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I'm off to swim practice as well, back in 5 hours
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On April 04 2014 08:06 mderg wrote:Something I noticed rereading sentinels filter: Show nested quote +I'm in agreement with prplhz's idea to get rid of unreadable players first because it allows more information for later days in the game. So get rid of 3/4, which I consider unreadable. Or I guess if I'm the one specifically making the reads from my position in group 3, then 4. Show nested quote +I'm fine w/ 3 and I don't mind 1 being early as well because like LSB said it's a good jumping-off point for moving the discussion later on Pretty inconsistent play by sentinel, if you ask me. Why would you want a cell you have figured out to be up early on, if you think unreadable cells should go first?
You realize my cell is first? I'd rather get my honest thoughts out while I'm still alive, and then it won't be swept under the rug by the time Cell 1 is first.
Furthermore, where are your timestamps? Why did you not use the quote button? I like arguments that properly cite their sources.
First quote: April 01 2014 20:30 GMT (+00:00) (first hour of Day 1)
Second quote: April 03 2014 21:59 GMT (+00:00) (1 hour before end of Day 1)
Third quote: April 03 2014 22:29 GMT (+00:00) (30 minutes before end of Day 1)
You're telling me I can't change my mind in 48 hours, especially as people give insight/reasoning about the setup and help me think in different ways?
On April 04 2014 08:58 Tehpoofter wrote:
So....
1) Wtf with drunk rayn that was.... something and now puts us in a shit spot with them going third. We need to get both these ones right (at least 1) or that day is going to be really really weird. Geript were you right about rayn?
2) Sorry I didn't vote I thoguht I voted before bed but I'm bad and missed it I will vote today... starting that off now...
## Vote: Coagulation
Palmer has seemed town to me with his posting regarding cell 3 shit fest yesterday, Sentinal Is a bit lesser of a town read I have liked most of his posts except the one where he was talking to me where he was making some points that didn't make a whole lot of sense. I'd like to have a dialog with you sent if you're around.
Also to those who know Coag does he typically give up like this if hes town?
I can fully address this tomorrow if you don't mind. Tonight I have to slam out and send along a full English paper within the next 90 minutes.
Luckily if there's one thing mafia helps tremendously with it's the ability to come up with convincing arguments in very short periods of time
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Also shame, I thought rayn could break his Titanic record if he kept it up
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On April 04 2014 11:46 Coagulation wrote:
hes wiffle waffling and super over defensive and hes upset rayn who is cinfirmed scum quit. ezpz
Well, since you're here and obviously at least half-reading the thread, mind expanding a little bit on that thought?
##Vote: Coagulation
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On April 04 2014 11:56 gumshoe wrote:
FYI I'm using Coag as a vote warmer for now as I really do hope hes scum, but yeah, not rulling out Plamar, only sent seems clean to me.
This as well. I'll get to both Palmar and poofter tomorrow.
On April 04 2014 11:52 Coagulation wrote:
ur scum play is pretty obv sent sorry but im not answering ur questions
Well, here are some questions for you to not-answer, by which I mean not-give me more than a single line about each:
- Why is rayn scum?
- Why am I scum?
- Where am I wiffle-waffling? Are you talking about mderg's three quotes that are 48 hours apart?
- How much of the thread have you read?
On April 04 2014 11:50 Coagulation wrote:
votes me before i even respond cAause he aint lookin to read me just kill
- What did you want to respond about? You didn't take too long to read, your filter is extremely short and takes about 5-10 minutes to fully process.
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On April 04 2014 18:08 getmoript wrote:So I couldn't find any more games from UoN other than: Extratctor TrickResistence 3[red] LXIII actually wish I had 2-3 more games at at least 1 more scum game to compare it to. The first major thing I noticed that's different from the town games Sen'ts posts have been is that in both of those games a large amount of his filter is short posts, mostly 1-2 line posts with very few if any big posts. Conversely, as scum he has these very large almost summary posts. From a purely perusal standpoint without actually reading much into it, I just want to lynch Sent.
So you want to lynch me because I make big posts? lol
The reason I didn't post much in Resistance is because I was on my phone for nearly the whole game:
On December 30 2013 11:15 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Ooooh ok.
Well, guys, I'll be here for the voting deadline, but I won't be around for the majority of the nightphase. I'm leaving on vacation in two days, and I'll be phoneposting for the entirety of Day 2 and the first bit of Day 3. I'll have a lot of time on my hands in the evenings and I'll still be able to keep track of this game since there's only nine of us, but just as a forewarning.
On January 01 2014 00:01 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:I'm on the road now, phone posting for the next 4 days 
I can't make huge cases on my phone because the screen is way too small for me to format quotes and all that stuff.
Extractor was played simultaneously meaning I had the same problems.
Specifically, as town Sent seems to flow with the thread more if that makes any sense; ie. he interacts with it as it's going on. Where as as scum, he tries to lump everything together into one coherent point that people won't really talk about.
I'd say gumshoe was and is being talked about a lot, as is all of Cell 1. I'm simply offering my two cents.
When I was reading Sent's big post on Gumshoe, that really got to bothering me. Specifically in how differently the points were laid out and how illogical they are. Show nested quote +While going for unconfirmed scum first is fishy (and scummy), what stood out to me was gum's resistance to providing information further within the quote. This is looking like town play, just very bad town play - if I was a scum in gumshoe's position I wouldn't want to encourage rayn to make red reads on me. I'd actually be paying a lot more attention to what rayn is saying and trying to get either him or Steve into the frying pan. As town, gum can be full of hubris. As scum, it's attracting way too much attention, and someone in the QT would have shut him up. I do agree with steve that the other part of that quote is pretty scummy thinking though The first thing that really bothers me about this part of this post is how it doesn't go anywhere at all. He's 100% leaving his options open for calling Gumshoe both town and scum. Even more so, I hate how he comes up with his townread on gumshoe, "welp gumshoe as scum clearly wouldn't try to attact this much attention from town rayn. Instead he'd just try and push Rayn over the side or have Rayn bury Steve." But this is like exactly what gumshoe was doing, Gumshoe came up with a case on rayn; when said case went south, he screamed "Pants on Fire, I'm not scum because Steveling exists." This specifically bothers me because this looks like Sent just wants to create any reason to call Gumshoe town and move on. (Forgive me if I'm wrong on the timing of when Sent posted this but I'm not up to double checking that)
Did you read what you just quoted? I'm saying that gum is town, here is what town gum and scum gum would have done, and showing the more probable case is that gum is town. That's actually what my whole post was about.
I called gum town because when I looked at his play it was harder for me to understand why a scum would explicitly say "I don't care about your reads and I'm ignoring you" to one of the most sheep-able players in the game, and make himself that huge of a target. In my mind at least it makes a lot more sense if gum is simply a cavalier misguided townie.
Rest of filter seems to simply reinforce notions he had before. Gum's got one thing going for him and that's consistency to a fault: he's picked some key points (don't be 100% transparent, rayn is scum, steve is town, geript is a pretty towny player), and stuck to them, to the point where I'm wondering if he's simply using his earlier play to justify his later notions. I guess that's a bad-town thing to do, especially since he really can't hide an ally by putting himself into the spotlight.
Another thing that specifically bothered me here is that he's writing off Gumshoe as town for his consistency. People's reads never changing, moving or evolving tends to be seen as a scum trait not a bad town tell. Koshi specifically brought it up as a reason for suspecting me/cav. Here he's again leaving his options open for calling Gumshoe scum for his consistency while managing to call him town.[/quote]
I don't understand how sticking to your guns no matter what happens, and basically tunneling, is not a bad town trait. Sentinel]Here's a game where I did exactly that as town. It didn't go well, but I was still town.
Palmer. You don't have to read his other filters, but seriously look at them. It's almost obvious how differently Sent posts as scum and as town. I hate to say that I agree with Coag here but I actually think Coag's right on this one.
