III Titanic Mini Mafia: MS Paint Edition - Page 100

Holyflare

United Kingdom30774 Posts

March 20 2014 15:55 GMT

#1981

On March 21 2014 00:50 DarthPunk wrote:

No I am saying that if you genuinely thought I was scum enough to tunnel me like that then it makes no fucking sense for you to stop. Even though, personally, it is nice to not have to deal with it. It still makes no fucking sense.

Does any of your posting help solve the game here? No it doesn't. It can make any kind of sense you want but it's irrelevant.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43188 Posts

March 20 2014 15:55 GMT

#1982

One more and we have our second mafia easily.
Donät question this post. I'll explain soon.

Koshi

Belgium38797 Posts

March 20 2014 15:58 GMT

#1983

Here are another 2 quotes from Vivax. He says that he has scumreads on hopeless, thrawn and giggle. Then 8 hours later he makes a post about these 3. Does it feel like he thinks these 3 are scum and why these 3?

I haven't investigated it myself and I am traveling home atm.

+ Show Spoiler +

On March 20 2014 02:59 Vivax wrote:
Off the bat I would say hopeless, thrawn and giggle are scum. Full reasoning in roughly 6-8 hours when I'm awake and energized. As a preliminary I suggest you look at the timing when thrawn started posting seriously (hint: After Coag flipped, he +1d on Coag and went back to doing nothing previous to that).

Anyone who calls me scum for inactivity gets dumb-or-scum-points. I have a life outside of mafia sometimes, will post schedule if host allows it.

+ Show Spoiler +

On March 20 2014 11:03 Vivax wrote:
Thrawn, past this conversation you seem to have lost interest into hopeless. You asked these questions and didn't reach a conclusion, and saying Rayn is town due to statistics is a statement I would expect to have raised your eyebrows. Later between 12:00 and 18:00 ish your read on hopeless changes from scum to town, I would like you to explain to me how you had your read evolving here, cause I can't see it, and how the way hopeless responded to the questions below made you feel he would be scum.

+ Show Spoiler +

On March 19 2014 11:15 Hopeless1der wrote:

Show nested quote +

- waiting on rayn to come back, he inevitably will, most likely within the next 15 hours. If he isnt back before ~5 hours to deadline I say we lynch him, otherwise he's likely town

- Coag is town

- HF is scummy

- DP is leaning town

- Palmar is town (not green town)

Anything else you feel I could actually comment on at this point that wouldnt be meaningless speculation?

On March 19 2014 11:29 thrawn2112 wrote:
can you explain some of those things?

On March 19 2014 11:32 thrawn2112 wrote:
most of all I want to hear explanations for the hf/palmar reads, dont worry about coag

On March 19 2014 11:34 Hopeless1der wrote:
coag for seal
HF for being dense and altogether not useful
rayn for being rayn
palmar for general pigheadedness and his early game telling me to piss off
DP for general demeanor though tbh I could cherry pick a reasonable conspiracy/association case from him

On March 19 2014 11:36 Hopeless1der wrote:
HF insists his reads are legit, unless he's recanted his DP read somewhere that I missed. His case on DP was such a farce I question how he ever earned the championship belt.

On March 19 2014 11:41 thrawn2112 wrote:

Show nested quote +

this doesn't help me. if you took this post completely out of context and didn't know anything about this game, you'd have no idea if those reads make those players town or mafia

"rayn for being rayn"

recently you said that rayn should be lynched if he doesn't come back, but if he does come back he's town. I want to knwo about your read on him right now, not related to some conditional crap in the future. my guess is that you think he;s town but I still want you to explain why

The issue I have with your play is that it looked looked like you started stepping up activity post-Coag-confirming-himself-as-town which pretty much guaranteed to make you look like the poop you posted for +1ing that wagon, on the other hand i can't really blame you for delurking, but the timing stuck out to me.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Show nested quote +

On March 20 2014 01:55 Hopeless1der wrote:

On March 20 2014 01:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hopeless who do you think is mafia?

No good answer atm. I wouldnt lynch Holy but I dont like him much.

