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VII Titanic Mini Mafia: I Have a Cunning Plan... - Page 2

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
February 14 2015 06:50 GMT
#283
On February 14 2015 15:49 liancourt wrote:
who we lynching today?


The objective RNG picked VA, which is a 30% chance of being scum which is pretty darned good for D1, so let's lynch VayneAuthority.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
February 14 2015 06:56 GMT
#299
On February 14 2015 15:54 Half the Sky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2015 15:49 Blazinghand wrote:
Well, objectively I'm choosing to scumread him because he got RNGed. Do you deny that he got RNGed? It was truly random and gives us a 30% chance to lynch scum, which is way better than any other case so far. The real question here is why aren't you voting VA yet


BH, come on. Yes that was a reason, no I am not denying he got RNGed. But you stated another reason to objectively scumread him. My criticism is of the bolded:

Show nested quote +
On February 14 2015 15:39 Blazinghand wrote:
Interestingly, it looks like in addition to being objectively correct due to RNG, it is ALSO objectively correct to lynch VA because he has so little content. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/477800-vii-titanic-mini-mafia-i-have-a-cunning-plan?user=VayneAuthority

He's clearly here but has not posted enough


I am disputing your OTHER objective reason for scumreading him.

Show nested quote +
On February 14 2015 15:47 Half the Sky wrote:
So Blazinghand, D1 meta for Vayne is that he does jack all. We're less than 2h into the game. Further, you're objectively scumreading him for doing jack all, when it's his known meta?

I had previously scumread him because compared to what he normally posts all of D1, which is jack all, I think in comparison, he was posting too much within the first few bits of the game here, though he's (reasonably) countering that it's because of the weird start time.



Fine, let's say that reason is crap, he still has a 30% chance to flip scum, and RNG has never failed me, even once. Vote him.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
February 14 2015 09:26 GMT
#370
On February 14 2015 17:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Blazinghand, let's be honest:
Are you forging that read on vayne? The one besides rng?


Of course. I don't know the dude's meta at all, but people will probably buy it; people aren't very bright.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
February 14 2015 09:34 GMT
#372
On February 14 2015 18:29 Superbia wrote:
Yo BH.

Did you have your target ready before your posted your RNG post?


No, the RNG post actually determines the target itself. The fact that you're asking this question means that you haven't understood how RNG works, because you didn't actually read my post. Ugh. Let me explain for you.

1. I make a post that says, "this post is the dice roll". This is post A.
2. Post A has a global post #, something like 8349012849230 or whatever. I take that number and use it as the basis of my RNG.
3. I make a post called post B showing my math based on post A, and I place a vote.

This means that I can't possibly know who is being RNGed and have zero control over the RNG, and there's no way for me to "take back" or "reroll" the RNG.

The fact that you're asking your question shows disrespect for my posts, as you clearly didn't understand them. I'm disappointed.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
February 14 2015 09:40 GMT
#374
On February 14 2015 18:38 Superbia wrote:
The fact that I'm asking underlines my shock at you being able to follow up your RNG explanation post with:

- Generating a random number.
- Moduling this number.
- Translating the number to a name on your list.
- Making a follow up post.

In a minute.


Thanks!
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
February 14 2015 09:41 GMT
#375
Like, you're welcoem to check my math broseph
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
February 14 2015 09:49 GMT
#384
On February 14 2015 18:43 Superbia wrote:
I'm not doubting your math. I'm doubting the genuineness behind the RNG.

On February 14 2015 18:44 Superbia wrote:
Why did you feel the need to split up the explanation post and the post with the actual RNG?

ಠ_ಠ
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
February 14 2015 11:23 GMT
#415
On February 14 2015 20:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2015 20:13 Palmar wrote:
Do you think the miller claim means hts is mafia rayn?

Yes. Not 100% but more than likely.
I am lynching that anyways. I don't see a reason for claiming as town because your job is to look townie ny your actions, something that is not expected from mafia. But townies do not fear getting cop checked. Because cops are supposed to check scummy playwers and you should not think youare scummy as town.

