EPTGot it Damdred.
[M][N]Holy Guardians Chapter 1 - Page 2
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Shendelzare
Netherlands126 Posts
Got it Damdred. | ||
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On June 06 2015 07:36 NydusHerMain wrote: I'm back for like 1 minute and I have to go back to work. While I'm gone, are we supposed to try to talk about why the nk landed on the person? And I'm back. No. Or at least not get carried away. I mean ritoky was pretty obvious town, you don't know if it's because he knew someone or just his gameplay he could probably figure out anyone. Whether he was on the right track, who knows. Nightkill discussion is generally circular logic although maybe in later part of the game you can try and narrow it down I think. The other thing is some people can get picked if somehow mafia reads them as blue (not sure how but apparently it happens) or if they try to avoid hitting the same person as a medic. The medic-like role already died in this game so they probably didn't have that fear. | ||
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On June 06 2015 06:34 NydusHerMain wrote: To give you some perspective, I come from video mafia (1+ year of it) and I've only ever played 1 other game of forum mafia. In video mafia, people tend not to push as hard on people unless they have some sort of meta read that makes someone almost confirmed mafia in their minds. Usually, people just chip in and give their thoughts on the game and don't really flesh out reads too hard unless asked to. Apparently, it feels like I've fallen into that hole and I'll try harder to get out of it. With respect to the scum team, I didn't actually propose a "team" persay. I proposed people who I currently view as scummy and would be fine lynching. I don't believe in early associative reads until a mafia flips because it doesn't help to try to find an exact team of 3 unless we find out someone who is mafia. That's a weak thing to push on and you should know better than to call me fake for that -_- So what is the "equivalent" of pushing in video mafia? As I stated before I have never played video mafia so I'm not familiar with the techniques that town uses to take out mafia. I read a few other games here and I think it was mentioned by one other vid mafia person that flips don't reveal alignment? Or some strange shit? But I digress. Anyhow, I mean, if you suspect a new player's body language (I'm guessing) in video mafia how do you convince others that they are mafia? That's what I don't understand. You have to have some stake in wanting to take someone you feel is mafia out. Because if you're not pushing here I'd be scumreading you as well just like I did Onegu. But your lack of experience can't make you unreadable. So if you play the game in a different way, how should we be reading you? | ||
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On June 06 2015 07:11 milo109 wrote: New Guy might be scum. Weakest scum read. I hated SL's play, and I'm getting a 'desperate attempt to turn things around' vibe. You might want to try and read my filter a bit more closely. On June 06 2015 03:58 Shendelzare wrote: I'm back. Had to go to bed when I replaced in. Still on page 35. [...] I can't blame anyone for policy lynching me. sicklucker really didn't do shit and I'd scum his slot if I wasn't in it. But as town, I will do what I can to get some informative reads out there before you all decide to lynch me.  Don't think I'll be helping town any if I don't catch up and don't contribute. I'm assuming that's what you are interpreting as desperate, anyways. | ||
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On June 06 2015 07:11 milo109 wrote: Onegu is just so... weird. I'm fine lynching him anytime. Can't read him. New Guy might be scum. Weakest scum read. I hated SL's play, and I'm getting a 'desperate attempt to turn things around' vibe. So are you lynching Onegu for policy (key words in bold) or because you think him being unreadable makes him scum? | ||
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First few posts aren't making a whole lot of sense. The gut read on sicklucker based on "morally" wanting to policy lynch Tictock, I don't know why that warrants a town read in any world. On June 03 2015 09:53 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I also find the direction you chose to push here with as much haste as you did to be mafia-indicative trying to appear townie rather than actual town genuinely believing what he is saying. Maybe I misunderstand, but I don't know what is there to "believe" about graphics and one-liners nor do I understand why town should believe what he's saying. I would think (at least in forum mafia) it should be the opposite. I would think town should approach things with skepticism. To me this looks pretty contrived. I go through more of Templar's filter and his main two scumreads seem to be Tic and KS. He pushes KS for quite a bit, and then for some unclear reason after he rescinds a town read, he rescinds a scum read on KS before trying to get people on Tic. I can't tell in any sense what is making him read KS as town the second time around and if that's this Chezinu rule that makes even less sense to me because it sounds like such an arbitrary rule. Who (or what) the fuck is Chezinu? Templar doesn't have an opinion or seem to have an opinion on Chocolate and then says KS is town for whatever reason. Maybe double check when the votes on Chocolate fell but just looking at how the votes panned out his non-stance on Chocolate, even after he had the four votes could be him trying to avoid confrontation. I just don't really like a lot of how he's posted and not taking a stance on Chocolate. I think he even said he wasn't interested in him. Or even discouraging people from voting a townread (and that townread got lynched) just makes him look scummy. | ||
