EPTStudent Mafia IV (New/Newish Players Welcome) - Page 88
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Breshke
Australia3749 Posts
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
Breshke - Strong town I like the caution here. Questions everything. Isn't quick to sheep anyone. His reads, though not in line with mine, are well thought out. He deliberately draws people out and attempts to make them justify their actions/statements. All of this makes me more willing to believe his claim that he was blocked night 1. (Because yes, if the only reason I could find for his being town was the block claim, that would concern me, and I still doubt mafia would be so confident that Trfel was that last role as to not block anyone just to make the claim.) HTS - Strong town This of course assumes that you believe my alignment is town, but he refused to switch votes to me to save himself. His reasons for voting kush may have been wrong, and the argument can be made that town shouldn't go out on a limb for someone else, but even Damdred was willing to admit that he understood HTS' reasoning on kush. The only way I can see EoD 2 play as anything other than town is if he knew his scummate wouldn't get the vote in on time to lynch him. Otherwise it's not worth the risk if you're scum. Damdred and Hope were 00 votes, just on the cusp of making it. To deliberately get your vote in right before or right after deadline like that, so close, would take very careful timing. All 3 (bats, hope and damdred) were talking in those last 3 minutes, so no one was waiting by the post button watching the clock, or at least, I find it doubtful that they were. SL - Strong town He's all over the place, it's true, but it comes off more as whatever thoughts are going through his head at the time. Very stream of consciousness style. That he's not sure of things and changing his mind so much makes me think he's approaching the problem of finding scum from multiple angles, taking into consideration different what-ifs. I may not agree with his reads a lot, and this mindset he has that he's town so he doesn't care he's just trying to find scum, but his behavior itself isn't scummy. The fact that he seems to talk more when no talking is going on also supports the claim that he talks to get people talking. Meatpudding - Null leaning town Mostly circumstantial. Meatpudding has put in a few good reads. He and Breshke were talking during Day 2 I believe it was, and I remember thinking to myself when I read it that, regardless of whether I agreed with them or not, meatpudding seemed to be genuinely looking for scum. That's why I backed off him for a bit, before paranoia got the better of me again. Those few good reads are outweighed by the AFK and his not-terribly-good defense yesterday, though it did get better as the day progressed. So onto the mostly circumstantial part: two scums up for lynch? First, he was the uncontested vote of everyone in the player base. I was pulling teeth trying to get my point out there, and yes I did start cautious cause I knew people were looking at me hard for the hammer vote on kush and it went through my head that if I'm the one trying to push something people might just ignore it on principle...and oats is right. There wasn't a big pile on LS, which you'd half-expect if both were scum when it became clear LS was gaining traction and almost definitely going to be lynched. Oats - null I don't disagree with most anything he's said on principle, apart from a point here or there. A couple things bugging me about him though. He's very certain. So-and-so is scum, you have to see/believe, oh this is easy the scum team is definitely these people. He's been leaning hard on inactives/afkers/sheepers at least the latter part of the game. What's the likelihood that all are scum, and what makes him so certain about it? Also, why is he so certain about bats being town? Could bats be town? Yes. But who in their right mind wouldn't at least question it? I don't understand his sudden shift from bats is scum on day 1 to oh, okay, he's fine and then never another question. Can you answer that for me oats? Correction: 6th vote on meat, not 7th. Seems odd to me that a vet wouldn't even question that large a pile-on, but eh...he was the 3rd on LS though. And the only one on LS who I'm not almost completely certain is town, so if scum is going to buss he seems to be the most likely candidate. At the time, HTS and Breshke both looked willing to change votes, so high probability of an LS lynch at the time, and SL already had changed. Hopeless - null leaning scum Comes in to replace slam with about 60 pages to read. He did post a no-lynch vote, but at the time there were about six different players with votes on them, and he stated it was a placeholder while he was reading. He did start the shenanigans which is not something I was fond of lol, but continued asking people questions. About bats, what my reads were, etc. etc. even as the votes were playing out. He expressed doubt