EPTThis comes off as a useless question to me that anybody in this game should be able to answer.
[N][M] Normal Ass Normal Game - Page 28
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OmniEulogy
Canada6591 Posts
This comes off as a useless question to me that anybody in this game should be able to answer. | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On April 17 2014 05:09 OmniEulogy wrote: FT I'm pretty sure everybody in this game should know how Koshi and Kush feel about me at this point. Koshi and I have like two pages of this game entirely focused on conversations between ourselves which started and ended in him calling me scum and Kush has said he thinks im town in like three different posts. This comes off as a useless question to me that anybody in this game should be able to answer. Current thoughts are not always identical to past thoughts. | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
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mderg
Germany1740 Posts
On April 17 2014 04:57 ObviousOne wrote: Kush giving me the town boner as of his return this second half. Thank fuck we have a replacement, hello vivax please explain why I am on your POE or what you didn't like about me. mderg's main, perhaps only, focus is a vig claim / scumminess of claiming a near-verifable role D1? That's... concerning, he's getting my vote for now. No reason to be pushing to lynch blue claims unless there's a cc. He's even sticking with it despite talking to others and defending his position which, with a tiny bit of critical thought should be an intractable one. ##vote: mderg @FT: Koshi reads town to me only because he's all over the place and active. I'm more familiar with his "go forth and do work for me" town-meta that I think he uses in themed games but I'm not as aware of his regular town-game meta. My distant memory from back when Titanic 1 was a thing was that his scum game was pretty focused, but I'm bad with the memory thing sometimes so if you have something contradictory that would be useful today I'd like to see that. Did you even read my posts? The claim is the one thing that makes Skan look less scummy. The claim was never my focus, it was everything besides that. I´m also having a hard time understanding the rest of the paragraph about me. Would it be possible to rephrase that? | ||
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OmniEulogy
Canada6591 Posts
On April 17 2014 05:12 FirmTofu wrote: Current thoughts are not always identical to past thoughts. with nothing to add to them they normally are. I'm just wondering why you want to talk about the same subject for another 2 pages instead of actually moving forward. | ||
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OmniEulogy
Canada6591 Posts
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On April 17 2014 05:15 mderg wrote: Did you even read my posts? The claim is the one thing that makes Skan look less scummy. The claim was never my focus, it was everything besides that. I´m also having a hard time understanding the rest of the paragraph about me. Would it be possible to rephrase that? Any potential vigilante situation is self-solving. Either a shot is called and made, called a missed, not called and claimed later, or never called but the vigilante dies. Giving any amount of effort towards discussing how much you do or don't believe it and arguing about it or using it to defend someone before any of those events happen is ridiculous. So to say it another way; having a read on a player solely for their power claim is ridiculous because we know that mafia can fake claim, we know that a power role who claims early can get their role blocked, they can be simply shot, and other corner cases where it leads into some kind of big play (which I would discount but in the interests of trying to be thorough I add it here). So if he's actually blue then you pushing for his lynch is pointless endeavour for anyone thinking with a town mindset. With so few potential power roles in a normal game (something you may not be aware of). You can just accept for one day that he's got something useful to contribute outside of his lack of conversational contribution and focus on real lynch candidate possibilities instead until it can be established he's lying or he is caught in a sure-fire situation where he knows something that he shouldn't. That is why I think your vote is wasted and you've given him the possibility of being town for his role but you refuse to accept what that means for the overarching scheme of the game when you pursue him as a potential lynch candidate. | ||
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Vivax
21952 Posts