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Tictock isn't the only mafia. That is what I mean. | ||
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Seems like there are a few US players, but thought they'd be around by now. Sigh. | ||
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On June 06 2015 21:02 VisceraEyes wrote: I posted quotations that directly contradict your statement of "I townread KS yesterday". You can't say with any certainty that one of KS/TT is mafia without absolute information. You haven't explained ever WHY one of them has to be mafia. The only evidence you provide is "I don't think they both do it as mafia, and X is scummier, so Y is town". That's FAR from confirmed, it's not conclusive, it's not even based on any logic at all. This is probably the main issue I have with Templar aside from his not taking stance on Chocolate when the latter was most controversial/commented on at that time. His response to what I last asked was that he gave clear reasons on why he townread KS and I would consider these anything but clear. I mean I would think townreading someone would be based on what someone did or did not do and not what someone else did or did not do. Like they both can't be mafia you are saying Templar, but you'd taken back both scum and town reads on him before so I don't understand this elimination method you use for Tictock and you just sound a little too sure or a little too forced, I can't tell which it is. To be fair, I have other reservations on him myself which I already posted, but considering you had two different reads early on from what I recall and Damdred comes in with a case that presents both town and mafia Tic, I'm surprised you didn't consider that or re-consider that before pushing Tic the way you are. Also the fact that someone else is pointing this out indicates it's not clear anyhow or the logic doesn't make sense. | ||
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On June 07 2015 00:26 Onegu wrote: Onegu is not trolling, Onegu is wrecking entire scum team with Onegu rule. Ok Onegu theory. ##rekt I think at this point if you are actually town, I think you've smoked too much weed Onegu, or at least you're baked well more than I am given the way you've been posting reads all game. I did not draw any conclusions on your alignment from the games I read of you. I only knew how messed up your posting was, I'm trying to read you logically from what I see of you this game, and if I'm wrong, you should probably tell me why I'm wrong. I think Templar's reasons for scumreading you are different than mine were. So why aren't you taking that into account? If someone says your rule is arbitrary how the fuck does that make them mafia? | ||
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VE is probably town. Damdred from his posting seems alright for now, a little wishy washy on some of the reads in his voting post, but at least he's justified why. | ||
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No read yet on Scott/Fidei but I will try to get to them at some point tonight. | ||
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Town - VE (posting), milo (EoD) Lean town - Damdred Not sure - Scott, Fidei Scum lean - Tic, Chocolate (posting but could move after further review), NHM (need to see more) Scum - Templar | ||
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Also I'm putting Onegu in his own category - "high in the sky" Basically he's using some arbitrary rule to justify his reads. He's scumming Templar so maybe he's not scum if Templar flips but looking at some games his game play isn't that great as either alignment. Less for town for sure. | ||
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On June 07 2015 08:04 scott31337 wrote: "The reason I haven't voted on you yet is because I also think TT is Mafia, and it seems like there's more chance of getting a coalition to vote him off for now. But if there isn't much movement in the next 12 hours or so, I'll vote for you - unless you turn it around and make a real case that you're town." You don't make a town case, you make a mafia case. You show you are town by your thoughts and words. I'd almost call this a slip. Your hearts beating a little faster now isn't it? This is a slip how? I can see that both ways but I don't see how it's a scumslip. | ||
