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On June 19 2015 05:02 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 04:58 KelsierSC wrote:On June 19 2015 04:57 ritoky wrote:On June 19 2015 02:00 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 19 2015 01:37 GlowingBear wrote:On June 19 2015 01:36 KelsierSC wrote:On June 19 2015 01:35 GlowingBear wrote:
My wording is TERRIBLE in my latest post
Tell me if you can understand. In case you can't, I will rewrite it lynching low activity is better than someone scummy. because if scum has a high activity they will give themselves away at some point whereas low activity is always a question. that right? Exactly!!! or, you know, the fact that this is a retarded opinion if you are town and actually incredibly indicative that you are scum Let's break it down. From a GB=town perspective first: it's not at all helpful because you eliminate entire possibilities when scumhunting and you invite scum to be more active by saying, "oh if you're more active we won't lynch you!" Townies, on the other hand, are not going to give a shit because they will continue to play like they will play and they could honestly not give a fuck what a player like you thinks. Indeed this is one of the biggest problems with using surface-level things like activity to attempt to scum hunt because you end up shooting yourself in the foot. You maybe catch the low activity scum if you are lucky or manage to use other clues to find them but it is incredibly rare that you can nail an entire team or even a significant portion of a team that way. It certainly wouldn't have worked in the game we played in together where you were scum, where all 3 scum members were active (AND YOU SHOULD FUCKING KNOW THAT IF YOU ARE TOWN) whereas town almost mislynched into some dude that was going to get modkilled anyway, and all the other lynch candidates would obviously not have flipped town like Shockey and Shining and Tubesock and whoever else was in that game and was scummy. So, if you are town in this game GB you should stop pushing anti town things and pushing like 7 different people with no reasons. On the other hand if you imagine this from a GB=scum perspective this is actually really great for GB scum to say this. If GB scum says we're only lynching inactives, it's easy to get town support because no one likes inactives. Reading active people is hard so it's really easy to fake scum reads on inactive players. Indeed this fits best with GB's style this game because he asserts he is "reaction fishing" when in reality this is just a thin veil to look for town sentiment. Similarly in the previous game where he was scum, GB was more than willing to let LS, his scum teammate, live on day 1 but instead he wanted to push someone like Stutters who wasn't doing shit. Why else would he ask me whether I would lynch VA randomly yet offer none of his own thought process? This in particular is very scummy because he was the one that prodded me for not providing opinions, yet when I do he offers absolutely nothing in return! At no point did GB actually make any sort of reasonable attempt to work with me despite claiming to want to do so. Indeed, he actually undermines what I am doing by saying that I am not attempting to get town to consolidate yet being the biggest offender by far of the very things he is accusing others of doing. Lastly, the whole "we're not going to lynch actives" thing is great for his scum style because as he proved in the last game, he is a very active scum player. When pushing the idea that we shouldn't lynch active players because it's a bad idea, he's masking his own style as scum because he himself is an active scum player. It's merely a stone that he is using to knock out multiple birds at once-it's a play in his own self interest in multiple ways. That coupled with his complete lack of reads and reasons this game pretty much confirms he is scum. are you talking about this post ksc? yeh and the one after On June 19 2015 02:14 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 19 2015 02:09 NydusHerMain wrote:
I want to swap this to a bw on onegu but at the same time I'm okay with a bf lynch.
@bugs what's there not to get about what gb said? He's uneasy despite being one of the voters because it's got so many people voting on it whereas no one else is really up for vote consideration in comparison.
Gonna throw this out there and see if it sticks.
##Vote: onegu
If not, I'm fine with bf regardless. what doesn't make sense is the fact that he is uneasy about the lack of consolidation yet he does exactly what he claims is making him uneasy. He doesn't attempt to consolidate and instead his reads are constantly changing and he's adding new people he thinks are scum all the time. e.g. why would he bother to say that he's going to write up a case on breshke? I feel if that actually gets posted it's going to derail the thread even further rather than give us any further indication on who is scum. Given that his vote is on BF I would expect him to try to convince the rest of us to consolidate on BF, because that's what he says he expects other people to be doing-consolidating. It's also nearly impossible to know what he thinks because he refuses to work to flesh out reads despite claiming that it is what he wanted to do with me. He asked me maybe 2-3 one liner questions that ended up going nowhere because when I responded to him he gave nothing in return. That's quite odd for someone who claimed that collaboration is important in getting together a strong town day 1. If he unvotes BF and ends up voting someone else this will pretty much prove what I'm talking about. He might OMGUS me or maybe he'll go through with his statement on Breshke but even now it doesn't appear that he was genuine about his talk about consolidation and about his talk about collaboration. eh. to me that just read like a lot of "i don't like the way this guy plays". his first thing is just disagreeing with the policy of lynching inactives day 1 and i don't buy his scum motivation he is selling. then he talks about GB being all over the place and intentionally fracturing the thread. he is all over the place always? let me try on what HF quoted and see if i like that better.
go on page 82 and read what GB said about my play in the previous game, then look at the posts he quoted.
he said last game I was willing to policy lynch lurkers, despite the post he quoted literally saying that I thought there were better lynches than lurker lynches and I wanted people to stop trying to lynch lurkers and instead join me on the wagon that I was leading on LS. (who, by the way, flipped scum that day).
