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On February 24 2015 10:34 Half the Sky wrote:
This is true. Anyhow, I can explore that dirty mind later.
I look forward to it bb~
So far based on tone, I'd say so far Artanis seems laid back, same with Eden whose starting off with the usual banter.
I'm pretty sure I came off as laid back in Imperial as well, which you shadowed. Do you feel that I've come off significantly more laid back this game than that game, or why do you still come off with a (albeit minor) townread on me from that?
Also where'd Yamamoto head off to? I guess it's cool that he's supported my mayoral campaign but still.
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Have you been lurking all this time? If so I may just have to OMGUS you.
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On February 24 2015 10:42 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 10:18 Half the Sky wrote:So Eden wants to get dirty, hey Artanis, what do think of that?  he wasn't invited
What?! 
On February 24 2015 10:42 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 10:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Have you been lurking all this time? If so I may just have to OMGUS you. ![[image loading]](http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/03/Bring-it-gif.gif)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/mkCXrcK.gif)
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Tormented do you have any reads yet?
Yamato can you explain your scum tone read on me?
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That's not an explanation, that's a quote.
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Tone reads can still be explained. "X sounds like it's more likely to come from mafia than town because it seems to be too self-conscious/overly explicitly joking/quoted himself when no town player ever would."
Come on step it up m8
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That doesn't really help me figure out your alignment though. Your unhelpfulness is duly noted.
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On February 24 2015 11:03 _Tormented_ wrote:
@Artanis, I am still working out people's play styles. For instance, I could say you try very hard to come off as town and increase activity in order to draw suspicion away from yourself or that could just be the way you are normally. Still forming my opinions honestly.
Town and mafia explanations are possible for almost all actions. The question is: Which is more likely? Paranoia is fine and all but in the end you're going to have to make commitments with incomplete information.
You don't have to give me 100% reads, just tell me where your head is now.
Also I'm going to bed now.
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Good morning. Yamato is right on Tormented I think but his case is shit. Here's a good case.
_Tormented_
He starts out with a lot of posts not giving out any reads, so I ask him if he has any reads yet. He gives a very paranoid answer, something pretty typical for newbie town.
On February 24 2015 11:03 _Tormented_ wrote:
@Artanis, I am still working out people's play styles. For instance, I could say you try very hard to come off as town and increase activity in order to draw suspicion away from yourself or that could just be the way you are normally. Still forming my opinions honestly.
He calls me possibly town, but maybe tryhard mafia. No real reasoning other than just pure paranoia. Initial town lean, but I wanted some more info, so I asked him if he couldn't give any reads anyhow.
On February 24 2015 11:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 11:03 _Tormented_ wrote:
@Artanis, I am still working out people's play styles. For instance, I could say you try very hard to come off as town and increase activity in order to draw suspicion away from yourself or that could just be the way you are normally. Still forming my opinions honestly. Town and mafia explanations are possible for almost all actions. The question is: Which is more likely? Paranoia is fine and all but in the end you're going to have to make commitments with incomplete information. You don't have to give me 100% reads, just tell me where your head is now.
What I was expecting here were a bunch of weak town reads, maybe a mafia lean here or there but nothing strong. Instead, this is what I get:
On February 24 2015 11:13 _Tormented_ wrote:
lol fine, here ya go before I have to leave work. Take it for what you will.
Player List
1) Probulous (filter) - town
2) Artanis[Xp] (filter) - town or overly aggressive mafia
3) Half the Sky (filter) - town
4) sicklucker (filter) - town
5) Tronak (filter) - no clue
6) Yamato77 (filter) - mafia
7) _Tormented_ (filter) - town
8) Node (filter) - no clue
9) The Shining (filter) - no clue
10) Eden1892 (filter) - either mafia or he is just being obtuse for no reason
11) WaveofShadow (filter) - no clue
12) Damdred (filter) - town
13) snarfs (filter) - no clue
Now what's interesting about this is that the only one he's actively paranoid of that has posted is the two people he's already commented on. The rest, apparently he's pretty happy calling town or mafia. It's this change in mindset that doesn't make any sense, especially taken into consideration he wasn't willing to commit on a read on me and Eden.
For him to be town, his thought process would have to be: "I don't know anyone's playstyle so I don't trust anyone, except these 5 people I townread without an explanation whilst still leaving a question mark on the two people I already talked about."
A mafia thought process is much simpler. First, when questioned on his reads, he stalls for time by saying he doesn't know people's styles yet. Then, when pressured to still give reads he tries to keep his story straight by being paranoid on the two people he's already commented on, but forgets to keep that same paranoia for the rest of the field.
