EPTLet me walk you through plots play, as I see it. Indulge my thinking for just a little bit please, try it on for size. If you don't like it feel free to say so but it had better be more than just attacks on my character or ability. You have to target my reasoning here.
Going mild on the quotes here, or at least I started out trying to go mild >.< Do your own Fing reading if you want to verify every little point I make. Also this got Big really fast. Spoilered to keep thread readable.
+ Show Spoiler +
Plots if you recall, starts this game seeming to have forgotten he was playing. He then returns to the game so ready to go that he does some crazy spreadsheeting of everyone's posts. These look impressive, like they took a lot of time. In fact they took so much time plots is never able to do full reads on everyone. Finally D2 he finishes his analysis of D1 and posts all the results, along with helpful instructions on how to use the charts.
That's a lot of work right? Like it really is impressive... but how likely is it to really give meaningful information? Plots used his analysis in detail in his reads D1, which only had the first 6? hours of the game involved (he posted these about MidDay btw). But look at his reads AFTER he finished his analysis, he posted them here just a little after he give us his finished charts. Huh, he sure doesn't use much of anything from the charts does he? Almost like he doesn't believe they are useful either. All that work, he doesn't even try to make a full set of reads on everybody from them?
Plots then goes pretty carefree, like he's done his job. He has. Nobody, well almost nobody, would dare scum read someone with all that work under his belt. So he starts chatting with SL, being all jokey and chummy. A decent pocket attempt if i ever have seen one (I think it's actually my first ^.^), SL has been under constant pressure and def needs a friend at this point in the game.
That is also likely why plots has been weakly townreading SL the whole game. This point always stood out to me as odd. Sl is a very hard player to read, especially early on. If plots is as tryhard noob as he looks from the charts, how is he SO sure SL is town?
Here is where things start to get interesting. I blunder in, super scumming plots over this interaction with SL. Clearly my attention is focused on SL at this point, but the fact that I call out his pocket attempt is bad for plots. So he decides to try and undermine my townyness. Do note at this point plots had only posted 2 reads on me, one null and one as clear town.
Plots starts to get super mad at my points against him. I first call him out for his read on Rels. Remember that? The first thing plots did D2 was give a full paragraph scum read on the guy who just flipped green. His reasoning, well I was working on this, might as well finish it and post it, shows people I'm trying. Why would town post a read like this after a flip? It adds nothing to be discussed, it wastes space, it gives slim towncred, and it's downright weird.
Now I definitely read all plots posts here a few times already. While there are a few places where plots is right and I did misread his posts. + Show Spoiler + He begins to make attempts to paint me as a bad guy for pressuring plots. I'll give him one point in his defense, I didn't really interact much with plots at this point. I had posted a large case on him because I saw several things I thought were scummy and posted them as soon as I could push them out.
Other stuff is going on in his filter right now as well. He gives a read on SL and 27nb. The reas on SL is not bad actually, plots gives lots of reasoning and takes into consideration other opinions, odd though that he now thinks SL is shifty when plots has been claiming he's pretty town up till now. His read ends with a bunch of questions, which plots later claims were trying to get people to think SL might be a role. His read on 27nb is total crap on the other hand. It is just sheeping everyone else's opinion. Yet plots is willing to vote 27nb, and then later swap to BM for no reason other than BM voting 27nb.
Still, after the initial case I post, I do start to make efforts to talk to plots. I ask him to give details to backup his claims/defense, admit I might have been jumping the gun, and even admit that maybe I am just misunderstanding him. In this last point I especially admit, I mean it's really easy to have a misunderstanding. So there was a break in our exchanges and that let him get out those reads.
Late in the day, I post about more things I don't like about plots. Again plots gets super defensive, this time really attacking my ability to read. The post that really stood out to me in this exchange was this one. That post is a bunch of garbled nonsense. The point of it is to suggest several different ways that I MUST have been misreading plots and is largely putting words into my mouth. Why does plots go through all this effort? Why not just tell me what he really meant not what I'm misreading from his post. I think hes trying to slander me, make me appear to be as unreliable as he can.
This covers up to N2 and is less than Half! plots filter. N2 starts somewhere just after pg 4 in plots filter.