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On June 07 2015 02:37 Tictock wrote: Ok well if nobody is around to interact with I'll go ahead and finish up that case then. #1 - GG has basically shown that he is simply not sure that he isn't sure about anyone but me, yet is willing to claim he's 99% sure about this game. He makes this assertion here. D1 he was sure that it was either myself or Kick that were Mafia. He hardly pushed Kick instead, flipped his read rather suddenly and kept focus on me. This was shortly before Kick becomes the EoD wagon and eventually gets lynched. To GG this now has me as "confirmed" scum. This thinking is dangerous as town, and seems to clearly be scum motivated to me. As scum, this makes perfect sense as it suggests to town that they have a 50/50 chance one day with a confirmed scum lynch the next day. If scum can set this situation up and have it gain credence then it's a great way to get 2 ML's for one stubborn argument. Even if the end result is Scum!GG being lynched on the 3rd day this would be hugely productive for scum. As town it is highly questionable to make this case, as since you cannot have perfect information (and losing out Blue role means Town can't glean any extra info this game) and thus if you are wrong you are sentencing 2 town to be killed. Thus if you want to suggest a move like this as town you had better have solid evidence to backup this plan. I fail to see that evidence coming from GG. #2 - He throws out my name in every post as though chanting my name. This is subtle manipulation on his part, it's the same tactic used in commercials to get you to remember something and keep thinking about it. I'm not even sure I need to bother proving this one, it is clearly the tactic GG is using here. Instead I'll return to why GG is scumreading me, the Chez rule. I would like to point out that GG is clearly basing his assertion that I am scum off the Chez Rule, yet he does next to nothing to backup his belief in the Chez rule. It was scott who first tried to explain it, then ritoky posted links, and Onegu posted another one. GG would rather paraphrase the rule in order to get it to fit this situation and stick to it, then give any real evidence about the Chez Rule. Having now done my own reading and looking into it I can see why GG isn't giving out those links. His play is not very in line with how Chez would play out his rule. In the Champions Game Onegu linked to, you can clearly see that Chez is willing to think outside his own rule, and while he comes back to it time and again he never lets the rule fully cloud his judgment. I also have a hard time believing Chez would allow his vote to be wasted like GG let his "vote" on me go to waste D1. #3 - He throws around spots in his reads like he's offering safe passage to those he "reads town" I quoted the post he made where he stated this a couple of posts ago. Again, I think this point speaks for itself. I'm really interested if anyone has anyway to explain how this thinking could possibly be good or helpful. #4 - He throws out his Townreads on Kick and Ritoky like they were candy that everyone should enjoy, and then remember who gave them out so they will accept more later. The post where he does this is here, but here is the portion I found most interesting. This is such an easy move for scum to make since they actually know who is town. GG is quick to throw out that he was townreading Kick, yet he barely recognized that Kick had died or was our ONLY blue role. He spins his read on ritoky the same way, just saying "I knew he was town, listen to me" Saying you were right about Townreads is the worst way to prove you are town as it is the easiest way for Mafia to show that they are town as well. If anything people should be more afraid to listen to GG given this statement. #3 & 4 together pretty much prove to me that GG does not have Town interests in mind. I also find there to be ample explanation as to why Scum!GG would be acting this way and pushing me like this. Maybe it's a little WIFOM, but I don't think scum is sweating losing a member of their team right now if it has the potential of getting another ML and creates further confusion and misdirection at the same time. Some discussion about Tic/Templar. There's been some question as to his direction particularly when he first dropped his scumreads night 1 against Damdred, I don't think I'm clear where he stands on Damdred, but this shows some direction and might (for Scott, others) clue in whether Tic is mafia in some of these points he's making. It's an awful lot of work to distort the truth and whilst I don't agree fully with #1 or #2, I can see where he's coming from. For #1, I also don't like how Templar is hyperfocus on one person. I ALSO asked him who else he thought was scum besides Tic. Templar DID push KS though and that I know when I looked through filters. My problem is how he gave KS another townread again and maybe this warrants further look into what it took to rescind each the town and the scum reads. But let's just say Tic just loses his mind and gets modkilled for whatever reason. Who will Templar vote for now? I have no fucking idea honestly. #2 - repeating Tic's name - I don't think this in of itself makes a player mafia. I can see town pushing a lynch hardcore correct or not with this tactic if they really feel they have a mafia in their