Read this carefully:Game specific and Palmar specific rules:
Cycles The game will start with a 12 hour "No talk" preparation period. The game will then enter it's normal cycle of 24h nights, and variable length days. All night actions must be sent at least an hour before daybreak. I will allow mafia to change shots though if they're around and someone tries to make a resolution-period-claim.
It is very important to respect the "no talking" phases of the game. If you talk during those, I will modkill you without warning. This includes popcorn and gg posts. Just don't.
Voting!
Voting will be done in this thread. You may vote for yourself. You may vote for a no lynch. Vote by typing in the format ##Vote: Marvellosity This game will use Instant Majority Lynch. I will try to post vote counts regularly. Once a person is hammered, please DO NOT POST until a host resolves the flip and the game enters night.
Clues: There are no clues.
PMs PMs are not allowed in this game.
Replacements No replacements. This is a short game, if you can't commit the next week to it, don't sign up. In addition, you're not allowed to talk about getting replaced, or threatening in any way to ask for a replacement or get modkilled. If you do this I will (poetic justice) modkill you.
Language and Spam Feel free to spam. Don't be a dick please. Don't complain if you get lynched for being an asshole.
Activity There are no activity requirements. The rule about playing to win still applies though.
Host Questions At no point are you allowed to use the thread to communicate with the host. If I see a green text asking me something, I will modkill you without warning. You can also not say "I'm going to ask Palmar this" or "I have asked him this" or anything like that. If I think your question warrants the attention of the entire thread, I will just make an announcement and not reveal who asked the question.
Note: It's okay to ask in green, and actually encouraged, before the game starts. The more we can clarify pre-game, the less questions will rise during the game.
Host PMs You can never post any PM from the host, even if you're faking a PM from the host. I will modkill you if you do.
Smurfs: Nope.
Editing: No warnings. Modkill on first offense.
Posting after death: Nope. You can gg, but popcorn, discussion, anything other than one single "gg" is for when the game is over. When hammered or shot, leave the thread.
Look at this big text! It's here to remind you to go back and read the rules to make sure you know what you signed up for. If you post anything more than gg after you die, that means a TL Mafia ban. Don't fuck up.
Alright BH promised me the setup is good. If this game sux I get to blame him. (I wouldn't in if I didn't have every expectation of this game being excellent and the setup being good as well, don't worry).
On February 26 2014 04:04 Blazinghand wrote: It's a really good setup. Also the game is small so it fills with few signups
Let's see...
Victory Odds Town Victory Odds: 54.05% Mafia Victory Odds: 45.95%
Fastest Victory Town: D2 Mafia: D2
Seems pretty good, considering some townie will probably get modkilled anyways...
nobody's going to be modkilled, and if you are calculating it based on random lynching that's like 100% wrong anyways. don't assume nobody will claim cop n0. Don't assume there will be exactly 1 cop claim either
On February 26 2014 06:18 Artanis[Xp] wrote: @Xata not entirely true though. If mafia hit on N0 and N1 and they lynch town then the game is already won by scum after N1.
On February 26 2014 06:18 Artanis[Xp] wrote: @Xata not entirely true though. If mafia hit on N0 and N1 and they lynch town then the game is already won by scum after N1.
Only if they get the doctor in those 3
True, but we're talking about how fast can mafia possibly win
On February 26 2014 04:04 Blazinghand wrote: It's a really good setup. Also the game is small so it fills with few signups
Let's see...
Victory Odds Town Victory Odds: 54.05% Mafia Victory Odds: 45.95%
Fastest Victory Town: D2 Mafia: D2
Seems pretty good, considering some townie will probably get modkilled anyways...
nobody's going to be modkilled, and if you are calculating it based on random lynching that's like 100% wrong anyways. don't assume nobody will claim cop n0. Don't assume there will be exactly 1 cop claim either
I'd say the chances of someone getting modkilled are reasonably high... There's usually at least one modkill / game and this game has unusually strict rules. With that said, there are less players (potential modkills) too, so of course I hope nobody is going to do stupid stuff.
Oops, it's a night start... Missed that for some reason... Then these are the correct numbers:
Victory Odds Town Victory Odds: 46.51% Mafia Victory Odds: 53.49%
Fastest Victory Town: D2 Mafia: D2
Although actually, I think there's something wrong with the way the fastest victory is calculated. I'll have to look into that. It seems like night start messes up things :/
On February 26 2014 06:35 Xatalos wrote: Wait, can't town just pretty easily claim Cop -> heal -> no-lynch until a redcheck? Mafia pretty much has to fakeclaim?
On February 26 2014 06:35 Xatalos wrote: Wait, can't town just pretty easily claim Cop -> heal -> no-lynch until a redcheck? Mafia pretty much has to fakeclaim?
First game didn't have that.but normally town wouldn't be able to talk n0 and thus be unable to protect cop except at random on n0. 50% chance of doc on cop and more with analysis on n0 is op for town
Unless maf is hella lucky in which case the cop will be flipped and there's no way maf claim obviously. But by the same token even if maf hit the cop N0, the game still goes on its not like town straight up lose.
Now, if maf hit the DOCTOR N0, then shenannies start happening because town can't cop claim anymore (unless they cop-checked scum N0).
Observers, you can still ask for invites to obs QT. Sadly there is no obs QT, but Dandel Ion is in charge of making one. I haven't told him that though so be patient with him pls...
It's a quiet night in Liquidia, a small peaceful village that for some reason is filled with people who like to argue with each other. But at least the town is a safe place, with low crime rates
It is now Night 0. The night will end in approx. 24 hours, or Thursday, Feb 27 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00). Remember to send in your actions at least by Thursday, Feb 27 9:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00). Also remember that I will allow mafia to change their night kill if required during the resolution period, but town can not change their actions.
No cop claims n0. Nobody will even suggest discussing whether the cop should claim n0, obviously not. Also no doctor claims.
Also, no demanding who the cop should check. The cop will figure out who he will check. We don't want scum shooting who the cop checks. Obviously we should DISCUSS, but not demand. (ie I won't believe your claim unless you checked X)
We probably SHOULD discuss conditions for the cop claiming D1. We should all come to a consensus about this BEFORE D1. This is because if 6 of us are like "yeah the cop should claim D1" and one of us is like "no he shouldn't" then when there's no cop claim D1 it's obvious that the 7th guy is the cop. In my opinion, by the end of the night we should all SAY that we agree (even if as the cop we wouldn't) with a specific policy of the cop claiming or not claiming because we don't want to give scum hints about who the cop is if we're at N1 and there's no claim yet.
I personally think the cop should claim D1 though so that the doc can just save him N1. It forces scum to CC (or pre-emptive CC or whatever) which gives us a good position. If there's only one cop claim D1, we take him as confirmed town for the day and follow his lead. Obviously, this means that if you're the cop, you sure as hell better claim cop D1, or else the only cop claim will be scum.
Also nobody claim the doctor ._. this should be clear
Oh yeah the cop probably shouldn't claim D1 if he has a green check on a dead guy... except I guess if scum claims cop. Then you want to counterclaim anyways just cause yeah, don't let scum get away with that cowturd
On February 27 2014 07:01 Sn0_Man wrote: How'd BH roll scum twice in a row in this setup?
Well given that 2/7 players are scum it's not that unlikely for a player to roll scum twice in a row, but also I didn't roll scum, I started writing that when Palmar started ticking down the time becuase we have some real chuckleheads in this crowd and I need to make sure nobody does something colossally stupid
actually yeah let me add to this: don't fakeclaim doctor or cop if you are not the doctor or cop. This will only go poorly.
There's also a high chance that Mafia might hit Cop or Doctor at the deadline. But if not, it seems like Cop should claim D1. I don't really see downside to that.
On February 27 2014 07:03 Xatalos wrote: There's also a high chance that Mafia might hit Cop or Doctor at the deadline. But if not, it seems like Cop should claim D1. I don't really see downside to that.
There's also the fact that like 100% of the time a mafia will fakeclaim Cop during D1 so we really really need the real cop to claim so that we don't just go around being terrible
If I was the medic, and the doc claimed (obviously post n0), I'd probably not protect the doc since scum literally can't shoot the doc.
Food for thought/wifom.
I'm also not actually sold on the doc claiming since all it does is pull out a counterclaim from scum. Which would rock if we weren't at lylo. If the doc does claim though, I believe we no-lynch in order to abuse doc checks correct?
On February 27 2014 07:05 JarJarDrinks wrote: If VT dies N0:
- Cop should claim
elseif Doc dies N0:
- Cop should claim ONLY if he has a redcheck
elseif Cop dies N0:
- Maybe Doc should claim. Gonna give this some more thought
If a VT dies N0 the cop should claim if he thinks it's a good idea. I'd say if he has a greencheck on the dead VT, then he shouldn't claim unless scum is fakeclaiming, because otherwise why bother right
if the doc dies n0 the cop should claim only if he has a redcheck or if his greencheck/claim will save him or his target from death, or if scum fakeclaims, which scum definitely will.
On February 27 2014 07:06 Sn0_Man wrote: If I was the medic, and the doc claimed (obviously post n0), I'd probably not protect the doc since scum literally can't shoot the doc.
Food for thought/wifom.
I'm also not actually sold on the doc claiming since all it does is pull out a counterclaim from scum. Which would rock if we weren't at lylo. If the doc does claim though, I believe we no-lynch in order to abuse doc checks correct?
On February 27 2014 07:05 JarJarDrinks wrote: If VT dies N0:
- Cop should claim
elseif Doc dies N0:
- Cop should claim ONLY if he has a redcheck
elseif Cop dies N0:
- Maybe Doc should claim. Gonna give this some more thought
Why should Doc claim in any situation...?
JJD actually probably isn't scum, because scum would know that Doc wouldn't ever claim cause that wouldn't really do anything to hurt scum. Scum would be aware of what tactics blues can use on them because scum has been hanging out chatting for a day now about the setup and claims. Unless JJD is doing a really good job of playing dumb, or he actually is dumb (he isn't), he's town. He clearly hasn't thought this true which is, (sigh), a townie trait.
Also it's probably best for Cop not to claim right away. There could be some juicy information to be had before Mafia can safely take a green/redcheck into account in their plans.
On February 27 2014 07:05 JarJarDrinks wrote: If VT dies N0:
- Cop should claim
elseif Doc dies N0:
- Cop should claim ONLY if he has a redcheck
elseif Cop dies N0:
- Maybe Doc should claim. Gonna give this some more thought
Why should Doc claim in any situation...?
JJD actually probably isn't scum, because scum would know that Doc wouldn't ever claim cause that wouldn't really do anything to hurt scum. Scum would be aware of what tactics blues can use on them because scum has been hanging out chatting for a day now about the setup and claims. Unless JJD is doing a really good job of playing dumb, or he actually is dumb (he isn't), he's town. He clearly hasn't thought this true which is, (sigh), a townie trait.
Yeah, I have a hard time seeing such a blunder from scum. Too stupid to be scum prevails.
On February 27 2014 07:06 Blazinghand wrote: If a VT dies N0 the cop should claim if he thinks it's a good idea. I'd say if he has a greencheck on the dead VT, then he shouldn't claim unless scum is fakeclaiming, because otherwise why bother right
Well we'll be @ mylo. So I think cop claims. Then after the inevitable counter we vote no-lynch. Then @ night we can all vote on 1 player for both cops to check (and for the doctor to heal). This does 1 of several things:
- If they both say scum then no prob, we lynch scum - If they both say town then we have a confirmed town that we'll never lynch. And it's gonna be someone that people are likely suspicious of - If they disagree and the person is scum, the real cop now knows the whole scumteam - If they disagree and the person is town, that person now knows which cop is legit
On February 27 2014 07:05 JarJarDrinks wrote: If VT dies N0:
- Cop should claim
elseif Doc dies N0:
- Cop should claim ONLY if he has a redcheck
elseif Cop dies N0:
- Maybe Doc should claim. Gonna give this some more thought
Why should Doc claim in any situation...?
JJD actually probably isn't scum, because scum would know that Doc wouldn't ever claim cause that wouldn't really do anything to hurt scum. Scum would be aware of what tactics blues can use on them because scum has been hanging out chatting for a day now about the setup and claims. Unless JJD is doing a really good job of playing dumb, or he actually is dumb (he isn't), he's town. He clearly hasn't thought this true which is, (sigh), a townie trait.
Yeah, I have a hard time seeing such a blunder from scum. Too stupid to be scum prevails.
Really what it comes down to is that even if JJD were the kind of guy to not think of this thing as scum, he also has a partner and he's been discussing with his partner for almost 24 hours. Scum NEEDS to fakeclaim in this setup. Whoever our 2 scummers are, they've been thinking about fakeclaiming for almost a day now; how to claim, when to claim, who will counterclaim, and what to claim. They know that Doctor shouldn't just claim willy-nilly. The only situations where that makes sense (ie doctor saves someone N1 and it's D2 and he wants to claim it or something) don't apply during D1 when the claims happen. JJD as scum would have thought this through. He would be trying to amass towncred by making good suggestions, and talking about "maybe the doc should claim if the cop dies n0" really makes no sense. Scum wouldn't even consider it as a threat to deal with.
It's mostly not about "too stupid to be scum" which is false (since a stupid player can of course roll scum) but that scum in this setup almost necessarily already know everything about claiming, and JJD clearly does not. He couldn't have known I'd latch onto this and call him town for it; in fact, an ineffective statement like that is more likely to draw fire than praise, so as scum he'd try to only make true statements rather than things that don't make sense.
On February 27 2014 07:06 Blazinghand wrote: If a VT dies N0 the cop should claim if he thinks it's a good idea. I'd say if he has a greencheck on the dead VT, then he shouldn't claim unless scum is fakeclaiming, because otherwise why bother right
Well we'll be @ mylo. So I think cop claims. Then after the inevitable counter we vote no-lynch. Then @ night we can all vote on 1 player for both cops to check (and for the doctor to heal). This does 1 of several things:
- If they both say scum then no prob, we lynch scum - If they both say town then we have a confirmed town that we'll never lynch. And it's gonna be someone that people are likely suspicious of - If they disagree and the person is scum, the real cop now knows the whole scumteam - If they disagree and the person is town, that person now knows which cop is legit
The scumteam just shoots the real cop in this situation. The fake cop is just very quiet and doesn't say anything as he gets lynched D2. Then the last scum goes into 2-1 LYLO and fakeclaims doctor (or doesn't) and either way has a 50% chance of winning. This might sound silly but I'm just pointing out your plan isn't foolproof. Dirkzor and I as scum last time had a plan like this to subvert a plan like yours.
On February 27 2014 07:05 JarJarDrinks wrote: If VT dies N0:
- Cop should claim
elseif Doc dies N0:
- Cop should claim ONLY if he has a redcheck
elseif Cop dies N0:
- Maybe Doc should claim. Gonna give this some more thought
Why should Doc claim in any situation...?
JJD actually probably isn't scum, because scum would know that Doc wouldn't ever claim cause that wouldn't really do anything to hurt scum. Scum would be aware of what tactics blues can use on them because scum has been hanging out chatting for a day now about the setup and claims. Unless JJD is doing a really good job of playing dumb, or he actually is dumb (he isn't), he's town. He clearly hasn't thought this true which is, (sigh), a townie trait.
Yeah, I have a hard time seeing such a blunder from scum. Too stupid to be scum prevails.
Really what it comes down to is that even if JJD were the kind of guy to not think of this thing as scum, he also has a partner and he's been discussing with his partner for almost 24 hours. Scum NEEDS to fakeclaim in this setup. Whoever our 2 scummers are, they've been thinking about fakeclaiming for almost a day now; how to claim, when to claim, who will counterclaim, and what to claim. They know that Doctor shouldn't just claim willy-nilly. The only situations where that makes sense (ie doctor saves someone N1 and it's D2 and he wants to claim it or something) don't apply during D1 when the claims happen. JJD as scum would have thought this through. He would be trying to amass towncred by making good suggestions, and talking about "maybe the doc should claim if the cop dies n0" really makes no sense. Scum wouldn't even consider it as a threat to deal with.
It's mostly not about "too stupid to be scum" which is false (since a stupid player can of course roll scum) but that scum in this setup almost necessarily already know everything about claiming, and JJD clearly does not. He couldn't have known I'd latch onto this and call him town for it; in fact, an ineffective statement like that is more likely to draw fire than praise, so as scum he'd try to only make true statements rather than things that don't make sense.
I was referring to the fact that it would be too stupid to make a suggestion like that as scum after discussing strategy for 24 hours.
JJD's plan makes a certain amount of sense. It'll depend a lot on the situation though (it might be a useful idea if Mafia hit a VT and it's hard to tell which of the claimers is lying).
If we are about to lynch scum, there WILL be a doc claim. Then the real doc counters and we end up w/ the claim anyway. @ least if we force the claim early, we're making scum commit to their lie before the fact.
On February 27 2014 07:38 Xatalos wrote: Btw Sn0_Man, you think BH's early tryhard makes him scum or that was just a joke?
If I was serious about my scumread I'd be making a case duh.
On February 27 2014 07:38 JarJarDrinks wrote: Here's the other thing w/ the cop dying N0.
If we are about to lynch scum, there WILL be a doc claim. Then the real doc counters and we end up w/ the claim anyway. @ least if we force the claim early, we're making scum commit to their lie before the fact.
On February 27 2014 07:38 JarJarDrinks wrote: Here's the other thing w/ the cop dying N0.
If we are about to lynch scum, there WILL be a doc claim. Then the real doc counters and we end up w/ the claim anyway. @ least if we force the claim early, we're making scum commit to their lie before the fact.
There's merit in forcing scum to act without knowledge of the power roles though. If Cop/Doc just claim right away, scum can plan accordingly and keep their stories straight more easily.
Not to mention that it's wasteful to get a Doc killed for no clear reason.
On February 27 2014 07:38 JarJarDrinks wrote: Here's the other thing w/ the cop dying N0.
If we are about to lynch scum, there WILL be a doc claim. Then the real doc counters and we end up w/ the claim anyway. @ least if we force the claim early, we're making scum commit to their lie before the fact.
or, we mislynch and go into N1 with zero chance of survival because scum will just shoot the doctor -.-
I don't really think there is any good situation for a Doc to claim unless it's to clearly save himself or another townie (that was NK'd earlier, for example).
On February 27 2014 07:02 Blazinghand wrote: actually yeah let me add to this: don't fakeclaim doctor or cop if you are not the doctor or cop. This will only go poorly.
On February 27 2014 07:02 Blazinghand wrote: actually yeah let me add to this: don't fakeclaim doctor or cop if you are not the doctor or cop. This will only go poorly.
Aww I kinda thought about this
ALSO DON'T CLAIM VT CAUSE IT MAKES IT EASIER FOR SCUM TO SHOOT THE COP/DOC.
On February 27 2014 07:02 Blazinghand wrote: actually yeah let me add to this: don't fakeclaim doctor or cop if you are not the doctor or cop. This will only go poorly.
Aww I kinda thought about this
ALSO DON'T CLAIM VT CAUSE IT MAKES IT EASIER FOR SCUM TO SHOOT THE COP/DOC.
OK I really super duper hope Artanis is actually like a Cop and now scum won't shoot him because he just claimed VT. Actually, given how smart Artanis is, there's a nontrivial chance that that is the case, which means his softclaim of VT is actually not in fact role-indicative! He could be the cop/doc, he could not be the cop/doc! there's no way for scum to know based on Artanis' posts whether or not he is a blue, assuming of course Art is in fact town.
