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Detention Mafia - Page 38

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Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-31 11:56:13
May 31 2014 11:55 GMT
#741
Vote count:


Meapak_Ziphh (3) - HaruRH, Palmar, mderg, SlOosh,
slOosh(4) - Amiko, Alakaslam, HaruRH, sqrtofneg1
Sqrtofneg1(1) - fuba

Not voting (3) : - 27ninjabunnies, Meapak_Ziphh, gobbledydook


Currently slOosh is set to be lynched!

Day ends in

PM me if you see a mistake! I did this on my phone.

I had a good night of sleep.
mderg
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany1740 Posts
May 31 2014 12:10 GMT
#742
I think sloosh´s first defense makes sense in theory but I think it looks kinda forced. I feel like if you want him to provide more content and proper reads, you can ask him questions about other people without pressuring too much. But almost ignoring feels like the wrong idea, if you want him to develop his own reads.
I wasn´t completely sold on his scumminess but this defense just doesn´t sound townie to me.
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 31 2014 01:00 slOosh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2014 13:06 Amiko wrote:
Okay, reading through filters, slOosh is my top scum right now and I want to lynch him.

There’s other things that I think support scumreading him, but I think this is the best point so I want to start here and build.

I think the central point is: After voting jabber, slOosh does nothing to develop his feelings on jabber. He doesn't try to get explanations from jabber or even follow up after jabber's responses

This is the post where slOosh joins the vote for jabber.
On May 28 2014 02:09 slOosh wrote:
Seems straightforward.

##Vote: jabberwockzerg

Initially, this is worrisome because slOosh is joining the wagon in a noncommittal way. He isn’t stating what he agrees or disagrees with. This is a “+1” post. This is potentially scummy because it’s bandwagoning without commitment. But the remainder of the day is what turns from suspicious to scummy.

After his vote, slOosh does almost nothing on the lynch on jabber. So, take a look at other players’ actions D1. Other players question jabber – they are not sure on the lynch, so they want to get more information or talk about the issue more with other players.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
slOosh's D1 is different from almost every other player D1 because of his lack of interaction or followup on slOosh

I went through every players' filter and I think almost all of them (maybe not Slam) support my read on slOosh as uninterested in the jabber lynch. This is a little long so I'll put it in a spoiler, but I really invite you to read through it.

+ Show Spoiler +

27Ninjabunnies:
Many tons of interaction with jabber after she votes on him.
+ Show Spoiler +

GOSH THERE ARE SO MANY EXAMPLES. Here’s just a few – even after raising the case and voting jabber, bunnies asks him numerous questions to get more information. There’s significant back and forth between them.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=6#116
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=7#126
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=8#145
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=8#150
I’m not going to list them all, there are plenty, look at bunnies’ filter, they are all over. She is not set on the lynch. This is the kind of reaction I would expect from town.


Meapak_Ziphh doesn’t interact with jabber much, but he does comment on the case numerous times through D1 and explaining how he feels on the lynch. His filter doesn’t look as good as bunnies to me – he doesn’t really ask jabber anything directly or necessarily stir up discussion. I think he's kind of suspicious anyway, but he’s still better than slOosh.
+ Show Spoiler +

Discusses reasons for joining vote - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=14#262
Says which situation he thinks is most likely - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=15#286
Still thinks jabber is best lynch - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=16#306
Directs comments to jabber (admittedly not in a helpful or inquisitive way) - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=17#333


Gobbledydook:
starts off with some hesitancy on the lynch and gives fair reasons, explains his thoughts as he goes, addresses comments to jabber as well.
+ Show Spoiler +

Comments on lynch - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=9#161
Shows more certainty after jabber’s responses - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=16#308
Explains his comment - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=16#313
Addresses comments to jabber - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=20#383


HaruRH:
A lot of Haru’s talk about JWZ is responsive, but he does address JWZ directly as well and comments on the lynch multiple times through d1. As an aside, rereading Haru’s talk D1 is the main reasons I now want to push slOosh over Haru. I still have doubts, for sure, but Haru’s level of interactionwith jabber feels so much higher than slOosh’s.
+ Show Spoiler +

