta / Xata ? Cause Vivax has to be town here. So each time, two scums in the first team. That makes much less sense than rayn / HTS faking being angry at each other + rayn being angry 'cause his fake reads were proven false.
Well at least with rayn/Arta/Xata you have the weird
Xata: Hey it's my time to nominate. You wanna be on the team Arta? Arta: Naw it's all good bro.
and
Arta: I'm up and you're my strongest town read rayn. Mission time? rayn: lulz lets nominate Rels instead for "information" Arta: Sure thing!
and
rayn: My turn! So now I can bring Arta along for realz. rayn: Actually, I'll just nominate whoever kita says instead
True. But what do you think of these ?
On November 16 2015 00:50 Rels wrote: K HTS just slipped right there. I purposefully did the same thing Arta did when he picked rayn's team to gather reactions. The normal reaction of someone scumreading me should be: I'm scum because the team goes against my reads and I dedouaned myself from nominating a team. People thinking that should be thinking Arta is scum, or at least suspicious 'cause (1) he did the exact same thing and (2) I'm putting him in my team. Here is what HTS did:
On November 15 2015 06:50 Half the Sky wrote: On mobile, bear with me please.
On November 15 2015 05:36 sicklucker wrote:
On November 15 2015 04:08 Rels wrote:
On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote: Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide.
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
im pretty sure im vivax's strongest townread now and its very logical. Do you live in paris?
The answer to that question is yes, we've chatted out of game
Aside, overall I feel this is a WIFOM attempt to (perhaps?) eventually get on someone's team and eventually fail a mission.
I will explain why in his world, this proposal does not make sense from town side. (All references at bottom of post so you can see context and judge for yourselves.)
From town side.
Rels was hard scumreading Artanis and in his world one of Artanis or myself has to be mafia. He is proposing a team with both of us on it.
He was asking me multiple times (well at least once I know I recall) why I was townreading Artanis. He concluded that one of us has to be scum. Now? He places both of us on the team.
Second he hard townreads rayn. Now? He leaves him off. Not as sharp as the first point, but quite curious given prior reads.
Furthermore he pushes the line that it's not possible that two scums voted no, and then Artanis and I having both voted yes, he puts us both up. (I don't believe I misunderstood this.)
What changed? (of course, when you can answer, I understand obv not right away)
Overall, ironically the team he's put up is a clean team, but seeing as town have to get three missions passed to win and scum only need to fail one more, I have a strong sense of WIFOM/disassociation/tinfoil/whatever you want to call it about so another scummer (or him?) can slip through on a later mission (Kita's or someone else slipping up).
Follow the read progression folks.
References: 1 Scumreading Artanis v myself Rels' filter page 20/thread page 127-128 (posts 2540/2552) Rels' filter page 21/thread pages 129 on and off through 138 (posts 2572, 2638, 2639, 2640, 2654, 2667, 2758) Rels' filter page 22/thread page 139 (posts 2766) - trying to convince Artanis he's scum)
2 Townread of rayn Rels' filter page 22/thread page 139-140 (post 2769/2773/2775/2777/2779/2782/2783) - Artanis' post on familiarity is valid as Rels has played 3 games with rayn (SOTW, Newbie 13, Drams) at least 2 he was abrasive, warned in Drams (which rayn admitted to).
3 Rels pushing the two scums voting no line Rels' filter page 23/thread page 143 (post 2844) - he was pushing that well before that page before but that was the latest he was pushing that idea
Rels is scum 'cause he nominated a WIFOM team that was against his read. But the team is clean, so Arta, who did the same thing, is town.
Second thing, kita has tried to get HTS talking about things about Arta and I. HTS didn't answer in details to these unless I missed it. But now that she sees the opportunity to both: - explain how I am even scummier than before - push people to vote YES she's putting the effort to do it.
Third thing, town is one failure away from losing, and she's OK voting YES to a team nominated by her scumread.