On February 27 2014 07:38 JarJarDrinks wrote: Here's the other thing w/ the cop dying N0.
If we are about to lynch scum, there WILL be a doc claim. Then the real doc counters and we end up w/ the claim anyway. @ least if we force the claim early, we're making scum commit to their lie before the fact.
or, we mislynch and go into N1 with zero chance of survival because scum will just shoot the doctor -.-
But we will mislynch if there is no claim. So you're saying that you prefer to put all of our eggs in the docs basket and pray for a hero heal. Cause that's the only way we win if the cop dies night 0 and the doc doesn't claim D1.
On February 27 2014 07:38 JarJarDrinks wrote: Here's the other thing w/ the cop dying N0.
If we are about to lynch scum, there WILL be a doc claim. Then the real doc counters and we end up w/ the claim anyway. @ least if we force the claim early, we're making scum commit to their lie before the fact.
or, we mislynch and go into N1 with zero chance of survival because scum will just shoot the doctor -.-
But we will mislynch if there is no claim. So you're saying that you prefer to put all of our eggs in the docs basket and pray for a hero heal. Cause that's the only way we win if the cop dies night 0 and the doc doesn't claim D1.
On February 27 2014 07:02 Blazinghand wrote: actually yeah let me add to this: don't fakeclaim doctor or cop if you are not the doctor or cop. This will only go poorly.
Aww I kinda thought about this
ALSO DON'T CLAIM VT CAUSE IT MAKES IT EASIER FOR SCUM TO SHOOT THE COP/DOC.
It's all a big WIFOM anyways. He could as well be saying this as non-VT.
On February 27 2014 07:38 JarJarDrinks wrote: Here's the other thing w/ the cop dying N0.
If we are about to lynch scum, there WILL be a doc claim. Then the real doc counters and we end up w/ the claim anyway. @ least if we force the claim early, we're making scum commit to their lie before the fact.
or, we mislynch and go into N1 with zero chance of survival because scum will just shoot the doctor -.-
But we will mislynch if there is no claim. So you're saying that you prefer to put all of our eggs in the docs basket and pray for a hero heal. Cause that's the only way we win if the cop dies night 0 and the doc doesn't claim D1.
We WILL mislynch if there is no doc claim? Wat. We can lynch just fine if there's no doc claim. The fact of the matter is, if the doc claims and we mislynch we 100% lose N1. You're the one putting all the eggs in one basket by not giving us a second shot at a lynch in case we screw up
On February 27 2014 07:47 Sn0_Man wrote: how many levels deep of "they know that we know that they know that we know..." did you go?
Anything is possible, but JJD seems sincere enough to me. It'd be a risky WIFOM-play to do that and I doubt it's some master plan they prepared for N0........
On February 27 2014 07:47 Blazinghand wrote: Actually, given how smart Artanis is, there's a nontrivial chance that that is the case, which means his softclaim of VT is actually not in fact role-indicative!
On February 27 2014 07:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Basically no one should vote until town collectively decided on a lynch.
Maybe we should pseudo-vote before executing the actual vote?
That wouldn't apply pressure appropriately. We should just be aware that putting someone at Hammer-2 is the same as hammering them basically if they are town and all the voters are scum.
On February 27 2014 07:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Basically no one should vote until town collectively decided on a lynch.
Maybe we should pseudo-vote before executing the actual vote?
yeah, we should. Something like ##HazingBland Xatalos would be neat. Then when someone reaches a majority of HazingBlands they should claim. Clearly you need to be hesitant with the use of HazingBlands.
On February 27 2014 07:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Basically no one should vote until town collectively decided on a lynch.
Maybe we should pseudo-vote before executing the actual vote?
That wouldn't apply pressure appropriately. We should just be aware that putting someone at Hammer-2 is the same as hammering them basically if they are town and all the voters are scum.
Yeah, true. I don't think I'll be voting until I'm very confident that I want to lynch.
On February 27 2014 07:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Basically no one should vote until town collectively decided on a lynch.
Maybe we should pseudo-vote before executing the actual vote?
yeah, we should. Something like ##HazingBland Xatalos would be neat. Then when someone reaches a majority of HazingBlands they should claim. Clearly you need to be hesitant with the use of HazingBlands.
BH does have a point though. It's not nearly as much pressure as having 2-3 actual votes.
On February 27 2014 07:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Basically no one should vote until town collectively decided on a lynch.
Maybe we should pseudo-vote before executing the actual vote?
yeah, we should. Something like ##HazingBland Xatalos would be neat. Then when someone reaches a majority of HazingBlands they should claim. Clearly you need to be hesitant with the use of HazingBlands.
BH does have a point though. It's not nearly as much pressure as having 2-3 actual votes.
I think it's the same as a vote in a non-IML game. If everyone uses it that way, it's the same kind of pressure.
On February 27 2014 07:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Sn0 why'd you check me? I'm confirmed town for having fun.
You did seem all angry when you bussed me all game last time around
I know! It's an actual tell. I hate playing scum. 4/6 scum in last few games too. Anyway BlazingHand said a bunch of sensible stuff which I all agree with other than that my beautiful vote system wouldn't work. Cop and medic (not) claiming stuff all makes sense.
I used to like playing as scum (against newbies) but then I took an arrow to the knee. Or rather, I got caught pretty easily several times in a row. It's great to make a comeback as town.
Actually explain the BH scumread tomorrow to me if we're both alive. Should follow my own advice. Playing town is nice. Town. It rolls so nicely. Scum sounds bad. I like town.
I'm not sure if sharing scumreads is a good thing during the night. Would like other people's input on it before we continue. I think townreads are a bad idea to share though.
On January 14 2014 09:11 Blazinghand wrote: Bum is a mason with me and hopeless1
On December 17 2013 16:44 Blazinghand wrote: if we dont' lynch xig today we'll never be rid of him
people talk about policy lynching lurkers but nobody has the brass ones to actually do it. come on guys, what are you gonna do, hope the kid gets modkilled? join me. you don't have a townread on xig. you never will.
we need to take out the trash
Although it hurts me to use an argument like this, but his entrance seemed more like a prepared scum strategy rather than his normal playstyle :/
I'm not sure myself. It could help scum to choose their NK, but it could also help Cop/Doc to choose their targets. Mafia tend to benefit from silence, but there's not *that* much to be done without the ability to vote anyways... No real pressure can be made etc... Maybe it's better not to be so open yet.
Yeah, also the only one that can act tonight is the cop. Thinking of if working down to a list of 2-3 players to check into is positive. It might be given that scum probably isn't stupid and won't shoot the scummiest looking players anyway. Gonna wait for other players to input on that before I comment on the BH thing though. No need to rush, we still have time.
On February 27 2014 08:10 Xatalos wrote: Hm. I just somehow dislike his very tryhard and focused early play. My recent memories of him being town are him being completely useless.
On February 27 2014 08:10 Xatalos wrote: Hm. I just somehow dislike his very tryhard and focused early play. My recent memories of him being town are him being completely useless.
On February 27 2014 08:10 Xatalos wrote: Hm. I just somehow dislike his very tryhard and focused early play. My recent memories of him being town are him being completely useless.
That's overblown. You're never quite like *that*. It's just that your early posts all made sense and were constructive. It feels weird to hold that against someone, but......... You know.... It feels weird.
On February 27 2014 08:38 Xatalos wrote: That's overblown. You're never quite like *that*. It's just that your early posts all made sense and were constructive. It feels weird to hold that against someone, but......... You know.... It feels weird.
"BH is being helpful, making sense and constructed" -> "BH is scum"
On February 27 2014 08:38 Xatalos wrote: That's overblown. You're never quite like *that*. It's just that your early posts all made sense and were constructive. It feels weird to hold that against someone, but......... You know.... It feels weird.
"BH is being helpful, making sense and constructed" -> "BH is scum"
On February 27 2014 08:32 Artanis[Xp] wrote: BH INPUT ON SHARING SCUMREADS GO
It's fine, just don't go naming townreads unless they're people you're okay with them dying
On reflection I feel the same way. Good way to get reads out before you die too, given there's a 20% chance for all of us dying. What do you make of Xatalos? I'm actually a bit worried with how easily he posted the list giving townreads. Could get other people to comment/address them which would give scum a better picture of whom to shoot (if they're not bluesniping) or try to lynch. He pretty much had to townread me or I'd know he's scum from our previous game. The reasoning he gave for calling you scum was something that makes me doubt it though. Doesn't seem like the kind of justification scum would use.
BH did you think of all the stuff you posted before you received your alignment? Presuming you're not going to claim scum would you have done anything differently if you were scum?
On February 27 2014 07:38 JarJarDrinks wrote: Here's the other thing w/ the cop dying N0.
If we are about to lynch scum, there WILL be a doc claim. Then the real doc counters and we end up w/ the claim anyway. @ least if we force the claim early, we're making scum commit to their lie before the fact.
or, we mislynch and go into N1 with zero chance of survival because scum will just shoot the doctor -.-
But we will mislynch if there is no claim. So you're saying that you prefer to put all of our eggs in the docs basket and pray for a hero heal. Cause that's the only way we win if the cop dies night 0 and the doc doesn't claim D1.
We WILL mislynch if there is no doc claim? Wat. We can lynch just fine if there's no doc claim. The fact of the matter is, if the doc claims and we mislynch we 100% lose N1. You're the one putting all the eggs in one basket by not giving us a second shot at a lynch in case we screw up
Yes, if scum is about to be lynched, he WILL claim doctor. Do you disagree?
On February 27 2014 07:38 JarJarDrinks wrote: Here's the other thing w/ the cop dying N0.
If we are about to lynch scum, there WILL be a doc claim. Then the real doc counters and we end up w/ the claim anyway. @ least if we force the claim early, we're making scum commit to their lie before the fact.
or, we mislynch and go into N1 with zero chance of survival because scum will just shoot the doctor -.-
But we will mislynch if there is no claim. So you're saying that you prefer to put all of our eggs in the docs basket and pray for a hero heal. Cause that's the only way we win if the cop dies night 0 and the doc doesn't claim D1.
We WILL mislynch if there is no doc claim? Wat. We can lynch just fine if there's no doc claim. The fact of the matter is, if the doc claims and we mislynch we 100% lose N1. You're the one putting all the eggs in one basket by not giving us a second shot at a lynch in case we screw up
Yes, if scum is about to be lynched, he WILL claim doctor. Do you disagree?
Yes I disagree because the D1 lynch will be between two 'cops', so the guy we're lynching has already claimed something else. No reason for doc to claim before D2.
On February 27 2014 07:38 JarJarDrinks wrote: Here's the other thing w/ the cop dying N0.
If we are about to lynch scum, there WILL be a doc claim. Then the real doc counters and we end up w/ the claim anyway. @ least if we force the claim early, we're making scum commit to their lie before the fact.
or, we mislynch and go into N1 with zero chance of survival because scum will just shoot the doctor -.-
But we will mislynch if there is no claim. So you're saying that you prefer to put all of our eggs in the docs basket and pray for a hero heal. Cause that's the only way we win if the cop dies night 0 and the doc doesn't claim D1.
We WILL mislynch if there is no doc claim? Wat. We can lynch just fine if there's no doc claim. The fact of the matter is, if the doc claims and we mislynch we 100% lose N1. You're the one putting all the eggs in one basket by not giving us a second shot at a lynch in case we screw up
Yes, if scum is about to be lynched, he WILL claim doctor. Do you disagree?
Yes I disagree because the D1 lynch will be between two 'cops', so the guy we're lynching has already claimed something else. No reason for doc to claim before D2.
This entire conversation is based on if the cop is shot N0.
On February 27 2014 07:38 JarJarDrinks wrote: Here's the other thing w/ the cop dying N0.
If we are about to lynch scum, there WILL be a doc claim. Then the real doc counters and we end up w/ the claim anyway. @ least if we force the claim early, we're making scum commit to their lie before the fact.
or, we mislynch and go into N1 with zero chance of survival because scum will just shoot the doctor -.-
But we will mislynch if there is no claim. So you're saying that you prefer to put all of our eggs in the docs basket and pray for a hero heal. Cause that's the only way we win if the cop dies night 0 and the doc doesn't claim D1.
We WILL mislynch if there is no doc claim? Wat. We can lynch just fine if there's no doc claim. The fact of the matter is, if the doc claims and we mislynch we 100% lose N1. You're the one putting all the eggs in one basket by not giving us a second shot at a lynch in case we screw up
Yes, if scum is about to be lynched, he WILL claim doctor. Do you disagree?
Yes I disagree because the D1 lynch will be between two 'cops', so the guy we're lynching has already claimed something else. No reason for doc to claim before D2.
This entire conversation is based on if the cop is shot N0.
On February 27 2014 08:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote: BH did you think of all the stuff you posted before you received your alignment? Presuming you're not going to claim scum would you have done anything differently if you were scum?
1. No, not all of it. 2. Yes
I had long snarky responses about how phenomenally terrible your questions were but you don't deserve to be educated.
On February 27 2014 08:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote: BH did you think of all the stuff you posted before you received your alignment? Presuming you're not going to claim scum would you have done anything differently if you were scum?
1. No, not all of it. 2. Yes
I had long snarky responses about how phenomenally terrible your questions were but you don't deserve to be educated.
I would type long snarky responses to those long snarky responses if you had written them. You made the right decision, punk.
On February 27 2014 12:04 Blazinghand wrote: so do you have any thoughts based on my answers, or have you too realized how vapid and irrelevant the initial questions were?
On February 27 2014 07:38 JarJarDrinks wrote: Here's the other thing w/ the cop dying N0.
If we are about to lynch scum, there WILL be a doc claim. Then the real doc counters and we end up w/ the claim anyway. @ least if we force the claim early, we're making scum commit to their lie before the fact.
or, we mislynch and go into N1 with zero chance of survival because scum will just shoot the doctor -.-
But we will mislynch if there is no claim. So you're saying that you prefer to put all of our eggs in the docs basket and pray for a hero heal. Cause that's the only way we win if the cop dies night 0 and the doc doesn't claim D1.
Doc doesn't need to claim D1 if he's not in any real danger of being lynched. Being IML it's not like we have to rush any decisions on who to lynch so it's pretty easy for the Doc to make a judgement call on whether or not to claim. Should we have the opportunity to mask who is the real Doc, we obviously should take it.
That said, being 4-2 after tonight probably means we are no lynching unless there's a scum slip sometime anyways.
On February 27 2014 07:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Basically no one should vote until town collectively decided on a lynch.
Maybe we should pseudo-vote before executing the actual vote?
That wouldn't apply pressure appropriately. We should just be aware that putting someone at Hammer-2 is the same as hammering them basically if they are town and all the voters are scum.
There's no real pressure we can apply with voting though, Hammer-2 is 2 votes. That means we can really only have 1 person on the pressured person (assume no scum voted yet)?
On February 27 2014 08:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm curious though, do you think it's a good idea to share scumreads right now? I'm pretty torn.
Doesn't sharing scumreads just reduce the targets to essentially an agreed list of town should more people share their reads and then scum collates that information? Cop should prob be competent enough to figure out who to check anyways.. imo only share if it's pretty important / big.
On February 27 2014 07:38 JarJarDrinks wrote: Here's the other thing w/ the cop dying N0.
If we are about to lynch scum, there WILL be a doc claim. Then the real doc counters and we end up w/ the claim anyway. @ least if we force the claim early, we're making scum commit to their lie before the fact.
or, we mislynch and go into N1 with zero chance of survival because scum will just shoot the doctor -.-
But we will mislynch if there is no claim. So you're saying that you prefer to put all of our eggs in the docs basket and pray for a hero heal. Cause that's the only way we win if the cop dies night 0 and the doc doesn't claim D1.
We WILL mislynch if there is no doc claim? Wat. We can lynch just fine if there's no doc claim. The fact of the matter is, if the doc claims and we mislynch we 100% lose N1. You're the one putting all the eggs in one basket by not giving us a second shot at a lynch in case we screw up
Yes, if scum is about to be lynched, he WILL claim doctor. Do you disagree?
I would agree, but I can see the next level play in not claiming and the scum about to be lynched worming their way out that way too :\
That said, I'm looking through these possible cases and it's not even that pretty: Scum claims, real doc CCs, scum dies. 3-1 after NK. Real doc claims, scum CCs, doc dies, 2-2 gg?
I'm feeling more like there's no chance in hell we will be able to get a good lynch off D1.
I think that its far more advantagous to just play normally rather than be scared of a townie being killed because scum know who the good townies are and they are gonna die anyway regardless of how we feel.
On February 27 2014 14:08 Oatsmaster wrote: so BH is good townie, xata and artanis slightly less so and I dont really think JarJar is town just for being noob.
Explain how I'm being noob please. I think I defended the doctor claim thing pretty well. In fact I'm curious how anyone can disagree w/ me on it @ this point.
On February 27 2014 14:01 Oatsmaster wrote: syl why did you just reiterate everything that people said in the thread so far. Also its 4-2 tmr so 33% chance we lynch scum. Ezpz.
because I was writing stuff as I was reading and I cbf deleting once I write it.
Also, that's 66% chance we lose the game -_-
With a claim it's 60% still :S
With a confirmed cop claim on an alive town that's 50%.
On February 27 2014 14:08 Oatsmaster wrote: so BH is good townie, xata and artanis slightly less so and I dont really think JarJar is town just for being noob.
Explain how I'm being noob please. I think I defended the doctor claim thing pretty well. In fact I'm curious how anyone can disagree w/ me on it @ this point.
>>??? thats not the point im making. You want me to call you scum?
On February 27 2014 14:05 Oatsmaster wrote: I think that its far more advantagous to just play normally rather than be scared of a townie being killed because scum know who the good townies are and they are gonna die anyway regardless of how we feel.
I almost agree... but there's the fact that we can't really afford even one mislynch, so a bit more caution than usual is needed. We might have no choice if Cop/Doc gets NK'd, but if we have a choice, I'd rather prolong the game for the sake of having more time to scumhunt + more info from Cop hopefully.
On February 27 2014 14:08 Oatsmaster wrote: so BH is good townie, xata and artanis slightly less so and I dont really think JarJar is town just for being noob.
Explain how I'm being noob please. I think I defended the doctor claim thing pretty well. In fact I'm curious how anyone can disagree w/ me on it @ this point.
I think he meant that it wasn't enough of a reason to mark you as town for being noob initially. I guess you do have a point with your speculation, but I also want to see more from you outside of that Doctor thing. Do you have any reads yet? Or maybe it's better not to share freely yet. But do you have opinions on other topics?
On February 27 2014 15:32 Xatalos wrote: I hope Sylencia is preparing an epic post right now
I wish, I was afk.
On February 27 2014 14:59 Oatsmaster wrote: keep talking. Why is sn0 contribution lackluster?
The only thought he's provided was a pretty obvious medic-cop wifom play for Night 1, in which he assumes both cop and medic are alive. Other than that, he's just been echoing the previous poster's points.
Eh, again this case isn't even really a case it's just he's the only one of the group (excluding me) whose posts didn't really make any impact.
On February 27 2014 14:59 Oatsmaster wrote: keep talking. Why is sn0 contribution lackluster?
The only thought he's provided was a pretty obvious medic-cop wifom play for Night 1, in which he assumes both cop and medic are alive. Other than that, he's just been echoing the previous poster's points.