Talks to JWZ telling him to look elsewhere - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=7#130
Discusses his interactions with JWZ (this is in response to a direct question, though) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=7#137
Gives updates on play (again responses to question) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=9#165
Points out something he sees as scummy http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=9#179
Talks with JWZ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=9#180
Explains thoughts (response) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=16#316
Comments on jabber http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=29#566
(more in filter)


Sqrt:
Sqrt was around when the case was made on jabber and interacted some with jabber and the players involved. He does ask jabber some questions and comments on jabber’s subsequent posts
+ Show Spoiler +

Joking to jabber http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=6#113
Commenting on jabber’s response http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=6#115
Goes through reasons after voting http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=13#259, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=15#289
Specifically says jabber is his top scum http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=16#305
Comments on jabber’s subsequent posts http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=18#344
Asks for clarification from jabber http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=19#379


Alakaslam: Ehh slam doesn’t really do much better than slOosh in this respect. He does have a little more on JWZ but it’s not too substantial either.
+ Show Spoiler +

Initial explanation of vote on jabber: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=12#240
More explanation/thought on jabber: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=14#261


Mderg, Fuba, Palmar: I’m not going back into their filters because I did a lot already, and I know these players talked a lot about the jabber wagon on D1 so I don’t really want to post links on them for no reason.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



So I just went through all these players. Why?

It’s certainly possible for mafia to ask questions to jabber. They probably did!

But, it is really hard for me to believe that town joins a vote on jabber, yet doesn’t seem to revisit the issue, talk about its merits with other players, or get some sort of confirmation from jabber.

Pretty much every player in the game discussed the jabber lynch to some extent. Maybe we questioned jabber, or we explained our thoughts on why it could be a natural mistake, a scumslip, what jabber’s followup comments meant to us, etc.

slOosh doesn’t ask any questions to jabber, or really follow up on the lynch. We get his explanation here (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=12#229).
After voting for jabber, slOosh's D1 is questioning other players on why they vote for jabber, talking about Slam & Palmar, etc. Seriously, take a look at his filter and see how little he has to say about the lynch that was there basically the entire day.


Wheres other players expressed doubt through trying to get more information, press jabber for more information, etc.,
If you are town, you (like me) did not know whether jabber was mafia or not. You talked about the lynch, you read jabber's responses, and you probably considered them and wrote something about your reads.

slOosh's d1 reflects indifference to the lynch. I feel that indifference comes from scum.

##Vote: slOosh

Not interacting with him isn't the same thing as indifference. Jabber was in a situation where basically the entirety of town was calling him scum. The best thing to do in this situation is to ease off the pressure so we can see if he can develop some reads and absolve himself. Otherwise all his efforts are put into trying to defend himself for a mistake we now know was innocently made, and cannot be defended. Which is what he ended up doing.

This led to posts like this
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2014 09:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
I'm just gonna go 1 by 1 and tell what I think of everybody so far
1) Chromatically
Thought his activity was suspicious at first, but rethinking about it now he doesn't seem too bad.
2) 27ninjabunnies
Playing hard, throwing around leads. She could be scummy, but I'm leaning towards town for her. Nothing she's said has jumped out as questionable.
3) Meapak_Ziphh
I agree with gobbledy, that his scatterbrainedness is more about a lack of confidence about his reads than scumm behavior.
4) gobbledydook
no reads
5) jabberwockzerg
That's me! Town, if there seems to be any confusion :D
6) mderg
Not really getting much.
7) HaruRH
Kinda defending me, which is cool of him. A real pal. Don't see why a Mafia would do that at all, so he's clean.
8) sqrtofneg1
On May 27 2014 10:17 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
tbh, I'm the reason we're in detention, so I have a lot of pressure on me to carry town to a win now.
So I'm not fine, I'm under pressure.

and then following up with
On May 27 2014 10:24 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Or maybe I don't feel the pressure. Maybe I'm scum, for the first time.