I feel his paranoia is feigned and I want to lynch him.
##Vote _Tormented_
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On February 24 2015 22:21 Tronak wrote:+ Show Spoiler +After re-reading all, Going to throw some open questions and my thinkings about them:
1) Snarfs, why would you suggest a RNG voting being town and a veteran player?
Either was a simple way to make fellow townies show up them selves or in my newbie opinion should be read as a scummy post.
2) Artanis' opening: why would you introduce Mayors voting if game setup is given?
Opening joke? Mayor is usually a starting point and you didnt read game setup? This follows another game? If not, I would read your post as mafia. If yes, is
-Yamato quickly (1min later) votes for lyching Artanis . And Mayor joke appears again. Why?
I can only read 2 mafias trying to create confusion, but I would be happy to hear what you both think about this.
3) Tormented throws his bomb list.
Want to think, Tormented thought similar to me (above) and when pressured by Artanis to give his reads made a quick list pointing out both names (Artanis and Yamato). Would mafia do this? I dont think so, it was too early from my point of view, too much to lose.
4) Probulous accuses Damdred: I like Probolous' read and arguments given against Damdred so much that when I first read his post all my senses were focused on analysing Damdred's following posts. Up to this point, I think Probolous wins the mini batle and Damdred will need to give futher arguments to convince me about his alignment.
5) Yamato appears again to switch completly thread's focus and focus on Tormented again giving good arguments based on filtered history. Snarfs looks like aproving this switch very fast and Artanis pushes this line further in his last post.
If Yamato/Snarf or Artanis were mafia, would they like to lynch a "tormented" townie and use this line to save a suspected Damdred? Sure!
Conclusion: despite all guides about Mafia I have read suggest scum wouldn't be so active in the first hours of the game, from my point of view so far, all makes me think that at least 1 or 2 scums must be between the list of names mentioned in this post (with no exceptions). However I can't arrive to single point any of them and the innocents should also be very valuable for the town. I see the names not mentioned in this post as townies so far. So, I hope your answers for my wall of text clear my way.
I think you're putting far too much thought in early game banter. The mayor stuff was trolling around, something similar happens at the start of just about every game.
On February 25 2015 00:26 _Tormented_ wrote:
Artanis, you asked for a read and I have a quick list on what I was currently feeling. I want about to sit there and give percentages on every person while I was late leaving from work. I know I am town, therefore I obviously have serious questionmarks about you and yamato.
My point is that you committed to reads on everyone but me and Eden. What discerns your paranoia on me and Eden from the rest of your list? What makes us more "null" and why did you choose that wording rather than no clue which you used for others?
On February 25 2015 01:48 Node wrote:
Oops, second sentence in first paragraph should read:
You've quoted none of the people you say are suspicious, you haven't engaged any of them directly, and you're straight-up refusing to commit to anything, even as you push multiple targets.
You've said you don't think Damdred is scum, yet you seem to call everything he does suspicious. What's going on here?
On February 25 2015 03:07 Damdred wrote:
Art is probably town, i think the case and other thoughts show a clear progression of thought and actions. Seems to be helping the thread somewhat, town pile for today.
What'd you actually think of the case?
On February 25 2015 03:13 yamato77 wrote:
I don't particularly like that artanis dropped his case and then peaced out. hm.
No one posted for an hour, I like having conversations so I just left and hoped people would reply to the actual case when I got back. You people are a disappointment.
On February 25 2015 03:18 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 03:15 WaveofShadow wrote:
How do you feel about his case? Did it improve on yours at all? Do you feel. More convinced now? Not very convincing, and he doesn't stick around to legitimize it either. ehhhhhhhh
Oh the ironing
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Also Snarfs, that's the second time you're asking someone for an opinion on me without giving your own. What's up buddy?
I also want more comments on my case.
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I get back and suddenly everyone goes afk again.
Damdred, you were here when I posted. What are your thoughts on the case?
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Wave you've mentioned that you missed Node, so I presume you're familiar with him. What do you make of his play so far?
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On February 25 2015 04:18 Damdred wrote:
Was driving oj these roads of mine.
Your case isn't bad art. I am hesitant just because I could see a newb new to tl doing it just ad much as scum, does it make him town no it makes him more likely scum.
Wave you are like talking to a brick wall. 6 hours into the game Hts barely has half a page of posts probably with very little actually to go on. Not enough to convince others yet, better to get more information.
I displayed how his thought process is inconsistent. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective, newbie or not doesn't come into it.
