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Nah I was just asking because I thought for sure there was a parity cop in the game and I wanted to save myself some time. I'd have believed either of you claiming it. Looks like we don't have one though.
So because all of us have been townie I decided to look at our caught mafia's reads to see if I got anything. Let me know if you need specific links for reference to any of my claims here.
===
Evolution of dravernor's reads on the three of us, plus her partner dfs
DAY 1
- Epishade and bunnies are top two scum, but more likely Epishade
- Eden looks scummy for throwing votes around
- bunnies is top town read due to tonal changes, Epishade still most likely scum, on fence about Eden
- votes Epishade
DAY 2
- Epishade still top scum read, "paranoid" about how town bunnies is being, no read about Eden
- Epishade STILL top scum read, on fence about bunnies and Eden, dfs probably town
DAY 3
- bunnies is town, Epishade is STILL SCUM, Eden maybe scum, dfs town
- Guess what she said about Epishade, still seems to like bunnies but thinks she's being weird, still looking at me funny for moving vote around, dfs still town but hard to read
CONCLUSION: Occam's Razor says it's bunnies, her treatment of bunnies is eerily parallel to her treatment of dfs and her treatment of Epishade is like her treatment of me, but more blatant. She wasn't setting me up to bus her from Day One and she DEFINITELY wasn't setting up Epishade for it.
===
Evolution of dfs's reads on the three of us, plus his partner dravernor
DAY 1
- says everyone is on scum list until proven otherwise but implies bunnies has proven otherwise
- bunnies makes the most sense, all three of us are the thread's "Big 3"
- bunnies most town person, no reads given on me, Epishade or dravernor
- no comment on bunnies or Epishade, says me and dravernor are null
DAY 2
- names Epishade as suspect, no comment on bunnies, dravernor or me
DAY 3
- bunnies is town
DAY 4
[...]
CONCLUSION: The only thing to take away is a townread on bunnies. Treatment of dravernor is nonexistent, treatment of me and Epishade is largely nonexistent too, just some suspicion thrown at us here and there.
===
I think based on this, Epishade is almost certainly town. I don't see how scum!dravernor could think it a good play to keep harping on scum!Epishade with her relatively sparse posts throughout the first few days. She has to know she wouldn't get any credit for it if Epishade were lynched/shot and flipped scum. The more reasonable explanation is that she was hoping for Epishade to get lynched as town. dfs is a cypher but what little we have points more toward Epishade being town than bunnies imo.
As individuals I think all three of us have been pretty townie the whole game, which is why I went to what our known mafia players said about each of us. That data points most clearly to bunnies.
I'm also a little leery of bunnies asking us both for cases, like she's confirmed town and we have to convince her we're innocent. Acknowledging that this might be confirmation bias because I already think she's the last mafia, this still doesn't sit well with me. It seems like she's wanting Epishade and me to make cases for her so that she can justify whichever vote she ends up making. Epishade responded with strong casework which I don't see a mafia player feeling the need to do.
##VOTE 27ninjabunnies
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Wow, I love how Eden just jumps on that. So let me address a few things in each of your posts, starting with epishade. Then I make my cases on each of you.
First I want to address the yell0w thing. I went super hard on yell0w day 1 for his joking claim of mafia. With much of town backing me on day 1, if I was mafia there, wouldn't I have kept on pushing to get an easy ml? No, instead I pulled off of yell0w and cleared him as town, and then stayed off of him the rest of the game, when I could have had easy ml on him there. It was then tamburini who tried to get a bw going on yell0w, in which I did not follow.
I believe it is super beneficial to talk during the night. For one, you are able to get reads from people who are more likely to die in the night. I agree it is super weird that I lasted this long. Hell, if I were one of you (whichever one is town), I'd put suspicion on me too for that. I think the reason why I am alive in the final 3 right now is due to this: My posts have been lacking the last couple of days-which I have admitted to multiple times, and have given my reasons for- and because in the night I said that yell0w was most town and I didn't know which one out of epishade and eden it was. Here, I was hoping it was actually yell0w as mafia, and either, 1 yell0w would kill off epishade and expect me to go on eden, or I wouldn't have to play final 3. (I was hoping for the latter). Unfortunately for me, I was right on it being one between Eden/Epishade (something I've had a suspicion on all game).
Also, Epishade, I disagree with you on the Eden can't be mafia because his posts are well thought out and methodological. I have been in games where I have posted multitudes of reads, explanations, and thoughts which made me seem townie, but I was in fact mafia. It is a great mafia play, and I'm not willing to let eden slide just because his posts hold substance and it seems as if he is trying to figure out the game.
So, Eden, I'm glad you brought up the reads that dfs and dravernor typed over their days here, and I was actually going to use them on my case against you.
So for dravernor, he put high suspicion on me and Epishade for most of his reads, but then you just get fenced the entire time. You were pretty much avoided in both Dravernor's and Dfs reads,, and I feel as that is usually a mafia play to ignore one of their partners completely.
As for me asking cases on both of you, I want to see if there is any connection you place between yourself and the mafia we have lynched. I find it odd that Eden basically bws the vote on me after epishade thinks its most likely me.
I would also like to point out some of the votes. I basically led the lynch on dravernor. Also, Eden and Epishade both voted for dravernor and dfs (though it took more time for Eden to vote on either than it did Epishade).