Plots now decides to put out his RB claim, well he claims that HE was RB's N1. This is later said to be a "soft claim" for his RB role. In fact right after plots says he got RB'd he start talking about it like it HAD to have come from town. At first this looks strange, though it does fit with him later claiming RB.
After this though, plots really starts to focus on me. He blows up once again about our misunderstanding (I did push him in not the most diplomatic way) but even though I'm CLEARLY asking him to clear things up, he posts this which is largely just what he already posted.
Page 5 of plots filter starts with him responding to me answering his questions to me. He basically just calls me dumb and says I have no way to know that SL isn't a role. I had reached this conclusion on my own, however Bre helped me solidify it. Feel free to ask me why I thought this later, this post is big enough.
Shortly after that Plots starts his spam posting for the day. Some of the tunnel on me starts, but breaks off to throw out some stuff about roles and keeps doing this Nolynch crap for literally no reason.
The whole way Plots claims his role is a little weird. He doesn't come out with it, he slowly teases it, as though he's giving town some great secret. He also uses this to try and be "secretive" about his motives for RBing who he did.
He does eventually offer this,
What an odd choice to RB N1. Sure, ok Plots did scumread Rels and mentioned the Vig thing here,
Another odd post. First how in the hell does Plots think a Vig shot Rels, because plots would if he were vig? He is also so sure Rels is scum here, but are his reasons good? And... wait this is right at start of D2, before plots has even finished his charts... but I see no evidence of him using his charts in this read once again... Would a Town RB, who spends all D1 making charts on activity, use this reasoning to block Rels? Well THIS plots doesnt, rather than use the tool he's spent so much time making he throws out these NAI points about Rels to scum her and say she was a good target here.
Still not convinced plots RB claim doesn't hold up? What about his N2 target, Barakos? Well as Dis points out in this post
Plots has only been town or nullreading Bara all game.
I think plots reasons for his RB's is very much a good thing to be looking at. I spent a fair portion of D3 asking plots why Bara was his 2nd RB. He only ever mentions his RB on bara in these 2 posts one is his super weak answer to my question.
(he technically mentions the Bara RB in other posts as well, but they are just like that first quote. "Bara's RB claim proves I'm RB guys!"
Now plots does post this
Which is true, and a valid point. Why would scum invent such a play? What does it benefit them?
I will attempt to explain the scum logic here in another post, for now this is actually a good point. This does bring me to the one point that would destroy my theory. If there is a 3rd person who gets RB's then I'm absolutely wrong here.
Starting here plots starts to push numbers to explain why votes should go certain ways. He also starts to bring back the possibility of me and Sul being the scum team. He is also continuing to post setup speculations, keeping them broad and only suggests more "oddball" setups.
Towards EoD plots does more numbers to push votes on Sul, these make no sense though and are really just put out to keep town unsure of what is the best play.
There is more in the filter, but it is more recent and this has ballooned to be an epic wall of text. Hopefully I've made my points clear.
That's a lot of work right? Like it really is impressive... but how likely is it to really give meaningful information? Plots used his analysis in detail in his reads D1, which only had the first 6? hours of the game involved (he posted these about MidDay btw). But look at his reads AFTER he finished his analysis, he posted them here just a little after he give us his finished charts. Huh, he sure doesn't use much of anything from the charts does he? Almost like he doesn't believe they are useful either. All that work, he doesn't even try to make a full set of reads on everybody from them?
Plots then goes pretty carefree, like he's done his job. He has. Nobody, well almost nobody, would dare scum read someone with all that work under his belt. So he starts chatting with SL, being all jokey and chummy. A decent pocket attempt if i ever have seen one (I think it's actually my first ^.^), SL has been under constant pressure and def needs a friend at this point in the game.
That is also likely why plots has been weakly townreading SL the whole game. This point always stood out to me as odd. Sl is a very hard player to read, especially early on. If plots is as tryhard noob as he looks from the charts, how is he SO sure SL is town?
Here is where things start to get interesting. I blunder in, super scumming plots over this interaction with SL. Clearly my attention is focused on SL at this point, but the fact that I call out his pocket attempt is bad for plots. So he decides to try and undermine my townyness. Do note at this point plots had only posted 2 reads on me, one null and one as clear town.
