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Campus Mafia (New/Newish Players Welcome) - Page 180

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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ObiWanShinobi
Profile Joined April 2014
United States8089 Posts
November 23 2014 03:02 GMT
#3581
That's what I was expecting, tbh. I'm not sure how things would have played out though, since I wasn't sure how I'd be able to get out of it.

I was even universally scumread in the obs QT. I have no idea what KSC was thinking with his claim, but it was bad.
Retired.
Superbia
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Netherlands8889 Posts
November 23 2014 03:08 GMT
#3582
It was fine until he kept it up for like 20m and only rescinded 6m before deadline. Like there was no progression in pressure anymore at a certain point, and he should've just rescinded the counterclaim when it became obvious LS wasn't ever going to rescind the claim. Honestly didn't think the play itself was that bad, but he should've rescinded way before deadline.

Also I felt like you would've figured out the game in final 3 and possibly convinced whomever I left alive.
Minimal effort.
Superbia
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Netherlands8889 Posts
November 23 2014 03:09 GMT
#3583
Actually I think it was more like an hour+.
Minimal effort.
sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
November 23 2014 03:44 GMT
#3584
On November 23 2014 11:48 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
A well deserved win by mafia.

Why did I get shot before lylo? Idgi.


Rly? I told you final 3 of me and serejai= mafia win thats why I didnt want to sleep
Breshke
Profile Joined July 2014
Australia3749 Posts
November 23 2014 03:50 GMT
#3585
On November 23 2014 12:44 sicklucker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2014 11:48 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
A well deserved win by mafia.

Why did I get shot before lylo? Idgi.


Rly? I told you final 3 of me and serejai= mafia win thats why I didnt want to sleep


Not if you had tried to find mafia and not tried to not get lynched. In one of your posts you said you thought superbia was mafia but then you voted serejai. Why not try convince serejai that superbia was mafia then it would be her fault not yours. I'm not blaming you but im just saying dont blame the fact that we slept. it removed Obi who was a question mark i still think it was the right play.
sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
November 23 2014 03:56 GMT
#3586
On November 23 2014 12:50 Breshke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2014 12:44 sicklucker wrote:
On November 23 2014 11:48 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
A well deserved win by mafia.

Why did I get shot before lylo? Idgi.


Rly? I told you final 3 of me and serejai= mafia win thats why I didnt want to sleep


Not if you had tried to find mafia and not tried to not get lynched. In one of your posts you said you thought superbia was mafia but then you voted serejai. Why not try convince serejai that superbia was mafia then it would be her fault not yours. I'm not blaming you but im just saying dont blame the fact that we slept. it removed Obi who was a question mark i still think it was the right play.


I did try and she completely shut me down which tells me im right weve already talked about this tho and it was 100% the wrong play
sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
November 23 2014 03:58 GMT
#3587
On the last day serejai was only around posting for 3 hours thats not enough time to flip someone whos been game scum reading you.
ObiWanShinobi
Profile Joined April 2014
United States8089 Posts
November 23 2014 03:59 GMT
#3588
On November 23 2014 12:44 sicklucker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2014 11:48 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
A well deserved win by mafia.

Why did I get shot before lylo? Idgi.


Rly? I told you final 3 of me and serejai= mafia win thats why I didnt want to sleep


The alternative was lynching me, who was also town.