Giggles:

On March 19 2014 08:58 Giggletummy wrote:

On March 19 2014 08:56 Koshi wrote:

On March 19 2014 08:47 Giggletummy wrote:

On March 19 2014 08:44 Koshi wrote:

On March 19 2014 08:37 DarthPunk wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On March 19 2014 08:32 Koshi wrote:
The red reply thing? That was good.
3 people were saying rayn case was good. He had to reply.
rayn kept up pressure.
Coag kept replying. With more caps.

I don't see overdefensive.

Really. The all caps thing was not over defensive? But you agreed that I was over defensive.

On March 19 2014 07:18 Koshi wrote:

Show nested quote +

I liked what Kush said.

On March 19 2014 07:19 Koshi wrote:
pointing out overdefensive post. Could be Coag. But it looks like Kush.

For this post:

On March 19 2014 07:00 DarthPunk wrote:
You realise that policy thing was like over a year ago HF? I said I was going to policy vote coag before the game started and I did.

Further I don't think it is a shit policy. I literally would prefer the game to not have a 10 plus member Hydra in it.

I would think you were scum but you, you know, did the same thing last game as town so yeah.

I want to know how on earth you though I was scummy/over defensive for that post, but Coag ragingin all caps was NOT over defensive. That seems like a very arbitrary decision for one thing to be over defensive and another far more defensive thing to not be.

I didn't like your early posting. I didn't like the non committal stuff. I didn't like the defensive attitude of other posts. I was reading the thread and I was actually looking at your posts strangely and then people put pressure on you and I simply +1 on everything. because I felt that needed to be done and they had a point.

Out of everybody I really believe you had a really weak-ass start and I gave you a scummy point. The point is already put down and cannot be erased.

-Koshi his judgement-

replying for reasons

Also what is this?

It is me noting something for reasons. Will discuss later, want to talk to Flare

I want this followup

Show nested quote +

Hopeless, the followup is right there, in your face. You still want it for some reason, then don't comment on it and sheep a point VE made in a seemingly semi-trolly mood. This is in strong contrast to the start you delivered where you went instascum on HF, dead-serious. So please read that post by giggle and give me a conclusion, with YOUR reasoning.

Giggletummy

Pitcairn200 Posts

March 20 2014 16:12 GMT

#1984

On March 21 2014 00:38 Holyflare wrote:
~~Djod~~, ~~hopeless~~, ~~giggle~~, vivax, VE, HF, ________ mafia

I'm fine with vivax. What you guys are missing is a particular reason for him to lie, nobody just lies without an agenda. Vivax calls me mafia early, then decides to backtrack and call me town. I think mafia was comfortable with the number of votes on me and me being so absent, figured I was an ezpz lynch, and wanted to slip off me. I have not looked for other players that did this same thing, but it's worth checking into.

Also, I altered HF's post above. Here is why.

VE is mafia.

(1) I checked into the votes on me, will post more about that in a sec. VE's was the one I liked least.

VE votes me without having read my filter - + Show Spoiler +

On March 20 2014 04:00 VisceraEyes wrote:
[image loading]

On March 20 2014 04:34 VisceraEyes wrote:
It's not even in the game. Look, I'm not at computer right now, but when I get to one I'll take a look at GT's filter and give MY OWN reasoning for wanting to lynch him. I'm down with the lynch because I'm presuming you and rayn are town and you both feel strongly and there was some weirdness I don't recall right now earlier on so let's do it. I have NOT read his filter, so I'll do that and then give an actual read on him in a bit. Fair?

Not a fan of this. I don't have a giant filter. He's read rayn and palmar and other players to know that he thinks they are town, or just the thread in general, but he hasn't looked at my filter, yet votes me.

The specific reasoning he provides is misrepresenting my posts in a really scummy light.

On March 20 2014 05:48 VisceraEyes wrote:
The reason I want to lynch Giggletummy is that he claims that the whole scooby-doo nonsense is not productive to the thread, but the fact of the matter is that it had to do with something about /this/ game - primarily Holyflare's read on Hopeless - so the point actually /is/ relevant to this game. That he's calling it "not productive" indicates to me that he's either scum trying to buy credibility later if/when Hopeless flips town or scum trying to deflect off of a scumbuddy in this situation. There's a possibility that he's just tunneled in on Holyflare if he's town, but judging from his posts to and about Holyflare I don't see this as possible. Hell in his case on Holyflare he never even says he thinks Holyflare is scum - just does a play by play of the whole Holy/DP scenario and gives a non-conclusion.