GB was scum in that game and I actually suspected him day 1 as well. When I did so he acted exactly like he did here, OMGUSing me and flinging mud at me. So many people disagreed with me that day that I actually went back and reevaluated and instead tunneled his teammate LS, who was also fairly active but really scummy. This time his play again looks very similar, but now that I know what scum GB looks like I'm not going to back off.
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On June 19 2015 05:00 Holyflare wrote:
damn bugs mindmeld
aww yeaaa
actually that makes me wanna play dota and run some TA mid
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@shockey are you going to switch your vote to GB?
or would you rather waste your vote on LS
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On June 19 2015 05:14 GlowingBear wrote:
Lol man, look how much effort I'm putting to fight this lynch
This is very disappointing
I know, it sucks to get lynched as scum on day 1, especially on this forum
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On June 19 2015 05:19 rsoultin wrote:
tldr anyone? otherwise starting at page 77 @.@
tl;dr GB misrepresented my play horribly and outed himself as scum, now he dies
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On June 19 2015 05:24 Fidei86 wrote:
@Kel I'm around, keeping tabs on the thread while I'm at work. For what it's worth, and it's probably not much, I agree with GB's sentiment here. A d1 lynch is pretty unlikely to succeed. In the last game I was in (HG) the top three wagons on d1 were all town. This game has been 20 times less likely to actually find a scum imo, given that we're almost at ninety pages after 2 days. PSA: People, your spam and OMGUS'ing is not helpful. You make it super easy for mafia just to blend in to the noise, and you make it super hard for townies (like me) to actually engage with what's going on. If you have a case, please MAKE IT, then let other people actually read it. Don't just keep spamming back and forth. If you're town, you're NEVER going to convince a mafia that they are mafia - they'll keep protesting their innocence until they are lynched. Same if they're town. The people you have to convince is everyone else, and frankly I'm just kind of turned off by all this.
So, back to GB - he's posting, people can get reads on him, and those reads will only get stronger and more accurate over time. Worst case if we don't lynch him is that he's mafia and we catch him later. However, if we do lynch him, we're missing the opportunity to lynch a scummy lurker. If you let the lurkers live, they just turn the later days into a coinflip for active town.
so literally your only reason for wanting to keep GB alive is because there's potentially a better, lurkier player out there?
Why don't you read the case on GB instead of using things that are not alignment indicative to get yourself off an actually good lynch?
Also it's rather ironic coming from you that we should lynch into the lurkers. I would place you near the top of a lurk list if I had to make one.
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On June 19 2015 05:29 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 05:25 LightningStrike wrote:On June 19 2015 05:24 Fidei86 wrote:
@Kel I'm around, keeping tabs on the thread while I'm at work. For what it's worth, and it's probably not much, I agree with GB's sentiment here. A d1 lynch is pretty unlikely to succeed. In the last game I was in (HG) the top three wagons on d1 were all town. This game has been 20 times less likely to actually find a scum imo, given that we're almost at ninety pages after 2 days. PSA: People, your spam and OMGUS'ing is not helpful. You make it super easy for mafia just to blend in to the noise, and you make it super hard for townies (like me) to actually engage with what's going on. If you have a case, please MAKE IT, then let other people actually read it. Don't just keep spamming back and forth. If you're town, you're NEVER going to convince a mafia that they are mafia - they'll keep protesting their innocence until they are lynched. Same if they're town. The people you have to convince is everyone else, and frankly I'm just kind of turned off by all this.
So, back to GB - he's posting, people can get reads on him, and those reads will only get stronger and more accurate over time. Worst case if we don't lynch him is that he's mafia and we catch him later. However, if we do lynch him, we're missing the opportunity to lynch a scummy lurker. If you let the lurkers live, they just turn the later days into a coinflip for active town. Lynching lurkers Day 1 isn't optimal play when you can lynch scum imo. ... I mean, that's obviously true (to the extent that it's basically a truism). My point is that I don't think we have a very good chance of catching a scum today. This thread has been a dumpster, where most people who aren't involved in the OMGUS/tit-for-tat are probably just finding their strongest town read (for me it's Rsoult btw) and sheeping them. But at least if we lynch a lurker, we guarantee that we make it harder for mafia to keep lurking and blending in. I recognise that there's sort of a logical tension here - I'm saying that we should lynch lurkers, but I'm also saying that all this volume of posting is also seriously town-detrimental. I guess I'm just an optimist, as I think people will eventually run out of steam soon and then we can start having some actually quasi-serious discussions.