Please stop talking about the plays you could have made and talk about what you could have done to avoid being lynched/voted by Serejai. The sleep thing is completely overplayed at this point and it really doesn't seem like you understand what happened at all.
Retired.
sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
November 23 2014 04:04 GMT
#3589
No what we needed to do was 2-2 vote out super in the final four that was the only play. No I didnt know it was super at the time but I knew we had to make are choice then because if it was you or super it was autowin.
ObiWanShinobi
Profile Joined April 2014
United States8089 Posts
November 23 2014 04:05 GMT
#3590
No it wasn't. We lost either way because you were fixated on sleep. You never even considered Super until after the day ended.
Retired.
sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
November 23 2014 04:06 GMT
#3591
I Honestly if you agreed to sleep I woulda knew you were town and agreed to vote out super.
sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
November 23 2014 04:07 GMT
#3592
remember when super agreed to side with me and I said it was a trap. It really was and he outplayed you . welplayed
sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
November 23 2014 04:08 GMT
#3593
wellplayed super * not bashing you it was a hard spot
GlowingBear
Profile Joined May 2014
Brazil12446 Posts
November 23 2014 04:08 GMT
#3594
Jesus man. Everyone is telling you that you were not having the correct play, and you're trying to justify it. Get over it, assume it was wrong and try to understand what you could do better.
I'm adorable.
Elvis!
Profile Joined April 2012
Germany396 Posts
November 23 2014 04:13 GMT
#3595
I'm not even being salty.
I just advise you to be less confusing as a town and to stop trying to confirm yourself through theories "why you can't be scum" instead of hunting scum. After like 5 people told you so you might wanna believe this to be true. Same thing about the sleeping.
Do you not see how many people you got to think you were scum and how many people were confused about your actions?
You're a new guy to this game just like me, just take advice from others, experience is the key to this game, not being right at all times. ffs.
other people turn around and laugh at you - if you say - that these are the best days - of their lives. - Blur
sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
November 23 2014 04:46 GMT
#3596
On November 23 2014 13:08 GlowingBear wrote:
Jesus man. Everyone is telling you that you were not having the correct play, and you're trying to justify it. Get over it, assume it was wrong and try to understand what you could do better.


I still disagree sue me. Everyone who told me is also kinda pissed at me and i am trying to lync you ;p. Im only talking about the sleeping part which Ive given many reasons why its mathematically correct from my pov
Breshke
Profile Joined July 2014
Australia3749 Posts
November 23 2014 05:43 GMT
#3597
But why should anyone care about your POV or maths more than finding the mafia. For everyone else it removed a question mark from the game, you were so certain serejai was going to vote you but i cant remember you coming to any conclusions about it. Now im new and also shit so i don't even try to pretend to know what im doing but i think you need to focus more on who is mafia not on how to avoid an auto lose position. The fact of the matter is you couldn't convince anyone nor did you really try to so why should have anyone voted for anything other than no lynch.

I'm not blaming you sicklucker im not blaming anyone lots of people fucked up this game myself included I lynched the cop among other things but you need to realize how even if YOU don't think its the wrong play everyone else did so next time you need to have a different approach else it will just happen again.
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25563 Posts
November 23 2014 06:19 GMT
#3598
whenever you're trying to assign blame to a lynch, read this post first:

On August 18 2011 19:43 Palmar wrote:
Mig got it.

I don't know what you're saying GM, I'm not even sure which part you're disagreeing with. I'm not saying there is no such thing as bad logic, what I'm saying is that if town is accepting bad logic over good logic, it's your responsibility to use bad logic so you can push your ideas.

I don't think your comparison to starcraft is fair, because starcraft has measurable statistics that can blatantly be improved upon. In mafia there really is no such thing as definite bad play and good play. My point is that the problem is the people who get themselves lynched.

Let's create an example:

+ Show Spoiler +


You're in a game with 7 players, two of them are mafia. It's day 1, and town lynches some vocal but controversial player (Palmar) who flipped, quite predictably to GMarshal the town hero, town.

The lynch was mostly based on the fact that one of the townies (Jackal) suggested that Palmar may have been trying to hard to be pro-town, and must therefore be scum, so one of the mafia (Sandroba) and the rest of town (Curu and Deconduo) quietly agreed with the lynch based on Jackal's logic. Sandroba pushes the idea a bit to help secure Deconduo's vote.

