[M][N]Holy Guardians Chapter 1
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
| ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
| ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
1v1 me m8 | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
I don't know who you are either lol As for kickstart's post, I also played some games in 2012/2013 I believe. I'll go back and see if I played with any of you people | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 03 2015 07:49 VisceraEyes wrote: Hi guys! I've read most of the game so far and I don't like most of the reasons people are tossing around for calling others mafia. I don't think it makes the people giving them mafia though, so I'm not gonna name any names. Suffice to say: before you post that something makes someone else mafia, consider if they'd do it as town before you get your tunnel on. This has been a public service announcement by VisceraEyes. So far the person that sticks out the most to me is Chocolate. Aside from a vote, this is his only post in the game. Does "weirdly cheery" make ticktock mafia? Without context, this post just looks like he's trying to be seen in the thread, which is consistent with mafia trying to hide in plain sight. Why does a townie Chocolate even make this post? Further, in his vote post he wants tick to "1v1 me mate"....which if the lynch is boiled down to Chocolate/ticktock then I'm lynching Chocolate 100 times out of 100 based on what's in the thread right now....if he's town and wants ticktock to interact with him, then why does he disappear? m8 I had to go eat dinner and wanted to stir up some discussion with what little was present in the thread Reading the rest of the thread now | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 03 2015 08:05 VisceraEyes wrote: This is fine, and I'm in no position to dispute it's validity - but I will say that you SAID you were going to check something out, not that you were grabbing dinner. DID you go check to see if you'd played with anyone else? Yeah I just checked, didn't find anything. I have one mafia and one town game from the very early newbie mini mafia days Also if you're going to get on me for not being on all the time, you're going to have a bad time. I'm going to try to post as much as possible when I'm able but it's unreasonable to expect me to drop other things I'm doing (I'm on vacation atm) for a forum mafia game On June 03 2015 08:06 ritoky wrote: what discussion were you hoping to stir with that comment? anything really, I stand by my initial gut feeling that trying to seem overly "town-friendly" without adding content is scummy. Obviously I had very little to work with though. I don't really have a strong read either way on him either way atm Right now I'd say Kickstart stands out to me as suspicious. Same with scott though obviously with much less to base it on. I don't like how VE is tunneling me but I don't think it's an inherently scum thing to do | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 03 2015 08:33 ritoky wrote: What specifically about scott's play thus far has made him suspicious to you? Just him siding with kickstarter. his posts don't reveal much at all so far. however, I think due to the low content and neutrality of his posts that he may be playing the lurker role which tends to be one that scum takes | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
However I still don't like KS. He seems to be posting too bossily and with too much authority for a normal day 1 poster | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 03 2015 08:39 ritoky wrote: So it is purely associative? Do you think him going back and looking through my database of games is alignment indicative? Yes, it was a post made in support of another player and if I am reading the post in the context of the thread correctly, it had nothing to spurn it (another players' accusations, etc.) No, I don't think going through the DB is alignment indicative at all. I do think that in most cases reading the DB can be helpful if there are vast differences in play style depending on alignment but people change as they play too, it's silly to get overly caught up in meta | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 03 2015 08:50 VisceraEyes wrote: @Chocolate Yeah I don't expect anyone to be on all the time. My point has very little to do with your lack of activity and everything to do with the way you framed your absence. But whatever, it's a minor thing and something I'm willing to overlook for the time being. You say you're caught up now, but that your only actual suspicion is Kickstart from what I can see - and it's for posting with too much authority? And scott, for agreeing with Kickstart? Is this accurate? More than just that. I think he's trying to guide the discussion in a direction he wants to a high degree. He has also been quick to move around which makes sense but I generally don't really like a ton Those aren't my only suspicions, they're just ones I was comfortable posting for the time being I'd like to know your thoughts on other people too though | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 03 2015 08:54 Damdred wrote: And where are you at again in reads ks? I also would like to know this | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