Eh, again this case isn't even really a case it's just he's the only one of the group (excluding me) whose posts didn't really make any impact.
Oh, to clarify, that 'group' is the group that posted in the morning, so Oats is excluded.
Xata, how does it benefit town if we dont discuss who is scum at all? You seem really twisted on that issue.
BH would advocate mass claims all the way imo as scum because he is the only person that played this setup before and it doesnt feel like he is taking advantage of his knowledge to propose something scum favored.
On February 27 2014 16:09 Oatsmaster wrote: Xata, how does it benefit town if we dont discuss who is scum at all? You seem really twisted on that issue.
BH would advocate mass claims all the way imo as scum because he is the only person that played this setup before and it doesnt feel like he is taking advantage of his knowledge to propose something scum favored.
It just seems like scum would benefit more from narrowing down their kill targets than town from narrowing down Cop targets right now. We can't even really pressure (without voting power) yet.
But on the other hand, if we just sit and wait for deadline, scum can also benefit from the silence.
Why would scum openly advocate something scum-favored? I don't really get your point.
I'm just saying that it's unlikely for an experienced scum player to advocate something that A) is unlikely to succeed B) makes himself look more suspicious.
Actually, tbh I don't think discussing scumreads influences much at all - scum probably aren't even targeting the most townie member tonight if they can get an inkling of who is a blue role.
So really, advocating discussing scum reads or not doesn't matter, but saying not to discuss (which in theory makes it harder for scum to choose an NK target) makes you look townier?
Hm, I dunno. I tried to bluehunt a lot in Titanic (as scum) and it was all in vain. It's not so easy to find blues unless they make obvious breadcrumbs or something like that. Although I guess there are some ways to figure it out, especially with this few players.
Another reason to be less open for now would be to damage scum's bluehunting efforts, I guess?
But then again, it's pretty painful to talk about anything if scumhunting is out of the question. This is why I don't really like night starts that much.
On February 27 2014 16:31 Xatalos wrote: I'm just saying that it's unlikely for an experienced scum player to advocate something that A) is unlikely to succeed B) makes himself look more suspicious.
Im saying that we wouldnt know that its A or B but he would because he played this setup before.
On February 27 2014 16:31 Xatalos wrote: I'm just saying that it's unlikely for an experienced scum player to advocate something that A) is unlikely to succeed B) makes himself look more suspicious.
Im saying that we wouldnt know that its A or B but he would because he played this setup before.
It would be pretty stupid for all the blue roles to claim in any setup (unless like 40-50% of the roles were blue roles). I just don't get why he's super-town for NOT doing something scummy that clearly would be scummy and wouldn't almost certainly achieve anything.
On February 27 2014 16:31 Xatalos wrote: I'm just saying that it's unlikely for an experienced scum player to advocate something that A) is unlikely to succeed B) makes himself look more suspicious.
Im saying that we wouldnt know that its A or B but he would because he played this setup before.
It would be pretty stupid for all the blue roles to claim in any setup (unless like 40-50% of the roles were blue roles). I just don't get why he's super-town for NOT doing something scummy that clearly would be scummy and wouldn't almost certainly achieve anything.
why are you so resistant to the idea that BH is town? Is there something scummy you see?
On February 27 2014 16:31 Xatalos wrote: I'm just saying that it's unlikely for an experienced scum player to advocate something that A) is unlikely to succeed B) makes himself look more suspicious.
Im saying that we wouldnt know that its A or B but he would because he played this setup before.
It would be pretty stupid for all the blue roles to claim in any setup (unless like 40-50% of the roles were blue roles). I just don't get why he's super-town for NOT doing something scummy that clearly would be scummy and wouldn't almost certainly achieve anything.
why are you so resistant to the idea that BH is town? Is there something scummy you see?
It's more along the lines of "why is Oats so convinced of BH being town for no real reason"?
On February 27 2014 14:05 Oatsmaster wrote: I think that its far more advantagous to just play normally rather than be scared of a townie being killed because scum know who the good townies are and they are gonna die anyway regardless of how we feel.
I think this is awful. If they can't find blues they're going to shoot at the strongest townies and if no one actually shares their strongest townreads scum could have no idea who they are. I also don't like how you bring this up after we've already discussed why it's bad.
Also BH advocating "mass claims" as scum when this setup excludes the doc from saving anyone N0 is pretty pants on head. Oats #1 scum SEA
Oats also keeps going on the offensive whenever he's attacked for something and twists whatever he's attacking. Xatalos asking Oats why his scumread is town, rescinds the request, and despite Oats saying beforehand that it's good to share scumreads he goes and says sharing scumreads is good without sharing why he thinks BH is supertown.
On February 27 2014 23:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Oats also keeps going on the offensive whenever he's attacked for something and twists whatever he's attacking. Xatalos asking Oats why his scumread is town, rescinds the request, and despite Oats saying beforehand that it's good to share scumreads he goes and says sharing scumreads is good without sharing why he thinks BH is supertown.
yes good artanis town. Nice. I did it intentionally to see who would pick up on it.
On February 27 2014 23:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Oats also keeps going on the offensive whenever he's attacked for something and twists whatever he's attacking. Xatalos asking Oats why his scumread is town, rescinds the request, and despite Oats saying beforehand that it's good to share scumreads he goes and says sharing scumreads is good without sharing why he thinks BH is supertown.
yes good artanis town. Nice. I did it intentionally to see who would pick up on it.
How is noticing your lack of logic in any way alignment indicative? And what could you possibly achieve by "baiting" town by playing irrationally?
On February 27 2014 23:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Oats also keeps going on the offensive whenever he's attacked for something and twists whatever he's attacking. Xatalos asking Oats why his scumread is town, rescinds the request, and despite Oats saying beforehand that it's good to share scumreads he goes and says sharing scumreads is good without sharing why he thinks BH is supertown.
yes good artanis town. Nice. I did it intentionally to see who would pick up on it.
How is noticing your lack of logic in any way alignment indicative? And what could you possibly achieve by "baiting" town by playing irrationally?
to find out who is paying attention and who doesnt give a shit. You clearly pay less attention than Artanis.
On February 28 2014 01:07 JarJarDrinks wrote: So what's he consenses? Should we post who we suspect/who we want the cop to check?
Yeah I get that scum killing the cops target would suck but @ least we'd be getting rid of a townie that people are suspecting.
Looking from scum's perspective, it's probably slightly more beneficial for them if we claim all our reads now. It might be a good idea to post your thoughts right before deadline though.
On February 27 2014 23:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Oats also keeps going on the offensive whenever he's attacked for something and twists whatever he's attacking. Xatalos asking Oats why his scumread is town, rescinds the request, and despite Oats saying beforehand that it's good to share scumreads he goes and says sharing scumreads is good without sharing why he thinks BH is supertown.
yes good artanis town. Nice. I did it intentionally to see who would pick up on it.
How is noticing your lack of logic in any way alignment indicative? And what could you possibly achieve by "baiting" town by playing irrationally?
to find out who is paying attention and who doesnt give a shit. You clearly pay less attention than Artanis.
Or it could be that I'm trying not to share all my reads and observations yet.
On February 28 2014 01:23 Oatsmaster wrote: I would love it if scum kills a scummy townie. Much better than scum killing a townie that is good. Why are you guys so fixated on night actions.
Even if you think it's more beneficial to share reads right now, just as NK decisions are being made, it's blatantly false to say that there's "literally no reason" not to.
On February 28 2014 01:28 Xatalos wrote: Even if you think it's more beneficial to share reads right now, just as NK decisions are being made, it's blatantly false to say that there's "literally no reason" not to.
So the reason is that instead of playing the game, you pussy about doing nothing? that helps town. a lot.
Posting reads in the thread actually gives you insight into what scum is thinking cuz they are guaranteed to take ur reads into account when making NK's.
Ok, I think the benefits of giving reads outweighs the downsides.
This post from Sn0 is scummy to me:
On February 27 2014 07:06 Sn0_Man wrote: If I was the medic, and the doc claimed (obviously post n0), I'd probably not protect the doc since scum literally can't shoot the doc.
K, he typod here. Sentence should read as:
"If I was the medic, and the COP claimed (obviously post n0), I'd probably not protect the COP since scum literally can't shoot the COP. "
To me this sounds like a scum mindset. A townie would say "I'd probably not protect the either of the claimed COPs" The way he words it makes it seem like he knows who the real cop is gonna be.
u were demonstrably incorrect about the claiming logic early game. Which BH was quick to point out meant that ur probably town cuz u didn't think through claims.
On February 28 2014 01:28 Xatalos wrote: Even if you think it's more beneficial to share reads right now, just as NK decisions are being made, it's blatantly false to say that there's "literally no reason" not to.
So the reason is that instead of playing the game, you pussy about doing nothing? that helps town. a lot.
To be fair, I've shared more of my reads so far than you have...
On February 28 2014 01:53 Sn0_Man wrote: u were demonstrably incorrect about the claiming logic early game. Which BH was quick to point out meant that ur probably town cuz u didn't think through claims.
We can discuss the whole "doc claims if cop dies" debate again if you want but I feel like I won that argument.
On February 27 2014 23:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Oats also keeps going on the offensive whenever he's attacked for something and twists whatever he's attacking. Xatalos asking Oats why his scumread is town, rescinds the request, and despite Oats saying beforehand that it's good to share scumreads he goes and says sharing scumreads is good without sharing why he thinks BH is supertown.
yes good artanis town. Nice. I did it intentionally to see who would pick up on it.
How is noticing your lack of logic in any way alignment indicative? And what could you possibly achieve by "baiting" town by playing irrationally?
to find out who is paying attention and who doesnt give a shit. You clearly pay less attention than Artanis.
Or it could be that I'm trying not to share all my reads and observations yet.
We concluded that sharing scumreads is probably a good idea. Are you saying you observed what I did but purposefully didn't share it?
On February 28 2014 01:56 Oatsmaster wrote: He isnt incorrect here though. Did you scumslip sn0
did u miss the part where i said "still wrong"?
there's no mention of a counterclaim in that post cuz i was wifom'ing the no-counter-claim scenario.
in the counter claim scenario I don't think u protect either cop.
I saw no indication that you were talking about wifom for a no counter scenario. You said "scum literally can't shoot the [cop]" The only reason that would be true is because of a counter.
not to mention the fact that you know there will be a counter since you made this post before roles were sent:
On February 26 2014 07:06 Sn0_Man wrote: Of course there will be a counter.
Unless maf is hella lucky in which case the cop will be flipped and there's no way maf claim obviously. But by the same token even if maf hit the cop N0, the game still goes on its not like town straight up lose.
Now, if maf hit the DOCTOR N0, then shenannies start happening because town can't cop claim anymore (unless they cop-checked scum N0).
On February 27 2014 23:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Oats also keeps going on the offensive whenever he's attacked for something and twists whatever he's attacking. Xatalos asking Oats why his scumread is town, rescinds the request, and despite Oats saying beforehand that it's good to share scumreads he goes and says sharing scumreads is good without sharing why he thinks BH is supertown.
yes good artanis town. Nice. I did it intentionally to see who would pick up on it.
How is noticing your lack of logic in any way alignment indicative? And what could you possibly achieve by "baiting" town by playing irrationally?
to find out who is paying attention and who doesnt give a shit. You clearly pay less attention than Artanis.
Or it could be that I'm trying not to share all my reads and observations yet.
We concluded that sharing scumreads is probably a good idea. Are you saying you observed what I did but purposefully didn't share it?
We never came to any clear conclusion about how we should handle our reads before N0 deadline. I still don't think it's the correct action to share everything unless it's RIGHT before the deadline that you want to do that.
Actually Oats did share his reason, but the reason was just plain bad. So I concluded that A) he's scum and trying to justify a read without any true reasoning B) there's more to it (a blueread or something else that he doesn't want to share yet).
On February 28 2014 02:23 Sn0_Man wrote:And yes, you just identified the part where I said u were full of bad ideas and right around there BH chipped in with "well that makes JJD town".
So why were you pissed about it? Didn't you think "Maybe he's right"?
On February 28 2014 02:23 Sn0_Man wrote: 48 hours earlier I believed there had to be a counter. I actually think the no-counter game is playable for scum atm.
On February 27 2014 23:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Oats also keeps going on the offensive whenever he's attacked for something and twists whatever he's attacking. Xatalos asking Oats why his scumread is town, rescinds the request, and despite Oats saying beforehand that it's good to share scumreads he goes and says sharing scumreads is good without sharing why he thinks BH is supertown.
yes good artanis town. Nice. I did it intentionally to see who would pick up on it.
How is noticing your lack of logic in any way alignment indicative? And what could you possibly achieve by "baiting" town by playing irrationally?
to find out who is paying attention and who doesnt give a shit. You clearly pay less attention than Artanis.
Or it could be that I'm trying not to share all my reads and observations yet.
We concluded that sharing scumreads is probably a good idea. Are you saying you observed what I did but purposefully didn't share it?
We never came to any clear conclusion about how we should handle our reads before N0 deadline. I still don't think it's the correct action to share everything unless it's RIGHT before the deadline that you want to do that.
Actually Oats did share his reason, but the reason was just plain bad. So I concluded that A) he's scum and trying to justify a read without any true reasoning B) there's more to it (a blueread or something else that he doesn't want to share yet).
On February 25 2014 20:01 Palmar wrote: All night actions must be sent at least an hour before daybreak. I will allow mafia to change shots though if they're around and someone tries to make a resolution-period-claim.
In case I happen to die an early death, here are my early reads to consider.
Artanis 99.99% town. If he's Mafia, I will salute his extreme efforts to radically change his style and basically scream town with his every action (compared to Titanic where he just lurked and bussed me... it's almost impossible to compare these two games).
JJD Pretty sure he's town. He's seemed very convinced of his own ideas and has pushed them in a way that's felt genuine. He also made some decent points about Sn0_Man.
Sylencia A big null. He hasn't really contributed anything or taken any stances. Originally I thought more town... For example this post felt like he was actually thinking about the game:
On February 27 2014 16:33 Sylencia wrote: Actually, tbh I don't think discussing scumreads influences much at all - scum probably aren't even targeting the most townie member tonight if they can get an inkling of who is a blue role.
So really, advocating discussing scum reads or not doesn't matter, but saying not to discuss (which in theory makes it harder for scum to choose an NK target) makes you look townier?
I think I confused myself writing this.
But on further inspection, not so much. Maybe slightly Mafia for just being so lackluster overall.
BH I haven't really figured him out yet. His extremely tryhard start and then just disappearing into uselessness caused me to see red (I really dislike when someone gets less useful as the game goes on - it's typical for Mafia). But he could be just trolling for N0 or something. Null for now.
Oatsmaster He's been pretty active and had a presence in the discussion, which I like. But some of his filter just doesn't make sense. For example, his (non-)reason to strongly townread BH and his attempt to "bait town" (why would only town attack a lynchbait?). Pretty null for now.
Sn0_Man (!) I don't really like him so far. He's being so casually lurky and just suggesting stuff rather than pushing things forward:
On February 27 2014 07:44 Sn0_Man wrote: oke jjd is actively promoting ways for town to lose tho wtf
On February 27 2014 07:47 Sn0_Man wrote: how many levels deep of "they know that we know that they know that we know..." did you go?
On February 28 2014 01:02 Sn0_Man wrote: Oke u guys didn't even solve the game wtf
On February 28 2014 01:41 Sn0_Man wrote: Posting reads in the thread actually gives you insight into what scum is thinking cuz they are guaranteed to take ur reads into account when making NK's.
It can't be bad. If only I had reads.
He's basically a slight / medium scumread right now. He's never directly pushing his opinions and only suggests stuff indirectly or reacts to other posts. I don't like, at all. He needs to seriously step up if he wants to look like a townie. And he also needs some more pressure.
On February 28 2014 01:56 Oatsmaster wrote: He isnt incorrect here though. Did you scumslip sn0
did u miss the part where i said "still wrong"?
there's no mention of a counterclaim in that post cuz i was wifom'ing the no-counter-claim scenario.
in the counter claim scenario I don't think u protect either cop.
I saw no indication that you were talking about wifom for a no counter scenario. You said "scum literally can't shoot the [cop]" The only reason that would be true is because of a counter.
not to mention the fact that you know there will be a counter since you made this post before roles were sent:
On February 26 2014 07:06 Sn0_Man wrote: Of course there will be a counter.
Unless maf is hella lucky in which case the cop will be flipped and there's no way maf claim obviously. But by the same token even if maf hit the cop N0, the game still goes on its not like town straight up lose.
Now, if maf hit the DOCTOR N0, then shenannies start happening because town can't cop claim anymore (unless they cop-checked scum N0).
Alright this is working out. me likey.
On February 28 2014 02:12 JarJarDrinks wrote: I also think this post is Sn0 getting pissed off that I was getting towncred my "noob mistake"
i've contributed far more than anyone in this entire game. the fact that anyone thinks i'm even remotely scummy is preposterous. you'll see after the day post.
On February 28 2014 07:11 Xatalos wrote: Artanis, what do you say about my deathpost reads?
I think your read on me is fantastic! Just missing a 0.01% but then again you don't have my role PM. Agreed on JJD. Agreed on Sylencia too. Nothing he has said has made me lean to any alignment. He at least tried to contribute with ideas though so there's that. I thought your BH read was off but that's pretty irrelevant now. I like Oats because this is the first time I've seen Oats lay down a trap and I think he'd be too lazy to do so as scum. Sn0 seems like a good pick. He doesn't seem too interested in actually playing. I know that for me that's usually a sign of being scum, dunno how it is for him. Would have to check meta.
I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on Sn0_Man ASAP. As well as any other possible notable scum/townreads. JJD, you're here, what do you think about my deathpost and especially Sn0_Man (although you've already talked about him quite a bit )?
I just realized I have 5 townreads and 1 scumread. Hmm. Most likely to be wrong on Sylencia or Xatalos. Sylencia hasn't done much to make me think he's town. Xatalos has done so much but I feel like you have been following sentiment a bit and making/asking obvious questions/answers.
On February 28 2014 07:17 Xatalos wrote: I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on Sn0_Man ASAP. As well as any other possible notable scum/townreads. JJD, you're here, what do you think about my deathpost and especially Sn0_Man (although you've already talked about him quite a bit )?
Yep Sn0man is my #1 scumread. Though I see no reason for us to lynch today.
I'm not as sure as you are on Art but I'd probably put you @ 99% town.
Sylencia is the person I'd vote on the cops checking since there's not much content there to gather a read from.
Sn0 actually was very happy to roll scum in SMB by the looks of it, said he couldn't roll scum in the pregame so I presume he had a long streak of town games before that. Not sure if the lower interest is scummy.
In Persona 4 Sn0 had a decently long filter as town (13 pages, 5 day game). SMB he had 8 pages (same length). Seems like he does have more trouble posting as scum. Could be scumtell.
I actually think I'm just hindering scumhunting right now by waiting, so I'll go ahead and say it.
I'm the Cop and I checked Sn0_Man. With this I think the most likely scumteam is Oats+Sylencia. It's still possible that one of you (Artanis/JJD) would be Mafia, although I pretty heavily doubt that, so the optimal plan seems to check Sylencia/Oats and have the Doc heal me.
Actually.... If there's a fakeclaim (seems more likely) and we both check the same player (Sylencia/Oats), then... What's the use in healing that targeted player? I'll just die and nothing of value will have been gained?
