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Germany358 Posts
soo... reread the thread...
one thing i found kinda funny:
I make a post about the votes not meaning much, because it may very well have been planned to vote for unmotivated scum-scott and a few hours after disformation (my stongest scum-read at that moment) makes a huge post saying he analyzed the votes and stuff... it is almost as if you try to antagonize me, disfo..
Anyways... I doubt scum-disfo would do this, since i was the only one pushing him really hard and scum would at this point try to not draw more of my attention by actively trying to argue with me... so for now, disfo moves down from the top spot of my lynch-list.
27nb:
looks not so good. was never under my suspicion, because I felt the exchange we had about sulfurus and her reaction to the case disformation made against her.
Starts to look worse now.
I like tictocks point, about her trying to draw attention to the people voting scott by asking, if there was mafia between them and her promising a big reads-post and not delivering also looks bad.
sl:
oh god, what a mess... it is almost as if he tries to confuse everybody...
"i may or may not have a green check on barakos"
"i may be cop or doctor"
"i am vanilla town"
Like wtf this play looks bad on so many levels.
If you are vanilla town it is like the worst possible play to claim you have a green check on someone whose filter you haven't even read and you actually say, you can't read him properly... ok... he retracted in the end... i get that.
Next thing, why this play was bad as it can be: He might very well have provoked a counter-claim by the real cop/doc... this is a newbie-game after all and if there were a actual cop/doc in the game an excited newbie might have very well counterclaimed right on the spot. So him going all "i am role x/y" and then after some hours of waiting and no counterclaims saying "lol, just kidding i trolled you all, i am a plain vt." looks very much like rolehunting and hoping someone actually bites and counterclaims. Also there is this quote by him going like "masons, i know who you are, you might as well come out and claim."... next occasion he is rolehunting. but when boxerfred has a theory about a cop having a redcheck and therefor trying to start a wagon, he instantly calls him out on in. So it's ok, when he does it... but only, when he does it.
Other things I don't like about his spammy, mostly oneliner-filter:
He trys to paint himself in a towny light with the most absurd reasons, like the votecount for example.
He puts himself in the spot of a town hero by saying it was his vote and him persuading batsnacks to vote scott that finally swung the vote to lynch scott and not disformation, and when he is confronted with a reasonable arguement, that invalidates this arguement (my post that those votes may very well have been preplanned), his reaction is "lol you know, what mafia says in their qt? you are mafia!"
You are not mafia for thinking about, what mafia would do in their qt, and what might be their plans... that's a natural thing for town to do - you try to figure them out and you are paranoid about everything that isn't actually confirmed.
And this is one point where sl contradicts himself... see this quote:
On May 26 2015 14:44 sicklucker wrote:
Maybe I was right about barokos and sulp pre planning their entrances how awesome would that be. Like there giving 0 critical thinking here we probably wont here from them for another 48 hours
He refers to this post:
On May 22 2015 17:23 sicklucker wrote:
Did you guys just plan your list posts in the qt or something
Not only does he conveniantly forget, that he was throwing dirt at me for entering the thread at the same time as rels (a confirmed town, he also threw dirt at) and not sulfurus, he is also completely fine with speculating about mafia-qts, when it fits his agenda. Only, when it is not fitting for him, he devaluates it by saying the person speculating is mafia for knowing too much about the scum-qt.
Also him disregarding the possibility of a serialkiller to devalue votes vs him again lacks critical thinking on his part and ignoring the possibility of a townaction, that negated one kp at night. the chance isn't the biggest, i will agree to that, but there is still a possibility, that something like this happened.
So to sum it up:
SLs behavior looks very anti-town to me + he has double standarts, when it comes to certain behaviours and lacks town-trades like a certain amount of paranoia and critical thinking.
I am totally fine with lynching him today.
##vote sicklucker
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Did someone claim doctor or is Tiktok just being silly with that SK stuff?
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Oh and SL is a bad lynch right now, imo.
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Germany358 Posts
why's that and why is your vote on bunnies? I can't remember you giving a reason for your vote.
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@Tictock
Are you implying that Dis and 27nb both are maf, or only 27nb? I like the reads on bunnies a lot currently. I don't feel like she can explain that.
Regarding SL: you're ruining my disinformation is SK assumption. I filtered you and realized that you are really tunneling hard on SL (I dunno how I missed that fact before). That might point to you tryharding him, you already said that "even if town flip I don't care anymore". I want to ask you some questions.