@ VE do you have any opinions about people other than me and milo | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
##vote VisceraEyes Curious what others think about him tunneling me and milo As for milo's "scum slip" if you read the thread it was only after I had said I was away that milo said I was away. I don't understand VE's logic here at all. For a veteran player you're playing pretty dumb imo | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 03 2015 10:46 Kickstart wrote: After addressing everyone getting a tryhard/bossy vibe from me, do you still find me suspicious? Does my defense that this is normal from me change your opinion at all? I agree with the town reads part, that is why I don't like to give them this early but since I was asked for opinions on more than just milo i did give a few. Do you still find scott and myself to be most suspicious or has that changed? Yes it changes it a lot, I don't find you any more suspicious than most others at this point. I figure maybe wanting to direct things is a personality trait or something I'm still suspicious of scott though, because he apparently read about half of what we've posted today and yet only came up with a very "safe" (in the sense that it makes sense to call the most active player town) read | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 03 2015 10:56 Kickstart wrote: Also I don't want to speak for VE, but milo saying you afk was weird. At the time I didnt point it out because he did but since then I did say a bit about it. For one we can't be sure you are afk because you said you were going to go through stuff (but then went to eat dinner, which is fine, you just stated you were doing otherwise as the reason for your inactivity at the time). What I found most odd was the "he cant defend himself", because to me that makes no sense at all, even if you were afk, its forum mafia, you just come back and read it and respond :/. But mostly I would like for you to expand on why your vote is on VE! "it was only after I had said I was away that milo said I was away" it doesn't make sense to me either. But to be fair I think he was giving me too much shit for posting and going away for a bit and that being scummy. I think he is scum because: He hasn't changed positions on anyone His only interactions of substance have been with me and milo I think he is taking a misinterpretation of what someone else said too far as a "scum-slip" His posts have a dismissive tone Whatever it's fine. Expand on your VE read if you please - I've been just exploding town all over this thread. You say there's been a lack of reads out of me. I say that doesn't make me mafia. I say that I've contributed at least one mafia read, and that's the person I want to lynch, and now I'm also willing to lynch you. On June 03 2015 09:54 VisceraEyes wrote: You've conceded SEVERAL points to me this game so far milo. I've had to correct SEVERAL mistakes in your posts. Why are you saying that I'M the one who needs to use logic? There's no illusion, there are facts in the thread. A timeline of actual events. That's my proof. What's yours? In the future, just don't bring up your teammates ESPECIALLY if someone is drawing attention to them. Trust THEM to dig themselves out. Otherwise you end up digging BOTH of you a grave. Which really bothers me I see no reason to tunnel someone so hard out of the blue I don't think he's scum because: He's posting a lot While I get a scum feeling from dogging someone so early, it's something that would at the same time be dumb to do as a mafia player milo's post does look like a slip | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
Regardless I'd like to see more reads from VE because ultimately that will determine how I feel about him | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
| ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
VE Onegu GG I would pick Scott as my #1 | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
His only contribution of note was to call a very active player town which seems way too conservative | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
That's not very difficult to do Even so, I would consider doing the bare minimum to be suspiciously inactive | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
I do want to lynch you. It looks like a slip superficially but if you read the post in context clearly it is not. So I inderstand why you may have interpreted the post that way but I think you took it too far | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
| ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 04 2015 10:57 Kickstart wrote: Took a nap cause I was feeling like shit and moody, probably came through in my posting. Lots of people have taken issue with my Nydus town read. I just want to say again that it was hastily done and I just said it off the top of my head because people were pressuring me to give more town reads (which again I don't find fair since I gave them, but people are greedy and wanted more and I reacted badly). It can be ignored and I have tried to explain why it happened, I will have to reevaluate him later but like I said I would probably not lynch him at the moment. this post is scummy as hell and just screams to me that you're just trying to survive | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 04 2015 04:11 scott31337 wrote: I'm back now - I do not like this post. It really does not say much and have any conclusions - although he shares the same ideas with VE as I do - I'm going to keep an eye on him for now. Damdred never did reply to my meta question and has magic meta townreads, but we wait until Day 2 unless something comes up. VE is noting Chocolate is trying to get a easy ML on me, I like where he's going with this - and I don't think it's a VE pocket, although I've seen him play like that either way. From how Milo defended himself I believe he is town. I still like Kickstart although the thread consensus seems to be the opposite. I'll reread a few pages of the thread I was pretty blitzed last night when I did so. no need to freak out on me, think about what I saw and it's a fairly logical read few posts, evidence of reading, one post saying "yeah this player that's contributing a lot looks good" obviously now that you have contributed more I have more to base things on but come on | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
also it was a case of someone with pros and cons vs. someone who seemed to only have cons | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 04 2015 11:32 Tictock wrote: Ok last thing I was wanting to reread and look at for now. This whole VE, Chocolate, and Milo thing. VE struck me as town pretty easily, prob something I need to recheck but I'm prob going to go with it today. Not sure I like how tunneled he seems to be. He made one post which looked like he was willing to drop it, but now he seems to be right back on Chocolate like he's peanut butter or something... + Show Spoiler + Sorry, that was weak. I'll stop trying to be funny... As for choclate himself, he''s kinda just OMGUS right back at VE. Milo isn't going this route, but he is clearly frustrated by the whole thing... My personal opinion is that that all 3 are probably town here and are just over reacting to a rather stupid "he's afk" comment. I don't expect anything fruitful to come from this interaction. This post in Chocolate's filter caught my eye though... At first that sounds reasonable, but then I have to stop and think. Isn't it just as easy, or beneficial, for Mafia to be putting a lot of scum onto people? Also for someone who is putting alot of emphasis on scum reads being important I can't help but look at his list of people he'd like to lynch. 2 people who were not very present in the game, VE, and GG. I can't find a read on GG from Choco in his filter at all, so really VE is his only real read here. That doesn't seem like very decent scum reads to me from a guy who is stressing their importance. @ Choco I see your more active atm. Care to update us on your scum reads? VE for previously stated reasons, it isn't purely an OMGUS though of course that is probably it to a large extent KS I'm beginning to think is a bit fishier but it's a small hunch I have a very hard time reading damdred , you, and ritoky. Admittedly I kinda have a hard time reading the newer players too (because I subconsciously associate posts with icons lol) but tomorrow I'm going to go through them all again Onegu has pretty much been a shitposter so far which I don't like and don't think is good for town As for not liking town reads, for me it's because anyone I don't think is scum I am leaning towards null or town on (in which case I wouldn't want to lynch them). It can also restrict thinking - we need to, and do, change who we think may be scum somewhat frequently. With town, since calling a given poster town is usually held to less scrutiny, we can let that label linger and it can affect our reads [to everyone] Don't be offended if I call you or something you did scummy especially on the first day. There's very little to work on and since I don't think calling people town is productive I don't make a lot of friends | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
"him siding with kickstarter" to "he apparently read about half of what we've posted today and yet only came up with a very "safe" (in the sense that it makes sense to call the most active player town) read" to "What good is it to say "X player seems town"? There's no risk at all in that situation. " to "General inactivity His only contribution of note was to call a very active player town which seems way too conservative" it wasn't policy per se, IDK where you're getting that from. it was inactivity combined with conservative play | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
ritoky I don't why you're so interested in an early vote that obviously would eventually be changed most votes in the beginning of the game are just to make people talk if I do end up getting lynched I will post a final will and testament (if I have time) for now I will vote VE in the official thread | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