On February 28 2014 07:39 Xatalos wrote: Actually.... If there's a fakeclaim (seems more likely) and we both check the same player (Sylencia/Oats), then... What's the use in healing that targeted player? I'll just die and nothing of value will have been gained?
Seems risky for scum. They'd have to guess that the doc would keep to that plan and they'd be guaranteed to trade 1 to 1 if they counterclaimed.
And I'd prefer Doc to heal me, of course It depends on him though. It's certainly best if he doesn't claim and chooses by himself, since then scum would have a high risk of targeting me, but also a high risk of NOT targeting me.
If there's a CC, we decide which is most believable. I think a good idea for the doc is to weight how likely they think player X is getting hit and putting a percentage on it, then RNGing it. Would give the best chance of the hit not going through if the doc is good.
Aight well unsurprisingly I believe Xatalos's claim although I'm also obviously willing to entertain the possibility that he is fake claiming.
Regardless, its 4-2 today and we require literally every townie to vote for a scum lynch. If we no-lynch, then it (likely) progresses to 3-2 which is exactly the same "require every townie" situation, but we get an extra cop check. What's not to love?
So it will be VERY hard to convince me not to vote no-lynch, but there's also no hurry for that IMO.
I'll check the thread infrequently over the next 16 hours again (mostly hoping to see a counterclaim I think), but yeah.
On February 28 2014 07:51 Sn0_Man wrote: I'll check the thread infrequently over the next 16 hours again (mostly hoping to see a counterclaim I think), but yeah.
As a sidenote, I can now clear up a couple of things.
On February 28 2014 04:14 Xatalos wrote: I also noticed something interesting, but I won't be saying more yet.
On February 28 2014 04:16 Xatalos wrote: It would pretty much be strictly not beneficial...
This was pure WIFOM meant to confuse scum into thinking that I was VT and noticed a blue tell from someone. Maybe it worked because they probably NK'd BH by bluehunting.
This was also meant for distracting Cop hunters:
On February 27 2014 08:31 Xatalos wrote: It works both ways. Mafia can narrow down their targets, Cop can narrow down his targets. It's hard to say which one is more important.
Anyways, I suggest not checking me or Artanis. I'm pretty sure we're both town. I'm even fairly sure about myself.
This was a breadcrumb for checking Sn0_Man:
Sn0_Man (!) (notice the very different style of showing his name)
I didn't make any other real breadcrumbs in fear of being noticed. I just tried to play really carefree and appear as VT as can be. It seems like I was successful, although I was a bit worried if my overall slight nervousness and "hiding" my opinions were noticed. Apparently not.
Still need to take a closer look at JJD. I think after the claim you're pretty town to me though. I'd think if you were scum you'd be more likely to claim Sn0 was red as an alternative push.
On February 28 2014 08:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Still need to take a closer look at JJD. I think after the claim you're pretty town to me though. I'd think if you were scum you'd be more likely to claim Sn0 was red as an alternative push.
Except if it's a Xata/Sn0 team, but then N0 wouldn't make much sense and I'd expect you to have set up another player for that.
I suppose the most logical conclusion is that we're both town or both Mafia. It'd be pretty weird if I removed the most lucrative mislynch target as scum....
Yeah and with you both being on the same team the stuff you posted on him N0 wouldn't make much sense but I guess it's possible. Will have to wait for Oats/Syl to wake up.
I'll be going to sleep now and hopefully there will be another Cop claim by the time I wake up. I don't really see scum winning this anyways without a fakeclaim (and even then it'd be quite difficult).
Blazinghand as far as I can see was a shot on just a solid townie (I never saw anything that had him hint he was blue). I'm guessing they didn't find any hints on who would be Cop/Doc during the night.
That said, it was probably hard to spot seeing as I didn't hint it during the night:
I'm a Cop. Checked sn0_man who is green. He was the one I had my eye on during N0, so I needed to get confirmation on which side he was on.
Or maybe you'd try a little harder today if you weren't confirmed town and have actually confirmed yourself that way, who knows. You're confirmed town. Use it rather than sit on your ass.
lol thats so stupid. Xata scum. ##vote Xata you know why? because scum wouldve asked their towniest looking player to claim scum, not their worst looking player.
On February 28 2014 09:31 Artanis[Xp] wrote: This is a very interesting claim though. Very interesting. JJD why didn't you believe Xatalos' claim?
I lied cause I wanted there to be a counter. I figured scum might not counter if everyone was all in on Xat being town.
Xat is 100% the cop because if he was scum he'd have no way to know Sn0 wouldn't be the actual cop which would immediately out Xat as the fake (cause he gave him a green check).
If anyone else votes for Xatalos after this they are bad. Don't be bad. It's IML and who knows what can happen. I like JJD's thought process but don't think it makes Xata confirmed town in any way. Scum need to take chances, it's a fakeclaim game after all. Definitely a point in favour of Xata though. Today is also obviously a no lynch. Night actions are in town's favour on N1.
When you don't afk from the night cycle because it's too quiet, when you provide search targets to get feedback indirectly on whether it's a good check etc etc.
Sn0's filter was 99% day 1 play plans, and only his PS ever hinted at who to check - but being an afterthought it seems unlikely he cared about the night at all.
I'm not 100% sure no-lynch is the right play here. If we lynch syl (and assumming he is in fact red), then doc heals Xat and if he gets a green check then we can always use our no lynch the next day. Which means unless they hit the doc tonight, we autowin.
On February 28 2014 11:55 Sylencia wrote: When you don't afk from the night cycle because it's too quiet, when you provide search targets to get feedback indirectly on whether it's a good check etc etc.
Did you post during the night cycle or provide search targets to get feedback?
On February 28 2014 09:31 Artanis[Xp] wrote: This is a very interesting claim though. Very interesting. JJD why didn't you believe Xatalos' claim?
I lied cause I wanted there to be a counter. I figured scum might not counter if everyone was all in on Xat being town.
Xat is 100% the cop because if he was scum he'd have no way to know Sn0 wouldn't be the actual cop which would immediately out Xat as the fake (cause he gave him a green check).
That logic make sense to everyone?
No? cops never return roles, only alignments, either green or red.
No scum fakeclaims so bad man. Xata's fakeclaim is way too clean and it looks so much like he expected to claim today. Which he shouldn't have unless under huge pressure because he doesn't have a red check. Town cop doesn't want to claim because he outs himself. Syl's claim is townier cause its worse.
On February 28 2014 09:31 Artanis[Xp] wrote: This is a very interesting claim though. Very interesting. JJD why didn't you believe Xatalos' claim?
I lied cause I wanted there to be a counter. I figured scum might not counter if everyone was all in on Xat being town.
Xat is 100% the cop because if he was scum he'd have no way to know Sn0 wouldn't be the actual cop which would immediately out Xat as the fake (cause he gave him a green check).
That logic make sense to everyone?
No? cops never return roles, only alignments, either green or red.
That's not what I meant. If he claims cop and get's countered by Sn0, he cant very well say that Sn0 is lying after he just told us Sn0 was green.
ohhh right. 25% is pretty low. And he could conceivably go like "hahaha I lied, I actually checked other person. I wish I checked you qq" I don't think it makes xata town at all.
Do you think that it was a good idea of townXata to claim cop with a green check today?
On February 28 2014 11:55 Sylencia wrote: When you don't afk from the night cycle because it's too quiet, when you provide search targets to get feedback indirectly on whether it's a good check etc etc.
Did you post during the night cycle or provide search targets to get feedback?
I openly stated I was most suspicious of Sn0, over time there was enough of an agreement (though not in response to my statement, it was just generally put out there) that he wasn't really doing much too.
On February 28 2014 12:01 JarJarDrinks wrote: I mean. You just explained what a cop filter looks like and it looks nothing like yours. It looks like Xats lol.
I wasn't explaining my one - why would I need to find a cop filter when I am cop -_- I'm saying scum would be looking for a filter like sn0's where it's easy to deduce he isn't a cop so they can safely give him a check without arousing suspicion or inducing confusion from him.
On February 28 2014 12:47 Oatsmaster wrote: Why nolynch guys wtf. What advantage does it give us? No advantage.
+1 cop check, potential save on a cop kill if the doc does their job properly, and that will give us: - 2 checks hopefully - 1 cop hopefully - 1 doctor which in theory gives us enough confirmed town to at least incriminate someone tomorrow, if not both scummers.
At the moment, since the last members are: Artanis, Oats and JJD
I think JJD is prob the last scum when looking at he association with Xatalos.
His logic after Xatalos claimed seemed really premediatated. Xatalos fake claims, JJD "baits" a response, claims the response is a fake claim. Thing is, it feels too obvious :\\\\\\\\\
Well, it seems like the game is basically solved already. Sylencia+Oats openly allied with each other in order to make a desperate last attempt at mislynching me today (and probably winning the game unless there's a lucky Doctor save). Sylencia is obviously Mafia and there's no way Oats would be 100% convinced I'm scum and try to get me lynched today if he were town. Luckily there are already 2 scum on the bandwagon so there's realistically no way it'll succeed.
From my perspective, it would be best just to hammer Sylencia right now. Then I could probably check Oats just to be 100% sure. But I guess it doesn't really matter if one of us dies (unless there's a successful Doctor save) since the situation is pretty clear anyways and a town flip + another check would just make it even clearer. Sylencia's "check" might also reveal something (like it made Sn0_Man confirmed town today).
On February 28 2014 15:15 Sylencia wrote: At the moment, since the last members are: Artanis, Oats and JJD
I think JJD is prob the last scum when looking at he association with Xatalos.
His logic after Xatalos claimed seemed really premediatated. Xatalos fake claims, JJD "baits" a response, claims the response is a fake claim. Thing is, it feels too obvious :\\\\\\\\\
Oats didn't feel obvious when he jumped into supporting you immediately after you claimed?
On February 28 2014 17:27 Xatalos wrote: Well, it seems like the game is basically solved already. Sylencia+Oats openly allied with each other in order to make a desperate last attempt at mislynching me today (and probably winning the game unless there's a lucky Doctor save). Sylencia is obviously Mafia and there's no way Oats would be 100% convinced I'm scum and try to get me lynched today if he were town. Luckily there are already 2 scum on the bandwagon so there's realistically no way it'll succeed.
From my perspective, it would be best just to hammer Sylencia right now. Then I could probably check Oats just to be 100% sure. But I guess it doesn't really matter if one of us dies (unless there's a successful Doctor save) since the situation is pretty clear anyways and a town flip + another check would just make it even clearer. Sylencia's "check" might also reveal something (like it made Sn0_Man confirmed town today).
I'd be ready to move into night phase already.
Tell me this Xata. Why would I let syl claim instead of me? I look townier than him. And I am so convinced you are scum because no fucking town cop would claim THAT EARLY WITH A GREEN CHECK. Your whole mindset was focused about claiming. Syl's wasnt. Town doesnt expect to claim, scum does.
On February 28 2014 15:15 Sylencia wrote: At the moment, since the last members are: Artanis, Oats and JJD
I think JJD is prob the last scum when looking at he association with Xatalos.
His logic after Xatalos claimed seemed really premediatated. Xatalos fake claims, JJD "baits" a response, claims the response is a fake claim. Thing is, it feels too obvious :\\\\\\\\\
Oats didn't feel obvious when he jumped into supporting you immediately after you claimed?
scumslip. total fucking scumslip. Kill it with fire.
On February 28 2014 09:31 Artanis[Xp] wrote: This is a very interesting claim though. Very interesting. JJD why didn't you believe Xatalos' claim?
I lied cause I wanted there to be a counter. I figured scum might not counter if everyone was all in on Xat being town.
Xat is 100% the cop because if he was scum he'd have no way to know Sn0 wouldn't be the actual cop which would immediately out Xat as the fake (cause he gave him a green check).
That logic make sense to everyone?
In fact, if I was scum with Sn0_Man, then it would make a lot of sense. But yeah, if I was scum and Sn0_Man town, then it wouldn't really make any sense at all (taking an unnecessary 25% chance of losing immediately for no real reason).
On February 28 2014 17:34 Oatsmaster wrote: where's your vote Xata?
What's the rush? Unless your time is running out...
Its about intent. No vote, no intent to lynch.
If syl is my scumbuddy, then we faked all of the stuff that happened between us. So obviously he has wouldnt comment on me because its faked. Now, you just talked about it like you thought I was not on the same team as Syl.
My original intention was to wait until scum had made their moves (making them think that I had checked BH or something). Then I noticed everyone just kept assaulting poor Sn0_Man so I thought it would be more constructive to focus attention elsewhere.
On February 28 2014 17:57 Xatalos wrote: What I meant is that it was a waste of effort to pile suspicions against Sn0_Man and mostly ignore other players when he was innocent.
But you didnt do anything. You claimed and then made 0 effort to find scum. No effort at all. What were you thinking at that time to not push your other suspects now that your TOP SUSPECT is town?
Btw I still don't see the supposed scumslip. I just said that the connection between Oats/Sylencia was much stronger than any connection between Xata/JJD.
But I'll have to say that surviving and pretty much clearing 3 townies by D1 isn't a bad achievement. Then it's just a process of elimination that the rest are scum.
Besides, Sylencia had a classic newbie Mafia opening where he just talked about some "safe" policy stuff. And you, Oats, had a really weird strong townread on BH for the worst reason I've ever seen. So it's not even just process of elimination, but it helps.
On February 28 2014 18:11 Xatalos wrote: But I'll have to say that surviving and pretty much clearing 3 townies by D1 isn't a bad achievement. Then it's just a process of elimination that the rest are scum.
What do you mean by this? Who are the '3' townies?
I decided to claim today in any case unless my check or the Doc was killed. Even one green check helps a ton when it's only 6 players left, and I could just be healed easily.
On February 28 2014 18:11 Xatalos wrote: But I'll have to say that surviving and pretty much clearing 3 townies by D1 isn't a bad achievement. Then it's just a process of elimination that the rest are scum.
What do you mean by this? Who are the '3' townies?
Sn0_Man (100%) - also previously the most likely mislynch Artanis (99.99%) JJD (90%)
The percentages are all scientifically calculated.
Ok, you still havent really explained why you claimed so early and just waited for the counterclaim like you expected one, rather than advancing the game.
I'll probably vote for no-lynch soonish, but there's no rush.
1) The discussion was getting sidetracked when everyone just attacked Sn0_Man (who I knew was innocent) 2) I was going to sleep and wanted to force a counterclaim in order to confirm the scumteam 3) Why not? It just helps town overall
On February 28 2014 17:50 Xatalos wrote: My original intention was to wait until scum had made their moves (making them think that I had checked BH or something). Then I noticed everyone just kept assaulting poor Sn0_Man so I thought it would be more constructive to focus attention elsewhere.
On February 28 2014 18:31 Xatalos wrote: I'll probably vote for no-lynch soonish, but there's no rush.
1) The discussion was getting sidetracked when everyone just attacked Sn0_Man (who I knew was innocent) 2) I was going to sleep and wanted to force a counterclaim in order to confirm the scumteam 3) Why not? It just helps town overall
Point 2 and the last point of your first explanation dont click.
.....What's the point in lynching now? Naturally I'd prefer to lynch Sylencia, but others can't be 100% that I'm telling the truth, so it's just the optimal play to no-lynch.
On February 28 2014 18:40 Xatalos wrote: .....What's the point in lynching now? Naturally I'd prefer to lynch Sylencia, but others can't be 100% that I'm telling the truth, so it's just the optimal play to no-lynch.
because you KNOW THAT SYL IS SCUM? YOU KNOW THAT SYL IS SCUM WHY ARENT YOU TRYING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE OF YOUR RIGHTNESS.
Sigh. I don't even know why I'm explaining this, but it's just overall beneficial for town to prolong the game. More information, better results. We can't mislynch so no need to risk anything. Sylencia is confirmed scum for ME but not for others. It's just optimal to no-lynch in this situation.
On February 28 2014 18:53 Xatalos wrote: Sigh. I don't even know why I'm explaining this, but it's just overall beneficial for town to prolong the game. More information, better results. We can't mislynch so no need to risk anything. Sylencia is confirmed scum for ME but not for others. It's just optimal to no-lynch in this situation.
no its not fucking optimal to no lynch. You already pretty much said you know the scumteam, why are you no lynching? Because you are scum. Scum wants to nolynch all the way and try and get the doc obviously.
Also, if we HAD to lynch today, then almost certainly Sylencia would be lynched. If I was pushing scum agenda, I would definitely push for lynching Sylencia right away (like you are pushing me). It's risky to no-lynch as scum since there's even less space to hide tomorrow.
On February 28 2014 19:18 Xatalos wrote: Also, if we HAD to lynch today, then almost certainly Sylencia would be lynched. If I was pushing scum agenda, I would definitely push for lynching Sylencia right away (like you are pushing me). It's risky to no-lynch as scum since there's even less space to hide tomorrow.
you srs? sn0 is gonna die. Or artanis is gonna die. There is nowhere to hide in a fucking 6 player game Xata.
the stuff you are saying is not contextually correct, making me think that you are playing this game trying to do townie looking things rather than actually doing townie things.
Town doesn't gather information to reinforce their existing beliefs, they gather information to find the truth. If JJD or Artanis dies, then I can be certain that that player wasn't scum.
On February 28 2014 19:26 Xatalos wrote: Town doesn't gather information to reinforce their existing beliefs, they gather information to find the truth. If JJD or Artanis dies, then I can be certain that that player wasn't scum.
So your 100% on artanis wasnt actually 100% then? How does artanis flipping town tomorrow help town in any way to lynch Syl anymore than today?
On February 28 2014 19:35 Xatalos wrote: Actually one of the best scenarios would be if I flipped. In that case you and Sylencia would be pretty much confirmed scum.
Why do you have to flip for Syl to be confirmed scum?
On February 28 2014 19:42 Xatalos wrote: Confirmed for me != confirmed for everyone
Shouldnt you want to convince people? Isnt that the point of mafia? to push your case, not sit back and wait and wait and wait for totally fucking useless information.
I'm gonna go ahead and say that both cops check should oats tonight. (though everyone should chime in on this)
If we get dual red-checks, we obv lynch him If we get dual green-checks, we @ least know that he has no alt agenda and his reads are legit If we get conflicting reports then we @ least have more information
Then I think the Doc should heal Sn0man.
It's not the worst thing in the world if oats is town and he gets killed because if that's the case we're probably gonna get conflicting reports anyway if he survives.
Best thing that could happen is Art or me gets killed because we're the unknowns and we'd then have the cops data on oats as well as confirmed town in sn0. Plenty of info to help solve the game.
If Sn0 is the doc then he can be killed but I don't think scum would take a 33% shot @ getting lucky.
However, I noticed one post that stuck out from Xat for me:
On February 28 2014 19:35 Xatalos wrote: Actually one of the best scenarios would be if I flipped. In that case you and Sylencia would be pretty much confirmed scum.
It's a valiant attempt to gain town cred by trying to martyr, but if you think about it from his perspective it doesn't really show much towniness does it?
If he was the town cop, if he died, we'd gain +1 scum in me, but then town would have 66% chance to lose if the NK is the doc/non-protected guy. Doesn't really sound like a good tradeoff to me.
However, he's been pushing for a no lynch because it's apparently better to have us completely confused over the cop checks even more on day 2 if there are differing results. Basically he offers the self-sacrifice yet pushes no lynch.