On April 17 2014 05:05 mderg wrote: I´d like to know the reasoning for Cav, thrawn and OTW. To me Cav is null, thrawn is slightly scummy and OTW seems like town. Nice, that's the reaction I expected from a townie. You get townie points. I found the reaction Cav displayed towards OTW townie: I have three posts and you're scumreading me off them. That doesn't make any sense. I'd actually argue, but you have no real information to determine my alignment one way or the other. (Though, in all fairness, I have been somewhat inactive.) It's firm, it's not apologetic, it's reasonable, aligns with my thoughts. When I see a dude not posting much about the game, I'd rather ask him about something ("Hey read this dude and tell me plz") and not simply point to him as possible scum cause he's not done much. Solving the game also involves finding townies, not only pointing to possible scum based on little things. That is what scum does, which is also the reason I'm suspicious of OTW, looking over his posts I see quite the reluctance to clear people. Additionally he simply asked me about my list of reads and said "Elaborate", that could easily display a lack of his own opinions. Ad thrawn: He's lurky as scum. Here he seems reasnably active and calls stuff out he finds scummy, while at the same time doing some simple conversation about other stuff without trying to look tryhard. There are also things that bug me however and it's the fact that he is kinda focusing on little things rather than the overall picture (on kush and mderg, but I can't tell if it's simply his own way of finding scum) , and the thing with FT's post he simply skipped over, explanation pending. I'd actually rather put thrawn as a townread in parentheses for now. | ||
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Vivax
21952 Posts
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mderg
Germany1740 Posts
On April 17 2014 05:39 Vivax wrote: Mderg can you tell me why you think OTW is town? Because he´s pretty much all over the place and every read is has a basis, not that I agree with everything he said. In general this doesn´t seem scummy to me but rather something a town player would do. | ||
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Vivax
21952 Posts
On April 17 2014 05:44 mderg wrote: Because he´s pretty much all over the place and every read is has a basis, not that I agree with everything he said. In general this doesn´t seem scummy to me but rather something a town player would do. Can you specify what you agree and disagree with? | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On April 17 2014 04:54 OneThousandWords wrote: A mafia's objective is to blend into town and the best way to do that is contribute. When you are mafia it is harder to contribute because psychologically you know all the alignments and it becomes harder to point out things that are scummy. That is why it is a standard mafia tactic to mimic what other people have said previously in the thread. This feigns contribution and makes themselves look good because people seemingly forget what other people had said previously. Thrawn does this with me and mderg. I write about mderg's first post having no conclusions and he mimics it but the caveat is that he calls me scum without actually referencing my contributions, in fact, he ignores them entirely. Furthermore, everytime someone knew is brought up he calls them scummy eving going so far as to call someone scummy before reading them! You're probably not aware of this but the general way games play out on this site is that there's a ton of spam and games get really big really fast, like 40-80 pages easily almost every game in recent memory with 40 feeling pretty barren. It's easy to assume that lurking (in this case, the game is slow so lurking is relative by degrees instead of by pages of filter) means people are scummy. To hold the default position that people are scummy in a game where the page-count is still lower than the average age of the players is not that far out of the box here. Furthermore you're going to be upset when you find out that this is exactly what a town kush will do sometimes (X IS SCUMMY OK NO WAIT LET ME GO READ THE THREAD) so your preconceived notions for how the game is supposed to play out might be a little different than what you're going to experience here given the variations of style and inclusiveness of players from all different backgrounds. If you couldn't vote for thrawn, who would you vote for and why? I personally don't think thrawn has found his stride in a game as "slow" as this to be able to get a grasp on him for certain, but he's trying to clean up the stragglers in his own way which speaks in his favor to me. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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mderg
Germany1740 Posts