On February 25 2015 04:40 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 04:18 Damdred wrote:
Was driving oj these roads of mine.
Your case isn't bad art. I am hesitant just because I could see a newb new to tl doing it just ad much as scum, does it make him town no it makes him more likely scum.
Wave you are like talking to a brick wall. 6 hours into the game Hts barely has half a page of posts probably with very little actually to go on. Not enough to convince others yet, better to get more information.
THE WHY WERE YOU SO OCNFIDENT OF HIS SCUMMINESS TO BEGIN WITH Am I the only one seeing this? Somebody please let me know.
Comment on my case and I may let you know.
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On February 25 2015 04:49 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 04:47 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On February 25 2015 04:18 Damdred wrote:
Was driving oj these roads of mine.
Your case isn't bad art. I am hesitant just because I could see a newb new to tl doing it just ad much as scum, does it make him town no it makes him more likely scum.
Wave you are like talking to a brick wall. 6 hours into the game Hts barely has half a page of posts probably with very little actually to go on. Not enough to convince others yet, better to get more information.
I displayed how his thought process is inconsistent. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective, newbie or not doesn't come into it. On February 25 2015 04:40 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 25 2015 04:18 Damdred wrote:
Was driving oj these roads of mine.
Your case isn't bad art. I am hesitant just because I could see a newb new to tl doing it just ad much as scum, does it make him town no it makes him more likely scum.
Wave you are like talking to a brick wall. 6 hours into the game Hts barely has half a page of posts probably with very little actually to go on. Not enough to convince others yet, better to get more information.
THE WHY WERE YOU SO OCNFIDENT OF HIS SCUMMINESS TO BEGIN WITH Am I the only one seeing this? Somebody please let me know. Comment on my case and I may let you know. I'm not saying your wrong I'm just saying that where he comes from its not that uncommon a thing to do and besides that pace is different and he's never been asked to hive reads on day one. So I'm a little hesitant
That's all fine and dandy, but that doesn't explain his sudden change from paranoia to giving concrete reads on everyone except the people he claimed to be paranoid of despite being paranoid of everyone just a few moments ago.
On February 25 2015 05:29 Snarfs wrote:
Artanis, I think you're suspicious. That's why I'm asking other people their opinion on you. I think you said a lot of nothing yesterday before leaving and that your case on Tormented is not adding more than a single line could, but it conveniently fills lots of space nicely.
What nothing did I say beyond the initial game trolling and how would you explain my point on Tormented in a single line? I felt it needed a narrative to drive the point home.
Your meta towncase on Node also feels arbitrary. You picked out an aspect that Node used in a town game and didn't use in his mafia game and presumed that it's alignment indicative because they're different, but correlation does not imply causation. Without having been in the game or reading them entirely, it's pretty much impossible to tell what drove him to post differently in that regard. Meta is useful for general trends but I don't believe the way you used it is indicative of anything. I could prove just about anything I wanted using a mafia and towngame of any one player.
On February 25 2015 06:07 WaveofShadow wrote:
Yeah chances are damdred isn't scum.
If I were to continue playing as I normally would I'd probably tunnel him uselessly till days end but I'm sure there's a good reason people haven't picked up on what I found to be marginally significant.
I'll be looking elsewhere when I get the chance. I still want you to wow me with something though, damdred. I want to know why I lost one of those 2014 awards to you.
I don't like this defeatist attitude. I had a pretty good townread on you so far but this is weaksauce. I remember Wave in Shadow consistently going against the grain with his own thoughts and no matter what the other veterans said, he continued on his own thought pattern. I find this very atypical of townWave.
On February 25 2015 06:31 Eden1892 wrote:
I think HTS replaced out because she's mafia, now to go read the thread for people who probably aren't mafia due to that
Can we please not do this?
On February 25 2015 06:57 Tronak wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 03:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I also want more comments on my case. I cant take seriously your case on Tormented, lyching someone for being paranoid on you during first posts while you were trolling around is not a solid argument from my point of view. First I thought you could be putting some pressure on Tormented, now I am thinking, again, you are trying to bring attention to a dead point, again.
That's not my argument at all. My argument is that he was paranoid of everyone at first, then when asked to give reads on people the only people he's paranoid of is the people he's mentioned before in his filter, and then there's that he separates between "town or mafia" and "no clue" for no apparent reason whatsoever.
Eden Node is probably town, stop pestering him. Pester this guy instead
On February 25 2015 07:33 yamato77 wrote:
I think ksc might be mafia.