##unvote
##vote [UoN]Sentinel
It's 5 am here and I'm really sleepy, I'll get back to working on prplhz.
I'm leaving my options open because I'm not 100% sure gum is town. Look at all the points I made - gum's behavior in X Y and Z makes it look like town play but Y and Z are also trademarks of scum play. I simply picked bad town because it made more sense, but I could be wrong, and here's why.
I still love how you think I'm scum because I'm posting intelligently for once.
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I'm lining up a case on Steve's case on me.
I also just realized that I can get myself lynched to confirm myself town. But with scum only needing 3 to win, that won't do any good. Yet.
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Also Steve did you get a red read on all three of your cases, with Palmar being the least scummy and Coag the most?
Where have we seen that before
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On April 05 2014 04:03 Steveling wrote:
Is there something wrong with that or is it more meta garbage?
Nah, that's not actually a scummy thing considering we're talking about Cell 3.
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Not just a defense, I have some thoughts I'd like to share as well.
On April 04 2014 21:45 Holyflare wrote:
well they make perfect sense seeing as 1 of the players is modconfirmed and the other one is modkilled
and... oh wait yeh rayn CLAIMED SCUM ~_~_~_~_~_~_~_
When did Steve become modconfirmed?
On April 04 2014 20:25 Steveling wrote:Sentinel makes it absolutely crystal clear that he can't read palmar before even a quarter of the first day passes. Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 04:02 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 02 2014 03:57 Koshi wrote:On April 02 2014 03:44 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Also, why do I have to get stuck with Palmar  I don't understand this. Explain the not happy face. Palmar is probably the player I have the hardest time reading in this game. It's going to be hard trying to figure the scum in my own cell, even. Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 04:13 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 02 2014 04:05 prplhz wrote:On April 02 2014 04:02 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 02 2014 03:57 Koshi wrote:On April 02 2014 03:44 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Also, why do I have to get stuck with Palmar I don't understand this. Explain the not happy face. Palmar is probably the player I have the hardest time reading in this game. It's going to be hard trying to figure the scum in my own cell, even. seriously? it's 50/50, right? how can that be so worrying? Because lynching by coinflip is such a popular strategy on this site, right? As a member of group 3 I still like that order because I don't have to play for a long time, although Coag's not too unpredictable, kush you can usually see once you wade past all the bullshit, and Palmar... I'll think of something. Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 04:57 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 02 2014 04:43 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 04:41 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 02 2014 04:33 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Sentinel what i want to know is do you want to lynch into your group or not and why.
Do you consider yourself unreadable?
~rayn I consider myself perfectly readable. I am town, thus I know that I am town. I consider myself pretty easy to read by others, if I had to guess what my town/scum features would be, it's that I get a lot more frustrated as town. In Noir I was a lot more logical and active than usual because I had 5 people to calm me down and streamline my behavior. With town I either get mad and stop caring (Nuclear Winter), or tunnel someone because I can't be arsed to do anything else (Roulette). So what's the problem? Palmar is also perfectly readable, if not to you to many other people. Regardless of if Coag is readable or not your group should be easy to figure out. If you are town why do you want to get yourself "out of the game"? ~rayn Ups and downs. D2 I'll be a very happy person. If you are in the "many other people", how does town Palmar differ from scum Palmar? In all my experience with him all I've seen is a monolith You understand sentinel that in a mafia game you have to provide reads, no matter what, no matter your alignment.
This implies that it's not scummy since scum have to provide reads no matter what?
And you're wrong, I can get mislynched and piss everyone off, that's an option too. Smurf, Roulette, almost Hashtag... I probably won't do that though. I'm trying to be a little more towny for once and actually participating.
Yet you take that stance towards the strongest player in your cell almost before the game even starts.
Definitely scum points here, you could be trying to get in his good side and give a good excuse to sheep him if he false reads your cell.
You're telling me I'd want to sheep someone who has a 50% chance of being scum? I wouldn't do that at the beginning of Day 1 where I have literally nothing to go on. If I'm scum, I'll at least wait until one of my cellmates becomes more competent than the other, in this case Palmar over Coag, and then sheep him later.
He agrees with me on an early dive on gumshoe. Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 05:20 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:First off, gumshoe because his filter came up first: Steve dived him here which I'd like to somewhat expound on. The conversation he brings up: On April 02 2014 09:34 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:03 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 08:56 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm. ~rayn "Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play. So your honest opinion is that you don't need to give away your alignment to anyone but everyone needs to do so to you? Also another question. We have 2 imaginary groups X and Y. In group X there is confimed mafia. In group Y there are 3 people who are all really hard to read. Which of the following scenarios in your opinion results more likely in 2 scumlynches: 1) Lynch the confirmed scum in group X, and have 96 hours to figure out the mafia in group Y, or 2) Figure out the mafia in group Y in 48 hours, then lynch the confirmed scum in group X ? I have answered every question directed at me so far, but I feel no need to divulge information that might jeopardize my efforts to trip up scum unless I don't have much choice I. The matter. Especially when it comes to the person whose my default top scum read. As for your question, 2' because confirmed scum isn't going anywhere. They can be literally killed at any time and I rather lynch question marks while everyone is still invested in the game. I have taken on this mind set strictly because the setup holds no surprises. If I'm scum, why would I champion something like that if my buddy gets lynched by day3 anyways? What do I gain aside from towns ire? While going for unconfirmed scum first is fishy (and scummy), what stood out to me was gum's resistance to providing information further within the quote. This is looking like town play, just very bad town play - if I was a scum in gumshoe's position I wouldn't want to encourage rayn to make red reads on me. I'd actually be paying a lot more attention to what rayn is saying and trying to get either him or Steve into the frying pan. As town, gum can be full of hubris. As scum, it's attracting way too much attention, and someone in the QT would have shut him up. I do agree with steve that the other part of that quote is pretty scummy thinking though. He then throws a light punch at me Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 08:32 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Why wouldn't Steve have a definite red target in his own cell? The same player that basically refused to comment on his cell is asking me why I can't make up my mind in our cell so early in the game, when even now, even after ryankoshi's modkill people are not sure of his alignment, lol. Double standards much sentinel? More scumpoints for this.
Palmar asked this question too later on.
Now while I concede that I didn't look at my cell too carefully, you were scummier than me in this regard - you had two people to choose from, and read them both as town. I don't think you're scum because you can't make up your mind, but rather you read one as slightly town, read the other as complete town, and then didn't ask yourself any questions about why your reads are like that.
I had one guy who I had to judge objectively because I had nobody to compare him with. Now that Coag is here I am going to compare them, but first I have to catch up.
Later Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 11:17 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
A general impression from a quick skim of the 13 pages of roshi's filter:
If I had to distinguish between town rayn and scum rayn, is that rayn plays scum like CNN - seemingly factual, but carefully omitting anything that doesn't support it, and shifting away the attention before anyone starts asking "why?"
The case on gumshoe seems a bit myopic but legitimate, something I'd see coming from yamato more than rayn. Sure it's very detailed and sourced but it's almost to the point where rayn's letting his frustration with gum lead his argument instead of the other way around. More Fox than CNN. He says raynkoshi's gumshoe case is so good and flawless that they have to be scum? what? I like how he re-validates ryankoshi's legit points about gum but again he doesn't take a stance. Fun fact, towards neither of the two. And this was supposed to be a brief summary of his 13page filter dive on rayn, nice results sentinel, lmao. Show nested quote +
I called rayn town in this one. You can tell because I called his case "legitimate" and "not so much CNN, which I consider scummy" Would you like me to sign each of my analyses in big bold letters proclaiming THIS PERSON IS TOWN or THIS PERSON LOOKS SCUMMY TO ME from now on?
Later he conveniently takes ryankoshi's side on a silly meta argument. Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 12:16 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 03 2014 11:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:Yeah in a situation where he actually should have been considered confirmed town. 120 pages into the game, not 24h into D1.... rofl Sentinel. Go look at Survivor series. ~rayn I'll actually concede that one to you. Again, so flimsy, so immaterial, so neutral.