I dont even. What? There is much stuff with what jjd said
If both cops come back w/ a red check on you then we lynch you. I think that's a very possible result.
no. no. no. no. no. no. Why would my scumbuddy bus me for literally no reason? To extend the game? The game is either Xata or Syl is scum. Thats it. No.
On February 28 2014 23:11 JarJarDrinks wrote: vote no-lynch
I'm gonna go ahead and say that both cops check should oats tonight. (though everyone should chime in on this)
If we get dual red-checks, we obv lynch him If we get dual green-checks, we @ least know that he has no alt agenda and his reads are legit If we get conflicting reports then we @ least have more information
Then I think the Doc should heal Sn0man.
It's not the worst thing in the world if oats is town and he gets killed because if that's the case we're probably gonna get conflicting reports anyway if he survives.
Best thing that could happen is Art or me gets killed because we're the unknowns and we'd then have the cops data on oats as well as confirmed town in sn0. Plenty of info to help solve the game.
If Sn0 is the doc then he can be killed but I don't think scum would take a 33% shot @ getting lucky.
thoughts?
why are you directing blue actions? And how does one person saying im green and one person saying im red give you more info? Like whattttttttttt. No fuck this whole post is wrong. You get no info that helps us win the game by nolynching today. None. 0 info.
Artanis may decide when to end the day. I'm pretty much ready already.
JJD, I very much doubt that Sylencia would bus Oats. It would be somewhat possible if it was the other way around, but frankly, I don't see how Sylencia could carry the scumteam to victory. I don't really see how Oats could either, but at least it's in the realms of possibility.
I'm almost certainly going to check Oats, and I think Sylencia should do the same. It seems like we gain the most information if we both choose the same target (and specifically Oats).
Doctor should probably heal Sn0_Man. If Sn0_Man is the Doctor, he should probably heal Artanis or JJD. There's also a small chance that I might get hit, but since my death would pretty much nail the scumteam, I doubt it. IF I was NK'd, healing me would also pretty much nail the scumteam, since then both me and the Doctor would be confirmed. But it's a lot less likely than scum hitting someone else, so it's probably not the best choice after all.
Oats, you remind me a lot of myself in my previous game as Mafia where I relentlessly tried to stop town from mass claiming blue roles. Nobody believed me, but I continued to try, since a mass claim would pretty much end the game (the setup was quite OP too). You're doing exactly the same thing here.
Doctor should probably randomize his heal target by giving each player a chance of getting hit (something like 50% for Sn0_Man for example) and then going to http://www.random.org
There's definitely some value to the doc healing whoever he thinks the "real cop" is since my death is pretty irrelevant honestly (since we need 4 votes today and 3 tomorrow, its much the same as my vote still counting).
Whereas if either "cop" dies sure we have a red check on the other but we miss the information of their cop checks.
Although there's also the possibility of some no-kill wifom bombs depending on who the doc saves LOL.
Honestly though, the fact that oats and Syl just voted like that tells you what you need to know. Sure, technically they could be town because if they were then xat would be scum and scum wouldn't self-hammer, but there's just no way lol. No-lynch is categorically GOOD for town. The fact that 2 people don't like a no lynch clearly indicates that THEY ARE SCUM.
Scum MUST BE: One of Syl/Xat One of Artanis/JJD/Oats
If we no-lynch, then we get MORE INFORMATION based on Syl/Xat's true and fake cop checks. THIS CAN'T BE BAD. Sure, there are situations where we don't learn much (my death). But the loss is nonexistant because the voting is ALWAYS every towny required to lynch scum. Losing my vote means literally nothing. Plus the possibility of hero doc saves etc...
Also, the fact that Oats isn't afraid of insta-maf-hammers tells you a lot.
ITS IML PEOPLE.
Especially keep in mind tomorrow if ANY towny EVER votes for town they can lose on the spot. So NEVER VOTE until all of town agrees on the lynch. Scum will be willing to bus hammer if they feel like it gives them cred.
On March 01 2014 00:39 Xatalos wrote: Oats, you remind me a lot of myself in my previous game as Mafia where I relentlessly tried to stop town from mass claiming blue roles. Nobody believed me, but I continued to try, since a mass claim would pretty much end the game (the setup was quite OP too). You're doing exactly the same thing here.
except there is no plan. Ok lets say scum shoot artanis. Then what? We still lynch between you and Syl. How does this nolynch help?
On March 01 2014 00:47 Sn0_Man wrote: Also, the fact that Oats isn't afraid of insta-maf-hammers tells you a lot.
ITS IML PEOPLE.
Especially keep in mind tomorrow if ANY towny EVER votes for town they can lose on the spot. So NEVER VOTE until all of town agrees on the lynch. Scum will be willing to bus hammer if they feel like it gives them cred.
orrrrrr i know that xata is scum. Wooooohooooo yeahhhhhhhhh. Look at the last IML game man.
On March 01 2014 00:39 Xatalos wrote: Oats, you remind me a lot of myself in my previous game as Mafia where I relentlessly tried to stop town from mass claiming blue roles. Nobody believed me, but I continued to try, since a mass claim would pretty much end the game (the setup was quite OP too). You're doing exactly the same thing here.
except there is no plan. Ok lets say scum shoot artanis. Then what? We still lynch between you and Syl. How does this nolynch help?
Lets say scum shoot artanis.
Now we know that scum can't be artanis. This is valuable info.
THE LONGER THE GAME GOES THE MORE FAVOURED TOWN IS. Then scum MUST be You or JJD one of the 2. I just covered how this can't possibly be bad for town.
Oats ur not gonna convince enough people to not no-lynch. And ur sure as heck not gonna convince enough people to vote Xat. Just hammer no-lynch so we can move on please.
True, but voting no lynch has more to do with gaining more confirmed info and such. The doc should definitely protect sn0. We'll get an extra confirmed town out of the cop checks or get a confirmed mafia if they go for the cop.
Oats if you are town then at least 1 scummer voted no-lynch. Since you believe town shouldn't no-lynch, surely you must want Artanis to justify his vote?
On March 01 2014 01:41 Sn0_Man wrote: Oats if you are town then at least 1 scummer voted no-lynch. Since you believe town shouldn't no-lynch, surely you must want Artanis to justify his vote?
I reaaaally doubt scum wouldn't shoot. It would just give more time to town and it's highly unlikely that scum would be protected (and if town is protected, it would just have a negative effect on scum).
On March 01 2014 01:48 Sn0_Man wrote: Honestly no matter how hard I try I can't get Oats more interested in actually figuring out the game or finding scum.
Because there is no figuring out other than which one of Xata or Syl is scum.
Oats hasn't even considered the possibility of Sylencia being Mafia, by the way. He just immediately started pushing me and continued the tunneling ever since. With weak or outright anti-town arguments, I might add.
On March 01 2014 01:54 Sn0_Man wrote: Oh okay so if you know JJD is scum why wouldn't you be trying to lynch him yesterday? It seems more certain than Xat vs Syl.
On March 01 2014 01:54 Xatalos wrote: Oats hasn't even considered the possibility of Sylencia being Mafia, by the way. He just immediately started pushing me and continued the tunneling ever since. With weak or outright anti-town arguments, I might add.
By weak or outright anti-town you mean what arguments exactly?
Hey Syl if u could check oats tonight i'd be much obliged.
If ur town you should wish to be read as easily as possible and it may be hard to read you if you check somebody random. Checking oats should be very helpful in determining your alignment thanks
Scum will never shoot oats because he's either their best mislynch candidate or scum one of the 2 imo, so it's not unreasonable to have both "cops" checking him tonight.
On March 01 2014 01:54 Xatalos wrote: Oats hasn't even considered the possibility of Sylencia being Mafia, by the way. He just immediately started pushing me and continued the tunneling ever since. With weak or outright anti-town arguments, I might add.
By weak or outright anti-town you mean what arguments exactly?
1) Me wanting to no-lynch 2) Me claiming early in the day Etc.
On March 01 2014 01:54 Xatalos wrote: Oats hasn't even considered the possibility of Sylencia being Mafia, by the way. He just immediately started pushing me and continued the tunneling ever since. With weak or outright anti-town arguments, I might add.
By weak or outright anti-town you mean what arguments exactly?
1) Me wanting to no-lynch 2) Me claiming early in the day Etc.
No-lynching now makes no difference and it loses a possible nolynch where its more beneficial later.
You claiming early in the day is indicative of a mindset that wants to claim, not townie..
On March 01 2014 01:57 Sn0_Man wrote: If u think syl could be scum then whey did u vote xata in an INSTANT MAJORITY LYNCH game?
because my 1 vote + 2 scum votes = not hammer.
What if some townie had a mental collapse and voted me? If you were town, scum would just insta-win. I don't really see any reason to immediately vote me and keep your vote on me all day. Unless you're Mafia, of course.
On March 01 2014 01:54 Xatalos wrote: Oats hasn't even considered the possibility of Sylencia being Mafia, by the way. He just immediately started pushing me and continued the tunneling ever since. With weak or outright anti-town arguments, I might add.
By weak or outright anti-town you mean what arguments exactly?
1) Me wanting to no-lynch 2) Me claiming early in the day Etc.
No-lynching now makes no difference and it loses a possible nolynch where its more beneficial later.
You claiming early in the day is indicative of a mindset that wants to claim, not townie..
On March 01 2014 01:57 Sn0_Man wrote: If u think syl could be scum then whey did u vote xata in an INSTANT MAJORITY LYNCH game?
because my 1 vote + 2 scum votes = not hammer.
What if some townie had a mental collapse and voted me? If you were town, scum would just insta-win. I don't really see any reason to immediately vote me and keep your vote on me all day. Unless you're Mafia, of course.
Or you might want to look at LXIV the restart. town oats. almost insta votes Bum. Oh right maybe Im town again.
Ah, yeah. Although lynching me would have just ended the game.
And it's pretty unlikely to be more beneficial to focus on gathering information AFTER a lynch rather than BEFORE a lynch (especially since no mislynches are allowed).
tell me Xata, if we had lynched scum today, would the info gathered be the same as the info that we will get after tmr's lynch? How does it differ if it does differ?
On March 01 2014 02:16 Oatsmaster wrote: tell me Xata, if we had lynched scum today, would the info gathered be the same as the info that we will get after tmr's lynch? How does it differ if it does differ?
The problem is if we mislynch and lose because we lack some crucial information. You might even be town for example. Or who knows, maybe Sylencia is town and fakeclaimed to troll and scum didn't feel the need to fakeclaim (lol). More information is never bad.
On March 01 2014 02:16 Oatsmaster wrote: tell me Xata, if we had lynched scum today, would the info gathered be the same as the info that we will get after tmr's lynch? How does it differ if it does differ?
The problem is if we mislynch and lose because we lack some crucial information. You might even be town for example. Or who knows, maybe Sylencia is town and fakeclaimed to troll and scum didn't feel the need to fakeclaim (lol). More information is never bad.
How would we know from the night actions that Im town?
On March 01 2014 02:16 Oatsmaster wrote: tell me Xata, if we had lynched scum today, would the info gathered be the same as the info that we will get after tmr's lynch? How does it differ if it does differ?
The problem is if we mislynch and lose because we lack some crucial information. You might even be town for example. Or who knows, maybe Sylencia is town and fakeclaimed to troll and scum didn't feel the need to fakeclaim (lol). More information is never bad.
How would we know from the night actions that Im town?
On March 01 2014 02:16 Oatsmaster wrote: tell me Xata, if we had lynched scum today, would the info gathered be the same as the info that we will get after tmr's lynch? How does it differ if it does differ?
The problem is if we mislynch and lose because we lack some crucial information. You might even be town for example. Or who knows, maybe Sylencia is town and fakeclaimed to troll and scum didn't feel the need to fakeclaim (lol). More information is never bad.
How would we know from the night actions that Im town?
On March 01 2014 02:24 Oatsmaster wrote: ah yes, another reason why Syl is town. Why would he fakeclaim and confirm a townie straight-up without a flip?
Dunno. Maybe because it put less pressure on him (nobody can deny his check). Plus Sn0_Man would never have been lynched anyway (if one of me or Sn0_Man would have been lynched, it would have definitely been me - I would never vote for Sn0_Man but he might vote for me).
On March 01 2014 02:24 Oatsmaster wrote: ah yes, another reason why Syl is town. Why would he fakeclaim and confirm a townie straight-up without a flip?
Dunno. Maybe because it put less pressure on him (nobody can deny his check). .
If he, for example, claimed a redcheck on Artanis, then Artanis would know that he's Mafia and it would be hard to defend against me+Artanis knowing that he's 100% Mafia. You couldn't really help him either in that situation. Now he can just AFK in peace while you defend him and he isn't in *that* hard of a situation.
By the way, this is just such a scum-to-scum conversation LOL. Especially this post... "This is suspicious, haha just kidding you're too bad to be scum, time to defend you with everything I got."
On February 28 2014 14:08 Oatsmaster wrote: OR YOU ARE SACUM!!! ! ! nah ok yeah scum wouldn't be this bad ;P Now to convince the townies.
On March 01 2014 02:50 Xatalos wrote: By the way, this is just such a scum-to-scum conversation LOL. Especially this post... "This is suspicious, haha just kidding you're too bad to be scum, time to defend you with everything I got."
Alright Syl clearly understands why nolynching is good as shown by the following post: (note the excellent timestamp). This is post-claim and counter-claim. No new info after this btw. + Show Spoiler +
On February 28 2014 12:47 Oatsmaster wrote: Why nolynch guys wtf. What advantage does it give us? No advantage.
+1 cop check, potential save on a cop kill if the doc does their job properly, and that will give us: - 2 checks hopefully - 1 cop hopefully - 1 doctor which in theory gives us enough confirmed town to at least incriminate someone tomorrow, if not both scummers.
Then, not very long afterwards, without giving any reasoning whatsoever, + Show Spoiler +
On February 28 2014 14:04 Sylencia wrote: :| Don't worry about me, I'm too naive about scum fake checks.
Currently waiting on Syl to say/do anything (or even just break 1 page of filter). JJD too I guess since there exist situations where I have to evaluate him.
Actually, if Oats is town, then I'm the most likely NK (since then JJD could easily get Oats mislynched without my check). But that seems pretty unlikely.
On February 28 2014 19:35 Xatalos wrote: Actually one of the best scenarios would be if I flipped. In that case you and Sylencia would be pretty much confirmed scum.
It's a valiant attempt to gain town cred by trying to martyr, but if you think about it from his perspective it doesn't really show much towniness does it?
If he was the town cop, if he died, we'd gain +1 scum in me, but then town would have 66% chance to lose if the NK is the doc/non-protected guy. Doesn't really sound like a good tradeoff to me.
However, he's been pushing for a no lynch because it's apparently better to have us completely confused over the cop checks even more on day 2 if there are differing results. Basically he offers the self-sacrifice yet pushes no lynch.
That's scum yo.
Lolz. How does Sylencia go from thinking that it's beneficial for town to no-lynch to soon use my stance of no-lynching as proof of me being scum? This is such a radical and complete change in his views that it can't be real.
This question has come up. There are minimal notifications this game. That means that if a save should happen, neither the doc, nor the target saved, will be notified anything special happened.
Your wifom was solid Xata. I hope I'll be able to match it. Also I won't be around on saturday until late at night. Please don't do something stupid and give scum a chance to insta hammer anyone. No votes until I get back by anyone that isn't claiming cop allowed.
ABSOLUTELY NO VOTES TOMORROW until town has come to consensus since literally ONE vote by a towny on a towny results in a loss if scum are present to hammer.
Period. There's simply no acceptable reason for a town player to vote early.
Oh ok. Actually English isn't my main language so I somehow imagined that "conspicuously" meant "incidentally" (as in they were absent from the thread while posting in ScumQT).
On March 01 2014 07:28 Sn0_Man wrote: Syl and JJD are conspicuously absent really lol. But w/e. We are already like 9 pages longer than the last version of this game.
On March 01 2014 07:37 Xatalos wrote: It feels so refreshing though to have both my role and my opinions out in the open. I can't imagine the pains that Artanis goes through.
Unfortunately won't be around at deadline but the death of an enigma should say enough about the game anyway. If I'm still alive I'll make some read post tomorrow night sometime when I get back.
idk i feel like there's not much to say during this night phase. Don't really want to put too much wifom out there. just wanna see who gets shot and the cop results.
On February 28 2014 23:42 Sylencia wrote: Proper readup tomorrow - karaoke has me drained.
However, I noticed one post that stuck out from Xat for me:
On February 28 2014 19:35 Xatalos wrote: Actually one of the best scenarios would be if I flipped. In that case you and Sylencia would be pretty much confirmed scum.
It's a valiant attempt to gain town cred by trying to martyr, but if you think about it from his perspective it doesn't really show much towniness does it?
If he was the town cop, if he died, we'd gain +1 scum in me, but then town would have 66% chance to lose if the NK is the doc/non-protected guy. Doesn't really sound like a good tradeoff to me.
However, he's been pushing for a no lynch because it's apparently better to have us completely confused over the cop checks even more on day 2 if there are differing results. Basically he offers the self-sacrifice yet pushes no lynch.
That's scum yo.
Lolz. How does Sylencia go from thinking that it's beneficial for town to no-lynch to soon use my stance of no-lynching as proof of me being scum? This is such a radical and complete change in his views that it can't be real.
I'm using your stance of no lynch because you're saying "Hey, kill me because it's good" while advocating no lynch to gain town cred. Do you read?
On February 28 2014 23:42 Sylencia wrote: Proper readup tomorrow - karaoke has me drained.
However, I noticed one post that stuck out from Xat for me:
On February 28 2014 19:35 Xatalos wrote: Actually one of the best scenarios would be if I flipped. In that case you and Sylencia would be pretty much confirmed scum.
It's a valiant attempt to gain town cred by trying to martyr, but if you think about it from his perspective it doesn't really show much towniness does it?
If he was the town cop, if he died, we'd gain +1 scum in me, but then town would have 66% chance to lose if the NK is the doc/non-protected guy. Doesn't really sound like a good tradeoff to me.
However, he's been pushing for a no lynch because it's apparently better to have us completely confused over the cop checks even more on day 2 if there are differing results. Basically he offers the self-sacrifice yet pushes no lynch.
That's scum yo.
Lolz. How does Sylencia go from thinking that it's beneficial for town to no-lynch to soon use my stance of no-lynching as proof of me being scum? This is such a radical and complete change in his views that it can't be real.
I'm using your stance of no lynch because you're saying "Hey, kill me because it's good" while advocating no lynch to gain town cred. Do you read?
Why exactly am I scum for either supporting a no-lynch or mentioning that my death would benefit town?
On March 01 2014 13:19 Sylencia wrote: Pretty sure I've solved the game, but I can't really say much about the doctor until D2.
On March 01 2014 03:55 Xatalos wrote:
On February 28 2014 23:42 Sylencia wrote: Proper readup tomorrow - karaoke has me drained.
However, I noticed one post that stuck out from Xat for me:
On February 28 2014 19:35 Xatalos wrote: Actually one of the best scenarios would be if I flipped. In that case you and Sylencia would be pretty much confirmed scum.
It's a valiant attempt to gain town cred by trying to martyr, but if you think about it from his perspective it doesn't really show much towniness does it?
If he was the town cop, if he died, we'd gain +1 scum in me, but then town would have 66% chance to lose if the NK is the doc/non-protected guy. Doesn't really sound like a good tradeoff to me.