Plots starts to get super mad at my points against him. I first call him out for his read on Rels. Remember that? The first thing plots did D2 was give a full paragraph scum read on the guy who just flipped green. His reasoning, well I was working on this, might as well finish it and post it, shows people I'm trying. Why would town post a read like this after a flip? It adds nothing to be discussed, it wastes space, it gives slim towncred, and it's downright weird.
Now I definitely read all plots posts here a few times already. While there are a few places where plots is right and I did misread his posts. + Show Spoiler +
Honest question, who finds plots posts easy to read?
Other stuff is going on in his filter right now as well. He gives a read on SL and 27nb. The reas on SL is not bad actually, plots gives lots of reasoning and takes into consideration other opinions, odd though that he now thinks SL is shifty when plots has been claiming he's pretty town up till now. His read ends with a bunch of questions, which plots later claims were trying to get people to think SL might be a role. His read on 27nb is total crap on the other hand. It is just sheeping everyone else's opinion. Yet plots is willing to vote 27nb, and then later swap to BM for no reason other than BM voting 27nb.
Still, after the initial case I post, I do start to make efforts to talk to plots. I ask him to give details to backup his claims/defense, admit I might have been jumping the gun, and even admit that maybe I am just misunderstanding him. In this last point I especially admit, I mean it's really easy to have a misunderstanding. So there was a break in our exchanges and that let him get out those reads.
Late in the day, I post about more things I don't like about plots. Again plots gets super defensive, this time really attacking my ability to read. The post that really stood out to me in this exchange was this one. That post is a bunch of garbled nonsense. The point of it is to suggest several different ways that I MUST have been misreading plots and is largely putting words into my mouth. Why does plots go through all this effort? Why not just tell me what he really meant not what I'm misreading from his post. I think hes trying to slander me, make me appear to be as unreliable as he can.
This covers up to N2 and is less than Half! plots filter. N2 starts somewhere just after pg 4 in plots filter.
Plots now decides to put out his RB claim, well he claims that HE was RB's N1. This is later said to be a "soft claim" for his RB role. In fact right after plots says he got RB'd he start talking about it like it HAD to have come from town. At first this looks strange, though it does fit with him later claiming RB.
After this though, plots really starts to focus on me. He blows up once again about our misunderstanding (I did push him in not the most diplomatic way) but even though I'm CLEARLY asking him to clear things up, he posts this which is largely just what he already posted.
Page 5 of plots filter starts with him responding to me answering his questions to me. He basically just calls me dumb and says I have no way to know that SL isn't a role. I had reached this conclusion on my own, however Bre helped me solidify it. Feel free to ask me why I thought this later, this post is big enough.
Shortly after that Plots starts his spam posting for the day. Some of the tunnel on me starts, but breaks off to throw out some stuff about roles and keeps doing this Nolynch crap for literally no reason.
The whole way Plots claims his role is a little weird. He doesn't come out with it, he slowly teases it, as though he's giving town some great secret. He also uses this to try and be "secretive" about his motives for RBing who he did.
He does eventually offer this,
On May 28 2015 21:36 plotspot wrote:
I RBed Rels, but she died that night. Remember that I scumread her. I even said I would have shot her if I was vig.
So I claimed that I was RBed by a roleblocker N2 to tell town that we have a RB, but there wasn't any discussion worthwhile about it, you also didn't see me press the issue there.
I RBed Rels, but she died that night. Remember that I scumread her. I even said I would have shot her if I was vig.
So I claimed that I was RBed by a roleblocker N2 to tell town that we have a RB, but there wasn't any discussion worthwhile about it, you also didn't see me press the issue there.
What an odd choice to RB N1. Sure, ok Plots did scumread Rels and mentioned the Vig thing here,
On May 25 2015 07:10 plotspot wrote:
How do you know Rels wasn't Vig shot? I was about to make a case on scumreading him hard for the following points I prepared:
Rels: referring too much to others opinion, reading thread very carefully, the way RELS sets up lynch is also very comfortable (like lynch inactives), giving orders to others, thanks my post but posts no further thoughts, in comparison to Disinformation who displays overall anxiety in his reads and thoughts, Rels looks like he can handle any sudden change, there is nothing clouding his mind, others apparently have to do more than Rels,
you bet if I was Vig I would have shot her.
