|
On November 13 2015 19:44 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 19:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also going "Hey I have two scumreads, one is slightly stronger than the other."
"Oh it turns out one of them has to be town, let's presume the one that's stronger is scum and not do any work on actually doing more research on it."
Doesn't particularly strike me as a townie mindset. It doesn't make sense to go from "Arta and HTS are both scum" to "wait they can't be both scums unless rayn is scum, so let's assume the scummiest is scum" after the second mission fails ? What does not make sense in that reasonning ? Of course, if you reasonned that way you would have to attack HTS, who is townreading you. I'm pretty sure your read on her would be different if she was scumreading you.
The fact that you had two strong scumreads means it makes no sense. If you had strong reasons to suspect both of us, which you kept saying you did, a townie mindset is going "fuck, I must be pretty damn wrong, I should re-evaluate" rather than "well I guess I was wrong on one of them, let's just go with the one I suspect slightly more! #YOLO"
No, I townread her because I actually went through the re-evaluation process after confirming that there was scum on that mission and realizing that at least one of shockeyy/hts were town.
|
Also, explain to me why it doesn't make sense for you to be scum with one of Kita/Vivax.
|
On November 13 2015 19:52 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 19:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 12 2015 02:40 Rels wrote:
I suppose Arta / rayn / Xata makes some sense too. The relations between the three are super weird:
- Xata and Arta hard townreads each other
- Arta and rayn are super buddies that don't re evaluate on each other
- Arta and Xata have very little interaction.
So the plan would be to put two scums in the first team, so one of them exits with the universal townread, can make the second team fail; and now the plan is to put the third scum in the third team. On November 12 2015 20:36 Rels wrote:On November 12 2015 03:15 Fidei86 wrote:After discussion between myself and Tictock in the Host QT, and also consultation with Blazinghand, I have decided to issue a second warning to raynpelikoneet for this post. The effect of a second warning (the first warning being here) is a modkill/auto-replace, which is effective immediately.
I will begin searching for a replacement immediately. Until one is found, raynpelikoneet's slot will be eligible to go on missions, and will deemed to vote YES on all proposed missions. If his slot has the spy alignment, it will be deemed to attempt to sabotage any mission on which it is placed. His slot will be skipped for the purpose of team submission.
The OP for this game makes clear that all players are obliged to be civil and corteous to each other. The hosts recognise that Mafia/Resistance can give rise to strong emotions. However, there is a large and important difference between criticising someone's play or their decision making, and personal attacks designed only to belittle or demean. The former happens all the time, but the second will not be tolerated.
If anyone has any concerns about this action, or any further rules questions arising please contact me immediately, copying Tictock and Blazinghand. Wow rayn is probably mod-confirmed town then. I don't think scum would cross the line after being warned. This chain of events actually makes no sense either. Rayn posted everything he posted already at this point. The fact that he got modkilled doesn't mean anything about his alignment; the risk he took was already there as he was making the posts yet Rels doesn't use it to confirm Rayn until he actually gets modkilled. Unless you're saying that the actual modkill itself is alignment indicative it makes no sense to flip your read on Rayn to 99% sure town just for that because he couldn't know what he was doing would get him modkilled. Yeah the modkill made me realize rayn had crossed a line he probably wouldn't have crossed if he was scum.
Curious how you instantly dismiss the idea that Rayn thought what he was posting is acceptable. You should be pretty familiar with his personality by now.
|
On November 13 2015 19:54 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 19:47 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 13 2015 19:44 Rels wrote:On November 13 2015 19:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also going "Hey I have two scumreads, one is slightly stronger than the other."
"Oh it turns out one of them has to be town, let's presume the one that's stronger is scum and not do any work on actually doing more research on it."
