EPTNewbie Student Mafia VIII - Page 3
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
This is a must read. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On April 20 2015 06:48 The Shining wrote: At the same time, both Damdred and I already told blues not to claim (me in my huge post, so that doesn't really count, but Damdred as one of the first posts in the game). So people are more likely to see that first, and then be hesitant to claim?It's a risk but it's also one that a scum team would feel more confident taking in a game such as this one, where a new player could rng into a role and get tricked into claiming, as it was an early post, not realizing the mistake it is. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On April 20 2015 06:52 Bourneq wrote: If there is something that you are missing, I'm pretty sure that everyone else (except for Bill Murray) is missing the exact same thing.I would geniunly like to hear the benfits of mass claiming D1. Thinking about it, I dont understand how it would help us? Scum would know who to kill and could super easily counterclaim so that town looses any potential benefits. Bill is not a newbie so I must be missing something right? Seems like a stupid thing to ask for even if he is scum. | ||
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Trfel
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Trfel
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Happy scumhunting! And Damdred, I do hope that you can regain your enjoyment of this game. I'm guessing that it's my fault that you aren't wanting to play as much any more, and I'm terribly sorry for that. If you tell me what it is that I'm doing, I can do my best to stop it. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Oh well. It doesn't seem that much has happened since I left. Give me a bit to get settled, and I'll go over everything in detail. | ||
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Trfel
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(specifically to Damdred and ObiWanShinobi, but also to anyone who is here) | ||
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scott31337 + Show Spoiler + Scott31337 has been active and helpful. He has been often answering and asking questions. The number of reads he has provided are fewer, but his reads seem reasonably thought out. I definitely don't want to lynch him today. ObiWanShinobi + Show Spoiler + ObiWanShinobi has been fairly active and discussing things with people. He has been willing to follow others, but also has been original. While he is capable of playing like this as scum, there is no reason to see him as scum here. LightningStrike + Show Spoiler + His activity has been fairly good. Furthermore, he's made some good comments, and I don't see anything that stands out as scummy. Onegu + Show Spoiler + I didn't like his original townread on me, but I did like the way he explained his read over the next few posts. That's enough to make me not want to lynch him today, especially since we can hold him to reasonable activity standards later. The Shining + Show Spoiler + He's been active, leading the thread when present, and making a bunch of good reads. Need I say more? LeiNadk + Show Spoiler + Seems truly inquisitive, and willing to participate. Tone also says town. He could certainly be mafia here, and his activity today does hint at that, but I don't want to lynch him yet. Maybe Lynch Damdred + Show Spoiler + I just don't know about him. Probably not a good lynch for today just because he's Damdred, anyway. If he is town, then we definitely need him alive, and there's an extremely good chance he will force mafia to kill him. TheBloodyDwarf + Show Spoiler + He seems comfortable enough, but minimal reads. Not much to go on. Could Lynch Bourneq + Show Spoiler + So, initially I was happy with Bourneq this game. On April 19 2015 20:47 Bourneq wrote: This post seems very honest and open, in addition to making me laugh. Bourneq seems to be acknowledging his errors last game and adjusting. However, I noticed several suspicious things in his folder that make me hesitant to town read him.I was laughing really bad reading this. I was making a joke in both thoose comments. First joke because of last game when we lost because I did not know what a tone read was. Secondly I updated the page as I was brushing my teeth and see a post as long as my arm. I acctually read the thing and felt like it had been written up the day before so it looks just as scummy as it looks townie to me. Anyway I was just about to go to sleep so I just said TL;DR as a joke and headed for bed. On a completely different note, I am excited too see what dwarf will bring to the table this game. So far I could get behind lynching all the americans but I dont know if that is a valid strategy since they dont necessarily have to be scum to be americans. On April 19 2015 20:47 Bourneq wrote: [referring to my very long post] I acctually read the thing and