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This game is soooo close to being full.
Yet so far away... 
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This is the most civil start I've seen in quite a while lol.
Hi all 
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On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.
I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.
What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay?
This post has no substance. And why would you talk down to bunny about him having limited information? Do you have less limited information?
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On June 16 2014 10:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 09:50 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I don't like that he wants to ignore me completely. And that he has to immediately come out and say he is vt. Kenpachi Rule ##vote 27ninjabunnies
Kenpachi rule?
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On June 16 2014 10:21 27ninjabunnies wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 10:16 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 10:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 09:50 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I don't like that he wants to ignore me completely. And that he has to immediately come out and say he is vt. On June 16 2014 09:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
So ##Vote: YKZ Kenpachi Rule ##vote 27ninjabunnies Kenpachi rule? So rumor has it, There is a guy, called Kenpachi, and at the game start, he says "hi, i am Kenpachi and i am a townie." The first guy casting doubt on that dude is always scum, that's the "Kenpachi rule" It's a stupid rule, and has no basis to why I am reading YKZ as scum.
On June 16 2014 10:27 YouKnowZhou wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 10:16 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 10:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 09:50 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I don't like that he wants to ignore me completely. And that he has to immediately come out and say he is vt. On June 16 2014 09:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
So ##Vote: YKZ Kenpachi Rule ##vote 27ninjabunnies Kenpachi rule? The Kenpachi rule, named after its author Kenpachi, is a TL adage reflecting the idea that without a clear and better motivation for a vote, it is almost certainly a scumtell when a player votes a player who claimed VT at the start of the game. Kenpachi's rule, in broader form, is: Without a blantant display of humor, a vote on a vt claim comes almost always from a scum player. The core of Kenpachi rule is that a vt claim by its nature is not suspicious to a town player, who isn't hunting for blues. Without a clear motivation for a vt claim, it looks odd to scum, who want to attack someone safely. A corollary of the Kenpachi rule is the reverse phenomenon: the first vt claim is almost always sincere.
These definitions don't exactly match up...
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On June 16 2014 10:36 YouKnowZhou wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 10:33 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 10:21 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 10:16 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 10:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 09:50 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I don't like that he wants to ignore me completely. And that he has to immediately come out and say he is vt. On June 16 2014 09:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
So ##Vote: YKZ Kenpachi Rule ##vote 27ninjabunnies Kenpachi rule? So rumor has it, There is a guy, called Kenpachi, and at the game start, he says "hi, i am Kenpachi and i am a townie." The first guy casting doubt on that dude is always scum, that's the "Kenpachi rule" It's a stupid rule, and has no basis to why I am reading YKZ as scum. On June 16 2014 10:27 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 10:16 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 10:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 09:50 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I don't like that he wants to ignore me completely. And that he has to immediately come out and say he is vt. On June 16 2014 09:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
So ##Vote: YKZ Kenpachi Rule ##vote 27ninjabunnies Kenpachi rule? The Kenpachi rule, named after its author Kenpachi, is a TL adage reflecting the idea that without a clear and better motivation for a vote, it is almost certainly a scumtell when a player votes a player who claimed VT at the start of the game. Kenpachi's rule, in broader form, is: Without a blantant display of humor, a vote on a vt claim comes almost always from a scum player. The core of Kenpachi rule is that a vt claim by its nature is not suspicious to a town player, who isn't hunting for blues. Without a clear motivation for a vt claim, it looks odd to scum, who want to attack someone safely. A corollary of the Kenpachi rule is the reverse phenomenon: the first vt claim is almost always sincere. These definitions don't exactly match up... You can search it on TL for urself, but it's not about claiming townie, as 27ninjabunnies asserts. The rule is about claiming vanilla townie. Basicly, scum want to jump on something, and a VT claim looks basicly not intresting to a townie who isn't hunting for blues. It looks unique though to someone who is hunting for blues: scum.
But knowing all of this, couldn't you say you're VT regardless of alignment, bait someone's suspicion and then claim Kenpachi rule?
I'm having trouble understanding why at the very start of the game scum would be more prone to jumping on something that looks scummy. I mean if scum's job is to blend in, why be the first to vote and make a case? There's always scrutiny that comes with doing so...