Also, I don't think it's Epishade here (which I'll explain more in my later post). When the vote was being led on Dravernor, Epishade was voting for dfs. If Epishade was mafia here, I think he would try to vote on someone outside of his partners, not bus both of them, so therefore my top case will most likely be on Eden.
I'll state my cases on each of you in my next post, but there's somethings to think about.
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On May 16 2014 01:17 27ninjabunnies wrote:
So, Eden, I'm glad you brought up the reads that dfs and dravernor typed over their days here, and I was actually going to use them on my case against you.
So for dravernor, he put high suspicion on me and Epishade for most of his reads, but then you just get fenced the entire time. You were pretty much avoided in both Dravernor's and Dfs reads,, and I feel as that is usually a mafia play to ignore one of their partners completely.
That's wrong. dravernor listed you and Epishade really early in D1 as top scum reads, but then did a strange 180 on you based on what I could best determine to be a change in your tone(?) and listed you as top town. From there she kept waffling between "on the fence about bunnies" and "bunnies is town," in parallel with her read on dfs; from Day 2 onward anytime she townread dfs she townread you and anytime she was on the fence about dfs she was on the fence about you as well. Looking at the profile of this mafia so far, clearly the last mafia is one of the more talkative players, someone who's been very involved and active with the town. It's hard for me to believe that the more quiet mafia players wouldn't townread their active talker to give that talker more support. And while it's true dfs didn't talk much about me, where dfs did talk about me he mainly focused on picking at what I was saying and subtly discrediting some of my pushes (calling them "weird" or "hard to read"). This doesn't fit the profile of a quiet mafia player supporting his active partner's efforts to steer town conversation in a given direction. He didn't do the same thing to you.
On May 16 2014 01:17 27ninjabunnies wrote:
As for me asking cases on both of you, I want to see if there is any connection you place between yourself and the mafia we have lynched. I find it odd that Eden basically bws the vote on me after epishade thinks its most likely me.
That's pretty easy. Epishade is obviously town because dravernor and dfs kept insisting he was mafia all the time. There's no way the mafia just openly discredit their frontman so frequently and consistently. So Epishade is definitely town. Then you can make a reasonable case against both of us because dravernor and dfs weren't super-committal in their positions on either of us, but I come out a decent but not incredible amount ahead because dravernor and dfs spent a lot of time subtly discrediting me and townreading/supporting you. Again, mafia don't openly discredit their frontman, and they tend to avoid subtly throwing doubt on the frontman, too. It's easy once the frontman is lynched just to go "Oops, he seemed town, I misread him" and move on. There's plenty of scum-sided motivation to townread the frontman, very little to discredit the frontman whether openly or subtly.
That doesn't really address my concern though. You even called me out for "bandwagoning" you (which clearly isn't the case, I laid out my logic and it's distinct from Epishade's), but you haven't made a substantial argument either way yet. Every response that goes by without your own casework solidifies in my mind the idea that you're the last mafia and you're trying to feel out both of us by getting us to write cases before you decide who you want to try to kill.
On May 16 2014 01:17 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I would also like to point out some of the votes. I basically led the lynch on dravernor. Also, Eden and Epishade both voted for dravernor and dfs (though it took more time for Eden to vote on either than it did Epishade).
This is also false. You were the first vote on dravernor out of us, sure, but I did more to get dravernor lynched than you did for sure. I called out Yell0w for trying to get an alternate wagon going and was pretty vocal about pushing people to stay on the dravernor lynch. I was more hesitant to kill dfs, but I stand by my argument at the time -- if both of my major scumreads at the time were happily lining up to kill dfs, of course I wasn't going to kill dfs if I could avoid it. In the end I killed dfs though.
On May 16 2014 01:17 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Also, I don't think it's Epishade here (which I'll explain more in my later post). When the vote was being led on Dravernor, Epishade was voting for dfs. If Epishade was mafia here, I think he would try to vote on someone outside of his partners, not bus both of them, so therefore my top case will most likely be on Eden.
You say this, but all three of us voted for mafia on both turns mafia died. I don't think this is a great point for or against anyone.
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So, after reading through the filter of Eden, I actually like him. and that's scary. And I was gonna say this:Even though you are from Louisiana, sorry bud, but you are mafia. And here is why.- but I can't find any good reasons for why he is mafia.
Eden-
Tbh- Eden was pretty town d1. His push on yell0w wasn't too hard to seem scummy, but it wasn't too soft ether. He gave reasonings that were actually pretty good. His switch onto tamburini was weird, even if tamburini was serial killer. His reasonings were too.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 01 2014 11:51 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2014 11:17 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
If you're town, are you more concerned about a serial killer? or are you more concerned about mafia?
As town, I'm more concerned about mafia, which are guaranteed to be in the setup, rather than the serial killer.
After a bit of mulligan, I've noticed something.
Eden is mafia.
He has been talking quite a bit less than the other game.
He pushes yellow first.
Then he gets out the serial killer case on tambo. Before this, he was pretty much sure that yellow was mafia. It doesn't make sense to go after serial killer if you're town, and you have a mafia suspect, because what if tambo was telling the truth? From a townie's perspective, he should have stuck with the yellow lynch, rather than potentially killing vigi.
He changed his vote to tambo because he believes the vigi claim. He's afraid of leaving the vigi alive. That means, that if eden is mafia, there's definitely no roleblocker.
Yes, it is possible that tambo is serial killer. However, Eden's actions following tambo's roleclaim is a dead giveaway of his alignment.
