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On March 16 2015 22:16 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 22:08 marvellosity wrote:whereas you're sort of okay with just doing nothing and voting whatever the lowest hanging fruit is at the time. Literally totally untrue, I voted you and moved to rayn (on my own, with no expectation of being followed) and haven't moved since. That's exactly my point. Why do you not want people to follow you? I remember you saying at some point something like "I will just stand by and do nothing while palmar gets lynched", which is so uncharacteristic. Let's assume you're town. If we mislynch today, someone that isn't me or you, mafia is going to shoot one of us, and the other will be lynched with fire. It is super important to either get today right, and to figure out mine, yours, and preferably rayn's alignment. If I die tonight and flip town, town will be all over you. we HAVE to get this right. What is your role marv?
that's not exactly your point.
Your exact point was "voting whatever the lowest hanging fruit is at the time". That was your exact point. And it's bullshit.
As for the rest, I refer you to my posts last night. They are in the last few pages of my filter, you were there at the time, it's not too challenging to find.
I remember you saying at some point something like "I will just stand by and do nothing while palmar gets lynched", which is so uncharacteristic.
Uncharacteristic of what, exactly? Can you think of anything i've ever even remotely said like that as mafia? I'll tell you, the answer is no.
If we mislynch today, someone that isn't me or you, mafia is going to shoot one of us, and the other will be lynched with fire
That's just a weird thing to say. If we mislynch today, there is approx 0% chance I get shot.
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I am hard claiming VT btw (as in, lynch me if I backtrack).
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On March 16 2015 22:20 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 22:16 Palmar wrote:On March 16 2015 22:08 marvellosity wrote:whereas you're sort of okay with just doing nothing and voting whatever the lowest hanging fruit is at the time. Literally totally untrue, I voted you and moved to rayn (on my own, with no expectation of being followed) and haven't moved since. That's exactly my point. Why do you not want people to follow you? I remember you saying at some point something like "I will just stand by and do nothing while palmar gets lynched", which is so uncharacteristic. Let's assume you're town. If we mislynch today, someone that isn't me or you, mafia is going to shoot one of us, and the other will be lynched with fire. It is super important to either get today right, and to figure out mine, yours, and preferably rayn's alignment. If I die tonight and flip town, town will be all over you. we HAVE to get this right. What is your role marv? that's not exactly your point. Your exact point was "voting whatever the lowest hanging fruit is at the time". That was your exact point. And it's bullshit. As for the rest, I refer you to my posts last night. They are in the last few pages of my filter, you were there at the time, it's not too challenging to find.
Isn't that what the idiom means? I was a simple easy to reach lynch, then I demonstrated myself to be a bit more complex so you moved on. I'm not saying it's scummy to do so, it's just so easy.
On March 16 2015 22:20 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +I remember you saying at some point something like "I will just stand by and do nothing while palmar gets lynched", which is so uncharacteristic. Uncharacteristic of what, exactly? Can you think of anything i've ever even remotely said like that as mafia? I'll tell you, the answer is no.
Again, I'm not calling you mafia, can you stop jumping to conclusions. I said it was uncharacteristic, which means it doesn't fit your character, neither as mafia nor as town. I have no idea what it means, but it's very much not town marv either.
Maybe you're mad at something, I don't know. Maybe this is how you display that you're frustrated with the way the game is going. I don't care. You're not being productive in a day I need you to be productive.
On March 16 2015 22:20 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +If we mislynch today, someone that isn't me or you, mafia is going to shoot one of us, and the other will be lynched with fire That's just a weird thing to say. If we mislynch today, there is approx 0% chance I get shot.
I would shoot you if we mislynch today (and I would probably get lynched the day after!  ) So yes, you would get shot, especially if I'm mafia.
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Just here to tell you I did not read the last 80 posts. And probably never will.
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You are like me marv, you want to win. When the game is on the line you abandon whatever facade you've put up throughout the game and go for it. I do this every time, sadly it rarely works.