The claim represents fear of being viewed as mafia, which... See above.


1. cops should optimally check into players who are semi-scummy but not optimal lynch targets, so your'e wrong about that
2. people claim miller all the time as town
3. townies dont' fear getting cop checked because they return miller to cop checks. with a miller this isn't true.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
February 14 2015 11:23 GMT
#416
On February 14 2015 20:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2015 20:13 Palmar wrote:
Do you think the miller claim means hts is mafia rayn?

Yes. Not 100% but more than likely.
I am lynching that anyways. I don't see a reason for claiming as town because your job is to look townie ny your actions, something that is not expected from mafia. But townies do not fear getting cop checked. Because cops are supposed to check scummy playwers and you should not think youare scummy as town.

The claim represents fear of being viewed as mafia, which... See above.


1. cops should optimally check into players who are semi-scummy but not optimal lynch targets, so your'e wrong about that
2. people claim miller all the time as town
3. townies don't fear getting cop checked because they return innocent to cop checks. with a miller this isn't true.
EBWOP
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
February 14 2015 11:26 GMT
#420
On February 14 2015 20:24 Palmar wrote:
yeah I was confused by the miller returns

it would kinda defeat the purpose of miller if cop checks on a miller didn't return guilty or innocent, just "miller"
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
February 14 2015 11:28 GMT
#423
On February 14 2015 20:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2015 20:22 Palmar wrote:
So basically this is why I called rayn mafia. I'm reading the game backwards so I hadn't seen at the time the point where he actually does say it's a policy lynch.

On February 14 2015 17:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I think hts is scum because townies do not fear getting copped.
They never should.


It is extremely scummy to try and justify policy lynches as something other than policy lynches. If we lynch HTS, it's a policy lynch for claiming miller. I personally hate millers claiming on day 1, and in theory agree with policy lynching them, recent games basically make it a dumb move to act on. I'm not saying we give HTS a pass, just that we ignore the claim and treat her like anyone else.

So I basically called rayn mafia because I believed he was trying to say HTS was mafia for something that absolutely does not make her mafia. It makes her the target of a policy lynch, and of course she might be mafia. But the claim is not a reason to call her mafia.

1) HTS claimed miller and therefore she is mafia <---- wrong
2) HTS claimed miller which is a mafia favored move so we should policy lynch her <--- right

That's the difference. Trying to make policy lynch something it isn't basically makes rayn mafia.

The problem is, I'm reading the game backwards so I hadn't seen on the previous page rayn actually calls it a policy lynch, which makes it much less bad.

The bolded is what i am saying.


ok I get it you got a general policy of lynching miller claims. I can respect that. How about a policy voting pact? If my RNG lynch is close to winning and your miller push isn't working, you vote for VA today?
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
February 14 2015 11:30 GMT
#425
On February 14 2015 20:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2015 20:28 Blazinghand wrote:
On February 14 2015 20:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On February 14 2015 20:22 Palmar wrote:
So basically this is why I called rayn mafia. I'm reading the game backwards so I hadn't seen at the time the point where he actually does say it's a policy lynch.

On February 14 2015 17:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I think hts is scum because townies do not fear getting copped.
They never should.


It is extremely scummy to try and justify policy lynches as something other than policy lynches. If we lynch HTS, it's a policy lynch for claiming miller. I personally hate millers claiming on day 1, and in theory agree with policy lynching them, recent games basically make it a dumb move to act on. I'm not saying we give HTS a pass, just that we ignore the claim and treat her like anyone else.

So I basically called rayn mafia because I believed he was trying to say HTS was mafia for something that absolutely does not make her mafia. It makes her the target of a policy lynch, and of course she might be mafia. But the claim is not a reason to call her mafia.

1) HTS claimed miller and therefore she is mafia <---- wrong
2) HTS claimed miller which is a mafia favored move so we should policy lynch her <--- right

That's the difference. Trying to make policy lynch something it isn't basically makes rayn mafia.