Eden is mafia. You're not assessing this properly. Take a look at my incentives with each alignment. Town: I want to kill the serial killer and the mafia if I believe both to be in the game. I think mtamburini is fakeclaiming as serial killer because his claim only makes sense in the scenario I described in my big post. He's just making himself the n1 kill if he's actually the vigilante, which is colossally stupid. It's better for me to kill the serial killer over a mafia because removing the serial killer takes away 1 of the 2 anti-town kp. If I killed, say, Yell0w and he flipped scum, we've caught a mafia, but we're equally close to winning (as in either case we've killed 1 anti-town player), and we still have 2 anti-town kp instead of one to deal with. The serial killer is always the better kill. Mafia: I can just shoot mtamburini tonight without drawing any attention to myself if I think he's actually the vigilante. If I'm mafia and I come out with this big case saying that the vigilante is actually the serial killer, and I don't get him lynched, I'm getting shot that night. If I do get him lynched, I'm getting myself lynched the next day. In both cases I'm needlessly throwing away my life to get rid of a vigilante I could just shoot that night at no cost.
You could also, as mafia shoot the serial killer, because serial killer always has the chance of shooting your mafia partners. However, that is neither here nor there. The fact that Eden doesn't even bring up the possibility ofa roleblocker makes me think that he is more town in this instance.
As for votes, I realize some inconsistancies from what my previous post said. Eden did infact vote dfs at one point, which means votes can't be really used in this scenerio. Each one of us voted for dfs and dravernor at one point, which means whoever is mafia out of you two bussed your partners.
Eden scum reads both mafia all days that he gives his reads. That is some major bussing there if he is mafia.
Eden's posts are actually consistant with finding mafia. So my read has flipped. Epishade is probably the mafia out of you two.
Epishade
So the only thing that Epishade has going for him is that he was townread by basically the entire town, including me and Eden, though Eden was iffy on him at one point, but switched his read on him.
Also, ritoky, (something Eden pointed out in one of his reads) is really sure that epishade is mafia here. Not sure if it is something fully we need to look at.
But... where from there? ashwtini/dravernor/dfs makes three. I think that trio makes Epishade look bad in conjunction with the n2 kill (ritoky was really solid on Epishade being scum
The fact that Dravernor and dfs were both mafia here, puts pretty high suspicion on Epishade.
Meat also died in the night, and had a scumread on Epishade, dravernor, and dfs as the mafia trio.
SO for me, it seems as mostly the data points to epishade here.
Also, someone pointed out, that epishade and I seemed to be buddying. Either epishade jumped in my pocket, or my into his. I think it's the latter because of how townie I was reading him, and the fact I think he is mafia.
I find it weird here that Epishade puts dravorner as neutral read, and votes yellow.
So epishade reads: Had Dravernor as slight town d1, gave no read on dfs except that he talked a bit.Scum reads on and off on dfs and dravernor in the following days
Both of you are fantastic players (definitely not newbie, especially if Eden's playing in that champions game haha), and for whoever is mafia, I commend you on a job well done.
I am town here, is the best I can say. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask
##Vote: Epishade
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On May 16 2014 02:09 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2014 01:17 27ninjabunnies wrote:
As for me asking cases on both of you, I want to see if there is any connection you place between yourself and the mafia we have lynched. I find it odd that Eden basically bws the vote on me after epishade thinks its most likely me. That's pretty easy. Epishade is obviously town because dravernor and dfs kept insisting he was mafia all the time. There's no way the mafia just openly discredit their frontman so frequently and consistently. So Epishade is definitely town. Then you can make a reasonable case against both of us because dravernor and dfs weren't super-committal in their positions on either of us, but I come out a decent but not incredible amount ahead because dravernor and dfs spent a lot of time subtly discrediting me and townreading/supporting you. Again, mafia don't openly discredit their frontman, and they tend to avoid subtly throwing doubt on the frontman, too. It's easy once the frontman is lynched just to go "Oops, he seemed town, I misread him" and move on. There's plenty of scum-sided motivation to townread the frontman, very little to discredit the frontman whether openly or subtly. That doesn't really address my concern though. You even called me out for "bandwagoning" you (which clearly isn't the case, I laid out my logic and it's distinct from Epishade's), but you haven't made a substantial argument either way yet. Every response that goes by without your own casework solidifies in my mind the idea that you're the last mafia and you're trying to feel out both of us by getting us to write cases before you decide who you want to try to kill.
I disagree here, just because dravernor and dfs insisted he was mafia, they could have easily been bussing. We all have voted on dfs and dravernor, which means one of you bussed them, so that point is invalid.
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On May 16 2014 02:11 27ninjabunnies wrote:Eden- Tbh- Eden was pretty town d1. His push on yell0w wasn't too hard to seem scummy, but it wasn't too soft ether. He gave reasonings that were actually pretty good. His switch onto tamburini was weird, even if tamburini was serial killer. His reasonings were too. + Show Spoiler +On May 01 2014 11:51 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2014 11:17 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
If you're town, are you more concerned about a serial killer? or are you more concerned about mafia?
As town, I'm more concerned about mafia, which are guaranteed to be in the setup, rather than the serial killer.
After a bit of mulligan, I've noticed something.
Eden is mafia.
He has been talking quite a bit less than the other game.
He pushes yellow first.