What brings you to the clear "SL = SK" result? You're asking a bunch of rethorical questions to support your claim:
Wonder why SL is so defensive, yet so persistent that he is town? Why does he drone on about his HUGE filter of one liners and spam? Why does he tell us he is so experienced ans plays 100's of games?
The answer you imply would be "BECAUSE HE'S SK". There can be a lot of other answers for those questions, so they're not really proving your point. Some examples: defensive because of heavy pressure. Persistent that he's town, well because everyone is. One liners/spammy: mindset of the human behind the keyboard. Or, too lazy to type out his thoughts. Or, too arrogant because "he's experienced" and we're in a newb game. And so on.
I don't want to actually defend him - my vote has been placed upon him (not for reading him as SK though). You're saying "SL = SK" and I'm saying "Dis = SK". I stated already that my theories on Dis are rather wonky and I am willing to give him a null read. So: what do you think about Disinformation?
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Didn't see Barakos' post when I posted. Solid stuff on SL. Not really reconsidering my vote (since I initially put in on him for a scum read). Still interested in hearing Tictock reply to me.
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On May 26 2015 19:51 Barakos wrote:
why's that and why is your vote on bunnies? I can't remember you giving a reason for your vote.
SL has picked it up a lot today and is cooperating. I voted SL yesterday with breshke to see if SL would try and cooperate, well now he's trying and cooperating. No reason he should be the lynch just my opinion. Yes he's spent most of today trying to prove he's town but he was under a lot of pressure, I can't scum read him for trying to convince people he's town when he's under pressure.
It should be easy for 27nb to not be the lynch today all she has to do is try and cooperate, which she's doing neither.
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If 27nb shows up and makes some super compelling push on e.g. sulfur and makes a strong case on why she's town I'd probably unvote. She just needs to do what SL is doing and 1) try and 2) cooperate.
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Bunny’s Case of "Lene Marlin - Sitting Down Here"
Bunnies is scummed for bad reasoning from Tictock here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24309193
and I can definitely see it. It’s like there is no reason at all and on top of it the word “actually” relativates things too.
Disinformation scumleaning ninjabunnies with involvement of SL:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24310614
Dis is trying to establish a connection between 27 and SL. The thing that caught my eye here is that he is right about that hard word “shit” used to describe BS’s case on SL. Was that word really necessary or rather a sign of overreaction?
Breshke’s case on bunnies starting here with SL joining the conversation:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24311950
She (bunnies) is mainly framed for inconsistencies of scum reading Dis first based on BF being scum too later when her opinions on BF changed to town it doesn’t affect Dis status as scum in her eyes. I mean I can understand that as the game progresses, you can have different reasons. And Breshke indirectly pushes her for a reasoning by asking what SL thinks about it. So far no reply from her to his?
SL thinks bunnies is most likely Scotts partner. She shifted the vote of D1 3:2 in favor of dis getting lynched while still maintain the opinion that Scott is a good lynch. He also says her showing up 15 min before EoD is a sign of mafia rather than town, which in my opinion is not as strong as his previous reason.
Disformation’s case recaps a few points on bunnies’ case.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24313047
Mainly her inactivity not responing to a few points he asked her.
The latest one from Scott (p54):
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24315946
supports SL’s case on her from that Scott voting, albeit with more clear reasoning and sequence. The rest is more on her being actually around without doing anything.
With all these points together and the epitome of it here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24315717
I can only scumread here:
##vote: 27ninjabunnies
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Currently at work. So semi-available.
@Barakos:
Will, look at that, but it wasn't intended. xD
@batsnacks:
I'm agreeing to your last two posts. But I want to stress that I want 27ninjabunnies to be super compelling at this point.
So... in case we don't lynch sicklucker or 27ninjabunnies, who would your top scum reads be? Briefly skimmed your filter, but I couldn't find that. I gather that you are not a fan of Sulfurus?
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@ BF
first off, I invite you to read his filter, or skim it, with the possibility that he is potential SK in mind. As you said I've been tunneled on SL pretty bad and to be honest I did already reach a conclusion on him.
To me it just makes SL's play make too much sense for it to not be the case. And it explains all the points that people have posted about him being scummy.