Do you want me to defend a point where the evidence is clearly against me? I thought rayn was slightly town before this and I think rayn is slightly town after this.
I post my thoughts and the best I can make of them. I don't make rash judgments, at least at the start; I consider both a town perspective and scum perspective, and then I decide which I like better.
Town Steve doesn't make much sense at this point in the game: Here is your read on rayn:
On April 03 2014 01:08 Steveling wrote:
I read your mayor post raynkoshi.
Honestly you are probably my most town read so I don't have a problem.
As for me I don't have a clue about mayor'ing and stuff.
Do we want scum or town mayor in this setup?
Then the whole "swear on my life" thing happens, you rage a little, and return with a case attacking rayn in every single possible regard. Here is my problem with this: Frustrated people do stupid things. That would even explain the tunneling - but why rayn of all people?
Gum is the one who created the shitstorm. Gum's comment is directly responsible for what happened and also kept the discussion relatively stupid. Surely there wasn't some point where you stepped back and considered the situation where gum was the scum and rayn was town?
Or is it simply because gum backed you up?
Sentinel's favorite mafia tactic emerges again Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 12:36 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 03 2014 12:19 Tehpoofter wrote:
So I'm really glad that I just read through 20 pages of gum/rayn fighting. Going into it I had a town read on rayn scum on gum and null on steve. Coming out of it gum looks even scummier steve looks scummy and so does rayn tbh. (there has to be 2 towns in each group right?)
Like I could make cases on all of you guys,
GUM: basically to me Rayn's case on gum is really strong he pretends to set some trap that doesn't work (but seems like it would only catch town if it did work) and then calls rayn scum for it. I thought rayn refuted his claim pretty well and answered some questions on it. Balla brought up a good point last night about how gum accussed rayn of doing the same thing he was doing in ignoring steve and being scummy for it. I think gum went into mega defensive mode and just started throwing shit at rayn and rayn did the same until rayn saw gum say he swears hes town. Tell me what scum gum's rationale would be for blatantly ignoring rayn's criticisms when rayn is one of the most sheep-able people on this forum. More sheeping? And you base a read on gum saying that what he did was illogical because sheeping ryan would be the logical thing instead? Da faq
I'm saying scum gum would have no reason to not sheep rayn or at least he wouldn't be so explicit about his actions
And if you think that it wasn't legit sentinel you are basically calling me a retard for doing something so silly, because it would be silly to fake it no matter my alignment.
Later on he says that my anger burst about the oath thing was fake.
Even though he says that, again, he doesn't take a freaking stance. I literally haven't seen that before in any mafia games, xD.
I'm saying everything about the oath was a joke, i.e. stupid and shouldn't be considered seriously. I don't take a stance on it because it's retarded. I'm not calling you a retard, although I question the nerves of everyone involved.
After ryan's and gum's oath thing, I had to examine why ryan did it. I made a case with the points I thought were valid.
Sentinel goes to sleep and his first post opening his day is against my ryan case.
He accuses me that I falsely counted my town reads and that ryan was a bigger towny than me.
Two things are wrong in his syllogism, first, the semantics he explains are firmly applicable to every other mafia player and not only me. Some people had me down as neutral and not as town, that goes for ryan too though, you didn't say that in your argument.
You said that people saw you as town, or if not town, neutral. I criticized this claim. That is all I set out to do and that is all I did.
Second, my main point wasn't that I was more towny than rayn, it was that I was green enough, so that ryan would be scared of me taking gumshoe's side. You didn't address this at all. The case he made against my case(why would a towny do that, instead of providing new thoughts), was pretty big. Here I spoiler it + Show Spoiler +On April 04 2014 05:35 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:I have to leave before deadline, but I'm voting for rayn. Steve's case is fundamentally flawed from the beginning: Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 18:57 Steveling wrote:There's only one question here, why did they do that? I couldn't think of anything until I read multiple posts while filtering regarding the reason that scumryankoshi did what they did and it dawned on me. Here are some tidbits On April 03 2014 07:04 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
To me it looks like Steve doesn't have a concrete scumread, only a strong townread and a neutral read that has to be scum due to process of elimination. On April 03 2014 01:03 mderg wrote:On April 03 2014 00:51 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
mderg,
Could you provide some reads? You entered the thread with a very generic statement. how do you read:
raynpelikonoshi
gumshoe
Steveling Steveling - neutral It seems towny to me that he was unsure about gumshoe when filtering his posts(why would scum be unsure). On April 02 2014 22:28 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 18:15 Steveling wrote:I'm now filtering gumshoe, will be posting one liners as I'm reading through it. Hahahaha, gum <3333, that short description of me you made, haha, that's the gum I remember. Gum immediately gets some town points because he asks for his cellmate for thoughts on me, not random people. I explained my reasoning in my previous post. Ummm, gum defending getript, is weird. I will have to filter getript as well to form a better opinion. Btw I think it's weird not as a scam-defends-scam thing but because getript wasn't making much sense at first glance and I recall gum from our game together as a good player, albeit with some suicidal weird plans but good overall. -town points for that but I will have to check getript as well later. I don't like how he blindly agrees with palmar on mayor'ing him. Pls vote people by their activity and quality of posts not by their reputation. Hmm, gum gets some scam points for the following bit On April 02 2014 09:34 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:03 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 08:56 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm. ~rayn "Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play. So your honest opinion is that you don't need to give away your alignment to anyone but everyone needs to do so to you? Also another question. We have 2 imaginary groups X and Y. In group X there is confimed mafia. In group Y there are 3 people who are all really hard to read. Which of the following scenarios in your opinion results more likely in 2 scumlynches: 1) Lynch the confirmed scum in group X, and have 96 hours to figure out the mafia in group Y, or 2) Figure out the mafia in group Y in 48 hours, then lynch the confirmed scum in group X ? As for your question, 2' because confirmed scum isn't going anywhere. They can be literally killed at any time and I rather lynch question marks while everyone is still invested in the game. I have taken on this mind set strictly because the setup holds no surprises. If I'm scum, why would I champion something like that if my buddy gets lynched by day3 anyways? What do I gain aside from towns ire? Open the quote to read rayns question. Srsly gum, wtf, you shouldn't be making that kind of mistake. You basically proposed to scumhunt and coin flip the first day lynch so IF we get lucky we end up with 2 semi-confirmed scum instead of taking sowing what's ripe in day1. Alright gum about that big meta post you did on rayn. Honestly I think it's bad, you claim he accuses you of scumplay and you quote 3 previous games to prove that somehow the meta works for you? You say that "ey guys, I lied there to scumbait, rayn was falsely accusing me, so I'm doing the same thing here", can't you understand how wrong this is? Rayn has every reason in the world to accuse you in both games. Anyway, I remember that was your playstyle as well in our game together so I won't award you with scumpoints for this but if you keep at it, you are getting on my scumlist, period. You end up this post with Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. Again flawed logic, wouldn't I be the easy target here and not you, a player with 4 pages of filter already? I like your comment on mderg On April 02 2014 13:13 gumshoe wrote:Fun fact, Steve coag and Ceph have not yet started playing really, leaving them out, six people (myself included ) have openly attacked mderg. Geript I'm fairly confident that mderg is the scum in Cell 2. I'm probably going to talk with g more and see what we can dig up from this one, because I'm actually kind of afraid to townread HF after the stunt he pulled in Cultured (which was fucking awesome, btw). Tehpoofter Makes me think Mderg scummy Sentinal town Holy Mderg is mafia in my group btw, that's an easy one. Rayn I noticed this too. I asked Koshi what does he think of this mderg guy and he said it seemed strage how he came in straight up defending the one dude in our group. Too crazy that he instant defended a scumbuddy out of nowhere so if mderg guy ends up being scum gumshoe can die in a fire.