Doesn't particularly strike me as a townie mindset. It doesn't make sense to go from "Arta and HTS are both scum" to "wait they can't be both scums unless rayn is scum, so let's assume the scummiest is scum" after the second mission fails ? What does not make sense in that reasonning ? Of course, if you reasonned that way you would have to attack HTS, who is townreading you. I'm pretty sure your read on her would be different if she was scumreading you. The fact that you had two strong scumreads means it makes no sense. If you had strong reasons to suspect both of us, which you kept saying you did, a townie mindset is going "fuck, I must be pretty damn wrong, I should re-evaluate" rather than "well I guess I was wrong on one of them, let's just go with the one I suspect slightly more! #YOLO" No, I townread her because I actually went through the re-evaluation process after confirming that there was scum on that mission and realizing that at least one of shockeyy/hts were town. You're saying nonsense. I have two scumreads; it's proven at least one of them is false; I keep the stronger scumread as scum. This whole mess started because neither of HTS and you consider the other to be very likely scum, which is bullshit. I have a hard time accepting one of you as town being super stupid and doing that; no way you're both town. One of you is riding the other's stupidity.
That doesn't make any sense. You had two strong scumreads. One is false. Re-evaluate.
Re-evaluating is what town does when it's proven they're clearly on the wrong track. The fact that you don't reveals your alignment. I considered her likely scum until I did just that.
|
On November 13 2015 19:55 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 19:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also, explain to me why it doesn't make sense for you to be scum with one of Kita/Vivax. 'cause I'm town. I don't think there is a good relantionship case that prove I can't be scum with Kita / Vivax.
That doesn't even make any sense whatsoever.
On November 13 2015 19:24 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 07:08 Half the Sky wrote:On November 13 2015 06:56 Vivax wrote:
I can tell you already that I would send or accept HTS/Coag/Artanis/myself.
I can compromise on swapping myself out with either Shockey or Xata (who I think is more likely to be town than SL) if you don't trust me.
If you also TR rayn who in my opinion is a good player but had to be wrong on someone last cycle, that sort of coincides with his reads, with exception of HTS/Shockey. I'm so sure on Xatalos and Rels as spies at this point but if we must compromise and you want SL out, then Shockey in for sure. Also the frustrating thing here is that rayn is town but Coag needs to do his part in getting Shockey out of the tunnel. Goddamnit. Part of the problem there from Shockey's POV is that rayn voted for two failed missions and was in two failed missions but that must mean that who else is scum? But there's a reason that not even scum are trying to bury him for that even. His reads were off this game (Shockey/myself) so that should lend clear to him as to why he voted that way and put the people on his mission that he did. And to be quite frank, if it comes down to you and Xatalos, I would take you over Xatalos by a country mile. Because I really really think he's mafia and if he gets on a team again, this game is over. HTS you need to stop being so tunneled and THINKYou are town => Arta is scum Others have to decide which of you, or if both of you are scum, but you have a big chance: you know your alignement. Two people voted YES on the first team and wasn't on the first team: there is 99% chance one of them if scum. And YOU are one of them. Here you are pushing a me + Vivax or me + kita team, which is extremely unlikely. I know where you are. I was tunneled on you with rayn before, specificaly for that reason: you refuse to admit two people voting NO is next to impossible with such a close vote. Your stubborness modkilled rayn. Don't make it lose the game and think; even if you can't decide I'm town, at least stop townreading Arta, 'cause it doesn't make sense. BTW if you're scum and Arta is town, fucking WP. I mean, it's more Arta failing than you being good in this case, but WP for keeping the effort.
If your only reason for it being "extremely unlikely" is that you're town, you would've said impossible. Instead, you said extremely unlikely. There's really no way you're town.
|
On November 13 2015 19:57 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 19:55 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 13 2015 19:52 Rels wrote:On November 13 2015 19:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 12 2015 02:40 Rels wrote:
I suppose Arta / rayn / Xata makes some sense too. The relations between the three are super weird:
- Xata and Arta hard townreads each other
- Arta and rayn are super buddies that don't re evaluate on each other
- Arta and Xata have very little interaction.