felt like it had been written up the day before so it looks just as scummy as it looks townie to me. On April 19 2015 22:01 Bourneq wrote: I like trfel so far since the last person who ended up scumreading me this early on for my very first posts ended up being town. On April 20 2015 01:22 Bourneq wrote: I am not scum, give me your reasoning Bill, I'd love to vote trfel. He is trying a bit too hard. On April 20 2015 04:06 Bourneq wrote: What a strange progression in these four posts. Once Bill Murray scumreads me, Bourneq says that he would love to vote for me. He says that my big post is long and trying to make me look good, and that he thinks it is forced. This is interesting, since he already said that this post was mostly written before the game began, and is thus says nothing about my alignment. Furthermore, he played with me last game, when I was town, and I posted four extremely long analysis posts on the earlier portions of the game (I replaced in). How is me making a long post any different than it was last game?Because this is a different trfel than from the last game I just came from where he was town. And making a huge post like that and trying hard to look like town seems forced and not genuine, like it comes from a scum perspective. It could be motivated from both alignments as I've stated before but I am getting a scummy vibe. It's also strange how he suddenly jumped on me when he said that he liked me for scumreading him. It feels that Bourneq is trying to set himself up to vote for me, but then Bill Murray suggests mass claiming, and this starts to draw attention. Bourneq never mentions me again. This progression seems extremely suspicious to me. Besides this, Bourneq hasn't done very much. He's sheeped the thread sentiment several times (agreeing entirely with LightningStrike's list post, but mentioning the three inactive players, note that he didn't mention inactive players last game as town), and a weak read on LightningStrike ("[LightningStrike seems] just as town as anybody else to me so far"). I could definitely lynch Bourneq. Bill Murray + Show Spoiler + This one's kind of obvious. He was blue hunting, and had no good explanation (how could he?). He assumed that if town claimed, and mafia didn't counterclaim, town would have about a 60% chance of winning, but despite this number and asking for claims, he didn't bother to actually read the setup. On April 20 2015 01:32 Bill Murray wrote: I think that this post supports Bill Murray as town slightly, he revises it to have only the cop claim (which makes sense if you think that the setup is cop/doctor). However, he's still looking pretty bad.There is 1 role that should be claiming. Cop. Voting for Onegu instead of me is pretty bad as well. And, he scumread me for doing something (posting again after I said I would leave) while he completely ignored Bourneq doing the same thing. In fact, he was willing to provide his reasoning for voting me to Bourneq but not to me (because apparently I am scum, while Bourneq isn't). This is weird. But I hesitate to lynch him because of the reasons he provided for his scumread on me. On April 20 2015 01:28 Bill Murray wrote: This analysis is flawed, but it does make him seem somewhat better.my reasoning is that 1) he is trying to scumandeer the game a. this could be as town, referred to as spotlighting b. this could be as scum, which i think it is here 2) he ends the RQS early a. this is hypocritical of him given his last post (where he assaults me for stifling information) b. his head is up his own ass regarding this which is a reason he is cancerous and toxic to the town (big posts suck) 3) for having spotlighted, he is already giving excuses a. he said he had to go before b. he actually STUCK AROUND to see if anyone said anything about him before saying he had to go again TL:DR don't be apologetic if you're spotlighting. I need to make a check of his play from last game and analyze his filter more heavily, but I could see myself lynching Bill Murray. Policy Lynch plotspot cakepie Bourneq and Bill Murray are both looking pretty bad here. I could even see them being scum together. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Anyway, two questions. Bill Murray: What is RQS? (from your post where you explained why you were scumreading me) What happened to your scumread of me? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