However, he's been pushing for a no lynch because it's apparently better to have us completely confused over the cop checks even more on day 2 if there are differing results. Basically he offers the self-sacrifice yet pushes no lynch.
That's scum yo.
Lolz. How does Sylencia go from thinking that it's beneficial for town to no-lynch to soon use my stance of no-lynching as proof of me being scum? This is such a radical and complete change in his views that it can't be real.
I'm using your stance of no lynch because you're saying "Hey, kill me because it's good" while advocating no lynch to gain town cred. Do you read?
Why exactly am I scum for either supporting a no-lynch or mentioning that my death would benefit town?
IT'S NOT THE FACT YOU DID _EITHER_ IT'S THE FACT YOU DID _BOTH_. MARTYR WITHOUT INTENTION TO FOLLOW THROUGH. DO YOU GET ME.
On March 01 2014 13:19 Sylencia wrote: Pretty sure I've solved the game, but I can't really say much about the doctor until D2.
On March 01 2014 03:55 Xatalos wrote:
On February 28 2014 23:42 Sylencia wrote: Proper readup tomorrow - karaoke has me drained.
However, I noticed one post that stuck out from Xat for me:
On February 28 2014 19:35 Xatalos wrote: Actually one of the best scenarios would be if I flipped. In that case you and Sylencia would be pretty much confirmed scum.
It's a valiant attempt to gain town cred by trying to martyr, but if you think about it from his perspective it doesn't really show much towniness does it?
If he was the town cop, if he died, we'd gain +1 scum in me, but then town would have 66% chance to lose if the NK is the doc/non-protected guy. Doesn't really sound like a good tradeoff to me.
However, he's been pushing for a no lynch because it's apparently better to have us completely confused over the cop checks even more on day 2 if there are differing results. Basically he offers the self-sacrifice yet pushes no lynch.
That's scum yo.
Lolz. How does Sylencia go from thinking that it's beneficial for town to no-lynch to soon use my stance of no-lynching as proof of me being scum? This is such a radical and complete change in his views that it can't be real.
I'm using your stance of no lynch because you're saying "Hey, kill me because it's good" while advocating no lynch to gain town cred. Do you read?
Why exactly am I scum for either supporting a no-lynch or mentioning that my death would benefit town?
IT'S NOT THE FACT YOU DID _EITHER_ IT'S THE FACT YOU DID _BOTH_. MARTYR WITHOUT INTENTION TO FOLLOW THROUGH. DO YOU GET ME.
Hmm, I'm still not sure what you mean. Those are just both separate factual statements. Clearly 1) it's beneficial for town to no-lynch and 2) it's beneficial for town if I die. What's the connection? And what's scummy?
The connection is that you offered both because you are trying to gain maximum town cred by combining both statements into a statement which looks super town but in fact just protects your own ass while you "offer" your own head.
Well... I guess it's pointless to argue about this with you, but when something makes me look "super town", it's possible that it's simply true (Occam's razor) rather than a sneaky plan to collect towncred.
I don't know about that. For example, you can assume that I A) greenchecked Sn0_Man and revealed that he was town since everyone kept accusing him and only him OR B) I took a 25% risk of scumclaiming AND removed the easiest possible mislynch only to collect some more towncred I'd say Occam's razor gives the easy answer here.
On March 02 2014 00:11 Xatalos wrote: I could use an official countdown just to be sure
Night 1 lasts until Saturday, Mar 01 4:20pm GMT (GMT+00:00) (in ), action deadline is at Saturday, Mar 01 3:20pm GMT (GMT+00:00) (in ) except for mafia.
On March 02 2014 00:00 Xatalos wrote: I don't know about that. For example, you can assume that I A) greenchecked Sn0_Man and revealed that he was town since everyone kept accusing him and only him OR B) I took a 25% risk of scumclaiming AND removed the easiest possible mislynch only to collect some more towncred I'd say Occam's razor gives the easy answer here.
On March 02 2014 00:00 Xatalos wrote: I don't know about that. For example, you can assume that I A) greenchecked Sn0_Man and revealed that he was town since everyone kept accusing him and only him OR B) I took a 25% risk of scumclaiming AND removed the easiest possible mislynch only to collect some more towncred I'd say Occam's razor gives the easy answer here.
that towncred pretty important bro
Not worth risking everything for. Towncred isn't scum's #1 priority.
If I die, here is one (unlikely) theory that could possibly be possible.
What if Oats is actually the Doctor? This is what got me thinking:
On March 01 2014 22:29 Oatsmaster wrote: shits dont need no reasoning
Xata pls check me.
Maybe I'm just imagining things, but it felt like Oats both 1) wanted to be checked and 2) wanted to be checked by ME especially. This means that he basically thinks I'm the real Cop. Now, it could be just that he's scum and it's a slight slip, but it's a possibility that he's been the Doc all along and pretended to support Sylencia (and overall look bad) in order not to get NK'd.
I also don't like how JJD has pretty much been inactive in the discussion for a long time. That's part of the reason that got me to reconsider him being near-surely town.
I still think Oats is the most likely remaining scum - but it might not be impossible for him to be town.
Or... it could be that this was intentional by Oats and I get killed now.... Or it could be that I noticed something that really wasn't there... We'll see
Artanis' epic list of reads 1. Sn0_Man - 100% Town Hurr. 2. Xatalos - 85% Town Reason 1: WIFOM during the night Could be faked, but it seems like something a cop would think of and he was the first to think about it. I thought it was smart.
Reason 2: Claimed Green on Sn0 Sn0 was a potential mislynch, and in this setup mafia only needs one mislynch for a victory. He was the easiest person to push, yet Xata came out with a green claim. This could be an attempt to get cred, but it seems more likely that he's just town. Also a 25% chance of getting busted instantly if Sn0 CCs cop. One point to note though is that he did try to claim credit for it.
On February 28 2014 08:19 Xatalos wrote: Haha
I suppose the most logical conclusion is that we're both town or both Mafia. It'd be pretty weird if I removed the most lucrative mislynch target as scum....
Reason 3: Weird wording after his claim.
On February 28 2014 08:24 Xatalos wrote: I'll be going to sleep now and hopefully there will be another Cop claim by the time I wake up. I don't really see scum winning this anyways without a fakeclaim (and even then it'd be quite difficult).
Would scum post hopefully? They would know that another claim is going to happen.
Reason 4: He's actively tried to figure out the game at many points. He's explained himself a lot and everything he's said after the claim makes sense.
A few things bother me though. His play before the end of N0 had a few holes. It felt like he was following thread sentiment a lot back then. His reasoning followed after mine, most of the time, and his suspicions on BH were ill-founded, but given scum shot BH there's no real reason to suspect him for it. I'm quite good with town Xatalos.
3. JarJarDrinks - 80% Town Reasons: He has given a lot of stuff to the thread. He called Sn0 out for good reasons and formulated a plan for the doc. There are a few holes in his plan though, like with both players checking the same player; it seems like scum could simply shoot the player that they would check.
Another thing that has sparked my interest in hindsight is how his entire plan that he talked about revolved around the optimal play for if the cop died on N0. The cop didn't die on N0 and now JJD has only 2 pages of filter despite being quite active at the start of the game. It worries me. He's been in a great position, getting lots of cred and then proceeds to not use it for anything. Town has the motivation of wanting to aid town, so they should post. Scum want to not raise suspicion for why they're still alive, so if they're in a great position they'll probably try to alleviate some of the credit. It could also be demotivation if scum is in a poor situation, which would be the case if Sylencia is mafia and the counterclaim went poorly. Cop didn't get shot on N0 either, so it's a situation I see as real.
Problem with that is that JJD instantly said that Xatalos is 99% town. If he's scum with Sylencia, why would he do that? It could be an attempt to get into a better position in the endgame, but I'll have to give JJD townie points if Xatalos is indeed the town cop, and if Xatalos is the scum cop JJD shouldn't be demotivated as scum because they're in a great spot. In the end, everything JJD has said seems to be in town's favour but there's feels about him. I've got me feels.
4. Oatsmaster - 20% Town Oats and Sylencia are very strongly connected in that Oats has hard defended Sylencia quite a bit. This is what he's been doing for most of the day. Oats being scum with Sylencia is therefore at the forefront of everyone's mind, which means Oats' play would be bad if he were scum with Sylencia. Doesn't mean that it isn't the case though, and if they're both scum they're in a terrible position. The speed with which Oats believes Sylencia's claim is not something I see as alignment indicative. Oats has strong gut reads and doesn't let go of them. Something I believe Prom told me about reading Oats though is that he often sheeps his town reads as town which he doesn't when he's scum. Oats has not really done that this game. He's taken the opposition and ran with it.
Other strange things in his filter are how he ragged on Xatalos for not voting for Sylencia because he was confirmed scum to him. It should be obvious to everyone that Sylencia is confirmed scum to Xatalos and the other way around. Not voting doesn't mean anything in that regard, you're already making your voice explicit. He's also set a "trap" which he then sprung, a short while after he says there's no reason to hide what you think. It's not a direct contradiction but it shows two conflicting thought processes. Why couldn't people hide their own thought process as a trap? It doesn't really make sense. His reasoning on targets is poor and he's tunneling pretty hard. Calls Xata scum for having a more prepared claim when both scum and town cop should be prepared to claim. Also said that scum profit from the game going on longer despite town having two blue roles and scum having nothing to counter it other than claims.
He has been pressuring people though, and that puts him ahead of Sylencia.
5. Sylencia - 15% Town There is nothing town about Sylencia's filter other than his claim. He hasn't done anything in the game other than claim cop, and when he did he just followed thread sentiment. His cop claim was on someone who already got checked green so there's little risk there. One point though; he could've claimed green on someone else and then there wouldn't have been any confirmed townies. Problem with this is that he set himself up on D1 to check sn0, so he didn't leave much choice there. One thing to note on that thought process is that if he was scum, he would be more likely to leave himself open to check multiple targets if he were going to claim cop.
His recent rage is not really alignment indicative to me. He hasn't really been trying to prove that Xatalos is scum. For some reason Oats took that away from him. He looks quite bad.
On March 01 2014 22:29 Oatsmaster wrote: shits dont need no reasoning
Xata pls check me.
Maybe I'm just imagining things, but it felt like Oats both 1) wanted to be checked and 2) wanted to be checked by ME especially. This means that he basically thinks I'm the real Cop. Now, it could be just that he's scum and it's a slight slip, but it's a possibility that he's been the Doc all along and pretended to support Sylencia (and overall look bad) in order not to get NK'd.
I also don't like how JJD has pretty much been inactive in the discussion for a long time. That's part of the reason that got me to reconsider him being near-surely town.
I still think Oats is the most likely remaining scum - but it might not be impossible for him to be town.
Or... it could be that this was intentional by Oats and I get killed now.... Or it could be that I noticed something that really wasn't there... We'll see
Oats is as close to confirmed scum as possible. If Oats is town that would make either Me or Art scum. If me or Art was scume we would just shoot the other person and win the game game the next day after Oats votes Xat
Here's the breakdown:
If I'm scum, I shoot Art.
- Art Dies - Syl and Xat vote each other - Sno votes for Syl mosy likely - Oats votes for Xat - I hammer Xat and we win
And you can switch me and Art for the same conclusion.
On March 02 2014 02:09 JarJarDrinks wrote: Oats is as close to confirmed scum as possible. If Oats is town that would make either Me or Art scum. If me or Art was scume we would just shoot the other person and win the game game the next day after Oats votes Xat
Here's the breakdown:
If I'm scum, I shoot Art.
- Art Dies - Syl and Xat vote each other - Sno votes for Syl mosy likely - Oats votes for Xat - I hammer Xat and we win
And you can switch me and Art for the same conclusion.
I'm waiting for Sn0 to come back and hear who he thinks the last scum is. To me, it's between JJD and you and JJD is making a lot more sense right now.
Except its suicidal for scumoats to shoot xat. If im scum I shoot artanis. That gives us the best chance of lynching xat today imo. The fight is today if its me/syl. So why delay it? If xat gets docced, xat gets a red check. Game over. If xat doesnt get docced then I have to fight an insane uphill battle instead of just making the fight between syl and xat. Look at how JJD is ignoring syl and instead pushing the next lynch.
Do you think its more likely that scum would be prepared for the flip, exactly like JJD was? Or scum just chilling doing nothing?
If you're scum you know Xatalos is going to get a red check on you. The only way you could win is if you could convince two of me/JJD/Sn0 that Xatalos was the real cop. The only player that was an enigma that could still help you from this dire position is me because I hadn't shown where I stood yet. A wildcard is better than anyone that isn't in your favour. You knew you weren't going to win the cop war so you decided to risk it on this.
I think from all the players alive you're most likely to risk shooting the real cop because you needed a game changer. You could be banking the game on me making the wrong decision which given you don't know where I stand and you knew where the others stood regarding Sylencia could be your best move.
Like how do you think shooting me gives you the best chance of lynching Xatalos today? Xatalos would have a red check on you, JJD already indicated he was 99% certain Xatalos was the real cop and Sn0 also said he was inclined to believe Xata more. You had a better chance of getting one mislynch on someone than Sylencia did.
Also there's a plan I have that I don't want to tell until everyone's here because I want everyone to instantly agree to it so scum won't have time to adjust to it.
Because it was really obvious you thought syl was scum.
Do you think im a bad scum player? Because it makes no sense for me to go hard buddy syl as scum when xata looks townier by a country mile and the thread feels the same way. Literally no reason. Think a bit please artanis.
On March 02 2014 03:23 Oatsmaster wrote: Because it was really obvious you thought syl was scum.
Do you think im a bad scum player? Because it makes no sense for me to go hard buddy syl as scum when xata looks townier by a country mile and the thread feels the same way. Literally no reason. Think a bit please artanis.
lulwat? You thought that xata looked "townier by a country mile" than syl?
Oats can you tell me when I ever said that Xatalos was clearly town until after the flip? I even voiced some suspicion for him earlier. If you're saying my friendly behaviour to him earlier in the thread means I had him as clear town then you were mistaken, or at least it was never my intention to show it. Sn0, was it obvious to you that I supported Xala's side?
Also, as JJD says, if you thought Xata looked townier by a country mile why did you say Sylencia was the town guy? Makes no sense.
tbh I'm pretty tempted to just skip the plan and hammer syl and oats. It seems pretty clear cut. ##vote Sylencia
On March 02 2014 05:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Oats can you tell me when I ever said that Xatalos was clearly town until after the flip? I even voiced some suspicion for him earlier. If you're saying my friendly behaviour to him earlier in the thread means I had him as clear town then you were mistaken, or at least it was never my intention to show it. Sn0, was it obvious to you that I supported Xala's side?
Also, as JJD says, if you thought Xata looked townier by a country mile why did you say Sylencia was the town guy? Makes no sense.
tbh I'm pretty tempted to just skip the plan and hammer syl and oats. It seems pretty clear cut. ##vote Sylencia
Townier =/= town.
Also, I know Syl is scum right? And I can tell what the thread thinks of Syl and Xata respectively so again, its suicide to support my scumbuddy.
You didn't need to convince the thread that Sylencia was the real cop though, you just needed enough doubt so he wouldn't be protected and you'd have a shot without getting cop checked. Seems to me like there's plenty of scum motivation for that.
Again, you need to create a strong case against JJD for me to reconsider. That, or my plan might exonerate you. It depends!
On February 27 2014 14:08 Oatsmaster wrote: so BH is good townie, xata and artanis slightly less so and I dont really think JarJar is town just for being noob.
Explain how I'm being noob please. I think I defended the doctor claim thing pretty well. In fact I'm curious how anyone can disagree w/ me on it @ this point.
Fake trap thing that wasnt actually meant to be a trap but meant to see if town would support Xata
On February 28 2014 09:03 JarJarDrinks wrote: So I guess we wait for Oats or Syl to post.
I actually think I have less of a town read on Xat after the claim. I'll explain after we here from those other 2.
On March 02 2014 09:37 Artanis[Xp] wrote: You didn't need to convince the thread that Sylencia was the real cop though, you just needed enough doubt so he wouldn't be protected and you'd have a shot without getting cop checked. Seems to me like there's plenty of scum motivation for that.
Again, you need to create a strong case against JJD for me to reconsider. That, or my plan might exonerate you. It depends!
Yeah I dunno why the cop didnt proct Xata, super weird.
Was there any doubt about Xata scum for JJD/You/sn0? Didnt seem like it. My plan was to push Syl a bit then when Syl got to 2 votes then I hammer for the sick town cred.
I had some doubt but it wasn't because Sylencia was doing anything good. There's a few points I mentioned on Xala that I found odd, particularly his early game. He was pretty damn town after the cop claim for me though.
Bussing Syl would lose you the game right there though. You were going to get cop checked the next night and you would've been dead. Who else could've been checked? You were the question mark that was left on Xalatos' mind.
I need to know of you and of JJD if you're going to be around at deadline. Sn0 could execute it too though if I die as long as he follows the instructions.
On March 02 2014 09:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Bussing Syl would lose you the game right there though. You were going to get cop checked the next night and you would've been dead. Who else could've been checked? You were the question mark that was left on Xalatos' mind.
I wasnt gonna get cop checked for sure. Where was Xata thinking Im scum before d1?
On March 02 2014 09:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I need to know of you and of JJD if you're going to be around at deadline. Sn0 could execute it too though if I die as long as he follows the instructions.
On March 02 2014 09:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Bussing Syl would lose you the game right there though. You were going to get cop checked the next night and you would've been dead. Who else could've been checked? You were the question mark that was left on Xalatos' mind.
I wasnt gonna get cop checked for sure. Where was Xata thinking Im scum before d1?
I mean on N1. JJD and I were looking very townie, Sylencia was the opposing cop claim and Sn0 was already checked. Who else would he check? You were an extremely likely check.
On March 02 2014 09:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I need to know of you and of JJD if you're going to be around at deadline. Sn0 could execute it too though if I die as long as he follows the instructions.
I probably wont be, its a bit early.
We can set a different time too but we need to get a time when both you and JJD will be online.
On March 02 2014 09:55 Oatsmaster wrote: JJD was not looking very townie, you kidding?
On February 27 2014 08:05 Xatalos wrote: Super final reads:
Town: JJD Artanis
Scum: BH/Sn0/rest
On February 28 2014 06:59 Xatalos wrote: JJD Pretty sure he's town. He's seemed very convinced of his own ideas and has pushed them in a way that's felt genuine. He also made some decent points about Sn0_Man.
Oatsmaster He's been pretty active and had a presence in the discussion, which I like. But some of his filter just doesn't make sense. For example, his (non-)reason to strongly townread BH and his attempt to "bait town" (why would only town attack a lynchbait?). Pretty null for now.
You said he wasn't looking very townie when he was one of Xatalos' strongest townreads. on N0 he was the strongest together with me. He was definitely looking very townie to about everyone at that point. Point is it was very likely that you were going to get checked on N1 given the position you were in so you couldn't bus Sylencia.
Your read clearly differed from the rest of the thread so you're either the only one that's right or you're scum. I'm sure you were observant enough to realize that everyone was reading him that way so your play makes sense from a scum perspective.
Anyway what's the first time you could be online that an american could possibly be online? Please parse it with a [.time] thing.
On March 02 2014 10:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Your read clearly differed from the rest of the thread so you're either the only one that's right or you're scum. I'm sure you were observant enough to realize that everyone was reading him that way so your play makes sense from a scum perspective.