On April 15 2014 21:42 OneThousandWords wrote: Djagulingu, you describe your town play as: In this game you have already called 2 people scum for supposed scum slips. Am I to assume that you have now 180° on your own meta so quickly? This doesn't look very systematic to me, it looks like the complete opposite. You jump on people and call them scum without much basis and state that you are helping the town by making a pro-town atmosphere of sophisticated discussion when, instead, you are steering people in a very specific direction on a point of view that seems entirely skewed on pushing an agenda. I don´t agree with this case on Djagulingu. It´s purely based on Djagu´s self meta which I think is always difficult to base a case on. + Show Spoiler + On April 16 2014 07:23 OneThousandWords wrote: I also find it odd how Cavalinho has chosen to respond to posts in the thread. His chose his first posts of the game to say hi and that he isn't going to comment on anything because nothing has happened. I find this in and of itself strange. When people first start the game they usually start to converse with people or even talk about policy, however, Cavalinho decided not to have any part of the conversation whatsoever. Now, understandably we do not know the circumstances and I'd like to hear more from him but then he returns to the thread after quite some time to post, well, nothing. His only real post is a post to jump on discrediting OmniEulogy (whether justly or not). I find this an odd behavioural tidbit because IMO this is not a townies mindset. I agree with this case on cav + Show Spoiler + On April 16 2014 23:54 OneThousandWords wrote: This is categorically false. Where do I state that I don't believe he could be vig? Also, I've seen the word smurf thrown around. If it's used in the same way as MOBA games then you're wrong, I was invited here by a friend from another mafia site. Here is wherein the real problem lies. All the people that you seemingly "like" for things that they have done have quite simply started from posts that I have made. Thrawn's main contributions this game: This is his first contribution into the thread other than the non-sensical replies to longer posts earlier in his filter and it's just piggybacking off a post that I made earlier in the thread here. This is a relatively easy thing to do as mafia because: A) It lets people appear to be contributing. B) If worded differently but similar it enables people to pocket the other people that made the original case because they have seemingly similar reads. C) To the people that didn't read it they are fooled into believing it is original content. Now, on it's own I know this is not enough, however, thrawn's behaviour is not your typical town behaviour! He flits from one lynch to the next with little explanation. He practically wants to lynch half the game! I've mentioned Mderg before. Here he wants to lynch Kush. + Show Spoiler + On April 16 2014 17:53 thrawn2112 wrote: same for me. becasue of this post He wants to lynch ME which is somewhat of a kick in the teeth seeing as he is the one that is sheeping MY point of view on mderg. What could be the reason for this? Is he not reading what i've written? Nope. It's something about skan and nothing about the actual player that he got his read from. + Show Spoiler + On April 16 2014 19:26 thrawn2112 wrote: 100words is probably my 2nd lynch choice. i almost voted for him instead of that other guy. what stood out to me is how his main talking point was skan's claim and how pointless it was to talk about the claim yet he did nothing but talk about the claim koshi i'll fully read and respond to that meta when i wake up. too tired/tipsy for that right now. but i did skim one of the links and I notice that he likes to argue about stuff without thinking about alignments. so my preliminary answer to you question is yes, the meta does sorta make me uncertain about lnyching him. He wants to policy lynch an AFK player who is talking about nonsense (Alakaslam). He wants to also look into OE who he also says is scummy before even looking into him. This is not what I expect a typical person to do. Usually it's: I'll look into a player ----> Here is why he is scummy. Thrawn's view is. This is a somewhat scummy player ----> Going to go look into him after I've already made my decision about whether he is scummy or not! In conclusion thrawn is a person who, while talking a lot, seems to be a person of fleeting wishes. He is keen to hop onto anyone he can push a lynch onto. He hasn't "read the thread" and pushes others reads as his own. He calls the person he got his case for on his vote choice scum based on early conversation in a time where nothing was happening. ##Vote Thrawn2112 Here I agree on the part about thrawns first contribution being the case on me is scummy. I don´t think thrawn was sheeping OTW, though. | ||
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mderg
Germany1740 Posts