You know what really drives me crazy? I must have played over 30 games of irl mafia by now, and I've rolled mafia twice. Cop I've rolled quite a bit of cop, and doctor at least 3 times, but I never rolled mafia.

just kinda seems like a half baked WIFOM attempt from mafia to my (admittedly untrained) eyes
also he has been throwing down a lot without following up on a lot. Probably my frontrunner for scum at this point.
9) slOosh
not getting much
10) Amiko
Good, high quality posts, but no read at this point in time
11) Alakaslam
no read
12) fuba
Defending me, which is great of him. No reason for a Mafia to defend me, so he's clean for me.
13) Palmar
A little scummy, which has been covered but not really at the forefront of my mind.

I'll be happy to answer any questions people have for the next couple hours and attempt to clear my name

In hindsight we see that because his time and focus is bent on something that he admits was a mistake and is indefensible, his post quality dropped. At the time, it's not clear if this is from scum or town, because there isn't too much actual content in here. I wanted to avoid this by not adding onto the grilling of him, and instead watch what he does if left alone.

This is why I started prodding other people as it's more productive than just waiting to see what jabber would say, and also maybe provide avenues for jabber to contribute. In the end jabber wasn't really able to mount any meaningful content so I left my vote on him.



I don´t think him making a case on MZ is alignment indicative for either of them. An MZ lynch is basically the only way for sloosh to survive. If sloosh flips scum (I´m assuming that he will be the lynch for today) it doesn´t clear MZ at all, since sloosh´s case on him came only when both were under heavy pressure.


This basically seals the deal for me.
On May 31 2014 05:07 Amiko wrote:
He doesn’t indicate whether he wants another wagon or not – he waits to see who is proposed
Here are ALL OF SLOOSH’S POSTS that come after we are discussing a second wagon until the vote.

I was going to put this in a spoiler tag, but then I saw how few posts there were so why bother.

Show nested quote +
On May 29 2014 03:38 slOosh wrote:
I assume he was piggybacking on the "seems straightforward" aspect.

@Amiko, what do you mean by second wagon? What does that look like?

Show nested quote +
On May 29 2014 03:54 slOosh wrote:
Did the term wagon change while I was gone?

Are you guys proposing lynching someone else today?

Show nested quote +
On May 29 2014 04:05 slOosh wrote:
On May 29 2014 03:57 Amiko wrote:
@slOosh:
Maybe jabberwockzerg will be lynched today, maybe not. Either way, I'd rather have the day end where there are two people who reasonably could get lynched. In that case, our votes are more significant because they reflect an actual choice: it means people found one person scummy as compared to another person. If all the votes are on jabberwockzerg, the votes don't tell us much of anything and don't reflect a meaningful choice by the players.

Since some players don't want to vote jabberwockzerg, I want to know who their pick would be.

I think with the deadline as is, if you want to bring up someone else you should do it immediately.

Show nested quote +
On May 29 2014 04:14 slOosh wrote:
On May 29 2014 04:07 Amiko wrote:
@slOosh:
I'm writing now and seeing what I find. I can post what I have and continue I suppose.
Btw I asked you for a read on Alakaslam a little earlier since a fair number of your posts seemed to focus on him, can you give me any comments?

@27ninjabunnies: Nothing personal bunnies, but I'm going to ignore that post unless you give me anything to write about :x

Oh I must have missed it.

His posting style as is this game seems fine. I was more concerned if he was going to take it all the way ala last game, which is cause for concern as making your posts intentionally harder to read usually only makes sense from scum perspective.


When I raise a wagon (as he says I should do soon) he doesn't even comment on it.

So, as I said before, slOosh is scum because he doesn't weigh in on jabber, who should be a focus for the day.

But, slOosh is also scum because he doesn't weigh in on any of the other wagons (Palmar, Haru, fuba)

What Amiko pointed out looks like textbook scumplay to me.



With this I´m pretty sure sloosh is scum. My opinion on MZ also didn´t change one bit, it´s just that sloosh is even scummier than him.


##unvote
##vote: slOosh
27ninjabunnies
Profile Joined April 2014
United States2486 Posts
May 31 2014 18:22 GMT
#743
I know i said i would make a case, but important things came up at work...