So the plan would be to put two scums in the first team, so one of them exits with the universal townread, can make the second team fail; and now the plan is to put the third scum in the third team. On November 12 2015 20:36 Rels wrote:On November 12 2015 03:15 Fidei86 wrote:After discussion between myself and Tictock in the Host QT, and also consultation with Blazinghand, I have decided to issue a second warning to raynpelikoneet for this post. The effect of a second warning (the first warning being here) is a modkill/auto-replace, which is effective immediately.
I will begin searching for a replacement immediately. Until one is found, raynpelikoneet's slot will be eligible to go on missions, and will deemed to vote YES on all proposed missions. If his slot has the spy alignment, it will be deemed to attempt to sabotage any mission on which it is placed. His slot will be skipped for the purpose of team submission.
The OP for this game makes clear that all players are obliged to be civil and corteous to each other. The hosts recognise that Mafia/Resistance can give rise to strong emotions. However, there is a large and important difference between criticising someone's play or their decision making, and personal attacks designed only to belittle or demean. The former happens all the time, but the second will not be tolerated.
If anyone has any concerns about this action, or any further rules questions arising please contact me immediately, copying Tictock and Blazinghand. Wow rayn is probably mod-confirmed town then. I don't think scum would cross the line after being warned. This chain of events actually makes no sense either. Rayn posted everything he posted already at this point. The fact that he got modkilled doesn't mean anything about his alignment; the risk he took was already there as he was making the posts yet Rels doesn't use it to confirm Rayn until he actually gets modkilled. Unless you're saying that the actual modkill itself is alignment indicative it makes no sense to flip your read on Rayn to 99% sure town just for that because he couldn't know what he was doing would get him modkilled. Yeah the modkill made me realize rayn had crossed a line he probably wouldn't have crossed if he was scum. Curious how you instantly dismiss the idea that Rayn thought what he was posting is acceptable. You should be pretty familiar with his personality by now. Are you saying scum!rayn could have done that, and I am scum slipping and mistakenly explaining my townread by saying only town!rayn would do that ?
I'm saying that it's a bad reason to townread him. There's plenty of good reasons to and 180ing on him because of something a mod did is not one.
|
On November 13 2015 19:59 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 19:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 13 2015 19:54 Rels wrote:On November 13 2015 19:47 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 13 2015 19:44 Rels wrote:On November 13 2015 19:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also going "Hey I have two scumreads, one is slightly stronger than the other."
"Oh it turns out one of them has to be town, let's presume the one that's stronger is scum and not do any work on actually doing more research on it."
Doesn't particularly strike me as a townie mindset. It doesn't make sense to go from "Arta and HTS are both scum" to "wait they can't be both scums unless rayn is scum, so let's assume the scummiest is scum" after the second mission fails ? What does not make sense in that reasonning ? Of course, if you reasonned that way you would have to attack HTS, who is townreading you. I'm pretty sure your read on her would be different if she was scumreading you. The fact that you had two strong scumreads means it makes no sense. If you had strong reasons to suspect both of us, which you kept saying you did, a townie mindset is going "fuck, I must be pretty damn wrong, I should re-evaluate" rather than "well I guess I was wrong on one of them, let's just go with the one I suspect slightly more! #YOLO" No, I townread her because I actually went through the re-evaluation process after confirming that there was scum on that mission and realizing that at least one of shockeyy/hts were town. You're saying nonsense. I have two scumreads; it's proven at least one of them is false; I keep the stronger scumread as scum. This whole mess started because neither of HTS and you consider the other to be very likely scum, which is bullshit. I have a hard time accepting one of you as town being super stupid and doing that; no way you're both town. One of you is riding the other's stupidity. That doesn't make any sense. You had two strong scumreads. One is false. Re-evaluate. Re-evaluating is what town does when it's proven they're clearly on the wrong track. The fact that you don't reveals your alignment. I considered her likely scum until I did just that. LOL you are saying I'm not re evaluating. Nice try bro (= No need to discuss further then.
Yeah, you instantly jumped to the conclusion I was the scum and you have never reconsidered.