The problem is, I'm reading the game backwards so I hadn't seen on the previous page rayn actually calls it a policy lynch, which makes it much less bad.

The bolded is what i am saying.


ok I get it you got a general policy of lynching miller claims. I can respect that. How about a policy voting pact? If my RNG lynch is close to winning and your miller push isn't working, you vote for VA today?

No chance i am voting for VA, he is town.


Didn't you see the part where I RNGed him? He must be scum, RNG says so and it's right 100% of the time, 30% of the time in this setup.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
February 14 2015 11:31 GMT
#428
On February 14 2015 20:30 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2015 20:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On February 14 2015 20:28 Blazinghand wrote:
On February 14 2015 20:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On February 14 2015 20:22 Palmar wrote:
So basically this is why I called rayn mafia. I'm reading the game backwards so I hadn't seen at the time the point where he actually does say it's a policy lynch.

On February 14 2015 17:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I think hts is scum because townies do not fear getting copped.
They never should.


It is extremely scummy to try and justify policy lynches as something other than policy lynches. If we lynch HTS, it's a policy lynch for claiming miller. I personally hate millers claiming on day 1, and in theory agree with policy lynching them, recent games basically make it a dumb move to act on. I'm not saying we give HTS a pass, just that we ignore the claim and treat her like anyone else.

So I basically called rayn mafia because I believed he was trying to say HTS was mafia for something that absolutely does not make her mafia. It makes her the target of a policy lynch, and of course she might be mafia. But the claim is not a reason to call her mafia.

1) HTS claimed miller and therefore she is mafia <---- wrong
2) HTS claimed miller which is a mafia favored move so we should policy lynch her <--- right

That's the difference. Trying to make policy lynch something it isn't basically makes rayn mafia.

The problem is, I'm reading the game backwards so I hadn't seen on the previous page rayn actually calls it a policy lynch, which makes it much less bad.

The bolded is what i am saying.


ok I get it you got a general policy of lynching miller claims. I can respect that. How about a policy voting pact? If my RNG lynch is close to winning and your miller push isn't working, you vote for VA today?

No chance i am voting for VA, he is town.


Didn't you see the part where I RNGed him? He must be scum, RNG says so and it's right 100% of the time, 30% of the time in this setup.


OK sorry this was adumb reply

better reply

"why do you think he's town? is it really just based on lame meta speculation that town VA is lazy, or is there something more to it? please be detailed and explain in yoru own words."
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
February 14 2015 11:32 GMT
#430
On February 14 2015 20:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Where do you get the 30%?
There is 4 scum.


There's 5 scum: 4 mafia and 1 SK.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
February 15 2015 00:08 GMT
#729
So, guys. It looks like nobody can agree on any sort of wagon, right? I think it's fair to say that we're in a bit of a disarray. Palmar recently was talking about the importance of sheeping as a skill. You see, with 5 votes on 5 different wagons we're in a bad place. There's no clear town consensus or counterwagon forming, and everyone is pulling every which way trying to make things happen. If like, one scum votes one way then that wagon could jump into the lead or something, and it wouldn't be clear where people stand because none of these wagons are important enough yet (another reason why Majority Lynch is better than Plurality Lynch)... but most importantly, people seem afraid to sheep. Sheeping is important! It's a vital skill. Here, Palmar from the Past will tell you:

On March 12 2014 17:57 Palmar wrote:
A little point about this game:

It really, really proves the value of NOT GETTING LYNCHED as town. For some reason staying alive, just like sheeping, is a pretty devalued skill in mafia. Everyone wants to focus on amazing reads and shit, and while those are great, the main job of any townie can simply be to not get lynched. If townies don't get lynched town wins the game by default.

On February 03 2015 00:23 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2015 23:12 Damdred wrote:
HTS was pretty towny d1 especially early part when I was talking to her with rsoultin not sure what was going on with that lol.