TLDR 1. Arta does something, he's town; Rels does the same thing, Rels is scum and Arta is still town 2. She's putting the effort to convince even more people I'm scum. 3. She's OK voting YES to a team nominated by her scumread.
Now this doesn't mean Arta is scum by itself; but since HTS is OK putting herself out of teams only if Arta is instead, there is a relationship. As to why Arta is scum, see kita's big post about him.
On November 15 2015 07:26 sicklucker wrote: we should all vote no to this and see who votes yes. ill put up pretty much the same team next anyway. more info the better and artanis can still be scum. Dont say you agree if you agree ill vote no
I will be very honest, I really feel this team is clean.
But if you want me to downvote this team, I can. I definitely trust you and Vivax and that will put the 5th mission in my hands (assuming we all downvote whatever Kita puts up) so I can go either way on this.
I can also do one final check on Artanis as well prior to upvoting.
On November 15 2015 07:31 Half the Sky wrote: I don't know what you mean by "don't say you'll agree/if you agree"
But if it is trust you need me to resolve and you're tinfoiling me, then I'll downvote it for you. I think that might be the issue here.
I feel HTS is like: "SL I know I slipped by trying to get this team passed please still be my friend." Not a ounce of tinfoil in her mind that just maybe SL is scum. She has decided what the team was and she s sticking to it.
On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote: Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide.
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
Hmm, so now you're saying me or rayn failed the second mission? o.O
Yep. Vivax could have won the game right there and didn't. He was here at deadline, when apparently it was super clear multiple people pushed for the YES. If he's scum, he let a chance to win right there fly by him. I will consider him confirmed town unless something drastic happens. So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. Probably rayn.
Just to be clear, do you still feel this was true or was it something you were pushing to "trap" HTS?
No I think it's true. If Vivax is scum, he potentially lost the game yesterday.
On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote: Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide.
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
Hmm, so now you're saying me or rayn failed the second mission? o.O
Yep. Vivax could have won the game right there and didn't. He was here at deadline, when apparently it was super clear multiple people pushed for the YES. If he's scum, he let a chance to win right there fly by him. I will consider him confirmed town unless something drastic happens. So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. Probably rayn.
Just to be clear, do you still feel this was true or was it something you were pushing to "trap" HTS?
No I think it's true. If Vivax is scum, he potentially lost the game yesterday.
"Vivax is confirmed town because he had the chance to win the game and he voted no."
"Kita could be scum because he had the chance to win the game and he voted no, but ....?"
What am I missing here, especially considering you had a town read on me and a scum read on vivix prior to the voting results?
Where do I say you could be scum ? I'm talking about vivax cause I was scumreading him, so realizing he has to be town changes is a change. No change on you
On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote: Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide.
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
Hmm, so now you're saying me or rayn failed the second mission? o.O
Yep. Vivax could have won the game right there and didn't. He was here at deadline, when apparently it was super clear multiple people pushed for the YES. If he's scum, he let a chance to win right there fly by him. I will consider him confirmed town unless something drastic happens. So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. Probably rayn.
Just to be clear, do you still feel this was true or was it something you were pushing to "trap" HTS?
No I think it's true. If Vivax is scum, he potentially lost the game yesterday.
"Vivax is confirmed town because he had the chance to win the game and he voted no."
"Kita could be scum because he had the chance to win the game and he voted no, but ....?"
What am I missing here, especially considering you had a town read on me and a scum read on vivix prior to the voting results?
Where do I say you could be scum ? I'm talking about vivax cause I was scumreading him, so realizing he has to be town changes is a change. No change on you
On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote: Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide.
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
Hmm, so now you're saying me or rayn failed the second mission? o.O
Yep. Vivax could have won the game right there and didn't. He was here at deadline, when apparently it was super clear multiple people pushed for the YES. If he's scum, he let a chance to win right there fly by him. I will consider him confirmed town unless something drastic happens. So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. Probably rayn.