Anyway, done talking to scum. Should be obvious to everyone else by now. Back to work.
|
On November 14 2015 00:40 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 16:55 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Wait, I answered all your questions, you apparently didn't have any more yet now I'm basically confirmed scum to you? Explain yourself. - You push suspicion on shockeyy when he questions Rels about the rayn read making a generic statement, rather than considering that he is simply trying to understand the discrepancy.
I said that the way he was pushing it, he seemed to be trying to bury Rels. That's how I read it.
[*]You seem disinterested on day one, requiring people to actually pose questions to you on multiple occasions, rather than taking initiative. You don't provide much input at all regarding nominations on day one, despite your chart suggesting that you have a read on every player.
I didn't have much time. I mentioned this as soon as the game started. I also shared my reads when I had them.
[*]Your interaction with Xatalos regarding the day one nomination is very scummy. He asks you directly if you are fine being excluded and you reply yes, stating that we're going to nominate four people next mission so it's not all that important. This is not a town mindset in my opinion. Since that group of three players had at least one spy, it suggests you were more concerned about not having the overlap with two spies in the first mission.
I've explained this before. I thought all three players were likely town. If I was correct in that, I got to nominate myself the day after with the group and win the game. I took a risk in presuming all three were town and it didn't pay off, but the logic is certainly there. You're simply framing it in a mafia mindset when the townie mindset is obvious.
[*]After creating your chart, you town read sicklucker for being open and aggressive and pledge your support behind the day one team. However your chart shows that sicklucker has a single strong scum read on xatalos. When sicklucker drops the scum read on xatalos after he is included, you don't think anything of it.
The chart was a single moment in time. Sicklucker had been open and aggressive.
[*]When it comes up your turn to suggest a nomination, you decide to throw it away by letting rayn talk you into excluding the player who you seem to have the strongest town read for. You say you suggested the team because you wanted it to fail to gain information. However, on day one when there was a large amount of information to be gained and less content in the thread to go by, you decided to pass the mission. Furthermore, there is little sense of concern about accidentally having the mission go through when you didn't want it to. The information gained from your nomination after it failed was negligible.
I didn't have time on Day 1. Monday through Wednesday are very busy days for me. I can keep repeating that if you want. Furthermore, no team that I wanted that I could suggest would go through. By sending a mission that would not pass through, there'd be more days to gather information and I'd have more time to actually get more accurate reads as well as make myself townread and get on a mission I favour.
[*]When the same exact mission with rayn subbed out for yourself comes up, you provide very little input regarding how people should vote. You state that you didn't nominate the team of artanis/super/rayn/kita because you were still not sure about super. This doesn't really seem to change in the next 24 hours. However, when the rayn/rels/super/kita team comes up you vote no, but make little effort to make sure the mission doesn't pass. The no vote sets you up to look townie going into cycle three, while still allowing the vote to go through by staying quiet.
So now I'm being scumread for voting no on a mission with scum on it. Yeah, I'm pretty sure you came into this analysis with a made up mind already. I'm sorry that I didn't have the time to push hard on not wanting the mission to go through. That doesn't actually make me scum.
[*]After town reading me the entire game, you state that I should be excluded by cherry picking my post when I made the assumption that I'm town. Of course I'm going to assume I'm town. You then apply a process of elimination read by stating that Xata/Super cannot be scum buddies, therefore it is likely that Xata/Kita could be scum buddies. You state that the Xata/Super interaction has no benefit, but they both came out on good terms in the thread and Super earned a lot of town points based on the little spat they had. However, you fail to consider that the Xata/Kita interaction has very little actual benefit, by dismissing it as a bus of sorts.
Outcome does not matter, it's the mindset going into it that matters. I really don't believe any scum player, especially Superbia would come up with the idea of "let's attack Xatalos for some awkward wording he made and keep hammering on about it for no reason, I'm sure that's going to get me so much towncred!" I really don't. Scumreading eachother is also not as big a deal in Resistance as it is in real mafia, since it only matters to get on a mission yourself.