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On March 16 2015 22:25 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 22:20 marvellosity wrote:On March 16 2015 22:16 Palmar wrote:On March 16 2015 22:08 marvellosity wrote:whereas you're sort of okay with just doing nothing and voting whatever the lowest hanging fruit is at the time. Literally totally untrue, I voted you and moved to rayn (on my own, with no expectation of being followed) and haven't moved since. That's exactly my point. Why do you not want people to follow you? I remember you saying at some point something like "I will just stand by and do nothing while palmar gets lynched", which is so uncharacteristic. Let's assume you're town. If we mislynch today, someone that isn't me or you, mafia is going to shoot one of us, and the other will be lynched with fire. It is super important to either get today right, and to figure out mine, yours, and preferably rayn's alignment. If I die tonight and flip town, town will be all over you. we HAVE to get this right. What is your role marv? that's not exactly your point. Your exact point was "voting whatever the lowest hanging fruit is at the time". That was your exact point. And it's bullshit. As for the rest, I refer you to my posts last night. They are in the last few pages of my filter, you were there at the time, it's not too challenging to find. Isn't that what the idiom means? I was a simple easy to reach lynch, then I demonstrated myself to be a bit more complex so you moved on. I'm not saying it's scummy to do so, it's just so easy.
Er... so I voted once and then moved on to someone who no-one else wanted to lynch (as far as I was aware). Yes, that definitely validates your point. If by validates, I mean doesn't validate at all.
"voting WHATEVER the lowest hanging fruit is AT THE TIME" definitely implies I am just moving where the wind takes me on who i think will be easy to lynch. that is clearly not the case.
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On March 16 2015 22:27 Palmar wrote:
You are like me marv, you want to win. When the game is on the line you abandon whatever facade you've put up throughout the game and go for it. I do this every time, sadly it rarely works.
You know I afked Day 2 on Horn when the lynch was on me, and literally the only reason I got HF lynched in the end was because my chess match finished early and I could post for an hour? I'd given up on the day for all intents and purposes.
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oh I didn't mean "whoever you think people will agree with you on". I just meant that your reasoning seems to be less "I have decided I want this fruit because this fruit is exactly what I want and I'm going to get it" and more "eh that fruit is out of reach now, so I'll grab this one here that's closer".
I'm basically saying that you're voting by PoE. you have a list and vote whoever happens to fall to the bottom, without actively deciding who should be at the bottom.
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On March 16 2015 22:32 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 22:27 Palmar wrote:
You are like me marv, you want to win. When the game is on the line you abandon whatever facade you've put up throughout the game and go for it. I do this every time, sadly it rarely works. You know I afked Day 2 on Horn when the lynch was on me, and literally the only reason I got HF lynched in the end was because my chess match finished early and I could post for an hour? I'd given up on the day for all intents and purposes.
I didn't. Wasn't I dead or something?
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yeah they killed you N1. Probably on the back of my strong townread of you.
tldr: Eden made case on me mid day-2. I went fuck you all I'm off. Everyone votes me. I have chess match that evening that is due to finish past deadline, I don't post. Chess match finishes early, so i come home and post and avoid the lynch.
Also I can't really take anything you say very seriously because that is neither why I voted you or voted rayn. Especially the rayn bit. I was very explicit with why I voted for rayn.
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I am back, hopefully not with a spinal disc herniation but that remains to be seen in a couple of days.
What i am going to do now is to go through everyone and everything since i am on a sick leave from work for at least two days. I am also going to distract dumb shit like "VT claim" or "this much posts" towntells because obviously some of those tells are not true. I am not mafia and there are two people who are being called town for something that's not townie (like everyone is being called town for some tells and i can't trust all of them, so i am just going to ignore all of it).
I also found Sentinel's music which has been proved to be good for scumhunting. I recommend it. 
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On March 16 2015 23:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:I am back, hopefully not with a spinal disc herniation but that remains to be seen in a couple of days. What i am going to do now is to go through everyone and everything since i am on a sick leave from work for at least two days. I am also going to distract dumb shit like "VT claim" or "this much posts" towntells because obviously some of those tells are not true. I am not mafia and there are two people who are being called town for something that's not townie (like everyone is being called town for some tells and i can't trust all of them, so i am just going to ignore all of it).I also found Sentinel's music which has been proved to be good for scumhunting. I recommend it.