It all fits! Gumshoe Whats your relation to Steveling, whats your general impression of his play and why did you feel the need to answer a question intended for someone else. Do you think Rayn is scum? Balla
We can talk about plenty. How mderg's posts so far have been useless and scummy maybe?
Mderg is a lurky/noobish player, bad play coming out of him deserves due consideration. 50 percent of this games active players (I am not counting lurkers) find this guy scummy in a game where a third of us are scum. Yeah... lynching this guy is not getting us a red flip. I believe there are some scum in this list you made gum. My personal opinion on mderg is that the only town read he has going for himself is when he defended me. He must have seen me posting in the football thread and he just said what he reasoned out. He's inactive or posting fluff, so I'm leaning towards scum for him but the bus'ing against him and the fact he's new made me think otherwise. All in all I'm pretty confused with gum, I'm leaning neutral on him atm, can't make my mind. I love this post BECAUSE it's riddled with uncertainty, this game is filled with people who have perfect reads (cause scum) it's a breath of fresh air to see someone who legit not sure of whose scum in his cell. If steve was scum, he could easily attack me or Rayn, and the way were going at it the non pick might just support his choice whole heartedly. Unfortunately for scum, steve is not just truing to survive his cell, dude be figuring shit out ( : good genuine effort in this post and a stance I feel is most likely town. Steve is cool. On April 02 2014 13:15 Balla24 wrote:On April 02 2014 13:00 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 12:50 Balla24 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 02 2014 12:36 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:22 Balla24 wrote:Gumshoe that case is all over the place :/ it's hard to follow (what alignments was rayn in these quotes?) but on the ending: On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote:
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end. How can you say this is the most damning bit of all yet you literally just did the same thing and went 90% scum on rayn when Steveling has still "yet to open his mouth"? Show nested quote +Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think? I used this to bait Rayn, but the fact that this exists means I thought out what his early lack of commitment might mean. Show nested quote +You and Rayn are firing off in every direction, trusting in your scum hunting skills to avail you I suppose, I on the other hand am pretty much zerod in on you because you are 50 percent scum XD so yeah, I can see why you might say that. Show nested quote +Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. Rayn pressed me into fighting him when I had nothing concrete to call him scum, I tried baiting him and my results were inconclusive so I back off until he pressed me into fighting with him and revealed his true self, also I clearly say repeatedly hes 50 50, therefore worthy of suspicion, but not 100 percent how does any of that reflect the mindset of someone completely set on scum Rayn from the start? . Compare that to this. Show nested quote +So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"?
Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
Show nested quote +Here i present you our first......
Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!!
ezpz
~rayn Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla. I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to. On April 02 2014 12:36 gumshoe wrote:
Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla.
I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to. What are you on about? None of that has anything to do with the contradiction you are displaying. You are calling rayn scum for being confident about his scum read on you even though Steveling has yet to contribute. Yet you are going HAM on rayn, even though steveling has still yet to contribute. It has nothing to do with you attempting to bait rayn. What I want to know is, how can you call rayn scummy for that and say it's the "most damning bit of all" even though you are doing the exact same thing. I backed off of Rayn after the fake case cause his response was fine, but Rayn came back for me and I explained why I lied. He then started hammering me as if he knew I was scum, whereas I was never certain of his alignment, only reasonably suspicious. He has always been far more suspect of me than I of him, I was just trying to read the guy whose in my group. Instead of talking shit Balla, show me proof that I was certain of Rayn's guilt before he was certain of mine and that I was more vocal about it. The order of operations doesn't matter. Steveling has still done nothing, yet you are certain Rayn is mafia, and you call rayn scummy for being certain of you being mafia even though Steveling has done nothing. On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote:
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end. On April 03 2014 12:19 Tehpoofter wrote:
So I'm really glad that I just read through 20 pages of gum/rayn fighting. Going into it I had a town read on rayn scum on gum and null on steve. On April 03 2014 00:59 gumshoe wrote:
Rayn, we agree steve is town, can we agree to vote him mayor? To which ryankoshi answers, On April 03 2014 01:01 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 03 2014 00:59 gumshoe wrote:
Rayn, we agree steve is town, can we agree to vote him mayor? I don't see the point. -Koshi- Ofc, you don't scum, ). Anyway, they also have a town read on me. And finally here is what pieced it all together for me On April 02 2014 19:14 Palmar wrote:On April 02 2014 19:11 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 19:05 Palmar wrote:On April 02 2014 19:04 Steveling wrote:
Can't argue with that.
Anyway, what about you rayn, you made a bold statement accusing gum, you still think the same?
And what do you think about me? I tentatively think rayn is town. He's a bit too angry for my liking but his point on gumshoe looked really town to me. I thought you might be scum then I realized you're in group with gumshoe who I also think is scum, so now I'm just confused. Steve his filterdive of gumshoe touches a lot of points I didn't like about gumshoe. Like the strange defense of gum to geript. If we take into account Steve didn't yet filter my hydra makes me feel good about him. I don't really know what to make out of the fact Steve is not taking an harder stance on gumshoe scum but I think he is just waiting a return from gumshoe to make a "final" verdict. Anyway. My group is going to get figured out Quite certain of it. Does it not bother you at all that Steve's approach seems to be "Keep all my options open"? Palmar aks ryankoshi about my opinion on both ryankoshi and gumshoe. Yes, as a matter of fact they do mind, not as town but as scum. They do care that I have not yet sided completely with them. They do mind that there is a slight chance of me turning against them and siding with gum and they want none of this. Everyone and their mama had me cleared as town, like most of the active players. Those who didn't read me as town read me as neutral and ryankoshi were crapping their pants because I wasn't that aggressive against gum. So, they had to go back to gum's and mine filters to try and find the tinniest, silliest, most illogical thread of garbage excuse to try and do a 180 on gum and turn on me. And they did exactly that, the oath excuse. (facepalm) In the six posts that you call, in your words, "Everyone and their mama had me cleared as town, like most of the active players. Those who didn't read me as town read me as neutral", many arguments are either wrong or against you: Two are from gumshoe, who considers you town but at the same time has been tunneling rayn. He actually mentioned here (in the Balla quote): Show nested quote +gumshoe:
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end. This isn't someone calling you town, this is someone tunneling rayn and saying that rayn is scum because from the two of you, you're the scummier one, yet he's still going after gum. Gum himself seems to have tripped over his argument - wouldn't it be a lot easier to implicate you than him, and thus more "convenient" to fight? You're labeled as green by association, because if rayn is scum as gum believes, you can't physically be scum. But again, gum's argument is flawed and not good evidence for your own. Balla actually points this out. He's accusing you of doing nothing and gumshoe being too myopic to realize that. Which is correct, or was at that point in time at least. You're scummier than rayn, which means you're either null and gum is scum in his eyes, or the other way around. The other gumshoe post of note is the one where he praises your game for being "riddled with uncertainty", which I previously said was relatively logical (i.e. he's not tunneling and you're approaching gum open-mindedly), although then I changed that to scummy because you didn't have a good stance and it was even evidenced in your read of rayn as town and gum as slightly town. mderg finds you neutral - your dive of gumshoe might be towny according to him, but that would indicate the rest of your play is a little lacking, no? I had a slight red read on you. I still do, and between schoolwork and essays I'll see how your more recent activity changes that. I thought it was implied in "one sketchy motherfucker", but alas. tehpoofter finds you neutral. I'm going to have to re-examine some of his words, I believe that conversation we had was unfinished and unresolved. So in total, we have one mostly green read (gum), two neutrals (poofter and mderg, and balla), and one red read (sentinel). Rayn's own town read, like gum's was association due to tunneling at that point.