I'm going to keep my vote on him for now but only because I'm not sure who I read as most scummy. anyway here are some reads for some low post-count reads (like I said earlier they had been all jumbled up in my mind) Nydus - not a lot to work with but seems conservative yet quite reasonable. null Fidei - agree with almost all of his posts milo - I lean towards town, he could be trying to pocket (is this the correct use of the word?) me though, nonetheless I think he has been very reasonable everyone else onegu - posting has been shit and IDK why nobody seems to have a problem with it VE - I OMGUSed him a little hard and he returned the favor. however he still hasn't dropped me at all. I kinda want to die now just to make him look stupid sicklucker - same boat as onegu GGT - not really sure why people are super convinced he's scum anymore, I read his filter again and while I do find his posting suspicious it's not nearly as bad as some other people's. I'm not convinced enough to hop on a bandwagon about him. Though I think if he is scum, rather than defending him, people are just trying to bury his discussion under other stuff KS - quite a roller coaster ride of my reads on him. I find it highly unlikely he is mafia at this point simply because if he wants to keep up his volume of posting and is mafia then he will probably be easy to identify. Also @KS, me "throwing votes everywhere" is how I play. Like I said earlier I don't like to call people town, and as a result I don't make many friends ritoky - I agree with most of what he says except the things about me and scott. from my perspective pushing scott was very logical and you even thought he was scummy at some point too you bozo. hard to read TT - I pretty much just like his reads other than the GGT read scott - didn't like what he was doing at first, now I think he has been making very good points especially about GGT damdred - hard to read, seems to be setting himself up to bandwagon on me, I like about 80% of his posts I think that's everyone | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 05 2015 00:27 VisceraEyes wrote: No comment on the even more sudden GGTemp wagon¿ Yes I think it's utter bullshit | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
1. it's easy to hide as mafia if you never contribute 2. even if they are town they aren't very helpful unless someone makes a very good case for someone else or wants to vote one of these people with me I'll probably just leave my vote on VE because it looks like he isn't going to get lynched and (I think) we need to vote for at least somebody | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 05 2015 00:35 VisceraEyes wrote: Frankly the bit about wanting to die just to make me look stupid is probably the towniest thing Chocolate has said. That's NOT a good thing. :/ yeah and you relentlessly tunneling me is going to look REALLY towny when I die | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
| ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
that is just not true honestly you're pissing me off and making me not want to play the game anymore. I suck at mafia, OK, whatever. I've only played two games before this and I lost. just kill me then because it isn't fun having some guy go NOPE YOU'RE MAFIA DIE DUMB SCUM | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
| ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
sorry for getting emotional guys | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 05 2015 01:54 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Also, the main reason I don't really have a read on VE/chocolate is I just don't find their interaction very meaningful or useful at all with regards to solving their alignment. In reading the thread it just didn't stick or to me or seem interesting at all. I would like to see their thoughts on myself/tictock/kickstart interaction and of damdred's vs scott's analysis of it. While I was unable to really discern either damdred's or scott's analysis from their content regarding me/tictock/kickstart, I believe they have spent a lot of time focusing on it. One of them is probably mafia as well tbh. I don't really see you guys as mafia and I don't think either TT or KS is scum at the moment, just misguided town | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
I'm going to read everything again but I never found much of it compelling milo I encourage you to change your vote to Onegu rather than VE because it looks like most people don't really want to vote on VE currently | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
I think reading too much into meta is giving people passes to not be active or play well, which is generally not good I still don't really understand the push on GGT | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 05 2015 04:31 ritoky wrote: This is the 2nd person to lightly deflect off of SL in recent memory....what exactly has he done to warrant this? very good point | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
| ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
"Hounds people for reads but when confronted for his own reads he gives only smoke scum read that is rehashed fom others in the thread, sl scum read at this point is an afterthought and feels contrived." "you come back to the thread, start yelling and OMGUSing damdred and jump off a wagon losing steam onto the other popular one for a meh reason." walls of text, I don't know if you consciously write them for this reason but I have a hard time focusing on them and if I see a bunch of new posts I kinda just skip over them at first still don't really like his first post lol and now he bandwagons on me for ?? my vote is also partially grounded in a will to survive since I hope that with my vote and possibly a change on the part of ritoky I won't die D1 at least | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
| ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
ok let me try to generally address the points against me 1. the scott vote he wasn't posting, had a general town read and nothing else at the moment, very easy way for scum to play it safe, I don't feel he is scum at all at the moment since he has posted a lot more since then 2. going scott over VE uhhh it was pretty far before the end of the day and it was a case of pros and cons vs. only cons at the moment 3. I seen scummy because I've been defending all game It's a cycle. If I don't defend myself, I get called dodgy scum. If I defend myself, I seem to be scrambling. In either case I have to spend a lot of my time and posts defending myself which continues to call attention to myself possibly being scum 4. switching votes a lot tictock vote meant next to nothing, scott vote was imo logical at the time it was made, VE vote was slightly OMGUSing, onegu vote I continue to stand by but if you guys want to interpet meta to the detriment of town I can't stop you, KS I don't want to die, he seems scummy (and for my next post I'll try to be more formal why), and bandwagoned me if there's anything else scummy you want to bring up about me then shoot | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
damn KS you have a lot of words will do scotty | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 05 2015 05:36 Tictock wrote: Is it a bad sign that this logic pleases me since I'm reading them both as scum? GG's vote just seems like it's too hand wavey justified to me. I guess you put a lot more faith into this theory of play than I do, but to each their own on playstyle choice. Choco has been making similarly bad scumreads and votes. This switch onto Kick seems really scummy to me as well. is it scummy to not want to die? seems pretty logical to me @scott from scummy to not scum Kickstart VisceraEyes Tictock Onegu sicklucker Damdred GGTemplar ritoky milo scott31337 NydusHerMain Fidei86 (maybe trying to clear himself in the future by siding with me)? NydusHerMain, I don't really know | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
sorry for formatting in a hurry "Took a nap cause I was feeling like shit and moody, probably came through in my posting. Lots of people have taken issue with my Nydus town read. I just want to say again that it was hastily done and I just said it off the top of my head because people were pressuring me to give more town reads (which again I don't find fair since I gave them, but people are greedy and wanted more and I reacted badly). It can be ignored and I have tried to explain why it happened, I will have to reevaluate him later but like I said I would probably not lynch him at the moment." backpedaling and trying to appease everybody "After addressing everyone getting a tryhard/bossy vibe from me, do you still find me suspicious? Does my defense that this is normal from me change your opinion at all? I agree with the town reads part, that is why I don't like to give them this early but since I was asked for opinions on more than just milo i did give a few. Do you still find scott and myself to be most suspicious or has that changed?" more appeasement "Again milo I think you are focusing too much on me just because I was pressuring you so hard. That is fine I guess but I still would like to hear thoughts on someone aside from me you find scummy, or am I the only one at this point? Your points in my case I don't find particularly good either but I can address those later if people think they hold weight, for now I will work on posting reads on people aside from you as I have had multiple requests to do so." evasion "That said, is milo still slight town and I still slight scum to you? Are there any other reads you can give besides us two at this point?" evasion "Well me OMGUSing everything is a stretch. I went on milo and sl before they even mentioned me, and my read on GGT is the same with or without him directing anything at me. I am generally of the opinion that town reads aren't of much use D1, but I was pressured to name some earlier and I named yourself and VE, for basically the same reasons. I felt that you were both applying pressure when needed, you were both driving discussion, and both were being open and honest with your thoughts - all of which I think is helpful and thus I feel that you have been helpful for town up to this point. Does that mean I think you are both 100% town? No, but I feel confident in saying that I would not vote on either of you this cycle. To be honest the only other person I feel is slightly town atm is Nydus, but definitely not on the same level as you two. I have real issues with almost everyone else who I havent mentioned because I just feel their posts are void of strong feelings and I don't like that style of play. Namely I feel like Damdred, scott, Onegu, and Fideu (just off the top of my head) are not giving us anything to work with, their posts are void of reads and strong opinions, and while Damdred has asked a lot of questions and put a bit of pressure on at times, he is still guilty of not giving us his thoughts (though he said this is how he plays and that he will wait