I love this approach, even if you turn out to be mafia you should be commended for this.
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What's the list btw?
Palmar doesn't troll as mafia
Marv had 30 page filter in first cycle or something
prplhz had 30 posts in x hours
rayn doesn't bus as mafia
onegu claimed VT
Damdy ragequit
Did eden and koshi have one too?
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On March 17 2015 01:03 Palmar wrote:
What's the list btw?
Palmar doesn't troll as mafia
Marv had 30 page filter in first cycle or something
prplhz had 30 posts in x hours
rayn doesn't bus as mafia
onegu claimed VT
Damdy ragequit
Did eden and koshi have one too?
Re the post above this, it's what I tried to do yesterday, which is why I ended up lynching ritoky despite the fact that in many ways he conformed to his "town meta". I just thought that given everyone had that I should go for gameplay reasons... alas
I guess Koshi & Eden is also massposting
I guess Eden can have "moves his vote/target around a lot" too.
Obviously the absolute easiest one to "fake" is Onegu's. It literally takes 5 words worth of effort. Damdy's maybe next easiest.
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On March 13 2015 20:53 marvellosity wrote:Going backwards, newest first, missing out a couple of theme games (towngames only): SlytherinShow nested quote +On February 08 2015 05:20 Onegu wrote:
Greeting I am town you may thank me later. Show nested quote +On February 08 2015 05:48 Onegu wrote:On February 08 2015 05:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why is Onegu town? Because I only claim town as town... Duh Horn of AfricaShow nested quote +On February 04 2015 08:13 Onegu wrote:
Why can I never roll blue in normals? It's always either scum or VT... Guilty MiniShow nested quote +On August 23 2014 20:24 Onegu wrote:
We have masons? How did I get VT with scum, SK and masons and other PRs... I never roll PRs. Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 22:24 Onegu wrote:On August 23 2014 22:22 GlowingBear wrote:On August 23 2014 20:24 Onegu wrote:
We have masons? How did I get VT with scum, SK and masons and other PRs... I never roll PRs. This post of yours is horrible. Why saying you're VT? Why not? World HeavyweightNo claim Back to the BasicsNo claim Time to DieNo claim Persona 4No claim
^ The post I made about it earlier. I posited that he was more aggressive about his VT claim this game compared to the previous times he did it. All the responses he made in the previous game weren't really aggressive at all.
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Onegu
There is not much to be said, and this is where my vote is and will remain as we speak.
I think Onegu overplayed his townread on me. I think the post where he "explains" the read proves it. Like i think the only smart thing Onegu has said in this game is how Eden reacted to Palmas vig claim. That does not really mean much if Eden is town though, especially when Onegu seems to be reading Palmar "null scummish" lol. I also obviously liked his vote on JAT, but idk.. i kinda feel like he has to do that if he is mafia. This is a dude who trusts my reads so much when i fakeclaim mason with mafia to lynch another mafia (when Onegu is in fact my mason partner) he counter-fakeclaims tracker when that said mafia does it. So yeah, i think his vote is not alignment indicative at all in the end.
purplehaze:
There are some things that seriously bother me with prplhz in this game.
First is his vote on me D1. I went to read his games in the following games:
Carnival Cruise Mafia - Mafia
Roulette Mini Mafia - Town
Default Suspicions Mafia - Town
World Heavyweight Championship Mafia II - Town
Cell Mini Mafia - Town
TL Mafia LXVII: Storm Mafia 2 - Town
What's charasteristic for prplhz in his (at least latest) town games is that when he has a scumread he makes a case, votes for them, then questions his read (after they answer) and people about his read. In Carnival he was just, idk, all over the place with his cases, i mean he dropped his cases for no apparent reason and moved on to another case. In this game, in contrast to his town games he does this:
- vote rayn
- make a case on JAT
- question people who vote for JAT (srsly, it looks like he thinks the people who vote for JAT (f.ex. Eden) are more scummy than JAT)
- talks about everything but why JAT is mafia
- never moves his vote
- ends up with this post around JAT's claim:
On March 12 2015 06:50 prplhz wrote:
just seems like everybody mysteriously converged on jat today
I don't think prplhz had ever any intention to lynch JAT while scumreading him. His play does not add up to what i am used to see from him. Like yes, i know i at least used to be really terrible in reading prplhz because he just posts so little. But i do not hee how his play on D1 follows any logic at all because he does many things that are the opposite i would expect him to do if he is town. He doesn't follow up on his suspicions (like in Titanic), which he usually ALWAYS does as town. He just parks his vote on me for "well marv and rsoultin are voting for him" without even reconsidering his vote after reading my explanation towards marv's case. That is not townish for prplhz. Even if we discount the weird acting towards JAT scumread his acting towards reading me scum is scummy. He is not a guy who just says "yolo let's sheep marv", or at least is unwilling to confront people when new evidence comes up.