[*]There are very few new ideas that you bring to the thread throughout the game. Most of your content is replying to ideas from other individuals. Most of the game you are playing passive and avoiding direct confrontations.
I play a reply-based game. Look at all my town games. I gain reads through interaction and push those reads through, which is what I have been doing all game (albeit not pushing them as hard as usual, which is due to restricted time). I'm also clearly not avoiding confrontations as can be observed by how I've treated Xatalos, Rels, and Sicklucker this game.
Your analysis suggests you've made up your mind before even going through my filter. It makes me pretty sure you're scum. Furthermore, the fact that Xata seems to have gone MIA and isn't really trying anymore leads me to believe he's probably the last scum since I don't think he does that as town. That, combined with the resistance from scummy players to this team leads me to want to yayvote it.
|
Looking at the votes I'm quite sure this team was clean. Going to afk through Rels' noms and probably yayvote whatever SL puts up.
|
On November 14 2015 19:37 sicklucker wrote:
So all this analyst confirms that the scum team is xata/rels/kits + an outside chance of vivax but this is less likely because he had a very good inthread excuse to vote. I think if hes mafia here he would have voted yes so acualy im pretty sure on vivax vivax can be town.
Art is also likely town but his yes vote is worrisome since his last inthread posts were talking about how he cant vote yes because of me. But his most likely partner is hts. Hts is probably on my mission so including art is not the worst. Replacing coag with art is possible.
That leaves me with coag. im not as sure as the rest of you that hes town but there are obvious meta reasons to think thats the case. While I originally wanted to include him im thinking I might not just because the last team seemed pure already based on votes. He was on both missions and there is weird worlds were he is scum with the no voters.
one of ryan/art will have ot be included on mission 4/5 anyway so I dont think it matters much if we put one of the two on the missions.
Acualy since we need 5 confirmed towns heres what I promise to do on my noms. I will try to nominate a team of 4 that does not include myself. This will confirm me (again) and the 4 people who I submitted.
This will give us 5 confirmed towns and force the scum the concede earlier and make you morons less suspicious of me since im not submitting myself. But if I have doubts I will include myself
Uh, why would I start doubting you harder and position myself to vote no if HtS is my scumbuddy, and why would HtS try to make you townread me instead of just going with the team that was on there and fail it herself? Makes no sense.
Anyways, as I said, I'm yayvoting any team that doesn't include Xata/Rels/Kita. I'm sure Vivax isn't scum because he could've just yesvoted to win the game and I'm pretty sure he knows it. I'm sure HtS is town for reasons mentioned in this post plus everything I said before about how she doesn't seem to be playing towards a scum agenda at all. I'm pretty sure Shockeyy isn't scum (though he might actually be the one I'm worried about most if I'm wrong on any of them) because he doesn't have any kind of scum motivation and seems way too derpy for it. I'm quite sure SL isn't scum because he's going tryhard still when it's probably already in the bag for him if he's scum and suggesting a mission without himself on it too. That, and Kita/Rels/Xata all looking pretty awful helps.
|
Oh and Rayn was definitely town. Everything about him just said town. Typical tunneling for people not making sense and getting angry over it.
|
Oh and I'm quite amused that Kita's PoE basically left him with having to scumread himself now that Vivax is basically confirmed town.
|
Just looks like a wifom suggestion to me. Basically a scumclaim, especially from someone who gave me shit for giving a fake/reaction test suggestion.
I can vote either way really. I still think the team's clean and he's just trying to wifom, but a good team will probably come up soon anyway.
|
On November 15 2015 20:43 Vivax wrote:Good news folks. I'm doing a palmaresque backwards reread of the game and currently think that rayn was probably the mafia messing with every mission. Check this out, it's around the mission Xata issued. Pre-mission-pass: Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 11:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 05 2015 11:18 sicklucker wrote:
im gonna be so salty if sicklucker pockets me Post-mission-pass: Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 18:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I never pushed SL to be on the mission. As you see, he actually believes the mission passes, then he comes back and realizes that everyone else has another opinion and immediately defends himself from the notion that he wanted SL on a mission. That doesn't add up Paying more attention to the way he talks to Rels pre-mission, it looks to me like he gets angry to have an excuse to leave. Pushes scum on Shockey and Rels, but especially on Rels. Will post more as I keep on reading.