Then he gets out the serial killer case on tambo. Before this, he was pretty much sure that yellow was mafia. It doesn't make sense to go after serial killer if you're town, and you have a mafia suspect, because what if tambo was telling the truth? From a townie's perspective, he should have stuck with the yellow lynch, rather than potentially killing vigi.
He changed his vote to tambo because he believes the vigi claim. He's afraid of leaving the vigi alive. That means, that if eden is mafia, there's definitely no roleblocker.
Yes, it is possible that tambo is serial killer. However, Eden's actions following tambo's roleclaim is a dead giveaway of his alignment.
Eden is mafia. You're not assessing this properly. Take a look at my incentives with each alignment. Town: I want to kill the serial killer and the mafia if I believe both to be in the game. I think mtamburini is fakeclaiming as serial killer because his claim only makes sense in the scenario I described in my big post. He's just making himself the n1 kill if he's actually the vigilante, which is colossally stupid. It's better for me to kill the serial killer over a mafia because removing the serial killer takes away 1 of the 2 anti-town kp. If I killed, say, Yell0w and he flipped scum, we've caught a mafia, but we're equally close to winning (as in either case we've killed 1 anti-town player), and we still have 2 anti-town kp instead of one to deal with. The serial killer is always the better kill. Mafia: I can just shoot mtamburini tonight without drawing any attention to myself if I think he's actually the vigilante. If I'm mafia and I come out with this big case saying that the vigilante is actually the serial killer, and I don't get him lynched, I'm getting shot that night. If I do get him lynched, I'm getting myself lynched the next day. In both cases I'm needlessly throwing away my life to get rid of a vigilante I could just shoot that night at no cost. You could also, as mafia shoot the serial killer, because serial killer always has the chance of shooting your mafia partners. However, that is neither here nor there. The fact that Eden doesn't even bring up the possibility ofa roleblocker makes me think that he is more town in this instance.
Wouldn't that imply that he knew serial killer wouldn't have taken the immunity from 1 kp during the night? If Eden were mafia, I don't think he'd risk wasting a shot on serial killer at night. Regardless of that, your implication that just because Eden doesn't bring up there being a potential roleblocker makes him more town doesn't seem like a good reason to me. It's a minute detail that Eden could have left in or out regardless of his alignment and it would mean nothing. It seems to me that you are forcing cases to make Eden seem like town so that you can vote for me instead.
Eden scum reads both mafia all days that he gives his reads. That is some major bussing there if he is mafia.
Eden's posts are actually consistant with finding mafia. So my read has flipped. Epishade is probably the mafia out of you two.
I agree here too. I don't think Eden is mafia because of the bussing that would be necessary from day 1 if he were. He's been scumreading them both as mafia for most of the game, something that, I'll admit, I haven't done all that much. But Drav and dfs have been hard scumreading me the entire game, and Eden for the most part too. What sense would it make for both Drav and dfs to scumread me from Day1 for the whole game if I were their partner? Then they turn around and clear you as town, sometimes for odd reasons, like in the post that I made before.
Eden also drove the wagon on Drav too at a time when he probably could have switched to Meat and saved a potential teammate. Eden's not mafia for me, which only leads to you then.
EpishadeSo the only thing that Epishade has going for him is that he was townread by basically the entire town, including me and Eden, though Eden was iffy on him at one point, but switched his read on him. Also, ritoky, (something Eden pointed out in one of his reads) is really sure that epishade is mafia here. Not sure if it is something fully we need to look at. Show nested quote +But... where from there? ashwtini/dravernor/dfs makes three. I think that trio makes Epishade look bad in conjunction with the n2 kill (ritoky was really solid on Epishade being scum
This was something I said to Meat, too, and was why I questioned Meat to begin with. I'll post my response to Meat as it ties in here:
I don't think many people here suspected Ritoky as being scum. (I may be wrong, I'm going off memory here and don't want to look through the whole thread to see people's thoughts on Ritoky) So it's not entirely unlikely for mafia to kill Ritoky as he was town-viewed by many people and probably wouldn't have ever been a lynch candidate.
However, I think it's interesting to note that you think Ritoky was killed because he viewed me as scum, instead of the above, that he was town-viewed by majority.
What about a scenario like this:
Ritoky thinks I'm scum.
Mafia kills Ritoky.
Someone (mafia) steps up and says that Ritoky must have been on the right path to have been killed.
Person that steps up thinks it's suspicious of me since Ritoky died and he suspected me most.
Now, I made that post before I realized something. I didn't catch this until an hour or so ago, but you made some posts here.
On May 06 2014 10:06 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Okay, so I got roleblocked once again in the night.
I wanna say that since Ritoky brought up the idea of jailkeeper, and that I could have been blocked by the JK, then I'm asuming he was the one wh blocked/saved me.
So if mystery AND tamburini got blocked as well, then we are looking at a town and mafia roleblocker left.
Ok, so you've figured out that Ritoky is likely the jailkeeper since he brought up the possibility of a jailkeeper protecting you. Assuming you're mafia, you know you don't really need the protection. You have no reason not to kill him next, as he is a blue role that could potentially negate one of your shots.
If you're not mafia, and you're actually town, then this was a bad post. You're alerting mafia to the chance that Ritoky is jailkeeper. No reason to figure out blue roles like that in this game and then say who you think it is to town.
Then you have this post after Ritoky gets shot and Tamburini asks why he shouldn't shoot people.
