EPT[M][N] Completely Normal Generic Mini Mafia - Page 20
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Palmar
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Palmar
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I'll probably be mostly afk tomorrow | ||
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Palmar
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On September 26 2015 06:33 Cephiro wrote: Excuse me as I go weep in a corner. I TRIED. I DID ALL I COULD. Sorry I wasn't any better, or sorry that you all didn't believe me z_z This is in no way a guarantee you were right. But yes, I was wrong, sorry. | ||
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Palmar
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I appreciate the part where you were alive long enough to post the scummy things about me, and died before you managed to get to the towny parts. Thanks a bunch man! | ||
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Palmar
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My current opinion is that we just lynch ceph, but I'm going to read both the filters of ceph and damdred at some point today (probably monday) before I make a final decision. I don't know if it means anything that jat died instead of ritoky (or instead of me). | ||
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so eh | ||
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On September 27 2015 06:56 Damdred wrote: Palmar could you explain how you developed your Marv read? Did you have a town read d1? What caused you to doubt n1 and inevitably push him obviously. No I had a "nothing stands out as mafia" read on him. Basically, after XXX which was a complete disaster I have intentionally tried to be less paranoid of marv, usually giving him a lot of space on day 1, which for the past few games has turned into a townread at somepoint. This game I, again, gave him a lot of space but I never really townread him. Like I want to think that the old version of treating marv might have caught him earlier, but it's still worth it to not always be paranoid of him. | ||
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On September 28 2015 06:17 Damdred wrote: Hi Palmar I've read lo try a and um waffling but I think ceph is the mafia I'm curious any thoughts you have. Thoughts still the same. I think we lynch ceph and your effort when no one is around makes me feel better about that. I am not making a decision until I read both your filters tomorrow though. The kill was weird but not sure I want to open that can of wifom | ||
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On September 28 2015 09:36 Cephiro wrote: Palmar PoV: He ignored me trying to convince him yesterday to some extent. I'm not saying he didn't provide any reasoning for doing so, but it wasn't as solid as it could've been, and left me with a feeling of "I'm just going to do what I want / what I need", rather than "I listened to you but I just don't agree enough to follow your suggestion" I didn't ignore you, I just didn't think you had particularly good points. Also, there's some disconnect in this entire post. If you're mad at me for not sheeping you on damdred yesterday because your case was so much stronger than mine, how can you turn around today and talk about me being mafia being a possibily? Your job here should be to try to convince me that damdred is indeed mafia. If you think it's even possible I am mafia, your whole thing about damdred case being strong enough to berate me for not sheeping it is phony, and if your case was that strong, your current tinfoil suspicion of me is phony. Also, you got one thing right, I did "what I want". Of course I did. I kinda want to point out that if I was mafia, I'd have been 100% fine with "letting" you win the argument, lynching damdred, and then calling everyone bad while tunneling geript today. It's super easy if I am mafia. On September 28 2015 09:36 Cephiro wrote: What makes me especially suspect this is the fact that even yesterday, he didn't really properly disagree with my case, but he still seemed fairly defensive of Damdred. And the first thing he does today is point out that I need to get killed "but I'll look into filters just in case". With the amount of reasoning he's provided for me as mafia, I'm calling complete bullshit on going through filters and just naming me for the sake of naming me. Whether that's a town palmar not giving a fuck or scum Palmar rolling with agenda, I'm not entirely sure. I did disagree with your case, this is straight up false. I looked at the same evidence and said damdred was town. I especially pointed out two parts of the case (the wile townread and damdred's play on that day). I am going to go through the filters, I don't know what you mean by "with the amount of reasoning he's provided for me as mafia", but in reality I have very little reason to call you mafia. Mostly the fact you've been afk/background for huge parts of the game. That's precisely why I am going to read the filters. You are mafia at the moment because of poe. I think damdred is town and I know ritoky is confirmed. On September 28 2015 09:36 Cephiro wrote: The thing is, there aren't really many logical holes in his play, because he hasn't heavily committed to anything. He's around to give his opinion, ask something a bit on so on, but at no point has he had to take extremely firm stances toward anything, nor has he been pushed for it because his play on a general level has still seemed town-like even without extreme committing. And the thing is, I can perfectly see this play coming