So

##Vote: Sloosh

And ill be back after deadline. Sorrryyyyyyy
I suspect the secret of personal attraction is locked up in our unique imperfections, flaws and frailties.~Hugh Mackay
27ninjabunnies
Profile Joined April 2014
United States2486 Posts
May 31 2014 18:23 GMT
#744
##vote:sloosh
I suspect the secret of personal attraction is locked up in our unique imperfections, flaws and frailties.~Hugh Mackay
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
May 31 2014 19:11 GMT
#745
Hey guys sorry I've been really afk, saw someone ask me why my vote isn't on sloosh if I think the case is good, that's a good point, I should put my vote where my mouth is: ##Vote: Sloosh.

I also see I was a major target today, if people want to ask me questions I will be more than happy to answer them.
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
May 31 2014 19:54 GMT
#746
Yes,

What is sqrtofneg1 looking like to you?
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 31 2014 21:40 GMT
#747
Meapak is scum and skirting by another day because of the wagon on me. Please refer back to my case and don't get sidetracked. Make sure he gets lynched tomorrow. The fact that he comes in to slap his vote despite no one actually asking him why he did it is proof he isn't really attentive to thread.

Pressure gobbles next. His huge post concerning MZ doesn't really seem to have a conclusion, and it's not clear how exactly he is reading MZ as town.

With bunny,
On May 31 2014 13:57 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I mean. Idk. I prob need to read the last few pages, but im super tired... Lol

Yeah, i think ill just post in the morning.

Sloosh, palmer, mz probz scum.

Will discuss later

Find out what she means by this. As someone who was pretty involved day 1, she should question a palmer mz scum team the way they went against each other. Likewise for day 2. This is a very strange post.

I don't think fuba is as scummy as people are making him to be. His reads of MZ and sqrt seem very reasonable in that they aren't leaning hard either way but seem to be developing over time, considering that they could be town / mafia, instead of just assuming that they are one and going with it, which is what mafia do.

Amiko ... I'm not too sure. I could see scum making a strong push for MZ, since he brushes off anything I say about MZ and makes sure the focus is on me, or it could just be misguided townie thinking I'm the stronger lynch. I would be watchful of what his actions relating to non-MZ players are, especially during the next day.

Good luck town. Watch out for busses tomorrow.
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
May 31 2014 21:58 GMT
#748
On June 01 2014 04:54 Alakaslam wrote:
Yes,

What is sqrtofneg1 looking like to you?

Oddly inactive for someone who had 6 pages of filter D1 and less than one page D2. As I previously mentioned, I think his super jumpy reads seem scummy and much of his D1 filter is actually fluff posts and off topic shit.
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
fuba
Profile Joined April 2014
United States663 Posts
May 31 2014 22:18 GMT
#749
Oh god, fell asleep when I got home. It doesn't look like my vote will sway the lynch much, but I'll try to get my thoughts out before it happens :S
@theRealMkfuba07
fuba
Profile Joined April 2014
United States663 Posts
May 31 2014 23:06 GMT
#750
##Unvote

Something that's bugging me about this lynch is that if slOosh and MZ are generally considered to be scummy in similar ways, then scum could vote for either of them for generally the same reasons. So if they're not both scum, then it's far more likely that today will be a mislynch. SlOosh's last post made me feel like he's town, because he gave his reads instead of just ditching the thread when he's pretty definitely getting lynched. It could be a scum ploy, but his comments about Amiko make me really uneasy about lynching him. He appears to be looking at his own lynch from a townie's eyes. He sees that there are two similar wagons and the driving force behind one being stronger than the other is Amiko. He warns us against trusting anything Amiko says about non-MZ lynches D3 because if SlOosh is town then he knows Amiko's actions have brought scum within one mislynch of winning. That last post from SlOosh is possibly one of the towniest things in the thread, imo, because I find that mentality to be something that's pretty difficult to fake. He doesn't just say "don't trust Amiko", as I believe scum would do, but he took it a step farther and said not to trust him if he tries to push anything other than MZ D3. That is what I find so townie about this post.