On May 08 2014 14:13 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Okay, tamburini, you shouldn't shoot me because I was obvious town being roleblocked by the jailer, which mafia confirmed by killing off of ritoky, who pretty much claimed to roleblock me. Not only this, but I have been seemingly town, trying to figure out game, and though I have pushed mislynches on several people, did push the lynch on dravernor yesterday, when I could have easily voted off meat and (probably) lost town the game. Also, because I am no longer being protected by jailer in the night, I'm more than likely going to be killed in the night.
So here is who I would shoot. I would shoot between Ahs, dfs, and Eden, in that order.
I can give information as to why but I'm mostly using process of elimination. Obviously, if you are vigi, you and I are town. I find Epishade and Eden more townie than not though I am wary that one of them might be a very good mafia scum leading more noobish mafia team, however, I wouldn't shoot them just yet.
If you weren't blocked in the night, more or less we must believe meat's claim, or atleast for now. So he is off the table until tomorrow. Yell0w, although while I was initially d1 scumreading because of how he was trolly and claimed mafia, I believe he is town as he has been trying to figure out the game.
Good luck gentlemen.
Isn't it a bit strange to be clearing yourself as town just because you were protected by the jailkeeper? Sure, everybody saw you as town at this point, but I would in no way clear even myself just because I was blocked by jailkeeper. Nobody has any clue that jailkeeper actually was doing the right thing by blocking you. Ritoky just happened to believe you were town at risk of dying in the night, so he protected you. To claim that mafia confirmed your townieness by killing off Ritoky after protecting you doesn't make any sense. You didn't need the protection anyways because you were mafia. Of course you were going to kill Ritoky as soon as you figured it out, which you did in the post above this.
The fact that Dravernor and dfs were both mafia here, puts pretty high suspicion on Epishade.
Meat also died in the night, and had a scumread on Epishade, dravernor, and dfs as the mafia trio.
Meat had a scumread on Drav, dfs, Ahs, and Eden, in that order when he died. I wasn't in his scumread, but I still don't usually think you should take into account the reason somebody died being their previous thoughts on people. I happened to move forward with the Ahs lynch after Meat died not just because of Meat's trap, but also as a result my own detective work. Ahs was a special circumstance that in that I did include information that Meat had gathered in weighing my decision to vote for him.
SO for me, it seems as mostly the data points to epishade here. Also, someone pointed out, that epishade and I seemed to be buddying. Either epishade jumped in my pocket, or my into his. I think it's the latter because of how townie I was reading him, and the fact I think he is mafia. I find it weird here that Epishade puts dravorner as neutral read, and votes yellow.
I do suppose that is a read I have going against me. I wanted to go in-depth on my read on Drav, but by the end of making the whole post I realized I was inconclusive. There wasn't enough evidence to push Drav one way or the other at the time for me. I voted Yellow at the time because, though I didn't think he was scum, I didn't think anybody else in particular was scum either. I'd rather vote on Yellow and get solid information out of it, since he's been the center of attention, than some random person and get nothing.
So epishade reads: Had Dravernor as slight town d1, gave no read on dfs except that he talked a bit.Scum reads on and off on dfs and dravernor in the following days
Both of you are fantastic players (definitely not newbie, especially if Eden's playing in that champions game haha), and for whoever is mafia, I commend you on a job well done.
I am town here, is the best I can say. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask
##Vote: Epishade
Same. I'm still not convinced not to vote for you though Bunny, sorry.
##VOTE: 27ninjabunnies
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Whoever is town out of you two, really needs to not vote on me. I AM TOWN.
I don't know what else to say, other than I've given my reads, in which many cleared me for as town.
It sucks that I'm going to get lynched for the lack of my posts lately because real life got in the way, but this is freaking ridiculous!!!
As for the ritoky read, I posted that after ritoky died. Ritoky was the one that brought up "Bunnies, it could have meant you were the jailed by the jailkeeper". And then WHEN ritoky died, and only when ritoky died that I drew the conclusion that he was the one who roleblocked me.
And yes, I didn't die because of the fact I was being protected by jailkeeper, I'm sure I would have if I wasn't being protected!
But I'm seriously town here. The fact that both of you were reading me as town for most of the game, Eden and Epishade clearing me basically on day 1, just seems like a pocket.
But whatever, if I can't convince you guys otherwise, then gg, mafia wins.
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Let me go through everything I've done that's been what I think is towny.
As a last hope to not get ml here.
I immediately begin the game with questioning tamburini, sqrt, and yell0w, the three who immediately start talking and ping out others. Two of them I called scum, tamburini and yell0w. Tamburini for declaring himself as town leader, and yell0w for his contradictions and claiming he was mafia (even if it was jokingly).
I got off of yell0w for the reasons that, 1, no one wanted to back me up on it (Though Edenclaimed that it was a townie thing for me to do, epishade scum read me) and 2, when I did get off of yell0w, tamburini wanted to immediately jump on yell0w, which I thought was scummy until his vigi claim.
Then when I got off of yell0w, Eden immediately voted for someone else, yet apparently my going on yell0w for an actual read was scummy but Eden going on Sweetfrost for no reason at all wasn't? That was bull shit.
Epishade also thought I was attacking him at one point early in day 1, which I was not. Epishade seemed pretty defense when all I was asking for was his reasoning and reads.
I also want to point out that I pointed out the silent vote (well near the same time yell0w did) that eden had placed.