I think Giggletummy is the lynch today guys, and I like both rayn and Palmar who are both on GT for different reasons. My reason is the best reason though and everyone should vote for GT.

There was a big argument in thread about whether I can call something useless and still use it as part of a read, but that misses the real point.

Nobody seems to have gone back and read my filter and those pages. Here is my actual post:

On March 20 2014 01:28 Giggletummy wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 20 2014 01:16 Holyflare wrote:

On March 20 2014 01:11 Giggletummy wrote:

On March 20 2014 01:04 Holyflare wrote:

On March 20 2014 01:00 Palmar wrote:

On March 20 2014 00:56 Holyflare wrote:

On March 20 2014 00:48 Palmar wrote:

On March 20 2014 00:46 Holyflare wrote:

On March 20 2014 00:43 Giggletummy wrote:

On March 20 2014 00:36 Holyflare wrote:
-.- -.- -.- -.- -.- -.- it's NOTHING to do with that "case" because those posts were troll posts, he's referencing the scooby doo game that YOU were in and I was town but using another game where I did the same thing as scum as his point to use against me without mentioning i did it as town in really small!

Nuh uh. Earlier was the time to say "those were troll posts."

I'm also not buying that you start the game trolling, choose two people to troll, and they both just so happen to be mafia and you're gonna tunnel tunnel tunnel.

um no it really wasn't? You think I make a legitimate case on someone that says "if im scum i'll kill coag" "if i'm town i'll kill coag" without trolling for reactions?

You think I don't know that telling someone to sheep me because I bus/or am right is trolling? You can quite clearly see in my posts that I jump to serious as soon as he mentions scooby doo

He mentioned scoopy doo before you made the "sheep me cause I bus or right" post.

yes but I didn't read into it until he mentioned it as a reason for calling me scum based on the game that didn't include scooby doo

On March 19 2014 07:08 Holyflare wrote:

On March 19 2014 07:05 Hopeless1der wrote:
cultured: he went full choose your own adventure mode, bussed a teammate for all the towncred and soloed to victory off championship belt reputation
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/444078-cultured-mini-mafia

How does that apply here at all? In that regard I am thus bussing DP because that's what I do in my scum games. Therefore the case is in fact not horrible and you should sheep it. If I am town, I am generally correct and thus in fact you should sheep it. Either way, painting me in a negative light based on 1 game (whereas dp has stated anti policy things in numerous games, check the DB and past game filters) but still does it here. Furthermore, his overdefensive nature was seen very heavily in vengeful where he went full blow retard overreaction. This game is a much toned down version of that but still defensive because he doesn't like being critiqued. It is easy to find scum DP and I have done it.

Follow me. Oh scummy number 2.

God I hate talking about all these games I have no clue about.

If I understand you correctly, the point still stands, the "sheep cause right/bus" is after he mentioned that game and thus you had already gone serious mode when you posted that, and thus you can't claim it's a joke.

you think someone says sheep me because i'm bussing or right as a legitimate "case"? because that's what giggletummy is saying i'm doing

You're wrong on the turning point of why I think you're mafia. The early trolling can be a townie trying to draw reactions and get reads or it can be someone just trying to appear like they're contributing and doing that. It's the followup that matters, and figuring out which you were doing.

well i'm not because the entirety of your point on me on hopeless is about the poop soup "case" on him about bussing? when in fact the real case was that he mentioned a game where I did something as town but only used the game where I did it as scum as a reason for calling me scum

you have also failed to answer my questions, why is your gameplay so much more different here than it is in really small mafia? you had to ask so many questions and be pushed so much to vote or be convinced on someone that was very scummy and even then you were asking them questions. Right off the bat here you are making accusations and putting down votes without doing any of the inquisitive things you were doing in really small mafia

I think that the entirety of this scooby doo thing is clogging the thread and is not helpful to anyone. People who continue to argue about it should be lynched or shot.

As far as meta, that game was instant majority where 4 votes got someone lynched. There are other reasons, but the two setups are wildly different.

Here is the part referenced

I think that the entirety of this scooby doo thing is clogging the thread and is not helpful to anyone. People who continue to argue about it should be lynched or shot.