There seems to be this sort of implication here that what we've had so far is not serious.
What makes you say that the GB lynch has not been substantiated in serious discussion? Like 6-7 people have commented on it and we have a fairly wide array of perspectives and information that went into it. I put a chunk in re: GB's misrepresentation of my play, KSC pointed out how his Breshke case was terrible (speaking of Breshke, where the hell is he?) VA and Shockeyy pointed out elements of his meta that fit to his play here, and HF has provided his own opinions and corroboration of GB's play from previous games as well. Individually I think all of those pieces of information are pretty valuable and strong on their own, but together they are the strongest indication that we have the correct lynch for today.
OTOH when you look at the BF case it's mostly people just whining that they don't like his posting style and his activity. That doesn't really inspire confidence to me.
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On June 19 2015 05:32 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 05:26 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 19 2015 05:24 Fidei86 wrote:
@Kel I'm around, keeping tabs on the thread while I'm at work. For what it's worth, and it's probably not much, I agree with GB's sentiment here. A d1 lynch is pretty unlikely to succeed. In the last game I was in (HG) the top three wagons on d1 were all town. This game has been 20 times less likely to actually find a scum imo, given that we're almost at ninety pages after 2 days. PSA: People, your spam and OMGUS'ing is not helpful. You make it super easy for mafia just to blend in to the noise, and you make it super hard for townies (like me) to actually engage with what's going on. If you have a case, please MAKE IT, then let other people actually read it. Don't just keep spamming back and forth. If you're town, you're NEVER going to convince a mafia that they are mafia - they'll keep protesting their innocence until they are lynched. Same if they're town. The people you have to convince is everyone else, and frankly I'm just kind of turned off by all this.
So, back to GB - he's posting, people can get reads on him, and those reads will only get stronger and more accurate over time. Worst case if we don't lynch him is that he's mafia and we catch him later. However, if we do lynch him, we're missing the opportunity to lynch a scummy lurker. If you let the lurkers live, they just turn the later days into a coinflip for active town. so literally your only reason for wanting to keep GB alive is because there's potentially a better, lurkier player out there? Why don't you read the case on GB instead of using things that are not alignment indicative to get yourself off an actually good lynch? Also it's rather ironic coming from you that we should lynch into the lurkers. I would place you near the top of a lurk list if I had to make one. That's a fair point, but let me put it to you like this. I work 12 hour days a lot of the time. Sure, I can mostly keep up with the thread. But when it's back and forth nonstop, mostly with partially thought through arguments, BM, off-topic chitchat and otherwise, how are people like me supposed to get an edge in. I made four substantive posts last night on four different people and I don't think I got a single comment on them, really, except one from Brez. When I look at your back and forth with GB, I feel like I basically have to go back to the start of the game to understand where it truly came from, which is 90 pages worth of mostly trash.
you're right, and I agree with you. While I would consider you a lower activity poster I actually like the way you think and you pretty much exemplify what I was talking about earlier with respect to activity not being alignment indicative.
In this game I agree that there are some players who are not contributing that much, but like you said some or all of them very well could be town and just be discouraged from posting due to the sheer amounts of content (or filler) being constantly being dumped. That's actually an argument in favor of not lynching players like BF, who post rarely but when they do post you can actually make the argument that from a town perspective the reason that they sound the way they do is just because they have been discouraged from posting.
I think the only legitimately scummy lurker I would consider lynching right now is Onegu, but that's less because he's lurking and more because he actively admitted that he had a town read on LS but is still wasting his vote by leaving it on LS.
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On June 19 2015 05:39 Fidei86 wrote:
Well, I suppose I didn't mean that it wasn't serious, just that it isn't helpful. People need time in this game to re-read and re-consider posts, and to think about what people have said. I don't think that's what we have at the moment. No doubt somewhere in these pages there are some mafia slips, but we're likely going to miss them in the sheer volume.
That said, I'll go back and look over the GB debate again, since I should probably develop an opinion on it if it's all we're going to fight about for the next week ^^. I don't suppose I could be super lazy and ask you to give me a useful starting point (preferably one not before page 70, lol).
A good starting point would be around page 80, I guess 82 is the most relevant one.