to make a stronger case when he is ready - which I intend to hold him too, if Day 1 ends and he is still guilty of what I outlined above I will have some real questions about him because he has been active enough and seems experiences and good enough to give some solid reads but has yet to do so). I think scott and fideu are new so I can understand the reluctance to stick their necks out on anything but I don't feel that is a real excuse, they still need to share their thoughts on things. Onegu seems to have arrived late on the scene but already his posting style is suspicious to me, much too much joking around; while this is normal and understandable at the start of the game, I feel like there is plenty of content to actually address, which he has not done. Can anyone tell me if this is normal posting from Onegu?" verbal diarrhea which confused me, probably others "id mention my issues with chocolate before and it seems he is getting a lot of heat atm, will see that happens there." "well I'd like to bandwagon but I don't want to be held accountable for it" | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
| ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
Onegu and SL need to contribute more (though I do see why SL isn't posting much) and if they don't then don't give a free pass because "meta lol" VE and KS seem the most scummy to me, TT too maybe, Fidei or milo may be trying to pocket me so don't clear them upon my death | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
| ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
| ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
Right now I have close to no idea who scum is but I'd say prolly not GGT and maybe Shen or VE | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
In fact I feel that if I die and flip town a milo/fid/GGT team could be quite possible | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
Don't really have enough time to write out a long post on why I think that sorry, I'm on my phone in colonial Williamsburg lol | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
Hopefully I have some time in the next few hours to make a vote, if not sorry | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
| ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
Don't wanna vote GGT because I think he's town. GGT makes a compelling case (I know this is a shitty reason to vote someone but I had no time today) and since I think he's town I'm going TT Really sorry for not being more productive, when I get back home I promise I'll kick the posting up a notch | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
If I were scum I'd never be as inactive as SL was the first day, even if I were about to get replaced Shen being very active today tells me more that he is trying to do town more of a service than dispel the read people were getting on sl He was also pushed moderately day1 before and after I brought it up which I don't have a good reason to feel suspicious but strikes me as fishy (though I do recognize that I was part of that crowd) | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
VE someone else are mafia Just got to find #3 | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 08 2015 06:37 Damdred wrote: That's sad but chocolate is probably mafia here probably you are #3 scott why the FUCK would you want to vote me | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 08 2015 10:44 Shendelzare wrote: +1. I haven't seen much in the way of reasoning on any of your reads. Besides OMGUS. Now I'm out. I am going to post a decent amount tomorrow via phone because I have a very long car ride. Next day I will probably be pretty active | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
Both call each other town pretty early on Both push votes on townies (though of course I am not confirmed townie) As soon as I park a very early vote on TT, VE scum reads me I'm pretty sure all of TTs d1 list (GG, me, milo, SL) is town and gives him flexibility to bandwagon as he pleases Additionally, although his posts regarding me are all cautious (need to read more, you are all three probably town) he puts me second on his list I'll read n1 and d2 soon too but again I'm on my phone so it takes me a while to structure a post adequately Still not sure who third scum is, at this point I'm finding damdred unlikely | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
| ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
| ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 09 2015 03:06 Shendelzare wrote: I swear every post I read from you at this point screams mafia and it reminds me of that horrible case you had on KS day one. I would have hammered you if I was in play then because of the way you are framing your points. What is making either Tic/VE scum reads for their reads on each other? Like I said pushing votes on townies alone does not make some scum it's how they do it. Also the point about the D1 list is questionable when you don't consider how he prioritized or supported his reads, and having four scum reads means he's wrong on at least one so how he changes those reads should be more important at this stage. I had four scum reads when I gave my first list post so I knew I was wrong somewhere and I knew I had to re-evaluate. He is doing that FYI and