That post is on pg 63, "the entirety of this scooby doo thing" and why is it bad? Clogging the thread, not helpful. Read pages 61, 62, 63, and further if you'd like. This is when things really picked up with hopeless/HF/rayn and who had read what game, when things were said, etc.

If you believe those pages are productive to the thread, easy to read, led to solid reads on people, then we are not reading the same thread. Not even the people posting were speaking the same language, half the problems were because of misunderstandings or expectations about who read what scooby doo sections and what the term "scooby doo" means.

Go read those pages. Read my post. Read VE's reasoning.

VE was happy to sheep earlier and vote me without reading. But when asked for specific reasoning as to the sheeping, who he agreed with, he gave his own reasoning that super misrepresents my post there. Those pages of scooby doo stuff were not productive, they were incredibly confusing for all parties.

Anyone who can make perfect sense of 61-63, be my guest.

(2) This is associative, and only worthwhile if Vivax flips mafia

Search VE's filter for vivax. VE gets asked by rayn about tehpoofter. Responds here, first mention of Vivax - + Show Spoiler +

On March 20 2014 03:15 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm going to give you my thoughts on his entire filter because he has one and I can.

His intro post is odd because on the one hand it gives "content" which he then needs to explain if asked, but on the other hand it's content that is easily dismissable because A) it's so early and no one has done anything and B) the reasoning he gives is so nebulous and largely non-alignment-indicative that it can pretty much just be taken for what it is - an MSPaint drawing in a forum game. But he /does/ give reasoning so meh.

The weird part is where he states explicitly that he doesn't have a read on me, that he's pinging for a reaction and that you can ignore it. Like, okay fine. So he was pinging me.

But I have to wonder. What is he expecting from me that I must be scum because I'm not already tearing it up. After all, I'm among the first people in the thread in spite of my early disappearance. I was the first to Paint a Painting. THAT early in the game, I'd say most of that stuff is more town-indicative than scum-indicative.

Anyway moving on, he then interjects into the HF-DP discussion to ask HF if DP's read makes him scum, in a way that seems like he's on the DP-town side of things. This is...fine to me. He doesn't ask in a way that makes you think HF looks worse, he feels like he thinks HF and DP are BOTH town, which I sort of agree with.

And he then pockets Vivax hard. Not sure if intentional, but Vivax has said some townie things and I agree that he looks town, so he may have just been overstating it or whatever.

Ultimately I think Banks is PROOOOBABLY town. I just agree with a couple of the things he's saying in what he's not saying, and in spite of him consistently calling me scum I think he's probably town.

Again, this is someone who still hasn't read my filter, is voting me, but has noticed Vivax's posts/vivax's filter and is townie on Vivax with no real specifics.

Then we get VE's little list:

On March 20 2014 03:50 VisceraEyes wrote:
Just so we're clear, I'm going AFK again for a while but will return in several hours.

Here's where I stand right now:
Hopeless1der, Giggletummy, Djodref, thrawn <----------- would maybe lynch possibly.
HF, DP, Vivax, Palmar, rayn, tehpoofter, Oats, Koshi <----------- don't even ask - won't do it today.

and when asked about Vivax

On March 20 2014 03:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
His thought process in his intro post seemed fairly logical, and to come from a townie. He wanted explanations based on his observation of a situation he described, explained why he thought it was more likely to come from scum and that was it. He also seems to have followed up with a read after he got what he was after.

Vivax is on VE's don't even ask list, and when questioned as to why, he knows exactly what Vivax has posted. This is at the same time he drops a vote on me without reading my filter.

VE is intimately familiar with Vivax's posting, but has not read the (short) filter of the guy he votes for. Why is VE so concerned with Vivax's filter? Because scumbuddies

VE is oddly townie on Vivax, he's straight up do-not-ask, but can't provide a specific anything as to why in either explanation.

Koshi

Belgium38797 Posts

March 20 2014 16:18 GMT

#1985

Pretty good post. I like giggles.