I'm a bit late with this but I haven't had an opportunity (as in, time) to examine Steve and get my thoughts on about how he went from a green read on rayn to a red read. I think it's completely contrived and really makes me doubt a lot of the other stuff he's been building onto that case. If you had the patience to read the end you would know that once again, sentinel didn't call anyone out. Show nested quote +I'm a bit late with this but I haven't had an opportunity (as in, time) to examine Steve and get my thoughts on about how he went from a green read on rayn to a red read. I think it's completely contrived and really makes me doubt a lot of the other stuff he's been building onto that case. He just laid some facts down for us, how thoughtful of him. Finally, he accuses his first player as scum. Show nested quote +On April 04 2014 06:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
@Steve
Afk. Making up a few essays I missed due to a business conference last week.
That whole post I made wasn't saying you're scum because of semantics/tunnel. This is what I was saying:
- Your argument on rayn is flawed, X Y and Z are the specific flaws
- Your judgment of rayn's actions is wrong because you're drawing from a point in the game where gum and rayn weren't thinking clearly
You're scum because:
- You spent a while tunneling rayn based on a flawed argument which I perceive as contrived
- Up until your prplhz argument was finally pushed out, you spent the time between your first red case on rayn and your case on prplhz tunneling rayn and not looking for other scum or any other discussion. It's not that you tunneled, it's that you tunneled badly, and unlike gum it's a lot harder to find the markings of bad town play. After he had some sweet scouting time, to see if I'd be everyone's favorite victim he decided that yes, I'm good enough to blame without him taking heat for it. He hasn't said anything about scum before, he just straight up jumps on an accusation. His accusation is arguably against the easiest target in the game by that point, me.
Not Coag, the dude in my cell?
I could have joined the gum train.
Then there's something very weird, I thought upon reading it that I accidentally skipped some posts but no. He votes for ##coagulation without explaining why. Sentinel&page=3]page3 on his filter, pls see for yourselves. He hasn't mentioned coag literally not even once in his filter, besides his early post "buhu, my cell is so unreadable, poor me".
Pressure vote. Really it's my word against yours on this one (and I know gum got called out for his baiting) but you can take the amount of time it took me to vote for mayor (whose election I do consider semi-important) as evidence that no, I'm not just going after Coag the first chance I get.
Note that he does that only after other people paint coag red, like gumshoe and slam.
Aaand that's all.
I won't yet yell he's the scum in there, simply because I haven't yet filtered palmar and coag.
But his play is ultra super scummy.
I'm actually thinking about this case. A lot of your points are legitimate here, which at least means you're trying. You remind me a lot of me, actually. The only real difference I can see is that you swing to one side or the other on nearly all matters while I remain mostly neutral. I don't know if I like that or not.
|
@Gumshoe, why are you so sycophantic now:
On April 03 2014 00:22 gumshoe wrote:
Like, Rayn, we agree Steve is town right? Therefore, either way at least one scum player is extremely active. If that scum player is you, that means the most active player in the game (who has had several active players, such as Holy and Balla back him up at certain points,) is scum. If I'm scum on the other hand, my team could be lurking, or not, but I am still extremely active. If we know that one of the two most active players in the game is scum, why is it so hard to bilieve that the scum team as a whole is active? Thats certainly the case if Rayn is scum, which I know he is.
On April 03 2014 00:59 gumshoe wrote:
Rayn, we agree steve is town, can we agree to vote him mayor?
On April 03 2014 01:12 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 01:08 Steveling wrote:
I read your mayor post raynkoshi.
Honestly you are probably my most town read so I don't have a problem.
As for me I don't have a clue about mayor'ing and stuff.
Do we want scum or town mayor in this setup? Scum want to be mayor and I dont want scum to get what they want, therefore we want a town mayor and I want you to be that mayor. Steve, this thread has 5 scum and you are the only person who has even considered Im town, on paper there is a 50 percent chance Rayn is scum to you, look at my scum games, I dont try this hard, I dont have it in me. I swear on my life I am town. Rayn CAN play this well, I'm sorry that I'm not as good as him ) : but I am trying my best.
On April 04 2014 11:54 gumshoe wrote:
Hmm Coag is silly, as per usual, question is he scum / :
I will say I dont like how blatant he was about wanting to lynch Slam just cause whatever. He offered no read on Slam of his own and that was literally his only read XD. I have no issue killing Coag at the moment, I think sent is super town, which leaves Plamar who I'll dive next to see if I can tie him to Rayn.
##Vote: Coagulation
Also how is Coag so sure Rayns scum? His reasoning was dumb, Artanis made the only call he could possibly make to not break the game. That doesnt auto clear me and Steve. Its likely Rayn's scum, but he didnt outright claim and he was drunk so who the hell knows.
Sigh, all this bullshit is pretty much my fault T_T.
On April 04 2014 11:56 gumshoe wrote:
FYI I'm using Coag as a vote warmer for now as I really do hope hes scum, but yeah, not rulling out Plamar, only sent seems clean to me.
On April 04 2014 12:02 gumshoe wrote:
Also Coag, you say you know Rayn is scum, sent pushed Rayn and called me town before all this bullshit, does that not clear him?
^^is this why you started making these posts?
On April 04 2014 12:10 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2014 12:09 Coagulation wrote:
how do you play mafia here and dont understand scum bus What reason is there to bus? Sents word carries weight, Rayn was in the best position still despite everything that went down (we did vote him for mayor you know) what point is there to working against your team in the group your most likely to win?
On April 04 2014 13:07 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2014 12:55 Coagulation wrote:
wat a fucking joke. yeah ok guys if everyone placeholders a vote on coag its really a coag lynch and u guys are being cowards about it. Coag, please answer all my questions, dont fight me if your town T_T does this help? ##UnvoteFirst things first, I need you realize that Sent is town, it was Plam who was wrong about my alignment and probally Rayns. Also this Tehpoofter Palmer This doesn't mesh well with this / : Show nested quote +I'm not going to wifom myself into thinking you really don't give a shit as town. This is a clear contradiction and I really dont think he cares about this lynch so long as it's not on him. Which is why hes so eager to hide behind a "if hes town, he deserves to get lynched" mentality.
On April 04 2014 13:08 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2014 12:57 Coagulation wrote:
w/e this is my last post. town deserves to lose so i dont even feel bad nooooo come back T_T
On April 04 2014 13:42 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2014 13:38 Alakaslam wrote:On April 04 2014 13:34 gumshoe wrote:On April 04 2014 13:31 Alakaslam wrote:On April 04 2014 13:28 gumshoe wrote:On April 04 2014 13:25 Alakaslam wrote:On April 04 2014 11:54 gumshoe wrote:
Hmm Coag is silly, as per usual, question is he scum / :
I will say I dont like how blatant he was about wanting to lynch Slam just cause whatever. He offered no read on Slam of his own and that was literally his only read XD. I have no issue killing Coag at the moment, I think sent is super town, which leaves Plamar who I'll dive next to see if I can tie him to Rayn.
##Vote: Coagulation
Also how is Coag so sure Rayns scum? His reasoning was dumb, Artanis made the only call he could possibly make to not break the game. That doesnt auto clear me and Steve. Its likely Rayn's scum, but he didnt outright claim and he was drunk so who the hell knows.