Another thing for epishade, he tried to get the conversation pulled away from yell0w. At the time, I thought maybe it was due to yell0w being his partner, but now that yell0w flipped town, I'm assuming it was a mafia trying to seem townie so that when he flipped town, he could gain credibility.
A lot of conversation in the night were between I and sqrt, giving off reads and such. So other than me trying to figure out wh is mafia the entire game, I can't really give you much on that.
My fos has been on Epishade/Eden the entire game, so being in final 3, you both confused me, but I think I have most of a case on Epishade than Eden. If I'm wrong, then I apologize, but I am town this game despite my lack of posts lately.
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So looking at votes, dravernor also voted for epishade, and never voted for Eden. Possible mafia protecting mafia partner?
Also, I was first to go on dravernor, while Eden went on Meat, who seemed pretty town.
But then again, Epishade voted meat after Eden went on Meat.
Eden also didnt vote dfs until the last second, but epishade voted before.
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I REFUSE TO GIVE UP!
Talk you damned mafia scum!
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Also, I think yell0w died in the night over me because he was pushing on eden over epishade, and I wasnt sure between epishade and eden who it was.
My read has changed.
##Unvote
##Vote: Eden
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Oh whoops, I take back the first point about posting about Ritoky being jail keeper then if you said it after he died. My second point still stands that Ritoky blocking you doesn't make you any more town than mafia though.
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True, it doesn't make me any more town, but the fact that ritoky read me enough as town to block me in the night two times in a row should hold some substance, yes?
Honestly, there is nothing really against me being mafia other than that my posts have lacked lately, but give some hard evidence on how I am mafia. What have I done that is NOT TOWN? Because, I seriously can't find anything!
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Anyone? No one?! I'm not getting lynched today, so whoever is town needs to unvote me now.
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None of us have done anything to directly make us look like mafia. The most I have at this point is an educated guess. I made a few points in my first accusatory post that makes you more likely than Eden to be mafia for me. Drav and dfs clearing you under suspicious circumstances, your talking during the night, not being shot the entire game despite being cleared townie. Dfs and Drav also both read me and Eden as scum for much of the game.
And I personally don't think Ritoky reading you as town matters much at this point. Everyone read you as town back then.
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That's where you are wrong. Dravernor read me as scum, so you have no substantial evidence on me.
Your biggest thing on me is that I began posting less. I've already stated reasons for that. And just because I didn't get shot, doesnt mean anything. Jailkeeper was on me 2 nights in a row, which I was impossible to get shot then, therefore mafia placed their shots elsewhere. As for the other nights, I'm not sure why they didn't kill me. I don't know, because I AM NOT MAFIA. The fact that mafia is pushing on me now, is because they think im an easy ml. IM NOT SO GET OFF OF ME.
I believe there is benefit talking in the night, as I stated before. You can get reads off of people who are likely to die in the night. This is super beneficial for town. The only thing I see here is that eden was all like, "Yeah me too, I'm not gonna say anything in the night either." I don't see how that is beneficial to finding mafia.
And your reasons on Eden are pointless as well.
I honestly think you and Eden are both just pulling nothing out of a magical hat that doesn't even work.
I AM TOWN, you need to reconsider this before you let mafia win.
This is ridiculous.
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And I would like to point out, EVERYONE( non including scum) READ ME AS TOWN until now. This final 3.
Why the hell am I being pushed on now?
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And now eden is prob just going to coast until the vote goes through.
I swear whichever one of you is town, needs to get off of me.
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On May 16 2014 05:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
So looking at votes, dravernor also voted for epishade, and never voted for Eden. Possible mafia protecting mafia partner?
Also, I was first to go on dravernor, while Eden went on Meat, who seemed pretty town.
But then again, Epishade voted meat after Eden went on Meat.
Eden also didnt vote dfs until the last second, but epishade voted before.
That first point is such a laughable reach. dravernor never went on you, either. We already talked about the order of the lynch, you're piggybacking town!Yell0w's wrong point from the previous cycle. It doesn't matter when you got on board a lynch, it matters how hard you pushed for that lynch. I pushed it harder than you. To say you parked your vote on dravernor and left would be overstating it, but not by a lot; I'm not surprised at all that you're taking this angle, it's reeking of "See, I look good!" Not buying it.
On May 16 2014 02:11 27ninjabunnies wrote:
So, after reading through the filter of Eden, I actually like him. and that's scary. And I was gonna say this:Even though you are from Louisiana, sorry bud, but you are mafia. And here is why.- but I can't find any good reasons for why he is mafia.
On May 16 2014 05:54 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Also, I think yell0w died in the night over me because he was pushing on eden over epishade, and I wasnt sure between epishade and eden who it was.
My read has changed.
##Unvote
##Vote: Eden
That didn't take very long. I'm not convinced you're actually trying to find the last mafia from this display. I'd expect you to be worried about dying regardless of your alignment, but if you really were town I'd expect better effort than this. All I'm getting out of this is that you're desperate not to die, not that you're genuinely scumhunting.
On May 16 2014 07:11 27ninjabunnies wrote:
That's where you are wrong. Dravernor read me as scum, so you have no substantial evidence on me.
Your biggest thing on me is that I began posting less. I've already stated reasons for that. And just because I didn't get shot, doesnt mean anything. Jailkeeper was on me 2 nights in a row, which I was impossible to get shot then, therefore mafia placed their shots elsewhere. As for the other nights, I'm not sure why they didn't kill me. I don't know, because I AM NOT MAFIA. The fact that mafia is pushing on me now, is because they think im an easy ml. IM NOT SO GET OFF OF ME.