so are a few others. I also find it interesting you find Damdred unlikely since at least one other player cites him for being cautious and you're calling Tic cautious so considering at least half this field is scum reading you (and if you haven't figured out already you are my top target) you might want to start pointing out some differences in where you're coming from once you're on a computer otherwise you're going to be held accountable for double standards in your reads. What? It's not the fact that he has four scum reads, it's the fact that I think all of them are town Them supporting each other is not a scum read in itself but it strengthens my scum read on each of them I still need to fully evaluate damdred but since he was getting a lot of heat from TT he wouldn't fit in my hypothetical scum team | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 09 2015 02:45 Shendelzare wrote: No. Just no. Maybe you're new to this so maybe I shouldn't be so harsh. Just because you all share the same reads does not necessarily mean all of you are town. That is very faulty reasoning since a scum player has perfect information (they absolutely know who is town) all he or she has to do is fake reads. The lack of skepticism (or substantiation) usually indicates someone is scum which actually would make some of the players defending Templar suspect as there were ample reasons to question his behaviour and at least two of us tried to give him a chance to work with town and resolve the issues he had but he blatantly refused. I went into Tictock's case for that very reason day two because if is he scum, there is going to be a problem somewhere in that case or his approach to things. Townies pushing townies is a lot more common than you think and it happens for many reasons. I will say this yet again being right does not make someone town and being town does not mean they will have the right reads. I fully agree with this fwiw | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
However, in my mind it was either me dying (I know I'm town) vs KS dying (20% chance he is mafia, 7% chance he is blue) So given what I knew it was only logical to persuade others to kill him and for me to seek self preservation | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
Two games before this, one as mafia, one as town | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
They were from 2012 though, and since I'm not very old I have changed a lot since then | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
| ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
Fair enough, I'll be able to be a lot more active now (though atm formatting is difficult so it's hard to build a formal case) No way I die tonight though so I'll be able to do some good work tomorrow | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
| ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 09 2015 17:54 Tictock wrote: I realized I haven't looked at Choco's filter lately... And now i know why. There has been like one page of filter since EoD1... this is D3 now right? Most of that is excuses and some other stuff. Here is what I picked out as interesting... His first effort at doing something after disappearing after D1. Which flips pretty quick... Then he takes this stand... Really? Choco thinks GG has the most compelling case D2? Wasn't he scumming GG? What is Choco thinking himself though? There he goes back on VE suddenly... He also threw out this weak read on Shen Sorry it's not much of a case... but that's all there was in his filter. The flip in his reads looks pretty odd to me. It weakens my idea of Milo and Choco being scum partners that Choco would even suggest Milo as scum, but he takes back to read fairly fast so I'm not sure. He also flips really hard on GG while giving no reasons. I also dislike how VE just suddenly pops back up in Choco's scum reads. I find it especially interesting because it looks like he does this AFTER he starts scumming me, then gives some weak association to backup why. Honestly none of it looks good. Ve has been a pretty strong scum read of mine for a while, I just haven't been able to convince anyone else for a while so it's not something I'm going to keep pushing | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 09 2015 17:59 Tictock wrote: I think I'll stop there for the night. I'm starting to like the idea of a scumteam of Choco, Milo, and Fidei atm... Milo being scum makes a lot more sense if Choco is scum. I could also see Fidei being on the team since he has been supporting Choco a fair bit for very little reason. Funny, I think all of these people are town You really do have such a good track record of reads, you know that? It's certainly suspicious to always be right, but even moreso IMO of always being wrong | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
All of TT's scum reads were either quickly withdrawn (KS, ritoky, damdred) confirmed town(SL, GG, arguably milo) and me Now, it's not conclusive evidence at all, but I think this is pretty damning. TT initially was only leveling accusations at people who were town (other than me, damdred, and arguably milo, who we are not sure about). All of our flips so far have been town so this is true of lots of people. However, ALL BUT THREE of these 7 people are confirmed town. | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