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On June 19 2015 05:39 rsoultin wrote:
okay okay okay
enough
we don't need this wbg/fidei sidebar. if you're trying to get reads on each other save it for night
the time for pokes and prods and spam and shitfights is past, ne?
wbg, either your most concise post on the case against gb, please, or better yet break it down for me in short bullet format so i can see if it matches what i see when i dive gb
the other wagon is bf...and maybe ls?
main points against them if they've changed but i'm pretty sure i've caught up as it is on those two
i don't want to see any more talk right now about anyone you don't want to ACTUALLY LYNCH this day phase, and please cut out the sidebar conversations
thank you -_-
just read page 82 onward. My initial scum read of him was greatly strengthened by how he started attacking me back later, and then he slipped really hard several times. The initial read was primarily based on GB flipping his read of LS after LS claimed named VT, which I thought that a townie would not do. I also found it odd that he kept pushing low-hanging fruit like VA and despite stating that he wanted to consolidate or collaborate with me he never asked me anything or gave me any sort of real feedback on reads besides that one poke about whether I wanted to lynch VA. Anyway, from page 82 onward here's what happened.
1. GB claimed that it is antitown to not help town pare down the lynch list despite the fact that he himself was throwing reads around on multiple players. Indeed his latest case was on Breshke, someone I consider likely to be town and very unlikely to get lynched this cycle. Rather odd for GB to claim that not consolidating is antitown yet make a case on someone who's not gonna get lynched.
2. He claimed I was very willing to lynch lurkers last game, here:
Bugs you're scum because last game you were very inclined to lynch lurkers or at least tried to put pressure in them.
Which I called out as a misrepresentation of my play. In the previous game I tried to get him and LS lynched on day 1, both of whom were ACTIVE MAFIA.
3. He decided to double down on the above and I posted this in response to him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/487093-mafia-in-the-himalayas?page=83#1641
As you can see he quoted two sets of posts I made from the previous game in an attempt to say that I am scum here because I am not willing to lynch into lurkers. That was obviously not the case then and it's not the case now.
4. KSC's response to GB's Breshke "case" which was overall super shitty
5. VA and Shockeyy's points re: GB getting fake mad and typing in all caps as scum, with two different games as reference (last game in Witch in which myself and Shockeyy played against his scum and GoT mafia from VA)
6. HF's points and reinforcement of most of these things from his own perspective
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On June 19 2015 05:55 Lohengramm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2015 14:38 GlowingBear wrote:On June 18 2015 14:34 ritoky wrote:On June 18 2015 14:32 GlowingBear wrote:
This should be the lynch list to discuss today:
- Lohengramm
- ShoCkeyy
- Fidei86
- Breshke
- Mig
- VayneAuthority
- boxerfred
Not in order.
Rsoultin and ritoky, is there anyone from here you don't want to lynch today? the problem is that is a list of low post count/low hanging fruit in a lot of cases which means i am probably wrong somewhere, but w/e. breshke and fid would be the last 2 i lynch on that list atm, but if a case was made that was good i could be convinced. Lost post count is exactly what made this list + some scummy things in some of the filters. Like, if I had to put in order form LYNCH NOW to DUNNO LOL, it would be something like this: - Breshke - ShoCkeyy - Lohengramm - boxerfred - VayneAuthority - Mig - Fidei86 Yes, I totally flipped my read on Breshke I do wonder how this list was formed it seems kinda out of nowhere given his posting up to this point
his flip on Onegu was also really weird given that when he was town in another game he claimed that not giving reasons for reads/actions is scummy.
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On June 19 2015 05:54 Mig wrote:
I am on my phone, but got caught up
Ritoky - Guess what I dont know everyones alignment, if someone says something that looks townie to me I will say it. I didnt say that post made LS town but it made me reconsider the possibility of it. Explain to me how exactly this makes me mafia.
GB- are you voting BF because you think there is a good chance he flips scum or just to save yourself?
If the caps lock stuck isnt AI can you post an example of you doing it as town? I cant look through past games atm.
sup. care to read my posts on GB?
Also who do you intend on voting today?
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On June 19 2015 05:59 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 05:56 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 19 2015 05:55 Lohengramm wrote:On June 18 2015 14:38 GlowingBear wrote:On June 18 2015 14:34 ritoky wrote:On June 18 2015 14:32 GlowingBear wrote:
This should be the lynch list to discuss today:
- Lohengramm
- ShoCkeyy
- Fidei86
- Breshke
- Mig
- VayneAuthority
- boxerfred
Not in order.