Oh yeah. Yes, Vivax is 99% confirmed town when you're not by that NO vote, since he was on the team and you were not. If Vivax is scum, there is a confirmed mafia a the team; if you're scum, there isn't a confirmed mafia in the team.
On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote: Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide.
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
Hmm, so now you're saying me or rayn failed the second mission? o.O
Yep. Vivax could have won the game right there and didn't. He was here at deadline, when apparently it was super clear multiple people pushed for the YES. If he's scum, he let a chance to win right there fly by him. I will consider him confirmed town unless something drastic happens. So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. Probably rayn.
Just to be clear, do you still feel this was true or was it something you were pushing to "trap" HTS?
No I think it's true. If Vivax is scum, he potentially lost the game yesterday.
"Vivax is confirmed town because he had the chance to win the game and he voted no."
"Kita could be scum because he had the chance to win the game and he voted no, but ....?"
What am I missing here, especially considering you had a town read on me and a scum read on vivix prior to the voting results?
Where do I say you could be scum ? I'm talking about vivax cause I was scumreading him, so realizing he has to be town changes is a change. No change on you
"So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. "
Since you say vivax is confirmed town, why couldn't he be a mafia player who was unsure whether the votes would pass and wanted to play it safe?
On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote: Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide.
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
Hmm, so now you're saying me or rayn failed the second mission? o.O
Yep. Vivax could have won the game right there and didn't. He was here at deadline, when apparently it was super clear multiple people pushed for the YES. If he's scum, he let a chance to win right there fly by him. I will consider him confirmed town unless something drastic happens. So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. Probably rayn.
Reading EOD it seemed that the team was going to be accepted. Do you disagree ?
If you think Vivax might be scum after this, you also think the team had a chance to not be accepted without Vivax' vote right ? And you also think his teammates probably voted YES ?
On November 15 2015 04:23 kitaman27 wrote: [quote]
Hmm, so now you're saying me or rayn failed the second mission? o.O
Yep. Vivax could have won the game right there and didn't. He was here at deadline, when apparently it was super clear multiple people pushed for the YES. If he's scum, he let a chance to win right there fly by him. I will consider him confirmed town unless something drastic happens. So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. Probably rayn.
Just to be clear, do you still feel this was true or was it something you were pushing to "trap" HTS?
No I think it's true. If Vivax is scum, he potentially lost the game yesterday.
"Vivax is confirmed town because he had the chance to win the game and he voted no."
"Kita could be scum because he had the chance to win the game and he voted no, but ....?"
What am I missing here, especially considering you had a town read on me and a scum read on vivix prior to the voting results?
Where do I say you could be scum ? I'm talking about vivax cause I was scumreading him, so realizing he has to be town changes is a change. No change on you
"So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. "
Since you say vivax is confirmed town, why couldn't he be a mafia player who was unsure whether the votes would pass and wanted to play it safe?
Cause of this:
On November 16 2015 00:35 Rels wrote:
On November 15 2015 04:23 kitaman27 wrote:
On November 15 2015 04:08 Rels wrote:
On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote: Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide.
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
Hmm, so now you're saying me or rayn failed the second mission? o.O
Yep. Vivax could have won the game right there and didn't. He was here at deadline, when apparently it was super clear multiple people pushed for the YES. If he's scum, he let a chance to win right there fly by him. I will consider him confirmed town unless something drastic happens. So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. Probably rayn.
Reading EOD it seemed that the team was going to be accepted. Do you disagree ?
Well the real reason I'm asking is because Xata voted no, but you don't apply that reasoning to him, but I guess #3143 makes sense now that you explained it.
On November 17 2015 08:00 sicklucker wrote: I decided to go for the win here because of two factor. I didnt have your garanteed vote and shockey wont be able to play after today. i think I have to end it here to have the best chance for town to win
That's bullshit. From your POV, there is only advantages waiting a few more days to decide who would be the fifth man. I literally cannot see why you are doing that - as either alignement, since you're more townread than Arta in the case you're both scum.