from a scum Palmar, even if I do feel it's more likely to be a town Palmar. But there's nothing in his filter that makes me think "scum Palmar would never ever do this" either. Most of the game has been on autopilot. I took a stance against killing moosy on day 1. (although I tried to kill jat). I killed wile on day 2 I killed marv on day 3 I pushed for, and got my lynch, yesterday, even if it was wrong. On September 28 2015 09:36 Cephiro wrote: Also Palmar's reads have been shit this game, and while everyone has bad games and is very wrong every now and then, I wouldn't expect a player with his experience to be this wrong about so many players, given how many other players picked up on things he did not. I was right on rayn, koshi, ritoky. I was eventually right on jat (remember I decided to call him town when people were pushing him yesterday), I was right on marv, I was semi-right on scott (I never tried to lynch him). I was wrong on geript and onegu. I was right on moosy. I was wrong on wile. So depending on today I'm going to have like a 70% record of being right this game, so no. My reads have not been shit. | ||
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Palmar
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I don't know if that's actually legit. | ||
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I am curious now what those reasons were? | ||
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Here is everything ceph said about marvellosity (every single thing I could find in his filter) up until day 3: On September 17 2015 03:12 Cephiro wrote: Still got the last 15 pages or so to go through more in-depth, but I'm getting a fairly good idea of how I'd like to lynch today. Assuming nothing significant to change my mind comes up: Wile > JAT > marv/geript On September 17 2015 03:30 Cephiro wrote: Short ver while I'm catching up: JAT mostly for reasons that have been brought up, as in producing mostly irrelevant content. Sure, he talks and asks stuff but so far it feels like he's being around for the sake of being around. marv because even though he is "participating", it doesn't seem he's doing enough with the information he goes after. I mean, he asks a lot of questions and posts his opinions, but he doesn't really try to get anything done with it. He could be just trying to get a better read on the game as a whole, but I don't see him pushing for anything strongly enough to get something done. With his post quality and amount, I'd expect him to try to get something done with all the information he's gathering. So far I don't see that happening? If you compare it to your play for example, you have more nonsensical stuff in your filter that's irrelevant than he does, but you're much more actively pressuring your scumreads and trying to get shit done. geript because half of his posts are absolutely irrelevant to the game, and the remainder feels like the level of I don't give a shit -commitment. As in, he talks about palmar meta like it's somehow significant. I'm not saying meta is a thing that should never be used, but infuriates me when I see experienced mafia players here using it like "But player X has said hi as town in three games in a row, so if his first post isn't hi he has to be scum". Seriously? Maybe I don't just understand you veterans metaing each other for the stupidest reasons ever and I'm the idiot, but that's honestly how I feel about most of your "meta" analysis towards each other. Here he explains the other people. Sure there is one paragraph about marv on meta thrown in there. This is probably the most substantial thing he wrote on marv. On September 17 2015 04:52 Cephiro wrote: Currently writing up about marv. Even if it's not going to get him lynched today, nor might it be the best content, I want to be transparent and share the things about his play that make me suspicious of him at the moment. Check the date On September 17 2015 05:15 Cephiro wrote: Well I guess you're correct that it's not the best thing to do at this moment if I'm not certain it'll get him lynched, which I do doubt. So I'll post my thoughts on marv during the nightcycle when it won't interfere with more important matters at hand, fair point. Check the date On September 17 2015 06:03 Cephiro wrote: I have better things to do than explaining why I'm leaning town on Onegu at this point. I'd prefer him not lynched today, it doesn't look like it's going to happen that easily either. Instead of focusing on why I think onegu is town, you should be focusing on figuring out who you want to consolidate the lynch on. I didn't give reasoning for saying I think one of Koshi/you are town either, same with Moosy, but you don't seem to be care about that at all. Just forget nitpicking for now and focus on the relevant stuff. If you want reasons for my townreads, I'll give them later when they're relevant as I said I'd do with my opinion on marv (unless you all actually end up lynching me, which would be quite sad.) 2 in one post. The townread on Onegu and yet another "I'll maybe talk about marv at some point". He didn't talk more about marv during that cycle. On September 19 2015 03:56 Cephiro wrote: Not planning on getting modkilled, nor do I plan on getting lynched or NK'ed. In the unfortunate case that happens, I won't be flipping red anyway. ##vote Wile E. Coyote Still do think marv is a good lynch, but not in a hurry to do anything about it since we have "confirmed" scum to kill. I guess I'll post my thoughts on it during the night or later in the daycycle, depending on when I feel like it. (Or unless you people have a