Rsoultin and ritoky, is there anyone from here you don't want to lynch today? the problem is that is a list of low post count/low hanging fruit in a lot of cases which means i am probably wrong somewhere, but w/e. breshke and fid would be the last 2 i lynch on that list atm, but if a case was made that was good i could be convinced. Lost post count is exactly what made this list + some scummy things in some of the filters. Like, if I had to put in order form LYNCH NOW to DUNNO LOL, it would be something like this: - Breshke - ShoCkeyy - Lohengramm - boxerfred - VayneAuthority - Mig - Fidei86 Yes, I totally flipped my read on Breshke I do wonder how this list was formed it seems kinda out of nowhere given his posting up to this point his flip on Onegu was also really weird given that when he was town in another game he claimed that not giving reasons for reads/actions is scummy. ??? i see a reason in his filter, but if you want to ask him you can (like literally i'm looking at it right now lol ><)
if you mean that post in which he says he reevaluated because Onegu is lazy or whatever, I don't count that in his favor given that he says shit like this:
On June 19 2015 02:55 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 02:45 wherebugsgo wrote:also the thing on Mig is another lie. I didn't want to disclose my read on Mig and I didn't really have an interest in discussing anything with him because there was already so much going on and I needed to catch up. I also didn't ignore him at all which is a huge red flag for GB that he is clearly not reading my posts. Proof in point here: On June 18 2015 23:24 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 18 2015 23:13 rsoultin wrote:
God im scattered today sorry.
Also read on mig wbg since you know him better and wanted him to post. I'm a sucker for logic. Can he post like this as scum? Mig is pretty terrible as scum and a couple of his posts are actually pretty decent. They appear to be indicative that he is actually reading, which is a good sign. Mig is one of those players where if it looks like he is not reading he's probably scum. Even though he doesn't post much, as town he tends to make sense whereas when he is scum his reads aren't generally logically sensible. For example he pointed out that GB had no proper scum reads 55 pages in which is actually a pretty astute and subtle point. Like, sure, GB called some people scum but at no point in the game did he actually do anything about them-most of the time he's fishing for sentiment (e.g. asking me about VA) and in the LS case he was like "ok I'm gonna vote him too" and then he backed off at resistance from me. The tone and attitude in this post: On June 18 2015 08:37 Mig wrote:
Gbs plan is to try and look scummy, contribute nothing and then if you discuss anyone besides him calls you suspicious. Solid.
Do you actually believe any of my posts are coming from a mafia mindset Gb? Or are you just trying to paint me poorly since I actually questioned your posts. also made me feel much better about Mig because as I mentioned his mafia play is pretty shitty and this came off really strongly. I don't think scum Mig would make a post with this kind of bold response. here I responded to rsoultin's question on Mig. Saying that I've ignored him is wholly disingenuous and another reason GB is scum. LOL yeah, you ANSWERED a DIRECTED QUESTION. Congrats, you're totally not ignoring someone you SHOULD be interacting with WITHOUT being needed to being asked for. Argh, get out
you should probably hold a player to their own standards when it comes to read reasoning. Prior to him being asked this he didn't provide any reason to flip his read on Onegu, and in all honesty in the end saying you have a town read because he is lazy is not much of a reason in the first place
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On June 19 2015 06:05 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 05:51 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 19 2015 05:39 rsoultin wrote:
okay okay okay
enough
we don't need this wbg/fidei sidebar. if you're trying to get reads on each other save it for night
the time for pokes and prods and spam and shitfights is past, ne?
wbg, either your most concise post on the case against gb, please, or better yet break it down for me in short bullet format so i can see if it matches what i see when i dive gb
the other wagon is bf...and maybe ls?
main points against them if they've changed but i'm pretty sure i've caught up as it is on those two
i don't want to see any more talk right now about anyone you don't want to ACTUALLY LYNCH this day phase, and please cut out the sidebar conversations
thank you -_- just read page 82 onward. My initial scum read of him was greatly strengthened by how he started attacking me back later, and then he slipped really hard several times. The initial read was primarily based on GB flipping his read of LS after LS claimed named VT, which I thought that a townie would not do. I also found it odd that he kept pushing low-hanging fruit like VA and despite stating that he wanted to consolidate or collaborate with me he never asked me anything or gave me any sort of real feedback on reads besides that one poke about whether I wanted to lynch VA. Anyway, from page 82 onward here's what happened. 1. GB claimed that it is antitown to not help town pare down the lynch list despite the fact that he himself was throwing reads around on multiple players. Indeed his latest case was on Breshke, someone I consider likely to be town and very unlikely to get lynched this cycle. Rather odd for GB to claim that not consolidating is antitown yet make a case on someone who's not gonna get lynched. 2. He claimed I was very willing to lynch lurkers last game, here: Bugs you're scum because last game you were very inclined to lynch lurkers or at least tried to put pressure in them. Which I called out as a misrepresentation of my play. In the previous game I tried to get him and LS lynched on day 1, both of whom were ACTIVE MAFIA. 3. He decided to double down on the above and I posted this in response to him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/487093-mafia-in-the-himalayas?page=83#1641As you can see he quoted two sets of posts I made from the previous game in an attempt to say that I am scum here because I am not willing to lynch into lurkers. That was obviously not the case then and it's not the case now. 4. KSC's response to GB's Breshke "case" which was overall super shitty 5. VA and Shockeyy's points re: GB getting fake mad and typing in all caps as scum, with two different games as reference (last game in Witch in which myself and Shockeyy played against his scum and GoT mafia from VA) 6. HF's points and reinforcement of most of these things from his own perspective 1. eh, that's explained by him assuming that his list is The List, which that level of egocentrism is more likely town than scum, and breshke topped his list
What? Topped his list how? Breshke was a townread in his list, here:
On June 17 2015 11:51 GlowingBear wrote:Actual Listpost v1.0 Probs town- Breshke (thinking critically about the game)
On June 19 2015 06:05 rsoultin wrote:
2. his defense for this point is fine, actually, unless you're completely unwilling to lynch lurkers?