Hopeless1der

United States5836 Posts

March 20 2014 16:18 GMT

#1986

On March 21 2014 01:18 Koshi wrote:
Pretty good post. I like giggles.

geript

10024 Posts

March 20 2014 16:19 GMT

#1987

DarthPunk (1): Holyflare
Coagulation (0): ~~DarthPunk~~, ~~raynpelikoneet~~, ~~thrawn2112~~
Holyflare (1): Giggletummy
Tehpoofter (1): ~~DarthPunk~~, Vivax, ~~DarthPunk~~
Hopeless1der (0): ~~raynpelikoneet~~
djodref (2): ~~Oatsmaster~~, Koshi, thrawn2112, ~~raynpelikoneet~~
Giggletummy (3): ~~raynpelikoneet~~, ~~Palmar~~, VisceraEyes, ~~Hopeless1der~~, ~~DarthPunk~~, Tehpoofter, Djodref, ~~DarthPunk~~
Vivax (5): raynpelikoneet, DarthPunk, Oatsmaster, Palmar, Hoplesss1der

Not Voting: Alakaslam

Currently Vivax is set to be lynched.
Day ends in

Koshi

Belgium38797 Posts

March 20 2014 16:27 GMT

#1988

So difficult to decide between HF and DP. I got a question for.dp.when I see him next time. DP help me remind.

Giggletummy

Pitcairn200 Posts

March 20 2014 16:27 GMT

#1989

HF is still mafia (Yes. Mafia. I don't vote for people and write cases on people that I don't think are mafia)

Besides the early stuff that nobody likes, some more specific items. Holyflare loves comparisons to past games, meta, catching people because they aren't playing like they did here or there or whatever. Read his filter here, read his filters elsewhere, he's a big big big fan of comparing games.

He uses that to slip in awful comparisons. One of the major things he was in my arse about early was really small mafia. For those who didn't play in or read really small mafia, there were seven players. In an instant lynch game. 2 mafia, 4 votes = dead on D1.

Flare is really concerned about me writing a case on him and voting him, despite being more hesitant there.

On March 20 2014 00:06 Holyflare wrote:

Show nested quote +

for these reasons

On March 20 2014 00:15 Holyflare wrote:
Why did you vote me and build a case without questioning me intensively like you did to other people in really small mafia? What's with the drastic change in playstyle?

On March 20 2014 01:16 Holyflare wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 20 2014 01:11 Giggletummy wrote:

On March 20 2014 01:04 Holyflare wrote:

On March 20 2014 01:00 Palmar wrote:

On March 20 2014 00:56 Holyflare wrote:

On March 20 2014 00:48 Palmar wrote:

On March 20 2014 00:46 Holyflare wrote:

On March 20 2014 00:43 Giggletummy wrote:

He mentioned scoopy doo before you made the "sheep me cause I bus or right" post.

yes but I didn't read into it until he mentioned it as a reason for calling me scum based on the game that didn't include scooby doo

On March 19 2014 07:08 Holyflare wrote:

you think someone says sheep me because i'm bussing or right as a legitimate "case"? because that's what giggletummy is saying i'm doing

I answered this, but want to push it a little harder. rayn may not want to be a teacher, but I'll stand at the blackboard and ask the class, "Class, why would someone be more hesitant about cases/votes in a 7 man instant lynch mini than in a larger non-instant game?"

Well garsh teacher, maybe because those two styles of games are entirely different. Maybe votes mean more in an instant lynch game, especially a tiny one. Maybe the comparison is quite flawed, because the differences are easily explained by setup differences.

Again associative, but HF also just slipped during this Vivax stuff. Not "no why does this mean anything", but a really specific post he made.

On March 20 2014 23:16 Holyflare wrote:

Show nested quote +

HOW IS IT A SLIP WHEN A TOWN DID THE SAME THING IN TITANIC 2 NOT TO MENTION 60 IS 40 PAGES IN NOT TO MENTION YOU ARE SCUM

Look children, a mafia post!

(1) "How is it a slip when a town did the same thing in titanic 2"

read that. Read it read it read it. How is lying about timings scummy when one time a town did the same thing? HF knows better than this, 100%. Everyone does. Sometimes townies slip, lie, do dumb things, get lynched. But more often than not, when someone gets caught lying in a read, or lies about their reasoning, it's because they're mafia. You lynch most liars because most of the time, lying serves mafia more than town, they're more likely to lie, blah blah blah.