Anyway what's the first time you could be online that an american could possibly be online? Please parse it with a [.time] thing.
By the way I'd actually like to request medic protection over sn0. My initial idea was that he's the only confirmed town so scum has to shoot him but that isn't true. I will never get lynched so I'm as good as confirmed town and if this lynch is wrong I'm more likely to figure it out than sn0. Plus I have a plan to make it happen. 3-1 or 2-1 is pretty much the same anyway, so protect plx.
At least my impression was that sn0 is just going to instavote oats, correct me if I'm wrong. If he dies it takes one less vote to lynch him so in that regard nothing changes.
On March 02 2014 14:14 Oatsmaster wrote: I wish you guys would think.
Are you serious? I've been trying to figure out the game the entire time. I've given a reasonable thought process for you being scum which you have not been able to reply to. Your "case" on JJD is two quotes with two oneliners attached to it that you haven't even asked JJD to reply to when he was here and we're the ones not thinking? You're barely even trying to get JJD lynched, it's like you've already given up.
On March 02 2014 15:42 Sn0_Man wrote: I will absolutely not be instavoting anybody
In that case I'm fine with you getting saved too. I would prefer to be alive myself though as I have a bit more trust in myself, no offense. Just got me plans.
On March 02 2014 14:14 Oatsmaster wrote: I wish you guys would think.
Are you serious? I've been trying to figure out the game the entire time. I've given a reasonable thought process for you being scum which you have not been able to reply to. Your "case" on JJD is two quotes with two oneliners attached to it that you haven't even asked JJD to reply to when he was here and we're the ones not thinking? You're barely even trying to get JJD lynched, it's like you've already given up.
On March 02 2014 15:42 Sn0_Man wrote: I will absolutely not be instavoting anybody
In that case I'm fine with you getting saved too. I would prefer to be alive myself though as I have a bit more trust in myself, no offense. Just got me plans.
No, I really cant make a convincing case on JJD other than inactivity and some funny shit around the Xata lynch. By think, I meant how would a reasonable scumplayer play this game? Would I tell Syl to claim? nope. Ill probably claim instead even. But when Syl claimed, clearly it means his scumbuddy cant claim for some reason right?
On March 02 2014 14:14 Oatsmaster wrote: I wish you guys would think.
Are you serious? I've been trying to figure out the game the entire time. I've given a reasonable thought process for you being scum which you have not been able to reply to. Your "case" on JJD is two quotes with two oneliners attached to it that you haven't even asked JJD to reply to when he was here and we're the ones not thinking? You're barely even trying to get JJD lynched, it's like you've already given up.
On March 02 2014 15:42 Sn0_Man wrote: I will absolutely not be instavoting anybody
In that case I'm fine with you getting saved too. I would prefer to be alive myself though as I have a bit more trust in myself, no offense. Just got me plans.
No, I really cant make a convincing case on JJD other than inactivity and some funny shit around the Xata lynch. By think, I meant how would a reasonable scumplayer play this game? Would I tell Syl to claim? nope. Ill probably claim instead even. But when Syl claimed, clearly it means his scumbuddy cant claim for some reason right?
Well unless you want to scumclaim or call me scum JJD has to be mafia to you so obviously he will have made mistakes. Find them and show them. Also I think you'd stand a better shot against JJD than you would against Xatalos in a cop battle so I don't find it unreasonable given the events that happened. It could also be that Sylencia yoloclaimed because you were asleep and thread sentiment was getting Xatalos too confirmed and you didn't have a choice but to go along with it. I don't find the fact that Sylencia claimed unreasonable.
I posted right after Syl. I wouldve talked about who should claim. JJD couldnt fight Xata because of the way he played n0. I couldve totally fought him.!!!
On February 27 2014 07:06 Sn0_Man wrote: If I was the medic, and the doc claimed (obviously post n0), I'd probably not protect the doc since scum literally can't shoot the doc.
K, he typod here. Sentence should read as:
"If I was the medic, and the COP claimed (obviously post n0), I'd probably not protect the COP since scum literally can't shoot the COP. "
To me this sounds like a scum mindset. A townie would say "I'd probably not protect the either of the claimed COPs" The way he words it makes it seem like he knows who the real cop is gonna be.
Its not actually a scumslip.
On February 28 2014 02:12 JarJarDrinks wrote: I also think this post is Sn0 getting pissed off that I was getting towncred my "noob mistake"
On February 28 2014 09:31 Artanis[Xp] wrote: This is a very interesting claim though. Very interesting. JJD why didn't you believe Xatalos' claim?
I lied cause I wanted there to be a counter. I figured scum might not counter if everyone was all in on Xat being town.
Xat is 100% the cop because if he was scum he'd have no way to know Sn0 wouldn't be the actual cop which would immediately out Xat as the fake (cause he gave him a green check).
That logic make sense to everyone?
Way too sure that Xata is cop here without even considering the possibilities for mafia fakeclaiming for Xata.
On March 02 2014 02:09 JarJarDrinks wrote: Oats is as close to confirmed scum as possible. If Oats is town that would make either Me or Art scum. If me or Art was scume we would just shoot the other person and win the game game the next day after Oats votes Xat
Here's the breakdown:
If I'm scum, I shoot Art.
- Art Dies - Syl and Xat vote each other - Sno votes for Syl mosy likely - Oats votes for Xat - I hammer Xat and we win
And you can switch me and Art for the same conclusion.
This is wrong. If he's scum, Xat checks me and finds that Im town, I dont instantly want to lynch him. Hahaha yeah I think this is the best. JJD fakes up a scenario that is totally incorrect.
On February 28 2014 09:31 Artanis[Xp] wrote: This is a very interesting claim though. Very interesting. JJD why didn't you believe Xatalos' claim?
I lied cause I wanted there to be a counter. I figured scum might not counter if everyone was all in on Xat being town.
Xat is 100% the cop because if he was scum he'd have no way to know Sn0 wouldn't be the actual cop which would immediately out Xat as the fake (cause he gave him a green check).
That logic make sense to everyone?
Way too sure that Xata is cop here without even considering the possibilities for mafia fakeclaiming for Xata.
My logic was completely sound. Once Syl shows up and confirms Sn0 as town, eliminating a Sn0/Xat scumteam, it's basically confirmed.
On February 28 2014 09:31 Artanis[Xp] wrote: This is a very interesting claim though. Very interesting. JJD why didn't you believe Xatalos' claim?
I lied cause I wanted there to be a counter. I figured scum might not counter if everyone was all in on Xat being town.
Xat is 100% the cop because if he was scum he'd have no way to know Sn0 wouldn't be the actual cop which would immediately out Xat as the fake (cause he gave him a green check).
That logic make sense to everyone?
Way too sure that Xata is cop here without even considering the possibilities for mafia fakeclaiming for Xata.
My logic was completely sound. Once Syl shows up and confirms Sn0 as town, eliminating a Sn0/Xat scumteam, it's basically confirmed.
What? Again, this isnt the first time you totally missed the point of what someone was saying.
The point im making is that Xat is town cop for many reasons but not that one. Hes not town because hes played like town? Hes not town because Syl has not played like town?
On March 03 2014 01:13 JarJarDrinks wrote: How am I missing the point?
You say I'm "Way too sure that Xata is cop"
I say "No way, he was practically confirmed"
thats not the point?
no, you said your logic was correct. Thats totally different things. I phrased it badly but its k. I shouldve said, "bad reason for Xata to be town therefore way too sure off THAT reason."
You can delay your F5ing for a bit because I've got dinner in a moment. Let's agree to 18:00 GMT (+00:00) for now. JJD, please confirm your presence when you can. Use http://time.is/ for the specific time.
Hey, look at time.is and claim your role exactly at 18:00 GMT (+00:00). If you both claim something differently it'll exonerate you both. Make it to the second so you can't cheat.
If one of you claimed doc and the other claimed VT, with my role and sn0's role we could figure out who the fakeclaimer was. I tried to make it blatantly obvious I wasn't the doc to increase the chances of someone trying to claim doc.
You're probably town because there's no reason for you to literally claim scum if you are as you'd know JJD is the only viable person that you can get lynched. Guess it's JJD after all.
And what's more, if I WAS the doc, xata wouldn't be dead now (A conclusion that Oats has clearly already drawn). So the information is available to virtually prove that I'm not the doc.
On March 03 2014 03:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Right. Can you give me your townie seal of approval before you die?
Oats just do me a favor and reread everything from a scum Art perspective first. I'm not really sure if you'll find anything but there has to be something since it's true.
Like I said, Art played a masterfull game. I actually don't mind losing a game like this but I'll do my best to try and convince sn0 tomorrow.
Ok so I poked through artanis' filter and didnt see anything that was too bad but from what I can remember of his meta, he lurks a ton as scum. Sn0 I think meta would be pretty useful for you to make up uour mind.
This is why JJD is scum. 1. His initial townread was based on very shifty sand. The reason why both BH and Xatalos considered him an early town read was because he created a plan in which he thought the Doc should claim. For some reason, he got a townread because the plan wouldn't hurt scum. Now tell me, how would a plan that is scum favoured probably not come from scum? The too dumb to be scum thing doesn't apply because it is actually a valid plan for scum. Sylencia also wasn't around at the time (His first post was on Page 10, long after this went to the background, so he probably didn't have time to discuss it). The reason for their initial townreads was non alignment-indicative at best.
2. Goes after the low-hanging fruit Sn0_man's entrance was shady at best, and JarJar is the first one to jump on him for honestly the wrong reasons. He goes after the way Sn0 phrases his post rather than its content. Framing townies for making scumslips is something scum love to do. He proceeds to tunnel Sn0 all the way until he gets cleared by a cop. Which leads into my next point.
3. The initial plan he had fell through when Xatalos claimed cop. My guess is that he wanted to claim a red check on Sn0 in case someone claimed cop that he could best. He shot BH, an able cop and probably the person with the highest prestige and hoped that the cop wouldn't be one of me or Xatalos. He had discredited me a bit already here:
On February 28 2014 07:17 Xatalos wrote: I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on Sn0_Man ASAP. As well as any other possible notable scum/townreads. JJD, you're here, what do you think about my deathpost and especially Sn0_Man (although you've already talked about him quite a bit )?
Yep Sn0man is my #1 scumread. Though I see no reason for us to lynch today.
I'm not as sure as you are on Art but I'd probably put you @ 99% town.
Sylencia is the person I'd vote on the cops checking since there's not much content there to gather a read from.
So that if I claimed cop, he could counterclaim and it'd make sense from his point of view. The only person he couldn't possibly counterclaim against was his 99% town read on Xatalos.
4. Plan B So now that Xatalos couldn't be counterclaimed by JJD, they had to go to Plan B, which was Sylencia. Sylencia was in a pretty poor state and JJD was bussing him a bit already by asking for a check on him. It makes sense to do so in this setup as you only need one mislynch to win. If a cop remains alive for too long however, there'll be too many confirmed townies which is an autoloss for town. So how do you get rid of the cop? Simple, you create enough doubt that he doesn't get medic protected. Sylencia looked awful enough to be sacrificed so he went for the power play. If he shot anyone that was medic protected or not already confirmed town, he'd lose, so it was a choice between sn0 or Xatalos. If he succeeds, he has an easy mislynch in Oats who would've otherwise been cleared, in which case he would have to go after me. Unfortunately for him, Oats being doc actually cleared him.
There's just one thing that should spring to mind. “If JJD is scum with Sylencia, why'd he try to discredit him all the time?” The answer to that is in this post.
On February 28 2014 09:53 Oatsmaster wrote: ez pz. Lol thanks syl for not breadcrumbing and shit.
It clearly shows a high conviction of Oats that Sylencia is town. How do you abuse this fact the most? Go after Sylencia with all you've got and Oats will look all the worse after Xatalos dies. It makes perfect sense.
5. He asks the doc to heal Sn0_Man. This is actually an incriminating thing on my behalf too as I did the same, but it's more surprising for JJD as he actually considered Xatalos the 100% town cop. He said it himself:
On February 28 2014 09:31 Artanis[Xp] wrote: This is a very interesting claim though. Very interesting. JJD why didn't you believe Xatalos' claim?
I lied cause I wanted there to be a counter. I figured scum might not counter if everyone was all in on Xat being town.
Xat is 100% the cop because if he was scum he'd have no way to know Sn0 wouldn't be the actual cop which would immediately out Xat as the fake (cause he gave him a green check).
That logic make sense to everyone?
If you think Xatalos is the 100% cop, why wouldn't you want the doctor to heal him? He was too certain on Xatalos being the cop and came out with it immediately, yet this is what he says:
On February 28 2014 23:11 JarJarDrinks wrote: vote no-lynch
I'm gonna go ahead and say that both cops check should oats tonight. (though everyone should chime in on this)
If we get dual red-checks, we obv lynch him If we get dual green-checks, we @ least know that he has no alt agenda and his reads are legit If we get conflicting reports then we @ least have more information
Then I think the Doc should heal Sn0man.
It's not the worst thing in the world if oats is town and he gets killed because if that's the case we're probably gonna get conflicting reports anyway if he survives.
Best thing that could happen is Art or me gets killed because we're the unknowns and we'd then have the cops data on oats as well as confirmed town in sn0. Plenty of info to help solve the game.
If Sn0 is the doc then he can be killed but I don't think scum would take a 33% shot @ getting lucky.
thoughts?
He never even talks about what happens if scum target Xatalos. Because he doesn't want to talk about that. He doesn't want it to happen.
6. His plan after the shot was cut and dry. He barely took time to think about it. About half an hour after and no input from anyone else he comes out with
On March 02 2014 02:09 JarJarDrinks wrote: Oats is as close to confirmed scum as possible. If Oats is town that would make either Me or Art scum. If me or Art was scume we would just shoot the other person and win the game game the next day after Oats votes Xat
Here's the breakdown:
If I'm scum, I shoot Art.
- Art Dies - Syl and Xat vote each other - Sno votes for Syl mosy likely - Oats votes for Xat - I hammer Xat and we win
And you can switch me and Art for the same conclusion.
Clearly indicating a plan to get Oats lynched. Oats was his one and only target despite me not being confirmed. This is because he didn't care about who was scum, he just wanted the easy lynch. This has been the thing JJD's entire filter revolves around, and this is another reason why he's scum.
TL;DR: -Early townreads on JJD were ill founded -Sylencia's claim came out of desparation because Xatalos was the one player he couldn't CC -Always went after the easiest targets -Too prepared for the Xatalos flip despite never having talked about a potential Xatalos flip
Lynch him.
This is why I am Town. 1. I have been called town by our dead cop many times who has been the best player in the game. Xatalos played a scumgame with me, namely Titanic II. I urge you to take a look at how different my filter was that game. I spent the entire game tunneling Xatalos and calling him scum, as he did the same to me. I started shit on him very early and never gave up. My game was entirely dissimilar from this one, and in 9 days I had about the same filter length as I did this game in 4 days.
On February 28 2014 06:59 Xatalos wrote: In case I happen to die an early death, here are my early reads to consider.
Artanis 99.99% town. If he's Mafia, I will salute his extreme efforts to radically change his style and basically scream town with his every action (compared to Titanic where he just lurked and bussed me... it's almost impossible to compare these two games).
JJD Pretty sure he's town. He's seemed very convinced of his own ideas and has pushed them in a way that's felt genuine. He also made some decent points about Sn0_Man.
Xatalos knows my scum meta and he knows I can't play like this when I roll scum. In fact, I encourage you to check out any of my recent scumgames for similarities, you will find none. It's all available to look at in my profile. If I rolled scum, I'd have rolled it for the 5th time in the last 7 games and I highly doubt I'd find the motivation to play the way I did.
2. I have pushed the game forward wherever necessary. Includes obvious stuff like
On February 27 2014 07:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Basically no one should vote until town collectively decided on a lynch.
Discussion
On February 27 2014 08:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm not sure if sharing scumreads is a good thing during the night. Would like other people's input on it before we continue. I think townreads are a bad idea to share though.
On February 27 2014 14:05 Oatsmaster wrote: I think that its far more advantagous to just play normally rather than be scared of a townie being killed because scum know who the good townies are and they are gonna die anyway regardless of how we feel.
I think this is awful. If they can't find blues they're going to shoot at the strongest townies and if no one actually shares their strongest townreads scum could have no idea who they are. I also don't like how you bring this up after we've already discussed why it's bad.
Also BH advocating "mass claims" as scum when this setup excludes the doc from saving anyone N0 is pretty pants on head. Oats #1 scum SEA
Noticing what Xatalos might be doing and going along with it (context: he claimed he had information he didn't want to share, I put a limelight on it to even more make scum think “this is too obvious, he has to be intentionally doing this”)
On February 28 2014 04:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote: If it's strictly not beneficial why'd you even bring it up? Or do you mean that it'll be beneficial to bring up later?
More plans where they were apt
On March 01 2014 01:05 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Hey guys. Got opinions but I'd like to keep them in front of me for WIFOM! Yay WIFOM. ##Vote No Lynch
The reasons for which I didn't want to share what I was thinking was to make scum not shoot me if they were in a poor position. This is also another reason why I suspected Oats; I was one of the only people that could change the situation. I actually expected a scum JJD to shoot me or sn0_man here as I was looking very town to just about everyone, and sn0_man was confirmed town, but it makes sense from a scum JJD point of view; he doesn't want Oats cleared because that's his easy mislynch, so he took a gamble.
On March 01 2014 04:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Man. Nights as a Vanilla Town sure are boring.
Read list I don't think I've ever bothered with this at deadlines as scum because I just can't be arsed. Too much work when I know I'm not going to flip. Feel free to check my other scum games, I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure. + Show Spoiler +
On March 02 2014 01:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Artanis' epic list of reads 1. Sn0_Man - 100% Town Hurr. 2. Xatalos - 85% Town Reason 1: WIFOM during the night Could be faked, but it seems like something a cop would think of and he was the first to think about it. I thought it was smart.
Reason 2: Claimed Green on Sn0 Sn0 was a potential mislynch, and in this setup mafia only needs one mislynch for a victory. He was the easiest person to push, yet Xata came out with a green claim. This could be an attempt to get cred, but it seems more likely that he's just town. Also a 25% chance of getting busted instantly if Sn0 CCs cop. One point to note though is that he did try to claim credit for it.
I suppose the most logical conclusion is that we're both town or both Mafia. It'd be pretty weird if I removed the most lucrative mislynch target as scum....
On February 28 2014 08:24 Xatalos wrote: I'll be going to sleep now and hopefully there will be another Cop claim by the time I wake up. I don't really see scum winning this anyways without a fakeclaim (and even then it'd be quite difficult).
Would scum post hopefully? They would know that another claim is going to happen.
Reason 4: He's actively tried to figure out the game at many points. He's explained himself a lot and everything he's said after the claim makes sense.
A few things bother me though. His play before the end of N0 had a few holes. It felt like he was following thread sentiment a lot back then. His reasoning followed after mine, most of the time, and his suspicions on BH were ill-founded, but given scum shot BH there's no real reason to suspect him for it. I'm quite good with town Xatalos.
3. JarJarDrinks - 80% Town Reasons: He has given a lot of stuff to the thread. He called Sn0 out for good reasons and formulated a plan for the doc. There are a few holes in his plan though, like with both players checking the same player; it seems like scum could simply shoot the player that they would check.