on lynching HTS...and I do like doubt, cause town is completely blind this game, but did it anyway based on his town read of kush. If he's with bats, he questions bats a second time, this time on LS, though doesn't change his vote. Excuse for AFKing is work. Weak case against SL. To me, if not for the extensive AFK and the comment about why bothering to try with meat being clearly scum, I'd be reading him as null or null leaning slight town. Bats - most probable scum Disclaimer: I am biased here. Early fight with Oats seemed pretty pointless, LS saying I forced his hand on Day 1 is only forced if he thought the other option of voting bats something he couldn't do. His vote when he voted dicks, if it had been on bats instead, would have brought the vote to 4 for bats vice 3 for dicks, and voting for the other outliers leaves it as 3 to 3. (Forget who tried to tell me that bats wasn't in danger of being lynched Day 1, but I say booya now lol i'm not going crazy. Though it looks like dicks tried to vote for bats but his wasn't counted because of a technicality, which is why it ended in 2 votes.) Hruuum circumstantial again, but HTS was echoing Trfel on the bats push. Odd how one died and the other nearly did. Caught bats in a couple lies/alzheimers moments when I was asking him about his HTS read. Bats has gotten progressively less active as time goes on in attempting to make reads/cases. Either he's super frustrated with us (odd given he stuck with it when he was under the gun) or he's staying out of the limelight and giving nothing but snark when he does comment for a reason. I see him defending LS all game, and when I said HTS and I probably had to be the same alignment he ignored me and later shifted from HTS being "townie" to possibly still mafia. I also find it interesting that he starts digging up something on me when I was pushing LS the first time and then went with kush over HTS. Seemed opportunistic. However, on that count, he did keep saying kush was town, so that could have been the motivation for the posts/votes at EoD 2. Conclusion: I'll probably be voting bats tomorrow unless people convince me another route is better. His getting progressively more silent/less helpful is something Damdred mentioned is usually a mafia trait for him, as well. I still do not think that he, Hopeless, and LS all are mafia since it seems a little too obvious...but, hey, people do make mistakes so it's possible. I would say though that I'm more suspicious of Oats than Hopeless if bats flips scum. Oats was all in bats' grill originally and now, when I would argue that bats is acting more scummy than he was in the beginning of the game, he seems very resistant to the idea that bats is scum. Odd, odd, odd. As a sidenote, since I just refreshed...yeah, I can see why you'd say that LS sheeping bats is not good enough, oats, and alone you're right, it isn't. But my case against bats was never solely that. LS was also a very new mafia player, so it's not crazy for him to make mistakes. Bats commenting on it could very easily be a way to say hey look, would I have commented if we were a scumteam? Especially if LS was going off the rails and doing things the rest of his team would have advised him not to had they had the chance. | ||
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sicklucker
Canada16987 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On December 03 2014 19:50 meatpudding wrote: What is the point of this? Half his reads are null anyway. Is there anything you can tell from here or any reason to repost it now? Read this AND the last thing I posted on his record. Now that we know LS is scum, I'm re-reading everything he's done and put out there. His list of threes tells me he seemed like he wanted to take you out for awhile, which makes me reconsider you as scum, second page, since all the reads are together, he probably didn't want to indicate he was possibly aligned with anyone. It's always good to go back and re-examine someone when their role is revealed and that's so that we aren't missing anything. I am also posting such that if anyone else here had a different opinion on this, they can say something on it. On December 03 2014 19:52 meatpudding wrote: That makes absolutely no sense. Any scum could have claimed not just the rb. Context. If there's one mafia left and it's the roleblocker...the key word here is AND. Even then I would take this a step further and say that if it's one scum left, we know it's RB, and the people left are what we think are the towncircle. Either way his situation he describes is that we know what specifics are being revealed as a scum goes. You read the N3 post right? It revealed LS as a goon, so we have one goon and the RB left. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
LS did post mostly null reads. Looking at all of them together might give more. And yes, it's true that Breshke could have false-claimed, and that it doesn't necessarily mean that he is the mafia RB cause all the mafia should know whether RB blocked anyone or not, right? I don't believe that he did, but the possibility does exist. | ||