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Also, your posts are giving me BH vibes.
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On June 16 2014 11:13 YouKnowZhou wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 11:09 27ninjabunnies wrote:
i wouldnt speculate whether or not he is blue right now. You wouldnt speculate bcuz you think i am scum. Unless of cours u kno i am not scum. So I caught u in scum slip.
This reminds me of something you once said in Les Mafia:
On May 22 2013 15:51 Blazinghand wrote:
DP, you're not bad, you're just wrong about scumslips. When I flip town, promise me this: for the next full game played, any time you mention scumslips you will say "I was wrong, BH was right, there is no such thing as a scumslip"
Did something change?
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On June 16 2014 14:42 VisceraEyes wrote:So while I may or may not share the opinion that "The Kenpachi Rule" actually works or whatever, it's pretty much scientifically proven that you cannot discover the alignment of a player based on whether he is properly applying the tenets of the rule or not. That he's spoken at all makes me not want to lynch YKZ, and I think that bunnies is like supertown based on what she's saying and how she's arguing. I'm more interested in lynching people like BH sitting back and tossing in occasional kindling like the following Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 11:12 Blazinghand wrote:On June 16 2014 11:09 27ninjabunnies wrote:
i wouldnt speculate whether or not he is blue right now. You wouldnt speculate bcuz you think i am scum. Unless of cours u kno i am not scum. So I caught u in scum slip. and are content to sit back and watch it all burn.
FYI: YKZ and BH are the same guy.
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On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so?
I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014:
"As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies."
And yet he ends this same post:
"I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ."
Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post.
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On June 17 2014 02:38 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I'm sorry, how is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He hasn't rehashed anything, it's original content and wordiness is alignment null. Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? Hmm? How does it make him scum? Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 22:45 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014: "As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies." And yet he ends this same post: "I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ." Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post. Where's the inconsistency? Leaning may not be indicative of degree of conviction, but merely the direction of it. Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 01:45 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 22:45 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014: "As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies." And yet he ends this same post: "I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ." Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post. You have a point here I really like. Which makes me wonder if scum defending a town here. He's not even considering in what YKZ could or could not do. But then if that's the case, and Release is scum, then YKZ is town, and I don't like that. I really really want to be right that YKZ is scum. You are starting to make associations here and I don't think that's a good idea. Focus on them as individuals.
I'm not really sure what else to say here except that there's a large variance of degrees. How I see it, you have release saying "I'm leaning YKZ scum" on first quote and saying "I am unequivocally convinced YKZ is scum" on second one. Release has since posted something in disagreement, but this is what I see when looking at that post. What's more, when would town ever say "...what needs to be said to incriminate..."? That's some super-scummy wording. Town looks to determine who's scum, not to make someone look like scum.
Further, when thinking back on my own games the way Release has posted is almost exactly how I handled my first mafia game. I posted a huge case on an easy target then AFK'ed, only posting when I felt I had to. Looking at a few of his past games (when he was town), he had a much easier to follow flow with his posts. Every post in this game feels very calculated, and given how I personally liked to post in previous games as scum, it's easy for me to see how as an insecure newbie scum he would feel inclined to stack as much together as he could into a few very carefully planted posts.
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I know BH can get busy etc., but given that he has literally done nothing but tunnel one player at this point using a rather baseless argument, I believe he's playing more to his scumgame than his towngame. As such, he earns my vote.:
##Vote: YouKnowZhou
YouKnowZhou doesn't seem very interested in figuring out other players, YouKnowZhou doesn't seem to care about literally anything but jumping at ninja repeatedly with the same argument, YouKnowZhou is scum by his own argument.:
On June 17 2014 03:22 YouKnowZhou wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 03:13 slOosh wrote:Hmm, not quite feeling the flaming spears of logic and justice yet. On June 16 2014 12:46 slOosh wrote:
I can see a somewhat reasonable case to be made that bunnies is not a stellar townie, but I don't see the case being made that she must be scum. Why isn't she "bad" town? I think my most recent post demonstrates that 27nb's attention is drawn towards statements about her, rather than incriminating things I say-- even a bad townie would naturally respond to me saying things like "I lied to decieve town because I thought I could get away with it", whereas scum regardless of badness would naturally respond to me saying kenpachi rule but NOT respond to additional evidence. It's not a matter of skill, it's a matter of mindset. A townie, even a new townie (I remember being one), when thyey have a scumread on someone and that person does something really scummy, they RESPOND to it. they add it to their case. It's the natural thought process of a town player REGARDLESS of skill. 27nb is not showing this natural thought process. Look at her responses to my posts. Is she responding to things I say that are scummy or inconsistent and pointing out their inconsistency? Or is she just shouting about my first post whenever she gets the chance, and not actually trying to convince people to lynch me based on new evidence that emerges? A townie who was really tunnelled on me would LOVE to point out new scummy things I say, because he's still trying to formulate and develop a case. 27nb is always talking about me, sure, but look at WHAT she's responding to. Not the stuff a townie would.