Another thing that has sparked my interest in hindsight is how his entire plan that he talked about revolved around the optimal play for if the cop died on N0. The cop didn't die on N0 and now JJD has only 2 pages of filter despite being quite active at the start of the game. It worries me. He's been in a great position, getting lots of cred and then proceeds to not use it for anything. Town has the motivation of wanting to aid town, so they should post. Scum want to not raise suspicion for why they're still alive, so if they're in a great position they'll probably try to alleviate some of the credit. It could also be demotivation if scum is in a poor situation, which would be the case if Sylencia is mafia and the counterclaim went poorly. Cop didn't get shot on N0 either, so it's a situation I see as real.
Problem with that is that JJD instantly said that Xatalos is 99% town. If he's scum with Sylencia, why would he do that? It could be an attempt to get into a better position in the endgame, but I'll have to give JJD townie points if Xatalos is indeed the town cop, and if Xatalos is the scum cop JJD shouldn't be demotivated as scum because they're in a great spot. In the end, everything JJD has said seems to be in town's favour but there's feels about him. I've got me feels.
4. Oatsmaster - 20% Town Oats and Sylencia are very strongly connected in that Oats has hard defended Sylencia quite a bit. This is what he's been doing for most of the day. Oats being scum with Sylencia is therefore at the forefront of everyone's mind, which means Oats' play would be bad if he were scum with Sylencia. Doesn't mean that it isn't the case though, and if they're both scum they're in a terrible position. The speed with which Oats believes Sylencia's claim is not something I see as alignment indicative. Oats has strong gut reads and doesn't let go of them. Something I believe Prom told me about reading Oats though is that he often sheeps his town reads as town which he doesn't when he's scum. Oats has not really done that this game. He's taken the opposition and ran with it.
Other strange things in his filter are how he ragged on Xatalos for not voting for Sylencia because he was confirmed scum to him. It should be obvious to everyone that Sylencia is confirmed scum to Xatalos and the other way around. Not voting doesn't mean anything in that regard, you're already making your voice explicit. He's also set a "trap" which he then sprung, a short while after he says there's no reason to hide what you think. It's not a direct contradiction but it shows two conflicting thought processes. Why couldn't people hide their own thought process as a trap? It doesn't really make sense. His reasoning on targets is poor and he's tunneling pretty hard. Calls Xata scum for having a more prepared claim when both scum and town cop should be prepared to claim. Also said that scum profit from the game going on longer despite town having two blue roles and scum having nothing to counter it other than claims.
He has been pressuring people though, and that puts him ahead of Sylencia.
5. Sylencia - 15% Town There is nothing town about Sylencia's filter other than his claim. He hasn't done anything in the game other than claim cop, and when he did he just followed thread sentiment. His cop claim was on someone who already got checked green so there's little risk there. One point though; he could've claimed green on someone else and then there wouldn't have been any confirmed townies. Problem with this is that he set himself up on D1 to check sn0, so he didn't leave much choice there. One thing to note on that thought process is that if he was scum, he would be more likely to leave himself open to check multiple targets if he were going to claim cop.
His recent rage is not really alignment indicative to me. He hasn't really been trying to prove that Xatalos is scum. For some reason Oats took that away from him. He looks quite bad.
Then later that day there's a bunch of fighting with Oats after Sylencia is confirmed scum, which leads into my next point.
3. If I am scum, what I did today made absolutely no sense. Town sentiment was completely in favour of lynching Oats. He was the low hanging fruit, the easy mislynch that everyone thought was scummy. JJD was happy to lynch him, and Sn0 was quite convinced already as well. I was not even considered for a lynch, yet I put myself in a position where I could conceivably get lynched. As scum I would simply keep quiet, ride on my practically confirmed town status and coast to victory on an Oats mislynch. Instead, I brought up a plan which clears one of the potential mislynches as confirmed town and if I were scum puts me in a position where one of them KNOWS I am scum. It makes absolutely no sense as it's a potential game changer. I was practically ready to vote Oats already, as were the other two until my plan cleared him. Instead I was creating plans to catch the last scum in case I was wrong, and so I did.
TL;DR -My meta corresponds to my town meta and not even close to my scum meta. I simply cannot play like this as scum. -Xatalos had a 99.99% town read on me and was very invested in the game -I have pushed forward the game wherever possible and wherever it was necessary -The plan I put into motion in the end makes absolutely no sense for me to do as scum.
I honestly don't feel like ending it right now, it feels like I owe town a proper read-through of the thread so Imma do that at some point today/tomorrow and go from there.
And either of us would be happy with you instavoting the other because we know the other player is 100% the opposite alignment, so you don't need to say that Sn0
Please wait untill tomorrow sn0 and I'll make my case. I don't really expect to change ur mind but I'll try. I think I have @ least a few good points that'll @ least give you some pause.
On March 03 2014 12:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm sorry, that was mean. Just in a gif posty mood. I blame Palmar for starting it in default suspicions.
It's ok. I appreciate you actually taking the time to make a case on me since you probably didn't need to. I get the feeling that you're secretly hoping I put up a decent case against you so you're @ least challenged. Nobody likes winning in a blowout.
On March 02 2014 02:09 JarJarDrinks wrote: Oats is as close to confirmed scum as possible. If Oats is town that would make either Me or Art scum. If me or Art was scume we would just shoot the other person and win the game game the next day after Oats votes Xat
Here's the breakdown:
If I'm scum, I shoot Art.
- Art Dies - Syl and Xat vote each other - Sno votes for Syl mosy likely - Oats votes for Xat - I hammer Xat and we win
And you can switch me and Art for the same conclusion.
Like if you look @ my posts, I only ever consider oats to be scum. Why would I do that when I know he could be the doc and become confirmed town.
But if you look @ Arts posts, he's always leaving his options open. Yeah he's leaning scum on oats. But he never really rules him out. He keeps telling him to make a case against me.
Like how could he give you instructions for the plan? He says right here that he needs scum to answer immediately:
On March 02 2014 03:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also there's a plan I have that I don't want to tell until everyone's here because I want everyone to instantly agree to it so scum won't have time to adjust to it.
On March 03 2014 05:05 Artanis[Xp] wrote: 1. His initial townread was based on very shifty sand. The reason why both BH and Xatalos considered him an early town read was because he created a plan in which he thought the Doc should claim. For some reason, he got a townread because the plan wouldn't hurt scum. Now tell me, how would a plan that is scum favoured probably not come from scum? The too dumb to be scum thing doesn't apply because it is actually a valid plan for scum. Sylencia also wasn't around at the time (His first post was on Page 10, long after this went to the background, so he probably didn't have time to discuss it). The reason for their initial townreads was non alignment-indicative at best.
I stand by the reasoning I gave and still think the plan wasn't scum favored. In fact even though everyone else disagreed w/ me, there was one person who actually endorsed my plan after I explained it:
On February 27 2014 07:38 JarJarDrinks wrote: Here's the other thing w/ the cop dying N0.
If we are about to lynch scum, there WILL be a doc claim. Then the real doc counters and we end up w/ the claim anyway. @ least if we force the claim early, we're making scum commit to their lie before the fact.
or, we mislynch and go into N1 with zero chance of survival because scum will just shoot the doctor -.-
But we will mislynch if there is no claim. So you're saying that you prefer to put all of our eggs in the docs basket and pray for a hero heal. Cause that's the only way we win if the cop dies night 0 and the doc doesn't claim D1.
We WILL mislynch if there is no doc claim? Wat. We can lynch just fine if there's no doc claim. The fact of the matter is, if the doc claims and we mislynch we 100% lose N1. You're the one putting all the eggs in one basket by not giving us a second shot at a lynch in case we screw up
Yes, if scum is about to be lynched, he WILL claim doctor. Do you disagree?
Yes I disagree because the D1 lynch will be between two 'cops', so the guy we're lynching has already claimed something else. No reason for doc to claim before D2.
This entire conversation is based on if the cop is shot N0.
Oh right. In that case doc should probably claim.
Oh look it was you. Can you explain why u just told Sn0 that this plan was scum favored if you agreed to it?
On March 03 2014 05:05 Artanis[Xp] wrote: 2. Goes after the low-hanging fruit Sn0_man's entrance was shady at best, and JarJar is the first one to jump on him for honestly the wrong reasons. He goes after the way Sn0 phrases his post rather than its content. Framing townies for making scumslips is something scum love to do. He proceeds to tunnel Sn0 all the way until he gets cleared by a cop.
But I'd know that he was likely gonna get cleared. Why jump on him before the nightphase was over?
On March 03 2014 05:05 Artanis[Xp] wrote: 3. The initial plan he had fell through when Xatalos claimed cop. My guess is that he wanted to claim a red check on Sn0 in case someone claimed cop that he could best. He shot BH, an able cop and probably the person with the highest prestige and hoped that the cop wouldn't be one of me or Xatalos.
This is my first post of the day and before Xat claimed. I'm asking for copclaims. It's obvious that I wasn't planning to claim myself or I just would have.
On February 28 2014 07:15 JarJarDrinks wrote: FWIW I think the best plan is for the cop to claim, we vote no-lynch, and then go from there.
Plus would I advocate no-lynch if I was planning to fake a red check?
On March 03 2014 05:05 Artanis[Xp] wrote: 4. Plan B So now that Xatalos couldn't be counterclaimed by JJD, they had to go to Plan B, which was Sylencia. Sylencia was in a pretty poor state and JJD was bussing him a bit already by asking for a check on him.
Again this was before Xat claimed. You just said that this was plan B. A plan that we had to execute after our original plan failed. Well why would I have been setting him up for a bus BEFORE Xat claimed?
JarJarDinks the Vanilla Townie has been flayed alive by the whole town. Which really wasn't very impressive and took quite a long time because, well have you ever tried flaying-alive with just 2 people? Shit takes long.
Artanis[Xp] the Goon posts a gif of him laughing nefariously even though he's not actually laughing IRL.
Sn0_Man evaluates the choices he's made in his life. Not for long though because Artanis stabs him with a rusty screwdriver right after, which doesn't kill him, but it does infect him with Tetanus and since the Doctor is dead, his days will be numbered eventually.
I don't think anyone was gonna catch me tbh, not to brag. I just played really well this game and it's the first time I ever did that as scum as I usually play awful at it.
At least let them continue discussion between each other, it gives you more content to work with. Did artanis even post anything really in LYLO after his pre-day3 post?
GG Artanis, you definitely deserved to win the game. I would have probably lynched JJD as well in the end, although maybe there was a chance I would have figured it out with more time.
A large part of my choice was also the fact that if I hammered Artanis and lost i'd feel actually awful, like I threw the game almost intentionally.
Hammering JJD and losing doesn't bother me too much tho. Other than the fact that I lost.
Oh well. I'd already accepted that I was gonna get flak endgame
Believe it or not I did reason out how Scum!Artanis played out the entire game, the motives for everything he did, etc. But that seemed significantly less likely than him just being town.
Yeah, I can't really blame you considering I gave Artanis a 99.99% townread
Btw this was the best part of ScumQT...
-Tossup between JJD (blue because massive focus on doc) and Xatalos (Looks to be fishing for a cop target) -Eventually I decide to try and change the shot during resolution phase because Xatalos said he knew something but didn't want to tell it yet and I don't think he'd do that as a blue.
It was lucky I did that since I have a feeling we would have suffered a crushing defeat if I was NK'd N0.
Also surprisingly much thought went into choosing to kill me the next night. It paid off though.
Fun fact: Oats healed Artanis (not that I blame him, I might have done the same)
On March 04 2014 02:36 Xatalos wrote: It was lucky I did that since I have a feeling we would have suffered a crushing defeat if I was NK'd N0.
The game actually takes a huge turn when cop dies n0. It actually gets really fun to me since it becomes all about actually scum hunting rather than playing the claim game.
Still sleep d1. d2 doc claims and you reduce to 2/4 to hit mafia even with a doc counter claim its still 1/2 between doc claims or 1/3 outside of the claims. Very fun way to play the game especially when people are new to the situation.
I don't think there's a fitting scum narrative for what I did with the plan in the end. That's because I didn't do it because it was the optimal play, but because it was the fun play. I was going to push that hard in case it proved to be necessary. Kinda surprised sn0 already hammered him tbh
On March 04 2014 02:36 Xatalos wrote: It was lucky I did that since I have a feeling we would have suffered a crushing defeat if I was NK'd N0.
The game actually takes a huge turn when cop dies n0. It actually gets really fun to me since it becomes all about actually scum hunting rather than playing the claim game.
Still sleep d1. d2 doc claims and you reduce to 2/4 to hit mafia even with a doc counter claim its still 1/2 between doc claims or 1/3 outside of the claims. Very fun way to play the game especially when people are new to the situation.
That's pretty hard for town IMO. You can't mislynch even once and if there are several scummy-looking players, you (the whole combined remaining town) basically have to guess correctly twice in a row whereas scum only need to get lucky and hammer a mislynch once.
Dunno, the chance of cop death is more or less offset by the chance of doc save right?
I still think doc save n0 should be a thing but w/e. I'm not suggesting the game was imbalanced or that we lost for any reason other than me failing. I just think that an n0 save kinda balances the chance of n0 doc kill.
I think it was an interesting setup and pretty balanced. Maybe a bit swingy though (one choice of NK can have a HUGE impact on the game). But that's not necessarily bad IMO.
It's hard not to be swingy with a 7-person setup. After all, if we had a setup that started in 2-1 LYLO we would also call that swingy but really you can't make 2-1 LYLO non-swingy
Well played Artanis! It was a fun read after i finally did it.
I think you guys wasted way much time in discussing optimal strategies. Just fucking scumhunt and lynch mafia D1 and D2, don't care who claims what because the nerfed medic who could not save on N0.
On March 04 2014 03:13 Sn0_Man wrote: Dunno, the chance of cop death is more or less offset by the chance of doc save right?
I still think doc save n0 should be a thing but w/e. I'm not suggesting the game was imbalanced or that we lost for any reason other than me failing. I just think that an n0 save kinda balances the chance of n0 doc kill.
Doc shouldn't be able to save unless there is also no talking on n0.
On March 04 2014 03:13 Sn0_Man wrote: Dunno, the chance of cop death is more or less offset by the chance of doc save right?
I still think doc save n0 should be a thing but w/e. I'm not suggesting the game was imbalanced or that we lost for any reason other than me failing. I just think that an n0 save kinda balances the chance of n0 doc kill.
Doc shouldn't be able to save unless there is also no talking on n0.
Doc was able to save n0 in the previous game I think and it was fine, even with talking. The issue is we missed out on a LOT of the fun stuff that can happen because we shot the cop n1 and the scum player who fakeclaimed cop then spent the rest of d1 shitting up the thread until he got lynched. not fun shenannies.
On March 04 2014 03:23 Sn0_Man wrote: PS Scum QT is very bare-bones, can I get the explanation behind why syl claimed to have green checked me?
I understand why syl claimed, just not why he claimed a green check on me.
Probably because if he claims a red check on you he already has one dude who has him as 100% scum, it's much harder to battle the real cop if the real cop already has 1 100% supporter.
On March 04 2014 03:07 Xatalos wrote: That's kind of funny, but also true, I guess...
"A surprising proportion of the time, the correct answer is to lynch the one who looks extremely pro-Town."
Fuck I hope I'm never alive as town on LYLO then
The basic underlying concept is that if someone looks really townie and they're not dead you should ask yourself why they're alive. Sometimes there's a good reason but sometimes it's because they're scum
On March 04 2014 03:57 gonzaw wrote: So, Syl was like obvs scum on D1. But wtf was Oats doing?
On March 04 2014 03:07 Xatalos wrote: That's kind of funny, but also true, I guess...
"A surprising proportion of the time, the correct answer is to lynch the one who looks extremely pro-Town."
Fuck I hope I'm never alive as town on LYLO then
The basic underlying concept is that if someone looks really townie and they're not dead you should ask yourself why they're alive. Sometimes there's a good reason but sometimes it's because they're scum
Yeah
Well, it is true that the "active 'pro-town' player actively trying to lynch the other one in LYLO" dude is more likely scum than the "lurky guy that is confused and can barely make a case on the other one" guy. The mafia has LYLO all planned the moment the previous Night phase started (if there are no hidden blues and shit of course). They have all Night X to plan who to kill at night, and plan who to pursue for the misslynch the next Day phase. The other dude, if was inactive and stuff, is more likely confused as fuck and doesn't know wtf is going on or what to do. Even if the other dude is confirmed scum to him, he'd be confused as to why this situation is happening, and wtf he can do to win the game.
Yeah, as you can see in this game, that "plan who to have with you at LYLO as scum" plan went so well the confirmed townie just hammered without thinking, and JJD like couldn't even make any case whatsoever.
But then again, there was Artanis' "plan" to have Oats and JJD claim at the same time or whatever to know who is the doc and who is the "lying scum". In this specific game, that was a good move, since it "forced" scum to kill Oats at night and tunnel JJD, while putting them in a good situation since...well....what townie would do that at night? Confirm 100% one player, and confirm the battle to be between you and the other dude?
On March 04 2014 03:23 Sn0_Man wrote: PS Scum QT is very bare-bones, can I get the explanation behind why syl claimed to have green checked me?
I understand why syl claimed, just not why he claimed a green check on me.
Probably because if he claims a red check on you he already has one dude who has him as 100% scum, it's much harder to battle the real cop if the real cop already has 1 100% supporter.
Would be my guess.
Yeah, we decided to try and make the claim as believable as possible. We were willing to make Sn0 100% confirmed just to have the cop be unconfirmed, which we weren't sure of if it would happen if he made a different claim.
On March 04 2014 03:23 Sn0_Man wrote: PS Scum QT is very bare-bones, can I get the explanation behind why syl claimed to have green checked me?
I understand why syl claimed, just not why he claimed a green check on me.
Probably because if he claims a red check on you he already has one dude who has him as 100% scum, it's much harder to battle the real cop if the real cop already has 1 100% supporter.
Would be my guess.
Yeah, we decided to try and make the claim as believable as possible. We were willing to make Sn0 100% confirmed just to have the cop be unconfirmed, which we weren't sure of if it would happen if he made a different claim.
That was a pretty ballsy plan, but it paid off well.
If I were mafia I'd just claim with a red check on some guy rather than a green check and try to get a lynch pushed through on either him or whoever claimed cop for real (even better if they're the same person and I claimed first. I'd be like "hah, how convenient that you claimed cop!")
On March 04 2014 04:51 Blazinghand wrote: If I were mafia I'd just claim with a red check on some guy rather than a green check and try to get a lynch pushed through on either him or whoever claimed cop for real (even better if they're the same person and I claimed first. I'd be like "hah, how convenient that you claimed cop!")
Fake redchecks never really get anything accomplished though, since you will always sleep d1 unless doc got a save. Once you sleep real cop either dies and the check means nothing OR the real cop checks the target you checked and it still ends up being a lynch between cops anyways.
Like, you fake red check your teammate: real cop checks him and gets mafia AND your teammate is forced to buss you. You fake redcheck the real cop: whoopdiedoo it doesn't mean anything until you lynch between each other and prove the cop anyways. You fake redcheck another townie: real cop checks him and gets the real alignment and then you lynch between each other anyways AND you can't kill him at night AND he knows your alignment.
1)If people think your check is bogus and you are lying, then they MUST think that the check is wrong, therefore that you are actually town, therefore they MUST think you are the real cop! 2)If people think your check is legit and you are telling the truth, well, then by association, they MUST think you are the real cop!
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