Eh, he had a super strong townread on Xatalos and a townread that was significantly less strong on SL. He did advocate for putting Superbia on the mission over SL after all, so it does make sense.
|
Fuck you Vivax you're making me actually reconsider Rayn and I don't want to 
|
Actually I think it fits with townRayn after all. He does like his tunnels and he was 100% sure Xata was town.
|
So I was typing this as you rudely started seeding doubt.
Anyway, game is already solved. Kita is clearly mafia for creating narratives on both me and Vivax rather than actual cases, actually construing things that are towny to make it look mafia. He's also been extremely disconnected from the thread, just doing his own thing and interacting once or twice at most before just discontinuing and going back doing his own thing.
Rels is mafia for doing things he accused me of. He made a team he doesn't even believe in himself with two of his scumreads on it, as well as the fact that he's been pushing everyone in the start based on trivial stuff. He also couldn't explain why he flipped on Rayn very well. The team he sent in is clearly WIFOM and it means nothing as there's 0 chance he actually expects it to go through, with everyone and their mum scumreading him. It might actually make it more likely that everyone on there is town so that SL can wifom himself into adding a scum (which appears to be working).
SL clearly isn't scum for how much he's tryharding and struggling to put on a team as well as suggesting not to put himself on a mission to do it by mission 5. SL doesn't try hard unless he feels he has to and if he was mafia he really didn't need to at this point.
Rayn is probably town due to the way he was interacting with people and actually held back at the start, but eventually caved in and went full you-aren't-being-logical-so-you-must-be-scum-townrayn. The way he behaved aligned up exactly with how I'd expect townrayn to behave.
Xata is scum due to everything HtS has said. Being very vague in general, not properly evaluating HtS and also PoE. SL and Rayn probably aren't scum so he has to be.
I will be yayvoting the team, especially since the only semi-doubtful member of my 6-person town team isn't in there, and I just don't think Rels actually expects this mission to have any chance of going through.
|
On November 15 2015 22:39 Vivax wrote:
So Rels and kita downvoted Xata's mission because? Was it really that obvious it would pass that they'd deem it bus-worthy?
Kita had positioned himself against Xata, so he couldn't vote yes. He was also null I believe on SL, so voting yes and having it fail would make him look really bad.
Rels had also been suspicious of Xata after the whole Super/Xata thing. Actually weird since he then proceeded to also be suspicious of Superbia, then moved onto casting suspicion on Rayn and I don't even know what's going on anymore. I don't believe he shared a read on SL beyond null at that point.
It doesn't really matter though, Rels is scum for the rest of the game.
|
On November 15 2015 22:43 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2015 22:32 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Actually I think it fits with townRayn after all. He does like his tunnels and he was 100% sure Xata was town. How could he be after the mission he issued failed? HTS shockey are scumreads, he thinks it's an all town team, yet they both vote yes when he thought it would be no. SL votes no. Xata votes yes. He should be 100 % town to himself as town. Where's the conclusion that Xata could be scum? But if Xata is scum then what are HTS and Shockey? All of them weren't on the mission that just failed!
Simple: He thought the reasons he had why Xata was town were stronger than anything thrown into his face. Rayn likes his tunnels.
Those two could still be scum until Mission 2 failed, which is why he voted yes; he thought it was SL/HtS/Shockeyy.
I'm not saying it's good not to re-evaluate stronger than he did after a mission failed, but I also don't think it falls outside of TownRayn expectations.
|
Sure feels scummy in the past few pages over here.
Sicklucker, just vote yes. Scum is Rels/Kita/Xata and maaaybe it was Rayn but probably not. None of those are on the mission here.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