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sicklucker
Canada16987 Posts
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Breshke
Australia3749 Posts
I also agree bats is probably the lynch tomorrow. In his mind if ls was scum he was never getting voted so if bats is town and had his way he would have lost the game. Being this wrong as town i would expect he would actually try and do something to make up for it. It still worrys me that damdred was so sure on him though so rsoultin could you quote the bit where he says when bats gets quieter it is more like his meta. Also i like oats he actually gave a reason to vote LS that made sense and stuck with it because even though i was saying i was willing to change my vote i was still campaigning for people to vote meat (not knowing meats alignment this doesn't mean that much) but eh at this stage i still think he is town. I don't see myself ever voting rsoultin, HTS or SL and it is good that at least one of us have to be alive in final 3. I think everyone should post a lynch order so we can try see where people disagree easier Bats Hopeless Meat Is mine from top to bottom. Just incase anyone is confused there is 3 names in case one of the first two is town. | ||
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Breshke
Australia3749 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Bats reads super scummy to me. Hope is a null. He did try to get me to play ball with him end of day 2, however, which is odd to me for scum.[QUOTE] QFE, massively. I thought Hopeless would have been a good candidate being a lurker but that's the thing, that's the only thing you can say, and lurking goes either way. He did cite work as a problem, and looking it over, he was called in as a replacement which is something that should be considered against that. Meat fell in for me partially because of lurking but I really didn't like most of his posts, as SL said, it is not easy to follow your train of thought in most of them. Ironically LS's posts once he was caught is what may have revealed the most about Meat. On the other hand, I can make a long laundry list of all the scumlike things that Bats has done. The way he played EoD 2 is probably the biggest red flag out there, I cannot imagine any universe where a townie would hold someone hostage to switch votes to someone else like that. The fact that Damdred went toe to toe with me for 40 minutes even though we reasoned at the end made me feel MUCH better about him, but Bats did none of that, hasn't taken questions, even Damdred and Hopeless both expressed reluctance to switch their votes back to me. Complete agreement with both of you SL and Rasputin, Bats needs to go, and he needs to go as soon as possible. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On November 26 2014 11:45 Damdred wrote: First good job, overall this is a really good case and took a lot of effort it looks like to put together. And for lolz I will say When has bats ever really shown logical critical thinking skills! ( I love you bats) The big thing about bats is that he has taken great strides to change his play between games. The style and tone of his play and if you can remember him is his biggest mafia give away and lurkiness. I do not think that you are necessarily wrong in what you are saying, we should be very suspicious of batsnacks and if he really stops doing things and is forgettable we lynch him immediately. But i'm not confident enough as it seems he is trying to push something when talking to people he does ask for reads from people. You are now town to me. ^ Ironically it was actually in his defense of batsnacks when trfel was attempting to put together a partial meta-read @ Breshke. I wouldn't say precisely that bats has been forgettable but he certainly has stopped doing much of anything ever since day 2. I hate meta reads. It was just a stray comment, since I know some people put more emphasis on it than I do. I mean, Damdred tried to meta-read me based on my mafia play...and I've never played as mafia lol. I was a vig a couple times maybe that was what he meant. Anyway. I'm digressing. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On December 03 2014 13:02 rsoultin wrote: Bats reads super scummy to me. Hope is a null. He did try to get me to play ball with him end of day 2, however, which is odd to me for scum. Damn quote boxes. I'll be completely honest, Rasputin, I might sound crazy here, but I just haven't been impressed with Meat's posting at all this game. Maybe it's inexperience, I think we're all learning. But even as a beginner myself I've had a difficult time following where he's trying to go with his posts half the time. Although now, I'm not as convinced he is scum after re-reading LS's posts. There are eight alive right now. I'm good on you, Breshke, SL, Rasputin We have Meat, Hopeless, Oats and Bats left. Meat could be scum, but it's unlikely, though I will admit I'm not sold on an argument yet as to why he's not. He did say he's bad at his defense, EoD D3. Hopeless is a complete tossup. Bats is the clear scum for me. I think if we take him out, that will reveal all we need to know about Oats. So in order: Bats, Hopeless and a tossup between Oats and Meat. | ||