Given that you did not play in the previous game with us, I can potentially understand why you think this, but no, his defense was not fine. I am not willing to lynch lurkers when there are scummier people to lynch. This is not a binary "I do not want to lynch lurkers" or "I want to lynch lurkers" kind of problem and thinking in that way is oversimplifying the issue. The issue is that he misconstrued my play as saying I was willing to policy lynch lurkers in the previous game which a blatant misrepresentation.
On June 19 2015 06:05 rsoultin wrote:
3. eh...sadly i think you both are misrepresenting each other's arguments here tbh
Then you're not reading my posts properly. Or his, for that matter. Context matters, just go look at how he represents my play from the previous games and read the posts he quoted from Witchcraft. Ask LS if you need more confirmation, he was scum with GB that game and he agrees with me.
On June 19 2015 06:05 rsoultin wrote:
4. already said don't really care if gb made a bad case. he does that. nai
It's not just the case being bad, it's the way he presented it. Why would he spend 5-10 posts talking about how he's going to post a case on Breshke instead of just doing it without telegraphing it so hard? Why does he need to spend that time making it look like he's about to contribute something if he's town?
On June 19 2015 06:05 rsoultin wrote:
5. all caps he's done as town. again. nai
Source, please.
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On June 19 2015 06:12 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 06:06 Holyflare wrote:
onegu, shockey, yamato, ritoky and mig with the wasted votes and a lot of people completely ignoring what i write about bf
sweeeeet even if you're right that it's more null than scum, hf, i'm not seeing how most of this makes gb scum but i'm still parsing through it hypocrisy doesn't make people scum contradictions don't misrepresentations don't (people misunderstand things or see things differently all the time) you know what i'm saying? i just need to skip ahead to the ls read i think that's where the real money here is :/
no, none of those things made any sense.
Townies don't misrepresent people so blatantly, they would at least admit they are wrong when like five different people point to evidence that shows them how they are wrong.
Yet despite that happening GB continued to insist and flail around that what he said was true even though it was a complete lie.
Fabrications are entirely scum-motivated, it makes almost no sense for a townie to say what GB said regarding how I view the game.
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On June 19 2015 06:16 rsoultin wrote:
and no i don't have a ton of time to do all the research necessary for this so it needs to be something concrete and powerful rather than a collection of nitty gritty...i just...i don't think he's scum -_-
there's too much lightness and back and forth and reactivity and i know he's not good at reproducing that as scum. i know that i know that i know he's not. it's what made it so obvious when i read his smurf filter...he was focused on one thing for PAGES which isn't him, even when he's tunneled
wat
that's literally what he's doing this game re: his scum read of me.
The only difference is that he's probably self-aware of that now and his scum game actually isn't that bad. He was fairly convincing to everyone last game that he wasn't scum and they all yelled at me then for calling him scum.
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On June 19 2015 06:19 GlowingBear wrote:My defenses: Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 04:50 GlowingBear wrote:
I want you guys calling me scum to explain this:
1) Why would I bother building a case on Breshke if boxerfred is town? I could simply just agree with Holyflare and lynch him and fuck off.
2) Why would I call out tunnelus maximus bugs as mafia, knowing he would go against me? Why drawing so much attention?
3) Why would I, as mafia, intentionally flip my reads and call people mafia instead of keeping cool blending in with possible town?
4) Why would I bother creating a lynch list and try to organise town?
5) Why would, as mafia, call LS out but NOT voting him, unless we are mafia together? But as you can see, we can't be mafia together because he is willing to lynch me out of nothing.
I want you all to answer these. Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 05:01 GlowingBear wrote:On June 19 2015 04:56 Holyflare wrote:On June 19 2015 04:50 GlowingBear wrote:
I want you guys calling me scum to explain this:
1) Why would I bother building a case on Breshke if boxerfred is town? I could simply just agree with Holyflare and lynch him and fuck off.