In short, YKZ holds ninja to be scum because ninja didn't evolve her case, while YKZ really hasn't evolved his... It's still about Kenpachi rule, and he holds ninja to a different standard than he is holding himself. A standard which makes her scum while he somehow is not...
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On June 17 2014 07:29 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 04:46 slOosh wrote:Yea I so I think Artanis is scum. On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release Here is his first post, top of page 8. There are many unnatural things about this post. First is his complaining tone. We are only 5 pages in, and yet he calls it all "bullshit". It's totally out of place and unnatural. Then he moves away from it and blames Release. Two things here. One is that he does nothing to either comment on, or figure out said "bullshit". No reads or questions on either YKZ / 27nb. Nothing to try to figure either one out. Just a straight up dismissal of the whole thing, and moving on to someone else. Next is how he blames Release for it all. When I press him on this issue: On June 17 2014 03:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 17 2014 02:38 slOosh wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I'm sorry, how is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He hasn't rehashed anything, it's original content and wordiness is alignment null. Release made a giant post about stuff that was really boring so I didn't get very far in it. The first part is definitely rehash. You're right in that he did add some original content afterwards though. Wordiness being alignment null is debatable but that debate wouldn't go anywhere so let's agree to disagree on that. Nothing but fluff. He doesn't offer any meaningful reason why Release is scum. Look at the backpedaling. "oh yea I guess he added content. I could argue that wordiness isn't alignment null but I won't". He doesn't really care to convince me or others why he finds Release scum. He just wants to put his vote somewhere to look like he is contributing. He dodges the question the first time around so I ask him again: On June 17 2014 03:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 17 2014 03:17 slOosh wrote:On June 17 2014 03:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 17 2014 02:38 slOosh wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I'm sorry, how is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He hasn't rehashed anything, it's original content and wordiness is alignment null. Release made a giant post about stuff that was really boring so I didn't get very far in it. The first part is definitely rehash. You're right in that he did add some original content afterwards though. Wordiness being alignment null is debatable but that debate wouldn't go anywhere so let's agree to disagree on that. How is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He's the perpetrator of the conversation continuing about that specific topic. Ridiculous. Release is trying to make sense of the debacle, and Artanis is overexaggerating, blaming him for "perpetrating" this "bullshit", while making no effort to either figure out the YKZ / bunnies thing himself, nor make clear how Release is scum for it. Just vague handwaving and avoiding the biggest discussion topic at the time. Artanis is unnatural, Artanis is apathetic, Artanis is scum. ##Vote Artanis[Xp] I think this post makes slOosh scum. DETAILS AT ELEVEN!!!
Promises were made. Promises better be delivered. I'll be waiting.
Imho, sloosh is the only one in thread who has really made a concerted effort to push things forward. I would be really surprised if he was scum when he could easily lurk around in an environment such as this one where apparently no one likes to post all that much.
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On June 17 2014 14:22 Snickers wrote:
I think i have been posting a lot.
I am also surprised you chose to vote YKZ rather than Release. Your two posts prior to your vote posts were leaning towards him. Is it normal in mafia games for the votes to be spread like this?
Barring that someone jumps up and down screaming he/she's scum, yes there's generally some degree of vote distribution. And that's where consolidating becomes key to help prevent the sway of scum influence on the vote and produce as much information as possible. And while I, and I am sure several others here, are more than happy to answer questions such as this one they're better suited for asking a coach in a newbie game. Here, they're just going to distract from whatever you have to say and fluff your filter, so I would urge you to use them sparingly and only when you absolutely need to know something you can't find out from somewhere like mafiascum.net wiki.