I remember him being obstinate as town but not altogether unwilling to participate. He was much more forthcoming in the game I played with him.
I still kinda think tormented is town mafia but it's more up in the air with Artanis being on the lynch as well and the question mark I have for him.
Are you seriously making unflipped associations right now?
Like, really?
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Damdred, why do you like Yamato?
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On February 25 2015 08:09 yamato77 wrote:
I'm not making unflipped associations, I'm judging my read on a player against how other people are reading them and what I think of the player doing the reading.
You're lessening a scumread on someone because someone you don't scumread but see as a "question mark" also scumreads him. I'd expect that from Vivax, but not you.
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On February 25 2015 08:15 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 08:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On February 25 2015 08:09 yamato77 wrote:
I'm not making unflipped associations, I'm judging my read on a player against how other people are reading them and what I think of the player doing the reading. You're lessening a scumread on someone because someone you don't scumread but see as a "question mark" also scumreads him. I'd expect that from Vivax, but not you. sick vivax burn My read isn't weaker, it's simply that I'm unsure about committing to the lynch. The two are different.
Okay, that's fair I suppose.
On February 25 2015 08:16 _Tormented_ wrote:
@Artanis - What about my list gave you any impression at all that I was dead certain about anyone? You demanded reads, so I gave you what I was currently leaning toward at the time. I did not have the time to write an essay about each person and honestly I don't really trust any of my reads yet until I get accustomed to the pace at which you all play on this site. Also, I am not "paranoid", I just honestly don't have any concrete reads yet and any reads I would give would be 75% guess work right now. If that makes me mafia, then your loss.
The reason I'm scumreading you for it is because your first post mentioned you didn't have any strong reads at all. You never gave a reason for being hesitant on me other than being afraid of "aggressive scum", yet you never applied this reasoning to any of your townreads. Your paranoia was selective which doesn't correspond to a town thought process, but rather one where you're just making stuff up on the spot, and are thus mafia.
I was aware that those reads aren't dead certain, the point is that you didn't express that paranoia for anyone but myself and Eden in your reads without ever giving a reason why you'd be more paranoid of us than any of your townreads.
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On February 25 2015 08:35 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 08:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Damdred, why do you like Yamato? He has thoughts pushes thoughts, has a good prwacense in the thread
What thoughts has he pushed other than a pretty poor case on Tormented which he isn't pushing anymore because he's been shitting unsubstantiated 'question marks' at me? I see a Yamato on the sidelines that isn't really doing much other than throwing dirt on me where possible, with a few idle questions here and there.
On February 25 2015 08:53 KelsierSC wrote:fuck it mind blown time is now boys. so I had SL as my scum read early because his posting was pretty fucking awful. just a feeling then he made this gem. Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 06:14 sicklucker wrote:
Snarf is town because his first post was asking about players he didnt know. This is the strongest opening because as town its also what I want to know and It was my opening to answer it.
Dandred is town because Ive played him as mafia 3 times and he just lurked. When he leads the discusion day1 hes always been town in like 9 games ive played with him as town. Ive had this read for quite awile and im glad we finally both rolled town for once so I can use it. Like this kind of "meta" read on damdred is like the most superficial garbage . Damdred can just talk to a thread it isn't beyond his intelligence. Maybe damdred is town but SL shouldn't be reading him town. So then I'm like well SL makes bad reads as both alignments, and as for his arrogance, well he is an obnoxious mo fo in general. I remember in a mafia game he said he had hf "twisted around his finger" hehe so i'm like ok maybe i'm not sure. let's step back , he's a fool. let's see what he does. Since I stepped back we get... Nothing. He doesn't give a shit about this. Just two shit tier town reads. I got him boys, join in on this
##Vote SickLucker
Why does scum sicklucker not give as much of a shit as town sicklucker in this position? From what I recall him saying he actively tries to be unreadable by not giving as much of a shit in general as town when it isn't necessary.
On February 25 2015 08:58 WaveofShadow wrote:
Artanis, bad bad. Using meta to describe my play? Plz. And even worse still, using months old meta. The reason my town play isn't like Shadow or like you're used to is because my town play is shit and I'm trying to improve myself. Yamato will vouch.
As for reads yamato, my schedule has been particularly brutal as of Monday. I'll try to look at stuff after iris tonight.
Have you played any games that aren't months old though? I actually still need to check if you go along with town sentiment more as mafia to collaborate it too but I recalled very strongly that you do your own thing regardless of town sentiment. It is most certainly not bad.
I'm gonna go do that now.
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EPT