GMarshal had meanwhile nailed the one mafia (sandroba) contradicting himself and being overly cautious given his usual aggressive nature on day one, in addition, it's against Sandroba's usually critical behavior to agree with such an obvious townie lynch as Palmar.

GMarshal wrote an analysis on Sandroba, but town mostly ignored him, although Palmar was never going to agree with a lynch on himself and shouted quite heavily for people to read GM's analysis, and cast his vote on Sandroba. In addition, the clever lurking mafia Kenpachi also voted for his scumbuddy Sandroba.

So in the end, Palmar gets lynched based on jackal's accusation he was trying too hard to be pro-town, and the votes end as follows:

Palmar: 4

Deconduo
Curu
Jackal
Sandroba

Sandroba: 3

GMarshal
Palmar
Kenpachi

And Palmar get's lynched.



So reading the above example, let's look at what usually people perceive happened in this game, and what really needs to be looked at, here is what I think is both an incorrect, and a correct analysis of day 1, and who is to blame.

+ Show Spoiler +


So, in this situation it's typical for Palmar to call the town terrible for not listening to logic and lynching Sandroba. GMarshal who will obviously get shot during the night is just going to rage a bit about people for not picking up on his logic.

In addition, when Kenpachi cleverly instantly buses Sandroba on day 2 for massive town cred, and a guaranteed victory in lylo, GMarshal is going to feel really justified when Sandroba lynches scum.

"Only if you had listened to me on day 1"

And the worst part, the player more responsible than anyone else for the town losing, Palmar, is going to come back in the postgame and call Jackal an idiot for pushing the lynch on him. Jackal will of course be hanged on day 3, after mafia kills deconduo, and Kenpachi and Curu are the last 2 standing, resulting in a mafia victory.

Very often this will result in Palmar and GMarshal somehow feeling they played okay, but the town was just bad so they lost beacuse of that.

This is wrong

Both are terrible, and need to shut up and look at their own play.

GMarshal looked pro-town on day 1, no one talked about lynching him, and he instantly nailed mafia with a good analysis.

GMarshal played terribly.

I don't give a fuck what you know if you can't convince town to follow your logic. If what it takes was using some retarded logic like Jackal's "Palmar is trying too hard to be pro-town", to get the lynch, that's what GMarshal should have done.

Now, I'm not saying Curu's, Jackal's and Deconduo's play is excusable, because they're also bad for not seeing that GMarshal was pushing a correct analysis. But there seems to be this thing around here where we focus way too much on blaming the people who make the incorrect decisions, and far too little blame on people who make the right decisions, but cannot push them.

Everyone played terribly on day 1. And the worst fucker of them all?

Palmar.

Palmar is ridiculously bad this game. He allowed himself to get lynched by another townie on shitty reasoning. Thing is, after the game, Palmar won't recognize this, he'll be mad at the "bad town" who lynched him with such "obvious scum" alternative.

But the truth of the matter, Palmar just failed at making people realize he's town. I don't give a shit how stupid the reasons where, if that's what it takes, Palmar should've made up some terrible reasons to clear himself.

If you get lynched, it's your own fault.

Notice that I'm not trying to reduce the blame on the town heroes who lynched an obvious town on bad logic on day 1. I'm just pointing out that peopel who were right like GMarshal, are equally much to blame for being unable to push their ideas, and the person who gets lynched is the most to blame.



When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
ObiWanShinobi
Profile Joined April 2014
United States8089 Posts
November 23 2014 06:28 GMT
#3599
That's a really brutal post.

I'm loving the whole bit about the "bad logic" part though. That's something I've never thought about.
Retired.
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25563 Posts
November 23 2014 06:42 GMT
#3600
I feel bad whenever I mislynch someone OR get mislynched. As a player, I might mislynch a guy who's acting silly or something, and claim it was "optimal" to lynch him, but in reality it's optimal to only lynch scum. It's all our responsibilities to do our best when we're town, and remember, with great shared responsibility comes great shared blame.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
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