But I really want everyone to read my above post, or at least my two scumreads. I'll quote them again here, so you have no excuse for being too lazy to scroll up two posts. Thoughts or comments are much appreciated. If you don't like either of these lynches, who do you want to lynch instead? On April 20 2015 13:00 Trfel wrote: Bourneq + Show Spoiler + So, initially I was happy with Bourneq this game. On April 19 2015 20:47 Bourneq wrote: This post seems very honest and open, in addition to making me laugh. Bourneq seems to be acknowledging his errors last game and adjusting. However, I noticed several suspicious things in his folder that make me hesitant to town read him.I was laughing really bad reading this. I was making a joke in both thoose comments. First joke because of last game when we lost because I did not know what a tone read was. Secondly I updated the page as I was brushing my teeth and see a post as long as my arm. I acctually read the thing and felt like it had been written up the day before so it looks just as scummy as it looks townie to me. Anyway I was just about to go to sleep so I just said TL;DR as a joke and headed for bed. On a completely different note, I am excited too see what dwarf will bring to the table this game. So far I could get behind lynching all the americans but I dont know if that is a valid strategy since they dont necessarily have to be scum to be americans. On April 19 2015 20:47 Bourneq wrote: [referring to my very long post] I acctually read the thing and felt like it had been written up the day before so it looks just as scummy as it looks townie to me. On April 19 2015 22:01 Bourneq wrote: I like trfel so far since the last person who ended up scumreading me this early on for my very first posts ended up being town. On April 20 2015 01:22 Bourneq wrote: I am not scum, give me your reasoning Bill, I'd love to vote trfel. He is trying a bit too hard. On April 20 2015 04:06 Bourneq wrote: What a strange progression in these four posts. Once Bill Murray scumreads me, Bourneq says that he would love to vote for me. He says that my big post is long and trying to make me look good, and that he thinks it is forced. This is interesting, since he already said that this post was mostly written before the game began, and is thus says nothing about my alignment. Furthermore, he played with me last game, when I was town, and I posted four extremely long analysis posts on the earlier portions of the game (I replaced in). How is me making a long post any different than it was last game?Because this is a different trfel than from the last game I just came from where he was town. And making a huge post like that and trying hard to look like town seems forced and not genuine, like it comes from a scum perspective. It could be motivated from both alignments as I've stated before but I am getting a scummy vibe. It's also strange how he suddenly jumped on me when he said that he liked me for scumreading him. It feels that Bourneq is trying to set himself up to vote for me, but then Bill Murray suggests mass claiming, and this starts to draw attention. Bourneq never mentions me again. This progression seems extremely suspicious to me. Besides this, Bourneq hasn't done very much. He's sheeped the thread sentiment several times (agreeing entirely with LightningStrike's list post, but mentioning the three inactive players, note that he didn't mention inactive players last game as town), and a weak read on LightningStrike ("[LightningStrike seems] just as town as anybody else to me so far"). I could definitely lynch Bourneq. Bill Murray + Show Spoiler + This one's kind of obvious. He was blue hunting, and had no good explanation (how could he?). He assumed that if town claimed, and mafia didn't counterclaim, town would have about a 60% chance of winning, but despite this number and asking for claims, he didn't bother to actually read the setup. On April 20 2015 01:32 Bill Murray wrote: I think that this post supports Bill Murray as town slightly, he revises it to have only the cop claim (which makes sense if you think that the setup is cop/doctor). However, he's still looking pretty bad.There is 1 role that should be claiming. Cop. Voting for Onegu instead of me is pretty bad as well. And, he scumread me for doing something (posting again after I said I would leave) while he completely ignored Bourneq doing the same thing. In fact, he was willing to provide his reasoning for voting me to Bourneq but not to me (because apparently I am scum, while Bourneq isn't). This is weird. But I hesitate to lynch him because of the reasons he provided for his scumread on me. On April 20 2015 01:28 Bill Murray wrote: This analysis is flawed, but it does make him seem somewhat better.my reasoning is that 1) he is trying to scumandeer the game a. this could be as town, referred to as spotlighting b. this could be as scum, which i think it is here 2) he ends the RQS early a. this is hypocritical of him given his last post (where he assaults me for stifling information) b. his head is up his own ass regarding this which is a reason he is cancerous and toxic to the town (big posts suck) 3) for having spotlighted, he is already giving excuses a. he said he had to go before b. he actually STUCK AROUND to see if anyone said anything about him before saying he had to go again TL:DR don't be apologetic if you're spotlighting. I need to make a check of his play from last game and analyze his filter more heavily, but I could see myself lynching Bill Murray. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