How do you know Rels wasn't Vig shot? I was about to make a case on scumreading him hard for the following points I prepared:
Rels: referring too much to others opinion, reading thread very carefully, the way RELS sets up lynch is also very comfortable (like lynch inactives), giving orders to others, thanks my post but posts no further thoughts, in comparison to Disinformation who displays overall anxiety in his reads and thoughts, Rels looks like he can handle any sudden change, there is nothing clouding his mind, others apparently have to do more than Rels,
you bet if I was Vig I would have shot her.
Another odd post. First how in the hell does Plots think a Vig shot Rels, because plots would if he were vig? He is also so sure Rels is scum here, but are his reasons good? And... wait this is right at start of D2, before plots has even finished his charts... but I see no evidence of him using his charts in this read once again... Would a Town RB, who spends all D1 making charts on activity, use this reasoning to block Rels? Well THIS plots doesnt, rather than use the tool he's spent so much time making he throws out these NAI points about Rels to scum her and say she was a good target here.
Still not convinced plots RB claim doesn't hold up? What about his N2 target, Barakos? Well as Dis points out in this post
On May 28 2015 22:58 disformation wrote:
That is basically the only mention of barakos in your filter...
Why the fuck would you roleblock a null/town read over a scum read?
That is basically the only mention of barakos in your filter...
Why the fuck would you roleblock a null/town read over a scum read?
Plots has only been town or nullreading Bara all game.
I think plots reasons for his RB's is very much a good thing to be looking at. I spent a fair portion of D3 asking plots why Bara was his 2nd RB. He only ever mentions his RB on bara in these 2 posts one is his super weak answer to my question.
On May 28 2015 21:58 plotspot wrote:
Of course I RBed Rels and Barakos. Barakos non-chalantly mentions he has been RBed? Lol if he was mafia I believe he should hang out in the thread a bit instead of expressing it like this.
Of course I RBed Rels and Barakos. Barakos non-chalantly mentions he has been RBed? Lol if he was mafia I believe he should hang out in the thread a bit instead of expressing it like this.
On May 28 2015 22:48 plotspot wrote:
I couldn't read him that well. While I said he was town earlier, I had my doubts internally and not published. I wonder why batsnacks thought the same?
I couldn't read him that well. While I said he was town earlier, I had my doubts internally and not published. I wonder why batsnacks thought the same?
(he technically mentions the Bara RB in other posts as well, but they are just like that first quote. "Bara's RB claim proves I'm RB guys!"
Now plots does post this
On May 29 2015 00:38 plotspot wrote:
Also it's impossible for a mafia to think of such a ploy. He would risk his fucking life making up being RB, when he didn't even know there was one. Guess what would happen to mafia if he makes up such a ploy, saying he was RB N1? I would crush him. It's too dangerous, no mafia will ever do that. I on the other hand could because only I knew I targeted Rels and "luckily" she died for that ploy to work.
Imagine if I was to RB someone and he survives that Night. It would make this ploy impossible, it would have led to a fucking mess which mafia will have ultimately used to force me out.
Also it's impossible for a mafia to think of such a ploy. He would risk his fucking life making up being RB, when he didn't even know there was one. Guess what would happen to mafia if he makes up such a ploy, saying he was RB N1? I would crush him. It's too dangerous, no mafia will ever do that. I on the other hand could because only I knew I targeted Rels and "luckily" she died for that ploy to work.
Imagine if I was to RB someone and he survives that Night. It would make this ploy impossible, it would have led to a fucking mess which mafia will have ultimately used to force me out.
Which is true, and a valid point. Why would scum invent such a play? What does it benefit them?
I will attempt to explain the scum logic here in another post, for now this is actually a good point. This does bring me to the one point that would destroy my theory. If there is a 3rd person who gets RB's then I'm absolutely wrong here.
Starting here plots starts to push numbers to explain why votes should go certain ways. He also starts to bring back the possibility of me and Sul being the scum team. He is also continuing to post setup speculations, keeping them broad and only suggests more "oddball" setups.
Towards EoD plots does more numbers to push votes on Sul, these make no sense though and are really just put out to keep town unsure of what is the best play.
There is more in the filter, but it is more recent and this has ballooned to be an epic wall of text. Hopefully I've made my points clear.