Mixed in with the rest of HF's response is this. How is lying about your reasoning behind something a mafia trait when here's this one instance of a townie doing the same. If we didn't lynch anyone for things that a single townie had done ever, we'd never lynch anyone.

This was an off-the-cuff post, not well thought out, and it shows that HF is trying to use terrible logic when things go awry today for mafia (if vivax mafia).

(2) "Not to mention 60 is 40 pages in"

This means nothing, and is just pure speculation about what someone meant by the number 40.

(3) "not to mention you are scum"

Followed an hour later by DP now being town.

Mafia are most likely to slip up when shenanigans happen or some giant bomb gets dropped in thread. HF slipped up here, not by just half-defending vivax, but by doing it entirely wrong. Here's a 100% empty post, with a bad comparison to a single past game (a townie can lie so don't lynch for lying when there's not a townie reason to lie), some nonsense about what 40 maybe means, and then (and no, this doesn't really matter, but for the sake of neatness I like that this whole post is invalid) a continued tunnel of DP that then gets reversed.

It's very, very likely that HF slipped up here. Which means it's very very likely that Vivax is actually mafia, even if the timing stuff weren't very very damning.

Koshi

Belgium38797 Posts

March 20 2014 16:32 GMT

#1990

May I say I never thought giggle was mafia. For the record.

Giggletummy

Pitcairn200 Posts

March 20 2014 16:34 GMT

#1991

Actually, screw the associative stuff with HF. Cuz he is actually mafia. If vivax is town, it's still all about timing and reactions. Something big happens in thread, and HF is the guy who responds incorrectly, not because he disagrees with people and doesn't see why the lying = scummy here, but because of the specific points he's bringing up that aren't applicable or are just poorly reasoned.

As scumHF townVivax, scumHF could still be surprised that all of a sudden thread is jumping on vivax, while HF knows vivax is town. So he does one of those scummy little half-defenses, because he's caught off guard and knows the guy is town.

Giggletummy

Pitcairn200 Posts

March 20 2014 16:38 GMT

#1992

raynpelikoneet

Finland43188 Posts

March 20 2014 16:39 GMT

#1993

So who are you voting for?

raynpelikoneet

Finland43188 Posts

March 20 2014 16:39 GMT

#1994

okay. scum.

Holyflare

United Kingdom30774 Posts

March 20 2014 16:40 GMT

#1995

Um what? If it's a slip then he is town because i say "a town did this in titanic 2" so your point is redundant unless you imply i am doing that but insinuating he is scum by saying a townie did this in titanic 2 so why would my scum partner do it here? Which is completely wifomy.

It's weird because this is a titanic game abd exactly the same thing happened in the last titanic game that is why people being hasty and accepting Rayn's point before fact checking was weird especially as there are instances in this game where rayn has been wrong on wording and misread.

If rayn agreed with my point on you why are you not applying the same logic and calling rayn scum too because he agreed with the same point. If in fact you think rayn is town then by definition his agreeing with that point means that townies agree. It's not even an actual point on why i am scum it's just... Holyflare pointed something about me out! Aha!

Koshi

Belgium38797 Posts

March 20 2014 16:40 GMT

#1996

What hf did was stupid because he never bothered reading the evidence against Vivax. HF will be hard lynch cuz I dont know how he plays town.

Holyflare

United Kingdom30774 Posts

March 20 2014 16:41 GMT

#1997

The point* is referring to your play in really small.

Also in regards to ve, i agreed with him about vivax's early game i thought it was towny, as did palmar as did a few others. Why is it only ve that takes the scum biscuit for that?

Holyflare

United Kingdom30774 Posts

March 20 2014 16:42 GMT

#1998

On March 21 2014 01:40 Koshi wrote:
What hf did was stupid because he never bothered reading the evidence against Vivax. HF will be hard lynch cuz I dont know how he plays town.

I wouldn't be a 1/5th of this games posts (since game start) if i was scum

Hopeless1der

United States5836 Posts

March 20 2014 16:43 GMT

#1999

On March 21 2014 01:42 Holyflare wrote:

Show nested quote +

I wouldn't be a 1/5th of this games posts (since game start) if i was scum

i thought page count didnt matter

Holyflare

United Kingdom30774 Posts

March 20 2014 16:43 GMT