I do believe that there's a decent chance Release could be scum. However, unlike YKZ he's willing to come in and answer questions. He's continuing to post and and YKZ is not. It doesn't sit very well with me seeing him voting for the same guy I am, but association based deductions day one is not something I can realistically do. Independent of everything else YKZ is looking scummier to me right now than Release. Therefore he gets my vote.
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On June 17 2014 14:41 YouKnowZhou wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 14:15 goodkarma wrote:I know BH can get busy etc., but given that he has literally done nothing but tunnel one player at this point using a rather baseless argument, I believe he's playing more to his scumgame than his towngame. As such, he earns my vote.: ##Vote: YouKnowZhouYouKnowZhou doesn't seem very interested in figuring out other players, YouKnowZhou doesn't seem to care about literally anything but jumping at ninja repeatedly with the same argument, YouKnowZhou is scum by his own argument.: On June 17 2014 03:22 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 17 2014 03:13 slOosh wrote:Hmm, not quite feeling the flaming spears of logic and justice yet. On June 16 2014 12:46 slOosh wrote:
I can see a somewhat reasonable case to be made that bunnies is not a stellar townie, but I don't see the case being made that she must be scum. Why isn't she "bad" town? I think my most recent post demonstrates that 27nb's attention is drawn towards statements about her, rather than incriminating things I say-- even a bad townie would naturally respond to me saying things like "I lied to decieve town because I thought I could get away with it", whereas scum regardless of badness would naturally respond to me saying kenpachi rule but NOT respond to additional evidence. It's not a matter of skill, it's a matter of mindset. A townie, even a new townie (I remember being one), when thyey have a scumread on someone and that person does something really scummy, they RESPOND to it. they add it to their case. It's the natural thought process of a town player REGARDLESS of skill. 27nb is not showing this natural thought process. Look at her responses to my posts. Is she responding to things I say that are scummy or inconsistent and pointing out their inconsistency? Or is she just shouting about my first post whenever she gets the chance, and not actually trying to convince people to lynch me based on new evidence that emerges? A townie who was really tunnelled on me would LOVE to point out new scummy things I say, because he's still trying to formulate and develop a case. 27nb is always talking about me, sure, but look at WHAT she's responding to. Not the stuff a townie would. In short, YKZ holds ninja to be scum because ninja didn't evolve her case, while YKZ really hasn't evolved his... It's still about Kenpachi rule, and he holds ninja to a different standard than he is holding himself. A standard which makes her scum while he somehow is not... First off Kenpachi rule clearly doesn't apply to me since 27nb hasn't claimed VT and Kenpachi Rule Extended doesn't apply either since I've addressed her continuing filter (and her continuing non-addressal of my filter). Secondly I tunnel who I want, when I want, and there's nothing you or anyone else can do to stop my tunnelling. Stop your so-called "thought process" for a moment here and think about this possibility: 27nb is scum. Why would I devote my time to all you guys silly cases on people like artanis or Release-- oh wait, I already did that, and pointed out my reads, and hey, looks like 27nb is STILL SCUM. I'd like you to take a moment to contemplate what you're saying here. You're saying that I, YKZ (supposedly Blazinghand) am tunnelling someone, and that the fact that I'm monomaniacally focused on my target indicates that I am... wait for it... scum? ._. You forget the real situation, which is that I'm monomaniacally focused on my target because my target is in fact scum.. Put yourself in my shoes. You have caught scum. Who are you gonna vote? Are you gonna vote, push on, and develop your case on scum? Or are you gonna do something useless and awful? Well, many people call me useless and awful, but I'm not. Instead of being useless and awful, I'm voting 27nb and have shown that 27nb's continued mindset was in fact indicative of a scum alignment. So... I'm still voting 27nb. Would you look at that, my logic makes sense, unlike the logic of, say, illogical people. Now, you are a logical person, GK. I know this because you and me, we're like *this* (makes gesture). So as a logical person, I want you to take a look at how I play as scum (you've known my scum play well) and how I play as town, and realize that the logical side is my side. I will say that I still have to digest 27nb's back-off in response to the lynch on her getting traction. It seems like such an obviously scummy move that it almost falls into "too scummy to be scum" territory, though of course such territory is meaningless anyways. I can't get why she'd do this as scum, except of course to make me think that thought. I'll sleep on it, I suppose.