On April 17 2014 05:36 ObviousOne wrote: Any potential vigilante situation is self-solving. Either a shot is called and made, called a missed, not called and claimed later, or never called but the vigilante dies. Giving any amount of effort towards discussing how much you do or don't believe it and arguing about it or using it to defend someone before any of those events happen is ridiculous. So to say it another way; having a read on a player solely for their power claim is ridiculous because we know that mafia can fake claim, we know that a power role who claims early can get their role blocked, they can be simply shot, and other corner cases where it leads into some kind of big play (which I would discount but in the interests of trying to be thorough I add it here). So if he's actually blue then you pushing for his lynch is pointless endeavour for anyone thinking with a town mindset. With so few potential power roles in a normal game (something you may not be aware of). You can just accept for one day that he's got something useful to contribute outside of his lack of conversational contribution and focus on real lynch candidate possibilities instead until it can be established he's lying or he is caught in a sure-fire situation where he knows something that he shouldn't. That is why I think your vote is wasted and you've given him the possibility of being town for his role but you refuse to accept what that means for the overarching scheme of the game when you pursue him as a potential lynch candidate. Doesn´t change the fact that Skan looks scummy to me but it definitely speaks against lynching him on day 1. ##vote: FirmTofu Because his analysis on Skan and Djagu doesn´t say anything and I think his case on OTW is bad. I especially don´t like this post: On April 17 2014 05:04 FirmTofu wrote: @OTW Okay, so thrawn is repeating a lot of things previously stated in thread. This is a valid point. However, I don't see this as necessarily scummy. Town players repeat points too and this is a perfectly valid one to reiterate. You'll need better points to convince me thrawn is scum. Also, your recent responses to Vivax and I are not helping your case. In this post he gives OTW´s case some credit. Before this post he said that the case was awful. This change of his opinion contradicts the vote on OTW right after the post. | ||
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Vivax
21952 Posts
PoE AND posts like this: On April 16 2014 03:46 ObviousOne wrote: I wouldn't say that his activity is the only way to read him and it's subjective anyhow, I basically caught him through POE and that was the best reason I could come up with in Toy Story, he exhibited both behaviors there so I'm going to use the guideline until it no longer works (i.e. he steps up and plays the game). He's a policy lynch because I have no idea what the fuck he is saying 99% of the time. He seems to have the goal of being unreadable in every game he plays and that puts him in my "ok to policy lynch" group because I'd hate to lose to him (again, lol). re: thrawn, how would you suggest I eliminate people from the lynch based on their behavior if not on some basic first post instinct when the game is like 20 minutes in? I've opened lines of communication when in the past things have been not so great between us, unless I recall incorrectly. The last game we played together I wanted to lynch him and he ended up being town, so I'm trying a new approach so I don't immediately put him in a category labeled "people I want to lynch because I hate" Gotta re-read after I get some coffee in me. Only other thought I had for the moment is I didn't immediately want to lynch Koshi which is standing out to me. I think he's more actively participating (rather than posting for what looks like the sake of posting) than in other games I've read/played with him in them. Maybe that's some kind of themed-level-Koshi and I haven't seen a normal ass game Koshi in recent memory? Let's split this into three text blocks. First block is a huge answer about Kaslam. That's ok, that's not my beef, kush asked you a question. The second block is defensive in my opinion. What is your intention here since according to kush you townread thrawn? Btw point me to what you're replying cause thrawn didn't even ask you anything O_o (I don't think I've missed such a thing while looking for it). The third block is meh. Says something semi-conclusive, ends up with a question to yourself. You still got trouble getting a conclusion about Koshi? On April 17 2014 06:00 mderg wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 15 2014 21:42 OneThousandWords wrote: Djagulingu, you describe your town play as: In this game you have already called 2 people scum for supposed scum slips. Am I to assume that you have now 180° on your own meta so quickly? This doesn't look very systematic to me, it looks like the complete opposite. You jump on people and call them scum without much basis and state that you are helping the town by making a pro-town atmosphere of sophisticated discussion when, instead, you are steering people in a very specific direction on a point of view that seems entirely skewed on pushing an agenda. I don´t agree with this case on Djagulingu. It´s purely based on Djagu´s self meta which I think is always difficult to base a case on. + Show