hands. This Chezinu rule still makes no sense to me, but with regards to EoD, I also still take issue with how he had no stance on Chocolate or wanted to ignore Chocolate. This to me looks like he saw two town wagons and figured he'd let the mislynch go through. I just think it is weird to start, that someone would see others take a stance on Chocolate and he just outright refuses to do so. I don't see him doing this at all from a town world. #3 and 4 to me however are pretty damning for Templar though so if Templar really is a town/mislynch, he'd might want to explain where he's coming from with that. A big flaw in his reasoning is assuming that townies are correct. Just because someone is a townie doesn't mean they are correct on someone's alignment especially if they are not a blue role (who can get that extra information). For everyone else, I think this post makes Tic less likely to be mafia at least from what I previously thought. If Templar does turn out to be town maybe this deserves a revisit. But I think those scumming Tic or doubting his alignment one way or another might want to take a look at some of his long posts. If he's mafia there might be some contentious points. | ||
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On June 07 2015 07:53 scott31337 wrote: What stops them is the "Why am I still alive" policy. You can only run that towncred for so long and wonder why that person wasn't shot by the mafia, unless they are mafia. I can get into it more if you would like, but that's the jist of it. Isn't that WIFOM though? How often on this site are top players (who are town) manipulated by this? What is someone who is town just isn't getting the right people down as mafia but people still view him as town? He's left alive and then people turn against him and mislynch him? I don't know. | ||
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On June 07 2015 08:37 Fidei86 wrote: I still think Onegu is a worthy policy lynch. I was reading a guide to forum Mafia on some wiki, and it said that it was common for towns to adopt a "lynch all lurkers" policy. Onegu still hasn't really contributed anything of value, really. It's totally impossible to get any read on someone who doesn't post anything substantive. I don't think the meta town read is sufficient to exonerate him. I saw he's moderating another game on the forums - he's surely smart enough to replicate his last town game as scum. I have a town read on milo. I've also come round on Damdred and VE. They both got out in front of their wagons, and I don't think that it's usual Mafia play to do that. I also really liked Damdred's response to my last question. Mafia are usually (I understand) obsessed with getting things right and are wary of admitting mistakes. When I pointed out Damdred had two different reads on Chocolate, he admitted it straight up. That makes me think that he was posting an honest stream of conscience, which I don't think a Mafia would do. I'm leaning towards Chocolate being town, a lot because his behaviour during the last EOD seemed really genuine. As to SL's replacement, I'm null. It's too early still. I'm also not sure on Nymus. As for GG, I originally thought that he was scum leaning, as all his posts were just "I think you're town". But he's changed it up since then. I'm null on him too. Also, yeah, my heart is going pretty quickly. Mafia is a hell of a lot more stressful than I thought it would be. I still feel awful for being the casting vote on KS. Being town and not knowing who to trust is giving me paranoia. It's fun, but once this game is over I think I'll need a break.. I would agree on Onegu. If he's town, he's detrimental as fuck. If I were a vigilante, he'd be dead 100%. I have a special category for him because his play is just terrible as both alignments. The weed reference on my end is in jest, I have no idea if he actually is high or not when he plays this game, but his play is nonsensical and it just seems like he doesn't give a fuck throwing this random Chez/Onegu rule around. I think someone (ritoky?) mentioned that as scum he tends to lurk or someone said he's a scummy lurker, but from the games I read he lurks as town too so I don't get the difference. Can someone who is more experienced comment on where they draw the line legitimately with Onegu? Do you have any scumreads at all? You have a townread on Chocolate for EoD, but he hasn't posted anything much since. Does this affect you one way or another? Also I've played forum mafia on other sites btw Milo. This site seems to be a higher level of play. I am a bit frustrated no one is around when I'm on, and I'm trying to time my play so that some of the Americans are on later at night but that doesn't seem to be working. It seems like most people in these games are US though? I don't know. But I took a look around and see there are Newbie games, maybe some coaching might help. I would have signed up for a Newbie game but nothing was opened so I just PMed moderators to replace in and see how this game goes. But I think Newbie might be the way to go...sounds like you get a coach who can help you a bit if you are lost. | ||
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