On day 2 what sticks out to me the most is prplhz's read progression on Damdred. First he tries to analyse the night kill (understandable -- as everyone was pretty much doing that). He reaches to a conclusion:
On March 13 2015 18:02 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2015 19:57 rsoultin wrote:
mrrrr
too many townyish people this game big problem lol
-sits on marv's head and peers down at him-
you could be scum you know...kinda funny you seem to think that's an impossible thought to have. like i wouldn't be considering it if most of the player base didn't look town, but still
koshi+rayn+LS definite townies hi townies ^^ (tinfoil hat could i suppose have rayn scum ccing jat scum but that's a super fucking weird play lol and if they did that i don't mind losing to it ><)
prp...i like for town on filter dive. only reservation is despite his contribution to scumreading jat he stayed on rayn, but considering his reaction to rayn's LS push and his involvement in the thread otherwise, it adds up
eden anger too real...like i feel he'd hard town me as either alignment unless i started looking like a shitbag and other potential mislynches are actually harder to get lynched than me, but his paroxysms of fury/frustration are not how i remember him behaving when we caught him as scum before
marv...liked where his head was at. we clicked early. he did not want to lynch jat and only came around at the end...could mean a tunnel, we all do it, and i'm still inclined to say he's town. i even agree he's more likely to try to get cred out of that lynch especially considering jat goon...however. gotta love howevers xP this whole the main reason to townread him is he would have tried to get credit is weaksauce and his response to koshi read overly defensive to me. so he dropped to a light read. naughty marv
ritoky...if the only reason i can possibly town you is cause jat was pushing you you're sucking wind, boyo. i think it may be normal for you to get off to a slow start though so let me make this simple: YOU ARE NOT CONFIRMED TOWN TO ME. that means you actually have to do some shit. i see no reason jat couldn't have bussed you, and a lot of folks look way more townie than you do
onegu...only reason to townread him is the vt claim and that does actually appear to be a thing...again, if that's the only reason i can call you town, though, that's frankly not anywhere close to good enough
palmar...prp is scum? lol i can't read your game anyway, and apparently you've lost your pulse on prp as it is, but i don't know what the hell you're doing this game
damdred like...i don't think i even need to add on here. i still feel like he poe'd himself. there's a bit of awkwardness to his play this game, too, and i forget who mentioned his townreads looking naïve town, but naïve is not a word i'd associate with damdred...ever
i'm pretty sure this is an important post to understanding rso night kill town reads: koshi LS rayn eden me townish/meh: marv rso scum reads: palmar ritoky onegu damdred i think this means that there's reason to look more into damdred which i will try to do
But when you go further to read what prplhz actually does regarding the bolded part, it's this:
On March 15 2015 03:21 prplhz wrote:
i don't know if they're all town but i think
palmar town because he's shennanie and having too much fun. 3 fake claims and sexy list and whatever. it just looks like town palmar. going with my guts here even though his read on me was bad and he didn't investigate even though he should have.
koshi and rayn pushing jat yesterday. i give koshi most of the credit for getting jat lynched but maybe i'm wrong here. it just looked like marv was getting rayn lynched and then koshi steps in and goes for jat. rayn helped, i still can't shake his weird early game but i faintly recall that sometimes i don't get his early game (just read some old game where he pushed some weird plan early on and i scumread him for it, it's kind of the same here, i don't understand where the hell he's going and it seems useless to me). both towns, mostly koshi.