While I'm on the topic of underrated skillsets, HTS has an amazing ability look town when she is. She is just so painfully obviously town that it makes the game so much easier.

Like for some reason everyone seems to think the be-all end-all townplayer skill in mafia is to figure out who is mafia, when in reality it's only one of half a dozen or so very important skills that can't exist without each other.

The ability to convince, the ability to be townread, the ability to sheep when needed, the ability to control atmosphere and focus discussion etc etc etc.

This game was actually a very good example of how unimportant actually figuring out who the mafia is can be. If you polled people in this game, more than half of them would put me in the bottom half for performance as town here. But no one was more right on the mafia than I was this game. I literally tried to kill 3 people day 1 and those were the mafia. However:

I was not useful for direction/focus/atmosphere
I couldn't convince anyone to follow me
Half the players thought I was mafia.

I agree! I didn't play this game well at all. And of the two things I did right, only one of them was actually really good, and it wasn't the fact that I went after the entire mafia team. In the end my willingness to sheep Damdred's case and thus make a good judgement call is something I'm far more happy about than being right.

So yeah, don't sleep on players even if they are wrong sometimes. The #1 priority of any town player is to not get lynched.


So as you can see, we have problems in this thread because our votes are all over the place. People are focussed too much on trying to look good (for example, numerous peoples' extremely wrongheaded attack on my RNG) or like, trying to hunt scum or something, when they should be focused on constructing a solid town discourse. I propose we focus this discourse around my wagon on Vayne. It's the largest wagon by a good amount, and on top of that, despite his protestations Vayne isn't contributing. Oh, he might, and if he's town I'm sure he'll pick things up, but it's not like we lose anything by lynching him, or pushing a lynch on him. Think about all the people who have come out of the woodwork to attack my case, or even worse, to ignore it utterly. What's the agenda here? Clearly scum are afraid. Afraid of the glory of RNG.

Now, maybe you have your own cases, or your own ideas, and that's fine. I appreciate that. Maybe that one-vote case on rayn or whatever could be a thing. But right now, we need to focus on the task at hand, which is sheeping me and voting Vayne. It's our best chance to unify this town onto a solid goal, which is lynching according to RNG.

Vote Vayne, lynch him for unity and because you understand that sheeping me is an underrated skill.

any questions?
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
February 15 2015 00:30 GMT
#738
On February 15 2015 09:29 LightningStrike wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2015 09:29 VayneAuthority wrote:
rayn when you read this tell me how similar you find BH to his persona as Old Partner in golden sun. when I read his posts I feel like he is talking to other people and having a laugh. Reminds me of that game with how forced he is pushing this agenda with these long awful posts

Are you saying BH is Mafia by meta?

Sounds like it to me, but of course without examples or a real case. Just words.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
February 15 2015 01:38 GMT
#758
On February 15 2015 10:19 rsoultin wrote:
Also:

##unvote

BH, how does sheeping being a skill translate to sheeping you being a skill?


I'm the natural choice. I've made a solid case and gathered support for it. Nobody else has a read or a case with my level of conviction.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
February 15 2015 01:55 GMT
#766
On February 15 2015 10:53 Town Puppy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2015 10:38 Blazinghand wrote:
On February 15 2015 10:19 rsoultin wrote:
Also:

##unvote

BH, how does sheeping being a skill translate to sheeping you being a skill?


I'm the natural choice. I've made a solid case and gathered support for it. Nobody else has a read or a case with my level of conviction.

Yeah, but I made up for it with a case that is qualitatively better than "random vote that I push like it isn't one."

how many votes you got boyo

On February 15 2015 10:51 prplhz wrote:
@BlazingHand

If you have the only good case in the thread, isn't it really suspicious that people like raynpelikoneet and Palmar aren't paying much attention to it? What do you make of that?


nope
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
February 15 2015 02:12 GMT
#776
The VA lynch is most likely at this point. I commend myself for once again succeeding at RNG!
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
February 15 2015 09:10 GMT
#830
when VA flips scum you'll all apologise
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
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