Sigh, all this bullshit is pretty much my fault T_T. Wait When coagguss wants lynch this Alakaslam? Seriusly? Your his only scum read. lynch slam. rayns meta read is spot on and if all else fails slam makes a fantastic policy lynch cause he regularely does super dumb shit like claim scum as town its just slam i have a read on so the other two r prolly town Lol coagguss U r scum with rayn Why cant he just be Coag? Coag is no fool And he isn't Rayn's bithc either. He know though this Alakaslam ez LHF So ez push ez win But Town he knows probabilities not like this. He would simply be hush, in setup like tgis Also, as a CHUPAZI of OMGUS, he flies above, dropping the turdz*, & stuff. He dropped a turd with the "policy lynch"- he knows the setup he knows you don't policy here Dasrite folks he call us the fools he does You are a wonderful human bieng Slam :D please keep talking, any other reads on stuff? Do you think theres a chance Rayn is town?
gum goes to sleep, he wakes up and he stops thinking I'm super town
On April 05 2014 00:56 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 00:50 Palmar wrote:
You have no idea if I'm wrong or not unless you're mafia. wtf are you talking about palmar, no I dont know for bloody certain, but when does anyone know anything for certain in this game except scum?! We make pushes by reading into people and wondering why they do the things they do, I havent just said his claim makes him scum, I have also provided reasoning for why it does. As I would with any opinion of mine. Having no 100 precent idea of something doesnt mean we should just sit on our asses and not read into what Rayn did. Btw Palmar no offence, I do look up to you : P and legit think your damm good at this game despite what bits of mean I've thrown your way, but are you getting as annoyed by my posts as I am of yours? Just curios XD
On April 05 2014 02:54 gumshoe wrote:
Anyways, I gotta go for a bit, when I come back I'll try to throw a direct case on Plam together. gl getting the wool out of your eyes town : D
^^The emoticon really changes the tone of this post
On April 05 2014 03:08 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 02:59 Palmar wrote:
Wanting a 1 for 1 lynch is basically a scum claim. We also confirm me if we get the lynch between coag and sent right No, if its coag, it could be sent, if its sent, it could be coag, it says nothing about your alignment. I am throwing away a cell I have effectively won, not because I am scum, but because I am a pompous know it all townie who thinks hes solved the game : P and am willing to bet everything to be right.
On April 05 2014 03:29 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 03:23 Holyflare wrote:
You probably shouldn't be listening to what i say this game though Oh come on man, who are they going to listen to instead?! ME??!!!! I need you Holy T_T if your town too were not likely to win this without you.
On April 05 2014 03:35 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +Palmar is probably the player I have the hardest time reading in this game. It's going to be hard trying to figure the scum in my own cell, even. Sent is caught between an extremely competent player who I believe HAS played us, just as sent fears, and one of the most infamous townie goats on Tl. This sentiment doesn't make him scum / :
On April 05 2014 03:54 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 03:51 Steveling wrote:On April 05 2014 03:06 gumshoe wrote:On April 05 2014 02:56 Steveling wrote:On April 05 2014 02:48 gumshoe wrote:
Ok, lets make this simple shall we? You have said over and over that I am not this dumb and therefore scum. Palmer, my group was likely to be a no lynch, if we lynch you today and your green, we can just lynch me on day 3. No take backsies. Its a 1 for 1 if im wrong and scum. But if I'm right, this whole game turns on its head. I mean, your done today no matter what, so whats wrong with the trade?
People are unwilling to consider Plam and Rayn because they have played well, but they can do that as scum / : Rayn has claimed scum and despite the circumstance of that, is Plamar not more likely scum if Rayn is telling the truth? If we lynch Coag or sent, who gives a shit, we will learn absolutely nothing, lynch palmar though and we can reveal how this game has been controlled by scum since the start.
Not according to me and some others, lol. As for the rest of your post, first of all rayn hasn't claimed. He did and then he town claimed, he even left his "last will" reads to to speak. Some people think he scum claimed, some not but for a most people he didn't scumclaim. People who know him well say that he did, like HF. People who don't, say that he didn't, like prplz. Second, your point would be valid in a normal setup. You are telling us to lynch palmar to get reads off of it?In a game which whole cells are removed after a lynch? Really? In what world is that logical. Scum can bus whomever they want exactly because this is a cell removal setup. You have no solid reason to say what you just said. Honestly gum, make some sense pls, talk to me. Target whomever you want but make valid points pls. No, your totally wrong, we get more out of lynching for info in this setup, because 1: the person is going to die anyways, so we dont lose anything but the point when we kill them. 2: Your looking at it the wrong way bus wise, you think scum can bus any cell, its not like that, think of it as an election, say your scum team is rayn mdern palmer prplz slam You CANNOT throw the cells your are likely to win (ie plamar and rayn) you want to work to make sure those cells pan out no matter what because the mdern and slam cells can very well fail (leaving prp as a swing vote. It's like an election, where each side feels they can win certain states, and only like 12 are in the balance. If you have palmar in a cell with coag and sent, there is no reason palmar should lose that match and scum should do as much as they can to make sure that doesnt happen, thereby leaving clear connections. No no and no. This is wrong, period. You don't lynch anyone with the end game in mind in this setup, I think that's clear. On April 05 2014 03:06 gumshoe wrote:
No, your totally wrong, we get more out of lynching for info in this setup, because 1: the person is going to die anyways, so we dont lose anything but the point when we kill them. I'll push for a lynch on you when our time comes if you keep going with this logic. How can you not get that this is criminal? This is the post you wanted me to see and comment on? facepalm Sigh. Steve I truly thought you were a better player than this ) : Scum know they can win certain cells over others. Thats not planning for an endgame because they literally dont know what the end game is (they cant be sure that theyll secure the order until they actually have) they merely know which cells to focus on.
On April 05 2014 04:00 gumshoe wrote:
Also Steve, if I'm scum, why go after the one guy in this cell no one wants to lynch? I would be making this game personally hard for myself, as I would have all game long. You need to start considering me town because everything thats happened this game makes no sense if I'm scum, I might be stupid, but I'm not scum ) :
^^Mission accomplished?
On April 05 2014 04:14 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 04:04 Steveling wrote:
I don't know about palmar but if you want to lynch me tomorrow, be my guests.
Town will be most probably 1 point away from losing after that. I dont wanna lynch you Steve ) : your town, Rayn is scum, he is one of the best scum players on tl. Do you really think I'm scum Steve? Seriusly? I know your town, because if you were scum all you would have to do is call Rayn scum and your in the clear, the fact that you still suspect me proves to me your town and not just looking to survive. I KNOW your town now, so I know Rayn is scum, and Rayn's behaviur with sent and coag is not scum on scum. His behaviur twoards Palmer is. Open your eyes, lynch Palmer, kill me if it doesn't profit.
^^Everything about this post.
On April 05 2014 04:48 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 04:41 Holyflare wrote:On April 05 2014 03:33 getmoript wrote:On April 03 2014 01:17 Steveling wrote:
Gum, when I started being active today first thing I did was filter you and raynkoshi.
You can check my post on them, frankly I didn't find a single anti town thing.
My view on them hasn't changed since then as well, their case on you was solid.
Anyway, we should get some heat from other cells as well, guys?
Promote discussion pls. This post really bugs me. Never in playing mafia have I ever found a filter with nothing I found bad in it. But what's even odder to me is the complete non-chalance before about Rayn/Gum. I think HF pinged me on this point earlier in the game and I remember it being odd, but in rereading it sticks out even more and more. Specifically, Steveling essentially made this huge case on Gumshoe where he ends up with a fence read. The thing that specifically bugs me is that in this setup, if I'm town and I have a super town read on someone else and a neutral read on the third person, then I'm going to read the fuck out of the third person to figure out what I'm missing and where I'm going wrong. It gets weirder: On April 02 2014 20:51 Steveling wrote:On April 02 2014 20:42 Holyflare wrote:On April 02 2014 20:39 Steveling wrote:
I read your thing against mderg, holyflare and tbh I'm not convinced.
Also I'm waiting for you to answer palmar's questions about mdergs meta filter.
Everyone with soft posts and inactivity and fluff is scum candidate but you seem way too fixated on him for some reason. Regardless, if you don't agree with what i said then what conclusions do you draw from the people that agreed with me when i said it? Are they then mafia for sheeping onto a town or what? First, if I had to bet on it, I'd say he's town. Now about the people that bus'd him Tehpoofter and getript seemingly blindly jump on him. Definitely suspicious for me. Gumshoe's suspicion I think is kinda silly, why would mderg defend me like that out of the blue, it would be literally the worst mafia play ever.Balla doesn't really hard claim him as scum as the others, he's just saying that his filter is scammy/inactive/fluff. So, can't form an opinion on balla based on that. Raynkoshi made the connection between mderg and gum but and raynkoshi so far gets a town read in my book so there's that. I like the joke there and laughed "I think he's town but about those people bussing him..." The weird thing here is that he again calls RaynKoshi town and calls Gum's suspicion silly. There's really too much of this to ignore. On April 02 2014 23:55 Steveling wrote:
Alright, I just had the time to properly read raynkoshi's case and gum's um, lack of debunking?