But I did notice that he called Foolishness a great player for town, while mentioning that he makes really long posts. And earlier, Bill Murray scumread me because I made a long post, and long posts are bad for town. Hm. Anyway, to answer The Shining and Damdred (various questions): When I said I was "happy" with Bourneq, I meant that I had no desire to lynch him. In that very post, you can see that I listed players in terms of "don't lynch" or "could lynch", not town or scum, because I prefer to go lynch by lynch and not town versus scum when I have the time to do so. When I got back from my concert, I read the filter of everyone in the game (except myself, of course), and then I noticed Bourneq's inconsistency in his read on me. I asked about Bourneq not because I wanted to probe out the thread sentiment, but because I wanted to get people's thoughts on Bourneq before I posted, thus getting more information. I had already written out my portion on Bourneq at that time, but I waited to post until I finished going over and typing about every player. I didn't wait for more people to share thoughts about Bourneq because I needed to get something out there to get the thread moving, and I'm confident in the read, so I want people to see it. I wasn't trying to make an unflipped association read between Bourneq and Bill Murray, I'm sorry that it came off that way (the association between the two is not very significant, I think). I was meaning to convey confidence in my reads on both of them. As to my seeming non-stance between them? I wanted to leave it open to people's responses more. At the time, I slightly preferred lynching Bourneq. Now, I prefer lynching Bourneq to Bill Murray by quite a bit. I'm sorry that the way I went about scumreading Bourneq was a bit round-about. But if you just look at the arguments I gave, and look at Bourneq's response, it's extremely likely that Bourneq is mafia here. After the post that Bourneq mentioned, supposedly trying to draw out Bill Murray, Bill Murray made another post where he explained his read, and then later (upon request) Bourneq made yet another post explaining why my play was scummy, including saying that he was getting a scummy vibe from me. Bourneq's explanation means that he really wouldn't have to say this here. I really want to lynch Bourneq here, but I'll take another look at the posts since I went to sleep first. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Lynching inactives is just not good. Especially when we actually have some things to go on. Plotspot will need to come back by the end of the day to vote. Just wait for him, don't lynch him. Be suspicious of him? Yes. Wagon him before he does anything? Of course not. And I don't want to lynch cakepie either. He reloaded the thread while reading, to see how things were going? I do that basically every game. He took a really long time to get started in the game? Somewhat suspicious, but not enough to lynch him over. He spent some ridiculous amount of time supposedly reading the thread? Still not enough to lynch him for. The most important thing, by far, is what he comes up with when he actually enters the thread. I like his analysis. He says that he will avoid repeating things others have said as much as possible, and he offers a different perspective on some parts of the thread. He clearly shows critical thinking about the game. His perspective on LightningStrike and me is definitely new. But, his vote on plotspot is more suspicious, though he does say that he doesn't think that Day 1 is very accurate, so I suppose I can live with it for now. I still think that Bourneq's explanation of his play isn't very plausible. This makes me more confident about lynching him, because he gave an explanation which I don't accept. If it was only the first quote about being willing to lynch me, I could accept it. But when he accomplished his goal (Bill Murray giving his reasoning) and after that, still provided more reasons for suspecting me (apparently without believing it or wanting to lynch me), that I don't understand. On April 20 2015 19:59 Bourneq wrote: This post looks more suspicious as well. Why would town think of this 12 minutes after the post and come back to clarify it? Maybe I'm going too far here, but I'm thinking that he saw that The Shining was suspicious of me and then clarified this.Little side note to my last post. Just because I did not want to vote trfel does not mean I've towned him yet. Bourneq is the best lynch here. Lynch scum. ##vote Bourneq | ||