2) Why would I call out tunnelus maximus bugs as mafia, knowing he would go against me? Why drawing so much attention?
3) Why would I, as mafia, intentionally flip my reads and call people mafia instead of keeping cool blending in with possible town?
4) Why would I bother creating a lynch list and try to organise town?
5) Why would, as mafia, call LS out but NOT voting him, unless we are mafia together? But as you can see, we can't be mafia together because he is willing to lynch me out of nothing.
I want you all to answer these. 1) You have done absolutely no cases the entire thread and it's been 48 hours and you basically had no scum reads, I and several others had called you out for this. You were forced to make a case and it was bad as a result. 2) You have a MAJOR HABIT OF DOING THIS. Do not sit there and ask me why when in Game of Thrones YOU DID THE EXACT SAME THING TO ME WHEN YOU WERE MAFIA ROFL. 3) to appear "carefree" since someone has mentioned multiple times that you don't stick to people as mafia or whatever, the flaw is that you had little reasoning and absolutely no follow up and little care about what happened 4) lynching lurkers is the easiest cop out and YOU DIDN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ANY OF THE CASES TO LYNCH MAFIA..............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 5) because you suck and know he does it as town all the fucking time and you'd look terrible if he flipped named vt 1) I wasn't FORCED, I did becauase I wanted to. He looks mafia to me. I could simply NOT make a case and survive if I was mafia. 2) I don't usually go after the big names when I'm mafia, this is not true. 3) So you think I would be THIS careless as scum? I've posted a full thought process in my reads in Game of Thrones Mafia. You know I'm capable of doing it, and incredibly, I do it better as scum. 4) You know I always advocate that as town. As mafia, of course I could use the plynch as a cop out, but I would NOT open the possibilities to town to CHOOSE who not to lynch. I would take the other way: influence their reads instead letting them influence mine. UNLESS you think ALL mafia are active, letting town choose who to lynch is almost suicidal. 5) This is a lazy answer and you're lazy to think this through. Read my question again and think again. Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 05:08 GlowingBear wrote:On June 19 2015 04:59 Holyflare wrote:On June 19 2015 04:07 Holyflare wrote:On June 19 2015 03:52 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 19 2015 03:49 Holyflare wrote:On June 19 2015 03:09 wherebugsgo wrote:
actually rsoultin, Mig, Breshke and HF I want to read your opinions on GB too. Maybe at least one of you will respond so I have something to work with. We have like 5 hours and I don't want to lynch either BF or LS today Quite clearly stated i scum read him and the reasons why. Will be back in about an hour to talk about stuff. +gb where did i ever say the mafia team was all lurkers other than a sarcastic jab at you a while ago? care to jog my memory? I recall you posting something pointing out the consolidation thing but you can pretend I'm a goldfish for the purposes of this exercise. I just want to know that you have real opinions I can trust. But of course if you don't wanna play we can have it your way  Well it's on my last page of filter? Pretty much pushed gb all last night. Summary is: Hypocritical outlook on the game between you and himself Sheeps me while expressing disdain for the sheep (game of thrones meta same) Reads + questions that don't get followed up, aka va stuff etc (scum read on me completely vanished too) Started to afk and not do shit Got called out by me and still didn't do shit apart from asking me useless questions Said boxerfed read was shit, stayed on wagon anyway because of his read on boxerfreds first post???? Randomly nitpicked ls for no reason and then gave him a town pass for stuff that ls had already done before the nitpicking Says game is bad because no consolidation but just flat out refuses to even read cases on scummy people did no scum hunting while complaining about no consolidation Lurker cop out reasoning Misrepresents you and breshke hardcore Fake rage (game of thrones meta same) Probably shit tonne more that i forgot but this is top of my head this is a good reason to vote for mafia gb 1st point: hypocritical is an arbitrary interpretation. 2nd point: just because I did that as scum doesn't mean I wouldn't do it as town. 3rd point: reads and questions that didn't follow up were part of reaction testing and information gathering, which I think is the best thing to do day1 4th point: I don't think they were useless - again, arbitrary interpretation 5th point: Never said your read was shit, I said I could see him coming from a town perspective from the things you wrote and that I scumread him for another interpretation that considered MORE than his first post. 6th point: got tunneled because he said some stupid shit and got outside the tunnel thanks to rsoultin. Again, why would I do this unless we are scum together? 7th point: I am giving reads on EVERYONE. If they aren't thourough, that's another matter. I refused to TALK about active people because we could deal with them on day2, but since EVERYONE completely IGNORED this plead, I started calling out things. I attempt to consolidate by building a lynch list. 8th point: Lurker policy lynch is something I always do day1 as town, stop being stupid 9th point: Fake rage was 1 post and I always do that as town, you can't compare ONE SINGLE CAPS LOCK to what happened in Game of Thrones. It is completely different.