So you're saying now that Kenpachi rule doesn't apply?
I certainly would love to see a case writeup by you showing all the other scummy stuff you've seen ninja say/do because thus far I'm either missing something in your filter, or it just isn't really there. I get you have this argument that ninja is only interested in herself, and should have jumped you for stuff like lying etc. etc. I just don't get how this applies to her being sure scum. Like you must have claimed VT with this kind of Kenpachi trap in mind, and then you say ridiculous stuff with another outcome in mind. I just can't fathom how every townie expected to act a certain way, while scum another, when dealing with these "traps." It just doesn't make sense to me.
In all fairness I missed your discussion of release as in my mind it was a bit of a footnote when talking about your undying desire to see ninja lynched. And while what you say about him possibly making a case about you regardless of alignment is valid, the manner in which he does it and carries himself I believe deserves more attention. And the Artanis comment I suppose is an opinion, but one I'd argue doesn't really say much about his alignment.
As town I suppose I would have expected you'd push ninja from more vantage points and try super-hard to get everyone on board. Like scream at them and stuff like you do from time to time. It's felt more like you're in a two-way conversation with ninja no one else is invited to to shit up the thread.
And perhaps I'm totes off-base. Tbh, another reason for my vote was pressure as I know if you are town you will do a respectable job of showing it.
I would also be very much so interested in hearing a little more from you about release. The guy wrote an ESSAY about you, and while some of the content isn't a total rehash of what others have said or a summary, I believe his posting style is substantially off from his prior towngames. And it's not like he's been eager to engage in conversation with you or investigate or get others to side with him. And yet he's just very much so convinced you're scum...
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On June 17 2014 14:48 YouKnowZhou wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 14:42 goodkarma wrote:On June 17 2014 14:22 Snickers wrote:
I think i have been posting a lot.
I am also surprised you chose to vote YKZ rather than Release. Your two posts prior to your vote posts were leaning towards him. Is it normal in mafia games for the votes to be spread like this? Barring that someone jumps up and down screaming he/she's scum, yes there's generally some degree of vote distribution. And that's where consolidating becomes key to help prevent the sway of scum influence on the vote and produce as much information as possible. And while I, and I am sure several others here, are more than happy to answer questions such as this one they're better suited for asking a coach in a newbie game. Here, they're just going to distract from whatever you have to say and fluff your filter, so I would urge you to use them sparingly and only when you absolutely need to know something you can't find out from somewhere like mafiascum.net wiki. I do believe that there's a decent chance Release could be scum. However, unlike YKZ he's willing to come in and answer questions. He's continuing to post and and YKZ is not. It doesn't sit very well with me seeing him voting for the same guy I am, but association based deductions day one is not something I can realistically do. Independent of everything else YKZ is looking scummier to me right now than Release. Therefore he gets my vote. wtf, I answer like every question, even the "million dollar question" Probably like at least 10% of my freaking filter is dealing with the inane questions of hopeless proles who are begging for my time. believe it or not, GK, I was not placed into this game to serve you. I am not a servant. I am not a slave. I am not an indentured servant who is working off the debt he accrued paying for his passage to the "new world". No, I'm Blazinghand, the best player on TL Mafia, Claimer Extraordinary and Intelligent, He Who Doesn't Always Make Cases, But When He Does He Doesn't, The Catcher of the Three, The RNG Lyncher of Odin. Can you mess with those titles? You can't, that's right. So if you want me to answer your alleged "questions" or respond to your so-called "posts" you'll need to do better than that. Actually, I guess you wouldn't need to do better than this post, since I am in fact responding to it, but you get the idea. I've written the best, most coherent case in this entire thread. There are nations that bow down before me (metaphorically speaking) because of the amazing case I've written on 27nb. In fact, GK, why aren't you answering my questions, huh? Oh, that's right, I guess I didn't ask any. Well, fair enough, you win this round. But the point I'm getting at is: My filter stands for itself and my positions stand for themselves. 27nb has done nothing, I repeat, nothing to make me think that she is town this game, except maybe back off of me in a weird way. As far as I can see, I see no reason not to lynch her, and as far as I can see, I don't see why you don't see a reason not to lynch her.