Cool (= All the motivation left my body on Friday so happy to win like that (= Fucking WP everybody. I really feel like everybody just played so well, townies and scums alike. I also feel like it is a reaaaaallly difficult game to win as scums. Like we were 3 good scum players, Xata broke his meta for this special game (<3 mate), I tried to imitate my last town game, Arta was making a lot of sense ... and we still should have lost if Coag would have played at least a little, limiting the "scum by thread sentiment" to the 3 scums + kita
On November 18 2015 08:10 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Rels I think you bussed me a little too well before mission 3. I was pretty much a shared townread by anyone but you made that disappear Oh well, it worked out in the end partially due to my gambit of voting yes for the all town team. Was actually planning on conceding if it actually went through since the rayn slot was still almost universally townread.
I felt that would increase HTS' townread on you. I remember being like "should I hard bus ?" and you made a post about me being potential scum and I was like "alright let's do it" =D And yeah your gambit won the game at the end. Fucking well played.
OK I really don't want to brag or anything, this is my feeling. I felt like this game was town favored. Even if the scums wins the first 2 missions, they can lose extremely easily with all the information available to town. And if any of the first 2 missions passes, townies becomes confirmed and the game is almost over for scums. Is it balanced IRL ? If it's the case, I feel like having a lot of time analyzing votes and team submissions and reads is a big disavantadge for scums.
WP everyone. MVP was HTS IMO. Didn't have the time to play, was pushed hard D1, and still managed to solve 2 / 3 scums. Good night folks (= see you in the next game.
On November 18 2015 09:10 Fidei86 wrote: In my view, sicklucker played out of his mind towards the end. He was the ONLY person on Artanis, when the latter was being universally townread. I think he deserved the MVP. If more townies had listened to him, I think town wins.
True SL was the lategame powerhouse (= but he was soooo lazy early game
On November 18 2015 10:25 Half the Sky wrote: As for game's balance, I think this is where the Merlin, etc aspect comes in for RL resistance, but at the same time, I know that for whatever reason it doesn't work out that well on the forums. marvellosity played Merlin apparently and he said it was VERY boring. IDK.
Isn't Merlin a town role, making the town even more powerful ?
On November 18 2015 10:25 Half the Sky wrote: As for game's balance, I think this is where the Merlin, etc aspect comes in for RL resistance, but at the same time, I know that for whatever reason it doesn't work out that well on the forums. marvellosity played Merlin apparently and he said it was VERY boring. IDK.
Isn't Merlin a town role, making the town even more powerful ?
mafia get to guess at the merlin role for a free win at the end of the game if they lose the regular missions
and when you're merlin and the rest of town have 0 correct reads between them and you can't change their mind (and if i can't...), then... well. yes. so dull.
So scums can get wrecked and potentially win the game by randoming a name ? I don't like that at all. Maybe that's more fair IRL when a game lasts one hour (I assume ?), but I would be sooooo mad to lose a won game that lasted weeks because of random.org.
On November 18 2015 10:25 Half the Sky wrote: As for game's balance, I think this is where the Merlin, etc aspect comes in for RL resistance, but at the same time, I know that for whatever reason it doesn't work out that well on the forums. marvellosity played Merlin apparently and he said it was VERY boring. IDK.
Isn't Merlin a town role, making the town even more powerful ?
mafia get to guess at the merlin role for a free win at the end of the game if they lose the regular missions
and when you're merlin and the rest of town have 0 correct reads between them and you can't change their mind (and if i can't...), then... well. yes. so dull.
So scums can get wrecked and potentially win the game by randoming a name ? I don't like that at all. Maybe that's more fair IRL when a game lasts one hour (I assume ?), but I would be sooooo mad to lose a won game that lasted weeks because of random.org.
They could but I guess generally you will have a pretty good idea who merlin is by the end of a game this long. Unless merlin is playing really well and why would he since his role is so fucking boring.
Yeah I imagine in fact scum has a higher chance than random to find Merlin. This setup seems super scum favored.
EPT
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