my rebuttal:
On June 19 2015 04:59 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 04:50 GlowingBear wrote:
I want you guys calling me scum to explain this:
1) Why would I bother building a case on Breshke if boxerfred is town? I could simply just agree with Holyflare and lynch him and fuck off. not alignment indicative. Also doesn't play to your style as mafia anyway so this is a completely moot point. Why telegraph for like 5 posts that you are ABOUT to post a case on Breshke instead of just posting it outright? We could come up with a hundred different completely null questions just like this one, none of them say anything about your alignment. What does say a lot about your alignment is how shitty that Breshke case was, though. WBG: 1 GB: 0 Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 04:50 GlowingBear wrote:
2) Why would I call out tunnelus maximus bugs as mafia, knowing he would go against me? Why drawing so much attention? Another alignment-null point. You called me mafia when you were scum last game, so this is obviously not alignment indicative. You've already proven that as mafia you're willing to OMGUS people, and it happens to be amazingly convenient that last game it was me. WBG: 2 GB: 0 Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 04:50 GlowingBear wrote:
3) Why would I, as mafia, intentionally flip my reads and call people mafia instead of keeping cool blending in with possible town? Another alignment-null point. Both alignments flip their reads when they think they need to. Town do it when they think they are wrong or unlikely to be sheeped and scum do it when they think they have more to gain out of killing someone else or appearing better because they decided to go against a wagon when they know the wagon is going to result in killing a townie. And again this does not hash with your style as mafia where you can actually be very up front and confrontational, e.g. last game. "Blending in" is not necessarily a universal scum trait. WBG: 3 GB: 0 Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 04:50 GlowingBear wrote:
4) Why would I bother creating a lynch list and try to organise town?
Any scum can create a lynch list and I even pointed it out earlier in the game. One of the hallmarks of scum is providing laundry lists of "reads". You also didn't try to organise town despite saying how much you wanted it. You could've asked me lots of questions after I agreed that we should work together yet you asked me things that were apparently for "reaction testing". Instead of organising and talking to people you threw around unbased reads and never once followed through on a suspicion except when I started pushing you seriously and you decided to OMGUS me. Nice attempt at making yourself look better, though. Too bad I caught it too quickly for you. WBG: 4 GB: 0 Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 04:50 GlowingBear wrote:
5) Why would, as mafia, call LS out but NOT voting him, unless we are mafia together? But as you can see, we can't be mafia together because he is willing to lynch me out of nothing.
I want you all to answer these. Oh cool, another alignment-null indicator. Sometimes mafia are unwilling to vote for people they call out because they know when they're wrong they'll take attention. So perhaps you know that you are wrong about LS and you don't want to call him out. Of course it would also look really desperate for you to switch from BF to LS on shaky and weak reasoning, particularly if you have to fabricate it, because that's really hard. WBG: 5 GB: 0 Oh and if you actually believe BF is scum with me perhaps you should try to convince others why we should lynch BF over you, since there's 0 chance I'm going to die today and your vote hasn't moved, so I assume you're not even going to try to get me lynched. But, despite saying you want to organise town you have made no effort to organise an effort behind BF. WBG: 6 GB: 0
We could do this all day, though sadly there's only 30 minutes left.
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THE HAMMER OF JUSTICE
has been dropped
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On June 19 2015 06:26 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 06:18 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 19 2015 06:16 rsoultin wrote:
and no i don't have a ton of time to do all the research necessary for this so it needs to be something concrete and powerful rather than a collection of nitty gritty...i just...i don't think he's scum -_-
there's too much lightness and back and forth and reactivity and i know he's not good at reproducing that as scum. i know that i know that i know he's not. it's what made it so obvious when i read his smurf filter...he was focused on one thing for PAGES which isn't him, even when he's tunneled wat that's literally what he's doing this game re: his scum read of me. The only difference is that he's probably self-aware of that now and his scum game actually isn't that bad. He was fairly convincing to everyone last game that he wasn't scum and they all yelled at me then for calling him scum. dude i literally called him out by looking at his filter for two minutes that game so when you speak to me about how "good" his scumgame is, realize that his "good" scumgame i caught in seconds. i'm not saying you couldn't be right on his alignment but i'm saying it's the read you're trashing that allowed me to catch him and no, he's not focusing solely on you, wbg...not at all looking at his filter :/ hf...i told you i don't have the time for the nitty gritty so stop trying to bully me...it makes me want to kick you in the ankles and run away laughing
you're not good, and it doesn't matter because literally no one can validate what you are saying and it wasn't in a game.
You have 0 substantiation for any of your points in his defense, like literally the only thing we have to go off is your word. It's pretty flimsy in a game where evidence is supremely important
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EPT