That quote was posted at the exact same time as your response. You just responded to some of what I've just posted here, here, but what I just wrote is my reply.
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On June 17 2014 15:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
itt BH appeals to authority while smurfing. And he ISN'T the leading lynch yet?
Where's that sloosh case you promised dood?
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On June 17 2014 16:05 YouKnowZhou wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 15:42 goodkarma wrote:
And the Artanis comment I suppose is an opinion, but one I'd argue doesn't really say much about his alignment.
you could argue that, but you would be wrong. Also, you want to unvote me, trust me. Just gimme a day and I'll fulfill all your wildest dreams good night sweet prince
Fine. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, unvote you, and honor this Day 1 truce thing we always seem to do.
##Unvote: YouKnowZhou
On June 17 2014 16:07 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 09:11 mderg wrote:I almost forgot about this due to the world cup The whole thing with YKZ and bunnies is really strange. It feels like they´re both wrong, bunnies more so thab YKZ, though. I don´t think bunnies case was well substantiated at all, scumslips just almost never happen in forum mafia. I also don´t think the Kenpachi rule is as foolproof as YKZ said. It has some solid reasoning behind it but claiming that it always works seems stupid. They´ve kinda been repeating themselves quite often, so there´s not that much to get from this. I think YKZ is town because of the follow up on bunnies On June 16 2014 12:30 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:16 slOosh wrote:
Alright, let's cut it out with the "Kenpachi Rule" and associated nomenclature. It isn't immediately clear to everyone and is muddling up the discussion.
Let's get this straight.
Bunnies, you think YKZ is scum because of the phrase "limited information"? His post paraphrased as "I'm not listening to you because you are town"?
YKZ, you think bunnies is scum for her initial call out of your post "I'm vt"?
Please try to be a bit more clear with your posts please. Look at all the scummy stuff I've posted since my original post. Any real townie would be all over me for things like "I'm allowed to lie" and my blanatant lying etc but all YKZ is on is my OG post because he is scum. Any real townie would be all up on dis, think about it I don´t think scum would so blatantly say that he acted scummy and someone should have pointed it out. This feels like a trap made by town. He´s also claimed vt early on which I find weird but unlikely to be scum play. So I think out of bunnies and YKZ only bunnies can really be scum. It certainly is possible. Especially the heavy focus on YKZ´s "scumslip" seems suspicious. Not calling out YKZ´s scummy posts is not really alignment indicative. Not immediately noticing things that might look scummy to some can happen as both alignments. I also dislike how she agrees with Artanis that Release is scummy but doesn´t think he´s scum because she wants to be right about YKZ and her association read. On June 17 2014 01:45 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 22:45 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014: "As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies." And yet he ends this same post: "I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ." Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post. You have a point here I really like. Which makes me wonder if scum defending a town here. He's not even considering in what YKZ could or could not do. But then if that's the case, and Release is scum, then YKZ is town, and I don't like that. I really really want to be right that YKZ is scum. It also feels like townreading Artanis is some kind of "You´re scumreading me, so I´ll townread you". I think Snickers has been posting strangely. As if he wanted to play the newbie card without stating that he´s new. His general thought process doesn´t show a scum mindset, though. I didn´t really like where he talked about associations between bunnies and VKZ. IMO pre-flip associations are bad most of the time. Release had a not so perfect entrance to this thread. At first glance his case on YKZ seemed good but it basically comes down to the few points bunnies has made on YKZ and that he stuck to the Kenpachi rule for so long. That´s not very much considering the length of his posts. What kinda speaks in his favor is how suddenly several people jumped on him after Artanis made his case on him. Still kinda neutral on him, maybe a bit scummy. I´m having a townread on sloosh right now. Mainly because his posting feels different from Detention where we were scum together. He´s asking questions and seems to be trying to get behind the reasons from the others. I think Artanis´case on Release made sense but slooshs case on him also made sense even though it´s not that strong. The fact that he almost completely ignored the back and forth between YKZ and bunnies is slightly suspicious. But it´s true that the back and forth was repetitive and I don´t think there was anything that´s really scummy in it. I agree with his reason for scumreading bunnies, it´s something I´m also sumreading her for. Slight townread on him. Not much on the others, yet. I´ll hopefully post more tomorrow. ##vote 27ninjabunnies gk what is your read on mderg? I think its weird how he has only posted one thing. He sorta offers an excuse for that. The thing i find most weird is "I'll hopefully post more tomorrow". ..... I do not think somebody that is town would say hopefully i will post more after posting one post.