marv just seems town too. i like most of the things he's said especially pretty much confirming me, partly by revealing some town tell (the whiny bitch tell).
ls town.
i was a little worried about eden but his anger and his hastily aborted push on me yesterday seems townie. why would a scum push me and then after a single retort stop pushing me? i just think scum are more deliberate in their actions.
damdred is really putting in some effort.
this just leaves ritoky and onegu. i don't know if they're both scum (might very well be wrong on something up there) but i think there's certainly scum in between them.
Did prplhz go investigate more into Damdred? Does it look like it? Anyone? Because for me it sure as hell it does not.
Also see the red part. "One of ritoky / Onegu is definitely mafia".
What happens when ritoky flips and D3 begins:
On March 16 2015 20:25 prplhz wrote:
i don't know
palmar is town because dumb trolling
marv is town because huge filter
rayn town because fake claim to lynch scum
koshi because pushed jat
onegu town because claimed vt
those are very simplistic reasons but lets just close our eyes and assume they're all true. there are reasons these people could be mafia but my eyes are CLOSED right now.
that leaves damdred/FF + eden.
lol
i just think damdred and eden look town but everybody looks town.
Like this is information that has been thread since Onegu made his FIRST post. Suddenly NOW it becomes a towntell for prplhz?
I just can't see how any of these read progressions can come from a townie. Especially when in multiple games he refuses to even consider lynching me because "rayn is valuable to town and finds mafia, if he doesn't, then we can lynch him". Yes i know very well this is also what he said in Titanic game aswell but it does not matter, it does matter he thinks so AS TOWN (see for example Cell game where he instantly claims he wants my/HF cells alive later on in the game). I don't see how any of his voting makes any sense given the content he has provided in thread.
Eden:
This is from his D1 reads. I don't agree with it at all.
(5) I think prplhz is town. Again I could be sleeping on his mafia game and/or misremembering things here, but despite not really paying any attention to Titanic I remember thinking he was vaguely suspicious, and (iirc) he was mafia there. Here I see him very blatantly trying to be productive, which I don't remember from Titanic. I like his questioning me about my vote on JAT for example, even though I have no intention of playing ball about it right now
I don't think he evfer explains why prplhz seems "productive", especially more productive than he was in Titanic. Elaboration would be nice. The answer is not "because he questioned my vote on JAT" because that post was obviously questionable.
Meh, Eden actually tried real hard to get ritokyl lynched with his scumread JAT. I don't really how he goes from JAT being his top scumread to ritoky on D1. Because of something JAT said? There should be quite much natural resistance against when your top scumread makes a case on someone upon being lynched. Unless the case is really good, which clearly was not the point here as the case was "ritoky is not playing". I don't think that is a good enough case to trust in Eden's situation here, as itis an obvious case to make for mafia!JAT.
I also do not understand how Eden goes from "ritoky is the best lynch, if not D1 i am lynching him D2" into "I'm not bragging on JAT cause I wavered but I am totally pushing my credit for Damdred if he flips scum. We should sheep my case on him tomorrow"
into -> "Damdred is my best pick. After that it's probably Onegu. That's all I got right now".
... Like i know ritoky was town and all that shit but this is just not natural. Because either Eden (from town perspective) didn't give a fuck if he lynches a townie or mafia on D1 if he thinks exactly one of JAT/ritoky is scum, or he thought both of them are scum, which makes this even more scummy.