I believe there is benefit talking in the night, as I stated before. You can get reads off of people who are likely to die in the night. This is super beneficial for town. The only thing I see here is that eden was all like, "Yeah me too, I'm not gonna say anything in the night either." I don't see how that is beneficial to finding mafia.
And your reasons on Eden are pointless as well.
I honestly think you and Eden are both just pulling nothing out of a magical hat that doesn't even work.
I AM TOWN, you need to reconsider this before you let mafia win.
This is ridiculous.
This first part is factually incorrect, dravernor didn't scumread you beyond the halfway point of D1. Meanwhile she scumread Epishade the whole game and kept fence-sitting about me in her hard reads while softly accusing me or otherwise casting doubt on me with her other posts.
I don't know where that quote comes from, but I never said that. I talked plenty during the nights in this game, I just held back during the last night phase because I wanted to avoid WIFOM circlejerks.
This is a pretty straightforward solution. I'm remotely concerned that I'm still alive here because I've been wrongly townreading Epishade, but here at LYLO he's done nothing to make me think he isn't town. bunnies OTOH has, in my mind, freaked out wildly disproportionately to the actual danger she's facing. There's a full day left to go. Unless she's not planning on being around I don't understand the desperation from a town standpoint. Her reaction is pretty strongly making me think we've got our final mafia in the bag here. I don't see my vote moving at this rate.
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Wow, me trying to get yall to say something, and show you that I am town, and you think I'm mafia from that?!
That is ridiculous. Do you know how to play mafia?!
Of course I'm going to freak out. I AM TOWN. I don't want to get voted on. Sure we have 24 hours (I think?), but the earlier I prove that I am town, the earlier we can lynch the actual REAL MAFIA. So I don't see how my reacting is disproportionate as you say. I am in danger of being lynched. AS TOWN.
And yes, I do plan on being around, so if there are any questions, please ask. But I don't see any of you actually doing something to find the real mafia. All I see is each of you placing your vote on me, then leaving.
Therefore I am bringing up points, I am trying to point out inconsistencies and reads, because this IS A ML.
For one. There's your quote on how you piggy backed off of Epishade saying you weren't going to talk in the night.
On May 14 2014 08:35 Epishade wrote:
I think I'd rather wait until the next day to say what's on my mind guys. I'd rather not give the mafia any reason to target anyone in particular through anything I say. If I die in the night, so be it. I think you guys can figure this out then.
On May 14 2014 21:08 Eden1892 wrote:
Seconding Epishade here. I think it's pretty obvious where my views are anyway, and while I normally support nighttalking I think in this case it's just going to create WIFOM without actually being illuminating.
Also, multiple times where dravernor scumreads me.
On April 29 2014 14:18 dravernor wrote:
I think we've been off to a pretty aggressive start already tbh. I now think I am going to be useless at this game because everyone and no-one looks scummy. I think the top two suspects here in my eyes are Epishade and 27ninjabunnies as they have been pressing and deflecting the most for what looks like an early lynch. But, the game is still young and I don't really know many of you yet, so I could be reading wrong completely.
Then he calls me town but keeps is suspicion on epishade. Then says im back on his scum probably, and fences eden
On May 03 2014 03:11 dravernor wrote:Hello everyone I'm sorry I haven't been around recently. I have been having pretty bad (and unexpected) time management + internet access issues, which is why I haven't really had a chance to post much. I have a lot to catch up on it seems, but I am somewhat surprised that after all the heavy mtamburini talk that Sweetfrost got lynched in the end. Tbh Sweetfrost was never very high up on my list of possible scum, and that was probably because I ddin't get enough out of his posts to make a proper read. In short I am still confused as to why he seemed more suspicious than mtamburini, Yell0w or Epishade. I also noticed I was the only one who voted Epishade. I understandably didn't make a very strong case against him, as I was more contributing to other people's cases than making my own specific case, but I still think he is quite shady (i swear no pun was intended) and none of you seem to think so. Amiko, what are your thoughts on him? You seem to be trying to analyze people the most deeply, so I am interested to hear about why you don't consider him a likely suspect. Am I missing a few posts? It is possible I am given that I have been afk so much. Show nested quote +sqrt: Yeah, you're in this one buddy  - my concern on your play is that although you have developed some players as potential scumreads, I don't see you strongly pushing on those players yet. However, you've been active in the game, and responsive. So, you are not a lynch for me day 1. That said, some of your reads are still weird to me. I thought someone asked this but rereading I was confused- @sqrt: How did you see meat as town? I feel like he posted next to nothing when you read him Epishade: Epishade is less town to me than sqrt or bunnies, but right now I don't think I would want to lynch him. I felt his early defense was reasonable... I feel he focused a little too much time on yell0w, but it seemed fine given that the thread has given so much attention to yell0w. Moving forward, I'd like to see epishade focus tamburini more if tamburini is his highest scumread, I may reevaluate based on how he goes.. Is this content still relevant? Are these still your current reads on these two players? What does everyone think of ahswtini at the moment? I think he made some good points, but I also think he shouldn't have voted Meat because he wasn't around to defend himself or contribute. Sure he hasn't been a great contributer so far, but we need to give him a chance. Why was ahswtini so desperate to have him lynched day 1? I don't see him having anything to hide by voting Meat, that wouldn't make sense, right? Also, bunnies is coming across as so incredibly town that I am not sure it is genuine. Yes, this is a jump back on my previous decision about her, but only because she has been unfaltering recently to a degree that I am wondering if she is just REALLY good at blending in? Amiko too. No one seems to have questioned him much recently. Everyone just accepts the two of them as straight cut town. I don't think you're mafia just yet, but you also seem too on-the-ball to be vanilla town. You seem concerned about appearing as town too, which is what i read off of your constant posts regarding reads on people, but I do like that Amiko regularly contributes his thoughts (over sqrt who seems to post a lot but not say much) so much that is is possible for the rest of us to gain some perspective. However, I can't be sure that you're not feeding us bullshit. And yes, I did read this post and I do think it is very helpful that you have been helping so much with opinions and reads. I dunno though, maybe it comes across as you trying too hard? I am also suspicious because from what I am picking up, you seem to have the most influence here, more than our self-proclaimed leader and vigi, mtamburini. @all: Everyone looks up to Amiko and Eden and their reads. Is it good to be reliant on these two people? How do you know you can trust their reads? I'll admit that I am very persuaded by Eden's argument for tamb being sk, and I dislike being so easily persuaded.