About the trap thing, raynkoshi's 1st point, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt gum.
I explained earlier that I find that part of your game flawed but genuinely your style and mby town play. Same thing you did when we played together. You are still in the wrong but I'm passing it by.
The 2nd point they made is very very legit though. Rare are the cases where the town benefits if they lynch their own.
That holds for a normal setup though, for this setup in which after each lynch a whole cell goes OUT of the game your "don't give a crap what you think about me" is inherently scum.
I'm surprised you can't see it for yourself.
I was willing to give you even more time to explain yourself right until that part.
Their 3rd point also stands and you still don't give a damn. You are not making it easy mate.
You don't have my vote of confidence anymore. + Show Spoiler [Rayn's case] +On April 02 2014 22:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:Here is why gumshoe is mafia and we should be lynching him:
Point #1: gumshoe's bait and why it does not make sense from town perspective and proves he is scum:Here is the full conversation regarding this: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not. I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not? ~rayn Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 06:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not. I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not? ~rayn I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / : Now here other stuff happens and both of me and gumshoe discuss other things. Later on i revisit the argument and it bothers me because it looks weird. I ask gumshoe this: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 08:40 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? I am trying so hard to think about this post and what the fuck is the point of all this. gumshoe what's the point of all this? On April 02 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote:
I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / :
I don't believe this. I don't believe this for one second. ~rayn Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 08:52 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:43 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
yes please.
~rayn I was offering an olive branch to see your reaction. No I wasn't honestly going after Steve with so little, but you know I'm capable of weird arguments like that so If your scum you have to consider 2 things, if I'm genuine and if your better off tentatively agreeing with me or turning on me for that silly read. Now read the red part and the green part. Both are gumshoe's answers. Both cannot possibly be true. Agreed? Yes, good. Now this leads us to the following: gumshoe says he laid a trap on me and i did not take the bait. Okay, maybe this is true. However why this is scummy is because the trap and the conclusion from it happened before gumshoe makes his green explanation. If it was truly a trap gumshoe has his conclusion already. In this case he would post the red part instead of lying and posting the green part in the first place. There is absolutely no reason to lie about the motivation behind your argument when asked, especially when you have already gotten your conclusion!!There is no town motivation for gumshoe to do what he did. This also leads me to:
Point #2: gumshoe's contradicting stance regarding readability and what it means:I made a post about this already. It's here: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 10:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote:So i went to see if Holyflare is hard to read for gumshoe. Turns out he had a pretty clear read on him in World Heavyweight mafia game (where he was town) half past D1. I also found this: On March 28 2014 01:53 gumshoe wrote:On March 28 2014 01:30 Holyflare wrote:
because it is so wrong, not reading your pm enables you to be towny because you have no hesitation about finding your partner at that point because you don't know who he is so your entire reason for voting palmar is incredibly weird.....
not to mention he actually claimed scum, why haven't you commented on that instead? Cause I'm not there yet : P and I disagree, bieng readable is a big part of bieng town, if you make your self unreadable you can't be trusted. I'm not going to argue with you about this because it's retarded to think otherwise. However as me and gumshoe talk about being readable in this game his stance is this: On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:03 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 08:56 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm. ~rayn "Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play. Here i present you our first...... Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!! ezpz ~rayn Look at the post. - In the green part gumshoe, as town in the last game we played, claims his stance. He says "being readable is a big part of good town play. It's retarded to think otherwise."
- In the red part gumshoe claims his stance in this game. You need to remember this has to do with the point #1 i presented. I have an argument that gumshoe is mafia because he is lying. I want to know why gumshoe is lying and if he has an explanation regarding why it makes sense to lie here as town. His stance is "why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? If you can't read me, that's not my fault."
Why this is scummy? Because town!gumshoe PROVABLY thinks the exact opposite he claims in this game. He only says what he does in this game because he lied and can't explain it in any other way. His explanation does not match with what town!gumshoe thinks. Noone can possibly have a contradicting stance on what is the optimal play for a townie regarding being readable or not when they are town, it's impossible, regardless of the game or situation!
Point #3: gumshoe is dodging arguments and working against his own heuristics + :I'll just make a list of these: - gumshoe refuses to answer my case on him and fearmongers something about "you can't read me scum because Steveling bla bla". That's didging an argument, Steveling not posting has nothing to do with if gumshoe is scum or not
- As Balla already pointed out then gumshoe calls me mafia for this. In case gumshoe's logic as town was "you can't call me scum because the other dude has not posted" he can't based on his own logic call me mafia for that. The point is not if this is true or not, the point is if gumshoe thinks this is a good heuristic he can't possibly forget it when it comes to me. He is selectively choosing to apply his heuristics when they benefit him and forget's them when they don't.
- gumshoe refuses to comment on my arguments on his case on me. Instead of telling people why i am wrong (i must be if i am scum and he has a good case on me right?) he only makes the same case again and hammers the same answered points over and over again. See my pretty picture. That's not how townies work.
Thank you for reading. ~rayn So Steveling has town read on rayn; there's a lack of debunking of rayn's case by gumshoe; steveling likes rayn's case. How can this guy not just call gumshoe scumshoe here. I really don't get it. The thing that I find odd about this in particular is that if you read Gumshoe's post in context, then it's super easy to dismiss Rayn's point 2. Point 1 from Rayn's case is far more convincing and a better point imo (although I personally don't find any of Rayn's case convincing). Point 3 I can seen from a lot of directions. The important thing here is that Steve should just be hammer Scumshoe into the ground here and pushing for Group 1 first. On April 03 2014 02:23 Steveling wrote:
I'm trying to figure this out, because so far they have being very townish.
But this is, well how should I put it, questionable?
Anyway, you can have your own opinion, illogical as it is.
At least make a case against me so I can defend myself. X swore on his life so he's legit is not much of an argument.
As I said earlier what everyone needs to do is defend themselves because a single lynch removes an entire cell from the game so I'll defend myself.
Just try to find a proper reason if you can? Dunno, this play of yours is very bad.
And one last thing, ryankoshi, you didn't respond to that, what if I also swear I'm town? I don't disagree with Steve here. Rayn's reason for flipping his read on gumshoe was weird/illogical/whatever. The odd response specifically is Steve's been super convinced that Gum is scum here; he's found gum's posting scummy, he's found rayn super town, he's liked rayn's case and thinks the points are scummy/damning. But the weird thing is that he's not hammering any of this shit home when gumshoe gets a freebie townread. I don't see why he's not just rehammering all of those arguments back into rayn if he reallys thinks Gum is scum. Overall, I think gum's town, I'm going to assume Rayn is town. Steve looks really odd and scummy so he hsould be lynch #2 this whole post states reasons why steve is more likely town You dont seem to think either me or Steve are scum so question! Holy, do you see Rayn bieng as sympathetic yet resigned to lynch as he was to Coag if they were scum together? As for Sent, he does nothing to even remotely help him survive his cell and sent is a perfectly good ally / : so theres no reason to abandon him like Rayn did. He clearly favours Palmer, does that not mean anything? Is it that unlikely that they're both scum?
The theme I see starting page 5 of your filter is you being overly friendly with everyone, including the people you're against. Lots of emoticons and self-deprecation. You attach onto whoever defends you and try and calm down anyone who attacks you.
This is very scummy. This doesn't look like fear; it's constant and is used according to the situation in the game. This looks calculated and thought out.
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On April 03 2014 13:02 Tehpoofter wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 12:36 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 03 2014 12:19 Tehpoofter wrote:
So I'm really glad that I just read through 20 pages of gum/rayn fighting. Going into it I had a town read on rayn scum on gum and null on steve. Coming out of it gum looks even scummier steve looks scummy and so does rayn tbh. (there has to be 2 towns in each group right?)