Spoiler + On April 16 2014 07:23 OneThousandWords wrote: I also find it odd how Cavalinho has chosen to respond to posts in the thread. His chose his first posts of the game to say hi and that he isn't going to comment on anything because nothing has happened. I find this in and of itself strange. When people first start the game they usually start to converse with people or even talk about policy, however, Cavalinho decided not to have any part of the conversation whatsoever. Now, understandably we do not know the circumstances and I'd like to hear more from him but then he returns to the thread after quite some time to post, well, nothing. His only real post is a post to jump on discrediting OmniEulogy (whether justly or not). I find this an odd behavioural tidbit because IMO this is not a townies mindset. I agree with this case on cav + Show Spoiler + On April 16 2014 23:54 OneThousandWords wrote: This is categorically false. Where do I state that I don't believe he could be vig? Also, I've seen the word smurf thrown around. If it's used in the same way as MOBA games then you're wrong, I was invited here by a friend from another mafia site. Here is wherein the real problem lies. All the people that you seemingly "like" for things that they have done have quite simply started from posts that I have made. Thrawn's main contributions this game: This is his first contribution into the thread other than the non-sensical replies to longer posts earlier in his filter and it's just piggybacking off a post that I made earlier in the thread here. This is a relatively easy thing to do as mafia because: A) It lets people appear to be contributing. B) If worded differently but similar it enables people to pocket the other people that made the original case because they have seemingly similar reads. C) To the people that didn't read it they are fooled into believing it is original content. Now, on it's own I know this is not enough, however, thrawn's behaviour is not your typical town behaviour! He flits from one lynch to the next with little explanation. He practically wants to lynch half the game! I've mentioned Mderg before. Here he wants to lynch Kush. + Show Spoiler + On April 16 2014 17:53 thrawn2112 wrote: same for me. becasue of this post He wants to lynch ME which is somewhat of a kick in the teeth seeing as he is the one that is sheeping MY point of view on mderg. What could be the reason for this? Is he not reading what i've written? Nope. It's something about skan and nothing about the actual player that he got his read from. + Show Spoiler + On April 16 2014 19:26 thrawn2112 wrote: 100words is probably my 2nd lynch choice. i almost voted for him instead of that other guy. what stood out to me is how his main talking point was skan's claim and how pointless it was to talk about the claim yet he did nothing but talk about the claim koshi i'll fully read and respond to that meta when i wake up. too tired/tipsy for that right now. but i did skim one of the links and I notice that he likes to argue about stuff without thinking about alignments. so my preliminary answer to you question is yes, the meta does sorta make me uncertain about lnyching him. He wants to policy lynch an AFK player who is talking about nonsense (Alakaslam). He wants to also look into OE who he also says is scummy before even looking into him. This is not what I expect a typical person to do. Usually it's: I'll look into a player ----> Here is why he is scummy. Thrawn's view is. This is a somewhat scummy player ----> Going to go look into him after I've already made my decision about whether he is scummy or not! In conclusion thrawn is a person who, while talking a lot, seems to be a person of fleeting wishes. He is keen to hop onto anyone he can push a lynch onto. He hasn't "read the thread" and pushes others reads as his own. He calls the person he got his case for on his vote choice scum based on early conversation in a time where nothing was happening. ##Vote Thrawn2112 Here I agree on the part about thrawns first contribution being the case on me is scummy. I don´t think thrawn was sheeping OTW, though. If you agree with his case on Cava why does he stay null for you when you ask me about the reads? Be honest, did you just go look for OTW's cases when I asked you? | ||
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mderg
Germany1740 Posts
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Vivax
21952 Posts
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mderg
Germany1740 Posts
On April 17 2014 06:20 Vivax wrote: If you agree with his case on Cava why does he stay null for you when you ask me about the reads? Be honest, did you just go look for OTW's cases when I asked you? pretty simple: What Cavs posted after the case doesn´t seem scummy. I didn´t look for his cases, I only needed to find them in his filter to provide quotes. Now I´m going to sleep. | ||
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