And then here
+ Show Spoiler +On May 05 2014 03:23 dravernor wrote:Okay, right, I am here. I made a super long post a few hours ago, but the electricity cut and my post was eaten. The joys of living in a third world country. So both bunnies and tamb got roleblocked? Interesting. I mean, tamb wasn't very subtle about having a role, assuming he has one. Pretty clear target for anyone wanting to roleblock him. Otherwise it could all just be a clever ruse to draw us off his scent. In this scenario, let us assume tamb is actually vigi, like he claimed. Could bunnies be sk if she isn't mafia herself? I mean, she was so towny that we all just went with her, because she was providing so much information. Her, Amiko and Eden are our primary read sources this game, and one of them is already gone. I am still really lost with how to read everyone. Yell0w too, and from the looks of it ritoky feels the same way: Show nested quote +Roller coaster: - yell0w - Null - basically for me fluctuates from town to mafia with every post. some I read and it is like, you're mafia; then others I read and he's town. my most recent read on him is that he is a townie who was just playing bad, but I am sure he will post again and that will change. maybe I just can't read this guy. This is exactly how I feel about him too. I don't really have any further contribution to that. sqrt also seems to have been gathering more suspicion from all of us too. Right from day 1 I had a weird feeling about him, and probably because of his posting style. There hasn't really been much development, and I am still left in the dark on most of the people here. dfs seems pretty town to me, also a bit quiet, but I don't disagree with his reads. ritoky also looks town to me, even though he hasn't brought any massive game changing reads or contributions, but he hasn't done anything overtly suspicious. I'm not sure what to think of tamb; ofc this is mostly because of what other people have already suspected of him - this hasn't changed, nor have my views on Epishade. ahswtini and MM1 have been laying it low this game, but I am not entirely convinced they're mafia. They may look suspicious but they haven't done enough to arouse my interest as possible mafia just yet. I think my top scumreads at the moment are Epishade and sqrt. I am on the fence with bunnies (and Yell0w -still) at the moment, her coming out and claiming she has a role all of a sudden and that she was blocked doesn't sound quite right to me. I already expressed suspicion of her in the beginning, withdrew it, and now it is building again. Is it possible she is mafia and shot to kill one of us, but someone roleblocked her? And if there is a sk (who isn't tamb), they were the one who possibly killed Amiko? I don't really know if that can happen in this game. If so, whoever roleblocked bunnies would surely have presented a case against her as to why she is mafia, and surely would have voted to lynch her? Thus far there has not been any substantial case claiming her to be mafia. So I guess by that reasoning, it makes sense that bunnies is town. It also doesn't make sense that a sk would kill Amiko on N1 since he was providing the most information. Unless the sk knew he was onto something and had something to hide? Is it possible that tamb IS infact sk and shot Amiko, then claimed to be gunning for Yell0w? A pretty clever ploy if you ask me. Anyway, it is getting pretty close to voting time and I am still not sure whether to vote for Epishade or sqrt, or the other maybe candidates. Eden is someone I have also considered, but I am not more than 50% convinced he is mafia, and since he is bringing info to us I am unwilling for him to go just yet in the scenario we lose another useful townie. I am well aware I am somewhat useless in contributing new information; it is not one of my strong points, but I at least explain my reasoning behind my thoughts and expand a bit on them. @Yell0w my vote against Epishade was based on other people's thoughts on him previously, and then my small section saying why I agreed with them, but I seemed to be the only one pushing to lynch him. I was then afk for a long time due to electricity and internet issues and came back to find I was the only one who voted him. Yes, it does look suspicious, but I suppose I shouldn't have expected any less after making a post barely pushing him. I still don't have a strong case, based on the fact that I find it very difficult to determine what does and doesn't look scummy in a forum based game. I also somehow thought playing mafia would be less time consuming than it really is. @everyone: Just consider my possible scenario in which bunnies is a non town role and tamb is sk after all. My 'most likely' scum list right now, as I said above : Epishade and/or sqrt. On the fence : bunnies, tamb, Yell0w, maaaaybe Eden Don't have much of an opinion on yet, but probably town: ritoky, Meat, dfs, ahswtini
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EPT