Like I could make cases on all of you guys,
GUM: basically to me Rayn's case on gum is really strong he pretends to set some trap that doesn't work (but seems like it would only catch town if it did work) and then calls rayn scum for it. I thought rayn refuted his claim pretty well and answered some questions on it. Balla brought up a good point last night about how gum accussed rayn of doing the same thing he was doing in ignoring steve and being scummy for it. I think gum went into mega defensive mode and just started throwing shit at rayn and rayn did the same until rayn saw gum say he swears hes town. Tell me what scum gum's rationale would be for blatantly ignoring rayn's criticisms when rayn is one of the most sheep-able people on this forum.
Rayn: Looks good for his case on gum then does this 180 and instantly believes him on the thing he said about swearing. I find it really odd that logical rayn town would drop his biggest case on someone he knows has a 50/50 of being scum just because he said one thing. This makes rayn look scummier in my eyes because he might have felt like others would see that and if he kept tunneling he would out himself if he were scum so he hipster switched so he could be the first one to say thats the case. (For me this means nothing btw its a game about lying I expect anyone in here would say anything to not look more town as scum and I would never fault anyone for it, I'd swear on my grandma's grave I was town and my grandma isn't even dead) So I find this really odd of rayn to switch here.
Steve: Steve then has like the weirdest reaction ever and says someone is cheating and starts getting all emo and bent out of shape about something that to me just made his cellmate rayn look more scummy and changed nothing on my read on gum. So If I was steve I would be asking the mod why he put two scum in my group not going on about cheating and such.
Last I checked, Steve had a townread on rayn and was very timidly pointing his finger at gum. This whole thing about setup being botched is a joke IMO. Even if they didn't change your opinions on gum/steve, could you give me some thoughts on the interactions between the two of them? As in Steve's thoughts on gum and vice versa
So after 20 pages of bullshit-in-fighting of one cell if this were a normal game I'd probably lynch all of them and assume I hit at least 2 scum. In this game sadly only 1 is scum and 2 are town. So rayn's case on gum looks like it comes from a town point of view and maybe he is just a reactionary player and did the swap onto steve because he has some weird set of mafia morals that I would never follow so I'll give rayn the town pass here. (Now later on in the thread I think he makes other contributions to be more townie as well so this got strengthened even more so)
Steve emo quitting reminds me of rayn doing the same thing in Titanic about coag being a hydra. Rayn emod for a couple hours and turned out to be town here so I'm going to assume thats what is happening here cause I still haven't seen gum do anything really very townie and there can be only one scum. (I also have more reasons on steve here in a second based on another read.)
Rayn is not Steve, and the reasons they gave up hope were completely different and under different circumstances. Rayn continued to post very actively while Steve seems to have gone off the radar as he came closer and closer to bedtime, although that might change tomorrow. This is probably the weakest point in your argument.
Right now Scum=Gum, Rayn = Town, Steve = Town cause gum is scum.
I'd just like to say this is exactly what scum would have wanted in this game and why my plan was amazing and if you guys focused elsewhere the reads would be more spread out and varied and could be scumx2 or 3xtown or something but instead we have 20 pages of fighting that might net us 1 scum and thats only if one becomes obvious which to me it hasnt. /end rant on my system as I still read Balla/Rayn as town and they both think its shit.
More on other scum that popped up during the Cell 1 Battle royale.
Where do I say that he ignored his questioning? I don't think he did he just answered them poorly like didn't respond well. Setup being botchered is a joke? <<<i don't understand this maybe I'm misreading but I don't get this point. I did see steve leaning on gum being mafia and actually was reading that townie (cause I was and am thinking the same thing) I'd have to go look at some of their direct interactions but I don't remember anything specific what point were you getting at with this? The last point is mainly me just being butt hurt they didn't like my plan tbh and isn't really an accusation on anyone. @sentinel I really don't understand your first two points all that much maybe I'm missing something. I'm about to get off work but I'll be back around in 30 minutes and look more thoroughly on what you said I might have read it to quick.
By "questioning", I specifically meant rayn asking gum why he's so averse to being read or giving out his thoughts to people.
I answered the "joke" bit in my defense against Steve, but basically I consider the whole thing to be nonessential in itself. Although I suspect gumshoe.
I wasn't looking for specifics on gum vs. steve or attacking any point in that part of your argument, I just wanted you to elaborate a bit on your thoughts.
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On April 05 2014 05:03 gumshoe wrote:
It is totally calculated Sent. 10000 PERCENT I am doing everything I can possibly imagine to get Palmer lynched. I am appealing to emotion, to reason, to ego. Because I want to lynch scum and I want to know if I was right.
It looks to me like you're doing everything you can possibly imagine to survive and survive without attention.
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I was at work you fucks.
getmoript is going after me because I can think of counterarguments
HF is going after me for causa incognita
Coag is going after me because feels like it
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On April 06 2014 06:09 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2014 06:06 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I was at work you fucks.
getmoript is going after me because I can think of counterarguments
HF is going after me for causa incognita
Coag is going after me because feels like it You have made 2 posts today. And now you show up?
Yes. That's how being asleep and then being at work works.
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On April 06 2014 06:15 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2014 06:12 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 06 2014 06:09 Palmar wrote:On April 06 2014 06:06 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I was at work you fucks.
getmoript is going after me because I can think of counterarguments
HF is going after me for causa incognita
Coag is going after me because feels like it You have made 2 posts today. And now you show up? Yes. That's how being asleep and then being at work works. But would you even have shown up if people weren't voting you? That's what I'm struggling with.
Yes. But all I can give is my word on that one, right?
I'm frustrated because after all this time I'm about to die one way or another and I'm back at square one. I can have my own thoughts but I don't have anything concrete to pin anyone on after all this time.
I'm predicting this scumteam: gumshoe, Holyflare, Coag, getmoript, Cephiro
HF + Coag I'm sure about. gum I'm still convinced although I can't think of a concrete way to counter getmoript's argument. Ceph i'm mildly sure because his play reminds me of Noir. Lurking except when he really needed to get something in. getmoript is a coinflip, I have no fucking clue about cell 4. But I don't like him so I'm biased for once.
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Fuck wrong cell.
I have nothing for Cell 4 either way. Say Balla.
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On April 06 2014 06:24 prplhz wrote:
or maybe he put 3 different 5 man scum teams
Are you implying you think all 15 players are scum?
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On April 06 2014 06:24 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2014 06:21 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 06 2014 06:15 Palmar wrote:On April 06 2014 06:12 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 06 2014 06:09 Palmar wrote:On April 06 2014 06:06 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I was at work you fucks.
getmoript is going after me because I can think of counterarguments
HF is going after me for causa incognita
Coag is going after me because feels like it You have made 2 posts today. And now you show up? Yes. That's how being asleep and then being at work works. But would you even have shown up if people weren't voting you? That's what I'm struggling with. Yes. But all I can give is my word on that one, right? I'm frustrated because after all this time I'm about to die one way or another and I'm back at square one. I can have my own thoughts but I don't have anything concrete to pin anyone on after all this time. I'm predicting this scumteam: gumshoe, Holyflare, Coag, getmoript, CephiroHF + Coag I'm sure about. gum I'm still convinced although I can't think of a concrete way to counter getmoript's argument. Ceph i'm mildly sure because his play reminds me of Noir. Lurking except when he really needed to get something in. getmoript is a coinflip, I have no fucking clue about cell 4. But I don't like him so I'm biased for once. Lol, yes I'm defending you cause I'm scum right : D can no one fucking read me?Am I that much of an enigma? Let me spell it out for you all. Town gum tries or lurks. Scum gum lurks. End of story. Please can we lynch coag?
You're sucking up to me so I don't think you're scum. You literally started defending me after I said you're not scum but rather bad town when everyone thought you're scum.
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EPT