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On April 20 2015 23:53 Damdred wrote: I am not defending cakepie. I am showing why I don't think that he is a good lynch today, compared to Bill Murray, and especially compared to Bourneq.He reloaded the thread and took like 12 hours to actually post anything of any substance and still didn't come to any conclussions and then wasted his vote on a plylnch he never even talked about NOR PUSHED. What analysis the one where he doesn't actually analysis anything or come to any real conclussions doesn't push any scum read or any town agenda and just plynches? You are chainsaw defending people now. Back into the scum pile for you On April 20 2015 17:06 cakepie wrote: Given this post, I think that his vote makes sense. And it's not a wasted vote. It's a policy lynch, which I think is bad, but you shouldn't scumread him for this when you've been advocating the same thing yourself this game.Well, I’m not going to post a huge ordered list or give townreads and help scum prioritize out who to kill off. And it should not be surprising at this stage of D1 to be looking at a lot of null± among moderately active players. I’ve given my strongest read and voiced a couple of my suspicions, and though the latter are a bit more swingy and hard to place for now, with their activity, we’ll have more to work with as we go. Unfortunately, with my fairly limited experience, D1 still feels like a crapshoot, barring some really obvious slip or discrepancy from someone. I think BM fits the bill best here. (see what I did there?) I've talked to some good players about proper town play. The best time to defend people is when you have an alternative lynch which you think is much better. I have presented reasons to lynch Bourneq, and he is quite likely to be scum. This is the most confidence I have in a Day 1 scum lynch in quite some time. | ||
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I think you can also see Bourneq being non-committal and following thread sentiment (until after I posted my case on him), and being inconsistent with a bad explanation for the one solid read that he made. | ||
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On April 21 2015 00:03 Damdred wrote: I am defending him, and I said as much myself.and you are defending him indeed. Such as "He has good analysis" is a defense of my attack "he has no conclussions and not really doint much" Also you really need to look at what a wasted vote with no push is, because what he did is the definition of it. This is yet another instance of you not reading the thread carefully. Believe it or not, I am keeping a list. It's not a wasted vote when many people have been bringing up the idea of policy lynching. It has nearly as much reasoning as when you first voted for cakepie anyway (and there's barely a difference between the two). | ||
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Trfel
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On April 21 2015 00:06 Damdred wrote: SHOW ME HOW HES REACHING ANY CONCLUSSIONS ABOUT THE GAME TRFEL DO IT RIGH TNOW DO IT On April 20 2015 17:06 cakepie wrote: This is his one solid conclusion about the game. But Damdred, you are a good player. And you are well aware that "no conclusions about the game" (even if true) doesn't necessarily make someone scum. Look at TheBloodyDwarf, he has no conclusions about the game. Lots of newbies have no conclusion about the game, and cakepie hasn't been here for very long.OWS, If there’s one thing that really seems out of place to me, it would be BM’s mass claim proposal / “blue hunt” -- quite simply, it doesn’t add up. I’m well aware that he has a bit of a reputation, but the situation still reeks of exceedingly weird. Hypothesize he is scum motivated? I don’t think noob game means people are dumb enough to fall for the straight up blue hunt. Town motivated? I’m pretty sure he doesn’t get any passes for not knowing the setup, or trying for “60% if no counterclaim”. Some kind of test to gauge reactions? Not apparent that is the case either. Occam’s razor would prefer obvious scum here. Onegu mentioned “too scummy to be scum, doesnt work” [as a defense] and my NMM33 experience would tend to agree that usually too obvious scum = scum. As things stand now, if deadline was in a couple of hours and we had to consolidate already, I’d probably vote BM. It’s not a new case by any means, but that’s the strongest read I have. Why does it matter if cakepie has no solid conclusions at this time, when he is showing a clear thought process, and he just started actually playing the game? | ||
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On April 20 2015 23:58 Trfel wrote: From that very same post. What I meant to say was, "I am not defending cakepie for the purpose of defending cakepie". This is clearly implied (if not outright stated) by the last paragraph of the post, quoted above.I've talked to some good players about proper town play. The best time to defend people is when you have an alternative lynch which you think is much better. I have presented reasons to lynch Bourneq, and he is quite likely to be scum. This is the most confidence I have in a Day 1 scum lynch in quite some time. | ||
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I would like you to do so at this time, please. | ||
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