[quote People I'd probably lynch in spite of them probably being spewed town: sicklucker People I'm looking at filters right now to decide if I think they are the lynch today instead of Chocolate: GGTemplar People I'd lynch remorselessly: Chocolate milo[/quote] Again, like with TT, all of these are either confirmed town, me, or milo One thing I would like to bring to light is his case against GGT. He seems really irked by the fact that GGT was going after TT for some reason... On June 06 2015 17:05 VisceraEyes wrote: GGTemplar spent most of the game giving hard townreads based on very early posts, and he spent a lot of time justifying those reads. I concede that the most blatant example of this, his reads on Nydus and Ticktock shown here, was at the behest of another player. However, if you'll kindly turn your packets to page 2 of his filter, you'll see a similar behavior throughout, with no prompting. I've explained here my meta reasoning for thinking he's mafia based on behavior - I would have expected him to try and get a read on me early if he's town. He explained numerous times that he didn't find the interaction between Chocolate and myself to be alignment indicative. Yet today, he's trying to use THAT against me. He also does small nuanced things like trying to appeal to authority and appeal to emotions. Further, his push on Ticktock reads to me as an attempt to remain consistent with his reads yesterday. It's convenient that he had a (very justified *winkwink*) either/or read on Kickstart/Ticktock, and somehow by the grace of God (but conveniently not by Templar's hand) Kickstart the jailer got lynched yesterday, and today EVEN WHILE OMGUSING ME, he maintains that Ticktock is the likeliest shot at mafia. He's not reevaluating the game at all, he's trying to remain consistent while pushing a specific agenda. Everyone should vote for GGTemplar today. He is the most likely mafia at this point in the game, I would say even more so than Chocolate. The only thing that makes me doubt it is the fact that he wasn't voting EoD yesterday, but as far as I know he thought he was or something. A large percentage of VE's posts contain something like "I'm vomiting town" or "I'm owning mafia" which to me seems like a subliminal way of keeping up his appearances even though his track record is abysmal I'm actually very surprised that not many others seems to subscribe to the VE/TT mafia team hypothesis. I think it just becomes pretty apparent as you read their filters | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
I'm not willing to vote Onegu or Damdred right now at all, I really want one of my potential scum team lynched | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
"So @ Fidei We might well be back in OMGUS spitting on each other here. Besides myself who are thinking is scum? I actually liked your points about Onegu. My issues with voting him early were that he would really just be a coinflip given his play, and there seemed to be better targets each day. Now I'm not sure if he's switching up his meta from what people have suggested, or if he's just useless town. I saw him pick it up on D2, not sure why that stopped... " More of TT trying to position himself to bandwagon on town, what a surprise | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
| ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
| ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
| ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 10 2015 05:05 Damdred wrote: Tahts not alignment indicative at all chocolate. People are wrong all the time, sometimes people are wrong all game and they are town. Sometimes scum are right all game. It happens, but saying someone is scum because they have been wrong to often isn't...the best way to go about things. there has to be more to it than that. Additionally VE and TT have had each other as town all game and if one is attacked, the other retaliates | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
I think you and VE are mafia I'm unsure about the other people, and to be honest I don't really want to make a judgment just yet, mostly because I don't want people to feel threatened by me and not make the VE/TT vote, which I think we need | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 10 2015 05:12 Damdred wrote: But you aren't explaining anything milo at all, you don't explain your scum reads you are just putting random teams up without pushing ANYONE. @Chocolate, show me examples of attacking/chain saw defending then. I literally did last page twice. First example: I attack TT, VE attacks me Second example: GGT attacks VE, TT attacks GGT | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
FINALLY | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 10 2015 09:35 Tictock wrote: Also Damdred is correct he only ever voted for Kick... Not sure that breaks my tinfoil hat theory about Damdred killing Rit N1 but it was mostly just the ramblings of my brain while I did other stuff. Finally about to dive into filters, but right now I'm tempted to vote whoever suggested we start re-evaluate everything today just for the amount of headache I've gotten because of it. that sounds like sloppy scum play | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
| ||
| ||