Pretty much until today SL has claimed that he doesn't know who is Mafia or has been unwilling to REALLY push a target. Of course he'll say that he hammered scott for us, but look back and you'll see SL never cared about scott till the moment he could push him into being the majority lynch. Now I'm not saying SL knew scott was Scum at this point, I think he just saw it as a better wagon than Dis and it turned out to hit Mafia. He keeps shoving this in our faces like it makes him the town hero.
Main Case
Wasn't it odd how N1 SL made that push to get Vig to claim so we could him him shoot? He keeps pushing this idea until I point out the potential of an SK. After that he never mentions it again, nor suggests shots for vig. Seems like now that I've mentioned an SK being possible he doesn't want to voice an opinion.
Now put yourself in the shoes of SK given how N1 played out. You'd HAVE to shoot the target town wants here if you want to claim as Vig and ride the game out with town.
Remember D1 ended with a mafia kill, if there is a SK they are under as much pressure now as the last scum. I think SL wanted to kill someone night 1 and claim Vig D2. However the majority view was that SL himself was the best target, obv SL cant do that so he doesn't kill.
Then as we progress into D2 SL makes several posts related to the fact that there MUST be a mafia TEAM and uses the fact that he has no likely partners as a defense. He also clearly stated how there cannot be an SK because there was no 2nd kill N1. This is easily shown to not be confirmed by reading the SK role in the OP.
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On May 26 2015 20:36 disformation wrote:
Currently at work. So semi-available.
@Barakos:
Will, look at that, but it wasn't intended. xD
@batsnacks:
I'm agreeing to your last two posts. But I want to stress that I want 27ninjabunnies to be super compelling at this point.
So... in case we don't lynch sicklucker or 27ninjabunnies, who would your top scum reads be? Briefly skimmed your filter, but I couldn't find that. I gather that you are not a fan of Sulfurus?
I could see any of 27nb, bm, sulfur, Barakos, or even me being the lynch today. SL earned another day imo. Tiktok, BF, plot, disfo are all safe for now I think, unless I missed something huge. It sort of depends on what, if anything, bunnies does.
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@BF
Also, in regards to your read on Dis. It's not bad, but to me he's been clearly trying to solve the game, and is just interested in pushing and reaching his own conclusions so stands out sometimes. I'll admit a large part of why I don't think your points on him are valid are because of my experience with Dis (was Town Doc) last game. The same posting traits applied there. He's on his 2nd game in these forums, it makes sense to me.
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As I said somewhere earlier, I wanted to look at a bit deeper on the BFxDis.
Boxerfred vs Disformation
I understand that the conflict between boxerfred and Disinformation sparked with this post where Dis calls to attention the strange behaviour of BF on voting Scott:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24308711
Boxerfred kinda explodes on him, which gives him more town points in my eyes:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24309466
They kinda trade reasoning for a while before calling it off. In my opinion this was way blown up for just a “what can we see from who voted for scott and when”. But it happens. Like if you counter-quote something for the 5th time the real reasoning can kinda get blurred out like some partnership quarrels. It's not really a big deal. By now they pretty much confirm themselves as town to eachother, iirc? That would support my read about both of them.
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Well reading tics and bats last posts I come to the conclusion that we simply hang bunnies, vig kill SL and if no vig kill happens, SL is the SK? I feel like I'm missing something.
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Boxerfred there if there was a SK in this game 2 people would have died last night. There are usually very few roles in mafia games... Having an SK in the game is uncommon and an SK that doesn't kill the first night is so unlikely it's not really worth speculating.
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On May 26 2015 20:51 plotspot wrote:
By now they pretty much confirm themselves as town to eachother, iirc? That would support my read about both of them.
I think boxerfred had me as "null, with SK lean" on page 54.
I am leaning town on him. TBH I got a bit annoyed in his exchange with me, because in my mind a bunch of his arguments were ultra weak. *shrugs* At the very least he is looking better than Sulfurus and 27ninjabunnies. Would have to think where he stands in relation to barakos though.
Hm... should also look into Bill Murray, when I am back at home. Noting that here, so I won't forget.
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Just remember that any vig claims, especially at this point are highly suspect as SK.
At this point given 27nb flips red, then NK's will continue as though they are mafia. SK simply has to survive at that point while making sure town chases Mafia.
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Well, not really digging that SK decision stuff... yeah, there are some weird scenarios that could have happened N1. And after that scott stuff D1 I can see this game continuing to be weird. 
But at this point all the SK discussions are ultra WIFOM. Can we concentrate on finding mafia, please? 
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EBWOP:
SK discussion stuff*
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EPT