If I have to vote for one or the other, at the moment, I'd ##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh

It bugs me that Palmar hasn't returned to the thread before this lynch, since he's on the MZ wagon but said he's be up for a SlOosh lynch. Dunno if I find him scummy for it, but given my current view of this as a scum-controlled lynch, his absence is allowing what I believe is going to be a mislynch to happen over his top scumread.
@theRealMkfuba07
fuba
Profile Joined April 2014
United States663 Posts
May 31 2014 23:08 GMT
#751
And to be clear, I've been reading Amiko as townie, but I feel that sloosh's reaction of considering him possibly scum because of the nature of this lynch makes sloosh more likely to be town.
@theRealMkfuba07
fuba
Profile Joined April 2014
United States663 Posts
May 31 2014 23:10 GMT
#752
I'd go as far as to say that if you think they're both scummy, and the flip today is not going to affect your read on the other player (as pretty much everyone in the game has asserted), then we should lynch the one that hasn't had the strongest wagon during the day, simply because scum have had far more control in this situation than town has.
@theRealMkfuba07
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
May 31 2014 23:11 GMT
#753
Vote count:


Meapak_Ziphh (3) - HaruRH, Palmar, mderg, SlOosh, fuba
slOosh(7) - Amiko, Alakaslam, HaruRH, sqrtofneg1, mderg, 27ninjabunnies, Meapak_Ziphh
Sqrtofneg1(0) - fuba

Not voting (1) : - gobbledydook


Currently slOosh is set to be lynched!

Day ends in

PM me if you see a mistake! I did this on my phone.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
fuba
Profile Joined April 2014
United States663 Posts
May 31 2014 23:30 GMT
#754
Anyone here? Thoughts about what I've said?
@theRealMkfuba07
Amiko
Profile Joined February 2014
United States1725 Posts
May 31 2014 23:32 GMT
#755
I'm in thread - I'll do a grocery run in a bit and be back before deadline, but I'll give some comments in a minute or two while I catch up on everything.

Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
May 31 2014 23:36 GMT
#756
It's weekend fuba, I can't play as much on weekends.

But you're right. The way the votes are falling, everyone who is town should absolutely move on to MZ. I'll take the blame if I'm wrong.
Computer says mafia
Amiko
Profile Joined February 2014
United States1725 Posts
May 31 2014 23:43 GMT
#757
Please explain this (Palmar & fuba):

How do you not vote slOosh when nearly everything suspicious about M_Z also applies to slOosh, plus slOosh is scummier in other ways?

@Palmar:
You should also join my lynch on slOosh because fuba's play today is weird and he is pushing M_Z - if you don't see that I can argue about it.
Amiko
Profile Joined February 2014
United States1725 Posts
May 31 2014 23:45 GMT
#758
Also
@Fuba:
Can you clarify - do you actually think M_Z is scummier than slOosh?
Or is your vote on M_Z just because you liked slOosh's last post?
Amiko
Profile Joined February 2014
United States1725 Posts
May 31 2014 23:49 GMT
#759
Woah okay I think I answered my own question
On June 01 2014 08:08 fuba wrote:
And to be clear, I've been reading Amiko as townie, but I feel that sloosh's reaction of considering him possibly scum because of the nature of this lynch makes sloosh more likely to be town.


So it's clear to me that you are townreading slOosh.
You feel his last post outweighs everything I wrote, enough that you townread him?

And what is "the nature of the lynch" - I thought you were townreading him based on his responses in his last post?
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
May 31 2014 23:54 GMT
#760
On June 01 2014 08:43 Amiko wrote:
Please explain this (Palmar & fuba):

How do you not vote slOosh when nearly everything suspicious about M_Z also applies to slOosh, plus slOosh is scummier in other ways?

@Palmar:
You should also join my lynch on slOosh because fuba's play today is weird and he is pushing M_Z - if you don't see that I can argue about it.


I think fuba is town, I don't care if his play is weird.

This sloosh lynch is going too easily. We should do MZ.
Computer says mafia
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