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Breshke
Australia3749 Posts
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
A bats lynch doubles as being very scummy anyway and giving us a good idea where to go next, depending on how he flips. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On December 03 2014 22:43 Breshke wrote: HTS explain what you mean that it will reveal all about oats?? Bats' alignment, once he goes, will reveal the motives behind Oats' trying to steer us away from him. Why any player - especially a veteran, should advocate a lurker over Bats is beyond me when loads of evidence is currently pointing to Bats across the entire game. And with this few people left in the game, there's less room to hide for the scum. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
You guys are giving him a free pass for lurking? No town lurks this hard when they are almost gonna lose the game. scum does though, because apparently nobody wants to lynch him for it. I really cant believe that you guys dont think lurking is a legitimate scumtell. This late in the game, it is. On December 02 2014 11:25 Hopeless1der wrote: meatpudding dies today. In the meantime I want someone (not sicklucker) to comment on the following: Series of damdred related quotes from sicklucker: + Show Spoiler + On November 26 2014 09:10 sicklucker wrote: Damdred I think what ive seen is scum. I found it super weird how he never asked breske one question but he asked me 15 of the same question. I dont want to push him yet because I think I can soulread him as I have in a current game I cant talk about. Bresk individuality I dont have much but he hasint been around. I just put him in that longshot scum team from their really weird day 1 interactions together. On November 26 2014 10:13 sicklucker wrote: Well Ill take my town read away I thought he was a new player but I did like him calling out damdred. On November 27 2014 04:41 sicklucker wrote: Ya dont vote slam. Hes been pretty inactive in the other game too. Ill be able to read him well after mafia reading him so easy I think. same with damdred. They will also be great town assets if they are. On November 27 2014 04:45 sicklucker wrote: if we have a cop or tracker check damdred. Dont check me ill be oozing town soon. On November 27 2014 05:40 sicklucker wrote: Damdred I just think you played a very scared cautious mafia game before but that has yet to be confirmed. Once you come out with this im very happy to join in on your horse. On November 27 2014 06:11 sicklucker wrote: Kinda ya Im skeptical of damdred but his posts were enough for me to join in. rsoultin is not he joined after On November 27 2014 08:16 sicklucker wrote: Damdred im not even pushing you and your so defensive? what gives? On November 28 2014 16:27 sicklucker wrote: Damdreds been super defensive. I talked alot early about how im going to soul read him and hes put alot of effort into making me look bad. As it is now hes gotta die at some point things can change. I would rather solve the bats mystery first. On November 30 2014 07:36 sicklucker wrote: Ah shit I missed the vote im so bad. Catching up did we rly vote out one of my top towns Once again, sicklucker was on Damdred's team in his previous game. He was not reading him, but he claims to have developed the innate ability to read damdred (and slam) since he just played with them together as scum. How does that claim not bother anyone? How does that even make sense? I do not like the way that his read on damdred develops. I do not like the way that he tries to take credit for damdred being nked. His story changes constantly and he is being townread for being insane. Then he tries to push sicklucker by referencing his read on damdred? His points are not even legitimate. This reads so much like hopeless trying to create a lynch outta nothing. And for him to be actually doing stuff so he has some content. It sucks. LYNCH HOPELESS. | ||
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sicklucker
Canada16987 Posts
Hopeless Meat Is mine too. And I feel like this is auto. Mafia feel free to surrender dont think were ever changing are minds | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
Bats ->scum Oats Hopeless Bats ->town Hopeless Meat Because I'm paranoid. Or it's a gut feeling. Whatever you prefer. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
On December 03 2014 23:03 sicklucker wrote: Bats Hopeless Meat Is mine too. And I feel like this is auto. Mafia feel free to surrender dont think were ever changing are minds come on man, thats super bm. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
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