Both town and scum can be lazy. Not really much else to say here... If he makes a habit of making excuses then yes, it's a scummy thing.
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On June 17 2014 21:42 mderg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 21:23 Lazermonkey wrote:On June 17 2014 20:42 mderg wrote:On June 17 2014 18:21 VisceraEyes wrote:So I wrote this big post about why I think slOosh is mafia because he thinks Artanis is mafia, but then as I started picking apart slOosh's reasoning I find that I'm really not so strongly feeling townie on Artanis, and that slOosh's reasoning is as bad as it was at first glance. So I removed the bit about Artanis and frankly it's not nearly as impressive. I've included it in a spoiler because I'm still tentatively scummy on slOosh, but the crux of my argument is garbage and the rest can possibly be just me misreading slOosh's intention or whatever. Would probably vote for slOosh if he said nothing more today, but right now I'm looking elsewhere because I don't really find my case super convincing myself. I maintain that he doesn't /feel/ town to me, but concede that it's quite possible that I'm just wrong here. + Show Spoiler +Why slOosh is Mafia Early on his play can be categorized as asking a lot of questions. A lot of questions. This is okay I guess, if you take his probing as a means to get reads on players. However, the problem I have is that all through his filter, ne'ry is there a read on anyone involved in the early game. He can be seen defending a couple of players...which I don't find to be particularly indicative either way, but it always seems to come with an out too so meh. Ultimately we've got: +- Asking a lot of early questions that don't seem to go anywhere. +- Defending players before they can defend themselves. - Never gives reads on players involved in early game, in spite of interacting with many of them through various questions. - In spite of posting a fair amount, doesn't feel town For now I want to hear what slOosh has to say before voting for him, but we'll call him my top scumread for the sake of argument. As for other players, as always I absolutely refuse to read BH this cycle. Chez seems to be Chez, which means he'll be alive until we lynch him regardless of his alignment. I'd like to see where this Artanis/slOosh stuff goes. I'm now kinda townreading Release now that he's proven a proclivity toward verbosity in all matters. mgerg is more guilty of rehashing than Release ever was, and in a way I find to be far more scummy. I think based on his (presumably only) D1 post that he's my favorite lynch today. I find his entire post to be wishywashy and diplomatic and scummy, and considering it may be all we get from him this cycle I'm fine with lynching him.##Vote: mderg That´s some solid reasoning there. At least be specific in some way. Right now your case on me is basically that my post feels kinda scummy. Also I can assure you that it´s not all you get from me this cycle. "You may theoretically not post any more in this cycle, so I´m fine lynching you". Like you´re not even interested in my play and just want me lynched for starting the game a bit late. Overall a really lazy vote on me without much to back it up. Wait a minute. If his case on you is that your posts feel kinda scummy then it makes perfect sense. If you agree with his reasoning, however, is another story. It would make sense to read someone as scum, if his posts feel scummy. But that´s not why you vote someone. The case sucks because it´s highly subjective and has no real substance. I think making a case just based on a post feeling scummy is terrible.
It is worth mentioning that a vote on you up until you suddenly came to life was a lurker vote. Like magic, a vote is cast on you and you come alive not to pursue any of your reads, but to defend yourself.
Would you mind clarifying your read on Release? This is the point you're most wishy-washy about in your opening post. Like apparently unflipped people piling on him gives you townie vibes, while a virtually nonexistent case made by Artansis makes you think he's looking scummy? And said nonexistent case is stronger than sloosh's case? Please do explain.
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EPT