Furthermore in his reads list on N1 he gives all the reasons for ritoky to be mafia in this instance, and ends up in a conclusion "ritoky is town"?!?!?!
ritoky is probably town on further reflection. There seemed to be a brief window where the lynch was in question, with ray, ritoky and JAT as the three wagons. JAT was very animated about getting people who weren't committed against him or ray to vote for ritoky over him. I think it was Koshi who called it the "time when JAT had hope" of not being lynched, and he spent an awful lot of it trying to get ritoky lynched. The catch here is that JAT is the better scumsided player compared to ritoky pretty easily, and I'd think that in most cases a given scumteam would rather sac ritoky to save JAT than the reverse. (No offense ritoky, it's not that you're bad, it's that JAT has arguably the best scumside game of anyone currently active on TL Mafia.) So JAT busing isn't out of the question. And it's not like ritoky has played a scintillating obvtown game either. But the reason this is more likely town is simple - if the mafia team had decided to bus (which, if they're both mafia, JAT pushing ritoky hard = bus), why didn't ritoky push to get JAT lynched? It's too glaring an inconsistency to ignore, so I think ritoky is probably town.
I still don't like his reaction to Palmar's vigi claim. Maybe i am wrong on this and it does not mean anything but i have seen manyu times scum say something to give out they have extra information they should not. Two examples:
- that game where i claimed masons with SL's scumbuddy. After the reaction i got i was like "yeah these two guys are definitely mafia together" but than i was retarded and dumped it because it sounded too easy.
- one game where i claimed mafia had tried to see if i was their traitor (in the game if mafia incorrectly guesses who the traitor is that townie will know mafia has tried to guess them), i got "lol they did not guess you" -> ezpz traitor read, dumb town never lynched him obviously...
I don't know if i am reading too much into this and it bothers me because i KNOW i have been right on this kinda stuff before. But everyone seems to be disagreeing with me as "rsoultin was Eden's top town read yadda yadda" whatever he gave as an explanation. I just do not see why he would make that post, ever, as town.
At some point on D2 he goes from hardcore scumreading Damdred and Onegu to this:
On March 15 2015 03:33 Eden1892 wrote:^^^^ i am serious about palmarv team though. or at least one part of it: ##VOTE: Palmarthis guy isn't figuring the game out and hardclaimed cop with an inno on ray claiming to believe ray was godfather. like lol pls. and i think damdred is incorrect to say that palmar has been trolling a lot; he has been trollish to an extent but it's actually a lot less pervasive than i remember from his town games. i'm also not sure that him not pushing lynches super-hard indicates town, because he tends to lock in on a target VERY decisively as town (see Hammertime Mafia for a recent example). i'm not sure who the partner would be. marv comes to mind, i don't feel the same level of investment that i've come to expect from town!marv, but i also feel like his interaction with jat is uncharacteristic of his mafia game. i think everyone damdred townread before his final 4 is probably town, and mostly for the reasons damdred said, to boot my issue is that i like onegu AND ritoky for town :/ i'm not writing off damdred but he's not my lynch today. maybe another day will help sort this out? but palmar has to go imo
I don't even know why?? He never explains why Damdred is no more mafia. He never explains why Onegu is no more mafia, he just "doesn't even care about Onegu" anymore. Maybe it's the dumb VT claim, which, again, has been there for fucking ages.
Well okay, he explains them later. So Damdred did this AtE thing and Onegu claimed VT. rofl. Those things are really easy to do as mafia, rage, or write some words. Fuck i don't know, maybe Eden iss town after all it seems consistent with his line of thinking during the game regarding other things....
idk, someone help me out here? I really don't know what to think of this. This kinda reminds me of myself when i started playing mafia but way worse. It seems like Eden does shit for no reason and changes his mind for no reason. I know he is a hardcore busser. So he probably has balls to say whatever shit he evercomes up with as mafia. I don't care about meta here, i want to understand why Eden does these things if he is town because i refuse just believe someone is incapable of doing irrational things as mafia....
Here are the people i want to focus on today because i am almost absolutely sure there is two mafia in this group.
Onegu is definitely the scummiest purely based on the lack of content and i want to murder him with fire.
purplehaze looks scummier than Eden, but i would like both of these two to explain why they have done the stuff i outlined here. One of them has to be town. And there has to be a reasonable explanation for that person.
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rayn I secretly want to vote Onegu with you, but don't tell anyone
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Like just to make you feel uncomfortable about it, I really want to kill onegu too. The problem here is that I feel like that would be conceding to the "simple" solution, which I guess isn't a bad thing. It just feels wrong to do it.
And even then, who is his partner? FF? Eden?
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EPT