specific reason you'd want it any earlier, given that it's not currently very relevant.) Doubt mafia wants to kill me with my current level of activity, would make sense for them to keep me around to try and push a mislynch on me later. Someone was also asking about my scum play, whoever that was: I can do pretty much anything as scum (and town too). Bussing is more like a rule, with not bussing being the exception for me. At least when it comes to games where there are at least 3 mafia members. So while I won't mind if you read me favourably based on my voting and actions at the end of D1, you shouldn't think it has to make me town. Ceph explains that he's mafia here because he buses as mafia  Also, more delay on marv. On September 19 2015 04:15 Cephiro wrote: Only from your perspective though. Which you'd claim regardless of your alignment. If you want to convince me you're town, you can help me get marv lynched tomorrow. On September 19 2015 05:33 Cephiro wrote: We lynch Wile, simple as that. Also I'd prefer to stay as a mislynch target for now, so I'm going to stay that way. You know I want to get marv lynched (tomorrow), that's more than enough for now. You'll get the reasoning in due time. I don't see why I should be around talking about irrelevant stuff meanwhile. First we deal with the matter at hand, and then we move onto the next thing on schedule. I've seen flailing about instead of going for the obvious thing that should be done more than I care to remember. Ok so here we are. This is the picture I wanted to paint. Up until this part of the game we have a vague idea that ceph wants to lynch marv the day after wile without really expanding on the reasons. The important part here is what happens next. The last post I quoted is the last thing Cephiro posted before going afk for like 70+ hours. On September 22 2015 19:46 Cephiro wrote: I'm around now and I'm on pace with the thread, just going to re-read filters and take my time doing so before I post anything of substance. After that I'll stick around for a short moment only. I'm not sure if I can be around during the lynch deadline today, but I'll try to be available. If I'm not able to be around then, I'll be online some hours before the deadline to place my vote. Unless something surprising that I missed before comes up with my filter re-reads, I'm still very keen on voting marv today. This is the next post in line. He posts this one and then drops the case on marv. I'm not gonna quote the entire thing, you can read it here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24883997 Of course by this point marv is the consensus lynch and everyone basically considers him having claimed mafia. Which is why his case is received with a hint of sarcasm. On September 22 2015 21:31 justanothertownie wrote: meh I think the good points in this post were already made by me earlier and things like the "Palmar doesn't deserve those townreads" are just not alignment indicative. Also the last quoted post is clearly not serious and I don't know how you can miss that. On September 22 2015 21:47 Palmar wrote: Cephiro drops hard hitting analysis on the guy we're lynching anyway and isn't even trying to defend himself. So yeah. I think this is very relevant and possibly the best reason to think cephiro is mafia. He took the "right" stance on marv (calling him mafia) without ever pushing or trying to actually act on it, only to hop on the wagon when the train was already half way there with a massive case. The point of ceph's case cannot be to lynch marv, because all he has to do to lynch marv is just put his vote on him and fuck off, so why did he write a huge case on marv when marv was being lynched anyway? Did he want a piece of the credit pie? | ||
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Palmar
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I'm really sorry if I'm the one idiot who townread scumdred and this is a gamethrow but meh. I'm not that bad. | ||
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It would be super marv-y to tell ceph it's okay to say he wants to vote him, but not commit to it until it's clear marv can't turn jat and I around. (at that point in the game jat and I were by far the most influential people in the game). Like of course this is just theory, but even if this isn't the case, the convenience of the timing and the awkwardness of that case is pretty conclusive to me. | ||
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Like the one thing that bothers me is the kill points to damdred (jat was very much okay with killing him). But I don't know. This game is hard and I blame rayn for dying like a piggie. | ||
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Palmar
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On September 28 2015 13:43 ritoky wrote: cuz i was kinda down on cephiro after he over-answered the living shit out of a simple question i asked him. but then he goes and has the same thought i had about palmar in regards to talking to ceph about the damdred lynch like he is town, calling the points in the case good -> only town thing, lynch ceph? just kinda a jarring moment. after being wrong on geript his first reaction is lynch ceph not, "well, i was wrong, maybe i should reconsider damdred too." now i kinda like ceph again. bleh. Me being wrong in one place doesn't really mean I'm wrong again. Like I went through most of ceph's filter earlier and the beginning of damdred's, and I still believe the same thing, that ceph is far more likely to be mafia. | ||
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